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Speaker 1: Media. Okay, story time, I actually knew Doug Wilson, one

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Speaker 1: of the Hubbies, moved out there to be a part

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Speaker 1: of the whole joint, and he's guta moved out there

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Speaker 1: be still friend. But listen, I was unaware of the

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Speaker 1: extent for which this man was saying exactly what he meant. Okay,

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Speaker 1: my antenna's failed me fifteen years ago, all right, that

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Speaker 1: being with me? Did I ever tell y'all my Bill

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Speaker 1: Gates story? I stood that, nigga long story, short story

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Speaker 1: story long. I went to this event for the Gates

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Speaker 1: Foundation that I had no idea that the name Gates

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Speaker 1: Foundation and Bill and Melinda Gates were distant planets. I

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Speaker 1: had no idea they were the same thing. So get invited.

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Speaker 1: I get a call or a text a few days

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Speaker 1: later from apparently Bill and Melinda's assistant that was saying

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Speaker 1: they were so impressed with me and wanted to meet me,

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Speaker 1: and they was going to send a fight for me

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Speaker 1: for dinner. Now I'm sitting in front of my daughter's

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Speaker 1: ballet class like waiting for her to finish her little

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Speaker 1: dance practice. Ain't nowhere in the world. I'm finna pack

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Speaker 1: a bag, go to the Airport just to go to

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Speaker 1: dinner in Seattle, and even it's in being in Seattle,

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Speaker 1: I still haven't connected the dots that the Gates Foundation

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Speaker 1: is Bill and Melinda Gates. For some reason, the math

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Speaker 1: wasn't mathing, so I just don't respond. I'm like, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm not finna, just like I was like, all right, man,

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Speaker 1: I'll see what's up, and I just didn't reply. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't until many years later somebody went, yeah, Bill and

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Speaker 1: Melinda Gates as in Bill Gates Gates Foundation. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: so when he said he was going to send the flight,

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Speaker 1: he meant he was going to send like a plane,

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Speaker 1: like he was going to fly, like he was gonna

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Speaker 1: like literally fly me up. And then a couple of

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Speaker 1: years after that, maybe four years after that, I run

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Speaker 1: into the dude at the Moultloma Whiskey Library in Portland,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, yo, uh, remember you you called

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Speaker 1: me and asked me you had no idea who Bill

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Speaker 1: Gates was. I just I never they were onto differ

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Speaker 1: I would have never connected the dots. I was like,

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Speaker 1: what did y'all think when I did? He goes, we

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Speaker 1: just thought you was the coolest dude ever like this

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Speaker 1: use fool just used to stood up Bill Gates. I was, like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was unintentionally a revolutionary in that scenario.

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Speaker 1: The point I'm trying to say is sometimes as plugged

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Speaker 1: in and tapped in as I be, sometimes my antennas

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Speaker 1: failed me. I just don't be knowing. Now. Now some

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Speaker 1: of y'all may know my origin story as a Christian rapper.

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Speaker 1: Now when I say Christian rapper, I know y'all think

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Speaker 1: it's something that probably if you don't know my past

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Speaker 1: is not we are not saying the same thing. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Like I said before, I no part of my past

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Speaker 1: was conservative, even when we was Christians. I come from

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Speaker 1: inner city urban church. So when we talk about impacting

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Speaker 1: the culture, I'm thinking beloved community. I'm thinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: the ten points program of the Black Panthers, So I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking revolution in that sense, radical generosity, loving one's neighbor,

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Speaker 1: esteeming others higher than themselves, having empathy for those who

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Speaker 1: are suffering. There's a chapter inside of my terrorform book

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Speaker 1: called y'all got it from the Homi Nish called institutionalized neighborliness.

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Speaker 1: So Jesus's thing is like you post to love your neighbor.

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Speaker 1: Love God and neighbor. Those are the two highest goods

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Speaker 1: you could have. Then what's the most effective way to

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Speaker 1: love the most amount of neighbors? And it's voting in

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Speaker 1: good laws. That's like concerning the welfare and well being

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Speaker 1: of the people around you. I believe in a pluralistic

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Speaker 1: society because the person you have been listening to on

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Speaker 1: this show is the person I kind of always being granted,

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Speaker 1: my faith has evolved in ways that my mama may

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Speaker 1: not be proud of. But this where we are right now.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day. Your boys are leftists,

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Speaker 1: anarchist leftists, like, look, that's where I'm at. But none

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Speaker 1: of which as far as I was concerned. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I don't see the I don't see that.

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Speaker 1: I don't got the dualistic thinking that like the American

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Speaker 1: government gotta be Christian, or that we can't coexist with

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Speaker 1: people that don't think the same as us. I just don't.

