Speaker 1: Hi. This is Milan Ververe and this is Kim Azarelli.
Speaker 1: We are co authors of the book Fast Forward, How
Speaker 1: Women Can Achieve Power and Purpose. And you're listening to
Speaker 1: Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you
Speaker 1: by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: I was the first woman chosen to be a justice
Speaker 1: on the United States Supreme Court. It took a hundred
Speaker 1: and ninety one years for that to happen from the
Speaker 1: start of our effective constitution. That's a long time to wait,
Speaker 1: but thank goodness, the barrier was broken and a very
Speaker 1: great honor. But it was quite a responsibility because if
Speaker 1: I didn't do the job well enough, it might take
Speaker 1: more about a hundred and ninety one years to get
Speaker 1: the next woman on the Court. Welcome to Seneca Women
Speaker 1: Conversations on Power and Purpose. I'm Kim Azarelli and we
Speaker 1: just heard audio from the incredible Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
Speaker 1: Justice O'Connor is so important to me for so many reasons.
Speaker 1: She has been an incredible inspiration for so many women
Speaker 1: in the law and for me personally. She was really
Speaker 1: instrumental in helping me with a center for women in
Speaker 1: Justice at Cornell. Of course, she was the first woman
Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court. She had an incredible legal career
Speaker 1: at a time when few women did, and she forever
Speaker 1: carries this legacy, and she carries it so well. But
Speaker 1: now all that to say that Justice O'Connor considers one
Speaker 1: of her greatest legacies the invention of a video game.
Speaker 1: So joining me today is executive director of is Civics,
Speaker 1: Louise Dubai. Welcome, Louise Kim. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1: Thank you for me. So let me start with a
Speaker 1: very basic question. What is isibics. Isidics is the largest
Speaker 1: civic education site in the country. We teach students all
Speaker 1: the way from fourth grade to twelfth grade about how
Speaker 1: our government works. So what we do. Primarily we are
Speaker 1: known for our games. We have twenty games in which
Speaker 1: students can play and either win or lose. And all
Speaker 1: the games are around some principles of our constitution. Is
Speaker 1: the judiciary, for example, or um our electional system, or
Speaker 1: the presidency or so on and so forth. Why are
Speaker 1: the games so captivating and what do they do? The
Speaker 1: games essentially replicate the way that our government works in
Speaker 1: a way that you couldn't do in the classroom without them.
Speaker 1: So kids usually work together on a game. They range
Speaker 1: from running your own election to being the president of
Speaker 1: the United States, so all uh different kinds of processes
Speaker 1: that may seem really foreign to students, but actually when
Speaker 1: you put them in the center of that process, it
Speaker 1: actually starts to take on a meeting. Do you also
Speaker 1: learn about civic discourse and how to have positive conversations
Speaker 1: because we're living in this world which where politics can
Speaker 1: become so divisive, and so I think this tool that
Speaker 1: you have a civics is a powerful way to teach
Speaker 1: bridge building and compromise. How does that work? So the
Speaker 1: game is is uh an experience. Uh it's enjoyable and
Speaker 1: you'll learn a lot of skills, but the beauty is
Speaker 1: in managing a conversation after with the students. So a
Speaker 1: lot of issues get talked about in the game. The
Speaker 1: students will talk about those issues, and they will be
Speaker 1: talking about things that happen in the real world, and
Speaker 1: they will bring in these controversial issues. And so that
Speaker 1: process of coming to understand how somebody else another students
Speaker 1: thinks a different way very important. And so obviously we're
Speaker 1: in the beginning of a big, big election year. So
Speaker 1: what is ISIFICS doing this year? In particular, we've come
Speaker 1: out with a brand new win the White House. It
Speaker 1: is in Spanish now. Uh, the influence of Justice Sono Mayora,
Speaker 1: who is now on our board, and the Justice really
Speaker 1: wanted us to make a commitment to say that all
Speaker 1: students need to have access to this information. It is
Speaker 1: has a whole new set of issues. Issues have been
Speaker 1: reviewed by a bipartisan panel of experts and so that
Speaker 1: we can ensure balance and by partsanship in the way
Speaker 1: we present the issues. We have also come out with
Speaker 1: a whole new game, revised Cast Your Vote Now. It
Speaker 1: has a whole story about a mayoral election and what
Speaker 1: the process is that a citizen of our country should
Speaker 1: go to select a candidate. Uh. We're really really excited
Speaker 1: about all of the materials that we have for the
Speaker 1: election this year. I remember when I had first heard
Speaker 1: about is Civics. I was trying to put it all
Speaker 1: together and I asked Justice O'Connor, well, why a video game?
