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Speaker 1: Also media Jiminy Christmas, Welcome back to Behind the Bastards,

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Speaker 1: a podcast that's, for whatever reason, is about aliens. Right now, Look, folks,

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Speaker 1: after three straight weeks of OPRAH, I needed something fun.

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Speaker 1: Uh So we did a couple of book episodes on

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Speaker 1: aliens and then I fell down a rabbit hole, and

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Speaker 1: so this week we're bringing back one of our favorite guests,

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Speaker 1: the Great Brandy Posey. Brandy, Welcome to the show. Do

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Speaker 1: you believe in aliens?

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Speaker 2: Well that's a good question, because like what is an alien?

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Speaker 2: I guess is how do you want to define it?

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Speaker 2: And also do you believe in multiple dimensions? Because these are.

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Speaker 1: You know what? That's all right, I hoped for, Not

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Speaker 1: so much the dimension stuff we're gonna be talking about.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking about a real active bastardry that's

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Speaker 1: kind of at the very beginning, not well not the beginning,

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Speaker 1: kind of the middle point. But it's it's foundational to

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Speaker 1: the UFO culture that gave us the X Files. Like

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Speaker 1: we are talking about the stuff that became the X Files,

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Speaker 1: which started as a disinformation campaign, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: it can be tied specifically to an Air Force intelligence

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Speaker 1: guy named Richard Dodie, who was basically brought in to

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Speaker 1: mentally abuse and destroy a basically decent, possibly definitely too

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Speaker 1: credulous guy who started finding evidence of, like recording evidence

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Speaker 1: of like secret Air Force research, and so the Air

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Speaker 1: Force was like, let's convince this guy it's all aliens,

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Speaker 1: and they kind of destroyed his mind. So that's the

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Speaker 1: story we're telling me about this.

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Speaker 3: It's a excellent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fascinating tale, both because it explains a

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Speaker 1: lot of how we get to qan on, how we

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Speaker 1: do get stuff like the X Files, a lot of

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Speaker 1: kind of the core myths of UFO, conspiracy culture, all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. But it's also just a great story about

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Speaker 1: like US Intelligence services absolutely destroying a man in order

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Speaker 1: to protect their ability to make engines of death, which

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Speaker 1: is you know, that's that's some good stuff. We all

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Speaker 1: love this shit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the more examples the better, and there are many,

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Speaker 2: but I don't know any with aliens yet, So very exciting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this will be a lot with aliens. And I'm

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm I think where I come down on this.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe I've never seen anything that's made me

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Speaker 1: convinced that there's life outside of this planet, but I'm

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Speaker 1: like open minded to it, like Foxholder, I'd like to

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Speaker 1: believe I'm just open minded in the sense that I'm

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Speaker 1: a skeptic, Like I don't think. I get kind of

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Speaker 1: pissed when people look at folks who are kind of

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Speaker 1: genuinely trying to interrogate the information out there and are like, well,

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Speaker 1: that's just crazy to think about, because it's not and

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Speaker 1: it's not crazy to think that the government would lie

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Speaker 1: about stuff like that. But that said, everything I've ever seen,

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Speaker 1: including like the stuff that came out at twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, that pill shaped craft, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: kind of like the most recent big UFO disclosure. And

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Speaker 1: if you watch that audio, because it's all from like

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Speaker 1: I think F eighteen pilots, you can hear the pilots

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Speaker 1: are genuinely like, what the fuck is this thing? I

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Speaker 1: have no idea what it is, right, and I do

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Speaker 1: I understand why people default too, well, that must mean

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Speaker 1: it's aliens. But like, there's a long history of all

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Speaker 1: sorts of countries the United States and countries that are

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Speaker 1: geopolitical enemies of the United States testing all sorts of

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Speaker 1: weird craft that like people don't like are capable of

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Speaker 1: doing things people did not know was possible at the time.

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Speaker 1: And that is like the origin of most of our

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Speaker 1: UFO myths is stuff that's completely explicable that you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: let some pilot in on, right, because it's too sure

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Speaker 1: for him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, because like you can imagine, like also, the first

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Speaker 2: time somebody saw an automobile, did they think that was

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Speaker 2: an alien? It's just you know, human, where as we're

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Speaker 2: building technology in different ways, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Or as we'll talk about because this is a lot

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Speaker 1: of the story we're talking about the day the first

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Speaker 1: time people saw drones, right, especially at night. You know,

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Speaker 1: you've got this this thing that's got a bunch of

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Speaker 1: lights on it that moves in a way that planes

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Speaker 1: certainly don't move like drones. Right, you see that shit

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty in the dead of night above an

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Speaker 1: air Force base. It's not necessarily like you're not a

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Speaker 1: crazy person to being like, well, I wonder if that's

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Speaker 1: something like fucking not of this earth? Right, And the

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Speaker 1: Air Force, Like, the basic story we're telling today is

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Speaker 1: the Air Force being like, oh yeah, that's much better

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Speaker 1: than them believing we're working on ways to murder people

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Speaker 1: through robots. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's the story we're

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Speaker 1: gonna tell this week, and that's the end of the

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Speaker 1: cold open ah, and we're back. We're starting the episodes. Brandy,

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Speaker 1: it's been a bit since you've been on the show.

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Speaker 1: You are a very busy person, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: before we get into the episode. Is there anything you

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Speaker 1: wanted to kind of plug up top?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Definitely. So my podcast, Lady to Lady has been

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Speaker 2: around for thirteen years at this point. We were every

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Speaker 2: Wednesday for thirteen years. We're an independent show where me

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Speaker 2: and my two co hosts have a fourth guest one

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Speaker 2: every week who's usually another female identifying person, and it's

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Speaker 2: just for women riffing in like a positive way, which

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Speaker 2: is something that entertainment doesn't want to show you very often.

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Speaker 2: So they've been around forever. I also have an independent

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Speaker 2: comedy record label that I started last year called burn

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Speaker 2: This Record, so you can find us on Instagram at

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Speaker 2: a burn This Records dot com. And basically that is

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Speaker 2: like a completely day project trying to lift off voices

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Speaker 2: from around the country that other labels aren't dealing with,

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Speaker 2: and I'm also doing it in a much less predatory

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Speaker 2: way than most comedy labels work. I've always self released

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Speaker 2: all of my own things, and I'm just like expanding

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Speaker 2: that information to try to like include more people and

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Speaker 2: kind of keep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah as a rule in the end history, the only

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Speaker 1: thing more evil than like the NSSAY and military intelligence

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Speaker 1: is comedy labels.

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Speaker 2: Yes, very, I mean honestly, you're not wrong.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, that was only a partial joke.

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Speaker 2: We could do. Yeah, I have a couple of bastards

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Speaker 2: for you for later, if you ever want to need

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Speaker 2: a couple of pitches.

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Speaker 1: It is funny how like horror, horror cinema and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: Nearly all like nice people involved in making it comedy

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Speaker 1: real mixed bag, A lot of monsters in comedy.

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Speaker 2: Nice people you, Oh yeah, I mean the best, the

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Speaker 2: best of people and the worst of people I've met

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Speaker 2: in comedy. And I think comedy is an important thing

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Speaker 2: in our culture because I think it's important to remember

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Speaker 2: that just because someone makes you laugh and is charming,

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Speaker 2: it does not mean they were a good person at all.

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Speaker 2: It is a trick. It's a trick that we're able

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Speaker 2: to do. Actually, one of the most important things to

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Speaker 2: accept about the world is like, just because somebody's you know,

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Speaker 2: we we don't need to get into this right now,

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Speaker 2: but I agree with you entirely.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah to fucking aliens. Now alliens, fucking aliens,

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Speaker 1: but back to fucking aliens.

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Speaker 2: I don't know where this story is going. We'll see

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Speaker 2: maybe maybe.

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Speaker 1: I mean it actually always nearly always doesn't like lead

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Speaker 1: any if you follow like any UFO conspiracy threat, it

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Speaker 1: does eventually like lead to people are breeding with the aliens.

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Speaker 3: I mean that was a big part.

