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Speaker 1: Media. I miss the days when I felt like I

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Speaker 1: could just open a podcast by asking, what's boiling my

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Speaker 1: pig anuses or something along those lines. You know, I

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Speaker 1: we've we've we've achieved a lot of success over the

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Speaker 1: last five or six years here at behind the Mastards.

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Speaker 1: We've risen to the top of our field. You know,

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Speaker 1: we we're beloved by all influential, powerful, mighty. But that

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Speaker 1: that comes with a corresponding loss of power, you know,

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Speaker 1: the power to be yourself right, really, the power to

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Speaker 1: experiment goes away as one becomes a caricature of themselves.

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Speaker 1: And so I understand a lot of the troubles facing

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Speaker 1: President Biden today. That's that's really what I want to

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Speaker 1: say with the opening of this podcast. Wow, I was

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Speaker 1: thinking about Joe Biden because I was thinking about our

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Speaker 1: old what's boiling my pig anus'es intro and he his

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Speaker 1: skin does look a little bit like a boiled gainus.

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Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say that he peaked

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Speaker 2: around the same time that we peaked with our intros,

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Speaker 2: which is when you said what's cracking my peppers?

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Speaker 3: So many years ago?

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Speaker 4: That was one of your best intros ever. That was Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that was several lifetimes ago for all of us. But

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Speaker 4: it stuck it in my heart, you know.

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Speaker 1: M It's stuck in my heart the way that a

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Speaker 1: boiled pig anus sticks in a restaurant that does not

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Speaker 1: have enough money for calamari. Look it up, does really,

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Speaker 1: that's what they do.

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Speaker 4: That's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: They bred pig auses and fry them in places that

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Speaker 1: don't want to spend money on calamari. If you've ever

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Speaker 1: had cheap calamari bread, solid chance it's a pig aus.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I've I'm less bothered by that than

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Speaker 4: I would like to be. I feel like if I

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Speaker 4: got gotten in that way, and I've had some cheap calamari,

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Speaker 4: so I certainly have. You know, the texture just makes

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Speaker 4: sense to me in my mind, it makes sense.

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Speaker 5: M h.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've just never been more thrilled to have an

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Speaker 2: allergy to gluten. So, but I don't have to encounter

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Speaker 2: accidental piginus when I want calamari, and people who push.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you can use a gluten free breading, but I

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Speaker 1: would will not be very good.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 1: If people want to if people want to drill down

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Speaker 1: my political intentions here, I would say that Joe Biden's

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Speaker 1: skin has the look of pig ainus that was bredded

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Speaker 1: in a healthy, gluten free batter, whereas Trump's it's one

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Speaker 1: of those like it's like not not the good batter.

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Speaker 1: It's like the off brand Panco and it's just it's

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Speaker 1: loaded with gluten. You know, it's it's not not great

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Speaker 1: for you, as opposed to the healthy Joe Biden pig aus.

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Speaker 4: Okay, you've made your political stance abundantly clear.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Journalists are supposed to stay inscrutable, so I

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Speaker 1: hope this hasn't ruined my credibility.

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Speaker 4: No, people are gonna have to break this down second

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Speaker 4: by a second to know exactly when Robert Evans revealed his.

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Speaker 1: Biased Now, speaking of anuses, do you know who's a

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Speaker 1: big asshole? No, tell me the subject of our episodes today, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: because this week we are talking about doctor Laura slashinger.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right, baby, that's right. It's the Doctor

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Speaker 1: Laura episodes. Oh excited? What do you know about doctor Laura?

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Speaker 4: What do I know about doctor Laura? I mean, I

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Speaker 4: don't know. I feel like she is not someone that

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Speaker 4: I have had a close relationship with. I would say

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Speaker 4: I know that she is missus self help. I know

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Speaker 4: that she does. If my understanding is correct, she is

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Speaker 4: a self help person who primarily caters to women, but

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Speaker 4: also hates all women, including herself.

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Speaker 1: Is that right, Yeah, that would be a good way

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Speaker 1: of describing her. She is like the most hostile to

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Speaker 1: women of any major woman like media influencer that I

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Speaker 1: can recall.

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Speaker 4: There's like, really is saying something that there's a lot to.

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Speaker 1: Be said about, like the toxicity in some of the people,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the people that, for example, Oprah has

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Speaker 1: brought on her show. Right, there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: valid criticisms, but Oprah's her whole kind of thing is positivity.

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Speaker 1: You should feel good about yourself, you should feel good.

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Speaker 1: And you know, she mixes that in with some like

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Speaker 1: dangerous dieting tips and stuff, But that doesn't change the

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Speaker 1: fact that, oh, yeah.

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Speaker 4: She's trying to kill you. But like, also, I can

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Speaker 4: never really divorce myself with Oprah from the idea that

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Speaker 4: she doesn't I don't know that she like is pilled

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Speaker 4: enough by the culture that she pushes. Yeah that I'm

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Speaker 4: never fully sure if she knows how much she's hurting

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Speaker 4: her audience from what I've heard of lauras Schlessinger. She

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Speaker 4: doesn't really have an issue.

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Speaker 1: She she has a powerful issue, and I think dissecting

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Speaker 1: that is going to be an interesting part of this.

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Speaker 1: But first, that's the cold open. When we come back

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Speaker 1: more Doctor Laura, and we're back Jamie.

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Speaker 4: To be clear, I didn't mean that she has she

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Speaker 4: doesn't have an issue, huh. I meant that she doesn't

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Speaker 4: have an issue with hating her audience openly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, no, Well, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: would question that because what she hates is her callers.

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Speaker 1: The point of being in her audience is to hate

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Speaker 1: her callers with her, right. That's kind of the core

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Speaker 1: of Doctor Laura is she is she is providing you

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Speaker 1: with this rapid fire hose of women making bad decisions,

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Speaker 1: and even if they're not women making bad decisions, she

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Speaker 1: is going to like attack them before they have a

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Speaker 1: chance to fully explain their situation so that you feel

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Speaker 1: like they're women making bad decisions. It's we'll be talking

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Speaker 1: about this more. But what doctor Laura offered starting in

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Speaker 1: the late eighties and early nineties was the same thing

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Speaker 1: that we get on Twitter when you wake up every

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Speaker 1: morning and there's someone who had a really bad take

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Speaker 1: or said something like stupid or crazy, and the entire world,

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Speaker 1: or at least your entire online social circle, is making

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Speaker 1: fun of them. That is what doctor Laura offered. She

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Speaker 1: just offered the version of it that existed in a

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Speaker 1: world where the radio was the only way to really

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Speaker 1: get something like that. Everybody gets to have there. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, two hours hate listening to like the bad

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Speaker 1: life choices of primarily young women having kids too early

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Speaker 1: or who cheating on their boyfriends, serving their boyfriends cheat

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Speaker 1: on them, right, but that is what that is what

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Speaker 1: the appeal of her show was.

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Speaker 4: Okay, that makes sense. So I'm not extremely familiar with

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Speaker 4: the radio show, but that does make I feel like

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Speaker 4: there should be more examined about the radio host harassment

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Speaker 4: to internet harassment pipe line. I was recently talking to

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Speaker 4: the feminist vegan named Carol Adams, who is like awesome.

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Speaker 4: She read this book called The Sexual Politics of Meat,

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Speaker 4: so I'm sure she would love the piggy in this

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Speaker 4: discussion we just had.

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Speaker 1: As a courageous title. I'm going to give it to her.

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Speaker 1: You have to be confident in your book to throw

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Speaker 1: that out there. I really respect that she is unbelievably steel.

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Speaker 4: Like No. I met her at a hot dog convention.

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Speaker 4: She's really fucking I.

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Speaker 1: Met her at a hot dog Amazing stuff, Jamie, Look.

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Speaker 4: I'm coming in hot today. I met her at a

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Speaker 4: hot dog convention and she was, you know, she's famously

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Speaker 4: a vegan and was trying to, you know, sort of

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Speaker 4: preach the gospel about vegan hot dogs. But I was

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Speaker 4: talking to her about how she is because she is

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Speaker 4: in her seventies, I think, and she had been harassed

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Speaker 4: for big you know, people hate feminists and vegans, and

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Speaker 4: so they always came after her because the title of

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Speaker 4: her book is so cool and so it was like

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Speaker 4: she had to deal with Rush Limbaugh harassment in you know,

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Speaker 4: the nineties and then like the warped like Jordan Peterson

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Speaker 4: version of that same harassment. But it's the same playbook.

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Speaker 1: And if you're wondering, listener, I'm going to guess doctor

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Speaker 1: Laura is a big enough name. I think probably a

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Speaker 1: majority of people are familiar with who she is and

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Speaker 1: broad but she she was is still to this day,

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Speaker 1: although now mostly on podcasts, a major radio talk show

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Speaker 1: host whose primary thing was giving women advice, not just women,

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Speaker 1: but mostly women. Advice on their lives, right, and she

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Speaker 1: was very mean about it. She is a precursor to

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Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson, Doctor Jordan Peterson. I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: doesn't become a celebrity without Doctor Laura, but it's a

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Speaker 1: harder road for him because she did.

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Speaker 6: It.

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Speaker 1: Had a major role in building a place not just

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Speaker 1: in the media but in the right wing for a

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Speaker 1: wildly successful like hop therapist who is primarily telling you

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Speaker 1: you need to clean your room. Right, that's doctor Laura.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's Jordan Peterson. Now he takes things.

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Speaker 4: Book girl washer face, Sophie, do you remember that one?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? No, doctor Laura's ten. Yeah, that's a different one.

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Speaker 4: I read it.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Laura's book, which we'll hear from this episode is

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Speaker 1: ten stupid things women do to mess up their lives? Right.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, I am.

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Speaker 1: Very yes, Goleseller. So I want to get into this.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about who doctor Laura meant to

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Speaker 1: me first, because I we're gonna do something a little

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Speaker 1: different here. We're going to play some interstittal clips from

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Speaker 1: her show up through like the two thousands to the

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Speaker 1: modern era as we talk about her past, because I

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Speaker 1: would love to show you some of those very early

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Speaker 1: from the seventies and eighties radio clips, but they don't

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Speaker 1: exist anymore. The vast majority of her early career is

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Speaker 1: lost media.

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Speaker 2: Jill Jill did not listen to this pot to her

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Speaker 2: radio show, Jamie Jamie's Mom.

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Speaker 4: No, No, I feel lucky that my mom has a

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Speaker 4: pretty good radar for women who hate other women and

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Speaker 4: generally doesn't fuck with them. We were our radio personality

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Speaker 4: when I was growing up. Who I think is still

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Speaker 4: in the mix is Delilah. We were just like listening

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Speaker 4: to you know, and that wasn't even pretending to give

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Speaker 4: women advice. It was just people calling being like, hey,

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Speaker 4: can I send you know a can we play a

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Speaker 4: Seline Dion song for my husband who hates me? And

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Speaker 4: Delilah's like, yes, queen, let's do it. And she's still

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Speaker 4: on the air. I loved her. She played a lot

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Speaker 4: of Leanne rhymes and Tracy Chapman, so that was my Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I feel like I kind of lucked out where I

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Speaker 4: never had to listen to doctor Laura. I feel like

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Speaker 4: she's inevitable you will encounter her, But no, I never

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Speaker 4: was around people who listened to her.

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Speaker 2: I unfortunately did because we carpooled, and I always wanted

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Speaker 2: to be closest to the adult because I had anxiety,

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Speaker 2: and there was definitely some doctor law that in my

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Speaker 2: childhood from various different adults driving to and from school. Robert,

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Speaker 2: want to tell us your history.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so doctor Laura is still around and still doing

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Speaker 1: her thing, which is primarily kind of feeding our worst

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Speaker 1: impulses to want to feel like all of the people

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Speaker 1: around us are somehow not pulling their share. Right, This

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Speaker 1: is the impulse that a lot of conservatism works off of.

