WEBVTT - How To Be A Good Boy 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:04.920 Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:09.240 queer sex. Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities. 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.480 If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:17.080 offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this. Viewer 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.919 discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids. 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:21.880 Gabe. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:26.400 Oh, yes, Chris, it's Cruising Confession time. Do you have 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:27.560 any kinks or fetishes? 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:29.080 Uh? 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:33.840 Yes, I think I think everybody does, but I'm always 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.839 confused about the difference between them. My understanding is like 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.320 a kink defines like a very broad array of sexual 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:44.519 interests that deviate from the norm or whatever that is. 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:49.080 So by that standard, definitely and do some kinks. I'm 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.320 a little more neibulous on the term fetish. Do you 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:53.920 have a working definition for that? 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:59.720 I generally describe fetish as as things or people or 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.480 play is that really get you a rouse, turn you 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:03.520 on on? 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:05.560 So, like a fetish can be a kink. But yeah, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.199 all kinks are fetishes exactly. I feel like I'm taking 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:10.200 an essayt test for queer sex. 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:12.199 This is and that's why we're here. 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.759 That's exactly why we're here to figure it out with you. 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:16.000 I am so excited. 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:16.960 Yeah. 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:18.640 I think I have kinks, but I think everybody does. 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.600 I'm like, who decides what's kinky? Like, growing up a 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.720 CD was kinky. Acating was fully kinky, and we saw 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:26.319 it on Girls, Yes, and then we saw it on 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:28.440 Broad City. Yeah, and now the straight people are doing it, 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:30.480 so maybe it's not kink anymore. 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:32.240 I think they were always doing it, they just weren't 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.080 talking about it. Okay, you know what I mean? Yeah, 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:39.200 because like it's sex. You're right, we're going to discover things, right, Yeah, 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.120 how about you? Do you have any any kinks? I 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.120 have a very long list of kinks and fetishes. Yeah. 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:49.640 Whenever I get asked that question, I'm like, how do 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:51.520 I answer this? You know what I mean? 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:53.400 Because like the people who are generally asking me the 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.320 question aren't ready for the answer. 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:57.760 Right, You're like, how long? How long do you have? 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.720 Like is the zoom an hour long? No? We got 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:01.080 a Yeah. 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:02.920 It's like these twenty three year olds who were like 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:04.680 who seeming like in a harness, They're like, oo, what 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:05.160 are your king? 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.200 And I'm like, oh, sweetheart, buckle up. 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.200 Buckle up. Coincidentally, one of my kinks is buckling up, so. 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:16.440 Safety first. Yeah. 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.000 In this episode, we were talking to two radical King 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.920 practitioners about how they came to know themselves and the 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:25.760 benefits and risks involved in living their kinkiest lives. Yeah. 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.240 In the process, we demystify what makes fetish such a 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:29.760 potent piece of our sexualities. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:31.320 What's your secret kink. 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.080 Or something you've always wanted to try? Don't worry, you 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.799 can share. You are among friends. Welcome to Stiffy's Cruising Confessions. 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:38.640 I am Gabe Goins. 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:43.560 I'm Chris Patterson Rosso. Each week we explore the sublime 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.920 world of queer sex, cruising and relationship. 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:47.799 Will be talking to queer folks of all kinds, ask 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:51.600 them questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations. A lot 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.079 of us are discovering ourselves in cruising spaces. 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:56.240 This happened to me at this toilet stall, in the 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:57.560 library or the airport. 0:02:57.639 --> 0:02:59.639 I feel like everybody's gonna fuck a little harder here, 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:02.720 So I haven't like the neighborhood slot and I took 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:04.160 pride in that I was. 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.760 So afraid but yet so intrigued. 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:08.840 And the more I gave him, the more he could take. 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.240 If you're having sex on Sniffy's, you already have a 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:14.120 moral deficit. 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.920 Our first guest is someone who gets woofed out wherever 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:23.440 he goes. Chipper is a Brooklyn based handler and leatherman 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:25.440 with multiple BDSM identities. 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.960 Chipper hosts educational and social events in and around New 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.840 York City that facilitate connections with the humans behind the 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.240 put puts such as Pet Park and Cultured Pets. He's 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.520 co producer of New York's premiere pet play events, Brooklyn 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.400 Pet Play Weekend and Unleashed. 