1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: M the day after Mother Teresa died. Her body lay 2 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: on a bed of ice in the mother house and Calcutta. 3 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: Hundreds of people stood outside in the rain, somewhere crying. Inside, 4 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: sisters knelt or stood around her body. They prayed the 5 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Rosary aloud and approached one at a time to kiss 6 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: her feet. The chapel was too small for all the 7 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: visitors who wanted to pay their respects, so her body 8 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: was carried through the streets in an open coffin to 9 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: a church, where she lay in state for a week. 10 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: Her funeral was in a sports arena and Calcutta. Some 11 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand people attended, including dignitaries from around the world, 12 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: the presidents of Albania, of Ghana, of Italy, the Queen 13 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: of Spain, the Queen of Belgium, the Queen of Jordan's 14 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: first Lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton, the Prime Minister of India, 15 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: declared at a state funeral, something usually reserved for presidents 16 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: and prime ministers, a leprosy patient carried in the eucharis twine. 17 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: Mother Teresa's personal story seems to me like a vague silhouette, 18 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: something so public and at the same time deeply private. 19 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: As I chiseled my way through. It wasn't long before 20 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: I hit something hard. Mother Teresa's cult of death and 21 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: suffering depends for its effect on the most vulnerable and helpless. 22 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: Abandoned babies, say all the terminally ill. Christopher Higins was 23 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: a political critic and author known for his blistering commentaries. 24 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: Some people called them hitch slaps, and in the nineteen 25 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: nineties he made a television documentary about Mother Teresa, a 26 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: scathing critique. It's called Hell's Angel. Mother Teresa regards herself 27 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: as mandated by Heaven, which is hot, be modest. She 28 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: learns spiritual solace to dictators and to wealthy exploiters, which 29 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: is scarcely the essence of simplicity, and she preaches surrender 30 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: and prostration to the poor, which a truly humble person 31 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: would barely have the nerve to do. Throughout the program, 32 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: Higgins is weirdly lit half his faces and shadow, A 33 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: massive caricature of a devious looking Mother Teresa lurks in 34 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: the background, and Hitchens is ruthless. She takes on the 35 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: grim and tedious tones of the zealot and the finacial 36 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: such a person is manifested in the shape of a demagogue, 37 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 1: an obscure antist, and a servant of earthly powers, a 38 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: presumable virgin who also campaigns against birth control. Hell's Angel 39 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: came out at a time when Mother Teresa was considered 40 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: too virtuous to be criticized. Calls for her sanehood were growing. 41 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: If you haven't heard some of these criticisms before, you 42 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: might be thinking, what is this guy saying? I thought 43 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: everyone loved Mother Teresa. Well, it isn't just Christopher Higgins 44 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: who just has Mother Teresa. Because it has to be done, 45 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: somebody has to do it. Somebody had to do it. 46 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: From a cocoa punch and I heart radio. This is 47 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: the Turning America Lance, Part four, The Devil's Advocates. We 48 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: reached out to the missionaries of Charity Sisters and sent 49 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: them a list of questions we had. While a representative 50 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: did respond, they declined to be interviewed. Critics have a 51 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: lot of complaints against Mother Teresa, and once these criticisms 52 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: entered the world, they became part of her story. They 53 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: still are today. I can't go into all of them, 54 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: but we're going to look at a handful. Let's start 55 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: by going back to something beautiful for God. That's the 56 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: documentary about Mother Teresa by Malcolm Muggridge, the film that 57 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: made her famous. M Muggridge was convinced that a scene 58 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: in his film captured a miracle. It happened in the 59 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: home for the Dying. When the crew tried to film 60 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: in there, the room was so dark that the director 61 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: worried the images wouldn't come out, But it turns out 62 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: they did. The scene was full of light. Immediately Muggaret's 63 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,559 Speaker 1: thought it was divine intervention. He declared it the first 64 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: photographic miracle. But to Christopher Higgins, mother Teresa's critic, this 65 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: miracle seemed too good to be true, and in Hell's 66 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: Angel he included an interview with Muggridge's cameraman, a guy 67 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: named Ken McMillan, who said, it's true they were worried 68 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: about the low light, but they were using a new 69 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: kind of film, some new film made by Kodak, which 70 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: we hadn't had time to test before we left. So 71 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: I said, well, let's have a go, so we shot him. 72 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: A month or two later, they're in the studio looking 73 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: at the footage. Thanks really up came the shots of 74 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: the house of a dying and it was surprising. You 75 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: could see every detail. And I said, that's amazing, it's extraordinary. 