1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: I never told you a protection of I heart radios. 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: How stuff word? You know what time it is? It's 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: that time? What time? It's time for another female first Yes, 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: which means we are joined once again by our good 6 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: friend and colleague ease. Welcome, hello there, and we don't 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: get to see often because she's so busy, aren't we all? 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: It's true, it is true, and I have some terrible news. 9 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: I did not bring the cheesecake or champagne. Il car, 10 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: you know what it's okay, Honestly, I've been eating a 11 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: lot of ice cream lately, and I think piling on 12 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: cheesecake on top of that, it's like it's risky. It's risky, risky, proper, 13 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: really ruining the weekend? Now, no heart feelings? Okay, Okay, 14 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: the next time, Yes, let's add to the list. So 15 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: in this cheesecake and champagne, and then what else should 16 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: we add every time we add? Yeah, until we actually 17 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: finally do it. Yeah, I think we need like balloons 18 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: or confetti. Let's see what. I actually really love some 19 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: Mason jars. So if you have any white mouth like okaya, oh, 20 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: I can help you can do. Yeah, yeah, we're getting 21 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: really practical here, but say, by the end of this 22 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna have like a table of full plight setting. 23 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: It sounds like we're going all in gift giving one 24 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: on one holiday seasons coming up. So it's true, and 25 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: we could be our own version of the Finer Things 26 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: Club from Yeah. People will be like, what are they 27 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: up to? Or the Wine and Cheese Club from Box 28 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: and Reck. Yes, we can rewind. No, yeah I don't. 29 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: I'm out on the references. I'm sorry. I feel like 30 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: this happens every time there's one person who just like, right, 31 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: there's one Yeah, we got the SpongeBob, we got it, 32 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: You've got that. I've never seen the Office our parks 33 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: and so really yeah, well it's just a fancy club basically. 34 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: And I would don't watch The Office because it's not dated. 35 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: Well oh really, yeah, it's hard for um um Tracy, 36 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: who is a manager. She always said it was so 37 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: hard for her to watch because it's terrible management. Really 38 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: that was exactly Yeah, an incompetent dude trying to run 39 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: an office. Yep, yep. But the Finer Things Club was lovely, 40 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: and we can have our own version I think we'll 41 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: have to have a table cough, but we'll we'll workshop 42 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: that outside of this this podcast episode. Um, who did 43 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: you bring for us today? Eves? Today is whoda are we? So? 44 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: She is a really really important figure in feminist and 45 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: Egyptian history. Um the first. The first is that she 46 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: was the first president of the Arab Feminist Union, and 47 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: she has some other first thrown in there as well. 48 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: But uh, you did a lot of stuff and was 49 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: like she had her hands in a lot of pots 50 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: when it came to feminism. And yeah, so we're going 51 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 1: to talk about her today. There's this idea that Westerners 52 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: have often assumed that women in the Middle East and 53 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: in North Africa are oppressed by Islam and men, and 54 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: that they have no rights and no autonomy, and that 55 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: there is this whole rhetoric that women needed to be 56 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: liberated from that kind of practice that continues today. You know, 57 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: there are a lot of conversations around veils and around um, 58 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: you know, coverings, but there that view that women are 59 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: like universally oppressed and passive about the practices that they 60 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: were subjected to and that they haven't advocated or organized 61 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: for themselves is just not accurate. It's rooted in stereotyping, 62 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: it's rooted in imperialism, is rooted in saviorism and misconceptions 63 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: and like all of those things. And obviously she she 64 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: was born in eighteen seventy nine, so things are a 65 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: lot were a lot different than than they are today. 66 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: Things are not we're not Western. You know, there's the 67 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: issue of time, there's the issue of place. But um, yeah, 68 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: like she just did so much. I'm really excited to 69 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: talk about her today. She did at um and I 70 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: think this is one um we and we've talked about 71 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: this before and kind of our anxiety around first, but 72 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: this is one where the context and time period is 73 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: so important. Yes, um yeah, And I do always love 74 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: to do that disclaimer of like there's a reason that 75 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: a person it was the first. They're situated in a 76 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: certain time and place, and that means that there are 77 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: probably people left out of the conversation and people who 78 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: contributed it that aren't that aren't mentioned. But also like 79 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: had a huge role in what there first was, and 80 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: that first are always an issue of access, and like 81 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: in Hudasha always instance, she was wealthy, um and a 82 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: lot of the struggle or a lot of the work 83 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: that she was doing also happened with it middle class 84 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: and upper class circles, but there were also lower class 85 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: women who were participating in their own you know, in 86 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: their own ways. Right. It's also as always an issue 87 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: of like what gets recorded and what doesn't exactly, Yes, 88 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: that's a big one, it is. But all that disclaimer aside, 89 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: we do have a lot to talk about. So why 90 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: don't we get started. Let's do it. So, as I said, 91 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: she was born in eighteen seventy nine and her family's 92 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: estate in Egypt, and her father was Sultan of Pasha 93 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: and he was a wealthy landowner, and he was a 94 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: government official as well, and so she was raised in Cairo. 