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Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. My wife says, I've got

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Speaker 1: a lot of useless information in my brain, and she

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily say that in a disparaging manner. Particularly it

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Speaker 1: comes in handy when we go to do trivia and

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Speaker 1: there's something I enjoy and I love to read, and

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Speaker 1: particularly I love to read about history. I'm thinking we

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Speaker 1: have just had coronation or the Brits have as I'm

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Speaker 1: laying the sound down right now, and I believe it's

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Speaker 1: King Charles the Third, if I'm not mistaken. And here's

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Speaker 1: the thing about it, there's another king of England that

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Speaker 1: I find far more fascinating. He came along in a

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Speaker 1: very crucial period when there was great turmoil in Great

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Speaker 1: Britain over religion. His name was Charles the First. I've

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Speaker 1: been fascinated by him because he didn't seem like necessarily

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Speaker 1: a brutal dictator or anything. But he died very brutally.

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Speaker 1: He was actually publicly executed, and when he was executed,

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Speaker 1: he died as a result of an executioner wielding a

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Speaker 1: large bladed instrument over his head. It hung in the

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Speaker 1: air for a moment and it fell upon his neck

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Speaker 1: and separated his head from his shoulders. Today, on body Bags,

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Speaker 1: I'm actually going to chat about a cause of death

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Speaker 1: that to this point I have yet to address, and

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Speaker 1: that is a homicide by means of decapitation. Today we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the homicide of America Theayre out

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Speaker 1: of Minnesota. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Bags.

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Speaker 1: My buddy Dave Max joining me right now. Dave, how

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Speaker 1: you doing? Man?

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Speaker 2: So far, so good. A little curious as to why

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Speaker 2: we're going to.

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Speaker 1: Do this story though, Oh yeah, why was that? Well?

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Speaker 2: All right, there's a whole lot to it. And when

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Speaker 2: I say there's a whole lot to it, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of background. But when you come right down to

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Speaker 2: the body bags portion of it, I'm asking this because

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Speaker 2: I don't know, Joe, but is this one where you

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Speaker 2: have to use two bags? And I'm not being funny?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, people have asked me that.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: I've had cases, generally involving blast trauma, airplane crashes every

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Speaker 1: now and then a car crash where I've had to

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Speaker 1: use bags plural in order to facilitate collection of remains.

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Speaker 1: But most of the time those remains and I remember

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Speaker 1: one plane crash in particular that had multiple victims, where

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Speaker 1: we had these bodies that were just so devastated. We

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Speaker 1: at the time we couldn't say, well, in the field,

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Speaker 1: we couldn't say well, this arm belongs with this body

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Speaker 1: because they were so mangled, and so we would just

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Speaker 1: organize the anatomic elements as best we could and then

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Speaker 1: take these items back to the Morgan try to marry

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Speaker 1: them up accordingly. I've had traumatic decapitations. Most of the

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Speaker 1: time these are involving motor vehicle accident. There's that classic

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Speaker 1: scene I think it's the movie which one is it?

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Speaker 1: The Omen? The Original Omen, where you have the photographer

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Speaker 1: that is decapitated by a piece of glass. I've had

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Speaker 1: motor vehicle accidents where you have something that will pass

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Speaker 1: through a windshield because you have a victim that's in

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Speaker 1: a static position okay, they're driving a vehicle, that they're

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Speaker 1: seated in a vehicle, their head is literally separated from

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Speaker 1: their body. I don't recall ever working a homicie where

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Speaker 1: the cause of death has been listed as a decapitation.

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Speaker 1: It just kind of sets this apart. I think in

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Speaker 1: all of the cases that we've discussed on body bags.

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Speaker 2: We actually are dealing with a domestic violence situation, Joe.

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Speaker 2: The end result is part of the story and it's

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Speaker 2: why we're doing this. But the reality is this is

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Speaker 2: a domestic violence story that dated back several years. The

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Speaker 2: couple have been dating for seven years, and in that

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Speaker 2: time period they'd had multiple run ins with police because

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Speaker 2: America Thayer was in trouble with her boyfriend for whatever reason.

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Speaker 2: And as a matter of fact, on the day that

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Speaker 2: this took place, they were on their way to court

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Speaker 2: America Thayer's boyfriend they had an argument. Don on one

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Speaker 2: was called. The police show up and there was a

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Speaker 2: standoff at their apartment and so he set their apartment

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Speaker 2: on fire to try to get the cops to leave.

