WEBVTT - TO GO OR NOT TO GO? (PART 1) 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:03.600 To go or not to go? That is the question 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:06.520 for millions of young people and their parents when it 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:09.879 comes to college. That was a no brainer for most 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:11.600 of us, right if you were fortunate enough, they have 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.520 the chance. You went to get that diploma, and we 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:16.759 were told it was essential to our success to a 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:20.160 happy life. But is it these days? A lot of 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.560 families are now having that conversation. College costs have just skyrocketed, 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:27.880 the job market for graduates is influx, and many very 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.680 successful people have created their own path without a college degree. 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.040 We have two Companion episodes on this topic with a 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.560 total of four guests who are intelligent, thoughtful young people 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:40.879 with very different points of view on this two of 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.600 them who chose college and are using the experience creatively 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.400 and successfully. That's an episode two here in part one, 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.560 the two who chose the non college path, Lady Lazari 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.960 and Eric Abrons. You know, when I was a playing 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.840 to schools, the conversation was always like, you know, where 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:00.720 do you want to go? Which school do you like 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.520 the environment? And like which has the best classes? And 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:05.440 like what's the best school you can what's the most 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:07.560 prestigious school you can get into? It was never a 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.280 discussion of Okay, if you go to this school that's 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:12.800 going to cost you fifty tho dollars a year versus 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.560 this school that costs fifteen thousand dollars a year, this 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:17.800 is what that really means. Like in the big picture, 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:19.920 it was all about just like going to the best 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:22.000 school you could get into, and like paying for it 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:25.120 was never really a part of the conversation. And um, 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.920 that was really mind blowing to me personally, because, um, 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.200 that's really obviously a very important decision to make for 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.080 the rest of your life, Like if you saddle yourself 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.039 with that much debt when you're eighteen, that has that 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.640 has an effect for really for the rest of your life. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.880 It was definitely surreal and honestly a little a little 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.760 bit scary and uncomfortable. But that's why I knew it 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.080 was the right decision, because I knew that I would 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.920 grow in that uncomfortable space if I accepted, if I 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:54.080 embraced what I was doing, and I did. I was 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.440 so excited about it. But there are definitely times where 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.520 I was like, I'm leaving social world behind them, leaving 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.480 my friends behind, I'm leaving maybe partying a lot behind 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.000 and all those things that people talk about life experiences. 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.160 You know, you hear that your years of college is 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.160 the best best years of your life. So why would 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:12.200 I go away? Why why would I turn down the 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:16.840 best years of my life? Asking questions like that or 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.320 what these two episodes are about. I've always been really 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.839 interested in this topic. Both my parents were college professors, 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.160 so conversations about the joys and the frustrations of higher 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.239 education we're always taking place in my household. I ended 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.799 up being a lot less educated than my parents, but 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.359 to the University of Colorado and Boulder, got an undergrand 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.280 degree in journalism. But I used it, to be honest 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:39.480 with you, as a trade school. I was there to 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:44.200 acquire very specific skills for my career and the extracurricular 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:48.120 media opportunities, part time jobs, making contacts. For those reasons, 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.360 college was essential. I got no regrets. I enjoyed it, 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.480 I was enriched by it. But I've spent a lot 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.720 of time in the last three decades on college campuses, 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.560 listening to students and professors and administrate, and I hear 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.960 a lot of them in a very different place to me. 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:08.320 A lot of college students are missing opportunities. They're not 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.320 tapping into their potential and all the possibilities of the 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:15.400 college experience. They seemed like spectators to their own education, 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:19.600 walking through waiting for what's next, wasting time, energy, and money, 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.760 probably their parents money. So conversations in these two episodes 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:28.360 will hopefully help you avoid going down that kind of path. 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:33.440 To our first guest, now, Laney Lazari from Pittsburgh. Laney 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.840 has a pretty extraordinary backstory and how she came to 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.320 her decision to bypass college. Since she was a baby, 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:45.400 she suffered from eczema and nothing that various dermatologists prescribed worked, 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.480 So as a third grader, she took things into her 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.480 own hands, started googling, searching for options with less chemicals, 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.720 and finally, after the grocery store, Laney ended up in 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.240 the family kitchen and created a sugar scrub. Laney says 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:03.320 a complete cleared up prexima. So she shared the product 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.520 with friends and then, as an eighth grader, launched her company, 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:12.000 Simple Sugars. Then about seventeen, to promote her products, she 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:13.920 left high school for about a month and a half 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:18.320 and took a road trip with her mom. Basically, what 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.440 we did was had did a twenty six city tour. 