1
00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:16,279
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young mom to

2
00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:23,279
Speaker 1: be found murdered, her unborn baby gone. How can that be?

3
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 1: The mommy's found murdered, the unborn baby is missing because

4
00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:36,360
Speaker 1: the baby has been surgically cut from mommy's stomach. It

5
00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:41,080
Speaker 1: sounds like a sci fi novel, a horror story, but

6
00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,560
Speaker 1: it's not. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank

7
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,720
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation at

8
00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,920
Speaker 1: series see eleven. In the last hours, a stunning development

9
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,560
Speaker 1: in the case of the so called Texas womb Raider.

10
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,480
Speaker 1: This woman, Hailer Parker, age twenty nine, old enough to

11
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,839
Speaker 1: know better, has been convicted in the murder of her

12
00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:15,399
Speaker 1: pregnant friend, Reagan Simmons Hancock. Reagan stabbed one hundred times

13
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:21,080
Speaker 1: by her so called friend attempting to steal her unborn baby.

14
00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,559
Speaker 1: Praxeln sage. Well, this jury got it right, But where

15
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,520
Speaker 1: did it all start? Police are investigating after a woman

16
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,640
Speaker 1: was found dead in her home after her unborn child

17
00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,600
Speaker 1: was removed from her womb Friday morning. Police in New Boston,

18
00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,959
Speaker 1: which is about twenty four miles west of Texarcanna, say

19
00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,560
Speaker 1: they responded around ten twenty in the morning the woman

20
00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,480
Speaker 1: was found dead inside the home. Right now, details are limited,

21
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,480
Speaker 1: but the New Boston Police Department and Texas Rangers are investigating.

22
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,080
Speaker 1: Jess Brooks makes a nine one one call to Texas

23
00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,360
Speaker 1: Police around ten twenty on a Friday morning in October.

24
00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,120
Speaker 1: Brooks has just found her daughter, Reagan Simmons Hancock, lying

25
00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,680
Speaker 1: face down in her bloody living room. According to police,

26
00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,080
Speaker 1: there is blood throughout the house, on the floor, furniture, walls, appliances,

27
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,360
Speaker 1: and other items. Hancock is found with a large cut

28
00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,800
Speaker 1: across her abdomen. Twenty one year old Hancock is nearly

29
00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,000
Speaker 1: eight months pregnant with her second child, but the child

30
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,600
Speaker 1: is gone. Hancock's three year old daughter, however, has been

31
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,080
Speaker 1: left alone with her dying mother. You were just here

32
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,320
Speaker 1: and our friends at CBS eleven in Dallas Fort Worth,

33
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,239
Speaker 1: and our friends at crime online dot com who jogged

34
00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,760
Speaker 1: my memory? I forgot that little tidbit. The three year

35
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:41,320
Speaker 1: old daughter is left in the home with dead mommy.

36
00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:48,960
Speaker 1: Mommy's tummy cut open and the baby gone. With me

37
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,920
Speaker 1: an all star panel to make sense of what we

38
00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,640
Speaker 1: know right now? First of all, to Jack's Miller, writer

39
00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,280
Speaker 1: with Oxygen dot Com, true crime author one book hell

40
00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,920
Speaker 1: in the Heartland, murder, meth and a case of two

41
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,919
Speaker 1: missing girls. Okay, with that said, Jackson Miller, I'm thinking

42
00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:12,240
Speaker 1: about Reagan Simmons Handcock. This takes place in New Boston, Texas.

43
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,160
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about New Boston, Texas? Well,

44
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,040
Speaker 1: New Boston's kind of like your typical Eastern Texas town.

45
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,000
Speaker 1: There's Chili, there's rodeos, there's Jesus, it's it's everything. Whoa, whoa,

46
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:27,560
Speaker 1: whoa wait wait, wait a minute. No offense to anybody

47
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,960
Speaker 1: talking or listening, but I for one do not want

48
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,960
Speaker 1: to hear Jesus Christ thrown in with a rodeo in

49
00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 1: Chili's restaurant. Okay, not kidding. So I just back it up,

50
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,920
Speaker 1: Jimmy about New Boston, Texas. So, it's just talent Eastern Texas.