76 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: And I was going to go on to say, you know, 77 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: three cheers for Koda. I didn't get a chance to 78 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: say that because Malcolm, sitting in the front rows, spun 79 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 1: around and said, it's divine light. It's Mother Theresa. You'll 80 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: find that it's divine mit. Old boy Malcolm Muggert couldn't 81 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: stop talking about this miracle. He called it a halo 82 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: and a star was born. Here's Christopher Higgins and Hell's 83 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: Angel again. This profane marriage between tawdry media hype and 84 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: medieval superstition gave birth to an icon which few have 85 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: since had the poor taste to question, how does the 86 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: reputation of Holy Mother Teresa look if, just for a 87 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: moment we switch off Malcolm muggerage is kindly light? Well, 88 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: without him, there wouldn't be any Mother Trees obvious sleep, 89 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: because he was the one who puts her on that pedestal. 90 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: This is a roop Chatter Gee a physician in London. 91 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: He collaborated with Hitchens on the film Hell's Angel. He 92 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: also published a book, jam Packed with his research and 93 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: condemnations of Mother Teresa for years he spent his spare 94 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: time researching the lady, as he often calls her, whatever 95 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: you call it, crusade against the lady. Well, maybe to start, 96 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: I wonder, could you just if you had to summarize 97 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: your overall case or perspective on Mother Teresa, what would 98 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: you say? I considered the whole Mother Teresa bandwagon as 99 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: a cult um. I would say that practically everything about 100 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: Mother Teresa is a result of myth and hyperbolic But 101 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: what fired him up in the first place? A roop 102 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: chatter Gee grew up in Calkatta in the nineteen seventies. 103 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: He was a medical student, and back then he had 104 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: a very different person backtive on Mother Teresa. When I 105 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: used to go to medical school on my moped every 106 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: day in Calcata, I used to pass by one of 107 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: her places and I used to see about forty people 108 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: being fed, and I would be quite thankful and happy 109 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: that somebody was feeding at least forty people in Calcata. 110 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: Even in her head day, not much was known about her. 111 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: It was known that she had won the Nobel Prize 112 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: and that she was a very good, charitable lady. So 113 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: I had absolutely nothing against her. If anything, I was 114 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: positive towards her. Then he moved to the UK. One 115 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: day a co worker asked him where he was from. 116 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: He said Calcutta, and then he said, oh, Calcata. Do 117 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,559 Speaker 1: you know something. There's one person in the whole world 118 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: I respect more than anybody else. That's Mother Teresa. And 119 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: I was I was quite surprised. I said, why this is? 120 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: Why did she mention Mother Teresa When I said I 121 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: was from Carcasa. That incident stuck to my mind, like yesterday, 122 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: I just I didn't know that people synonymized Calcata with 123 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: Mother Teresa. After that, he started noticing how his home 124 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: city was viewed by the Western world. I read little 125 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: things about Calcutta in a very gruesome way, and it's 126 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: all about poverty and leprosy and squala, nothing at all 127 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: about anything else. I recently came across a video where 128 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: a bishop in Los Angeles describes Calcutta like this, Imagine 129 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: the worst garbage jump you've seen, and now think of 130 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: the whole city that way. Reports like this didn't match 131 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: the Calcutta chatter. Je new a thriving metropolist, a cultural hub. 132 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: So when he was on a trip to Calcutta. He 133 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: visited the Home for the Dying, the place he'd heard 134 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: described as an oasis for the poor, and I was 135 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: appolled that that place had given us so much publicity 136 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: and it was even called a hospice. It had less 137 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: than one places, and they didn't have any beds, even 138 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: they had hammocks. There was no yards, no veranda, no balcony, 139 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: no nothing nowhere to stretch your limbs. You were brutally 140 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: treated in there. Chatterjee says he was even more shocked 141 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: by the medical practices he saw. They routinely used to 142 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: re use needles and gloves. Even that practice has stopped now. 143 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: It was a harsh place. I think it's a harsh place. 144 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: Collet Livermore was with the Missionaries of Charity for eleven years. 