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Speaker 1: From Mahard where Innovation, Money and Power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

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Speaker 2: I'm Caroline Heinde Bluemerg's world headquarters in New York.

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Speaker 3: Ed Ludlow, He's off. This is bluemog Technology.

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Speaker 2: Coming up Google, It unveils a host of updates to

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Speaker 2: its AI products to show its offerings are enterprise ready.

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Speaker 2: Or break down what came from the company's annual cloud

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Speaker 2: computing conference. Plus Tesla maybe headed for another sales decline

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Speaker 2: back to back as according to some analysts on the street.

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Speaker 3: Or break down the outlook and.

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Speaker 2: Here from the former CEO of Tesla and GM's cruise. Well,

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Speaker 2: it resumes Robotaxi testing over in Phoenix after grounding its

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Speaker 2: fleet last year. We'll discuss that and so much more

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Speaker 2: coming up throughout this hour. But trading off by four

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Speaker 2: tens percent on Bow, of course, maker of the seven

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Speaker 2: three seven Max besieged with issues a near attack catastrophic

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Speaker 2: incident earlier in January.

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Speaker 3: January, of course, now.

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Speaker 2: This is as we see the first quarter of sales

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Speaker 2: for Boeing be what we think is the worst that

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Speaker 2: we've seen all the way back to twenty twenty one

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Speaker 2: people really seeing a slowing in production as well of

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Speaker 2: seventy three seven maxes. Why because they need to make

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Speaker 2: sure that the supply chain is ready, that they're managing

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Speaker 2: to ensure that everything is safety first.

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Speaker 3: For Boeing.

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Speaker 2: More broadly, let's just dig into this story because it

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Speaker 2: does have this technology element to it. Bloomberg opinion columnist

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Speaker 2: Brooks Southerland is with us, I'm pleased to say, and

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Speaker 2: let's just get to.

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Speaker 3: This breaking news. And the deliveries from Boeing. They're poor.

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Speaker 3: We probably expected it, we.

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Speaker 4: Did, and I mean again, it's sort of a good story,

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Speaker 4: bad story Boeing for Boeing here, and I mean, of course,

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Speaker 4: the delivery numbers are not what they want them to be,

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Speaker 4: not what their customers want them to be. But this

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Speaker 4: is the result of the company really taking the time

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Speaker 4: to hopefully get to the bottom of its quality control

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Speaker 4: issues here. And remember, the FAA has capped Boeing's production

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Speaker 4: rate at AB thirty eight seven thirty seven jets per month.

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Speaker 4: Now they are nowhere near that pace right now, and

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Speaker 4: it's going to slip even further because they're really trying

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Speaker 4: to dial back on this concept of traveled work, and

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Speaker 4: what that means is putting a priority on moving that

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Speaker 4: plane through the production process, even if you don't have

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Speaker 4: all the parts, even if the quality control isn't where

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Speaker 4: it should be. Boeing is moving away from that. They're

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Speaker 4: taking a step back and really trying to drill into

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Speaker 4: safety and their engineering processes. Now that is a good

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Speaker 4: thing in the long run, but certainly not going to

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Speaker 4: show up in their delivery numbers right here in the

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Speaker 4: short term.

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Speaker 2: And let's just reaffirm what the delivery numbers are, because

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Speaker 2: it's eighty three jets were delivered in the first quarter

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Speaker 2: Lowes since the second quarter of twenty twenty one. Interestingly,

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Speaker 2: twenty nine jets in March were sold.

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Speaker 3: And that's twenty four to seven three seven Maxes.

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Speaker 5: It clearly just shows the importance of.

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Speaker 3: This particular model.

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Speaker 2: And I'm noting that they were booking one hundred and

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Speaker 2: thirteen gross orders in March and only two cancelations. Is

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Speaker 2: any of this really putting off demand for the seven

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Speaker 2: three seven max.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that it is overall, because you have

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Speaker 4: a duopoly in aircraft manufacturing and airbus is sold out

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Speaker 4: of its marquee narrowbody jet model into the twenty thirty.

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Speaker 4: So if you were an airline and you need planes,

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Speaker 4: you really only have one option in the short term,

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Speaker 4: and that is Boeing. And I think that, to your point,

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Speaker 4: shows just how important this airplane is and how important

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Speaker 4: it is that Boeing ultimately gets this right and gets

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Speaker 4: to the bottom of what their quality control issues are.

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Speaker 4: Now they are losing market share to Airbus. The Airbus

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Speaker 4: has been able to pull ahead specifically in that narrow

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Speaker 4: body jet market. They are winning more orders, but you're

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Speaker 4: certainly not seeing demand fall off a cliff for Boeing,

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Speaker 4: and I think that does provide some support but also

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Speaker 4: some encouragement for the company to just try to figure

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Speaker 4: this out and get the customers the jets that they

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Speaker 4: want to buy. They want to fly from Boeing.

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Speaker 2: And let's just dig into Airbus because we're anticipating deliveries there.

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Speaker 2: In fact, it was under pressure more than the rest

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Speaker 2: of the French benchmark earlier today.

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Speaker 3: What are we seeing in terms.

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Speaker 2: Of ultimate economic hit sentiment heading both Airbus and Boeing,

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Speaker 2: And there's are any sort of tech angles we can

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Speaker 2: weave in here.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think air travel demand has held up

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Speaker 4: pretty well. I mean, even in this inflationary environment, you're

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Speaker 4: still seeing strong demand for air travel. And you know,

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Speaker 4: really both going and airbus have a demand problem or sorry,

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Speaker 4: I have a supply problem at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: not a demand problem. And you know the onus is

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Speaker 4: on them to be able to churn out these airplanes

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Speaker 4: and give them to customers.

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Speaker 2: Love having you on Bloomberg opinion columnists Brook Sutherland jumping

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Speaker 2: on the latest delivery numbers. Let's get back to our

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Speaker 2: bread and butter right now, though, because Google is having

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Speaker 2: a big event surrounding cloud. It's in fact, I'm bailing

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Speaker 2: a host of updates around its artificial intelligence offerings today

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Speaker 2: and it's really trying to show how this technology is

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Speaker 2: enterprise ready after well some pretty obvious mishaps earlier this

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Speaker 2: year when it came to consumer use.

