1 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature, feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 3 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: and Tipday on the show plants. Plants are often faced 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: with a variety of ferocious predators, which is, you know, 5 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: us animals, we love eating plants, but plants don't always 6 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: love being eaten. Now, sometimes they do, but sometimes they don't. 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: And being a plant can be hard because you got 8 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: no mouth, you got no eyes. How are you going 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 1: to protect yourself without the handy ability to punch someone. Well, 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the creative ways in which 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: plants defend themselves, which can be surprisingly clever. Joining me 12 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: today is host of the Planthropology podcast, Professor of horticulture, 13 00:00:58,280 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: doctor Vicram Buligo. 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: Welcome. 15 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to have you me too. 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 2: I was so happy you reached out and I am 17 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: thrilled to talk to you today. 18 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: I am excited to talk about plants being devious because 19 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: I think that people have this concept that plants just 20 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: kind of sit there and then they casually take all 21 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: the abuse that you know, US animals dole out on them. 22 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: But no, no, they are out there protecting themselves, making plans, 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: well maybe not making plans, but you know they are 24 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: they have defenses. They are not damsels in distress. 25 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 2: That's right, for sure. Yeah, and it's it's funny because 26 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: they do all these things, and I'm sure they find 27 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: us very confusing, you know, weird hairless apes like this 28 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: is here to kill anything that eats me, and we're like, ooh, spicy. 29 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. So first I want to talk about the 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: wonderful world of plant toxins, which are something that you know. Obviously, 31 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: there are plenty of plants that are toxic to humans, 32 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: whether we eat them or get them on our bodies. 33 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: It can be painful or even deadly. But there are 34 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: some plant toxins that make human life better. It enhances 35 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: our culinary cultures, and so yeah, a lot of plants 36 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: produce toxins, and of course toxins can help defend them 37 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: from herbivores, including insect, larvae and mammals. It's also a 38 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: defense against pathogens. But I want to talk about some 39 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: of the tastiest toxins in plants. So I'm not saying 40 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: that you should pick the nearest, devious looking flour and 41 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: put it in your mouth. That can be bad, but 42 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: some plant toxins are actually pretty delicious, kind of tasty. 43 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's funny because it's funny you bring that 44 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 2: up because recently I posted something on Instagram and TikTok 45 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: about how we shouldn't eat, you know, incredible toxic plants. 46 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 2: Apparently that's controversial if you can imagine, because apparently people 47 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: like eating their plant toxin sometimes, so you know, we 48 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 2: should definitely be careful. I think a lot about the 49 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 2: first guy who decided to eat a given plant and 50 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: all his buddies standing around taking notes. Yeah, right, you're up, 51 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: Carl Ford, eat the weird berry. 52 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: See if he vomits, and if not, we can eat 53 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: those berries. Yeah, that was being a chef meant something 54 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: very different back in the day. Well, what's what's an 55 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: example of a toxic plant that people try to eat 56 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: that they shouldn't. 57 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 2: I think my favorite is the coffee tree. I am, 58 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: you know at this point about seventy three percent caffeine. 59 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: A friend, a friend of mine likes to say that 60 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: I died years ago and it's just the caffeine keeping 61 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: me animated like a zombie. But so, yeah, caffeine is 62 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: an insecticide. It was developed by the plant to try 63 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 2: to keep herbivores off of it, you know, so the 64 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: leaves to the berries and everything else. It's a strategy 65 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: to make sure that the seeds survive undigested long enough 66 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 2: to go germinate somewhere else. It just turns out it 67 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: makes us go fast. Yes, and it's probably the most 68 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: popular plant toxin in the world, which is a weird 69 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: way to look at it, but it's also true. 70 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: Yes, I mean I live in Italy and it's definitely 71 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: a big hit here. Gosh, they love their coffee caffeine. 72 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: I actually I can have a little bit of caffeine 73 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: usually I have a little bit of tea, but espresso 74 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: is something that does terrible things to me. I cannot 75 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,119 Speaker 1: handle it. I turn into a jittery mess. My heart 76 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: feels like it's having some kind of break dancing competition 77 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: in my chest. It's not a good situation. But yeah, 78 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: for a lot of people, caffeine is a lot of 79 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: a high dose of caffeine is what they need to 80 00:04:59,240 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: get through the day. 81 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I don't know if that was grad school 82 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: that did that to me that I became you know, 83 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 2: so it's kind of it's probably not good, and people 84 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 2: do have, like you mentioned, different tolerances to it. Like 85 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: I can drink a coffee and go straight to bed, 86 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 2: which is probably not good in the grand scheme of things. 87 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: I should probably worry about that. But I can't drink 88 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 2: like energy drinks. I don't know if it's the sugar 89 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 2: in them or what, but those definitely make me jittery. 90 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 2: But like just coffee, it just sort of levels me 91 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 2: off at this point. 92 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because some people can't handle tea as well. 93 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: For me, like tea is fine and coffee doesn't work 94 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: for me. For other people, like tea is actually the 95 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: things that make them dittery, whereas coffee doesn't. I think 96 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: everyone's metabolism is different. But in general, humans tolerate caffeine 97 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: fairly well. It doesn't kill us. I mean, I'm sure 98 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: there's a level at which it could kill us, but 99 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: that would be like and it's a lot, that'd be 100 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: a lot, yes, But yeah, in humans, it impacts our 101 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: nervous system. It raises our heart rate, and it can 102 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, kind of it acts as a stimulant, a 103 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: mild stimulant. It is a drug. It in that way 104 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: like it is something that physiologically impacts our body's nervous system, 105 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: but it's relatively safe. And so you have some caffeine, 106 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: your heart rate increases, your breathing increases, and for a 107 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: lot of people that helps them think, maybe that helps 108 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: them feel less sleepy. It's stimulating. For some people it 109 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: just makes you gitterate and you can't focus at all. 110 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: But you know, depending on who you are, it impacts 111 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: you potentially in a positive way. But what is a 112 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: moderate effect in humans is devastating to insects that want 113 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: to eat the plant. Like you mentioned, this is highly 114 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: toxic to insects, and it also impacts their central nervous system, 115 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: but in a much more dramatic way, where as we 116 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: would get like a little bit of a buzz with insects, 117 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: they can be paralyzed, they can even be killed. But 118 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: there are some insects that can tolerate a cup of joe. 119 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: In Some caffeine producing plants, like the nectar has a 120 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: little bit of caffeine in it, and when bees drink 121 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: that nectar, there's some evidence that it actually enhances their 122 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: ability to remember that plant's location because it's stimulating the 123 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: bee a little bit it's giving them, you know, mild 124 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: buzz pun intended. 