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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, your ghost

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Speaker 1: host Jonathan Strickland, an executive producer at iHeart Podcasts, And

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Speaker 1: how the tech are you? And as we creep ever

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Speaker 1: closer to that creepiest of days, Halloween, it's time for

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Speaker 1: another spooky episode of tech Stuff. Now. On Monday's episode,

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Speaker 1: I talked about how photography gave certain Charlatans a tool

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Speaker 1: to purposefully fool the grief stricken and the gullible into

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Speaker 1: believing they were sitting for photos with ghostly companions, when

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Speaker 1: in fact, those grieving people were really just victims of

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Speaker 1: photographic tricks like double exposures and superimposed negatives. Today, I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about a device that has no purpose

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Speaker 1: other than to supposedly detect the presence of ghosts. These

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Speaker 1: are called RM pods. Now. I made this joke on Monday,

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Speaker 1: but I'm gonna go ahead and make it again because

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Speaker 1: I was very sad to hear that RM pods are not,

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Speaker 1: in fact little relaxation capsules that you can just crawl

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Speaker 1: into and then listen to the band Ram sing about

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Speaker 1: shiny happy people and Andy Kaufman and such. Instead, rim

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Speaker 1: pods are devices that are meant to detect electromagnetic fluctuations,

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Speaker 1: which many in the paranormal biz believe indicates the presence

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Speaker 1: of other worldly spirits. Now I mentioned this in Monday's

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Speaker 1: episode as well, but once again, for the folks in

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Speaker 1: the back, that's not how science works. You don't go

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Speaker 1: hunting for effects and then invent causes for those effects.

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Speaker 1: That's the stuff of myth. It's like thinking back to

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Speaker 1: prehistoric days when humans wondered what the heck was causing thunder,

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Speaker 1: and the best they could come up with is that

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Speaker 1: some extremely powerful gods we're having a hissy fit of

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Speaker 1: one sort or another. It's akin to writing here, there

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Speaker 1: be dragons on a map, because you don't actually know

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Speaker 1: what is beyond a certain part of the map, and

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Speaker 1: so just to be on the safe side, you imagine

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Speaker 1: something really awful and maybe that way you don't actually

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Speaker 1: have to go out there and find out for sure. Now,

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Speaker 1: the proper way to go about this whole thing would

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Speaker 1: be to first find evidence of the existence of ghosts,

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Speaker 1: like something that shows that ghosts do in fact exist.

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Speaker 1: Then you observe these ghosts to figure out what the

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Speaker 1: heck they do, what are they capable of doing? You

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Speaker 1: don't look for weird phenomena and then say, well, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what caused this, so it must be ghosts.

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Speaker 1: I suppose paranormal investigators would argue that there's a long

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Speaker 1: history of associating ghosts with EMF fluctuations, But since ghosts

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Speaker 1: have never been proven to exist, let alone that they

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Speaker 1: can affect or manipulate electromagnetic fields, that doesn't really work

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Speaker 1: for me. You know, some people say, well, the living

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Speaker 1: can affect electromagnetic fields, so it stands to reason that

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Speaker 1: the spirits can as well, but that doesn't really track.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how long we've associated ghosts with EMF fluctuations,

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Speaker 1: it's never actually been proven to be a thing. So

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Speaker 1: if I just associate I don't know, the sensation of

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Speaker 1: an upset stomach with the color blue, it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: the color blue is causing my upset stomach, even if

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Speaker 1: I've associated it, like, until we've proven that the color

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Speaker 1: blue is doing it to me, it's just coincidence, And

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Speaker 1: in this case, it's coincidence between something that's real, that

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Speaker 1: is the fluctuations of electromagnetic fields, and something that has

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Speaker 1: not been established to be real, that is ghosts. But

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Speaker 1: now that we've got all that out of the way,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about ariods. And there hesitate to use this

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Speaker 1: word inventor Gary Galka. Now, first, Galka was highly motivated

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Speaker 1: to make devices that could potentially detect ghosts for a

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Speaker 1: real and tragic reason. And I don't want to downplay this.

