1 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. Death is a great equalizer, 2 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: and when you're faced with the possibility of it, it 3 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: compels us to reflect. I think you see that a 4 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: lot with the people that are faced, unfortunately with terminal illnesses. 5 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: But what if you don't have a terminal illness, but 6 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: yet you have a suspicion that you might die? And 7 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,919 Speaker 1: I don't mean of old age, that somebody in your 8 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: world has an end for you, somebody that you love, 9 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: that you trust, that you've created a family with as 10 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: their sights, I'm possibly killing you. Today we're going to 11 00:00:54,640 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: talk about a woman who, over a period of year 12 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: and through court proceedings, board testimony from the grave against 13 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: her husband. Today we're going to talk about the poisoning 14 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: homicide of Julie Jensen. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 15 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: is Bodybacks. Joining me today is Dave mac Dave is 16 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: a crime reporter with Crime Online. They always tell us 17 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,639 Speaker 1: when we go to seminars and these sorts of things 18 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: as death investigators, one of the base rules is that 19 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: if you have a homicide, look for some stranger in 20 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 1: a dark alley. You don't suspect somebody that you've never 21 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,559 Speaker 1: met or come across. They always tell you to look 22 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: at those that are in the inner circle. And the 23 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: case that we're talking about on bodybacks today, boy talk 24 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: about being in the inner circle. I'm talking about in 25 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: such an intimate way. You've got a case where you've 26 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: got a caregiver that brought about the death of his 27 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: wife for years. 28 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 2: I would tell folks that if anything violin never happened 29 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 2: to my wife, police's going to look at my library 30 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 2: of books and they'll see all the crime books that 31 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: I've got. They would go ahead and slap the bracelets 32 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 2: on and take me downtown. 33 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: That would be it. 34 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: In this particular case with Mark Jensen, police immediately, I 35 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: mean the investigators, they get on scene and you've got 36 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: a woman dead in her own home. Who are we 37 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 2: going to look at? There's the husband. We often hear 38 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: that term rush to judgment. Well, it's not a rush 39 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: to judgment. It's just the facts of the case are 40 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 2: laid out in front of you. In certain evidence has 41 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: kind of a timestamp on it. In this particular case, 42 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: we're talking decades. We're talking a quarter of a century 43 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: before justice can even be meted out. Mark Jensen met 44 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: Julie Griffin back and we're talking nineteen eighty one. Here, 45 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 2: Julia is working at a Sears department store. Mark was 46 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: a student. They were both students in college. Mark graduated, 47 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: Julie didn't. They moved to this place called Pleasant Grove. 48 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: Just sounds like a nice place to raise a family. 49 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 2: They did have two children. The children were eight and 50 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 2: three at the time of Julie's death. We're looking at 51 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 2: a relationship that was not perfect by any stretch of 52 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: the imagination, but there was something that Julie did that 53 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 2: Mark couldn't let go of, and that's what led to 54 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 2: what we're about to talk about. 55 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: Back to what you had said earlier, Dave, it's not 56 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: from an investigative standpoint. I'm not talking about the general 57 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: public here. That's neighbors and that sort of thing. For 58 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: us in the world of investigations, it is not a 59 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: rush to judgment. It is a need to assess. It's 60 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: a need to assess and consider all of the possibilities 61 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: that surround the case. Because when you have an individual 62 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: that dies in an intimate setting, and we're talking about 63 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: in one of the prosecutors in the case use the 64 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: term the marital bed and you can draw anything you 65 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: want to from that, But that term the marital bed, 66 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: it implies and I know that that's what the prosecutor 67 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,279 Speaker 1: was getting at. It implies a certain level of intimacy. 68 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: So when you're working a case and you think who 69 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: would have access to Julie Jensen within her domicile, within 70 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: her bedroom, on her bed, you don't have any signs 71 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: at the scene of forced entry or struggle. That's kind 72 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: of our benchmark, isn't it. You hear that in every 73 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: television show. We'd look for those sorts of things, busted 74 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: out windows, an overturned furniture. There's no evidence to that. 75 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: You have to have the means, you have to have access, 76 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: you have to have opportunity. I think in a case 77 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: like Julie's case, you have to be able to control. 78 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: You have to be able to control the situation. And 79 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: that goes to this other point that you made about 80 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: the relationship that they had. This marriage was marked by infidelity. 