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Speaker 2: And that was a domestic violence situation that kept it

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Speaker 2: was going out of control. That's actually why they were

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Speaker 2: headed to court that day when all this happened. So

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Speaker 2: we have several different police interactions with this couple and

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Speaker 2: with America they are being oh, and I don't want

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Speaker 2: to say typical because that's so wrong, but she was

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Speaker 2: the battered spouse. Even after all of the different things

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Speaker 2: went on with police, America there wrote the court a

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Speaker 2: handwritten letter asking them to get rid of a no

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Speaker 2: contact order because her boyfriend, slash abuser, didn't speak English,

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Speaker 2: he was from Cuba and he needed her to help him.

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Speaker 2: That no contact order was put in place so he

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Speaker 2: couldn't get near enough to hurt her. And she wrote

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Speaker 2: the personalized, handwritten letter to the court asking that the

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Speaker 2: no contact order be removed, and it.

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Speaker 1: Was Yeah, And it goes on for so long, and

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Speaker 1: we hear so many of these cases. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: just a little aside, I've seen the end result over

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Speaker 1: the course of my career. What happens when these cases

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Speaker 1: gone for a protracted period of time. And I know

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Speaker 1: our friend Nancy Gray, she has a real special place

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Speaker 1: in her heart for victims of domestic violence. And while

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Speaker 1: I've got everybody's attention, there is actually a National Domestic

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Speaker 1: Violence hotline and that number is one eight hundred and

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Speaker 1: seven ninety nine seven two three three, or you can

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Speaker 1: go to their website, which is just simply thehotline dot org.

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Speaker 1: And if you or any of your friends are suffering

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Speaker 1: in a situation like this, you know, check them out

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Speaker 1: and see if they can come up with some resources

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Speaker 1: for you. But in this case, this has gone on David,

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Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, for at least a decade, perhaps

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Speaker 1: a little bit more, and you've got this comfort level

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Speaker 1: of escalation. You allow that old say in give them

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Speaker 1: an inch, to take a mile, give them a rope,

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Speaker 1: they think they're cowboy, and it just continues to replicate

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Speaker 1: or increase in intensity this sort of thing. And what's

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Speaker 1: really sad about America is that we find she was

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Speaker 1: well loved. She actually worked for my pillow company up

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Speaker 1: in Minnesota. Her coworkers were just absolutely heartbroken and when

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Speaker 1: they found out about this case, because the level, I

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Speaker 1: think the level of violence in this particular case is

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Speaker 1: so over the top that it's hard for people to comprehend.

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Speaker 1: Firearms and those sorts of things are difficult as well.

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Speaker 1: But when you start to talk about decapitation, most of

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Speaker 1: the time, when you and I have a discussion on

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Speaker 1: body bags, about decapitation, it's an adjunct to dismemberment. We've

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Speaker 1: covered ki. It seems like we've been watching dismemberment cases

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Speaker 1: for some reason, just in the recent months, where people

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Speaker 1: are trying to take a part of body in order

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Speaker 1: to dispose it. That's not the case here. This case

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Speaker 1: actually centers around America being not in a private spot,

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Speaker 1: just keep this in mind, but in a very public

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Speaker 1: location where she was decapitated in front of witnesses. I'd

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Speaker 1: mentioned early on about Charles the First He was publicly beheaded,

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Speaker 1: and this is something that has gone on for thousands

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Speaker 1: of years as a form of execution. You know, the

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Speaker 1: French allegedly perfected the process of decapitation vis a vis

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Speaker 1: the guillotine, and they had actually had well their last

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Speaker 1: I think public guillotining had taken place, like back in

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Speaker 1: the twenties. I remember, for some reasons seeing a still

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Speaker 1: image of this event having taken place, and I've seen

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Speaker 1: images of the fellow's body, and that was the last

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Speaker 1: public one, and I think that they were still using

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Speaker 1: the methodology. I think their last one was either like

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Speaker 1: in seventy six or seventy seven, but it was done

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Speaker 1: in a sequestered area, and so it has still continued.