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Speaker 1: This is horrible. Galka tragically lost his daughter, Melissa in

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Speaker 1: a car accident in September two thousand and four. She

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Speaker 1: was just seventeen years old, and I cannot even begin

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Speaker 1: to imagine the emotional and psychological impact that had both

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Speaker 1: on him and the rest of his family. He has

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Speaker 1: a wife and two other daughters, and that's just heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: Just a reminder, like the guiding principles for tech stuff

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Speaker 1: I've always said are critical thinking and compassion. I do

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Speaker 1: suggest we use critical thinking when we examine the work

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Speaker 1: and claims of Galka, but we also show compassion because

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Speaker 1: that's a horrible loss. But according to Galka, he and

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Speaker 1: his family were experiencing unusual phenomena over the days, weeks,

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Speaker 1: and months following Melissa's death. Now, Galka owns a business

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Speaker 1: called DAS Distribution, which designs high tech measurement systems such

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Speaker 1: as non contact measurement devices, and Galka builds sensors and

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Speaker 1: instruments that could be incorporated into other technologies for a

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Speaker 1: wide array of industries. So think about devices that are

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Speaker 1: meant to detect stuff like humidity within a controlled environment,

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Speaker 1: like if you've ever been in a museum where they've

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Speaker 1: had humidity sensors that kind of thing, or devices that

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Speaker 1: are designed to detect defects or malfunctions and equipment and

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Speaker 1: processes or devices that aid in the precise measurement when

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Speaker 1: working in fields that have no wiggle room for ambiguity,

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Speaker 1: where you absolutely have to get measurements down to the

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Speaker 1: most precise unit you can. That's the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: that Galica worked in and Galka turned this ingenuity toward

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Speaker 1: developing different gadgets in tended to aid the average ghost hunter.

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Speaker 1: These include things like spirit boxes, which I've talked about before.

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Speaker 1: Your typical spirit box is essentially a radio. It's a

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Speaker 1: receiver and it's cycling through radio frequencies typically pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: They can go slower, but the more modern ones that

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Speaker 1: get a little bit more traction these days go fast,

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Speaker 1: and the belief is that ghosts, through some means of

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Speaker 1: manipulating radio frequencies, can communicate through these kinds of devices.

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Speaker 1: But a gadget that has a lot of ghost hunting

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Speaker 1: types gravitating towards it over the last couple of decades

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Speaker 1: has been the mel meter, which is named after Galca's

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Speaker 1: daughter Melissa, and rim pods. So rim pods are kind

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Speaker 1: of a stripped down version of the mel meter, or

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Speaker 1: the mail meter is like an EMF meter that has

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Speaker 1: an rim pod built into it, at least the more

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Speaker 1: advanced mailmeters are. I'll talk about them later in the episode,

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Speaker 1: but let's start with the rm pods first and then

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Speaker 1: we'll get into what makes melmeter slightly different. So the

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Speaker 1: basic idea behind the rim pod is that it detects

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Speaker 1: disruptions in an electromagnetic field, which the pod itself generates.

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Speaker 1: So the pod creates an electromagnetic field and then essentially

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Speaker 1: keeps a weather eye on if anything interferes with that

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic field, which sounds pretty high tech, but it turns

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Speaker 1: out the basic electronics inside rim pods, at least inside

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Speaker 1: the original version anyway, is a hobbykit variation of what

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Speaker 1: you would find inside of theremin Now we know that

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Speaker 1: because in twenty nineteen, a skeptic and science enthusiast named

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Speaker 1: Kinney Biddle, who has written articles for The Skeptical Inquirer

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Speaker 1: over several years, he bought an RM pod and he

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Speaker 1: took it apart to see what makes it tick, and

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Speaker 1: you can read his full explanation at Skeptical Inquirer dot org.

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Speaker 1: His piece is titled ghost Hunting Gadgets the rim Pod.

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Speaker 1: But at the heart of the operation was a little

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Speaker 1: circuit called a junior Thereman. We'll talk about that in

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Speaker 1: just a moment. Now. I did an episode about Thereman's

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Speaker 1: way back in twenty eleven. Could Lord have been doing

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Speaker 1: this for a long time anyway? The Thereman is an

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Speaker 1: interesting musical instrument. It was invented in nineteen twenty eight

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Speaker 1: by a guy named Lev Turman, who had been changed

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Speaker 1: his name to Leon Thereman, and the device thus bears

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Speaker 1: his name. Interestingly, he didn't set out to make a

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Speaker 1: musical instrument to begin with. His actual goal was to

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Speaker 1: build a censor capable of detecting objects, kind of in

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Speaker 1: a way similar to how sonar works underwater. His methodology

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Speaker 1: didn't quite work out. It never could extend to a

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Speaker 1: point where it would be useful, Like if you did

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Speaker 1: detect an object with electromagnetic fluctuations, it would be when

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Speaker 1: the the object was close enough for you to kind

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Speaker 1: of see it and potentially touch it, so the meter

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Speaker 1: would not be of much use. However, he did figure

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Speaker 1: out a way to leverage this and create a musical

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Speaker 1: instrument that would require no contact. He thought of it

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Speaker 1: kind of like you would play this musical instrument as

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Speaker 1: if you were a conductor of an orchestra. Your hands

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Speaker 1: would never have to make contact with the instrument at all.