81 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: Juliet transgressed several years before and the husband just he 82 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: could not get past that, and of course he wound 83 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: up being unfaithful as well. And so you look at 84 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: that and you think about motivation who would want to 85 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: do this and how much. Sometimes the scars the assessment 86 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: that you're doing from a forensic standpoint, the trauma is 87 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: not necessarily all external that you're looking at, because people think, no, 88 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: when you have a case where somebody is very rageful, 89 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: in a case of bludgeoning, for instance, they're going to 90 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: just beat somebody to a bloody pulp with either their hands, 91 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: or they're going to beat them with some heavy object, 92 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: or perhaps they're going to get a knife. Intimate cases 93 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: that we've covered, certainly on body bags, where you think 94 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: about somebody as cut and stabbed multiple times, we talk 95 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: about things like overkill. That doesn't exist in this case, 96 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: but I would submit I think for these to consider this, 97 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: the way in which Julie died and met her end 98 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: is as equally horrific. And it's hard to kind of 99 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: express that to people that are not exposed to poisons, 100 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: because that's what we're going to talk about in other 101 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: associated factors. It's really hard to take the measure of 102 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: it when you begin to think what a languishing death 103 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 1: this was that Mark subjected her to. 104 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: Here's what we're really looking at. We both alluded to it. 105 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 2: I'm going to throw it out there. Julie Jensen had 106 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 2: a two day affair. Two days that was it, and 107 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: it was with a person that she had a very 108 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: low opinion of. Later on just she said not very 109 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: many kind things about him. She really regretted it. It 110 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 2: was just a two day lapse of judgment that she 111 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 2: apologized for, tried to make right, and it just Mark 112 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 2: Jensen wouldn't let it go. For the next several years. 113 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: He started plotting and planning what he was going to 114 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 2: do to get rid of her. 115 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: Jensen. 116 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 2: And when we think about getting on the internet and 117 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 2: looking for things, we know how police use that to 118 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: find out what we've been looking for, what we've been reading, 119 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: what are our habits. And I don't think of that 120 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: when I think of the late nineties, the mid and 121 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: late nine I don't at all. 122 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you mentioned that, because that was striking 123 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: to me. You know, that happened in the searches that 124 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: you're referring to. This is back in nineteen ninety eight. 125 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: I can only imagine that the people that were involved 126 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: in this case thought, Wow, this is something new fangled. 127 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: We're we're using a computer to kind of pry into 128 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: somebody's life and assess what they were doing. It was 129 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: new stuff back then, not like. 130 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: Today, and that's the thing, so he doing all these searches. 131 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: I guess he didn't even think for a moment that 132 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 2: this could be used against him later on, as it was. 133 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: But bottom line is, from the time the affair was discovered, 134 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: he plotted her demise and Mark Jensen apparently was not 135 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: that slow about it either, because Julie fairly quickly started 136 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 2: seeing what he was doing. She noticed changes in his habits, 137 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: noticed he was doing things different, so she started kind 138 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: of being a private eye. She started investigating him. She 139 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: started watching what he was doing. And it got to 140 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 2: the point where Mark's telling people that Julie's depressed and 141 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: is mentally not there. She's telling her best friends, neighbors 142 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: that she is not suicidal, to the point where she 143 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 2: writes a letter and it is to her neighbor if 144 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 2: anything happens to me, We hear about these movies and stuff, 145 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: but this happened in real life. If anything happens to me, 146 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 2: I didn't do it to myself. You gotta look at Mark, 147 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 2: my husband. When police were investigating, they're trying to figure out, hey, 148 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: how she died, and two what led up to it? 149 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: In the fall. She died December third, nineteen ninety eight. 150 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: But in the fall in September, he Mark Jensen gets 151 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 2: drunk at a a business conference. He was in financial business, 152 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: and he gets drunk with this guy ed Klug. They 153 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: start talking about their bad marriages, and Jensen goes further 154 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: and talks about ways to kill his wife that he 155 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 2: has found online that can't be discovered, that he could 156 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 2: poison her. He was very specific. Now they were both drunk, 157 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 2: but ed Klug was like, dude, divorce is an option, 158 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: and he Jensen wouldn't let go. He's not just thinking, 159 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: he's studying. And he decides ethanol GLI called andy freeze. 160 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 2: And this is before any freeze was changed. It used 161 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: to be kind of a sweet liquid that looked drinkable, 162 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: and so that was the method that Mark Jensen chose. 