Speaker 1: About eleven years ago, we were in Haiti and I
Speaker 1: was introduced to a little girl who was thirteen. She
Speaker 1: spent three to four hours every day collecting water. So
Speaker 1: I say to this kid, I'm like, well, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of joke and say, now you have more
Speaker 1: time for homework. And she looks at me totally seriously,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I don't need more time to do homework.
Speaker 1: I'm the smartest kid in my class. And I said,
Speaker 1: all right, well, so what are you going to do
Speaker 1: with all this time that you just found? You your
Speaker 1: new found four hours a day. And she looked at
Speaker 1: me and she goes, I'm gonna play. Hey everyone, welcome
Speaker 1: back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in
Speaker 1: the world. Thanks to each and every single one of
Speaker 1: you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now,
Speaker 1: I know that our community add on Purpose. All of
Speaker 1: you are activists. Our community is dedicated to making positive
Speaker 1: change in the world. I know that all of you
Speaker 1: have got behind so many causes that we've prioritized and
Speaker 1: given a platform too on this podcast, and this is
Speaker 1: one of those episodes. So if you've been looking and
Speaker 1: waiting to do something positive in the world, to feel
Speaker 1: like you're a part of the solution. Then I want
Speaker 1: you to listen to this episode. I want you to
Speaker 1: share it with all your friends and family that are
Speaker 1: of the same energy and spirit, because this one's going
Speaker 1: to make a huge difference. Today I'm sweeking of two
Speaker 1: incredible guests, Gary White and Matt Damon, who are co
Speaker 1: founders of water dot Org and Water Equity. While everyone
Speaker 1: knows Matt as an actor and producer and screenwriter, in
Speaker 1: two thousand and six he founded H twenty Africa Foundation
Speaker 1: to raise awareness about water initiatives on the continent. Matt's
Speaker 1: active participation in the work of water or dot org
Speaker 1: and Water Equity has positioned him as one of the
Speaker 1: world's experts on water and sanitation issues now. In nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety one, Gary launched Water Partners, now the international NGEO
Speaker 1: known as water dot Org. Today, he leads two organizations
Speaker 1: in creating and executing mark driven solutions to the global
Speaker 1: water crisis, driving innovations in the way water and sanitation
Speaker 1: projects are delivered and financed. Welcome to on Purpose, Matt
Speaker 1: Damon and Gary White. Matt and Gary, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for being here. And I know today we're talking
Speaker 1: about your book, The Worth of Water, our story of
Speaker 1: chasing solutions to the world's greatest challenge. I highly recommend
Speaker 1: everyone goes and grabs a copy of the book while
Speaker 1: you're listening or watching, but we will be diving into
Speaker 1: that and discussing it. Gary and Matt, thank you for
Speaker 1: being here. It's so good to see you. Good to
Speaker 1: see you. Thank you for sharing your incredible platform with
Speaker 1: us too. This is really awesome. We appreciate it for sure.
Speaker 1: Thanks jay No, thank you for doing the work. You know.
Speaker 1: I spent three years living as a monk in India
Speaker 1: after business school, and a lot of the work we
Speaker 1: did was around building sustainable villages and a big part
Speaker 1: of that was making sure that clean water reach those places.
Speaker 1: So I have a personal affy to the work that
Speaker 1: you're doing, and so when this came across my desk,
Speaker 1: I was, to be honest, just super enthusiastic and excited
Speaker 1: to talk about it. I'd love to start off from
Speaker 1: both of you individually telling me about what is the
Speaker 1: water crisis and water issue right now for those who
Speaker 1: are unaware or those that have kind of seen it
Speaker 1: but kind of think, oh yeah, like isn't aren't. There
Speaker 1: are a lot of people dealing with that, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of been talked about for a while. I'd
Speaker 1: love to hear from both of your perspectives personally as
Speaker 1: to what you believe the issue is right now. Well,
Speaker 1: if I can go ahead and jump in, that's all right.
Speaker 1: It's it's so complex, it's kind of hard to distill
Speaker 1: it it. I'll give it a shot. I think that
Speaker 1: for us, we tend to think of the water crisis
Speaker 1: is something that's looming. We know that, you know, a
Speaker 1: climate change, water resources are getting more scarce, and that
Speaker 1: is a looming crisis, and it is important we should
Speaker 1: be focused on that. But for seven hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: one million people around the world today, the crisis is
Speaker 1: already upon them. Right. They're the ones that when they
Speaker 1: woke up this morning, they didn't necessarily know where they
Speaker 1: were going to get water for the day. They didn't
Speaker 1: know how much time they were going to have to
Speaker 1: spend walking to collect that water, or sometimes they have
Speaker 1: to buy it from these these urban slum vendors who
Speaker 1: sell it for prices that are ten to fifteen times
Speaker 1: more than what they would pay if they had a
Speaker 1: water connection. So to them, the water crisis is a
Speaker 1: daily struggle to make sure that they have enough water
Speaker 1: in order to kind of live the day. And then
Speaker 1: when you're struggling day to day like that, that water
Speaker 1: crisis becomes like a family health crisis, it becomes an
Speaker 1: education crisis, it becomes lack of employment crisis because your
Speaker 1: focus so much on getting water or paying for water
Speaker 1: that you're not in school, you're not healthy, and so
Speaker 1: it is basically something that's right now robbing hundreds of
Speaker 1: millions of people of their futures because until you have water,
Speaker 1: nothing else matters. Thank you for that, Gary, I really
Speaker 1: appreciate that. And the main thing that I'm hearing there
Speaker 1: is just we think of people just not having water
Speaker 1: to drink, and then it's almost like, well, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: let's think about the act of getting water and what
Speaker 1: that takes away time from i e. Their economic space,
Speaker 1: their home space, their family, the cooking, the feeding that,
Speaker 1: you know, everything that it expands out to. So thank
Speaker 1: you for that. I want to extend the same question
Speaker 1: to you as well. I'd love to hear about for
Speaker 1: you personally, what you see is the issue so well,
Speaker 1: I think Gary just did a pretty good summary there.