95 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: And it was common for upper class Egyptian men to 96 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: have a wife, to have secondary wives, to have concubines, 97 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: and that was the household that she was born into. 98 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: So she lived with her mother Ikeball Hannum, and her 99 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: father's wife Hassiba, and her brother and her father's other 100 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: children and servants and enslaved people. And so there is 101 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: Igva Hanum. Her mother was a Circassian refugee, and the 102 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: Circassians are in Northwest Caucasian ethnic group, but some historians 103 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: have said that she was a concubine of her father, 104 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: but Huda said in her personal memoirs that her mother 105 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: and her father were married, so there's a little bit 106 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: of discarpancy over that. Um. So yeah, her father died 107 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: when she was really young. He died of kidney disease 108 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: when she was five years old, And as was typical 109 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: for elite girls at the time, she grew up studying 110 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: with tutors at home um, and she was taught Arabic, Persian, 111 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: Turkish and French. And she studied music, the Koran, calligraphy, 112 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: poetry and the piano and all the things. Who yeah, um, yeah, 113 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: it's that's intense. Um. But before she was tenned she 114 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: had memorized parts of the Koran, and her memoirs she 115 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: says that she really loved poetry, and that love increased 116 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: because she got visits from the Tenerant poet Sayeda Kadija 117 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: al Magribia. She visited their house often, and she wrote 118 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: that Sayeda Kadija impressed me because she used to sit 119 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: with the men and discussed literary and cultural matters. Meanwhile, 120 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: I observed how women without learning would tremble with embarrassment 121 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 1: and fright if called upon to speak a few words 122 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: to a man from behind a screen observing, sayeda. Kadija 123 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: convinced me that with learning, women could be equals of men, 124 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: if not surpassed them. My admiration for her continued to grow, 125 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: and I yearned to be like her in spite of 126 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: her ugly face. And that's a that's like a turnup 127 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: in a good day day that was unexpected. It was 128 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: so unexcited because I saw this quote in places and 129 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: they always left that part off of the Animal memoir 130 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: and I saw that and I was like, whoa, whoa, 131 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: that was strong. It is what it is, it is. Um. 132 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: We have a lot more to discuss with you listeners, 133 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break rich from our sponsor, 134 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. And that's I mean, 135 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: that's something we've talked about a lot on the show, 136 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: is the importance of like seeing yourself and especially at 137 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: a young age, and thinking, oh, well, then that is 138 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: an avenue available for me. And that's something also that's 139 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: come up in a lot of these females. First, I'm 140 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: always kind of surprised at their circle. If you will, 141 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: like the cameo famous historical Wow, because it does seem 142 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: to be a pretty big impact or influencer on a 143 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: lot of the women we've talked about. Is these people 144 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: kind of come into their lives and they witnessed like wow, 145 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: look at that. Yeah, I think that's really cool too 146 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: because a lot of the time, um, like you know, 147 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: that's also a question of access, like who could be around. 148 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that you know that there aren't people 149 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: who are super influential and super intelligent and super talented 150 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: that are of you know, the lower class, but you 151 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: know it, it's it's really good to have somebody to 152 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: look to that right, you know, I can say this 153 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: is possible for me having that connection and also open 154 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: doors for you people to hear of you. That's why 155 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: people who may not be in that same circle, because 156 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: those famous people will be the ones that influence. Oh 157 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: so so is coming up and you should get to 158 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: know them and they've done these things, which is awesome 159 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: if you can have it. Networking is beautiful. Specific can 160 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: work out. It can't be you guys have had some 161 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: negative experiences. I'm not great at network, but you're better 162 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: than you think. Yeah, I'll take that anyway, came back. 163 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 1: She has an amazing influence who was not so pretty fantastic. 