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Speaker 1: They would move around it and manipulate an electromagnetic field,

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Speaker 1: and then you would generate a sound through this instrument

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Speaker 1: that way. And it's not lost on me that nearly

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Speaker 1: a century later, Galica would essentially reverse this process of

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Speaker 1: turning a device meant to detect objects into a musical instrument,

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Speaker 1: and Galka would take a circuit meant to emulate a

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Speaker 1: musical instrument and turn it into a device that detects something,

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Speaker 1: not objects, but gigigos. Now, even if you've never seen

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Speaker 1: a thereman before, you've likely heard the noise it makes

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Speaker 1: this weird, warbly sound. You sometimes hear an old sign

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Speaker 1: fiction or horror films that whoaoo kind of stuff, very

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Speaker 1: warbly and unearthly. And your basic theramen is a box

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Speaker 1: that has two antenna extending from it. Typically one goes

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Speaker 1: vertical and one goes horizontal. And by positioning your hands

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Speaker 1: near the two antennas, you can cause the theramen to

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Speaker 1: create an electronic sound, and you can manipulate that electronic sound.

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Speaker 1: If you move your hand closer to or further from

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Speaker 1: the vertical antenna, you affect the pitch. If you move

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Speaker 1: your hand closer to or further from the horizontal antenna,

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Speaker 1: you affect the volume. To get more technical, a theremin

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Speaker 1: has a pair of oscillators connected to a circuit to

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Speaker 1: affect the pitch, so the vertical antenna. Here, one oscillator

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Speaker 1: is variable and the other is set to a fixed value.

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Speaker 1: The fixed value oscillator produces radio waves at a stable

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Speaker 1: static frequency. The variable oscillator can, as the name suggests,

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Speaker 1: generate a variable radio frequency, and the two signals mix

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Speaker 1: in a process that's called heterodyning, in which one frequency's

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Speaker 1: value is subtracted from the other. Now, the volume antenna

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Speaker 1: is simpler. It uses a single oscillator to generate a

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Speaker 1: frequency that you disrupt by moving your hand closer to

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Speaker 1: or further from the connected antenna, and that signal then

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Speaker 1: goes to an amplifier and ultimately to speakers to create

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Speaker 1: the warbly effect that we hear. And Leon Therreman first

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Speaker 1: noticed that the human body could disrupt electromagnetic fields while

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Speaker 1: he was working with an oscillating circuit that was just

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Speaker 1: generating a radio frequency, and he saw that when he

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Speaker 1: moved into the electromagnetic field, the frequency that was produced

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Speaker 1: by this circuit changed. And as Kenny Biddle found, that

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Speaker 1: was the basic concept of the arium pod as well,

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Speaker 1: except that instead of a device designed to make music,

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Speaker 1: it's meant to indicate if some sort of ghost is nearby,

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Speaker 1: or at least if something is interfering with the antenna's

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic field, which is more accurate. So let's describe the

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Speaker 1: device as Biddle in countered it. When he took it apart.

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Speaker 1: His RM pod had an exterior made of PVC coupling,

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Speaker 1: so the kind of stuff that you can buy at

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Speaker 1: your average hardware store. It was cylindrical in shape with

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Speaker 1: an extendable antenna in the top of it, and it

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Speaker 1: also had four translucent rods extending from the top. These

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Speaker 1: he believed were made out of hot glue stick, and

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Speaker 1: filling the PVC coupling was resin with more hot glue stick,

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Speaker 1: apparently mixed in potentially to help cut down on the

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Speaker 1: amount of resin needed to fill the whole thing, and

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Speaker 1: the four ends of the glue stick stuck up out

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Speaker 1: of the resin, and at the base of those glue

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Speaker 1: sticks were LED lights, so the lights would shine up

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Speaker 1: through the length of the hot glue stick so that

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Speaker 1: you could see the light at the top of the

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Speaker 1: RM pod right, so kind of an inexpensive way of

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Speaker 1: making sure the LEDs would show through. There was also

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Speaker 1: a small speaker at the center of the top of

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Speaker 1: the RAM pod that would emit an electronic noise if

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Speaker 1: the electromagnetic field were disturbed. The antenna, speaker, and the

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Speaker 1: lights under the glu sticks all connected to a junior

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Speaker 1: thereman circuit, and this in turn connected to a battery,

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Speaker 1: a nine volt battery in this case, and the circuit

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Speaker 1: basically recreates the function of a theremin. According to Biddle,

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Speaker 1: the whole thing or the circuit at least the junior

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Speaker 1: Thereman circuit cost around twenty dollars. So the original rim

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Speaker 1: pod was essentially a junior Thereman with some LED lights