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Speaker 1: Of the first five seasons of The X Files, right,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, the I started this episode by talking about

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Speaker 1: that Air Force footage. It's actually, honestly, I forget if

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Speaker 1: they were a force or Navy pilots, but it was

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Speaker 1: released twenty twenty, twenty twenty one of that like pill shaped,

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Speaker 1: weird thing in the sky that you know, those pilots are, like,

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Speaker 1: what the fuck is this shit? As I wrote this

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Speaker 1: the near the end of January twenty twenty five, the

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Speaker 1: most recent kind of big UFO news was that a

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Speaker 1: few days before we recorded this episode, Republican representative Tim

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Speaker 1: Burchett claimed that he spoke to an admiral who he

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Speaker 1: did not name, who told him that he had seen

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Speaker 1: that there was evidence that the Navy had evidence of

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Speaker 1: an unidea fed naval vehicle quote moving at hundreds of

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Speaker 1: miles an hour underwater that was as large as a

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Speaker 1: football field, Which sounds like he's trying to prepare us

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Speaker 1: for the idea that SeaQuest is real. And I hope

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Speaker 1: that means that Roy Scheider has secretly been alive this.

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Speaker 2: Whole time because Jonathan brandis Let's.

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Speaker 1: Say, Jonathan brandis, yes, yes, get them all back, bring

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Speaker 1: them all back. I'm so glad you got my SeaQuest joke, Brandy, No,

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Speaker 1: what ever does Prior to this, in November of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four, the Pentagon had published a report revealing hundreds

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Speaker 1: of previously undocumented UFO sidings. Now again UFO, and they

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Speaker 1: use unidentified aerial phenomena I think is the actual official

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Speaker 1: term they use. But like, this does not mean there

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Speaker 1: are hundreds of cases of the Pentagon said, yeah, we've

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Speaker 1: seen hundreds of alien signings. It means we've seen hundreds

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Speaker 1: of things in the sky at various points that like

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Speaker 1: we don't actually know fully what they are, right because

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Speaker 1: a lot of people being flying a lot of weird

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Speaker 1: shit in the sky, right, we just had a mile

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Speaker 1: public hysteria When unidentified drones were spotted flying over cities

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Speaker 1: in the Northeast. People panicked. There was like reports that, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's Iran has a drone carrier parked off the coast,

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Speaker 1: And like, guys, if you've been like looking at how

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Speaker 1: fucking Iranian power projection has been working in the areas

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Speaker 1: right next to them, they're not flying drones over DC

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Speaker 1: from a fucking hidden carrier. Panic was stoked by initial

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Speaker 1: claims by government officials that there was no record the FBI.

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Speaker 1: Someone came out was like, we don't have any record

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Speaker 1: of schedule drone flights, and people I know freaked out

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Speaker 1: because you're like, well, the FBI says they don't know

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Speaker 1: what it is. And again I need you, as I

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Speaker 1: always ask, think back to nine to eleven, right, where

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Speaker 1: all of these different federal agencies had pieces of that

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Speaker 1: and none of them talked to each other. The fact

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Speaker 1: that the FBI didn't know about this shit is not weird.

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Speaker 1: Eight government agencies are dogshit at talking to each other.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, it took several weeks, but in late January,

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Speaker 1: after the transition, the White House made a statement that

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Speaker 1: the drone flights had in fact been approved. This was

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Speaker 1: just everyone kind of fucking up, and the confusion was

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Speaker 1: likely stoked by a confluence of factors. Drone development is

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Speaker 1: advancing rapidly. Different federal agencies are bad at talking to

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Speaker 1: each other. Some of the drones being tested were likely

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Speaker 1: so classified that individuals involved preferred a public panic over

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Speaker 1: UFOs or Iranian drone carriers to actual info about their

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Speaker 1: projects being revealed. And all of these reasons are essentially

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Speaker 1: the same reasons that led to the birth of UFO

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theories in the first place, Starting with the supposed

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Speaker 1: crash landing at Roswell, New Mexico in nineteen forty seven.

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Speaker 1: The OG, Yeah, the OG, and it's I think there's

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Speaker 1: this attitude that, like, we have Roswell. There's this crash

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Speaker 1: in forty seven. The government initially says, and this is

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Speaker 1: what's really unique about Roswell. The first government reports are

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Speaker 1: some sort of fucking saucer crashed, right, yeah, the only

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Speaker 1: time that's really happened. And then they came out and said,

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Speaker 1: now it's a weather balloon. But there's this attitude that like,

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Speaker 1: and from that moment, Roswell was like the center UFO culture.

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Speaker 1: It really wasn't. It actually kind of fell off for

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Speaker 1: like more than a decade before people started like kind

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Speaker 1: of recentering Roswell in American UFO mythos. And part of

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Speaker 1: why so, first, when we're talking about like what actually

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Speaker 1: happened at Roswell, probably the best non alien theory is

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Speaker 1: that earlier in nineteen forty and I think this is

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Speaker 1: pretty credible. Earlier in nineteen forty seven, the US government

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Speaker 1: had launched something called Project Mogul, and the idea was

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Speaker 1: to set up a series of balloon listening stations to

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Speaker 1: receive and record evidence of Soviet nuclear trials. Researchers from

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Speaker 1: the US Army Air Force's Secret Are and D Division

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Speaker 1: tested a cluster of fourteen of these balloons, one of

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Speaker 1: which went down near Roswell in July. Just a few

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Speaker 1: weeks earlier, in June, a Republican politician and pilot named

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Speaker 1: Kenneth Arnold had sparked the first great UFO panic in

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Speaker 1: US history by reporting to have seen nine silver discs

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Speaker 1: flying near Mount Rainier, Washington. When the rancher who owned

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Speaker 1: the land and oswell that one of these balloons crashed

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Speaker 1: onto a guy named Mac Brazil went to the nearby

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Speaker 1: airfield and like went to the Air Force. Well, the

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Speaker 1: Army Air Corps was like, hey, I found like some

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Speaker 1: weird shit on my property. They sent out investigators. Now,

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Speaker 1: due to the secrecy behind Project Mogul, the investigators they

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Speaker 1: sent didn't know about that project. So some of these guys,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, the guy who's kind of first unseen

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Speaker 1: will claim years later and will be consistent for the

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Speaker 1: rest of his life after that point and believing in

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Speaker 1: saying like I saw an like an craft, I can't explain.

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Speaker 1: I believe it was an alien craft, right, or the

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Speaker 1: remains of an alien craft. Now, again, there was technology

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Speaker 1: in these air balloons that was not widely available or

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Speaker 1: that people and that people were not widely knowledgeable about.

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Speaker 1: And the guys who responded to this crash didn't fucking

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Speaker 1: know about the program because it was heavily classified. So

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Speaker 1: you know, you can come out of this either saying like, well,

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Speaker 1: I think that they did find some aliens, or I

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Speaker 1: think probably if we're doing the Akham's razor thing, it's

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Speaker 1: not super weird to assume like, yeah, the government, every

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Speaker 1: every part of our incredibly paranoid defense industry was lying

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Speaker 1: to every other part and hiding all sorts of shit,

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Speaker 1: and these guys just didn't know what the fuck they saw.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think often like we want aliens to be

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Speaker 2: true instead of that like it feels Yeah, it's much

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Speaker 2: more comforting. I mean yeah, I think people are even

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Speaker 2: with everything, all the little videos and everything been coming

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Speaker 2: out in the last few years and keep people keep

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Speaker 2: being like yeah, sure, okay, great, would love it. Can

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Speaker 2: they can they take over?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Sure an alien is here. That means somebody is actually

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Speaker 2: maybe in charge. That isn't us. It'd be great.

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Speaker 3: It's the I used to.

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Speaker 1: I definitely had that period where I was more in

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Speaker 1: the like dark hunter in the forest sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: like oh, maybe we don't want aliens, you know, to no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: at this point, if there's aliens, fuck, they can't be

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Speaker 1: worse than us.

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Speaker 3: They literally can't.

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Speaker 1: Like we're so bad at running our country at our planet, like.

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Speaker 3: Just them on, let them in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 3: They want to eat us.

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Speaker 1: Fine, I'm all we're already all being eaten. We're already

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Speaker 1: being consumed by the guys who owned fucking banks and

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Speaker 1: social media companies. We might as well be eaten by

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Speaker 1: aliens who have cool shit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe plastic has been an alien the entire time.