164 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: She's well, we don't know that for sure that's her, 165 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: We're not. But it is interesting that she had to 166 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: say that, as if it was something that could hold 167 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: it held her back, right, Yeah, like there was a 168 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: there was a chance that I wasn't going to make 169 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: this happen because she's ugly. Yeah, but beyond that, keep going. 170 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: Her younger brother Umar Sultan got more attention than her, 171 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: and she often voiced her frustrations about that, about him 172 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: being favored because he was a boy, and she often 173 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: voiced her frustrations to Hassiba, her father's widow at this 174 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: point um And she called Hassiba wom cabra, which means 175 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: big mother in Arabic. And though she spent time around 176 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: boys when she was young, like her brother, her neighbor, 177 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: and the sons of family friends, she was restricted to 178 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: the company of women and girls around the age of eleven, 179 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: so women and men were separated, with girls and women 180 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: restricted to a part of the house called the harem, 181 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: and so she had to talk from two men from 182 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: behind the screen to women in seclusion were guarded by 183 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: eunuchs who were usually cash aided enslaved men from Sudan, 184 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: and as Marianne Faye puts it in the book Unveiling, 185 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: the harem, veiling in seclusion go hand in hand as 186 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: outside the home, as veiling mate women unapproachable by men 187 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: and effectively constructed a harem around them outside the home. 188 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: So she was already becoming frustrated with tender rolls when 189 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 1: she was thirteen years old and her family arranged her 190 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: marriage to her cousin and legal guardian Ali sha are We, 191 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: who was in his late forties. She didn't want to 192 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: marry him, so her mother put in the marriage contracts 193 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: that he had to dump his concubine who he was 194 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: with at the time and had children with, and live 195 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: with just sh are We. So he broke the contract, 196 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: and when his concubine got pregnant with his child and 197 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: she she was like, I'm deathing and lived away from 198 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: and for like seven years until he was twenty one 199 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: years old, until she was twenty one years old. Excuse me. 200 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: So during that time she became close to a woman 201 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: named Eugenie Lebron, and Lebron was a frenchwoman who was 202 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: married to an Egyptian man who had written books on 203 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: Egyptian social customs, so are We. You know, she's starting 204 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: to meet all these people like we talked about earlier, 205 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: who influenced her. So ch are We went to salons 206 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: that Lebron hosted at her home in the eighteen nineties, 207 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: and those discussions often turned to current events, to education, 208 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: to social practices, and Lebron exposed to are We to 209 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: even more ideas of Western feminism, and Lebron suggested that 210 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: the veil was a thing that was hindering Egyptian women's advancement. 211 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: So in nineteen hundred, you know, years go by and 212 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: nineteen hundred, share We returned to life with her husband 213 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: and they had two children around that time, like within 214 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 1: the next five years, they had a couple of children. 215 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: And then she met a French woman named Marguerite Clement 216 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: who was a lecturer and was touring the Middle East 217 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: on a Carnegie endowment, and Clemant detailed her public speaking 218 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: events to show are we and so are we decided 219 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: to take up that task on her own and do 220 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: her own public lectures for Egyptian women, and she began 221 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: doing these public lectures in Cairo, regularly after she did 222 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: her first one, and they were pretty much a hit, 223 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: like they were, you know, women coming out to do 224 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: this in public. In nineteen no way, she helped found 225 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: the first secular philanthropic organization operated by Egyptian women, medical 226 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: Dispensary for under privileged women and children, and it was 227 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: established through private donations, through fundraising and other incomes. So 228 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: she advocated for women less services and you know, social 229 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: projects because they allowed women to get more practical knowledge 230 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: and challenged notions of women as these subservient people, as 231 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: who were just objects of pleasure. And this education is 232 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: a huge thing in her story. UM women women learning 233 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: through experience and women having access to the same education 234 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: that boys and men had access to. UM. That comes 235 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: up a lot in her story. That's something that she 236 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: was really passionate about, and we'll talk a little bit 237 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: more about that later. So she thought that rich folks 238 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: should give back through donations and other charity, but she 239 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: did kind of have in a way a limited dualistic 240 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: view of the rich as protectors and the poor as 241 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: people who received services and kind of had no say 242 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: in the matter. She created the Intellectual Association of Egyptian 243 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: Women in nineteen fourteen, which worked to improve women's intellectual 244 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: and their social lives. So at this point, gender separation 245 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: was still typical for women of the middle and upper classes, 246 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: but they were starting to abandon those seclusion practices and 247 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: taking teaching jobs, participating in the press, and participating in 248 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: charities and literary societies. So should are we criticized the 249 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: restrictions that were put on elite women by seclusion and veiling, 250 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: and it was dissatisfied with concubinage and polygamy, and you know, 251 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: supported the restriction of polygamy. And so the Egyptian Revolution 252 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: of nineteen nineteen is a part of her story. It 253 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: was a revolution that was against Britain's occupation of Egypt 254 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: and Sudan. And obviously this happened a lot with Britain 255 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: has an imperialist power, revolutions against them as the colonial 256 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: authorities in Egypt is no exception. So Assultanate of Egypt 257 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: was declared a British protectorate in nineteen fourteen, but Egyptians 258 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: soon began calling for Egyptian complete autonomy. So just after 259 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: the November eleventh, nineteen eighteen Armistice, a delegation that was 260 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: called a WAFT of Egyptian nationalists made a request to 261 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: the High Commissioner Reginald Wingate to end the British protectorate 262 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: in Egypt in Sudan and get Egyptian representation at the 263 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: next peace conference in Paris, but the British government refused 264 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: to accept that delegation and the WAFF it soon turned 265 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: into a nationalist organization and then later into a political party, 266 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: a nationalist political party, and so at the same time 267 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: there was also a movement, like a ground swell movement 268 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: for Egyptian and Sudanese independence, and women's role, of course 269 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: was huge and integral in that struggle. Don't let anybody 270 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: ever tell you otherwise. Always there. Um Shari and her 271 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: husband became leaders in the Egyptian independence movement, and in 272 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen she organized a protest and called on other 273 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: women to take to the streets and protests of British role. 274 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: A lot of that happening with her and her husband 275 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: was a member of the nationalists WAFFE party and in 276 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty she became the president of the WAFT Women's 277 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: Central Committee and she led women's demonstrations. She set up 278 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: petitions and protests against colonial authority. She raised funds, and 279 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: she maintained communications when WAFFE members were locked up or exiled, 280 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: and obviously she mobilized women across Egypt to join the 281 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: movement too, And so in nineteen two she had a 282 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: women's meeting at her house where they decided to boycott 283 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: British goods and take their money out of British banks, 284 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: organizing more organizing for the cause. And so Egypt became 285 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: a constitutional monarchy in nineteen and under that designation, it 286 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: was still under British control. So the last troops weren't 287 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: withdrawn until nineteen fifty seven, so much later. But you know, 288 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: a lot happened between those two times, but there was 289 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: still a lot that had to be done in terms 290 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: of like their autonomy and so mal At this point 291 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: the Waffett Party was like more active, and then they 292 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: had more Egyptians, had more of a role in politics 293 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: and legislation and all that stuff. And so male nationalists 294 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: had argued for education for women so women could become 295 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: better homemakers and mothers, especially to sons who were going 296 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: to grow up We've seen this happen before, who were 297 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: going to grow up in participating in the economy and 298 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: participate in government. But they were largely dismissive of the 299 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: idea of women in the workforce. And as we'll see later, 300 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: she argues like intellectualism and education is important in creating 301 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: good mothers and you know people who are too able 302 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: to participate in society essentially, and so women's role in 303 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: the home became integral to the nationalist mission of building 304 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: the state and its power. But under Egypt's new constitution, 305 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: women weren't granted the right to vote, and so they 306 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: felt but by that where it was something that they 307 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: were promised and something that they had worked so hard 308 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: for themselves UM because the Waffett had agreed to grant 309 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: them women's suffrage UM social Aari and other women were 310 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: really frustrated with the party for its lack of commitment 311 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: to feminism and how it treated women's rights as less 312 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: important than the independence movement, and so she and other 313 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: women left the Central Committee, the Women's Central Committee in 314 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: in nineteen three. This is a big part of her story. 