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Speaker 1: There have been a number of public executions around the world,

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Speaker 1: the Middle East country, some of them still use beheading

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Speaker 1: as a way of public execution. When you begin to

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Speaker 1: think about this area that this took place up in Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: it's a rather nice area. Families neighborhood, this sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: and I can't begin to imagine what it would be

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Speaker 1: like to be outside your home and actually have this

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Speaker 1: thing happening before you. It has to be one of

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Speaker 1: those moments like, am I actually You're frozen for a

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Speaker 1: moment and you're thinking, am I actually witnessing this? Is

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Speaker 1: this actually happening? And then your fears are certainly confirmed.

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Speaker 2: I think while this was taking place, there were witnesses.

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Speaker 2: It took place at two thirty in the afternoon, but

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Speaker 2: beyond that, people were videotaping. In this day and age

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Speaker 2: where we all almost all of us have a cell

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Speaker 2: phone that has a camera and the ability to upload

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Speaker 2: things online for whatever reason, to document every aspect of

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Speaker 2: our life instead of helping this situation you have, but

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Speaker 2: you're watching a person who is obviously being beaten. You

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Speaker 2: have a man standing outside a Chrystler three hundred. I

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Speaker 2: believe they're parked in a residential area. I'm looking at

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Speaker 2: a picture of it right now of where this took place,

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Speaker 2: and the man is beating You don't know that the

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Speaker 2: victim is male or female. They're in the front seat

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Speaker 2: of the car, but they're taking a pounding and rather

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Speaker 2: than go to the aid of who is being beaten

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Speaker 2: and try to put a stop to this, pull out

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Speaker 2: your phone and start videotaping. And as this crime takes place,

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Speaker 2: you decide to videotape the entire thing and then upload

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Speaker 2: this for all the world to see. It is the

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Speaker 2: most graphic, gruesome video I've ever seen, And all I

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Speaker 2: could think of, Joe is our we trained monkeys that

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Speaker 2: instead of trying to help, we think about how can

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Speaker 2: I take advantage of this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like it. Sometimes the monsters out among

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Speaker 1: us are not necessarily the ones wielding wielding the weapons,

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Speaker 1: now are they? And the word that comes to mind

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Speaker 1: is interdiction. And it's easy to say, well, you know what,

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Speaker 1: that's something that the police should do. It's old, it's time.

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Speaker 1: You know, people say I don't want to get involved.

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Speaker 1: You wanted to get involved, but you wanted to get

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Speaker 1: involved from a videography standpoint, that's the road that you chose.

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Speaker 1: You were not compelled toward the action. You were not

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Speaker 1: motivated to interdict. And maybe I don't know, they thought

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Speaker 1: that they were going to take a beating if they

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Speaker 1: ran over and interdicted. Instead of videotaping our reactive mind

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Speaker 1: seems to be in neutral, stuck in neutral for some

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Speaker 1: reason because of these things that we carry in our

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Speaker 1: pockets with everywhere, and that we have to push it

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Speaker 1: out there. It's brutal at every level. And I know

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Speaker 1: DA will be very pleased that they have a videotape

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Speaker 1: of this when trial comes about, because this is something

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Speaker 1: you're documenting, an actual homicide. She was. Initially, from my understanding,

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator was standing outside of the door and for

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Speaker 1: some reason he had a dumbbell in his hand. Just

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Speaker 1: imagine this. He had taken the dumbbell and had begun

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Speaker 1: to beat her in the chest with it, apparently, and

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Speaker 1: then there was a head strike. The witnesses said they

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Speaker 1: saw him produce a large knife at that moment time,

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Speaker 1: and I think knife actually translates into machete, and for

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Speaker 1: those that are not familiar with a machete, it's a

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Speaker 1: single edged weapon. It's got a very heavy spine on it.

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Speaker 1: And the reason machetes are built like they are and

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Speaker 1: constructed like they are, they have been used for years

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Speaker 1: and years, particularly I think in the Philippines. Those individuals

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Speaker 1: down there use them as weapons, but they were also

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Speaker 1: used as a farming tool. And do you know specifically

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Speaker 1: what crop they were used with? They famously, I would

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Speaker 1: think sugar cane. Yeah, you're absolutely, you're right on the money. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you know, coming from South Louisiana, they grow a

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Speaker 1: lot of sugar cane down there, and they were used

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Speaker 1: to harvest sugar cane with. So you can take it

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Speaker 1: and the weight of this blade and how it's constructed,

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Speaker 1: and the cutting edge is very long on this thing.

