Speaker 1: Alz Media.
Speaker 2: Everyone. Robert Evans here back to introduced. It could happen
Speaker 2: here Part two of my discussion with Mia Wong of
Speaker 2: the history of self immolation protests. We'll be starting with
Speaker 2: Tunisia in this one and then moving on from there,
Speaker 2: so please buckle up and listen in. But I will
Speaker 2: move us on to talking about Tunisia, which is the
Speaker 2: last place we will talk about self immolation protest.
Speaker 3: Oh, I want to end. I guess a bit. I
Speaker 3: want to end after you talk about Tunisia with one
Speaker 3: in China. That kind of worked, Okay, well, that'll be nice.
Speaker 3: So there was a you know, Tunisia existed for most
Speaker 3: of the twenty first century under a dictator. This state
Speaker 3: of affairs changed for unfortunately a fairly limited period of time.
Speaker 3: On December seventeenth, twenty ten, when a young man and
Speaker 3: he was twenty six, Mohammed was Zizi, went out to
Speaker 3: sell fruit. And you know, Mohammed lived in a very
Speaker 3: poor region, a very poor part of Tunisia, the city
Speaker 3: of cd Boozid. It's about one hundred miles south of
Speaker 3: tunis which is the capital. And like a lot of people,
Speaker 3: you know, in that part of the world, it is
Speaker 3: not uncommon, particularly for young men, because unemployment is so high,
Speaker 3: for young men to kind of make their living doing
Speaker 3: a mix of odd jobs and like odd vending, right
Speaker 3: where you're just kind of like selling whatever you can
Speaker 3: get your hands on and think that you can make
Speaker 3: a profit on because there's there's not jobs in the
Speaker 3: traditional sense, and because political corruption was so horrific in
Speaker 3: the state at that point in time. It's one of
Speaker 3: those things where most everybody who's out there selling shit
Speaker 3: on the street is breaking the law by doing it, right,
Speaker 3: because you can't get the permit, because the permit is
Speaker 3: basically a bribe, and you can't afford the bribe, right,
Speaker 3: That's how a lot of this stuff works. So, you know,
Speaker 3: Mohammed kind of prior to this, he had he had
Speaker 3: been his friends. When you read interviews with people who
Speaker 3: knew him, he was always like one of these guys
Speaker 3: who was like really upbeat and funny. His nickname basically
Speaker 3: meant like funny.
Speaker 2: Man in town. And this had started to change, like
Speaker 2: friends noticed like a couple of years before you know,
Speaker 2: twenty ten, when he's in hits his mid twenties and
Speaker 2: starts getting into his late twenties that he's like, it
Speaker 2: is impossible to get by as a young man. There
Speaker 2: are no jobs for us, there's no future. I don't
Speaker 2: feel at all like I have no nothing to be
Speaker 2: hopeful for. Right. I think a lot of people can
Speaker 2: understand empathized with where he was coming from. So he
Speaker 2: goes out to self fruit and this municipal inspector fight
Speaker 2: a Humdi sees him, realizes he doesn't have a permit
Speaker 2: and takes his shit right, and there are accounts that
Speaker 2: he like hits him too, basically is like what the
Speaker 2: fuck is wrong with you? You're not paying your god
Speaker 2: damn bribe and like smacks him around. So this is
Speaker 2: kind of the breaking point for Easy. He goes to
Speaker 2: the police stationed because he's got like this scale that
Speaker 2: he's using to weigh out fruit and stuff that he
Speaker 2: wants to get back it had been confiscated. He like
Speaker 2: can't work without it, and they tell him like, fuck you,
Speaker 2: you're not getting shit back. So he says, like, I
Speaker 2: want to meet with the governor and like plead my
Speaker 2: case to the guy in charge, and they're like, fuck you,
Speaker 2: the governor doesn't want to see you. So at about
Speaker 2: eleven thirty am. He takes his cart outside of the
Speaker 2: governor's office. He pours I think lighter fluid something flammable
Speaker 2: over his head and he lights himself on fire. His
Speaker 2: cousin gets a call. Ali was easy gets a call
Speaker 2: I guess from someone who was nearby and knew them
Speaker 2: both and was like, Mohammad just lit himself on fire
Speaker 2: in front of the governor's office, and Ali runs there,
Speaker 2: sprints over to the governor's office with his smartphone and
Speaker 2: he gets there in time to record his cousin's body
Speaker 2: being taken into an ambulance. Protests start up after this,
Speaker 2: almost immediately people take to the street. I think it's
Speaker 2: just everyone is living under the same regime. They're living
Speaker 2: under all of these like fucking corrupt ass officials. Everyone
Speaker 2: pieces together this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's also it's worth mentioning this is also
Speaker 3: a period of massive increases food prices, yes, which are
Speaker 3: one of the big Like you if you want, if
Speaker 3: you want your protest to work, like spark plus rising
Speaker 3: food prices, great way to get it to happen.
