Speaker 1: From Mahard where Innovation, Money and Power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: I'm Caroline Heinde Bluemerg's world headquarters in New York.
Speaker 3: Ed Ludlow, He's off. This is bluemog Technology.
Speaker 2: Coming up Google, It unveils a host of updates to
Speaker 2: its AI products to show its offerings are enterprise ready.
Speaker 2: Or break down what came from the company's annual cloud
Speaker 2: computing conference. Plus Tesla maybe headed for another sales decline
Speaker 2: back to back as according to some analysts on the street.
Speaker 3: Or break down the outlook and.
Speaker 2: Here from the former CEO of Tesla and GM's cruise. Well,
Speaker 2: it resumes Robotaxi testing over in Phoenix after grounding its
Speaker 2: fleet last year. We'll discuss that and so much more
Speaker 2: coming up throughout this hour. But trading off by four
Speaker 2: tens percent on Bow, of course, maker of the seven
Speaker 2: three seven Max besieged with issues a near attack catastrophic
Speaker 2: incident earlier in January.
Speaker 3: January, of course, now.
Speaker 2: This is as we see the first quarter of sales
Speaker 2: for Boeing be what we think is the worst that
Speaker 2: we've seen all the way back to twenty twenty one
Speaker 2: people really seeing a slowing in production as well of
Speaker 2: seventy three seven maxes. Why because they need to make
Speaker 2: sure that the supply chain is ready, that they're managing
Speaker 2: to ensure that everything is safety first.
Speaker 3: For Boeing.
Speaker 2: More broadly, let's just dig into this story because it
Speaker 2: does have this technology element to it. Bloomberg opinion columnist
Speaker 2: Brooks Southerland is with us, I'm pleased to say, and
Speaker 2: let's just get to.
Speaker 3: This breaking news. And the deliveries from Boeing. They're poor.
Speaker 3: We probably expected it, we.
Speaker 4: Did, and I mean again, it's sort of a good story,
Speaker 4: bad story Boeing for Boeing here, and I mean, of course,
Speaker 4: the delivery numbers are not what they want them to be,
Speaker 4: not what their customers want them to be. But this
Speaker 4: is the result of the company really taking the time
Speaker 4: to hopefully get to the bottom of its quality control
Speaker 4: issues here. And remember, the FAA has capped Boeing's production
Speaker 4: rate at AB thirty eight seven thirty seven jets per month.
Speaker 4: Now they are nowhere near that pace right now, and
Speaker 4: it's going to slip even further because they're really trying
Speaker 4: to dial back on this concept of traveled work, and
Speaker 4: what that means is putting a priority on moving that
Speaker 4: plane through the production process, even if you don't have
Speaker 4: all the parts, even if the quality control isn't where
Speaker 4: it should be. Boeing is moving away from that. They're
Speaker 4: taking a step back and really trying to drill into
Speaker 4: safety and their engineering processes. Now that is a good
Speaker 4: thing in the long run, but certainly not going to
Speaker 4: show up in their delivery numbers right here in the
Speaker 4: short term.
Speaker 2: And let's just reaffirm what the delivery numbers are, because
Speaker 2: it's eighty three jets were delivered in the first quarter
Speaker 2: Lowes since the second quarter of twenty twenty one. Interestingly,
Speaker 2: twenty nine jets in March were sold.
Speaker 3: And that's twenty four to seven three seven Maxes.
Speaker 5: It clearly just shows the importance of.
Speaker 3: This particular model.
Speaker 2: And I'm noting that they were booking one hundred and
Speaker 2: thirteen gross orders in March and only two cancelations. Is
Speaker 2: any of this really putting off demand for the seven
Speaker 2: three seven max.
Speaker 4: I don't think that it is overall, because you have
Speaker 4: a duopoly in aircraft manufacturing and airbus is sold out
Speaker 4: of its marquee narrowbody jet model into the twenty thirty.
Speaker 4: So if you were an airline and you need planes,
Speaker 4: you really only have one option in the short term,
Speaker 4: and that is Boeing. And I think that, to your point,
Speaker 4: shows just how important this airplane is and how important
Speaker 4: it is that Boeing ultimately gets this right and gets
Speaker 4: to the bottom of what their quality control issues are.
Speaker 4: Now they are losing market share to Airbus. The Airbus
Speaker 4: has been able to pull ahead specifically in that narrow
Speaker 4: body jet market. They are winning more orders, but you're
Speaker 4: certainly not seeing demand fall off a cliff for Boeing,
Speaker 4: and I think that does provide some support but also
Speaker 4: some encouragement for the company to just try to figure
Speaker 4: this out and get the customers the jets that they
Speaker 4: want to buy. They want to fly from Boeing.
Speaker 2: And let's just dig into Airbus because we're anticipating deliveries there.
Speaker 2: In fact, it was under pressure more than the rest
Speaker 2: of the French benchmark earlier today.
Speaker 3: What are we seeing in terms.
Speaker 2: Of ultimate economic hit sentiment heading both Airbus and Boeing,
Speaker 2: And there's are any sort of tech angles we can
Speaker 2: weave in here.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think air travel demand has held up
Speaker 4: pretty well. I mean, even in this inflationary environment, you're
Speaker 4: still seeing strong demand for air travel. And you know,
Speaker 4: really both going and airbus have a demand problem or sorry,
Speaker 4: I have a supply problem at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: not a demand problem. And you know the onus is
Speaker 4: on them to be able to churn out these airplanes
Speaker 4: and give them to customers.
Speaker 2: Love having you on Bloomberg opinion columnists Brook Sutherland jumping
Speaker 2: on the latest delivery numbers. Let's get back to our
Speaker 2: bread and butter right now, though, because Google is having
Speaker 2: a big event surrounding cloud. It's in fact, I'm bailing
Speaker 2: a host of updates around its artificial intelligence offerings today
Speaker 2: and it's really trying to show how this technology is
Speaker 2: enterprise ready after well some pretty obvious mishaps earlier this
Speaker 2: year when it came to consumer use.
Speaker 3: That's bringing in Bloomberg's Davy.