163 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 2: What would that do to somebody if they were given 164 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: any freeze over a period of time. 165 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: Well, this is kind of a slow role, if you will, 166 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: relative to what was going on in their relationship. And 167 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: you're right, it did have a sweetness to it back then. 168 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: And here's the thing they used to put out there 169 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: were these warnings with anafhrees, particularly when people would do 170 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: they're all maintenance at home, you know, the days of 171 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: the so called shade tree mechanic. Run down and have 172 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: somebody flush your radiator for you and then put in 173 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: new anafhrees and you do all changes and all that 174 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: sort of thing. And one of the things that would 175 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: happen many times is that people would discard anaphreeze or 176 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: leave it lying about. Well, it does have a sweetness. 177 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: And probably those animals within a neighborhood that we're most 178 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: attractive would be dogs. You know, they're driven by their noses, 179 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: and they come up to this and boy, they put 180 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: their tongue to it, and it's got a real sweetness 181 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: to it. They lap it up and take on a 182 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: big dose of it at one time. I mean, you know, 183 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: it's like eating cake to them. Probably it's just very satisfying. 184 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: And then the next thing, you know, you've got a dog. 185 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: If you're observing the dog, the dog appears. If the 186 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,239 Speaker 1: people can imagine this to be inebriated, you know, they're 187 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: kind of disoriented, they're stumbling, you know, their gait is unsteady, 188 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: these sorts of things, and it really impacts them very 189 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: acute sense when the dogs would take on this much. 190 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. The dogs would eventually die. And 191 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: many people, I think for a long time, we're thinking, 192 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: you know, how in the world didn't my dog die. 193 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: Was it some kind of disease that they succumb to. No, 194 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: it was actually poisoning. And there are a number of 195 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: cases out there where people have used or had used 196 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: antaphreeze in the past to poison local animals that were 197 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: walking through If you can imagine people did want dogs 198 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: in the yard, for instance, are people that were angry 199 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: at their neighbor, they would put out a bowl of 200 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: antifreeze mixed with water or juice or something like that, 201 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: and they would give it to the dog, and the 202 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: dog would die. They would succumb to it. But in 203 00:11:54,520 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: Julie Jensen's case, you've gotten Mark who is slowly poisoning 204 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: her over period of time, where he's giving her bits 205 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: of antifreeze that he's introducing actually into glasses of orange juice. 206 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: So it would have been essentially undetectable to the palette 207 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: that sweetness that's associated with orange shoes. And you're taking 208 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: this on and it will over a period of time, 209 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: the ethlene glycol which is the primary ingredient in anti freeze, 210 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: would begin to build up. It attacks multiple areas within 211 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: your system. It's devastating to the kidneys in particular and 212 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: the liver. You'll have individuals that will go into renal 213 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: failure as a result of it. After they have been 214 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: given US for a protracted period of time, they just 215 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: become very toxic. They're always in a stupor if they 216 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: have it on board and they're being kind of I 217 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: don't want to use term microdose because that implies that 218 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: it's a very, very minuscule amount, because it's not necessarily 219 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: to the point where it's just a drop. It takes 220 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: more than simply a drop in order to accomplish this. 221 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: But as they're being dosed daily by a caregiver in 222 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: this case like Mark, they become progressively sicker. And isn't 223 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: that interesting because this goes to the mindset of a poisoner. 224 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 1: Poisoners traditionally have been portrayed as individuals that are stealthy. 225 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,719 Speaker 1: They're quiet, many times, kind of reserved. They like to 226 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: be in control of things, and that goes to the 227 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: heart of being able to have access, right, How could 228 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: you consistently have access to somebody that you wanted to 229 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: poison them? Now? Yeah, I mean you could give somebody 230 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: a big door dose of some type of horrible substance 231 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: like arsenic perhaps, and they would keel over. But if 232 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: you didn't want somebody to suspect that it was you, 233 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: and you have access to them daily, you're giving them 234 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: this while pretending to care for them. Because as she's 235 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: getting the substance, she's getting sicker and sicker and sicker, 236 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: And that actually opens up the door for him to 237 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: become a sympathetic person. He's a good husband. He's standing there, 238 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: he's next to her bedside, he's taking care of her. 239 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: She's feeling bad, and all the while he's given her antafreeze. 