Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of IHEARTRADI.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.
Speaker 1: Name is Noel.
Speaker 3: They called me Ben.
Speaker 4: We're joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission
Speaker 4: controlled decant. Most importantly, you are you.
Speaker 3: You are here.
Speaker 4: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 4: We're excited about this when fellow conspiracy realist we like you,
Speaker 4: hopefully love cryptids and you guys remember recently we republished
Speaker 4: a classic episode about cryptids from Australia and we got
Speaker 4: so much cool feedback from that we thought now might
Speaker 4: be the evening to follow up with a new cryptid exploration.
Speaker 4: It's a bit of an obscure when for many people
Speaker 4: you might not have heard of it unless you're from
Speaker 4: a specific region of Pennsylvania. No spoilers just yet. Let's
Speaker 4: start at the beginning. Here are the facts. But for
Speaker 4: anybody who listens to the show and doesn't know what
Speaker 4: a crypti is, how would we how would we explain this?
Speaker 3: A mystical creature? That may or may not exist.
Speaker 2: That's pretty great creatures. Biological creatures often sometimes a little
Speaker 2: more magical, that exist in folklora like tales about these
Speaker 2: creatures have been told a lot of times orally over
Speaker 2: the course of centuries.
Speaker 3: I tried to straddle that line there by saying mystical,
Speaker 3: because I think mystical can be magical, but doesn't have
Speaker 3: to be. It could just be the they you know,
Speaker 3: they have.
Speaker 4: An aura of mystery to them, sort of like mazes
Speaker 4: and puzzles.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, the stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's really interesting that cryptids range from highly plausible,
Speaker 2: like slight variations on known species of animals, to I
Speaker 2: would say, on the other end, is that magical thing
Speaker 2: that's maybe not even existing on this plane at all times?
Speaker 4: Mythological right, legendary creatures? Yeah, and there are a lot
Speaker 4: of venn diagrams. Obviously, the most famous cryptids here are
Speaker 4: things like bigfoot NeSSI aka Locknest Monster. I still think
Speaker 4: that's an unfair name, the chupacabra goat Sucker not a
Speaker 4: great street name, but you know, that's just the sort
Speaker 4: of a tip of the iceberg, edge of the forest.
Speaker 4: Every civilization throughout history has some kind of record or
Speaker 4: description or belief in some sort of cryptid, right, and
Speaker 4: often it might be a misidentified real creature, right, how
Speaker 4: like elephant's skulls gave most likely gave rise to the
Speaker 4: mythology surrounding the cyclops. And we know that as science
Speaker 4: advances and as more and more people explore more and
Speaker 4: more parts of the world, belief in some cryptids has
Speaker 4: waned over the centuries, but a lot of people are
Speaker 4: still convinced there are undiscovered creatures out there, usually in
Speaker 4: remote areas of the surface or deep in the depths
Speaker 4: of the ocean, which in a previous episode is where
Speaker 4: we I think that's where we concluded that large undiscovered
Speaker 4: creatures would most likely have to be in the ocean
Speaker 4: at this point.
Speaker 2: Yes, and they are.
Speaker 3: We're also talked about about giving it the outback lately,
Speaker 3: you know, where if there were going to be some,
Speaker 3: it might be in vast difficult to explore places, you know,
Speaker 3: on Earth.
Speaker 2: M Antarctica, underneath the eyes somehow.
Speaker 4: The steps of Central Asia. I'm holding out for that
Speaker 4: Mongolian death worm. Guys, it's just such a cool name,
Speaker 4: that is. Yeah, there are Okay, though, we like we
Speaker 4: always want to point out there are also creatures that
Speaker 4: have been considered cryptids of a very specific type and
Speaker 4: then later they have been proven to exist. They're almost
Speaker 4: always going to be animals that were thought to have
Speaker 4: been alive at one point and then gone extinct, and
Speaker 4: then they're rediscovered, the celacanth being the most the most
Speaker 4: famous example. And some of that obviously goes down to
Speaker 4: the honestly the the condescension of European scientists back in
Speaker 4: the day through history and so they would say it's
Speaker 4: not discovered or it's not real until we from you know,
Speaker 4: Cambridge or whatever see it in person.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there were recent sightings again of the Tasmanian
Speaker 2: tiger that when it went extinct, at least according to
Speaker 2: most everyone. I love seeing those reports because it's often
Speaker 2: trail a trail camera or something that catches what really
Speaker 2: does look to be a Tasmanian tiger. But there's no
Speaker 2: way to.
Speaker 4: Verify unless you you know, Habeas corpus, unless you have
Speaker 4: the body, or you have the scat which is just
Speaker 4: you know, the poop, not the scatman.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Ask the scatman what he thinks of the Tasmania tiger. Unfortunately,
Speaker 4: I believe he may have passed sweed opped up. That
Speaker 4: guy is huge in Japan, by the way, so because
Speaker 4: he did.
Speaker 3: In Japan too, not the you know weather phenomenon, but
Speaker 3: informer you know miikky boom boom bam, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 4: And music is going to come up a lot in
Speaker 4: tonight's episode. This this information is familiar to all long
Speaker 4: term cryptid fans or cryptozoology fans. I said long term
Speaker 4: as though it's a medical condition. That's not the implication.
Speaker 4: But there is good news. As twenty twenty four, I
Speaker 4: guess we are long term cryptozoologists enthusiasts, but as of
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four, last year seems to have been a
Speaker 4: stellar year for cryptids. The more preferred term now is
Speaker 4: lost species, and we have to think of it like
Speaker 4: a large scale murder mystery. Usually, like the big question
Speaker 4: in the mass extinction of Earth, is at what point
Speaker 4: do we say, okay, give up the ghosts, that animal
Speaker 4: is gone from the world, that species is no more.
Speaker 4: We used to say, if you haven't seen it in
Speaker 4: the wild or on the streets or in the zoo
Speaker 4: for fifty years, then you can say it's extinct. But
Speaker 4: it looks like fortunately a lot of those deaths got
Speaker 4: announced prematurely.