Speaker 1: And I remember her clearly saying that they had they
Speaker 1: had hosted an entire summit around civic participation and how
Speaker 1: she could after stepping down from the Supreme Court, continued
Speaker 1: to support our democracy in ways that she felt was meaningful.
Speaker 1: And at the end of sort of all these very
Speaker 1: influential folks coming together, they realized that what really needed
Speaker 1: to happen was kids need to understand the basics of
Speaker 1: civic participation. And what better way to reach them, she said,
Speaker 1: was to meet them where they were, which was in
Speaker 1: front of video games. And so this idea that you know,
Speaker 1: an eighty something year old retired Supreme Court justice would
Speaker 1: spend her post court years designing video games for me
Speaker 1: was unbelievable, and I very much remember the day that
Speaker 1: I went with her actually when she chaired the Games
Speaker 1: for Change conference in the Village in New York City.
Speaker 1: You know, so you have this incredible, you know, icon
Speaker 1: Supreme Court justice showing up to this kind of video
Speaker 1: game conference, UM, and it was powerful. I wanted to
Speaker 1: teach young poth in America how they can be part
Speaker 1: of the governmental structure and help decide what problems to
Speaker 1: tackle and how to solve them. And so I started
Speaker 1: this network of UM, the idea of for me in
Speaker 1: every state, an isivics program to teach young people UH
Speaker 1: the concept of being involved in helping government reach decisions
Speaker 1: and how to be involved how to make that happen
Speaker 1: was my effort and the schools are using it. We
Speaker 1: teach primarily by having games on there that young people play,
Speaker 1: and in the process they learn what we're hoping to
Speaker 1: have them learn, which is how to be a citizen
Speaker 1: who makes things happen. And it's been very successful. It's working,
Speaker 1: and she wanted it to reach all fifty states ultimately,
Speaker 1: and I know you've been working hard at that. How
Speaker 1: many states are you in now? All fifty states? And
Speaker 1: asking me that originally and then uh, we are now
Speaker 1: we look like a map of education system in America.
Speaker 1: We are overly represented in low income schools, Title one
Speaker 1: schools and in rural districts that don't have access to
Speaker 1: other forms of simulations, which has been proven to help
Speaker 1: students understand how our systems work better. So do you
Speaker 1: find that children are excited about learning about civics or
Speaker 1: is it a chore that you then convert them to
Speaker 1: be excited about? Oh? I think now, particularly now in
Speaker 1: the last a few years where current events is uh
Speaker 1: all over UH, there's an incredible interest in demand on
Speaker 1: the part of UM of teachers and students, and it
Speaker 1: is really framed around these current events and they're trying
Speaker 1: to understand how it works. The point is that it
Speaker 1: is now relevant to the students lives, and that is
Speaker 1: how you get students excited. They have to understand why
Speaker 1: this matters. I mean, there's never really been a moment
Speaker 1: in history, I would think where you have current events
Speaker 1: so infused in the daily life of children. Um, I
Speaker 1: think perhaps I Civics is even more important than ever
Speaker 1: for them to make sense of the world around them
Speaker 1: and what's going on. Absolutely, we need to make sure
Speaker 1: that young people are trained and understand how it works,
Speaker 1: and that we have a process, and then they can
Speaker 1: take it up only if we as adults take up
Speaker 1: our responsibility to teach them and to prepare them for
Speaker 1: a civic engagement. I recall when Justice O'Connor first told
Speaker 1: me about this, and when I first learned about IS
Speaker 1: Civics back in two thousand and nine. She had said
Speaker 1: that she was dismayed that children could name all of
Speaker 1: the judges on American IDOL but could not name the
Speaker 1: justices on the Supreme Court, and that civic education really
Speaker 1: just understanding the three branches of government was not something
Speaker 1: that was required anymore. Can you tell us about the
Speaker 1: state of civic education in this country. What's happened is
Speaker 1: that over decades, during the common Core era, where we
Speaker 1: focus on basic literacy UH in math and language, we've
Speaker 1: seen a decrease in social studies and the time allocated
Speaker 1: in the classroom. And in an era of accountability, when
Speaker 1: there's very little accountability for social studies, civics and social
Speaker 1: studies have been UH put to the wayside. What's at risk?
Speaker 1: Why does this matter? A couple of things. UH. One
Speaker 1: is that the situation is now so bleak that our
Speaker 1: students are proficient only about twenty three. What is important
Speaker 1: is for students to know how to solve problems for
Speaker 1: our country. They have to actually understand how it works.
Speaker 1: They have to have the skills to be able to participates.
Speaker 1: They have to have the disposition to agree to disagree
Speaker 1: or define compromise, and then they have to be motivated
Speaker 1: for service. We need to teach young people that they're
Speaker 1: going to grow up and be in charge. They're going
Speaker 1: to be making these decisions as adults in what we
Speaker 1: do as a nation. What we do is the city.