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Speaker 1: It's not the same link that's say, for instance, as

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Speaker 1: a sword, but it's certainly it's bigger than what people

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Speaker 1: might think of a bowie knife. And you can wield

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Speaker 1: it and swing it almost like a bat if you will,

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Speaker 1: and chop with it. So it's a chopping instrument that can.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can put a very fine edge on

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Speaker 1: it and slice right through sugarcane. If anybody has ever

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Speaker 1: had any experience with sugarcane or maybe even bamboo, you

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Speaker 1: know that it's very resilient, it's very tough, and so

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Speaker 1: they had to create this blade in order to facilitate this.

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Speaker 1: Machetes are very popular in the Caribbean as well. Cuba,

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Speaker 1: they grow a lot of sugarcane there, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: they're used worldwide and some people carry them as a

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Speaker 1: defense tool. My father, I even remember sent home when

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Speaker 1: he was in the Philippines, who was in the Marine

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Speaker 1: Corps during the Vietnam Era, and sent home a machete

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Speaker 1: to me as a little boy, and it had a

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Speaker 1: handle that was carved out of what was what I

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Speaker 1: was told was the second hardest wood in the world,

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Speaker 1: in some wood called monkey wood, and it was black

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Speaker 1: the color of the woods, actually black and very resilient,

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Speaker 1: had a brass handle on it.

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Speaker 2: I'm concerned about the area, and not concerned this wrong term.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking about person here, the victim of America in

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Speaker 2: the car. He's already beaten her with the dumbbell, and

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Speaker 2: now he's got the machete and he's going to decapitate her.

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Speaker 2: We already covered this at the beginning, so I'm not

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Speaker 2: throwing out anything you don't already know. But I had

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Speaker 2: to picture how he could get the momentum, the power

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Speaker 2: necessary to swing the machete to be able to decapitate

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Speaker 2: her in the area, provided I.

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Speaker 1: Was singing the same thing, because you know the way

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Speaker 1: the witnesses have described this, and if anybody home I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can do this at home, you know, you just

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Speaker 1: go and visualize with your vehicle. A sedan perhaps doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to be a sedan, but I think this is

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Speaker 1: a Chrysler three hundred, so it's a four door car.

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Speaker 1: If she's positioned in the front seat, the momentum that

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Speaker 1: it would take, the velocity that would have to be

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Speaker 1: generated in a very short stroke, because it would be

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Speaker 1: a short stroke. But you're inhibited because your arm has

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Speaker 1: a certain link to it, and you add this long blade.

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Speaker 1: You couldn't do this in one fail swoop. People would say, well,

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Speaker 1: I have a knife that's so sharp it'll cut through anything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but still you're not just talking about simply cutting a

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Speaker 1: piece of paper here. You're talking about multiple layers of

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Speaker 1: two soft tissue. And then you're talking about going through

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Speaker 1: the spinal proceeds in the back of the neck. How

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Speaker 1: long I think did this take? And that would be

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Speaker 1: something that would have to be assessed in the morgue.

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Speaker 1: I do know this though, Dave, that when it's happened,

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Speaker 1: not only did these people that were bearing witness to

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Speaker 1: this event see America brutalized, you know what they saw next?

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Speaker 1: Her bloody body being drugged from the car by the

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Speaker 1: perpetrator placed on the ground, and then the same individual

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Speaker 1: grabbed her head that was now removed from her body

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Speaker 1: and laded immediately adjacent to her bloody corpse outside of

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Speaker 1: that vehicle. I never really minded working really bloody scenes

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Speaker 1: within structures, within homes. Certainly, I didn't mind working them outdoors.

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Speaker 1: Being a forensic investigator, a death investigator, specifically, you have

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Speaker 1: to document the environment. But you know, Dave, one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I never really ever got used to

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Speaker 1: was climbing inside of a vehicle. I never liked it

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Speaker 1: because it's constricting. There's nowhere. Let's say, for instance, you're

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Speaker 1: standing at a crime scene where you have remains that

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Speaker 1: are in a living room, or you're outside of a

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Speaker 1: home in an open field. You can kind of orbit

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Speaker 1: around the specific area where everything has taken place. You

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Speaker 1: have a kind of freedom of movement. You can take

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Speaker 1: your photographic images. We followed the points of the compass.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of how you do it, from mac to

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Speaker 1: micro and you do all the points kind of three

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty degrees all the way around the body,