Speaker 1: But to follow on to that, I would just say
Speaker 1: that the effect of that, right, leaving aside the needless
Speaker 1: disease and death right that occurs when you don't have
Speaker 1: access to clean water and sanitation, you know, because we're
Speaker 1: losing a million children under the age of five, you know,
Speaker 1: to every year to completely preventable illness, right and and
Speaker 1: and so that's its own tragedy, right. But but when
Speaker 1: you look at the other effects of not having access, namely,
Speaker 1: you know, because this disproportionately affects women and girls. Uh,
Speaker 1: so many girls aren't in school because they they have
Speaker 1: to for the sake of the survival of their families,
Speaker 1: be out looking for water every day and so and
Speaker 1: so you can imagine what that does to the to
Speaker 1: the outcomes of their of their lives and to their potential.
Speaker 1: So it's not only this this needless disease and suffering.
Speaker 1: It's it's also robbing people of their potential in ways
Speaker 1: that are really incalculable. Um. And that was the very
Speaker 1: first water collection I went on. Um this is fifteen
Speaker 1: sixteen years ago, and I was in Zambia in this
Speaker 1: really rural village and and I was it had been
Speaker 1: arranged for me to meet this girl when she got
Speaker 1: home from school, and we walked together to this well
Speaker 1: and and and I talked to her. It was about
Speaker 1: a mile away. And in the course of our conversation,
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I said, are you going to
Speaker 1: live here for the rest of your life? Is this
Speaker 1: where you want to live? And she got really shy
Speaker 1: and she goes, no, No, I don't want to live here.
Speaker 1: I want to go to the big city. We're in
Speaker 1: this really rural area that she goes, I want to
Speaker 1: go to Lusaka. I want to be a nurse, right,
Speaker 1: and and I totally just connected to her because I
Speaker 1: remembered being fourteen and I was going to go to
Speaker 1: the big city with Ben Affleck and we were going
Speaker 1: to be actors. We were going to New York and
Speaker 1: and uh and that's like what a fourteen year old
Speaker 1: should be thinking about, right, They should be dreaming about
Speaker 1: their futures and the possibility that awaited them. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't until I got in the car and was driving
Speaker 1: away that I realized, had it not been for the
Speaker 1: foresight of someone to sink a borewell a mile from
Speaker 1: this kid's house, she wouldn't have been in school, you know,
Speaker 1: she wouldn't she wouldn't dream of someday being a nurse
Speaker 1: and contributing to the economic engine of her country, and
Speaker 1: and and and helping people, you know, being a health
Speaker 1: frontline healthcare worker, you know, all the things that and
Speaker 1: living her dream really right, and so and so that
Speaker 1: was kind of an epiphany for me. And and and
Speaker 1: just the far reaching effect of lack of access, because
Speaker 1: I really found that it underpinned everything, It undergirds every
Speaker 1: issue of extreme poverty, It touches all of them. And
Speaker 1: so the fact that nobody was really talking about it,
Speaker 1: and it was this vastly interesting and complex thing, massive
Speaker 1: problem that that was what first got me really interested. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that. And
Speaker 1: I think there was a line in the book that
Speaker 1: really struck me. And you said that for that girl,
Speaker 1: water was life, and it was also a shot at
Speaker 1: a better life. And when you make that comparison of
Speaker 1: what you were thinking about at fourteen, what she's thinking
Speaker 1: about at fourteen, now I'm thinking about what I was
Speaker 1: thinking about at fourteen. And I would encourage our listeners
Speaker 1: and viewers right now. And Gary, I'm sure you've thought
Speaker 1: about this many times, but I'd like everyone who's listening
Speaker 1: and watching to think, what were you thinking about at fourteen?
Speaker 1: What was your choice that you were having to make?
Speaker 1: And you just realize how far off it is from
Speaker 1: someone who doesn't have access to water and clean water,
Speaker 1: and that just makes you start pause and think and
Speaker 1: go wow, Like I may think I may not have
Speaker 1: this opportunity, or I may not have enough money to
Speaker 1: move to a city, but it's like here we're talking
Speaker 1: about not even having water and clean water to have
Speaker 1: access to, let alone all those choices. One thing that
Speaker 1: comes to mind, and I want to hear this from
Speaker 1: both of you because you know this has been work
Speaker 1: that you've been doing for a number of years. This
Speaker 1: is not something that you know, both of you've just
Speaker 1: got involved with. Then you know it's it's it's your
Speaker 1: life's work. It's it's it's something you're truly passionate about
Speaker 1: when you first saw the pain for both of you,
Speaker 1: when you first when I hear those numbers, seven hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy one million people, is that right? Did I
Speaker 1: get that a number? Right? Gary? Like seven hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy one million people you know don't have access to
Speaker 1: clean water. When I'm hearing Matts you share the statistic
Speaker 1: just right now, we're losing a million children at Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I'm hearing those numbers, they are so high, right,
Speaker 1: they're astronomical. I hear a lot to people when they're
Speaker 1: exposed to that much pain. Our natural inclination is to
Speaker 1: feel like we can't do anything, And our natural inclination
Speaker 1: is to feel a bit helpless, to feel sad, to
Speaker 1: feel disheartened. We feel like our empathy takes over and
Speaker 1: we go, well, what can I do? When you first
Speaker 1: saw that, what gave both of you the feeling a
Speaker 1: that you had to do something, but be that what
Speaker 1: you do could make a difference. Let's start there, and
Speaker 1: then I'll follow up with another question. Let's start there,
Speaker 1: and Garrett, you can go first again. For us, I
Speaker 1: came at it from a kind of an almost analytical
Speaker 1: perspective after I had that emotional response to it. Right, So,
Speaker 1: when I was in Guatemala as an undergraduate, you know,
Speaker 1: in university, doing a volunteer project there, just seeing this
Speaker 1: girl going and collecting this filthy water out of a drum,
Speaker 1: you know, in the slums, and walking back through this
Speaker 1: sewage filled lane that that to me was one person, right,
Speaker 1: and then coming back and then learning that this was
Speaker 1: the story for hundreds of millions of people, I didn't
Speaker 1: get discouraged. I just like could see that one person
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, if we can just kind of
Speaker 1: tackle this, you know, even one person at a time,
Speaker 1: that was kind of the idealistic view of it. And
Speaker 1: and so to me, what's been important about this journey
Speaker 1: that we kind of chronicle in the in the book
Speaker 1: is that you know, you have to have that in
Speaker 1: goal in mind, and that can be daunting to see that.