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Speaker 2: It why not take over Ever's brain?

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Speaker 1: Oh God, I would I would feel such a sense

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Speaker 1: of peace if the mushroom men at the center of

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Speaker 1: Mount Shasta were proved to be real. Truly, but alas so,

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Speaker 1: initial local reporting on the Roswell crash was pretty good.

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Speaker 1: It described accurately what was found on Max Farm. To

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Speaker 1: further alay suspicions, the Army allowed several journalists to tour

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Speaker 1: the nearby base at Alamagordo, where they were fed a

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Speaker 1: series of lies about the weather balloon. Namely, they were

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Speaker 1: told it was for meteorological purposes, not for spying on

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Speaker 1: Russian nuclear tests, because we really didn't want people to

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Speaker 1: know how well the Russians were doing at some of

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Speaker 1: that stuff, right, But otherwise they were generally accurately informed

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Speaker 1: about the crash and that it for a while. Interest

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Speaker 1: in UFOs flat lined not long after Roswell thanks to

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Speaker 1: Kenneth Arnold, now the whole Pacific Northwest had caught UFO

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Speaker 1: fever after he made public statements about seeing that group

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Speaker 1: of UFOs around Rainier and on July first, people in

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Speaker 1: and around Twin Falls, Idaho started seeing glowing discs or

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Speaker 1: balls in the sky. So many people saw them in

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Speaker 1: such quick succession that something real had to be going on.

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Speaker 1: This is one of those things where it's like, wow,

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Speaker 1: a shitload of people are seeing something like this is

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Speaker 1: not just a hysteria. And it was not just a hysteria.

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Speaker 1: One of the discs was recovered and was found to

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Speaker 1: be a thirty inch metal disc with a plexiglass bubble

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Speaker 1: and some scratch assembled electronic parts, vacuum tubes and shit.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing turned out to have been a prank

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Speaker 1: by some kids with a basic understanding of engineering.

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Speaker 3: They built a fake UFO. Respect respect. It's cool.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, I'm always supportive of doing that.

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Speaker 1: Why not fuck with people at this point?

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Speaker 4: Ye?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's actually.

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Speaker 1: What got us here. And maybe that's not a good idea.

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Speaker 1: Don't listen to me, folks, don't listen to me. We

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Speaker 1: maybe do if it's funny. So public interest in UFOs

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Speaker 1: kind of fell off after this. This is sort of

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Speaker 1: what makes people like because there's this initial surge in

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Speaker 1: interest and belief, and like roswell might have immediately been

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Speaker 1: kind of a big thing, but then there's this very

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Speaker 1: famous hoax that happens within days of roswell, and suddenly

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Speaker 1: people are like, oh, you know what, maybe only crazy

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Speaker 1: people in cranks believe in UFOs, right, And that's kind

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Speaker 1: of what happens after this, right, there's UFO culture continues

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Speaker 1: to evolve, but it's not a thing that the average

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Speaker 1: American feels good. If they take it seriously, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to talk about it, right, because then you'll get

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Speaker 1: kind of like written off as a kook, you know.

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Speaker 2: Well, and it ruins of their lives. I think everyone

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Speaker 2: that's ever come forward like publicly about you know, a

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Speaker 2: potential alien encounter, they're not better for it after they've

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Speaker 2: told everybody about that.

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Speaker 1: No, and as again as we'll talk about a lot

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Speaker 1: of those people, you know, are, we're definitely being fed

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Speaker 1: liesed by the government because government was like, well, shit,

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Speaker 1: we can distract attention from like the shit that we're

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Speaker 1: doing if we just like fuck with these people. So

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty, aguy named Frank Scully publishes a book

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Speaker 1: titled Behind the Flying Saucers, based on an article he'd

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Speaker 1: written for a variety. The core of this book, in

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Speaker 1: the core of that article was based on a speech

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Speaker 1: by an oil millionaire and alien obsessive named Silas Newton,

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Speaker 1: or at least that's how Silas Newton wanted people to

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Speaker 1: see him as like a guy who'd gotten rich in

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Speaker 1: oil and was also into aliens. Silas Newton was a

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Speaker 1: con man.

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Speaker 2: As most silas As are. Not to smirch the Silases

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Speaker 2: of the world. Silai, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I've never met again Silas.

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Speaker 2: Look another a name frankly thankfully lost to the ages

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 3: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Don't name your kids Silas. And if you're a Silas,

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Speaker 1: change your name right. Yeah, you know that's the official

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Speaker 1: stance of this podcast. Sorry, Silas is no.

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Speaker 2: I agree, official stance of lady to lady as well.

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Speaker 2: I speak for my podcast podcasts are against Silas.

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Speaker 1: We're going to get like ale, a whole group together

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Speaker 1: here that we're gonna be like the NATO of trying

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Speaker 1: to stop people from being named Silas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 1: Author Adam go rightly describes what Newton is saying about

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Speaker 1: aliens in this lecture this way. Newton claimed that a

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Speaker 1: flying saucer piloted by other worldly midgets had crashed crashed

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Speaker 1: in Aztec. New Mexico in nineteen forty eight. The source

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Speaker 1: of Newton's saucer revelations was a mysterious doctor g who

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Speaker 1: had purportedly examined the remains of these interplanetary travelers and

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Speaker 1: viewed pieces of the saucer debris.

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Speaker 3: So, you know, not the.

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Speaker 1: Most woke way to describe any of this, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: in the fifties, what.

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Speaker 3: Do you expect.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting too, because like there's those Peruvian quote unquote

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Speaker 2: alien mummies that came out a year or two ago that.

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Speaker 1: I'll just talk about those for a minute too, yeahah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that's that's a I don't know that we seem

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Speaker 1: to be generally believe that aliens are short rather than tall.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, unless you which is got the Nordics of course.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Scully writes this book based on the kind of

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Speaker 1: shit that Silas is saying, and as soon as the

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Speaker 1: book comes out, it is revealed to all be based

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Speaker 1: on a host. Newton had been working with a friend

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Speaker 1: who spread lies about aliens because he was just sort

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Speaker 1: of a general con man. He was probably not a millionaire,

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Speaker 1: and he certainly did not have a legitimate oil business.

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Speaker 1: He actually made his money by selling fake leases to

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Speaker 1: supposedly oil rich land alongside magnetic oil detecting machine. So

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Speaker 1: he will he will sell you a lease that isn't

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Speaker 1: real to land and bring along a machine that you

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Speaker 1: can lease that will show you that there's oil on

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Speaker 1: that land, and none of it's real. Just a con man,

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Speaker 1: a beautiful con man, one of these. Well America is great.

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Speaker 2: But that's pretty good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So he's a scoundrel with an eye for any

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Speaker 1: con that might bring profit, and he was caught quickly.

399
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Speaker 1: But his work caught the eye of a group of

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Speaker 1: the greatest scoundrels and common in US history, the Central

401
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Speaker 1: Intelligence Agency or some government agency. We actually don't know

402
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Speaker 1: that it was the CIA. I don't know that any

403
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 1: of this is true as we're going to get to

404
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,919
Speaker 1: all of the sources on stuff, like there's definitely definitely

405
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 1: a lot that is verifiable here. But every source who

406
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Speaker 1: comes forward from inside the government, all of the former

407
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Speaker 1: intel officers who talk about this stuff, they're all also

408
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 1: kind of not kind of they're all also extremely fucking shady,

409
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 1: and they lie about a ton of shit. So in

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Speaker 1: his book Saucer, Spooks and Kooks, Adam go Wrightley notes

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Speaker 1: that a former CIA officer, Carl Flock, claimed to have

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Speaker 1: uncovered records that Silas Newton was visited by shadowy government

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Speaker 1: agents who asked him to keep telling tall tales about

414
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Speaker 1: flying saucers. Flock mused, did the US government or someone

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Speaker 1: associated with it use Newton to discredit the idea of

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Speaker 1: crashed flying saucers so a real capture saucer or saucers

417
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Speaker 1: could be more easily kept under wraps. Was this actually

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with real saucers, but instead some sort

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Speaker 1: of psychological warfare operation? And I believe I think there's

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Speaker 1: a very good chance that Silas was encouraged to keep

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Speaker 1: doing this, because we have good documentation that different intel agencies,

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Speaker 1: including the NSA, encouraged people to tell.