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Speaker 1: and then you tighten in and you do that again,

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Speaker 1: and you do the same process with looking for trace evidence,

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Speaker 1: and you know all these other things you're documenting blood stain,

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Speaker 1: the dynamic, you know what kind of dynamic you're looking at,

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Speaker 1: and this sort of thing. But when you're inside of

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Speaker 1: a car, I always felt like I was going to

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Speaker 1: miss something, you know, because there's so many little hidden areas,

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Speaker 1: little grooves, contours, and you never can quite get positioned

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Speaker 1: in there. And this one other element, particularly as it

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Speaker 1: applies to America's homicide, is that it would have been

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Speaker 1: absolutely bathed in blood in that environment.

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Speaker 2: The shocking part of this, as we've talked about it,

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Speaker 2: Joe to me, are the nine to one one calls.

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Speaker 2: I would think that if you or I were near

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Speaker 2: the scene saw something taking place, a nine to one

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Speaker 2: one call would be made saying this is going on

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Speaker 2: and there are two guys running towards the action, that

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00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 2: would be the appropriate number one call. Now that's not

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Speaker 2: what happened. There's a call that came in at two

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Speaker 2: thirty one to nine one one. It was a female.

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Speaker 2: The perpetrator of this crime was supposed to be in

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Speaker 2: court that day for a previous attack on his significant

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Speaker 2: other America there and he was refusing to go to court.

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Speaker 2: They had a friend in the car with him and

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Speaker 2: he gave witness to this argument that took place. Now,

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Speaker 2: that was it between two pm and two thirty one.

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Speaker 2: We go from he won't go to court. America is

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Speaker 2: crying because he won't go to court and he's going

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Speaker 2: to have to go to jail. Now and again she's

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Speaker 2: crying for her abuser. If you're in an abusive relationship,

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Speaker 2: get out. She's crying for her abuser because he won't

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Speaker 2: go to court. She doesn't want to go to jail.

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Speaker 2: He gets mad at her. The friend gets out of

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Speaker 2: the car and that's where we see them together in

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Speaker 2: a neighborhood broad daylight. Alexis Subrette gets out of the

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Speaker 2: car and starts pounding away at America Thayer. He first

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Speaker 2: uses a dumbbell, then breaks out the machete. Nine to

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Speaker 2: one one gets a call of a knife stabbing, but

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Speaker 2: at two thirty one, a nine to one one call

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Speaker 2: is placed by a woman who is right there at

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Speaker 2: the scene. This is happening in front of her house.

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Speaker 2: She reports that a mail a man has just pulled

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Speaker 2: a body out of his car and it has no head.

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Speaker 2: The nine to one one caller said, the mail got

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Speaker 2: out of the car, was chopping at something in the

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Speaker 2: car with a huge knife, tossed the knife into the grass,

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Speaker 2: took what looks like a head with hair out of

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Speaker 2: the car, threw it on the ground, then pulled the

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00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 2: body out of the car. The man is then described

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Speaker 2: as heading eastbound down an alleyway, and she described the

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Speaker 2: man as wearing a white T shirt and a hat.

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Speaker 2: That is the exact description of an eyewitness account of

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Speaker 2: what took place on that day. And it sounds like

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Speaker 2: something out of a horror flake.

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Speaker 1: It does. You have visions of somebody in some horrible

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Speaker 1: mask wielding a machete. It's what and here's what, you know.

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Speaker 1: What really struck me the most is not necessarily the

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Speaker 1: level of gore. Perhaps we're staying in the horror vein

347
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Speaker 1: here is the fact that he began hoofing it away

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Speaker 1: from the location. That tells me, Dave, that there's an

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Speaker 1: awareness on his part that he's done wrong.

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Speaker 2: Now, what do you do, Joe as an investigator, as

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Speaker 2: a forensic investigator, where do you start with this? Because

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Speaker 2: you've got to determine so many things about this. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's obvious there's a body with no head. But you

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Speaker 2: have to put this back together in such a way

355
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Speaker 2: that in court it can be laid out for the

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Speaker 2: average person to understand what took place and who is

357
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Speaker 2: true a fault. I don't even know where you begin

358
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Speaker 2: with that. I am curious, though, do you start with

359
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Speaker 2: determining was she dead before her head was severed?