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Speaker 3: That's bringing in Bloomberg's Davy.

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Speaker 2: Albert and really Google's trying to shake off what has

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Speaker 2: been happening earlier in the year when it comes to

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Speaker 2: Gemini application across particularly image generation.

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Speaker 5: How fit for purpose is it from an enterprise perspective?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Hi, happy to be here. Google is really framing

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Speaker 6: these announcements as this is cloud's moment and enterprise, and

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Speaker 6: it says that the same risks that were around for

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Speaker 6: the consumer product are not really there for enterprise customers

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Speaker 6: because marketers, you know, client cloud clients have a lot

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Speaker 6: more controls over the outputs. Google has said that it

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Speaker 6: is providing up to like nineteen fine tuned controls for

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Speaker 6: people who use its enterprise enterprise platform, and so with

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Speaker 6: that level of control, you can kind of make sure

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Speaker 6: that the images and outputs that the AI is generating

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Speaker 6: aligns with your brand's image.

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Speaker 3: It's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Earlier today we were looking at how best buys integrate,

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Speaker 2: integrating AI generator AI.

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Speaker 3: Google a partner for them.

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Speaker 2: Who are the kind of businesses who are adopting Google

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Speaker 2: using Google Cloud as well to ensure that they got

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Speaker 2: the compute power to be building generative AI systems themselves.

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Speaker 6: It's a lot of startups actually AI generative AI startups

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Speaker 6: in particular. One bit of news that came out today

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Speaker 6: is that Google is continuing to sign up these kinds

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Speaker 6: of customers for its cloud platform. So last year in August,

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Speaker 6: Google said that it had signed up up to seventy

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Speaker 6: percent of AI unicorns, and today they're saying that that

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Speaker 6: figure is up to ninety percent of all generative AI

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Speaker 6: unicorns are using its cloud computing services.

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Speaker 2: Now interesting that they're really focusing on that particular area.

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Speaker 3: I'm also just want to know how good it is, Davy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this has been the perennial issue many have felt,

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Speaker 2: even though they were at the very well iterations of

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Speaker 2: generative AIS because of the work and the R and

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Speaker 2: D that Google did that got us to where we

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Speaker 2: are today, but they've lost market share and mind share

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Speaker 2: really to the likes of open AI.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 6: Google says that there are a couple of things that

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Speaker 6: differentiates itself from the competition. So one thing that is

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Speaker 6: pretty unique to them is that they have Gemini one

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Speaker 6: point five pro that is underlying a lot of these

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Speaker 6: AI offerings for enterprise, and that model has the longest

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Speaker 6: context window. Google says of any AI model. It can

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Speaker 6: process up to one million tokens at a time, which

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Speaker 6: you know, tokens are essentially like words or pieces of words,

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Speaker 6: and that means that marketers can upload audio files, photos, images, videos,

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Speaker 6: potentially thousands of them, and that will be the basis

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Speaker 6: from which the AI generates new content. Another thing that

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Speaker 6: Google says is unique to them is that they are

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Speaker 6: more open compared to other cloud computing platforms. And you know,

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Speaker 6: Thomas Currian, who we spoke to ahead of the announcements today,

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Speaker 6: didn't name any specific competitors, but that seemed to be

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Speaker 6: referring to open AI. And you know, one thing that

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Speaker 6: he emphasized was Google Cloud wants enterprise customers to be

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Speaker 6: able to choose a platform, not an AI model. So

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Speaker 6: within its platform, it actually makes available a bunch of

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Speaker 6: different models, including anthropics and metas, and developers can pick

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Speaker 6: and choose what AI models they want to use.

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Speaker 2: A lot of this all comes back to chips, Davey,

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Speaker 2: and it looks as though Google is focusing more on

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Speaker 2: in house chips. It's notable that in videos down on

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Speaker 2: the day, it's notable that Boomberg Intelligence is saying, look,

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Speaker 2: there's a deepening relationship between Broadcom and Alphabet. What do

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Speaker 2: you make of the chip move.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Google has long been working on its own chips,

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Speaker 6: but you know, especially with the demand increasing for AI

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Speaker 6: computing power, this is something that they can kind of

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Speaker 6: bring get their experience, bring it to bear on this effort.

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Speaker 6: So one of the announcements today was that Google was

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Speaker 6: rolling out its own advanced chips and hopefully that will

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Speaker 6: help it to compete with the likes of Nvidia and

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Speaker 6: other chip makers. Google's cloud strategy and it's AI strategy

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Speaker 6: on the whole appears to be let's have our fingers

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Speaker 6: in kind of every pot and keep pushing the ball

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Speaker 6: forward on AI to make sure that we remain relevant

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Speaker 6: after having laid the groundwork for a lot of the

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Speaker 6: AI innovations that we see today that are being used

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Speaker 6: across all sorts of companies, including Open AI.

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Speaker 2: Well, the event continues on the other side of America.

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Speaker 2: David Albert, We thank you so much for bringing us

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Speaker 2: all the latest coming out of it key cloud event

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Speaker 2: for Google I. Meanwhile, coming up, Tesla's former CEO and

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Speaker 2: co founder.

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Speaker 3: Says it would be a shame that the EV.

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Speaker 5: Maker scraps plans for a cheaper car.

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Speaker 2: Will get his take on that and the EV transition

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Speaker 2: more broadly, that's coming up next to the Bloomberg Technology.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: Tesla once upon a time had a previous CEO, Martin Everhard.

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Speaker 2: In fact, he was one of the true founders of

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Speaker 2: the company. He said Tesla should rethink its plans to

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Speaker 2: scrap the low cost electric car that seems to have

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Speaker 2: been being reported on a plate that the company needs

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Speaker 2: to focus on costs to keep it sales growing. He

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Speaker 2: sat down on Bloomberg's has I'm in in Hong Kong

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Speaker 2: and starting off on whether or not the EV transition

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Speaker 2: is actually slowing down.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen.

