1 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: This is a me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: severely bog bitten and in my case, underwear listening Don't 3 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: Make You Eat podcast. You can't predict anything, all right, 4 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: Bart George, there you are a month ago. Yeah, getting 5 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: a bit on the arm by a mountain lead lay that. 6 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: I'll lay that all out for me. Well, how that 7 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: all happened? Um? Yeah, I wasn't thinking about it at 8 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: the time. I guess what it led all up to it, 9 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: But um, we're starting a project. It was the first 10 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: day of a project with a new crew, UM putting 11 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: collars on cougars and Washington up in the northeast corner, 12 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: an area that I'm very familiar with and feel comfortable 13 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: running the dogs around. Um. Anyways, I was the hound 14 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: handler that day and had my four dogs and found 15 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: a nice tom track. UM in the snow. Yeah, we 16 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: had about it was I don't know, just before Christmas 17 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: something like that, So we had about eight inches of 18 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: snow on the ground. UM found a good track fresh 19 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: last night and figured we're gonna pop it up pretty quick. 20 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: So I put the Nosy, the little tiny dog that 21 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: we hunted with, and then Radar, the big male. UM, 22 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: I put that that's the greatest name for a dog 23 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: in the history of dogs. Is a good name? Knows 24 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: not knows he's a good name. You get to know, 25 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: knows he's a little better. You'll agree. No, No, there 26 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: has nothing to the dog. I'm saying, like, if I 27 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: ever get a dog, I was gonna name my next 28 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: dog high Ball among the name of Radar. You don't mind, Yeah, 29 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: I don't mind. Put a junior or something, maybe Radar Junior. 30 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: So there are you, Nosey and Radar, right. Um? So 31 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: I put those two on the track and there they 32 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: smoked it for like four yards and then they had 33 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: a loss, which you know, I'm not able to keep 34 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: up with them. They get out ahead of me there 35 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: four hundred yards in no time. And you got a 36 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: GPS collar on the dogs. Yeah, I've got collars on everybody. 37 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: So I'm watching the collar. And there's a handful of 38 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: us now you know, the state biologists and um a 39 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: grad student, and we're trying to figure out what's going on. 40 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: Like I said, the first day of the projects, there's 41 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: still some you know, introductions and that kind of stuff happening. 42 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: Who like who's who? Right? Yeah, can you explain a loss. 43 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: You say, well, you got to back up before that 44 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: when he says watching the collar. You have a handheld 45 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: GPS unit that shows you where you are and shows 46 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: you where the dogs are based on the little GPS 47 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 1: units that are on their collar, right, so it's a yeah, 48 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: it's a transmitter then from the collar back to my handheld, 49 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: so you see yourself relative to your dogs, like you 50 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: see everybody on there right now, I know where all 51 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: the dogs are. I know where I'm at. And then 52 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: there's also of course the map layer of the road 53 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: layer and stuff like that. Um. So I'm watching the 54 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: dogs and they get out, you know, four yards and 55 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: they have a loss where and I can tell it's 56 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: a loss because they're like they lost the track. Yeah, 57 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: they're moving the track well, and you could hear them, 58 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: of course at that distance. They got out of hearing 59 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: and you're watching the GPS unit and you'll see it 60 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: where they kind of start circling and doing different things, 61 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: and you can tell they're looking for a track. And 62 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: sometimes that's because the cat made a kill, um, and 63 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: there's tracks everywhere. Sometimes the cat would you know, walk 64 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: out and turn back and walk on its own tracks 65 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: and that will confuse them and they have a hard 66 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: time finding an out track there. Um. So anyways, I 67 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: had one of those going on and it took quite 68 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: a while. Um there's a fairly long loss, but they're 69 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: far enough in where you know, I could take off 70 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: and walk to them, but generally by the time I 71 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: got there, they'd have sorted it out and taken off. Um. 72 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: So I'm trying to give him a chance to work. 73 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: And I decided to kick Whisper loose, who's kind of 74 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: the old dog, um, pretty good at line and out 75 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: a tough track. I put her on the track thinking 76 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: that she would get everybody together. But by the time 77 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: I let her go, and you know, in while she 78 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: was en route, the dogs split, So I had Radar 79 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: going one way and Nosy going another, which is a 80 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: little bit unusual. Um. And when Whisper got there, instead 81 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: of pulling everybody back together or getting everybody on the 82 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: right track, Whisper went with Radar just automatically. He was 83 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: probably making more noise or whatever. Um. So those two 84 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: ended up taking off on a backtrack and Nose he 85 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: turned out to be on the right track, of course 86 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: at the time, and you know, at the time I 87 00:04:54,960 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: didn't know that obviously had no idea. Um, so I'm 88 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: still fairly close. I'm within a half a mile of everybody, 89 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: and knows he's kind of working up away from me 90 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: and radar and whisper kind of paralleling the road that 91 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: I'm on. So I'm able to get closer to them 92 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: and listen and see what they're up to. And while 93 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm doing that nose, he starts showing treat and what's 94 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: that look like? Um, Well, like I said, I can't 95 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: hear her. She's now eight tens of them mile away. 96 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: So I'm looking at the GPS unit. And when the 97 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: dog sits still for I think thirty seconds or whatever 98 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: setting you put it on, you get a little tree 99 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: symbol that just shows your dogs not moving. Um. Then 100 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: it shows you how much it's barking. They can yeah, 101 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: but knows he's um hers doesn't usually register. She pretty 102 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: You don't get the barks permitted that dog. No, I 103 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: don't know if she's just too quiet or what's going 104 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: on there. She she barks, but um, yeah, I don't 105 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: know. I I don't usually get it radar, you know, I 106 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: get a p p MS at a radar anytime he 107 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: opens his mouth, but he not really, so I'm not 108 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: concerned that it doesn't show her barking at this point. 109 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: Um So I started up towards her, hoping, you know, 110 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: thinking maybe she's had another loss and she's just not 111 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,559 Speaker 1: moving or she's sometimes they get hung up. Why aren't 112 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: you thinking that it caught the line? Uh? Well, I 113 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,239 Speaker 1: was hoping that was the case, but I was still 114 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: because Whisper and Radar were on this other track. I 115 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: was still thinking that they were right, and she was 116 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: still searching, trying to figure stuff out. Um, I don't know. 117 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: I just trusted the two dogs more than the one. 118 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: So when you know, I got within maybe four yards 119 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: of where she was, and I had Tipsy with me, 120 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: the young dog. Who's she's I say, she's but she's 121 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, three and been on a lot of cats 122 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: and knows the routine pretty well. Um I had her 123 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: with me in the box, so we got out. I 124 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: had her loose, walking down to nosey to see what 125 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: was going on, and I couldn't hear her barking, which 126 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: then I was pretty concerned because I knew she wasn't 127 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: treat at that point. Um So we walked down into 128 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: kind of a swampy area similar to where we were, uh, 129 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: where we found your cat. You know, there's a lot 130 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: of tracks around he's been living in there. Pretty tough spot, 131 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: um for a dog to work. And we got down. 132 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: You know, I'm watching the GPS unit and I can 133 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: see her caller showing like eighty yards. I'm still not 134 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: here and her and I'm showing fifty ft and I 135 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: can't hear her. And you're thinking it got killed by wolves. 136 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: I'm thinking at that point, I didn't know. I didn't know. 137 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: Maybe she was in a river down there. I didn't know. 138 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: You know, I've had a dog one time get hung 139 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: up on a stob at a caller, you know, get 140 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: a stop through its collar, and it was just sitting 141 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: there quietly, just waiting for me to come get it. 142 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: So I was hoping something like that. UM, but I 143 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: obviously was concerned. I hadn't seen any wolf tracks yet, 144 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: so I didn't think wolves had killed her. Um. And yeah, 145 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: down you know, twenty ft or whatever, and I'm it's 146 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: fairly open and there's a you know, the trees are 147 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: pretty open and they're heavy with snow, so all the imagine, 148 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: like a Christmas tree is heavy with snow, and it 149 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: builds this kind of cave underneath the pulls the branches 150 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: down to the ground. So Tipsy walks over to one 151 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: of those, and it was strange, she never smelled anything. 152 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: She was still Another one of her dogs came and 153 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: found you. Tipsy was with me with me and Radar 154 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: and Whisper is still working on a trail and knows 155 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: he's missing at four of them. So Tipsy starts showing 156 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: like a major concern around this tree m She walks 157 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: over kind of to the entrance I guess, to this 158 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: cave or whatever underneath this tree well, and she lowers 159 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 1: her level and her ankles go up and she starts 160 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: this growl, and at that point I knew what was 161 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: going on. So I walked towards her to get ahold 162 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: of her, and I'm sure now, I'm like, okay, the 163 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: cat's got nos he's got her dead underneath this tree 164 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: is probably eating on her. Um. I want to get 165 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: Tipsy out of there before I ever wreck with this 166 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: cat and her. So I walk over and I leaned 167 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: down to grab Tipsy and I'm, you know, six or 168 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: eight feet away from the entrance to this tree well, 169 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: and that cat kind of steps towards me, and that's 170 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: the first time I saw him. Um. So I how 171 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: close is no? Six or eight feet away? Its real close. Um. 172 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: I still don't see Nosy, but I know she's there. Um. 173 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: So I grabbed Tipsy by the collar and I started, 174 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, hollering at him, and I back off and 175 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: UM kind of put a little angle so I'm not 176 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: like blocking his way out, and you're not toting the 177 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: firearm or anything. I didn't have a gun with me. 178 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: I didn't have bear spray with me because it's not 179 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: bear season. Um yeah, no gun. Um. So yeah, I 180 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 1: back off maybe fifteen or eighteen feet and I'm hollering 181 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: the whole time, screaming at him, and he kind of 182 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: backs it back into that hole where I can't see 183 00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: him anymore. And so I put a little bit of 184 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: angle on that cave entrance so it doesn't feel like 185 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: I'm trapping him in there. And uh, I start, you know, 186 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: I'm still screaming and screaming. He won't come out. So 187 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: I grab a stick and I'm just gonna toss this 188 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: stick in and you know, spook him out right. Um, 189 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: which always works if you just throw a snowball at 190 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: a cat, it'll jump out of a tree or whatever. 191 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: So I'm thinking, toss a stick at him, get him moving, um, 192 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: get him out of there. So I break this stick 193 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: off and I've got Tipsy on a leash nowo to 194 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: my left arm, and I take this stick and I 195 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: just kind of under arm toss it over to the tree. 196 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: And the minute that it hits the tree, he just 197 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: blows out. And he's coming towards me, and it's close 198 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: like fet like I said, So it's happening quick, and 199 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like in my head, I've got this dog 200 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 1: attached to me at this point, the cats underneath the tree, 201 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: and I'm like fifteen or eighteen feet from it, and 202 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: I I just want to get my dog out of there, right. 203 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: I want to get Nosi's body out of there. I 204 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: want to get my collars off of her. I just 205 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: want to be out of there. You feel a little sad? 206 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: Are you feeling sad for the dog? He's like your buddies? Yeah, 207 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: totally my buddy. Yeah. At the time, there's a lot happening. Um, yeah, 208 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: I wanted to get I was whatever. I figured. I 209 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: knew that knows he was dead. I wasn't gonna you know, 210 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: I had to get Tipsy out of there safely, had 211 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: to get myself out of there safely, and I wanted 212 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: to make sure I got Nosi's body out of there. Um. 213 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: So I take this stick and I tossed it at 214 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: the tree and the cat just immediately blows out and 215 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: he's coming straight at me. Um, like accidentally on purpose. 216 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: Well that's what I thought, right, because you know, it 217 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: happens fast, but you're you know, it's kind of in 218 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 1: slow motion in your mind as it's happening. And this 219 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: cats coming towards me, and I'm thinking, okay, there's snow 220 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: coming out of the tree, and everything else is confused, 221 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: doesn't really know where I'm at. And he just keeps coming, 222 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: and you know, I've got Tipsy on a leash, losing 223 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: her mind, and I'm thinking the cat's gonna stop or 224 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: turn or do whatever, and it just keeps coming and 225 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: coming and coming until it makes it big jump towards me. 226 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: And um, I had her on my left arm, so 227 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: I kind of turned the right side of my body 228 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: to him, and he hit me on the right side 229 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: and knocked me down. Hit you with what front feet? 230 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: Yea I don't think he ever actually got teeth on me. Um, 231 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: So he cut me a little bit on the right arm, 232 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: knocked me down, and I had my backpack on luckily, 233 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: so I kind of bawled up underneath my backpack. And 234 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: I think Tipsy was just as shocked as I was, 235 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: because she was still pretty quiet at this point, or 236 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: she was quiet again, and the cat kind of went 237 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: to work on my backpack and I could feel him 238 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: up there, and I could feel his weight on me 239 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And then Tipsy I heard the 240 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: dog fight start, you know, And I don't know if 241 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: he attacked her, she attacked him or whatever. But so 242 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: while he's working on my backpack, I hear this big 243 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: dog fight happening right on top of me. They kind 244 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: of move off to my right side, and so I 245 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: rolled in my back and now they're all they're all 246 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: piled up kind of my right hip pocket and Tipsy 247 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: hooked to my left arm. So it's a weird position 248 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: to be in and they're fighting, and um, I rolled 249 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: in my back and I started kicking him, and you know, 250 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: you don't have much power anyway. I'm wearing rubber boots 251 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: and I'm kicking him the best I can, and he 252 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: gets off a tipsy and he starts back towards me, 253 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: and he's kind of right between my legs now and 254 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 1: I'm still on my back and I'm kicking him in 255 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: the face and chest trying to get him away, and 256 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: he's he never, like I said, he never got his 257 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: mouth on me, but he was hooking my gaiters and 258 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Yeah. So when you say he has 259 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: some puncture wounds, I thought, so you had just like 260 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: a little marks. Yeah, yeah, little hooks. Um. So as 261 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: I'm kicking him kind of off more pushing him away, 262 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: like how many seconds have gone by? I don't in 263 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: contact with you. I don't know. Um, you know, the 264 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: whole closer of water ten probably ten. It seemed like ten. 265 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's probably ten seconds. I was. It 266 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: lasted longer than I actually expected. I thought, maybe just 267 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: give me a swat on the way by or something, 268 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: but he was he was pretty interested in me. Um, 269 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: I'm glad I had Tipsy with me. So I'm laying 270 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: on my back and Tipsy's on my right side and 271 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: got my left arm pretty well trapped, and he's working 272 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: on my feet and trying to get up towards my body, 273 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: and then he stops and he circles around to the 274 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: left where I'm kind of vulnerable, and I turned just 275 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: enough to give him both feet and just kind of 276 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: push him away, and that's when I was able to 277 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: get to my feet. And Tipsy's at this point, she's 278 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: fighting mad, she's barking, and she's, you know, at the 279 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: end of her lease, trying to get at him. So 280 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: he must be ten feet away from me or something. 281 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: And we're just kind of in this standoff where we're 282 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: sitting looking at each other and he's in full position. 283 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: You know, he's down like you would imagine him to be, 284 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: like in a crouch is. You know, he's working his 285 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: tail and he's looking at me. He's pretty focused on 286 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: what's going on. Um And he sat there for a 287 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: long time the same ways. How much pounds later, okay, 288 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: how much? So we're kind of having this stare down 289 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: for a little bit. And again that's probably another five 290 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: or ten seconds, and and then he walks kind of 291 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: walks the semicircle back towards the tree where knows he's at. 292 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: And of course the whole time I'm screaming at him. 293 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: You know and carrying on, make a lot of noise 294 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: at dogs barking. Um, where are the other biologists that 295 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: you're with, They're still don't know any this is happening. 296 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: They don't know any of this is happening. Because I 297 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: went in to get nose he lined out and figure 298 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: out what's going on. I was going to call them 299 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: if we were treated, um, and I had them listening 300 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: to those other dogs to see what they were doing. 