WEBVTT - An Update on our Old Pal Jeffrey Epstein 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.880 Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the podcast where I'm 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:09.240 Robert Evans and we talked about bad people and I 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:14.520 introduced the show poorly. Uh, this is uh an episode 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:20.680 about Jeffrey Epstein and my my guest today is Daniel O'Brien. Dan, 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:24.279 how you doing? Man? Hello, brailed to be talking to 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:29.400 you for a third episode about Jeffrey Epstein Jeffstein. Yeah, 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:32.680 that's what I've decided we should call him. Really really 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:35.159 thought we sort of uh closed the book on this 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.080 one the last time. Has there been any updates? Yeah? 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:40.760 You know, Dan, it's been a busy year since we 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.960 last talked. A lot has happened. Uh, you want an emmy, 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.640 I went to Syria and our friend Jeffrey Epstein had 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:53.120 some big Um had some big things happen as well. Yeah, 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:55.880 you have to. You have to offer a bunch of 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.600 retractions for your last episode because it turns out he 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.480 was exonerated on all counts. Right, is that the news? Oh? No, 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:07.280 Dan um slightly slightly different than that he either killed 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.560 himself or was murdered in prison cell um after being 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.959 arrested at an airport and charged with a whole a 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:20.440 whole bunch of crimes. Yikes. Yeah, not a great year 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:26.160 for Epstein. UM. I would imagine you have uh an 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:29.040 order in which you want to proceed with this episode, 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:30.720 and that me jumping in right now and ask you 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:34.800 questions is disrupting that in some way. UM. I know, 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.959 I feel like I don't care right off the top. 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:43.440 Do you have strong opinions on suicide versus murder? Um? 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.360 I have strong opinions that the case for murder isn't 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:48.720 nearly as strong as a lot of people think it is. 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:52.000 I think there's a lot of people misunderstanding in some 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:56.840 cases deliberately what has actually been revealed. UM. That said, 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.600 there's definitely some fishy as ship, and it's it's not 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.400 on reasonable to want an investigation into it. UM. I'm 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:07.520 leaning towards suicide though, UM, and I suspect most of 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:11.079 the listeners think he was murdered. Uh so the people 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.799 where are you on this? I haven't thought too much 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:17.800 about it, to be completely honest. That seems healthy. Yeah, 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:22.959 it's he's I'm sure a compelling case could be made 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.680 for either side. I don't. It doesn't quite matter to me, 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:33.560 I guess, which probably sounds callous. I don't think you 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:37.640 can be callous about a mass child rapist. Um. I 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.560 kind of think you can do whatever you want when 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.919 talking about Jeffrey Epstein as long as you're not talking 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.200 about how good an art collector he was or something 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.720 like that. I mean, if not not callous, because like 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.679 it's not I have no respect for Jeffrey Epstein. I don't. 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.720 I don't give a ship. But the fact that I 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:01.919 clearly don't care one way or the other means I'm 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:06.840 implicitly saying I don't care if someone can sneakily murder 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:08.640 someone and get away with it, and that's not a 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:14.119 good stance to have, ideal stance to have. Yeah, it's uh, 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.359 I don't know, like so, I I guess we should. 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.440 You're probably aware of so. A lot of the things 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:23.240 that have um recently come out. I think the most 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:25.919 recent big story about Epstein has actually been a couple 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.000 in the last week. The most recent is a Project 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:35.640 Veritas video from your Your Hold alumni James O'Keeffe. Did 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:37.920 you ever run into him at Rutgers by the way, No, 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:42.280 I did not. Okay, that's good. That's probably good for everybody. Um, 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:46.400 he seems insufferable. Uh so he put out a video 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:52.040 of ABC News anchor Amy Roebok, and in the video, 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:57.240 she claims that the network quashed an interview she conducted 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:02.160 with a source about Jeffrey Epstein's like child prostitution business 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:06.320 UM that involved like Prince Andrew and kind of suggested 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.680 that ABC had like pulled the story due to threats 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:11.960 from like Buckingham Palace and like a number of other 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:16.400 powerful people. And so this is like, this has been 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.760 pretty prominent on the internet. Uh, And like, I think 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:21.520 the way that most people have framed it as like, oh, 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.400 James O'Keeffe actually got a scoop is a clear example 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.880 of ABC News um killing a story to protect Jeffrey 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.719 Epstein the powerful people that he provided prostitutes for. And 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.160 I'm not going to say that's a hundred percent not 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.400 what's happening, but I really don't think that's what's happening. 