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Speaker 7: I don't think that's true. Maybe Tesla is slowing down,

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Speaker 7: but the whole industry has slowed down. I've noticed in

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Speaker 7: the last year or two, particularly in the US.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, And in terms of Tesla's own Brecknek growth,

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Speaker 1: is that over some sap Perhaps yeah, it's done and dusted.

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Speaker 6: I don't.

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Speaker 7: I mean, looking at one small downturn, maybe it's over.

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Speaker 7: Maybe it's not. I think in some ways it doesn't

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Speaker 7: really matter because the EV phenomenon has taken over the

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Speaker 7: entire auto industry.

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Speaker 6: Well, we'll see.

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Speaker 7: EV's coming out of China here like crazy in the

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Speaker 7: next several years. The Korean evs are amazing, and even

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Speaker 7: in the US there's many companies making EV stuff.

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Speaker 8: So the current growth pace is going to be the

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Speaker 8: new normal.

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Speaker 7: I think that eventually we're going to see all of

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Speaker 7: the cars replaced with EV's over the years, and who

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Speaker 7: the players will be. Not everybody will survive. I think

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Speaker 7: Tesla probably will.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you buy the spin that perhaps Tesla

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Speaker 1: is in between two growth waves.

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Speaker 7: Maybe that's the way to look at it. I read

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Speaker 7: recently that that Tesla has decided not to pursue their

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Speaker 7: model to the lower end car because they don't think

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Speaker 7: that they can compete with the lower end Chinese cars.

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Speaker 7: I think it's a shame. They might want to rethink that.

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Speaker 7: It seems like a better market than that gigantic truck

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Speaker 7: they make.

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Speaker 8: Why do you think Tesla is so reluctant now?

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Speaker 3: I mean, and why has it been.

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Speaker 1: So difficult and it's so slow to get to the

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Speaker 1: cheaper versions of those evs.

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Speaker 7: It's a new technology and it's difficult to drive the

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Speaker 7: technology price down. It's you know, it's the profit of

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Speaker 7: high volume. Sorry, the profit of high end luxury cars

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Speaker 7: is much higher, and it's easy to make money in

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Speaker 7: that space. But we want to move down into lower

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Speaker 7: price markets. You need to have the ability to build

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Speaker 7: at a very different level.

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Speaker 1: So where is Tesla going wrong or where should Tesla

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Speaker 1: be focusing on to get to where it needs to

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Speaker 1: get to in terms of those cheaper models.

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Speaker 7: Tesla needs to be focused on cost. Test needs to

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Speaker 7: be focused on cost instead of focusing on technology for

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Speaker 7: the sake of technology.

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Speaker 1: Does it need new talent initiatives?

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Speaker 7: Oh, I don't think so. I think they'll manage along

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Speaker 7: just fine.

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Speaker 1: In terms of Tesla's future, maybe five ten years down

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Speaker 1: the road, where do you see Tesla Because some say

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Speaker 1: that perhaps you know, it could be concentrating on EV's,

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Speaker 1: but it could be other projects as well. How do

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Speaker 1: you see Tesla in terms.

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Speaker 8: Of growth in the next far to take.

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Speaker 7: What I'd like to see is Tesla succeeding to make

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Speaker 7: evs in the foreseeable future. I'd like to see them

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Speaker 7: continue to make EV's and drive into the rest of

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Speaker 7: the market spaces they aren't occupying right now. Whether they

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Speaker 7: do that or not is not my safe.

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Speaker 8: You were with Volkswagen for quite some time, in fact

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Speaker 8: two years after you left Tesla. Yet when it comes

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Speaker 8: to the EV strategy, they've not been able to replicate

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Speaker 8: what Tesla has done.

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Speaker 7: Why is that it, let's just say innovatives dilemma. Right,

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Speaker 7: Volkswagen has been very, very successful, more successful than pretty

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Speaker 7: much any other company making gasoline and decent powered cars.

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Speaker 7: It's hard for a company like that to be pushing

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Speaker 7: a technology that suggested buyers ought to buy something other

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Speaker 7: than the cars that have been making the money for

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Speaker 7: all these years. It's hard to be the ones who

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Speaker 7: invent the technology that make your own products. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: The former TESA CEO, Martin Eberhard there along with our

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Speaker 2: own has Linda I'm in. And now let's just come

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Speaker 2: full circle with where Tesla is at the moment and

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Speaker 2: maybe headed for in fact, perhaps vehicle sales declining in

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Speaker 2: another quarter.

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Speaker 3: So back to back drops.

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Speaker 2: After surprising investors with that drop that we saw in

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Speaker 2: the first three months of the year, it's at according

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Speaker 2: to annis such as Robert W.

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Speaker 3: Baird, lu Mergs Craig Trudell. Is here to sort of.

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Speaker 2: Sum up what is the narrative in the market. Look,

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Speaker 2: we almost front run this with the stock move the

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Speaker 2: beginning of this year. We've seen Tesla significantly underperform and

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Speaker 2: now that's starting to be born out in delivery numbers.

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Speaker 2: Who thinks that this sort of decline is going to

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Speaker 2: be continuing?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean this idea that Ben Calo at Robert W. Bird,

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Speaker 9: as you mentioned, expects the second quarter to be another decline.

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Speaker 9: I think, you know, just looking at the chart we

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Speaker 9: have on the terminal with that story, it does speak

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Speaker 9: to this idea that there will be, you know, at

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Speaker 9: least in his estimation, a bit of a tick up

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Speaker 9: in terms of, you know, just from the seasonally low

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Speaker 9: first quarter. But to his point, the comparison from a

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Speaker 9: year ago is tougher. And I think, you know, as

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Speaker 9: you mentioned just earlier this year, you know, the stock

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Speaker 9: was underperforming because we kept hearing analysts after analysts, you know,

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Speaker 9: talk about this idea that the outlook for sales, you know,

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Speaker 9: wasn't that great, and then you know, lo and behold,

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Speaker 9: the company comes in way below analysts expectations. I think

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Speaker 9: this really sort of leads people to second guests, you know,

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Speaker 9: their assumptions for this company through the rest of the year.

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Speaker 3: Let's just talk a little. This is a great street wrap.