51
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 1: It's about five thousand people, you know. Sorry, Jackson, I'm

52
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,560
Speaker 1: actually really not trying to give you a hard time.

53
00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,200
Speaker 1: It just sounds that way. What do you mean it's

54
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:59,480
Speaker 1: a typical East Texas town. I mean, I've been to Texas,

55
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,200
Speaker 1: but I certainly have not been all over Texas. That

56
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 1: would take a long time. What's an typical Eastern Texas town. Well,

57
00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,840
Speaker 1: I was just facing it on my own experience driving

58
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,520
Speaker 1: through eastern Texas. You know, New Boston is a town

59
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,320
Speaker 1: with rodeos and chili cookoffs and former markets. It's about

60
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,919
Speaker 1: five thousand people. That sounds pretty good to me. Yeah.

61
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,280
Speaker 1: I love a good rodeo and I love a good

62
00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,800
Speaker 1: chili cookoff. That's one of the reasons I belonged to

63
00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 1: my little United Methodist churches. We have chili cookoffs all

64
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,840
Speaker 1: the time. So what's the population? I mean, Oh, I'm sorry,

65
00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,360
Speaker 1: you just said about five thousand. So this is a

66
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,039
Speaker 1: small town. I'm asking for a reason. I'm not just

67
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,160
Speaker 1: giving you a hard time. Cheryl McCollum joining me, forensics expert,

68
00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 1: founder of Cold Case Research Institute. You can find her

69
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,880
Speaker 1: a cold case crimes dot org. This is not a

70
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 1: cold case, but Cheryl and I go way back. We

71
00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,800
Speaker 1: have different accounts of how we first met. She claims

72
00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,920
Speaker 1: it was at three am, not at a bar crime scene.

73
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,880
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum. The reason I'm grilling Jack's miller on where

74
00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,920
Speaker 1: the incident happened, and we're talking about a young pregnant

75
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:16,160
Speaker 1: mom dead where their stomach sliced open, it's because the

76
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:22,760
Speaker 1: smaller the population, the easier it should be logically speaking,

77
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 1: to find the perp. Explain, well, your suspect pool is

78
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,680
Speaker 1: going to be very small. If you've only got five

79
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,280
Speaker 1: thousand people and half for women, you're already down to

80
00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 1: only twenty five hundred people. And then you've got to

81
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,600
Speaker 1: take the age you know, eighty and above and you

82
00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,839
Speaker 1: know maybe a sixteen and below. You're looking at a

83
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,200
Speaker 1: very small group of people that might be involved here.

84
00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,839
Speaker 1: What we're also looking at is where the home was located.

85
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,440
Speaker 1: If it was way out in a rural area, or

86
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,880
Speaker 1: was it in a neighborhood. Is that neighborhood known for

87
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,039
Speaker 1: break ins or anything like that, or was it a

88
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,000
Speaker 1: really safe place to be? How active was she in

89
00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,279
Speaker 1: the community? Church, work, bringing and things of that nature.

90
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 1: So again, your saspeg pool here is going to be

91
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,120
Speaker 1: very small. You know what been about that? Yes you can,

92
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:08,839
Speaker 1: but I want to give Chryle I think the last

93
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,960
Speaker 1: time she was with us, I cuta might not once,

94
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,480
Speaker 1: but twice. I agree with everything you just said, especially

95
00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,000
Speaker 1: about church and work because let's just say she worked

96
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 1: at the mall. Okay, I used to work at the mall.