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Speaker 1: That's going to track back to the morgue when her

361
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Speaker 1: remains are finally examined there in ideal circumstances, you know,

362
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: the ideal circumstances of lighting, where you have all of

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Speaker 1: the instruments that you're gonna need. Chief among them is

364
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Speaker 1: X ray. I think in order to not just examine,

365
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Speaker 1: but to document. It's very difficult to do this at

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Speaker 1: the scene. I think as accurately as you could back

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Speaker 1: at the morgue. Here's the thing. We've got two weapons

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Speaker 1: involved here, and they will both have been collected at

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Speaker 1: the scene. Here's something that folks might not know. Did

370
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Speaker 1: you know that even in homicides, if you have a

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Speaker 1: good relationship, if the police, the police investigators have a

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Speaker 1: good relationship with the emmy, and this is just one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons you need to play nice with one another.

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Speaker 1: In our field, the me the pathologist specifically, will say,

375
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Speaker 1: look y'all, please bring the weapon to the morgue. And

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons that you do that because generally

377
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Speaker 1: the police will collect, say, for instance, the aforementioned dumbell

378
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Speaker 1: that was utilized, they collect that independent of the body. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you have a knife sticking out the body, first off,

380
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: you never remove the knife. You know that's something will

381
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: be collected at autopsy. But in this case, you would

382
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 1: have had these two elements of the dumbbell as well

383
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 1: as the edged weapon, this machete, So when you get

384
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Speaker 1: them back to the morgan, the police can bring those along.

385
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: What will happen is that after the bodies are cleaned

386
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Speaker 1: or in this case, America's remains would have been cleaned,

387
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: you're going to look for patterns externally on the body.

388
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Speaker 1: What are the patterns going to tell you what? You

389
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: can have patterns with the dead, okay, but what the

390
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: dead do not produce are contusions because they don't have

391
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 1: The dead don't have the ability to hemorrhage. With these

392
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: bruises and with overlying abrasions, you can actually, let's say,

393
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Speaker 1: if you think about the shape of a dumb bell

394
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: many dumbbells today have flat, flat surfaces all the way

395
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: around the circumference of both of the weighted ends, and

396
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 1: so if you're striking somebody with that, it will leave

397
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: a very distinctive pattern that's going to have edges and

398
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: margins and all those sorts of things. And what we

399
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: will do many times is take the alleged weapon and

400
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: have it immediately adjacent to a contusion and take a

401
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: microphotograph of that at autopsy, and it demonstrates kind of

402
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: a pairing up of these items, you know, where you

403
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: can actually see, Oh, okay, I can draw this conclusion.

404
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: Now I've got this kind of I don't know what

405
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: it would be, an octagonal shape on the end of it,

406
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: where it's got eight sides. Perhaps you can see the

407
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: edges in the contusion might very well all match that pattern.

408
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: That's important because when you get into court now you

409
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: have eyewitnesses that are saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw

410
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: this man, the accused, wielding this dumbbell at first, and

411
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: he's pounding her with it. I saw that he puts

412
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Speaker 1: the dumbbell down, then he picks up this blade and

413
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: the next thing I know, it seemed chopping, you know,

414
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Speaker 1: as you stated, and you get the pathologist on the

415
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: stand and the attorney during the examination will say, listen, doctor,

416
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Speaker 1: we've had previous testimony here that said that they witnessed

417
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: this dumbbell being utilized to beat America as she's sitting

418
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: in the sea. Can you do you see evidence of

419
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: that in the It's at that point in time. That's

420
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: why autopsy photographs are so important. And say, oh, yeah, well,

421
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: as demonstrated here, you can see we have the alleged

422
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: weapon here, this dumbbell, and do you see how these

423
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: margins kind of match this pattern? And he'll go into

424
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: great description relative to that. Here's one of the underlying

425
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: things that you have to consider. You might have conto

426
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: usions related to this beating event, but what do you

427
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: have that demonstrates that she was still alive at the

428
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: time her decapitation took place? And that's key because Dave,

429
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and bury the lead here and say

430
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: that her cause of death is not blunt force trauma.

431
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: Her cause of death is listed as decapitation. So this

432
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: is going to require kind of a layered dissection of

433
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: the skin where these chop because and this is key

434
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: as well, because the witnesses described a chopping event. This

435
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: is not like we talked about horror movies, just a

436
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: moment ago where you know, you think about these movies

437
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: where this monster will wheel the weapon in the head

438
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: will go flying off and one one. That's not what

439
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: happened here. You're talking about an individual that's using this

440
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: weapon in order to chop with So for every chop,

441
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: if she is still alive, guess what you're gonna have.