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Speaker 3: Flying saucer stories.

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Speaker 1: Right, the CIA as well did this. I don't think

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Speaker 1: Silas Newton was being Again, I don't think this is

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Speaker 1: like psych warfare or necessarily covering up a real alien thing.

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Speaker 1: The evidence suggests that they're covering up weapons development, right. Yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: like a startling number of foundational UFO culture dudes, Carl

429
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 1: was also into right wing politics. After working at IBM

430
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Speaker 1: and the CIA, he was hired by the American Enterprise

431
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: Institute to work as a senior editor. He contributed to

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Speaker 1: The Libertarian Review and Reason magazine, as well as writing

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Speaker 1: short stories about aliens. During the Reagan administration, he was

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Speaker 1: made Deputy assists Secretary of Defense for Operational Test and Evaluation.

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Speaker 1: And this is a lot of a lot of these guys,

436
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 1: like so many. It's again, when people are kind of

437
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: casually into it, they'll be like, well, now it's pilots

438
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: saying that there's aliens, and now it's a member of

439
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 1: the government. And it's like from the beginning, the two

440
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: people making the most reports that there were aliens were

441
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: Republican politicians and pilots, because pilots see a lot of

442
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: weird shit, and Republicans believe anything you tell them.

443
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, I know, exactly.

444
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 3: Yeah.

445
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 1: So Flock is an interesting figure in UFO culture because

446
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: he was both a believer, or at least a quasi believer,

447
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: and a skeptic, publishing a book that ultimately debunked Roswell

448
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: and first made public the connection between that event and

449
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: Project Mogul. As guys in this world go, he's more

450
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: credible than most, but that comes with a big asterisk, right, Yeah, yeah,

451
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: So for a while, flying saucers are decidedly fringe, although

452
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: some of the most consistent true believers are former military

453
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: officers who often had intelligence clearances. In the nineteen fifties,

454
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: some of the most active UFO research groups by civilians

455
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,479
Speaker 1: were made by and for former military intelligence guys. And

456
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 1: this may have had something to do with the fact

457
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 1: that the CIA and THEDIA the Defense Intelligence Agency, had

458
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 1: experimented by this early point in putting out misinformation on

459
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 1: UFOs to test subordinates, right, And the logic here is that, Okay,

460
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 1: you want to know this guy is kind of like

461
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: he's a security guard at a facility where we're really

462
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: doing some shit, and maybe he's someone we're thinking about

463
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: promoting to be in a more sensitive thing. Tell him

464
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: that there's aliens. Tell him that we have a flying saucer.

465
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: If that gets out in the media, you know, this

466
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: guy can't be trusted, right, And if he doesn't say shit,

467
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: then maybe you tell him the truth. Maybe you don't,

468
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: but like, either way, you know you can trust him

469
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 1: because if he's not going to tell the media that

470
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: like there's fucking aliens, maybe he's actually like somebody that

471
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: we can trust. With with real secrets.

472
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 2: You know, I love that the government runs like scientology.

473
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 3: It's absolutely runs like science, all cults all the way down.

474
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 3: Maybe that's American culture.

475
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, is that of xenu. It's whatever we're calling this one.

476
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

477
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: Flying saucers become sexy again in the late nineteen seventies

478
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: when a researcher named Leonard Stringfield makes a public presentation

479
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 1: at the nineteen seventy eight Mutual UFO Network Symposium. Moof

480
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: On I think is what people call it.

481
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: I've been to a mof on meeting.

482
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 3: Oh, I would love to go.

483
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: To a moof on meeting.

484
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 3: That sounds like a hoot.

485
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: It was he a blast.

486
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: He claims that a retired Air Force colonel had told

487
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: him that an alien craft had in fact been recovered

488
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: at Roswell and this guy was one of the first

489
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: military responders at Roswell Roswell and died convinced that what

490
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: he saw was an alien spacecraft. The narrative starts to

491
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 1: pick up steam from here, and an nssay MIMO revealed

492
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: as part of a Foyer request suggests the CIA had

493
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: something to do with it. Here's go Wrightley's book again.

494
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: The memo dated August twenty ninth, nineteen seventy eight, was

495
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: written by an unidentified NSA AS signee who commented on

496
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: what he suspected to be a number of fraudulent CIA

497
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: memos presented at the symposium. It was later revealed that

498
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: the assignee in question was a former NSA employee and

499
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: mof On board. Remember Tom Delouis and a lot of

500
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: guys at moufon have like like are reached out to

501
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: buy people in intelligence agencies and fed info. So it's

502
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: very hard to say what, like, were these CIA memos

503
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: just something some people made up? Were they memos the

504
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: CIA faked? Or were they memos the NSA faked pretending

505
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: it was the CIA? Right, all of these things are

506
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: kind of possible because all of this shit happened to

507
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: some extent.

508
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: And that they want to believe. Then you're just like, please,

509
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 2: I won't question it. Just give it to me.

510
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just give me the good stuff. Yeah.

511
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: Speaking of the good stuff, that's the sponsors of our

512
00:25:51,520 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: podcasts and we're back. So if you take nothing else

513
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,719
Speaker 1: from these episodes, it should be that military officers and

514
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: intelligence agency employees backing up UFO conspiracies or any other

515
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: kind of conspiracies. Doesn't mean those conspiracies are likelier to

516
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: be true because all of these people are professional liars, right.

517
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: Not only are they professional liars, but there's nothing that

518
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: means somebody who reached a moderately high level in the

519
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 1: CIA or the Special Forces or the DA is not

520
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: just as crazy as that guy you met at a

521
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: bar who claimed the Martian stole his best deference, right like,

522
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: Michael Flynn is out of his goddamn mind. Was legitimately

523
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: a guy with a lot of like who had had

524
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: a very high position in the military. Established he had

525
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,239
Speaker 1: a lot to do with intel and specific areas, right like,

526
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: and he's you know, and a dick and a fascist. Now, yeah,

527
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: to your average American with slightly nerdy inclinations, a lot

528
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: of this UFO stuff is kind of like background noise.

529
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: Kids love it, you know. There's like an entertainment a

530
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: lot of movies and stuff based around this stuff in

531
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties, and so it's not necessarily like

532
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: taken super seriously by a ton of people. And it

533
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: probably started as kind of like a lark for a

534
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: guy that we're going to be talking a lot about

535
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: in these episodes, who was I think, I don't know

536
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: if hero is the right term, but I'm very sympathetic

537
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: to him. A fellow named Paul Benowitz, and Paul Benowitz

538
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: is the victim of Richard Dody and of the US

539
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: intelligence establishment during this period. He is an engineer with

540
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: a master's degree in physics who started his own small business,

541
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: Thunder Scientific, in nineteen sixty nine. People will say that

542
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: Paul was a genius with electronics. He is very good

543
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: at what he does. He'd moved to New Mexico to

544
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: be closer to the bleeding edge of the experimental aerospace industry,

545
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: and he dug a niche for himself there, providing different

546
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: measurement instruments for NASA and the Air Force. He hit

547
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,239
Speaker 1: the market at a spectacular time when all of these

548
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: industries were exploding, and his intention was initially to get

549
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: a peece HD. And he has to like shelf that

550
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: because his company is so successful and it's growing so fast.

551
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: Thunder Scientific established a lab right outside of Kirtland Air

552
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: Force Base and had regular dealings with scientists and officers

553
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: from the newly established Air Force and the book Project Beta.

554
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: Greg Bishop Wrights, the demands of his business now left

555
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: little time for friends and socializing, but this did not

556
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: bother him. Thunder Scientific and his family were all that

557
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: he needed. What little time he had left was devoted

558
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: to plowing through a small collection of wild West novels,

559
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: his only guilty pleasure. So pretty nice, harmless guy. He's

560
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: making like altimeters and shit, like for devices for measuring

561
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: like you know, moisture in the air on planes and

562
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: stuff like that, kind of like nerdy stuff, right.

563
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: No, totally, this is definitely the CIA is going to

564
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: ruin this mountain's.

565
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, intelligence, but the CIA, like there's a number of

566
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: people involved in fucking with Paul. For guy, Paul has hobbies.

567
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: He's a pilot and he's like an aerobatic pilot, so

568
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: he likes to do like plane stunts and shit.

569
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: He's very good.

570
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: And starting in the nineteen seventies he begins paying and

571
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: increasing attention to the UFO movement. He joins the Aerial

572
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: Phenomenon Research Association or APRO, which is a civilian UFO

573
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: research org based out of Tucson, And so that's like

574
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: somewhere I think sometime in like the mid seventies is

575
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: when he joins apro and so he's pretty plugged into

576
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: all this stuff. A year after Leonard Stringfield writes, you know,

577
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: he co writes that book that reignites interest in Roswell

578
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: and flying saucers. In April of nineteen seventy nine, Paul

579
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: attends a big conference on cattle mutilation, which had just

580
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: started to become a thing that people were talking about.

581
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: And this is when I say, a conference on cattle mutilation.

582
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: This is less kooky than a lot of these events

583
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: are going to sound, because in part there's some actual

584
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: shit being done to cow. So there's some very there's

585
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: some serious people there who actually, like, I want to

586
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: know what the fuck is going on?

587
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: Uh.

588
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: The event itself is hosted by Republican Senator Harrison Schmidt,

589
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: a former astronaut who'd walked on the moon. Among the

590
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: attendees were numerous FBI agents, politicians, local law enforcement officers,

591
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: scientists from Los Alamos, tribal officials, and of course new

592
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: age psychics wearing robes alongside dishevelled ufologists.

593
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: Of course for the yeah, yeah.

594
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: Of course, I mean they have they have to be there.

595
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: I mean, right, and what a party in the parking lot.

596
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 2: Somebody's got to be throwing the after parties.

597
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: So you have there and acid I think is still

598
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: legal at this point. Maybe they'd banded by man. The

599
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: good koke is out there, people have quailudes. I bet

600
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: the parties were wild.

601
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely comic. Con Eat your heart. I wonder what the

602
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: swag is for the free swag for the cattle Mutilation Convention?

603
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: They what's in the go go away bag?

604
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, lymph nodes so a reporter for the New Mexico

605
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: and into to describe the conference as a farce featuring

606
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: the strangest collection of weirdos ever assembled in New Mexico,

607
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: and I will tell you right now that is no

608
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,959
Speaker 1: longer an accurate statement. I've spent too much time in

609
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: New Mexico to believe that a lot of.

610
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, med Bar is the bar is an alien

611
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 2: one of my favorite states. Yeah, I love it.

612
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: So said, weirdos were united by their interest in a

613
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: real phenomenon. This is not fake. The fact that cattle

614
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: are being found dead and surgically mutilated is not fake.

615
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: This is a thing that is happening right. There's a

616
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: lot of theories as to why. There's one that is

617
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: almost certainly the actual truth here that we're going to

618
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: talk about. But this is a real thing that is happening,

619
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: and people are rightfully like, what the fuck is going on?

620
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: Right?

621
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: This starts when a decent number of cattle are found

622
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: dead and surgically mutilated in the Dulcet area, like in

623
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: a near Dulce, New Mexico, which itself is near the

624
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: Hikarilla Reservation. One of the first investigators is a state

625
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: trooper named Gabe Valdez, who's a very like a kind

626
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: of a titan in the ufology figure field, and again

627
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: one of the guys who's more credible, you know, kind

628
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: of within this community, which is not to say does

629
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: not believe some stuff that can't be proven, but just

630
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: is one of the guys who is attempting to actually

631
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: go about some of this like scientifically. And Gabe as

632
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: he's looking because people, you know, he's getting calls from

633
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: like ranchers like I've got these cows, like fucking cut up, man,

634
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: this is fucking weird, he finds tripod prints near several

635
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 1: of the corpses, and he initially theorizes that there's an

636
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: a that this is evidence that an alien craft had

637
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: landed nearby, which it is not, but Waldas keeps digging

638
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: and he eventually uncovers evidence that that makes it very

639
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: clear this.

640
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 3: Is human beings did this, right, And the.

641
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: Specific evidence is that several cows were found to have

642
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: been drugged with atropine and a gas mask had been

643
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: found at one site.

644
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: Right, god, damn, what's what's the matter with people? This

645
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 2: is a student film gone wrong?

646
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 3: Brandy.

647
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: This is so much more fucked up than you. Yeah,

648
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: this is so so fucking crazy. What the reason why

649
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: this is happening? The likely reason again, this isn't. I

650
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: can't tell you exactly. This is definitely what happened. But

651
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: the theory of Valdez and his son come up with,

652
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: I think is very credible. So Valdez starts to suspect

653
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: that the government is secretly killing and studying the corpse

654
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: of cattle. He found that most of the deceased animals

655
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: had their tongues and lymph nodes, specifically, their lymph nodes removed,

656
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: which is the organ you would take if you wanted

657
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: to do tests for cancers.

658
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: Right, okay, yeah, so there is good reason.

659
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: Now to suspect that these mutilations were tied not to aliens,

660
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: but to a secret government project called Project gas Buggy,

661
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: which had been launched in nineteen sixty seven as part

662
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: of the Plowshare program.

663
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 3: You have you heard of the plowshare program?

664
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: No, I don't know about the Plowshare program. It hasn't

665
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: come up in my searches.

666
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 4: Oh Man.

667
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: Is one of my favorite things the government ever did.

668
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: And by that I mean like one of the funniest things.

669
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,719
Speaker 1: This is like fucked up and horrible, but it's extremely funny.

670
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: And it's also kind of soothing because if the government

671
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: did this what I'm about to explain to you and

672
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: didn't get us all killed, I think we've got a

673
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: pretty good shot of surviving the next few years. Great

674
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: love that I try to be hopeful here. So Project

675
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: Plowshare was named after Isaiah two to four in the Bible.

676
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: They will beat their swords into plowshares, right, And that

677
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: means like, we're going to take these weapons and turn

678
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: them into a tool that we.

679
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 3: Used to get food. Right.

680
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: The project was established as a way for Dwight Eisenhower

681
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: to feel less bad about presiding over the birth of

682
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: a planet killing Arsenal. In nineteen fifty three, he gave

683
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: his famous Adams for peace speech at the UN and

684
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 1: promise that the United States would quote devote its entire

685
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: heart and mind to find the way by which the

686
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: miraculous inventiveness of man shall not be dedicated to his death,

687
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: but consecrated to his life. And sort of the the

688
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: less kind of shiny, you know, beautiful thing going on

689
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: here is that, like we were making so many goddamn nukes,

690
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: but like by this point, by like the sixties seventy,

691
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: we have the sixties especially, like we've got enough nukes

692
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,479
Speaker 1: to kill everything, right, and the Russians has the same

693
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,959
Speaker 1: number basically, you know, yeah, and other people are starting

694
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: to get them, and like some of the folks making

695
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: the doing this feel kind of bad and are like,

696
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: I kind of want my life to be a little

697
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: bit more than just building a death machine for the

698
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: entire species. Maybe there's a way to use all of

699
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: these nightmare weapons to do good shit, right, Yeah, what

700
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 1: wishful thinking?

701
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 2: That's adorable. Yeah, I'm not responsible for this world becoming

702
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 2: a barren waste land someday. Absolutely not. No.

703
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: No, So the idea here is, let's figure out if

704
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: there's a way to use nuclear explosions to speed and

705
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: assist government civil works projects, right, different construction projects, and

706
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: specifically one of the big initial things. So in nineteen

707
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: fifty six, there's this thing called the Suez Crisis, right

708
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: the Suez Canal. You remember when that big boat got

709
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: stuck and at like, yeah, it was very funny, but

710
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: also shit got like really expensive for a while because

711
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: a lot of trade goes through the Suez Canal in Egypt,

712
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: it's very important. Well, in nineteen fifty six, the Suez

713
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 1: Canal Company, which had been owned by Britain and France,

714
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: gets nationalized by the Egyptian president and there's like a

715
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: crisis over like whether or not Europeans are going to

716
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: be able to use the Suez Canal. And like this,

717
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: by the way, is still a major factor in geopolitics.

718
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: Like particularly liberals in the US like to act like

719
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: France and whatnot is like so much less fucked up

720
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: of a country. But look look at the kind of

721
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: weapons France sells the Egyptians. No matter who's in charge,

722
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: no matter what they do to their people, no matter

723
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: how violent an asshole they are, France is always willing

724
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: to sell the Egyptians any kind of fucked up weapons

725
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: they want. Because there's this canal and it's kind of

726
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: a big deal, right, So yeah, fifty six the Seuez

727
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: Canal gets shut down, and people are like people in

728
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: our gay people in you know, our allied governments are like, fuck,

729
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: we got to figure out something. And what's the most

730
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: logical thing to do if you need to replace the

731
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: Suez Canal?

732
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 2: Brandy, Oh, make it bigger, blow it up.

733
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no no, that's crazy talk. No,

734
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 1: the most logical thing to do is to detonate five

735
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty thermonuclear weapons in a line across the

736
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: Holy Land through the Negev Desert to the Mediterranean Sea.

737
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 4: Oh.

738
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: I know about this. I just read about this.

739
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: Holy Land five hundred nukes.

740
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so fun. That's this is also a recent

741
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: theory that's come up in the last oh say, a

742
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: year and a half or so we've been hearing about. Okay, interesting, great,

743
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: Yeah it is.

744
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: I it's fascinating to think of how different everything going

745
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: on there would be if, like, an addition to all

746
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: of the awful stuff happening, everyone had fucking radiation poisoning

747
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: because we set off five hundred and twenty nuclear explosions.

748
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: Jesus, that's probably wouldn't have gone.

749
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 3: Well, I would have.

750
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: Loved probably been in the initial pitch of this, just

751
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 2: somebody's like, all right, hear me out, I know this

752
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 2: mom can destroy anything? What if?

753
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:10,479
Speaker 4: Yeah?

754
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's get through okay, all right?

755
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? What do you think a picture of a shovel?

756
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: We all hate digging, right, what do we love nukes?

757
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: We just want to see what it looks like to

758
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,720
Speaker 2: do that. It wouldn't gonna be the Earth and half

759
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: or anything.

760
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I can't think of any downsides to setting

761
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: off five hundred and twenty nukes in the Holy Land.

762
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: Seems like a good call.

763
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 2: What Jesus is really what he died on the cross for?

764
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 4: Was this?

765
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 3: Like he actually he would have loved nukes?

766
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yeah.

767
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's from the Book of Silas, which

768
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 2: is a horrible book that was we have never you know, published.

769
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why we hate Silass. So the idea of

770
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,439
Speaker 1: repurposing that this doesn't catch on people, Thank thank god?

771
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,240
Speaker 3: Enough are you? Are you out of your fucking mind?

772
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 4: Do that?

773
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: So we don't do this. But the idea of repurposing

774
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 1: nukes for civil use lingered on and In nineteen fifty seven,

775
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: Project Plowshare is established, and I want to quote from

776
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: a write up from the Science History Institute, Plowshare scientists

777
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: looked at the natural world as if it were a

778
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: piece of clay waiting to be sculpted by nuclear tools.

779
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: As the father of the hydrogen bomb, Edward Teller remarked,

780
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: if your mountain is not in the right place, drop

781
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: us a card. And I do love that, like atomic

782
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: era mad scientist.

783
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: Shit, yeah, yeah, yeah, slag the flagger is real.

784
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is kind of that's kind of cool. Yeah.

785
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

786
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: And in nineteen sixty, Popular Mechanics devoted an article to

787
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: the idea with Edward Teller. Sophie will pull up the

788
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: thing on the screen here, but like it's the cover

789
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: of Popular Mechanics March nineteen sixty. There's a picture of

790
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: Teller sitting at a desk with a bunch of papers.

791
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 1: We're going to work miracles. The atom's power is ready

792
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: to unlock a treasure chest of Arctic oil, dig open

793
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: an Alaskan harbor, open the spigot for Colorado's shale. And

794
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: this article is by Edward Teller. I'm going to read

795
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: a little bit of that opening When you look at

796
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: a map of Alaska, you will observe that Point Hope

797
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: at the northwest corner, projecting out into the out Arctic Ocean.

798
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: Above Point Hope, the shore is exposed to the polar

799
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,439
Speaker 1: ice pack, which even in the summer, is never far

800
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 1: Offshore ships can travel north of this point only one

801
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: month and twelve but below Point Hope the shore swings

802
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: to the southeast and the sea is free of ice

803
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: for three months of the year. Nearby our coal deposits

804
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: and somewhat farther oil that might attract commerce except for

805
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: one vital lack. There is no harbor, no good anchorage

806
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: for sea going ships. So they theorize a number of things,

807
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: but one of them is to literally melt big chunks

808
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 1: of the ice caps with nukes so that we can

809
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: get it like coal and oil more effectively.

810
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: I like that they just did the slow version of

811
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 2: it by just never move away from oil.

812
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, we uh it turns out we got

813
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: there anyway, guys.

814
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:04,479
Speaker 3: Good news.

815
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess better than nuking it. Probably.

816
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: So Teller's got a problem, which is, we know at

817
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: this point radiation bad and thankfully, like hydrogen bombs, less radiation,

818
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 1: but like not no radiation, And so there's a there's

819
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: a very good question here, which is like, hey, if

820
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: we detonate like a nuke underground, won't it like could it?

821
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: Could that be bad? Could it like cause real problems?

822
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: And so Teller has to direct the first underground test

823
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: of a thermonuclear weapon to gather data for busy bodies

824
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: who kept asking questions like.

825
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 2: That so annoying.

826
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: So the initial data seems to be good. They detonate

827
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: a one point seven kiloton nuke in Nevada, and I'm

828
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: using nuke interchangeably here for all atomic weapons. Obviously, a

829
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: hydrogen bomb is a very different thing from like the

830
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: kind of bombs we used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But

831
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: these are they are mostly using like hydrogen bomb, Like

832
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: that is the idea for plowshare after a point, because

833
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: it's just like a better tool. And the initial data

834
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,479
Speaker 1: seems to suggest that, like, oh, actually, like this might

835
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: be pretty safe, right, that's the initial data. This ignites

836
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 1: a spree of dangerously insane plans, like Project Gnome, which

837
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: suggested nuking a massive underground salt deposit in Alaska in

838
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: order to create heat and steam to run a turbine

839
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 1: providing power for a nearby city, and Sophie's gonna pull

840
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: up like a diagram explaining this where it's just like generator, turbine,

841
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: condenser and then molten salt from nuclear explosion.

842
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: It's for sure gonna work.

843
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 3: Definitely, it totally will be safe.

844
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: It's not crazy at all, Like obviously molten salt from

845
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: a nuclear explosion. There's no possible downside to do it creating.

846
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 2: That, so no, never.

847
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: The good news is that local indigenous leaders find out

848
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: that like Tellers, like what if we just knew huge

849
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: chunks of like Inuit territory and shit to see if

850
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: that does something. And they're like this seems bad. And

851
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: they're particularly concerned because Teller had just carried out an

852
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: H bomb test a couple of years earlier in the

853
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 1: Marshall Islands that had gone bad and caused the highest

854
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 1: recorded levels of nuclear fallout and history. They had destroyed

855
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: several item islands, and like that people lived on, like

856
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: it's a real problem. We've done episodes if it could

857
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: happen here on the Marshalls and how much the US

858
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: focks them over. But Teller's a big part of that,

859
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: so you know, he doesn't get to newke Alaska to

860
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,479
Speaker 1: the extent that he wants to Neewke Alaska. And again

861
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: and again his high hopes are dashed by the fact

862
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: that everything he suggests and does is completely out of

863
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: its mind. By nineteen sixty seven, Plowshare had moved on

864
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: to a new idea. Deposits of natural gas could be

865
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 1: extracted if nukes were used to break up dense rock

866
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: formations that kept them trapped. This is the origins, like

867
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: some of the origins of hydraulic fracking, right, initially they

868
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: want to do hydraulic fracking with nukes. Oh my god,

869
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: great stuff, guys. Yeah, let's bucket this planet nuke at all.

870
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 2: No, No, it exists to be broken. It's the whole

871
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: point of living.

872
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, these these guys, it's amazing because like you can

873
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: get over the counter, like just incredibly potent barbituates at

874
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: this point, and everybody is drunk and on barbituates the

875
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: whole time this is going on. And when you understand that,

876
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: it really does explain a lot of the decisions being made.

