1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Conversation with David Drucker of the Washington Examineries, the senior 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: political correspondent, that fine publications being a fine publications. David's 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: the author of In Trump's Shadow, The Battle for and 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: the Future of the GOP. David, how are you, sir? 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: I'm great, terrific. Oh yeah, absolutely, it's good to talk 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: to you. So, Uh, speaking of In Trump's Shadow and 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: and the state of the GOP, I actually want to 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: take a look, if you will, at both parties and 9 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: the conflicts of the divisions therein. But we can start 10 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: on the Republican side. I mean Liz Cheney Adam Kingsinger 11 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: of Illinois, recently centured by the r n C. Mitch 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 1: McConnell shoots back that that's idiotic and useless and divisive 13 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: and and the rest of it. Uh, what's the what's 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: the state of the Republican Party at this point from 15 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: your perch there in the Capitol. Well, it depends on 16 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: how you want to look at the party. I mean, 17 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: the party is on track for uh big games in 18 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: mental elections. Um, I think they're they're on track to 19 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: win control of the House and Senate and possibly by 20 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: big margins. So when you want to look at win 21 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: loss and judge a parties political viability that way, which 22 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: seems to make sense to most people. Uh. You know, 23 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: they're they're in pretty good shape. Um. When you look 24 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: at the evolving nature of the Republican Party, when you 25 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: look at the party in long term, there are some 26 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: more uncertainties out there. Obviously, the party continues to realign somewhat, 27 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: and you have this ongoing battle between the traditional conservatives 28 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: and the conservative populace in the party. I think former 29 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: President Donald Trump's fixation on the elections long term is 30 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: not helpful to the party. Um. And those could have 31 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: consequences in four especially if Republicans do well in two, 32 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: there are all of a sudden and this is the 33 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: problem you want, of course, that you're gonna they're gonna 34 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: share responsibility for governing. Um. We've seen past Democratic presidents 35 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: get repudiated midj terms and then recover in their re 36 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: election bids. Uh. And we've seen Republicans suffer in mid 37 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: terms in presidential or midterm elections and then recover two 38 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: years later. So Uh, it's by every measure that matters. 39 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: In the moment, Republicans are doing very well. Their fundraising 40 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 1: is up. Uh. Their political organization is doing well when 41 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: you look at some of these longer term trends, whether 42 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: the party is getting along, whether they're willing to cooperate 43 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: with each other to form a majority coalition in a 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: national election. Death still remains to be seen. And it 45 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: is a concern among some Republicans. I talked to you, 46 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: and I think they're right to be concerned about it. 47 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: But this is not an either or scenario, nor is 48 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: it remotely all dumid globe. You know, I'm ambivalent about 49 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff. Is a conservative um, I 50 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: just you know, I mixed feelings on a lot of it. 51 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: But what do you think of this? Notion? That? And 52 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: and well Trump's fixation election, I think he's making him 53 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: less relevant going forward. If if Trump were focused hard, 54 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: focused on inflation, the border, people's living conditions, you know, 55 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: dinner table issues, um, and not obsessing over election, his 56 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: shadow would be looming even more over the Republican Party. 57 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: His influence I think would have grown. Well. You know, 58 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: when I asked Trump about this, when I interviewed him 59 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: last year for in Trump Shadow, and I asked him 60 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: if he thought his his you know, decision to constantly 61 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: beat the Bush about the you know what he thinks 62 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: happened in I said, you know, doesn't it make it 63 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: harder for your party to win control of the House 64 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: and Senate in mid grom elections? And this was before 65 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: president by approval numbers had dropped and things looked so 66 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: good for Republicans And he said, yeah, maybe so, but 67 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: I don't really care. And then he also said, well, 68 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: I think this will help energize our face because that's 69 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: what they're interested in. So you were is a really 70 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: good question. What I would say about this is that 71 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: there are a number of Republican primaries in big states 72 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: and Senate races, never mind House races, and some governors 73 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: races where they all where they agree with Trump, these 74 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: primary candidates and won't say otherwise, and maybe they secretly 75 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: disagree with them but refused to say it. And if 76 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 1: you end up with nominees and some of these key 77 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: races with candidates who also want to talk about, you know, 78 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: an election beat stolen despite um an incredible lack of 79 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: evidence to that effect, then this issue is not going 80 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: to go away. Now in many of these states, I 81 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: still think the Republican nominee wins anyway. I mean, I 82 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: tend to think that whoever wins Ohio and just about 83 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: all of them say Trump's right, the election was stolen. 84 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: The nominee in the Ohio Senate race is gonna win. 85 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: The nominee in the North Carolina Senate race is likely 86 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: to win. The nominee in the Pennsylvania Senate races likely 87 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: to win. So it's not going to hurt in the 88 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: near term, but it is going to keep alive this 89 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: notion in the party um that Trump is right. And 90 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: then of course you have voters who want to focus 91 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: on the future. Given how the nature of how much 92 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: trouble the Democrats are in, and given it they're in 93 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: charge in Washington, I don't think this kind of this 94 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: kind of conversation is going to hurt Republicans were the party. 95 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: I think they're still given the Democrats super thin margins 96 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: in the House and Senate and everything else, Republicans are 97 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: still likely to have a really good election, which of 98 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: course is going to make some things that that there's 99 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: no problem in talking about a stolen election that wasn't stolen. 