442
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: You're gonna have hemorrhage in that wound. There's a high

443
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: probability that every time this individual chops, they're not striking

444
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: the same edged weapon injury that they did initially. So

445
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: you might have a strike, they draw back again confined

446
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 1: quarters and remember were talking about in a car, and

447
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: then they drive it home again and they might be

448
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: approximating that area, but they're never going to match that up.

449
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: So you get like the first strike maybe you're looking

450
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: at you don't. It's hard to tell the order, but

451
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: I can tell you this. If you have one strike

452
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: and you've got hemorrhage in that first area of insulted tissue,

453
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: you know that we're alive there. You got any hemorrhage

454
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: in the next one, yeah, yeah, there's hemorrhage here. You

455
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: get down to the third or the fourth, there's no

456
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: longer any hemorrhage, and then suddenly the head is off

457
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: the body. He's removed and she's dead at that period

458
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: of time. But this is the really gruesome part about it.

459
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: Unless she was unconscious and we know that he struck

460
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: her in the head and you could tell that, I

461
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: think based upon how extensive the hemorrhage was in the

462
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: brain from the down bell strike, she may dave have

463
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: had an awareness that this was happening to her. It's

464
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 1: so very troubling.

465
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: When everything is said and done, you have eyewitness testimony, obviously,

466
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 2: but you've also got the video that somebody took instead

467
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 2: of providing help, and I'm sure that helped the prosecution

468
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 2: as well. When everything is said and done in court,

469
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: his defense was that she was the troublemaker and she

470
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 2: was breaking up on it. I mean, it's crazy that

471
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,719
Speaker 2: you actually have how do you defend this per you know?

472
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 2: But I know it's the court system anyway. Yeah, he's guilty.

473
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 2: The shocking matter is that there was any that we

474
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 2: had to go through all the court process. The man

475
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: chopped her head off in broad daylight, after beating her

476
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: with a dumbbell. How is it possible that we have

477
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: to consider this?

478
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: I think what's really telling here, Dave, is the fact

479
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: that not only was he found guilty this Alexis Sabaret,

480
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: not only was he found guilty, but he was Dave

481
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: actually found guilty of premeditated I.

482
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: Was going to ask you about that, Joe. It was

483
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 2: first degree premeditated murder. How is it that they could

484
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: determine that when it took place in a car after

485
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: he beat her with a dumbbell? How can they go

486
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: with premeditation? That looks sounds like something that he got

487
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: out in the car and just started beating her and

488
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 2: then decided, Hey, I'm going to go ahead and do

489
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: more damage. She's already dead. Kind of thing.

490
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: He shut up with a weapon, not just one, but two.

491
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: Now you can say, well, he was in he liked

492
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: to exercise, so he had dumbbell. But did he have

493
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: a whole weight set in there? He had that one weight?

494
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: How did he get her into that car to begin with?

495
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: How is it somebody that's so threatened by this man,

496
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: somebody that they're looking to end this thing? She wants out?

497
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: How are you going to get her into a car.

498
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: I think that there's at least some indication that she

499
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: was wrangled into that car through force, perhaps that he

500
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: got her into that car by threat. And this, trust me,

501
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: this is not the first time he's put hands on her.

502
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: It's not. It's a sad tale that goes on every

503
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: single day. And as as we speak right now, right now,

504
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: my friend, this is happening somewhere else right now in

505
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: this country, in multiple locations where you've got domestic abuse

506
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: going on. But he was in fact found guilty. I

507
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: don't know if there's any solace that can be found

508
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: in that, but he's off the streets at this point

509
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: in time. And of course you can't bring her back.

510
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: You can't bring America back. This person that was beloved

511
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: and that loved obviously loved him in her own way.

512
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: She's stuck around him for so long. But I just

513
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: want to again close with this and just as a reminder,

514
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: if you or anyone you love is going through domestic

515
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: abuse at this point in time, if you're having problems,

516
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: there's help for you. The National Domestic Violence Hotline can

517
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: be found. That phone number is one eight hundred seventy nine,

518
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: nine seven two three three, or go to theehotline dot org.

519
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybags