1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. Am Holly 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. We talked about dishwashers 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: this week. That's the thing I am very grateful for. Same. 5 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: There are a few a few things I wanted to 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: talk about, but especially that article we mentioned from where 7 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: they got Josephine's name completely wrong and listed her as 8 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Cochrane. I don't know if that name rings a 9 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: bell to any of our listeners or to you, but 10 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Cochrane was one of the aliases that Nellie bly 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: used funny. It just struck me as very funny that 12 00:00:52,840 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: this um, this article very repeatedly called called Lissa with 13 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: cochran um. It also when I say it got stuff wrong, 14 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: I mean it got stuff real wrong. And it almost 15 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: made me go didn't know, I bloy like have someone 16 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: confused her with Josephine Cochran and she gave a completely 17 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: fake interview. Because there's so much cockamam me stuff that 18 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: gets added to the story, including that she was working 19 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: on elevators at that point. She never, to the best 20 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: of my knowledge or research, ever worked in the elevator industry. Um, 21 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: so I really was like, was this a dupe? Did 22 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: somebody mess with this poor reporter for not being thorough 23 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: enough to fact check who they were talking to and 24 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: they just gave them a bunch of fake information. Yeah, 25 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: it's so strange to me. When I was in college, 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: I was interviewed by a reporter from the campus newspaper 27 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: about stuff that was coming up for a club that 28 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: I was a co president of, and they recorded the interview. 29 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what happened between that and writing the article, 30 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: but it was riddled with error. Uh. They were big errors, 31 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: and they were errors that made us look bad and 32 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: then made the newspaper look bad. And I still am like, 33 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: how how it was as much of a mess as 34 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: this article. It's so weird to me, right, I I mean, 35 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: we have talked many times about how there was a 36 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: little more I shouldn't even say a little more, there 37 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: was a lot more commonplace flourish and bias in the press. Um. 38 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: That was just kind of like they could, you know, 39 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: fill out a story by adding things like you know 40 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: that I think this defendant isn't cute, so they must 41 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: be guilty. Like, but this was just so weird, just 42 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: completely made up of whole cloth. Oh, she's busy at 43 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: work on an elevator. What that she had moved to 44 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: New York? She not. It was just the weirdest assortment 45 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: of strange, strange things. That is very odd. But boy, 46 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: that's one of the great things I love about looking 47 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: at old newspapers. You find things and you're like, wait, 48 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: what And at first I thought, you know, because you'll 49 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: have that happen if you're doing like a search through 50 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: old newspapers and your search terms will pick up something 51 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: that looks like it should be exactly what your subject is. 52 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: But when you actually open it and look at it, 53 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, no, no no, no, no, this is a 54 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: case of just a duplicate name or something. Nope, it was. 55 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: The first part is all about how she invented the dishwasher, 56 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: and then it goes into this wild cockamam storys so weird. 57 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: It was super weird. We mentioned only briefly because it 58 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: only ever comes up briefly in anything I have read 59 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: about her. The fact that Josephine Cochrane's husband was an 60 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: anti Lincoln Democrat um and was very politically active, and 61 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if It's one of those things of 62 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: once he had passed, which was before she rose to prominence. 63 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: She wasn't really involved in any of that anymore, or 64 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: if people who wrote about her later, recognizing the importance 65 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: of Abraham Lincoln, downplayed any involvement she had in in 66 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party at the time. I don't know, there's 67 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: like nothing, it's it's an empty void of information. Um. 68 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: So I know it's a mystery for me. It was 69 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: one of those things that made me like, uh, you know, 70 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: kind of like set up like a mere cat and 71 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: go I should investigate this, and I there wasn't much 72 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: to fun. Yeah, so I don't I don't know. I 73 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: will tell you this, that last thing we read about 74 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: Whirlpool donating a dishwasher just gave me a chuckle. And also, 75 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: I will note that the the historic marker that was 76 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: placed in the nineties also mentions Kitchen Aid dishwashers by 77 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: brand and has the its A Aid logo on it. 78 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: So some of this is definitely like a corporate quaint 79 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: branding thing. Although it is interesting and I am glad 80 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: that someone bought her home that wants to restore it. 81 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: I think that's a cool project. Um, just in general. 