240 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: You think of somebody that can get close enough in 241 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,239 Speaker 1: order to apply some kind of toxin to an individual 242 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: and set it up in such a way that you 243 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: can guarantee that they're going to ingest it, that it 244 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: will be introduced into their body. But you know, poisoning 245 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: requires patience, and I think that perhaps Jensen may have 246 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: run out of patients in this case. He just couldn't 247 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: wait for his wife to. 248 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,239 Speaker 2: Die, Joe, that is probably one of the sickest, saddest 249 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 2: things to think about with somebody that is the mother 250 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 2: of your children at this point, somebody you have known 251 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: for seventeen years, you've built a life together, and you 252 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 2: have come to this point in December of nineteen ninety 253 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 2: eight because of a two day affair that took place 254 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 2: seven years before. You've plotted, You've planned, you've researched to 255 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: find out the best, as you mentioned, stealthy way of 256 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 2: killing your spouse and getting away with it. The problem 257 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: is what Mark Jensen didn't realize. He wasn't the smartest 258 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: person in the room. It was probably his wife. Julie 259 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 2: actually figured out something was going on, and she started 260 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: talking about to friends. Just like he drunkenly exposed himself 261 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: to an acquaintance during a conference. Julie too, had outed 262 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 2: him to neighbors, saying she suspected something was afoot, keep 263 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: an eye on him if anything happens to me, and 264 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 2: she wrote a letter, if anything happens to me, it's 265 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: look at Mark, and when you look at she died. 266 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 2: After the anti freeze, Mark got tired of waiting, so 267 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 2: he adds ambient She's now in the marital bed, she 268 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: is not dead. Mark decides he's got to get this done. 269 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: He has got to put her out of her his 270 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: misery actually, and so he suffocates her, which I can't. 271 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 2: You know, oftentimes you'll talk about a knife is such 272 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 2: a personal thing to use a personal weapon. How about 273 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 2: your bare hands? What kind of person can actually suffocate, kill, 274 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 2: strangle the life out of somebody that they've built a 275 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: life with. 276 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: It's a tough thing to assess looking back on it, 277 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: but that came up. The forensic pathologist did did a 278 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: fantastic job because they had a lot of speculative information 279 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: to begin with. Because you know, when you look at 280 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: let me break it down this way. When you're doing 281 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: a toxicology exam relative to the death of someone, we 282 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 1: use a standard panel toxicologically, and we draw blood, We 283 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: draw urine if there's urine available, If it's in the bladder, 284 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: we take vitreous fluid, which is from the eye. Many 285 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: people don't know that, and sometimes we'll take bile if 286 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: the gallbladder still exists, if it's still in place, and 287 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: you'll run what's referred to as a standard panel, and 288 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: you're looking for stuff that is common that you think 289 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: might have a contributory factor to this person's death. You 290 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: begin to think about things like opiates. Do you think 291 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: about morphine, cocaine, metabolite, benzodiazepine. Oh, you even look for solicylates, aspirin, THC, 292 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 1: a lot of these things that are kind of part 293 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: and parcel of the world that we live in and 294 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: things that people might have access to. You're not going 295 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: to go in there looking for ethlene glycol it's just 296 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it's not detectable. It's just not 297 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: something you're going to do on the first pass. And 298 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: so you have to have other answers. And when they 299 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: began to take a look at her body, and I'm 300 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: talking about from an external manifestation, not what was going 301 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: on internally, she had some kind of what we refer 302 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: to as post mortem artifacts on kind of the right antier, 303 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: which is the front aspect of her chest, her arm, 304 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: her face, and it was non distinctive really, But the 305 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: conclusion that they came to was she had in fact 306 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: been smothered. And it's often been stated that smothering is 307 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: one of the most difficult traumatically related causes of death. 308 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: To kind of herman. Many times we'll look at with 309 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: the standard smothering and smothering. When I'm referring to this, 310 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm talking about where you have a surface that is 311 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: either applied to the face or the face is pressed 312 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: down into and the airway is essentially accluded. At that 313 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: point in time, you can't breathe through your nose, in 314 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: your mouth. There's not a lot you can look for. 315 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: You don't have the same pressures associated with that where 316 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: you're always going to get the little particular hemorrhages in 317 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: the eye. But one of the things we'll look for 318 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: is to say, for instance, at the frenula are intact. 