Speaker 1: You know, our vision is that everyone in our lifetime,
Speaker 1: you know, has access to say water, and that the
Speaker 1: challenge that becomes to match the scale of the solution
Speaker 1: to the scale of the problem. Right, And I knew
Speaker 1: that philanthropy alone wasn't going to be that solution. Philanthropy
Speaker 1: has a role to play, but it was only by
Speaker 1: traveling in meeting women who were in these circumstances. I
Speaker 1: met a woman in India who had gone to a
Speaker 1: loan shark and was paying one hundred and fifty percent
Speaker 1: interest to that loan shark just so she could build
Speaker 1: the toilet that she wanted other people who are doing
Speaker 1: this to taking out loans for water connections at exorbitant
Speaker 1: rates and then using those insights and saying, well, what
Speaker 1: if you know, we could turn the problem around and
Speaker 1: look at like getting these people access to these small
Speaker 1: loans what we now call water credit that would then
Speaker 1: unleash them to get the solutions that they wanted. So
Speaker 1: I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here, but my
Speaker 1: point is that you just have to take the problem
Speaker 1: a step at a time and find a solution that's there,
Speaker 1: evolve it, get the insights, and move on, and that
Speaker 1: is the journey. And I think that's one of these
Speaker 1: kind of the subplots I guess of the book is
Speaker 1: that any of these seemingly intractable, big social problems do
Speaker 1: have solutions. If you're tenacious, if you innovate, and you
Speaker 1: work hard at it, you believe that we can get there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's I would just say it's interesting because because I
Speaker 1: had the exact same kind of reaction that Gary did,
Speaker 1: which was to say, Okay, well, I'm this is a
Speaker 1: this is a complex issue, and I don't understand it entirely,
Speaker 1: but I know that if I raise money, if I
Speaker 1: create an organization and raise money and start start doing
Speaker 1: his direct impact. We're building wells, right, I've seen the
Speaker 1: power of one well, so if it if a thousand
Speaker 1: people have access to that one, well, then I've helped
Speaker 1: a thousand people. So why don't I start there? Why
Speaker 1: don't I just start moving forward? Why don't I start
Speaker 1: as Gary's you know, take that first step. I don't
Speaker 1: know where the road is going, but I know I'm
Speaker 1: not getting there if I don't start walking. And so
Speaker 1: so that was what and so I did, I'm sure
Speaker 1: incredibly naive things. And I didn't you know, and and Gary,
Speaker 1: you know when we met in the two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight Gary, you know, we talked about in the book,
Speaker 1: Gary led with all of his failures, right, which was
Speaker 1: an incredible attractive thing, incredibly attractive thing to me because
Speaker 1: I think that is how, you know, we can't be
Speaker 1: afraid of failure, We can't be afraid of you know,
Speaker 1: that can't stop our momentum, right, And it's how we learn,
Speaker 1: and it's how we grow um. And and and so
Speaker 1: I I knew that I had to partner with somebody
Speaker 1: who had a more sophisticated understanding of of of this issue,
Speaker 1: and I looked around for the the best person available
Speaker 1: and uh and when they would not take my call,
Speaker 1: I found Gary, So no I and and and that
Speaker 1: was really the one thing that I did, and this
Speaker 1: all of this work, that was really I'm really happy
Speaker 1: that I did that. It was that it was really
Speaker 1: one of the smartest choices I've ever made in my life.
Speaker 1: And because of this water credit that Gary is talking about,
Speaker 1: which was this idea that that came from his experience
Speaker 1: and his lifetime of experience of being in these communities
Speaker 1: and talk to people and understanding what life was like.
Speaker 1: He also understood that people in the poorest communities were
Speaker 1: paying for water. They were already paying for it, and
Speaker 1: in most cases paying way more than the middle class,
Speaker 1: way more than the people staying in the fancy hotels,
Speaker 1: you know, who take it totally for granted. They weren't
Speaker 1: connected to the infrastructure and as a result, their life
Speaker 1: was built around trying to get it. And uh. And
Speaker 1: so that insight led him to this hypothesis that these
Speaker 1: loans could actually be paid back quite easily. And that's
Speaker 1: what you know, forty three point seven million people later,
Speaker 1: you know, these loans have paid back at over ninety
Speaker 1: nine percent. So it's really the book is really us
Speaker 1: trying to bring the story of these women because you know,
Speaker 1: you know, over ninety percent of our borrowers or women
Speaker 1: and this kind of incredibly heroic women like an individual
Speaker 1: with you know, one by one by one, you know,
Speaker 1: to the tune of millions and millions of them have
Speaker 1: paid these loans back at at over ninety nine percent.
Speaker 1: And it's just a it's a beautiful story and it's
Speaker 1: and it's about philosophically how we feel about about trying
Speaker 1: to help. It's not a kind of paternalistic here's your solution,
Speaker 1: You're welcome. It's like it's going into the communities and
Speaker 1: and and and listening and then ultimately nudging a market
Speaker 1: towards people and letting them solve their own problems. And
Speaker 1: that's what we've seen happen now over forty three million times.
Speaker 1: And that's really cool. Yeah, that's that's an incredible impact.
Speaker 1: And I love the way you're thinking about it and
Speaker 1: the idea that there isn't just a one size fits
Speaker 1: all solution. It's not about throwing money at it. It's
Speaker 1: actually giving people the tools and the skills and the abilities,
Speaker 1: as you've rightly said, to solve their own challenges so
Speaker 1: that they feel empowered in the process rather than dependent
Speaker 1: again on another outside source. In another way, I mean,
Speaker 1: can you expand more for those who don't know how
Speaker 1: the lack of access to water impacts girls and women's
Speaker 1: more than boys and men, and and when you uncovered
Speaker 1: that tell us some of the reasons, because I don't
Speaker 1: know if everyone knows why or how that exists as
Speaker 1: a discrepancy, but also tell us some of the stories
Speaker 1: of some of the women that you've worked with as well.
