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Speaker 1: Hurglar is Emily Abodi here. Welcome back to Hurdle, a

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Speaker 1: podcast that talks to top CEOs and entrepreneurs who've gotten

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Speaker 1: through some of life's most difficult times hurdles, if you will,

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Speaker 1: by leaning into wellness. This week in episode twenty four,

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Speaker 1: I'm catching up with Naha Gandhi, she's the cooo and

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Speaker 1: nitor in chief of Girl Boss. Before we get into it,

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Speaker 1: a quick shout out to the sponsor of today's episode, Athleticgreens.

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Speaker 1: Can I tell you at last week's installment of Hurdle

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Speaker 1: Live with Michael Chreanell and Dan Churchill and doctor Jason Worslin,

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Speaker 1: there couldn't have been more Athleticgreens love to go around.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's talking about how they not only use the Greens

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Speaker 1: powder regularly, but swear by it, and that's how you

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Speaker 1: know it's a quality product.

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Speaker 2: Athletic Greens is offering.

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Speaker 1: A special deal to Hurdle listeners for twenty free travel packs.

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Speaker 1: That's a ninety nine dollars value with your first purchase.

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Speaker 1: Just go to Athleticgreens dot com slash Hurdle to claim it.

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Speaker 1: No code necessary. Again, that's Athleticgreens dot Com. Slash Hurdle.

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Speaker 2: So let's chat Neha.

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Speaker 1: You know, we recorded this episode a couple of months

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Speaker 1: ago during my LA stint, and listening back to the

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Speaker 1: content this week, I remember how lucky I felt walking

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Speaker 1: out of their offices in Silver Lake. For those of

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Speaker 1: you who may be newer to Hurdle or just aren't

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Speaker 1: up to speed on my backstory, I spend most of

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Speaker 1: my days writing and editing content for a living as

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Speaker 1: a freelance journalist for a bunch of different brands, from

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Speaker 1: Shape and GQ to Pop Sugger Runners, Rold Cosmopalden Well

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Speaker 1: and Good Self a bunch more.

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Speaker 2: Neha has worked her way.

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Speaker 1: Up the ranks through some of the most respected editorial

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Speaker 1: brands in the field to.

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Speaker 2: Get to where she is today.

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Speaker 1: So needless to say, her career wisdom is on point

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Speaker 1: and it really really resonated with me. Whether or not

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Speaker 1: you're a journalist, it's the kind of actionable advice that

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Speaker 1: can help anyone advance in their field.

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Speaker 2: We talk about a lot of other things too.

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Speaker 1: We talk about her big cross country move from New

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Speaker 1: York to LA almost a year ago, and that move

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Speaker 1: left her feeling a little bit lonely, leaning into routines

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Speaker 1: like exercise and meditation to help her feel some sort

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Speaker 1: of consistency in all of the newness. I will babble

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Speaker 1: on for much longer. As always, Please take a second

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Speaker 1: to rate and review Hurdle in the iTunes store. Follow

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Speaker 1: along with Hurdle on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, at Hurdle Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Post a screen grab of you listening to the episode

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Speaker 1: on your Instagram account. Do it right now and I'll

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Speaker 1: definitely make sure to repost it on hurdles. Feel free

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Speaker 1: to shoot me in email so we can chat about

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Speaker 1: all the things, maybe a Hurdle moment of your own.

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Speaker 1: My emails Emily at hurdle dot us, and I think

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Speaker 1: one more time, a huge thank you to everyone who

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Speaker 1: came out to last week's Hurdle Live. It feels so

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Speaker 1: awesome to bring together so many great people in the

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Speaker 1: same room who are just active and passionate and care

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Speaker 1: about in person, real relationships.

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Speaker 2: It's the best.

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Speaker 1: If you're in the New York City area, please come

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Speaker 1: out to the next Hurdle Live taping on October thirtieth

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Speaker 1: at Paragon Sports. I'll be sitting down with the co

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Speaker 1: founder of on Running caspar Coopetti. You can get all

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Speaker 1: the details about the live podcast taping at parag on

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Speaker 1: Hurdle's website Hurdle dot us.

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Speaker 2: And that's it. Let's get to hurdling today.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting here with Neha Gandhi. She is the editor

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Speaker 1: in chief and COO of girl Boss.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for sitting down with me today.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: I think first and foremost what we should do is

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Speaker 1: talk to the audience a little bit about what girl

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Speaker 1: Boss is.

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Speaker 2: So we are in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 3: We are in Los Angeles, in Silver Lake, at our

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Speaker 3: HQ where most of our team works. And girl Boss

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Speaker 3: is a company that's almost a year and a half old.

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Speaker 3: It's rooted in the best selling book from twenty fourteen

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Speaker 3: that Sophia Amarusso wrote, so called girl Boss. And we

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Speaker 3: are a platform in a community for women who want

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Speaker 3: to think and talk about success in many different ways.

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Speaker 3: At our heart and soul, we believe that there's not

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Speaker 3: just one definition of success. We believe that you may

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Speaker 3: think success means one thing today, you may believe that

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Speaker 3: it means something entirely different tomorrow, and then again the

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Speaker 3: third day. That definition is perpetually shifting, and my definition

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Speaker 3: doesn't have to look the same as your definition, and

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Speaker 3: we want to have conversations with women where they can

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Speaker 3: really define and redefine that idea for themselves and it

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Speaker 3: doesn't have to look the same also as something that

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Speaker 3: you know, someone in a nineteen fifty's boardroom determined that

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Speaker 3: it had to look like once upon a time. So

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Speaker 3: we want to have those conversations, but we want to

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Speaker 3: back them up with resources and connections. So we have

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Speaker 3: a website, girl boss dot com.

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Speaker 2: Go check it out.

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Speaker 3: We're on all of the social channels, we send email,

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Speaker 3: we have two conferences a year called the girl Boss Rally,

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Speaker 3: and we're building a community that I'm excited to talk

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Speaker 3: more about later later.

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Speaker 1: So you joined the team here at girl Boss about

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Speaker 1: nine months ago.

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Speaker 3: Actually it's been over a year. I went to LA

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Speaker 3: about nine months ago, but yeah, I've been here for

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Speaker 3: a little over a year now.

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Speaker 2: So were you working remotely for the first three months?

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Speaker 2: I was? Was that super challenging? It really was.

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Speaker 3: I walked into working remotely thinking it was going to

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Speaker 3: be the best time of my life, and it was horrible.

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Speaker 3: I think that there are two personalities of people who

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Speaker 3: work remotely, and one of those personalities is the one

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Speaker 3: that is well suited to doing it. I'm of the

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Speaker 3: other personality wherein I was working in New York and

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Speaker 3: I was so excited to be up before the rest

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Speaker 3: of the team and get work done. But then once

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Speaker 3: everyone had trickled into the office, I feel like there

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Speaker 3: is this sort of this weird sense of like you

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Speaker 3: don't want people to think you're not on and available

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Speaker 3: just because they can't see you. So you're working remotely

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Speaker 3: and you're hyper available, which means you don't get all

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Speaker 3: that much of the stuff on your to do list done,

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Speaker 3: and then you end up working late and early. So

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Speaker 3: it's like somehow when I was working remotely, I felt

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Speaker 3: more tethered to my laptop and like my kitchen table

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Speaker 3: than I have to any desk I've ever sat at

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Speaker 3: in an office.