Speaker 3: For example, back in the nineties the International Union for
Speaker 3: Conservation of Nature revised this to kind of change the
Speaker 3: language a little bit to deem species extinct if certain
Speaker 3: criteria were met. One that they refer to in the
Speaker 3: document is if no reasonable doubt exists that the last
Speaker 3: individual member of that species has in fact died. And
Speaker 3: sometimes there can be discoveries that lead to, you know,
Speaker 3: finding out that's not in fact the case. For example,
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three, there was a rare lizard called
Speaker 3: the I'm guessing it's lead lions because a spell with
Speaker 3: a whilik in France and leon's by whatever leons. Grassland
Speaker 3: striped skink was rediscovered in ding Ding Ding, Australia. So
Speaker 3: just saying a lot of a lot of places to
Speaker 3: hide in that they're bush and it's just tough to
Speaker 3: get out there, you know, and stay for the amount
Speaker 3: of time you would logically need to observe observe the wild.
Speaker 4: And it's it's weird too because these aren't all bugs.
Speaker 4: We'll give you a couple more examples. A colony of
Speaker 4: little penguins they're really called was.
Speaker 3: There is a card for that in wingspan. It's called
Speaker 3: little Penguin. It's horrible.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, good news for them because they had a
Speaker 4: colony that went extinct about thirty lot more than thirty
Speaker 4: years ago, and they were rediscovered, Uh that they had
Speaker 4: returned in a new little penguin had been hatched, and
Speaker 4: even little or tinier penguin.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: And this this happened, you know, decades after everybody, every
Speaker 4: human expert, was convinced they have been wiped out by
Speaker 4: foxes possibly dogs. And then there's more stuff. There's an
Speaker 4: echidna out in the middle of nowhere rainforest in Indonesia.
Speaker 4: People thought that was extinct until November of last year.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: The kidnas, it was gone till November. It was gone
Speaker 4: till November. That's beautiful. Uh the kidnas name this is
Speaker 4: beautiful too. Is Zaglosis Attonbury after David Attenborough.
Speaker 3: Of course it's probably there are more things named after
Speaker 3: David Attenborough. Do you know that all bird names, Sorry guys,
Speaker 3: I've been playing a lot of wigs ban lately. You
Speaker 3: know that all bird names named after people are going
Speaker 3: to be changed.
Speaker 4: But that's like a thing that's not aware of that Yeah,
Speaker 4: that makes sense, really interesting. But they're going to keep
Speaker 4: all They're going to keep all the prank names like
Speaker 4: the Red Tit and all that crowd.
Speaker 3: Oh, there's plenty of tits for days and winspannits unbelievable.
Speaker 4: So we also say that we also have to point out,
Speaker 4: as we've said previously, that in the case of these rediscoveries,
Speaker 4: he says, inspiring and warm and fuzzy as they feel
Speaker 4: they're happening because of some other terrible things that are happening.
Speaker 4: Extinction is spiking, right, human the age of the anthropascene
Speaker 4: means that more humans are getting into places, encroaching on
Speaker 4: traditionally wild animal territory. Still, it's inspiring, and this is
Speaker 4: sort of a love letter this episode to a particular
Speaker 4: cryptid that we would like to inspire and maybe at
Speaker 4: the end we can figure out whether we have decided
Speaker 4: to believe in this guy. If there's one cryptid I
Speaker 4: think we collectively want to see more of in twenty
Speaker 4: twenty four, it's the Squawk.
Speaker 3: And he's not the sexiest.
Speaker 4: We did a little thing online to try to boost
Speaker 4: his self esteem. The internet largely agrees the sexiest cryptid
Speaker 4: is mothman that's known, right just because of that.
Speaker 3: Dumper, right, I mean, and those like nine abs unbelievable.
Speaker 2: The sexiest human like cryptid maybe, yeah, you go. A
Speaker 2: lot of cryptids may not walk upright, or you know,
Speaker 2: have dumpers like that, or abdominals that are just chiseled.
Speaker 2: But but there's other things. The lines and curvature on
Speaker 2: some cryptids could be considered quite.
Speaker 3: A team folds of their the old man's skin.
Speaker 4: There's a beauty to imperfection. I think it was Leonard
Speaker 4: Cohen who said there's a crack and everything.
Speaker 3: That's how well things.
Speaker 2: About NeSSI just how smooth it must be.
Speaker 4: Come on, yeah, and you know it's really in the
Speaker 4: eye of the beholder, isn't it? Not a Dungeons and
Speaker 4: Dragons joke? But I'm very into dungeons and dragons again. Uh,
Speaker 4: the squawk is not the most well known cryptid by
Speaker 4: a long shot, but according to some surprisingly old folklore,
Speaker 4: it may just be the world's saddest cryptid. We're going
Speaker 4: to tell you why afterword from our sponsors. Here's where
Speaker 4: it gets crazy. We're doing a great job with the description.
Speaker 3: I love velveteen skin.
Speaker 4: There maybe we talk a little bit about the hemlock
Speaker 4: forest in northern Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3: This guy is a pretty small range. Oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah. When we say the hemlock forest, we mean all
Speaker 2: the dang hemlock trees that exist in Pennsylvania. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of them, and this thing is allegedly existing somewhere
Speaker 2: in that area. If you look at a map, you
Speaker 2: can find several like natural reserves that are not based on,
Speaker 2: but named after, the hemlock trees that exist within the area.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think if you look on a map
Speaker 2: and the way it's described in many places on the internet,
Speaker 2: it's just hemlock forest, North Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3: It's pretty vague. One quick question that I mean, maybe
Speaker 3: maybe others are wondering hemlock the tree, is the hemlock
Speaker 3: the poison in derived from the hemlock tree or are
Speaker 3: those two completely different things.
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure that the poison hemlock is is a plant.
Speaker 4: I think the hemlock that's poison. It's kind of like
Speaker 4: a carrot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's got little white flowers. Poison hemlock small white flowers,
Speaker 3: So I don't think they're related. But that's I've always
Speaker 3: been confused. I'm glad we took the moment. It is
Speaker 3: because hemlock trees are actually conifers.