125 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, No, I like it. We need more of that. Actually, 126 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: the more puns the better. 127 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: Yes, well you've come to the right podcast for better 128 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: or worse. But yeah, so it helps these bees kind 129 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: of remember where the plants are. But for a lot 130 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 1: of insects that are actually trying to eat the plant. 131 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: You know, they're not just sipping nectar. They're trying to 132 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: directly eat the fruit of the plant. It is causing 133 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: this very bad reaction in this their system where it 134 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: is actually potentially killing them. And an added benefit to 135 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: caffeine in TA plants and other caffeine producing plants is 136 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: that it can kill off parasitic fungus. So it is 137 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: not just something that's wonderful in our coffee. Even though 138 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: it seems like the plants made this for us to drink, 139 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: like hey, thanks plants, thanks for thinking of us, It 140 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: was actually meant for the plants the whole time. 141 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 2: And I think these coevolutionary relationships are so fascinating, and 142 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 2: I think that'll come up quite a bit today. But 143 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 2: the fact that it's good for bees to a certain 144 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: extent or the parts of the plant that bees interact 145 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: with are relatively safe for them. The concentrations are different, 146 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: but through herbivaly it's like nope, nope, do not passco 147 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: you know, you know, klay ten hundred dollars. Just like 148 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 2: again that plant I posted about, the angel's trumpet, which 149 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: is in the Brigmansia genus. For most mammals and most 150 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: insects like it is incredibly toxic, incredibly toxic. But for 151 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 2: their adapted pollinators, they can go in and drink the 152 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 2: nectar and they're totally fine. They have the you know, 153 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 2: evolutionary basis they need to keep themselves safe from those toxins. 154 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 2: And then they go when they spread the pollen and 155 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 2: the seeds and all that stuff, and just the the 156 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: mechanisms that govern some of these relationships are just so 157 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: fascinating me. 158 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, the specificity of it is really interesting to me. 159 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: I did see that post that you made, So the 160 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: Angel's trumpet, it's a beautiful flowers, this beautiful yellow trumpet 161 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: like flower. I just want to like stick my nose 162 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: in there and smell it. Is that a good idea? 163 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: Not not great? It's it's not great all parts of 164 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: the plant. Some people argue that the nectar is not toxic, 165 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 2: but I wouldn't risk that all parts of the plane 166 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 2: are toxic. There was a creator online a couple of 167 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: years ago that made this whole video of carrying a 168 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 2: couple of flowers around and spending the whole night smelling them. 169 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: I guess because somebody had told them that was you know, 170 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 2: it's toxic, you can't do that, and they're like, I'm 171 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 2: going to do it for the cloud, and then they 172 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 2: ended up in the hospital because it can definitely get 173 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: into your brain that way too, but definitely ingestion is 174 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 2: the worst. Yeah. Sure, so they do smell good. They're 175 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: a beautiful plant. But I tell people, maybe smell them 176 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 2: from a distance. Now, a couple feet away, you can 177 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 2: still smell it. Probably don't stick your face in it 178 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 2: or blow it like a trumpet, which some people do 179 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 2: and kind of explains a lot. 180 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: Maybe wafft it from two feet away, you know, Like 181 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: in chemistry class, you're supposed to wash things because if 182 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: you stick your nose in the test tube, it could 183 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: be bad. That was a lesson I learned in chemistry 184 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: after I stuck my nose into test tube and it 185 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: made my nose tickle. In a bad way. But yeah, 186 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: so there are definitely toxic plants we got to watch 187 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: out for. But yeah, like what you were saying, the 188 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: specificity of these plant animal interactions really interesting. And that 189 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: kind of brings me to talking about spice. So spice, 190 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: like hot spice, is another delicious plant offering that is 191 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: actually meant as a deadly defense. Like, how do you 192 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: tolerate spice seafood? Pretty well? Do you like spicy food? 193 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: I do? I do. So my parents are from India, 194 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: so I'm an Indian guy and we eat all the spices. 195 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: And I also live in Texas and so we eat 196 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: all the other different kinds of spices here. So I've 197 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 2: grown up eating spicy food and I really like it. 198 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: My wife, however, like completely just completely out on that, 199 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 2: not tolerant at all. So we have to sort of 200 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: try to meet in the middle sometimes, or I'll just 201 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 2: add like spicy stuff to my own food because I 202 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: don't want her to explode burst into flame. 203 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, no, I also like spice, and I have 204 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: thought that I've had a pretty high spice tolerance. But 205 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: I did once order like this super spicy drink that 206 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: they were like warning me, Hey, this is actually really spicy. 207 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: It was a I think it was a mango almost 208 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: like a mango smoothie, but they added some spice to it. 209 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: I was like, well, I've had spicy drinks before. It 210 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: sounds great, it sounds refreshing. That was a mistake. It 211 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: was a mistake I made. That was hubris. 212 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 2: Uh. Too close to the sun there. 213 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: Too close to the sun. I was like, four little 214 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: chili peppers on your menu. I'm sure that's fine. Uh, 215 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't. It wasn't fine, folks, And it's not fine 216 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: for a lot of things that want to prey on 217 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: wild chilies. So spices are relatively well tolerated by humans, 218 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: and we have grown to actually cultivate spicy plants, like 219 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 1: the peppers that we have. They're not usually just stuff 220 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: we pluck from the wild. We've domesticated them, We've grown them, 221 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: so they have these lovely large fruit that are very 222 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: hot and very delicious. But the seeds of wild chilies 223 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: are also laced with this very spicy substance called kepsasin, 224 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: which is something that you don't necessarily want in your 225 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: eyes or your sensitive membranes, but it is something. It 226 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: is that thing that you know like when you have 227 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: a spicy food. It's tasty and a little bit or 228 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: a lot if you're used to it can cause a 229 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: pleasant feeling, right that like sort of burning to a 230 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: certain extent is good. But if you're not as tolerant 231 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: of it, or you have too much, maybe hypothetically, it's 232 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: actually quite an unpleasant experience. You start weeping. You have 233 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: all these responses to it that you know because it 234 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: is It is irritating your tongue, it is irritating your 235 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: mucous membranes in your mouth, and in plants, it is 236 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: a way to help defend themselves against herbivores who do 237 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: not like that sensation at all. It can also protect 238 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: them against insectivores, and interestingly, if they do get bitten 239 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: by an insect, it leaves them vulnerable to things like fungus. 240 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: And then that spice that kept sayesin actually acts as 241 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: a weight an anti fungal the world's most delicious anti 242 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: fungal treatment. 