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.360 So I should start by I'm gonna I'm actually gonna 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.400 quote an MPR article here that that kind of gives 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.560 the response from ABC. So we'll start with that. ABC 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.000 News executives say their journalists were simply not able to 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.120 corroborate the details of the reporting sufficiently for broadcast. We 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.240 would never run away from that, Chris Blasto, head of 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.559 investigations for ABC News, tells NPR the network has filed 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.599 approximately two dozen digital and broadcast stories on Epstein since 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.040 early two thousand fifteen, when ABC started talking to the accuser, 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:08.560 Virginia Roberts Jeffrey. So there's a good point there, which 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.440 is that if you're trying to say ABC was unwilling 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:15.359 to talk about Epstein, that's really hard to support because 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.760 they've actually done a lot of coverage of this case, 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.400 and the idea that like, Okay, well we we weren't 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:23.760 able to back into like I think it was to 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.160 them fifteen when this video was or sorry to this 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.080 nineteen is her talking about this, but I think she 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:31.080 was frustrated that like they hadn't gotten the story out 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:35.839 earlier and broken the story. But I like there's legal 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.440 concerns when you're reporting something like this and you're alleging 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.799 that like a prince is part of a child sex 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.279 ring and like a bunch of very prominent, very wealthy 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:48.320 people have been committing horrible crimes um and there is 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.000 like your legal department is going to look over something 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.279 like this in addition to your editorial department and be like, Okay, 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.120 either we have enough back up for this story to 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.840 move forward, or we don't think we can safely d 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:04.840 op this yet because we don't have enough like evidence 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.440 to support it, right. I mean, it sounds like another 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:11.680 case where idiots on the internet saw how professional adult 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.680 does a thing, kind of simplified and misunderstood it, and 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.040 then applied it to something else. So like we can see, 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:21.479 oh NBC actively covered up this running fire was reporting 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:26.640 on Harvey Weinstein, which they did, and then did the 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.760 idiots of the internet though, the adiots of the world, 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:30.599 the James O keeps and what not, the trolls and stuff. 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.000 They'll look at something that seems like it shares some 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.440 of the DNA because they're like, hey, big news network 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.719 something something something, scandal something something something, and they knew 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.880 part of it and they didn't tell us these things 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:48.159 are the same thing, which is not the case. Yeah, yeah, 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.000 and it's on the video. Robots says, I tried for 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:53.680 three years to get it out to no avail and 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:55.960 a these new revelations and I freaking had all of it. 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:57.760 I'm so piste right now, Like every day I get 0:06:57.800 --> 0:06:59.520 one more piste because I'm just like, oh my god, 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:01.479 what we had it was, what we had was unreal. 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:05.520 But when the video leaked, she made a public statement. UM. 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.920 As the Epstein story continue to unfold last summer, I 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:09.680 was caught in a private moment of frustration. I was 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.239 upset that an important interview I had conducted with Virginia 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.280 Roberts didn't air because we could not obtain sufficient corroborating 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.960 evidence to meet ABC's editorial standards about her allegations the 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.400 interview itself, While I was disappointed in nair didn't meet 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.200 our standards. In a years since, no one ever told 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.200 me you're the team to stop reporting on Jeffrey Epstein, 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.160 and we have continued to aggressively pursue this important story, 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.880 which they did again like the network launched like a 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:35.880 two hour documentary um in like like they've they've covered 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.320 this a lot. Um. It's one of those things, like 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.120 I I'm I'm I'm certainly open to the possibility that 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.320 with his connections and power, um Epstein had an in 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.080 at ABC that tried to quash the story at some point. 