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Speaker 1: added to it. And if you get close to the

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Speaker 1: junior Thereman's antenna, which is Biddle described as just a

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Speaker 1: piece of wire, you interrupt the electromagnetic field that it

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Speaker 1: generates and you cause it to go woo woo ooo

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Speaker 1: or whatever. You would need to be about six inches

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Speaker 1: or closer in order to set it off. Now, presumably

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Speaker 1: the wire from the junior Thereman's circuit connected to the

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Speaker 1: extendable antenna that protruded from the top of the rim pod,

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Speaker 1: and of course the lights would light up as well

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Speaker 1: in case you didn't pick up on the electronic squeal. Okay,

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Speaker 1: more about the rim pods in just a second, but

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Speaker 1: first let's listen to some spook key advertisements. We're back.

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Speaker 1: So Kinnny Bindle, he takes this rim pod and he

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Speaker 1: takes it apart, and he looks at what makes it tick.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that he kind of bulked

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Speaker 1: at was that if you took all these components separately,

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Speaker 1: they'd probably cost you, I'm going to say less than

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Speaker 1: thirty dollars. I mean the junior thereman's circuit was twenty bucks.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing that that was probably the most expensive component

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Speaker 1: in that device, So you're talking around. Let's be generous,

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Speaker 1: let's say forty dollars or less, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: probably less than thirty. Galka's company sold them at a

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Speaker 1: substantially higher price. So the current model, which is not

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Speaker 1: exactly the same thing that Biddle disassembled in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: goes for about a one hundred and seventy dollars. Now

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Speaker 1: I should add that the current rim pod also includes

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Speaker 1: a temperature sensor in it, which was not in the

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Speaker 1: one that Biddle disassembled in twenty nineteen, and this temperature

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Speaker 1: sensor will alert you if the temperature around the pod

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Speaker 1: changes by plus or minus five degrees. But as I said,

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Speaker 1: the original rim pod didn't have a censor in it.

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Speaker 1: It was essentially a junior therem And kit with some

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Speaker 1: LED lights. So it was a novelty. In other words,

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Speaker 1: it was a novelty that had been repackaged and marketed

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Speaker 1: as a ghost hunting tool and then sold for a

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Speaker 1: heft markup. At least that's what Biddle found a piece

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Speaker 1: in NBC News back in twenty twelve mentioned that Galka's gadgets,

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Speaker 1: including but not limited to rim pods, had a range

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Speaker 1: of prices that went from seventy nine dollars on the

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Speaker 1: low end to a whopping three hundred and fifty bucks

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Speaker 1: on the high end. So this makes me very uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: because again, he didn't invent something new. He took existing

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Speaker 1: devices and combined them in a way that really, in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, was not transformative. Like you could have just

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Speaker 1: used the junior therem in circuit as is. You didn't

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Speaker 1: need the LED lights necessarily. I mean, you could connect

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Speaker 1: those two a circuit as well and power it and

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00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 1: get the same sort of result. But you could just

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Speaker 1: use the junior therem and circuit and listen for anything

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Speaker 1: that sets it off because it interferes with the field

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Speaker 1: that it generates, because that's essentially what the ram pod

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Speaker 1: is doing. That you could do that for like twenty

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Speaker 1: bucks plus whatever it costs you to buy a battery

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Speaker 1: for the darn thing, and then to have to pay

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Speaker 1: upwards of one hundred and seventy dollars for that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing seems a bit excessive in my opinion. Biddle

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Speaker 1: describes the way ghost hunters use this gadget. I'm actually

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Speaker 1: going to quote him directly here. Quote. When it comes

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Speaker 1: to ghost hunting, enthusiasts typically use the rim pod as

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Speaker 1: a spirit communication device. The device is placed in an

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Speaker 1: allegedly haunted location, room, hallway, staircase, et cetera, and ghost

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Speaker 1: hunters begin asking various questions. The ghosts are directed to

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Speaker 1: touch the device or make it light up. A positive

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Speaker 1: response occurs when the device lights up and makes noise,

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Speaker 1: and the spirits are thanked for their participation. End quote.

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Speaker 1: A little bit later on that same article, Biddle also

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Speaker 1: writes quote. In the event the ghost hunters receive no response,

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Speaker 1: the questions are often repeated multiple times, or the ghost

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Speaker 1: hunters move onto different questions until the device eventually lights up.

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Speaker 1: This is a similar method that to that used during

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Speaker 1: EVP Electronic voice phenomenon sessions, where ghost hunters are waiting

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Speaker 1: for a vocal response rather than hearing a tone played

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Speaker 1: along with some lights. If no response comes at all,

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Speaker 1: I often hear excuses such as the spirits don't want

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Speaker 1: to talk tonight, or it doesn't always work, but it

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Speaker 1: worked great last time. Quote. As Biddle points out, the

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Speaker 1: problem here is that there are plenty of opportunities for worldly,

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Speaker 1: mundane stuff to set off a device like an rim pod.