301 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: And they're the ones that the tranquilizer gone. They've got 302 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: the dark gun. Um. So yeah, he finally kind of 303 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: walks off and then he got maybe twenty yards away 304 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: and jogged off. So I was glad to have him gone, 305 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: and I didn't want to come back, and I wanted 306 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: to get nose he gathered up and go take inventory 307 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: on myself and on tipsy to see how bad she 308 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: was hurt. And I walked over to the tree to 309 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: gather her up, and that dog hopped to her feet. 310 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: She was like buried underneath. I don't know if she 311 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: was unconscious and the cat buried her like a kill, 312 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: or if she was just playing dead and the snow 313 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: fell out of the tree and she didn't move, but 314 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: throughout that whole you know, screaming match. She never got 315 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: to her feet until I walked over and was like 316 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: underneath the tree looking for her, and she hopped up. 317 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: She was in tough shape. She had holes in her 318 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: head and across her back and back of her neck. 319 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: But it's kind of a miracle she's alive. You guys saw. Yeah, 320 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: we stitched her up, not very many because they're all 321 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: puncture wounds. There weren't any long cuts. Um, it's not 322 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: like gash has a bit, more like like tooth march. Yeah, 323 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: she's yeah, um up. And you know he had a 324 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: hold of the side of her face, the right side 325 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: of her face, and put a several holes in the 326 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: top of her head and underneath the kind of on 327 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: her jawline, and then across her back. She had a 328 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: bunch of holes, probably from clause. He probably gathered her 329 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: up that way and then hit her on the head. Um. 330 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: So she ended up with five drains, you know, the 331 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: latex tu being drains in her and handful of stitches 332 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: putting those back together. Now what percent recovered as the 333 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: dog now, uh, she's treats several cats since then. Does 334 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: she have a renewed vigor. Yeah, she's like more cautious. Now. 335 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, I haven't seen her well now she's 336 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: she's right back where she was. I don't think she 337 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: missed a beat. Actually, she's had cats bail out of 338 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: the tree and she's right on their case. She's not 339 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: like more blood thirsty. She's always been pretty bloodthirsty. I 340 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: don't think she's I mean, she's a she's a good 341 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: little hound. Um. I wonder if she wasn't unconscious, because 342 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: I would think that would really blood. No, l they 343 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: don't like chase. Someone told me. I think Floyd was 344 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: telling me one of his dogs got scratched up by 345 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: a line and he thought that he came out extra 346 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: excited about running line. Yeah, they I mean, hounds aren't 347 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: real smart dogs. By the way, it wouldn't chase lines 348 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: right to be bird dogs or something. Do you know, 349 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 1: I totally disagree with that sentiment. I don't know. So 350 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: you guys went back out like there was a debate, 351 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 1: right that you should maybe go kill the cat because 352 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: he's no kind of mixed it up with a person 353 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: who was that not a serious debate at all, Um, 354 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 1: not really a serious debate on something, you know, It's 355 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: not like I was just out hiking and this cat 356 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: pounced on me or something. You were asking for it. Yeah, 357 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: I was knocking on his door. Um So, Now we 358 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: didn't really talk about like youthanizing that cat. I you 359 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: know knows he was in tough shape. I was unnerved 360 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah right, Yeah, it shook me up a 361 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: little bit. Um it was that your first skirmish with 362 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: the mountain lion. Yeah. How many mountain lions have you, 363 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: um been either like the you treat or were present 364 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: for the like? How many mountain lions have you encountered 365 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: hunting and in in your professional life as a biologist? 366 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: Oh jeez, I don't know a lot, um more than 367 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: a yeah more, and never had a skirmish with one. No, 368 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: I've never had a cat even look at me. Like 369 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: when this cat looked at me underneath the tree, I 370 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: should have known that it wasn't impressed by what by? 371 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: What is so like? It wasn't intimidated, not at all. No, 372 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: um So I should have known right then. But again, 373 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: there's a lot happening. I got my dog under there, 374 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: and you know, it's do you get a little bit 375 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: complacent after however, many cats right, you don't I think 376 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: it's ever gonna happen. Had you ever heard of something 377 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: like that in your final work? Um, well, Floyd's buddy 378 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: joke up attack by one, I didn't hear that story. 379 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: He got his ankle and foot all chewed up by one, 380 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: and I don't know. I mean again, he's been running. 381 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: I mean he's treated. I'm sure in the hundreds, mart, 382 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: I heard a story that I thought to be untrue 383 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: about some guy in the whatever Southwest States that treat 384 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: a lion. There's two of them, and a lot of 385 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: times cats will focus on a person down underneath the tree. 386 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: You know, they'll pick one person out out of a 387 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: group or whatever, and they'll kind of focus on them, 388 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: and that's not unusual. Um, but this story went that 389 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: the guy's were underneath the tree and this cat was 390 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: kind of watching this guy and whatever. When he got 391 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: the opportunity, the guy turned his back and the cat 392 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: jumped out of the tree over the dogs and landed 393 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: on this guy and was like working on him. And 394 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: I always thought that that was untrue, but maybe it wasn't. 395 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: Your believer, Yeah, it might be, but with all the 396 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: dogs around still, it still sounds like a tall tale. 397 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: This guy, Joe Mitchell, the guy on top of Mouth, 398 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: the got chewed up by one on his boot. I 399 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: think it was a little bit bad, like he had 400 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: had some work done on his foot. Um. Oddly, he 401 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: likes two things which I think are completely incongruous. He 402 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: likes running lions and he likes playing golf, which is 403 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: just like you. I mean, he's like, yeah, And I 404 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: was saying to him, but how could you golf, because like, 405 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: lion hunting is so challenging and hard, and how could 406 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: you do something so like kind of benign and you know, 407 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,479 Speaker 1: like unmasculine his golf, you know. And he said, man, 408 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: you got a golf all the time just to be 409 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: shitty at it? Yeah, he was. He felt he found 410 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: the challenge there. I wonder how that attack went. I 411 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: got Yeah, he told me the story. I remember the details. 412 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: But then so, okay, so you guys still want he 413 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 1: wanted to put a collar on his line. No, the 414 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: one that got you. Now we're over this line come 415 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: out of you were chasing in the first place, to 416 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: put a collar on it for a predation study, right, 417 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: So you'd watch where his lion goes and he'd see 418 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: that he kind of hung around the area and you're 419 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,479 Speaker 1: going there and see what he killed. Or you had 420 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: deer note wearing kyle and when they got killed, you 421 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: go see who killed him. Right, So the state has 422 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: a study going. They're going to call her I think 423 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: fifty deer and whatever, fifteen cougars um and that's right, 424 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: we'll get a point cluster from a cougar going and 425 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: investigate to kill. That's what the grad student was there for. 426 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: I think this and so this work. When you got 427 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: scratched by its cat, that was what you were trying 428 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: to do, right, But you guys went back and caught 429 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: the line accidentally. Yeah, um, how do you accidentally catch 430 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: a line? Well, so accidentally the same line, accidentally, the 431 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: same line as you were, like out with a vendetta line. 432 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: I wasn't after that line. So were you avoiding that line? 433 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 1: I was a little scared of that line because all 434 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: he was unpredictable. Yeah, like they usually go up a tree. 435 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 1: He didn't want to go into a tree. Well with 436 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: one dog though, I wouldn't necessarily I mean for nosey 437 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 1: to get attacked like that. Okay, that's not that unusual anymore. 438 00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: Like people used to run with one dogs. You don't 439 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 1: do that anymore ever, because of protect forest protection. What's that? 440 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: What do you mean like you're protecting the dogs by 441 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: having multiple dogs though right cats have I don't know 442 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: if cat behaviors changed whatever. That's sort of the conjecture 443 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: at this point, Like people Bruce used to run one dog, 444 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: used to guide his sons with one dog, and he 445 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 1: did it for years, um until the dog got killed 446 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: by a lion. Um. But yeah, everybody's kind of upping 447 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: the number of their packs right now. And I think 448 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: maybe we've had three dogs ambush this year by lions. Yeah, 449 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: so this is kind of an emerging trend with lions 450 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 1: and learning how they're like developing a different strategy on 451 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: dealing with dogs. So in all three cases, it's been 452 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: a single dog that got out in front of the pack. 453 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: Um that they perceive a single dog differently than a 454 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: group of dogs. Ye, and they outweigh him by I mean, 455 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: how much is how much is the dog that got 456 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: scratched up? Way, She's thirty two pounds that day at 457 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: the vent and I think, yeah, there's no contest. Yeah, 458 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: that's why it's surprised me. And would ever bother to 459 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: run away from him. Well, you've got to think about 460 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: you know, lions live out there. It's silent. They're not 461 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: vocal animals. Really, they don't make a lot of noise, 462 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: especially a big solitary tom. He's not making much noise. Um. 463 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: The only noise he ever hears is like if he 464 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: snatches a calf or a faun or something you briefly. 465 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: And also it sounds like Holy hell. Coming to the 466 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: roads of those dogs has to be an unnerving, pretty 467 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: stressful deal when you know a whole pack of dogs 468 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: flies up on you like that and they just pop 469 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: up a tree. Um. Yeah, I think I was telling 470 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: you this. Like my Boddy re Emmy this year. He 471 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: was watching some lions on a kill and some wolves 472 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: rolled in and the lions just popped up the tree, 473 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: took a nap, right, you know. It's like they've done 474 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: it a hundred times. That's and that's I mean, maybe 475 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: that's why dogs are fighting more now. Not like I said, 476 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: nobody knows. All the hound hunters are talking about different theories. 477 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: Theories you know, um probably may probably reasonable. And this cat, 478 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: being as big as he is, if one wolf rolls 479 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: and he and killed that wolf too. That doesn't mean anything. 480 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: So I think maybe he's just sick of getting run 481 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: off of kills, you know, every time he kills a 482 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: dearyelk if a wolf rolls in and takes it from him, 483 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: he's over that. So after a while he's like it's 484 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: not going to work out for him anymore. Um. But anyways, Yeah, 485 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: we don't really know what the deal was with that cat. 486 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: He Uh. Yeah, the way we accidentally got on him. 487 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: We were hunting south of kind of a main road 488 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: that day by a couple of miles. And how many 489 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: miles from where the scratching occurred. Yeah, like I said, 490 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: a couple of miles from that spot. So the next 491 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: day we went like four miles or the next day 492 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: we went to a different drainage and caught a cat. Um. 493 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: I actually called a friend in to bring some dogs 494 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: because I was like, Stacy wasn't into the idea of 495 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: me taking any more dogs out, and yeah she was. 496 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: It was like, your wife said, you can't use these 497 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: dogs or run lines anymore. There was a brief moratorium 498 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: on cougar hunting for the day. Yeah, we had a 499 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: more torment eating black bears in my house after trickings. 500 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: I know, I know what you're saying. It's kind of 501 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: waited out and yeah, so that took a little while 502 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 1: to kind of get ourselves back together, um and whatever. Yeah, 503 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: it was unnerving. It was spooky for sure, like you 504 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: just don't expect that. And I needed to get my 505 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: you know, feedback in the water right away. I didn't 506 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: want to take a break, but um, yeah, I was 507 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: not ready to put my dogs back on a cat 508 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: just yet. Um. So anyways, I called a buddy up 509 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: who's got really good dogs, and we caught a cat. 510 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: The next day. Everything went exactly the way it was 511 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: supposed to. Um, I did have one dog with me. 512 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: I had tipsy that day. Um, all the dogs were safe. 513 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: Of course, we got a dart and him safely collared released. 514 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: Everything worked perfectly. So we're feeling pretty good. When you 515 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: hit that line with the dart. How long does it 516 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: take for the dart to take effect? About five or 517 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: six minutes? No, um, fairly quick. But um, you know, 518 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: if a cat jumps out of a tree and takes 519 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: off with a dart in it, we have all the 520 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: dog is tied back. Obviously, they can go quite a 521 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: ways in five or six minutes. So you put the 522 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: dogs back on them. Um, risk because the dog, because 523 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: they can't, might fall asleep on the ground, right and 524 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: the dogs chew it up. We can't have that happen. Um. 525 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: So the way we would do that is then just 526 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: put a dog on a leash and track it that way. Um, 527 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: you catch another one, catch another one, go smoothly, everybody's 528 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: feeling good, projects back on track. Um, got our first 529 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: collar out, feel good about that. We go to another 530 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: spot and cut a track looks like a tom track, 531 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: pretty good size, and we're the same day as the 532 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: other collar one, now the day after that. So two 533 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: days after the dog got attacked a little the same 534 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: day as he caught. Another day after that one caught one. 535 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: Then the following day we went back out just like 536 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: whatever Wednesday. And you're saying, first collar of the whole study. Yeah, 537 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: so the the attack happened on the very first, say morning, 538 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: an interesting way to kick off. Yeah, yeah, it was 539 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: a lot of drama to start with. Um. So on 540 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: day three we go out, we cut a track and 541 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: we're you know, I look like whatever majorun Google Earth 542 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: or whatever else. We're six miles from where nosey got 543 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: gathered up so pretty good distance two days across the 544 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: main road, you know, across a big drainage. We didn't 545 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: expect it to be the same cat. Turned out that 546 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: it was. Now, how do you know that? Though? I 547 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: hope it is, uh, because just the behavior of the cat, 548 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: the size, the behavior, proximity. Um. We ended up on 549 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: a really long chase. We put Jared has good fast dogs. 550 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: They ran this thing like over several drainages. We ended 551 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: up on a super long chase. Finally say ran so 552 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: actually like in pursuit. No, no, no, just track. And 553 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: he was a traveling cat. He was a traveler. Yeah, 554 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: you know what this is. This is an important thing. 555 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: And I know we harp on this all time, we're 556 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: talking about lines. We might as to take a minute 557 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: now to talk about this. No on the way this out. 558 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: Then you then you run with it or correct me 559 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: where I mess up? When when people when you're running 560 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: a lion track, it's not like like for the bulk 561 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: of that time, it's not like the lion is thinking, 562 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: holy shit, these dogs are chasing me. I'm gonna go 563 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: run all around and try to get away. Right, they're 564 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: way behind him in time, and and in distance possibly 565 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: and for the bulk of the chase, as it's called. 566 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: The lion has no idea that this is going on, 567 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: probably until moments before it ends, when almost sudden he's like, 568 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: what's that noise and runs up a tree. Right, But 569 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: he just out doing his business hunting. Yeah. When I 570 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: say we ran that cat for a long ways, we 571 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: didn't run the cat. We tracked the cat for a 572 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: long way, tracked his past movement, that's right. So you know, 573 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: we're running yesterday's track and we're trying to freshen it 574 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: up and figure out what that cat has done in 575 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: the last twenty four hours. Um. So it might take 576 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: us all day to do that. Um. But by the 577 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: time the dogs catch up to the cat, the actual 578 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: chase is probably four or five yards. Like the cat, 579 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: here's the dogs coming. He might get out of his 580 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: bed and start moving away from the noise. But a 581 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: cat cannot run those dogs, um for any length of time. 582 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: So when he gets jumped when you know, that's what 583 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: we call the jump. When the when the dogs get 584 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: him up on his feet, moving or whatever, it's a 585 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: really fast thing. Seconds seconds. Yeah, if they if they 586 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: run you know, five yards. That's gonna be pretty long one. 587 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: So once those dogs get a visual on that line, 588 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: and the line gets visual on the dogs, he's not 589 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: going to think I'll just run for miles and get away. No, 590 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: he can start jumping up giant cliff faces, you know. Sometimes, Yeah, 591 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: they can. It's real unusual in our country, you know, 592 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: you hear about that though. Sometimes they'll if they climb 593 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: up a cliff face or something like that, they can 594 00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: get some space on the dogs, or if they go 595 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: someplace they can't get um. That's possible, but again, it's 596 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: not like this foot race where the cats just doing 597 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: all these tricks and whatever. Yeah, like it might be 598 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: he's up on a cliff face because he happened to 599 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: be up on a cliff face and the dogs happened 600 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: to find him at a point when he was up 601 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: on a cliff face, or they tracked to the base 602 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: of it and they can't get up it, and he's 603 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: then jumped moving away from the dogs. I got you. 604 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: I imagine it's not too different than if you startle 605 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: like a house cat that you're not familiar with and 606 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: it's not familiar with you, whether it was like with 607 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: a dog or kids, or whatever it's like outside, and 608 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: you also just like see a cat that's chilling Austin. 609 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: The cat is just oh my god. He runs up 610 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: a tree. It's probably very similar to that. Right. He 611 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: just goes from like this whatever he was doing, loafing 612 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: around to being sort of surprised, and he's like, what's 613 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: the easiest way to get out of the situation, And 614 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: that's that tree right there, right. Lions especially are that way. Um. 615 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: I think lions, once you get them jumped, you know, 616 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: I think they lay and just listen to those dogs 617 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: come quite close before they get concerned. Um, but once 618 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: they realize that the dogs are coming for them, they 619 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: take off and they probably climb pretty quick. Um. Bobcats 620 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: will outrun dogs. Yes, I've had bobcats on chases, walked 621 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: past me at you know, ten yards, and I've kicked 622 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: fresh dogs on them, and the podcast still outran us. 623 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: They have more stamina, they can absolutely outrun a dog, 624 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: and they're a little bit lighter scented, so the dogs 625 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: can't run the track quite as quickly, so they have 626 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: a pretty major advantage there. And bears can outrun dogs, 627 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: which surprises people. Bears can they'll smoke a group of dogs. Yeah, 628 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: so you get the lion. So we get the track. Okay, 629 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: we got this cat finally starting to like, we think 630 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: we're on the fresh end of this track. And this 631 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: is a huge you know, it's a forty five minute 632 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: drive to get back around the next drainage where we 633 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: can get close enough to even get a signal back 634 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: on the dogs and figure out what's happening. This is 635 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: an all day deal. Um. So we get this cat 636 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: in this canyon, we think we're close. The dogs are 637 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: really moving the track more quickly. Um, and then we 638 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: start getting a tree single, so we start their way, 639 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, walking down this steep, nasty canyon. The dogs 640 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: are all showing tread and then they'll break tree and 641 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: you'll hear this. You know, once you're in hearing, you 642 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: can kind of figure out what's going on. So you 643 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: hear all the dogs barking tree like they're looking at it. 644 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: It's a different bark, and then all of a sudden 645 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: gets super excited and their move and they'll go back 646 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: to tree again. So let you know, the lions jump 647 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: in the tree. That's right, So what you know the 648 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: the great humor is Jerry Clower calls it tap in 649 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: the tree for some reason, tap the tree, which means 650 00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: it left its tree, in reference to Racoon's Really Yeah. 651 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: You know Jerry Clark, he used to get up between 652 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: sets at the Grand Old Operation tell hunting stories. You 653 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: should get yourself from Jerry Clower's CDs. I'm gonna have 654 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: to most about coon hunting and a lot about dogs. 655 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,720 Speaker 1: His dog was high Ball. Okay, I was gonna steal 656 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: his name. Now I'm stealing your is a good dog name. 657 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: So how the cats moving and jump in and um 658 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: had Jared's dogs on the race again, and I had 659 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: a Tipsy with me, and then James brought a dog along. 660 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: So we have these six dogs that are all fast, 661 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: and you're letting all these dogs out because this thing 662 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: won't get into a tree, and state point let it 663 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: out because we thought it was treat. So I dump, 664 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, we have all that we dump. Uh Tipsy, 665 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: like I said, I still call her a pup. She's 666 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: been a lot of cats. She's three. And then James 667 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: dog is actually a pup. She's like a year old. Um. 668 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: So they raced down the hill and we hear, you know, 669 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: they hear him get to the tree. And now there's 670 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,839 Speaker 1: I said, there's all six dogs are there. We think 671 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: we have this cat caught. It's in a it ends 672 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: up climbing a big cedar tree. We feel good about it. Um. 673 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: The state crew shows up, biologists and um the grad 674 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: student and we're getting things set up to dark this 675 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: cat and with whatever, all five or six of us 676 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: standing around and the dogs and we're trying to get 677 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 1: the net set up to catch it if it goes 678 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: under in the tree and falls. And the cat just 679 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: finally said it had enough and climbed down out of 680 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: this huge tree that it was sixty ft up, climbed down, 681 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: jumped over all of us, and then refused to tree again. 682 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: So now he's just walking and fighting dogs, which was 683 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,760 Speaker 1: a problem. Um. And it's just blow down, it's steep, 684 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: it's getting dark. I mean, this is like the worst 685 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: place in the world to do this. UM. So we're 686 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:48,879 Speaker 1: at this point like thinking we need to just get 687 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: the dogs off of this cat and get out of 688 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: there before somebody gets hurt or one of the dogs 689 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: gets killed. And so probably took you know, twenty minutes 690 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: of you know, catching the cat on the ground and 691 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: trying to get dogs gathered and then you see in 692 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: the cat. Yeah, we're on the count the whole time, 693 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: Like Jared and I are like right on him all 694 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: the time. When you can't shoot it with the tranquilizer 695 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: because you gotta catch the dogs where you tranquilizing, right, Um, 696 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: And we want it in a safe spot and whatever. 697 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: Brian's running the trank gun, the dark gun, and we're 698 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: just you know, we're just there to handle the dogs 699 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 1: at this point, which means now we're just trying to 700 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: get the dogs out of there. Um. We're all pretty 701 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 1: well fed up with this cat. And we get finally, 702 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: you get this cat caught in a blowdown, and we 703 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: think we can get all the dogs gathered and just 704 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 1: pull them. Um. So Jared slips in to start getting 705 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: leashes on dogs, and UM, I'm about fifteen yards downhill 706 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: from them, and I'm like still headed their way, and 707 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: Jared starts pulling dogs out, and that cat comes out 708 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: from underneath the blowdown, and I think it's the first 709 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: time he'd actually really got to look at us and 710 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: knew what was going on, and he looked at Jared 711 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: and started at him through all those dogs. Yeah, it 712 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: was terrifying. Um, so Jared had one of the you know, 713 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: saw the cable leashes that we used with a clip 714 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 1: at each end, and it was still clasped. Jared's whipping 715 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: this cat in the face, trying to get it to 716 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:22,399 Speaker 1: just stop, and the dogs are you know, all over 717 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: its case and it's like focused on him, which is 718 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: a weird, unnerving kind of thing. Um, so, yeah, I 719 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: have my gun with me this day. Um so I 720 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: have my gun out, but there's dogs everywhere and the 721 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: cat's very close to Jared and you don't want to 722 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: shoot a cat unless you like absolutely have to. And 723 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: at this point, I'm thinking, now there's pretty good chance 724 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: nobody's going to get hurt yet. Um the cat turns 725 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: and takes off, and he finally climbs up on a 726 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 1: leaning log about eight feet high, and he's war out. 727 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: Now he's been like he's been in like a twenty 728 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: minute scrap and he's on this log and you can 729 00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: see he's breathing pretty heavily, and Brian was a able 730 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: to slip a dart into him, so we were able 731 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: to you know, and then we darted him with the 732 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: dogs loose still, but we were able to tone the 733 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: dogs and pull them back off once we had a 734 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: dart in him and he ended up going out on 735 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:17,399 Speaker 1: that log. Basically, toning the dogs is the GPS color 736 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: has a shock feature and then also a tone feature, 737 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: So the dogs are trained to stop what they're doing 738 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: if you tone them. When you're training them, they know 739 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: that the shock follows the tone. So once they figured 740 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: to add out, they just do what you want when 741 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: they hear the tone. Yeah, once they're broke to that, 742 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: they they pretty much do whatever you want when you 743 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: hit the tone. So we got a caller on that 744 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: cat that day, which was nice. Ye, he was a 745 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: big tom. He's a hundred forty eight pounds um broken tooth, 746 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: had a busted off lower canine. We aged him at 747 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: about eleven years old, so he's as old as he's 748 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: gonna get probably. Yeah, he's on his way out. Yeah, 749 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,280 Speaker 1: he's probably been defending that territory for half a decade. 750 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: You know, he's been up there for a long time, 751 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of stuff. So again, did you guess 752 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 1: that that casts been treated before? Maybe? You know what, 753 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: maybe not legally they wouldn't. There's no hound season there, 754 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: but um, I guess back in two thousand and eight, 755 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: and nine. They were doing some hound hunting there. Maybe 756 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 1: he got treat then, but yeah, I don't know why. 757 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 1: I don't know why you had the attitude other than 758 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,319 Speaker 1: just being old, you know, kind of like the old 759 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,359 Speaker 1: man was kind of over all this nonsense. And how 760 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: when you guys go out. I mean, I saw how 761 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: it happen when we were hunting, But like, when you're there, 762 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 1: how are you It sounds kind of women you say like, oh, 763 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: we caught a track, Like isn't that? There's there's more 764 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: to it than that, Like how are you guys cutting tracks? 765 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: Because if you task a lot of people and you said, hey, 766 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: go find me a mountainline track this morning, they're not 767 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: gonna find a mountline track. Yeah, most people wouldn't. Um, well, 768 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: we have we have pretty good cougar densities up there, 769 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: and as winner gets on, you know, they get even 770 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: more dense. So finding the track, if you know what 771 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: you're looking for, is not that hard. A lot of 772 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 1: time time, Um, you look, you're working off a deer hurts. Yeah, 773 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: we're looking at winter range, so we're trying to hunt 774 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,479 Speaker 1: or you know, we're trying to whatever capture near deer 775 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: and elk herds. Um so to find you know, like 776 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: finding this track. We know that that area has quite 777 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: a few deer and elk in it. We know there's 778 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: going to be a cat anywhere there's deer and elk 779 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: in that area. Um so we cut the track and then, 780 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: you know, the harder part isn't just finding a track. 781 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: The harder part is figuring out where it's at and 782 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,399 Speaker 1: finding the freshest track we can for the dog's sake. 783 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: You know, yesterday we were hunting and are trying to 784 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: capture a cat and we ended up getting on what 785 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: wasn't the fresh end of the track. He'd crossed the 786 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: road several times, and we you know, misjudged which track 787 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: was which, and the dogs ended up spending all day 788 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: working and they ended up right back at the road 789 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: at a track that we already knew was there. So 790 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,800 Speaker 1: we just messed up. So the hardest part is figuring 791 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: out which track to turn loose on if even if 792 00:40:55,719 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: it's the same cat, to get the freshest senter do 793 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: you like running? Uh? We put this way in your 794 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: life of chase amountain lines, has more has more of 795 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: it been functioning like as a biologist, or has more 796 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: of it been functioning as a hunter. More of it 797 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 1: has been as a hunter, um for sure, but not 798 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: necessarily as like a consumer, like we treat mostly cats, 799 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 1: We treat our for pictures and dog training purposes. Um. Yeah, 800 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: like that thing that surprised me. As houndsman who've chased 801 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: lions their whole life, how few lions they ever actually shoot? Yeah? 802 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: Well that's just how many lines do you really need 803 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: to kill? Right? I don't want to kill a whole 804 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: bunch of cats. I'd rather chase him and let the 805 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: dogs get the work and you know, show somebody else 806 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: a cat. It's kind of fun. It's fun to take 807 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: somebody new out and show him a cat and let 808 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: them take pictures. Ever, ever, it's exciting for people and 809 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 1: learn about. I mean, I feel like that the work 810 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 1: that you guys are doing, I mean, it's not like 811 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 1: it's been done a million times before, right, right, you 812 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,240 Speaker 1: guys are gonna possibly gain new data that it's gonna 813 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, the study that the state's doing is 814 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: going to be it's pretty robust. It's gonna generate a 815 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: ton of cool data for sure. Um, but yeah, I 816 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: think you know what you said about hound hunters, like 817 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: not killing that many cats. Most most town hunters aren't 818 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 1: in it to kill the cat necessarily. We just want 819 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: to chase it and get the dogs in the woods 820 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So when I was when we 821 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,759 Speaker 1: went out, so I heard it was bart this December 822 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,560 Speaker 1: and we went out like looking to get a line 823 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: and kill line. Did that feel? Are you like, oh, 824 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,759 Speaker 1: this is gonna be more fun than normal or is 825 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: it just all the same to you? Um? Yeah, somebody's 826 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: shooting a cat out of that's pretty sort of anti 827 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: climactic too, Like, I don't I'm not like excited to 828 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,839 Speaker 1: go get a line. I'm excited to tree a line, 829 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:05,799 Speaker 1: But if somebody wants to kill one, it's just it's 830 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: an one more step, you know. It's then you've got 831 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: to deal with the hide and the meat and everything else. So, um, 832 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: it's different than I guess. I get asked a lot 833 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,200 Speaker 1: like well, even Stacy asked me, like, why why do 834 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: you have to go kill all these deer? Let's just 835 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 1: take their picture. Wouldn't that be the same. It's like, well, 836 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,760 Speaker 1: not really, it's not the same. But for cougars, it 837 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: it is the same. It's almost more rewarding for me 838 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: to just get a picture of a cat and let 839 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: it go. It's not that way for any other species. 840 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:35,760 Speaker 1: It's kind of strange for me. I don't I don't know. Um, 841 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: but now somebody's shooting a cat. I don't get that 842 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 1: excited about it. Kind of whatever. I know that, you know, 843 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: a lot most hunters, I feel like they want to 844 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: get a cat at some point in their life. And 845 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: I get that. I understand that. I've I've got a 846 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,839 Speaker 1: big one, um that I killed for whatever sport. How 847 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: many years ago, Um, it was a long time ago. 848 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,560 Speaker 1: It was. It was actually whispers first kind of solo cat, 849 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 1: and it turned out to be a big you know, 850 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,439 Speaker 1: Poont and Crockett Tom. It's just kind of a special cat. 851 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: Whisper struck it and ran it and treat it. Do 852 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 1: you regret killing that line? No? Yeah, I think the 853 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: build up and want to hunt one is a real 854 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 1: gradual for me. Yeah. You know, like even when I 855 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,120 Speaker 1: first saw you know, I saw a handful of lines 856 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: in the wild. Um, when that first happened, I was like, man, 857 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,960 Speaker 1: I'm dying to go on the mountain lion. Because after 858 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 1: a long time, you know, okay, almost a couple of decades, 859 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 1: of looking at their tracks, seeing a handful of them 860 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 1: that eventually I'd like I had this like like I 861 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: really wanted to go on line hunt, you know, and 862 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: a lot of it was just to just to really 863 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,440 Speaker 1: get a look at one, because they're so like you 864 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 1: just glimpse them, you know. It was like, Yeah, the 865 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,279 Speaker 1: moment I walked up, I wanted a tree. I was like, 866 00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: holy shit, I mean, that's exactly what I said, Like, 867 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: there's one just standing there and it seems like bigger 868 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,880 Speaker 1: than life, you know? Was that the first one you've 869 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,560 Speaker 1: seen a tree was the one when we were with Bart. Yeah, 870 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 1: when they jumped him and three trees. You got a 871 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,839 Speaker 1: lot of lyon looking there him in three trees. Yeah, 872 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: I've never seen one in a tree before. Yeah, we 873 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,879 Speaker 1: should talk to you that hunt because it's interesting. But yeah, 874 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 1: seeing that line for the first time, it's surreal. So 875 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:31,840 Speaker 1: we went out and Bart found the track. We're hunting 876 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: in the Idaho Paine Handle, and the first morning we went, 877 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: we went out um on an area had a ton 878 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 1: of white tails. Yeah, a lot of shiploads of white tails, 879 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 1: and they're not always there. Obviously, it was deep snow 880 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,439 Speaker 1: up above and they moved into that winter range. Yeah, 881 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,360 Speaker 1: like the snow up high because we later went up 882 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,399 