Speaker 2: Albert and really Google's trying to shake off what has
Speaker 2: been happening earlier in the year when it comes to
Speaker 2: Gemini application across particularly image generation.
Speaker 5: How fit for purpose is it from an enterprise perspective?
Speaker 6: Yeah, Hi, happy to be here. Google is really framing
Speaker 6: these announcements as this is cloud's moment and enterprise, and
Speaker 6: it says that the same risks that were around for
Speaker 6: the consumer product are not really there for enterprise customers
Speaker 6: because marketers, you know, client cloud clients have a lot
Speaker 6: more controls over the outputs. Google has said that it
Speaker 6: is providing up to like nineteen fine tuned controls for
Speaker 6: people who use its enterprise enterprise platform, and so with
Speaker 6: that level of control, you can kind of make sure
Speaker 6: that the images and outputs that the AI is generating
Speaker 6: aligns with your brand's image.
Speaker 3: It's really interesting.
Speaker 2: Earlier today we were looking at how best buys integrate,
Speaker 2: integrating AI generator AI.
Speaker 3: Google a partner for them.
Speaker 2: Who are the kind of businesses who are adopting Google
Speaker 2: using Google Cloud as well to ensure that they got
Speaker 2: the compute power to be building generative AI systems themselves.
Speaker 6: It's a lot of startups actually AI generative AI startups
Speaker 6: in particular. One bit of news that came out today
Speaker 6: is that Google is continuing to sign up these kinds
Speaker 6: of customers for its cloud platform. So last year in August,
Speaker 6: Google said that it had signed up up to seventy
Speaker 6: percent of AI unicorns, and today they're saying that that
Speaker 6: figure is up to ninety percent of all generative AI
Speaker 6: unicorns are using its cloud computing services.
Speaker 2: Now interesting that they're really focusing on that particular area.
Speaker 3: I'm also just want to know how good it is, Davy.
Speaker 2: I mean, this has been the perennial issue many have felt,
Speaker 2: even though they were at the very well iterations of
Speaker 2: generative AIS because of the work and the R and
Speaker 2: D that Google did that got us to where we
Speaker 2: are today, but they've lost market share and mind share
Speaker 2: really to the likes of open AI.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 6: Google says that there are a couple of things that
Speaker 6: differentiates itself from the competition. So one thing that is
Speaker 6: pretty unique to them is that they have Gemini one
Speaker 6: point five pro that is underlying a lot of these
Speaker 6: AI offerings for enterprise, and that model has the longest
Speaker 6: context window. Google says of any AI model. It can
Speaker 6: process up to one million tokens at a time, which
Speaker 6: you know, tokens are essentially like words or pieces of words,
Speaker 6: and that means that marketers can upload audio files, photos, images, videos,
Speaker 6: potentially thousands of them, and that will be the basis
Speaker 6: from which the AI generates new content. Another thing that
Speaker 6: Google says is unique to them is that they are
Speaker 6: more open compared to other cloud computing platforms. And you know,
Speaker 6: Thomas Currian, who we spoke to ahead of the announcements today,
Speaker 6: didn't name any specific competitors, but that seemed to be
Speaker 6: referring to open AI. And you know, one thing that
Speaker 6: he emphasized was Google Cloud wants enterprise customers to be
Speaker 6: able to choose a platform, not an AI model. So
Speaker 6: within its platform, it actually makes available a bunch of
Speaker 6: different models, including anthropics and metas, and developers can pick
Speaker 6: and choose what AI models they want to use.
Speaker 2: A lot of this all comes back to chips, Davey,
Speaker 2: and it looks as though Google is focusing more on
Speaker 2: in house chips. It's notable that in videos down on
Speaker 2: the day, it's notable that Boomberg Intelligence is saying, look,
Speaker 2: there's a deepening relationship between Broadcom and Alphabet. What do
Speaker 2: you make of the chip move.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Google has long been working on its own chips,
Speaker 6: but you know, especially with the demand increasing for AI
Speaker 6: computing power, this is something that they can kind of
Speaker 6: bring get their experience, bring it to bear on this effort.
Speaker 6: So one of the announcements today was that Google was
Speaker 6: rolling out its own advanced chips and hopefully that will
Speaker 6: help it to compete with the likes of Nvidia and
Speaker 6: other chip makers. Google's cloud strategy and it's AI strategy
Speaker 6: on the whole appears to be let's have our fingers
Speaker 6: in kind of every pot and keep pushing the ball
Speaker 6: forward on AI to make sure that we remain relevant
Speaker 6: after having laid the groundwork for a lot of the
Speaker 6: AI innovations that we see today that are being used
Speaker 6: across all sorts of companies, including Open AI.
Speaker 2: Well, the event continues on the other side of America.
Speaker 2: David Albert, We thank you so much for bringing us
Speaker 2: all the latest coming out of it key cloud event
Speaker 2: for Google I. Meanwhile, coming up, Tesla's former CEO and
Speaker 2: co founder.
Speaker 3: Says it would be a shame that the EV.
Speaker 5: Maker scraps plans for a cheaper car.
Speaker 2: Will get his take on that and the EV transition
Speaker 2: more broadly, that's coming up next to the Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: Tesla once upon a time had a previous CEO, Martin Everhard.
Speaker 2: In fact, he was one of the true founders of
Speaker 2: the company. He said Tesla should rethink its plans to
Speaker 2: scrap the low cost electric car that seems to have
Speaker 2: been being reported on a plate that the company needs
Speaker 2: to focus on costs to keep it sales growing. He
Speaker 2: sat down on Bloomberg's has I'm in in Hong Kong
Speaker 2: and starting off on whether or not the EV transition
Speaker 2: is actually slowing down.
Speaker 3: Take a listen.
Speaker 7: I don't think that's true. Maybe Tesla is slowing down,
Speaker 7: but the whole industry has slowed down. I've noticed in
Speaker 7: the last year or two, particularly in the US.
Speaker 1: So yeah, And in terms of Tesla's own Brecknek growth,
Speaker 1: is that over some sap Perhaps yeah, it's done and dusted.
Speaker 6: I don't.
Speaker 7: I mean, looking at one small downturn, maybe it's over.