243 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: And more of them should be delicious. Yeah, And I 244 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 2: think it's interesting because you mentioned that we have bread 245 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 2: and developed peppers of different kinds to be hotter or 246 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 2: less hot, or of different flavor. But some of those 247 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 2: wild ones, like the tiny little bush chilis and stuff 248 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: that are out there that are tiny and like bright purple, 249 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 2: will absolutely like take the roof off your mouth like 250 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 2: they're nuclear hot, and it'll taste very good. So we 251 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 2: have done a lot of work on a lot of 252 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 2: our plants. And that's something I think that's important to 253 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: realize too, is that the wild types of a lot 254 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: of these things, the you know, ancestral sort of plants 255 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 2: that led to what we have in our market now 256 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: are not what we see. We've worked so much to 257 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 2: select for things that we want and improve, like you said, 258 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 2: fruit size and flavor and color and all this stuff, 259 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: that there's some plants out there there, you know, genetically 260 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: very similar that would not be recognizable to most like 261 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: most consumers. 262 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Like you look at a wild banana, it 263 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: is not oh yeah, the comfortable handheld banana of today. 264 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: It's full of these large seeds that it is tiny, 265 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: and there's like hardly any fruit flesh in there that 266 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: you would eat without getting also a mouthful of seeds, 267 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: because the banana doesn't really just want to be eaten. 268 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: It wants its seeds to be distributed, so it wants 269 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: you to eat the fruit and the seeds, and then 270 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: what happens later, well, pody times and hey, you've planted 271 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: a new banana plant. 272 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know now we clone most of them 273 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 2: to be seedless. And so the big curved yellow fruit 274 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: everyone knows and loves, like you said, doesn't really exist 275 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: in nature that way. A point I wanted to make 276 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 2: too about since we're talking about peppers. So many plants 277 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: in the sulinacy family are just incredibly toxic in one 278 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 2: way or the other. It's just that we've happened to 279 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 2: find a few that will work for us, like tomatoes, 280 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: and well, the tubers of potato plants, you know, they're great. 281 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: The berries onto amato plants are not great. We call 282 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 2: them night shades for a reason. You know, you eat 283 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 2: the fruit and you eat the toxins, and then it 284 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: pulls the shades down and you go to sleep for 285 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 2: a while nighttime, maybe a long while. So yeah, but 286 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 2: all of the plants in that genus to a certain 287 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 2: or in that family to a certain extent. You know again, tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, peppers, tomatillos, 288 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 2: and even the angel's trumpet that we were talking about 289 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 2: earlier is in the same family, and I think in 290 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: belladonna and several others. It's like all these plants that 291 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 2: are incredibly toxic all kind of hang out in this 292 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 2: same family, in the same genus. And then again, poor Carl, 293 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: the product tester, each product tester was out there eating 294 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 2: sulinaceous berries and like, oh, the tomatoes are okay, those 295 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 2: ones are okay, those didn't. Like Carl's not. 296 00:17:54,920 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: Asleep, Yes, sleeping, Carl was yes, long na, very long 297 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: long time now exactly. Yeah, no, it is so interesting. 298 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, the the fact that it, of course, you know, 299 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: we can't we would have to like depend on other 300 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: humans to know if something is deadly to us, because 301 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: things that are deadly to humans may not be deadly 302 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: to some animals or vice versa. Like we might be 303 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: able to tolerate things other animals or insects might perish from. 304 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: And what's interesting to me like that that specificity of selecting, uh, 305 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: the the animals that the plant might actually benefit from. 306 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: So in the case of wild chilis and plants that 307 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: have capt sation, it actually is something that doesn't impact birds, 308 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: which is really interesting, Like any like if that bird 309 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: had my mango slushy it would drink that down, no problem. 310 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: It would laugh in my face because birds are not 311 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: really impacted that spice, the hot spice. They lack the 312 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: receptors that would cause that reaction, and while it would 313 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: cause pain to another herb before the bird's okay. And 314 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: the reason it's thought that plants have developed this relationship 315 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: with birds where the birds can eat something no problem, 316 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: and the plants have never really tried, well tried, they've 317 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 1: never really evolved. A defense mechanism against the birds is 318 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: that the birds are a great vehicle for distribution for 319 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: their seeds. The birds, they don't really have gnashing teeth, right, 320 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: so if they eat a fruit, they're going to swallow 321 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: it hole. To a certain extent, there's a little bit 322 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: of you know, rolling around in their gizzard and mashing 323 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: it up with stones. But like you know, they are 324 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: great for picking up seeds, eating the fruit. They digest 325 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: the fruit, but the seeds survive through their digestive tract 326 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: and then they fly off somewhere far away and they 327 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: poop them out. And a great thing about that delivery 328 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: mechanism is that a plant doesn't necessarily want all its 329 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: babies all in the same location because they are all 330 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: competing for the sun, they're all competing for nutrients. You 331 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: want some dispersion of plants, otherwise they're not as likely 332 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: to survive. 333 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and we see that with a lot of plants. 334 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 2: There is a native plant in my area called the 335 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 2: Yopon holly and the leaves actually we were talking about 336 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 2: caffeine earlier, have caffeine in them, and so the native 337 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,239 Speaker 2: indigenous people of my area as well as cowboys that 338 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 2: lived in this area would make tea and coffee like 339 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,959 Speaker 2: they call the cowboy coffee that they would make out 340 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 2: of the leaves and it was mildly caffeinated. And urbamate 341 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 2: comes from a similar plant. But the scientific name of 342 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 2: this plant is Ilex vomitoria for a reason. Has these 343 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 2: bright red pretty berries that are you know, colorful through 344 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 2: the winter. So a lot of people would try to 345 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 2: forage on them because it was the only thing that 346 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 2: was you know, ripe during the winter months in this area. 347 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: And they will ruin your day. Won't kill you, but 348 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 2: you'll have a bad couple of days. Yeah. But birds, 349 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 2: their metabolism is immune, and so they'll spread those seeds 350 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 2: far and wide, and you know, those relationships are really 351 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 2: just again very very interesting and reproductive strategies and plants 352 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: and dispersal strategies and plants are so weird in a 353 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 2: lot of ways, and they've evolved to be so bizarre 354 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 2: from like a animal perspective that they don't look like 355 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 2: I think a lot of us think they should sometimes 356 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 2: but it's like no bird, please eat this, please fly away, 357 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 2: go somewhere else. 358 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the sort of I mean, obviously, a single 359 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: plant is not making a plan, it's not deciding to 360 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: have these things happen. But I think it's it's really 361 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: interesting when you think about, like the almost like the 362 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: fact that plants have developed these evolutionary strategies that are 363 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: actually really clever. It's it kind of shifts your perspective 364 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: on like, plants aren't just like these inert, passive things 365 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: when it comes to evolution. They are responding to their environment, 366 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: albeit slowly, right Like an individual plant may take along 367 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: a lot longer than you know an animal to respond 368 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: to its environment. Although some plants do have the ability 369 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: to like clam closed or flick something off, kick something 370 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: with a little trigger, which I always find fun to 371 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: see these plants that have those sort of like explosive triggers. 