97
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,599
Speaker 1: At Sears, you come in contact with a lot of people,

98
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,039
Speaker 1: and a lot of people see you that you don't

99
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 1: realize are seeing you. And another thing about New Boston

100
00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,800
Speaker 1: that Jackson Miller from Austin dot Com is telling us, Yes,

101
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,720
Speaker 1: it's a small town of five thousand, but how do

102
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,840
Speaker 1: I know how many people in the metro area come

103
00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:48,480
Speaker 1: there to go to o' charlies and Chilies and Applebee's

104
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,919
Speaker 1: and the mall or whatever else might be there. I

105
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,839
Speaker 1: know in my county seat, Big County making we lived

106
00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,880
Speaker 1: far far outside of the county seat, which is make

107
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,080
Speaker 1: out in rural Bib County, unincorporated Bib County. We had

108
00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,680
Speaker 1: a thirty minute drive just to get to McDonald's, so

109
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,479
Speaker 1: that was for you and far between. But when you

110
00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,040
Speaker 1: take into account there's five thousand people living Indy Boston

111
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,560
Speaker 1: all around it, people could be coming in and depending

112
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,520
Speaker 1: on where she went to church and where she worked

113
00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,240
Speaker 1: and her involvement in the community, like Cheryl mccollm was

114
00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 1: just saying, many more people could have seen her and

115
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,320
Speaker 1: identified her. And then we've gotten the Internet. On top

116
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,520
Speaker 1: of that. Jump in dodgr Bethany, let me ensure you, Bethany,

117
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:35,240
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst joining us out

118
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,760
Speaker 1: of LA. You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall

119
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,160
Speaker 1: dot com. She's a star in the new Netflix showed

120
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 1: Bleeding Empire. Hit me, Hey, Nancy, you already stole my thunder.

121
00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,120
Speaker 1: I was about to mention the internet. This is a

122
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,720
Speaker 1: twenty one year old mom, and so we have to

123
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,200
Speaker 1: include in the suspect pull her internet presence. Did she

124
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,840
Speaker 1: have Facebook, did she have Instagram? Did she have Twitter?

125
00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,240
Speaker 1: And what were her relationships outside to that small community.

126
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,120
Speaker 1: I know a lot of young people who grow up

127
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,240
Speaker 1: in small communities are desperate to have a broader reach.

128
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,680
Speaker 1: They want to know about the big cities. They want

129
00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,400
Speaker 1: to know about um celebrity life. They want to know

130
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,560
Speaker 1: who lives in other counties. And so we don't know

131
00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 1: was she married, was she single? Um? Was she dating?

132
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,880
Speaker 1: Was she dating somebody online? Had she met somebody online?

133
00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 1: So these are other factors we would want to look at.

134
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,480
Speaker 1: You know, you said that if you work like a

135
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,640
Speaker 1: Charlie's or fears that other people might camp come in

136
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:38,079
Speaker 1: and know Charlie's Oh oh, Charlie okay, hey oh, I'm

137
00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 1: gonna just put you and Jack's Miller in the same

138
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:48,200
Speaker 1: pot and let you stew. Okay, Jesus and Chilies. Yeah,

139
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,000
Speaker 1: I'm on you. I am on you like a cheap

140
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:56,040
Speaker 1: sea girl. The two even though chie in Southern Charlies. Well,

141
00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,320
Speaker 1: if you have never been to another Charlie's, you're missing

142
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,800
Speaker 1: the best yeast rolls were made. So what were you

143
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,120
Speaker 1: saying about Oh Charlie's. Well, what I was saying about

144
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,839
Speaker 1: Oh Charlie's is that it is a good point that

145
00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: if you work in an establishment like that, if you

146
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,000
Speaker 1: hang out there, people might come in and know you

147
00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,040
Speaker 1: and recognize you, but you do not remember them. But

148
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,040
Speaker 1: sometimes it's the same with the Internet. If you're accepting

149
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 1: every single friend request, if you put your photos and

150
00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,520
Speaker 1: your videos out there, a lot of people may have

151
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:29,240
Speaker 1: become attached to her where she had no relationship with them. Okay,

152
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,640
Speaker 1: you know, doctor Bethany, when you were talking about the Internet,

153
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,520
Speaker 1: you mentioned Facebook, you mentioned Instant I think you did.

154
00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,640
Speaker 1: I know you mentioned Twitter, but you know what you

155
00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:46,679
Speaker 1: didn't mention? Be real? Be real, be real. I get

156
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,720
Speaker 1: all my Internet knowledge from my fourteen year old twins.