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Speaker 1: I ain't come from that. I didn't come from even

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Speaker 1: when I was really deep into the evangelical world, I

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Speaker 1: just didn't come from that. Like I have a nothing

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Speaker 1: about my church background would end at Donald Trump as

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Speaker 1: just I just didn't come from that tradition. Having said that,

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Speaker 1: the traditions that ended at Donald Trump were the one

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Speaker 1: that ran off the festival that controlled all the flows

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Speaker 1: of music and commerce right now, since I'm not from

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Speaker 1: a Bible belt city, I would not have known of

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Speaker 1: any of the things that was happening now when I

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Speaker 1: started doing music, since I come from Tonal Rat's la

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Speaker 1: underground battle rap, we were very aggressive. Like the idea

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Speaker 1: of being a Christian rapper was as weird as the

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Speaker 1: idea of being a Muslim rapper. You was just a rap,

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Speaker 1: like and you rapped about what you rapped about. You

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Speaker 1: were who you were, Like, you just kept it real,

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Speaker 1: so you just brought your full self to the sable.

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Speaker 1: I had no I didn't. I didn't know anything about

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Speaker 1: that stuff Garrison and even Robert talks about like I

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Speaker 1: just I didn't. I wasn't a part of that, Like,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know any of that until I started selling

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Speaker 1: album Now, once I started selling albums, then you start

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Speaker 1: getting booked at the churches that can afford to bring

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Speaker 1: an artist out. But I still wasn't an invited because

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Speaker 1: of the stuff I talked about to like the real

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Speaker 1: weird stuff now granted, some of the stuff was weird

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Speaker 1: that I got invited to. But and don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 1: the Black urban Church, the Innocent it is like lousy

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Speaker 1: with issues, like they're grossly homophobic, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: and patriarchal and some purity stuff. It's just different. It's

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Speaker 1: just not Republican, so it's different. But don't let me

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Speaker 1: pay no rose colored glasses here. I got all that

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Speaker 1: dust on me that I had to shake off. But

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Speaker 1: my album got pulled from the Christian bookstore. It was bad,

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Speaker 1: Like I found myself homeless in a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: because I stood on the business that I stood on.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, you over here in this corner,

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Speaker 1: and none of this is if you've been on part

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Speaker 1: of the show from the beginning, none of this is

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Speaker 1: new to you. Like you know where I come from,

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Speaker 1: you know who propaganda is at all. What I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to say is, but what happened was what happened happened

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Speaker 1: was since we weren't and there are friends, Since we

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Speaker 1: weren't reach records, we weren't La Craze, we weren't like that,

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Speaker 1: we wasn't DC talk, we wasn't like that. We was

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Speaker 1: underground edgy, you know, we not playing winter Jams, like

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Speaker 1: we wasn't a part of none of that since we weren't,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm totally like I'm with the gaze, like

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Speaker 1: I just wasn't. I just wasn't a part of that.

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Speaker 1: There was a certain type of masculinity or bravado or

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Speaker 1: punk rocketness that apparently attracted Doug Wilson to me, And

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Speaker 1: this nigga used to write me letters, like he wrote

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Speaker 1: me emails about I mean, this is not like I

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Speaker 1: put out a song called Precious Puritans, where I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm dragging the church for being so hung up on

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Speaker 1: the Puritans, Like I don't understand why you like them

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Speaker 1: so much? These slave owners, Like what is your thing?

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Speaker 1: Why y'all worshiped these people? You motherfuckers are racist? Like so,

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Speaker 1: I thought I was being very clear as to who

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Speaker 1: I was. Apparently he kind of liked I guess the

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Speaker 1: middle finger of it all that I it was just

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Speaker 1: who I was. Now I ain't know who this man was.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't point in no Moscow. I didn't know any

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Speaker 1: of this stuff. I knew his son, I knew his

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Speaker 1: son made movies. Right, I'm in a movie that his

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Speaker 1: son produced. It's a short film about it's called The

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Speaker 1: Hounds of Heaven. It's I mean, it's cool, right, I

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Speaker 1: ain't know it's daddy like that. But then when I

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Speaker 1: did meet his daddy, it turned out this one maya

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Speaker 1: Antenna's was wrong. I was talking revolution the way that

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Speaker 1: I talk revolution. Now, now you have to remember we

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Speaker 1: was in a time where this is pre Trump, so

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Speaker 1: a lot of the mask offedness was just not so

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Speaker 1: masked off. I kept my distance from a lot of

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Speaker 1: church folk because it was just so white. It was

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Speaker 1: just so white, and it was just so racist. So

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Speaker 1: I stayed away from a lot of stuff. But this

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Speaker 1: fool seemed different because he was talking some like some

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Speaker 1: fuck the system in the same way I was talking

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Speaker 1: fuck the system. But it turns out it wasn't the

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Speaker 1: same way. Nobody of all the like conferences, you know,

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Speaker 1: panels and stuff that I was getting booked on in

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Speaker 1: those early days, nobody asked me about like art, like

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Speaker 1: they all wanted to talk theology. Nobody was talking art.

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Speaker 1: Nobody was talking like or even just being like, look, man,

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Speaker 1: there's a dismantling of the system that needs to happen.