372 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, it over a really long time scale. In 373 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: terms of evolution, they're very actively they're very actively adapting 374 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: to their environment, and they are interacting with animals, sometimes 375 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: aggressively and sometimes cooperatively for sure. 376 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 2: And just as a quick sidebar, and I just thought 377 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 2: of this as we were talking. We were talking about 378 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: breeding efforts and all that, and solinaceous plants and plants 379 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 2: in the Sulinacy genus in dealing with climate change. We're 380 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 2: noticing that some of our staple crops like tomatoes and 381 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 2: egg plants and a few other things are struggling a 382 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 2: lot more. The pollen grains d nature over a certain 383 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 2: temperature and so we don't set fruit as well all that, 384 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: so we're trying to figure out how to make them 385 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 2: more heat tolerant. There is a closely related plant in 386 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 2: the same genus, the Solanum genus, called silver leaf night shade. 387 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 2: It's like a common weed around here. It's a perennial 388 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 2: weed with like super poisonous little berries, so good, but 389 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 2: it'll take incredibly extreme temperatures like one hundred and fifty 390 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: degrees fahrenheit. It'll still set flowers and fruit like credible temperatures. 391 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 2: So they're trying to breed some of that heat tolerance 392 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 2: back into eggplants, just as you know, some trials. Uh, 393 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: and they keep just coming up with poisonous egg plants. Yeah, 394 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 2: that's what I thought might which is, you know, objectively 395 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: pretty funny. 396 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 397 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: Uh, not great in terms of what we're trying to do, 398 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: but uh, some of these efforts take time, and there's 399 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 2: so many like specific things, and like passing on some 400 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 2: of these traits can be so difficult. Like I think 401 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 2: we'll get there, uh, but we just need to make 402 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 2: sure we don't put out a whole bunch of poisonous plants. 403 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a tall order, I think, to try 404 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: to quickly adapt plants for our broken planet when it 405 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: took us so many years just to like make an 406 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: edible broccoli. You know, you don't. You don't turn a 407 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: wolf into a dog in like a day. But yeah, 408 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: I mean it takes a minute. It's I mean, it's 409 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: not impossible, but it's tricky for sure. Uh, And there's 410 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: gonna you know, there's always these unexpected consequences of fiddling 411 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: with a sort of these selective adaptations, which are always 412 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: fun for Carl to discover when he has to taste 413 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: the egg plant. 414 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 2: Yep, yep for Carl or Carl. 415 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take a quick break, but when 416 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: we get back, we're going to talk about plants out 417 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: smarting their enemies. So we are back, and like we 418 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: kind of were talking about before, it's sort of hard 419 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: to imagine a plant being clever or smart due to 420 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: the lack of brains or central nervous system, Like, is 421 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: there any is there really like anything to plants that 422 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: is sensory? Can they respond to their environment in any way? 423 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 2: They respond to their environment in a lot of ways, 424 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 2: and we're finding out through more and more research that 425 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 2: they respond in ways that we didn't really like attribute 426 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 2: to them. So you know, the biggest one is light. Right, 427 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 2: Like light, it drives the way that they grow, the 428 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: directions they grow. They respond to gravity, they respond to temperature, 429 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 2: and they can sort of adjust their metabolism in response 430 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 2: to that. For example, when it starts getting towards fall 431 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 2: and the days get shorter, they get less sunlight, the 432 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 2: temperatures get cooler, they'll change some of the chemical structure 433 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 2: in the sugars that they're putting out to help winerize themselves, 434 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: or the chlorophyll will drain out of the leaves and 435 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 2: we see these other pigments that give us like pretty 436 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 2: fall colors, and so that's definitely a response to the environment. 437 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 2: We also see something interesting when plants are grown in competition. 438 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 2: Have you ever heard the term crown shyness? 439 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: No, I haven't. 440 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 2: So if you look at so if you were to 441 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 2: stand in a mature forest, a deciduous forest, and look up, 442 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 2: you know where you would think that all the trees 443 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 2: would grow together, you'll actually see gaps between them where 444 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 2: the crowns of these trees are trying not to touch 445 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 2: each other, and it looks really cool from above. I've 446 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: seen some like drone and aerial footage of like gaps 447 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 2: like lines and gaps between trees. And some of the 448 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 2: mechanisms for that is they you know, blow into each 449 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 2: other and little twigs get broken off and they grow 450 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 2: in different directions and things like that. But there have 451 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 2: been a couple studies that suggest that while like leaves 452 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 2: on trees or leaves on plants mostly absorb red and 453 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 2: blue light, a little bit of yellow and reflect mostly green, 454 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 2: they still do have receptors in some of these pigments 455 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 2: that will absorb green light, and it's thought, and again 456 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 2: this is a little bit hard to prove that they 457 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 2: can quote unquote sort of see each other. And so 458 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: green light reflecting off the leaves of one plant bounce 459 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 2: into the receptors of another plant at a certain like frequency, 460 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,239 Speaker 2: as certain intensity, and the plant can kind of detect, oh, 461 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 2: there's another plant over here, I should put more into 462 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 2: growing away from it. And so there's these complex mechanisms 463 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,479 Speaker 2: that they respond to each other. But then also things 464 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 2: like organic compounds floating in the air. Tomatoes tomatoes, if 465 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: you've ever grown tomatoes, they have a really really specific smell, 466 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 2: like they nothing really smells like a tomato plant. 467 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not tomatoes or tomato sauce doesn't really smell 468 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: like a tomato plant. Tomato plant. I really love the 469 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: smell of a tomato plant, by the way, but it 470 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: is different. It's like it is. 471 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 2: It's really and it's really an interesting, unique smell. But 472 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: they have these little hairs on them called tricomes that 473 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 2: have a little bulb on the end, and when you 474 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 2: brush against them, those bulbs explode and releases release these 475 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 2: volatile organic compounds into the air, which other tomato plants 476 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 2: can detect and start producing defense compounds against herbivory. So like, 477 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 2: if a caterpillar is chewing on tomato plant A, it'll 478 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: release these compounds into the air that other plants in 479 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,239 Speaker 2: the community can detect, and they'll start sort of like 480 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 2: circling the wagons, so to speak, before they're preyed upon. Also, 481 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 2: some of the predators of caterpillars and herbivores can detect 482 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 2: these compounds, so like wasps will come in and start 483 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: feeding on caterpillars or some birds I believe can detect it, 484 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 2: and they'll come and start picking things off. 485 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: So these are the evolutionary snitch technique. 