315 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: She founded the Egyptian Feminist Union UM and that was 316 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: made up of middle and upper class women and so 317 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: it advocated for women's suffrage, for women's education, change and 318 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: personal status laws. It also continued to fight for full 319 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: Egyptian independence and advocated for equal political rights for women, 320 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: more employment opportunities, and like other stuff, A lot of stuff, 321 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: a lot of things. Yeah, and then established clinics, schools, scholarships, 322 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: and literacy programs. And we'll talk more about what it did. 323 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: But like in the end, it didn't accomplish all of 324 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: its goals. Um. But there were some games that were 325 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: made during Huda Shaw's lifetime. It paved the way for 326 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: later feminists, and so feminist efforts that were once intertwined 327 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: with the independence clause from Britain became more focused on 328 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: changing egypsius in societal norms regarding women. She are we 329 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: said that if women's status continued to be defined by 330 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: their familiar roles and their rights remained limited, then that 331 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: would limit the progress of society, including men's. That would 332 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: limit the future of civilization. Um. And so this is 333 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: where we get into like her philosophy is developing a 334 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: little bit more. And she emphasized the importance of women 335 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: and girls education as a way for them to be 336 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: critically and intellectually engaged in society as a path toward 337 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: more autonomy and social improvement and being just all in 338 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: all better moral beings. She advocated for public schools for everyone, 339 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: and that women have access to all educational facilities in Egypt, 340 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: and that women were able to pursue the same professions 341 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: as men, and that women should be represented in parliament. 342 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: And there were a lot of conservative people who obviously 343 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: did not were not on board with all of these ideas. 344 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: This fight for women's rights in Egypt was alone and protracted, 345 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: and the thing that happened over a period of many years. 346 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: So she was still, you know, brought up the moral 347 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: beings thing. Her feminism was still anchored within Islam. So 348 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: she subscribed to the idea of ishto hide or independent 349 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: inquiry and interpreting the Koran as opposed to accepting uncritical 350 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: legal prescriptions of Islam. And this goes back to a 351 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: theory that was uh proposed or developed by men in 352 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: the past that she kind of walked her way into 353 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: that discourse, and so she developed her ideas based on 354 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: that theory, and she claimed that society was denying women 355 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: their Islamic rights since Islam didn't deny women access to education, 356 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: and it was in fact, quote misogyny masquerading as Islam, 357 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: as doctor Rula Quaas, and I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, 358 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: But as doctor Rula Quaas put it once, and that 359 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: that actually relegated with Muslim women to inferior status. She 360 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: recognized that Islam actually valued gender equality and hard work 361 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: and afforded women rights that they weren't granted and practiced 362 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: in society at the time, and so are we in 363 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: a couple of other Egyptian women went to the ninth 364 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: Congress of the International Women's Suffrage Alliance in Rome in 365 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: May of nine, and so in her speech there she 366 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: argued that Islam granted women equal rights to men and 367 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: that the Kuran had been misinterpreted. And when she got 368 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: back to Egypt, that's when one of the bolic moves 369 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: of her life happened, and she removed her veil in 370 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: public at a Cairo train station, which signaled her embrace 371 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: of her role as a public leader in the women's 372 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: movement in Egypt. Yeah, and so though it's a like 373 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: a symbolic move that's really highlighted in her story and 374 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: has a lot of weight in telling of her story, 375 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: she advocated for a gradual approach to removing the veil. 376 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: And yeah, she didn't spend a ton of time on 377 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: the issue, she obviously did a lot though she definitely 378 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: did Um. She advocated for women working to gain financial 379 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: independence and for a minimum age for marriage, so this 380 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: is where the familial, the family law comes in. And 381 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: she also worked to limit easy access that man had 382 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: to divorce, and to restrict the practice of polygamy, as 383 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: we said earlier, and to abolish the forcible restitution of 384 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: a wife to her husband, and for divorced women to 385 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: keep their children for a longer period because it was 386 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: limited at the time. So there was a little progress 387 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: in those family laws. In nineteen three, Egypt's parliament raised 388 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: the minimum age of marriage for girls to sixteen, and 389 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: there was a little progress on divorce laws, but it 390 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: was still harder for a woman to get a divorce 391 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: than a man to get a divorce. And in nineteen 392 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: nine they did extend the period of a mother's custody 393 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: over her children, so a little progress happening um. And 394 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: so also in education, primary education specifically for for everybody 395 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: was made compulsory, so for girls and boys. And she 396 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: also helped start the Club of the Women's Union, which 397 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: raised funds to support the clinic and dispensary, craft workshops, 398 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: child care facilities, and journals on women's issues. What was 399 00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: the When was the law place for the sixteen year old? 400 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: That was nineteen twenty five? No, that was I believe 401 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: ye say, was that before even the US. Yeah, that's 402 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: the thing about a