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.320 That's certainly not impossible, But I'm not seeing evidence of that. 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:56.160 Like I'm seeing evidence of it's hard to go after 0:07:56.320 --> 0:08:01.880 billionaires and princes uh and royalty um and politicians when 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.600 they commit crimes if you only have one source, because 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.360 like you can get your ass sued for that stuff, 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:13.000 Like it's there. Yeah, I think people are blowing this 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.240 out of proportion. I think I think you're right to 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.800 connect it to like what happened with Ronan Pharaoh UM, 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.200 because that is a case of where he came in 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.160 with this big story and they tried to quash it 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.880 for very sinister reasons. And I think O'Keefe was pretty 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:30.240 smart to launch this pretty fairly shortly after um, like 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.800 Ronan Pharaoh's book came out, because I do think those 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:36.640 two things have been connected in a lot of people's heads. Yeah. Yeah, alright, 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:40.920 let's talk about Epstein's suicide slash murder. Um. Yeah, that'll 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:42.720 be this will be fun talk. He's just sitting with 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:48.000 my buddy Dan talking about a murdered or suicide, multi 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.800 millionaire financier, prostituted child pimp. Oh. I yes, I should 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.240 try to get ahead of this because it sounds like 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.920 we're going to cover some pretty dark stuff. If people 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:03.400 are easily uh triggered by by talk of child molestation 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.720 and or suicide. I also, just knowing myself, I will 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.160 probably make suicide jokes. I don't think suicide is funny 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:13.880 or a laughing matter, and it should always be taken seriously. 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.480 But because of the way my brain is wired, yeah, 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:21.440 it just might happen. I'm just putting the warning out there. Yeah. 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.640 I I had to physically fight myself to stop from 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.000 just quoting the lines from the Mash theme song as 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.520 a response to you, which I didn't do. And I'm 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.960 proud of myself, but I might later. Um. Yeah. There's 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:36.960 a number of things that people find really fishy about 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.000 the Epstein suicide, probably like one of the chief things 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.240 is the fact that he was taken off of Suicide Watch, 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:45.400 which seems really damning, Like why would you take this 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.120 guy off of suicide Watch? Um, it seems like a 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.080 clear case of the kind of person you would be 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.160 worried would commit suicide. And in fact, a number of 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.760 like corrections at like like people who have like worked 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.240 in prisons and stuff, um like have come out and 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.160 said that, like this was a dumb call to remove 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:05.600 him from Suicide Watch. Cameron Lindsay, a former warden who 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.959 worked at three federal facilities told NBC. For them to 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:10.839 pull him off suicide watch a shocking for someone that 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.120 high profile, with these allegations and this many victims who 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:14.960 has had a suicide attempt in the last few weeks, 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:19.160 you can take absolutely no chances. And I think this 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:23.520 seems conspiratorial to people who don't really know how the 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.840 justice system worked. And I kind of think this is 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.960 just a situation of where Epstein was treated like a 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.480 normal prisoner. Um. He was not removed just out of 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.560 like laziness, Like he had a face to face meeting 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.839 with a doctor UM who determined that the suicide watch 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.400 was not warranted anymore and removed him from it. UM. 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.240 And you know, basically he convinced a doctor that he 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.680 wasn't a risk after his suicide attempt. And you can 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.680 say that, uh, that shouldn't have happened, or that um, 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:55.600 like it was a bad guy. It was certainly a 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.360 bad call. It was obviously a bad call. But this 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.000 sort of thing is incredibly common. We actually don't know 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:07.120 how many people die in of suicide in prisons right now. 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.480 We only have data up to two thousand fourteen that 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.839 we should get a better. Uh system doesn't it handle, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.680 doesn't it? Yeah? Um, we we we only have data 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.960 up to two fourteen, because in two thousand fourteen, suicide 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.560 in jails and prisons in America hit a fifteen year 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:28.240 high and became the leading cause of death in jails. Uh. 