486 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. They call in reinforcements, they cry for help, 487 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 2: and it's again this complex sort of communication web, which 488 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 2: we don't really attribute to plants very often. Yeah, because 489 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 2: they're not, like, they don't have mouths, which I think 490 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 2: I'm happy about. I don't really want to know what. 491 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: They have to say, but I just don't want to 492 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: see a pair of lips on a plant, honestly. But no, 493 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I agree, I think that we underestimate plants. 494 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: You know, obviously a lot of These reactions are not 495 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, an indivi plant thinking it through, but when 496 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: you zoom out on an evolutionary scale, it's really really clever. 497 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: What these plants have, you know, over many years of 498 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: evolution come up with so speaking of being mean to 499 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: caterpillars because hey, I love plants, so I love bullying 500 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: a caterpillar. Because caterpillars are sure, they're cute. I mean, 501 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: some are a little bit gross, but they are a 502 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: larva and their whole thing is to eat as much 503 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: as they possibly can. They are just like tubes with 504 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: a mouth and a butt and a desire to consume 505 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: the world because they need I mean pretty much just 506 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: with extra details. So they need all of that energy 507 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: to fuel a transformation from the caterpillar form into a 508 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: moth or butterfly. It's a costly transformation, so they need 509 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: to consume a lot of food and they can absolutely 510 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: decimate a plant. And what's especially obnoxious for plants is 511 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: the fact that butterflies and moths will often intentionally lay 512 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: their eggs on their plant of choice to set up 513 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: they're young with basically a plant trust fund. So they 514 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: hatched and it's like great, I'm already sitting on food 515 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,719 Speaker 1: and then they eat that whole plant. So some plants 516 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: have developed a very clever defense. So the passion flower 517 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: is like, it's actually a whole genus of beautiful flowers. 518 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: They're almost like hypnotizingly beautiful. 519 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 2: Strange. 520 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they look like they are some kind of 521 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: alien eyeball. It's really beautiful. It's just like wavy sunbursts. 522 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: Some are like this vibrant purple, some are these bright reds. 523 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: They're mostly found in Central and South America. They're also 524 00:31:54,680 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: found in Mexico and the US. And the Heliconis butterfly 525 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: genus is just as beautiful. It's got these beautiful black, 526 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: yellow and orange wings and it is also found in 527 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: the passion flowers territory. So we've got a little bit 528 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: of conflict, a little bit of tension here. So these butterflies, 529 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: despite being vicious plant murderers, are actually really good parents. 530 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: They want their babies set up for a good future. 531 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: So if they spot a plant that's already laden with 532 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: butterfly eggs, they'll actually move on because they don't want 533 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: their babies to have to compete with other caterpillars. It's 534 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: kind of like how plants like to disperse their seeds 535 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: because they don't want their I mean want quote unquote, 536 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: it is not advantageous for their offspring to have to 537 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: compete with other plants. In the same way, it's not 538 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: advantageous for these butterfly offspring to have to compete with 539 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: other offsprings. So the better strategy is to wait until 540 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: you find a plant that doesn't have these eggs. So 541 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: some species of fash and flower have developed a strategy 542 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: of mimicking the presence of butterfly eggs with bumps on 543 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: their leaves. So from what I can tell, it seems 544 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: like these are essentially like these sort of swollen glands 545 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: that are on the leaves and they they're like they're 546 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: three dimensional bumps that kind of look like an egg 547 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: has been laid there, and. 548 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 2: It's yeah, and it's if you look at it, it 549 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 2: really does look like little clusters of butterfly eggs or 550 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 2: you know, caterpillar eggs. However, you want to kind of 551 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: cut that, and they tend to lay them these neat 552 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 2: little rows in these little clusters, and that is what 553 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 2: the plant has figured. I mean, again, we talk about 554 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 2: we anthropomorphize a lot when it's hard. 555 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: Not to it is, it's really hard not to. I 556 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: even do it with my houseplants. I like talk to them. 557 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: I know that talking to them isn't actually helping them, 558 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: Like there's that whole thing of like, oh, you talk 559 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: to your plants, it's good for them. It's that's not exactly. 560 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: You'd have to be huffing on them a whole lot 561 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: for them to notice the co two you're producing. But 562 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: I still do it because I love them. It's just 563 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: so hard not to anthropomorphize plants, especially when they're so 564 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: smart like this one. 565 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, and I actually have a theory 566 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 2: about the talking year plants thing. I think, you know, 567 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 2: as humans will pack bond with literally anything. Yes, Like 568 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 2: I've got googly eyes on all like half of my 569 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 2: plants back here so I can talk to them. But 570 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 2: I think subconsciously we probably care for things better when 571 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 2: we anthropomorphize them a little bit, when we give them 572 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 2: personalities and names and stuff, and so that's you know, 573 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 2: I think it's more in us thing than the plants thing, 574 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 2: which is to me kind of fascinating. 575 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: We're projecting onto them probably like all my plants personalities 576 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: are probably my untreated issues that I have but anyways, moving. 577 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 2: On anyway, Yeah, but now there are just really ingenious, 578 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 2: clever strategies, and I think that you know, over time 579 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 2: we discover more and more and more of these, and 580 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 2: as our world sort of changes around them, we see 581 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 2: new things popping up and new responses to things that 582 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 2: we put into the environment and all of that, and 583 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 2: that it kind of blows my mind that, yes, plants 584 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 2: do adapt on a grand scale fairly slowly, but when 585 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 2: we really push them evolutionarily, like, they'll adapt pretty quick. 586 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 2: Their genomes are so flexible. They have you know, every 587 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 2: single plant cell has all its DNA, so it can 588 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 2: be any plant cell. And because of that, they have 589 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 2: this really swift adaptation at times to different things. And 590 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 2: again they just need the right push and they kind 591 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 2: of start figuring things out, so to speak. 592 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: Can you think of an example of plants adapting to 593 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: sort of human influence and not like not our sort 594 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 1: of selective unnatural selection of plants, but a wild plant 595 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: sort of I know, I don't want to put you 596 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: on the spot, but like a wild plant adapting to 597 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: sort of human influence environmental changes, so. 598 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 2: You know, evolutionarily, I don't know specifically, but I think 599 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 2: often of plants that if even if they're not like 600 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 2: actively adapting the things, they're taking advantage of human intervention. 