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Speaker 1: And you've sat at some pretty impressive desks. So why

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Speaker 1: don't you tell me just a little bit about your

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Speaker 1: career background and then we can get just a little

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Speaker 1: bit more personal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I graduated from college and sort of found my

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Speaker 3: way into an internship.

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Speaker 2: Where did you go to college?

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Speaker 3: I went to Princeton and I had done one media

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Speaker 3: internship during the time I was there, sort of like

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Speaker 3: used internships in college as like a process of elim nation,

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Speaker 3: like how to figure out what you don't want to do.

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Speaker 3: So I worked for nonprofit, I worked for a congressman.

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Speaker 3: I worked for People magazine one summer.

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Speaker 2: And I loved it. What did you major in?

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Speaker 3: I majored in English. I had like minors and like

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Speaker 3: American studies and like French language and literature. So all

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Speaker 3: the really useful stuff that like your parents know is

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Speaker 3: going to make that education super worthwhile. But no, I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think college for me was a luxury because it

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Speaker 3: was a level arts degree that taught me how to

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Speaker 3: think and taught me how to learn and you know,

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Speaker 3: be a perpetual student, and I think those things are

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Speaker 3: absolutely all luxuries. It was an a vocational degree, so

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Speaker 3: it didn't set me up to say, hey, this is

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Speaker 3: what I definitely want to do. And when I looked

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Speaker 3: around at all my peers, the things that they were

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Speaker 3: all doing were going into banking, going into consulting, and

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Speaker 3: going and going to grad school. So they were either

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Speaker 3: going to law school or med school. And I didn't

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Speaker 3: want to do any of those things. But it's tough

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Speaker 3: to figure out what you want to do if there

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Speaker 3: isn't like a clear, demonstrable path in front of you.

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Speaker 3: So I interned people. I loved it. I was like, great,

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Speaker 3: I had this one amazing internship. I'm going to go

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Speaker 3: out to New York City and I'm going to find

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Speaker 3: a job. And I was competing with all these people

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Speaker 3: who had, you know, been like they'd gone to Columbia,

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Speaker 3: they'd gone to NYU, they had like seven different internships

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Speaker 3: under their belt. And I was like, oh, I'm like

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Speaker 3: not totally qualified for these editorial assistant jobs that I'm

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Speaker 3: applying to. Or maybe I am, but like I'm not

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Speaker 3: as qualified as the people I'm competing against. So I

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Speaker 3: took a paid internship at in Style. I paid like

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Speaker 3: six dollars and twenty five cents an hour, and I

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Speaker 3: did that job for under six just under six months.

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Speaker 3: And that was how I made my way in. You know,

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Speaker 3: I lied on my resume. I said I was living

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Speaker 3: in New York already. I was like living in my parents'

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Speaker 3: place in Atlanta over the summer. And they were like, great,

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Speaker 3: can you start Monday? And I was like absolutely, And

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Speaker 3: I backed my two suitcases and like flew to New

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Speaker 3: York that weekend and started my internship. Did you say

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Speaker 3: I stayed at my friend Kate's.

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Speaker 2: Couch at least say you know, well, that was.

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Speaker 3: The benefit of like having gone to college close by

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Speaker 3: so many friends in the area, and they'd started there

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Speaker 3: like banking and consulting jobs in July and this is August,

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Speaker 3: so they were settled, which is fortunate. But that was

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Speaker 3: how I got to New York. And then I did

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Speaker 3: that job, and in style, I learned how to fact

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Speaker 3: check and copy of it, and I worked on the

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Speaker 3: very glamorous table of contents and editor as letter pages.

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Speaker 3: And then I got a freelance editorial assistant job at Ladies'

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Speaker 3: Home Journal and more magazines so at their websites, and

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Speaker 3: that was great. I got really lucky because the senior

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Speaker 3: Fashion of Beauty editor was going on attorney leave just

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Speaker 3: like a month after I got there, and they couldn't

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Speaker 3: afford maternity cover for her, so I got to fill it.

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Speaker 2: And they paid you like a.

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Speaker 3: Freelance editorialists did. Yeah, And I did the signing and

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Speaker 3: the editing, and I learned how to do things that

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Speaker 3: were like well above my pay grade. But it was great,

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Speaker 3: and I actually I learned a lot of like hard

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Speaker 3: skills in that job, right. So when she came back,

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Speaker 3: they were like, all right, maybe you want to move on,

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Speaker 3: because like you have to go back to being an

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Speaker 3: EA now. So I did, and I moved on to

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Speaker 3: Harper's Bazaar, and I was there for a little over

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Speaker 3: three years, and you know, with the assistant to the

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Speaker 3: executive editor and the managing editor, and I was also

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Speaker 3: after a little while, the online editor there, which entailed

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Speaker 3: updating the website twice a month.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 3: This isn't a time where I think, you know, front

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Speaker 3: magazines were still very much like the web is going

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Speaker 3: to cannibalize newsstand sales. We are not interested in that.

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Speaker 3: So that was part, like that was my title, but

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Speaker 3: it wasn't really my whole job. It was just a

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Speaker 3: thing that I did. And I would, you know, rework

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Speaker 3: some of the stories from the book and grab some

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Speaker 3: images and very occasionally create something original, put it on

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Speaker 3: a CD ROM and try to the fourteenth floor, or

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Speaker 3: someone would hardcode it on the website twice a month.

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Speaker 3: So that was what that job was.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's funny to point out, and if

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Speaker 1: you didn't pick up on this, it's like some of

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Speaker 1: the top websites. The amount that they published is absolutely insane.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what was six years ago now. I remember

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Speaker 1: at my first job, I was at a company called

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Speaker 1: Cafe Mom and they were publishing seventy to eighty times

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Speaker 1: daily on their blog. And at that time that was

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Speaker 1: like astronomical, like they were ahead of their time. And now,

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Speaker 1: I mean seventy to eighty times for some sites is

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Speaker 1: an absolute joke. I mean, that's nothing comparatively to someone

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Speaker 1: like say Bustle.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they're making so much content every day, so

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Speaker 3: much content. So Bizarre was not doing that at the time.