82 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: There are many things on historical markers that are not correct. 83 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: They're like anytime I'm researching something and there's information that 84 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: I find from a historical mark, especially if the marker 85 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: is the only place that it says that I'm always likes. 86 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like a very romanticized or kind of like, 87 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: uh like more of the local lore version than what 88 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: can actually be substantiated. Yeah, Yeah, I also wish we 89 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: need more about George Butter's Yeah, not a lot written 90 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: about him, but clearly very important to the entire thing. Yeah, 91 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: seems to have known what he was doing and to 92 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: have been a good dude. It's not a weasel, especially 93 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: since she does call out other men she had to 94 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: deal with. Yet she kept him, you know, right by 95 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: her side throughout all of their their work together, so 96 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: he clearly was was great to work with for her. 97 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: She never said anything negative about him that I could find. 98 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: There is, as I said, debate about how many dishes 99 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: she actually ever washed. Some things will say she never 100 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: washed dishes, and others will say, like, no, she probably 101 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,119 Speaker 1: actually was doing dishes at home for a long time 102 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: before she decided on this, And there doesn't seem to be. 103 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like people document when they do 104 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: household chores normally, so there's not really any definitive evidence 105 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: one way or the other. The headline of socialite didn't 106 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: want to do dishes is very popular, but frankly, no 107 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: one wants to do dishes. I think there are some 108 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: folks who get satisfaction over the but like for a 109 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: lot of us, as a chore and a not particularly 110 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: pleasant Sure. We recently had an issue in our household 111 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: where the dishwasher wasn't working correctly, and when the tech 112 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: came to look at the dishwasher discovered a plumbing problem 113 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: in the kitchen sink that prevented work on the dishwasher problem. 114 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: We had to get the plumbing thing fixed first, and 115 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: so in addition to the dishwasher being broken, the kitchen 116 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: sink was also a problem. And I was like, my 117 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: life is too many, too many things to be happening 118 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: wrong in the kitchen right now. Yes, yes, when your 119 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: kitchen is messed up, it is so disruptive to a 120 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: point that for me anyway, and I imagine for a 121 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: lot of people it is mentally an emotionally taxing Yeah. Yeah, 122 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: Like I just want to fry an egg and clean 123 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: up after it. That's all I want. Some years ago, 124 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: before we were married, before I had even moved to Massachusetts, 125 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: pat ricks landlord decided not to renew his lease, and 126 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: so he had like a couple of months to find 127 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: a new place to live, which in the Boston metro 128 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: area is often challenging, and he had signed the lease 129 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: on the new place that he found, and afterwards was like, 130 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: wait a minute, I didn't see a dishwasher in the kitchen, 131 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: and he hated washing dishes so much that like then 132 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: this whole period of angst and difficulty of needing to 133 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: unexpectedly move with that without a ton of notice, And 134 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: I used some credit card reward points to buy a 135 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: little model that went on the countertop that hooked to 136 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: the faucet with I remember you telling me about that, uh, 137 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: And it was great. I mean it could only handle 138 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: like four plates, four bowls, four glasses, and some silverwared 139 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 1: time that was like its max capacity. Um, But that 140 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: thing I saw him through the whole time living in 141 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: that apartment, and then us moving in together in apartment 142 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: that also had new dishwasher, and then I can't remember 143 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: if we donated or gave it away when we moved 144 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: into the house that had a dishwasher that works most 145 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: of the time. I feel like if I had one 146 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: that was that little, it would be running constantly because 147 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: I make a shocking amount of dirty dishes for one 148 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: person personally, because I like to cook an experiment and 149 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: I'll be like, I know, for dinner, I'm gonna saute 150 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: twelve different things and they each need to be on 151 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: separate plates before I recombine them into BA I will say, 152 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: in those instances, I usually do try to hand wash 153 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: as I go. It doesn't always work, and their often 154 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: ends up like a pile in the sink. It's just 155 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: a fact of life, dirty dishes. So thank you, Josephine 156 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: for making my life easier. You talked about Viola Desmonds 157 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: after many, many, many listener requests for an episode. UM, 158 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: A couple of things we didn't mention. There were very 159 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: there