Speaker 2: Yes, so you know the spark catches fire, Protests start
Speaker 2: up and they do not calm down. Part of why
Speaker 2: they don't calm down. Is alizz Easy stays out in
Speaker 2: the street. He uploads footage of his cousin's body to Facebook,
Speaker 2: and he takes footage of the protests too, and he
Speaker 2: just starts sending shit to Al Jazeera. Right, So this this,
Speaker 2: all of this footage he's taking like winds up on
Speaker 2: television that evening, and by the next day other cities
Speaker 2: in Tunisia are are holding protests. And this is the
Speaker 2: kind of thing where it's like, you know, we all
Speaker 2: saw this, you know, obviously with a different cause in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. Sometimes something happens that's so horrible that the
Speaker 2: whole country takes to the streets. And that's what happens
Speaker 2: in Tunisia. So the president at the time, basically a dictator,
Speaker 2: Zeen l Abadin beIN Ali, does the normal dictator thing.
Speaker 2: He sends out and non dictators, right, we do it
Speaker 2: here too. Yeah, he sends the cops out to beat
Speaker 2: the shit out of everybody. Right, But he's also he's
Speaker 2: you talked in when we were talking about Vietnam about
Speaker 2: like the playbook and they didn't quite have it down.
Speaker 2: Part of the playbook is down because in addition to
Speaker 2: sending the cops out to beat the shit out of people.
Speaker 2: He visits Wazizi in the hospital because he lingers for
Speaker 2: a while, right, And he also has the officer the
Speaker 2: guy who slapped Wasizi arrested. You know, he's kind of
Speaker 2: desperately trying like maybe this will call him everybody down.
Speaker 2: It does not, was eas He dies in the hospital
Speaker 2: a couple of days later, and the protests, which are
Speaker 2: known now as the Jasmine Revolution. It takes about a month,
Speaker 2: but they force ben Ali to flee the country for
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia and you know, successfully bring an end to
Speaker 2: his regime and the return of a democratic system. There
Speaker 2: are functional elections for a while in Tunisia. They gain
Speaker 2: a significant amount of like political freedom, Like there are
Speaker 2: some really significant inroads made in terms of like civil
Speaker 2: rights during this period immediately after the Jasmine Revolution. But
Speaker 2: things also don't get better, at least not enough.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: This is generally seen Tunisia as the start of the
Speaker 2: Arab Spring, and if you know anything about the rest
Speaker 2: of the Arab Spring, this was also seen as like
Speaker 2: kind of the successful case, right, Like shit didn't work
Speaker 2: out very well in Syria or in Egypt, but like, yeah,
Speaker 2: bah Rain. But here they got rid of the dictator
Speaker 2: and they gained a lot of civil rights, and that's great.
Speaker 2: The problem is that the other issues, the high food prices,
Speaker 2: the fact that unemployment is at a night maarish level,
Speaker 2: the fact that corruption was a hideous problem in Tunisia.
Speaker 2: This doesn't just go away, right, because it's deeper than
Speaker 2: the dictator. The culture. Whenever you have a culture of
Speaker 2: corruption like this, which is by the way, it's not
Speaker 2: just the Middle East that has to deal with this,
Speaker 2: but if you've spent time in the Middle East, one
Speaker 2: of the things that is really depressing is how massive
Speaker 2: and absolutely different, by the way, from the kind of
Speaker 2: corruption that we have in the West, it is over there.
Speaker 2: The degree to which and you start to care about
Speaker 2: this not because you're getting fucked over as a tourist,
Speaker 2: because you really don't notice it much as a tourist.