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Speaker 1: Like nobody was talking like that to me. That's stuff

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about. He came to me about art,

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Speaker 1: about wordsmith and about like changing culture and being a

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Speaker 1: leader to your community, and I was like, all right,

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Speaker 1: word I spoke at they school because again he was

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Speaker 1: asking me about hip hop, like how hip hop can

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Speaker 1: be a change agent for the culture, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: hip hop already is. And then I left it alone

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Speaker 1: because it was like it was just a gig. I

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Speaker 1: just was like, I ain't no way in the world

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna spend more time in Moscow, Idaho than I

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Speaker 1: need to. What's crazy is people's capacity to just be

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Speaker 1: kind like me showed me kindness Like to me, it

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Speaker 1: was just oh, you know, like that's what it seemed

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Speaker 1: like to me, nigga. Next thing I know, this article

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Speaker 1: come out, he calling himself a neo Confederate. I was like, man,

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Speaker 1: what bruh talking about? The Civil War was about states rights?

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Speaker 1: That's first time I heard anybody say something like that.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, a man as smart as this man is,

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Speaker 1: because this man read a lot. I was like, I

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Speaker 1: can't believe this man think that whatever I did it

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Speaker 1: was it was inconsequential to me. I was like, I

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Speaker 1: didn't ask weird, Like I said, my hommie the hummy

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Speaker 1: valchist for him, I guess his son's cool. He got

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Speaker 1: other friends like I just I come from an area

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Speaker 1: where a lot of times you got questionable friend But

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Speaker 1: it is verifiable on wax that when times got when

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Speaker 1: it was time to do some dirt, they sent me home.

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Speaker 1: You realize you probably shouldn't be kicking it with this boy.

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Speaker 1: No mo no, the nigga tripp it like what you

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Speaker 1: are to say, and then trump ate the church. And

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Speaker 1: for me, when trump ate the church, that was the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the end for me, Like that's when all

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Speaker 1: of my like Christian bookings kind of stopped. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was a time where I was like ready to

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Speaker 1: punt it all, you know, like none of this is

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Speaker 1: worth it. And then I had to go through a

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Speaker 1: time where you know, I had to look back and say, Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: what was that cream, that that gumbo that got my

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Speaker 1: ancestors through them slave ships, that survived them nigga quarters.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? What was that again, that

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Speaker 1: beloved city that's part of my culture, that part of

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Speaker 1: you that says like, again, that's non dualistic. I can't

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Speaker 1: tell you what it is, but I know that I've

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Speaker 1: experienced a beauty that I don't know if that's a

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Speaker 1: bearded man in the sky. I know I've experienced the

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Speaker 1: type of joy and belonging that I would wish forever.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to call it. I just know

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Speaker 1: I still get up in the morning and say my prayers.

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Speaker 1: You feel me. But as far as like this, the

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Speaker 1: evangelical space, I mean, I had been gone, so I

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Speaker 1: ain't know what was going on. Next thing. I know

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Speaker 1: this nigga on Senn. Oh lord, y'all ain't tell me.

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Speaker 1: I had not checked in in a while. The man

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Speaker 1: was just completely off my radar. I had no idea

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Speaker 1: what had happened to them short of my homie that

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Speaker 1: lived out there. And it's not like the signs weren't

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Speaker 1: there bruh talking some strangeness. I have an uncle, my

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Speaker 1: uncle Ken Jones, who is preacher down there in Miami.

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Speaker 1: My uncle Ken was like, well, I know him as

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Speaker 1: Uncle Ray. But my uncle Ken was like, nephew, watch

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Speaker 1: out for homeboy. And I was like all right, But again,

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Speaker 1: like for me, I'm like I mean you. I ain't

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Speaker 1: really ask him. Now. He was talking to me about

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Speaker 1: hip hop, so I talked to him about hip hop.

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Speaker 1: All that to say. I don't know where my aunt

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Speaker 1: Tennis was, so listen. Obviously I don't co sign. There's

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Speaker 1: no skeleton you finla fine about your boy? I had

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Speaker 1: no idea this man was talking the way he was talking. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let that man speak for himself. Let your boy speak

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Speaker 1: for myself. So before you be like, is this you nigga? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was there. That was twenty thirteen, y'all. I ain't no.

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Speaker 1: I just try to get on some stage, just damn.

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Speaker 1: I've always had the attitude of like, I only have

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Speaker 1: my music, so if you book me, you gonna get

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Speaker 1: what I do. So I thought, what if you inviting

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Speaker 1: me out? You know what it is with me? Anyway?

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Speaker 1: Is there somebody in your past who talking crazy? Now? Okay,

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Speaker 1: did you know they was gonna talk crazy like that?

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Speaker 1: I ain't know who was going. So look your boy.

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, I'll be well. I saw that

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Speaker 1: man on the news. I was like, man, what the

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Speaker 1: hell did he just say? Right? When you talk? When

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Speaker 1: you listen, you listening to somebody that you know full

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Speaker 1: of shit named Pete headass heck said, and he quoting Doug,

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay, wait mine, now, wait minute, are

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Speaker 1: we talking about the same I'm sorry, what like, hold

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Speaker 1: up now you're talking about the dude of moscout the

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Speaker 1: Hollies Pressler like what this way he out? Man, it's

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Speaker 1: like my Epstein file. I'm like, Nigga, I ain't no,

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Speaker 1: I ain't know. That's what was having it on the

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Speaker 1: other side of the paull anyway, that being with me