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Speaker 1: Not only has no one yet established the existence of ghosts,

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Speaker 1: let alone that they're capable of interacting with or manipulate

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic fields. We know for a fact there are plenty

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Speaker 1: of things that do interact with electromagnetic fields that are

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Speaker 1: not ghosts, you know, like cell phones or walkie talkies,

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00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,920
Speaker 1: or even natural sources of radio waves. Biddle describes tests

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Speaker 1: in which he found rim pods to react to two

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Speaker 1: way radios from as far away as forty feet if

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Speaker 1: you were inside like indoors, or as far away as

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00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,399
Speaker 1: twenty feet if you were outdoors. He even observed an

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Speaker 1: rim pod reacting when walkie talkies were used on the

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00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 1: floor above or below where the pod was. So if

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Speaker 1: someone's upstairs and they're using the walkie talkie to chat

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00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 1: with someone, the rim pod could potentially pick that up

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Speaker 1: and go off, and you might not hear the person

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Speaker 1: upstairs talking, but you'll see the rim pod go off,

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Speaker 1: and you'll think, ah, ghosts. Often ghost hunting crews use

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Speaker 1: two way radios in order to stay in communication with

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Speaker 1: each other, or you know, someone could have a cell

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Speaker 1: phone on them and if they're sitting close enough to

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Speaker 1: the pod while the cell phone is connecting to the

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00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 1: closest tower to get updates, it could set off an

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Speaker 1: rim pod. So it's easy for an rim pod to

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Speaker 1: be set off either on purpose. Let's say that there's

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Speaker 1: someone who has an incentive to have the pod go off.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're the host of a ghost hunting show and

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Speaker 1: they want the camera crew to capture some activity on

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Speaker 1: this rim pod. You know, maybe having a crew member

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Speaker 1: nearby just you know, casually have to use the two

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Speaker 1: way radio for something and whoa, hey, by coincidence, the

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Speaker 1: rim pod has gone off that looks good on camera.

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Speaker 1: Or it could just be done by accident, right. It

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Speaker 1: could be that you're sincerely looking for ghosts. You are

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Speaker 1: not trying to fool anyone. You're really just being as

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Speaker 1: straightforward as you can be. But because you're using two

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Speaker 1: way radios, you might accidentally set off the rim pod

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Speaker 1: and you have what you believe is a positive response,

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Speaker 1: when in turn, it really is a false positive. Biddle

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Speaker 1: laments the fact that ghost hunters rarely introduce controls to

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Speaker 1: eliminate outside interference with their equipment. This is I've found

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Speaker 1: to be true pretty much across the board, like some

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00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,400
Speaker 1: ghost hunter types actually do try to use controls and

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Speaker 1: they get very lackluster response, like lackluster results, because as

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00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 1: it turns out, when you start to control for potential

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Speaker 1: interference that the existence of ghosts seems to just disappear.

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00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: So again, ghost hunters, I think are incentivized to not

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Speaker 1: use controls because if they do, then they don't get results.

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Speaker 1: So Biddle says, well, one way you could control for

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Speaker 1: this kind of thing is you could use a Farred

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Speaker 1: cage in order to isolate an rim pod from environmental interference,

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00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: and thus the POD's own electromagnetic field will remain untouched

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00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 1: by anything outside like two way radio traffic or cell

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00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: phones or whatever, and only something inside the cage would

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00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 1: affect the rim pod. So I figured, that's a great

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Speaker 1: excuse to talk about what a Faraday cage is and

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Speaker 1: how it works. And just as a side note, this

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00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,679
Speaker 1: was kind of fun while I was researching Faraday cages

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Speaker 1: because you know, I know general how they work, but

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00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,679
Speaker 1: I wanted to get a refresher. I found an article

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Speaker 1: on how stuff works, which is my old employer, and

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Speaker 1: I was delighted to see that my old co host

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00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: and editor had a byline on that article. That's Chris Pollette,

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Speaker 1: by the way, my original co host for tech Stuff,

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Speaker 1: And so that was just nice because I miss Chris.

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Speaker 1: He's great. I loved working with him, both as a

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Speaker 1: writer and as a podcaster. Anyway, the Faraday cage is

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Speaker 1: named after a guy named Michael Faraday Cage. Wait, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, just Michael Faraday. But the earliest experiments were

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Speaker 1: performed by one, let's see, Benjamin Franklin. So old Benji

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00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: was experimenting with electricity. You might recall that he did

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00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 1: that a bit. So he took a can that was

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00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: made of silver, and he electrified the can, and he

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00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: experimented with lowering a piece of uncharged cork that was

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Speaker 1: on a non conductive thread and lowered it into the

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Speaker 1: can and had it touched the bottom of the can.