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Speaker 3: I'm probably still not today, But that was that job,

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Speaker 3: and I mean that was a job where I learned

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Speaker 3: from some of the best editors in the industry. Laura

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Speaker 3: Brown was an editor there at the time, Christina O'Neil

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Speaker 3: who's now a WSJ magazine, Sarah Bailey who moved back

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Speaker 3: to the UK, and these were women who I learned

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Speaker 3: a lot from and just really understood how they managed writers,

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Speaker 3: how they thought about stories, how they thought about like

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Speaker 3: big blue sky ideas and ran at aitorial meetings and

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Speaker 3: those were amazing things to learn. And Bizarre is also

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Speaker 3: the place where I built a real work ethic, you know,

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Speaker 3: where like you understand that no matter how big or

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Speaker 3: small a project is, you get it done, and you

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Speaker 3: get it done now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So that was great. And a couple of years after,

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Speaker 3: one of my bosses moved over to seventeen and it

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Speaker 3: was like, you should come here. We like, you can

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Speaker 3: have your own section, Like, you can have your own pages.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I can be a real editor exactly, that's

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Speaker 1: really what's happened here.

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Speaker 3: Exactly. I can have bolines every month, not just one's

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Speaker 3: every blue moon. So that was really exciting. And I

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Speaker 3: moved over to seventeen and I was the associate lifestyle

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Speaker 3: editor there. I did that job for a while, I

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Speaker 3: took on the entertainment pages, and then eventually moved on

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Speaker 3: to run the website there, which was all amazing. And

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Speaker 3: at seventeen, I learned how to produce a print book.

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Speaker 3: I understood like how to actually from inception to execution,

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Speaker 3: produce pages and think about ideas and sections and packages.

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Speaker 3: And I learned how to, you know, interview celebrities. I

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Speaker 3: produced my first cover story there and Victoria Justice. You're like,

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Speaker 3: come on, yeah, Victoria Justice, who Ariana Grande was like

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Speaker 3: the number two on her like Nickelodeon show. At the time,

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Speaker 3: it's so funny, like you see all these kids like

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Speaker 3: come through when you work at a place like seventeen,

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Speaker 3: and now they're like pop your superstars. It's funny to

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Speaker 3: think about them then. But yeah, So that was the

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Speaker 3: job at seventeen and I was there for a little

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Speaker 3: over four years. And after that I moved to a

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Speaker 3: refinery twenty nine when they were still really small. They

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Speaker 3: were about thirty five people, and I joined the company

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Speaker 3: as the deputy editor, and I was working under the

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Speaker 3: editor in chief, Christine Barbaric, who I consider like an

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Speaker 3: amazing mentor and sort of a friend today, but I

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Speaker 3: was definitely very intimidated by her when I like cold

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Speaker 3: emailed her. The company was honestly so small at the

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Speaker 3: time that the job listing was like listed on like

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Speaker 3: the front plate page of the blog with like her

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Speaker 3: personal or her like work email directly listed. So I

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Speaker 3: emailed her and was like, here is why you should

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Speaker 3: hire me.

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Speaker 2: And what was the name of the job description? Deputy editor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so she emailed me next day and I eventually

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Speaker 3: got the job after a hand of different interviews, and

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Speaker 3: I went in there and I was there for six years.

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Speaker 3: So Refinery was a place where I learned how to

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Speaker 3: innovate and strategize and wear a bunch of different hats

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Speaker 3: and really build something because all my experience up until

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Speaker 3: that point had been at really established brands, and so

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Speaker 3: Refinery was a place where I got to build alongside

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Speaker 3: the founders and you know, grow and hire a really

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Speaker 3: small team into a really big team, which was really fun.

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Speaker 1: And you totally got to you know, hone in on

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Speaker 1: probably your managerial styles as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a place where I had the luxury

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Speaker 3: of learning, Okay, this is what a manager looks like

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Speaker 3: in my head based on some version of stereotypes that

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Speaker 3: I've seen or things that I've been told or people

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Speaker 3: that have led teams that I've been on. But maybe

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Speaker 3: that's actually not my management style. And it took me

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Speaker 3: a while to grow into what I ended up figuring out. Okay,

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Speaker 3: Like the way that I lead is not through feet,

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Speaker 3: not through you know, I have a quieter voice. I

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Speaker 3: naturally am interested in people's feelings and sort of what

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Speaker 3: makes them tick and why they do the kind of

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Speaker 3: work they do. And I realized in that experience in

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Speaker 3: building that team that those were actually my own strengths,

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Speaker 3: those were my superhero strengths even, right, and those are

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Speaker 3: things that were going to make me a better leader

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Speaker 3: if I was able to listen to people and really

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Speaker 3: understand how what drove them to do their best work

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Speaker 3: and they felt supported by me and they felt like

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Speaker 3: I was on their side, not just that they felt

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Speaker 3: like I was on their side, but I was actually

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Speaker 3: on their side and right doing good work together. And

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Speaker 3: so that was all amazing. And it was you know,

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Speaker 3: trial by fire.

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Speaker 1: Did you feel when you were at refinery that it

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Speaker 1: was hard to always be that like empathetic on your

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Speaker 1: side leader when you had certain goals and content margins

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Speaker 1: and all these things that were also kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: on the other side of your brain.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was That was something that it took me

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Speaker 3: a minute to figure out. And I think there are

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Speaker 3: probably people that I managed earlier on in my time

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Speaker 3: there that didn't get the best version of me. And

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Speaker 3: I think that there are lessons that you just have

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Speaker 3: to learn by doing it wrong sometimes. Yeah, because what

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Speaker 3: I learned by the end of it was be as

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Speaker 3: honest as you can, right, Like, if you can listen

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Speaker 3: and you can be empathetic and you can understand where

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Speaker 3: someone is coming from. You can get their side of

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Speaker 3: the story, but then go back to them with the

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Speaker 3: real truth. Right. It doesn't help you if you're asking

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Speaker 3: me for a raise or a promotion or whatever it is,

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Speaker 3: or you know, more headcount for your team, And I'm thinking, well,

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Speaker 3: that's a reasonable argument, but actually, like they're like, the

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Speaker 3: reality of my budget is X, and I can't give

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Speaker 3: you that. I can make something up and I can say, oh,

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Speaker 3: I think about it and come back to you and

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Speaker 3: not give you that, or I can say, hey, look,

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Speaker 3: this is where we are. This is a truth, but

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Speaker 3: like in six months, maybe we could be here. So like,

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Speaker 3: let's try to hit this target and do this thing

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Speaker 3: so that we have the means to provide the resources

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Speaker 3: that you need versus like shielding people from things that

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Speaker 3: I think I was more likely to shield people earlier

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Speaker 3: on rather than later, because I think people can take it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I think that's such a such an

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Speaker 1: important thing to learn, whether it's in business or whether

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Speaker 1: it's in life. Honestly, it's just this idea that failing

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Speaker 1: doesn't need to always be something that's a negative experience,

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Speaker 1: and it's actually a question that I love to ask

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Speaker 1: on this podcast, what is one of your favorite failures? Like,

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Speaker 1: do you look back on your career up to that

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Speaker 1: point anyway, and you can you identify a time where

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Speaker 1: you were like, man, I really felt like the world

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Speaker 1: was falling apart around me.