Speaker 2: It's when you make friends in that country and you
Speaker 2: talk to them about, like, how many different people are
Speaker 2: constantly taking a little bit from them, right, and often
Speaker 2: not a little bit, like the degree to which regular
Speaker 2: people suffer because every single person who is quote unquote
Speaker 2: a government official is just soliciting for bribes is that's
Speaker 2: so much deeper than any one guy in charge. Right,
Speaker 2: That's something you can't just revolt your way out of him. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like one of my professors in college, I don't know
Speaker 3: if you have actually wrote about it, but he's okay,
Speaker 3: long story, but he lived in Egypt for a long
Speaker 3: time and one of the things he would talk about is,
Speaker 3: like that is the concept of like the oddly powerful bureaucrat.
Speaker 3: So like the history was like like the the the
Speaker 3: guy who sells you tickets at like the train station
Speaker 3: in Cairo, Like that guy, if you don't fucking pay him,
Speaker 3: he can just say no and you can't get on
Speaker 3: a train. And there's just like so many layers of
Speaker 3: like this guy who controls this specific thing and thus
Speaker 3: can fuck you over unless you like do what he
Speaker 3: tells you, which is usually give money. Unfortunately, we need
Speaker 3: to go to ads. We'll be back in a second,
Speaker 3: and we're back.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's part of why it's more durable is
Speaker 2: it's not like you know, I think it's South Vietnam.
Speaker 2: You know, when when DM was around, you had a
Speaker 2: lot of you have all this corruption, but a lot
Speaker 2: of it is top down. It is people who are
Speaker 2: loyal to the president. Right, A lot of the corruption
Speaker 2: in places like this is bottom up in that it's
Speaker 2: not a situation where all of these men who are
Speaker 2: so loyal to the dictator have this corrupt position. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's part of it. I'm not saying that it's not,
Speaker 2: but a lot of it is that, like, well, maybe
Speaker 2: it's technically my job to stop the guy who works
Speaker 2: at the train station from denying people entrey if they
Speaker 2: don't bribe him. But if I do that, then maybe
Speaker 2: he's gonna make a fuss about how I'm doing the
Speaker 2: same thing for like permits to fix your roof or whatever. Right, Like,
Speaker 2: it's so much more bottom up in a lot of way.
Speaker 2: And so the reason this matters is that like, shit
Speaker 2: doesn't really get better in Tunisia, right, And now that
Speaker 2: the so while all these problems continue, corruption continues to
Speaker 2: be an issue, high food prices continue to be an issue.
Speaker 2: Unemployment continued to be an issue, particularly for young men.
Speaker 2: Another thing that's changed is that now everyone has seen
Speaker 2: what what's Easy does has done. And like, obviously he
Speaker 2: dies horribly, but one thing that happens is like his
Speaker 2: family moves to Canada, right, Like they and this is
Speaker 2: I don't think fair to his family. I haven't seen
Speaker 2: evidence they were like corrupt or whatever, but like I
Speaker 2: think because of how like because they're able to like
Speaker 2: get out of this situation, it's seen as like, well,
Speaker 2: maybe if I do this, not only will that hurt
Speaker 2: whoever whatever, corrupt motherfucker you know, I'm angry at but
Speaker 2: maybe shit will work out for my family.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: This is often not what actually happens, but there have
Speaker 2: been hundreds of self immolation cases in the last ten
Speaker 2: years in Tunisia. It has become you might compare it
Speaker 2: to kind of mass shootings in the United States. Not
Speaker 2: obviously on a moral level, you're not doing nearly the
Speaker 2: same thing. You're not hurting anyone else, but in terms
Speaker 2: of the fact that it is this really really shocking
Speaker 2: event that then becomes kind of routine because people pick
Speaker 2: up on it as like, well, this is what you
Speaker 2: do in this situation, you know. One of the articles
Speaker 2: that I read for this was an AP News piece
Speaker 2: that interviews a guy named Hasni Kaleia, who's one of
Speaker 2: the dudes, one of the many Tunisians who have attempted
Speaker 2: or succeeded in killing themselves through self emolation as an
Speaker 2: active protest. Hasney survived, right, and he did not survive
Speaker 2: without serious injury. Right now, he has to he covers
Speaker 2: his face at all times. His left hand he's lost
Speaker 2: a bunch of fingers. His right hand has no fingers
Speaker 2: at all anymore. He is just grievously injured as a
Speaker 2: result of this. And he said, when interviewed by the
Speaker 2: AP quote, I would never describe the act of self
Speaker 2: emolation as an act of courage, because even the bravest
Speaker 2: person in the world couldn't do it. When I poured
Speaker 2: the petrol over my head, I wasn't really conscious about
Speaker 2: what I was doing. Then I saw a flash, I
Speaker 2: felt my skin start to burn, and I fell down.