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.800 He was awarded the title of Northeast Handler in twenty 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.000 twenty three and recently won the title International Trainer twenty 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.600 twenty four at the International Peppy and Trainer Conference. He's 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.160 a grateful drug addict with years of sobriety under his belt, 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.320 and advocates for harm reduction and responsible alcohol and drug use, 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:59.040 as well as other forms of recovery. Please welcome Chipper. Hey, 0:03:59.080 --> 0:03:59.680 how are you doing right? 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.560 Hey? Where? 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:04.640 And how does your king journey start? 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:05.240 Well? 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:07.400 I feel like they're like two coming out right Because 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.040 like when I was younger, like my late teens, early twenties, 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:12.600 I didn't relate to myself as a kinkster. But he 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:14.160 was like one of those things that like, as I 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.800 looked back, I was like she was into some shit. 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.200 I've never identified as a monogamous person. I've always viewed 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.280 my polyamory as a part of my identity more than 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.520 just like a practice with someone, and so I never 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:28.719 felt like constrained to that. But I also grew up 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:32.440 in like a super conservative space, and one of my 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.359 survival mechanisms was like freak. 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:35.000 Them out, you know. 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:37.200 I was like, I'm going to be loud, I'm going 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:38.760 to be out there, I'm going to do what I want. 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:40.840 And so I was like the neighborhood slot, you know, 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.359 and I took pride in that, and I would like, 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.880 you know, blow guys in the parking lots or like 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:49.640 find whoever I could find. 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:51.000 Like I got pride from like. 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.640 Hooking up with people going to like their apartment and 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:57.080 realizing how that'd sack with everyone else who also lived 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.880 in the apartment and that kind of stuff true Brooklyn Night. 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:05.840 Yeah, yeah, just like check chack check check before. 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:07.080 Yeah. 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.480 But I never viewed that is like something leading into 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:12.880 like or being kink per se. I also didn't have 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:16.120 the vocabulary or the understanding, you know. It was a 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.320 super download culture, and so I was also kind of 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.120 like introduced in like a bizarre way because it was 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:23.840 down low. There's like a lot of secrecy and not 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.400 a lot of conversation. It wasn't the healthiest like kink 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.159 space to be in. In my late twenties, I was 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.440 introduced to meth and that became like a huge factor 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:34.440 of a lot of things I did. For the first time, 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:36.960 I was like really high and fucked up one, you know, 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.040 and so I was introduced to a lot of like 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:44.480 water sports, fisting, a lot of power dynamics through that lens, 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.920 and I just wanted to disassociate right Like it was 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.320 like the acts with no substance. And so when I 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:57.080 got sober, it completely shifted everything and I became more 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.680 attracted to kink and the community aspects of and like 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:06.080 the full kind of practice of it, because I felt 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.479 so vulnerable as a sober person and I was like 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.160 I didn't feel comfortable to being that person. I was 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.520 in my twenties just putting myself in situations, you know. 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.680 The first time I did math, I was in Switzerland 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:19.840 having some drinks at a bar and this guy was like, Oh, 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:21.320 you're cute. You want to come do this? And I 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.280 was like yeah. And so I jump in a car 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.360 with someone who I like met like five minutes before. 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:26.920 You have me an hour and a half into the 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.279 middle of Switzerland. Who into this like mansion that we 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.119 show up to that no one is living in. Tells 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.600 me to like go up to the second floor. I 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:36.840 walk in and there's like an empty room with like 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.960 a tarp covering the complete of the floor and a 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:44.279 single plastic mattress in the middle. And I was like, fuck, yes, 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.440 I was so ready for it. Yeah, that's like the 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:48.920 kind of thinking I was in. 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:49.240 You know. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.920 I was so hungry for like experiences that went out 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.839 that took me outside of myself. And then so getting 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.240 sober is the opposite. Like I was looking for experience, 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:02.440 it took me inside of myself, and I needed the 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.680 safety and security. I needed the conversations. I needed the 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.279 spiritual connection because so much of my king practice like sure, 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:11.360 I get off, I like to have fun, I like 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.800 to come, I like other people to come, but sometimes 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.160 it's like not about that, like it's totally about like 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.880 this kind of spiritual connection or intimate connection with someone else, 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.040 and so that's been. 