lot of this did happen before us, 403 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: so much more progressive because even still there was still 404 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: a liphole until like the two thousand's. Yeah, for underage 405 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: kids to be married, child brides are child married to me, 406 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: that's damn yeah, go ahead, Yeah, that's I guess a lot. 407 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people like, don't put it, 408 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: put that in context. That's the hard thing about because 409 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: because the myth is so pervasive that like the east 410 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: is more backwards than the west end, and they see 411 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: veils and they're like, this is not our idea of 412 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: feminism and of progress and of right, even though ours 413 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: is still us specifically rooted in religion as well. It's 414 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: so easy to be so hypocritical. And also just like 415 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: we're not educated, Uh, we're often not educated about realities, 416 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: and we have no other basis but the myth. So 417 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 1: it's like Yeah, anyway, that's a whole like other conversation. 418 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: Good to note though, that that is something that was 419 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: so much more progressive before the U S, which we 420 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: see as the standard of progression. You're like, no, no, 421 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: look at what's been happening. She also advocated for a 422 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 1: Palestinian women who lost their homes during the establishment of Israel, 423 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: and she was influenced by the nationalist movement in Palestine 424 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: and began to define nationalism and pan Arab rather than 425 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: Egyptian terms, and was framing feminism within those terms and 426 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: became a little bit more doubtful of Western feminists. She 427 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: was also a leader in the International Alliance for Women's 428 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: Suffrage and advocated for women's political rights and suffrage, even 429 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: though women in Egypt didn't gain the vote until nineteen 430 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: fifty six UM, which is after her death, and so 431 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: as more and more women joined the workforce, the Prince 432 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: of Egypt announced his opposition to women working outside the home, 433 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: and a journal that she established, Legion. She responded and 434 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: she said, this Muslim law clearly acknowledges and advocates the 435 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: equality of the sexes and does not ascribe one domain 436 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,959 Speaker 1: of work to one more than the other. And then 437 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: she went on to say, it is as if your 438 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: highness has forgotten that our religion had given the woman 439 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: the free range and right to dispose of her goods 440 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: in any way she sees fit. She is able to 441 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: sell and secure a mortgage, and to bequeath and to testify. 442 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: And then she went on to say, the great law 443 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: giver has high reverence for the woman, but man refuses 444 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: to admit that and grant her respect, owing to his 445 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: self cinered nous, he wishes to constrain woman and deny 446 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: her any field of action. So the same idea that 447 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: this is not the is not accurate. Right, this is 448 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: not based in any reality of Islam. It's what right? 449 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: He was saying. They're like challenging the interpretation of the 450 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: people in power. Oh yeah, that was solid burn. No, no, no, yeah, 451 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: I was agreeing with you. That's what that look was 452 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: like a little bit of shock. What agreement to work 453 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: on my expression? Don't we mine aren't good? We have 454 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: a little bit more for you listeners, but first we 455 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: have one more quick break for work from our sponsor. 456 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you sponsor. Let's get back into it. 457 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: So she was essentially informing the Arab Feminist Union in 458 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: n which promoted gender equality and Arab nationalism, and she 459 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: played a key role in founding it and organizing within it, 460 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: and she became the first president of that organization. And 461 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: so yeah, she continued her work basically until she died, 462 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: and she died in nineteen forty seven. Two years before 463 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: that she was recognized and when she was given the 464 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: highest decoration in Egypt called the Nichean al Kamal Award, 465 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: that happened in nineteen and yes, so she she died 466 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty seven in Cairo. After that, the name 467 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: of the e FU was changed to the share We 468 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: Society for the Feminist Renaissance. And even though a lot 469 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: of the things the e F you worked for weren't 470 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: completely gained in her lifetime, there was obviously a lot 471 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: of progress afterward, a lot of people who were inspired 472 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: by the work that she did, and a lot of changes, 473 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, and in terms of the things that her 474 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: philosophy and you know, the things that she advocated for 475 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: h as feminism changes over time as well, you know, 476 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: I know, um, not everything that she fought for or 477 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: the way that she fought is everybody even within the 478 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: Arab community or for Muslims or for feminists is going 479 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: to be the same. But she really laid the groundwork 480 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: for a lot of political activism that was to happen 481 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: in the coming years and to this day. And she 482 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: supported women and women's movements in other countries besides Europe Dan. 483 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: She also shifted