Speaker 2: Okay, but this is Connium maculatum.
Speaker 3: And and con and.
Speaker 4: I think hemlock is around the world, right.
Speaker 3: Hemlock trees a lot like pines. I mean really, you know,
Speaker 3: they got that same shape very much, that feel of
Speaker 3: Oregon kind of you know.
Speaker 2: I have a cool scientific name sugay.
Speaker 4: Yeah, or Suga mertensia, because Ruca is a genus.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: Sure, there are a bunch of folks in the family there,
Speaker 4: but yeah, we were looking into We're trying to find
Speaker 4: some specific specificity, like which hemlockforest in particular. But according
Speaker 4: to all the lore, the squawk just doesn't have a
Speaker 4: mailing address. It as a general area. So you got
Speaker 4: to come through and you have to listen very closely,
Speaker 4: because the best way to find the squonk is to
Speaker 4: wait for the sound of weeping. Because this semi quadruped
Speaker 4: has a pretty rough, rough skin condition and it, according
Speaker 4: to the stories, again, it is smart enough to feel
Speaker 4: bad about itself, so it is always lachrymose, and it
Speaker 4: is always just weeping and weeping, and it's tough to
Speaker 4: catch because we'll see that some people call it stupid
Speaker 4: when they're describing it, but no squak has ever been
Speaker 4: officially entered into the scientific record, because even in the
Speaker 4: stories where they catch him, he uses his superpower, which
Speaker 4: is that he dissolves into bubbles and tears when he
Speaker 4: is apprehended or captured.
Speaker 3: Jesus, does he have a function? Sorry? What's this? What's he?
Speaker 3: What's he for? What was he made for?
Speaker 2: Well, for trappings? He was made for trapping, as we
Speaker 2: have found from a was an entry from the eighteen
Speaker 2: hundreds that it was like a somebody's just writing down
Speaker 2: their daily goings about in way Earley, Nebraska or Lancaster
Speaker 2: County out there, and they mentioned the squonk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you can.
Speaker 4: It's weird because you would think, with you know, understandable validity,
Speaker 4: you might think, wow, this guy seems like an internet meme.
Speaker 4: Surely it's a recent creation like slender Man or something.
Speaker 4: But the use of the word squawk and does pictions
Speaker 4: perhaps of these creatures date back, As you said, Matt
Speaker 4: Sen Trees, the Nebraskan settler's diary that we're mentioning eighteen
Speaker 4: seventy eight is great because I just found this one
Speaker 4: of interest because it's dropped so casually, and because it's
Speaker 4: not clear he's talking about squawk, because a squawk is
Speaker 4: not they're not. They're thought to be Pennsylvanian, right, possibly
Speaker 4: desert immigrants to the Pennsylvanian forest, but you don't hear
Speaker 4: about them in Nebraska except on on February.
Speaker 3: What is it there?
Speaker 4: It is on February twenty seventh, eighteen seventy eight, on Wednesday,
Speaker 4: where a guy says, but we'll get a little ephemeral
Speaker 4: with it. Went to Salt Creek. Shiit three traps for autumn,
Speaker 4: two for menk caught to squawk, and I was mad
Speaker 4: and went to literary in the evening where the warm.
Speaker 2: It's so great. What does that mean? I went went
Speaker 2: to literary?
Speaker 3: You mean like a complet go like like a reading
Speaker 3: competition of some kind.
Speaker 4: Maybe it's uh, he goes to the literary often, because
Speaker 4: on January twenty third, the guy's also at the literary.
Speaker 4: So it may be just the local hangout spot in town, right,
Speaker 4: or maybe it's like the community hall or the literary center.
Speaker 2: I think it's gotta be just some kind of, as
Speaker 2: you said, gathering place, because there are several other entries
Speaker 2: that C. C. Beach makes in this diary where he's
Speaker 2: like and then mister mister Perkins joined me to my
Speaker 2: house a lovely fellow. And then I also I stayed
Speaker 2: over at this place for fine folks and just very
Speaker 2: he's a trapper too, so yeah, but he's just making
Speaker 2: his way about and sometimes he goes to literary and
Speaker 2: sometimes he catches to squonk or so he does, or to.
Speaker 4: Catch them, yeah, or squirrel or squawk. But he was
Speaker 4: mad because he's looking for mink and honor. It makes
Speaker 4: me think.
Speaker 3: Of like snipe snipe hunting, you know, like that was
Speaker 3: another kind of mythical creature. And then I think, you know,
Speaker 3: people would use to sort of make fun of inexperienced hunters,
Speaker 3: tell them to catch a snipe, you know, and boy
Speaker 3: scouts to do that. I had.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm glad we're getting to that now because that's
Speaker 4: something that's something I think is important to the conversation.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 4: We gotta we'll see the snexelant setup because we'll see
Speaker 4: some of the i'll say, similar narrative threats. Right like
Speaker 4: Samuel Johnson apparently mentions the squawk and in the description
Speaker 4: we've just gave you in his dictionary. And then the
Speaker 4: most in depth early mentioned what really puts this guy
Speaker 4: on the map is a book by a guy named
Speaker 4: William Thomas Cox. It's called fail Some Creatures of the
Speaker 4: lumber Woods with a few Desert Mountain Beast nineteen ten.
Speaker 3: That's we're kind of fet wow, because we're mainly talking
Speaker 3: about creatures of the lumber Woods. We're going to throw
Speaker 3: out a few desert and mountain beaches just to round
Speaker 3: it out.
Speaker 4: This is the Fearsome Creatures of the lumber Woods with
Speaker 4: a few Desert and Mountain Beast is a book that
Speaker 4: purports to be a compendium of field guide of creatures
Speaker 4: that are considered fantastical, legendary, or cryptozoological. And went back
Speaker 4: and found the original book. Ended up reading a lot
Speaker 4: of it because it's a fun ride. Thought it would
Speaker 4: be thought it would be fun in the interest of
Speaker 4: some performance with our theater backgrounds, if we kind of
Speaker 4: round robined the description of the squawk. It's about three
Speaker 4: paragraphs long, and I don't know there's a poetry to it.