Speaker 1: hind the snow up pies ball deep and there's deer 883 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,840 Speaker 1: to spend time up in that zone. And as the 884 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 1: snow was coming deer and moving down, we're just find 885 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,000 Speaker 1: like concentrations of deer. And you found a track cutting 886 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: the road. You found a track crossing the road of 887 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,759 Speaker 1: a traveling cat coming out of that high country and 888 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:14,400 Speaker 1: we're on snow machines and one of these that guys. 889 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: One thing you guys did that I thought was interesting 890 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,560 Speaker 1: was rather just being like, holy sh it, let's let 891 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,360 Speaker 1: everybody let the dogs go. You went as best you could, 892 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: checked a couple other areas where you could get on 893 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:31,279 Speaker 1: roads with snow machines to see if that if there 894 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:36,399 Speaker 1: was an obvious place where that cat crossed another road. Right, 895 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:40,080 Speaker 1: that's and to look for wolf track. That's right. There's 896 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:41,959 Speaker 1: two parts to that. So we always want to find 897 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 1: the freshest track. And you know, sometimes you can kind 898 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 1: of guess. Bruce is very good and he's been hunting 899 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 1: up there forever, so he can kind of tell you 900 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,000 Speaker 1: what the cat is going to do, especially if it's 901 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:55,760 Speaker 1: on a you know, big travel um. But the second 902 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,719 Speaker 1: part of that is finding looking for wolf tracks and 903 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,720 Speaker 1: sign and if we have any idea that there's wolves around, 904 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,919 Speaker 1: that changes, you know, how we hunt that or whether 905 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,200 Speaker 1: or not we hunt it. Yeah, because the wolves are here, 906 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,319 Speaker 1: all that ruckus and no come kill the dog, that's right. Yeah, 907 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,480 Speaker 1: they get territorial and they hear the dogs coming. That 908 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 1: can be trouble and to go check for tracks like 909 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: you kind of some of the roads we looked at 910 00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,840 Speaker 1: were distances of a couple of miles from there, and 911 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,840 Speaker 1: you're just trying to rule out like, Okay, he crossed 912 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 1: this road too, so there's no sense and turn them 913 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,480 Speaker 1: loose where he crossed the last road, because you're just 914 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,200 Speaker 1: gonna wind up getting to this point anyways. Right. Yeah. 915 00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,479 Speaker 1: The idea is, I mean, ideally we would you guys 916 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,000 Speaker 1: call it boxing them in, Yeah, hamming him in, righting 917 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,319 Speaker 1: figure out you know, one piece of ground where that 918 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,800 Speaker 1: cat has to be, which we don't usually get that lucky, 919 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,960 Speaker 1: but it can still be a huge patch of grown 920 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:48,680 Speaker 1: It might be huge. But if you can knock out 921 00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,920 Speaker 1: you know, two or the three sides, you have a 922 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,239 Speaker 1: pretty good idea either that cat went that way or 923 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,880 Speaker 1: he's still in this basin or canyon or whatever. So, um, 924 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: it really saves on dog dogs also, you know we 925 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,279 Speaker 1: have whatever certain number of dogs whatever, I think we 926 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,520 Speaker 1: had six on that hunt. Um, if you turn all 927 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: your dogs loose on the wrong end of a track 928 00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,879 Speaker 1: and they wipe their feet out, like, it takes three 929 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,719 Speaker 1: or four or five days for them to heal up, 930 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 1: so you can hunt again. We'll take care of them. 931 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:22,759 Speaker 1: What was interesting about this track, the bart phone, Well, 932 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:28,080 Speaker 1: he had a bloody foot. So it was interesting because 933 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,720 Speaker 1: you could always tell, because we ran into a number 934 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,600 Speaker 1: of lion tracks in the area, you could always tell 935 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,800 Speaker 1: this one, Dukes, he had a bloody foot. Yeah, it 936 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,320 Speaker 1: was like it's right rear or something blood want me, 937 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 1: It was kind of a mass like it was a 938 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,719 Speaker 1: weird foot, and um, usually something like that happens. You 939 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:45,800 Speaker 1: expected to get better, but a couple of times it 940 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 1: like bled worse. Yeah, well you know it's probably just 941 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,719 Speaker 1: kept it open too. So we turned out on that 942 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,799 Speaker 1: thing and nothing happened that day. I mean they ran 943 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:01,800 Speaker 1: a lion. A lot happened. They trailed thee and found 944 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,799 Speaker 1: a lion bed and with a different member we caught it. 945 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,879 Speaker 1: We were like right away we found a different line 946 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: bed and a different line track. That's right. That caused 947 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,480 Speaker 1: some confusion for us. Um. You know a lot of 948 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,799 Speaker 1: times those cats will get into spot and they'll start 949 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:22,200 Speaker 1: circling and hunting um, and we weren't you know, we 950 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,680 Speaker 1: couldn't be sure that it wasn't the cat. The dogs 951 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,040 Speaker 1: were on and they just hadn't gotten to that bed yet. 952 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,279 Speaker 1: Let's say that cat ran out and did a big loop, 953 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: and you know, we don't know that they're not going 954 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,560 Speaker 1: to end up back at that bed a few hours 955 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,879 Speaker 1: from now after a circle, and so we didn't really know. 956 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,360 Speaker 1: So at that point you're sort of like just trusting 957 00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,000 Speaker 1: the dogs and letting them work work it out. And 958 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,960 Speaker 1: he's crossing rivers. It was that was the dangerous part 959 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:48,840 Speaker 1: of that, which is a pain in the ask because 960 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,040 Speaker 1: it's um, it's like zero degrees. Yeah, the dogs don't 961 00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,319 Speaker 1: they're not gonna smell it. Were across the water, but 962 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,200 Speaker 1: it ends up being that they crossed on a log. 963 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 1: But it's difficult for the dogs. Like the dogs aren't 964 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,839 Speaker 1: agile enough to cross the same little brush jam little 965 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,960 Speaker 1: lion is gonna cross if the dog go in there, 966 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,200 Speaker 1: they're gonna be in rough shape, right, Yeah, we don't 967 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:09,759 Speaker 1: want the dogs falling in the water. And when it's 968 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,239 Speaker 1: that cold. Um. The other thing I don't I'm sure 969 00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,359 Speaker 1: you remember. Um, there's a pain. The dogs hang up 970 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,879 Speaker 1: at that crossing, and then we start getting a tree 971 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: sign and the dogs are far enough away we can't 972 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,239 Speaker 1: hear him, and it's easy to get excited and take 973 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,399 Speaker 1: off running down there to see what's going on. Plus 974 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,520 Speaker 1: they're nearly it turns out there to staying at the 975 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,040 Speaker 1: bank the river. Can't get across the river. But you 976 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,240 Speaker 1: have to do that because if one of the dogs 977 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,040 Speaker 1: is actually in the water and you're getting a tree signed, 978 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,400 Speaker 1: you better get there quickly to get them gathered up. Um. 979 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,360 Speaker 1: So that first day we spent a little bit of 980 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,319 Speaker 1: time just walking and crossing that river several times and 981 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 1: having pretty tough time of it getting everything lined out. 982 00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,080 Speaker 1: And then that cat split out of that river valley 983 00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,120 Speaker 1: on a pretty much a straight line and found another 984 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,680 Speaker 1: found another bed yep, and the bed this is like 985 00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: he lays on the ground and just kind of melts 986 00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,279 Speaker 1: a little spot into the snow. It looks like a 987 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,319 Speaker 1: deer bed, something like at the base of a tree. 988 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:04,920 Speaker 1: I had in my head. I don't know why I 989 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:06,399 Speaker 1: had in my head. He would be like, it would 990 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,360 Speaker 1: just be more of a dramatic sight. It looks exactly 991 00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,520 Speaker 1: like a deer bed, right. It just seems peculiar to 992 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,800 Speaker 1: have like a line curled up sleeping on the ground 993 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,520 Speaker 1: out in the open. They'd somehow be more like like 994 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,799 Speaker 1: a cave, you know, like a big crotch in a tree, which, 995 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:22,239 Speaker 1: in fact, he just like, I was gonna lay down 996 00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,520 Speaker 1: right here. I walked up sleep and one time, in 997 00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,560 Speaker 1: the middle of a logging road, I thought it was 998 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,040 Speaker 1: a dead deer. I was walking. It was pretty it 999 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 1: was like, you know, four thirty in the morning of 1000 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,720 Speaker 1: the summer, so it's it's pretty dark, but not pitch black. 1001 00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,719 Speaker 1: And I saw the thing laying in the road, and 1002 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,520 Speaker 1: I was scouting for an elk counting spot, and uh, 1003 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,080 Speaker 1: I'm walking up on it, and I'm just getting closer 1004 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: and closer, and I'm finally I'm like, you know, ten 1005 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,120 Speaker 1: yards away before it dawns on me that this thing 1006 00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 1: is it's a cougar, and its sound asleep, and it 1007 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,040 Speaker 1: rolled finally it rolls to its belly. It must have 1008 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,960 Speaker 1: heard me or whatever it rolls to its belly and 1009 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:57,759 Speaker 1: it just gives me a look for a couple of 1010 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,480 Speaker 1: seconds and bounds off the road. But what a weird thing. 1011 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,080 Speaker 1: It's just sleeping in a logging road and they just 1012 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,080 Speaker 1: laid down to sleep wherever. I guess, like a dear wood. 1013 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,120 Speaker 1: One of the ones I ran into spring bear hunting. 1014 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,279 Speaker 1: Um ran into it on a trail. It was coming 1015 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,120 Speaker 1: down the trail, run up the trail and he sees 1016 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,680 Speaker 1: us in books and runs on over to steep ledge 1017 00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,759 Speaker 1: and I ran over to the ledge to see, like 1018 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,400 Speaker 1: to watch him then run off through the woods. And 1019 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,560 Speaker 1: I'm watching watching, I'm thinking, how could that some bitch 1020 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,719 Speaker 1: be so fast that he's already clear of all this 1021 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,040 Speaker 1: area I can see? And eventually I looked down and 1022 00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 1: he just like feet away. Yeah, he's went and tucked 1023 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,600 Speaker 1: in under that little ledge. And I'm just standing there 1024 00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,440 Speaker 1: looking out over with no idea. He's just standing down 1025 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,640 Speaker 1: there looking at me. Do when it made eye contact 1026 00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,719 Speaker 1: him with me? Booked? Yeah, but you just can't. He's 1027 00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,200 Speaker 1: just like he's just like I got his way till 1028 00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,160 Speaker 1: this thing passes by, You get is like surprised, just 1029 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,520 Speaker 1: like when you visualize these things is now what you 1030 00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:01,399 Speaker 1: meant how you imagine them operating, you know, But as 1031 00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,200 Speaker 1: we're chasing the line that day, what else do you 1032 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,560 Speaker 1: what else happened that day in your mind that you remember. 1033 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,839 Speaker 1: Remember it got to be toward dark, and you guys 1034 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,960 Speaker 1: really wanted to get the dogs rounded up because it 1035 00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,560 Speaker 1: was so cold. Yeah, it was too cold. Um to 1036 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,440 Speaker 1: leave dogs out overnight for sure, which you hate to 1037 00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,480 Speaker 1: leave dogs out overnight, so you don't like to do that, 1038 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:23,120 Speaker 1: even if it's warm out with wolves and everything else. 1039 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,960 Speaker 1: Is just not a good idea at all. Um, So 1040 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,160 Speaker 1: we like, it would have to be a really unusual 1041 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,120 Speaker 1: circumstance to leave dogs out overnight. So um, we ended up. 1042 00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,000 Speaker 1: Remember we ended up in that nasty swamp and that 1043 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,200 Speaker 1: just had terrible losses in there. The cat has circled 1044 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,719 Speaker 1: and there was another cat in there, we think, and 1045 00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,840 Speaker 1: there's old tracks and fresh tracks, and the dogs just 1046 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,560 Speaker 1: really had a hard time moving through that. Once we 1047 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:52,919 Speaker 1: finally got them lined out, they got to that roaring river. 1048 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,560 Speaker 1: Remember the water was really high and it was going 1049 00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,640 Speaker 1: to be a very dangerous crossing and we're afraid that 1050 00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:59,240 Speaker 1: dogs were gonna get down in that, So we pulled 1051 00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,120 Speaker 1: them at glass light and then of course it's a 1052 00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,319 Speaker 1: whatever thirty miles snowmobi all ride in the freezing cold 1053 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:06,879 Speaker 1: to get back. So we don't want to be doing 1054 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,520 Speaker 1: that too late at night either. Um. So yeah, the 1055 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,440 Speaker 1: first day we spent I don't know how many miles 1056 00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,120 Speaker 1: we covered or how many of the dogs covered. I 1057 00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,640 Speaker 1: should have checked, um, but it was quite a I 1058 00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:19,680 Speaker 1: mean it was like I said, a traveling cat come 1059 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:21,680 Speaker 1: out of that high country. Yeah, I feel like they 1060 00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:26,640 Speaker 1: moved the track three miles. Yea. The next day we 1061 00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,319 Speaker 1: go back up there, and you guys didn't want to 1062 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,600 Speaker 1: go in and just go let the dogs go where 1063 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,960 Speaker 1: we quit the night before, because of that river. You 1064 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:35,000 Speaker 1: wanted to do more, kind of like trying to find 1065 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,320 Speaker 1: out if the cat moved more if you cross another 1066 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:42,080 Speaker 1: road right. And there was so damn any deer in there. 1067 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,439 Speaker 1: It was hard to like because there's so many deer 1068 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,880 Speaker 1: like beating trails everywhere. It was hard you realize you 1069 00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:51,160 Speaker 1: could miss line tracks. Well we did that costs us. Um. Yeah, 1070 00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,880 Speaker 1: we spent all day back in that swamp. You and 1071 00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:58,640 Speaker 1: I walked through there and found um, you know, cat 1072 00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:03,000 Speaker 1: tracks going every direction everywhere, and dog tracks tracks were 1073 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,520 Speaker 1: there some moose tracks were there, and dog tracks were 1074 00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,600 Speaker 1: everywhere with them. Um, they just didn't have a good 1075 00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,399 Speaker 1: track to follow. There's no obvious direction for them to go. Um. 1076 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,520 Speaker 1: And then when we found that out track, that, I mean, 1077 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,640 Speaker 1: that was the savior. Once we had that, we could 1078 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:21,480 Speaker 1: you know, I think that we were moving in the 1079 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:25,280 Speaker 1: right direction finally. And that was interesting because, uh, Bruce, 1080 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,040 Speaker 1: another hound has been Bruce. He checked some of the 1081 00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,279 Speaker 1: same areas a bunch times and eventually knew there must 1082 00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,000 Speaker 1: be an out track, and events you found an out track. 1083 00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:37,360 Speaker 1: And I'm telling you what, nine percent of American hunters 1084 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,600 Speaker 1: would not have found that track. No, it was I 1085 00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,520 Speaker 1: would found that track. It was on top of all 1086 00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,240 Speaker 1: those deer walking on I mean that deer, the deer 1087 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,520 Speaker 1: in there. It looked like a feed lot. There were 1088 00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,319 Speaker 1: so many things it did. It really did look like 1089 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,440 Speaker 1: a stockyard. So it looked at the fact that he 1090 00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,440 Speaker 1: like picked that track up on that ship kind of 1091 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,160 Speaker 1: blew my mind. You guys, I hung with Bruce a 1092 00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,160 Speaker 1: lot that day because I think that's when you guys 1093 00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,760 Speaker 1: were kind of walk in that one of that final 1094 00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,520 Speaker 1: kind of side of the box to make sure he 1095 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,920 Speaker 1: hadn't gone I don't know what direction that was south 1096 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,480 Speaker 1: maybe anyways, but I was with Bruce and I can 1097 00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:12,799 Speaker 1: tell you he ran that one section of the road 1098 00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,680 Speaker 1: half dozen't maybe even ten times until finally he just 1099 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,279 Speaker 1: kind of was sensing something and he told Gary and 1100 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,080 Speaker 1: I he was like, you guys, just stare right here, 1101 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,080 Speaker 1: don't do that stone we go around anymore because he's 1102 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,640 Speaker 1: starting to think like we're gonna cover up this out track. 1103 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:28,560 Speaker 1: And then, you know, I think it was one in 1104 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,160 Speaker 1: the afternoon when he when he finally cut that track. Yeah, 1105 00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:32,840 Speaker 1: I was getting on in the day when we finally 1106 00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,520 Speaker 1: figured that out. And the problem is it's a it 1107 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,680 Speaker 1: was a small area and you you know, you try 1108 00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:42,080 Speaker 1: to hem them in and do you think it's temmed 1109 00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:43,800 Speaker 1: into this small area? And then all of a sudden 1110 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:45,839 Speaker 1: you have dogs running all over the place in there, 1111 00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,920 Speaker 1: and you're thinking, are these dogs just absolutely worthless as 1112 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:51,640 Speaker 1: they got in there and they can't get it caught 1113 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,600 Speaker 1: or or yeah, but he was left and then came 1114 00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,160 Speaker 1: back in again and stuff like that. So it's confusing 1115 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,040 Speaker 1: a ship. But when he found that out track, you 1116 00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,319 Speaker 1: caught loose, then right away your dog's got confused up 1117 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,000 Speaker 1: the hill and you go up there, there's a giant 1118 00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,160 Speaker 1: freaking white dead white tail. Yeah. So they ran up 1119 00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,719 Speaker 1: with a few hundred yards and find that kill and 1120 00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,000 Speaker 1: again there's cat tracks all over Bex. He's been feeding 1121 00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:18,959 Speaker 1: on it. Um yeah, frozen, pretty much stripped clean, white tailed, 1122 00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:23,080 Speaker 1: but still some meat on the neck, neck twisted around 1123 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,000 Speaker 1: a bunch. Oh yeah, totally busted. And he killed him 1124 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,840 Speaker 1: like that, probably like you know, turned his neck and 1125 00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,640 Speaker 1: killed him, or in the process of dragging him all over, 1126 00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:33,840 Speaker 1: Holy hell, grabbed him. But he was probably going back 1127 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:37,120 Speaker 1: because that wasn't brand new. He's probably going back into 1128 00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,040 Speaker 1: some other line killed and he was checking out and 1129 00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:45,040 Speaker 1: he just went back to check on his frozen kill. Yeah. 1130 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,200 Speaker 1: And how often do you find kills chasing all the time? 1131 00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,120 Speaker 1: I mean, if you follow the line tracks very long, 1132 00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:55,360 Speaker 1: you're gonna find a kill. They're either eating on a 1133 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,280 Speaker 1: kill or they're about to go make a kill. Like 1134 00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,840 Speaker 1: if you fall around very long, you're gonna find something. Yeah. 1135 00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,880 Speaker 1: My friend Floyd, where he talks a lot about the 1136 00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,160 Speaker 1: reason he's always hoping to find a kill is because 1137 00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,520 Speaker 1: the cat might just lay up. Yeah, we had that 1138 00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:14,240 Speaker 1: last week. Um, we were hunting up there and uh, 1139 00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,360 Speaker 1: had a track that was just going all over the place, 1140 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,320 Speaker 1: circle and circling, and we had it hemmed in and 1141 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,320 Speaker 1: there's like a little narrow band like two hundred yards 1142 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,040 Speaker 1: that we hadn't checked. It's like, well, that cat, there's 1143 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:28,760 Speaker 1: either an outrack there that cats somewhere in there. So 1144 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,040 Speaker 1: Rick took off with the snow shoes on and took 1145 00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:33,320 Speaker 1: off walk in the last little bit of this place 1146 00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,640 Speaker 1: out and he gets on the radio and he's like, 1147 00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,040 Speaker 1: turn the dogs loose. I just jumped the cat off 1148 00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:41,080 Speaker 1: a kill. So he walked up on this cat and 1149 00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,959 Speaker 1: it was just laying on top of an elk. Yeah, 1150 00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,840 Speaker 1: and uh, we were only three hundred yards from him, 1151 00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:48,560 Speaker 1: so we opened all the dog boxes and they're all 1152 00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,440 Speaker 1: just like standing around like you know that, what do 1153 00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,040 Speaker 1: you want us to do? And Rick's holler and and 1154 00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,440 Speaker 1: finally they got the idea to go to him. And 1155 00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:57,640 Speaker 1: the minute they got to him, of course, they just 1156 00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:59,840 Speaker 1: blew up and ran the cat and had it treated 1157 00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:04,000 Speaker 1: with and you know four yards um. So yeah, I mean, 1158 00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,240 Speaker 1: you walk walk their tracks right far, you're gonna find 1159 00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,000 Speaker 1: a kill somewhere. It's amazing that those things a hundred 1160 00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,320 Speaker 1: forty pounds whatever you can kill those pounds. This is 1161 00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,600 Speaker 1: like a pound female. We just took pictures and let 1162 00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:18,960 Speaker 1: her go big, a nice mature female. You didn't put 1163 00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,600 Speaker 1: a collar on her. That was up at rix. We're 1164 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,000 Speaker 1: just okay, just I got you, I got you. What 1165 00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:30,880 Speaker 1: what kind of elk calf cow? Mature? Yeah, yeah, nine 1166 00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:36,200 Speaker 1: pound female killed that thing. So back to the one 1167 00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:38,920 Speaker 1: we got. You go up there and it was kind 1168 00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,120 Speaker 1: of a mess of tracks. Yeah, there's a lot of tracks. 