Speaker 2: I woke up eight months later in the hospital. And
Speaker 2: I found that really interesting, because there's a lot of
Speaker 2: talk right now, you know, with what Aaron Bushnell did
Speaker 2: about like principle and courage or mental illness or whatever,
Speaker 2: and like to what do we credit something that is
Speaker 2: so incomprehensible to most people. And I found what Hawsny
Speaker 2: says here really interesting because what he's saying is that
Speaker 2: like you can't even call it courage, you know, it's
Speaker 2: almost like someone else's doing it. You were animated by
Speaker 2: such rage and home hopelessness that it's almost like someone
Speaker 2: else is in control of your body. And I don't
Speaker 2: that doesn't sound like mental illness to me for certain.
Speaker 2: That sounds like someone that sounds like desperation of such
Speaker 2: an extent that it's mind altering. I don't know any
Speaker 2: other way to describe it than that. And I'm not
Speaker 2: saying this is what goes through everybody's head when they
Speaker 2: sell f emlight. But you don't get a lot of
Speaker 2: interviews with those people after the fact, right Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, like like there's the people who survive into Batan,
Speaker 3: and it's like, well, those guys, the Chinese government will
Speaker 3: not let anyone near them, right, Like, no, you know,
Speaker 3: and like I guess I should also I should mention
Speaker 3: this about the Chinese government line on this is that
Speaker 3: it's very similar to what you see in the American
Speaker 3: presss like the well, no, you're seeing the terrorist stuff
Speaker 3: too here. But like the Chinese government line, and this
Speaker 3: line worked pretty well, is like these people were mentally ill,
Speaker 3: these people are terrorists or they were like misled by
Speaker 3: like the Dalai Lamo who's like leading his people to
Speaker 3: the flames. Yeah, and that's been kind of the that's
Speaker 3: been kind of the playbook everywhere for this. That like
Speaker 3: the one, the one that kind of works is that one.
Speaker 3: It's it's you have to attack the moral character of
Speaker 3: the person because it's such an it's such an.
Speaker 2: Act of it's an inherently selfless selfless Yeah, it's the
Speaker 2: only way to do it. He can't describe it anywhere else.
Speaker 2: They're lighting themselves on fire.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so and so they like, you know, the
Speaker 3: it's it's it's the the Roger Stone rat fucking thing
Speaker 3: of attack them where they're strong, and you know, so
Speaker 3: it's the attack on the moral character that like happens.
Speaker 3: I think the thing with Tunisia too is it's like,
Speaker 3: like the political alternative to this is this like rabid
Speaker 3: anti immigrant politics.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're like we'll talk about that in a second,
Speaker 2: but yeah, it doesn't end well. One thing I do
Speaker 2: want to hit on is the degree to which, again
Speaker 2: this kind of does function in Tunisia as like a
Speaker 2: mametic virus. Hawsny, the guy we heard from, survives, but
Speaker 2: his brother shortly thereafter lights himself on fire in an
Speaker 2: act of protest and kills himself and his mother attempts
Speaker 2: to do the same, right like three members of the
Speaker 2: family all carrying out self immolation, and it is one
Speaker 2: of those things. This is listed as like an example
Speaker 2: of the tactic succeeding, and it does in terms of it,
Speaker 2: it gets the regime out of power. But things are
Speaker 2: not better in Tunisia, especially since so you know, there
Speaker 2: is a period of time where there is at least
Speaker 2: a functioning democracy and significant gains for civil rights, but
Speaker 2: because food still doesn't get affordable, there aren't jobs. A
Speaker 2: lot You'll find a lot of articles from around twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: especially where people are like, yeah, I guess freedom's nice,
Speaker 2: but it's not really worth much if you're starving, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: which you know I anyway, all of this leads in
Speaker 2: part to the coming to power of the guy who
Speaker 2: is currently leading Tunisia, Kiss sayed. And as you noted, Mia,
Speaker 2: you know this guy is a populist. He is elected
Speaker 2: with seventy two percent of the vote. He frames himself
Speaker 2: like populist. Him to do is like I am you know,
Speaker 2: I'm outside the system. I'm gonna help you take on
Speaker 2: the elite that have corruptly ruled our country, and he
Speaker 2: also is very anti migrant right Tunisia. A lot of
Speaker 2: people who migrate into Europe do so through Tunisia just