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Speaker 1: But it's also pretty what you see it in a

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Speaker 1: lot of leftists. You see it in everybody, right, this

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Speaker 1: idea that like, somehow things are tough for me, and

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Speaker 1: I have this feeling that for other people they're easier,

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Speaker 1: and that's not fair. There's somebody grifting off of me,

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Speaker 1: and they're you know, people feel this way because it's true,

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Speaker 1: and it's true because like, there's a tiny number of

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Speaker 1: incredibly wealthy people who exist and who make themselves wealthier,

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Speaker 1: sucking value out of the rest of us. Right, These

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Speaker 1: are the Jack Welch ass finance schools and stead jobs

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Speaker 1: want to bees who are financializing our lives to hell

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Speaker 1: and hollowing out this country for short term profit, doing

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Speaker 1: stuff like buying up businesses, loading them with debt, and

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Speaker 1: then you know, carrying out massive layoffs and reaping windfall

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Speaker 1: profits for basically destroying people's lives.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's you know, that's true that like, those

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Speaker 1: people are out there and they're not putting in the

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Speaker 1: same amount of work that you are, and they're kind

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Speaker 1: of ruining everything. But that's not immediately obvious to everybody.

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Speaker 1: And the role, the valuable role that someone like doctor

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Speaker 1: Laura plays in our media ecosystem is coming in and saying,

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Speaker 1: you're right to feel like somebody's taking advantage of you.

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Speaker 1: And here I'm going to play a bunch of like

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Speaker 1: selectively curated audio of people who are having too many

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Speaker 1: kids that they can't support, or you know, getting loaded

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Speaker 1: up on debt or doing other irresponsible things, right, and

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Speaker 1: these are the people that you should you know, you

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Speaker 1: can spend some time today getting angry at these people

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Speaker 1: and then go about your day and I will throw

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Speaker 1: out some simple advice about how everyone just needs to

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Speaker 1: take more responsibility for themselves.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: That is where doctor Laura came into the picture. And

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Speaker 1: it's you know, she helps to establish she's not the

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Speaker 1: first person in this, but she comes in alongside the first, right,

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Speaker 1: she is a contemporary of Rush Limbaugh. He hits a

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Speaker 1: bit or like literally just a couple of years before

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Speaker 1: she does in terms of like becoming a major figure.

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Speaker 1: Morton Downey Junior, who we've talked about on the show

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Speaker 1: was another major figure and like right around the same

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Speaker 1: period of time. And her job was to give a

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Speaker 1: lot of our moms, including my moms, people who had

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Speaker 1: hard lives, who were like angry and frustrated because shit

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Speaker 1: isn't fair, somebody to blame that was had no actual power, right,

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Speaker 1: and nothing really like that there was no harm to

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Speaker 1: the people who are like, you know, actually doing bad

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Speaker 1: shit in our world if this person gets targeted, right,

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Speaker 1: it's the same shit with like freaking out over well

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Speaker 1: fair moms, as opposed to corporate wage theft, which is

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Speaker 1: or freaking out over corporate or over shoplifting over like

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Speaker 1: corporate wage theft, which massively exceeds the value of everything's

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Speaker 1: shoplifted in this country by a factor Yeah, several times over.

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Speaker 4: Everyone should shoplift. It's built into their budget to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And so when she's giving someone to blame, because I

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Speaker 4: feel like every generation has a figure like this for

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Speaker 4: women of like actually, I mean I feel like the

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Speaker 4: generation after it's different, but like Sheryl Sandberg feels like

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Speaker 4: a figure that is like, Oh, there is a clear

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Speaker 4: solution to this, and it's you're the problem, and you

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Speaker 4: just need to act wealthier than you are and like

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Speaker 4: forget any systemic oppression exists, and then you'll just.

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Speaker 1: Lean into it, Whereas doctor Laura's argument would be like,

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Speaker 1: you don't need to lean in. You need to quit

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Speaker 1: your job and raise your kids as Yeah, return to

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Speaker 1: traditional gender roles and somehow that will make things fine.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 1: It was one of those I think because my mom

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Speaker 1: liked her so much. I remember her for a long time.

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Speaker 1: She's part of the cultural background noise of the world

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Speaker 1: that I was raised in. Like when we would get

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Speaker 1: in the car, it would either be the car talk guys.

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Speaker 1: If it was my dad, who were broadly neutral, let's

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Speaker 1: sayral yes, click and clap, click and clap. The Tampa

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Speaker 1: Brothers I think was their name. Yeah, unbelievably midwestern. Probably

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Speaker 1: has a lot to do with my incredible Midwest appeal

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Speaker 1: to this day. And then there was doctor Laura, who

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Speaker 1: my mom loved. My mom was kind of a frustrated person,

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Speaker 1: like her entire first career plan had collapsed. She had

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Speaker 1: tried to start two businesses and they had collapsed. She

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Speaker 1: spent most of my early life in terrible debt and

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Speaker 1: feeling like her hard work had not been rewarded. And

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Speaker 1: I think she there was tremendous appeal to her and

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Speaker 1: finding people who were irresponsible and having this kind of

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Speaker 1: ARCon of conservative values. Doctor Laura yell at them because

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Speaker 1: she felt somehow like people like that were responsible for

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Speaker 1: her failures. Right that that's the impression that I have gotten.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really at the time. You know, as a kid,

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Speaker 1: I thought doctor Laura had had it all figured out, right,

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Speaker 1: because my mom said that about her. Weirdly enough, like

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Speaker 1: me starting to reevaluate her happened when I watched a

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Speaker 1: Fraser episode at like age fourteen or fifteen.

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Speaker 4: He's doing the work.

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Speaker 1: He did the work, he did the way. Thank you

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Speaker 1: Kelsey Robert, Thank you kel He was always listening. There's

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Speaker 1: a there's a great episode of Fraser where they parody

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Speaker 1: doctor Laura with a character named doctor Nora played by

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Speaker 1: the great Christine Baranski.

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Speaker 4: Who was one I remember this. Oh my gosh, see

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Speaker 4: now you're talking about way.

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Speaker 1: And I'm a huge Christine Baranski fan. Nobody, there's not

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Speaker 1: anybody today. He's got like a voice like that, and

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Speaker 1: he like, oh god, she was great.

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Speaker 4: So oh, she's very much alive. She's with at Emmy's.

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Speaker 4: I just saw her and Mamma Mia, here we go again.

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Speaker 4: She's great.

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Speaker 1: I must just have been I hope she's living her

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Speaker 1: best life. I must just have missed the stuff she's

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Speaker 1: been doing more recently. But she's They did a good

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Speaker 1: episode about her, and it made me kind of because

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Speaker 1: the point of the episode is that, like, she gives

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Speaker 1: all this advice on how you should live your life

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Speaker 1: and has absolutely followed none of it, and it turns

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Speaker 1: out that's extremely accurate. Like the story of doctor Laura

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Speaker 1: is a woman who did the opposite of the things

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Speaker 1: that she advises women to do and gained tremendous wealth

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Speaker 1: and influence as a result of doing all of the

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Speaker 1: things she tells people not to do. She is the

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Speaker 1: clearest example I found of somebody finding a ladder up

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Speaker 1: and then cutting that ladder out like behind them, throwing

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Speaker 1: it down to the ground.

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Speaker 4: That's fascinating, I mean, because yeah, there's so many flavors

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Speaker 4: of this kind of person where I feel like I

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Speaker 4: didn't have a doctor Laura in the background of my childhood,

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Speaker 4: but I definitely hadn't had Oprah in the background of

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Speaker 4: my entire childhood, right, And like her, it felt more

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Speaker 4: like her whole thing was like, you are enough, except

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Speaker 4: not really, not.

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Speaker 1: Really, you are enough, but you're too fat, Like yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's yeah, but you.

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Speaker 4: Look like shit and you're doing every and like yeah,

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Speaker 4: and and but but you know, I guess where they

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Speaker 4: kind of meet is the fear mongering around class and

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Speaker 4: around like there's just a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of that. Yeah, And it's because of that that

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Speaker 1: I have have triangulated my own position as a cultural

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Speaker 1: influencer to you look like shit, but that's fine. Look

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Speaker 1: at the world. The world is not doing well enough

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Speaker 1: for you to owe it looking better than you do, right, Like, yeah, you.

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Speaker 4: Are enough, but make no mistake, you look fucking bad.

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Speaker 1: You look like trash, but the world is trash, and

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Speaker 1: so like you. In a way, it's camouflage, right, It's.

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Speaker 4: Important to blend the occasion.

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Speaker 1: You're like one of those chameleons, right that can like,

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Speaker 1: blend into the tree behind them. It's a survival method.

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Speaker 1: It keeps the birds from eating you.

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Speaker 4: And I telling you that you need to look like shit,

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Speaker 4: listen to your body saying.

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Speaker 1: It's yeah, yeah, help blend in, blend into the trash

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Speaker 1: fire around you. So, you know, I once I saw

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Speaker 1: that Frasier episode, I changed my mind on Doctor Laura more,

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Speaker 1: and I started to change my mind on a lot

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Speaker 1: of other stuff. It was, you know, it wasn't just

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Speaker 1: that World of Warcraft played a weirdly large role in that.

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Speaker 1: But I stopped really paying attention to doctor Laura when

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Speaker 1: I was like sixteen or seventeen, and as an adult,

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Speaker 1: there wasn't really much of reason to pay attention to

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Speaker 1: her period, and so I hadn't really thought of her

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Speaker 1: in close to like about twenty years until I started

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Speaker 1: doing research for these episodes. So, like I normally do,

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Speaker 1: I just started like Google, I just googled her name

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Speaker 1: and popped on news right just to see, like, what

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Speaker 1: is there anything still happening? Like, I honestly didn't know

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Speaker 1: if she was alive when I started these episodes, and

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Speaker 1: the first thing I read about her as an adult

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Speaker 1: in the modern era were these lines from the opening

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Speaker 1: of a CNA article before she uttered the inWORD before

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Speaker 1: her remarks uncheated on wives. Before the controversies over homosexuality

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00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: and religion morality, Laura Slushinger was considered a breath of

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Speaker 1: fresh airh that's a lot.

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Speaker 4: That's a lead.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, okay, and they should it shouldn't be inward,

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Speaker 1: it should be in words because she says it like

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Speaker 1: eleven times during the explosion on air. That kind of

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Speaker 1: lost her her job or caused her to quit her job.

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Speaker 1: But that's also not quite what it sounds like.

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Speaker 4: And was was that recently?

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Speaker 1: This is that's twenty eleven, Jamie, Oh, that is so recent?

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Speaker 4: Wow?

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Speaker 1: But yes, also depends on what you consider recent. Yeah,

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00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,920
Speaker 1: you can tell it's a while ago because she didn't

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Speaker 1: rebrand as like a canceled figure. She just kind of

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00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 1: like found a new got into podcasting. Like it's a

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00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 1: mix of She was clearly blazing a trail because that

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Speaker 1: is what a lot of other people did when they

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Speaker 1: got caught saying the N word right to start a podcast,

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Speaker 1: but she also didn't do like a real media campaign.

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Speaker 1: She's actually kind of interesting as a right wing figure.

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Speaker 1: She's never embraced the political side of conservatism to the

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Speaker 1: extent that is common for people who are similarly influential. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think it might just be that she got really

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Speaker 1: rich early enough that she's like, I don't need that.

