WEBVTT - How Jeff Buckley’s Legacy Was Immortalized with “Grace” 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.760 Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs of podcast based on 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:09.360 Rolling Stones. Hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversialist I'm Britney Spanos. 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:11.600 And I'm Rob Sheffield were here to shed light on 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.040 the greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:19.280 so great. And this week we are talking about Jeff 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:20.959 Buckley Grace. 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.360 Grace ranks at three ninety four on the New List 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.560 and his cover of Leonard cohen tally Lullia was actually 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:30.360 on the original list at two fifty nine. I'm a 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.559 big Jeff Buckley fan. I'm very excited to talk about this. 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:35.600 But do you remember the first time that you heard 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.760 the album Grace or encountered who Jeff Buckley was. 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:41.080 Yeah, it took a long time with me though. It 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.000 was an album that really and a musician who really 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:46.440 had to create his own audience because he just didn't 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:49.159 fit into anything. He didn't you know, he didn't fit 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:53.200 into any radio format. He didn't fit into any genre. Really, 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.840 genres are just funny words like as fiance would say, 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:01.440 and that for Jeff Buckley, there wasn't really an audience 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.600 that was ready to hear what he was doing. So Grace, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.759 the song and Grace the album both took years for me. Yeah, 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:10.679 Where's for You? It was very different. 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:12.720 Yeah, I feel like by the time that I was 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:17.080 a teenager, there was so much lore around Jeff Buckley, 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:20.240 so much of this mystery. I mean, he died very 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.440 tragically when he was thirty. He drowned in a river 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.600 while he was in Memphis about to record a second album, 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.119 and you know there's all that kind of just like 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:33.480 this tumblerrification of like his life because he was also 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.280 just like super hot, and like all the songs were 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.600 about like yearning and longing and love and like, you know, 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:44.640 for teen girls, that's like ultimate musical bait. Here's this 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.559 guy who died tragically young and also sings just about 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:52.160 like being so in love. So I feel like by 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.600 the time that I was a teenager like that, like 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:58.120 there was already this like legacy built around Jeff Buckley 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.160 that was very much on the level on par with 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.360 like Elliot Smith, Kurt Kobaning, Like that was you know, 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.880 kind of being just like amplified by teenage fans. So well, 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:10.880 I'd heard Hollylujo when I was in middle school, and 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.320 then Grace I got into later, and again it was 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:17.000 a big part of just like being on Tumblr and 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.800 live journal and all of those kind of sad teen 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:24.520 spaces that were sort of sharing his music. So I 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:26.000 was really obsessed with with Grace. 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:30.120 Then you mentioned live journal and Tumblr. He didn't really 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.400 become a star until until later when stuff like that 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:35.760 was invented. But he was one of the last pre 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:40.239 internet rock stars when you know, when he wasn't even 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:44.160 really a star, because I think having those communities online 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:46.239 for people to engage, I think he was one of 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:51.040 the first examples of an artists whose reputation just started 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.160 to really soar once people like that could find each other, 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:56.800 because it was just really different when he was like 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.600 getting no airplay was when he was around. 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:04.200 Itself is just I think, so brilliant, so well done. 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.920 I mean, he's such an incredible singer. Like his there's 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.280 a few covers on there, but the original songs as 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:14.480 well are just like absolutely just gorgeous and so poetic 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:18.720 and intense. He's just very intense guy again part of 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.160 the appeal. But yeah, like I think, you know, it's 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.880 just one of those things where there was so little 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:26.720 of him to listen to, so it's kind of like 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.640 piecing together what could have been and who he was 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.440 and all of that. You know, it's a similar story 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.600 with his father as well. His father is the Folks 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.720 singer Tim Buckley, who passed away when he was twenty 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.600 eight and so passed away when Jeff was pretty young, 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.280 and Jeff was raised by his mother and his stepfather 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.560 in California. There are sort of those parallels of like 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.920 the father and son kind of tragic young death and 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.960 sort of limited kind of output type of happening there. 