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Speaker 2: But that taught you so much?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think it's like, there are big

365
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Speaker 3: moments of failure where it is truly like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: it's all like a disaster. But I actually think sometimes

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Speaker 3: the biggest lessons come from the moments where it's it's

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Speaker 3: smaller things, right, Like I'm thinking about the time I

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Speaker 3: spent at Bizarre in seventeen, and there are moments where,

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Speaker 3: you know, my peers were moving into different jobs, they

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Speaker 3: were getting promoted, and I was like still an associate editor,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, am I stagnating? Am I stuck here?

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Speaker 3: Am I going to work here forever? And this was

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Speaker 3: you know, part of this was like in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and eight, when suddenly, like the economy looked very different

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Speaker 3: from what it had the year prior, and there was

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Speaker 3: a sense that we should all be grateful to be

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Speaker 3: in a job and not being laid off. So I

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Speaker 3: did that, and I think I had asked for promotions

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Speaker 3: and I'd asked for raises, but had been told like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we're on a hiring freeze, like we're not making these

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Speaker 3: shifts right now, like you just need to wait. And

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Speaker 3: I think part of me was after a little bit

384
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Speaker 3: of that, was like questioning myself and saying, is this

385
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Speaker 3: a failure not having progressed, not having advanced, having been

386
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Speaker 3: in the same job for this long, and sort of

387
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Speaker 3: just like not advocating for myself in a different way

388
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Speaker 3: where I saw that like other people were building brands

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Speaker 3: for themselves and doing things that felt like I felt

390
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Speaker 3: like I was falling behind. And I think that there

391
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Speaker 3: is something about that that feels profoundly like failing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: And I think that that's really hard and it's hard

394
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Speaker 3: to look back at it now because I can say, oh,

395
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Speaker 3: it all worked out. I feel really happy about where

396
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Speaker 3: I landed, So that's great, and my virtue of you know,

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Speaker 3: the resolution of the story, like I can feel great

398
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Speaker 3: about that. But there is another version of that where like,

399
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Speaker 3: I think it's not right to look at failure that

400
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,119
Speaker 3: the lens of what happens next. I think it's more

401
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 3: about what you learn. The real value of those moments

402
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Speaker 3: where things are hard and where you doubt yourself is

403
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 3: the ability to come to terms with yourself and to say, okay,

404
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Speaker 3: I really do myself. I don't feel like every decision

405
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Speaker 3: that I make is right, and I'm not positive about

406
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Speaker 3: what happens next, But to be able to steal yourself

407
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Speaker 3: and to say, Okay, I'm going to keep going and

408
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Speaker 3: I'm going to do some research. I'm going to do

409
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,439
Speaker 3: some diligence. I'm going to talk to a bunch of

410
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Speaker 3: people that you know, work in similar but different jobs,

411
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Speaker 3: and I'm gonna not work my way into a different role,

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Speaker 3: and maybe I'm going to think about like moving into

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Speaker 3: a different like space, right because I think that that's

414
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Speaker 3: the other thing. Like when I left first I went

415
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Speaker 3: to Refinery twin nine, which is now a huge thing,

416
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Speaker 3: But when I got there, you know, people were like,

417
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Speaker 3: why would you take that job? Like you have like

418
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 3: a short thing here, like you have like you're at

419
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Speaker 3: a place it's known, Like that seems like a really

420
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 3: like wild, weird thing to do. And I did it

421
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Speaker 3: specifically because I was like, look, I'm not going to

422
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Speaker 3: get a deputy editor job. Somewhere else. Right, this is

423
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 3: like a huge jump for me, and I knew that

424
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Speaker 3: like moving from print to digital was going to be

425
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Speaker 3: the way to do it for me, right right, And

426
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Speaker 3: so I think that was like a realization that I

427
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 3: came to through moments of doubting myself, and I think.

428
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Speaker 1: Everybody needs them, Like without these moments of self doubt,

429
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Speaker 1: Like if everything's just smooth sailing all the time, you're

430
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Speaker 1: not gonna have the opportunity to learn as much and

431
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Speaker 1: you might again like find these successes and I can

432
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Speaker 1: feel really rewarding, but without challenge, I feel like it's

433
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Speaker 1: just such a critical component to becoming a better version personally. Okay,

434
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Speaker 1: so you're at Refinery and this opportunity from girl Boss

435
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: kind of presents itself.

436
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I was at Refinery and I've been there

437
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Speaker 3: for six years. I was thinking about, like what's my

438
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 3: next step going to be? Media felt really hard, truthfully.

439
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, I think I'm going to like

440
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 3: look for like a transition out, Like do I want

441
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 3: to like work in brand at like a bigger like corporation.

442
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 3: Do I want to do something else? Like I just

443
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 3: don't know about this industry. We're not going to make it.

444
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel that way all the time.

445
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 3: So I was like really looking at other options, and

446
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 3: I was like, maybe I'm in a consult like, but

447
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 3: I knew that like sort of I wanted to go

448
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 3: experience something else. And fortunately, at exactly that time, I

449
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 3: met Sophia who this was last January, who was like,

450
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 3: let's just talk about this thing that I'm building. And

451
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 3: I was like, sure, why not, Like we'll see, And

452
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 3: so I met with her at the Addition in New

453
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 3: York and we had, like WERI spposed to have drinks

454
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 3: for like thirty minutes, We ended up you know, chatting

455
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 3: for like two and a half hours, and she told

456
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 3: me all about her vision for girl Boss and what

457
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 3: it could be and what the community already was, and

458
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 3: like what she felt like we could build here that

459
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 3: felt like some hybrid of what we had already learned

460
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 3: from media, but also something entirely different, something that was

461
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 3: really connected to this woman and to this audience in

462
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: community that's out there sort of building girl Boss. You know,

463
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 3: like there were three million instances of girl Boss a

464
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: year and a half maybe two years ago, there's eleven

465
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 3: point five million now. It's so wild to me how

466
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 3: it like sort of like grows like wildfire.

467
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: But and when you say instances, what do you mean?

468
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 3: I mean people have used the hashtag girl boss that

469
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 3: sometimes on Instagram. Yeah, and it's that to me is

470
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 3: not a testament even to what we're doing. I think

471
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 3: what our opportunity is to meet them there and to

472
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 3: harness what they're doing. Right, Like, these are women who

473
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 3: are using the term girl boss and saying I own this.

474
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 3: This is something that I can use and say about

475
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 3: myself to that makes me feel proud. This is something

476
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 3: that I can sort of use to talk about someone

477
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 3: else in my life that feels celebratory. And I think

478
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 3: that's incredible that that resonates with so many people. That's

479
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 3: a powerful thing. And the opportunity is to say, how

480
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 3: do we meet those women where they are? How do

481
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 3: we give than something that helps in advance, something that

482
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 3: takes that feeling and makes it into something tangible.

483
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: Right, right, And so when you have this conversation with her,

484
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: how soon does the conversation over maybe a few cocktails

485
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: in New York City turn into an actual conversation about

486
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: you coming on board the team and then soon enough

487
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 1: a job offer.