157
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,880
Speaker 1: That's the new thing. Be real. Okay. You take a

158
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:59,679
Speaker 1: quick video or picture of yourself and supposedly without any

159
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,760
Speaker 1: hair and makeup in real life, and you post it.

160
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,760
Speaker 1: You got to get on that. Dr Bethany. You know

161
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,920
Speaker 1: Del Carson joined me, high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville

162
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,800
Speaker 1: and former fed with the FBI, author of a rest

163
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,800
Speaker 1: proof yourself. You can find him Adella carsonal Law dot com.

164
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 1: Dell what we're doing right now, it reminds me so

165
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:24,120
Speaker 1: much of my years as a prosecutor. I like to

166
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 1: go up to the Appellate Division where the brain trust was.

167
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,120
Speaker 1: I actually got to write appeals for many years as well,

168
00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:36,360
Speaker 1: and talk at lunch or that'd always be sitting around

169
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 1: at a big long table and in the DA's office.

170
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,440
Speaker 1: We had our own set of you know OCGA Official

171
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,040
Speaker 1: Code of Georgia initated, the Georgia Supreme Courts, a Southeastern

172
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,080
Speaker 1: case law, the Georgia Appellate Court rulings, so they could

173
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,920
Speaker 1: do their research sitting right there instead of going to

174
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,160
Speaker 1: the law library. I would love going up there and

175
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,920
Speaker 1: getting into with them about whatever case I was getting

176
00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,200
Speaker 1: ready when I had time. What we're doing right now,

177
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:11,800
Speaker 1: talking about the area, the oh Charlie's, the chilies, where

178
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,440
Speaker 1: she worked, where she went to school, the crime rate,

179
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:19,920
Speaker 1: the location. All that matters. It's not just idle chit chat.

180
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 1: It's how you work a case if you got any

181
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,680
Speaker 1: brains anyway. But the most important thing we're all kind

182
00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,840
Speaker 1: of missing, and that is that ed child is missing.

183
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,160
Speaker 1: And there's only in my book, there's only one way

184
00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,040
Speaker 1: this actually happens. And as an agent and as a

185
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,120
Speaker 1: police officer, I've handled cases just like this, and it

186
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,160
Speaker 1: can only mean one thing. Somebody wanted that child. They

187
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,559
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily care whether the mother died or not. They

188
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:54,520
Speaker 1: wanted the child. That's the trail you have to follow. Hey,

189
00:11:55,280 --> 00:12:00,920
Speaker 1: Dale Carson, everybody jump in. Also in me, Doctor Michelle Dupree, pathologists,

190
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,960
Speaker 1: medical examiner, and author of Homocide Investigation Field Guide, Everybody

191
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,880
Speaker 1: jump in. I remember sitting out in It's like a

192
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,240
Speaker 1: church in a courtroom. Sometimes you've got all the state's

193
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,360
Speaker 1: witnesses and state supporters, victims family supporters on one side,

194
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,680
Speaker 1: and all the defendant's family and supporters on the other side,

195
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,600
Speaker 1: and the press somewhere in the mix. Like in a

196
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,480
Speaker 1: church at a wedding, the bride side is on one

197
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,199
Speaker 1: side and the grim's relatives are on the other side.

198
00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,560
Speaker 1: I will never forget in the Scott Peterson trial. When

199
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:40,040
Speaker 1: Mark gary Goes blurted something out about maybe Lacy was

200
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,920
Speaker 1: kidnapped by a woman who wanted to cut up in

201
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:47,079
Speaker 1: her stomach and steal baby Connor. I nearly fell off

202
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,720
Speaker 1: my chair. I got I really mean look from the

203
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,400
Speaker 1: sheriff too. She was just dying to throw somebody out

204
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,720
Speaker 1: of the courtroom. I remember thinking how far fetched that was,

205
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: and actually it's highly statistically unlikely. And of course Connor

206
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,320
Speaker 1: was found with Lacy in a twenty four hour cycle

207
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,920
Speaker 1: when they washed up on the San Francisco Bay shore,

208
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 1: so that didn't happen in that case. But Garagos was