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:25.480 So we stopped in basically every major city between here 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:29.599 in l A and and back. UM, and in each place, 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.880 I was doing events with any of our customers. UM. 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.560 In those towns, I was doing pr I was doing 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.679 all kinds of social media. So it kind of became 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:39.840 this thing where like you could follow the trip. We 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.120 were like driving this really old car, so part of 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:43.920 it was like, you know, kind of waiting to see 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:45.840 if like the car broke down or like if we 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:48.920 made it. UM. And we had a thing where people 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.640 could like sponsor like a tank of gas for us. 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.120 So we had customers who would like sponsor a tank 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:55.880 of gas, and we would like every time we would 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:57.880 get to a gas station, we'd like film a little 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:01.320 shout out to them. Shark Tank notice is this nationwide 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.240 tour and calls you up and says, hey, lady at eighteen, 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.440 come in pitch your business for the Sharks and ask 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:12.120 for a substantial investment for a piece of the company. 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.800 You weren't nervous at all about that. Yes, and no, 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.480 there's your billionaires in front of you that can control 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.560 perhaps the future of the company. And it'saw national television, 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.200 by the way, and I've seen many people. Even though 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.600 those pitches are heavily edited, you know that people are 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:31.479 paying their pants when they're in front of that group. Purpose. Well, 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.480 the thing for me was two things. First of all, 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:36.719 you know, again, like I kind of said before, I 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.000 had already been in the business for so long that 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:43.560 I felt very prepared going into my Shark Tank pitch, because, um, 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.320 the thing about Shark Tank is, you know, there's a 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.440 very small portion that's rehearsed, which is like that first 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:52.840 like minute and a half when you first walk in 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.680 and they're like telling them the pitch on your business. 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.200 But once you start the question and answers, none of 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.200 that's prepared beforehand. So a side from just being ready 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:03.760 to like have a conversation with them and there's nothing 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.200 to really rehearse or like worry that you're going to 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.560 forget or anything like that, because you know, if you 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.200 really know everything there is to know about your business, um, 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.320 there's not really very much they can throw at you 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.159 that you don't know how to answer. Um. So and 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.160 and the thing for me was, you know, my company 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.760 was still just me at the time, so I was 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.000 the one handling all of the sales, handling all of 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.760 the financials um going over all of the numbers, so 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.359 I was so close to everything because I was the 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:35.960 only one in the business that it gave me a 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:37.919 lot of confidence because I was dealing with all of 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:39.600 that stuff in the day to day. It's not like 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.320 I had a whole team and I had to worry 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.080 about like, oh, did my accountant like teach me these numbers, 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.080 because I was the one doing the numbers, so um 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:48.880 that really helped a lot. And the other thing about 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.520 doing Shark Tank is it's such a whirlwind when you 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.160 go to film there, Like you're on this like big 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.200 like Sony lot in l A. And like the whole 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.000 schedule is really crazy, Like they don't tell you when 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.160 anything is happening, just kind of like waiting and then 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:02.880 they're like, okay, like you need to be ready to 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.480 go now. So you're kind of like running around all 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:07.479 over the place and they're in the meantime, they're filming 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.000 things like you entering and like reaction shots and like 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.440 stuff like that, so you're getting your set ready. So 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.880 there's so much going on that day that um, for me, 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.400 there wasn't really that much time to get nervous because 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:21.280 I was kind of like just like so excited to 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.440 be there and like enjoy that experience. So um, it 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:28.080 definitely helped, you know, have all of that happening, and 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:30.120 it kind of distracts you from the fact that you're 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.440 about to go in and make this really big pitch. Yeah. 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:35.680 I think it's a fascinating show for that reason because 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.720 those pitches are all very well rehearsed. All the people 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.880 who have created those companies live those products. But then 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.240 they have that surreal out of body experience that they're 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:47.400 standing in front of, you know, billionaires and multimillionaires and 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.200 trying to uh pitch when it really counts. So all 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.800 the sharks are impressed with you and your company. But 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.680 for three admit wasn't a fit Mark Cuban, who sun 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.320 an experience in Maxima. It was a good inn action. 