601 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,359 Speaker 2: So a great example is a plant called kudzuo, which 602 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 2: is this super aggressive vining plant that they planted throughout 603 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 2: the southeastern US and I believe it's I'm probably going 604 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 2: to be wrong about this. It's I believe it's native 605 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 2: to parts of South America. Really aggressive, grows on hillsides, 606 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 2: and they planted it throughout Georgia and the American southeast 607 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 2: for soil conservation. So they were like, oh, this grows fast, 608 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 2: it grows lots of roots. We can plant it on 609 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 2: a hillside. The hillsides won't slide into our cities anymore, 610 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 2: which is if you are someone who enjoys cities, having 611 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 2: mountains not end up in the middle of it is 612 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 2: usually useful. But this, yeah, this plant though, is so 613 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 2: aggressive outside of its native habitat, where you know it 614 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 2: has some checks and balances from herbivy and different things 615 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 2: that like you can look at six month time lapses 616 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 2: of like houses disappearing and like telephone poles just looking 617 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 2: like trees just covered in kudzoo, and they're so adept 618 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,879 Speaker 2: to growing on anything like even porous like brick, or 619 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 2: like they grow on trees natively, so they'll grow up 620 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 2: telephone poles and cover wires. So you know, it's not 621 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:53,800 Speaker 2: necessarily that they have evolved that rapidly to overcome some things. 622 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 2: But they're just so well adapted to some of the 623 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 2: regions where we throw them that they're like, oh, yeah, no, 624 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 2: this is great. I'll grow everywhere and you can't stop me. 625 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: The unstoppable plant. I wonder why we haven't had a 626 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: horror movie about Kadzoo. 627 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 2: It seems like other should be. 628 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I mean like winds, because we did have 629 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: We had the happening, but I feel like that wasn't 630 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: as exciting as like a vine that grows so fast 631 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: it can just devour you. 632 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, if your dog stands still too long. Yeah, you know. 633 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 2: Actually a better example probably in it's not something that 634 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 2: we have purposefully selected for, but we're seeing wild populations 635 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 2: of plants developing lots of herbicide resistance in agricultural lands, 636 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 2: so where we go out and we spray herbicides to 637 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,399 Speaker 2: like control weeds in our field, keep our fields clean 638 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 2: and all of that. You know, any kind of chemical 639 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 2: intervention selects for resistant populations. Right, if you're not getting 640 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,320 Speaker 2: rid of every individual, the ones that survive in general 641 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 2: have resistance, and that's why we have or can develop resistance. 642 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 2: Like that's where we're seeing like you know, antibiotic resistant 643 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 2: staphylococcus and all these other things. So we have an 644 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 2: amaranth it's called palmer amaranth that's a really common like 645 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 2: agricultural weed out in our part of the country here 646 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 2: in the US, and some of the common herbicides that 647 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 2: have been used over the past thirty years through like 648 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 2: bad application practice, overuse, all of these things, we have 649 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 2: populations of this weed now or this plant weed is 650 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:39,919 Speaker 2: sort of a loaded, you know, stigmatized subjective kind of term. Yeah, 651 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 2: but we've got populations of this plant that are almost 652 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 2: completely resistant to these herbicides that just worked a decade ago, 653 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 2: and now you can't control them in a lot of 654 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 2: our fields, and they're crossing out with wild populations. And 655 00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: we're seeing a lot of those types of problems with 656 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 2: really aggressive plants, maybe introduced plants that are starting to 657 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 2: move into and cause problems in native ecosystems. And so 658 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 2: that is I mean, that's pretty rapid adaptation and evolution 659 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 2: over ten twenty years of just hard selecting for resistant populations. 660 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: So what you're saying is we are breeding an army 661 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: of unstoppable superplants that should have a grudge against us 662 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 1: because we did try to kill them. 663 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, and yeah. And they'll play you know, 664 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 2: ads for chemical companies as propaganda if they ever become sentient, 665 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 2: that'll just be in a loop somewhere. 666 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take a quick break and when 667 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: we get back, we're going to kind of change gears 668 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 1: to friendship. So we are back, and you know, this 669 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: podcast we talk about a lot of grim stuff. We 670 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: talk about a lot of you know, animals eating animals, 671 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,839 Speaker 1: plants eating animals, animals eating plants. But what about friendship? 672 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: Is their room for friendship? Absolutely yes, So I think 673 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 1: that sometimes the best defense is good friendship. And for plants, 674 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: this makes a lot of sense because they don't have jaws, 675 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: they don't have legs, they don't have arms, they can't 676 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: just like punch a goat in the face. So who 677 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 1: can protect them? Well, they can make friends with an 678 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: animal perhaps who has something in it for them, Right, 679 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,240 Speaker 1: Like in most cases when you have a friendship between 680 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 1: one species and another, even if it crosses kingdoms, you 681 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: need to provide some benefit for the other. So some 682 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 1: plants will team up with ants who can protect their 683 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: new plant friend from herbivorous insects and even even herbivorous mammals. 684 00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: So the deal works like this. So the plant will 685 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: offer the ant some tasty nectar, and so the ants 686 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: they're happy they have a good thing going here and 687 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: will defensively attack any insects trying to bite their sugar planty. 688 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,440 Speaker 1: And basically the plants will pay the ants in nectar 689 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: maybe refuge in exchange for protection, which is you know, 690 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a little bit like the ants are 691 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 1: a mafia, but it's also you know, kind of a 692 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: fun mafia situation. 693 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 2: Acute yeah, yeah, acute mafia. And that is such a 694 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:44,280 Speaker 2: fascinating relationship because I mean, ants are intelligent, organized little insects, 695 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,760 Speaker 2: at least at a sort of you know, population level, 696 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 2: a colony kind of works together, and I mean, it's 697 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 2: amazing what ants will do. But we see this a 698 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 2: lot on like acacia trees. We see it on mesquite trees, 699 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,239 Speaker 2: which your native to Texas where I live. And so 700 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 2: you'll be walking around and you'll just see these trees 701 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,799 Speaker 2: covered with ants, and the ants are going after these 702 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 2: extra floral nectaries which come out of leaves in different places, 703 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 2: and yeah, the plant pays them in in sugar water essentially. 704 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:22,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love acacia trees actually, so like bullhorn Acacia trees, 705 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 1: which are found mostly in Central America, have definitely developed 706 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,840 Speaker 1: a strong friendship with ants. So they attract ant queens 707 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:36,240 Speaker 1: with their scent, and ant queen will take up residents. 708 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 1: Actually inside the it's called bullhorn because it has like 709 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,480 Speaker 1: these two little like double horn thorns. They're not they're 710 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: not little thorns. They're like big gnarly horns like you 711 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: could you could die if you fall on one, but 712 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: they're actually hollow and inside of these horns the ants 713 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: can take up residents. And so it's like these little 714 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,560 Speaker 1: barracks for all these ants to live in, and throughout 715 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 1: the tree there's all sorts of sets of these horns. 