Speaker 1: What we do as a county. They are going to
Speaker 1: be doing that, and you have to learn how to
Speaker 1: be involved and what works and what doesn't work, and
Speaker 1: get them interested as youngsters. They'll follow up as adults.
Speaker 1: So I want to go back to what life was
Speaker 1: like for you with Justice O'Connor. So she wrote it
Speaker 1: not bed in the Wall Street Journal into fifteen, where
Speaker 1: she says, civic education cannot be an afterthought. Citizenship is
Speaker 1: a skill that must be taught over time, with the
Speaker 1: same devotion we give to reading math in the pursuit
Speaker 1: of scientific knowledge. We believe that it should be taught
Speaker 1: alongside and integrated with these subjects. So for our listeners,
Speaker 1: can you describe her passion for civics. Oh, it had
Speaker 1: knew no bounds. Um, the devotion that she had to
Speaker 1: service to our country. That's where it comes from, right,
Speaker 1: this idea that you must be of service, you must
Speaker 1: help make things better, that is all for a purpose.
Speaker 1: And that purpose was really this idea that you could
Speaker 1: advance this country by get being of service. If you
Speaker 1: came into this with that mentality, you would get more done.
Speaker 1: And I do think that that is what she was
Speaker 1: trying to convey to our students. In our country, this
Speaker 1: idea of balance, this idea of compromise, and this idea
Speaker 1: of purpose beyond yourself enough service. So Justice O'Connor was
Speaker 1: devoted to that idea and and that is the legacy
Speaker 1: we try to fulfill every day. You also have another
Speaker 1: personal connection with women. Judges tell us about your mom.
Speaker 1: My mother was the second woman on the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: of Canada, and I felt, and I've continued to feel,
Speaker 1: I have an obligation to serve those women and uh
Speaker 1: to pay back what they've done for us. It people
Speaker 1: often do not understand the level of sacrifice that that
Speaker 1: has meant. None of them speak about the personal sacrifice
Speaker 1: that it took. And I think we have to recognize
Speaker 1: that there is a legacy and that we have to
Speaker 1: celebrate our forebears so true, they broke so many bearers
Speaker 1: for women, and we really have to celebrate that the
Speaker 1: United States has taken great strides in opening opportunities and
Speaker 1: doors for women. And it, of course is my hope
Speaker 1: that the same thing is happening in every nation around
Speaker 1: the world. It is and has in many nations already,
Speaker 1: and on others it's been a little slower to come,
Speaker 1: but over time, I think we can expect every nation
Speaker 1: to welcome working women and women in all fields of endeavor.
Speaker 1: It's very important that we do that. After all, about
Speaker 1: half the population happened to be mail, so we need
Speaker 1: to take care of that half too, don't we. Well, Louise,
Speaker 1: in two thousand and fifteen, you and I had the
Speaker 1: chance to sort of, I feel, be part of witnessing
Speaker 1: history in some way, and we came together to pay
Speaker 1: tribute to Justice O'Connor and really the legacy of O'Connor.
Speaker 1: But a big emphasis that day was on a civics
Speaker 1: and really what that legacy could look like, uh, for
Speaker 1: children and for our future Americans. But what was amazing
Speaker 1: to me was to see all four women who had
Speaker 1: sat on the Supreme Court come together, which they very
Speaker 1: rarely do, to really pay tribute to this incredible woman's life.
Speaker 1: So for me, it was really an inspiring moment. The
Speaker 1: fact that they were willing to take time and be
Speaker 1: with us for so long. Uh, it really speaks to
Speaker 1: how much Justice O'Connor inspired each one of them. It
Speaker 1: was such a special day, and really, like you say,
Speaker 1: this is a moment in history, it's a this idea
Speaker 1: which I think is one that you have a personal
Speaker 1: connection to, but that women inspire other women. Uh and
Speaker 1: that we owe women pay forward, as you say, was
Speaker 1: in display in that day. It was amazing to see
Speaker 1: Justice Ginsburg represent uh and and and that's how it
Speaker 1: was presented to us that she would be representing um
Speaker 1: the ideas of both the justice side Mayor and Justice
Speaker 1: Kagan Um. And when she took the podium, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously there was just complete stillness in the room to
Speaker 1: see her go up there and pay such a heartfelt
Speaker 1: tribute to Justice O'Connor. But the relationship between the women
Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court was in full display that day,
Speaker 1: and I just get goose bumps just thinking about it.