1169 00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:44,320 Speaker 1: You messed around there a long time looking for the 1170 00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,720 Speaker 1: out tracks. That's like an interesting thing about running lines 1171 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:50,680 Speaker 1: is the dogs are doing so much of this, but 1172 00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,640 Speaker 1: there's certain things that dogs are never going to figure out. 1173 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,360 Speaker 1: Look if if you got a line and he kills 1174 00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,240 Speaker 1: a deer and he like leaves and goes on some 1175 00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,280 Speaker 1: big walk about, comes back, eats more of the deer 1176 01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,920 Speaker 1: goes out a big walk about, comes back, sleeps, eats, 1177 01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:06,760 Speaker 1: the deer goes back to some place he'd been the 1178 01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:09,640 Speaker 1: day before. It comes back to the carcass, and you 1179 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:13,040 Speaker 1: pick him up on one of those forays, right, and 1180 01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,600 Speaker 1: you trail him back into where all of a sudden 1181 01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,520 Speaker 1: he's coming back into like the center of the spokes 1182 01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,040 Speaker 1: on a wheel. Oh, I mean, the dogs has gotta 1183 01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,560 Speaker 1: be bewildered by it. And that's where like being an 1184 01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:29,240 Speaker 1: expert tracker, a human being, expert tracker needs to commit 1185 01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,760 Speaker 1: and do something deductive reasoning about what in the world 1186 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,600 Speaker 1: is going on here, and then find that track that 1187 01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:36,880 Speaker 1: seems the most fresh, because the dogs, like are good 1188 01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,160 Speaker 1: at knowing a fresh track, but they're already feeling like 1189 01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:43,760 Speaker 1: they're running it, you know, and they could be going backwards. 1190 01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean, they could be doing any number of things 1191 01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,400 Speaker 1: wrong because the dog don't look at the track and 1192 01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:49,560 Speaker 1: tell what way it's going, which is one of the 1193 01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,520 Speaker 1: things that makes one of the other two times I've 1194 01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,520 Speaker 1: gone down to hunt lions unsuccessfully in the desert in 1195 01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:58,080 Speaker 1: Arizona is there's not a lot of saying for them 1196 01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,880 Speaker 1: to leave tracks. There's a lot of rock and there's 1197 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,360 Speaker 1: no snow, and the dogs can't tell the way the 1198 01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,840 Speaker 1: lion is going, So right off the bat, there's even 1199 01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:09,560 Speaker 1: if the dog strikes it starts baying, there's a chance 1200 01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,400 Speaker 1: they're going in the wrong direction. Yeah, until you can 1201 01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,560 Speaker 1: find a track. And again that's where it winds up 1202 01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:16,800 Speaker 1: being that. That's why the handful of houndsman that I 1203 01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,520 Speaker 1: have countered, have been the best sign readers I've ever 1204 01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,919 Speaker 1: been around, because they find tracks no one's gonna find. Yeah, 1205 01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:24,360 Speaker 1: if you can, Floyd does it from the top of 1206 01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:28,160 Speaker 1: a damn mule. He finds tracks you'd never see if 1207 01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,440 Speaker 1: you were crawling on your hands and knees. It's just 1208 01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,439 Speaker 1: like there's like a you look at it so much, 1209 01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna treat very few cats if you can't find tracks, Like, 1210 01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:39,560 Speaker 1: if you can't identify tracks and figure out what's going 1211 01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:41,280 Speaker 1: on and when to pull the dogs and when to 1212 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,120 Speaker 1: help the dogs, you're just not gonna have any success. No, 1213 01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:46,439 Speaker 1: A lot of these tracks aren't like, oh yeah, big 1214 01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:49,400 Speaker 1: claws and ship. No, it's just like nothing. Like you 1215 01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,000 Speaker 1: might see the heel or just one part of a 1216 01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:56,200 Speaker 1: track or whatever, and the area is creamed with dog tracks. 1217 01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,240 Speaker 1: At a passing glance, there's a lot of similar to 1218 01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:02,280 Speaker 1: the passing. There's a lot of similarity between dog tracks 1219 01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,040 Speaker 1: and line tracks, even in size, right, you know, I 1220 01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,640 Speaker 1: mean like a passing similarity on dry ground for sure, 1221 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,440 Speaker 1: cat track cat feet aren't that big um in the snow, 1222 01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,120 Speaker 1: they leave a bigger track because they've got a lot 1223 01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:16,160 Speaker 1: of fur and they snowshoe out sometimes and things like that. 1224 01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:19,280 Speaker 1: But when you just see a cat step in fairly 1225 01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,800 Speaker 1: hard sand, their actual pads and toes aren't that big 1226 01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:27,600 Speaker 1: average average with being um, you know, three inches or something. 1227 01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:31,959 Speaker 1: They're not. Yeah, they're just not huge feet like people think. 1228 01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:35,560 Speaker 1: So you went up into that kill area and got 1229 01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:40,000 Speaker 1: that sorted out once once, did you at that point 1230 01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,360 Speaker 1: be like, oh, we'll catch this lion today. Well, I'm 1231 01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:48,640 Speaker 1: like that all the time, but I thought I knew 1232 01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:51,000 Speaker 1: that our chances just went way up. But it was 1233 01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,720 Speaker 1: late in the day that was the problem, and the 1234 01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:57,120 Speaker 1: cat was going you know, weird. We still hadn't gotten 1235 01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,920 Speaker 1: him jumped, but we were tracking him straight up that mountain, 1236 01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:02,840 Speaker 1: up that deep canyon, which is good because he was 1237 01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,560 Speaker 1: finally leaving this that's what we're possibly leaving, this cluster 1238 01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:10,000 Speaker 1: fuck of ger tracks and line tracks and dead deer 1239 01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,200 Speaker 1: and lion beds. We wanted an actual out track, and 1240 01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:15,400 Speaker 1: that the way the dogs moved that. I don't know 1241 01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:19,240 Speaker 1: if you remember the noise and how fast they were going, 1242 01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:21,640 Speaker 1: but when they're doing that, you have a pretty good 1243 01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,920 Speaker 1: idea that they're on like today's track. Yeah, that's the thing, 1244 01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,320 Speaker 1: is that what these guys do uh. We would periodically 1245 01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:33,160 Speaker 1: see a line track and you kind of check it 1246 01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:36,000 Speaker 1: out walking a little bit, you know, try to make 1247 01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,000 Speaker 1: some ideas about how big it might be and what 1248 01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,800 Speaker 1: the snow like, whether it had time for even there's 1249 01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:44,360 Speaker 1: no new snowfall, Snow is always blowing down out of 1250 01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,080 Speaker 1: the trees, so you're looking at like, has snow had 1251 01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:48,840 Speaker 1: time to blow in there? Has the track kind of 1252 01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,720 Speaker 1: eroded from wind? And the thing I would watch you guys, 1253 01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:55,040 Speaker 1: do you just take a dog? They put his nose 1254 01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,120 Speaker 1: in there, and you could tell a lot about how 1255 01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:01,320 Speaker 1: old that track is by his enthusiasm, right, Yeah. They 1256 01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,320 Speaker 1: seem to kind of know like, oh, he's showing me 1257 01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,680 Speaker 1: a track. Oh yeah, no, that they know exactly what 1258 01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:09,440 Speaker 1: we're doing. And you can start to learn your dogs too, um, 1259 01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,520 Speaker 1: especially like Whisper, my old dog. I've been doing that 1260 01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:14,680 Speaker 1: with her for seven or eight years now, so I 1261 01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:16,360 Speaker 1: know what I'm going to get on a fresh track. 1262 01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,400 Speaker 1: And if she just loses her mind, it's like, all right, 1263 01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna get this cat right away. It's super fresh. 1264 01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:23,840 Speaker 1: If she's sort of tapping about it but wants to 1265 01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,280 Speaker 1: take it, it's probably you know, it's probably that day's track. 1266 01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:29,440 Speaker 1: But if she starts moving it silently, then it's like, 1267 01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:31,600 Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna have some work cut out for us. Now, 1268 01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,680 Speaker 1: Like a humor, you would check this track out there 1269 01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,480 Speaker 1: to figure out pretty quick, like what the dog, how 1270 01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:40,520 Speaker 1: the dog reacts, And not all dogs are created equal. 1271 01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:42,640 Speaker 1: Some of them just freak when they get one particle 1272 01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:45,200 Speaker 1: to cougar center, but they learned to be more skeptical 1273 01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,560 Speaker 1: when they get older. At least that one didn't. No, 1274 01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:50,920 Speaker 1: not necessarily, you just learn, you learn how they respect 1275 01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,200 Speaker 1: their personality. Yeah, so when you got that sorted out 1276 01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:56,960 Speaker 1: by that book, they took off, oh yeah, and Whisper, 1277 01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:59,919 Speaker 1: Tipsy and Gus were on that chase. And they're fast dog, 1278 01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:03,800 Speaker 1: especially gust and Tipsy. Um. And when they start on 1279 01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,560 Speaker 1: a fresh track that they're gonna get that cat moving 1280 01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:10,120 Speaker 1: and they're gonna catch him, um pretty quick. They're super athletic, 1281 01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:12,480 Speaker 1: fast dogs. Um. So that was the right group to 1282 01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:14,800 Speaker 1: have with that cat, especially the way he acted once 1283 01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:19,160 Speaker 1: he was treated. Um. Yeah, when they lined out from 1284 01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:21,240 Speaker 1: the kill though, I had a pretty good feeling that 1285 01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:22,920 Speaker 1: we were going to get him up. I just did. 1286 01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:26,000 Speaker 1: I was hoping it was still because like you know 1287 01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,280 Speaker 1: what we're like right at the summers, right at the 1288 01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,360 Speaker 1: winter solstice, so you had like very short days. And 1289 01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:33,520 Speaker 1: that's the thing. You know, everybody you know who hunts 1290 01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:36,280 Speaker 1: waterfowl his eyes very aware of like legal shooting light. 1291 01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:39,560 Speaker 1: But you know it spelled out Alaska doesn't do it 1292 01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:41,360 Speaker 1: because the days are so weird and the light periods 1293 01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,480 Speaker 1: of the photo periods are so strange. But yeah, I mean, 1294 01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:46,000 Speaker 1: you gotta find that thing. You can find it a 1295 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:49,080 Speaker 1: perfect daylight, but you can't shoot, right, I should say 1296 01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:51,600 Speaker 1: perfect daylight. But you could find it in light that 1297 01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:53,840 Speaker 1: you could shoot him, but it'll be illegal for you 1298 01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:55,480 Speaker 1: to do so. Yeah, for sure. It's different than like 1299 01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:57,800 Speaker 1: a deer that's a hundred and fifty yards away or 1300 01:05:57,840 --> 01:05:59,800 Speaker 1: something that at the same time you wouldn't be able 1301 01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:01,800 Speaker 1: to make the shot of cats in a tree. I mean, yeah, 1302 01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna find a way shoot it if you want 1303 01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:06,960 Speaker 1: it to um, but you can't. But you can't put 1304 01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,720 Speaker 1: artificial light out it either. Yeah, so not that was matic. 1305 01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:12,800 Speaker 1: You can't legally do it at dark anyway. It's not 1306 01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:14,960 Speaker 1: like predator hunt like Kyo hunting area where you can 1307 01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:20,560 Speaker 1: use the artificial light. You can't use the artificial light. No. Um. Yeah. 1308 01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:23,000 Speaker 1: So once the once they lined out like that, we 1309 01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:24,720 Speaker 1: had it was a little bit of a race against 1310 01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:26,240 Speaker 1: time to to get that cat in a tree and 1311 01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:28,480 Speaker 1: make sure we can get to him, which you know, 1312 01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:30,480 Speaker 1: we had to drop back down off that mountain and 1313 01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:32,800 Speaker 1: snow machine all the way back up to the top 1314 01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:35,920 Speaker 1: and then come down the mountain to him. And we 1315 01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,720 Speaker 1: got we got to that thing. Now, it had snowed 1316 01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:41,440 Speaker 1: a lot, and it was like a like a fine 1317 01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,200 Speaker 1: fine powder and it was not a breath of wind. 1318 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:48,080 Speaker 1: So all that snow is hanging in the trees and 1319 01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,080 Speaker 1: it has just been like consistently very cold, consistently not windy. 1320 01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,920 Speaker 1: So like the entire snowload, when you're under like a 1321 01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:56,280 Speaker 1: canopy of big trees, it would be almost like bare ground, 1322 01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, just like a dusting of snow that all 1323 01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:00,560 Speaker 1: that snow is still up the tree. And in that 1324 01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:04,200 Speaker 1: line we show up there and he's up in the tree. 1325 01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:06,080 Speaker 1: On how high he was, he's pretty high upen the tree, 1326 01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:08,280 Speaker 1: but he was on that steep hill where you're almost 1327 01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,560 Speaker 1: looking straight at him. Yeah, I was eyeball to eyeball 1328 01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:14,360 Speaker 1: with him coming down the mountain toward him. And he 1329 01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,080 Speaker 1: was fine with the dogs blown. We showed up and 1330 01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,320 Speaker 1: he pitched out of that tree, and it's like it's 1331 01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,040 Speaker 1: stuck in my mind as one of the most surreal 1332 01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:24,560 Speaker 1: things I've seen, next to a time I had a 1333 01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:28,960 Speaker 1: mountain go fall off a cliff and standing above it 1334 01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:31,480 Speaker 1: watching it go was like locking in my mind. But 1335 01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:35,360 Speaker 1: the way that thing just bailed out of that tree 1336 01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:40,320 Speaker 1: and sent down a shower of that powdered snow and 1337 01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:43,160 Speaker 1: hit the ground at a full tilt run, it didn't 1338 01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:47,160 Speaker 1: mean anything. Time didn't like, yeah, it was just like 1339 01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:49,200 Speaker 1: like he does it every day if he needs to. 1340 01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:52,800 Speaker 1: He's sort of like rode the bows and then this 1341 01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:55,600 Speaker 1: sort of like cascade of powder, you know, almost like 1342 01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:58,720 Speaker 1: just snow everywhere. Man, you couldn't have planned it better, though, 1343 01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:01,520 Speaker 1: to get away from those dogs. I can imagine being 1344 01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,920 Speaker 1: a dog underneath there and just getting all that powder 1345 01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,240 Speaker 1: in your face. But he bailed out over the dogs. 1346 01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:07,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Now he ran right, and then he hit 1347 01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:10,080 Speaker 1: a downward slope and just hit it like at a 1348 01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:12,600 Speaker 1: full tilt run. He was going as fast as he could. 1349 01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:16,719 Speaker 1: And the bigger problem was he was running his tracks 1350 01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:21,240 Speaker 1: from about five minutes earlier and I thought we'd lose 1351 01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:22,960 Speaker 1: a line, because then he was headed right back down 1352 01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,240 Speaker 1: into the into where he came out of and it 1353 01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:27,760 Speaker 1: was getting followed his own followed, his own set of 1354 01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:31,120 Speaker 1: tracks down. We have never lost a lion that way, 1355 01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,880 Speaker 1: and I was thinking that that might be the first time. 1356 01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:36,040 Speaker 1: And it was gonna be because you guys, all the 1357 01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:38,080 Speaker 1: time we're telling me, oh, yeah, he might jump the tree, 1358 01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,679 Speaker 1: but he'll he'll only go three gonna be we started 1359 01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,960 Speaker 1: chasing that thing. Like a mile later, I'm like, somebody 1360 01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:45,160 Speaker 1: just still running. Yeah. Even I looked over and I 1361 01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:46,800 Speaker 1: was like, Oh, I don't worry about it, will be. Well, 1362 01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:53,400 Speaker 1: haven't treated four hundred yards? And then oh yeah, and 1363 01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:57,200 Speaker 1: he gets in another tree. We show up there and 1364 01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:00,599 Speaker 1: you can't. You can't shoot the lion in the tree 1365 01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:04,160 Speaker 1: with the dogs on the loose, because you don't want 1366 01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:05,439 Speaker 1: the lion to come down out of the tree and 1367 01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:07,559 Speaker 1: fight the dogs, right, yeah, you don't want to blow 1368 01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,880 Speaker 1: him out of the trade of the dogs. Plus you know, 1369 01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:15,120 Speaker 1: the time, you have time for you know, people to 1370 01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,800 Speaker 1: get pictures, and you get the dogs leashed and tied 1371 01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:20,720 Speaker 1: back where you want them, and you plan this thing 1372 01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,519 Speaker 1: so it's a very controlled situation most of the time 1373 01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:26,160 Speaker 1: with your cat, it wasn't he didn't want to stay 1374 01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:28,360 Speaker 1: up at all. No, he bailed out of that tree 1375 01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:32,679 Speaker 1: in an amazing shower of snow. And then that time 1376 01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:34,920 Speaker 1: he did, like you were saying, when three yards and 1377 01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,559 Speaker 1: climbed up another tree. We got in there right at dark, 1378 01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:41,080 Speaker 1: and he did not seem like he was gonna stay 1379 01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:44,040 Speaker 1: putting that tree. And when I was thinking about all this, 1380 01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,120 Speaker 1: like when I was thinking about lion hunting, going into 1381 01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:49,120 Speaker 1: a lion hunt, there's always this idea that and people 1382 01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:51,000 Speaker 1: say it all the time, people who who think that, 1383 01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,280 Speaker 1: you know, would ever have like a misguided opinion that 1384 01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:57,160 Speaker 1: there's like no challenge of lion hunting because they think 1385 01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:01,639 Speaker 1: of like, in their mind, the hunting is the shot, right, Yeah, 1386 01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:04,080 Speaker 1: there's like the challenge and honey is making the shot. 1387 01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:08,040 Speaker 1: But the challenge in lion hunting is reads finding a 1388 01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:09,760 Speaker 1: line in the first dame in place, which is like 1389 01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,400 Speaker 1: again people like, oh, we caught a track, and it 1390 01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:14,040 Speaker 1: sort of seems like, oh, yeah, you could a track, 1391 01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:16,439 Speaker 1: easy peasy. It's not. No, it's not. It's not like 1392 01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:18,240 Speaker 1: finding a deer track. You know, there's a line at 1393 01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:20,519 Speaker 1: the other end of the track once you find it. 1394 01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:23,519 Speaker 1: But finding the track can be tough, and we've had 1395 