Speaker 1: Women and girls have been the ones and families that
Speaker 1: have been charged with collecting the water for their households
Speaker 1: almost universally around the world. So they obviously have the
Speaker 1: greatest stake in this, and the greatest stake in trying
Speaker 1: to find a solution, and the greatest stake in ensuring
Speaker 1: that that solution is sustainable. And that to us, you know,
Speaker 1: is like an insight, that's an observation. So it's like, well,
Speaker 1: let's how are we going to shape our solutions to
Speaker 1: meet their needs? And that's why you know, more than
Speaker 1: eighty five percent of the borrowers under our water credit
Speaker 1: program are women, and so they're the ones that are
Speaker 1: repaying these loans at a ninety nine percent rate, and
Speaker 1: they are the ones that have even more incentive to
Speaker 1: make sure that if something breaks down, that it gets repaired.
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the beauties of water
Speaker 1: credit as well, because oftentimes water projects do break down.
Speaker 1: You know, some of the statistics are that about half
Speaker 1: of the water projects fail after five years. And if
Speaker 1: you have access to an ecosystem of finance for water
Speaker 1: and sanitation, not just a one and done grant, but
Speaker 1: you can access a micro loan to go get the
Speaker 1: the you know, solution that you need to fix you know,
Speaker 1: your your your water tap or whatever. That is an
Speaker 1: important part of the whole model and giving people you know,
Speaker 1: we talk about, you know, not necessarily seeing people living
Speaker 1: in poverty as a charity problem to be solved, as
Speaker 1: much as a market to be served. And in order
Speaker 1: to kind of make the market work, we have to
Speaker 1: kind of nudget towards the poor, which is what we
Speaker 1: do with with water dot org to help, you know,
Speaker 1: get microfinance institutions that we partner with around the world
Speaker 1: the to de risk this for them because it's a
Speaker 1: new thing to loan for water and toilets, and they're
Speaker 1: not quite sure how it works. So we can use
Speaker 1: our philanthropic capital to kind of help them do market
Speaker 1: research to design these loan products so that they can
Speaker 1: go out and make these forty three million loans that
Speaker 1: have happened so far. And that is kind of the concept.
Speaker 1: And you know, one way to just boil it down
Speaker 1: with a story, right A woman I met in the
Speaker 1: Philippines recently. Her name was Lunadiza, and she was paying
Speaker 1: sixty dollars a month to a water vendor who was
Speaker 1: selling water off the back of a truck, not even
Speaker 1: good quality water. And she took out a loan from
Speaker 1: one of our partners, and her loan repayment her payment
Speaker 1: each month is five dollars. Her water bill each month
Speaker 1: is five dollars. So right there, you see fifty dollars
Speaker 1: back in her pocket. I mean, think about you know,
Speaker 1: when you're living in poverty, fifty dollars is a lot
Speaker 1: of money. You can now work to get your kids
Speaker 1: into school. You know, you can now afford the medicines
Speaker 1: that you might need for your for your family. You
Speaker 1: can invest in your future and build a future. And
Speaker 1: I think that's what we're trying to help people unlock,
Speaker 1: and that's whose stories you know, we're fortunate to be
Speaker 1: able to tell in the book. Yeah, Gary, that what
Speaker 1: I find fascinating there, Matt, just before we come to
Speaker 1: you that how have those obviously those water vendors who
Speaker 1: are not selling the clean water or the best word,
Speaker 1: they've built up a certain level of authority and control
Speaker 1: and these markets, and like how is that is that
Speaker 1: being dismantled as well by you doing this work? Like
Speaker 1: where where are those people? Like? Kind of because I
Speaker 1: feel like that is so difficult obviously if you're not
Speaker 1: if you haven't traveled to these countries, it's hard for
Speaker 1: people to understand how that even works. But but that
Speaker 1: kind of like authority, influence and power and control, how
Speaker 1: are they reacting to the dismantling of their economies? Because
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's you know, conflict or pain back
Speaker 1: from that side, Like how does that all work? Sorry
Speaker 1: if it's an ignorant question, but it's just no, no,
Speaker 1: no at all. And I think that I guess one
Speaker 1: thing to understand is that even they are not making
Speaker 1: a fortune off of this system, right, It's uh, it's
Speaker 1: just really expensive to find water, to put it in
Speaker 1: a truck, to buy the diesel, to drive the truck
Speaker 1: around and distribute it. I mean, the efficiency of that
Speaker 1: versus doing it through a pipe is incredible, right, So
Speaker 1: it's no surprise that they have to charge those amounts.
Speaker 1: And so yes, there's going to be dislocations there with
Speaker 1: with some of these vendors, but we haven't seen that
Speaker 1: crop up as a problem. You know, it happens incrementally.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody in the world is used to kind
Speaker 1: of having to reinvent themselves, and so I think that
Speaker 1: you know, they might go on to other businesses and
Speaker 1: you have tanker truck water that's needed for construction site still,
Speaker 1: so they can kind of adjust to those types of markets.
Speaker 1: But that makes sense, and that what about you? Is
Speaker 1: there a particular story? I mean, there's plenty in the book,
Speaker 1: but if if there's someone that comes to mind, now
Speaker 1: where you know you saw women being more negatively affected
Speaker 1: by this than men. Obviously we've got the answer of
Speaker 1: why from Gary, But is there a particular story that
Speaker 1: stands out or an experience in that direction. About eleven
Speaker 1: years ago, we were in Haiti and at a we
Speaker 1: kind of were there for the kind of the christening
Speaker 1: of this new water system in this small village, and
Speaker 1: it was a real celebration. And amidst this celebration, I
Speaker 1: was introduced to a little girl who was thirteen, and
Speaker 1: you know, she and I got her story, and her
Speaker 1: story was that she spent three to four hours every
Speaker 1: day collecting water. And she was very lucky because that
Speaker 1: was she could still be in school. But after school,
Speaker 1: every day she went and she collected water. Took her
Speaker 1: three or four hours to get water for a family.