716 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: It's very metal to like house your army inside bullhorns 717 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,839 Speaker 1: that are also very pointy and sharp and. 718 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:18,399 Speaker 2: Stabby, giant hollow needles full of ants. That's a there's 719 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 2: another nightmare for you. 720 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:28,360 Speaker 1: And so these ants will protect the acacia bullhorn acacia, 721 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: and they will actually attack other plants that try to 722 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,240 Speaker 1: grow over the acacia. So sometimes you have plants versus animals, 723 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: but sometimes you have plants versus plants like vines. Invasive 724 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,680 Speaker 1: vines like the kudzu that you talked about, can be 725 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 1: bad news for a plant. It's actually sort of a 726 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 1: parasitic relationship because the vine will climb the plant, use 727 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,359 Speaker 1: the plant as a structure to get sunlight, to get 728 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:59,279 Speaker 1: more resources. Some plants actually like directly steal nutrients from 729 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: their host plant, so it's a bad situation. But the 730 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 1: ants will actually attack any vines trying to grow on 731 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: their beloved acacia tree. They will also sting herbivorous mammals 732 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,399 Speaker 1: these huge things, right, Like, what can you do as 733 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 1: a plant against a big mammal trying to eat you. Well, 734 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,359 Speaker 1: you got a little lant, buddy, and it's got a 735 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 1: very very painful sting, and it'll attack anything trying to 736 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,239 Speaker 1: chomp down on it. 737 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, just so fascinating. And I've always thought it's interesting 738 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 2: that ants will do that with aphids too. So on 739 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,240 Speaker 2: the other side of this relationship, they'll protect a fids. 740 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 2: They farm aphids, which is the weirdest thing to think of. 741 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,120 Speaker 1: So cute I think it is. I mean, like it's 742 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,359 Speaker 1: a little gross, right, because aphids like instead of melking them, 743 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: they sort of like squeeze out sugary substance called honeydew 744 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 1: from their butts and the ants slurp it up. But 745 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of cute. It's a little bit 746 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: cute because basically ants are farmers. They have these little 747 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: little a fids. They also farm scale insects. Those scale 748 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,920 Speaker 1: insects are these peny tiny insects that look like little 749 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: barnacles almost. They're actually not great for plants or like 750 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,480 Speaker 1: the Bulbornicacia, because they'll stick on to the leaves or 751 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,280 Speaker 1: the you know, twigs, and they will suck out sap. 752 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,440 Speaker 1: But the ants will actually milk the scale insects for 753 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 1: their honey, do that sugary substance and will protect the 754 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,160 Speaker 1: scale insects. So it's kind of something where the ants 755 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,880 Speaker 1: may be simultaneously protecting this tree but also doing a 756 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,720 Speaker 1: little farming, and that farming of the scale insects isn't 757 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 1: great for the tree, but on average, the ants do 758 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,320 Speaker 1: more benefit for the tree then they harm the tree, 759 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: So it works out. 760 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, industrious little things, aren't they. 761 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 1: Yes, I like though that they you know, because farming, 762 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,680 Speaker 1: you could do farming where you're protecting the land and 763 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 1: respet afecting your environment, which is not something that humans 764 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,880 Speaker 1: often have in modern history. Were not great at that. 765 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,520 Speaker 1: But you know, these little ants they've got it figured out. 766 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,960 Speaker 1: They can farm on the tree but also protect the tree. 767 00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:17,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty cool. 768 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:22,880 Speaker 1: It's very cool. I really love these relationships between the 769 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,480 Speaker 1: plants and these ants. It's just it's like, I imagine them 770 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: having this beautiful friendship, this little ant society that loves 771 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: their tree. Uh. There was that movie about it. I 772 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,280 Speaker 1: think it was called Avatar, and it was all about 773 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 1: the ant colony. But they were big and they were blue, 774 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: and they lived in a magical tree and yeah. 775 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,640 Speaker 2: They controlled like sky dragons with their hair. I don't know. 776 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was it was very accurate to the. 777 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,239 Speaker 2: World of ants. Yeah, I think it was a documentary. 778 00:47:54,239 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 1: Actually, Yeah, I do feel somewhat cheated out of getting 779 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,799 Speaker 1: a really good ant movie that first of all, all 780 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,880 Speaker 1: the ants that do anything are always dudes, which sucks, 781 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:13,720 Speaker 1: it's not true. Yeah, and also like the just showing 782 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,400 Speaker 1: ants at like a realistic movie showing them like farming 783 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,960 Speaker 1: and cultivating and protecting trees, and that would be great. 784 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 2: Come on, guys, yeah, I would watch that. I want 785 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 2: to see that. 786 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,960 Speaker 1: I yes, see, you've already got two viewers, Hollywood, get 787 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:29,440 Speaker 1: on that. 788 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 2: That's all you need, right. 789 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:38,399 Speaker 1: I I completely agree. Well, is there anything else that 790 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,719 Speaker 1: you want people to know about plants and how they 791 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,680 Speaker 1: are not as helpless as we think? 792 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,480 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, so many things you know, from like we 793 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 2: were talking about different types of thorns and spines and 794 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,880 Speaker 2: like physical defenses, and sometimes they combine the two. Sometimes 795 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:01,000 Speaker 2: they fill their spines with ants. You know. I just 796 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,520 Speaker 2: think that, you know, plants are nothing if not survivors 797 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,600 Speaker 2: on this planet. They sort of form and I like 798 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,640 Speaker 2: to think about it that plants are both at the 799 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,600 Speaker 2: bottom end at the top of our food webs. You know, 800 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:20,120 Speaker 2: they are food for, either directly or indirectly pretty much 801 00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,359 Speaker 2: all life on the planet. But then at the end 802 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,160 Speaker 2: of the day, they're nutrient cyclers as well. They're just 803 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,359 Speaker 2: really patient. As things break down in the soil, they 804 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,480 Speaker 2: turn them into more plants, and you know, the cycle continues. 805 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 2: And I think that I like to say that plants 806 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:36,840 Speaker 2: always win in the end, they just they just have 807 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,480 Speaker 2: a lot of patients one way or the other. 808 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: That seems menacing. It sounds like when the super plant 809 00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 1: uprising that we have inadvertently bred with our herbicides. 810 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:48,920 Speaker 2: You're gonna be on they're ready for us. 811 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,759 Speaker 1: You're going to be on the plant side, Like are 812 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,440 Speaker 1: you a plant? Are you a plant? Plant? 813 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,640 Speaker 2: You'll never know. I'll never tell, But no, I think 814 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,520 Speaker 2: it's it's just for me. It's just such a cool 815 00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,120 Speaker 2: picture of you know, all these relations just we've been 816 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,719 Speaker 2: talking about, plus so many more positive ones of you know, 817 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,840 Speaker 2: how plants respond to different insects, both in a friendly 818 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 2: sort of way and in a defensive sort of way. 819 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:20,239 Speaker 2: It it shows me pictures of things that are fascinating 820 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,040 Speaker 2: and worth protecting and worth maintaining. So I think the 821 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,960 Speaker 2: more people learn about how complicated these relationships are and 822 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,000 Speaker 2: how susceptible they can be to you know, climate change 823 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,480 Speaker 2: and things like that should be encouragement for us to 824 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,040 Speaker 2: do better and keep finding new things and keep protecting 825 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:40,399 Speaker 2: these things. 826 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,480 Speaker 1: I absolutely agree. I think that plants are sometimes overlooked 827 00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,560 Speaker 1: when we think about like protecting the environment, because a 828 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,120 Speaker 1: panda bear that's really cute and cuddly, and we want 829 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,560 Speaker 1: to protect it. A koala, Hey that's huggable. It's really not. 830 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,040 Speaker 1: It would rip your face off, but we think it's 831 00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 1: We think it's huggable. 