were a bunch of things that got like put 160 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: into the outline and cut out that were more related 161 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: to her family than related specifically to her. But that 162 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: currency that she was featured on the ten dollar ten 163 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: dollar bill. It's a beautifully designed bill that one awards 164 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: for its design. UM it's also the first vertically oriented 165 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: Canadian bank note, which as somebody who lives in the 166 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: United States, which nonsensically makes all of our bills look 167 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: exactly the same except for like tiny differences. They're all 168 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: the same color, they're all the same size. Having one 169 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: vertically oriented is like a little mind blowing. Sometimes she 170 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: is described as the first woman on Canadian currency. There 171 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: was one earlier woman, uh shown with a group. Um, 172 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: she's the first, I think, the first woman on a 173 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: bill by herself, not as part of a group picture, 174 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: so that is just some Canadian currency detail. I uh 175 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: really enjoyed reading her sister, Landa. Robson's book called Sister 176 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: to Courage. I read both of those books, actually, Sister 177 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: Courage and the one that she co wrote with her professor. 178 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: And I hadn't initially found Sister to Courage, so it 179 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: was something that I got to pretty late in the 180 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: in the process. I had thought that it was just 181 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: a book specifically about her sister, but it's more broadly 182 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: like about their family and how they grew up in 183 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: their parents. Um. And originally I had all these uh 184 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: like little bits of stories about her parents and her 185 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: family life and all I was like, this is not 186 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: actually related to Viola Desmond, um, and I need to 187 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: cut it out to make more room for things that 188 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: are about Viola Desmond. It's interesting to me. One of 189 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: the things that I kept thinking about in this episode 190 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: is the trickiness of figuring out what the right course 191 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: of action is on big issues. Right, because the black 192 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: community was split in Nova Scotia over how she should 193 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: have handled this. Yeah, Um, that's so difficult and put 194 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: someone in such an awkward and hard position because you know, 195 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: they probably all intellectually agreed on what would have been 196 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: the right thing and what would have been fair and 197 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: equal and just. But then it's more complex than that 198 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: because we're all hiddens well, and the Nova Scotia Association 199 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: for the Advancement of Colored People as a group at 200 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: first was also divided about what to do. Like eventually 201 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: they unanimously supported the decision to go to court, but 202 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: like at first, there was a lot of discussion about 203 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: what the right move here. Should we push back, should 204 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: we not push back? So like across the board, that 205 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: was just something that involved a lot of discussion, and 206 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: then people had varying opinions about Um and a lot 207 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: of fear that if people did push back, that it 208 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: was just kind of cause problems. And I mean that's 209 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: come up with other episodes before that. This was an 210 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: interesting thing to research. Being from the United States, where 211 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: we have talked a lot about racism and a lot 212 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 1: about segregation. I read a lot a lot of stuff 213 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: that was written in Canada by Canadians that made comparisons 214 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: to the United States. And one of the things that 215 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: struck me was that, uh, they tended to describe the 216 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 1: system of Jim Crows segregation in the United States as 217 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,599 Speaker 1: how it worked in the United States and the situation 218 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: in Nova Scotia and can Nada was different because this 219 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: was not something that was legally required and it could 220 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: really vary from place to place, And it could vary 221 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: from place to place in the United States too, especially 222 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: outside of the South, right, a lot of places in 223 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: the North did not have specific laws requiring segregation. But 224 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: at the same time, like restaurants in New York City 225 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: would only hire black waiters for a period to like 226 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: try to maintain the appearance of slavery, to like appease 227 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: Southern slaveholders who were visit visitors to New York, Like 228 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: it was a there's a lot more uh, a lot 229 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: more nuanced within the United States. Um that some of 230 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: the things that I wrote were like a little sort 231 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: of imagined the situation in Canada to be different from 232 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: the situation of the United States, when really it was 233 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: very similar to the situation in some parts of the 234 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: United States. I'm reminded de remember when we did our 235 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: episode on the Great Store Derby and the one black 236 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: family that