Speaker 1: So I say to this kid, I'm like, well, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of joke and say, now you
Speaker 1: have more time for homework, right, And she looks at
Speaker 1: me totally seriously, and she's like, I don't need more
Speaker 1: time to do homework. I'm the smartest kid in my class.
Speaker 1: And the way she said it, I knew she was
Speaker 1: telling me the truth. I was like, oh, I remember
Speaker 1: being thirteen, and like, I remember you in my class.
Speaker 1: You are this one. And uh And I said, all right, well,
Speaker 1: so what are you going to do with all this
Speaker 1: time that you just found that, you know, your your
Speaker 1: new found four hours a day. And she looked at
Speaker 1: me and she goes I'm gonna play. Wow. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I just in it. But it like buckled me, you know,
Speaker 1: I because at the time, my oldest daughter was thirteen,
Speaker 1: and you know, so again I felt that connection to
Speaker 1: this kid and like, what else should a thirteen year
Speaker 1: old girl be thinking about, you know, she should be
Speaker 1: thinking about playing? And that's you know again another one
Speaker 1: of those incalculable ways in which this is so pernicious, right.
Speaker 1: It just robs people of you know, in this case,
Speaker 1: it robs children of their childhoods, you know, and they're
Speaker 1: there and then their potential, the potential of their adulthood.
Speaker 1: So um so so yeah, it's things like that, and
Speaker 1: it's good for us. You know. We go out about
Speaker 1: once a year. I I I go once a year.
Speaker 1: Gary goes a little quite a lot more often, but
Speaker 1: um to to kind of go to these do these
Speaker 1: field visits and kind of connect to people and talk.
Speaker 1: And it's just because as these numbers are accelerating and
Speaker 1: we're and we're kind of going from strength to strength
Speaker 1: with our with our with our work, which is really exciting,
Speaker 1: it's it's important to kind of keep and you know,
Speaker 1: keep remind ourselves of of of what it means because
Speaker 1: it becomes numbers. Forty three point seven million people, I mean,
Speaker 1: what a number. But you know, I'm I'm still thinking
Speaker 1: about a girl I met twelve years ago, you know,
Speaker 1: And and so there are a lot there's so many
Speaker 1: millions of these people that will never meet. But um,
Speaker 1: but all of the stories are are like that, you know,
Speaker 1: and this is all about positive change. Yeah. Absolutely. As
Speaker 1: a follow up to that matter, how is how is
Speaker 1: your work with those people affected your daughter too? Because
Speaker 1: I'm intrigued as to how you know, for her seeing
Speaker 1: her father, you know, be so service focused and you know,
Speaker 1: giving energy to this like have you taken have you
Speaker 1: and Gary too, have you taken your kids out? Like
Speaker 1: you know, have have you taken other children out? Young
Speaker 1: people out? I'm just fascinating to hear how it feels
Speaker 1: when you're looking at someone your age as opposed to
Speaker 1: both of you obviously as older men looking at younger people,
Speaker 1: but like to have people looking at people their own
Speaker 1: age who have this mindset. I would love to hear
Speaker 1: some stories in that regard. I talk about in the
Speaker 1: book My Mom and and how she took me as
Speaker 1: a teenager to hit places where I witnessed extreme poverty
Speaker 1: and it was you know, and she didn't do any
Speaker 1: finger wagging at me or lecturing. She just let me
Speaker 1: absorb it. And it really impacted me. And so my
Speaker 1: kids are what our oldest is twenty three, and so
Speaker 1: she's out of the nest. And then we've got a
Speaker 1: fifteen to thirteen and eleven year old. And so I've
Speaker 1: taken the twenty three year old and and uh, and
Speaker 1: I've taken our fifteen year old. We took her on
Speaker 1: a trip to the Philippines a few years ago, so
Speaker 1: she might have been thirteen at the time. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of eat different with each kid. You
Speaker 1: kind of see why at what age can you is
Speaker 1: this gonna be positive? Positive? You know, it's it's just
Speaker 1: gonna influence you posatively. And so I took my my,
Speaker 1: my daughter and her best friend on a trip and
Speaker 1: it was and it was great. And it's you know,
Speaker 1: letting them absorb, you know, with the kind of privilege
Speaker 1: that they have and they come from and that you know,
Speaker 1: this is all about where you're born, and you're born
Speaker 1: into a family you don't have any you know, say
Speaker 1: over it, and uh, and and and letting them try
Speaker 1: to put their let them try to put their lives
Speaker 1: in some context, which is how I felt, what I
Speaker 1: felt happened to me when when I when I when
Speaker 1: my mother introduced me to a larger world, Suddenly my
Speaker 1: life started to make more sense, right and I and
Speaker 1: you know, we're all trapped in these subjective realities and
Speaker 1: limited by them in some way. But I feel like
Speaker 1: travel and experience like this is kind of the greatest
Speaker 1: gift because it helps at least to try to open
Speaker 1: us up. Yeah. I think that's beautiful what you said
Speaker 1: about gauging when it's right for the individual, because everyone,
Speaker 1: you know, there's no right age for any of them
Speaker 1: to have this experience, but really making it personalized, I
Speaker 1: think that makes a lot of sense. Gary. How about you,
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I had
Speaker 1: a chance to take my daughter to Kenya and Ethiopia
Speaker 1: when she was about the same age as MAT's daughter,
Speaker 1: when we were in the Philippines, and uh, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's you know, those types of experiences you never know
Speaker 1: how they're going to reverberate later, you know, certainly, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, having that experience helped shape her. You know,
Speaker 1: she's done some great volunteer work herself. She was a
Speaker 1: volunteer teacher, you know, after she got out of college,
Speaker 1: and so I think some of the echoes of what
Speaker 1: she saw there and experience there, and the fortune that
Speaker 1: she has relative to many others in the world as
Speaker 1: has cropped up and will continue to. Yeah. Absolutely, I
Speaker 1: want you to explain Gary. We've mentioned it a few
Speaker 1: times now, uh, and of course you talk about it
Speaker 1: deeply in the book. For our audience, I'd love to
Speaker 1: for you to explain exactly, in a simple way, how
Speaker 1: warter credit work. And then, Matt, I want you to