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:24.200 Like a game changer for me. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.040 You know, what did it look like in the beginning 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.240 of versus variety to sort of like engage in these 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.320 king spaces sober? I know, for myself it took a 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:38.000 lot of like conversations with people about like I don't know, 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.640 negotiating what I will allow, what I won't allow, what 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:42.600 spaces are safe for me, what or not safe for me? 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.320 How do I get myself out of a situation that 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.680 I may not want to be in right, and also 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.040 just being comfortable to do the things right because like 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:52.960 you so much of my kink starter while I was 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:56.040 using math and like that's a total brain fuck, you know, 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.720 And do I still like these things? Was a question 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:01.880 I was having, you know, and like trying to find 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.480 those people that are okay with me exploring these things 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.120 and potentially having to pull out because I was like, 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:08.240 you know what, this is too much? 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:09.320 What was your experience with that? 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:11.360 So I didn't have sex like the first six months, 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:12.840 and then I was like it was very clear that 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.800 was also not a winning strategy for me. Like people 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:22.040 around me were like, please fuck someone immediately, but I 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.960 didn't feel comfortable just going on the apps or going 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.600 to like online spaces or just meeting people. I didn't 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.600 want to be at bars, you know, and so like 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.320 it became so much more limited, and I feel like 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.320 going to places where I knew there'd be other sober 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:38.280 people or engaging became safer for me. And I also 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.000 wasn't sure what I could handle anymore. Like, you know, I, 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.560 for example, I've not been a fisting bottom since I 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.400 got sober, you know, I'm a fisting top, but it's 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.040 just like something that's not come back for me, or 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:51.920 maybe it was never a thing that I was actually 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.880 into his bottom, you know, And so I had to 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:56.439 like relearn that. And the best way to do is 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.240 people who know what they're doing, right, And so it 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:01.400 became really clear to me really quickly that the people 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.319 at the Skills like help me navigate my own experiences 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.080 with the people who were in the BDSM world. And 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.080 so immediately I was like, ah, like these people like 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:14.040 get it. And so I actually felt safer to explore 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:17.079 my kink side a lot more than just like fucking 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.280 or sacks. Outside of that, like it became much more integrated, 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:22.440 and that's a big thing. What got me into puppy 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:26.280 play because I feel like puppy play it's a very welcoming, 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.640 easy space that doesn't follow a lot of the protocols 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:31.760 that all the traditions do, and so it felt like 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.559 easy to like navigate into and find community into, which 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:37.280 gave me access to a lot of people who are 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:38.240 doing really cool things. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.520 So I'm curious you were telling us a bit about 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:42.880 entering the world of puppy play. When were you like, Oh, 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.440 this is a community or rather in affinity groups that 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.320 I'm very interested in being a part of or participating with. 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.600 I was at work am I doing my barista job 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:55.680 in Brooklyn, as people do, and I met a pop 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:57.440 and I was interested, and then he invited me to 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.520 come hang out. And what attracted me to the whole 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:04.360 thing immediately was like the sense of like playful brotherhoodness, 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.520 Like I you know, it wasn't an accident that I 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.280 ended up being an addict, Like my whole life is 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.840 filled with like me escaping myself, me being awkward and 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:16.920 young and not able to like handle the world as 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.880 it was, And so it was like an I the 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:21.840 connection of it was like rid is here to like 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.800 pretend to be dogs with each other, you know, like 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.560 there's really nothing. The whole point is that I don't 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:29.720 have to worry about if this person likes me, or 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.080 if I have to pay bills or if you know, 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:33.800 I can put on a hood and kind of like 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.640 block out the rest of the world and just like 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.480 snuggle and cuddle and wrestle with some other people. And 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.960 it was just so energizing, you know, to just be 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.319 in this like freeing space. Like it was the first 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.160 time I really felt like I gave myself permission to 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:51.319 like let go of who I was and that I 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.040 could be like something completely I made up, you know, 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.040 And that's like so much of my journey and so 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:58.560 many things they do is that like how can I 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.360 give myself permission to have this ence and allow myself 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:04.240 to enjoy it if I if I do enjoy it, 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.240 because sometimes I don't always, But it was the first 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:07.840 one I was just like, oh, this clicked. 