Speaker 3: The range of the squawk is very limited. Few people
Speaker 3: outside of Pennsylvania have ever heard of a quaint beast
Speaker 3: which is said to be fairly common in the hemlock
Speaker 3: forests of that state. The squawk is of a very
Speaker 3: retiring disposition, generally traveling about at twilight and dusk. Because
Speaker 3: of its misfitting skin, which is covered with wats moles,
Speaker 3: it is always unhappy. In fact, it is said by
Speaker 3: people who are best able to judge, to be the
Speaker 3: most morbid of beasts. And I know we're Pennsylvania here,
Speaker 3: and I was putting some Southern on it, but it's
Speaker 3: the only way I know how to talk.
Speaker 2: Old timy hunters who are good at tracking are able
Speaker 2: to follow a squonk by its tear stained trail. For
Speaker 2: the animal weeps constantly when cornered and escapes seems impossible,
Speaker 2: oh and surprised or frightened, it may even dissolve itself
Speaker 2: in tears. Squonk hunters are most successful on frosty moonlight nights,
Speaker 2: when tears are shed slowly and the animal dislikes moving about.
Speaker 2: It may then be heard weeping under the bows of
Speaker 2: dark hemlock trees.
Speaker 3: Mister J. P.
Speaker 4: Windling, formerly of Pennsylvania but now at Saint Anthony Park, Minnesota,
Speaker 4: had a disappointed experience with a squak near Mount Alto.
Speaker 4: He made a clever capture by mimicking the squawk and
Speaker 4: inducing it into a sack in which he was carrying
Speaker 4: it home. Wait, suddenly the bird enlightened and the weeping ceased.
Speaker 4: Wentley nunslung the sack and looked within. There was nothing
Speaker 4: but tears and bubbles bows.
Speaker 3: Okay, these descriptions are remarkably kojent, and like, like, I
Speaker 3: don't you know what I'm saying that, I don't feel
Speaker 3: that these are the descriptions of something made up? Or
Speaker 3: do you do you think this is? Like? Well, what
Speaker 3: story is a good story? Man?
Speaker 4: I mean, Joseph Campbell was right about hero's journeys. Some
Speaker 4: stuff just works in a story, so it sticks around.
Speaker 3: Right. They gave the ring of truth to it, is
Speaker 3: all I'm getting at. There we go.
Speaker 4: They give the They give the squonk a taxonomic definition
Speaker 4: as well, or term lacrymacorpus dissolving's so it combines the
Speaker 4: Latin terms of tear, body and dissolved. So its scientific
Speaker 4: name is dissolves into tears.
Speaker 2: What if it doesn't actually dissolve? What if it shrinks
Speaker 2: itself down because its body mass is like ninety nine
Speaker 2: percent liquid, or you know.
Speaker 4: It can actively dehydrate. That's cool, that's smart.
Speaker 3: I like that. Uh.
Speaker 4: And and this this is as somewhat I guess, if
Speaker 4: not generous. It is a somewhat sympathetic description of a squawk.
Speaker 4: It's saying, hey, it feels bad. It's life is tough.
Speaker 4: Another very very similar book published in nineteen thirty nine,
Speaker 4: written by a different author, but with a very similar title.
Speaker 4: It's a lot meaner. It's more of a distract to
Speaker 4: the squawk. It's like, which squonk hurt you? Did you
Speaker 4: win the squonk date for a while? Why are you
Speaker 4: describing it as slow and of a low mentality? Low
Speaker 4: mentality is such a weird insult.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and ascribing it to a creature that clearly is,
Speaker 2: you know, reproducing. It wouldn't be here if it was
Speaker 2: a reproducing.
Speaker 4: Unless it's the one of its kind, you know, and
Speaker 4: it's somehow supernatural, right. Maybe maybe it jumps through dimensions
Speaker 4: like the people have argued the Bigfoot might.
Speaker 3: Well, it can dissolve itself in tears, y'all. It can
Speaker 3: dissolve itself in tears and bubbles. Perhaps that's some sort
Speaker 3: of form of teleportation.
Speaker 2: You see. Maybe they're not tears. Maybe it's creating a
Speaker 2: portal that it can then like travel.
Speaker 3: Through ectoplasmic good may perhaps it's just its leavings. Yeah.
Speaker 4: They also said in this nineteen thirty nine book, also
Speaker 4: called The Fearsome Critters, they said the squawk is quote,
Speaker 4: probably the homeliest animal in the world, and it knows it,
Speaker 4: which is like weirdly personal. So it's we are able
Speaker 4: to speak with Henry H. Tyrone because our weigelboards out
Speaker 4: of order. But I don't know, man, he's all gas,
Speaker 4: no breaks on dissing this guy, and we have no
Speaker 4: idea whether he met the naked mole rat, which I think,
Speaker 4: again visually skin wise is probably the closest to descriptions
Speaker 4: of a squonk, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that. Do we really describe it
Speaker 2: like full in a full way, like looking at these pictures?
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've got the photos here. These It varies a
Speaker 4: little bit, of course, because there's no actual photograph of
Speaker 4: a squonk, or there's nothing claiming to be a photograph. Instead,
Speaker 4: we have artistic depictions, and in most of those pictions
Speaker 4: what we see is a largely quadruped creature, its eyes vary,
Speaker 4: but they always are weeping. Sometimes there's a little bit
Speaker 4: of you know, when people cry really hard and a
Speaker 4: little snot comes out of their nose. There's a little
Speaker 4: bit of that for the guys's got wartz wrinkles. He
Speaker 4: has sometimes a little tail, sometimes not. There were a
Speaker 4: couple of pictures I saw where he looked a little
Speaker 4: bit more reptilian, but I would say in most of
Speaker 4: them he looks more like mammal with a weird, awkward facer.
Speaker 4: There's one where he looks kind of like the one
Speaker 4: that becomes a meme. He looks almost like a small
Speaker 4: species of bug combined with combined with bovine or goat
Speaker 4: like legs.