Speaker 1: talk about when you actually, you know, you had a
Speaker 1: hard time accepting the idea behind water credit, and then
Speaker 1: what made you change your mind to it, because I
Speaker 1: think that's what I find fascinating about this partnership between
Speaker 1: both of you is that it wasn't just like this,
Speaker 1: Oh we both loved this, let's get on, you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't It wasn't as simple as that. There's there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of planning, thought, intention behind this partnership
Speaker 1: between both of you, and I'd love to understand that's Gary,
Speaker 1: if you can explain what it is how it works,
Speaker 1: how it functions. We've obviously heard about some of the
Speaker 1: benefits and some elements of how it works, but I
Speaker 1: just want people to have a really clear idea and
Speaker 1: then Matt, if you could tell us about your journey
Speaker 1: with how you change your mind about it, that would
Speaker 1: be great for sure. I mean, I'd be happy to
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it is rooted in that concept
Speaker 1: that people are already paying for water right the challenges
Speaker 1: they don't have that you know, two three hundred, four
Speaker 1: hundred dollars up front that they need to get a
Speaker 1: water connection, or to build a toilet at their home,
Speaker 1: or to install a handpumper a water tank, and so
Speaker 1: they are struggling day to day. They can afford you know,
Speaker 1: a dollar or two a day to get water, but
Speaker 1: they can't afford those those large investments. And so what
Speaker 1: we saw, you know, we saw that people were struggling
Speaker 1: with this, and so it's like, well, what if we
Speaker 1: could get microfinance institutions that are already operating around the
Speaker 1: world just to make loans to them. That makes complete sense, right,
Speaker 1: and then they would repay the loans. Well, we went
Speaker 1: knocking on the doors of a lot of those MFIs
Speaker 1: microfinance institutions, and we kind of got the door slammed
Speaker 1: in our face, Like, you guys don't understand microfinance. It's
Speaker 1: about income generating loans. You know, we make loans for
Speaker 1: sewing machines or cows because like, by the end of
Speaker 1: the week, you're generating revenue because you're selling clothes and
Speaker 1: you're selling milk, and this is why it works. And
Speaker 1: we're like, but we believe it will work because it's
Speaker 1: going to help these people work at paying jobs and
Speaker 1: you know that part of it. So it's like we'll
Speaker 1: take on the risk. And this is why we raise
Speaker 1: philanthropic capital because we need to make grants to a
Speaker 1: lot of these part so that they can derisk these
Speaker 1: types of loans, so that they can do the market
Speaker 1: research and understand what things are good to loan for,
Speaker 1: what technologies are good, which ones are not, to help
Speaker 1: them then launch lending businesses. Once they do, then they
Speaker 1: go to the capital markets and get the wholesale capital,
Speaker 1: then break it into millions of these micro loans. And
Speaker 1: so for a woman who gets that loan literally overnight,
Speaker 1: you know, she may have been spending three hours a
Speaker 1: day securing water the day before. She now has a
Speaker 1: water tap right at her home, and so literally the
Speaker 1: values created overnight for her to go out and work
Speaker 1: at a paying job so that she can repay the loan.
Speaker 1: And now you fast forward in these loans, three point
Speaker 1: five billion dollars in loans have gone out and they're
Speaker 1: repaid at a ninety nine percent rate. Over eighty five
Speaker 1: percent of the borrowers live on less than six dollars
Speaker 1: a day, about thirty percent live on less than two
Speaker 1: dollars a day, and yet they keep coming for word
Speaker 1: to take out these loans because it makes sense for them,
Speaker 1: and they get the solutions that they want, and they
Speaker 1: don't feel like a charity case anymore. They feel like
Speaker 1: a market as a customer that's being served. And that's
Speaker 1: how the whole thing can work financially. So that we've
Speaker 1: now got the financial plumbing, if you will, that connects
Speaker 1: the global capital markets where people can get a financial
Speaker 1: return on their investment. Two women making a few dollars
Speaker 1: a day, everybody wins and we all move forward. Yeah, Gary,
Speaker 1: thank you for that. Thanks for connecting the dots. I
Speaker 1: know we talked about, you know, parts of that all
Speaker 1: over this conversation so far. But that was a really
Speaker 1: comprehensive breakdown, and I think that really helps because there's
Speaker 1: so many facets of that that I think is new.
Speaker 1: It's just so new, it's so alien to us, which
Speaker 1: just shows how big an issue it is and how
Speaker 1: much emphasis it needs. And Matt tell us about when
Speaker 1: you first had the idea and you were skeptical slightly,
Speaker 1: I guess, and then you obviously have come around one
Speaker 1: was excited about it as I, as you know, as
Speaker 1: I kind of drilled down on it and and and
Speaker 1: and really worked it over with Gary and thought about it.
Speaker 1: But there there was the aspect of it that was
Speaker 1: a little stomach turning, which was, wait a minute, we're
Speaker 1: going to make people, the poorest people on earth pay
Speaker 1: for you know. I mean they're gonna take these, We're
Speaker 1: gonna loan the money. We're not gonna right. But but
Speaker 1: philosophically we're very aligned in this idea about you know,
Speaker 1: charity quote unquote charity, and and and and how as
Speaker 1: you like like there's a paternalistic aspect to it. There's
Speaker 1: a there's a kind of you know, here's your solution,
Speaker 1: You're welcome, you know, uh, arrogance about it oftentimes. And
Speaker 1: and and what Gary's talking about is with these loan programs,
Speaker 1: the dignity that come with them, right, And it's it's
Speaker 1: it's the dignity on the side of the borrower, but
Speaker 1: it's also on the side of the lender kind of going.
Speaker 1: I see you as a human being. You're a customer,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, we can do business. It's
Speaker 1: a very different relationship than you're just some problem I
Speaker 1: got to throw money at, right, and and so so
Speaker 1: I I got over that pretty quickly, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: my stomach is like, oh god, market based solutions, Oh no,
Speaker 1: what am I doing? But um but when I really
Speaker 1: thought about it, and you know, it struck me as
Speaker 1: completely brilliant and um. And and that's been borne out.
