1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 2: We welcome our Bloomberg television and radio audiences worldwide. I'm 3 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 2: Matt Miller alongside Danny Berger. Joining us now is Amtrak 4 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 2: President Roger Harris. As the company posts record twenty twenty five, 5 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: talk to us first off about the year that was 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: and our more people. Roger choosing the train because of 7 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: the reliability problem of planes. 8 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 3: Hi, Matt, good to be here today. Thank you. Yeah, 9 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 3: So let's talk about twenty twenty five. This is a 10 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 3: great time to be here at Amtrak. I'm certainly very 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 3: excited about it. We just had our record year in 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 3: terms of ridership. We carried thirty four and a half 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 3: million customers, and I think we did that by running 14 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 3: a good railroad fos things like on time, performance, cleanliness, 15 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 3: customer service that in turn generates really strong revenue record 16 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 3: ticket revenue of two point seven billion dollars. That allows 17 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 3: us to invest in new product like the new trains, 18 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 3: the new Assella trains that we launched in August of 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 3: this year. Also, we have a new train coming out 20 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 3: next year, the Aerrow trains that we'll be seen first 21 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 3: in the Pacific Northwest and then later in the Northeast Corridor. 22 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 3: We're also investing in new routes like the new Marti 23 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 3: Gross service between New Orleans and Mobile. Last year we 24 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 3: launched the Borealis service between the Twin Cities in Chicago. 25 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 3: And we're also doing a ton of capital investment in 26 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 3: infrastructure things like bridges, tunnels, new maintenance facilities. In fact, 27 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 3: we're spending half a billion dollars a month on new 28 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 3: capital investments. 29 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 4: Hey, Roger, if I can just jump in, because I 30 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 4: am someone who who rides the AM track all the 31 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 4: time that Northeast Corridor. I go from New York down 32 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 4: to my home of where I grew up in DC, 33 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 4: where my family is very frequently and I can say 34 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 4: without a doubt that the experience on the amtrack is 35 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 4: way better than flying. The issue is is that very 36 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 4: very frequently, riding on the AM track and not even 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 4: the SELA is much more expensive. The experience has gotten 38 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 4: more expensive with the introduction of dynamic pricing that I 39 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 4: myself over the past couple weekends have opted instead to 40 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 4: fly because it's been significantly cheaper. Where is the tipping 41 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 4: point goes, if your pick goes, That's a very important part. 42 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 4: Thank you, Matt, a very important part to say. But okay, 43 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 4: what is the tipping point for you where you see 44 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 4: you can no longer continue to raise prices because people 45 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 4: will opt for a cheaper option, be it driving themselves 46 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 4: or a plane. 47 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, this is a very good question, Danny. So, 48 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 3: I mean, part of the question, part of the dilemma 49 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 3: we have, is that there's so much interest in passenger 50 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 3: rail these days across the country. We're seeing ridership surges 51 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 3: in all areas, and it's supply and demand. Right. If 52 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 3: we lower the prices too much, then the plane the 53 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: trains fill up too soon and there isn't a seat 54 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 3: available for that last minute customer. But we see help 55 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,119 Speaker 3: on the way in terms of more capacity, because that's 56 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: really the answer when you have a ton of demand 57 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: like we do today. So the new Ascella trains which 58 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 3: we're rolling out have twenty seven percent more seats than 59 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 3: the old generation Ofssellas. We are focusing very hard on 60 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 3: rolling out those new Asselas. So we have five, we 61 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 3: have seven in service at the moment, and we're going 62 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 3: to have twenty four by the end of this coming year. 63 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 3: And then the new fleet that rolls in as well 64 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 3: will be additional capacity. So I think that's really the 65 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: right at the end of the tunnel. 66 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: I say, and I told you about this before, Roger. 67 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: I have a fantastic time on the Amtrak. I reach 68 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: rode down to Richmond, and it was an incredibly refreshing 69 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: and relaxing experience compared to the hustle and bustle of 70 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: the airport, with you know, my flights often getting canceled 71 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 2: when I get there. However, it was incredibly slow, like 72 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 2: I had all day, so it was no big deal. 73 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: But I feel like I could have at some points 74 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 2: walked faster. And I've lived a lot of my life 75 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 2: in Germany, where the trains do a solid two hundred 76 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 2: miles an hour. Why are our trains, Why is our 77 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: technology so much slower than that of the rest of 78 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: the developed world. Why don't we have high speed rail? 79 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 3: Yeah? So, you know, many of the trains we have 80 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 3: can go faster than the infrastructure allows. And it's really 81 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 3: about not only the rails, but also things like the 82 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 3: electrical systems, the wires overhead that supply the electricity for 83 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 3: the trains. 