832 00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 2: They look cuddly, they. 833 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,680 Speaker 1: Do cuddly until you hear them scream. But yeah, I 834 00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,560 Speaker 1: mean it is something I think that is really important 835 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:12,959 Speaker 1: to you know, really appreciate plants as Hey, we would 836 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,680 Speaker 1: not be here without plants at It's just what it 837 00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't happen. It's where we live, it's how we eat, 838 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:23,719 Speaker 1: it's how we breathe, it's everything. And they're not They're 839 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 1: not just passively sitting there. They are actively adapting. They 840 00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:31,319 Speaker 1: have amazing adaptations. They respond to their environments. So even 841 00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,880 Speaker 1: though this podcast is typically animal themed, I am very 842 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:40,800 Speaker 1: much pro plant and I will immediately surrender the plant uprising. 843 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,719 Speaker 2: Oh yeah no, I'm not fighting them. I'll just I'll 844 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,160 Speaker 2: welcome our new overlords. 845 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 1: Well, on that note, before we go, we've got to 846 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,319 Speaker 1: play a little game, and that game is called Gifts. 847 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,440 Speaker 1: Who's Squawking the Mystery Animal Sound Game? Every week I 848 00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,360 Speaker 1: play a mystery animal sound and you the listener, and 849 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,480 Speaker 1: you the gifts, try to guess who is making that sound. 850 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:07,640 Speaker 1: Last week hint was this this little guy isn't happy 851 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,560 Speaker 1: about being put in the discount beIN. 852 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,040 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be real bad at this. 853 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,960 Speaker 1: To be fair, I don't think I would get this 854 00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:29,080 Speaker 1: one if I hadn't, if I didn't do this myself. 855 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:35,919 Speaker 2: Uh all right, I'm gonna guess, did you said discount Ben, 856 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:37,600 Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, hamster. 857 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:44,960 Speaker 1: You're close, sort of close. This is actually budgets frog. 858 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:49,799 Speaker 1: Congratulations to Auntie Bee, Joey P, and Violta F who 859 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:54,920 Speaker 1: all guess correctly. It is a species of frog that 860 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:59,719 Speaker 1: is often kept as a pet, and it is notable 861 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:05,320 Speaker 1: or being a squat little guy who's very weird looking. 862 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,799 Speaker 2: I identify strongly with that squat little guy who's weird 863 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:16,120 Speaker 2: looking now in my head because you said I was close. 864 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,640 Speaker 2: Like hamsters are just amphibious frog or like frogs are 865 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:23,799 Speaker 2: amphibious hamsters, Yeah, pretty much for me. 866 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,239 Speaker 1: I mean hamsters. They have these cheek pouches where they 867 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,560 Speaker 1: can stick anything in their mouth indiscriminately, and frogs will 868 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,319 Speaker 1: also put anything in their mouths indiscriminately. It's you know, 869 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,560 Speaker 1: they could be friends if probably they didn't try like 870 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: eating each other, which I show. I imagine a frog 871 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,759 Speaker 1: comes up to a hamster and is trying to get 872 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,439 Speaker 1: that hamster into its mouth, while the hamster is trying 873 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,400 Speaker 1: to get the frog into its mouth in sort of 874 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:59,840 Speaker 1: a oraboros type fashion. But yeah, this is found in Bolivia, Argentina, Paraguay. 875 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,319 Speaker 1: But yeah, it is kept as pets, which you know, 876 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:08,560 Speaker 1: I don't think this is the worst of the pets, 877 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 1: of the exotic pets, but I'm something of the opinion 878 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,480 Speaker 1: that it's it's tricky. I think to keep a frog 879 00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:21,960 Speaker 1: make it happy. It's also called the Freddy Krueger frog. 880 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,600 Speaker 1: I think that's because its skin is kind of pale 881 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,600 Speaker 1: and it screams. I'm not really sure why it's called that, 882 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,680 Speaker 1: how many people even call it that, or if it's 883 00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,200 Speaker 1: just like fans of the frog. 884 00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,480 Speaker 2: See I'm having the oh wow, that is not what 885 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:43,239 Speaker 2: I expected this guy to look like. It is Wednesday, 886 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:43,760 Speaker 2: my dudes. 887 00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:48,879 Speaker 1: It is the Wednesday my Dude's frog. Okay, okay, there 888 00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,400 Speaker 1: is a meme call it It's Wednesday, my dudes, and 889 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,040 Speaker 1: it's a little frog saying it's Wednesday, my dudes. You 890 00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:56,920 Speaker 1: know Internet humor. 891 00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:59,920 Speaker 2: I'm glad to know that this guy exists. 892 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:07,799 Speaker 1: But yeah, they will just pretty much eat anything they want. 893 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:13,160 Speaker 1: They will. They're quite aggressive, thus the extremely shrill and 894 00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:18,680 Speaker 1: angry squeaking they will. They will puff themselves up. They 895 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 1: will eat other frogs if they can fit them in 896 00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,960 Speaker 1: their mouths. Pretty much anything that goes in their mouths 897 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,880 Speaker 1: they will eat. Even as tadpoles. They will try to 898 00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:36,319 Speaker 1: eat each other. They're kind of baby cannibals, so that's fun. 899 00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:39,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I. 900 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:44,760 Speaker 1: Always love a baby cannibal. On to this week's mystery 901 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:50,200 Speaker 1: animal sound. This hollering little fella may not sniff so 902 00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:57,160 Speaker 1: many butts, but it does love digging. Hello, so it 903 00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,520 Speaker 1: is not the man saying hello, good morning. 904 00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:01,800 Speaker 2: That's Carl. 905 00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,600 Speaker 1: That's Carl. Hi, Carl, thanks for writing all those deadly 906 00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,800 Speaker 1: nightshade plans for us. Do you have any guesses? 907 00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:12,879 Speaker 2: I think I actually know what this is. I think 908 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:13,720 Speaker 2: that is a praank. 909 00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:18,560 Speaker 1: You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to bleep 910 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,839 Speaker 1: out your answers so our listeners can't cheat, but they 911 00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:27,719 Speaker 1: will know that you guess correctly. Congratulations, it's as I 912 00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:32,000 Speaker 1: think you know who was making that adorable little You 913 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,080 Speaker 1: can write to me at Creature feature Pod at gmail 914 00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:40,600 Speaker 1: dot com uh, doctor Boliga, where can people find you? 915 00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,400 Speaker 1: You were so lovely to have on the show. 916 00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,160 Speaker 2: Oh it was so much fun. I really enjoyed this. 917 00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,200 Speaker 2: I am all over the internet for better or worse. 918 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:54,160 Speaker 2: You can find me at the Plant prof on Instagram, Twitter, 919 00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,560 Speaker 2: or TikTok, and you can also find my podcast Planthropology 920 00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,320 Speaker 2: on Instagram, in Twitter and Facebook. 921 00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:05,440 Speaker 1: I try so hard to avoid TikTok, but I have 922 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,359 Speaker 1: to admit your plant videos are one of the only 923 00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:12,320 Speaker 1: things I do not avoid that I must consume. I 924 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,480 Speaker 1: love I love them so much. I also love the 925 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:20,840 Speaker 1: debunking of DIY plants. Thanks. 926 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:22,400 Speaker 2: I will never know case on the internet. 927 00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,920 Speaker 1: So you mean, if like I hack up a plant 928 00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,080 Speaker 1: and then shove that plant inside a banana peel, I 929 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:34,320 Speaker 1: won't get a beautiful bush. 930 00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,560 Speaker 2: You know you'll get something probably fruitflies. 931 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:41,560 Speaker 1: Well at least I'm growing somebody. Well, thank you so 932 00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,200 Speaker 1: much for joining me today, and thank you so much 933 00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,280 Speaker 1: for listening. And hey, thanks to the Space Classics for 934 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,040 Speaker 1: their super awesome song Exo Lumina. Creature features a production 935 00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,600 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like the one you just heard, 936 00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,040 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts. 937 00:57:57,720 --> 00:57:58,360 Speaker 2: Or Hey guess what. 938 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,400 Speaker 1: Wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I don't judge you. 939 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:07,520 Speaker 1: See you next Wednesday. M