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Speaker 1: And what he found to be strange is that if

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Speaker 1: he were to bring the cork near the outside of

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00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 1: the can, like if you were to dangle the cork

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00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: so that was next to the exterior surface of the can,

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Speaker 1: the cork would get attracted to the can. It would

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Speaker 1: become charged. It would pick up an electrostatic charge and

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00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 1: it would be attracted to the can surface. But when

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00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 1: he was doing this on the inside of the can,

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00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: that didn't happen. The cork did not appeared to become

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00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: electrostatically charged, and Franklin couldn't figure out why. He was stumped.

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00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: He actually wrote to a friend of his that maybe

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00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: someone else would figure it out, because he could not

381
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 1: understand why it would work on the outside but not

382
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: the inside. Well decades later, Michael Faraday's experiments led him

383
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 1: to observe that if one created a metallic cage or

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00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,719
Speaker 1: a container of some sort, like if you made a

385
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: mesh of metallic material and you electrified the mesh, it

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00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: actually would electrify the exterior surface. The charge would only

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00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: be on the outer surface of the cage, not the

388
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: inside of the cage. So essentially you had created a

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00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: hollow conductor. All the conductivity happened on the outside, but

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00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: not the inside. And he even created a very large

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00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,919
Speaker 1: experiment in which he lined in entire room's walls with

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00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: metallic foil. He electrified the foil, and he used a

393
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: very sensitive instrument designed to detect electrical charges on the

394
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: side of the room and found no electrical charge on

395
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: the inside, just on the exterior surface of this foil.

396
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: Now beyond that, his later observation showed that within a

397
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: Faraday cage, electromagnetic radiation also doesn't penetrate. So if you

398
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: were to put your cell phone inside of Faraday cage,

399
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: your cell phone would not receive any notifications or get

400
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 1: any updates. The cell phone would just be isolated from

401
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 1: the outside world, at least in terms of electromagnetic radiation.

402
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: And so if you place an rim pod inside of

403
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: Faraday cage, that would ensure it would not be affected

404
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: by stuff like two way radio communication or other external

405
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: sources of electromagnetic radiation. So presumably a ghost would be

406
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: able to get its spectral hands on an rim pod

407
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: by passing through the cage, like we assume that ghosts

408
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: are able to pass through materials. And yet the one

409
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: time Biddle talked about observing a team using a Faraday

410
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: cage as a means of a control the rim pod,

411
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: it didn't go off at all. So that seems to

412
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: indicate that the Faraday cage, once it eliminated the sources

413
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: of external interference, it also eliminated the possibility that there

414
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: was a ghost there. Now, I suppose you could argue

415
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: that ghosts, due to their as yet unestablished relationship with

416
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 1: electromagnetic radiation, are somehow bound to the physical laws that

417
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: all other stuff obeys. But since we haven't proven ghosts

418
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,719
Speaker 1: even exist, it seems silly to make that argument, just

419
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: as it seems silly to argue that they could manipulate

420
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: electromagnetic radiation in the first place, Like by what logic

421
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: if you say, well, well, of course the ghosts didn't

422
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: affect the rim pod. It was shielded by a Faraday cage,

423
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: and the ghosts can't pass through. Why in fact, while

424
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: we get to it, why could it affect the EMF

425
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: the electromagnetic field in the first place? Anyway, While Galka

426
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: created the first ram pod, I refused to use the

427
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: word invented because, as bid Old demonstrated, it was really

428
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: a theremin's with some lights added to it. Well. Others

429
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: have since created variations on the rim pod. They still

430
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: call them rim pods in most cases, but they're not

431
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: all made by Galka's company. Some are made by other companies.

432
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: One that I found personally really upsetting was from a

433
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: company called spirit Shack. It's a UK company. They market

434
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 1: a Teddy Bear with rim pods built in so the

435
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 1: bear's pause illuminate when it detects a fluctuation in the

436
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: electromagnetic field. And it's meant to be a device used

437
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: to communicate with the ghosts of children, which absolutely turns

438
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 1: my stomach because I feel this is device that exploits

439
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: the profound grief of a family in a way that's

440
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 1: really disturbing, and it's hard to reconcile the fact that

441
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: a company makes money off of this thing, right, it's

442
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: not just that, Like I understand the need or the

443
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: desire to be able to reconnect with a lost child,

444
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: like that is understandable. You know, that is a profound grief.