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Speaker 2: Bringing back does a wonderful job of summarizing what all

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Speaker 2: the anists out there are saying, and many have been

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Speaker 2: wanting to talk about this robotaxi focus versus perhaps the

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Speaker 2: coln of no longer having a model to a cheap car.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of some of the views on

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Speaker 2: the ROBOTAXI.

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Speaker 9: I think their skepticism is sort of borne out just

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Speaker 9: from the year after year a pattern of Musk talking

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Speaker 9: about robotaxis being just around the corner.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 9: I think we're actually coming up on the five year

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Speaker 9: anniversary of Musk holding the first Tesla Autonomy Day when

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Speaker 9: I remember, you know, covering this with Dana Hole and

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Speaker 9: you know, watching Musks talk about this idea that you know,

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Speaker 9: by the middle of twenty twenty, he was saying that,

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Speaker 9: you know, the million Tesla's that were on the road

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Speaker 9: were going to be capable of turning into robotaxis and

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Speaker 9: that people would be able to even fall asleep in

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Speaker 9: their car. Obviously that has not come to pass, and

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Speaker 9: so you know, the expectation that Tesla is going to

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Speaker 9: be able to deliver a fully self driving vehicle, you know,

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Speaker 9: I think Wall Street's going to need to have some

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Speaker 9: show there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for now, twenty buys on the stock, fourteen cells

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Speaker 2: and a price target that does seem to be declining

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Speaker 2: a little bit. Crater Deell, great to have you wrapping

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Speaker 2: it up, thank you. Meanwhile, look, General Motors Cruise autonomous

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Speaker 2: driving business, well, it's preparing to actually resume testing of

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Speaker 2: their robotaxes with safety drivers and Phoenix. This marks a

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Speaker 2: pretty important step in its attempts to restart service after

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Speaker 2: grounding its fleet last year. Remember, the company is set

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Speaker 2: to announce and begin the testing as early as today.

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Speaker 2: In recent months, Cruise has been in talks with officials

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Speaker 2: in twenty metropolitan areas where it previously ran cars or

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Speaker 2: had started mapping in.

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Speaker 3: Preparation to run them. This is really meg technology.

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Speaker 2: Neuro One is a developmental stage company committed to brain

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Speaker 2: impact technology and it's just completed its first surgery involving its.

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Speaker 3: One RF ablation system.

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Speaker 2: Now that's actually a device that can be used for

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Speaker 2: mapping and then targeting brain areas with a normal activity.

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Speaker 2: It's used to treat a range of neurological conditions such

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Speaker 2: as Parkinson's disease. Please to say, joining us now as

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Speaker 2: SEO of neuro One Medical Technology is Dave Rosa, And well,

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Speaker 2: congratulations on this surgery that I understand occurred just as

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Speaker 2: recently as yesterday. And I want to get your perspective

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Speaker 2: on how big a seismic shift this is for you.

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Speaker 10: I think it's a tremendous, tremendous accomplishment for the company,

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Speaker 10: but I also think for the field. I mean, what

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Speaker 10: patients have been dealing with that undergo these surgeries is

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Speaker 10: they've had to come in for an invasive diagnostic surgery

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Speaker 10: where the surgeon tries to locate the problematic area in

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Speaker 10: the brain, and then those patients would be sent home

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Speaker 10: and then rescheduled for a therapeutic surgery where another device

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Speaker 10: would have to be placed to remove the tissue. And

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Speaker 10: what we're able to do now with this technology is

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Speaker 10: use the same device to do both in the same hospitalization,

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Speaker 10: which we think will cut down on hospitalization, surgeries, and

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Speaker 10: even cost for the procedures. So we think this is

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Speaker 10: a major accomplishment.

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Speaker 2: Putting chips or other devices within the brain. The oxygen

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Speaker 2: seems to have been sort of sucked out of the

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Speaker 2: room by companies such as Neuralink.

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Speaker 3: And I'm interested.

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Speaker 2: In your perspective actually put the context around this.

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Speaker 3: How long has this been happening?

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Speaker 2: How long have we been putting bits of equipment devices

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Speaker 2: into the brain to be ensuring that we know really

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Speaker 2: what's going.

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Speaker 10: On there for actually many many years, So it's not

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Speaker 10: new for brain mapping, and even with companies like Neuralink

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Speaker 10: and synchron you know, putting BCI devices in patience to

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Speaker 10: help them move a computer mouse by just thinking that's

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Speaker 10: been done for quite a long time. I think the

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Speaker 10: eloquence of how they're doing it now is much much

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Speaker 10: different by using wireless systems or less invasive systems where

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Speaker 10: you're able to place the devices through a blood vessel.

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Speaker 10: So that's really where the advancements have come recently.

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Speaker 2: You're putting electrodes in the brain, and I'm interested as

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Speaker 2: exactly what the different products are that you're developing and

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Speaker 2: what they actually do.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, so the electrodes that we have and the goal

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Speaker 10: of this company was to always be able to use

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Speaker 10: the same device to do mapping, to do ablation, and

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Speaker 10: to do stimulation, which is another therapeutic treatment for conditions

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Speaker 10: like Parkinson's disease and even epilepsy. But really what excites

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Speaker 10: me about the future of this technology is not just

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Speaker 10: the things that companies like Neuralink are trying to accomplish,

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Speaker 10: which is really be able to help people that are paralyzed.

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Speaker 10: I think the next wave of utilization for devices like

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Speaker 10: ours is to be able to deliver new gene therapies

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Speaker 10: and drugs and deliver them precisely to the part of

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Speaker 10: the brain that's causing the issues for patients, and then

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Speaker 10: also be able to simultaneously monitor the see and then

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Speaker 10: other indications, which I think again will be big opportunities

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Speaker 10: or Alzheimer's primarily, and then also conditions like severe depression.

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Speaker 10: Scientists have found the areas of the brain that control emotions,

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Speaker 10: and there's also been some really exciting work done by

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Speaker 10: the Mayo Clinic on improving short term memory using electrodes

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Speaker 10: like this for Alzheimer's patients.