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.200 That's also kind of adds so many more layers to 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.920 that story as well. And of course the song Grace 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.360 that ended up making the list. That song is a 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.280 song that was written with Gary Lucas the guitarist, and 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:07.760 it was based off of an instrumental that Gary Lucas 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.320 had written. And the song again is like such a 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:14.000 perfect example of like Jeff Buckley's writing style, which is 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.600 it's a very simple premise that is like so over 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.600 the top and so intense and so like just like 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:24.240 peak yearning. It's just about him saying goodbye to his 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.400 girlfriend at the airport on a rainy day. And I mean, 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:28.960 if you just kind of like listen to the first 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.600 the song the first time, You're like, is that it's 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:34.680 just so much deeper and so much more intense. And 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.520 you know, it's also, like he said, it's about not 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:39.840 feeling so bad about your own mortality when you have 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:45.479 true love, which like sure man like, but like love 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:50.120 that eat it up, like I'm an intense way of 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.200 talking about like a very mundane sort of activity. 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.080 Who doesn't chat about that at the airport. It's like, 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.200 let me stop at the cinnabuns and let's talk about 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:03.359 mortality love. You mentioned Hallelujah, which is of course his 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.440 most famous cover and a cover that blew up before 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.440 the original was anywhere near as famous. It really made 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:12.320 the original. But his version of that that leads into 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:14.880 the Smiths I Know It's over. That was a real 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:16.880 turning point for me in terms of learning to hear 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:18.960 what he was doing, because the first time I heard it, 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.280 I said, you got to be kidding. You're taking the 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.560 song that was already one of the most melodramatic songs 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:29.479 ever recorded for other human beings to listen to, and 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.840 nobody ever accused that song of not being histrionic enough, 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:39.520 and he took it to such mind blowingly hyperbolic melodramatic 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.560 heights that it really did seem like, Okay, he's overdoing 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:44.400 it so much that he makes it sound like, no, 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.280 this is what the song is meant to be when 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:51.200 it goes into that falsetto and completely leaves the song behind, 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.000 and it was really kind of a revelation of what 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:54.599 he was doing. 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.760 I will say he has one of my favorite falsettos 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.520 in music because there's also really great sort of deep 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.040 cut from him that I don't remember what exactly. I 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.440 think it's from some just like compilation of like unreleased 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.080 music that had been put out posthumously called Everybody Here 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:13.000 Wants You. Great song. His falsetto on that is absolutely stunning. 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:16.240 It's like kind of like a it's like so unlike 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.120 most of Grace where it's just like this like sort 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.719 of like groovy, sexy R and B song, like a 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.680 little bit more restrained musically than some of like the 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.560 kind of like bigger rock moments on Grace. But his 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:30.520 false seto on that is so perfect, Like I love 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.479 and I just like love his voice and it's very 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.359 clear like how much how many male singers have really 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:41.320 tried to evoke and like channel the Jeff Buckley musical 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.520 spirit in the decade since seems very very obvious how 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.560 how much of that influence has existed. 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.719 God, you are so right about that. It's so funny that. 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.760 I mean, it's striking for me because personally, I don't 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.560 remember singers going for that kind of falsetto before. He did, 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:00.479 certainly not like in that you know, rock kind of context. Yeah. 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:04.080 Every time I hear, especially like a young male singer 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.640 with an acoustic guitar do that kind of falsetto, I 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.360 just think this is something really Jeff Bucket kind of invented. 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:14.119 It isn't just something that he demonstrated to the world, 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.920 but that kind of singing, he took it so far 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.760 over the top compared to anybody who did that kind 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:21.400 of thing before. 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:23.920 Yeah, I feel like I hear a lot of him 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:28.360 in Hosier right now. I feel like that. I got 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:30.080 really into Hosier last year and I was like, I 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:31.320 was like, why do I like Hoser so much? And 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:32.480 I was like, oh, yeah, because he reminded me so 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.680 much of Jeff Buckley, and I feel like I hear 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.320 a lot of that. I guess maybe that's also kind 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:38.240 of where I'm seeing like a lot of the crossover too, 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:44.080 and like the Jeff Buckley sort of continuing popularity in 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.960 his music is like a lot of these sort of 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:51.040 male singer songwriters like Hoser, like a Lewis Capaldi or 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.360 even thinking of like Nile Horn's like I guess with 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:56.440 more So I was like first album and sort of 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.280 totally you know, those kind of more guitar driven. I 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:01.920 think a lot of those A lot of times people 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.080 want to put them more closely to like John Mayer, 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.800 who is also very Jeff Buckley influenced, but it is 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.400 very clearly seems to go back to like Jeff more 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.120 so than even that, Like it seems like to go 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:18.040 back to that sort of like genre bending, soulful kind 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.120 of like pop rock sound of his. 