209
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,800
Speaker 1: not half wrong, right. I gotta give the devil's due,

210
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,880
Speaker 1: because we are seeing this more and more and more

211
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,680
Speaker 1: where a mother is actually murdered and sliced open to

212
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,200
Speaker 1: get the baby. Take a listen to our friends at

213
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,960
Speaker 1: Katie a l New evidence suggest the victim was not

214
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,120
Speaker 1: killed the way investigators originally believed. Originally, twenty one year

215
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 1: old Raagan Simmons Hancock was believed to have died from

216
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,560
Speaker 1: massive blood loss due to slashing and cutting. A scalpel

217
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,960
Speaker 1: was later recovered from her neck during an autopsy. According

218
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,120
Speaker 1: to an examiner hired by the state. Hancock died from

219
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,760
Speaker 1: being strangled rather than being cut. Okay, hold on straight

220
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,439
Speaker 1: out to Jack Smeller, our special guest joining us from

221
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:04,480
Speaker 1: Oxygen dot com. She's a true crime author. Jack's you

222
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,640
Speaker 1: see a mom lying in the floor with her dad covered,

223
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,840
Speaker 1: the whole area covered in crime scene, her three year

224
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,600
Speaker 1: old little girl sitting with mommy god knows how long,

225
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,560
Speaker 1: and her baby having been cut out of her stomach. Zam,

226
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,520
Speaker 1: we are just learning a scalpel was later recovered from

227
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:30,240
Speaker 1: her neck daring an autopsy. I mean, I would have

228
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,360
Speaker 1: thought the scalpel would be used to cut her tummy open,

229
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,920
Speaker 1: but her net was sliced as well. It's it's it's

230
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,400
Speaker 1: really a really horrific her rick to crime. There's there's

231
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,160
Speaker 1: blood everywhere, you know. Now they're saying that she was strangled.

232
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,560
Speaker 1: You know, she had the scalpel in her neck, and

233
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,240
Speaker 1: you know, just just to put it a little bit

234
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,720
Speaker 1: in a context, here, we have a killer who's out there.

235
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,120
Speaker 1: But remember New Boston's very close to three state borders.

236
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,800
Speaker 1: It's not far from Oklahoma, it's not far from Arkansas,

237
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 1: and it's not far from Louisiana. So so that's another

238
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,280
Speaker 1: thing to consider too, with that whoever did this, it

239
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,920
Speaker 1: might be out of the seat by now. Okay, Jack's

240
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:12,680
Speaker 1: miller just changed the whole equation right there. When you

241
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 1: were talking about Eastern Texas before I got off on

242
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,840
Speaker 1: my chili, your ant wasn't thinking about the significance of

243
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,360
Speaker 1: what you just said. I mean to me, East Texas.

244
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,400
Speaker 1: Texas is so big. I didn't realize how close to

245
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,040
Speaker 1: the border it was to three states. And you know,

246
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 1: and no fault of theirs. Police normally don't like the

247
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,840
Speaker 1: Texas police are going to be looking. They're not going

248
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,680
Speaker 1: to call Arkansas and Oklahoma go hey, this just happened.

249
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:46,320
Speaker 1: It's the cross border communication between law enforcement is not

250
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,760
Speaker 1: great through no fault of their own. And I can't

251
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 1: stress that enough. Cheryl, jump in on that. Nancy. Here's

252
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,160
Speaker 1: the thing that just leads out at me more than

253
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 1: anything else, and that's when law enforcement in their affidavit

254
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 1: put there blood on the floor, furniture, walls, and appliances.

255
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,720
Speaker 1: The word appliance. Nobody's going to keep their toaster in

256
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 1: the living room, which is where the victim was found.

257
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,040
Speaker 1: That means this either started in the kitchen or another room.