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Speaker 2: Dave Rossa, we always wish the future was sooner than

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Speaker 2: it currently is. Thank you for painting out exactly what

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Speaker 2: neuro one is doing. Neurowan Medical Technologies, We thank you

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Speaker 2: for the time. Welcome back to bluembg Technology and Caroline

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Speaker 2: Hoid in New York. Quick check on these markets that

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Speaker 2: are bouncing off for their loads. But suddenly we did

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Speaker 2: get a turn in the equity market, and we're still

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Speaker 2: under pressure by some four tenths percent on the Nasdaq

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Speaker 2: one hundred, some of them momentum names in particular under

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Speaker 2: pressure and thinking of Viner, thinking of Meta in particular

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Speaker 2: selling off even as we see actually bon yields coming down,

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Speaker 2: money going into the bomb market ahead of that all

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Speaker 2: important CPI print coming tomorrow.

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Speaker 5: Currently off for about four or five basis point when

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Speaker 5: you can get a.

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Speaker 2: Two year, but really across the curve, we're seeing a

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Speaker 2: little bit of dip buying.

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Speaker 3: We're seeing bitcoin under pressure. Is risk asset sell off.

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Speaker 3: We're off almost four percent.

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Speaker 2: We're going to be digging into bitcoin in a moment,

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Speaker 2: but we'll off of those seventy three thousand dollars level

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Speaker 2: highs sixty nine hundred and twenty three.

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Speaker 3: Moving on some of the individual movers.

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Speaker 2: I want to shine a light ones actually managing to

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Speaker 2: be one of the biggest point contributors to the Nasdaq

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Speaker 2: one hundred to day, we're up one point two percent.

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Speaker 2: Many trying to digest really what the announcement in August

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Speaker 2: surrounding Robotaxi innovation is going to mean for a company

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Speaker 2: that maybe is pulling back a little bit on some

439
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Speaker 2: of the cheaper offerings that they were planning, and really

440
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Speaker 2: trying to read the room on where Tesla is going

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Speaker 2: and how much they've been sold off already. Cisco getting

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Speaker 2: an uplift from certain analysts Augustani liking it up two

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Speaker 2: point two percent, really feeling that there's been too much

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Speaker 2: bearishness around this particular name, Galaxy Digital interesting one of

445
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: course traded over in Canada. We all know Mike Navogatsu's

446
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 2: leading this particular business off by eighteen percent, hit hard

447
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: while they're raising money one hundred and twenty five million

448
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 2: dollars a bit. They're doing an all stock deal really

449
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: with Cnical genuinity of buying up some of their overall

450
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 2: stop managing to put this towards working purposes and ultimately

451
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 2: continuing to keep on fueling the business. But we're off

452
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,959
Speaker 2: significantly on the back of that supply. So keep an

453
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 2: eye on some of the crypto names, as crypto is

454
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 2: indeed under pressure. And let's just dig in a little

455
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: bit there, because while we've seen crypto selling off today,

456
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 2: the momentum has been up into the right of late,

457
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: and that's because we've had plenty to talk about from

458
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 2: an ETF perspective.

459
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 5: But also coming up in a couple of weeks that highly.

460
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 2: Anticipated Bitcoin halving event, which as a history of lifting

461
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 2: the price even more.

462
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 3: And we're hoping there are.

463
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 2: Hopes more generally that maybe the high in light of

464
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 2: bitcoin's current rally and more than fifty percent or record

465
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 2: high this year might actually still have room to run.

466
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: What's exactly going on, Let's speak it all down and

467
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 2: what the harving means.

468
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 11: Take a listen on the horizon is a preordained event

469
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 11: that will change the business of bitcoin forever. It's called

470
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 11: the hea. It will become much more difficult for miners

471
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 11: to produce new coins.

472
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 3: After the having. Margins will be cut overnight by fifty percent.

473
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 9: So the halving might be good for the holders, but

474
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 9: it's not necessarily good for the miners.

475
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 12: Some companies are either bulking up for scale or finding

476
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 12: ways to diversify.

477
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 2: Some companies that in the past we're bitcoin mining, they've

478
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 2: shifted over to training these ever BIGGERAI models.

479
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 12: This is kind of a moment for bitcoin that is

480
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 12: arguably one of its biggest ever.

481
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 11: Twenty one million that is the total number of bitcoins

482
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 11: that can ever exist, and over nineteen million of those

483
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 11: have already been awarded. The having is the mechanism designed

484
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 11: to create scarcity and control Bitcoin's limited supply. It happens

485
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 11: every four years, and when it does, all future block

486
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 11: rewards are cut in half.

487
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 10: The having is a natural phenomenon in bitcoin that disciplines

488
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 10: the entire market and forces it to become more efficient.

489
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 2: You can watch the rest of this episode on Boomberg

490
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: dot com. But now let's dig into the harving and

491
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 2: more broadly, the ecosystem a bitcoin with Rienasha, vice president

492
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 2: of Operations of Products at Trust Machines. You build applications

493
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: for bitcoin. It's all about a broadening out of the ecosystem.

494
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 2: But Rena, when we go to the halving, how much

495
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 2: of a fundamental lift will the speed.

496
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 3: Do you think?

497
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 13: Firstalent, thank you so much for bringing me here on today.

498
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 13: I'd say bitcoin having is going to have a huge

499
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 13: impact on bitcoin markets today. We are in a very

500
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 13: unique cycle because we are ten days away from having.

501
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 13: We're at an all time high, and a spa etf

502
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 13: just came in America. So at this point, what I'm

503
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 13: seeing is that the supply will be shunk. We will

504
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 13: have less bitcoin entering in after April twentieth, but the

505
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 13: demand is at an all time high from institutions and

506
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 13: retails coming into bitcoin. What this means is that more

507
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 13: people are going to be looking to bitcoin to turn

508
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 13: it from a passive asset to a productive asset, and

509
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 13: that's what our company trust machines. It's all about building

510
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 13: real products to do more with their bitcoin.

511
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: Go to the passive bit Though, with your experience of

512
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: the head of the exchange of at Finance US, is

513
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: it true that we've seen more institutional players come in

514
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: or of late, have we just been powered by more

515
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: retail accessing spot ets in the US for example?