Speaker 3: A little bit of water bear quality to.
Speaker 4: It, and maybe that's yeah, like tartar grade almost a
Speaker 4: little bit.
Speaker 3: But his little goat legs are interesting, and they're sort
Speaker 3: of oddly spaced, you know what I mean. They're sort
Speaker 3: of like strangely in the middle, and then he sticks
Speaker 3: out in the front and the back. You know, it's
Speaker 3: a see, he does seem to be a bit of
Speaker 3: an unfortunate creature.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say it reminds you a bit of
Speaker 2: a short nose to kidna. If you weren't really close
Speaker 2: up to it, and then you didn't see the spiky bits,
Speaker 2: you may mistake them for folds and or warts.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good that's a good point. Reminds me
Speaker 4: of the stuff we did on the Frogmen cryptids. The
Speaker 4: idea about creatures getting misidentified, it is pretty pretty frequent.
Speaker 4: But even if, okay, we don't know how tongy in
Speaker 4: cheek these books are meant to be. Are they meant
Speaker 4: to be a fun like McSweeney's type thing, or is
Speaker 4: it like just a cash grab or is it like
Speaker 4: a coffee table book of its time? Did the people
Speaker 4: writing this genuinely believe in it? I'm gonna say probably not,
Speaker 4: but it's tough for us to tell. We can't all
Speaker 4: see the squonk emergent In other works of American folklore,
Speaker 4: Paul Bunyan runs into a squonk. It's the same story.
Speaker 4: Someone hears the weeping or the wailing, and they try
Speaker 4: to mimic it, and then they get close to the squawk,
Speaker 4: they catch the squawk, the squonk disappears. The guy's got
Speaker 4: an im o, which is he's got an emo m o.
Speaker 4: He's got a em no, No, we'll let it go.
Speaker 3: I'll have, I'll have, I'll have what he's having. No,
Speaker 3: I was gonna say earlier. He is a very emo
Speaker 3: little fellow. He's in his feelings you know, a lot
Speaker 3: which you got to appreciate. And I'd get a cryptids
Speaker 3: he under At least he knows you know how to
Speaker 3: feel at leasty, he knows how to emote, he knows
Speaker 3: who he is. Apparently there's a gift to that.
Speaker 4: We also, I think one of the reasons we can
Speaker 4: answer the question about how sincere these authors may or
Speaker 4: may not be is by just giving you a quick laundry
Speaker 4: list of other animals or life forms listed and explored
Speaker 4: in the Fearsome Creature's Book from nineteen ten. They include
Speaker 4: positively Soussian names like the bill Dad, the Tripadero, which
Speaker 4: sounds so cool. The Trippadero sounds like the name of
Speaker 4: a nineteen seventy station wagon to.
Speaker 3: Me, sure does well, you guys, I mean the table
Speaker 3: of contents and this Fearsome Critters book that we've been
Speaker 3: referred to is just absolutely a feast for the census.
Speaker 3: I think I think we've all been dying to just
Speaker 3: like read some of our faith rits do it. Oh,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I guess one that comes to him
Speaker 3: comes to mind for me is the uh, well, there's
Speaker 3: the there's the Columbia River sand squink, not to be
Speaker 3: confused with the squawk. This is a squink, mind you.
Speaker 3: And the come at a body like like it's like
Speaker 3: there's like a threat, like, come out a body, bro
Speaker 3: come at me. Come on, I dare you not to
Speaker 3: mention the side hill gougur not cougar and subspecies. H.
Speaker 2: I found stuff on the shaga maaw guys. It has
Speaker 2: the four legs of a bear and the hind legs
Speaker 2: of a moose, and is quote given to devouring the
Speaker 2: clothing of lumbermen.
Speaker 3: Oh really really really likes flannel.
Speaker 4: And then there's of course the snow la Ghoster, which
Speaker 4: sounds like a snot based roller coaster.
Speaker 3: Yeah of some sort, right.
Speaker 4: Uh, I don't know there These are clearly not scientific names,
Speaker 4: though the team does give them uh to the to
Speaker 4: the animals in each entry. You can find this book
Speaker 4: on for free online thanks to services like archive dot org,
Speaker 4: so you can read the whole.
Speaker 3: Thing if you like. I do have to say that
Speaker 3: some of them have like fun, really fun alternate names
Speaker 3: like this one here is called the the Dinga Mall,
Speaker 3: but then in parentheses it says Plunkus. Which is it
Speaker 3: the Dinga Mall or the Plunkuss? And I send this
Speaker 3: to you guys off air, and as I think probably
Speaker 3: the listeners are already getting irritated with me about I'm
Speaker 3: becoming very obsessed with modular synthesizers. And the plinkiss and
Speaker 3: the squawk both sound like great names for modules that
Speaker 3: make beeps and boops.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna shot one more out, guys. It's the hoop
Speaker 2: snake the way I am looking at it here described
Speaker 2: as a snake that places its tail in its mouth,
Speaker 2: and it's like, bros, it is and then it rolls
Speaker 2: at a very.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of wild West tales about that guy too.
Speaker 4: So weird, really really impossible to dodge. Remember that circle
Speaker 4: ship in Prometheus.
Speaker 3: They seem to have a really difficult time dodging because
Speaker 3: they just kept running in a line as the circles
Speaker 3: ship was rolling after them. Uh.
Speaker 4: You can also check out Fearsome Critters dot org, which
Speaker 4: is the modern day descendant of this and has much
Speaker 4: much more on there, including, of course, the milking trout,
Speaker 4: which of course bothers me.
Speaker 3: You guys know, I'm not a huge Harry Potter fan,
Speaker 3: But isn't there that Harry Potter offshoot called like, uh
Speaker 3: Fantastic Beasts and where to find find them? I think
Speaker 3: this seems like a similar kind of codex.
Speaker 4: And so with these, with these names, what we could
Speaker 4: say is we're seeing more folklore collection than hard investigative science.
Speaker 4: And we have to ask ourselves, with all those other
Speaker 4: creatures identifying in the book, what happened to them? Why
Speaker 4: did the squawk become the breakout star of this American cryptozoography.