Speaker 7: Maybe it's not. I think in some ways it doesn't
Speaker 7: really matter because the EV phenomenon has taken over the
Speaker 7: entire auto industry.
Speaker 6: Well, we'll see.
Speaker 7: EV's coming out of China here like crazy in the
Speaker 7: next several years. The Korean evs are amazing, and even
Speaker 7: in the US there's many companies making EV stuff.
Speaker 8: So the current growth pace is going to be the
Speaker 8: new normal.
Speaker 7: I think that eventually we're going to see all of
Speaker 7: the cars replaced with EV's over the years, and who
Speaker 7: the players will be. Not everybody will survive. I think
Speaker 7: Tesla probably will.
Speaker 1: Do you do you buy the spin that perhaps Tesla
Speaker 1: is in between two growth waves.
Speaker 7: Maybe that's the way to look at it. I read
Speaker 7: recently that that Tesla has decided not to pursue their
Speaker 7: model to the lower end car because they don't think
Speaker 7: that they can compete with the lower end Chinese cars.
Speaker 7: I think it's a shame. They might want to rethink that.
Speaker 7: It seems like a better market than that gigantic truck
Speaker 7: they make.
Speaker 8: Why do you think Tesla is so reluctant now?
Speaker 3: I mean, and why has it been.
Speaker 1: So difficult and it's so slow to get to the
Speaker 1: cheaper versions of those evs.
Speaker 7: It's a new technology and it's difficult to drive the
Speaker 7: technology price down. It's you know, it's the profit of
Speaker 7: high volume. Sorry, the profit of high end luxury cars
Speaker 7: is much higher, and it's easy to make money in
Speaker 7: that space. But we want to move down into lower
Speaker 7: price markets. You need to have the ability to build
Speaker 7: at a very different level.
Speaker 1: So where is Tesla going wrong or where should Tesla
Speaker 1: be focusing on to get to where it needs to
Speaker 1: get to in terms of those cheaper models.
Speaker 7: Tesla needs to be focused on cost. Test needs to
Speaker 7: be focused on cost instead of focusing on technology for
Speaker 7: the sake of technology.
Speaker 1: Does it need new talent initiatives?
Speaker 7: Oh, I don't think so. I think they'll manage along
Speaker 7: just fine.
Speaker 1: In terms of Tesla's future, maybe five ten years down
Speaker 1: the road, where do you see Tesla Because some say
Speaker 1: that perhaps you know, it could be concentrating on EV's,
Speaker 1: but it could be other projects as well. How do
Speaker 1: you see Tesla in terms.
Speaker 8: Of growth in the next far to take.
Speaker 7: What I'd like to see is Tesla succeeding to make
Speaker 7: evs in the foreseeable future. I'd like to see them
Speaker 7: continue to make EV's and drive into the rest of
Speaker 7: the market spaces they aren't occupying right now. Whether they
Speaker 7: do that or not is not my safe.
Speaker 8: You were with Volkswagen for quite some time, in fact
Speaker 8: two years after you left Tesla. Yet when it comes
Speaker 8: to the EV strategy, they've not been able to replicate
Speaker 8: what Tesla has done.
Speaker 7: Why is that it, let's just say innovatives dilemma. Right,
Speaker 7: Volkswagen has been very, very successful, more successful than pretty
Speaker 7: much any other company making gasoline and decent powered cars.
Speaker 7: It's hard for a company like that to be pushing
Speaker 7: a technology that suggested buyers ought to buy something other
Speaker 7: than the cars that have been making the money for
Speaker 7: all these years. It's hard to be the ones who
Speaker 7: invent the technology that make your own products. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: The former TESA CEO, Martin Eberhard there along with our
Speaker 2: own has Linda I'm in. And now let's just come
Speaker 2: full circle with where Tesla is at the moment and
Speaker 2: maybe headed for in fact, perhaps vehicle sales declining in
Speaker 2: another quarter.
Speaker 3: So back to back drops.
Speaker 2: After surprising investors with that drop that we saw in
Speaker 2: the first three months of the year, it's at according
Speaker 2: to annis such as Robert W.
Speaker 3: Baird, lu Mergs Craig Trudell. Is here to sort of.
Speaker 2: Sum up what is the narrative in the market. Look,
Speaker 2: we almost front run this with the stock move the
Speaker 2: beginning of this year. We've seen Tesla significantly underperform and
Speaker 2: now that's starting to be born out in delivery numbers.
Speaker 2: Who thinks that this sort of decline is going to
Speaker 2: be continuing?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean this idea that Ben Calo at Robert W. Bird,
Speaker 9: as you mentioned, expects the second quarter to be another decline.
Speaker 9: I think, you know, just looking at the chart we
Speaker 9: have on the terminal with that story, it does speak
Speaker 9: to this idea that there will be, you know, at
Speaker 9: least in his estimation, a bit of a tick up
Speaker 9: in terms of, you know, just from the seasonally low
Speaker 9: first quarter. But to his point, the comparison from a
Speaker 9: year ago is tougher. And I think, you know, as
Speaker 9: you mentioned just earlier this year, you know, the stock
Speaker 9: was underperforming because we kept hearing analysts after analysts, you know,
Speaker 9: talk about this idea that the outlook for sales, you know,
Speaker 9: wasn't that great, and then you know, lo and behold,
Speaker 9: the company comes in way below analysts expectations. I think
Speaker 9: this really sort of leads people to second guests, you know,
Speaker 9: their assumptions for this company through the rest of the year.
Speaker 3: Let's just talk a little. This is a great street wrap.
Speaker 2: Bringing back does a wonderful job of summarizing what all
Speaker 2: the anists out there are saying, and many have been
Speaker 2: wanting to talk about this robotaxi focus versus perhaps the
Speaker 2: coln of no longer having a model to a cheap car.
Speaker 2: What do you make of some of the views on
Speaker 2: the ROBOTAXI.