100 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: And and that's why I say it possibly becomes a 101 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: problem in David Drucker of the Washington Examiner on the line, 102 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: one more question about the Republicans before we moved across 103 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: the aisle. Uh. It seems to us that there are 104 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: a lot of really interesting and encouraging trends for the 105 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: Republican Party. Uh. More folks of color, more working class 106 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: people are moving the Republican way, and it feels like 107 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: the Democrats are becoming the party of the suburban, social 108 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: degree holding elites of America. To what extent is that true, Well, 109 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: it's I think that the signs are there that this 110 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: is happening. Before I make b linket predictions, I like 111 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: to see how things play out over time. But we 112 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: have seen Republicans make games with Hispanic voters. For instance, 113 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: Donald Trump won Um, a county along the Mexican border 114 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: in Texas that Republicans had not captured in a presidential 115 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: race in a hundred years. And I think what this 116 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: trend is about is as the Republican Party, at least 117 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: for the time being, becomes more of a working class 118 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: party where more of its voters tend to be blue 119 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: collar um workers. Well, there are lots of Hispanics and 120 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: lots of voters that are not white that are a 121 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: part of the working class that had long seen the 122 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: Democrats as the party of the working class and now 123 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: believe that the Republicans are the party of the working class, 124 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: both from an economic standpoint and from a cultural standpoint. 125 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: And by the same token, we have seen some suburban 126 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: voters UM and we've seen some evidence of this, some 127 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: sort of white collar suburban voters of both of you know, 128 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: both of of all races, but but you know, particularly 129 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: these white suburban, white collar UM workers who had long 130 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: voted Republican finding more cultural affinity with the Democrats. So 131 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: we've seen some of this realignments. All of these things 132 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: are sort of dependent on who the next Republican nominee 133 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: is twenty four, what kind of coalition they're able to cement, 134 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: what the economic and geopolitical conditions in the country and 135 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: the world are, and how you know, the two nominees 136 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: position their parties in that contest. But the size are 137 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: definitely there that this is beginning to happen um, and 138 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: so it'll be interesting to see what happens, not so 139 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: much in midterm elections, because we've seen non white voters 140 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: flocked to Republicans and greater degree in mid term elections 141 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: with Democrats trouble. But how But but it will be 142 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: more interesting to see if we see a continuation of 143 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: what we saw in twenty happen again in four Okay, 144 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: we just have a couple of minutes left. But one 145 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: of the thing we've talked about a lot around here 146 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: is to what extent do you think the Democratic Party 147 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: is being led by the woke energy on Twitter and 148 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: among congressional staffers, and Twitter is not America, to what 149 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: extent do you think they're being you know, the dog 150 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party is being wagged by the tail or? 151 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: Or does the woke left have that much haft? Well, look, 152 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: I think I think there is some validity to this. 153 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: Both parties, as polarization has increased over the past two decades, 154 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: have been led or influenced more by their base of 155 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: committed voters. Right. You know, we've seen in covering the 156 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: Republican Party over twenty years the influence that the Republican 157 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: base often has. These the committed conservatives often have in 158 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: in in the party, in part because in house races, 159 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: where most districts are drawn to elect one or the 160 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: other party, it's the primary that really counts. And if 161 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: you don't play to your primary audience, you don't get 162 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: to the general election where you're going to win easily. 163 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: And so I think that what we're seeing in the 164 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: Democratic Party now is something we have seen four years 165 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: in the Republican Party, and they are being influenced to 166 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: a huge degree by the far left flank of their party. 167 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: And I think we've seen this most notably when it 168 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: comes to pandemic policy coming out of the White House. No, 169 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: Joe Biden can't win in this regard, UH. In Republicans certainly, 170 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: but even but especially Independence really want to shift to 171 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: a posture of policy on the pandemic that that recognizes 172 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: or believes that the coronavirus is just not going anywhere, 173 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: uh for the foreseeable future, and and get us back 174 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: to a normal footing, just doing living like we did 175 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: before in the pandemic, but taking you know, precautions as 176 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: they are necessary. Left point and the Democratic base of 177 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party doesn't mean Joe Biden's doing enough to 178 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: protect against the coronavirus. They want stricter mandates on vaccines, 179 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: more mandates on vacate scenes, stricter and more mandates on 180 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: mask wearing and and the like. And that belief on 181 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: the far left length of the party is influencing how 182 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: many Democrats in Washington at least are reacting to the pandemic, 183 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: but politically and from a policy standpoint, and it's far 184 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: different than what you're seeing from center left Democrats and 185 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: independence who may tend to vote Democrat. And we've seen, 186 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: you know, the Democratic governors around the country are starting 187 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: to react to the broader number of Democratic voters in 188 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: their states rather than the most committed liberals. But it 189 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: is definitely having an impact. And you're right when you 190 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: point out that Twitter is not real life needed on 191 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: the right or the less, and when politicians cater to Twitter, 192 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: they end up in trouble with a broader number of 193 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: voters they need to win re election. Well, and your 194 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: point about the COVID policy is a great one and 195 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 1: such a such a strange chapter of American history we're 196 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: all living through. I'd like to write the book Culture 197 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: and COVID if I only had the time. But um, 198 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: let's remember Glenn Youcan is the governor of Virginia. Not 199 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: so much because the critical race theory stuff that got 200 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: so much attention, purely because he ran on get the 201 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: kids back in school. The kids need to be in school, 202 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: and that hardcore left flank of the Democratic Party is 203 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: just have four year olds and masks and and send 204 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: everybody home the minute anybody gets COVID and uh, that 205 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: is just absolute electoral poison. I think to an extent 206 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: that the mainstream media does not adequately reflect. But David 207 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: Drucker of The Washington Examiner, David, I wish we could 208 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: talk all day, but I'm afraid we're up against a break. 209 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: But it's to talk to you. Good luck with the 210 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: book in Trump's Shadow, The Battle for four in the 211 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: Future of the GOP. Thanks David, thanks so much. Good 212 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 1: to talk