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.600 Yeah to me, no as well like another like you know, 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.360 hitting those high notes and doing that in a totally 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:28.760 unconventional sort of style. 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.000 Yeah. And I feel like we're like constantly in waves 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.520 of like irony and earnestness and like pop culture of 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:38.200 like it's like either a really like ironic era or 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:39.920 like a very earnest era. And I feel like we're 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:42.400 in that sort of like earnest moment again. And we 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.160 could hear that in like the music that's really popular 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.360 right now, we can hear that, and like you know, 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.400 the artists are blowing up, and I feel like the 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:53.199 music that's also we're nostalgic for. And I think Jeff 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:57.440 Buckley being sort of like this kind of perfect emblem 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:01.880 of earnestness kind of is always sort of a moment 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:04.760 for him to kind of come back or for people 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.520 to discover him or rediscover him in some way. So 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.960 I feel like he's kind of that's maybe why there's 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.280 kind of a new wave of fans coming in. 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:18.080 That's so fascinating. So an age of earnestness is an 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.880 age that's open to Jeff Buckley. 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.199 They're more ready than ever for Jeff. 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:28.120 Buy if I'm hearing you correctly, Jeff Buckley is bigger 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.560 now than he's ever been, which I think it's fair 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.160 to say. I mean, yeah, just gets more and more. 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:35.200 He hits deeper with people every time. 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.960 Yeah, I think especially because it's so it's less so 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:42.040 about Hallelujah right now, Like obviously that's sure the like 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.200 Hallelujah sort of I guess it would it could be 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.720 called revival in the two thousands or like the Hallelujah 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.480 like popularity that was happening in the two thousands was 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.480 I mean, such a massive, massive moment. But I think 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:57.400 right now it does seem like, you know, I've been 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.360 hearing a lot of Jeff Buckley and like television and 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.800 movies and like high fidelity of the show. Also like 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.680 had Jeff Buckley featured prey pop, Yeah, and a Jeff 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.720 Buckley inspired character on there, yes, which like was great. 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.320 I love that show. And yeah, I mean just like 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.640 I feel like it's like happening a little bit. Maybe 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.440 maybe I'm also just like I'm paying closer attention to 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.560 the Jeff Buckley vibes that are being thrown my way 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.480 than most people. But there's a lot, So there's there's 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:25.400 a lot of a lot of Jeff Buckley, you know. 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:28.800 There's a lot out there, and that he just gets more. 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.360 They reach a point where it seems like, well, this 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:36.800 music from this era is more popular now than anybody 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.880 could have imagined, and yet just keeps getting more and 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:40.960 more popular every year. 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.080 Yeah. Next, we'll be joined by Rolling Stone senior writer 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:49.480 David Brown. We are joined now by Rolling Stone senior 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.240 writer David Brown, who also is the author of the 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.720 book Dream Brother, The Lives and Music of Jeff and 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.640 Tim Buckley. Thank you so much, David for being here today. 0:10:57.800 --> 0:10:59.040 I'm thrilled with you guys. 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:03.599 Yeah, thanks David, And I'm curious what prompted your exploration 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.920 into Jeff and Tim Buckley's lives originally. 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:12.200 Well, I was really fortunate to catch Jeff Buckley live 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:14.480 very early in his career, when he was playing at 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.160 this complete kind of hole in the wall coffee house 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.200 called Shane on the Lower East Side, when there was 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.200 just a lot of buzz about him in the early nineties. 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:24.880 It was funny. I kept hearing like from people I 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:29.959 worked with at another outlet, like have you had Tim 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.640 Buckley's son is playing in this bar and you should 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.480 change He's amazing, you should check him out. And I 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.720 thought Tim Buckley had a son. I had no idea 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.080 and anyway, so I was lucky to see him a 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.560 couple of times there and interview him early on for 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.360 another rival outlet at the time. It was probably one 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.360 of his first interviews, and he was just a fascinating 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.840 combination of someone who was both kind of intense and 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.360 almost mythopoetic in his way and also just totally like 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.720 goofy and funny. The year later, Grace came out and 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.240 I you know, kind of lived up to those expectations 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.760 of what we thought he could bring. And so yeah, 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:10.600 that's basically what brought me all into it. 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.000 And what was I mean, I know, there was so 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.520 much of that buzz happening with those shows and everything 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.080 that even leading up to there was record execs trying 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.520 to sign him and just you know, what was it 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:22.959 like to watch him live? What was that experience of 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.080 what his live shows were lated at that time? 