Speaker 9: I think their skepticism is sort of borne out just
Speaker 9: from the year after year a pattern of Musk talking
Speaker 9: about robotaxis being just around the corner.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 9: I think we're actually coming up on the five year
Speaker 9: anniversary of Musk holding the first Tesla Autonomy Day when
Speaker 9: I remember, you know, covering this with Dana Hole and
Speaker 9: you know, watching Musks talk about this idea that you know,
Speaker 9: by the middle of twenty twenty, he was saying that,
Speaker 9: you know, the million Tesla's that were on the road
Speaker 9: were going to be capable of turning into robotaxis and
Speaker 9: that people would be able to even fall asleep in
Speaker 9: their car. Obviously that has not come to pass, and
Speaker 9: so you know, the expectation that Tesla is going to
Speaker 9: be able to deliver a fully self driving vehicle, you know,
Speaker 9: I think Wall Street's going to need to have some
Speaker 9: show there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for now, twenty buys on the stock, fourteen cells
Speaker 2: and a price target that does seem to be declining
Speaker 2: a little bit. Crater Deell, great to have you wrapping
Speaker 2: it up, thank you. Meanwhile, look, General Motors Cruise autonomous
Speaker 2: driving business, well, it's preparing to actually resume testing of
Speaker 2: their robotaxes with safety drivers and Phoenix. This marks a
Speaker 2: pretty important step in its attempts to restart service after
Speaker 2: grounding its fleet last year. Remember, the company is set
Speaker 2: to announce and begin the testing as early as today.
Speaker 2: In recent months, Cruise has been in talks with officials
Speaker 2: in twenty metropolitan areas where it previously ran cars or
Speaker 2: had started mapping in.
Speaker 3: Preparation to run them. This is really meg technology.
Speaker 2: Neuro One is a developmental stage company committed to brain
Speaker 2: impact technology and it's just completed its first surgery involving its.
Speaker 3: One RF ablation system.
Speaker 2: Now that's actually a device that can be used for
Speaker 2: mapping and then targeting brain areas with a normal activity.
Speaker 2: It's used to treat a range of neurological conditions such
Speaker 2: as Parkinson's disease. Please to say, joining us now as
Speaker 2: SEO of neuro One Medical Technology is Dave Rosa, And well,
Speaker 2: congratulations on this surgery that I understand occurred just as
Speaker 2: recently as yesterday. And I want to get your perspective
Speaker 2: on how big a seismic shift this is for you.
Speaker 10: I think it's a tremendous, tremendous accomplishment for the company,
Speaker 10: but I also think for the field. I mean, what
Speaker 10: patients have been dealing with that undergo these surgeries is
Speaker 10: they've had to come in for an invasive diagnostic surgery
Speaker 10: where the surgeon tries to locate the problematic area in
Speaker 10: the brain, and then those patients would be sent home
Speaker 10: and then rescheduled for a therapeutic surgery where another device
Speaker 10: would have to be placed to remove the tissue. And
Speaker 10: what we're able to do now with this technology is
Speaker 10: use the same device to do both in the same hospitalization,
Speaker 10: which we think will cut down on hospitalization, surgeries, and
Speaker 10: even cost for the procedures. So we think this is
Speaker 10: a major accomplishment.
Speaker 2: Putting chips or other devices within the brain. The oxygen
Speaker 2: seems to have been sort of sucked out of the
Speaker 2: room by companies such as Neuralink.
Speaker 3: And I'm interested.
Speaker 2: In your perspective actually put the context around this.
Speaker 3: How long has this been happening?
Speaker 2: How long have we been putting bits of equipment devices
Speaker 2: into the brain to be ensuring that we know really
Speaker 2: what's going.
Speaker 10: On there for actually many many years, So it's not
Speaker 10: new for brain mapping, and even with companies like Neuralink
Speaker 10: and synchron you know, putting BCI devices in patience to
Speaker 10: help them move a computer mouse by just thinking that's
Speaker 10: been done for quite a long time. I think the
Speaker 10: eloquence of how they're doing it now is much much
Speaker 10: different by using wireless systems or less invasive systems where
Speaker 10: you're able to place the devices through a blood vessel.
Speaker 10: So that's really where the advancements have come recently.
Speaker 2: You're putting electrodes in the brain, and I'm interested as
Speaker 2: exactly what the different products are that you're developing and
Speaker 2: what they actually do.
Speaker 10: Yeah, so the electrodes that we have and the goal
Speaker 10: of this company was to always be able to use
Speaker 10: the same device to do mapping, to do ablation, and
Speaker 10: to do stimulation, which is another therapeutic treatment for conditions
Speaker 10: like Parkinson's disease and even epilepsy. But really what excites
Speaker 10: me about the future of this technology is not just
Speaker 10: the things that companies like Neuralink are trying to accomplish,
Speaker 10: which is really be able to help people that are paralyzed.
Speaker 10: I think the next wave of utilization for devices like
Speaker 10: ours is to be able to deliver new gene therapies
Speaker 10: and drugs and deliver them precisely to the part of
Speaker 10: the brain that's causing the issues for patients, and then
Speaker 10: also be able to simultaneously monitor the see and then
Speaker 10: other indications, which I think again will be big opportunities
Speaker 10: or Alzheimer's primarily, and then also conditions like severe depression.
Speaker 10: Scientists have found the areas of the brain that control emotions,
Speaker 10: and there's also been some really exciting work done by
Speaker 10: the Mayo Clinic on improving short term memory using electrodes
Speaker 10: like this for Alzheimer's patients.
Speaker 2: Dave Rossa, we always wish the future was sooner than
Speaker 2: it currently is. Thank you for painting out exactly what
Speaker 2: neuro one is doing. Neurowan Medical Technologies, We thank you
Speaker 2: for the time. Welcome back to bluembg Technology and Caroline
Speaker 2: Hoid in New York. Quick check on these markets that
Speaker 2: are bouncing off for their loads. But suddenly we did
Speaker 2: get a turn in the equity market, and we're still
Speaker 2: under pressure by some four tenths percent on the Nasdaq
Speaker 2: one hundred, some of them momentum names in particular under
Speaker 2: pressure and thinking of Viner, thinking of Meta in particular
Speaker 2: selling off even as we see actually bon yields coming down,
Speaker 2: money going into the bomb market ahead of that all
Speaker 2: important CPI print coming tomorrow.