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00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: I don't need to talk to those people. They all

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Speaker 1: seem unpleasant, like I'm a piece of shit, but I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to enjoy my mansion.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that is. I wish more people who

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Speaker 4: were pieces of shit back in the day simply disappeared,

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Speaker 4: because sometimes it does feel like that is the best

408
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Speaker 4: case scenario.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it really is. I want to continue with

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00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 1: the next paragraph from that see in an article because

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00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 1: it gives an idea of the kind of show that

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00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 1: doctor Laura ran and still runs for decades for those

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Speaker 1: of you who didn't grow up on it. Quote. Despite

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Speaker 1: the fact that many consider Laura Slashing the dragon Lady

415
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: of talk radio, some of us can't help but admire her.

416
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 1: Noted a decidedly mixed nineteen ninety nine consideration of her

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00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: in Salon. She is snippish, overbearing, and often insulting, but

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Speaker 1: anybody who has the temerity to call into her program

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Speaker 1: knows what they are going to get, especially if they

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Speaker 1: plead ignorance or innocence. Her message stop whining, sometimes delivered

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Speaker 1: in just those blunt words. It was a message taken

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00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: to heart by more than eighteen million radio listeners a

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Speaker 1: week at her peak, people who looked at doctor Lor

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Speaker 1: to set them straight in their relationships, ethical disputes, and

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00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 1: moral conundrums.

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Speaker 4: And well, yeah, if there's any evidence needed that our

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00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 4: entire country has a humiliation kink.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I've been thinking about that a lot, because

429
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: before I dug back into this, you know, literally the

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00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: day that I started this, there was like a viral

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Speaker 1: tweet that was someone being like it was one of

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00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: those like people on TikTok or blue Sky or whatever,

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00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 1: like overly medicalizing stuff and like making statements about like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I didn't realize this bad behavior is just

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00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,719
Speaker 1: something that people do when they have autism, and it's like,

436
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 1: I don't know that get you get this stuff where

437
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 1: it's like you get this with ADHD too, where it's

438
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: like you just talk about stuff people do, right, Like

439
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 1: it's not like this is this is just a this

440
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: is just a behavior. It's not like necessarily related to

441
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: any kind of medical condition, like you're talking about procrastination

442
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: or whatever, like just we don't need to. And I

443
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: started to get into this like annoyance sloop where I'm

444
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, people do need to take responsibility.

445
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: And then I realized what was happening, which was that

446
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 1: the entirety of the out like the algorithms that make Twitter, well,

447
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: it's not really profitable, but the whole attempt to make

448
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 1: Twitter and every other social media thing profitable relies on

449
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: putting stuff in front of you that you would not

450
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: have seen on your own that will make you frustrated

451
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: and angry. And so it's taking what in reality is

452
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: some young person working through and thinking about the world

453
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 1: and not having any sort of actual harmful impact on me,

454
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: Like somebody wrongfully crediting a belief to you know, autism

455
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: or whatever has no impact on me or anyone else.

456
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: It's a person talking through shit on the Internet. But

457
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 1: the Internet runs off of churning that up and putting

458
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: it in front of people to get them angry and

459
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: to get them talking about it and making fun of

460
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 1: that person and attacking right, like, that's that's the business,

461
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: and that's doctor Laura's business, And so I guess, yeah.

462
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 4: Wow, yeah she is a one woman algorithm. Yeah, where

463
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 4: it's like not based on a sincere desire to educate

464
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 4: or like it's based on like shaming people in a

465
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 4: public forum is fun.

466
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the same way, like, yes, some lady who

467
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: I don't know has a child with a different man

468
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: while cheating on her boyfriend or her husband or whatever,

469
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: Like is that a problem for the people involved in

470
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: that relationship?

471
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 2: Sure?

472
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 1: Does that in any way really harm me? Whatever republic

473
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 1: might say about welfare, No, that is actually not something

474
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: that I should care about at all. Like, there are

475
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: so many actual problems that will actually harm me out there.

476
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: But like, if you can put people's eyes on you know,

477
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: this person's bad behavior is going to like you're gonna

478
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: wind up paying for it or anything like your eyes

479
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: on the shit, that doesn't matter.

480
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially when it's like codified as like this person's

481
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 4: bad behavior, you're like they're a contextless bad behavior.

482
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, that's.

483
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 4: Just like, well, I don't know why why would some

484
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 4: why would this happen to someone? You know? And that

485
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 4: sort of question, which I feel like is consistent throughout

486
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 4: I mean, not even just right wing influential people, but

487
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 4: you know, just the general classism of and racism and

488
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 4: all of this stuff that goes through the way that

489
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 4: we I mean, Sophie, I'm thinking about like I used

490
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,959
Speaker 4: to watch sixteen and Pregnant on MTV like no one's business,

491
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 4: and that feels like I don't know if that exists

492
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 4: without doctor Laura, because there is like a clear precedent

493
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 4: for like shaming young usually poor pregnant girls. Yes, just

494
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 4: out of context. Well they must have done it because

495
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 4: they're poor.

496
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's the same And it's the same thing

497
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: on the internet, right, Like it's a lot of these

498
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: kind of like two minutes hate come around and like

499
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: let's find somebody who again it's generally like a young

500
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: person working shit out. And are they are they talking

501
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: about like psychiatry and psychology in ways that are like

502
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: not within the medical you know, mainstream or accurate? Are

503
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: they sometimes causing problems for themselves by like doing the

504
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: weird tumbler brain shit where people like lock themselves into

505
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: an ideological box. Sure, but that's what young people always do, right,

506
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: is figure out shit in slow, awkward, juttering ways. And

507
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: it's honestly natural way for that.

508
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like on a certain scale, it that does get scary,

509
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 4: but like, how is the solution to publicly shame them,

510
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 4: which I feel like, especially now, almost makes it a

511
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 4: certainty that they will double down on it.

512
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 1: There's the rightest thing I've ever seen written about the

513
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: internet is that article we all need to know less

514
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: about each other? Like, yes, yes, some of this should not.

515
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 1: You shouldn't be aware of what a bunch of like

516
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: teenagers are are, how they're how they are trying to

517
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: process their lives and identities. Yet like, give them time

518
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: to do that. I got time to do that. I

519
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: don't know, Jamie, You're kind of right in the middle

520
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: of the age groups. But you've got more time than

521
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: kids today. Get it seems like.

522
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 4: I got I got time.

523
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, you should all take some time to listen

524
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: to these advertisers.

525
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 5: Wow.

526
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah that was good. That was good so bad smooth,

527
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. See this is again. You can't

528
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: teach this right, you can't train this, this is this

529
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 1: is I'm pure, I'm hooked up to the Cali Yuga.

530
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: I am mainlining accashic truths and that's why I'm able

531
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: to add pivots.

532
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 4: So well, folks, God is speaking through you in this moment.

533
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: In a way, I am God, Jamie, in a way,

534
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: I am God. Speaking of God, Doctor Laura was God

535
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: to a certain kind of very frustrated middle class woman

536
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: like my mom in the nineteen nineties. And I want

537
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: to start by playing a clip for you of her

538
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: show Just See You Again. If you either don't remember

539
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: or you didn't spend a lot a lot of time

540
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: stuck in traffic with your mom listening to Doctor Laura,

541
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: this is what her show was like. And here's a sample.

542
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 6: I am unsure of how to continue on in my

543
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 6: relationship with my mother. I found out last September that

544
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 6: my dad, the man who raised me, is not my

545
00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 6: biological father for the very first time, and it has

546
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 6: obviously caused her a risk between my mother and I.

547
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 5: Why Why Why was the guy who raised you nice?

548
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 5: Yes he is, so let me understand this. Don't babble

549
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 5: at me, so let me understand this. You want to

550
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 5: dump a mother who made you with one guy obviously

551
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 5: could not have been the greatest guy in the universe.

552
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 5: He wasn't there, and then she found a nice guy

553
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 5: to raise you, and you're pissed at her. What in

554
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 5: the hell is wrong with you?

555
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 6: I'm upset because she lied to me about it, So what,

556
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 6: so what?

557
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 5: Who gives a shit? That's her private life. She gave

558
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 5: you a wonderful man to raise you, whom you consider

559
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 5: your daddy. What if you had been adopted? Who the

560
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 5: hell cares? She did the wrong thing with a jerk,

561
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 5: and then she did the right thing with the guy

562
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 5: who raised you. I seriously would rather smack you across

563
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 5: the head than anything else right now, you ungrateful little twid.

564
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 1: So I want to break down what's happening here. And

565
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: I picked that because this is an instance where the

566
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: point that she is making is hard to argue with, Like, yes,

567
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: if that guy raised you from childhood, that is who

568
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: you should see as your father, Like, and that's not bad,

569
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: right that, Like, there's nothing wrong with a marriage working

570
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: out with someone deciding that like, oh this the biological

571
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: parent of this kid, I can't raise them with and

572
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: doing something else that's not wrong. But what's actually happened here.

573
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: This girl didn't come in and say fuck my mom

574
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: and fuck my fake dad. She came in being like

575
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: my mom didn't tell me the truth for years. And

576
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: I feel like this is really complicated for me and

577
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: doctor Laura didn't let her finish explaining the issue, even

578
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: immediately drilled down and accused her of saying and she

579
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: never actually said that her the guy who raised her

580
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 1: wasn't she didn't consider him a father. All of that

581
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: is stuff that Laura put into that conversation in order

582
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: to create, because that's what she has to do, right.

583
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: You can't have there's not enough people who are actually

584
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: unsympathetic and shitty calling. You have to make them unsympathetic

585
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: and shitty. In the first ten seconds of the call,

586
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: so Laura hears this is a young woman calling in

587
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: because her mom has just admitted that her dad is

588
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: not her biological dad, and Laura, without the caller saying

589
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: it starts, invents an issue in the issue being that, Okay,

590
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: so this woman is attacking her mom and rejecting the

591
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: guy who raised her, which this lady never claimed to

592
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: be doing. Right, Laura invents the problem in order to

593
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: call this woman an idiot right in.

594
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 4: Like in no time at all, I really shot like

595
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 4: it is. You can tell at this point that what

596
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 4: she's been at at minimum fifth she cares yeah, yeah,

597
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 4: because it's like she's locked in and she knows I mean,

598
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 4: and I'm sure she's invented this problem for other people before.

599
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I wanted to play it because people

600
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: have this idea that it's like when I say that

601
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: she's giving you people to hate, she's creating those people.

602
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: Most of her callers are not people who have done

603
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: anything wrong. There's nothing wrong when your mom tells you

604
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: that your dad was not your biological father, with being like, wow,

605
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: this is a lot to process, and I have a

606
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: lot of conflicting feelings about it. But that's not a

607
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: profitable it's not profitable like help that person, like a

608
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: therapist would think through and talk through those conflicting feelings.

609
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: It's profitable to pretend that this person is shitty, yell

610
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: at her on the air, and then move on to

611
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: the next collar. Right, So, now that we're all suitably

612
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: ready to learn about a bad person, I want to

613
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: talk about her biographer, who is one of the major

614
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: sources of this episode. She has the incredible name Vicky Bain,

615
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: which is a great name for a person who writes

616
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: unauthorized biographies of media figures, and she is the author

617
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: of Doctor Laura the Unauthorized Biography, A revealing look at

618
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: the hidden life of radio phenomenon Doctor Laura Slashinger, which

619
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: for reasons I cannot explain, has an anarchist flag as

620
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: its background. We got this book cover. It's a series

621
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: of choices here kind of it's like very a very

622
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: distinct red and black blocky thing going on there.

623
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 4: Ricky Bain does sound like a comic book villain's girlfriend.

624
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: In Yeah, that's right. Wow, No, God's no talk radio.

625
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: So Vicky L. Bain was at one point at least

626
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: a correspondent for People magazine. Google tells me that she

627
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: has a husband and two sons and lives in Colorado.