445
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: What I don't understand is a company that makes a

446
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: gadget that has no proven utility for this specific purpose

447
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: and they're selling it to people for the Or you're

448
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: a ghost hunter who's exploiting a family that is going

449
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: through this kind of grief. Maybe you sincerely believe you're

450
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: actually trying to help reach closure or get a reconnection

451
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: or whatever, but to me, it just comes across as opportunistic.

452
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: In the worst of circumstances, anyway, we're going to take

453
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: another quick break. When we come back, I'm going to

454
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: talk about the mel meter, which, at least in some

455
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: versions of the mal meter, is like an arim pod

456
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: on steroids. We'll chat more about that after we take

457
00:27:49,760 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: this quick break. Hey, we're back to talk about the

458
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: mel meter, named after Melissa Galka, the daughter who tragically

459
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: passed away in two thousand and four in a car accident.

460
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: And the mail meter incorporates some of the same tech

461
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: as rim pods, at least in some versions of the malmeter.

462
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: There are you know, different levels of malmeter. The malmeter

463
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: typically has more metaphorical bells and whistles than the rim

464
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: pod does. The very basic malmeter sells for ninety nine dollars,

465
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: so it's actually less expensive than the rim pod and

466
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: it quote measures EMF and ambient temperatures end quote. So

467
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: it's you know, similar to modern rim pods in that

468
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: it does deal with electromagnetic fields, but in this case

469
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: it's a meter, not just a detector. The rim pod

470
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: just makes a noise and generates lights when something interferes

471
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: with its electromagnetic field. The mal meter measure electromagnetic fields. Oh,

472
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: it's also got a high intensity red flashlight built into it,

473
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: as well as the thermo couple or sensor that detects

474
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: temperature changes. So the coupler actually plugs into the top

475
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: of the device. You can unplug it if you want to.

476
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: That's particularly important if you want to preserve battery life

477
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: because the sensor does put an extra strain on the battery,

478
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: as does the backlight for the display of the EMF meter,

479
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: So if you're in a brightly lit area, you probably

480
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: would want to turn the back light off or else

481
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: you just be chewing through batteries faster than you need

482
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: to be. The advanced melmeters also have an rim pod

483
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: built into them, so they'll have an antenna that extends

484
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: from the melmeter. Not all melmeters do. Some of them

485
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: just have the little thermo couple sensor, which looks like

486
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: an antenna, it's not. It's a temperature sensor. And then

487
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: the more advanced ones have an extendable antenna because they

488
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: have an rim pod, so they generate their own electromagnetic

489
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: field and they will light up and make noise if

490
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: something comes close to it, just like just like a

491
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: junior thereman circuit wood that's connected to LED lights anyway,

492
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: So the one I looked at that was the Top

493
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: of the Line even had a laser projector, so it

494
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: projects laser dots so you can keep an eye out

495
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: for anything that moves between the mailmeter and whatever surface

496
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: you're pointing it at. Apparently, the top of the line

497
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: model also has an expansion slot so that you can

498
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: potentially boost your mailmeters capabilities with whatever it is the

499
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: company comes up with next, presuming that whatever it comes

500
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: up with next is actually compatible with the rest of

501
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: the circuitry in the mail meter that you're using now.

502
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: In my opinion, the mail meter is another example of

503
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: a gadget that just repackages already existing technologies such as

504
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: EMF meters. So EMF meters can be used by folks

505
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: like electricians and stuff if they're looking for faulty wiring

506
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: in a house or whatever. Most electricians are using things

507
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: like voltme and stuff are multimeters that plug into outlets.

508
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: There are some no contact meters that electricians will use.

509
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: Typically they're using those in environments where it would be

510
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: dangerous to make contact. So you're like, like high voltage situations,

511
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, danger danger high voltage. That's for

512
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: my friend Shay the EMF meters that you typically see

513
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: in ghost hunting. I don't know how how widespread they

514
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: are for electricians, but I do know that they're not

515
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: nearly as expensive as the ones that are marketed for

516
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: ghost hunting. Again, ghost hunters are highly motivated because they're

517
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: seeking out stuff that is unsupported, and that I think

518
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: adds to the motivation to actually go out there and

519
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: find something right, and so they will spend more money

520
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: on devices that aren't necessarily worth the cost. So the

521
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: EMF meters and mail meters, I can't speak to the quality.

522
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: They might be very good. I don't know, but a

523
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: basic digital EMF meter costs between thirty and forty dollars.

524
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: That's a basic one. They do go up from there.

525
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: You can also get analog ones, but those are less expensive.