Speaker 5: Currently off for about four or five basis point when
Speaker 5: you can get a.
Speaker 2: Two year, but really across the curve, we're seeing a
Speaker 2: little bit of dip buying.
Speaker 3: We're seeing bitcoin under pressure. Is risk asset sell off.
Speaker 3: We're off almost four percent.
Speaker 2: We're going to be digging into bitcoin in a moment,
Speaker 2: but we'll off of those seventy three thousand dollars level
Speaker 2: highs sixty nine hundred and twenty three.
Speaker 3: Moving on some of the individual movers.
Speaker 2: I want to shine a light ones actually managing to
Speaker 2: be one of the biggest point contributors to the Nasdaq
Speaker 2: one hundred to day, we're up one point two percent.
Speaker 2: Many trying to digest really what the announcement in August
Speaker 2: surrounding Robotaxi innovation is going to mean for a company
Speaker 2: that maybe is pulling back a little bit on some
Speaker 2: of the cheaper offerings that they were planning, and really
Speaker 2: trying to read the room on where Tesla is going
Speaker 2: and how much they've been sold off already. Cisco getting
Speaker 2: an uplift from certain analysts Augustani liking it up two
Speaker 2: point two percent, really feeling that there's been too much
Speaker 2: bearishness around this particular name, Galaxy Digital interesting one of
Speaker 2: course traded over in Canada. We all know Mike Navogatsu's
Speaker 2: leading this particular business off by eighteen percent, hit hard
Speaker 2: while they're raising money one hundred and twenty five million
Speaker 2: dollars a bit. They're doing an all stock deal really
Speaker 2: with Cnical genuinity of buying up some of their overall
Speaker 2: stop managing to put this towards working purposes and ultimately
Speaker 2: continuing to keep on fueling the business. But we're off
Speaker 2: significantly on the back of that supply. So keep an
Speaker 2: eye on some of the crypto names, as crypto is
Speaker 2: indeed under pressure. And let's just dig in a little
Speaker 2: bit there, because while we've seen crypto selling off today,
Speaker 2: the momentum has been up into the right of late,
Speaker 2: and that's because we've had plenty to talk about from
Speaker 2: an ETF perspective.
Speaker 5: But also coming up in a couple of weeks that highly.
Speaker 2: Anticipated Bitcoin halving event, which as a history of lifting
Speaker 2: the price even more.
Speaker 3: And we're hoping there are.
Speaker 2: Hopes more generally that maybe the high in light of
Speaker 2: bitcoin's current rally and more than fifty percent or record
Speaker 2: high this year might actually still have room to run.
Speaker 2: What's exactly going on, Let's speak it all down and
Speaker 2: what the harving means.
Speaker 11: Take a listen on the horizon is a preordained event
Speaker 11: that will change the business of bitcoin forever. It's called
Speaker 11: the hea. It will become much more difficult for miners
Speaker 11: to produce new coins.
Speaker 3: After the having. Margins will be cut overnight by fifty percent.
Speaker 9: So the halving might be good for the holders, but
Speaker 9: it's not necessarily good for the miners.
Speaker 12: Some companies are either bulking up for scale or finding
Speaker 12: ways to diversify.
Speaker 2: Some companies that in the past we're bitcoin mining, they've
Speaker 2: shifted over to training these ever BIGGERAI models.
Speaker 12: This is kind of a moment for bitcoin that is
Speaker 12: arguably one of its biggest ever.
Speaker 11: Twenty one million that is the total number of bitcoins
Speaker 11: that can ever exist, and over nineteen million of those
Speaker 11: have already been awarded. The having is the mechanism designed
Speaker 11: to create scarcity and control Bitcoin's limited supply. It happens
Speaker 11: every four years, and when it does, all future block
Speaker 11: rewards are cut in half.
Speaker 10: The having is a natural phenomenon in bitcoin that disciplines
Speaker 10: the entire market and forces it to become more efficient.
Speaker 2: You can watch the rest of this episode on Boomberg
Speaker 2: dot com. But now let's dig into the harving and
Speaker 2: more broadly, the ecosystem a bitcoin with Rienasha, vice president
Speaker 2: of Operations of Products at Trust Machines. You build applications
Speaker 2: for bitcoin. It's all about a broadening out of the ecosystem.
Speaker 2: But Rena, when we go to the halving, how much
Speaker 2: of a fundamental lift will the speed.
Speaker 3: Do you think?
Speaker 13: Firstalent, thank you so much for bringing me here on today.
Speaker 13: I'd say bitcoin having is going to have a huge
Speaker 13: impact on bitcoin markets today. We are in a very
Speaker 13: unique cycle because we are ten days away from having.
Speaker 13: We're at an all time high, and a spa etf
Speaker 13: just came in America. So at this point, what I'm
Speaker 13: seeing is that the supply will be shunk. We will
Speaker 13: have less bitcoin entering in after April twentieth, but the
Speaker 13: demand is at an all time high from institutions and
Speaker 13: retails coming into bitcoin. What this means is that more
Speaker 13: people are going to be looking to bitcoin to turn
Speaker 13: it from a passive asset to a productive asset, and
Speaker 13: that's what our company trust machines. It's all about building
Speaker 13: real products to do more with their bitcoin.
Speaker 2: Go to the passive bit Though, with your experience of
Speaker 2: the head of the exchange of at Finance US, is
Speaker 2: it true that we've seen more institutional players come in
Speaker 2: or of late, have we just been powered by more
Speaker 2: retail accessing spot ets in the US for example?
Speaker 13: I think it's a little bit of built that we're
Speaker 13: seeing on the institutional side more and more coming in
Speaker 13: because they now have new access to bitcoin. But on
Speaker 13: the retail side are seeing new developments with bitcoin through
Speaker 13: Ordinals Bitcoin NFTs, and it is creating a brand new
Speaker 13: supply of artists and creators building with bitcoin to create
Speaker 13: a new form of art. This is a very different
Speaker 13: retail phenomena that we're seeing.
Speaker 2: Okay, different from the NFTs that we all love to
Speaker 2: talk about a.
Speaker 3: Few years ago.