145 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: She's the Australian sister who wasn't allowed to go home 146 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: when her brother was very ill. After she left the 147 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: m CS, she became a physician, but back in night 148 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: she was assigned to the Home for the Dying. Collett 149 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: fed intended to patients. There, she cleaned maggots from wounds 150 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: and watched the bodies of people who died. One patient 151 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: died in her arms. The standard medicine wouldn't have been high. 152 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: And the thing I found difficult was there was no 153 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: pain killers. She says. The sisters were often rough and cold. 154 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: When people who had been on the street arrived at 155 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: the home, the sisters would strip off their clothes right 156 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 1: there in the room. They were all washed in a 157 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: cement washing place with no privacy and just cold water 158 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: thrown over them. Clutz as they often cried out when 159 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: the cold water hit their skin while some visitor with 160 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: a camera might be snapping photos. Their hair was shaved, 161 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: and I mean, I know they had lice and all 162 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, but I don't know. I found 163 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: it very harsh. She says. Sometimes sisters even got aggressive, 164 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: acting harshly to someone or hitting them or when did 165 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: you see sisters head people in Calcutta? You know? And 166 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: I understand that it's very frustrating because you know, if 167 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: you've got desperate people trying to get things food and such, 168 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: they'll be pushing. Clatt couldn't get over the feeling that 169 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 1: things could be so much better, and it wasn't the 170 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: first time she felt that way. As a teenager, Collet 171 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: Livermore Plants to study medicine but then she watched Something 172 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: Beautiful for God, and I saw that movie and I thought, 173 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: I don't need to bother being a doctor anymore because 174 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: they don't need complicated medicine, they just need food. Clud 175 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: joined the m CS, and it didn't take long for 176 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: her to have misgivings about their medical care, including the 177 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: care for sisters. In seven, she was assigned to a 178 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 1: house in Papua New Guinea. She was twenty two. Before 179 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: she left, She says no one suggested she take medication 180 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: to prevent malaria, usually taken too weeks before travel. When 181 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: she arrived, she says she saw griefstones of nuns who 182 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: had died from malaria, so as soon as she had 183 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: a chance, she talked to mother Teresa about it. I 184 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 1: asked her, could we take something to prevent malaria? And 185 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: she said I I don't take anything. She trusts in God, 186 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: but I could take it if I wanted to. Collett 187 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: decided to take it, but it was too late. One night, 188 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: she felt incredibly cold, MY teeth were chattering. I had 189 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: a terrible back paint, terrible headache. She didn't go to 190 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: work that day and she wasn't getting any better. I 191 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: was arching my back was arching, My tongue was coming 192 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: out involuntarily, and I could have died. The sisters sent 193 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: for a doctor. He said it was cerebral malaria, which 194 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: is extremely serious. I didn't die. You'll be pleased to hear. 195 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: Another time, Collett was working with tuberculosis patients in the Philippines. 196 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: What she saw startled her. There was a particular mistake 197 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: where a wrong injection was given, and I was horrified 198 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: when I asked a sister, you know how much did 199 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: you give? And they didn't even know what dose it 200 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: had given. Kas in fiction was a problem since patients 201 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: were mixed together in close quarters collect things. A lot 202 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 1: of these mistakes stem from this empty belief that the 203 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,239 Speaker 1: sisters shouldn't have too much expertise. Expertise is an opportunity 204 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: for pride, and Mother Teresa believed ignorance was actually an 205 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: advantage because you're a vessel for God's will. It was 206 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: a sort of form of magical thinking. If you obey 207 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: God's will be done through you in some sort of 208 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: magical way. Mother used to say, it was I'm just 209 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: a pencil in his hands, like an inanimate object. That's 210 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: what they told Half the time. We didn't know where 211 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: we were going, and we were sent away suddenly, so 212 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: there was absolutely no preparation, no language or cultural training. 