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.240 It was kind of amazing because Shane was probably about 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.920 the size of this room. It was an incredibly small space, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.439 didn't even have a sign out front, you know. He 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.439 would just sit there against this brick wall with his 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.320 white electric guitar, didn't have a band or anything. And 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.400 what was kind of amazing was he didn't really have 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.760 a whole lot of original songs at that point. He 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.240 was never a super prolific songwriter, but he only had 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.200 a few songs. So he dipped into his own knowledge 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.920 of music, whether it was the stuff he grew up with, 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.160 the records he grew up with in his house and 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:01.040 his mother's or stepfather's record collections, and it was kind 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.000 of his way of trying to find out who he was. 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.040 So you might hear one of his own songs. Then 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.560 you'd hear like an Edith paf song or some obscure 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.520 Elton John song or a Bad Brains song or Led 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.200 Zepplin's Night Flight, or they'd be like, where's this coming from? 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.800 You know. We had this incredible sense of history about him. 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.880 And what was fascinating too was again in the context 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.920 of the early nineties alternative rock scene, which he wasn't 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.320 really part of, but that's what it was. There was 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:31.080 nothing cheeky or ironic about his covers. It wasn't like 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:32.880 someone doing a cover of who was it that did? 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.199 I'm Easy with that faith no More? You know, or 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.080 they would do a cover yeah line of Witchi's and 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.360 you think, well, is this done with a little wink like? 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.880 You know, that wasn't the case. No matter what Jeff 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.960 was doing. He was intensely invested in that song, Hank 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.880 Williams song, Billie Holiday song, you know, whatever it was. 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.160 He just was fully invested in it. And it actually 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.640 turned some people off back things because they people would 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.000 say it seems kind of corny. He was like, he 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.960 was so like earnest and sincere, and that wasn't cool 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.760 back then, but that's that's kind of what made him 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:11.040 great and made him stand out. 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.400 At the time, it was wild to see that sort 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.560 of mystique that he built. At the time you wrote 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.520 your book, that hadn't really come together yet because that 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.200 was so soon after this story. I think the book 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.760 was like a big part of building that posthumous mystique. 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.520 But really, like while he was alive, it was very 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.000 different in terms of, like you said, people had very 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.960 strongly mixed feelings about him. Also because what he did 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:38.120 was so musically unique and so emotionally intense that, like 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.760 you said, it was a real almost visceral turnoff for 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:41.440 a lot of people. 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:43.640 It kind of was. But you know, even then, I 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.560 remember interviewing someone, a photographer and good friend of his 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.240 name Mary Sear, who took the cover of the Grace album, 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.160 and she said, even when, you know, when she knew him, 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.400 there were there were always two Jeffs with her. There 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.800 was regular Jeff, who was this kind of cut up 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.640 class clown. He was a brilliant mimic. He could in 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.040 between songs at Shane or even at his own concerts 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.479 later he might suddenly do like a version of Kashmir 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.200 sped up to forty five, you know, you know, and 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.320 just not the whole thing. Just so he had that 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.720 jokey side of him. And then there was what she 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.160 called the mythological Jeff, and that was the guy who 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:22.760 was obsessed with feelings of mortality and legacy and family 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.800 burden and the record company, you know, record industry pressure, 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.440 and you know, this kind of like darkness and not 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:31.680 darkness but more of a heaviness. And he kind of 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.960 went back and forth between him, so that mythic side 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:39.000 was there already, you know, and I think he cultivated 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.560 it in a way, you know. And romantis and that's 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.720 a great word, it's the perfect word, because he really, 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.960 he really had that in his He had this this view, 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.080 this kind of very spiritual, intense view of music as 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.960 this holy ritual. And now that sounds so corny just 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.320 to say that, but he really did. He saw it 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.920 as this calling, and not just because his father was 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.360 Tim Buckley. He kind of saw it as his souvation 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.040 or something and all that. How did you hear his music? 