was involved, and the father saying he kind 237 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: of made the opposite point of like, well, at least 238 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: if I were in the United States, this would all 239 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: be overt and acknowledged, whereas here everyone wants to act 240 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: like this is not a thing and it is. The 241 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: Other thing to remember is that there can be laws 242 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: and people don't follow them, Yeah, exactly, which is a 243 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: problem where I think sometimes we get the reductive teaching 244 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: of like history as it relates to racism and slavery, 245 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: where it's like and then there was reconstruction. It's like, 246 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: oh no, I remember, I feel like I was at 247 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: I was at history camp Boston. I was I was 248 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: at a history event of some sort, watching people give 249 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: their their papers and presentations, and there was a presentation 250 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: specifically about after the Civil War, newly freed people trying 251 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: to track down their family members, and then they're descendants 252 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: trying to go back and reconstruct their family trees. And 253 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: one of the things that people were having to just 254 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: remind themselves of was that people were not necessarily following 255 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: the law. Um, and you when you were trying to 256 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: trace through the family tree, you couldn't just assume that 257 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: a slaveholder had quote freed everybody at the same time 258 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: the way they were supposed to. Like, you couldn't assume 259 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: anything about that whole process just because something had been 260 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: made the law. All of this stuff folds folds in together. Um. 261 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: I like how she read something about Madam C. J. 262 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: Walker and was like, I want to do that in 263 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: Nova Scotia, Like I want to start my own business. 264 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: I want to start schools for people. I want to 265 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: train people, And she just did it. Yes, I had 266 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: a slight chuckle, which I hope no one thought was 267 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: disrespectful or reductive when we were talking about her mom 268 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: sewing money into her bra because she was afraid for 269 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: her safety. There was probably a much higher likelihood of 270 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: a nonsafe situation than what I would have experienced. But 271 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 1: It just reminded me of my own mother, who was 272 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: always very anxious and fretful about everything and everywhere I 273 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: wanted to go. Of course, as you know, I am 274 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: something of a free spirit who does not take well 275 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: to being told what to do. So I envisioned myself 276 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: having a mother doing a similar thing and being like, 277 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: you've got to get over this. Yeah, I'm gonna need 278 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: to actually use the money. It cannot be sewn into 279 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: my bra One of the stories about her parents that 280 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: I put in the outline and then wound up taking 281 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: out because um, it was not actually about her, and 282 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: it was like the the episode was just becoming bigger 283 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: and bigger and bigger, and I was like, there's other 284 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: stuff I need to focus on here. Um. Viola desmonds 285 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: uh maternal grandfather had moved to Connecticut, her mother had 286 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: eventually gone to a finishing school in Boston, and she 287 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: had met her father like on a summer break in Halifax, 288 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: married him without telling her father, went back home as 289 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: planned because she was afraid to tell her dad about 290 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: this whole having gotten married without talking to him about it, 291 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: realized that she was pregnant, was trying to figure out 292 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: how am I how am I going to tell my 293 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: dad all this that like, not only did I get 294 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: married without telling him while I was on a break, 295 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: but also I am like, I'm now expecting my first child. 296 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: And somebody sent him a clipping of the wedding section 297 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: of the church bulletin. That was how he found out. 298 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: And he was like, shouldn't you could just shouldn't go 299 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: back home to your husband. Now She's like, yes, in fact, 300 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: I should. Wanda Robson described her grandfather as annoyed by 301 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: this whole situation. Um, so anyway, oh my gracious, yeah, yeah, 302 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: I'm glad I finally got to the Viola Desmond episode. 303 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: I think some of the times that we have gotten 304 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: requests for her have been times like when she was 305 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: first appearing on the Currency and that kind of stuff, 306 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: and there's just a lot of stuff out there about her, 307 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: and uh, it just took me a while. So Happy Friday, everybody. 308 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: I hope your weekend goes well whatever is on your plates. 309 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: We'll be back with a Saturday Classic, uh tomorrow, and 310 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: then we will be back Monday. Was something new? Stuff 311 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: you Missed in History Class is a production of I 312 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit 313 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you 314 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:53,479 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.