Speaker 1: I mean, we you know, we reached our first million
Speaker 1: people in twenty twelve, and and now you know we're
Speaker 1: you know, we're at forty three million, we're reaching you know,
Speaker 1: however many million a quarter now, um, And it's just
Speaker 1: really accelerating and that and that is illustrative of of
Speaker 1: you know, the demand, right, the demand for these loans
Speaker 1: because they make sense and um. And it's not that
Speaker 1: paternalistic kind of charity solution that's going to be not
Speaker 1: working in five years because it's nobody's going to take
Speaker 1: a loan out for something they don't want. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they know what solution they need, and that's what they're
Speaker 1: going to take a loan out for. And it's going
Speaker 1: to work. And that's a sustainable solution for somebody. And
Speaker 1: it's also them solving their own problem. And and it
Speaker 1: just took us to to to to nudge the market
Speaker 1: towards them and let them claim their own agency and
Speaker 1: and and solve their own problem with with dignity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that point in dignity is so powerful and
Speaker 1: so important. It's I know exactly what you mean. It
Speaker 1: takes a while to get it around there because you're like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, are we charging people for you know,
Speaker 1: like how how does this work? But yeah, and they're
Speaker 1: going like if you're going across the desert and you
Speaker 1: see somebody, you know, thirsty, you know, and then you
Speaker 1: sell them a bottle of water, like you know, it
Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't feel right, you know. Yeah. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: but you're saying as as you rightly said that from
Speaker 1: a long term perspective and from a sustainability perspective, this
Speaker 1: person is now building confidence. They're they're building it, as
Speaker 1: you said, a sense of agency. They're feeling empowered, they're
Speaker 1: feeling a sense of assurance that they are growing through
Speaker 1: this journey as well, and they're able to, as you said,
Speaker 1: learn it for things that are important to them. Tell
Speaker 1: me about this partnership for change that you both have,
Speaker 1: because I think, you know, I wonder whether when both
Speaker 1: of you got passionate, because as far as I know,
Speaker 1: you got passionate independently and then of course connected with
Speaker 1: each other about this cause when you're looking for a
Speaker 1: partnership for change, I think that can you know, take
Speaker 1: a lot of time, effort, patience. There's so many things
Speaker 1: that need to align. If there are people in our
Speaker 1: community audience thinking right now, like I'd love to have
Speaker 1: someone else in my life that I could work with
Speaker 1: passionately about this, or I would love to find someone
Speaker 1: what are some of the things that they should look for, Matt.
Speaker 1: We obviously know Gary was your second choice, so we'll
Speaker 1: start with what you're looking for in your first choice.
Speaker 1: And Gary, I'm sure you had some other picks too,
Speaker 1: but no, I would love to know what you were
Speaker 1: looking for an a partner. Were you even looking or
Speaker 1: was it just it was just so like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful that I've bumped into someone who has
Speaker 1: this passion. From both of your perspectives, I'd love to
Speaker 1: hear how you approach this, because making a change is
Speaker 1: not easy. It's a long journey. You need different skill
Speaker 1: sets and different networks and communities, and so I often
Speaker 1: think that a lot of people say, oh, yeah, when
Speaker 1: when I find someone, then I can do something. You
Speaker 1: were both independently. I mean, Gary, you started in your
Speaker 1: college days, right, So I want to hear about how
Speaker 1: it was in the search of a partner, the pursuit
Speaker 1: of the partner, and then what you actually looked for
Speaker 1: and why it was a good fit. Well, I was
Speaker 1: looking for the expert in the space, and that Gary's
Speaker 1: name was the name that kept coming up, and um
Speaker 1: and and in getting to know him, it was just
Speaker 1: clear why. And I mean he's just brilliant and these
Speaker 1: I mean this water credit innovation is a really big deal.
Speaker 1: Um and uh and and and he arrived at that
Speaker 1: through his through his intelligence, but also through his tenacity.
Speaker 1: And so he was he was a logical partner for
Speaker 1: me exactly what I was looking for. I you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of woke up in my late twenties with
Speaker 1: this very bizarre reality of being a celebrity and and
Speaker 1: uh and and and wanted to find ways to do
Speaker 1: something good with that and and I needed help, you know,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to be effective. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: just It wasn't about soothing my own you know, ego.
Speaker 1: It was about really trying to do something that was helpful.
Speaker 1: Um and uh. And I think just in meeting Gary,
Speaker 1: like you know, we we joined our organizations and he
Speaker 1: had had Water Partners at that point for twenty years
Speaker 1: and instantly gave up the title of Water Partners and
Speaker 1: for water dot org. And I think that showed like
Speaker 1: the humility, the lack of ego, right, And I think
Speaker 1: we both came at it from that perspective. It was
Speaker 1: never about us or about ego. It was really about
Speaker 1: how can we be most effective? Right and that and
Speaker 1: we're really aligned in that way and um and in
Speaker 1: that sense, it's just the perfect partner for me. That's beautiful.
Speaker 1: You you made up for it, Matt. That was very
Speaker 1: half half out and uh, now January that that's that's
Speaker 1: so wonderful to hear. I love hearing about that, and
Speaker 1: and the quality of humility and like you said, being
Speaker 1: able to put aside water partners and start something on
Speaker 1: the water doorg. That's fantastic, Gary, Gary your thoughts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, uh, you know, the serendipity of it was,
Speaker 1: that's definitely a play allowing our paths to cross. But certainly,
Speaker 1: you know, I had been heads down on this problem
Speaker 1: and had been trying to innovate and you know, this
Speaker 1: this whole concept of you know, coming at it from.
Speaker 1: You know, initially I was very much about like, let's
Speaker 1: go drill wells and let's uh, you know, raise a
Speaker 1: lot of money and give it away, but quickly realized
Speaker 1: that there was never going to be enough, right, and
Speaker 1: so this concept of lighting a candle versus cursing the
Speaker 1: darkness is kind of where where I came at it from.
Speaker 1: And so I was trying to to find those ways
Speaker 1: to do that, and we you know, we were catching on.
Speaker 1: You know, the water credit was was like it wasn't
Speaker 1: like game Busters yet, but we knew that we kind
Speaker 1: of had you know, a tiger by the tail in
Speaker 1: terms of how this could scale and but you know,
Speaker 1: I'm an engineer, Like I don't what do I know
Speaker 1: about storytelling? What do I know about like moving an audience?