Speaker 2: Reena, and I'm interested when you're thinking about a bitcoin
Speaker 2: network that many have thought of was usually look either
Speaker 2: something that you were gaming in some way. It was
Speaker 2: more of an asset that you bet upon or indeed
Speaker 2: stored value.
Speaker 3: If that was the way that you saw.
Speaker 2: It largely, you know this was something that wasn't being
Speaker 2: built on from a smart contract perspective that we saw
Speaker 2: over with ease. But you're trying to change the narrative
Speaker 2: around that a little bit, as you say, make it
Speaker 2: more productive. Where is the production coming from web three
Speaker 2: apps that are being built?
Speaker 3: What are the most nucrative for you?
Speaker 13: So I think if you were to think about bitcoin
Speaker 13: as a market opportunity, we have one point three trillion
Speaker 13: dollars in BTC as an asset class, so we have
Speaker 13: surpassed the store of value. But we're trained to move
Speaker 13: into now the medium exchange. If you were to build
Speaker 13: applications on top of bitcoin like layers like what lightning
Speaker 13: is building, or DeFi or stable coins or anything under
Speaker 13: the sun, you can have a larger economy as a
Speaker 13: flywheel on bitcoin. So think about this. All of the
Speaker 13: value is what we see on the surface, but the
Speaker 13: untapped potential of a one hundred two hundred billion dollar
Speaker 13: market is below the surface, and we are just scrapping
Speaker 13: the surface through new layered technology on bitcoin.
Speaker 3: Like what like what technology? What use cases?
Speaker 13: A lot of different use cases. The first is the
Speaker 13: idea of bitcoin. L two's Bitcoin is having a moment
Speaker 13: and a lot of people are thinking about how to
Speaker 13: scale bitcoin by creating new layers like what Ethereum has
Speaker 13: with Polygon or other l twos with bitcoin. This means
Speaker 13: that I can have smart contracts with bitcoin, meaning that
Speaker 13: BTC lightent capital that asset can be deployed directly into DeFi.
Speaker 13: RWA's thinking about tokens, treasury bills. Kind of the world
Speaker 13: is the limit on the idea of new products being
Speaker 13: built on bitcoin, but using most secure and stable blockchain
Speaker 13: in all of the world.
Speaker 5: So real weld assets a key focus.
Speaker 2: I'm interested in your business, in particular trust machines. What
Speaker 2: was it a revenue growth of you seeing how you
Speaker 2: managing to bring in money the same time as the
Speaker 2: costs there involved.
Speaker 13: There is always costs in doing any sort of business.
Speaker 13: There's no secret in that our product lines are very diversified.
Speaker 13: One of our products is the leading bitcoin while it
Speaker 13: calt leather meaning not your keys, not your crypto. We
Speaker 13: help Americans and people all over the globe get access
Speaker 13: to bitcoin and secure it safely here at home. The
Speaker 13: other product that we're building is a little bit revolutionary
Speaker 13: and very new. We are bringing the web to functionality
Speaker 13: of a tld SO a domain. If you say as
Speaker 13: a passport into web three and bitcoin, meaning I take
Speaker 13: my digital identity everywhere we go.
Speaker 2: Okay, feels like we need to get you on a
Speaker 2: little bit more to dig into my new digital identity
Speaker 2: and whether or not that's having just got my eye
Speaker 2: or not, Rienisha, I may please spend the tiety vice
Speaker 2: president of Operations and Products over at Trust Machines.
Speaker 3: Really fascinating across the cryptospa.
Speaker 2: I mean, while watching shares of Intel today, let's just
Speaker 2: keep an eye mo broadly on some of the chip
Speaker 2: makers as we see really a bit of a sell
Speaker 2: off that's.
Speaker 3: Been happening across the world.
Speaker 2: Now we're actually seeing a spike higher than the world
Speaker 2: of Intel right now, almost managing to trade flat on
Speaker 2: the day this as we see an announcement more around
Speaker 2: Goudi three. They're saying they're unleashing enterprise AI with Goudi
Speaker 2: three AI, open system strategy, New customer wins is what's
Speaker 2: coming out. This is Intel's vision twenty twenty four and
Speaker 2: really breaking down some of those proprietary rules they say
Speaker 2: to bring choice to enterprise generative AI markets. Isn't it
Speaker 2: interesting that seems to be coming on the same day
Speaker 2: as Google's announcements, and also they're teaming up with Broadcom,
Speaker 2: so we're just seeing a release of new AI hardware
Speaker 2: to compete within video in VideA. Of course, under pressure
Speaker 2: today this is blue made technology.
Speaker 3: Investing in privately held companies.
Speaker 2: It can be difficult for retail investors in particular, but
Speaker 2: Destiny Tech one hundred is trying to change that. It's
Speaker 2: a publicly traded closed end fund and holds shares the
Speaker 2: private tech startups think Stripes, SpaceX, Open Ai, Discord, Epic Games,
Speaker 2: and it trades publicly now on the New York Ticke
Speaker 2: Exchange under the ticker d XYZ.
Speaker 3: But it's investments are private. They're a liquid and the fund.
Speaker 2: Plans to expand its holdings to include stocks in one
Speaker 2: hundred startups now other the companies it has invested in
Speaker 2: cell or go public. The returns from those investments can
Speaker 2: be distributed shareholders as a divindard or indeed reinvested back
Speaker 2: into the fund. As you saw, it has been incredibly volatile,
Speaker 2: in fact paused several times today for trading, having risen
Speaker 2: about eight hundred percent in the last few trading days.
Speaker 2: But you want to get back to the opportunity of
Speaker 2: investing in the secondary market private companies.
Speaker 3: Drew Glover, I'm pleased to say is with us.
Speaker 2: He's partner at FIAT Ventures and founding partner of FIAT Growth,
Speaker 2: and that is where you help advise scale, bring to
Speaker 2: bear fintech companies in particular, you then get really close
Speaker 2: to them, understand he investment chunks. Secondary market is something
Speaker 2: you've been giving an eye on. What do you think
Speaker 2: of it?