877
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 2: No, yeah, these are not sober decisions at all. These

878
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: are not These people.

879
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: Are eating what is effectively xanax like candy bars. So

880
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: Project gas Buggy follows, right, that's the idea. We're gonna

881
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: frack with nukes. And they set off a bomb equivalent

882
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: to twenty nine kilotons of TNT in northwest New Mexico

883
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: near Dulce. From that article by the Science History Institute.

884
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: The detonation on December tenth, nineteen sixty seven blasted open

885
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: an underground chamber three hundred and thirty five feet high

886
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: and almost a hundred and sixty five feet in diameter,

887
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: and successfully fractured the rock, spurring a vast increase in

888
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: gas production rates at the site. Unfortunately, the blast also

889
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: contaminated the gas with radioactive tritium, making it unsellable to consumers.

890
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: So it does work, it just makes poison radioactive natural gas.

891
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 2: Love it where we peep that? When we make that,

892
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 2: what do we do with that?

893
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 1: I'm just curious what God willing now that our FK

894
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: is going to be in there.

895
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 3: You know, I think we can.

896
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: I'm hopeful that we can just make that legal to

897
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: use in homes and we can all have all the

898
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 1: radioactive tritium gas in our living rooms that we need.

899
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I choose from my kids what they get

900
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: exactly exactly.

901
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: Maybe it's good for them, you know, maybe maybe it

902
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: counteracts the vaccines.

903
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, eat your radioactive gas, kid, come on.

904
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

905
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: Plowshare scientists wouldn't see real success in the fracking front

906
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: until nineteen sixty nine, when a nuke set off under

907
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: the Colorado River released one point five million dollars in

908
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: natural gas that was usable for the mere cost of

909
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: eleven million dollars. Also, the gas was still very poor quality. Eventually,

910
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: Plowshare was shuttered, but the radioactive tritium gas under New

911
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: Mexico near Dulce remained.

912
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 3: Right.

913
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: So, now we've got this big fucking hole underground filled

914
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: with poison.

915
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: That's fun.

916
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 2: I just know that's out there. It's all a ticking

917
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 2: time bomb.

918
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.

919
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: So we've got this like death thing out in the

920
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: middle of New Mexico and we don't really know what

921
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 1: the fuck to do with it right now. What I'm

922
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: going to say is not confirmed, but I consider it

923
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: quite likely. Gabe Valdez eventually comes to the conclusion that

924
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: the cattle mutilations around Dulci were carried out by government

925
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: scientists studying the level of environmental contamination caused by the

926
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: plowshare tests. If this is the case, it's something that

927
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 1: is still somewhat under wraps, and military spooks would have

928
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: put overtime work in to hide it back in the

929
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. But it makes a lot of sense. They're

930
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: clearly like studying animals around there to see like if

931
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: they developing cancers, and they don't want people to know

932
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,399
Speaker 1: about it. I think this is actually a very very

933
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: likely explanation for at least a good chunk of the

934
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: cattle mutilations that are kind of found paid off, just

935
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: like curious Alien bought or fucking not bought scientists or whatever.

936
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

937
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 2: No, yeah, you did not disappoint. You did not disappoint.

938
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: That makes total sense. I won't know which scientist was like,

939
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 2: let make sure you get the asshole.

940
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 3: To get into that asshole.

941
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. Is that part of the experiments, sir?

942
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 3: I mean, why not.

943
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 2: It's for the there's the showmanship of what we're doing here.

944
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 3: We gotta get weird with it people.

945
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

946
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: So this brings us back to Paul Benowitz because he

947
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: meets Gabe Valdez at that cattle mutilation conference and he

948
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: actually approaches Valdez and Valdez, who is like both an

949
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 1: active state trooper who kind of becomes like in his

950
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: area that whenever there's like weird alien ship, his colleagues

951
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: are like, hey, Valdez, go look into this, like you're

952
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: the you're the you're the crazy guy, right, go check

953
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: this out.

954
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 2: And I just wanted to plant drugs, right.

955
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: I think Valdez really does want to be doing this

956
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: because this kind of becomes his whole life. And he

957
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: he's like as soon as this random like engineer is like, hey,

958
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 1: can I like write along with you to like look

959
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: at weird alien stuff, Valdez is like, absolutely, Man, come on,

960
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,479
Speaker 1: let's let's go trace down some fucking lights. And that's

961
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,439
Speaker 1: exactly what they do. They do a lot of ride

962
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: alongs together and they they've become fast friends. Bnowitz is

963
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: a believer and Valdez is an open minded seeker. Right,

964
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: you know that that's kind of the the minimum of

965
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: what I'd say he is.

966
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: What is their sexual tension like? And is this the

967
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 2: exact thing that X files is based on?

968
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: Oh they're fucking yeah, absolutely, this is what Mullian. No, No,

969
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: they're not. I have no evidence, but it would be funny.

970
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 1: This is like the fucking uh yeah, the moulderin Scully Origin. Yeah,

971
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: the sexual tension you could cut with a knife. Also,

972
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: Valdez does in fact get pregnant with an alien baby.

973
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: That's very much confirmed. His dad's an admiral. I think

974
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: his Schully's dad was an animal. Maybe he was a captain.

975
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: I know he called her Starbuck.

976
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 3: I just watched that episode the other night.

977
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: So speaking of Dana Scully boy, she looked good in

978
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: a suit. Anyway, here's some ads. We're back. Everyone in

979
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: that show looked good in this fucking skinner. Oh my god,

980
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: Like he was powering into that uniform.

981
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 3: Looked amazing.

982
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, No one talks about the fashion on the Xtra falls.

983
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, those those real pencil ties. Fucking molder.

984
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

985
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: Beautiful stuff, beautiful stuff. So in the winter of nineteen

986
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: seventy nine Innowitz and his wife experienced well not a

987
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: close encounter, but like an intermediate distance encounter at his

988
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: Albuquerque home. So his house is like right up to

989
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 1: the edge of the Kirtland Base, right, so he can

990
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: see like the base itself, and there's this mountain that

991
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: they had like hollowed out and filled with nukes, Like

992
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 1: he's looking at all of that from his fucking porch, right,

993
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 1: And he and his wife start to notice at night

994
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 1: blinking lights that are floating and moving independently in the

995
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: air over the base, and he is as a pilot,

996
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: He's like, this does not look like any kind of

997
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: aircraft I've ever seen, and in fact it is not

998
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: now again, not aliens. This is like drone projects. And

999
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: what becomes the stealth bomber is like, this is all

1000
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: the kind of shit they're testing out at Kirtland. He

1001
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,399
Speaker 1: is seeing things, and he is seeing things that there

1002
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: is no he does not have any kind of good

1003
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,919
Speaker 1: explanation for, right, because some of the things he's seeing

1004
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: are experimental craft that are capable of things that the

1005
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,720
Speaker 1: broader populace did not know we could do with aerial

1006
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: craft at this point in time. Now, because he's rich

1007
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: and because he is a professional engineer, he has a

1008
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: lot of equipment. He's got telephoto lenses, he's got a

1009
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: Super eight camera, and he's got a lot of like

1010
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: different advanced antenna that are capable of taking data on

1011
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: the stuff that he's seeing, particularly the signals that these

1012
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: different craft are putting out right, because they're all putting

1013
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: out radio signals, they've got transponders and shit, right, you

1014
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: want that on there, especially with an experimental craft. You

1015
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 1: never know if one of those is going to like

1016
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: wind up crashing into the ground. You want to be

1017
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,240
Speaker 1: able to grab it and shit. So he starts training

1018
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: this whole, not just his cameras, but all of these

1019
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 1: different in all these different electronic tools he has on

1020
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 1: the base while this is happening, and he's getting real

1021
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: data on something that is actually happening right now. The

1022
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: thing is, and this is there's an interesting documentary about

1023
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: this called Mirage Men, and it'll point out that Benowitz

1024
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: is a World War Two era veteran. He is a

1025
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: genuinely patriotic, helpful guy, and a lot of kind of

1026
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: early UFO dudes are like this. So there, his instinct

1027
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: is not the government is hiding something fucked up from me.