628
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: She was also the author of two She's the author

629
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: of two unauthorized biographies, one being the Doctor Laura Biography,

630
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: which I've read, and the second, which I have not read,

631
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: is The Lives of Danielle Steele and appears to be

632
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: an unauthorized biography of Danielle Steele.

633
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 4: Wow, I am not disinterested in that.

634
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: I will seeah M, I think it's I found the

635
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: Doctor Laura book on the Internet archive. You can probably

636
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: find the Danielle Steele one there too, but I haven't checked.

637
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: I will say, while this book is invaluable because we

638
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: just really don't have a lot of other good sources

639
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: about her early life that talk to a lot of

640
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: people who know her. This is a really hateful book

641
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: in a way that, even as someone who doesn't like

642
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: doctor Laura, I had to go this is a little

643
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: ethically questionable, particularly because a decent chunk of it, not

644
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: most of it, but a major source is a guy

645
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: who leaked nude photos of doctor Laura to the news.

646
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: Oh my god, So this is a sleazy booker. Yeah,

647
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: I just I need to set that expectation before we

648
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: get into this.

649
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 3: Right.

650
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 4: It is like one of the great wrinkles of the

651
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 4: world that horrible people can be treated.

652
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: Like shit, and this this Vicky kind of treats doctor

653
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: Laura likes shit. On the other hand, doctor Laura treats

654
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,919
Speaker 1: everybody likes shit. And I'm not saying that makes it right.

655
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: It's just this is not two wrongs making a right.

656
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: It's just two wrongs making a podcast. So hopefully you

657
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: will all find that entertaining, and.

658
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 4: So make sure to yeah, buy the product that on

659
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 4: this great show, because there is no ethical solution we're presenting.

660
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: No, it's like everything else in capitalism, folks. So yeah,

661
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: it's good stuff. The book also feel features very fucked

662
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: up stories from Doctor Laura's mother, who hated Laura and

663
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: who Laura says was a terrible person. Although maybe that's

664
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: Laura being a terrible person. It's impossible for us to know.

665
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: But yeah, it is a weird experience reading a biography

666
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: of a bad person and still going like, Wow, this

667
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: book's kind of mean. But I got to give Vicky credit.

668
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: That's an impressive achievement.

669
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, shout out, Vicky. Can't wait to hear you, Rake,

670
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 4: Dan Yelle Steele.

671
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: Take you down a peg.

672
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 4: My aunts will be found devastated.

673
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I assumed she was like forty people writing

674
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: in a factory.

675
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, kind of like a Carolyn Keen kind of Yeah,

676
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 4: Like he knows she's writing Nacy Drew books.

677
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the Doctor Laura's story starts with two people

678
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: she did not like, her father, Monty and her mother Yolanda.

679
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 1: Back during the Great Dub Dub Dose, Monty was a soldier.

680
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: He had a pretty serious World War Two. He gets

681
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: promoted from corporal to lieutenant, which means a lot of

682
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 1: people died ahead of him, Right, That's not a normal

683
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: progression in a military career. At the end of the war,

684
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: he was stationed in Italy, where he met Yolanda, who

685
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: was a native Italian and one assumes looking for a

686
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: way out of her war torn country. Vicki writes that

687
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: Yolanda met Monty while he was quote serving in a

688
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: disputed territory of Yugoslavia. So this would be an area

689
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: that had a particularly nasty World War two. If you

690
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: know the Balkans, World War two was not a great

691
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: time to be anywhere near the fucking Balkans. Yeah, so

692
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: they Europe after World War Two. She comes back with

693
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: Monty to the East Coast, where they decide to have kids.

694
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: This is a messy move and it's going to be

695
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 1: unpopular with most of the people in Monty's life because

696
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: Monty's family is Jewish and traditional enough that they do

697
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: not like the idea of their son marrying a gentile girl. Nevertheless,

698
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: on January sixteenth, nineteen forty seven, Laura Catherine Sleshinger became

699
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: one of the very first baby Boomers.

700
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 4: Wow, like the original Boomers. That's really impressive. Imagine first way,

701
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 4: very traumatized people having a super villain of a child.

702
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, two people who have been utterly shattered by war,

703
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 1: coming back and having a child into a family who,

704
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: for reasons of racism, rejects them and their child. A

705
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: real recipe for a healthy person who's going to be

706
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: a good christ.

707
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 4: I don't understand what happened.

708
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great, Okay.

709
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 4: So she's born like this in four seven.

710
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: In forty seven in Brooklyn and raised in Long Island.

711
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: Monty eventually gets a job as a civil engineer, but

712
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: his family never accepted his wife and kind of didn't

713
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: accept his daughter as an adult. Laura wrote this of

714
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: the troubled union. All hell broke loose when my father's

715
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: mother went on a relentless attack against the Shiksa, which

716
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: means in Yiddish, the non Jewish wife of a Jewish man.

717
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: My grandmother tried to do everything she could to get

718
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 1: rid of my mother and turned much of the family

719
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: into rejecting her us. When I was two and a half,

720
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: my mother took me back to Italy, probably to get

721
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: a break from this cruelty. My mother's mother and father

722
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: were dead by this time. She was not close to

723
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: her brother, and her older sister had been killed by

724
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: the Nazis. On the first day she joined the underground resistance.

725
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: I like to think that I channel her courage. You

726
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: do not, Laura.

727
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 4: Look, no, sorry about that.

728
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: Whatever you wherever you stand politically, sitting on a microphone

729
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: is not the same as dying as soon as you

730
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 1: join the anti fascist resistance in Italy. Very different things.

731
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: One of them pays millions of dollars in your case,

732
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: doctor Laura, so not quite the same.

733
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and one of you is alive at age seventy seven.

734
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, one of you is still alive. You did

735
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: not get murdered by Mussolini's buddies. Yeah, anyway, great stuff.

736
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: Laura's childhood, though, was definitely not warm. Her parents had

737
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: little time to spend on their daughter's emotional health, and

738
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: because she was half Jewish, she was ostracized by other

739
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 1: kids in her neighborhood. Again, this is the United States

740
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: in the forties and fifties, right, Like, it's a big

741
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,919
Speaker 1: deal that she is half Jewish, Right Like, people make

742
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:42,720
Speaker 1: that a big deal.

743
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 4: The part of the episodes where you make me feel

744
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 4: bad for the Yeah, the initial wound of the fucked

745
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 4: up person. It's always the hardest part, even more than

746
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 4: the fucked up part.

747
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: Look, very few people are never sympathetic. Right, there's a

748
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: point in the Hitler story where he's just a boy

749
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,479
Speaker 1: trying to take care of his mom as she dies

750
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 1: from cancer, and his his Jewish doctor notes decades later

751
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: after he's the furor he had never seen a boy

752
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: so sad. Right, that's just life. You just got to

753
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: accept that if you actually care about understanding people.

754
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 4: Well, I know, I've been on this show for a

755
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 4: million years and it still makes me sad. I sure, baby, baby,

756
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 4: doctor Laura, God, Laura. Yeah, it really it does feel

757
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 4: motivating at least, like if there's a kid that is

758
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 4: very much lost in your you know, in your like,

759
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 4: be a person they can talk to, because she could

760
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 4: be preventing a future doctor.

761
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: Person you can talk to, make them feel valued, make

762
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: them feel like they have a place to be. And

763
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: every day or so say never get on the radio.

764
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: Avoid the radio.

765
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 4: No one ever told us that, and that and that

766
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 4: was we didn't have that person.

767
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but come accountant or something. Yeah, that's what she needed.

768
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: That's what well a lot of kids of this position,

769
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: needy is subtle support and also don't don't become a

770
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: radio host. So her primary impressions of her social peers

771
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: in this period were that they responded to her with

772
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: rejection and punishment. Those are her words, and this included

773
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: physical violence at times. At home, she was also subject

774
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: to physical violence at times because her father was both

775
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: physically and mentally domineering. She later told a reporter that

776
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: quote she was afraid to open her mouth because he

777
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: would scream at her and smack her. At the same time,

778
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: she credited her father with instilling in her the drive

779
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: to succeed. Laura told another reporter from Red Book that

780
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: her dad was quote real good at getting angry, but

781
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: he was also good at telling me what was right

782
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: and what was wrong. I think he could have cared

783
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: more about the impact of his behavior instead of feeling

784
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: entitled to act because that's what he thought or felt.

785
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,439
Speaker 1: She claimed that he was the kind of argumentative guy

786
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: who would latch onto disagreements like a remora, who was

787
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: almost looking for disagreements, right.

788
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 4: And very specific fish to sorry, yeah.

789
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. That's the kind of fish that her dad

790
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: was and the kind of fish that she becomes.

791
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: Right.

792
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: Laura grows up desperate to make a mark and prove

793
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: herself to be someone special, and likes this sort of

794
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: person sometimes does She also winds up obsessed with the

795
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: rules right, what is fair? What is right and wrong?

796
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: Based on what are the rules? And so as a

797
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: little girl, she would race to the principal's office whenever

798
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: she saw other kids doing something bad, like vandalizing encyclopedias

799
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: in the library. For gin Z listeners, and Encyclopedia is

800
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: like Wikipedia, but without all like it's not mostly Star

801
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: Wars lore, so other words, In other words, it's like

802
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: a useless Wikipedia.

803
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 4: Yeah. If Wikipedia couldn't be edited and looked and smelled

804
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 4: like shit like something about the smell of Encyclopedia's was

805
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 4: always very very sty.

806
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: There's nothing about one piece in it, so you kids

807
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: would wouldn't have any reason to read it.

808
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 4: Wow, you really think I could make an animation to

809
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 4: the youth again?

810
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, the gin Z kids know me. Yeah, they understand

811
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: that I'm plugged in.

812
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 4: Baby Uncle Robert is on one today, that's right.

813
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: The Slushingers were on the tip of the spear when

814
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: it came to White Flight, and by the late nineteen

815
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: fifties they had left Brooklyn for a long Island suburb.

816
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: Laura was the traditional gifted kid, pushed by an overbearing

817
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 1: mother to succeed at school for an idea of the

818
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: kind of stubbornness that she developed. As a result of this,

819
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 1: Laura's mom made her practice piano an hour a day,

820
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: and Laura's rebellion was she would only practice if she

821
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: could start exactly on the hour or exactly on the

822
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: quarter hour, So if it was like one oh one,

823
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: she have to wait thirteen minutes until it was one

824
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,919
Speaker 1: fifteen to do her hour of practice.

825
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 4: So I am like, you know, TikTok arm chair diagnosing here,

826
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 4: But it sounds like she she may be a young

827
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 4: OCD girl, having been there myself, like you have to

828
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 4: do a certain thing at a certain time or we

829
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 4: will die. Uh. That has also like in it, like

830
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 4: in addition to it, it seems like that's her instinct, but

831
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 4: also that there is this uh fixation on the idea

832
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 4: of order, which explains going to the teachers for stuff,

833
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 4: which explains but like that's like reinforced, like the idea

834
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 4: of order is reinforced at home instead of like, hey,

835
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 4: take your breath, you know, the stuff that you would

836
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 4: hope for.

837
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, And I think that that's definitely like what

838
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: we're seeing here right. Yeah, it's a she describes like

839
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: her weird time fixation is self discipline, right, and I

840
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: think it's her grasping for control, Like she can't make

841
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: her control the fact that her mom wants her to

842
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: do this, but she can have that kind of control

843
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: and like.

844
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's like unfortunately, I yeah, it's like

845
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,760
Speaker 4: I I don't know wh I was in like fourth

846
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 4: and fifth grade. I wouldn't leave a room until I

847
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 4: had written down what everyone was wearing and what was

848
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 4: hanging on the walls, and that was the way to

849
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 4: maintain like order. And then if there's no one around

850
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 4: you to like, you know, sort of pull you out

851
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 4: of that, and if there's people around you encouraging it,

852
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 4: it's just like a recipe for disaster.

853
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's it is one of

854
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: those things where like this isn't doctor Laura being coming.

855
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 1: Doctor Laura isn't the only way being this kid goes.

856
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: It's not the usual this It only really.

857
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 4: Happened, right, I hope not. Yeah, I know a.

858
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: Lot of people who had very very I mean, I'm

859
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: sure a lot of people listening are like, well, I

860
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 1: had kind of a similar experience, right, totally, But it

861
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: does it's also like she is one of those people where, oh,

862
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: all of this makes sense. I totally understand how someone

863
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: with this background wound up as doctor Laura.

864
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 6: Right.

865
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 4: Absolutely, yeah, it's like not yeah, not everybody, but it's not,

866
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 4: you know, inconceivable that this would happen.

867
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: This is a crisis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Her classmates in

868
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: grade school in high school all remember her as pretty

869
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: quiet and extremely serious. Like as a as a kid

870
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: in grade school, she was really weirdly serious and like

871
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: one thing, you get a lot. Some of this might

872
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: just be Vicky really pushing for salacious stuff. But they

873
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: all talk about that she was hot, but they talk

874
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 1: about it in such a way as like it's weird.

875
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: She was hot, but she didn't have any friends and

876
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: wasn't very popular because she didn't seem to want to

877
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:27,760
Speaker 1: know people.

878
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 4: Right, that's uh so, I mean obviously we can't truly

879
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 4: fully trust Vicky. Of course not No, I like it

880
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 4: sounds like she fucking sucks.

881
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: To be fair, Vicky could be doing this. You can't

882
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: trust a bunch of people forty years later talking about

883
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: how someone was in eighth grade.

884
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 4: Right when was Vicky's book published?

885
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: It was like in the nineties, but still a long time,

886
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 1: not forty years, but a while later.

887
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

888
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, So like the word beautiful is still I mean

889
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 4: it's still is now, but like especially then, like indiscriminately

890
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 4: thrown around just to like validate the you are reading

891
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 4: about an a person of worth. But I don't know.

892
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 4: Every time it's like a young girl is described as like,

893
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 4: you know, like didn't want to know other people, it's

894
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 4: I immediately go to, like, she's probably shy.

895
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: Maybe here's where we get weird here, because Okay, one

896
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 1: of the best pieces of evidence suggesting that Vicky's portrayal

897
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: of things may be accurate is that Laura says the

898
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: same thing in different language. Here's what she told an

899
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: interviewer in nineteen seventy nine. I had a distinct feeling

900
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: of being out of sync with the rest of the world,

901
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: just as if I had landed from another planet. While

902
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: my peers were outside skipping rope and playing games, I

903
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: stayed in the home, where, like a hilariously precocious child,

904
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: I wore an ill fitting lab coat and crooked glasses. So, huh,

905
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: that seems to kind of back up with Vicky saying

906
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: I also think it might be a lie because this

907
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: is doctor Laura nineteen seventy nine at the start of

908
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: her career. And that doesn't sound like an honest recollection

909
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: of events. Just nobody would described themselves as like a

910
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: hilariously precocious child unless they were doing myth making right,

911
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 1: That's what I'm.

912
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's like we can't trust Vicky or Laura

913
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 4: count of Laura's life.

914
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely not a single reliable source on this woman's

915
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: early life. Laura wants you Doctor Laura as an adult,

916
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 1: wants you to believe that as a kid, she was isolated,

917
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: she didn't fit in, she felt like, you know, she

918
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: was an adult in a world of children, and she

919
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: was a mad scientist. It is very important to doctor

920
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 1: Laura that you see her as a mad scientist as

921
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: an adolescent girl, which is.

922
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 4: Which interesting, which is so wild, because it's like, could

923
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 4: there be anything more different than it sounds like what

924
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 4: she is. I mean, I don't know enough, but like

925
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 4: it sounds like she is not encouraging people to be

926
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 4: like this. But it's also important to her that she

927
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 4: is perceived like this.

928
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 1: Yes, she's an iconoclast and also was a serious child scientist. Yeah,

929
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: maybe she was some of that anyway, well, we'll keep

930
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: talking about this, but it is. It is very peculiar,

931
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: and that makes me think about something that's not peculiar. Really,

932
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 1: the only normal thing that exists.

933
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 4: Okay, you're selling you goods and services.

934
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: That's it, you know, Jamie, I don't know if you

935
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: know this, but ten thousand years ago in ancient Babylon,

936
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: you know what people were doing. What goods and services?

937
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 1: You know, my god, ten thousand years from now, when

938
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,919
Speaker 1: mankind has spread to the stars, goods and services. There's

939
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: no other reason to go to the stars but goods

940
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: and services. That's the message of Star Trek.

941
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 4: There's more goods. I agree, I agree. I think that

942
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 4: that is where things are headed. You know, we don't

943
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 4: know the endgame of it, but yeah, we went to

944
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 4: the stars to find more goods and more services.

945
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: Right right, the ultimate finally, to find the goods and

946
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: services that can make us happy. Right, and you'll find

947
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: that justice, no, no fuck justice, yeah, all products, baby,

948
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: That's the of this show. And we're back and we're

949
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 1: thinking about doctor Laura as a child mad scientist. So

950
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: when doctor Laura is ten or eleven years old, her

951
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: parents have another daughter, and Laura has a bad relationship

952
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: with her sister. She never forgives her for taking the

953
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: attention that ought to have been hers.

954
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, never forgives someone for being born. Mistake number one.

955
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: I call my little brother every day and I just say,

956
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 1: fuck you. You know, he's never been anything but good to me,

957
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: sweet guy.

958
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 4: But just suffered for his crimes.

959
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, even though his crimes in

960
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: this case were taking enough of my parents' attention away

961
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 1: that I was able to watch The Simpsons, which really

962
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: worked out great for me.

963
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 4: Incredible. My brothers, my little brother's major my brother brother's

964
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 4: most notorious crime is that he he caught me making

965
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 4: out with someone downstairs. Well, we were allegedly watching Family Guy,

966
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 4: and was so disturbed that he threw up and woke

967
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 4: up my parents and I got in trouble.

968
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 1: See, my brother never narked on me. He's only ever

969
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: been a good person. But when I was a kid,

970
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: and like I was like fourteen or fifteen, and my

971
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: parents were out for the night or something. I don't

972
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: know why, they might have been doing a date night

973
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: or some shit, but I was watching him and I

974
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: tried to put on stuff that he wasn't normally out

975
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 1: to watch, which like I would have loved when I

976
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 1: had been his age, and he got scared and ran

977
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: into his room behind like he was never a He

978
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: was never a like I will knark on you. He

979
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: just like was legitimately wanted to follow the rules punished

980
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: for being a sweetie. Yeah, you know, he's a happier

981
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: and healthier person than I will ever be. So who's

982
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: to say?

983
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 4: It does seem traumatizing to see an older sibling do

984
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 4: something that is like coded as bad. But you know,

985
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 4: what can you do there? You know, we celebrate our brothers,

986
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 4: but they've got to go.

987
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: They've got to go. They've got to go, Jamie. When

988
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,760
Speaker 1: the revolution comes, it'll be the little brothers first.

989
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 4: Up against the wall to go.

990
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think we can really make political hay off

991
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 1: of this. Oh yeah, so she has a little sister

992
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 1: never forgives her horrible relationship forever. She claims this is

993
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,720
Speaker 1: when doctor Laura claims, this is when she started dreaming

994
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: of a career in psychology. I also think this is bullshit.

995
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 1: She did not actually focus on psychology as a discipline

996
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,919
Speaker 1: until she is a mature adult, and this is how

997
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: she I want you to hear how she framed this decision,

998
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: this her childhood interest in psychology that there is no

999
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: evidence of. In an interview later, once she was famous

1000
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: with psychology. Today all the kids talked about getting a

1001
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: boyfriend or a car, and I kept struggling with why

1002
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: I was alive, what life means? I don't I just

1003
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: don't believe you, doctor Laura. I just don't believe you.

1004
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 4: It's so weird for someone who is like famously encouraging

1005
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 4: women to return to the home, describing herself like fucking

1006
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 4: Alan Ginsburg, Like what are you saying?

1007
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 1: Shit, It's not just doctor. Lots of people do this.

1008
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,760
Speaker 1: You get this online a lot with people being like wow,

1009
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of my peers are, you know,

1010
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: selfishly interested in just partying and drugs, and like, I'm

1011
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: thinking about like stuff that matters, you know, whether that's

1012
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: politics or psychology or whatever. Like, no, everybody thinks about

1013
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: what things mean and who they are and what life

1014
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 1: is about. And everybody also wants to get laid.

1015
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 4: You're not special, chill out right, like like any intellectual

1016
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:46,439
Speaker 4: curiosity excludes you from being a person with like human desire.

1017
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: To separate yourself from the rest of the human population

1018
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: because you want to feel like you're better than them.

1019
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 4: Hector, Laura, you were slamming Mike's cards with the rest

1020
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 4: of us.

1021
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly like we all had. We all like got

1022
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: fucked up as kids and partied, and we also all

1023
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: looked up at the stars with wonder in our hearts,

1024
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: like you're not more of a person than anyone else.

1025
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: Speak Calm down, Calm down, doctor Laura, and calm down,

1026
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: you the listener. We all need that reminder sometimes.

1027
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, take your breath, Take your breath. It's just a

1028
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 4: podcast for now.

1029
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 1: For now, until until the next Supreme Court ruling. God

1030
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 1: will it.

1031
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 4: That weaponizes podcasts?

1032
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:32,439
Speaker 1: Yes, podcasters can now order airstrikes. Will Wheaton's finally gonna

1033
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: get his uh wow. Part of why I think that's right, Jamie.

1034
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: Part of why I think that doctor Laura is self

1035
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,720
Speaker 1: mythologizing with a lot of this child man scientist stuff

1036
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: is that some of the quotes Vicky provides from her

1037
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,240
Speaker 1: former classmates just describe her as a very normal girl.

1038
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: Here's here's a quote from the book talking about an

1039
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 1: interview with a friend of hers with the last name Eagle.

1040
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: Eagle even remembered Laura handing out advice and more. I

1041
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 1: had a shin of guy, explained Eagle, and I think

1042
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 1: we stalked him that year they were juniors, with her

1043
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 1: helping me. According to Eagle, Laura had several parties at

1044
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: her house as well, the kind where you turn off

1045
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: all the lights and play Johnny Mathis, said Eagle. She

1046
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 1: was fun. She could twist your arm into doing things

1047
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: you didn't want to do, but certainly nothing bad. Back then,

1048
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 1: we hadn't even heard of all the naughty things you

1049
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: could do. And that makes her sound like a perfectly

1050
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: normal teenage girl.

1051
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 4: It's so wild. How much more like infinitely accessible that

1052
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:27,720
Speaker 4: makes her?

1053
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, like there's the was she like the secret

1054
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: the only one really thinking about serious issues. I had

1055
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: to know the mysteries of the human mind. I wish

1056
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: she was at.

1057
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 4: Your way to characterize yourself.

1058
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, helping her friends stalk a boy that they had

1059
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: a crush on and listening to fucking rock music or whatever,

1060
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: Johnny Mathis is. I'm not old enough to know. Don't

1061
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 1: come after me.

1062
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 4: Really, No, I think you might be soft rock, asked

1063
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 4: the Delilah audience.