516
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 13: I think it's a little bit of built that we're

517
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 13: seeing on the institutional side more and more coming in

518
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 13: because they now have new access to bitcoin. But on

519
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 13: the retail side are seeing new developments with bitcoin through

520
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 13: Ordinals Bitcoin NFTs, and it is creating a brand new

521
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 13: supply of artists and creators building with bitcoin to create

522
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 13: a new form of art. This is a very different

523
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 13: retail phenomena that we're seeing.

524
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: Okay, different from the NFTs that we all love to

525
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: talk about a.

526
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 3: Few years ago.

527
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 2: Reena, and I'm interested when you're thinking about a bitcoin

528
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: network that many have thought of was usually look either

529
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: something that you were gaming in some way. It was

530
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 2: more of an asset that you bet upon or indeed

531
00:26:58,359 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: stored value.

532
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 3: If that was the way that you saw.

533
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: It largely, you know this was something that wasn't being

534
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 2: built on from a smart contract perspective that we saw

535
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 2: over with ease. But you're trying to change the narrative

536
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: around that a little bit, as you say, make it

537
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 2: more productive. Where is the production coming from web three

538
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 2: apps that are being built?

539
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 3: What are the most nucrative for you?

540
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 13: So I think if you were to think about bitcoin

541
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 13: as a market opportunity, we have one point three trillion

542
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 13: dollars in BTC as an asset class, so we have

543
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 13: surpassed the store of value. But we're trained to move

544
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 13: into now the medium exchange. If you were to build

545
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 13: applications on top of bitcoin like layers like what lightning

546
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 13: is building, or DeFi or stable coins or anything under

547
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 13: the sun, you can have a larger economy as a

548
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 13: flywheel on bitcoin. So think about this. All of the

549
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 13: value is what we see on the surface, but the

550
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 13: untapped potential of a one hundred two hundred billion dollar

551
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 13: market is below the surface, and we are just scrapping

552
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 13: the surface through new layered technology on bitcoin.

553
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 3: Like what like what technology? What use cases?

554
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 13: A lot of different use cases. The first is the

555
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 13: idea of bitcoin. L two's Bitcoin is having a moment

556
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 13: and a lot of people are thinking about how to

557
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 13: scale bitcoin by creating new layers like what Ethereum has

558
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 13: with Polygon or other l twos with bitcoin. This means

559
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 13: that I can have smart contracts with bitcoin, meaning that

560
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 13: BTC lightent capital that asset can be deployed directly into DeFi.

561
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 13: RWA's thinking about tokens, treasury bills. Kind of the world

562
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 13: is the limit on the idea of new products being

563
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 13: built on bitcoin, but using most secure and stable blockchain

564
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 13: in all of the world.

565
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 5: So real weld assets a key focus.

566
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: I'm interested in your business, in particular trust machines. What

567
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: was it a revenue growth of you seeing how you

568
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: managing to bring in money the same time as the

569
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: costs there involved.

570
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 13: There is always costs in doing any sort of business.

571
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 13: There's no secret in that our product lines are very diversified.

572
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 13: One of our products is the leading bitcoin while it

573
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 13: calt leather meaning not your keys, not your crypto. We

574
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 13: help Americans and people all over the globe get access

575
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 13: to bitcoin and secure it safely here at home. The

576
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 13: other product that we're building is a little bit revolutionary

577
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 13: and very new. We are bringing the web to functionality

578
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 13: of a tld SO a domain. If you say as

579
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 13: a passport into web three and bitcoin, meaning I take

580
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 13: my digital identity everywhere we go.

581
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: Okay, feels like we need to get you on a

582
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: little bit more to dig into my new digital identity

583
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 2: and whether or not that's having just got my eye

584
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: or not, Rienisha, I may please spend the tiety vice

585
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 2: president of Operations and Products over at Trust Machines.

586
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 3: Really fascinating across the cryptospa.

587
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: I mean, while watching shares of Intel today, let's just

588
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 2: keep an eye mo broadly on some of the chip

589
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: makers as we see really a bit of a sell

590
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: off that's.

591
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 3: Been happening across the world.

592
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: Now we're actually seeing a spike higher than the world

593
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: of Intel right now, almost managing to trade flat on

594
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 2: the day this as we see an announcement more around

595
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 2: Goudi three. They're saying they're unleashing enterprise AI with Goudi

596
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: three AI, open system strategy, New customer wins is what's

597
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: coming out. This is Intel's vision twenty twenty four and

598
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: really breaking down some of those proprietary rules they say

599
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: to bring choice to enterprise generative AI markets. Isn't it

600
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: interesting that seems to be coming on the same day

601
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 2: as Google's announcements, and also they're teaming up with Broadcom,

602
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: so we're just seeing a release of new AI hardware

603
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: to compete within video in VideA. Of course, under pressure

604
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: today this is blue made technology.

605
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: Investing in privately held companies.

606
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 2: It can be difficult for retail investors in particular, but

607
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 2: Destiny Tech one hundred is trying to change that. It's

608
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: a publicly traded closed end fund and holds shares the

609
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: private tech startups think Stripes, SpaceX, Open Ai, Discord, Epic Games,

610
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: and it trades publicly now on the New York Ticke

611
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 2: Exchange under the ticker d XYZ.

612
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 3: But it's investments are private. They're a liquid and the fund.

613
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: Plans to expand its holdings to include stocks in one

614
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: hundred startups now other the companies it has invested in

615
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: cell or go public. The returns from those investments can

616
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: be distributed shareholders as a divindard or indeed reinvested back

617
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: into the fund. As you saw, it has been incredibly volatile,

618
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 2: in fact paused several times today for trading, having risen

619
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: about eight hundred percent in the last few trading days.

620
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 2: But you want to get back to the opportunity of

621
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 2: investing in the secondary market private companies.

622
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,239
Speaker 3: Drew Glover, I'm pleased to say is with us.