Speaker 1: And that connection is kind of the fundamental base on
Speaker 1: which we all sort of stand and for women in
Speaker 1: the law, it was a resounding site and something I
Speaker 1: probably won't forget. I think what was great about that
Speaker 1: event is both the focus on her early year, the
Speaker 1: focus of her legal career, and then the focus after
Speaker 1: in the through line, And that through line was about service,
Speaker 1: and that through line was about connections and when women
Speaker 1: helping each other and all of that came together, and
Speaker 1: I would only hope that young girls would would find
Speaker 1: a message for them in that story of how your
Speaker 1: own personal experience connects to your own work, but also
Speaker 1: to that purpose that's beyond you. I think that's what
Speaker 1: gives meaning to a life. And certainly Justice O'Connor has
Speaker 1: a beautiful life and a beautiful legacy as a result.
Speaker 1: And isaetics is really the embodiment of that. Well, that
Speaker 1: to me really summarizes Justice O'Connor. And the level of
Speaker 1: service that she wanted to devote her life too was
Speaker 1: pretty remarkable. And I guess it was somewhat recently that
Speaker 1: she decided to go public with the fact that she
Speaker 1: had developed dementia, possibly Alzheimer's, And I found that such
Speaker 1: a beautiful and so Justice O'Connor thing to do. Right,
Speaker 1: she takes her platform and even in that hardest moment
Speaker 1: um where most people would want to retreat, she comes
Speaker 1: forward and uses, you know, her own illness as service
Speaker 1: to the country and to put a spotlight on what's
Speaker 1: going on. And it's just to me so profound and
Speaker 1: just so totally in line with who she is. To
Speaker 1: her core, everything about her is about service. So I
Speaker 1: think that's incredible. Yeah, And and I think it speaks
Speaker 1: a little bit to that generation of women and the
Speaker 1: fact that they are always striving to do more because
Speaker 1: that's what it took to get to where they went. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I found that with just As O'Connor also same idea, Louise,
Speaker 1: how can we do more? How can we get more kids?
Speaker 1: How could we touch every single student in the country.
Speaker 1: And we know that just O'Connor is not afraid of
Speaker 1: hard work, but there was something different about the kind
Speaker 1: of just do more, to do more that we see
Speaker 1: in today's world. I feel like they are instilled with
Speaker 1: something different. Um And obviously is Civics is the incredible
Speaker 1: testament to that. So tell our listeners what we can
Speaker 1: do to better support is civics. Is civics is a
Speaker 1: completely free platform and we serve million millions of students. Obviously, Uh,
Speaker 1: what we need we need financial support and that is
Speaker 1: very important. If you care about our democracy and the
Speaker 1: health and an investment in generation after generation, please go
Speaker 1: to is civics dot org and help us out. And
Speaker 1: whether you're an individual who wants to make you know,
Speaker 1: a small contribution, every contribution counts, or whether you're an
Speaker 1: organization that wants to bring your company or your foundation
Speaker 1: to partner with is civics. Please do reach out and
Speaker 1: you can go to a civics dot org or you
Speaker 1: can come to us at senec women dot com and
Speaker 1: we'll be happy to introduce you to Louise. Thank you, Louise,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Kim. I hope that is civics
Speaker 1: will be a standard part of the education program for
Speaker 1: young people in all fifty states. It's so effective and
Speaker 1: it matters because what works on is teaching young people
Speaker 1: how they can be in charge of what they're going
Speaker 1: to learn about it and they can help make it effective.
Speaker 1: And so there couldn't be anything that we care more
Speaker 1: about than educating our young people. Stay tuned for our
Speaker 1: takeaways after this break. I hope you enjoyed that conversation
Speaker 1: with Louise Dubai and it is always so incredible to
Speaker 1: hear the voice of Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. For more
Speaker 1: information about is civics, visit is civics dot org. My
Speaker 1: top takeaways. First, as Justice O'Connor reminds us, civic participation
Speaker 1: is more important than ever and it starts with young
Speaker 1: people teaching children about civic discourse and how to have
Speaker 1: positive conversations sets up the next generation with the tools
Speaker 1: they need to succeed. Second, Justice O'Connor's life reminds us
Speaker 1: of the power of being first. As the first woman
Speaker 1: on the U. S. Supreme Court, Justice O'Connor broke barriers
Speaker 1: for women in the law, for women in the judiciary,
Speaker 1: and frankly, for women around the world. Lastly, Justice O'Connor
Speaker 1: is an incredible example of using your power for purpose.
Speaker 1: Her impact extends well beyond the law, across boundaries and generations,
Speaker 1: as is evidenced by is Civics for us at Seneca Women,
Speaker 1: Justice O'Connor is a beautiful, powerful example of living a
Speaker 1: life of service and purpose. You're listening to Seneca Women
Speaker 1: Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you by the
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Speaker 1: visit our website Seneca Women dot com, and check out
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Speaker 1: a great day, M