1028
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: His instinct is, I wonder if the government knows something

1029
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 1: clearly alien or otherworldly is happening above this base at

1030
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: this constitution, I need to tell them what I found.

1031
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 3: Right, he is not.

1032
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: Deeply patriotic, and this country is going to fuck him

1033
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: so hard.

1034
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 3: It does everyone who's deeply patriotic.

1035
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 2: Oh no, they're the bad guy. Don't do that. It's

1036
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: watching somebody walk upstairs in a horror movie.

1037
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: Well, and and Dodie, who's like going to be fucking

1038
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: with him for years over this is like you know

1039
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: World War Two era veterans. You just tell them, hey,

1040
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: we need you to help us with this, but you

1041
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: can't talk. You got to keep it quiet, as is

1042
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 1: national security. Of course, of course I trust the government. Sorry,

1043
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,320
Speaker 1: like I'm a child of the New Deal. I fought

1044
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,919
Speaker 1: for this country against the Nazis, you know, heroes. That's

1045
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: rightly right, and that that's where Paul's head is right

1046
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 1: in addition to literally believing in a lot of you know,

1047
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: Kookie a Ley, he is the government doesn't start that

1048
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 1: in him, right, he is down that road to an extent.

1049
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So the reality of the.

1050
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: Situation is that he and his wife had documented evidence

1051
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 1: of some kind of experimental plane, drone or other electronic gizmo.

1052
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: There were a number of different things at the because

1053
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 1: part of like this whole Kirtland base is like one

1054
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: of the things that's kind of in this whole area

1055
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: is Sandia National Laboratories, which at the time is the

1056
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 1: number one weapons development facility in the United States at

1057
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: least probably on the planet as a result of that,

1058
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: and like one of the things they're working on is

1059
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: early laser guided missiles, you know, in addition to other

1060
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: different kinds of projects. One possibility for some of what

1061
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,240
Speaker 1: Paul saw is there's this massive it's actually the largest

1062
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 1: freestanding wooden structure on Earth. Like even all of the

1063
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: bolts are would it's this massive tower that they were

1064
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: setting off like EMP blasts in order to test the

1065
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 1: resilience of planes to nuclear explosions. So because of that,

1066
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: you couldn't have any metal in the actual like thing itself.

1067
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 1: I don't understand the science, but that's just what people say,

1068
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: and that's apparently this was a thing that we did.

1069
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: Apparently it wasn't very effective because we weren't like the

1070
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: simulated blasts were not anywhere close to what a nuke

1071
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 1: would have done. But this is a thing that they

1072
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: were working on. There were lights on this thing. It

1073
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: looked weird and it gives off you're getting some weird

1074
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 1: fucking signals from this if you've got like different antennas

1075
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: and stuff. In addition to the other shit that they're

1076
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: fucking around with there. So I think somebody who was

1077
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: less inclined towards belief in, you know, aliens in the

1078
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 1: paranormal than Paul might have been like, yeah, there's probably

1079
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: some sort of weird cold war weapons system being developed

1080
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: there or whatever. Paul does not make that leap. He

1081
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 1: captures grainy footage of lights with his eight millimeter camera,

1082
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: and he uses his engineering knowledge design and construct a

1083
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 1: tracking antenna array on his roof. Adam go Wrightley notes

1084
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: quote Benowitz installed an arsenal of tracking antenna on his

1085
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: roof to record signals apparently emanating from these UFOs, which

1086
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: he claimed could DF direction find at distances of up

1087
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 1: to sixty miles. Alarmed that these craft posed a national

1088
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: security threat, Bennowhittz alerted Kirtland Base officials of his findings.

1089
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: Not long after Bennowitz's received what he believed were alien transmissions. Now,

1090
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: the reality of the situation, and again this is not

1091
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: entirely clear, but what's very likely happening is that, being

1092
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,359
Speaker 1: a good engineer, Paul has built an array that is

1093
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 1: actually receiving encrypted transmissions. Because the Air Force is experimenting

1094
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:33,879
Speaker 1: with classified broadcast technology to send out coding messages, and

1095
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: Paul is picking this shit up right, some of its

1096
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: great interference from the EMP set up, but he's actually

1097
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: almost certainly getting some actual encrypted stuff, right yeah, yeah, yeah.

1098
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: So he goes to the Air Force and he's like, hey, man,

1099
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: I've been like listening and taking footage and there's like

1100
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: aliens and they're like, yeah, okay, another alien guy. And

1101
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: then he's like, and I pointed my incredibly advanced antenna

1102
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 1: array at your base of secret military bullshit, and look

1103
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: at these coded transmissions. And they're like, oh fuck, oh fu,

1104
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: fuck this guy. This guy might actually have something that

1105
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: could be a problem.

1106
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 3: We really don't want him doing this, but please don't.

1107
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 2: Don't oh shit, oh fuck.

1108
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: So the head of base security spends about a minute

1109
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: on the phone with Paul and decides he's probably a crank,

1110
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,720
Speaker 1: but his status is the president of this legitimate lab

1111
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 1: and the fact that he's getting something and this this

1112
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: is potentially a risk to you know, this could expose

1113
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 1: some of the projects they're working on, right, and maybe

1114
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: Paul wouldn't even if Paul just publishes this stuff, being like, look,

1115
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: is evidence of aliens and it's actual encrypto transmissions. Well,

1116
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: Paul is going to publish that. Someone wouldn't be hard

1117
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 1: at all for some sort of like Russian agent to

1118
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: get that, and then maybe the Soviets crack this thing,

1119
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: and like, right, there's a number of ways this could

1120
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: be a problem, right, yeah.

1121
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, they could decide to dig a ditch with a nuke.

1122
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 2: So right, well, in fact, they do. I didn't bring

1123
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 2: this up, but the Soviets have their own plowshare program

1124
00:56:55,360 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 2: that also causes massive, massively poisons the planet. Everybody's doing

1125
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 2: it in Soviet Russia. Do you cut out the bears? Assholes?

1126
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 2: Is that what's happening in their fields? Instead?

1127
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: You just poisoned the largest freshwater body on the or

1128
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: one of the largest freshwater bodies on the planet, and

1129
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 1: then we're done. Everything's fine. So yeah, And it's also

1130
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: maybe it's not the transmissions that freak him out. Maybe

1131
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: it's that he's getting documentation about some of the craft.

1132
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: You know, we don't know exactly what it is, but

1133
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: like the Air Force doesn't just say, okay, you know,

1134
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: tell this guy, we're making a.

1135
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 3: Note of it.

1136
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: They're like, we should keep talking to this dude. We

1137
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: need to get one of our guys an agent from

1138
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: the Air Force Office of Special Investigations to befriend Paul

1139
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: Binowitz and see what he knows. And so the head

1140
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: of base Security, Colonel Ernest Edwards, picks an Air Force

1141
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: Office of Special Investigations agent named Richard Doty to do

1142
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: just that, and we will be talking about Dody and

1143
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: what happens next to our friend Paul in part do you.

1144
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 2: Clivinger? That's it? Anything you want to plug? Brandy? Yeah,

1145
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: thank you, This was awesome. I'm excited to hear part

1146
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 2: two for the listener. You guys can find me on

1147
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 2: every social media app at this point at brand Azle,

1148
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 2: I got the Blue Sky, I got the threads, I

1149
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 2: got the ex still formally known as Twitter. I've got

1150
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 2: read Note, I'm on there now. Who cares whatever, TikTok.

1151
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 2: It's deleted from my phone, but my account exists Instagram, Facebook, wherever,

1152
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 2: Brand Dazzle. Brandyposy dot com is my website for a

1153
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 2: bunch of stuff. I have an album coming out in

1154
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 2: March that actually recorded in Portland yet last year and

1155
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 2: yeah burn this records on Instagram and Lady the Ladies

1156
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 2: my podcast. Yeah, thanks guys.

1157
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: Excellent all right, everybody, Well until next time, you know,

1158
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: go force your way into an Air Force bace and

1159
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: just start taking photos.

1160
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 2: You know, Naruto run right on in.

1161
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, right into Air Area fifty one. They love it

1162
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: when people do that. It's a lot of fun for them.

1163
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 4: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1164
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 4: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1165
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 4: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1166
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1167
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 4: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1168
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 4: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

1169
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 4: at Behind the Bastards