526
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: The Mel eight seven zero four R seven to one

527
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: premiere model of Mel meter is priced at three hundred

528
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: and twenty nine dollars that you can pick it up

529
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: on sale for just two hundred and seventy five bucks

530
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: as of the time I'm recording this two hundred and

531
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: seventy five dollars. Keep in mind, the basic EMF meters

532
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: are thirty to forty dollars. Now, to be fair, the

533
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: top of the line mailmeter also has that laser projector

534
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: and the ram pod capabilities built into it, so it's

535
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: more than just an EMF meter, But I don't think

536
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: it's a multi axis EMF meter. It might be, but

537
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: I don't think it is. In a separate article, Biddle

538
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: wrote about a ghost hunting team using a basic mail

539
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: meter that was a single act says EMF meter. So

540
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: what do I mean by that? Well, electromagnetic fields are

541
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: three dimensional things, right, they exist within three dimensions. But

542
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: EMF sensors often only measure along one axis one direction,

543
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: so in order to get a full reading, you would

544
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: actually need to change the orientation of the meter in

545
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: order to measure along three separate axes to get an

546
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: accurate reading. So think of it like you have the

547
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: meter set horizontally to measure along one axis, you turn

548
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: it ninety degrees so that you measure along a second axis,

549
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: and then you turn it vertical to measure along a

550
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: third axis. There are EMF meters out there that can

551
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: measure along all three axes simultaneously, and they are the

552
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: more expensive ones. So if the malmeter in fact is

553
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: a multi axis EMF meter that would explain at least

554
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: in part the price. But Biddle seems to suggest at

555
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 1: least the malmeter that he observed was a single access meter.

556
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if the more advanced ones are as well,

557
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: but you know, if they are single access, then that

558
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: that markup is even more impressive. I'll say the ghost

559
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: hunting trend, I'm guessing has boosted sales of various radio

560
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: frequency and EMF detectors more than any of the mundane

561
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: use cases for those technologies. So I guess that's good

562
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: news for the electronics companies out there that make these things.

563
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: But I still maintain that it's largely it's a waste

564
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 1: of time. It's a misuse of technology. The only way

565
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: to get results is to either use the technology in

566
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: ways that are improper or with improper controls to eliminate

567
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: other explanations besides the supernatural. And what it largely does

568
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: is that it contributes to ignorance, specifically ignorance as with

569
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: regards to what technology does and what it can do.

570
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: And I think that's what I object to second most most,

571
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: the thing I object to most is the manipulation of

572
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: people's emotions. You know, people who are experiencing loss, And

573
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 1: I do think it's valuable for people to find sources

574
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: of comfort and to find ways to process grief so

575
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 1: that they can continue on with their lives while still

576
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: honoring those who were part of their lives before. I

577
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: think that's really important. I do not believe that most

578
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: of the ghost hunting stuff that goes on provides that

579
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 1: level of comfort. I worry that it exacerbates a problem

580
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: and makes it worse. Those are the two prongs I

581
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: mean again, critical thinking and compassion. Those are the two

582
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: guiding principles for this show. If we use critical thinking,

583
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: we have to say if ghosts exist, we haven't proven it.

584
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: And the processes that people are using in order to

585
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: hunt for ghosts are unproven to even be connected to

586
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: ghosts in the first place. So it's putting the cart

587
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: before the horse. And if we're doing this and it's

588
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: all folly and in the process we're hurting people emotionally

589
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 1: and psychologically who are trying to deal with grief, then

590
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: we would actively be making the world worse, and in

591
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: my opinion, the world we don't need to help with that.

592
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: We can do better than that. We can take actions

593
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: that make the world a better place now. Maybe someday

594
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: in the future someone will establish the existence of ghosts

595
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: in a way that is undeniable, and if that does happen,

596
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: I will certainly change my tune. I have always maintained

597
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: I'm not a denier. I'm a skeptic, but I'm a

598
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: skeptic who has a very very high bar when it

599
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: comes to proving that something supernatural exists, and so far

600
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: no one has met it. But it's not possible to

601
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: meet it, just hasn't happened. In the meantime, I do

602
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: hope all of you out there who are looking forward

603
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 1: to Halloween have a wonderful time. I hope all the

604
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: trick or trading goes great, the parties are fun, that

605
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: you're safe and happy, and have all the appropriate level

606
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: of scares that aren't related to like anything truly scary.

607
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: I hope that all comes true for y'all. I certainly

608
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: love Halloween. I love ghost stories. I love movies about ghosts.

609
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: I just think of them kind of similar to the

610
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: way I think about fairy tales. I really enjoy them,

611
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: but I don't believe them anyway. Take care, happy Halloween,

612
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: and I'll talk to you again. Really soon. Tech Stuff

613
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

614
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts you listen to your favorite

615
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: shows