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Speaker 1: UM, A couple of years ago, you guys embraced UH

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Speaker 1: salary transparency and and one I want you to talk

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Speaker 1: about why, why that's important or was important for you guys,

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Speaker 1: and steps to doing that well, because I imagine there's

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Speaker 1: um a large opportunity there to cause more ruckis in

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Speaker 1: the beginning, you know, especially in the beginning. But what

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Speaker 1: are the lasting implications of doing that both on the

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Speaker 1: positives hide and negative side and steps to doing it well? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So just for context, we did it in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and sevent team, so it's been in place since then.

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Speaker 1: The reason we did it was for equity, racial and

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Speaker 1: gender equity. Lots of great companies, lots of bad companies.

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Speaker 1: We're paying people different depending on their gender. Lots of

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Speaker 1: well intentioned companies didn't want to do that, but they

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Speaker 1: allowed for some negotiation. And so for example of you

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Speaker 1: are are if you negotiate a five percent higher salary

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Speaker 1: than I do, right for the same position, same work.

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Speaker 1: Five years later, you've done fantastic work. You've both gotten

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Speaker 1: promotions and both got a bump every single year. That

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Speaker 1: difference than amplifies, Right, that's the problem. And then five

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Speaker 1: years later you have a company that says the employee says,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm being paid how much less? Now

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Speaker 1: the company has lost a valuable employee with all the

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Speaker 1: institutional memory that problem. So we want to avoid that,

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Speaker 1: and the quickest way we wanted to do it was say,

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Speaker 1: let's make it transparent, let's make internally transparent, and then

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Speaker 1: let's go through a process for engaging our employees to

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Speaker 1: make that happen so that there isn't a ruckus. So

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Speaker 1: what we did, basically, I just it's it's actually in

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Speaker 1: the book fairly explicitly. There's a step by step process

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Speaker 1: that we use that anybody can follow. But the first

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Speaker 1: thing we did was really simple, are you going to

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Speaker 1: leave if we make our salaries transparent? And now down

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Speaker 1: twenty people said no, we'll not and one person I'm

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Speaker 1: a little uncomfortable, but let's go for it, right, So

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Speaker 1: that's the first thing. The second thing was we involved

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Speaker 1: them in the solution. There's lots of research to do.

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Speaker 1: Is this the right solving? Are there other alternatives? What

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Speaker 1: other companies are doing this? But we had a committee

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Speaker 1: based on leadership and employees that participated. Why does that

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Speaker 1: matter because they're gonna bring different perspectives than I would

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Speaker 1: and whatever solution we come up with, they're going to

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Speaker 1: participate in. That's going to enable people to feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I designed this. Finally, the big actually the big part

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Speaker 1: of the work. We didn't have our leveling and we

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Speaker 1: didn't have our rubrics very well laid out. That took

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Speaker 1: of a seven month process. That took about four and

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Speaker 1: a half months to do that. Right, any companies should

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Speaker 1: have that anyway, regardless of whether good and salary transparent

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Speaker 1: or not. By the time we announced it for seven months,

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Speaker 1: the reaction was basically a whole hump it because we

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Speaker 1: brought everybody along for the ride. Um. We also did

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Speaker 1: one other thing that is a fun piece. It's called

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Speaker 1: the pre mortem. I talked about it in the book

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Speaker 1: as well, and it's basically a technique to basically it's

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Speaker 1: a technique to enable you to project into the future

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Speaker 1: and try and avoid problems. So the quick question you

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Speaker 1: ask is we did this, okay, team, it's three months,

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Speaker 1: three weeks before launch. I want you to project nine

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Speaker 1: months down the road. The thing is launched, It reached

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Speaker 1: all the people, etcetera, etcetera in nine months. It is

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Speaker 1: a complete disaster. Everything's gone wrong. Everybody hates us, We've

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Speaker 1: lost customer. Blah blah blah blah blah. What went wrong? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I usually start by saying, yeah, it was me.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't paying attention, I didn't answer that phone call.

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Speaker 1: Was sload respawn Right. It loosens people up a little

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Speaker 1: bit because what you're trying to do is have people

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Speaker 1: to be creative. Dan, it starts to come out well

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Speaker 1: and that stakeholder, we didn't talk to this person, We

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Speaker 1: didn't talk to Oh, we forgot this step. Once you

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Speaker 1: gather a bunch of those, you work backwards. So how

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Speaker 1: could we mitigate that possibility? It is amazing how many

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Speaker 1: things come up that you, even the most diligent person

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Speaker 1: did not think of because they didn't imagine the failure

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Speaker 1: case down the road. So that's what we did with

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Speaker 1: the salary recordees. But I'm sorry pay transparency as well. Um.

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Speaker 1: So we tested this thing and we iterated it, and

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Speaker 1: we continue to iterate to this day. It's black tech.

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Speaker 1: Green Money. Shared this podcast with the people you're closest

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Speaker 1: to