258
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,600
Speaker 1: And went throughout the house. She was stabbed over one

259
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:24,160
Speaker 1: hundred times, was cut out of her, A hammer was

260
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 1: used to bludge in her head. Any one of these things,

261
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,840
Speaker 1: the scapel in the neck, the hammer blodge into her head,

262
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,400
Speaker 1: the hundred stab wounds, the baby being cut from her,

263
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,600
Speaker 1: any of those things would have killed her. This was

264
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 1: not a quick, clean easy I'm going to knock her out,

265
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,200
Speaker 1: cut the baby, and I'm out. You know what, Cheryl,

266
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,080
Speaker 1: the way you just described that, really, I'm just thinking, Cheryl,

267
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 1: remember and I was pregnant, Remember you seeing that big

268
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,960
Speaker 1: baby shower in Atlanta, And there at the end, I

269
00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,840
Speaker 1: mean I could barely walk. I didn't realize because I

270
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,640
Speaker 1: couldn't breathe. I didn't realize what bad shape I was

271
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,399
Speaker 1: with all those blood clots. And I'm just thinking of

272
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,960
Speaker 1: this mom, she's eight months pregnant. Describe that same one

273
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,880
Speaker 1: more time, Sharyl McCollum. Blood was on the floor, furniture, walls,

274
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,679
Speaker 1: and appliances. So there was blood throughout the house. So

275
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: that tells you we'd like cast off patterns, maybe chasing

276
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,480
Speaker 1: her with a weapon that already had blood on it.

277
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,679
Speaker 1: It paints a very sinister picture because again This was

278
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:50,239
Speaker 1: not fast. This was a horrific scene. Crime stories with

279
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. One hundred stab wounds, a scalpel still in

280
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,160
Speaker 1: the victim's neck removed at autopsy, and now we find

281
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 1: out all the stabs are not even the cod cause

282
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:12,480
Speaker 1: of death. Doctor Michelle Dupre joining me, Pathologists, medical examiner,

283
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,440
Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Okay, doctor Dupree, jump

284
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 1: in Andancy, this was absolutely overkill. I mean, there's just

285
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 1: no other way to explain it. Three different types of

286
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 1: manners or causes of death, you know, strangulation, the bludgeoning

287
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,440
Speaker 1: with the hammer, and a hundred stablins. This is crazy.

288
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 1: This was frenetic. This was just absolutely overkill. And you

289
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:42,680
Speaker 1: know what else is interesting to you, Doctor Bethanie Marshall, psychoanist,

290
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,360
Speaker 1: joining us out of LA. Now that I hear doctor

291
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:52,440
Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree and Michelle Cheryl McCollum describing the crime scene

292
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 1: and Jacks as well from oxygen, There's no way this

293
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 1: little girl, the three year old, didn't see problem the

294
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 1: whole thing. Mommy running from room to room, screaming. Blood

295
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 1: in the back, blood in the kitchen, on the appliance's,

296
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 1: blood on furniture, in the floor, Nancy, I had kind

297
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,400
Speaker 1: of like a fantasy or a day dream or a

298
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,879
Speaker 1: guess hy thought this this whatever the right word is

299
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,920
Speaker 1: about how this happened. Whoever killed this poor twenty one

300
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 1: year old pregnant mom with little three year old and

301
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 1: ran after her from room to room must have been

302
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 1: romancing this mother in some way. I don't mean in

303
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,880
Speaker 1: a sexual romantic way, but I mean must have befriended her.

304
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 1: Must have come to the front door with an agenda,

305
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,920
Speaker 1: sat down, had tea, had coffee, whatever, was chatting with her.

306
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,679
Speaker 1: And whoever did this was either extraordinarily angry or was

307
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 1: an amateur and was just desperate for any way to

308
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,639
Speaker 1: kill this mom and get access to the fetus. So

309
00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,360
Speaker 1: when you think of chasing her from room to room,

310
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 1: the scalpel in the neck over a hundred stab marks

311
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,679
Speaker 1: was this was a crime that was preplanned from the

312
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 1: standpoint that the perpetrator wanted to kill the mother and

313
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 1: gain access to the baby. But this person, the perpetrator,

314
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 1: did not know how to kill a human being. The

315
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,719
Speaker 1: perpetrator will tried one thing, they tried another, and then another.