01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,639 Speaker 1: we've had weeks where we didn't find a line track. Yeah, 1396 01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:31,080 Speaker 1: when it's cold and they're lockdown on winter range and 1397 01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:34,320 Speaker 1: they're just not moving very much. We've like literally gone 1398 01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,439 Speaker 1: an entire week without cutting a track that we could run. 1399 01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:41,040 Speaker 1: So it's not you know, it's not necessarily easy to 1400 01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:42,760 Speaker 1: find a track, although we were finding quite a few 1401 01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:46,080 Speaker 1: while you were there, And um, you know, the cat 1402 01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:48,280 Speaker 1: population is pretty good up there, so finding a track 1403 01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:51,320 Speaker 1: isn't necessarily the hardest part up there. But um, it 1404 01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:54,760 Speaker 1: was the densest lion side I've ever seen in that area. Well, 1405 01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:56,920 Speaker 1: but we caught him on that move too. We caught 1406 01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:01,679 Speaker 1: him perfect conditions, just coming in a lot of deer. 1407 01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:05,519 Speaker 1: But and like in anticipating going on a line hut, 1408 01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,519 Speaker 1: a successful line hut, I'd always been like I really 1409 01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:14,840 Speaker 1: was interested in participating in and be watching right, experiencing 1410 01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:18,000 Speaker 1: how hound has been work, which I've developed a lot 1411 01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:22,360 Speaker 1: of respect for the sign reading capability of a good houndsman, right, 1412 01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:25,519 Speaker 1: the athleticism of the dogs, Like just see all this 1413 01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,240 Speaker 1: play out. I always had a little bit of trepidation 1414 01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,240 Speaker 1: or you know, like a little bit uneasy about that. 1415 01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:35,280 Speaker 1: You'd get here and here's this this like amazing animal 1416 01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:37,160 Speaker 1: in a tree that you don't get to really see. 1417 01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:39,240 Speaker 1: You don't get to really ever look at him. And 1418 01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,559 Speaker 1: you'd find a tree and the time would go by, 1419 01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:44,680 Speaker 1: and you almost became like familiar with the lion in 1420 01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:48,000 Speaker 1: some way, and that I was afraid that, um, I'm 1421 01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:49,680 Speaker 1: not afraid now that I was like, not that I'm 1422 01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:52,760 Speaker 1: afraid of myself arriving at any kind of conclusion, but 1423 01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:55,320 Speaker 1: I was open to the idea that I would find 1424 01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:57,840 Speaker 1: the lion, you would catch the lion, and then I 1425 01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:59,840 Speaker 1: would be like, man, I don't wanna like this is 1426 01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,400 Speaker 1: I'm good now. That was my lion hunt. No need 1427 01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:04,880 Speaker 1: to get a gun involved in this. But I think 1428 01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:10,439 Speaker 1: that after like after jumping it out of the two 1429 01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,200 Speaker 1: trees and then finding the third tree right at dark 1430 01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:14,920 Speaker 1: and he was not gonna stay in a tree, it 1431 01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:18,120 Speaker 1: wounded up being like a snapshot. Let's get there was 1432 01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:20,559 Speaker 1: no sort of like thinking about it. You don't want 1433 01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:23,439 Speaker 1: to being like there he is, I m you know, 1434 01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,400 Speaker 1: And it wasn't I had in my head there's gonna 1435 01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,200 Speaker 1: be this sort of big like a like emotional wrestling 1436 01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:31,599 Speaker 1: match about like like everybody says, like shooting the line 1437 01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:33,599 Speaker 1: up a tree. There's a story I told a hunter times. 1438 01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:37,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell one more time. Um. I got a 1439 01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:42,840 Speaker 1: friend who who built this dear blind that he calls 1440 01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:46,320 Speaker 1: the condo. Okay, and he bought a bunch of old 1441 01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:51,240 Speaker 1: pulp land and he and he built uh blind. You 1442 01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,880 Speaker 1: can pull in a park inside a garage and then 1443 01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:56,639 Speaker 1: you go upstairs and it's the blind and it's wrap 1444 01:12:56,680 --> 01:13:05,880 Speaker 1: around benches, sleds okay, rolling off his chairs. Electricity and 1445 01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:09,519 Speaker 1: radiating out from the condo are like like laid out 1446 01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:13,240 Speaker 1: like Washington d c are spokes of shooting lanes planted 1447 01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:16,439 Speaker 1: as food plots, so you're in the center of the 1448 01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,360 Speaker 1: wheel and there are spokes going out. They have yardage 1449 01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:25,000 Speaker 1: markers on them. Okay. And he's like made the desert 1450 01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:27,559 Speaker 1: bloom out here where he's got like deer in a 1451 01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:30,599 Speaker 1: place that traditionally wouldn't have shipped for deer, like pool land, 1452 01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:34,680 Speaker 1: um in the southeast. But he like these all these 1453 01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:37,920 Speaker 1: food plots, just deer just come in. Okay. We're sitting 1454 01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:41,280 Speaker 1: up in the condo seeing if some buck did you 1455 01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:43,840 Speaker 1: know they know about by name right would show up. 1456 01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:46,439 Speaker 1: I'm telling them about how I'm going to go out 1457 01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:48,640 Speaker 1: to hunt lions in Arizona, and I think at that 1458 01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:49,960 Speaker 1: time was the second time I was going to go. 1459 01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:52,360 Speaker 1: And I'm telling him, man, you know, it's just like 1460 01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:57,000 Speaker 1: really frustrating because there's no snow, so you you gotta 1461 01:13:57,040 --> 01:13:58,759 Speaker 1: like just take out and just kind of free cast 1462 01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:00,639 Speaker 1: with the dogs and hopes that the dogs are gonna 1463 01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:04,080 Speaker 1: smell a track and make the right noise that the 1464 01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:06,719 Speaker 1: dog's owners like, that's not a bobcat, that's a lion. 1465 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,719 Speaker 1: They're gonna take off. You're gonna do some deduction about 1466 01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,400 Speaker 1: like how you know how lions move through the landscape, 1467 01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:16,000 Speaker 1: try to figure out what way the lions going. Then 1468 01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,800 Speaker 1: you're gonna follows dogs studying the ground for a freaking 1469 01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,040 Speaker 1: track to figure out if you went the wrong way 1470 01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:23,479 Speaker 1: or not. Then you got a size of thing because 1471 01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:25,040 Speaker 1: you don't want to run a female. You're trying to 1472 01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:28,519 Speaker 1: run a mail and it could be a bobcat and 1473 01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:30,439 Speaker 1: all the ship going on right, and you don't know 1474 01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:34,000 Speaker 1: when the thing came through anyways. And then I'm telling 1475 01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,000 Speaker 1: them all this and in the end, you know he's 1476 01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:38,120 Speaker 1: standing there and like in his swiveled off his chair. 1477 01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,120 Speaker 1: I'm saying, I just don't see the challenge and shooting 1478 01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:44,120 Speaker 1: some line out of a tree. You know, it's like 1479 01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,439 Speaker 1: so much like a perspective issue because I'm like, well 1480 01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:47,960 Speaker 1: a lot of guys might look up what we're doing 1481 01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,839 Speaker 1: right now and just really failed to see the challenge 1482 01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:56,479 Speaker 1: of shooting white tails out of a house interesting. But 1483 01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:59,040 Speaker 1: it's like a perspective issue. But it was messing with 1484 01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:01,479 Speaker 1: my mind this side. Do you like you're gonna like 1485 01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:03,519 Speaker 1: shoot it out of a tree, which is sort of 1486 01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:08,040 Speaker 1: like a very loaded like there's fish in the barrel 1487 01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:11,080 Speaker 1: and there's ship the tree, right, I mean, it's not again, 1488 01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:13,120 Speaker 1: it's not about the shot. So you even told me 1489 01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:15,880 Speaker 1: that you said something interesting interesting to me to where 1490 01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:18,519 Speaker 1: you were. I called you and I was like just 1491 01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:20,360 Speaker 1: trying to figure out, you know what, Like I'm like, 1492 01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,280 Speaker 1: you know, this is a goofy question, but what do 1493 01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:26,840 Speaker 1: you imagine total for a firearm? You know, because I'm 1494 01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:30,840 Speaker 1: thinking it's gonna bring like a light caliber sculped rifle. 1495 01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:34,920 Speaker 1: And you had said something to me like about you've 1496 01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:38,280 Speaker 1: you've seen it happen, but you had like an opinion 1497 01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:43,240 Speaker 1: about bowl bowl hunting lions. Yeah, that's a weird thing. 1498 01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,559 Speaker 1: And I don't know, I mean whatever. People are good 1499 01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:48,400 Speaker 1: with their bows, and bows are super effective. When people 1500 01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,160 Speaker 1: shoot a line with a bow, it dies in the 1501 01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:53,240 Speaker 1: tree and it comes out and you know, it works. Um. 1502 01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:55,880 Speaker 1: But it's weird to me when somebody goes on a 1503 01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:59,960 Speaker 1: hound hunt and like enters their cat and the Pope 1504 01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:02,240 Speaker 1: Young record book because they got it with a bow. 1505 01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:07,040 Speaker 1: Yeah that's what you said to me, you dogs. Yeah, 1506 01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:10,599 Speaker 1: you know, it's like like snuck up on it. It's 1507 01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,040 Speaker 1: bed and shot it or something that the shot isn't 1508 01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:16,679 Speaker 1: what should matter, Like the getting has already happened. Yeah, 1509 01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:20,920 Speaker 1: it's got like you got it, it's caught. Um you know. 1510 01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:25,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, pulling the trigger on the cat. It's sort 1511 01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,760 Speaker 1: of the whatever, the anti chimactic part of that. Yeah, 1512 01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:29,920 Speaker 1: I thought it would be. But it want to be 1513 01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:33,320 Speaker 1: in on this yourular situation. It wanted feeling very different 1514 01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,920 Speaker 1: than what I imagined it. Yeah, you know, and and 1515 01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:37,960 Speaker 1: then I was like it was I was like so happy. 1516 01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:42,240 Speaker 1: Um yeah, I was like really I was really happy 1517 01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:45,040 Speaker 1: to get the line. It was. It was funny because 1518 01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:47,360 Speaker 1: I I'll say to people, you know, people be like, oh, 1519 01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:49,360 Speaker 1: you're gonna I'm like, you know, I said, that's probably 1520 01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:52,160 Speaker 1: like the first line I ever got, and I would 1521 01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,640 Speaker 1: guess I'm imagining it would be my last line. And 1522 01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:58,479 Speaker 1: people like, oh, yeah, well you didn't like it or 1523 01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:00,720 Speaker 1: something bad happened. I'm like, no, I just it was 1524 01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:05,200 Speaker 1: like a thing I really wanted to do. Um I 1525 01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:08,479 Speaker 1: did it. It's just different than hunting deer milk. I think, yeah, 1526 01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:10,719 Speaker 1: I think if you went, you know, you're always welcome 1527 01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:12,760 Speaker 1: to come out and chase cats with us. I think 1528 01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:16,080 Speaker 1: the next cat you tree, you're gonna look at very differently. 1529 01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:18,920 Speaker 1: And that's probably, you know. I have a hard time 1530 01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:23,840 Speaker 1: explaining that, Like people always like assume that hound hunters 1531 01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:27,720 Speaker 1: are just killing every cat they tree, and now you know, 1532 01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:30,519 Speaker 1: the shot is like you said, it's just like whatever. 1533 01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:32,000 Speaker 1: I don't care if that cat ties or not. I 1534 01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:34,200 Speaker 1: don't want it to die really because I'd rather chase 1535 01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:36,720 Speaker 1: it again next year. And yeah, yeah, get pictures of 1536 01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:37,880 Speaker 1: it and get a look at it and just let 1537 01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:40,760 Speaker 1: it go. Yeah. I was surprised talking to your friend 1538 01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:45,840 Speaker 1: Bruce all surprised about that the quota systems like the 1539 01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:49,519 Speaker 1: idea of managing lions as a big game animal and 1540 01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:54,800 Speaker 1: not managing them as a like varmint right, because some 1541 01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:57,400 Speaker 1: states still do have like three sixty five day a 1542 01:17:57,479 --> 01:17:59,800 Speaker 1: year season and they manage them. They don't manage them. 1543 01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:04,600 Speaker 1: They're like get them off the landscape to avoid livestock depredation. 1544 01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:08,480 Speaker 1: And that's kind of their approach. Some states Idaho, Montana, 1545 01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,800 Speaker 1: some other ones management as a big game animal where 1546 01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:15,720 Speaker 1: they're making like population estimates. Those lions are famously hard 1547 01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:19,439 Speaker 1: to count. They make population estimates on lines and they 1548 01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:23,440 Speaker 1: try to figure out how we can maintain those populations 1549 01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:26,200 Speaker 1: or in some cases probably you can grow those populations. 1550 01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,040 Speaker 1: And they do it with having female quotas, right, or 1551 01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:31,080 Speaker 1: permit draws. There's a lot of areas of Montana you 1552 01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,800 Speaker 1: gotta draw damn lion tag. Oh yeah, it takes time too, 1553 01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,960 Speaker 1: and it's like they're competitive. Yeah, Like there's are I 1554 01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:38,600 Speaker 1: put I put it in for before this hunt. I 1555 01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:39,800 Speaker 1: put it in for an area a couple of times, 1556 01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:41,479 Speaker 1: did draw the tag. A matter of fact, I put 1557 01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:43,479 Speaker 1: in for lines three times in certain areas and never 1558 01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:45,800 Speaker 1: draw teg. There's also some over the counter ones, but 1559 01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:48,080 Speaker 1: some of those over the counter areas have a female 1560 01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:51,960 Speaker 1: quota in a total and a total cat quota. That's 1561 01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:54,519 Speaker 1: a good way to manage them. Um. You know, I 1562 01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:58,120 Speaker 1: hound hunters have pushed all those quotas, and that's that's 1563 01:18:57,920 --> 01:18:59,519 Speaker 1: that's what I'm trying to get to tell me, Like 1564 01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:01,720 Speaker 1: the history that that came from. Hell, Yeah, that was 1565 01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:04,080 Speaker 1: an anti hunters that wanted a female quota or a 1566 01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:07,320 Speaker 1: hound quota or the cat quota. It was hound hunters 1567 01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:11,040 Speaker 1: and the reason was the people were killing too many 1568 01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:14,479 Speaker 1: cats and we wanted to have something to chase. Um. 1569 01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:16,200 Speaker 1: So you know, we kind of led the way on 1570 01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:20,200 Speaker 1: that protection and it worked. Like there are places that 1571 01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:24,759 Speaker 1: have huge deer elk herds and really healthy line populations 1572 01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:27,120 Speaker 1: where you can expect to cut a track every day. 1573 01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:29,960 Speaker 1: Now I put a picture of the line I killed. 1574 01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:32,920 Speaker 1: It was like it was like a good representative example 1575 01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:34,720 Speaker 1: of a male line. It was like a like a yeah, 1576 01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:36,640 Speaker 1: not a nice cat. So I put a picture of 1577 01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:41,040 Speaker 1: the one up there in uh on Instagram and it 1578 01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:45,000 Speaker 1: got you know, like over like well over nine thousand 1579 01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:47,280 Speaker 1: likes on Instagram. So it's like a lot of people 1580 01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:49,439 Speaker 1: looked at it and they're like, oh, that's cool. You 1581 01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:52,720 Speaker 1: really gotta line. Um, there's a lot of like not 1582 01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:55,120 Speaker 1: as the blowback, but a lot of people being like 1583 01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:59,200 Speaker 1: really like wanting to know more. Are you going to 1584 01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:02,639 Speaker 1: eat that big one? Why are you holding it up 1585 01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:06,240 Speaker 1: like that? Okay, so a guy was like, you're not 1586 01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:08,720 Speaker 1: a guy and this is funny. Um My wife even 1587 01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:10,360 Speaker 1: pointed something out because she was kind of looking through 1588 01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:13,679 Speaker 1: him because she's was conflicted about this whole thing too. 1589 01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:16,640 Speaker 1: Uh where people like, why would you hold it up 1590 01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:18,479 Speaker 1: like that? Like you don't strike me as a big 1591 01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:22,840 Speaker 1: like trophy shot gripping grand guy. They're like, wow, that's 1592 01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:24,800 Speaker 1: not true because I put up all the time with 1593 01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,439 Speaker 1: people with animals all the time. You're just viewing this 1594 01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:33,400 Speaker 1: differently because what it is, you know, and people like 1595 01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:35,360 Speaker 1: being like, why do you why do people pick the 1596 01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:37,600 Speaker 1: line up and hold like that? It seems like disrespectful, 1597 01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:42,960 Speaker 1: Like how else do you I understand? I mean I can, 1598 01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:45,120 Speaker 1: Like the guy was like, where does that come from? 1599 01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:47,519 Speaker 1: Why do people hold lines up by the armpits? Because 1600 01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:49,840 Speaker 1: because just when they're laying on the ground, you can't 1601 01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:51,720 Speaker 1: tell what's going on, that's right. It's the more it 1602 01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:55,640 Speaker 1: is definitely like the traditional whatever you want to call 1603 01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:57,559 Speaker 1: hero shot, whatever you call it, you know it's like 1604 01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:59,519 Speaker 1: grabbing a deer by the antlers and standing back and 1605 01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:01,760 Speaker 1: taking your sure. But I think people like people, A 1606 01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:03,519 Speaker 1: lot of people wanted it to be that I was 1607 01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:05,960 Speaker 1: super sad that I got a line. I'm like, if 1608 01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,920 Speaker 1: I was super sad that I got anything, I wouldn't 1609 01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:12,639 Speaker 1: go do it right. It's like you, I set myself 1610 01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:15,400 Speaker 1: out to do something, I'm gonna do it. Looking forward 1611 01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:18,720 Speaker 1: to having the lions rug, I'm looking forward. I'd i'd 1612 01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:22,519 Speaker 1: eaten three damn lions with i'd ever killing one. Yeah, 1613 01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:24,800 Speaker 1: Like guys would give me lines or got a line 1614 01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:26,479 Speaker 1: met one time I got a whole line from a guy, 1615 01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:28,240 Speaker 1: So I'd eating a bunch of line. It was like 1616 01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:31,200 Speaker 1: I was entering unfamiliar territory there. So I'm looking forward 1617 01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:33,640 Speaker 1: to having, you know, the line meatould again. It's not 1618 01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:35,479 Speaker 1: like hundreds of pounds of line meat, but it's like 1619 01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:38,000 Speaker 1: a novelty. It's a really nice break from red meat 1620 01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:40,160 Speaker 1: that you get off deer elk. So like looking forward 1621 01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:43,040 Speaker 1: to that, looking forward to the experience. I'm in an 1622 01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:46,439 Speaker 1: area where lions are like well managed through a season structure. 1623 01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:49,320 Speaker 1: There's a lot of lines, But people like I wanted 1624 01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:51,160 Speaker 1: it to be that you were real bummed out that 1625 01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:53,880 Speaker 1: you got a line. And if there is a thing 1626 01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:56,080 Speaker 1: in honey where there's like a remorse factor now and then, 1627 01:21:56,240 --> 01:21:58,600 Speaker 1: or like like there's like a there's a kind of 1628 01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:01,160 Speaker 1: a solemn thing with doing it. But I think this 1629 01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:06,160 Speaker 1: idea that that um that you would anyways, why why 1630 01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:07,519 Speaker 1: would you want to go do something that made you 1631 01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:10,160 Speaker 1: so depressed. I was like happy to get the lion. 1632 01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:12,800 Speaker 1: So I'm happily holding up the line. I'm not gonna 1633 01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:15,600 Speaker 1: like pretend to be all like, you know, caught in 1634 01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:18,559 Speaker 1: prayer over this dead lion, as though I did some 1635 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:22,000 Speaker 1: horrendous thing like ran someone's dog over with my car. 1636 01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:24,719 Speaker 1: It just wasn't like that. It's like I intentionally set 1637 01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:28,320 Speaker 1: out to get this line. I'm happy about getting the line. 1638 01:22:28,520 --> 01:22:30,920 Speaker 1: I want people to see the lion. I'm gonna hold 1639 01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,640 Speaker 1: it up and be like, check out this line. The 1640 01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:36,360 Speaker 1: same way when I got married, I was real happy 1641 01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:38,400 Speaker 1: to haven't gotten married to my wife and we had 1642 01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:41,639 Speaker 1: a dude, they're taking pictures of us being married because 1643 01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:44,439 Speaker 1: it was like a good thing that we planned out 1644 01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:47,280 Speaker 1: and it happened, and we were happy it happened. But 1645 01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:49,960 Speaker 1: it just killed some people to be that there's a 1646 01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:54,639 Speaker 1: dude happy with the lion. People are strange about lions, 1647 01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:57,120 Speaker 1: lions predators in general. I may imagine if he were 1648 01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:59,280 Speaker 1: doing with the wolf right, and you would have heard 1649 01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:00,559 Speaker 1: the same thing. It would have in the same thing. 