1064
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they'll they'll figure it out. So one thing

1065
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: we do see early evidence on is that people really

1066
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: did not like working with doctor Laura. She wrote for

1067
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: the school paper, and at one point they had a

1068
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: vote for who should be editor in the next year,

1069
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 1: and there was a classmate who was out sick and

1070
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:11,840
Speaker 1: who had already said I don't want to be the

1071
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: editor when this vote comes up, and they all vote

1072
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: for him, even though Laura is campaigning for the job,

1073
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: because everyone seems to have agreed she should not have power,

1074
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 1: which I do find funny.

1075
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 4: Whoa bomber? That does feel like, I mean, like losing

1076
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 4: a little things. You're like, at what point does the

1077
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 4: true supervillain origin story take hold? Sometimes I do feel like,

1078
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 4: I mean, can you think of another example where the

1079
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 4: loss of a student election.

1080
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: Leads to it?

1081
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 4: It feels like a classic like supervillain origin story of

1082
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 4: like oh my peers hate me.

1083
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: I mean, all of Hitler's madness started when he didn't

1084
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,280
Speaker 1: get picked to be the editor for his high school yearbook.

1085
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: You know, that's widely agreed on by Hitler's That was

1086
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 1: a lie people, I know people can't tell what Eliah

1087
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: is on the show, say that was a lie.

1088
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 4: It's fun look and and something something I'm a murderer

1089
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 4: and something something daddy, Okay. I do feel like, yeah,

1090
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 4: if you were a if you're a high schooler, just

1091
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 4: like vote the most evil person who is running into

1092
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 4: student government and then they'll just taper off.

1093
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1094
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: I think we should have like a like you know how,

1095
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: you know how there's that Uh. I'm trying to think

1096
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: of the like a Hunger Games situation. We should have that,

1097
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: but only for the kids who self select to be

1098
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: in student government. They're not going anywhere good, you know.

1099
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 4: Wow. I will not publicly agree to that, but.

1100
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 1: I think it is. But Jamie franchise, So you're arguing

1101
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 1: against the people here. I'm just I'm just a man

1102
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: of the people.

1103
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 4: My man, you're pro Susanne Collins and that. Yeah.

1104
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that guy who died that everybody liked he

1105
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: was in those movies anyway. That Yeah?

1106
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 4: Oh were you yes?

1107
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes.

1108
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 6: So.

1109
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: Doctor Laura said this to the Los Angeles Times home

1110
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: magazine in nineteen seventy nine about this period in her life.

1111
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: Looking back, it seems to me I was struggling for

1112
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: some kind of acknowledgment or approval. I didn't feel happy,

1113
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: just driven towards science, and she said she reacted by

1114
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: retreating into the seemingly rational world of science. The childhood

1115
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 1: experiments with milk bottles and fruitflies turned into experiments in

1116
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: genetics and biochemistry. When she was in her teens. She

1117
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: even built her own lab equipment in the basement.

1118
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 4: Isn't it funny that, like that's a whether we like

1119
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 4: her or not, that's a woman talking about science, but

1120
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 4: it inevitably ended up in La Times Home. Yeah, yeah,

1121
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 4: doctor Laura Codd.

1122
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so. Yeah, now there is some evidence

1123
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: she certainly seems to have been a good at science

1124
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 1: and very interested in it as a young girl. There's

1125
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: her quote from her Jericho High School yearbook on the

1126
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: U or she graduated, says quote because because it's so

1127
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 1: basically in this yearbook, it wasn't a huge school. So

1128
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: each each kid or each page would have two kids

1129
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: and you'd get a photo of them and then like

1130
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: that description of them at a quote. Right, And the

1131
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 1: quote that someone wrote for doctor Laura was Heredity determines

1132
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: the color of her eyes, but science lights them up.

1133
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: Her assistance is invaluable in any research lab. That's kind

1134
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: of weird. I don't know who that, but I find

1135
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: it off putting. Don't talk about what are we doing?

1136
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: Why are we.

1137
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 4: Talking about this in school? Weirdly, like a skull A skull.

1138
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: Measure kind of feels like you're going to lead to

1139
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: race mixing at some point.

1140
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 4: I don't like leading with heredity. Is is gross? Yeah,

1141
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 4: it makes me want to look up for Hopper. Durt's

1142
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 4: your book quote because I forget what it was, but

1143
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 4: I know it always made me laugh.

1144
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean the murderer Sorr. I was thinking of

1145
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: Fred Durst.

1146
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 4: No, well, common misconception was.

1147
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: Recently in the great movie I saw the TV Glow,

1148
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: which was very good, he was.

1149
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 4: Yes, I loved that movie and I loved his appearance

1150
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 4: Robert Durst. No, he's a dead murderer. But Robert Durst.

1151
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 4: We Durst not criticize this bob whose activities make him

1152
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 4: stand out from the mob, which is an incredible yearbook

1153
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 4: quote for an eventual murderer.

1154
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's an iconoclast.

1155
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 4: You know, I look I for years, I was like,

1156
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 4: he's innocent, and then that joke stopped being funny and

1157
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 4: then I stopped saying it. But he did, you know,

1158
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 4: get away with I think it was like in Texas

1159
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 4: in Galveston. He got away with dismembering someone in self

1160
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 4: defense was his most notorious crime.

1161
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I don't know if it's his most notorious crime.

1162
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 1: I think that hair that hair style was a worse crime.

1163
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 4: Wow, get his act.

1164
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: Also, I'm also pro murder. You know this about me?

1165
01:00:58,120 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 4: I know pro murder.

1166
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, yeah, I'm not. I'm I feel like

1167
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 1: the way a lot of voters, like those swing voters

1168
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: who keep going back between Trump and Biden. That's how

1169
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:11,439
Speaker 1: I feel about murder. You know, I'm a swing voter

1170
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 1: for murder. You know some murders, I like some murders.

1171
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: I don't.

1172
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 4: I take it. I refuse to continue.

1173
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: Okay, that's probably a good idea. Once she graduates high school,

1174
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: her ambition is to become a great research scientist, and

1175
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: she would talk constantly to friends and the adults in

1176
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: her life that she wanted to find about wanting to

1177
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 1: find the cure for cancer. And you know, that's how

1178
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: kids talk about that. That's not really how cancer works,

1179
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: but that's how kids who are ambitious might talk about cancer.

1180
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: So I believe that, right. Laurie is always conservative as

1181
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: a kid. Some of her her friends recall her arguing

1182
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 1: about politics with them, but also like not weird, not weirdly,

1183
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: so just like you know, some kids, kids usually express

1184
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 1: some form of political opinion, and nobody really hers was

1185
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: not particular noteworthy kind of The most devastating detail of

1186
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: her adolescence comes right after she graduated high school and

1187
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: before she left for college. She worked up the courage

1188
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 1: to ask her dad, who was the only one of

1189
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: her parents that she seems to have actually loved, Am

1190
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: I pretty? And he said, no, you know, you don't

1191
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 1: have the looks that'll make a guy turn his head. Oh,

1192
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,200
Speaker 1: is my god horrible. That's just devastating.

1193
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 4: It's your villain origin story. No, I forget what I

1194
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 4: said about that's oh my god.

1195
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 1: And we don't get much. She hates her mom. I

1196
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 1: just don't know that. We don't really get much in

1197
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 1: the way of detail as to why. So either what

1198
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 1: her mom was saying was way worse than this, or

1199
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 1: it's something a lot messier, like her mom was not

1200
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 1: nearly as shitty as her dad, but for whatever reason,

1201
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: she idolized her dad. You know, whatever is going on,

1202
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 1: there's any.

1203
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 4: Sort of human psychology that doctor Laura would refuse to

1204
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 4: understand oh.

1205
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, she does not seem to have analyzed this, but yeah.

1206
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 4: That is like, that is devastating.

1207
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 1: We do get some hints of what the worst shit

1208
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 1: from her mom might have been, if that is indeed

1209
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 1: what was going on here, which is that her college

1210
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: roommates recalled that she was afraid of her mom would

1211
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: steal any boyfriend she happened to get, which is like

1212
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: a weirdly specific and also weird thing for a teenage

1213
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: girl to worry about. And if that was really a

1214
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 1: thing that happened to her boy Laura, I am sorry.

1215
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 1: That is a rough draw of the mom cart that's extreme.

1216
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 4: That also happened to the creator of Beanie Babies with

1217
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 4: his dad.

1218
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: Well, in that case, I think his dad did the

1219
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 1: right thing. So, and I don't.

1220
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 4: Totally disagree with you as the unfortunate thing.

1221
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 1: All I know is what I learned in that movie

1222
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 1: that I assume is Cannon.

1223
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:45,919
Speaker 4: Oh that movie's dog shit.

1224
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, That's why I said. So. Laura goes

1225
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: to Stonybrook University, where studies physiology. Laura is noted by

1226
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 1: her few friends as never leaving campus. She does not

1227
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: go home for the holiday or anything, and she is

1228
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: also not an easy person to live with. One classmate

1229
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: recalls she always had an opinion of things and what

1230
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: people should be doing. Laura was particularly incensed whenever her

1231
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: roommates would have boys over. It didn't matter that everyone's

1232
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 1: doors were open and that no one was fucking, she

1233
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: would yell at them because she was sure they were

1234
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: screwing around and having premarital sex. So this is where

1235
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:25,439
Speaker 1: we get some outside info that like, okay, so maybe

1236
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: she's just always sucked ass?

1237
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 4: Right?

1238
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 1: Where does it.

1239
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 4: Sounds like whatever insecurity is or like she is internalized

1240
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 4: growing up has now turned into weapons forever?

1241
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: So this was a you know, she was off putting.

1242
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 1: No one ever was able to live with her for

1243
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 1: more than like a semester at a time. Right, She's

1244
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: that kind of person. After graduating, she went to Columbia

1245
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,439
Speaker 1: University to get her masters and studied under an MD

1246
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 1: who was researching the glucose transport mechanism. Laura was at

1247
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: this point scientifically interested in finding more efficient methods of

1248
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: measuring glucose levels and response to insulin, which would have

1249
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 1: been great. If she'd stuck with that, that we would

1250
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:07,479
Speaker 1: have been great.

1251
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 4: She doesn't.

1252
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: What she does do is meet a guy named Rudolph.

1253
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: She meets him because so she's a walker. She's one

1254
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 1: of these people who takes regular long walks, and it

1255
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 1: says something deeply unhinged about her that she took these

1256
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 1: long walks and high heels. And one day she catches

1257
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: her heel on a bridge, which makes her fall and

1258
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 1: seriously injure her kneecap, and Rudolph is onseen and gallantly

1259
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 1: rescues her. So the two start their relationship while Laura

1260
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 1: is in a wheelchair and dependent on him. They get married,

1261
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 1: but as she heals, she becomes aware of the horrifying

1262
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 1: reality that like Rudolph fell in love with the version

1263
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 1: of her that was dependent on him, and Laura is

1264
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: an extremely independent person, right, so the marriage starts to

1265
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 1: break apart. You know, it's just kind of a doomed situation,

1266
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 1: and the sort of thing that very young people do, know,

1267
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 1: get married too early based on something that is more

1268
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 1: of like a momentary thing that rather than evidence of

1269
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: like long term compatibility.

1270
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 5: You know.

1271
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: Not a weird story and not one that most people

1272
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: would judge someone over, although doctor Laura is going to

1273
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: build a career judging people.

1274
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 4: I mean, it's like but if anyone is qualified. Yeah,

1275
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 4: I'm brave of both of you.

1276
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:23,439
Speaker 2: Did not make a Rudolph the Red Nose reindeer joke.

1277
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 3: Just wanted to point that out.