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.360 It was the Hollylijah cover. That was a song that 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.160 was played on radio a lot. It was played on 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.640 alternative radio a lot. Was that song, wow, the first 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.600 song that ever made me like actively start sobbing, Like 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.520 it was just like his performance was so emotional. I'd 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:23.800 heard Halleluiah before because of Shrek, obviously famously going back 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.160 to the roots, but I just never heard a song 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.200 performed like that before, and it was that was the 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:32.760 first song, And I probably heard it in middle school, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.240 and I think then later got more into grace and 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.520 sort of that. I think just listening to a lot 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.040 of like I was very into twenty seven club or 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.600 and like that is, you know, very high school thing 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.200 to become very infatuated with. 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.120 And it's one of the only, if you guys agree 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:51.160 with me, one of the only covers of a Leonard 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.600 Cohen song that's better than Leonard Cohen's cover. 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.080 It's definitely any unique one in terms of the history 0:16:56.120 --> 0:17:00.000 of that song. Like it's really weird to even contemplate 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.360 how obscure that song was before Jeff Buckley saying it 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.720 that this song was just sitting there and nobody had 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.520 any idea that it was a classic. Allen Light's book 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.600 about that whole history of that song is so fascinating. 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.320 And he only heard it through the Lender Cone tribute album. 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:16.600 It was John Cale right, the John Kyle version. That's 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.280 how Jeff heard it. He didn't even I'm not sure 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.240 he even knew a Lender Cohen version right away. 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:25.200 Yeah, but I knew when he died it was so striking. 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.960 It was May ninety seven, and it seemed like his 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:32.080 story was just beginning. So it seemed really because like 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:33.760 Grace was an album that I don't know if you 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:35.480 remember it this way, but for a lot of people, 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:38.280 they thought of it as very promising album that it 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.560 like that it wasn't his masterpiece. It was, you know, 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.119 a statement from somebody who was about to develop and 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:46.120 go different places. 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:46.600 Right. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.120 It didn't seem like one of those tortured artists eyes 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.479 young kind of stories. It seemed like very wrong for 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:53.360 his history and his potential. 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.920 I mean, it was shocking as it should be. 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:57.320 Yeah. 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.320 I think what you're getting at in a way was 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.119 that what was so fascinating about Jeff was his incredible 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.120 range of influences. And you hear it on Grace where 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.479 he does these sort of kind of mystical almost Indian 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.040 music things. Then he'll do a Nina Simone song, and 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.960 he'll do Eternal Life, which was the closest thing to 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.399 alternative rock on that album, and all those influences that 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:22.160 we talked about earlier. He seemed like, right from the beginning, 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:26.440 one of those legacy artists, and that's what I think 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.879 intrigued him at Columbia Records to sign him. But he 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.479 seemed like one of these rare people who would come 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.600 along and would have a career, like a Bob Dylan 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.359 or a Van Morrison or some of these other people 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.200 he worshiped too, or Elvis Costello. These are all heroes 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:47.040 of his who had these long careers that had hills 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:51.119 and valleys commercially, but they would just kind of follow 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.119 their muse and like, I'll make a record like this, 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.560 maybe a record like that. And this record he was making, 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.480 the second record that never finished. You know, it was 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:03.280 part of that process. They weren't quite sure what it 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.840 was they recorded with Tom Verlaine that didn't quite work out, 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.000 and he was gonna do more of an indie ish 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.160 kind of record, and it was part of that whole 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.520 exploration we and it was exciting. You were like, where's 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:16.720 this guy going to go? It didn't seem like he 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.160 wasn't a one note artist, and so that was really 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:21.960 added to the tragedy, like, oh man, this is someone 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:24.800 we could we could have been listening to for decades 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.400 like some of those other people, and they haven't cut 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:27.960 short like that. 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.000 And of course Grace the album made five hundred Greatest 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.200 Album's list and Grace's song makes the five hundre Gras 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.399 Songs list. It actually replaced Hallylia, which was on the 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:42.720 original list. I'm curious what your reaction was to seeing 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.200 that song from the album make the list. 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.640 I was a little surprised that Grace would have been 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.120 the one, but then again, I mean there are first 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:53.800 of there are so many great ones. I would have 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.080 almost thought last Goodbye because it was kind of the 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.280 hit closest he had to a hit. I'm glad though, 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.160 that it's Grace because it's one of his own original 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:04.879 it's an original song. It's not just a cover, not 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:07.520 just a cover. But it's great to see a song 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.960