1650 01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:04,240 Speaker 1: Just predators that are or I don't I hate to 1651 01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:07,599 Speaker 1: even call it, like a non traditional game animal, but whatever. 1652 01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:11,040 Speaker 1: People have been eating lions since people on lions co existed. 1653 01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:13,639 Speaker 1: There's a couple of things people trip up about. They're like, 1654 01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:16,680 Speaker 1: I can't imagine eating another predator. And I think that 1655 01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:20,120 Speaker 1: they're saying something different because they're like, you know, we're um, 1656 01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:22,880 Speaker 1: we're om divorce. Yeah, they're a predator, but I don't 1657 01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:25,040 Speaker 1: think you really don't want to hone them because it 1658 01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:29,320 Speaker 1: consumes meat. Like, I don't think that's really what you're 1659 01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:32,439 Speaker 1: talking about. All the people say like, oh, they're so old, 1660 01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:37,400 Speaker 1: but old like a bull elk, a big giant bull 1661 01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:43,840 Speaker 1: elk is potentially gonna be older than like a cat 1662 01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:46,639 Speaker 1: that one would hunt for and get because you guys 1663 01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:49,040 Speaker 1: estimated based on toothwaar and other things that the lion 1664 01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:52,560 Speaker 1: I got was six years old. A giant bull it 1665 01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:54,160 Speaker 1: could be seven or eight years old. So it's not 1666 01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:57,200 Speaker 1: the age thing. I had another guy point out, the 1667 01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:00,000 Speaker 1: friend of ours pointed out once. I think we actually 1668 01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:01,479 Speaker 1: discussed this that he was like, we're trying to be 1669 01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:03,360 Speaker 1: like why would He was like really upset about the 1670 01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:05,200 Speaker 1: idea that someone would shoot a wolverine. Nothing, I've ever 1671 01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:07,200 Speaker 1: shot a wolverine. We're having a discussion. He's like, oh, 1672 01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:09,840 Speaker 1: they travel so far. We like, yeah, a Carrey, we 1673 01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:12,479 Speaker 1: travel a lot farther. There's Carrey with the migrate of 1674 01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:15,280 Speaker 1: thousand miles. So it's not traveling because we just shot 1675 01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:18,280 Speaker 1: a carry when I didn't bother at all. It's something different, 1676 01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:20,519 Speaker 1: and I think people are really like struggling, like why 1677 01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:29,160 Speaker 1: is it different. There's thirty thousand lions in the American West. Yeah, 1678 01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:31,160 Speaker 1: if you go and look the like, if you go look, 1679 01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:36,599 Speaker 1: it's international conservation status is as low as you can get. 1680 01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:41,360 Speaker 1: It's a species of least concern. Yeah. I think there's 1681 01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:45,719 Speaker 1: a more exception, like people think that lions are really rare. 1682 01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:48,720 Speaker 1: I hear that a lot, like, oh yeah, people think 1683 01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:52,400 Speaker 1: we're And that's a lot of that. If you hop 1684 01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:55,240 Speaker 1: on you know, any number of sort of activist websites, 1685 01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:59,080 Speaker 1: they'll tell you that they're rare, like they're extrapated from 1686 01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:02,200 Speaker 1: sevent down of their historic rang elk are going from 1687 01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:05,200 Speaker 1: the rest. Right, there are no lions in Illinois than 1688 01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:07,640 Speaker 1: they used to be, Like I understand that, but the 1689 01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:09,320 Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain States we have a lot of lions are 1690 01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:12,800 Speaker 1: not going anywhere. It's a well managed population. Um No 1691 01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:15,600 Speaker 1: in the i u c N status like the international 1692 01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:19,400 Speaker 1: conservation status. I always I was, I always feel that 1693 01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:21,080 Speaker 1: when I look at up I sometimes feel like they're 1694 01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:23,680 Speaker 1: a little bit jumpy, like they give things status like 1695 01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:26,599 Speaker 1: conservation statuses that are unwarranted. And I even was talking 1696 01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:30,160 Speaker 1: to Hotis on the phone. I'm like, I guarantee lions 1697 01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:33,200 Speaker 1: have like a critical or whatever status. But you go 1698 01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:36,880 Speaker 1: on least concern. There's the there a species of least 1699 01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:42,400 Speaker 1: concerned about vulnerability. It's good people with weird stuff. People 1700 01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:44,559 Speaker 1: just get really upset about that ship. There's a bill 1701 01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:49,280 Speaker 1: right now and what Arizona. They want to eliminate the 1702 01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:52,720 Speaker 1: lion hunting season to let because they're killing deer and 1703 01:25:52,720 --> 01:25:54,559 Speaker 1: that's a public safety is you're having too many deer 1704 01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:57,639 Speaker 1: or some it was a guy and of course it's 1705 01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:02,919 Speaker 1: it's it's like, of course he's a he's a Democrat. 1706 01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:04,600 Speaker 1: I knew the minute I saw that Bill. I was like, 1707 01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:08,160 Speaker 1: that's gotta be coming from a Democrat. Um. Not to 1708 01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:10,880 Speaker 1: bash on Democrats, but just it's like, you don't see 1709 01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:14,559 Speaker 1: a lot of anti lion hunting legislation coming out of Republicans, right. 1710 01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:17,040 Speaker 1: They tend to be more like biology friendly folk when 1711 01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:21,639 Speaker 1: it comes to big game management. But this guy, Uh, 1712 01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:24,000 Speaker 1: we're having too many deer and elk on the roads. 1713 01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:30,000 Speaker 1: We need to stop hunting lions in order to reduce 1714 01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:33,200 Speaker 1: deer and elk because it's a public safety hazard. No, 1715 01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:39,080 Speaker 1: that man is not motivated by road safety. That man 1716 01:26:39,320 --> 01:26:43,120 Speaker 1: is motivated by some people constituents or donors who got 1717 01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:46,599 Speaker 1: a real bone to pickle lion hunting and rather saying 1718 01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:49,680 Speaker 1: can hunt lions as people really like the idea of 1719 01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:54,000 Speaker 1: lions and feel and relate to them, and then the 1720 01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:57,600 Speaker 1: same way they relate to housecats or whatever. Um, so 1721 01:26:57,640 --> 01:26:59,880 Speaker 1: we don't want anybody killing lions. You can't say that. 1722 01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:01,559 Speaker 1: You gotta like try to sell it to people on 1723 01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:04,679 Speaker 1: some bogus ship like public because right away Bar pointed 1724 01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:06,800 Speaker 1: out to me there's a time proven way of getting 1725 01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:08,879 Speaker 1: rid of excess deer and out in a very targeted 1726 01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:12,600 Speaker 1: fashion called hunting seasons. Right, and anyone who's hunting in 1727 01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:17,240 Speaker 1: Arizona knows the tags in Arizona not a gimme. Yeah. 1728 01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:19,639 Speaker 1: If there's an overpopulation of deer, I mean, the first 1729 01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:22,759 Speaker 1: thing that comes to my mind isn't too like protect 1730 01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:24,600 Speaker 1: all the predators. It's like, all right, let's address this 1731 01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:28,640 Speaker 1: overpopulation of deer through whatever a hunting season. It's like 1732 01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:33,479 Speaker 1: colde language. Yeah, it's totally yeah, a guy. People are weird, 1733 01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:37,439 Speaker 1: Like I said, people are strange about predators, predator management, 1734 01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:39,559 Speaker 1: especially big ones. You know. They don't worry about coyotes 1735 01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:43,080 Speaker 1: too much or even like bobcats, they don't get too excited. 1736 01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:47,880 Speaker 1: But wolves, cougars and now grizzly bears. This whole conversation 1737 01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:50,839 Speaker 1: has gotten big, and a lot of the most vocal 1738 01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:53,080 Speaker 1: advocacy tends to come from the people who are at 1739 01:27:53,160 --> 01:27:57,040 Speaker 1: least likely to run into one. Oh yeah, of course 1740 01:27:57,040 --> 01:27:59,479 Speaker 1: you want to cougar hiding in every tree if you 1741 01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:03,200 Speaker 1: live in Seattle, right, because you're never gonna see one anyway. 1742 01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:05,439 Speaker 1: Ye always talking like New Jersey cat ladies, you know, 1743 01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:08,640 Speaker 1: or getting fired up on behalf. But I think it 1744 01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:11,320 Speaker 1: is I think it's like a you know, there's a 1745 01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,400 Speaker 1: different like a different physiological difference between predators and prey 1746 01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:17,000 Speaker 1: is uh, you know, your eyes are centered on your 1747 01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:20,840 Speaker 1: face and you know lying what what it does is 1748 01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:25,200 Speaker 1: when your eyes are centered on your face, Um, you know, 1749 01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:27,519 Speaker 1: you can focus on stuff, like you're focusing on something 1750 01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:29,200 Speaker 1: you're gonna pounce on. Like a deer. He's got like 1751 01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:31,240 Speaker 1: think of an antelope. Deer, Like their eyes are way 1752 01:28:31,240 --> 01:28:32,720 Speaker 1: out to the side of their face. What they're doing 1753 01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:34,960 Speaker 1: is just scanning all the time, and you can see 1754 01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:40,160 Speaker 1: almost behind them. And when you have eyes that are focused, 1755 01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:41,599 Speaker 1: like when you have eyes in the center of your face, 1756 01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:43,880 Speaker 1: you're really good at staring at something. And when you 1757 01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:47,280 Speaker 1: see a cat, if you're watch a house cat kind 1758 01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:49,439 Speaker 1: of dodging its head up and down inside to side, 1759 01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:52,640 Speaker 1: he's doing like a death perception thing. He's calculating a 1760 01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:55,840 Speaker 1: distance for a leap, you know, and a praying which 1761 01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,000 Speaker 1: this is incapable of that kind of ship. They're really 1762 01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:00,000 Speaker 1: good at detecting movement all over, but they don't folk. 1763 01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:02,080 Speaker 1: It's not any particular thing at all. I think that 1764 01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:05,040 Speaker 1: people maybe see those front facing eyes and empathize with 1765 01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:08,000 Speaker 1: it more. We don't have a lot of because we 1766 01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:11,240 Speaker 1: have it, we have a creditor. How many prey animals 1767 01:29:11,280 --> 01:29:13,560 Speaker 1: you see getting walk around the neighborhood on a leash. 1768 01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:18,080 Speaker 1: People just don't to like, like people don't divorce wolves 1769 01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:22,040 Speaker 1: from dogs, which which taxonomically speaking, isn't unreasonable. And people 1770 01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:27,160 Speaker 1: don't divorce lions from house cats. Maybe maybe yeah, or 1771 01:29:27,160 --> 01:29:33,920 Speaker 1: it's a or divorced coyotes from it. Yeah. I think 1772 01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:37,439 Speaker 1: it's the perceived rareness. Maybe. I think a lot of 1773 01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:40,840 Speaker 1: it is that. I think people, yeah, when they think that, 1774 01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:46,719 Speaker 1: like we're out there killing the last cougar in North Idaho. Um, 1775 01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:48,680 Speaker 1: it's easy to get behind, you know, sort of that 1776 01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:52,160 Speaker 1: anti hunting action, whether it's just hitting a donate button 1777 01:29:52,240 --> 01:29:54,719 Speaker 1: or whatever else. Um. But in the case the cats 1778 01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:58,880 Speaker 1: were seeing like an unprecedented explosion of line range. Um 1779 01:29:59,439 --> 01:30:02,080 Speaker 1: lines are more be easy. It's almost like it just 1780 01:30:02,120 --> 01:30:04,040 Speaker 1: took them a while to figure out how to cope 1781 01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:07,559 Speaker 1: with people. Now they're like they're reclonizing old places. Well, 1782 01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:10,000 Speaker 1: and I think there's also a lot people are more 1783 01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:13,920 Speaker 1: tolerant of predators than ever before. I mean, you're probably 1784 01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:16,880 Speaker 1: talking about the Black Hills. Yeah, Like so South Dakota 1785 01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:18,400 Speaker 1: had kind of like been out of them and now 1786 01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:20,519 Speaker 1: they got you know, they're running a hunting season down there. 1787 01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:22,519 Speaker 1: But and a lot of that has to do with 1788 01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:24,439 Speaker 1: exactly what you just said, the hunting season. It's not 1789 01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:28,600 Speaker 1: a environment anymore where and you know, the rural communities 1790 01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:30,599 Speaker 1: are there's not as many ranchers, there's not as many 1791 01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:32,519 Speaker 1: people out farming and out the woods as there used 1792 01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:35,840 Speaker 1: to be. Um, so there's you know, maybe less opportunities 1793 01:30:35,880 --> 01:30:38,040 Speaker 1: for them to get shot at. Yeah, and then you can't. 1794 01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:40,759 Speaker 1: And and and the other thing is we're not poisoning anymore 1795 01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:42,880 Speaker 1: like that. And in the old days, you would take 1796 01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:47,800 Speaker 1: a animals did you take like an old mule out 1797 01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:52,040 Speaker 1: or whatever, and shoot it and then inject it with 1798 01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:55,559 Speaker 1: strict nine before it died, so the strict nine would 1799 01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,200 Speaker 1: pass through the circultary system and the whole animal you 1800 01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:00,760 Speaker 1: tanged with a shipload of strict nine and then that 1801 01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:03,080 Speaker 1: would be sort of like whatever eats that is dead. 1802 01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:07,920 Speaker 1: And we did a lot of damage on predators, Yeah, 1803 01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:10,280 Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of like largely we lost a 1804 01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:11,920 Speaker 1: lot of grizzies that way, a lot of wolves that 1805 01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:15,479 Speaker 1: way in the old days, just poisoning programs, right. Yeah, 1806 01:31:15,479 --> 01:31:17,000 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have the idea that 1807 01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:20,960 Speaker 1: wolves were hunted to whatever extra patient in the forty 1808 01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:22,920 Speaker 1: eight and it was a lot more than that, you know, 1809 01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:26,760 Speaker 1: obviously bigger picture stuff with habitat loss, prey loss. Wolfers 1810 01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:32,439 Speaker 1: like the old wolfers, commercial wolf harvesters were poisoners. Yeah, 1811 01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:35,120 Speaker 1: you hear about that, like the little wolf bombs or 1812 01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:36,759 Speaker 1: whatever with a little feather on him and the Strict 1813 01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:40,240 Speaker 1: nine that would poof out kill wolves almost immediately they 1814 01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:42,560 Speaker 1: were they were like rained, like they ran basically a 1815 01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:45,439 Speaker 1: Strict nine trap line on the old days. After the 1816 01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:47,200 Speaker 1: kind of like after the buffalo time there a lot 1817 01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:50,080 Speaker 1: of guys went to wolfing and then we ran bonies 1818 01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:52,280 Speaker 1: on them. So up until the nineteen sixties, I think 1819 01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:55,600 Speaker 1: Montana had a bony online. Yeah, And there was this 1820 01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:58,720 Speaker 1: kind of this epiphany where you know, again coming from 1821 01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:01,320 Speaker 1: Hollandsmen and others, where they has made a radical switch, 1822 01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:08,200 Speaker 1: like instead of paying people to kill mountains, we're gonna 1823 01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:11,200 Speaker 1: have people pay us to do a limited amount of 1824 01:32:11,240 --> 01:32:13,320 Speaker 1: hunting for mountalins and were to find like a place 1825 01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:15,720 Speaker 1: in our heart to have the animals on the landscape. 1826 01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:18,800 Speaker 1: The hounds are the last guys that want to see 1827 01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:22,679 Speaker 1: lions get down. Oh for sure. Actually it was funny, yeah, 1828 01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:28,040 Speaker 1: talking about like letting cats go. Um, I've told you 1829 01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:30,800 Speaker 1: about like seeing cats and talking people out of shooting them. 1830 01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:32,720 Speaker 1: I've taken moose hunters a couple of different times and 1831 01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:36,120 Speaker 1: had cats. We've watched a cat come down to a 1832 01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:38,320 Speaker 1: stream and taking a drink in. This moose hunter was like, 1833 01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:39,920 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, there's a cougar. I wanna you know, 1834 01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna shoot him. And I'm like, nah, let's see 1835 01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:46,000 Speaker 1: if it's a tom, you know, because you haven't caught it. Yeah, 1836 01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:50,240 Speaker 1: I don't want him to shoot that cat. What for? Um? 1837 01:32:50,360 --> 01:32:51,600 Speaker 1: So I kind of talked him out of it. The 1838 01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:54,320 Speaker 1: cat out away, of course. And the other day Bruce 1839 01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:56,600 Speaker 1: is right in the snowmobile and he comes around the 1840 01:32:56,600 --> 01:32:58,720 Speaker 1: corner and there's a podcasting in the road, and he 1841 01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:00,799 Speaker 1: has a gun on him. You know, here's this bobcat 1842 01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:04,280 Speaker 1: and he's like five yards away from it. It moves 1843 01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:07,759 Speaker 1: aside and he rides past it, and then he stops 1844 01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:10,479 Speaker 1: and he sees a pair. There's a second bobcat on 1845 01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:12,880 Speaker 1: a deer kill right below the road, like like ten 1846 01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:16,080 Speaker 1: yards away. So here here's this you know, hound hunter, 1847 01:33:16,160 --> 01:33:18,080 Speaker 1: hunting guide, all this stuff. And he said, there looking 1848 01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:22,000 Speaker 1: at these two bobcats. He's armed, and you know, obviously 1849 01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:24,960 Speaker 1: he doesn't want to shoot him because he hasn't he 1850 01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:27,479 Speaker 1: didn't catch it. Yeah, what's he gonna do with that bobcat? Right? 1851 01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:29,519 Speaker 1: So he comes back, he's like, oh, there's a couple 1852 01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:31,559 Speaker 1: of bobcats up there. We can go turn loose on 1853 01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:34,559 Speaker 1: those and like take a chance at him. Um. But 1854 01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:36,599 Speaker 1: it's just an interesting way to look at it, Like, yeah, 1855 01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:38,400 Speaker 1: I don't want to. Would I want to shoot a 1856 01:33:38,400 --> 01:33:41,479 Speaker 1: line without catching it? Do you think you'll ever shoot 1857 01:33:41,479 --> 01:33:44,880 Speaker 1: in their line? Yeah? I mean I'm sure I will 1858 01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:48,360 Speaker 1: for you know, control stuff for whatever. I just like 1859 01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:50,360 Speaker 1: a hunt, you know, not a big game hunt. Now, 1860 01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:55,000 Speaker 1: I'm not going to really, he's no, you won't. No, 1861 01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:58,559 Speaker 1: I've got no. I'm happy with the lion I've got. 1862 01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:03,479 Speaker 1: Would you do? Are you done? Itch? And know? But 1863 01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:07,080 Speaker 1: I like to, but it's not an itch, you know, 1864 01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:09,800 Speaker 1: what's you're feeling about it? Like like where you at 1865 01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:14,000 Speaker 1: on it? Um? You know, I kind of if I 1866 01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:15,720 Speaker 1: had an itch, I could definitely kind of scratch it 1867 01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:18,120 Speaker 1: by going on that hunt, you know, And definitely seeing 1868 01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:20,519 Speaker 1: that cat, I'd like to go on more. I mean, 1869 01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:22,760 Speaker 1: I've got a couple of friends in Bowsman that are 1870 01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:25,720 Speaker 1: running cats and are you know, sometimes killing them, sometimes not. 1871 01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:27,400 Speaker 1: And I've been invited to go out and I'm gonna 1872 01:34:27,439 --> 01:34:29,880 Speaker 1: try to make that happen, just to go see another line, 1873 01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:35,040 Speaker 1: because again, just seeing a line at thirty yards its special, special, 1874 01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:39,599 Speaker 1: It's crazy, you know. Um, But yeah, I don't know. 1875 01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:41,920 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, the meats, like you said, the meets 1876 01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:44,360 Speaker 1: kind of a novelty. It's actually great, great meat. I 1877 01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:47,479 Speaker 1: mean we served it Christmas Day at my house in 1878 01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:52,600 Speaker 1: laws there with it. Dude, they loved it. I was 1879 01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:57,480 Speaker 1: I was like really serving it like you know, trepidation, 1880 01:34:57,600 --> 01:34:59,920 Speaker 1: like I don't know, man, And I mean that's the 1881 01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:01,840 Speaker 1: hadn't even been like chopped up. We just took the 1882 01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:03,720 Speaker 1: lid off, the Dutch off and there's my mother in 1883 01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:06,439 Speaker 1: law sticking her fingers and it's like it's like the 1884 01:35:06,479 --> 01:35:11,320 Speaker 1: best pork. Yeah, it was awesome, Like it got gobbled up, 1885 01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:14,360 Speaker 1: like it's really really good eating. You know. But I 1886 01:35:14,439 --> 01:35:16,519 Speaker 1: wonder if that's not part of the reason that like 1887 01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:19,800 Speaker 1: people have that big problem with the wolf in the 1888 01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:23,519 Speaker 1: Mountain Lion because it's just not known as like a 1889 01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:26,800 Speaker 1: common food source. But it's not. It's it's just the 1890 01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:30,720 Speaker 1: food thing is kind of novelty. Like I I like, 1891 01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:32,240 Speaker 1: I think of myself as like I kind of in 1892 01:35:32,360 --> 01:35:37,040 Speaker 1: large measures, like live off dear meat. Yeah, for shere 1893 01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:40,880 Speaker 1: moves elk. I got like it's we are always eating 1894 01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:44,320 Speaker 1: dear meat. So someone say, like, you know, here's this predator. 