1278
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what does nose look like. So Laura

1279
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 1: graduated and broke up with her husband right around the

1280
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: same time she gets her master's degree. The actual divorce

1281
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 1: process is going to take some time, but before it's done,

1282
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 1: Laura travels to Los Angeles to teach physiology and human

1283
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: sexuality at the University of Southern California IA. The divorce, Yeah, yeah,

1284
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 1: it's great stuff. It's great stuff. The divorce gets finalized

1285
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy seven, and Laura is going to spend

1286
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: the rest of her life delighting in telling interviewers that

1287
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,919
Speaker 1: her ex husband brings his parents to court. I don't

1288
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: know enough to say which of them was the bad guy,

1289
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 1: but she does kind of sound like a dick when

1290
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: she talks about it. But hey, no fault divorce, which

1291
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 1: she's going to hate in the future.

1292
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:07,919
Speaker 4: Oh great.

1293
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's while teaching at USC that, not quite

1294
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 1: yet a doctor, Laura Slashinger would meet a man who

1295
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 1: is going to set her on the road to becoming

1296
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 1: an icon. And that man's name is Bill Balance with

1297
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 1: two l's. Have you ever heard of Bill?

1298
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 5: No?

1299
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 4: I don't think so.

1300
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 1: Oh, Jamie, You're gonna love learning about this piece of shit.

1301
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 1: This is a real influential piece of shit.

1302
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 4: Okay.

1303
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: Born in Peoria, Illinois, Balance got his degree in journalism

1304
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: and served in the Marines before starting a varied career

1305
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 1: as a broadcaster during the Golden Age of radio from

1306
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties to the nineteen seventies. He worked everywhere

1307
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 1: from Denver in Honolulu to San Diego, San Francisco, and

1308
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, which is where he was when Laura met him.

1309
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy one. He had launched a new hit

1310
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 1: series widely considered to be the first shock jock show.

1311
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 1: He's not quite a shock jock, but he is the

1312
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 1: he is the primordial ooze from which the shock jocks emerge.

1313
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 4: Right, Okay, it's all coming to yes there, Okay.

1314
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 1: And he is. He's hugely influential. He is pre Rush Limbaugh,

1315
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 1: he is pre Howard Stern, but he is all of

1316
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 1: them descended. You and I unfortunately have this guy's DNA and.

1317
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:24,799
Speaker 4: Us I'm sure we do. And that what a bummer. Okay,

1318
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 4: all right, he is our he is daddy.

1319
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 1: He's great granddaddy at least.

1320
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:30,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1321
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: Okay, so the series that takes makes Bill take off.

1322
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,599
Speaker 1: He's reasonably successful. But he has his huge hit series

1323
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one, and that series is Feminine Forum

1324
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: on KGBS AM in Los Angeles. I know you're you're

1325
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 1: just psyched to hear what Feminine Forum was?

1326
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 4: J I really hope is he the host?

1327
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 1: He suare? Is he share is good?

1328
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 4: I was hoping he would be the host?

1329
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1330
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely, Here's la.

1331
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:03,960
Speaker 1: Times describes the show design for a young female audience.

1332
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:07,000
Speaker 1: The daily five hour show featured topics such as where

1333
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 1: did his love go? And how did you know it

1334
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 1: was gone? And have you ever thrown yourself at a

1335
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:14,839
Speaker 1: hunk who wasn't catching? And are you a red hot mama?

1336
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: Balance played the role of what former Times radio columnist

1337
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 1: James Brown called the lascivious uncle, chiding his doll babies

1338
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:25,720
Speaker 1: to rid themselves of their grunt headed pressers. Within a year,

1339
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 1: Balance's Feminine Forum was one of the most popular radio

1340
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 1: shows in Los Angeles, with as many men turning in

1341
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: as women. By turns witty racy and confessional. The Daring

1342
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 1: program was soon syndicated across the country and spawned imitators

1343
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 1: in dozens of cities. Oh so, how are you feeling

1344
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 1: about that, Jamie.

1345
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 4: I'm just kind of taking it all in.

1346
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 1: It's a lot, there's a lot there.

1347
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 4: I feel like I my brain kind of like I

1348
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 4: started to get brain freeze at lascivious uncle.

1349
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't have this guy anymore. You don't need

1350
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 1: to think of who because women get to my show

1351
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 1: is now, right, And.

1352
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 4: I guess that he maybe he was the final the

1353
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 4: final boss of Lasivia's uncles, because I can think of

1354
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 4: Lasivia's aunties or not even Lasivia's aunties, I can think

1355
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 4: of like shame shameful aunties.

1356
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 1: Bill is uncle.

1357
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 4: Was he popular? Was he genuinely popular among as far

1358
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:22,639
Speaker 4: as I can tell?

1359
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 1: Very popular with young women? Because again fascinating, there's not

1360
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 1: a lot for them. There's not a lot of radio

1361
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 1: that's just young women talking about their relationship problems, their

1362
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 1: difficulties dating, and like Bill is there and the show

1363
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 1: exists because there's a man to kind of uh uh,

1364
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, midwife, if you'll forgive the phrasing, right,

1365
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 1: he's got to be there, and he's got to be

1366
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 1: like he's got to be kind of holding it up

1367
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 1: so that the network, you know, will approve it in

1368
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 1: the first place. But a huge part of the show,

1369
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:56,559
Speaker 1: it's never just Bill as the host either. He brings

1370
01:10:56,560 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: in a lot of women, including eventually female like therapists

1371
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:04,479
Speaker 1: and doctors and stuff as guest experts to help talk

1372
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:07,719
Speaker 1: with these women callers about their like relationship issues and stuff.

1373
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,680
Speaker 4: So is the tone of this show, like, as far

1374
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 4: as we know, is it doctor Laura coded? Is it

1375
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 4: kind of rooted in shamee?

1376
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 3: Like?

1377
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 4: What is the vibe of it?

1378
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 1: He nearly always sides with the women calling a big

1379
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 1: part of he does it in a way that you

1380
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 1: and I would say is deeply sexist and gross. But

1381
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,719
Speaker 1: he always he tells them like that their feelings are valid.

1382
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 1: A huge A lot of the times his advice is

1383
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 1: you need to dump that man. You're better than him, right, God,

1384
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 1: It's really it's complicated. Bill's legacy in this part is

1385
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 1: like very much it's not just bad or just good, right.

1386
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 4: I feel like, if anything, I don't know, I don't

1387
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:46,639
Speaker 4: want to hand it to this guy in any way,

1388
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:49,240
Speaker 4: shape or for him. But if his work demonstrated that

1389
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 4: there is a clear and present need for like young

1390
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 4: women to have their feelings validated by literally fucking anyone

1391
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 4: in a public forum, like that is such a bummer

1392
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 4: that it like it took someone that far afield from

1393
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 4: who they were being, like, no, you're it's okay.

1394
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,799
Speaker 1: I would have to say. You can draw two lines

1395
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:16,680
Speaker 1: from Bill. One line is shows like the Bechdel Cast right,

1396
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 1: where you've got women like talking without any kind of

1397
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 1: male intermediary, and like, that is a major thing in

1398
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:29,640
Speaker 1: entertainment and it has been for quite some time. And

1399
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 1: Bill helped show that there was a thirst for that, right, and.

1400
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 4: The other thing the audience existed.

1401
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 1: Yes, the other thing Bill helped show is that a

1402
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:39,680
Speaker 1: lot of people would listen to an old guy be

1403
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 1: gross to women, be gross about women. And so you

1404
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 1: get a lot of like the shock jockshit that's gonna

1405
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 1: come later comes out like a lot of people a

1406
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 1: lot of what what what networks get from this is

1407
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:54,920
Speaker 1: that like, oh, there's a lot of interest in men

1408
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: talking to women about sex, right.

1409
01:12:57,680 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 4: Okay, So it's like you could you could pull how

1410
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 4: the Bexel cast.

1411
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 1: Right, that's kind of what's interesting about Bill. He's early

1412
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: enough fact that you can pull both from it, right,

1413
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 1: And I should give you at this point an example

1414
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 1: of the kind of incisive commentary that Bill provided. Oh boy, Sophie,

1415
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:15,439
Speaker 1: this is.

1416
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, my gosh, my chest just tightened.

1417
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:19,759
Speaker 3: Your husband he was not the father of this baby.

1418
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 1: Well, actually it's rather complicated.

1419
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 3: But we're going to explain it to Bill. My child

1420
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 3: is forty two. Child's father is my husband father. The

1421
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 3: child's father is your husband's father.

1422
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1423
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:38,679
Speaker 3: In other words, you were making it with your father

1424
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 3: in law to be right before the ceremony.

1425
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 4: Right, That's why I changed my mind, because.

1426
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 3: You figured that his that your father in law to be,

1427
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 3: was a better man than his own son. Right, So

1428
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 3: why didn't you marry the father in law? Was he

1429
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 3: still married to your ex, to your soon to be

1430
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 3: mother in law. Yeah, Oh, that's a kind of a

1431
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 3: dull thing for him to have done.

1432
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:00,879
Speaker 4: Much longer.

1433
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 3: In other words, if you marry the projected or proposed husband,

1434
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,760
Speaker 3: he would be the he would be the brother of

1435
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 3: his own child. Yeah, all right, But do you mention

1436
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 3: just in passing him was kind of a throwaway line,

1437
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 3: Giannina Mia, you mentioned that maybe it won't be for long.

1438
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 3: You mean he's going to get rid of his old

1439
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 3: fat wife and marry you, well, not marry me.

1440
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 5: I don't want to get married.

1441
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 4: So you see, Now, why is he hitting every consonant

1442
01:14:37,439 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 4: like that?

1443
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 1: That's that's how you delivered shit on the radio.

1444
01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 4: Back then, what for back in the day.

1445
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 1: He's not really he's not being judgmental or mean there

1446
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 1: he's being silly. He's kind of making fun of it

1447
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 1: a little bit, but he's not. He's mostly just like

1448
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 1: asking her for details because it's like an interesting saucy story.

1449
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 4: Right. Well, yeah, that's the thing. I was like, I

1450
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:04,639
Speaker 4: don't think he's doing nothing there. I think he's asked

1451
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,960
Speaker 4: leading questions that he knows the answer to. That makes

1452
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 4: the behavior sound like more like not even that it's

1453
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:18,240
Speaker 4: not salacious, but you know, like giving whatever, telling the

1454
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:21,760
Speaker 4: listeners like, oh, that thing that you're wondering is like,

1455
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 4: is this person doing something kind of fucked up?

1456
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1457
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 4: And I and here is my fysaurus to prove it.

1458
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 4: Like he's doing a lot.

1459
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:32,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's doing a lot, but he's also doing you see.

1460
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: You can also see him in the line to uh,

1461
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 1: doctor Laura, right where they they're doing a similar thing.

1462
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 1: Like Bill, as soon as he hears the basis of this,

1463
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 1: he's like, I need to steer this to talking about

1464
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 1: how this guy she's marrying is going to be the

1465
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 1: brother to her son. Right, that's the line that needs

1466
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 1: to get out. It's like the old you know, there's

1467
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 1: a popular song around the time, I'm my own grandpa, right,

1468
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 1: Like I need to get that, I need to be yeah, yeah, yeah,

1469
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,759
Speaker 1: Oh my god. It's a great song here, doctor Demento.

1470
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:05,920
Speaker 1: Very funny song. But he's really got a hit on that, right,

1471
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:08,639
Speaker 1: because he knows that that's like the craziest, funniest detail.

1472
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 1: But the way he kind of pulls it out, he's

1473
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: got a much more slower style, like he's he's not

1474
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 1: doctor Laura, gives stuff less time to breathe, which is

1475
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:21,639
Speaker 1: interesting to me, Like one of them isn't necessarily more

1476
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 1: honest than the other, but it is interesting, Like the different.

1477
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:26,839
Speaker 4: To Bill's five.