Speaker 4: In this case, it's because of the Internet. The Internet
Speaker 4: inspired a renaissance, a squonk lore, fandom, and perhaps even
Speaker 4: genuine belief. I think it was in the two thousand
Speaker 4: and tens we started seeing a lot of memes and
Speaker 4: posts of the squank, the most famos being drawn by
Speaker 4: Ashley Garst. That's the one where the legs are really
Speaker 4: small in the center of the body, and people would
Speaker 4: share this picture and then they would share another picture.
Speaker 4: It's like he's just like me, or he gets it
Speaker 4: because he's a mythical creature that's so ugly. That he
Speaker 4: hides from plain sight and spends most of his time weeping.
Speaker 4: So that's classic Internet reaction stuff, you know, and shout
Speaker 4: out to our good friends over at know your meme
Speaker 4: who have a neat little article on the Internet history
Speaker 4: of the squonk. I was surprised by how many of
Speaker 4: these I felt like I recognized once I started looking
Speaker 4: at him.
Speaker 3: Did you guys look at this?
Speaker 4: Did you see the different macro or what are they
Speaker 4: called image macroon?
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, now, I guess I didn't realize until
Speaker 3: we started talking about it. This was something that I
Speaker 3: had experienced in passing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, like a picture that that macro the squonk,
Speaker 4: and then you know the picture under it is that
Speaker 4: William Defoe meme where he's saying, you know, I'm something
Speaker 4: of a blank myself, but he says I'm something of
Speaker 4: a squonk myself.
Speaker 3: Damn. Some of these got the squank looking kind of
Speaker 3: fearsome though, some sort of creature that would hunt you down,
Speaker 3: you know, and stalk you from from the from the grass.
Speaker 2: Is it looks like a mildly deformed bulldog to me.
Speaker 3: Mm yeah, like someone edited out the neck. Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3: Do you guys remember that movie The Relic. Yes, it
Speaker 3: was like a creature that ran around and eight people
Speaker 3: in the museum. It kind of looks like that. I
Speaker 3: was scary.
Speaker 4: He had sort of tusk like teeth like that was
Speaker 4: the Relic one where the creature can adapt.
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 4: I don't think that's a different one that came out. Okay,
Speaker 4: this one's part reptilia and I'm looking at it now.
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, the Elick was with what's her name, Penelope
Speaker 3: Ann Miller and Tom Sizemore and it's been all. The
Speaker 3: whole thing takes place, I believe, in the Museum of
Speaker 3: Natural History in New York and there's a creature that is,
Speaker 3: you know, stalking the curators of the museum and tearing
Speaker 3: them to shreds. But he kind of looks squonk like
Speaker 3: he's got those weird goat legs that kind of invert
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. That's what That's what made
Speaker 3: me think about it.
Speaker 4: And they call him the Kethuga in there. So there
Speaker 4: is a cryptid star, and cryptids play a huge part
Speaker 4: in pop culture, so does the Squawk. While there's not
Speaker 4: any proof of this guy accepted by modern science. Yet
Speaker 4: he sure shows up in a lot of other things.
Speaker 4: I think maybe we pause for a word from our sponsor,
Speaker 4: if we're all cool with that, and then look at
Speaker 4: the squonk as a cultural phenomenon, and we have returned.
Speaker 4: You guys, I had no idea how popular Blank was
Speaker 4: with musicians in the seventies. It just it's really it
Speaker 4: was unexpected to me.
Speaker 3: Well it makes sense. I mean, you know, you got
Speaker 3: a lot of these seventies bands that are doing the
Speaker 3: prog rock thing, and a lot of that's tied up
Speaker 3: in dungeons and dragon z type lore, and I don't know,
Speaker 3: the squawk is a pretty great candidate for a mythical
Speaker 3: being to write, to write a riff about.
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, you just imagine somebody who came across a
Speaker 2: copy of that nineteen ten book right about the Lumberman,
Speaker 2: the Fearsome Creatures and the Lumbermen, and they're like, ah,
Speaker 2: we absolutely must feature the squawk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's the sensitive fellow?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder why there's not more stuff about some
Speaker 2: of those other ones. I feel like this is there's
Speaker 2: untapped potential in the gilly galoo, the bird that lays
Speaker 2: square eggs. I mean, come on, that's gotta be a thing.
Speaker 4: I think for the names alone, you know, some of
Speaker 4: them are syllabically challenging, right, Like putting in Central American
Speaker 4: wind tosser into a song lyric is a little bit tough.
Speaker 4: Cannabis could do it, Kendrick could do it, but I
Speaker 4: don't know if you will. So, yeah, you're right though
Speaker 4: there is this specificity also kind of reminds me of this.
Speaker 4: This was an era where those songs with more specificity
Speaker 4: of reference seemed a little more welcomed in popular culture.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure. Maybe they were just thinking outside the
Speaker 4: box man, Maybe they were just more inspired, or like
Speaker 4: so many people on the Internet today, saw themselves in
Speaker 4: the story of the Squonk. We're talking off here. I
Speaker 4: think I can't remember who it was when we were
Speaker 4: talking about this before we filmed that video. I think
Speaker 4: we were all surprised to learn that Genesis has a
Speaker 4: song dedicated to the Squonk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's funny because I'm a big Genesis fan
Speaker 3: and I don't know this record super well. It is
Speaker 3: the first one that you pointed out Ben with Phil
Speaker 3: Collins taking over as lead vocals. But I think we've
Speaker 3: talked about too that like Phil Collins does such a
Speaker 3: good job. I was singing exactly like Peter Gabriel. It's
Speaker 3: almost uncanny and a little bit of sus if he
Speaker 3: asked me. But I guess it kind of made sense
Speaker 3: because they were singing, you know, he was singing backup
Speaker 3: for him for so long. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: It's also apparently there is some Genesis lore about this,
Speaker 4: wherein they say that Collins wrote the lyrics. The bassist
Speaker 4: what's his last name, Banks.
Speaker 3: Here's the keywords player.