319 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: Those are those little connective bits of tissue in the 320 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: upper lip and the lower lip. You can kind of 321 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: feel that with your tongue, and sometimes you'll get little 322 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: lacerations in there. We see this with hands smothering with 323 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: small children. They're fighting against you know, that primal instinct. 324 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: But in Julie's case, we had mentioned the ana freeze 325 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: that she had on board, but you know she also 326 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: had ambient, which is a sleep aid which is going 327 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: to make you groggy, and in addition to that, she 328 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: had also been prescribed Paxel at some point in time, 329 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: which is an antidepressant, anti anxiety medication. People that have 330 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: OCD perhaps will be given a paxel. So you've got 331 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: these kind of substances in her system that are kind 332 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: of depressing her system, if you will. From a respiratory standpoint, 333 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: the antifreeze has the effect. It's an alcohol, so it 334 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: has an effect that kind of euphoric effects, sleepiness, drowsiness, 335 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: all those sorts of things that impact us as well. 336 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: But it just wasn't getting the job done. So what 337 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: the friends of Cathologists determine is that more than likely 338 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: Mark Jensen actually did something called burking b u r 339 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: ki ng. It's an old term, and let me kind 340 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: of give you the history of it, because this is 341 00:20:53,640 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: quite amazing. Burking used to occur many years ago when 342 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: people were attempting to kill individuals in order to turn 343 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: their corpses over to anatomist and just let that sink 344 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: in just for a second, to turn them over to 345 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: anatomist who would dissect the bodies. In the context of 346 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: medical schools, they wanted healthy cadavers that were free of trauma. 347 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: Back in years and years ago, you didn't want somebody 348 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: had been run over by carriage or shot because you 349 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: couldn't appreciate all of the anatomical points of reference that 350 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: sort of thing, because they've been disrupted. But if you 351 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: burk somebody and it actually comes from a guy's name, 352 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: you sit on their back, or you could sit on 353 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: their chest and literally sit on them. And that's what 354 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: they think that Jensen actually did. He sat on the 355 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: right aspect of her what would be called by physicians 356 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: her posterior right chest, which essentially is the right side 357 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: of her back, and pressed her face into that pillow. 358 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: As her breathing became progressively more and more labored, she said, come. 359 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: She su to come because she couldn't breathe anymore. And 360 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: this turns out to be a smothering. 361 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 2: Beyond the fact that you're bringing up terms such as 362 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: burking and thing that will now haunt my nightmares. I 363 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 2: have to think, Joe, that Mark Jensen had such a 364 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 2: powerful urge to wreak havoc on his wife, the plotting, 365 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 2: the planning, and when everything came to an end, he 366 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 2: didn't she wasn't dead, and he was left with this. 367 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: So I'm betting that he had to look up a 368 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 2: way to suffocate her without leaving a mark, because when 369 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: I think of strangling, I think of the little piece 370 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 2: in the throat, the little bone that that one gets 371 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 2: cracked into strangling, and then you've got the blood in 372 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 2: the eyes, those telltale signs of somebody who's been strangled. 373 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: So if you do this as you called it, burking 374 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 2: does the victim and then still have those types of marks. 375 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: There's another term that could be applied here, compression asphyxia. Anatomically, 376 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: all these areas would be compromised. They're not going to 377 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: be working at their full capacity. So let's just just 378 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: think about this for a second. She's and I've seen 379 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: the crime scene photos of her. There, she's lying on 380 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: the right aspect of the bed. We all have a 381 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 1: particular side, you know, that we choose to sleep on. 382 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: There's a night stand there. She's lying on the right 383 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: side of the bed, her head turned to the right 384 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: in this image, and she's got her The bed covers 385 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: are pulled up, just just covering her waist. Her body 386 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: was positioned in such a way that he could have 387 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: sat down on her, because she's really near the edge 388 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: of the bed. He could have sat down on her 389 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: as if you were sitting on a chair and his 390 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: full weight is going to be compressing down on her chest, 391 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: what do we require in order to breathe? Well, one 392 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: of the ways we assess many times if someone is 393 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: still live, and you'll see physicians make note of this, 394 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,880 Speaker 1: they'll say, the chest is still rising and falling. Well, 395 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 1: that gives us an idea that they're in taking air 396 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: and they're expelling their at that point in time. And 397 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 1: as he's sitting there, he has the ability to take 398 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: his left hand, if