84 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 2: Right, But the Germans have figured this out, the French 85 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: have figured this out. The Spanish have figured this out. 86 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: Why can't Americans make fast trains? 87 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 3: Right? Well, we have to replace all that infrastructure in 88 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: order to make the trains go faster, because that infrastructure 89 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 3: I was telling you about is basically one hundred years old, 90 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 3: and trains didn't go that fast one hundred years ago. 91 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 3: So that's what we're working on. It takes a long 92 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 3: time to do that. Unfortunately, Well, during. 93 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 4: The government shutdown, Roger, I'm sure this doesn't help President Trump, 94 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 4: so that he had terminated sixteen billion dollars in federal 95 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 4: funding for a new tunnel on the Northeast Corridor. Would 96 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 4: you like to see more aid, more funding coming from 97 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 4: this Trump administration, Roger. 98 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 3: We've in general, we've seen the funding come through every 99 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 3: month the big projects that we're working on. So I 100 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 3: think that the challenge at hand is really to kind 101 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 3: of buckle down and get the projects done that we're 102 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 3: already working on. 103 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 2: So I wonder about especially around here, Roger. We care 104 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: so much about the New York area, and the Hudson 105 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 2: Tunnel project is going to be scrapped under the Trump administration, 106 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: to canceling funding for that, how does that affect the 107 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 2: Northeast corridor and its most congested area. 108 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 3: So we're still working through that, and I think that, 109 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 3: you know, work goes on every day while there's money available. 110 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 3: So I think the most important thing is to not 111 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,799 Speaker 3: have these projects get interrupted, because that's when things start 112 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 3: to cost a lot more money. On the east side 113 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 3: of Manhattan, we're working on rehabilitating East River Tunnels. We're 114 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 3: going to have the first one back in service next July. 115 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,799 Speaker 3: So those are the things that we're focusing on right now. 116 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 4: Roger. When it comes to leadership, obviously you are there 117 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 4: at the helm of Amtrak, but Stephen Gardner was asked 118 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 4: to resign as CEO just two months into the Trump administration. 119 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 4: Are there any plans to replace him? And how is 120 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 4: your relationship currently with the White House given some of 121 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 4: that back and forth to start his term. 122 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 3: What's the question I get frequently. You know, I come 123 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 3: to work every day knowing that there could be further changes, 124 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 3: But so far, I think we've been working very well 125 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 3: with the administration doing the things that we have in common. 126 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 3: We want to run a great railroad, we want to 127 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 3: get this infrastructure built. And if you've traveled west out 128 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 3: of Manhattan recently, you've seen the Portal North Bridge that's 129 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 3: grown up out of the marsh almost and we're going 130 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 3: to have the first trains operating on that span with 131 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 3: our partners New Jersey Transit shortly after the new year. 132 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 3: So there's real tangible evidence of this investment in infrastructure. 133 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 2: I got to ask about New Jersey Transit. It's the 134 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 2: bane of many people's existence, right, I think intelligently chose 135 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 2: Westchester as a place to live, and Metro North is 136 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 2: awesome and always working and very often on time, whereas 137 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: New Jersey Transit, like we write stories on a weekly 138 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: basis about how bad it is delays, you know, stoppage 139 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 2: and tunnels. Why is that such a problem compared to 140 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: riding up and down from Westchester. Why is crossing over 141 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 2: the river into New Jersey so much more painful for commuters? 142 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 3: Well, I think that I think one of the problems 143 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 3: is that going west, we only have two tubes under 144 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 3: the Hudson, whereas there's a lot more capacity coming into 145 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 3: Grand Central station for Metro North, and even from the 146 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 3: east there are four tunnels under the East River. But 147 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 3: I would say this that all railroads have a really 148 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 3: hard time every day facing just the reality of old 149 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 3: infrastructure and the reality of the operation, and I think 150 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 3: there's plenty of challenges to go around. 151 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: Got to invest in infrastructure, Got to invest in infrastructure. 152 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 4: Roger, thank you so much for joining us. That's Roger 153 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 4: Harris of Amtrak.