1478
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:34,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bill gets five definitely here, right, No, I mean

1479
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 1: you heard the slide whistle in there, he le, this is,

1480
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 1: of course the slide whistle show. So Bill is popular

1481
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 1: and I should you know, I said earlier it was

1482
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 1: extremely popular among women there's also a lot of rage

1483
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 1: inspired by this show, right, and he gets attacked a

1484
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 1: lot by feminist organizations obviously, and I'm going to continue

1485
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 1: that quote from the LA Weekly. Feminist groups accused the

1486
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 1: program of exploitation and insulting the intelligence of his collars.

1487
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:02,600
Speaker 1: For his part, Balance called women's rights activists professional blind dates.

1488
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 1: So he's that kind of piece of shit, right, He's

1489
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 1: Howard Stern too, you know, although Howard Stern is much

1490
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:08,719
Speaker 1: better personally.

1491
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 4: What this has to do with the Bechtel cast Robert

1492
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 4: I swear to.

1493
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 1: God, I don't know, Jamie. Like, it's a different era

1494
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 1: before Bill Balance. After Bill, you get Doctor Laura. After Bill,

1495
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:24,040
Speaker 1: you get a lot of shows that are like women

1496
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:28,400
Speaker 1: talking to and about women. Sure, he's not the only

1497
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 1: thing in there, but he's he's a he breaks a

1498
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 1: seal on what talk radio can be. And it's also

1499
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:37,520
Speaker 1: worth noting that like after Bill, you get Rush Limbaugh

1500
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 1: and you get fucking like all of the shock jocks

1501
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 1: that we get Michael Medved, all of these horrible things.

1502
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 1: He's the first fish that walked on land, right, rather

1503
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 1: than the immediate Simian precursor, right, Like, he just sort

1504
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,920
Speaker 1: of shows that radio can be a different thing than

1505
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 1: it had been before.

1506
01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:00,200
Speaker 4: I do think like across mediums, it is unfortunate and

1507
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 4: vile that there's like it's often just like a lucivious

1508
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 4: uncle who ends up, you know, proving that they're proving

1509
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:11,639
Speaker 4: again because it's been proven over and over and over

1510
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:15,639
Speaker 4: that there is an audience that is not just like men,

1511
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:18,160
Speaker 4: and yeah, yeah.

1512
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:20,000
Speaker 1: There's and he does it by being like, there's an

1513
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 1: audience that's just not men for this kind of smut right,

1514
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 1: for smut talk, you know, but that does eventually lead

1515
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 1: to shows that are not smutty, right, Like, there's a

1516
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:32,720
Speaker 1: there is a line you can draw there. And when

1517
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:34,559
Speaker 1: I talk about the success of this show by night,

1518
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,360
Speaker 1: he starts this in nineteen seventy one. By nineteen seventy five,

1519
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:41,440
Speaker 1: there are five hundred shows and more that are ripoffs

1520
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:44,519
Speaker 1: of the Bill Balance Show in different stations around the country,

1521
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 1: and Bill's show is more popular than ever. One of

1522
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 1: his most popular segments is a recurring bit with doctor

1523
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 1: Norton Christi, a clinical psychologist who had worked for the

1524
01:18:54,320 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 1: Rand Corporation. Oh yeah, doctor Christy's a fascinating pace as shit.

1525
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 1: Christie's job was to provide pseudo credible scientific analyzes of

1526
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:08,200
Speaker 1: the fears and complaints made by ballast as callers. Right,

1527
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:11,439
Speaker 1: so they quickly and again this is part of like

1528
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 1: the actual talent here is recognizing people don't just want

1529
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 1: to hear Bill be gross on the air and make jokes.

1530
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:21,519
Speaker 1: They want to hear someone who you can claim as

1531
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:25,760
Speaker 1: a scientist explain what the psychological oh.

1532
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:28,000
Speaker 4: Right, certainly wouldn't continue on.

1533
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:30,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, he's again you can draw direct

1534
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 1: line from Bill to to Jordan Peterson, right, sure, sure, or.

1535
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:38,360
Speaker 4: I mean doctor Phil like doctor.

1536
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:41,439
Speaker 1: Phil right, Yes, yes, absolutely, this is Bill is a

1537
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 1: really influend. He's not the only person who helps make

1538
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 1: this clear to the people making radio shows and eventually

1539
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 1: TV shows, but he's a major figure in that movement,

1540
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 1: and his station managers saw this as an correctly, as

1541
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 1: an endlessly reproducible format. You get a guy who's kind

1542
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,120
Speaker 1: of funny, you get a medical prof someone you can

1543
01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:03,800
Speaker 1: claim as a medical professional, and you have callers talk

1544
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 1: about their fucked up lives. Billions of dollars, right, infinite

1545
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:11,559
Speaker 1: money from doing this shit up to this day. Right, yeah, Now,

1546
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 1: one thing they do recognize is that you need a

1547
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 1: stable of experts because we're on the air a lot,

1548
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:21,680
Speaker 1: and actual credible clinical psychologists tend to be busy. Right,

1549
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:23,800
Speaker 1: if you're a good clinical psychologist, you probably don't have

1550
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:25,759
Speaker 1: five hours a day to talk to you about who's

1551
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 1: on the radio, right.

1552
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 4: Well, you know, well, let's not know, no shade, but

1553
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:36,559
Speaker 4: Fraser certainly found the time, and that was part of

1554
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 4: the reason that Niles and him had such problems. Niles

1555
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:42,200
Speaker 4: didn't have five hours of radio a day because he

1556
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 4: was a real doctor.

1557
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 1: That is the point of the Fraser Show, is that

1558
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:50,920
Speaker 1: Fraser's not a real psychiagy, He's a fra Yeah, but

1559
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 1: that's part of what makes it fun.

1560
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 4: I love, I love what a fraud that man is.

1561
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:59,520
Speaker 4: Absolutely god such a formative childhood crush.

1562
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 1: But asolutely absolutely, look it was formative. We're talking about Niles, right.

1563
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm talking about both of them.

1564
01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:08,280
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, good, yeah, absolutely, both of them. Sure, fine,

1565
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:13,240
Speaker 1: we throw Roz in there, sure, you know, honestly, throw

1566
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,760
Speaker 1: John Mahoney on that pile, and on a.

1567
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 4: Good day, maybe even Bulldog, you know.

1568
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 1: Maybe Bulldog if he's in a good mood. Right, Yeah,

1569
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:26,120
Speaker 1: I'm glad we're having this this complex Fraser talk ja.

1570
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,840
Speaker 1: So maris too once or twenty anyway, whatever, Oh, I.

1571
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:32,920
Speaker 4: Mean, her absence was very you know, sexially potent.

1572
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 1: Right, So the station management saw this as an endlessly

1573
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:42,679
Speaker 1: reproducible format. But they need people who actually have time.

1574
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 1: So they need people who they can pretender credible medical experts,

1575
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 1: but aren't enough of a credible medical expert to like,

1576
01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:52,599
Speaker 1: have better things to do. And this is where Laura

1577
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 1: Slishinger is going to come in.

1578
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:54,840
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1579
01:21:55,479 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 1: She first calls into Bill's show in nineteen seventy five.

1580
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:01,800
Speaker 1: Bill has an expert where he's asking women to call

1581
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:04,360
Speaker 1: in and say and tell him would you rather be

1582
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 1: a widow or a divorcee? Right, Laura calls in. She

1583
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:11,639
Speaker 1: uses a fake name, and she picks widow, and she explains, quote,

1584
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 1: then you don't have to second guess yourself whether you

1585
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 1: made the right choice in leaving. You don't feel guilt.

1586
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 1: Everybody feels sorry for you. They come over and cook

1587
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:19,479
Speaker 1: for you.

1588
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:21,840
Speaker 4: Oh slay, that's her reason.

1589
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:26,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. Bill recognizes two key things about Laura from this call.

1590
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 1: One of them is she has a good voice for

1591
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 1: radio and she speaks well, and she's someone who actually

1592
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:34,599
Speaker 1: might have some potential on the air, and the other

1593
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:38,479
Speaker 1: the larger is that she sounds hot, so he keeps

1594
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:40,160
Speaker 1: her on the line for twenty minutes and then he

1595
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:42,680
Speaker 1: has her produce his producer get her phone number, which

1596
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:46,559
Speaker 1: he's going to be a creep about. But that's all

1597
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:49,519
Speaker 1: for part two, Jamie, that's all for part two.

1598
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 4: I am I am invested.

1599
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:56,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, let's all come back in a day or

1600
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 1: so and we'll learn everything there is to know about

1601
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 1: the Doctor Laura Show.

1602
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 4: Like every episode, I'm like, I think she's going to

1603
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:07,479
Speaker 4: turn this around. I am a spit in the face

1604
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 4: of history. She's going to be an awesome person. I

1605
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 4: just know.

1606
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 1: This is This is where we learned that Doctor Laura

1607
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:15,280
Speaker 1: stopped the second nine to eleven.

1608
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:18,240
Speaker 4: You know, things wouldn't have gone that way if she

1609
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 4: was There.

1610
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:21,400
Speaker 1: Were going to be three more planes, but not. She

1611
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,720
Speaker 1: talked them all down. She told those hijackers to reconsider

1612
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:28,919
Speaker 1: their lives, you know, with this job, raise a family.

1613
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 1: She did it. Everybody saved us, all save the I

1614
01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:36,440
Speaker 1: don't know, some other building. I don't know, another famous building.

1615
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:38,759
Speaker 4: And even bigger one, the bigger one, Jamie.

1616
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 1: Where can people find you on the internet?

1617
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:43,600
Speaker 4: Well, Robert, you can find me on this very network.

1618
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:47,840
Speaker 4: You can find me every week on Tuesdays sixteenth Minute

1619
01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:51,920
Speaker 4: of Fame, where I talked to and about the main

1620
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 4: characters of the Internet and what their notoriety meant for

1621
01:23:56,800 --> 01:24:01,960
Speaker 4: the Internet and for them, and yeah, yeah, we Sophie

1622
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:05,120
Speaker 4: of course is the producer. You are a producer, and

1623
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:07,600
Speaker 4: Ian is an editor. So I mean, we're keeping it

1624
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:10,759
Speaker 4: in the family over there. And it's hot Dog season,

1625
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:13,560
Speaker 4: so get a copy of Raw Dog while you're on it. Tomorrow,

1626
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:16,960
Speaker 4: I am as we were recording this. Tomorrow, I'm flying

1627
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:19,840
Speaker 4: to New York to cover the Hot Dog contest. And

1628
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,800
Speaker 4: it's it's going to be a barn burner this year.

1629
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:25,639
Speaker 4: It's going to be very fraught. I can't wait.

1630
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:30,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Joey burn a barn down, Burn something down, folks.

1631
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:33,959
Speaker 1: That's all I ask for my listeners. Light a fire somewhere,

1632
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 1: you know, we can do least we can do. It

1633
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:39,439
Speaker 1: could be a legal fire, it could be an illegal fire.

1634
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:42,080
Speaker 1: I prefer fires that are a gray area. You know,

1635
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:45,559
Speaker 1: really like try to try to like get like like

1636
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 1: within six hours of a burn band starting, so you've

1637
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:51,360
Speaker 1: got that plausible deniability, you know, really gamble.

1638
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:54,720
Speaker 4: On like a sexy little Keep them guessing, you guess,

1639
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:55,599
Speaker 4: Keep them guessing.

1640
01:24:55,640 --> 01:24:57,760
Speaker 1: That's all I ask, Baby, That's all I ask.

1641
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:04,200
Speaker 2: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1642
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:07,840
Speaker 2: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia

1643
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:11,200
Speaker 2: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1644
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:11,559
Speaker 2: Apple

1645
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:13,680
Speaker 4: Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.