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.240 You would go in in asking, I believe for a 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.120 hundred thousand dollars in exchange for ten percent of your company. 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:08.960 Is that right? Ended up getting that that amount of capital, 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.679 but you had to give a third of the company 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.080 to Mark Cuban in terms of his support. So you 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.360 walk out of the room like that's a huge w right. 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.080 I feel badly for the people to walk in their 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:23.160 pitch and then no nobody goes with them. Yeah, for sure, 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:26.640 And I mean that's always a possible outcome if people 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.800 don't know. There's a gap in time between when a 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.240 shark tank pitch and the episode is taped and when 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:37.360 it actually airs, and to preserve the drama of those moments, 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.000 that people aren't allowed to say what happens. So you 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.320 can't you come out of that experience. Mark Cuban's gonna 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.160 give you um the capital you need, but you can't 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:50.120 tell anybody. But you said that it it was an overnight explosion. Uh, 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.920 once that decision is made and you're gonna get that 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:54.400 money coming in all of a sudden, you have to 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:57.800 rapidly shift gears will also keeping a lid on things, right. Yeah, 0:08:57.800 --> 0:08:59.760 it's a really weird time. So it was like six 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:03.040 month of time where I wasn't allowed to tell anyone 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.200 aside from my mom, Like, none of my other family 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.400 members were allowed to know, none of my employees were 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.280 allowed to know. My mom was the only one, and 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.200 that was because she went out to tape with me. 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:14.720 Um who was allowed to know that we like had 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.000 partnered with Mark. So that was like a huge secret 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.040 to keep and you're not allowed to tell anyone until 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.640 after the episode airs because they wanted to be a surprise. Um. 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:24.680 And it gets even weirder when you then get this 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:26.839 investment money and you're kind of like, okay, now, for 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.160 like the first time, we have money to be able 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.600 to like do some things, but we also have to 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.240 make sure like no one figures out that we actually 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.880 got this money yet. So it's a very weird situation 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.520 to be in. So having a supportive school and having 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:43.199 supportive parents as you pursue these alternative choices is put 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:45.160 you away ahead of the game. Not not all young 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.280 entrepreneurs are lucky enough. But your school, your prep school, 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:52.240 the expectation has to be college. Right. You grind in 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.559 the s a t, you get good grades, You try 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:56.679 to get into the best possible college. I'm sure for 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.000 a lot of your classmates, Ivy League was the goal. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.280 And when it came time for you to talk about 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:06.080 your next chapter in life, which for most is college, 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.800 what was the what was the internal conversation and that 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.840 what were the conversations with with your family and others? Like, Yeah, 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.880 it was a really um weird experience trying to figure 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:18.680 out what to do with myself after high school basically 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.520 because you know, I had um worked really hard, um 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.000 to grow my business to the point that that we 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.120 were at during my senior year, and um, we were 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:31.160 gaining a lot of momentum, and I knew that it 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.440 was like not going to be the right time to 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.200 step away from the company. Like my gut told me 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.600 that it was absolutely not the right thing to do 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:42.080 to leave it at that point. UM. At the same time, 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.320 you know, I did go to like a college prep 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.280 school where, like you said, the goal was to get 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:49.839 into an Ivy League school, take as many A p 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.440 s as you can, get the highest score on your 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.880 SSA t s, and you know, go to the best 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:57.640 school you can get into. UM. So I was on 0:10:57.679 --> 0:10:59.640 a very different track than that. So it was kind 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.880 of year because on one hand, I'm very lucky that 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.119 my parents were very supportive of my decision to potentially 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.080 not go to school. UM. My mom had always told me, 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:10.600 like from the time that I was a kid that 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:12.520 she wanted me to take a gap here. So she 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.920 my mom is very non traditional. So I'm really lucky 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.600 that that I was in that situation and didn't also 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.200 have to fight like my parents on that um. But 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.080 at the same time, there's a lot of pressure coming 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:27.280 from teachers, friends, friends, parents who were kind of like what, 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.679 like what do you mean You're not gonna go to college? 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:33.280 And like even after um Shark Tank and after I 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.600 had decided not to go to school, I would like 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:37.959 run into random people, like in a coffee shop or 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.120 something like friends of a I mean parents of a friend, 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.679 and they'd be like, oh, are you still doing your sugars? 