Speaker 2: for geographical reasons, and he is blaming a lot of
Speaker 2: their problems on He does like great replacement shit that
Speaker 2: all these black migrants are causing our country's problems. He
Speaker 2: inspires a wave of violence against black people in Tunisia
Speaker 2: that's pretty hideous and horrific. And he has gained a
Speaker 2: significant amount of backing from particularly the Italian government, I
Speaker 2: think also the French government, because he's cracking down on migrants, right,
Speaker 2: and those migrants come to Italy and France and that's
Speaker 2: a problem for those governments. So they're supporting this guy, who,
Speaker 2: by the way, has turned himself into a dictator. All
Speaker 2: those gains Tunisia had in the wake of the Arab Spring,
Speaker 2: he has rolled back. He has centralized power, he has
Speaker 2: more or less destroyed the judiciary is something that's independent,
Speaker 2: you know, he is if he's not a dictator, he's
Speaker 2: not all that far from it, you know. And he's
Speaker 2: being supported by the these quote unquote democratic nations because well,
Speaker 2: I mean because racism, right, Yeah, same reason they support
Speaker 2: a Gadaffi, Like, yeah, when it comes to the politicians,
Speaker 2: it's a mixture of racism and just like well, racism
Speaker 2: wins votes, and when it comes to like why racism
Speaker 2: win votes, it's back to racism, right anyway, So those
Speaker 2: are that's Tunisia more or less.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, we need to go to ads. We'll be back
Speaker 3: in a second, and we're back. Yeah, So well let's
Speaker 3: end on a slightly more positive note where well, so
Speaker 3: the line I was gonna give was one about how
Speaker 3: like you know, I mean, this is the thing with Tunisia, right,
Speaker 3: is like you have this like Chenizia has effectively structural
Speaker 3: unemployment rates of like thirty forty percent. Right, Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: it's and that's that's the thing that that's the thing
Speaker 3: that can't be solved without changing the economic system.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: If you you know, if you you can have your
Speaker 3: political revolution without your social revolution, you'll be right back
Speaker 3: to where you were in like ten years. The problem though,
Speaker 3: the other thing is you can have your social revolution
Speaker 3: and also end up in the same place, which is
Speaker 3: where we're going with with China. Where so one of
Speaker 3: the there's a very famous Okay, I guess the place
Speaker 3: we should start with this is that one of the
Speaker 3: I've talked about this a bit on this show. One
Speaker 3: of the ways that labor works in China like structurally
Speaker 3: is that so you're a contractor, you work for a
Speaker 3: contracting company. The contracting company is this like series of
Speaker 3: shell companies, and there's like a there's like there's a
Speaker 3: payday on like New Years because that's when the like
Speaker 3: the financial like the year sort of rolls over and
Speaker 3: that's when you get paid. And so these companies are
Speaker 3: designed to specifically go out of business like the day
Speaker 3: before New Year, so they don't have to pay any
Speaker 3: of the workers for the work that they've done. And
Speaker 3: this leads to a rash of protests in China, like
Speaker 3: every single year on New Year's Day, there's like this
Speaker 3: massive there's a protests like fucking everywhere because people have
Speaker 3: been screwed. It happens a lot with construction companies, and
Speaker 3: so there's a very like one of the very common
Speaker 3: tactics you see is people like standing on top of
Speaker 3: buildings holding banners saying like we're going to jump unless
Speaker 3: you guys like pay us. And so that that's kind
Speaker 3: of the background of this, which is that that's like,
Speaker 3: that's a fairly common kind of like workers protest. In
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, there's a delivery driver in Jongsu who
Speaker 3: he so something something I didn't really talk about the
Speaker 3: ten episodes is that Chinese economy is increasingly becoming a
Speaker 3: gig economy and this has been this has been happening
Speaker 3: for a while now. And so this guy is a
Speaker 3: delivery driver for Ali Baba and he's like, he's like
Speaker 3: trying to change apps, and the app garnishes his wages
Speaker 3: and steals seven hundred dollars from him, and that's an
Speaker 3: enormous amount of money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the app garnished his wages. As a sentence,
Speaker 2: that just makes me want to light something on fire.