213 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: The other thing that troubled her was how the vow 214 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: of obedience affected their work. You were supposed to obey cheerfully, promptly, 215 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: and without question, but what if you saw injustice or 216 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: medical mistakes? Do you speak up? Then one day in 217 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: Manila sticks out to her. The sisters had what they 218 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: called a Tohanan home for people who had tuberculosis and 219 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: other illnesses, and so a little boy came with his parents, 220 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: and his name was Alex, and he was very sick, 221 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: dehydrated and malnourished, with a fever and sepsis. His skin 222 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: was floppy and his eyes were sunken. They weren't supposed 223 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: to accept people on Thursdays, but Collette, who was Sister 224 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: Tobitt back then, spoke with the parents any way, and 225 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: the professor sister came out in a boiling rage, saying Tobert, 226 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: what are you doing here? I said, well, this little 227 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: boy is very ill and he's been rejected by the 228 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: hospital and we need to help him. And she said, so, 229 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: only you know what's right. And I said, look, I 230 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: don't really know what's right, but I just know that 231 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: this little child is going to die if we don't 232 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: do something. And she said, go back to the dahana 233 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: and I said, no, I hope I won't. And she said, 234 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: I will help him this time, but you do what 235 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: you're told and go back to the so collect dead 236 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: and the child was admitted. They put him on a 237 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: drop with antibiotics and fluids. That night, she snuck over 238 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: to see how he was. I remember carrying him outside 239 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: into the night and just sort of saying, why, why 240 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: you know too the blackness. Next day he was much 241 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: much better. Yeah, he survived. He became a fat little thing. 242 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: In fact, Collett's intervention wouldn't go unnoticed. About a month later, 243 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: she says, she walked into the dormitory and her bedrole 244 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,359 Speaker 1: was gone. Someone had removed it, no warning, no explanation. 245 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: She had been demoted from her post as a novice mistress. 246 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: She says the conflict she felt inside her pierced through 247 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: her life like a thorn. Mother Teresa wrote a letter 248 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: in seven As usual, there was one thing on her mind. 249 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: She said, during the year, very often, I have been 250 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: longing to be all for Jesus and to make other souls, 251 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: especially Indian come and love him fervently. Bringing souls to 252 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: Jesus sounds a lot like conversion to me, and Mother 253 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: Teresa used the word conversion in some of her letters. 254 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: According to Father Brian Colodetuch, who edited her letters for publication, 255 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: she said, yes, I convert. I convert you to be 256 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: a better Hindu, or a better Muslim, or a better Protestant, 257 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: or a better Catholic, or a better Parsi, or a 258 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: better seek or a better Buddhist. And after you have 259 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: found God, it is for you to do what God 260 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: wants you to do. When I first joined the energy 261 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: and the spirit of the society, it was extremely powerful. 262 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: It was never about converting people. But that didn't last. 263 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: Sue Weber says, she's a former m C who was 264 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: a sure year in the early The longer I stayed 265 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: in the order, it started to be about converting people. 266 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: It became more about how many people did you convert. 267 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: I heard from many, many people that this was happening 268 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: on a large scale, that they were converting surreptitiously at 269 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: the point of death. In his book, A Root Strategy 270 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: tells the story of one former sister who says sisters 271 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: were trained to ask a dying person if they wanted 272 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: a ticket to heaven, and if they agreed to press 273 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: the wet cloths to their forehead and quietly baptize them. 274 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: But Run has died. The ticket wasn't bitterly called because 275 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: Ticus and Peter will not let them go in they 276 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: called baptism tickets. Was This is Mother Teresa speaking at 277 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: a clinic in California. We asked a person, do you Runs, 278 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: Do you want a blessing by which your scenes will 279 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: be forgiven and you will receive God? And they have 280 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: never really used. So twenty nine have died in that 281 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: one house from the time we began to buck in 282 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: two and they were collecting the numbers because you get 283 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: brownie points if you convert, because it is so beautiful 284 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: to see the people die. It's so much choi And 285 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: it's actually pretty lowly thing to do to take advantage 286 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: of somebody's alternate mental state and to exploit them like that. 287 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: Maybe the most repeated critique of Mother Teresa is that 288 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: you romanticized poverty. Christopher Hedges put it this way, that 289 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: Mother Teresa was not a friend of the poor. She 290 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: was a friend of poverty. S Antony Chaco Party, a 291 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: professor of history at the University of Calcutta, says westerners 292 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: ate her story up. I think the Western fascination with 293 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: her was because she was using the Indian sardi as 294 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: a projection of her glorification of poverty. The Saudi clad 295 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: women on the streets of Calcutta, working among among destitute 296 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: people living on the streets. I think that fascinated a 297 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: lot of Western people, trying to project India as a somewhat, 298 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: you know, a place like Mars. Almost the Roop Charity 299 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: put it a little more strongly. The West felt so 300 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: smug and so glad that this white woman who's a Catholic, 301 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: very very rigid Catholic, who was looking after this disgusting, 302 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: desperate people in a remote corner of the world. The 303 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: Western interest in Mother Teresa's work led to a lot 304 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: of donations. Some report tens of millions of dollars a year, 305 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: but the exact amount is unclear. The m c s 306 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: don't reveal their financial information, including to us we asked. 