623
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: He's partner at FIAT Ventures and founding partner of FIAT Growth,

624
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 2: and that is where you help advise scale, bring to

625
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: bear fintech companies in particular, you then get really close

626
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 2: to them, understand he investment chunks. Secondary market is something

627
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: you've been giving an eye on. What do you think

628
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: of it?

629
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 14: Yeah, so I've been keeping a close eye on this,

630
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 14: mainly because we work with private companies, and I think

631
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 14: what we've seen over the last call it, twenty four

632
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 14: months is this shift from a momentum market into a

633
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 14: fundamentals market and a lot of companies that were highly

634
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 14: highly valued a couple of years ago have really been

635
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 14: dormant in the private market. There's not haven't been a

636
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 14: ton of IPOs. There's been a lot of companies building, optimizing,

637
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 14: really trying to become profitable during this downtime. And what

638
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 14: that's created is a lot of really incredible opportunities in

639
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 14: the secondary market, but also, at the same time some

640
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 14: not so exciting secondary market opportunities. Okay, and that is

641
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 14: mainly because depending on kind of where the private market sits.

642
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 14: There's always massive trends, massive things that drive over valuation,

643
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 14: massive rounds, big valuations, And so you know what we're

644
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 14: seeing in this market, in the secondary market right now

645
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 14: is I think the really really educated buyers are making

646
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 14: some really smart decisions, but it's still very easy to

647
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 14: get caught up in the height of what some of

648
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 14: these trends are AI.

649
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: You know, I could talk to trying to tell me

650
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: the open AI isn't a good deal in the secondary market.

651
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 14: You know what, I actually can't tell you what the

652
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 14: number is from an open AI standpoint, but the opportunity

653
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 14: open AI has brings a number on their head that

654
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 14: they still need to grow into. And when we're talking

655
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 14: about trends in the private market, the valuations that are

656
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 14: put out there are numbers that they expect companies to

657
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 14: grow into. And so when you think about it, you're

658
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 14: betting on the futures of a company versus some of

659
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 14: these other ones that have done really well and have

660
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 14: stayed really quiet, and because they're not public, the information

661
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 14: on their success isn't as widespread, and so you really

662
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 14: need to be an insider to understand where the value

663
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 14: sits in the secondaries.

664
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: So sort of a cautionary tale to retail investors who

665
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: need to actually do a little bit more digging than

666
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: just go to the most hype name on a five

667
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 2: across headlines or indeed on social media.

668
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 5: How do you start to get that insight?

669
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 3: Where do you start peeling the onion.

670
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 14: From Yeah, and so you know, I think you know

671
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 14: there's a number of these different companies right now that

672
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,919
Speaker 14: are really kind of bringing together, you know, these consortiums

673
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 14: of different private companies. Some are on the public markets,

674
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 14: other ones are are are really just building different companies

675
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 14: to kind of roll up some of these different pieces.

676
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 14: I mean, you need to have you need to hash

677
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 14: yourself to the attach yourself to the right minds that

678
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,959
Speaker 14: are that are leading this charge. Well at the same time,

679
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 14: you know, you kind of just need to know the

680
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 14: right people. You know, for example, I know the mafia

681
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 14: of a number of different you know, really incredible companies

682
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 14: that aren't quite public quite public yet. And you know

683
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 14: that is just the nature of me being in San Francisco,

684
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 14: you know, knowing a number of different people, but you

685
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 14: really need to not only like know within your network,

686
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 14: but you also need to stay close to the people

687
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 14: that are living and breathing this every day. If you don't,

688
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 14: you will get caught up in the hype cycle. The

689
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 14: private company story in the mb kind of publication market

690
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 14: that is the greatest story ever been told, because you

691
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 14: don't have to work underneath the kind of public market

692
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 14: scrutiny of how you really talk about your business to

693
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 14: the world. So you know you can't get caught up

694
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,919
Speaker 14: in the hype because it can really hurt if you're

695
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 14: trying to lead into the secondary space.

696
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 3: Okay, so let's go for real versus hype.

697
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 5: Where has been the real work been done?

698
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 2: From a fintech perspective, this is your area of expertise.

699
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 5: Is it B t C?

700
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 3: Is it B to B where some of the.

701
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: Company's been doubling down and generating revenue and actually profits.

702
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: Stare I say it?

703
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 2: Yeah?

704
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 14: So I think I think there's some big opportunities from

705
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 14: a secondary standpoint in the direct to consumer space. I

706
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 14: think what happened in this transition from momentum to fundamentals

707
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 14: is a lot of people rode off large neobanks, a

708
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 14: lot of people wrote off a lot of the really

709
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 14: large consumer plays in fintech. And don't get me wrong,

710
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 14: some aren't doing very well. Some are doing better than

711
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 14: you could ever imagine.

712
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 2: Is there a discerning trend as to which ones are

713
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: doing better than you'd ever imagine?

714
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 14: Yeah, well, in terms of in terms of trends, again,

715
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 14: this is information that that's just like not widely available. However,

716
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 14: you know what's happened is is what was happening before.

717
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 14: What was happening before is we were really in the

718
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 14: middle of a brand war. It was a number of

719
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 14: different neo banks and consumer FinTechs that were all just

720
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 14: competing to have the biggest brand, and that meant they

721
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 14: were just spending a ton of money on Facebook and Instagram.

722
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 14: And then once the momentum market shifted into the fundamentals market,

723
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 14: you know, we pulled back on spends a little bit

724
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 14: and we started looking internal to the business. How can

725
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 14: we make it so we're not just building a company

726
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 14: just based off interchange, you know, how do we make

727
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 14: it so we can get more products in front of

728
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 14: our different users and make recommendations maybe driven by AI

729
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 14: that will help improve their financial health and their financial life,

730
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,959
Speaker 14: and really building internally to build additional products to drive

731
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 14: revenue and build existing growth growth channels within the existing

732
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 14: network to make it so we can drive more profitability,

733
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 14: drive more revenue, drive more value to the end user.

734
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 14: And so what's been happening from a private market perspective

735
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 14: is these engines that were one note have now created

736
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 14: multiple engines within their business to create long lasting value.

737
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: What's interesting is we might well get a public exit

738
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 2: from a key fintech And I'm thinking of Klana.