1895 01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:47,040 Speaker 1: What this predator focuses on is he eats a lot 1896 01:35:47,080 --> 01:35:49,400 Speaker 1: of deer and elk and moves meat like he eats 1897 01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:51,760 Speaker 1: a lot of umulate meat. It would be weird and 1898 01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:54,120 Speaker 1: now and there and I'll have like these little bonus things. 1899 01:35:54,160 --> 01:35:56,840 Speaker 1: But when I sort of like map out my future meals, 1900 01:35:57,960 --> 01:36:01,599 Speaker 1: you know, I just imagine that I'm like a being 1901 01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:05,120 Speaker 1: that consumes venicone. I think it would be even as 1902 01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:06,879 Speaker 1: a hound on her I think it would be strange 1903 01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:10,680 Speaker 1: if somebody was like, did you get your cougar this 1904 01:36:10,720 --> 01:36:12,800 Speaker 1: year the way they do your deer or your elk 1905 01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:15,120 Speaker 1: or whatever, you were like living off cougar meat, that 1906 01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:20,360 Speaker 1: would be really weird. Yeah, definitely don't. I can't imagine 1907 01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:22,679 Speaker 1: I can started living off cougar meat. Even if you could. 1908 01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:25,560 Speaker 1: It's just I just like, you know, I'm a specialist. 1909 01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:29,639 Speaker 1: I guess on prey. But yeah, I've been saying I'll 1910 01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:31,280 Speaker 1: never go again. But see now I have a few 1911 01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:35,000 Speaker 1: bonus points in Montana you need to go. You're curious 1912 01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:37,800 Speaker 1: about that seely Swan area, because that's where I saw 1913 01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:41,720 Speaker 1: my first line. Yeah, I love that area, so you 1914 01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:43,599 Speaker 1: can see. Maybe I'll do me a little lion hunt 1915 01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:47,320 Speaker 1: over there someday. I don't know. You've got tight and that. 1916 01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:49,040 Speaker 1: You know. The nice thing about lion hunting is you 1917 01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:52,720 Speaker 1: don't have to shoot the cat either. You can run 1918 01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:56,519 Speaker 1: cats and tree cats all week and yeah it's not 1919 01:36:56,640 --> 01:37:01,000 Speaker 1: it's a potentially non consumptive hunt. Yeah, I'm pragmatic fellow 1920 01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:05,200 Speaker 1: man like mountain like mountain climbing. I have like a 1921 01:37:05,200 --> 01:37:09,000 Speaker 1: lot of respect for alpinistent. But you know, finding me 1922 01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:13,800 Speaker 1: go out there, going up there just to go out 1923 01:37:13,760 --> 01:37:15,439 Speaker 1: there and say I did it, it's like I'll do 1924 01:37:15,520 --> 01:37:17,719 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But it's like like a big 1925 01:37:17,800 --> 01:37:20,280 Speaker 1: motivation for me. It's you know, I'm like a practical 1926 01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:22,799 Speaker 1: guy man, Like just set your goal at getting pictures 1927 01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:27,160 Speaker 1: I could. Yeah, it's different than deer nowk though pictures 1928 01:37:27,160 --> 01:37:30,240 Speaker 1: of them are no fun when you when you got 1929 01:37:30,360 --> 01:37:35,640 Speaker 1: your first lion out? Was it because what? Because you 1930 01:37:35,640 --> 01:37:36,960 Speaker 1: wanted to have a line. How do you want to 1931 01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:43,120 Speaker 1: get a line? Uh? Both. Before I had hounds, I 1932 01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:45,800 Speaker 1: would have like shot a lion if it had walked 1933 01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:47,640 Speaker 1: in front of me while I was deer hunting. That 1934 01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:51,640 Speaker 1: has changed. I wouldn't do that now. Um. But I 1935 01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:54,599 Speaker 1: grew up around hounds, and I knew I wanted hounds. 1936 01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:57,640 Speaker 1: So when I got my first dogs, you know, I 1937 01:37:57,680 --> 01:38:01,000 Speaker 1: moved from the Midwest where you're hunting wreck wounes out here, 1938 01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:05,640 Speaker 1: and obvious choice here is lions. Um. So once I 1939 01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:09,880 Speaker 1: got dogs, I still hadn't killed a lion. Um. Once 1940 01:38:09,920 --> 01:38:13,040 Speaker 1: I got dogs, then I was like, I had to 1941 01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:14,680 Speaker 1: train the dogs, had to do all these other things, 1942 01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:16,400 Speaker 1: and I knew eventually I was going to catch a lion, 1943 01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:20,320 Speaker 1: but it took took a little time. I trade lions 1944 01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:25,280 Speaker 1: the first year. Oh yeah, not easily. It was pretty hard. 1945 01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:28,280 Speaker 1: It was hard training because the dogs were up to 1946 01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:30,960 Speaker 1: it yet, or you weren't. I didn't know anything. I 1947 01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:33,320 Speaker 1: didn't know what I was doing. Um. You know, I 1948 01:38:33,360 --> 01:38:34,880 Speaker 1: had a couple of friends that had been around it, 1949 01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:37,160 Speaker 1: and they helped me some. Um, but I didn't have 1950 01:38:37,160 --> 01:38:40,800 Speaker 1: a finished dog to train Whisper, so I'm you know, 1951 01:38:41,080 --> 01:38:44,640 Speaker 1: without trying to figure out these tracks. The first year, 1952 01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:45,960 Speaker 1: I didn't even have snow machines, so I was like 1953 01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:48,640 Speaker 1: park and walk in with snowshoes until I got a 1954 01:38:48,680 --> 01:38:50,760 Speaker 1: track and start walking with his dog on a leash 1955 01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:54,160 Speaker 1: and try to like pet her when she did things right. 1956 01:38:54,200 --> 01:38:56,200 Speaker 1: And I had a Border Collie trotting along next to me. 1957 01:38:56,920 --> 01:39:01,080 Speaker 1: It was a show or GPS. UM. The first year 1958 01:39:01,120 --> 01:39:03,840 Speaker 1: I did not. The second year I did UM and 1959 01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:05,479 Speaker 1: we actually treat a few cats that way. And I 1960 01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:06,559 Speaker 1: had it from like I said, I had a first 1961 01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:10,479 Speaker 1: head on striking out on snowshoes and getting on, but 1962 01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:12,559 Speaker 1: it's a that's a really really hard way to do 1963 01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:14,680 Speaker 1: it and low success rates. I think I treat you know, 1964 01:39:14,720 --> 01:39:19,759 Speaker 1: one or two that way. UM. I had problem females, 1965 01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:26,240 Speaker 1: which makes sense. They're just more dense, densely populated. UM. 1966 01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:28,200 Speaker 1: And then once you know, I got I picked up 1967 01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:30,599 Speaker 1: a couple more dogs, and Whisper was coming on and 1968 01:39:31,040 --> 01:39:32,960 Speaker 1: got the GPS and I was starting to feel more 1969 01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:35,559 Speaker 1: like a like a legit hound on her after a 1970 01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:38,920 Speaker 1: couple of years. UM, but I think I was in it. 1971 01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:41,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, two years or something, three years before 1972 01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:43,519 Speaker 1: I caught that big tom, And it was kind of 1973 01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:45,680 Speaker 1: a special deal the way it all worked out. So 1974 01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:47,840 Speaker 1: that was your first line, That was the first one 1975 01:39:47,880 --> 01:39:50,479 Speaker 1: I killed. Yeah, I try had treat and released several 1976 01:39:50,479 --> 01:39:53,479 Speaker 1: cats before that, kind of How did you grow up 1977 01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:59,840 Speaker 1: with uh English red ticks and blue ticks that chased coons? Yep, yep, 1978 01:40:01,240 --> 01:40:04,320 Speaker 1: when you were running coons where for price is good? No, no, 1979 01:40:05,960 --> 01:40:09,320 Speaker 1: we made up for that with quantity. Nobody was running dogs. 1980 01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:12,240 Speaker 1: Nobody was really trapping much. I think. Yeah, so you're 1981 01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:15,760 Speaker 1: you know, you're getting ten fifteen bucks a piece or something. Well, 1982 01:40:15,760 --> 01:40:17,040 Speaker 1: if you had a good night, you had a pile 1983 01:40:17,080 --> 01:40:20,559 Speaker 1: of raccoons, Yeah, we got four one year. Yeah that's 1984 01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:23,080 Speaker 1: pretty good. That's a big here. But then you said 1985 01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:28,000 Speaker 1: your dad has now switched dogs. Yeah, he's running beagles 1986 01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:33,679 Speaker 1: now for rabbits. Yep, No, your dad don't hunt, Stepdad. Okay, okay, 1987 01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:38,360 Speaker 1: so stepdad's running beagles he uh yeah, he's like a 1988 01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:42,360 Speaker 1: non consumptive hunter now just runs rabbits all day. He 1989 01:40:42,479 --> 01:40:44,920 Speaker 1: runs rabs with beagles and doesn't shoot the rabbits. Nope, 1990 01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:48,639 Speaker 1: it doesn't even take a gun, which brings us all 1991 01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:51,120 Speaker 1: the way back around to the whole, Like Ronnie Baby 1992 01:40:52,360 --> 01:40:54,120 Speaker 1: the dogs after a while and be like, I'm not 1993 01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:57,479 Speaker 1: hung this guy anymore because they're good dogs. They don't 1994 01:40:57,479 --> 01:40:59,479 Speaker 1: need to catch the rabbit, just like they don't need 1995 01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:02,360 Speaker 1: to chew on it too, you know whatever, Well, they 1996 01:41:02,400 --> 01:41:05,439 Speaker 1: like to chew on it. They like to see it. There, 1997 01:41:05,479 --> 01:41:07,160 Speaker 1: you get to see it. I'm not blaming the dogs. 1998 01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:09,120 Speaker 1: I don't care. I'm just I'm surprised as the dogs 1999 01:41:09,200 --> 01:41:12,479 Speaker 1: after what I learnt, Like, man, you know, their asses 2000 01:41:12,520 --> 01:41:14,920 Speaker 1: off here and no one's doing anything about it. I 2001 01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:18,880 Speaker 1: don't know. I guess they just don't need to they 2002 01:41:21,560 --> 01:41:24,960 Speaker 1: do anything. You want to add, Yeah, I added, I 2003 01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:28,080 Speaker 1: added that Barne I talked about that earlier. I thought 2004 01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:32,280 Speaker 1: that was interesting. You know, the non consumptive rabbit houndsman. Yeah, 2005 01:41:32,360 --> 01:41:34,240 Speaker 1: this is like just the guy that loves his dogs, 2006 01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:37,240 Speaker 1: loves his hounds, loves the chase and the pursuit, and 2007 01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:40,200 Speaker 1: then at the end of the day, it's like load up, 2008 01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:46,320 Speaker 1: no cleaning, let's go. Yeah, I guess he's chicken breasts. Yeah, 2009 01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:49,639 Speaker 1: it's easy to get permission on private property too. Don't 2010 01:41:49,640 --> 01:41:51,160 Speaker 1: have a gun and you got a dog, that's like 2011 01:41:52,400 --> 01:41:56,719 Speaker 1: big enough you put it into purse. You're not that threatening. No, 2012 01:41:57,000 --> 01:41:59,760 Speaker 1: you're not. You're not. You're not dipping into the game. Pop. 2013 01:42:00,680 --> 01:42:02,720 Speaker 1: They're like standing around in the field and letting the 2014 01:42:02,760 --> 01:42:07,479 Speaker 1: dogs work contail permissions. We've had, um, you know, back 2015 01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:09,599 Speaker 1: home in Michigan, we had like really good luck getting 2016 01:42:09,600 --> 01:42:13,519 Speaker 1: contentail permissions. Yeah, you never like really like wanting for 2017 01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:17,320 Speaker 1: contail spots because you're hunting the winter. No one's out 2018 01:42:17,360 --> 01:42:21,200 Speaker 1: after dear more and more. People don't really care about 2019 01:42:21,240 --> 01:42:24,519 Speaker 1: small game, right, Yeah, if you can do it during 2020 01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:27,040 Speaker 1: the off season for the big game stuff, nobody, nobody's 2021 01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:30,160 Speaker 1: gonna get to People always let us out rabbits. Not always, 2022 01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:32,240 Speaker 1: but we had a lot of places not rabbits. You 2023 01:42:32,320 --> 01:42:35,639 Speaker 1: got any eighth final concluding thoughts you want to add, Park, 2024 01:42:37,280 --> 01:42:39,719 Speaker 1: I can just add a little bit to mine, please. 2025 01:42:39,720 --> 01:42:42,639 Speaker 1: I don't feel like now that we did that hunt, 2026 01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:45,559 Speaker 1: I'm actually more interested in do anyone because I sort 2027 01:42:45,560 --> 01:42:49,600 Speaker 1: of had my um, you know, my question not not 2028 01:42:49,640 --> 01:42:52,479 Speaker 1: on your questions, but just I had these like even 2029 01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:54,720 Speaker 1: just explaining that chase part, you know that like the 2030 01:42:54,760 --> 01:42:57,280 Speaker 1: dogs aren't actually chasing the line from most of the chase. Yeah, 2031 01:42:57,280 --> 01:42:59,000 Speaker 1: that was a real sticking point for you. Yeah, you 2032 01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:00,760 Speaker 1: were hung up on that for a long time. Well, 2033 01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:03,000 Speaker 1: I feel like because when you talk to people, people 2034 01:43:03,160 --> 01:43:07,000 Speaker 1: just don't understand. They think the lions, I'll do all 2035 01:43:07,000 --> 01:43:10,720 Speaker 1: this evasive act or he's doing all this evasive activity 2036 01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:13,400 Speaker 1: and like trying to like shake the dogs. And why 2037 01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:16,120 Speaker 1: you hear that too. You hear that from you know, 2038 01:43:16,200 --> 01:43:19,479 Speaker 1: the groups about Chase is the cat to exhaustion, toil, 2039 01:43:19,479 --> 01:43:21,160 Speaker 1: they can't go any further than it climbs the tree, 2040 01:43:21,160 --> 01:43:24,879 Speaker 1: And that's not really accurate. We rarely have cats panting, 2041 01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:28,479 Speaker 1: even they're just standing there our cameraman. We're like, we 2042 01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:30,040 Speaker 1: kind of brought that up for the first time. They 2043 01:43:30,080 --> 01:43:35,000 Speaker 1: were like, yeah, that's what happens. Like, No, he's got 2044 01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:37,760 Speaker 1: all these tricks and he's crossing and recrossing creeks to 2045 01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:40,240 Speaker 1: lose the dogs where the red fern grows, that kind 2046 01:43:40,240 --> 01:43:44,320 Speaker 1: of stuff. Like. But now that that's been cleared up 2047 01:43:44,400 --> 01:43:46,679 Speaker 1: and I'm not really gray about how it all goes down, 2048 01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:49,479 Speaker 1: and the fact that we ended up having such a 2049 01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:52,759 Speaker 1: you know, real pursuit like hunt in the end where 2050 01:43:53,840 --> 01:43:59,160 Speaker 1: it was me, Corey, you and Bruce, I mean, for 2051 01:43:59,720 --> 01:44:01,759 Speaker 1: fall on down the hill. I mean I watched Corey 2052 01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:04,120 Speaker 1: rolled ten yards down the hill and somehow protect his 2053 01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:07,559 Speaker 1: camera but you know, fully lathered up and sweat, you know. 2054 01:44:07,720 --> 01:44:09,680 Speaker 1: And we're like halfway through and Bruce looks at all 2055 01:44:09,680 --> 01:44:13,000 Speaker 1: of us, He's like, every here, all right, we gotta 2056 01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:16,519 Speaker 1: really turn it up happening, you know. We're like, man, 2057 01:44:16,640 --> 01:44:19,479 Speaker 1: you know, and we had this real pursuit. Were at 2058 01:44:19,479 --> 01:44:24,000 Speaker 1: the end You're just like, you know, yeah, like, I mean, 2059 01:44:24,080 --> 01:44:29,680 Speaker 1: it's wild and um just because again and everybody in 2060 01:44:29,680 --> 01:44:32,880 Speaker 1: their mind has this idea that some oh boy just 2061 01:44:32,920 --> 01:44:35,040 Speaker 1: gets out of the pig on truck and walks ten 2062 01:44:35,120 --> 01:44:37,439 Speaker 1: feet into the woods and he's like, oh they're lying, 2063 01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:43,280 Speaker 1: and just wasn't like that, you know, And so um, yeah, 2064 01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:46,680 Speaker 1: I do see myself at some point killing what, you know, 2065 01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:49,439 Speaker 1: But I'm not like I should just go ahead and 2066 01:44:49,439 --> 01:44:51,360 Speaker 1: do it right now because I have the opportunity, you know. Yeah, 2067 01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:55,360 Speaker 1: at this point, I think I've spent we're close to 2068 01:44:55,400 --> 01:44:57,880 Speaker 1: Bart obviously like a like a percent of Bart's time, 2069 01:44:57,960 --> 01:45:05,240 Speaker 1: but I've spent or teen or fifteen days following lion hounds, 2070 01:45:06,320 --> 01:45:09,920 Speaker 1: and um caught a line was there for a lion 2071 01:45:10,000 --> 01:45:14,160 Speaker 1: to be caught? And I through all that. If you 2072 01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:18,519 Speaker 1: were to like put my um, you know, if you 2073 01:45:18,560 --> 01:45:22,160 Speaker 1: were to put my appreciation for what goes into a 2074 01:45:22,200 --> 01:45:25,240 Speaker 1: lion hunt on this sort of graph, it would be 2075 01:45:25,280 --> 01:45:27,720 Speaker 1: this like this, like lion that goes up at a 2076 01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:30,240 Speaker 1: forty five degree angle, like higher and higher and higher 2077 01:45:30,320 --> 01:45:35,679 Speaker 1: for my appreciation for lion hunters in lion hunting, um 2078 01:45:35,920 --> 01:45:38,799 Speaker 1: just like a steady increase. I never saw any aspect 2079 01:45:38,800 --> 01:45:41,000 Speaker 1: of it, maybe like suspicious of it or be like 2080 01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, it really is just not fair. I mean 2081 01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:47,200 Speaker 1: it's like it's it is a if you're looking at 2082 01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:53,639 Speaker 1: like a challenge thing, uh skill set mhm. It mad 2083 01:45:53,640 --> 01:45:56,200 Speaker 1: be different too if you weren't able to hire a 2084 01:45:56,200 --> 01:45:58,760 Speaker 1: guide to do it. I mean, thank god. I mean 2085 01:45:58,800 --> 01:46:00,479 Speaker 1: think about it. If it had to be that way, 2086 01:46:00,760 --> 01:46:02,559 Speaker 1: if like when you got a tag or you wanted 2087 01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:04,880 Speaker 1: to go kill a lion, you weren't allowed to do 2088 01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:06,840 Speaker 1: it with a guide, you had to like do it 2089 01:46:06,880 --> 01:46:10,400 Speaker 1: on your own. Maybe no freaking lions getting killed, like 2090 01:46:10,439 --> 01:46:12,360 Speaker 1: you said it took you. Sure you treat a couple 2091 01:46:12,439 --> 01:46:17,160 Speaker 1: that first year, but like think about the effort Washington 2092 01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:19,240 Speaker 1: grab a couple of dogs, yeah, and to stay like 2093 01:46:19,320 --> 01:46:22,040 Speaker 1: Washington where you don't have hound hunting for for lions, 2094 01:46:22,400 --> 01:46:25,080 Speaker 1: they basically giveaway lin tags everyone that buys a deer 2095 01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:30,160 Speaker 1: was it five bucks? Yeah? Because you know and in 2096 01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:32,559 Speaker 1: the states where they in states where you have hound's 2097 01:46:32,600 --> 01:46:34,880 Speaker 1: been in a hound hunting there, you're not like like 2098 01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:38,360 Speaker 1: encouraged to go get your lion thing. In Colorado, you 2099 01:46:38,360 --> 01:46:40,960 Speaker 1: got pass the test to get a lion tag. I 2100 01:46:41,000 --> 01:46:42,479 Speaker 1: can get behind that. I think you should be able 2101 01:46:42,520 --> 01:46:44,760 Speaker 1: to sex a lion before you are able to go 2102 01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:47,519 Speaker 1: out and hunt them. I mean that's the that's the 2103 01:46:47,560 --> 01:46:50,400 Speaker 1: beauty of the quota system, right. You can you can 2104 01:46:50,439 --> 01:46:53,200 Speaker 1: say there's many females as many males if you wanted to, 2105 01:46:53,200 --> 01:46:57,320 Speaker 1: You could even assign age classes per unit, and you 2106 01:46:57,360 --> 01:47:01,920 Speaker 1: can really manage that with a a lot of precision. Yeah, 2107 01:47:01,960 --> 01:47:03,720 Speaker 1: that's the point we could bring up real quickly is 2108 01:47:03,760 --> 01:47:09,240 Speaker 1: that Washington went from a Holland season outlining honeywood dogs. 2109 01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:12,439 Speaker 1: So now they just give away what like five bucks 2110 01:47:12,439 --> 01:47:14,360 Speaker 1: for the tag whatever, and a lot of lines are 2111 01:47:14,360 --> 01:47:17,240 Speaker 1: getting killed, all like the wrong lines were getting killed. 2112 01:47:17,720 --> 01:47:19,720 Speaker 1: And didn't she say that there's like a group of 2113 01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:24,000 Speaker 1: houndsman now that are starting to organize to um, We've 2114 01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:26,920 Speaker 1: tried that a few times without a lot of success. 2115 01:47:26,960 --> 01:47:31,080 Speaker 1: But you know there are people, um behind it politically, 2116 01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:36,200 Speaker 1: Democrats behind it, politically Steve Back, Oh, yeah, totally, yeah, 2117 01:47:36,200 --> 01:47:44,720 Speaker 1: it's yeah. Now they we've tried that some Washington's a 2118 01:47:44,720 --> 01:47:47,840 Speaker 1: weird spot because they've, like I said, they've made hound 2119 01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:51,600 Speaker 1: hunting illegal. Um. As a result, they've really increased the 2120 01:47:51,640 --> 01:47:55,759 Speaker 1: number of hound or of cougar permits, and there's actually 2121 01:47:55,800 --> 01:48:00,479 Speaker 1: more cougars being killed now than before. But the age, 2122 01:48:00,520 --> 01:48:03,320 Speaker 1: class and sex has changed. So it used to be 2123 01:48:03,360 --> 01:48:09,000 Speaker 1: like from five I think it was you know, female, 2124 01:48:09,920 --> 01:48:13,960 Speaker 1: uh we're killed. Um, and now it's up like sixty 2125 01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:18,240 Speaker 1: of the cats killed or females, which really impacts the 2126 01:48:18,280 --> 01:48:21,799 Speaker 1: population more. You know, they're they're there, they're the breeding 2127 01:48:21,880 --> 01:48:24,000 Speaker 1: portion of the population. They're important. And you call those 2128 01:48:24,040 --> 01:48:30,960 Speaker 1: guys boot hunters, the boot hunters that dog hunters, right, yeah, 2129 01:48:31,120 --> 01:48:37,120 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I've read a lot about it, you 2130 01:48:37,120 --> 01:48:39,720 Speaker 1: know this all the aspects of lines and stuff, and 2131 01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:41,880 Speaker 1: talk a lot of people about it, but it's like, um, 2132 01:48:42,200 --> 01:48:44,639 Speaker 1: it's not something that you're gonna like really quickly get 2133 01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:49,240 Speaker 1: a grasp on ideas of mountain lion hunting mountain lion management. 2134 01:48:50,120 --> 01:48:54,240 Speaker 1: The difference is how different states vi lions. Just from 2135 01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:57,040 Speaker 1: my perspective right now, I think that, like I really 2136 01:48:57,080 --> 01:49:03,360 Speaker 1: like the systems of manageing them for longevity as a 2137 01:49:03,360 --> 01:49:07,000 Speaker 1: big game animal. YEP. I think if you can remove 2138 01:49:07,040 --> 01:49:10,879 Speaker 1: yourself from sort of this emotional idea about what hounds 2139 01:49:10,960 --> 01:49:15,479 Speaker 1: and lions do and just manage them like a big 2140 01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:19,600 Speaker 1: game animal, like like Montana does a great job of that. Um, 2141 01:49:19,640 --> 01:49:22,880 Speaker 1: we need this number of cougars killed, um, and remove 2142 01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:25,680 Speaker 1: yourself again from that sort of individual idea of the 2143 01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:29,320 Speaker 1: cat and think about the population. Um. We don't care 2144 01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:31,240 Speaker 1: how it happens, but we need you know, ten males 2145 01:49:31,240 --> 01:49:34,360 Speaker 1: and ten females killed from this unit. Go take care 2146 01:49:34,360 --> 01:49:38,320 Speaker 1: of it. Um. That that would be a more wise 2147 01:49:38,360 --> 01:49:41,080 Speaker 1: way to manage them. Yeah, And they're still running targeted 2148 01:49:41,120 --> 01:49:44,000 Speaker 1: predator control, Like if you've got a lion, it's killing livestock. 2149 01:49:44,200 --> 01:49:47,160 Speaker 1: There's a lot of ways in which they go after 2150 01:49:47,160 --> 01:49:50,519 Speaker 1: and remove that specific animal, depending on outside of any 2151 01:49:50,560 --> 01:49:53,640 Speaker 1: kind of season structure. That big cat that attacked me 2152 01:49:53,720 --> 01:49:59,559 Speaker 1: got killed last week by for attacking goats no ship. Yeah, yeah, 2153 01:49:59,680 --> 01:50:01,760 Speaker 1: with the collar on him. With the collar on him, 2154 01:50:01,800 --> 01:50:05,799 Speaker 1: they got that, so he's dead though he got tangled 2155 01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:08,320 Speaker 1: up with some goats. He killed five goats and like 2156 01:50:08,360 --> 01:50:11,920 Speaker 1: two or three days and they called another houndsman to 2157 01:50:11,920 --> 01:50:14,559 Speaker 1: come in and take care of it, and he went 2158 01:50:14,600 --> 01:50:17,559 Speaker 1: into kill this cat. It turned out to be the 2159 01:50:17,560 --> 01:50:21,759 Speaker 1: big mean cat and it wooden tree, and it started 2160 01:50:21,800 --> 01:50:23,439 Speaker 1: after him and he ended up shooting it right in 2161 01:50:23,479 --> 01:50:26,320 Speaker 1: the point of the nose, basically at point blank range, 2162 01:50:26,360 --> 01:50:29,320 Speaker 1: as it was like coming at him. Did you get 2163 01:50:29,320 --> 01:50:33,160 Speaker 1: your collar back? The state got the collar back? How 2164 01:50:33,200 --> 01:50:35,479 Speaker 1: far was it from where you guys put the collar on? It? 2165 01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:39,839 Speaker 1: Pretty close within you know, four or five miles no ship. Yeah, 2166 01:50:39,960 --> 01:50:43,080 Speaker 1: he's dead. Yeah, where did you get the school? Yep, 2167 01:50:43,880 --> 01:50:46,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna you don't want to know it. I've got it. 2168 01:50:51,479 --> 01:50:54,519 Speaker 1: You want to be a goat killer? Yep? Yeah, just 2169 01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:59,280 Speaker 1: a short time after the callering. Five goats in a 2170 01:50:59,320 --> 01:51:01,160 Speaker 1: couple of days, so he was killing him at a 2171 01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:03,080 Speaker 1: faster raith than he was able to eat him. Yeah, 2172 01:51:03,120 --> 01:51:05,800 Speaker 1: he's probably squirreling him away somewhere, sticking him on her 2173 01:51:05,800 --> 01:51:09,720 Speaker 1: logs and yah huh, all right, man, Bart wants to 2174 01:51:09,760 --> 01:51:12,840 Speaker 1: get thanks for joining us. Yeah, anytimes, I don't know. 2175 01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:14,560 Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna remember the last time you were on. 2176 01:51:14,680 --> 01:51:15,960 Speaker 1: I was like you have to come back and talk 2177 01:51:16,040 --> 01:51:19,519 Speaker 1: about Lions. I don't know what we're gonna have to 2178 01:51:19,520 --> 01:51:21,639 Speaker 1: have you out of things. I don't know what we're 2179 01:51:21,640 --> 01:51:26,120 Speaker 1: gonna talk about that. It'll be something. Thank you. Yeah, 2180 01:51:26,120 --> 01:51:26,519 Speaker 1: of course