mindsets and behaviors and culture at the 484 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: time for women and for others, and shifted power relations 485 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: between men and women. And so you know, as we 486 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: spoke of, she extended a lot of educational and professional 487 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: like what jobs were available to women at the time. 488 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: She extended that a lot during her lifetime. And yeah, 489 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: that's that's her story and her legacy. That's a pretty 490 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: good one. Doesn't intense large legacy, it's a long, long, 491 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: long list of even its Yeah, I think it's a 492 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: great example of, um One, how feminism does touch on 493 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: so much more than people realize. Sometimes I think like 494 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: it involves everything, um and just all the issues she 495 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: was working on. To me, I feel like that could 496 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: be an entire lifetime just doing that because she was 497 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: working on so many um and even still kind of 498 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: translate to today even when we talk about women in 499 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: job bills talking about equal pay and equal opportunity still 500 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: like a necessary need everywhere, And she was at the 501 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: beginning in voicing that in what we would have again 502 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: as we established, Oh, this is so backwards compared to 503 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: but it's not. They've been trying to do that. They've 504 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: been trying to fix this. Yeah, and even the idea 505 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: of the fact that a lot of the things that 506 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: we even aspired to our Western ideals of what we 507 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: think needs to be achieved, like a Western ideal of 508 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: democracy r. This is the only way things can happen 509 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: for progress to be achieved in that necessarily the case. Yeah, Um, 510 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: I love that you bring people from all over because 511 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: I think in our our little US bubble, um, it's 512 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: easy to forget that there's so much out there, right, 513 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: so much how young who we are as a country, 514 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: And yeah, absolutely, I forget that all the time. And 515 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: then wait, wait a minute, like in ninety b c. Yeah, 516 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: what we don't have that? What is that I don't 517 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: even understand that I don't know, um, yeah, yeah, And 518 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: I do think it's worth reminding ourselves because it can 519 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: be very exhausting and tiring to fight these fights all 520 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: the time, and it just it does take It does 521 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: take take time while we're still doing it. Yeah, that's 522 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: the thing is. And we recently talked about the perception 523 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: of good news versus bad news, and good news can 524 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: take so much longer that we don't see it sometimes time. 525 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: So it's great that we're recognizing these these women who 526 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: have made changes. Yeah, I think it's also very interesting 527 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: to see their journey of enlightenment and like, what is 528 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: the thing that made them fight as hard as they did, 529 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: and was the thing that inspire are the people who 530 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: inspire them to participate in politics, are in activism or 531 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: in organizing. I think that's always a fascinating thing to 532 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: see because every like all these women come at it 533 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: in such different ways and come at it from such 534 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: different viewpoints. Like, as we know, she was wealthy, and 535 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: it just really highlights how vast and how much of 536 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: a spectrum it is when it comes to the things 537 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: that people face and the similarities in the differences and 538 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: people struggles. Yeah, I love that One of her big 539 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: points was that she saw that her younger brother was 540 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: getting more respected dinner. I love that this isn't right 541 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 1: saying like like she loved him, but yeah, she had 542 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: a few look's like it's not your fault, guy's not 543 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: your fault, but it's still not fair. I love it. 544 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: I love it so much. Well, this was wonderful as always, Eaves, 545 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: thanks for joining us, Thank you for having me. Where 546 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: can the listeners find you? So you can listen to 547 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: me on any of the various podcast listening platforms on 548 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: the shows This Day in History Class or the show 549 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: I'm Popular. You can look us up on the Facebook, 550 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: the Instagram, the Twitter, all of the things at You 551 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: can just find us on Unpopular if you look at 552 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: the Unpopular podcast, or to say, in History Class and 553 00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: that's it, I like a good and with a dramatic 554 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 1: at least dot dot dot nothing that's awesome. Well yeah, 555 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: certainly go check that out for for more stories like this, 556 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: listeners um and also, if you have any suggestions for 557 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: some good female first you can send them to us. 558 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: Our email is Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media 559 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Instagram at stuff 560 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: and I've Never Told You, or on Twitter at mom 561 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: Stuff Podcast. Thanks to our guest Eves, thanks to our 562 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening 563 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never told you his protection of i Heeart 564 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: Radios How stuff Works. For more podcast from i Heeart 565 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: Radio is to be a heart radio app, Apple podcast, 566 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.