307 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: When one Forbes India reporter asked how much they received 308 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: in donations, he was told God knows he is our banker. 309 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: We have a lot of money, a lot. This is 310 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: Sue Webber again. When she became a superior at the 311 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: AIDS Hospice in San Francisco, she got a checkbook for 312 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: the first time, but she says she couldn't really use it. 313 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: I had to go through so many channels to get 314 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: like a refrigerator, a small refrigerator to put the men's 315 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: medicine in. Mm hmm. I had. I had access to 316 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: an account that had over million dollars in it, and 317 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: I couldn't buy a refrigerator. As the superior of the house. 318 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: Collet Livermore, the former sister from Australia, put it this way. 319 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: We had plenty of money, but in the name of poverty, 320 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: we didn't want to use it. Instead, they begged. That's 321 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: what the sisters called it, begging. They begged or donated supplies, 322 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: whether food or medicine or clothes. Mother trees. I believed 323 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: it was a chance for the donor to come closer 324 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: to Christ. So I was told with another sister to 325 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: go look at vehicles. So he remembers when she was 326 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: in the Bronx and they needed a new car. So 327 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: we get there and we look at different vehicles and 328 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: there's a small jeep. So I called the house and 329 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: I said to the regional superior, so we found the 330 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: vehicle and this is how much it costs. Can we 331 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: go ahead and purchase it? And she goes, no, you 332 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: should beg for it, and I was like what, and 333 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: I said, I'm not begging for it. I said, we 334 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: have the money. And I would have never had a 335 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: problem at all to beg for anything if we didn't 336 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: have it. By begging for it, it's basically, um, it's 337 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: a lie because you're basically presenting that you need something 338 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 1: and you don't have the wherewithal to get it, right, 339 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: that's a lie. So you refused to beg for it, 340 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: but you usually had to obey her regional superior. So 341 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: I said, that is exactly why. I said to the guy, 342 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: so I said, hey, I'm just curious, like, would you 343 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,719 Speaker 1: give us that cheap? Would you just give it to us? 344 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: And he was like for free and I was like yeah, 345 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: And he was like, well, don't you have any money, 346 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: and I go, oh, no, we have plenty of money. 347 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: I'm just curious if he would just give it to us, 348 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: and he started laughing and he goes no, and I 349 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: was like, okay. So I called back the regional and 350 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: I was like, they won't give it to us for free, 351 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: and then we ended up buying it. Mother Teresa often 352 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: spoke of suffering, but critics asked how much did you 353 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: do to alleviate it. There's a particular moment in an 354 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: interview on William F. Buckley's Firing Line on PBS, where 355 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: she tells the story of a woman who would cancer. 356 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: The woman wasn't terrible pain, but Mother Teresa told her 357 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 1: that the pain was a sign that she had come 358 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: so close to Jesus on the cross that he could 359 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: kiss her. And the lady, though she wasn't a great pain, 360 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: she joined their hands together and said, Mother Teresa, please 361 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: tell Jesus to stop kissing me. As Mother Teresa tells 362 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: this story, you can see that she's starting to smile. 363 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: What's weird about this moment to me is hearing people 364 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: laughing in the background after this woman says to Mother Teresa, 365 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: please tell Jesus to stop kissing me. I guess it's 366 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: supposed to be funny, but doesn't it also mean this 367 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: person just wants the pain to stop. The interviewer then says, 368 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: to Mother Teresa, Christ entered his own passion willingly. Most 369 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 1: humans enter unwillingly into pain. Mother Teresa replies that he'd 370 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 1: be surprised how content that poor people in India are, 371 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: that on their suffering faces you see a beautiful smile. 