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:45.000 Like when are you going to go to school? And 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.240 like this but we're like four years out from that 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.360 and like this is so not the point right now, like, 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:51.559 and a lot of people like looked at it as 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:53.560 like people would tell my mom they were like, oh, 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:55.720 like it's great that your your daughter is doing this. 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:57.160 That's going to be a great way for her to 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:59.440 get into college. And my mom will always be like, 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.199 that's that's not the point of this either, Like this 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.480 is not like something we're doing to like try to 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.600 look good on a college applicatient. This is like so 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.559 much bigger than this. But um, I was in an 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:10.960 environment that was not very aside from my parents, I 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.280 was in an environment that was not really very receptive 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.000 to kind of those alternatives. So it was a weird 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.600 position to be in. UM. I ended up applying to 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:24.760 schools and committing at GW University UM mostly as a fallback. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:26.480 I was kind of like, I'm gonna definitely take a 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.480 gap year. I'm still gonna like commit to school, and 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.720 I'll see what happens in my year, my year of 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.000 working full time, and then kind of like make that 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.560 decision next year. And that was kind of how I 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.720 approached it. And then when it comes came time to 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:42.880 make the decision to not go, it was pretty much 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.600 a no brainer for me. UM. And uh, you know, 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.880 the decision was really easy at that point. You told 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.840 me before you didn't have a college fund stock with cash. 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.440 You did get a scholarship, but you would have had 0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:00.640 to take out substantial student loans and go way in 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.600 debt to go to George Washington and have a four 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:07.520 year education. So being a smart businesswoman already at your 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:11.920 stage there, you understood return on investment r o I 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.000 for short, but you said, no one when college was 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:18.920 discussed ever mentioned to you. Here's what it's gonna cost. 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.520 It's going to be expensive. Here's what you can expect 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:23.600 and it's I know, it's hard to know these things. 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:25.080 That depends on the school and the major and what 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.280 your job is. But that conversation was never had. But 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.520 the expensive college and going way into debt to get 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:36.520 that degree. Yeah, no, But we never had any conversations 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.160 about actually paying for school. And like, you know, I 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.520 did go to UM, a private school, so I was 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.880 definitely in an environment with a lot of people who 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.600 were privileged enough to have college funds and parents who 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:52.480 could pay for them to go to whatever school they 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.160 wanted to go to, but not everyone UM. And you know, 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.240 in my case, my college fund was like less than 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.440 two thousand I think my college fund had in it 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.400 or something like that, so not even enough to make 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.440 a debt intuition. And you know, when I was playing 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.360 to schools, the conversation was always like, you know, where 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.240 do you want to go? Which school do you like 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.040 the environment? And like which has the best classes, and 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:16.959 like what's the best school you can what's the most 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.080 prestigious school you can get into. It was never a 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.760 discussion of Okay, if you go to this school that's 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.280 going to cost you fifty thousand dollars a year versus 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.080 this school that cost fifteen thousand dollars a year. This 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.320 is what that really means. Like in the big picture, 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.400 it was all about just like going to the best 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.480 school you could get into, and like paying for it 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.640 was never really a part of the conversation. And um, 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:40.440 that was really mind blowing to me personally, because, um, 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.680 that's really obviously a very important decision to make for 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:45.600 the rest of your life. Like if you saddle yourself 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.560 with that much debt when you're eighteen, that has that 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.120 has an effect for really for the rest of your life. 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.640 And like in my case, um, I did get a 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.040 partial scholarship to GW, but I still would have been 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.520 looking at taking out like between forty and forty five 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.160 thousand dollars a year or in loans to to pay 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.480 for school. And um, when it ultimately came time for 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.760 me to make that decision to drip out my admission, 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.560 it was really hard for me to look at that 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.880 and not be like, Okay, I'm gonna about to invest 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.000 four years of my time and go into like two 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.520 thousand dollars almost worth of debt to go to school, 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.480 or I cannot go and continue staying and working on 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.400 my business and actually making money instead of putting myself 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.600 in debt. And it was really hard to like not 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.600 look at that and you know, realize what the return 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.080 on that investment was going to be and make the 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.520 decision that way because I had kind of like that 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.920 business mind already. But um, you know, I was just 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.640 always shocked that like that was never really discussed with people, 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.160 because I think that's a really important part of the conversation. 