488
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 3: So that first conversation, you know, was about this is

489
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 3: what the job could be, and we talked about it

490
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 3: for that was in January. We talked about it for

491
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 3: a little over three months. I came out here, I

492
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 3: met the team, We spoke in the phone a handful

493
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 3: of times, like we were both doing our own diligence.

494
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 3: It's a big move to leave a job to come

495
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 3: join a startup. I think, you know, the advice I

496
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 3: have always heard that I think is so true is

497
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 3: a job at a startup, you can do any amount

498
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 3: of diligence want to, but ultimately you're placing a bet

499
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 3: on a founder. So how much can you get to

500
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 3: know that person and figure out whether you trust the

501
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: work that they're going to do, and whether you feel

502
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 3: you can be compliments to each other and work together

503
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 3: in a way that's productive for both of you. So

504
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: I think that's what we're probably both trying to feel out,

505
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 3: and we took our time in that and officially I

506
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 3: came on board, you know, I officially accepted probably in April,

507
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: and came on board at the beginning of July.

508
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: Quick break from today's episode to give the sponsor Athletic

509
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510
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512
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513
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516
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517
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518
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525
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Speaker 1: I'm back here with Neha Gandhi. She's the editor in

526
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: chief and COO of Girl Boss. Okay, and so accept it.

527
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: In April, you did the work from home thing. You're

528
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: in New York and then you get up and move

529
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: to LA And that's when I would say, effectively one

530
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: of these hurdle moments happened junior career. Completely relocating is

531
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: something that frightens me to no end. I feel like

532
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: I maybe I haven't stumbled upon the right opportunity that

533
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: was worth relocating for. And I'm sure you could probably

534
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: speak to that as well. But this idea of being

535
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: a woman in her early thirties, picking up, starting a

536
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: new city, finding new friends, like I'm sure these were

537
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: all things that you were thinking about coming here to

538
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: Los Angeles.

539
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 3: Well, we made the decision to move. We have we

540
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: have like a chalkboard wall in our apartment in Brooklyn.

541
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 2: You love with their husband?

542
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love my husband. And for four months it

543
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 3: was you know, filled with pros and cons of you know,

544
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 3: la versus New York, and it had things that were

545
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: very real on the wall and also things that were like,

546
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 3: am I going to lose my edge if I leave

547
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 3: New York?

548
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 2: Your edge?

549
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 3: My edge? Because I mean, look at me, stop so

550
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 3: ed so much edge, so much edge. But that was like,

551
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 3: those were considerations, and I think at the end of

552
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 3: it it fell like an opportunity worth taking a flyer on,

553
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 3: partially because there just aren't that many jobs in media

554
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 3: whereas there's a really strong brand that's already built, where

555
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 3: all the opportunity is there. The thing that's hardest is

556
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 3: to build a brand, and with Girl Boss, it was

557
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 3: already there, and I felt so excited to take the

558
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 3: leap and build strategy around it and to build a

559
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 3: business around it in partnership with Sophia and our president Ali,

560
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: and that was all really exciting to me. So it

561
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 3: really felt like a potential once in a lifetime opportunity.

562
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 3: But the other part was that we were at the

563
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 3: right place in our lives, me and our husband to say, okay,

564
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: we could move. But we also looked at each other

565
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 3: and said, also, don't we want to be the kind

566
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 3: of people who can pick up and move across the country.

567
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 3: Don't we want to be the kind of people who

568
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 3: can take a leap and have an adventure and not

569
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: always be so one thing. And I think the answer

570
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 3: for both of us was yeah, yes. But at the

571
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 3: same time, I think it's easy to get wrapped up

572
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: in sort of how amazing it's going to be, and

573
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 3: that like magic and excitement and do it and then

574
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 3: logistics and then you're doing it and you're moving, and

575
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 3: it's all amazing, and then you arrive And I got

576
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 3: here in September with a couple of suitcases, and the

577
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 3: moving vans were coming later, which is something I didn't realize.

578
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 3: You know, you're moving vans leave and then they drive

579
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 3: across the country, but not immediately, so our stuff actually

580
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 3: didn't arrive until like eight weeks after it left. It

581
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 3: was literally the last day that they were still like

582
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 3: not in breach of contract. So there was that. But

583
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 3: I arrive at this place in LA and I have

584
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 3: a hard time opening the door and it's one hundred

585
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 3: and five degrees and my husband's not with me, and

586
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 3: there was this sense of just like oh my gosh,

587
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 3: like what's what did I sign up for? I can't

588
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: even open the door to his house. I can't get

589
00:30:58,360 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 3: a hold of the real estate agent, like what's going

590
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 3: to happen? But obviously I got inside. I turned on

591
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 3: the air conditioning, which we're very fortunate to have in LA,

592
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: and I you know, sat like on a towel in

593
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 3: an empty house and was like, okay, cool, I'm here.

594
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 3: And that was the beginning. But it's I think what

595
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 3: I discounted all those times that I maybe was visiting

596
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 3: Lan and it was like, it's so magical here. I'm

597
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: going to have such an amazing life. I'm going to

598
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 3: go to the farmer's market every weekend. I'm going to

599
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 3: make dinner for myself. I'm going to find more balance.

600
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 3: I'm going to work less. I'm gonna take these day

601
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 3: trips and become a person who hikes and all of

602
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 3: these other things. I think some of those things have done.

603
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 3: I haven't done any hiking yet, but.

604
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: You've been here for nine months. I know.

605
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to make it your personal mission over the

606
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: next month of time to go hiking and let me

607
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: know how it is. This is your action item. You

608
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: have thirty day to go on a hike. All right,

609
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: makes the time deal. Okay, so you're you haven't been hiking, but.

610
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: But I have done some really cool stuff and it's

611
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: been like some of it has been so amazing. I

612
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 3: think you know, there is something really special about the

613
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 3: quality of light that streams in your door or through

614
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 3: windows in LA that just is different, and that's amazing.

615
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 3: I wake up earlier now that I live in LA

616
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: because partially I just like never totally got off of

617
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 3: the East Coast time. It's never a morning person before though,

618
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 3: and now I go to bed at ten thirty and

619
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: I wake up between five thirty and six, and I

620
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 3: can work out in the morning, and when it's not

621
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 3: one hundred and three degrees outside, I can usually do

622
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 3: that outside, which is really nice.

623
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: And you said, like leaning into working out and maybe

624
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: even meditation and mindfulness a little bit really helped you

625
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: get over this hurdle of being into a totally new city.

626
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it did, because I think that those are the

627
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 3: things that feel so like forcefully positive. And they also

628
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 3: let me carve out time and space for myself, and

629
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 3: they helped me be less reactive. They let me be

630
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 3: more intentional, and they let me think through my feelings

631
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 3: and my reactions in a way that's just healthier because

632
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 3: I think on the flip side, like, yes, I was

633
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 3: working out, I was meditating, I was really enjoying my

634
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 3: mornings and like my morning coffee routine, and all those

635
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 3: things were all of the things that I thought they

636
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: were going to be. But at the same time, moving

637
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 3: to a new city is lonely, and I didn't properly

638
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: I didn't properly credit that when I thought about what

639
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 3: it was going to be like when I loved here.