Speaker 1: What do I know about like having a big voice
Speaker 1: in this? Because we were ready for that, because it
Speaker 1: we you know, we had a certain amount of humility
Speaker 1: until that point. And then it's like, now we got
Speaker 1: to tell the story and then to be able to
Speaker 1: get introduced to and cross paths with, you know, an
Speaker 1: incredible storyteller that Matt is, and seeing that firsthand, it
Speaker 1: just was, you know, it was one of those things
Speaker 1: one plus one equals three D for sure, and it
Speaker 1: seemed that way at first for both of us. But
Speaker 1: then as we got to know each other kind of
Speaker 1: at a deeper level, our philosophies and our upbringings and
Speaker 1: our experiences, it's just like, Okay, I can really trust
Speaker 1: this guy. I think we've both felt that for both directions.
Speaker 1: And once you have that trust and you have you know,
Speaker 1: everything set in motion, it's kind of a table set
Speaker 1: for you and you bring those relative strengths. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: I can certainly say Matt has evolved more as a
Speaker 1: water expert than I have as an actor. But there
Speaker 1: but what I also he didn't tell you earlier is
Speaker 1: I went to Ben Affleck first, he turned me down.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. You've both been so
Speaker 1: generous with your time. I have one last question, which
Speaker 1: is just how people can support. Of course, I highly
Speaker 1: recommend everyone goes and grabs a copy of the book
Speaker 1: The Worth of Water, our story of chasing solutions to
Speaker 1: the world's greatest challenge. It will be in the comments,
Speaker 1: the caption, the bio, the link in the podcast. You
Speaker 1: can go and order the book right now. But Gary,
Speaker 1: you used a water metaphor at the end of the
Speaker 1: chapter of the chapter called the wave, and you said
Speaker 1: to end the crisis, we need a wave. I would
Speaker 1: love to know how my community can be a part
Speaker 1: of that wave. How I can be a part of
Speaker 1: that wave. What are the opportunities and ways people can
Speaker 1: get involved, because I think ultimately there's there's going to
Speaker 1: be no one who reads the book that isn't moved
Speaker 1: by the work. Who everything you've shared today, I think
Speaker 1: we'll want to move people into action. How can people
Speaker 1: support That's that's the last question I want to ask you,
Speaker 1: because I know I'm mindful of your time as well.
Speaker 1: That's a great question, and you know this, we do
Speaker 1: need that support. This is such a big crisis. It's
Speaker 1: all hands on deck and there are a number of ways.
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, as authors, Matt and I are
Speaker 1: donating all of our fees back to water dot org
Speaker 1: for the book. So every time somebody buys the book,
Speaker 1: you are helping people get access to safe water. You know,
Speaker 1: if the book moves you take it to your book club,
Speaker 1: you know, spread the word that way, you know, pass
Speaker 1: the book on to someone else, because it is you know,
Speaker 1: these individual acts of people who provide that that funding
Speaker 1: that we need so that these individual stories that are
Speaker 1: in the book can come to life. That is what
Speaker 1: it's going to take from from all of us. And
Speaker 1: to the extent that you know you're using your voice,
Speaker 1: Jay to help make this happen, We greatly appreciate. Yeah. Absolutely, No,
Speaker 1: I would love to visit one of the places with
Speaker 1: you one day. I think it would be a really
Speaker 1: beautiful experience for me my team too, So we would
Speaker 1: love to have it. Yeah, Yeah, that would be really Yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be really beautiful. That would be wonderful to do. So, Matt,
Speaker 1: did you want to add anything to everything that Garager said?
Speaker 1: Of how anyone can get involved or anything that comes
Speaker 1: to your mind or hot well, yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: five dollars to bring a person clean water for life.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, so it's not you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, it's it's it's it's crazy, but but that's
Speaker 1: what it is. And and uh and yeah, and the
Speaker 1: book obviously, you know, uh will you know all the
Speaker 1: you know, our money goes towards that, so um so yeah,
Speaker 1: and and and please share the story and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: talk about it. It's it's a really fascinating issue, I
Speaker 1: promise if you want to engage with it. And uh
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, and and and try to kind
Speaker 1: of move the needle, um, because it's again so hard
Speaker 1: for us to relate, you know, because because water is
Speaker 1: in such abundance for us. Yeah. And as we always
Speaker 1: say on purpose, it's like when we are a part
Speaker 1: of the solution, the view of the problem changes. Right
Speaker 1: when you see these stories. And that's why I love
Speaker 1: what Gary and Matt have done here. When you read
Speaker 1: these stories and you hear these stories, and when you'll
Speaker 1: share the book with people and you get to see
Speaker 1: that change does work, that there are positive stories that
Speaker 1: you know, we do live in a world that has
Speaker 1: challenges and issues, but that five dollars could make a
Speaker 1: difference to someone's daily life and how they feel when
Speaker 1: they wake up in the morning, and that makes a
Speaker 1: difference like that has a ripple effect. And I think
Speaker 1: we need to tell these stories more because we can
Speaker 1: get caught up in the stories if we can't do
Speaker 1: anything and we are helpless. But Gary and Matt, I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful that you've given us a platform through which
Speaker 1: we can all feel like we're having an impact. Again,
Speaker 1: highly recommend everyone grabbed the book. As you said, all
Speaker 1: proceeds from the book go towards all the amazing work.
Speaker 1: And I thank you both for taking the time and
Speaker 1: give me or energy and look forward to continuing to
Speaker 1: support you guys. So thank you so much for what
Speaker 1: you're doing. It's it's so powerful. Really appreciate it. Thanks
Speaker 1: j take care. Thank you so much. Everyone who's been
Speaker 1: listening or watching, make sure you share this interview, pass
Speaker 1: it along, tag us all on social media, letting us
Speaker 1: know what's resonated with you, what's connected with you. Share it.
Speaker 1: When you order the book, tag me to let me
Speaker 1: know you've ordered it. So that I can reshare that
Speaker 1: across social media as well. And thank you all for
Speaker 1: listening and watching. Thanks Matt, Thanks Gary, thank you so much.