Speaker 2: So I get why this would spark protests.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And he like tries to get it back and
Speaker 3: they don't give it to him, and he like and
Speaker 3: he lights himself on fire, and this turns into so
Speaker 3: he lets self on fire and then like this this
Speaker 3: is this is in twenty twenty one. This is the
Speaker 3: same year where that Temu employee falls over dead, like
Speaker 3: like dies in your bed from over work, and also
Speaker 3: the same year when when a Temo employee jumps off
Speaker 3: of the building because of over work. And this sets
Speaker 3: off like a giant kind of shift in in the
Speaker 3: way that the Chinese public is thinking about labor, because
Speaker 3: up until this one, people have been you know, like China.
Speaker 3: It's it's not it's nowhere near as bad as a Nia,
Speaker 3: but it also has this problem of like everyone works
Speaker 3: harder and harder. You're working, You're working nine ninety six, right,
Speaker 3: You're working nine am nine pm, six days a week,
Speaker 3: and you're like, you're working more and more and more
Speaker 3: hours and you're not getting ahead, right, You're still stuck
Speaker 3: in your shitty apartment and your app isn't paying you
Speaker 3: for the work you did. And this leads to a
Speaker 3: whole like a whole thing that sort of culminates in
Speaker 3: in something I talked about a bit in the time
Speaker 3: of episodes, which is the Chinese Supreme Court, Like the
Speaker 3: Chinese Constitution says you're not supposed to be able to
Speaker 3: work people for longer, for like thirty five hours, unless
Speaker 3: like special circumstances, and the Chinese Supreme Court goes like, well, obviously,
Speaker 3: you're not allowed to work people like twelve out like
Speaker 3: twelve hours a day, six days a week, and that
Speaker 3: isn't like in large part and partially it's because of
Speaker 3: the the Temu suicide and the Temu thing. But the
Speaker 3: other huge contributing factor to this, and another huge thing
Speaker 3: contributing to Chinese society attempting to reckon kind of with
Speaker 3: their unbelievable overwork culture is is the self immolation. And
Speaker 3: it's it's it's one, and it goes viral so fast
Speaker 3: that there's no way to sort of like cover it up.
Speaker 3: There's it's it's you can't. The Chinese government can't really
Speaker 3: just press the racism button like they normally would, because
Speaker 3: this isn't someone into back and someone in changeohn they
Speaker 3: can't really do that, and so they kind of are.
Speaker 3: They're forced to make at least like some kind of
Speaker 3: change because it pisss off so many people in ways
Speaker 3: that like can't really be contained. So you know, I
Speaker 3: guess the lesson from that, if there is one, is
Speaker 3: sometimes very rarely you can back a government into a
Speaker 3: corner where the normal things that they would say about it,
Speaker 3: or like the normal like mental illness, terrorists, deluded things
Speaker 3: don't work because the raw simplicity of what they did
Speaker 3: and why just breaks through the media sphere thing, and it's.
Speaker 2: Again very hard to predict obviously, Like this isn't the
Speaker 2: first within the last twelve months. This isn't the first
Speaker 2: self emolation of the United States, right, and the last
Speaker 2: self emolation attacked or not attacks? Sorry I should jeez,
Speaker 2: do I have a media rain or what? Well? The
Speaker 2: last self immolation that we had, which I believe was
Speaker 2: was over climate change.
Speaker 3: Oh there, there there was a Palestine one too.
Speaker 2: Oh there was a past So I guess we've had
Speaker 2: a couple like two in the last or three now,
Speaker 2: I guess in the last like twelve months or so,
Speaker 2: But they didn't the other ones did not really move
Speaker 2: the needle. Yeah, right, why Aaron do I mean? I
Speaker 2: think I think part of it might have to do
Speaker 2: with with how deliberate it was and how you know,
Speaker 2: it got was very quickly picked up by local media
Speaker 2: and the national media. I don't know that's that's really
Speaker 2: outside the scope of these episodes, but I hope you
Speaker 2: at least now have more of a grounding and like
Speaker 2: how this has gone other times, people have used this
Speaker 2: as a method of protest, and hopefully that's of use
Speaker 2: to you anyway. Have a good day, Bye.
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