Speaker 14: Yeah, so I've been keeping a close eye on this,
Speaker 14: mainly because we work with private companies, and I think
Speaker 14: what we've seen over the last call it, twenty four
Speaker 14: months is this shift from a momentum market into a
Speaker 14: fundamentals market and a lot of companies that were highly
Speaker 14: highly valued a couple of years ago have really been
Speaker 14: dormant in the private market. There's not haven't been a
Speaker 14: ton of IPOs. There's been a lot of companies building, optimizing,
Speaker 14: really trying to become profitable during this downtime. And what
Speaker 14: that's created is a lot of really incredible opportunities in
Speaker 14: the secondary market, but also, at the same time some
Speaker 14: not so exciting secondary market opportunities. Okay, and that is
Speaker 14: mainly because depending on kind of where the private market sits.
Speaker 14: There's always massive trends, massive things that drive over valuation,
Speaker 14: massive rounds, big valuations, And so you know what we're
Speaker 14: seeing in this market, in the secondary market right now
Speaker 14: is I think the really really educated buyers are making
Speaker 14: some really smart decisions, but it's still very easy to
Speaker 14: get caught up in the height of what some of
Speaker 14: these trends are AI.
Speaker 2: You know, I could talk to trying to tell me
Speaker 2: the open AI isn't a good deal in the secondary market.
Speaker 14: You know what, I actually can't tell you what the
Speaker 14: number is from an open AI standpoint, but the opportunity
Speaker 14: open AI has brings a number on their head that
Speaker 14: they still need to grow into. And when we're talking
Speaker 14: about trends in the private market, the valuations that are
Speaker 14: put out there are numbers that they expect companies to
Speaker 14: grow into. And so when you think about it, you're
Speaker 14: betting on the futures of a company versus some of
Speaker 14: these other ones that have done really well and have
Speaker 14: stayed really quiet, and because they're not public, the information
Speaker 14: on their success isn't as widespread, and so you really
Speaker 14: need to be an insider to understand where the value
Speaker 14: sits in the secondaries.
Speaker 2: So sort of a cautionary tale to retail investors who
Speaker 2: need to actually do a little bit more digging than
Speaker 2: just go to the most hype name on a five
Speaker 2: across headlines or indeed on social media.
Speaker 5: How do you start to get that insight?
Speaker 3: Where do you start peeling the onion.
Speaker 14: From Yeah, and so you know, I think you know
Speaker 14: there's a number of these different companies right now that
Speaker 14: are really kind of bringing together, you know, these consortiums
Speaker 14: of different private companies. Some are on the public markets,
Speaker 14: other ones are are are really just building different companies
Speaker 14: to kind of roll up some of these different pieces.
Speaker 14: I mean, you need to have you need to hash
Speaker 14: yourself to the attach yourself to the right minds that
Speaker 14: are that are leading this charge. Well at the same time,
Speaker 14: you know, you kind of just need to know the
Speaker 14: right people. You know, for example, I know the mafia
Speaker 14: of a number of different you know, really incredible companies
Speaker 14: that aren't quite public quite public yet. And you know
Speaker 14: that is just the nature of me being in San Francisco,
Speaker 14: you know, knowing a number of different people, but you
Speaker 14: really need to not only like know within your network,
Speaker 14: but you also need to stay close to the people
Speaker 14: that are living and breathing this every day. If you don't,
Speaker 14: you will get caught up in the hype cycle. The
Speaker 14: private company story in the mb kind of publication market
Speaker 14: that is the greatest story ever been told, because you
Speaker 14: don't have to work underneath the kind of public market
Speaker 14: scrutiny of how you really talk about your business to
Speaker 14: the world. So you know you can't get caught up
Speaker 14: in the hype because it can really hurt if you're
Speaker 14: trying to lead into the secondary space.
Speaker 3: Okay, so let's go for real versus hype.
Speaker 5: Where has been the real work been done?
Speaker 2: From a fintech perspective, this is your area of expertise.
Speaker 5: Is it B t C?
Speaker 3: Is it B to B where some of the.
Speaker 2: Company's been doubling down and generating revenue and actually profits.
Speaker 3: Stare I say it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 14: So I think I think there's some big opportunities from
Speaker 14: a secondary standpoint in the direct to consumer space. I
Speaker 14: think what happened in this transition from momentum to fundamentals
Speaker 14: is a lot of people rode off large neobanks, a
Speaker 14: lot of people wrote off a lot of the really
Speaker 14: large consumer plays in fintech. And don't get me wrong,
Speaker 14: some aren't doing very well. Some are doing better than
Speaker 14: you could ever imagine.
Speaker 2: Is there a discerning trend as to which ones are
Speaker 2: doing better than you'd ever imagine?
Speaker 14: Yeah, well, in terms of in terms of trends, again,
Speaker 14: this is information that that's just like not widely available. However,
Speaker 14: you know what's happened is is what was happening before.
Speaker 14: What was happening before is we were really in the
Speaker 14: middle of a brand war. It was a number of
Speaker 14: different neo banks and consumer FinTechs that were all just
Speaker 14: competing to have the biggest brand, and that meant they
Speaker 14: were just spending a ton of money on Facebook and Instagram.
Speaker 14: And then once the momentum market shifted into the fundamentals market,
Speaker 14: you know, we pulled back on spends a little bit
Speaker 14: and we started looking internal to the business. How can
Speaker 14: we make it so we're not just building a company
Speaker 14: just based off interchange, you know, how do we make
Speaker 14: it so we can get more products in front of
Speaker 14: our different users and make recommendations maybe driven by AI
Speaker 14: that will help improve their financial health and their financial life,
Speaker 14: and really building internally to build additional products to drive
Speaker 14: revenue and build existing growth growth channels within the existing
Speaker 14: network to make it so we can drive more profitability,
Speaker 14: drive more revenue, drive more value to the end user.
Speaker 14: And so what's been happening from a private market perspective
Speaker 14: is these engines that were one note have now created
Speaker 14: multiple engines within their business to create long lasting value.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is we might well get a public exit
Speaker 2: from a key fintech And I'm thinking of Klana.
Speaker 3: Everyone wants to see what.
Speaker 2: Stripe's going to do at some time, but the buyd
Speaker 2: how pay later ship is where Karana is wrapped up.