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.600 And after that the Department of Justice stopped providing us 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:35.160 with information about suicides in our jails for some reason, 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:37.920 which is that might be more of the conspiracy in 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:43.200 my head that they're hiding this this information. Um. Yeah, 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.480 suicide accounts for a third more yeah, roughly a third 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.440 of all deaths in in jails. Uh. And in thirty 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.720 percent of all deaths in state prisons. It actually jumped 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.520 thirty from two thousand two fourteen in state prisons. Oh sorry, 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.600 it's seven percent of deaths in prisons. It jumped thirty 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:00.760 percent over the course of two thoteen in fourteen. And 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.520 we don't know how high it is now obviously, um, 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:05.360 but it had a thirty percent leap over the course 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.920 of a year in two thousand, thirteen and fourteen, which 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.880 is um huge. Uh. The a P and the University 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.160 of Maryland's Capital News Service recently conducted an inner an 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:20.199 investigation where they found hundreds of lawsuits against local jails. Um, 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.600 talking about suicides, like against local jails because inmates had 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:28.280 committed suicide. Um. And that way, that's just in Maryland. Um. 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.120 You know, the Martial Project used public records laws to 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.480 find suicide data from the Bureau of Prisons, which show 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.520 arise since two thousand fifteen. But again they had to 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.360 use like Foyer requests and stuff to get that data. 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.200 Nobody's like publishing it normally. UM. Like it's a huge 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.440 systemic problem, and it might be like the single largest 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.120 problem with American prisons. I found a really good quote 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.000 from David Fathi, who was the director of the National 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.280 Prison Project at the a c l U. UM. In 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.480 most prisons and jails I've seen, and there are exceptions, 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.679 suicide prevention as a joke. We have seen people able 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.800 to attempt suicidal suppose the on constant suicide watch. We've 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.120 seen people taken off suicide watch because staff thought they 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.439 were okay, and then killed themselves that same day. We've 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.280 seen officers who were supposed to be watching someone on 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.200 suicide watch actually sleeping. This ship happens a lot, and 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.120 it can't really be overstated just how big of a 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:16.920 problem this is. I know that's just what you've been doing, 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.320 but just yeah, only because I've been researching is for 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:24.160 a future upcoming thing at work is that as mental 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.440 health treatment facilities closed down, more and more people in 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.920 need of mental health end up in jails. And I 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:31.920 know in a few cases the county jail is the 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:38.360 largest single provider of mental health services, which is not great. Yeah, 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.120 And I think one area people get when they when 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:44.640 they see this removal from suicide Watch for Epsney is 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.320 something sinister. Um is sinister in like a conspiratorial way. 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.600 I think what actually is happening here is that for 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.880 the first time in his life, this guy got treated 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:58.040 like everybody else um. And that's what happens to everybody else. 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.199 It happens to a shipload of people in prison and 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.600 jails they kill themselves. And you can look at it 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.160 as the deep State wanted him dead and so they 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.240 had him moved from suicide Watch and like, you know, 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.200 told him that it was either this or someone would 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.160 murder him and then he did it. Or you can 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:13.600 look at it like, oh, he did the thing that 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.560 liket of people in his situation do, or something like 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.520 you know, a large chunk of people like it's. Yeah. Now, 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.840 one thing that is legitimately sketchy is that both of 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.040 the cameras outside the jail cell where Epstein died were broken, 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.320 which is sketchy as hell. I'll give everybody who's on 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:34.960 the murder side that that ships uh super fishy. It 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.200 would be a hard Yeah, it's another one to work. Again, 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.920 I don't have all the information like that exactly immediately 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.960 at its face value, it sounds sketchy. Um, but I've 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.800 never done the research, you know, just how well maintained 