739
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 3: Everyone wants to see what.

740
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 2: Stripe's going to do at some time, but the buyd

741
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 2: how pay later ship is where Karana is wrapped up.

742
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 2: They're also talking a very interesting general to AI game

743
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: at the moment and the productivity they're seeing that is

744
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: that going to be an opening for other companies that

745
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 2: you're currently advising and taking states in.

746
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 5: Will there be more fintech companies going public?

747
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:28,479
Speaker 4: Yeah?

748
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 14: So I think there will be more FinTechs going public. Again,

749
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 14: we're talking about a cohort that's been around for the

750
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 14: last you know, fifteen years, you know, because old Yeah,

751
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 14: a lot of these folks were hoping to go public

752
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 14: a couple of years ago. And you know, what they've

753
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 14: really done, like I was saying, is really you know,

754
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 14: optimize the engine that they've been building. I think Klaranna

755
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 14: is a really interesting one. I mean, like hot take here,

756
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 14: Like I don't think there's going to be a lot

757
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 14: of other by now pay later businesses that they get

758
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 14: to reach the IPO space to about it. It's it's

759
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 14: it is crowded, but at the same time it's a

760
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 14: capital intensive business. From the standpoint of one, you need

761
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 14: to really market it as a brand. Although it's a

762
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 14: B two B two C product meaning I'm selling to

763
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 14: a business and I'm trying to own real estate on

764
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 14: their checkout page. When us as consumers land on that

765
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 14: checkout page and we see a firm or Klarna, we

766
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 14: need to feel confident in that brand for us to

767
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 14: go into debt with that brand. So that's one piece

768
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 14: is just like the brand side. The other one is

769
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 14: it's a it's a debt facility. And one thing we've

770
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 14: seen is the debt facility market's taken a big hit

771
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 14: in terms of these debt providers providing risk to other companies.

772
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 14: I've seen this in the you know, the the very

773
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 14: early stage market. I've seen in the high market, and

774
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 14: what we've seen with Klarna is, you know, luckily they

775
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 14: are so far along. What they really are is they're

776
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 14: an underwriting tool just like a firm. They're able to

777
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 14: offer they're able to offer micro lending options for no

778
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 14: interest at all, although they did just they just did

779
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 14: just input a late fee charge. You know, there's some

780
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 14: things that they're doing that try to optimize. We talked

781
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 14: about AI. They're also potentially laying off seven hundred different

782
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 14: folks to bring chat GPT in as their customer service

783
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 14: arm of the business, which they've run some really interesting

784
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 14: tests on that have been really successful. But to get

785
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 14: to that stage you have to raise billions of dollars.

786
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 2: Well, we'll get you back on as and when that

787
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 2: goes public and what are the new ones to keep

788
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 2: enough on? Drew Glover, partner at Fiat Venture's funding partner

789
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 2: at fat Growth.

790
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 3: We thank for his time.

791
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 15: Last year it was about a chief supply. People could

792
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 15: not get enough in video chefs. Particularly this year is

793
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 15: starting to transition to a voltage transformer supply. If you

794
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 15: look out a year or two or certainly three years,

795
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 15: it's just electricity availability. So those constraints in the hardware.

796
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 2: Side, you know, musk they're talking about chip supply shortage

797
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: and the AI space in particular. Of course Tesla and

798
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 2: AI Player, but so too is now Grok, which is developing.

799
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: He was speaking on X yesterday with Nikolai Tangan is

800
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: the CEO of Norgebag Investment Management. It manages about one

801
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 2: point six trillion dollars in fact, in fact as the

802
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 2: largest single owner of the world stock markets. Musk actually

803
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: began the live discussion by talking.

804
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 5: Up how well the service worked.

805
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: Pretty soon the audio cut out on X and it

806
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: happened again and again and going to we'll have to

807
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 2: dig into it with Blueberg's BusinessWeek.

808
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 3: Columist Max Chafkin.

809
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 2: I mean, aside from technical glitches, Max, what was the

810
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: key takeaway you think from that conversation.

811
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 16: I mean, you know, Elon Musk has been in this

812
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 16: conversation a couple other forums over the last week, been

813
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 16: painting a very sunny picture of AI, particularly around Tesla,

814
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 16: and as we heard here Grok.

815
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 5: You know, he also, in addition to.

816
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 16: Saying like we're getting past these chips shortages as you

817
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 16: just heard, he said that they are using a huge

818
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,479
Speaker 16: number of Nvidia chips on the next version of GROC,

819
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 16: which he also talked up. I believe he said twenty thousand,

820
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 16: h one hundred chips, which you know, that's an insane

821
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 16: amount of money. That's you know, each one of those

822
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 16: chips is between like ten and fifteen thousand dollars, So

823
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 16: it's a it's a huge sum of money. And I

824
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 16: think the real question is how does grock XAI, which

825
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 16: is Elon Musk's AI venture, how does it? How does

826
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 16: he finance it? Does he raise outside capital? Does he

827
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 16: somehow does it somehow get closer to Tesla or closer

828
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,479
Speaker 16: to Twitter now now called X. I think that's one

829
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 16: big question because these large language models, as people know,

830
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 16: are not inexpensive to train, and they are and they

831
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 16: are not inexpensive to run.

832
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 3: Elon's in damage control right now.

833
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 16: Yeah, so we heard last week some really discouraging sales

834
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 16: figures which Musk had kind of previewed, and then you

835
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 16: had a report from Reuters saying that the model too,

836
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 16: that's the inexpensive electric vehicle, was killed by Elon Musk.

837
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 16: Elon Musk has disputed that, but he's sort of been

838
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 16: edging towards a chain an emphasis in ESSENTI saying no,

839
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 16: we're prioritizing the Robotaxi, which is this almost mythical product

840
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 16: that he has been talking about for almost a decade

841
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 16: and yet, on the other hand, does hold a lot

842
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 16: of promise. You know, the people who are really bullish

843
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 16: on Tesla see this as the key to justifying the valuation,

844
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 16: so you can kind of understand the strategy shift.

845
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 3: Max Chafkin, we thank him.

846
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 2: This is blem back technology.