Speaker 2: They're also talking a very interesting general to AI game
Speaker 2: at the moment and the productivity they're seeing that is
Speaker 2: that going to be an opening for other companies that
Speaker 2: you're currently advising and taking states in.
Speaker 5: Will there be more fintech companies going public?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 14: So I think there will be more FinTechs going public. Again,
Speaker 14: we're talking about a cohort that's been around for the
Speaker 14: last you know, fifteen years, you know, because old Yeah,
Speaker 14: a lot of these folks were hoping to go public
Speaker 14: a couple of years ago. And you know, what they've
Speaker 14: really done, like I was saying, is really you know,
Speaker 14: optimize the engine that they've been building. I think Klaranna
Speaker 14: is a really interesting one. I mean, like hot take here,
Speaker 14: Like I don't think there's going to be a lot
Speaker 14: of other by now pay later businesses that they get
Speaker 14: to reach the IPO space to about it. It's it's
Speaker 14: it is crowded, but at the same time it's a
Speaker 14: capital intensive business. From the standpoint of one, you need
Speaker 14: to really market it as a brand. Although it's a
Speaker 14: B two B two C product meaning I'm selling to
Speaker 14: a business and I'm trying to own real estate on
Speaker 14: their checkout page. When us as consumers land on that
Speaker 14: checkout page and we see a firm or Klarna, we
Speaker 14: need to feel confident in that brand for us to
Speaker 14: go into debt with that brand. So that's one piece
Speaker 14: is just like the brand side. The other one is
Speaker 14: it's a it's a debt facility. And one thing we've
Speaker 14: seen is the debt facility market's taken a big hit
Speaker 14: in terms of these debt providers providing risk to other companies.
Speaker 14: I've seen this in the you know, the the very
Speaker 14: early stage market. I've seen in the high market, and
Speaker 14: what we've seen with Klarna is, you know, luckily they
Speaker 14: are so far along. What they really are is they're
Speaker 14: an underwriting tool just like a firm. They're able to
Speaker 14: offer they're able to offer micro lending options for no
Speaker 14: interest at all, although they did just they just did
Speaker 14: just input a late fee charge. You know, there's some
Speaker 14: things that they're doing that try to optimize. We talked
Speaker 14: about AI. They're also potentially laying off seven hundred different
Speaker 14: folks to bring chat GPT in as their customer service
Speaker 14: arm of the business, which they've run some really interesting
Speaker 14: tests on that have been really successful. But to get
Speaker 14: to that stage you have to raise billions of dollars.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll get you back on as and when that
Speaker 2: goes public and what are the new ones to keep
Speaker 2: enough on? Drew Glover, partner at Fiat Venture's funding partner
Speaker 2: at fat Growth.
Speaker 3: We thank for his time.
Speaker 15: Last year it was about a chief supply. People could
Speaker 15: not get enough in video chefs. Particularly this year is
Speaker 15: starting to transition to a voltage transformer supply. If you
Speaker 15: look out a year or two or certainly three years,
Speaker 15: it's just electricity availability. So those constraints in the hardware.
Speaker 2: Side, you know, musk they're talking about chip supply shortage
Speaker 2: and the AI space in particular. Of course Tesla and
Speaker 2: AI Player, but so too is now Grok, which is developing.
Speaker 2: He was speaking on X yesterday with Nikolai Tangan is
Speaker 2: the CEO of Norgebag Investment Management. It manages about one
Speaker 2: point six trillion dollars in fact, in fact as the
Speaker 2: largest single owner of the world stock markets. Musk actually
Speaker 2: began the live discussion by talking.
Speaker 5: Up how well the service worked.
Speaker 2: Pretty soon the audio cut out on X and it
Speaker 2: happened again and again and going to we'll have to
Speaker 2: dig into it with Blueberg's BusinessWeek.
Speaker 3: Columist Max Chafkin.
Speaker 2: I mean, aside from technical glitches, Max, what was the
Speaker 2: key takeaway you think from that conversation.
Speaker 16: I mean, you know, Elon Musk has been in this
Speaker 16: conversation a couple other forums over the last week, been
Speaker 16: painting a very sunny picture of AI, particularly around Tesla,
Speaker 16: and as we heard here Grok.
Speaker 5: You know, he also, in addition to.
Speaker 16: Saying like we're getting past these chips shortages as you
Speaker 16: just heard, he said that they are using a huge
Speaker 16: number of Nvidia chips on the next version of GROC,
Speaker 16: which he also talked up. I believe he said twenty thousand,
Speaker 16: h one hundred chips, which you know, that's an insane
Speaker 16: amount of money. That's you know, each one of those
Speaker 16: chips is between like ten and fifteen thousand dollars, So
Speaker 16: it's a it's a huge sum of money. And I
Speaker 16: think the real question is how does grock XAI, which
Speaker 16: is Elon Musk's AI venture, how does it? How does
Speaker 16: he finance it? Does he raise outside capital? Does he
Speaker 16: somehow does it somehow get closer to Tesla or closer
Speaker 16: to Twitter now now called X. I think that's one
Speaker 16: big question because these large language models, as people know,
Speaker 16: are not inexpensive to train, and they are and they
Speaker 16: are not inexpensive to run.
Speaker 3: Elon's in damage control right now.
Speaker 16: Yeah, so we heard last week some really discouraging sales
Speaker 16: figures which Musk had kind of previewed, and then you
Speaker 16: had a report from Reuters saying that the model too,
Speaker 16: that's the inexpensive electric vehicle, was killed by Elon Musk.
Speaker 16: Elon Musk has disputed that, but he's sort of been
Speaker 16: edging towards a chain an emphasis in ESSENTI saying no,
Speaker 16: we're prioritizing the Robotaxi, which is this almost mythical product
Speaker 16: that he has been talking about for almost a decade
Speaker 16: and yet, on the other hand, does hold a lot
Speaker 16: of promise. You know, the people who are really bullish
Speaker 16: on Tesla see this as the key to justifying the valuation,
Speaker 16: so you can kind of understand the strategy shift.
Speaker 3: Max Chafkin, we thank him.
Speaker 2: This is blem back technology.