640
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 3: I really believed that, you know, within the first six

641
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 3: months I would have a community here, I would have

642
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 3: something that felt really similar to what I had back home.

643
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 3: And I think it just doesn't happen that fast. I

644
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 3: also think it's just harder to make friends in your thirties.

645
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: It's harder to make friends when you're married. There is

646
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 3: something that's just like a little bit different when you're

647
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 3: not dating, Like there is just something that's there. The

648
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 3: impetus to go out and meet people, I think is

649
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 3: a little.

650
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: Bit less, And I think it's so interesting to bring

651
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: this up. It's been a conversation that I've been having

652
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: a lot with friends of mine and girlfriends and guys

653
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: and all the people that it doesn't matter if you

654
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: are single and thirty and live in a fourth floor

655
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: walk up in New York City, or if you're married

656
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: and you have a full time job. Everyone at different points,

657
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: at one point or another, feels lonely. And I think

658
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: it's something that we don't openly talk about a lot

659
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: because it's almost like, especially in this age of social media,

660
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: you feel like like you shouldn't feel this way, Like

661
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: you have the opportunity to be constantly stimulated. You could

662
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: reach out at any given time using a hashtag. You

663
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: said eleven million plus instances of girl boss, Like there's

664
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: are eleven million people that are talking about what you're

665
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: talking about. But still sometimes you go home at the

666
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: end of the day and you sit down and you

667
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: put your phone down and you're like, man, I feel

668
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: really lonely.

669
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that there is taboo or there's

670
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 3: shame sometimes attached to that because it's almost I mean,

671
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 3: there's something that like connects back to that old adage

672
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 3: of you know, only boring people get bored. Being lonely

673
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 3: is not being bored. But I think, at least for me,

674
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 3: like I those two occupy the same space in my brain,

675
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 3: and there is something that my default assumption is like

676
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 3: if I'm lonely, then I'm not trying hard enough, which

677
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 3: isn't entirely fair. Maybe it's not.

678
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 2: Fair at all. I think it's because we're hard on ourselves.

679
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: We're so hard on ourselves, and I mean especially I

680
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: mean in this era of girl Bossom, for me being

681
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur, it's like, if you're lonely, like, shouldn't you

682
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: be doing something else with your time to overcompensate or

683
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: compensate for this fact that, like you feel alone, Like

684
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: instead of focusing on the fact that you feel alone,

685
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: maybe you should be editing another podcast, you should be

686
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: pitching another outlet, you should be coming up with the

687
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: next great cover story, like all of these things that

688
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 1: you feel like what I'm doing isn't enough, But it's

689
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: also equally as important to realize that and instead of

690
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: defaulting to this like constant grind culture, taking a second

691
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: to accept that which is difficult and then do something

692
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: about it.

693
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 3: Right, or don't even do something about it right. I

694
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 3: think that there is something really powerful about leaning into

695
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 3: those moments where you feel alone and thinking about, you know,

696
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 3: what does that mean, and just being a little bit

697
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 3: more reflective because my instinct is I'm always a problem solver.

698
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 3: So if I feel alone or I feel something that,

699
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 3: like I believe is negative, then my instinct is like,

700
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 3: how can I solve this? How can I get past this?

701
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 3: How can I you know, make a new friend, do whatever,

702
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 3: like host an event, like go to a party. But

703
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 3: sometimes the answer is and it goes back to what

704
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 3: I was talking about, like those moments where you feel

705
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 3: like you're failing, like The real value is not how

706
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 3: you get through it, which certainly is also valuable, but

707
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 3: the real value is like how do you experience it?

708
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 3: How do you learn something about yourself through that? Yeah,

709
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 3: and that's really hard to do.

710
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, So how did you kind of after having this

711
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: understanding and like kind of taking a moment to sit

712
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: with yourself and be like, yeah, I'm a little lonely,

713
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: what did you really do? Do you think that helped

714
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: you kind of process that a little bit more.

715
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 3: I So there are a couple of things. I think

716
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 3: I have started to meet some people, but I think

717
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 3: I stopped putting so much pressure on myself to say

718
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 3: yes to every invitation. You know, when I first got here,

719
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 3: I was attending a lot of things that like I'm

720
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 3: probably never going to enjoy, but I was like, got

721
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 3: to say yes to everything, have to show up and like,

722
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 3: you know, meet as many people as possible. And I

723
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 3: think that's valuable in some ways, but in other like

724
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 3: it's a certain point like you're just pushing yourself to

725
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 3: do something that you know you're not going to enjoy. Yeah.

726
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 3: So I think giving myself permission to say no, right

727
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 3: just because you don't have a ton of friends. Doesn't

728
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 3: mean that you have to perpetually live outside of your

729
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 3: comfort zone. Sometimes you can just hang out at home

730
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 3: because that's what you want to do, right, So that's

731
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 3: been great. I think that you know, the stuff that

732
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 3: we were talking about before, like just getting a little

733
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 3: bit in touch with my body meditating.

734
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 2: Can I ask you how do you meditate?

735
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: You like? I like guided meditations, although I did just

736
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 3: discover the other day that Alexa, like I was sending

737
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 3: a timer and she's like, I can set a fifteen

738
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 3: minute meditation with rainfall for you, And I was like, oh,

739
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 3: that's interesting, So I'm going to try that. But I

740
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 3: actually do like there's like a series of free guided

741
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 3: meditations on UCLA's website that are amazing. It's the right

742
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 3: sort of pace of like there's nothing too cheesy there, right,

743
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 3: there's nothing like too disruptive because I like goodded meditation

744
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: because I don't want to be left completely alone to

745
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 3: wander into my own I'm so scared, so scared it

746
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 3: just like I start to do listing when I'm like

747
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 3: completely by myself, so I need someone to be like, no, no,

748
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 3: you're doing this right now.

749
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 2: But this is just making me reflect. I wrote a story.

750
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 1: I wrote a story a few months back about trying

751
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: to execute the perfect morning as we see on Instagram.

752
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: So it's like you see these influences and they're having

753
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: a macha and they're meditating, and they're face masking, and

754
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: they've somehow like done a twelve minute crunch workout while

755
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: also simultaneously putting on the perfect outfit, and like their

756
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: mirror selfie looks better than any mirror selfie I've ever taken.

757
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 2: And I was just very confused.

758
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: So I was like, I'm going to try this, and

759
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: I tried it. And I remember distinctly one morning while

760
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: listening to a Headspace meditation and I love Headspace, I

761
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: use it pretty religiously. I'm listening to a Headspace meditation

762
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: and I'm also simultaneously washing my face, and I'm like,

763
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: this is just not the point. Like I was just

764
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: doing the meditation quote unquote, doing to check it off

765
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: the morning to do list, and I was like, I

766
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: am not meant for this life all the time.

767
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 3: You know.

