WEBVTT - Why are TSA rules so confusing? 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:03.120 I'm Manny, I'm Noah, and this is Devin and this 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.200 is no such thing. The show where we settle our 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:08.840 dumb arguments and yours by actually doing the research. On 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:12.320 today's episode, we figure out what is actually going on 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:13.039 with the TSA. 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.640 I think the TSA's blanket response is always either we're 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.960 following the procedure exactly or we're preventing the next nine 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:20.360 to eleven. 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:21.480 So just deal with it. 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:29.680 There's no no such thing, no such thing such. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.240 So we're all about to take our first trip together 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:44.080 to an undisclosed location. 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:49.440 First trip, Yeah, first flight. We've never been on a trip. 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:51.440 We're all three of us. 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.120 WHOA, I don't know. 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:57.760 You're right, done like day trips, but we haven't done 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.400 New Jersey overnight these New Jersey out. 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:03.920 Of state actually to that's actually shocking. 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:05.840 Yeah, so this is gonna be well. By time this 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:08.360 comes out, we would have been on this trip. Yeah, 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:13.760 that's true. So you know, got me thinking about the TSA, 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:19.160 which got me thinking about this is a core memory. 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:23.440 It was twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, it just come out 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.280 that you could look at all your Google data and 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:28.319 see like all the information that Google had about you. 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:34.640 Oh my god. So we were all. 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.039 Looking to say, like, all right, how old is Google think? 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.440 I am all that sort of stuff. And then we 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.280 also realized that you can get your voice recordings if 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:45.360 you have like a Google Home. So none of us 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.120 had a Google Home except Manny at the time, That's right, 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:53.040 So we were curious what was on Manny's Google Home 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:54.280 home recordings, which. 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:58.280 Is an immediate violation of privacy. But continue, we all. 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:03.160 Gathered around your computer. You were about to go on 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.440 a trip, yeah, and you had asked the Google Home 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.920 maybe a dozen times, can I bring X on a plane? 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:18.280 I remember this instance because I think I was literally packing, 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.840 and as I was packing, I just kept saying, you know, 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:23.800 I would pick something up and be like, hey Google, 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:27.040 and I take this, Well, SA, let me bring this. 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:32.400 And so when we when we looked at the the 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:37.000 like the saved responses, it was just like twelve in 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.120 a row, like back to back to back. Can I 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.760 bring like a razor? Can I bring my portable battery? 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:46.960 But I will say I had a great reason to 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.440 keep asking those questions because I still to this day 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:52.600 don't know what I can bring and what I can't bring. 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:54.679 You know what That's what I was going to say. 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.200 You know, we're a little bit older now near you know, 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.720 nearly ten years later, like to apologize. I think we 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:08.519 were clowning you at the time. But Manny is not uniqueness. Now. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.440 Every time I travel, I don't you know, I'm not 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.040 asking my goal a home, but I do. And you 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.760 sit and think, like, wait, how you know how much 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.040 liquid am I allowed to bring? Do I actually have 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.680 to put them in a plastic bag? You know, I 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.040 travel a few times a year. I'm not like someone 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.400 who's traveling like every other week. But I travel, I 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.480 guess not often enough to have to have that moment 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.000 where I have to stop and think about what I 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.120 can bring. Same here, this group is not alone and 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:39.400 being confused by the TSA rules. It is the sort 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.040 of thing that every time I think, okay, there's going 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.920 to be the time I get it right, and every 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.280 time I'm more and more confused. Every time I go. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.800 The signs are different than what the TSA agents are 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.520 telling me to do. Yep, And half the things I'm like, 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:57.200 do I actually have to do that? Like now I 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.880 don't actually put my liquids in a large classic bag. 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:00.360 Don't do that? 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:00.800 Anymore. 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.440 I mean, the laptop is another one. Like, I'm flying 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.200 way more often this year than I usually am, and 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:13.760 so I'm starting to track this stuff anecdotally. But I 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:19.120 was on my way from Atlanta to New York and 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:24.440 the sign says take your laptop out or any device 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.320 that's bigger than your phone. So I start to do that, 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.760 and then the TSA agent says, stop, you don't have 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.440 to take your laptop out. He's like yelling at me. 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.080 Are you why it's confusing? 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:40.120 Yeah? 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.400 And I guess in my head, I'm like, Okay, maybe 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:47.000 there are some shifts where they can be more lax, 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:49.640 but why don't you just say, hey, you don't have 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:51.680 to take it out? Why are you screaming at it? 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.120 Well, that's it's frustrating. All due respect to though hard 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.200 work is a TSA, but it's like, I don't live 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.040 I don't live here. I'm not here every day like you, 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.080 So why should I be expected to understand this, especially 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.240 when signage and history has told me to do this? 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:08.160 It doesn't make any sense. 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.159 I have respect because they see a billion people every day, 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.880 But what I don't have respect for is that I, like, 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.440 I can't expect what to do. Now, if the rule 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.359 was the same every time and I was still fucking 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.000 up every that's on, you go off on me. I 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:26.680 deserve it, you know, lock him up. But if it 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.560 says take your laptop out and I'm trying to do 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.279 it and you're yelling at me, where do we go 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:32.640 from here? 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:36.919 Shoes crazy? I mean is that the rules are different. 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:38.960 They don't match the signs, they don't match what you 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.840 look up online, and it's not even the same, like 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.200 you know, it's not even like every time I go 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.880 to JFK, it's it's like, okay, this part of JFK 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.279 is different than this part of JFK. So it's like, 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.600 all right, it's confusing. So what I get? If you're 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:54.719 gonna tell me something different, sure I could follow that. 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:56.080 You just don't have to yell at me like I'm 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.880 a fucking idiot because the thing right here is telling 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:00.720 me to do something different and what you're telling me. 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.479 And God forbid, if you point that out like I have, 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:09.000 I'll be like, I'm like, oh, that's interesting because look 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:11.960 at the sign that's literally right behind you. And then 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:13.240 they'll just get even more pissed. 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.920 So this creator redecues did this TikTok. It's almost three 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.880 years old now, but I think it perfectly captures sort 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.400 of what we're talking about, taking laptops and electronics out 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:24.800 the bag. 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:26.920 If you gotta hold it, you want to take it all, 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:35.119 take it all of traumatized. Listening to this feels like 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.120 like drill sergeants. 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.000 Yes, yes, And there's like a level of anxiety that 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.880 like going through security, I just have at all times. 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.799 And I'm someone who's very fucking good at following directions. Yeah, 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:48.640 you know, like I am one of those okay that 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:50.840 says that I'm ready. I got my ship ready to go. 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:52.919 My shoes are a little bit slipped off. 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:56.200 Like oh yeah, I read in shoes that are easy 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.240 to take off. I don't even wear a belt to 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.919 the airport. Got my laptop separate from others, make it 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.960 easy to come out. And now you know, we're younger too, exactly, 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.560 We're not young, but we're younger. And like sometimes I'll 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.920 go through the line and see old people getting screamed, 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.120 yelled at, no fucking mercy. 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:19.080 Granny is getting like, like you fucking idiot, granny, figure 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.080 it out. You know, I guess she doesn't have to 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:22.880 take our shoes off. Oh then they yell at granny 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:24.600 because she's old, so she doesn't have to take our 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.400 shoes off. She doesn't know that. Yeah, and it's just. 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:30.760 Like meanwhile, planes weren't even around when this woman was war. 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.760 She's learning with the rest of the world. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:42.560 Her last flight was with the right brothers. This is 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:49.040 Amelia Earhart, and y'all are screaming at her. So, yeah, 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.720 this is it seems like there there could be a 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:53.520 better way to do this. 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.200 I mean, I'm curious, like how TSA does decide if 0:07:56.240 --> 0:08:00.640 it does decide the differences between airports. Is it domestic 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.200 for international? Is their system in place. 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.880 Airport at the airport? Yea, Well I'm curious, like we 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:09.160 haven't even touched on this yet, but we go through 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:14.240 all this bullshit. Does this actually even work? Why can't 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:16.400 I bring a water bottle on a plane? Like come on, 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.760 you know, yeah, I know one guy tried to do 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.320 one water one time, but it's water. 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.960 The universal solvent, and I can't carry it. 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.360 You can bring water everywhere else. 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:31.920 Now, you know. I'm okay if they ban dasani, my 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.760 regular water bottle should be fine. 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:44.880 No, alright, so we'll get some answers to some of 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.600 those questions. After the break, and I chat with a 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.560 reporter who tells me the darkest you say story I 0:08:51.600 --> 0:09:01.840 have ever heard. All Right, we're back. This is no 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:04.040 such thing. Have you been? So you're in Texas? 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:04.280 Right? 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:06.000 I am in Texas, Dallas. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:08.120 So I appreciate you taking the time to hop on. 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.559 Can I just have you introduce yourselves name and sort 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:11.000 of what you do. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:11.920 Sure. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.440 My name is Darryl Campbell. I'm an aviation safety writer 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.840 for the tech website The Verge, and I've also got 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.600 a book coming out. It's called Fatal Abstraction, Why the 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.040 Managerial Class Loses Control of Software. 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.560 So a few years ago there I wrote this deep 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:29.319 dive for The Verge called The Humiliating History of the TSA. 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.040 I loved your article. I thought it was like so 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:37.040 much of the writing around TSA I feel like sort 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.719 of really walks around the fact that, like it's such 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:41.800 a bizarre experience. 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:43.920 Yeah. 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.120 I really did want to capture the weirdness of it. 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:46.440 Yeah. 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:48.719 I think the key to it was that first anecdote. 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.320 So this person, her name is Jay Cooper. She's a 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.160 former ts SO who used to work at LaGuardia, and 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:04.800 the story she told me was, in a lot of 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:08.480 ways the perfect encapsulation of just how strange and bizarre 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.320 the TSA experience can be. So she was working at 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.679 her checkpoint she noticed someone was crying in the line, 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.760 and it's an airport that happens. But when the person 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.160 came through to her station, so she was the document 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.439 checker at the front of the line, someone was pushing 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:27.719 someone in a wheelchair and the person in the wheelchair 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.040 was supposed to hand over their ticket and she wasn't 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.920 really being responsive, so Jay asked her, Hey, can I 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:34.880 have your documents? Can you stand up to do the 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.800 security check? The person pushing her was crying and she said, 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.880 but she can't. She can't because it turns out the 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.760 person in the wheelchair was dead. What happened was they 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:46.839 had checked in a couple hours before, and it was 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.640 an international flight, so they were just being safe, and 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.439 the person in the wheelchair had died at some point 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:54.920 between check in and the time that they were going 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:59.920 through security. The problem is, once you've checked in, you 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:04.760 are entitled to go through security unless a doctor pronounces 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.760 you dead, and so at that point, airport rules being 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.320 what they are. There wasn't a doctor on station, so 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:14.560 they had to let the person through security. So Jay 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:16.880 asked her, Okay, well, here's what we have to do. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.360 We actually have to take them physically out of the wheelchair, 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.080 do a pat down on them in a private room, 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.280 you know, put on the gloves. But they treated her 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.400 as if she was just another person going through security, 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:28.920 even though. 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:30.480 They were a corpse at that point. 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.720 It really is just kind of an example of how 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.400 the TSA has to do its job without question, no 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.000 matter what, even if the person isn't alive. 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.160 Was it clear to TSA that the person passed away? 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.480 They knew, they all knew, everyone knew, everyone knew the 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:48.120 person was dead. 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.520 There just wasn't a doctor to officially say that. 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:52.040 Yes. 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.719 Wow, but it, you know, it sort of points to 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.480 this thing of like the TSA has their rules, yeah, 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.840 and everyone has to go through security even if you 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:02.640 are dead. 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:04.760 That is the darkest ts Yeah, it's pretty you know, 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:05.280 you're right. 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.000 Yeah, So I'm going to take a step back, and 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:10.920 I think a lot of people take for granted that 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.000 the TSA is just, you know, the way we do 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.400 airport security. But that hasn't always been the case, So 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.520 can you tell us a bit about how and why 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:20.640 the TSA was formed. 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.000 So I'm old enough to remember a time before TSA. 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.720 My parents used to work for the airlines, so I 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.160 remember being little and actually being able to go up 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.440 to the gate when my dad had a flight and 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:37.120 meet him right at the gate side. After nine to eleven. 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.040 The TSA was formed first as part of the Department 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:44.120 of Transportation and then was kind of moved over to 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:47.840 the Department of Homeland Security once that was formed. But 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:51.160 it was really a response specifically to the nine to 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.680 eleven attacks and kind of an overreaction in my view 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.199 of what you really need to do to sort of 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.479 stop the next nine to eleven, which is the TSA's 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:00.280 primary goal. 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.760 Today, we take permanent and aggressive steps to improve the 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.280 security of our airways, and a new team of federal 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:12.120 security managers, supervisor, law enforcement officers, and screeners. We'll ensure 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.600 all passengers and carry on bags are inspected thoroughly and effectively. 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:18.079 The new security force. 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.880 Will be well trained, made up of US citizens, and 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:22.960 if any of its members do not perform, the new 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:29.520 Undersecretary will have full authority to discipline or remove them. 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:34.239 Before nine to eleven, though airport security was relatively uninvasive. 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:39.160 You had your metal detectors, you had just private security 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.920 guards at the checkpoints, just saying okay, if you've got 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:44.360 a gun or if you've got a big knife, then 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.120 you obviously can't take that. But otherwise you didn't need 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.240 a ticket to pass through security. And that was because 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.480 what we think of as hijacking today was actually very 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:57.439 different in kind of the nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties, nineteen seventies, 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.719 where people were hijacking airplanes, not to use them the 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.760 as suicide weapons, but really as political statements. 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.199 Between nineteen sixty eight in nineteen seventy two, there were 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.880 over one hundred and thirty American planes that were hijacked, 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.400 with most of those hijackers wanting to go to Cuba. 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.120 There was a man up in the cockpit with a 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.720 gun that we were going to Havana, that there was 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:21.000 nothing to panic about. 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:23.760 Messengers calm during most of it. 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:24.720 They were come. 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:26.840 Most of them were totally come. 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:27.880 During most of this. 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:29.240 They were very nice. 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.360 We had a nice dinner over there in the airport, 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.440 a couple of drinks, all on the house. It's hard 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.840 to complain of Potte where you're frightened at any point. Oh, 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:40.000 I don't think anybody was. 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.920 You find out you're on a hijacksplane, You're like, oh, 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:44.560 gotta get a different city. 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:49.360 Now, let it killed me. And then you know, getting 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.280 to the seventies, it got a lot out of hand. 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:56.320 And then Nixon came through and I was like, all right, 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.320 like we need to have a little bit more security. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.080 And so that's where installed the private security guards and 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:02.920 the metal detectors. 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.640 President nexton there is an out several steps designed to 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.760 counter hijacking. The White House Anti hijacking plan is in 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.120 three parts. Starting tomorrow, armed guards will ride shotgun on 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:16.400 some domestic and international flights, Electronic surveillance at the airports 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.880 will be increased, and pressures will be brought on the 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.600 international community to ostracize those countries that do not punish 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:23.440 their hijackers. 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.560 So, in this security system that you're talking about, pre 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:35.000 TSA really primarily just looking for weapons or is that 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.960 like the primary you know, now we're talking about liquids 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:39.320 and taking off our shoes and all. 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:42.520 These Yeah, yeah, it's gotten crazy, but no, it was 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:44.640 two main things that they were looking out for. Number 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.360 one was bombs that could harm an airplane, so like 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.040 the lockerbie terrorist example, that happens in check baggage, So 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.360 that's something outside of the airport security that we see 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.840 every day. And then just individual armed hijackers who could 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.920 pose the threats. But looking for individual being the operative 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.960 thing like individual small groups, not you know, five or 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:07.960 six people at a time with box cutters. So it 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.240 was very specific to the threat that they saw it 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.160 in sort of the sixties and seventies. 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.600 Good Morning America may never be the same. And this 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.400 is why a beautiful Tuesday turned tragic when American Airlines 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.800 Flight eleven crashed into the North Tower of the World 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.600 Trade Center. And that was just the beginning. 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.200 The nine to eleven attacks are almost like the trojan Horse. 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:42.560 It's so successful but also so infamous that it's never 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.000 going to work again. And if you think about the 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.840 things that are preventing the next nine to eleven quote unquote, 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.520 there's really three things. Number one, reinforced cockpit doors. You 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.240 can't just walk your way up into a cockpit anymore. 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.000 You have to have the pilot's key you in, and 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.600 there's a whole system in place. The second isilot training. 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.360 Previous forms of hijacking were really just about making a 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.360 political statement, So pilots were trained to obey and basically 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.760 do whatever the hijackers wanted. That doesn't happen anymore, and 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.360 pilots are trained to get the airplane on the ground 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.680 as quickly as possible and let law enforcement take over. 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.280 And really the third thing is passengers are aware of 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:21.440 the threat now. And we've seen this in the case 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.920 of the shoe bomber, the underwear bomber, and I'm sure 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:26.920 you've seen all the videos. Are just people acting weird 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.640 on airplanes now and passengers are really on top of them, 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:33.280 restraining them and so on. So I think the whole 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.840 idea that the TSA was designed to respond to nine 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.320 to eleven is almost outdated from the moment that it 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:44.240 was created. Now there's obviously a kind of public relations 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.679 aspect to it, too, and that the government needed to 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.119 seem like it was doing something to respond. And the 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.160 best way to get people to give them credit, if 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.240 you like, is to invent a new security apparatus, invent 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.360 a new processes that touches everybody that wants to fly, 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:03.840 so that it looks like people are doing things, even 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:07.280 if what they're actually doing is not so effective. There's 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.280 a term that someone coined. It's called security theater. It's, 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.520 you know, the whole big show about it, even if 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.639 there's no kind of metrics that you can track. And 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:19.640 actually that's part of the problem is that there's really 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:24.040 no transparency around how TSA is effective. If you go 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.280 to the FBI or if you go to the Department 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.040 of Transportation and say, okay, how do you measure if 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.360 what you're doing is successful? Then they've got a list 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.320 of on time departures, arrests, whatever, whatever. For the TSA. 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.760 It's like, well, we haven't had another nine to eleven, 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.760 But how much of that is really because of the TSA. 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.160 Darryl told me, when you go through a security checkpoint, 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.480 they're eight tasks the TSO might be performing. 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:59.000 It's a very regimented process, and in part it's because 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.119 when you first become a transportation security officer, that's what 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:07.360 you're doing. So there's the ticket checking where you hand 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:11.800 your ticket to get scanned. There's the security they call 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.480 it divestiture, which is a fancy way of saying take 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.119 off your shoes, in your jacket and put it in 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.840 the bin. There's the person at the actual scanner, there's 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:24.080 the person who's operating the personal scanner, the baggage scanner, 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.119 and there's a bunch of different ones as supervisor. So 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:31.080 it's really kind of like you're Catholics, like the Stations 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:32.720 of the Cross. You kind of move around to each 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.320 individual one throughout your shifts, but you're supposed to be 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.560 trained on all of them, and each one has like 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.159 five hours of training for every station, so it's not 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:42.880 just a question of people yelling ask you to say, 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:44.639 take your shoes off, but they are actual steps that 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:46.000 they're supposed to follow. 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:52.720 Real quick. He uh, he mentioned the stations of the Cross. 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.160 Do you guys know what that is? That's such an 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:59.919 obscure Catholic reference that now you break this, it's just 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.919 it's like, uh, it's in every Catholic church you have 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.240 like the Stations of the Cross around the room. It's 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:13.200 like the twelve or fourteen like little steps that Jesus 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.720 took on his way to get crucified. So it's like, Okay, 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.880 it makes number three, he kissed this woman on the cheek. 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.720 Number four, he fell down number five. It's like, but 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:24.360 I just thought that was so funny that I don't 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:25.360 think that people. 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:29.520 Next time you watch Passion of the Christ, you know, 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:30.919 I'm sure you will be on Easter. 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:32.120 Keep that in mind. 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:35.800 It's like he's like going through tsa think. 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:39.000 About what he did. And you also talk about like 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:43.240 the compliance factor of it, right of like constantly monitoring 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.719 these employees to making sure that you're saying they're following 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:51.080 the exact steps that they're taught, and how that bruise 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.199 a lot of anxiety within the workers, and then you 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.520 know with the travelers as well. 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:00.000 Speaks yeah today, Yeah, it's I call it a complain 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.400 clients fetish. But you remember this whole thing a couple 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.600 of weeks ago about Doge firing a bunch of probationary workers. 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:10.680