Speaker 4: I believe, oh Banks, Okay, I believe that he and
Speaker 4: another band member wrote the music and they asked Collins
Speaker 4: to write the lyrics. And so, according to the story,
Speaker 4: he had recently read a book called The Song of
Speaker 4: the Dodo by a guy named David Kwaman, and it
Speaker 4: talks about multiple species going extinct, how they can become
Speaker 4: mythologized or romanticized as these supernatural creatures after their demise,
Speaker 4: and so he wanted to he just made him think
Speaker 4: of the squawk, and so he wrote that song, and
Speaker 4: I guess looked around the room and said, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, Phil, let's do it.
Speaker 3: Is that? Do you think that was their energy?
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yeah, great, Phil, the sad you want to
Speaker 2: make the you want to make a song about the
Speaker 2: sad one that turns into tears.
Speaker 3: Great, here we go.
Speaker 4: He's like, you know, dragons are a thing, Phil, or Bigfoot.
Speaker 4: There are a lot of choices.
Speaker 2: The hoop snake goes really fast, just saying goes hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just veer to the left a little bit, you'll
Speaker 3: be fine.
Speaker 4: Mongolian death worm, I mean, yeah, it was that squawk
Speaker 4: was definitely a choice. Zz Top may have also shouted
Speaker 4: out the squawk and this was their first album. Is
Speaker 4: a song called Squank and kind of like the early
Speaker 4: drawings of the Squank, this seems a little more aggressive,
Speaker 4: like it's about how the the squank lives in the
Speaker 4: swamp and it'll come get you. I don't know if
Speaker 4: that's coincidence. Could also be a portmanteau of sank and wank.
Speaker 4: It could very well could. We haven't talked as easy yet.
Speaker 4: I always thoughts easy Top was a person.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, exactly. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 4: I was always mystified by that one guy who didn't
Speaker 4: have a beard.
Speaker 3: It's his deal, he'sow Was he not permitted to have
Speaker 3: a beard? Was it in the contract. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but we also we do know. Steely
Speaker 4: Dan has a song called any Major Dude Will Tell You,
Speaker 4: which I had not heard. I know about you, guys,
Speaker 4: I had not heard this until this. Well, it has
Speaker 4: the it has the lyrics in there. Have you ever
Speaker 4: seen a squnk's tears? Well, look at mine? Okay, because
Speaker 4: they're just as real. I guess they also, Yeah, with
Speaker 4: the squalk.
Speaker 3: I think that's what it is, guys. I think there's
Speaker 3: sort of like a lot of these these rock band
Speaker 3: people are sensitive at heart. You know, they might put
Speaker 3: up a tough front, but uh, they're sensitive folks, and
Speaker 3: they and they relate to the squawk.
Speaker 4: I can see that, you know. Isn't that the mark
Speaker 4: of a good story? You see yourself in it to
Speaker 4: some degree.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: There's also a Final Fantasy character named Squank. It's much
Speaker 4: more bird like, is it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what Final Fantasy is this?
Speaker 3: In this? In Final Fantasy fourteen, I want to.
Speaker 2: Say, Ah, Okay, I am not familiar with this.
Speaker 4: He is something called a rank B Elite mark in
Speaker 4: the Sea of Clouds. I understand some of those words.
Speaker 4: He has a chirp attack.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: There's also the legendary performance group collective out of out
Speaker 4: of Pennsylvania called Squank And what's that? Uh, what's that
Speaker 4: immersive theater thing we liked in New York Sleep Sleep
Speaker 4: No More and Omega mar Meo Wolf stuff. If you're
Speaker 4: fans of that kind of thing, you might be fans
Speaker 4: of Squank folks. Apparently they've traveled around the world in
Speaker 4: the country creating this really trippy, edgy what did someone
Speaker 4: call it that? Their reviews are pretty interesting post industrial
Speaker 4: performances that sounds fun, crackpot modernist and cartoony. Michelangelo's Russ
Speaker 4: Belt data Debusy meets Godzilla.
Speaker 3: Those are pretty great reviews.
Speaker 4: I think we were trying meets Godzilla.
Speaker 3: I have no idea what that would even entail, but
Speaker 3: I want to find out. Sign me up. You've also
Speaker 3: got this term chemical squawks, which sounds like a performance
Speaker 3: art thing in and I wouldself, which is actually a
Speaker 3: science y term for a stable, stable substance held in
Speaker 3: a solution. Yeah, but but it can't be isolated or
Speaker 3: captured with that being dissolved.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so scientist, the real name for those things is
Speaker 4: chemical squaks.
Speaker 3: That's wild. Well, and then I'm excited to get to
Speaker 3: this part be because we talked earlier a little bit
Speaker 3: about the idea of being sent on a snipe hunt,
Speaker 3: you know, and which is you know, is usually a
Speaker 3: stand in for like a wild goose chase, Like this
Speaker 3: is not something that you're ever going to actually find,
Speaker 3: So what about a squawk hunt? Is that similar or
Speaker 3: is there potential that you might find the damn thing?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, it feels like it's maybe a regional variation
Speaker 4: the idea of going out to hunt for squank, maybe
Speaker 4: like sending someone to hunt for snipe. Did you guys
Speaker 4: ever get sent on a snipe hunt?
Speaker 3: It came up in a very early boy scout event
Speaker 3: camp out thing, so I only have vague recollections of it.
Speaker 3: As you know, I didn't progress very far in the organization.
Speaker 3: But do you remember mentioned of a snipe hunt?
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, pretty common thing, I think, especially in the South.
Speaker 3: Did you have to go on a snipephunt?
Speaker 2: Mat? I go on snipe hunts every night, dude.
Speaker 3: Just to stay on your toes, keep the head on
Speaker 3: a swivel.
Speaker 4: That's right, Oh right, you got a snipe security expert.
Speaker 3: It's a there's an episode of King of the Hill
Speaker 3: where it's not a snipe hunt, it's something else. Maybe
Speaker 3: it is actually the Order of the Straight Arrow. He
Speaker 3: asked the episode, and they send them on a on
Speaker 3: a snipe hunt.