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.880 That's a lot of the times missing. Well, there are 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.920 tangible and intangible benefits to a college education. There's no 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.920 disputing that. Um. The tangible again, it depends on how 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.440 much you're spending on school, what's your major, is, what 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.160 kind of job you can get, and then it'll a 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.440 period of time, sometimes twenty thirty years perhaps to to 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.480 get back that initial return if you're going to an 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:09.840 expensive school. So again, those situations very case by case. 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.760 You clearly did not need a college education or a 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:17.520 college degree to run your business successfully, but you probably 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.400 would have needed it to get hired by somebody else. 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.760 So there's that system that's in place. It says you 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.200 are only as good as this piece of paper from 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.720 a school says you are, and that's that's still a reality, right. 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:31.280 I mean, you couldn't have gotten hired to be a 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.960 CEO or CFO or anything else at a company like 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.240 yours if you didn't have that piece of paper, Yeah 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.640 for sure. And you know that was always kind of 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:40.760 like part of the risk I was taking and deciding 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.400 not to go to school was you know, Um, there 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.320 was kind of always this question of like, you know, 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.080 if something happens in the business fails, like what do 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.280 I do then? Because then I was going to be 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.720 in a position where I didn't have a degree. So 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.080 stress about that I keep you up. I mean, you're 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.480 you're full charging, theors are going great for the business. 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.480 Behave things change fast in business? Yeah for sure. I 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.480 mean not anymore now I'm kind of like beyond that point. 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.000 But um, you know, in the in the first few 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.639 years after I made that, just that decision, that was 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.720 like a very scary thing, um, because anything can happen. Um. 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:15.879 And you know, now we we've been in business for 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.960 fifteen years. We have like a track record, so it's 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.440 much more comfortable now because it would be really hard 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.800 for something to happen like overnight that would um, you know, 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.359 dramatically impact business. But at the same time. Um, you know, 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.159 you never know, and like in the first in the 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:31.879 early years, it was kind of like, yeah, well we 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:33.960 could have two really good years and then that could 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.080 kind of be it. So that was definitely, you know, 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.480 a really scary thing, especially because you know, I was 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.800 only twenty at the time, so I had like a 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.000 whole life ahead of myself, and I was there was 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:45.919 always this question of like, well, what would I do 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.200 if the business was no longer an option, like without 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.919 having a degree. So you get Mark Cubans capital and 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.320 his guidance. Things are going really well, and then you 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:01.080 have an occasion to meet the folks from the Teal Fellowships. 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.560 Peter tell most people probably know a billionaire venture capitalist, 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.359 co founder a PayPal and other projects, and they have 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.679 a program for entrepreneurs to either drop out of school 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.080 your case, never go to school, and you get a 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.640 six figure grant and you're allowed to pursue your your 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.080 your vision. You've already got capital, you've already got a 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.680 business up and running. But what about that that fellowship 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.199 excite you other than the extra infusion of cash, and 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.439 I guess the chance to make connections and me folks. 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.280 Part of what was really great and valuable for me 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.600 about joining the Teal Fellowship was meeting a lot of 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.600 other people who were kind of, um in a similar 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.119 track to myself, because it was the first time I 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.119 had ever really gotten to experience that, Like I in 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.000 my whole life up until that point, I was always 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.520 like the only one that was doing things like this, 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:50.440 and um, it's really hard to get people young people 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.879 who were like in college to actually like understand and 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.360 appreciate what it's like to be like running a company. 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:58.520 Like it's just kind of like so different that people 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.639 uh don't don't really um get it, I guess for 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:05.040 lack of a better way to put that. And um, 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:06.960 that was always, you know, a difficult thing for me 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:11.040 because I was like, uh working doing this very real thing, 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:12.840 and all my friends were kind of off at college 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:14.480 and for a while it was kind of like, Okay, 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.840