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:08.280 You know. 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.719 It's not like I'm only into pet play and that's 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.160 the only thing I do. Like, there's so many things 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:15.439 that cross over, like as meeting Rubber Pops and getting 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.120 into like like power dynamics with then pop play, which 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.600 can be like more soft on rather than hard depending 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.080 everyone's different. I'm not going to speak on anyone's behalf, 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.440 but people, there was just so much crossover that just 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.040 kept me coming back, you know, and kept me interested 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:31.040 in what the scenes could look like. Uh and and 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.280 that just got me more knowledge, more integrated until suddenly, 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.439 like a friend was like, you realize you're the inside, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.199 you know. I was like, oh, you know, like as 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.760 I always envisioned myself as someone on the outside trying 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:43.560 to get in, and they're like, no, actually, you're the 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:46.520 person on the inside. And I just started doing events, 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:48.880 you know, and that just led to one thing, led 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:50.400 to the next thing, led to the next thing. 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.440 How much does sex play a part in pet play? Yeah, 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:55.000 it depends. 0:11:55.480 --> 0:12:00.199 What's interesting is that there's a pretty decent like a 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.560 sexual community in the pop world that crosses often not 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.040 always with like furries as well. Like there's a lot 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.720 of shared interest there. Unleashed, which is the peblic party, 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.400 is specifically about how many ways can we get you 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.400 in the headspace and a shared experience. We actually make 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.320 space and Unleashed for asexual pops until midnight, there's certain 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.040 areas where you know you're not going to see genitals 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:23.840 out where you know you're not going to see sex 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.000 explicitly happening. And there are people who come for that 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:27.959 hang out and want to socialize, be a puppy in 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.240 the marsh, and then when midnight hits, they go, i'll 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.280 see you later, thanks for the party, have a good one. 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.000 And the people who want to have sex do And 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.240 that can look in so many, so many different ways. 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.600 Right did you say mash Yeah, mash like a like 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:45.720 a mashpit. No, okay, that's yeah. This is the way 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.480 I define a marsh is think of taking your dog 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:55.520 to the dog park. So it's a space that's provided 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.880 with mats, and people come with like their gear and 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.120 they go into like dog headspace or whatever animal that 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.360 person might be, and you play, you know, so you 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.520 can play with a trainer like me, or you can 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:08.480 play with other dogs, you play with toys. You can 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.160 just sleep in the corner and do nothing, you know. 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.760 I know. I was like, if if I went, I 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.120 think that'd be me. Yeah, I'd be the sleepy puppy 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:18.720 for sure. 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:19.360 Yeah. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.640 It's an opportunity to allow like the one and one 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.680 play between like a trainer or a handler and a pet. 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:26.560 Except in a social context. 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.360 Do you feel like folks show up to these events 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.200 with like a partner and a pre established dynamic or 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:36.120 do you ever have like handlers and pups or pets 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.839 meet at these events and kind of like navigate the 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.400 powerplay dynamic with each other in real time, like. 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.960 Showing up independently and right cool? 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, both cool. But there's a shortage of 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.520 handlers that gives a shortage of tops, you know. 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.600 And I love this. Brooklyn is really down. 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:58.600 Where are the doms at? 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.000 I know I have become a verse by accident. 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.440 Everyone's like, you're just so short, and I was like, fine, 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.000 I'll do both, and here we are. 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.239 Yeah, of course, I mean I love a short. 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:16.800 Top, I know'd. 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:19.160 Yeah, So it's a mix. 