768
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: When I do like to meditate, though, I actually love

769
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: to meditate at like four in the afternoon. I like

770
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: it at that time because I feel like generally that's

771
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: when I need a break. So what I'll do is

772
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: I'll like make some tea, especially if I'm at a

773
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: we work space. I work out of a WEE workspace

774
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: a lot, and I'll make some tea and I'll go

775
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: and sit in one of the phone booths and I'll

776
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: do like a five to ten minute and then I'll

777
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: get up and I'll be like, all right, hour and

778
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: a half left in the gate, let's get this done.

779
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 2: That's it.

780
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 3: I love that. I actually think that there is value

781
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 3: to doing it twice in a day. Yeah, I do

782
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 3: think I need it in the morning because I still

783
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 3: have some bad habits that I haven't broken. I try

784
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 3: to sleep with my phone on airplane mode. I do

785
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 3: it sometimes. I don't do it other time times because

786
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 3: my instinct is like so strong to describe the phone

787
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 3: and first thing in the morning and like you know,

788
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 3: not just email, but also like Twitter and like oh,

789
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 3: like now I'm like reading the news, and it's like

790
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 3: I think it's important to read the news in the morning.

791
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 3: I like to be just like a little bit more

792
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 3: focused in like the channels I get it from. I

793
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 3: don't want to get my news from Twitter. If the

794
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 3: news right it's the like outrage or like it's like

795
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 3: a reaction rather.

796
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: Than a fact. Where do you go for your news?

797
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 3: I at the New York Times. I like, I like,

798
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 3: I like the reporting. I think it's I get everything

799
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 3: that I need there. I really like the daily and

800
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 3: it feels like, oh, one stop shop where I can

801
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 3: feel informed about the facts, which is important.

802
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: I'm an up first kind of girl too. All podcasts.

803
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: By the way, we're podcast wrapping here. You've obviously had

804
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 1: your fair share of time at some really impressive brands.

805
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: What would you say is some of the best advice

806
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: that you have been given in your career.

807
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 3: I think some of the best advice has been well.

808
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 3: I had one boss who was like, you should always

809
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 3: be looking. I was like, what are you talking about.

810
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 3: It's like you should take every single interview that comes

811
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 3: your way. And that was at a time where I

812
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 3: was like, oh, like, you only go on job interviews

813
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,919
Speaker 3: when you're actively searching for a job. So I think

814
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 3: I still don't go on every job interview that comes

815
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 3: my way. That would feel like a full time job

816
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 3: in and of itself. But I think it showed me that, like,

817
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 3: you have to be thinking a little bit more holistically

818
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 3: about your career rather than just the job you're doing today,

819
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 3: which was really meaningful. Something else that I've had a

820
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 3: boss tell me is, you know, you don't it's never

821
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 3: going to be enough just to put your head down and.

822
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: Work really hard.

823
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 3: And I really didn't know that, like when I first

824
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: started working and I started my first job, really believe

825
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 3: that if I, you know, I'd always been an overachiever.

826
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 3: I'd always been like, probably to my detriment, like a

827
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,959
Speaker 3: little bit like obsessed with grades, like like immigrant parents

828
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 3: who like put a lot of value on numbers and

829
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 3: grades and sort of like class rankings, and so that

830
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 3: all of those things are about how hard did you

831
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 3: work and what did you get done. I didn't think

832
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 3: that there was another element to it beyond that. So

833
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 3: I showed up at my first job and I was like, Okay, great,

834
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 3: I'm gonna like work really hard and get these things done,

835
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna stay late and I'm gonna be first in.

836
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 3: And I think that those things all have value, and

837
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 3: work ethic means something it did then it does now

838
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 3: I think it always will. But it's not enough. You

839
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 3: have to also be broadcasting the value of yourself and

840
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 3: you have to be willing to have like really clear

841
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 3: conversations that I think instinctively when I started out, felt

842
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 3: like really uncomfortable this idea of promoting yourself and saying,

843
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 3: you know, here's my value. Here is why not just

844
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: I'm looking for a promotion because it's been eighteen months.

845
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 3: I'm looking for a promotion because I have done X,

846
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 3: Y and Z things, And this is the value I

847
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 3: add to this business. And this is what I foresee

848
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 3: myself being able to do in a new role, or

849
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 3: in a promotion or with this raise, And this is

850
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 3: the additional value I'm going to add. And I'm the

851
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 3: only person who can do this as well as I

852
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:32,479
Speaker 3: do or whatever that is. Like that ability to really

853
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 3: articulate your own value to a business was really foreign

854
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 3: to me. But even more importantly, and this is the

855
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 3: advice that I actually give everyone who reports to me

856
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 3: or doesn't and just happens by unsuspectingly. But beyond just

857
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 3: doing your job and talking about how great job you're

858
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 3: doing at it, look around, and especially in a startup,

859
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 3: especially if you know you work in a place that's

860
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 3: relatively small, where people don't do hype or specialized work.

861
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 3: Look at the goals of the business, look at what's

862
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 3: getting done, and then look at the gaps and raise

863
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 3: your hand. Obviously not at the not to the detriment

864
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 3: of your own job. You have to show up and

865
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 3: you have to do the job that you're there to

866
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 3: do to the best of your ability to one hundred

867
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 3: and some percent every day. But there's usually time to say, Okay,

868
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 3: I also see there's an opportunity here, and there's a

869
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 3: business need and I can contribute, and I have an idea,

870
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 3: and can I take that on and can I solve

871
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 3: this problem? Those are always the people that I have

872
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 3: been most excited to promote, because they are people that

873
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, not only are you just already doing

874
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 3: the job that you're asking for, but we're actually doing

875
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 3: something else. You're showing up in a way every day

876
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 3: where even to tell me how you add value to

877
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 3: the business, like I see it constantly, and I think

878
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 3: that that is really special and it's actually surprisingly rare

879
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,240
Speaker 3: to see people who do that well.

880
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,479
Speaker 1: I was saying to someone earlier today that I feel

881
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: like there's so much value at some point in your

882
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,839
Speaker 1: life and having to be your own boss and being

883
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur whether or not you choose to go freelance

884
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 1: or it's just kind of thrust upon you in my

885
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: case the beautiful aspects of publishing. But what I will

886
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: say is is being an entrepreneur, you don't have the

887
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: opportunity to phone it in. I you know, throughout the

888
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: past year, throughout the past few years, have definitely had

889
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: my fair share of difficult times with some different personal stuff.

890
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 1: And I think that on those days where all you

891
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,479
Speaker 1: want to do is like be in your own bed

892
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: and call your mom and have her like go to

893
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: target with you, which is a very real thing in

894
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: my life, I had to understand and come to terms

895
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: with the fact that, like, yeah, you deserve to have

896
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: that time for yourself, but you also need to put

897
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: your head down and do the work sometimes. And so

898
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: to not be able to phone it in and like

899
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: really realize, like what it takes to show up for

900
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: yourself every day is so special, and to then and

901
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 1: do that when you have someone that's giving you a

902
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: steady paycheck and do it anyway, Like there's no bigger

903
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: value to a team than someone that's willing to truly

904
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: show up every single day and put their best foot forward.