372 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: That her work is to help them accept suffering as 373 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: a gift. Mother Teresa knew the power of a good story, 374 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: repeated anecdotes until they were parables, and she had a 375 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: way journalists. One expert said it was like she cast 376 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: a spell on them. She may not have enjoyed publicity, 377 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: but she saw the value in it. She was strategic 378 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: about granting interviews. Sometimes she made agreements that she be 379 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: allowed to review an edit material before it was published. 380 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: Books about her are often full of inaccuracies, more legend 381 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: than fact, and some of the people I talked to 382 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: told me the church was more than happy to benefit 383 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: from that legend. It wasn't only Mother Teresa who knew 384 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: how to use the media. Mary Johnson says the church 385 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: saw its value too, and I do feel that the 386 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: Church used her. I remember I traveled with her once 387 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: to Louisiana, the first place where the abuses of priests 388 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: who were pedophiles had become known. In nineteen eighty five, 389 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: a Louisiana priest admitted to abusing more than thirty children. 390 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: He was eventually sentenced to twenty years in prison. While 391 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: the trial was under way, the Missionaries of Charity opened 392 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: a new house just an hour away in Baton Rouge. 393 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: The sisters had been invited there in order to repair 394 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: the image of the church. If the people of the 395 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: diocese saw Mother Teresa and the sisters, that would be 396 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: the example that could kind of make up for these 397 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: horrible things that the priests had done. It sounds like 398 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: the missionaries of Charity and Mother Teresa sort of became 399 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: a pr tool for the church exactly, a pr tool, 400 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: a symbol um and I do think that's a way 401 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: of using someone. A lot of people wanted to use 402 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: that symbol. After Malcolm Muggridge's films Something Beautiful for God, 403 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: he promoted her like crazy. He saw her potential for 404 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: advancing conservative causes, especially with her stance on abortion. He 405 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: and a number of American politicians advocated for her to 406 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: be given the Nobel Peace Prize, and when she was 407 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: abortion was at the center of her acceptance speech, and 408 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: I feel one thing I want to share the two 409 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: on the greatest destroyer of peace today is the pride 410 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: of the innocent unborn child. If a mother and murder 411 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: her own child in her own room, what is left 412 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: for you and for me to kill each other to meet? 413 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: The nations who have legalized abortion, they are the poorest nation. 414 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: Christopher Higgins, the man behind the documentary Hell's Angel, he 415 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: sees this speech and much of Mother Teresa's work as 416 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: part of a larger, unstated political agenda to advance the 417 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: goals of the church. If you can give women control 418 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: over the rat reproduction and come back to that village 419 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: in ten years time, everything will be better right away. 420 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: It's the only thing that works well. Mother Reasons spent 421 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: her entire life saying that that solution was impermissible. She 422 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: waged her entire life making sure that didn't happen. So 423 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: I wish there was a hell to which she could go, 424 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: because she has a lot of death on the conscience, 425 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: and a lot of misery and stupidity and ignorance and 426 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: dirt and filth and disease as well. It just strikes 427 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: me again and again, how polarize these camps are. It's 428 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: like you either love her or you hate her. The 429 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: image of Mother Teresa that I had encountered out in 430 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: the world wasn't anything like the woman I had known. 431 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,959 Speaker 1: Here's Mary Johnson. Either. There were people who made her 432 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: out to be this complete holy saint and said all 433 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: kinds of silly things like every morning she had only 434 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: a banana for breakfast and she you know, just these 435 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: apocryphal stories that were absurd, or there were people who 436 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: were very, very critical, and not that there weren't things 437 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: to be critical about, but who didn't really understand where 438 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: Mother Troops was coming from at all, unattributed motives to 439 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: her that were not at all her motives. I just 440 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: think if we're going to talk ship, we should talk 441 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: the right ship, right. Kelly Dunham was a sister with 442 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: the m CS in the nine nineties. She's heard the 443 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: criticisms I just laid out and has plenty of her own. 444 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: She calls the MCS problematic, But on the day Mother 445 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: Teresa was made a saint, Kelly posted a YouTube video 446 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: critiquing the critiques. People complain about Mother Teresa is that 447 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: she urged people to accept her suffering, to say you 448 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: to offer it up, and also said that suffering is 449 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: Jesus kissing. Now, Okay, So on the macro, if somebody 450 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: is suffering and it's caused by somebody else's actions, especially 451 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: a powerful person, and you tell them to accept it, 452 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: you're obviously contributing to a system of oppression and we 453 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: should fight like hell against that. But on the micro 454 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: and this is always what people are talking about, helping 455 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: somebody who's dying to find meaning in their suffering or 456 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: their death. Who are you to say, like that's not like, 457 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: that's not cool, but that's not good to offer them 458 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: like you the non dying person. They could not alleviate 459 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: all the poverty of Calcutta, and the focus is on 460 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: the poorest of the poor, not the poor. Father Brian Colladach, 461 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: the head of the EMC Fathers, says that the quality 462 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: of medical care and EMCY houses has improved over time, 463 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: but also that's not the point you have to understand. 464 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: For example, the Home for the Dying in its context, 465 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: it was set up not to be a clinic to 466 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: give medical care. It was set up to exactly what 467 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: it's at home for the dying, the ones who are dying, 468 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: so that last moments to to have some relief, some care, 469 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: some human love. At Mother Teresa's funeral, a cardinal put 470 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: it this way, He said, Mother Teresa was aware of 471 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: this criticism. She would shrug as if saying, while you 472 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: go on discussing causes and explanations, I will kneel beside 473 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: the forest of the poor and attend to their needs. 474 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: After Mother Teresa died, her supporters jump started the complicated 475 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: process of advocating for her sainthood, the process that typically 476 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: starts five years after somebody dies. The Archbishop of Calcutta 477 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: went to the Department of Congregation for Saints and asked 478 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: if you could start already, And he said, hey, wait 479 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: a minute, she only died a month ago. Hold your horses. 480 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: But Father Brian Colladatrix says soon, Pope John Paul the 481 00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: second wait to the waiting period. Father Brian was the 482 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: official postulator, basically the advocate for her canonization, and her 483 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: fiercest critics a Roop chatter Ge and Christopher Higgens. They 484 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: both testified they gave the official critical perspective for the 485 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: canonization process, a type of role previously known in the 486 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: Catholic Church as the advocati diaboli or devil's advocate. That's 487 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: actually where the term comes from. As part of the 488 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: canonization process, the Church needed to attribute two miracles to 489 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: Mother Teresa that happened after her death. This is proof 490 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: that she's interceding from heaven, reports poured in the church 491 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: research The claims had eventually approved two miracles. They declared 492 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: she cured a Bengali woman's stomach tumor and saved a 493 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: Brazilian man in a coma. Almost twenty years after Mother 494 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: Teresa's death, a crowd packed St. Peter Square in Vatican 495 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: City for her canonization. A massive portrait of Mother Teresa 496 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: overlooked the proceedings from in front of St. Peter's Basilica, 497 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: and a million tiny copies of the painting were passed 498 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: out at the event. During the ceremony, two m C 499 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: sisters carried in a relic a vial of Mother Teresa's blood, 500 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: and Tolpe Francis, the head of the Catholic Church, said 501 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: the words to proclaim her new status, we declare and 502 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: define Blessed Teresa of Calcutta to be a saint. On 503 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: her tomb in the Mother House, they engraved the words 504 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: love one another, as I have loved you. Next time 505 00:33:55,280 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: on The Turning, all of a sudden, Niobe's next to me, 506 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: and she's whispering in my ear, Sister, do not I 507 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:52,959 Speaker 1: love you? The Turning is written by Allen Lance Lesser 508 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 1: and Me. Our producers are Allen Lance Lesser and Emily Foreman. 509 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,760 Speaker 1: Our editor is Rob Rosenthal Andrea Swahe is our digital 510 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,919 Speaker 1: p Sir. Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. Special links 511 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: to Dennis Wills of d G Will's Books, Terrik Ali, 512 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 1: Amy Gains, Sarah oh Lander, Catherine Joyce, Bethan Macaluso, Travis Dunlap, 513 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: and consulting producer Mary Johnson. Her memoir and Unquenchable Thirst 514 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: provided inspiration for this series. Our executive producers are Jessica 515 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 1: Alpert and John Parotti from Rococo Punch and Katrina Norville 516 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: from My Heart Radio. Our theme music is by Matt Reid. 517 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: For photos and more details on the series, follow us 518 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Rococo Punch. You can reach out via 519 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: email to The Turning at Rocco Punch dot com I 520 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: America Lance Thanks for listening.