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.400 Like some people have a pre established dynamic and they come, 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:22.720 but a lot of people don't. There's a lot of 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:24.600 straight dogs out there and a lot of people who 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.560 are interested in what puppy play is. I think it's 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.680 cute or like they like some of the light subdom 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.320 potential that's in it, but they don't really know how 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.400 to enter into it. So it's like a good opportunity 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:40.880 to like see people meet people, to see what's going on, 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.000 and depending on the space, like how far are they 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.480 getting the negotiating that. Like, I've definitely had an experience 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.120 of like fascination in Boston where I met a dog 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:52.840 I didn't I didn't even see their face until like 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:54.680 later in the night, like they were there, and I 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.240 started like playing with them as a handler, and it 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.520 was just like I got to go handler headspace, you know, 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:03.960 where I was just like taking care and playing and 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.080 giving commands and like just seeing the level of obedience 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.120 and had to like improve their performance. And I was 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:10.960 just like so into it. And I had not met 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.320 that person prior to that, And so there's opportunities kind 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.800 of come up in the space from the play side 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.240 as well as like, well, all this horny is fun. 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.680 What's so interesting to me is that like, as we're 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.440 making room for people who are interested in kinks but 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.240 not sex, there's also space for that, particularly with PEP play, right, 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.440 that it is more about these dom sub dynamics as 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.320 they manifest socially rather than like, oh, this is going 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.000 to be something where I'm like penetrating you by the end, 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.080 which maybe you are right, but the fact that the 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.680 there's a spectrum of possibilities. There's really interesting for me 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.160 because I always assumed I was like, oh, kinks are 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.200 involved sex and sexual activity. 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.640 Yeah, I mean I think pep play is like anything else. 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.040 Like I mean there's a dom who I play with 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.400 an impact who I am not sure he's ever penetrated me, 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:02.120 you know, Like the scene is purely about the impact 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:03.480 and the power. I mean to drink his piss. 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:12.560 So that's but there's some exchange. 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:11.760 But it's it's not about the penetration. It's not about 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.080 the orgasm. It's like literally like what we're there to do, 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.360 you know, And it's about the dynamic, what's happening, how 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:17.960 we're present for each other, where we can take each 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.920 other and pet plays no different than that, and so 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.760 like yeah, like for me, like my idea of a 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.160 treat is going to be my dick or my toes 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.520 or my calm or my butt or some kind of 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:30.080 sexual thing. 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:30.440 That's me. 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.240 I'm a very sexual person. But some people just want 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.040 like Scooby snacks, you know, or some people want like 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.920 a chew toy, And that's completely valid sufficient you know 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:44.520 what I mean, it doesn't it's just like what anyone's 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.720 seeking to gain from that experience and what gives them 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.840 like satisfaction and joy, because like that's what's like. Pet 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.560 play is so fun and silly, because it's like what 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.680 would give you joy, Like what would make you be 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.160 like good boy and be like fuck, yes, I wanted 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.800 this so much. It's completely open, and it could be 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.200 in distinct to the person or the pup or pet 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:05.360 who wants it. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.800 I feel like pep play has become more visible for 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:10.800 me recently. I don't know if that's a mean thing 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:12.840 or if it's like a true phenomenon that more people 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:14.600 are exploring it. But I do see a lot of 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.600 pup masks in public, and obviously they're. 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:19.600 Like at the gym truly yeah yeah, yeah. 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.280 Walking around Brooklyn, like at the Eagle. 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.359 I think puppy has blown up so much for a 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:29.159 few reasons. One is COVID, like people are locked up instapups, 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.639 you know, became a thing. People are like, this is 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.960 a cute visual aesthetic. I can get any color I 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.480 want from a whole bunch of leather brands and be 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.320 cute and fun and sexy, and that's valid, you know. 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.639 And so I think that brought up in the public 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.399 eye a lot more. In addition, it doesn't have the 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.840 kind of stigmas that as I feel like the fetish 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:55.879 world has like embraced inclusivity around race, gender sexuality, that 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.159 you know, there's no if you're a boy, it's like 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.240 a very specific thing. It's like a handbook, this is 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.439 you be boy, and you can of course, you make 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.400 it your own and you shift it. But with pop 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.200 it's so much more open ended, and I think that 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.320 a lot of people are attracted to the ability to 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.640 have their own agency, even within a scene that might 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.040 be pre arranged. That's why I'm like proud to be 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.080 a part of the leather community, you know, because people 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:24.440 are adapting and changing and with the times. I'm cautious 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:26.480