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.760 security cameras are exactly, And again there's not It's not 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.240 like there's data on this because the Bureau of Prisons 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:59.160 doesn't give people data on fucking anything. So maybe something's there, 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.840 maybe not. I don't know. I'm gonna we're we're we 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:04.960 are now moving on to the part of the episode 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.960 where I have an actual little essay written. Um, because 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.600 because Dan did you went into a story at the 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.760 end of last month where a uh uh, which you 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:20.840 mean a forensic investigator who observed the Epstein autopsy said 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:25.080 that it was consistent with homicide. Yeah, yeah, yeah, did 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.600 you do you look into that at all? Of course? Not? Okay, 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.680 good good, good, good good good. Yeah. So that happened 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.680 last month, and a lot of people shared it on Twitter, 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.720 including myself, and we're like, oh, this is okay. I 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.200 guess maybe he was murdered. Like now we've got some 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.040 fucking hard evidence. And then a couple of my fans 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.120 are like, you should look into the guy who actually 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:49.720 declared it a homicide, the the specific investigator, and I did, 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.280 and uh, he's quite the dude. Dad, You're you're gonna 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.320 like this, You're you're gonna hate this actually, but I'm 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:02.120 gonna read this to you anyway. So National Reviews coverage 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.960 that their headline was forensic investigator Jeffrey Epstein's autopsy more 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:10.280 consistent with homicide. Fox News wrote Jeffrey Epstein's autopsy more 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:14.760 consistent with homicidal strangulation than suicide. Dr Michael Baden reveals 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.360 now even the New York Times his coverage seemed to 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:21.080 point towards a pretty damning revelation. They said, Epstein's autopsy 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:25.480 points to homicide pathologist hired by brother claims um Now, 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:29.280 as that hired by brother part might suggest this guy 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:35.200 is not a totally independent analyst. Um, Yeah, because the 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.560 Epstein family is very much taking the line that he 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.240 was murdered. So I looked into this guy, Dr Michael Baden, 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.040 and he spent the last week or so doing a 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.720 pretty brisk business and media appearances. He was on Fox 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.280 and Friends like right after this, uh, and he claimed 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.640 that Epstein's injuries, particularly the broken highoid bone in his neck, 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.760 are in his words, extremely unusual in suicidal hangings and 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:00.840 could occur much more commonly in homicidal strangulation. Okay that 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:02.920 I feel like the word could there is doing a 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.240 whole lot of work. Yeah, the word could is doing 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:09.359 a lot of lifting. Uh, and more commonly is also 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:14.399 also holding some water. Now, he told Fox and Friends, 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.879 which is where all great forensic investigators go to, uh 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.400 drop their research. I wasn't sure if you were aware 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.679 of that, but yeah, really popular. He told them he 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.320 hadn't seen injuries like this in a suicide in fifty 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.159 years of doing autopsies. And if you just look at 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.480 this guy's credentials. Dr Biden's credentials on paper, it does 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.960 seem like he knows his ship. His website notes that 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.320 he was the chairman of the Forensic Pathology Panel of 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.399 the U S Congress Select Committee on Assassinations. Uh. He 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.800 helped to reinvestigate the deaths of JFK and Martin Luther 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.840 King Jr. He was asked by the Russian government to example, 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.800 you get homicide on those two? Also, yeah, he sure 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:57.359 shared actually suicide on JFKO. Yeah, yeah, yeah it yeah, 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.159 yeah that I don't I don't have more of a 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.719 joke there, but I'm sure you can piece one together. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:05.920 He was asked by the Russian government to examine the 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.600 remains of Zari Nicholas the second and his family, which 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.040 I feel like we know how that one went down. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.440 And he's conducted more than twenty thousand autopsies and taught 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.560 homicide courses for police, judges, lawyers, and doctors in most 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.240 of the US and at least nine other countries. So 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.280 that's a pretty pretty good resume, I would say, uh, 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:30.480 pretty solid resume. More autopsies than I have carried out, certainly, Yeah, 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.840 but I've only carried out three or four. Um. Yeah. 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.199 Now that's the overview of Dr Baden's career that his 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.040 website presents, but it leaves a couple of things out. 