905
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: Not because they feel like they have to, but because

906
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: they feel like they want to. And that's a sign

907
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: of a good job, right, Like, I'm sure when you

908
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: got into some of these jobs later on your career

909
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 1: and you felt like you had such a great value

910
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: to bring to the team, that you showed up in

911
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: probably a different way than maybe maybe back in the

912
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: day at you know, more being an assistant or an

913
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: editorial assistant.

914
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 3: There definitely, and I think that it's easier later on

915
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 3: in your career because you just naturally have a little

916
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 3: bit more room when people trust that, you know, if

917
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 3: you say you can take on X thing, they're like, oh, well,

918
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,720
Speaker 3: you're a little bit more senior shore go ahead, versus

919
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 3: like I just I'm fresh out at school, Like I

920
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 3: would love to take on this challenge job.

921
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: Like I'm gonna read the cover stories.

922
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 3: I got it. But I think that that's the thing, right, Like,

923
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 3: it's not just I want to do more, it's there's

924
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 3: something that's not being done, there's a gap here. I've

925
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 3: identified it, and I think I can contribute. And I

926
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 3: think that that's something that anyone can do if you're

927
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 3: thoughtful about it. So I do think that that's really

928
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 3: powerful and I also think that that's how you build

929
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 3: great teams.

930
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 2: Right.

931
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 3: It's not enough to have just one person on your

932
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 3: team who works that way, who really is motivated and

933
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 3: is there to do great work, because you always hear

934
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 3: you know, people are great teams are motivated certainly by compensation,

935
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 3: and there are like certain basic things, but it's really

936
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 3: about like what's the value of my work? What kind

937
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 3: of freedom do I have to do something that feels

938
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 3: significant and meaningful, and like how much do people respect me?

939
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 2: Right?

940
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 3: So, if you can create an environment where the default

941
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 3: is respect and the opportunity is there for people to

942
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 3: raise their hand and do that, then if you hire

943
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 3: great people, then you can have a great team that

944
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 3: actually everyone's working in that way and holistically they're pushing

945
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,879
Speaker 3: the ball forward even if you.

946
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 2: Know it's not in their zone totally.

947
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,399
Speaker 1: And I sat down with Fred Santarpia, he's the chief

948
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: Digital officer at Conde Nast, and we sat down it

949
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: feels like ages ago. Back in December of last year,

950
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: he was the third episode of Hurdle and in that

951
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: episode he talks about that one of his favorite things

952
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: to do as a leader is to hire people that

953
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: he thinks are better than him, and like this idea

954
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 1: that like they're the best that they do it should

955
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: probably intimidate you a little bit. And that means that

956
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 1: they're going to bring like this unrivaled value to your team.

957
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: And I think that's such smart advice, and that's like

958
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: the kind of advice that gets people like Fred, like

959
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 1: you to where they.

960
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 2: Are right now in their career.

961
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: What I'd love to ask you is if you have

962
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: like one or two books that you love to give people.

963
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,720
Speaker 3: One book that I love to give people is Susan

964
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 3: Orleans The b Fighter Chextter Makeup. It's a compilation of

965
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 3: her essays, I think, all from the New Yorker. It

966
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 3: has a personal sort of nostalgic value to me just

967
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 3: because I had a writing professor in school. Once we

968
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 3: gave it to me and like we were having like

969
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 3: a real conversation about how do you find your own voice?

970
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 3: And he gave me a couple of different books that

971
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 3: were like, look like listen, like read these people, like

972
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 3: listen to their voices as you're reading and really think

973
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 3: about how they've owned what voice means. And that was

974
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 3: a really powerful tool for me, and so I give

975
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 3: that Susan Orlayne book to a lot of young writers

976
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 3: that sort of come across my desk, whether that's you know,

977
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 3: people who have worked for me or people who just

978
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 3: are looking for mentorship or whatever it is.

979
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 2: I have a follow up question for you.

980
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: If you had to describe your voice now, how would

981
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: you describe it?

982
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a great question, man.

983
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 2: I love hearing that, you know.

984
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 3: I think my voice probably is. I hope it's clear

985
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 3: and concise and direct, because that's just the table steaks

986
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 3: for good writing. I think it's probably a little bit earnest,

987
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 3: but with a touch of humor. I try really hard

988
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: not to take myself and the work too seriously, but

989
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 3: I also tend to write about things that I feel

990
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 3: really sort of passionate and earnest about, and I think

991
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 3: that I'm always trying to strike that balance of like,

992
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 3: how do you not get too preachy about this thing

993
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 3: that feels really serious? Yeah, And so that's usually where

994
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 3: my voice sits.

995
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: When you look back on two different instances on your life.

996
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: First instance, when you are young and just starting out

997
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: in your career and you got that call which was

998
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: like can you be there on Monday?

999
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 2: And then me be in.

1000
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: This transitional period of your life when you are moving

1001
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: to Los Angeles and uprooting everything you know. In these

1002
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: hurdle moments that you've had, what do you think would

1003
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: be a pretty resounding piece of advice that you would

1004
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: offer to yourself at these times of adversity.

1005
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 3: I think the best advice I probably could have given

1006
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 3: myself in those moments is to really experience it. When

1007
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,240
Speaker 3: things feel really hard, don't shut down, don't start making lists,

1008
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 3: I mean short, make lists like that's obviously like how

1009
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 3: I cope, But take a minute from the list making

1010
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,919
Speaker 3: and just experience it. Really think about why things are hard,

1011
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 3: what's challenging, like, what is like, what are you actually experiencing?

1012
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 3: Because I do think that those are the moments where

1013
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 3: once you're through it, if you're through it, you learn

1014
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 3: something about yourself, what you're made of, and what motivates you,

1015
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,479
Speaker 3: makes you tick, and who you are. And if you're

1016
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 3: not sort of really focusing on yourself and thinking about

1017
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 3: what you're learning, not necessarily even focused on what you're learning,

1018
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 3: but like what you're experiencing and what you're feeling, you're

1019
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 3: not going to get those takeaways. And I think that

1020
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 3: those are the most powerful lessons life has to teach us.

1021
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: Naha.

1022
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: I'm so happy we had the opportunity to sit down today.

1023
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I think we're good, amazing. Thank you.

1024
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: Please take a moment to leave a quick review by

1025
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: clicking the link with the description to this episode. We

1026
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: all face multiple hurdles in life. I want to hear

1027
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 1: about yours. Reach out to me at Emily at Hurdle

1028
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: dot us. Connect with the podcast on Instagram and Twitter

1029
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: at Hurdle Podcast.

1030
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 2: Neaha. Where do they find you?

1031
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 3: They can find me on girlbass dot com, certainly on

1032
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 3: Instagram Neha in town stolen from ernest Intown and Bunbury

1033
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 3: in the city and same on Twitter.

1034
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: Awesome, I'm at Emily Abodi. Another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys,

1035
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 1: next time to the t