you'll imagine just taking your left 399 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: hand as his buttocks is placing pressure on her, he's 400 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: taking his left hand and pressing her head down into 401 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: the pillar and the mattress so that her nostrils are 402 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: blocked and her mouth is blocked as well. So not 403 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 1: only can her chest not rise and fall, but her 404 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: airway is blocked as well. So it's almost a guarantee 405 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: when you've got somebody whose system is depressed like hers 406 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: was by these agents that she had on board, that 407 00:24:46,680 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: she's going to die, and in fact she did. If 408 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: you were faced with your own mortality, realizing that there 409 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: is a probability that you're going to die, perhaps at 410 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: someone's hand other than her own. When faced with the 411 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: possibility that you might die, what would you do, particularly 412 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: if you suspected that someone had you in their sights. 413 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: In Julie Jensen's case, she penned a letter. She penned 414 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: a letter and gave it to her neighbor Davy. We 415 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: don't come across cases like this very often. 416 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 2: No, In this particular case, that letter became a big 417 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: issue in court because she wrote it and it was 418 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 2: considered and I guess, I mean, Joe, you've dealt with this. 419 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 2: I'm sure with forensics and trials and things like that, 420 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 2: that when somebody writes this down, okay, of what they suspect, 421 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 2: and they're trying to be clear, they're not out and 422 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 2: out accusing anybody of anything, just merely saying if anything 423 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: happens to me, I am not suicidal and I would 424 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 2: not take my own life. You need to look at Mark, 425 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: my husband. And that's exactly what she did. 426 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,239 Speaker 1: No. There's a concept in the law that's referred to 427 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: as a dying declaration, and most of the time that 428 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: applies to let me give you for instance, let's say 429 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: an individual has been traumatized in some way to the 430 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: point where they suspect that they are dying, and let's 431 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: just I don't know. They're riding in the back of 432 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: an ambulance and they make this spontaneous comment that so 433 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: and so did this to me, and then they wind 434 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: up succumbing to that injury. Well, that's weighted in a 435 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: particular way in the eyes of the court. Now here's 436 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: the caveat. If you don't die, that statement doesn't have 437 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: the same value, all right. So that's kind of an 438 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: interesting little side note. It's called a dying declaration. And 439 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,719 Speaker 1: the old old legal way of looking at this, and 440 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: this is kind of kind of an interesting statement is 441 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: that probably gonna get the phraseology wrong, but it's something 442 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 1: paraphrase like this, an individual does not want to go 443 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: to God with a lie in their mouth. That sounds 444 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: very early English common law, doesn't it. So it's the 445 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: litmus test. You're not going to lie right before you die, 446 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: because you're going to face judgment for that. So if 447 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: you're going to put a truth meter to it, that 448 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: statement suddenly becomes has more validity to it than if 449 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: you're just in healthy condition you make this statement, all right. 450 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: So when she wrote that letter, it had some weight 451 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: to it. It certainly had some weight. And then we 452 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: were talking, David, you had mentioned that this happened in 453 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, and you think this guy wasn't He 454 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: wasn't hooked up on charges for her death until what 455 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: was it two thousand and two? Is that what that was? 456 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: It was two thousand and two, and then he didn't 457 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: stand trial in the first trial until two thousand and eight, 458 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: and that letter was actually admitted his evidence at that 459 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: point in time. 460 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 2: It was a big part of the investigation. Joke the 461 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 2: detective on seeing the day they came to the house, 462 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 2: Julie Jensen had not been quiet in the months leading 463 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 2: up to her death. She actually had left messages for 464 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 2: the police saying she was afraid her husband was trying 465 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 2: to kill her, and the detective had been on vacation 466 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 2: for a week. When he got back, he listens to 467 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 2: his voicemails and lo and behold, here's Julie Jensen saying, 468 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 2: I'm really afraid my husband's going to kill me, And 469 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,719 Speaker 2: lo and behold, they get a call Julie Jensen has 470 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 2: died in her bed just because somebody says, I think 471 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 2: my husband's trying. 472 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: To kill me. 473 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 2: She could be trying to frame him, and police are 474 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 2: not going to just take that and say, oh, we 475 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 2: got to get him now. They're going to do what 476 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 2: anybody would do and say, well, maybe there's more afoot. 477 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 2: And actually that's what Mark Jensen's team tried to say, 478 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 2: that Julie Jensen was so depressed and everything else that 479 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 2: she wanted to commit suicide. And it's like the movie 480 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 2: Gone Girl. Make Mark Jensen look guilty of murder. 