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.480 So before we make any conclusions about this most recent 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.680 wrinkle in the Epstein case. I want us to take 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.600 a look at this guy's record. But before we do that, Dan, 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:53.119 you know what, it's time for a time for goods services. 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:57.760 Yet goods services products is time for an ad break. 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.919 So don't think of out Jeffrey Epstein hanging himself in 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:13.760 a cell and instead think about capitalism. We're back, So, man, 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.760 those products can't wait to fucking put him in my 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.240 mouth or whatever. You liked the products. I was a 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.120 fan of the services, um. But that's the great thing 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:28.040 about America, the freedom. Now, speaking of freedom, or not 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.000 speaking of freedom at all, let's talk about Dr Michael 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:36.120 Baiden's career. UM. In nine, while he was the chairman 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.680 of that Congressional Committee on Assassinations, he was also the 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.480 chief medical Examiner for New York City. Now that's a 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.080 really prestigious posting because New York is America's largest city. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:46.399 And I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.400 all of its citizens are very talented murderers. Yeah. And 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:52.640 it's also I don't know if you know this, but 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:57.240 it never sleeps, so it did not always murder happening. Yeah, 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.240 it's just it is a murder fa ctory um that's 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:05.639 in fact what they call it on the streets. I hear, yeah, 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.720 taking the taking a taking the A train into the 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.120 murder factory. I don't know if the A train goes 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:13.640 into New York. I don't know if there's an A train. 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:15.760 I don't know about the subway. Dan, Hey, it was 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:17.399 a good joke, and you were wise for making it. 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.680 Thank you, Thank you for your approval. Now Baden had 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.240 been promoted to that that very prestigious gig in August 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.119 of nineteen seventy eight, after more than ten years is 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.439 the Deputy Chief Medical Examiner. Mayor Ed Koch, who promoted him, 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:33.360 told the New York Daily News that he had known 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:35.760 Dr Baden since nineteen sixty six and found him to 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.840 be very capable and innovative. Now Mayor Cotch changed that 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.160 tune less than a year later, According to New York Magazine, 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:46.240 too many unforced errors added up, including a picked apart 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.120 trial testimony in the doctor X case leading the acquittal 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:52.399 of Mario Jesskolovich in a spate of poison murders at 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.800 Riverdale Hospital, a Housing Authority patrolman who's January nineteen seventy 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.399 nine murder went undetected for twelve hours, his body removed 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.760 from the scene before proper death. Investor Guigetion conflicting conclusions 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.000 related to the chokehold death of a Brooklyn businessman at 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:06.200 the hands of police, and off the cuff comments about 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:10.440 the possibly sexual interrupting death of Governor Nelson Rockefeller. So 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:13.919 he fox up a bunch of really big cases, and 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.320 more than anything, I think that got him fired. It's 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.600 the fact that he started a rumor about the death 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.000 of the former governor. Um Like, there's this rumor that 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:26.280 Nelson Rockefeller died fucking, which is a great way to 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:29.240 be rumored to have died. Um if you have to 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:32.080 be rumored to have died a certain way. But like 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:34.360 that the origin of that rumor is just dr bait. 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:36.959 And he was doing rounds at Lenox Hill Hospital and 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:42.400 was just like, you know, the governor died having an orgasm. 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.639 I can understand that sex is pretty cool, but is 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:47.520 that a is that a cool death rumor? I don't 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.720 think I'd like that. You don't think, how do you 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:54.160 want to be a rumor to have died? Uh? Not fucking? 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:58.560 I guess you know, like like like uh, because that 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:03.760 seems like it's gonna be traumatizing for the person I'm with, uh, 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:07.520 and just a real mess to clean up, you know. 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.840 And yeah, I don't want to leave this this this 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:14.680 plane as a burden to many folks. I mean, I 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.440 get there's the the the association of all he died 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:21.760 doing what he loved. But yeah, it would be much 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.679 cooler if they were like, yeah, he uh, he just 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:27.800