Speaker 4: It's great Order of the Arrow joke. They do make
Speaker 4: you sleep rough in the Order of the Arrow, or
Speaker 4: at least when I joined, it was really weird. You
Speaker 4: know what they gave us for the night. They give
Speaker 4: us a keeper bag with two matches and set the
Speaker 4: set the book back on fire. I don't know, man,
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm just not going to eat tonight,
Speaker 4: all right, but it was weird. I don't think that's
Speaker 4: strictly legal. Uh yeah, I don't know. That's a question
Speaker 4: with that hunt, like in both the in the Snipe case,
Speaker 4: like you guys are saying, it's generally acknowledged right that
Speaker 4: snipe is considered a fictional creature. It's a prank to
Speaker 4: some people hunting for it. But do we think that
Speaker 4: people in Pennsylvania or broad genuinely believe in the existence
Speaker 4: of the squamk or is it seen as more like
Speaker 4: a power or full symbolic thing.
Speaker 3: Well, I just really quickly back to the King of
Speaker 3: the Hill episode as it turns out Bobby takes it
Speaker 3: very seriously and accidentally kills a whooping crane which is
Speaker 3: in danger. So it's a it's a real problem there.
Speaker 3: I think he doesn't actually kill it, he just beats
Speaker 3: it up and it comes back and it rouses us later.
Speaker 3: But god, I think I think it is symbolic. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 3: But with symbolism it can be taken very far by
Speaker 3: a belief. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think anybody actually thinks squawk's real. But
Speaker 2: I bet it's a fun thing for kids, same as
Speaker 2: a lot of the tall tales we tell them to,
Speaker 2: you know, help them understand why there's so many presents
Speaker 2: under the tree and that kind of thing. I bet
Speaker 2: it's a fun It's a fun little thing, especially if
Speaker 2: you're out in them hemlock forests.
Speaker 4: Shout out to Laurel Hill, Right, that's one of them.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: And yeah, we'd love to hear your thoughts on this too, folks, like,
Speaker 4: is this maybe a misidentified real animal and that misidentification
Speaker 4: later gave way to a story that was just too
Speaker 4: interesting to fade into obscurity.
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 4: If that is in the case, indeed the case, what
Speaker 4: was that original animal the kidney idea is really interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for my money that that entry from
Speaker 2: c C Beach where where it says when does Salt
Speaker 2: Creek set transfer and otter to mink and caught to squawk?
Speaker 2: In my head, that is a stand in for useless
Speaker 2: creatures that I can't make any profit on any meat.
Speaker 2: That good for me.
Speaker 3: I think that's right.
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
Speaker 4: No, you're totally doing It makes sense to me because
Speaker 4: he's definitely not getting what he's looking for in that
Speaker 4: in that trapping situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, creatures that would still would that would set off
Speaker 2: a trap, right they the pelt is useless and all
Speaker 2: that stuff.
Speaker 4: I don't know, that's just that's so maybe it's like
Speaker 4: archaic slang, yeah, for just a generic trash animal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not about the squank weeping. It's about you
Speaker 2: weeping because you just spent a bunch of time and
Speaker 2: effort and you caught that and now you don't get
Speaker 2: to eat and you don't get any whatever.
Speaker 3: That's a great idea.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think you were right about the suicide
Speaker 4: dog bridge out there out there in Europe. So this
Speaker 4: feels like a really reasonable explanation to me, A really
Speaker 4: smart one too. We wanted to maybe that has solved
Speaker 4: the mystery. One to end with a big, big thank
Speaker 4: you to everybody for tuning in, of course, but also
Speaker 4: to some folks who gave us some great news. If
Speaker 4: you happen to be in the area of Johnstown, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 4: and you want a really rollicking swamp related time, then
Speaker 4: allow us to introduce you to an entire annual festival
Speaker 4: dedicated to celebrating the world's saddest cryptid Squonka Palooza tenth
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: Hey we should we should have a Little Leo party.
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 4: The Little Leo contingent attending the Squanka Palooza, he yeah.
Speaker 4: They have fun game speakers, performance entertainment vendors, snacks of course,
Speaker 4: And we reached out to the good folks at Squanka
Speaker 4: Palooza when we heard about them after this video and
Speaker 4: just the nicest people. Want to give a shout to
Speaker 4: Lisa of Cryptid Comforts and Joe of Crypto Theology.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: They both sell a lot of like handcrafted cryptid merchandise
Speaker 4: and they gave us the story of how Squanka Palooza
Speaker 4: came to be. Lisa wrote a book called Whyso sad
Speaker 4: Squawk with her friend Brandy Hale, who is the troubadour
Speaker 4: of Squanka Palooza, which I feel like is a really
Speaker 4: cool job title.
Speaker 3: Uh and.
Speaker 4: Lisa teamed up with Joe and he is the boots
Speaker 4: on the ground out there in Pennsylvania. They wanted to
Speaker 4: shout out their fellow cryptocreator, Holly who Art, who designed
Speaker 4: the website helps with the tech side, So shout out
Speaker 4: to Squawka Palooza. Let us know if you're gone, Let
Speaker 4: us know if you're going, who knows, Like Matt said,
Speaker 4: we might end up in town.
Speaker 3: Two absolutely, and let us know if you plan out
Speaker 3: being there. You can reach out to us in the
Speaker 3: usual social media places of note, we are conspiracy stuff
Speaker 3: on Facebook, YouTube, and x nay Twitter we are conspiracy
Speaker 3: stuff show. However, on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 2: You can give us a call. Our number is one
Speaker 2: eight three three std WYTK. Why not call in and
Speaker 2: leave us a three minute voicemail while you are out
Speaker 2: in the Pennsylvania forests hunting for a squawk, We want
Speaker 2: to hear it. Maybe do they do wood knocks? We
Speaker 2: don't know wood weeps. Just call us in, give yourself
Speaker 2: a cool nickname and let us know if we can
Speaker 2: use your message and name on the air. If you
Speaker 2: don't want to do that, why not instead send us
Speaker 2: a good old fashioned email.
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