481 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: Try to blame him for this in advance, and this 482 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: kind of postmortem framing, if you will, which is fascinating 483 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: construct in and of itself. Are you going to that link? 484 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: And she had made no secret about telling people within 485 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: her circle that she felt in danger. But you know 486 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: the sad thing about this, this comes down to a 487 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: mother's love. She had two children, and by all accounts, 488 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: she was a fantastic mama, and she did not want 489 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: to walk away from her family, this creation, this familial 490 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: unit that she had created along with Mark. After all 491 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: of these years, she had two sons that she was 492 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: very proud of that were the center of her universe 493 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: and she did not want to leave them. And just 494 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: imagine that you're a mother, You have the sense that 495 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: you're in danger. But yet you've got these two young kids, right, 496 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: they might be in dangerous well perhaps that if they're left, 497 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: would this guy, because if he'll killed the mom, he 498 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: might kill them as well. She wanted to be there 499 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: to protect them, and they were very young when all 500 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: of this. Their grown men obviously now, but when this 501 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: first occurred back in nineteen ninety eight, they were eight 502 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: and three. Yeah, they were eight and three. She had 503 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: to be there for them. You have this dynamic within 504 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: the family that you don't want to She doesn't want 505 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: to leave them. She has to be there to protect them. 506 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: And she had even said, she had even said on 507 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: a couple of occasions, that he's dangerous. She had an 508 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: awareness of danger. And she didn't just say it to 509 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: the next door neighbor. It us to be this letter. 510 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: She had said it to a number of people, including 511 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: this detective that she left a message for. 512 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 2: And that's the part that again you and I have 513 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 2: talked about a couple of times from the very beginning, 514 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 2: because she had spoken out to her enters or close friends. 515 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 2: She had reached out to police that they weren't looking 516 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 2: at Mark. But you can't just arrest somebody because somebody 517 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 2: said they might do something, and that's why they built 518 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 2: a case. It actually took a couple of months before 519 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 2: they ever actually sat down with Mark Jensen and interviewed him. 520 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 2: That was like March the following year, and in that interview, 521 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: which you can see online, they're pushing and trying to 522 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 2: get him to admit because the detective was like, dude, really, 523 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: how did it happen? How did she die? And Mark 524 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 2: Jensen stayed to this story. Hey man, she had been sick, 525 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 2: She was sick that morning and she just died. It 526 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 2: was only after they found out that he had been 527 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 2: having an affair with Kelly Leabonni. And by the way, 528 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 2: that affair began in September of nineteen ninety eight. Julie 529 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 2: dies December third. Additional little sidebar, Kelly Leabanni entered into 530 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 2: a sexual relationship with Mark Jensen two weeks after she 531 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 2: was married. She was a newlywed when she began having 532 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 2: a sexual relationship with Mark Jensen, whose wife turns up 533 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 2: dead three months later, and then he eventually marries Kelly Leabanni. 534 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: So there was a lot going on in this story, 535 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 2: in the interpersonal relationships that had Pete, police swirling trying 536 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 2: to put together everything in in order that could take 537 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 2: a trial, and as you mentioned, they did how to 538 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 2: do two trials. The first one it was in two 539 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 2: thousand and eight, and that letter from the grave, it 540 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 2: became a focal point of that first trial. 541 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: It did, and I think that in the second trial 542 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: they were not able to utilize that letter. But when 543 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: you have this physical evidence. Bringing this back around to 544 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: the physical evidence, you have the evidence that there was 545 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: actually an freeze in her stomach when she was autopsied, 546 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: and the toxicologists made a fantastic point from a stand even. 547 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: He said, that is not a substance that you would 548 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: expect to find in someone's system, let alone, you know, immediately, 549 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: in their stomach, and that implies that they had been 550 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: dosed in the short term. The toxicologist went on to 551 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: describe that she had been being dosed for a while, 552 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: so this was kind of an ongoing progression that was 553 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: portrayed in court, and they were able to put together 554 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: this timeline. You combine that with the idea that she 555 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: had in fact been smothered, it turns out that they 556 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: didn't need the letter. But I think the letter revealed 557 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: a lot. I'm Josep Scott Morgan and this is body Backs.