316
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 1: This poor pregnant woman is running from room to room

317
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: and this is a late stage pregnancy, and the perpetrator

318
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 1: is just you know, it's thinking about one way to

319
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: kill her, and when that doesn't work, she thinks about

320
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 1: another way, you know, grabbing appliances, throwing her against the wall,

321
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 1: stabbing her. Not only is it brutal, but it does

322
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 1: a doctor Dupreya is right. The word frenetic, overkill, ill, strategized, amateur.

323
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: It has a very crazy quality. I think more of

324
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 1: a frenzy. That's what I'm thinking about. Guys, killer and

325
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 1: just organized. Killers are not organized. They don't plan things.

326
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 1: The only thing that happened here is they've gotten away.

327
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 1: That's the one thing that's happened. And if you're going

328
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 1: to take a child from a mother's womb, you want

329
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,920
Speaker 1: to keep the mother alive as long as you can

330
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 1: to secure the life of the child. And that did

331
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: not happen here, because, as you point out, anger and

332
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 1: hostility was at a maximum level when this event transpired.

333
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 1: You know, I gotta jump in. Okay, it does appear

334
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 1: amateurs to me because again, this killer left behind weapons,

335
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 1: left behind the victim's body, and left behind a witness.

336
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: A three year old can give a lot of information. Furthermore,

337
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 1: whoever did this had to have some pre planning. You're

338
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 1: going to show up somewhere with a newborn. There's a backstory,

339
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: so there was premeditation. You're absolutely right. It's still disorganized,

340
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 1: and disorganized means that very thing that they leave evidence

341
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 1: that there's no there maybe preptraining actual course that there's disorganization,

342
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 1: which is clearly evident from the scene that we hear about. Guys,

343
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 1: when you are analyzing any case, you're trying to put

344
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: all the pieces of the puzzle together. The main piece

345
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: of the puzzle, it's not necessarily the crime scene, but

346
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: it's the victim that is the main piece of your puzzle.

347
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at k SLA. The

348
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 1: twenty one year old was wife to Homer Hancock and

349
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: mom to three year old Kenley Greece, and she was

350
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: also expecting another baby, girl, who she named Braxlin Sage.

351
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: She became a mother early, but after she had Kenley,

352
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: she went on to get her high school diploma and

353
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: she was aspiring to eventually get in She was going

354
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: to start taking classes again in the spring, and she

355
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 1: wanted to go into nursing eventually. Never quit smiling, never

356
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: quit trying and moving on and tackling the next hurdle.

357
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 1: The most beautiful person, her spirit, her personality, everything about

358
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: her was beautiful. A piece of us is gone now.

359
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 1: Emily Simmons says, her sister Reagan is the glue that

360
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: keeps her family together. She always held us close, and

361
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 1: she's holding us closer now. For now, the family is

362
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: leaning on their feet. Just prayers. All we can ask

363
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: for is prayer. Everywhere I look, I see her, our

364
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: friends at KSLA speaking to family members in their grief.

365
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: And you know, doctor Bethany, it's not just grief. It's

366
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: not just suddenly losing someone so young. And you know,

367
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, you gotta hand it to this, this lady victim, Reagan,

368
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 1: she has a baby, and she chooses to keep the baby.

369
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: She's te mom, and she goes after having the baby,

370
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: goes back and finishes her high school degree and then

371
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: is starting nursing classes in the spring. I mean, this

372
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: woman is amazing, Nancy, She's remarkable. And in terms of

373
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: the family and the aftermath of this tragedy, you know,

374
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 1: one of the definitions of trauma is when the unimaginable

375
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: happens as much as we're talking about this and trying

376
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: to make sense of it. It's still the unimaginable. There's

377
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: no way for this family to process. And as I

378
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: said so many times on your show, grieving is not

379
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: just recognizing the loss of the present in the past.

380
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: It's realizing that you'll never have a future with this person.

381
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: They'll never see her mother, the unborn baby, raised, her

382
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: three year old, go on to become a professional nurse,

383
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: and they'll never see her get married, they'll never see

384
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: her graduation. So we have to come to terms with

385
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: the future. And you know, Nancy, this perpetrator not only

386
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: sold the life of a mother and an unborn baby,

387
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: think of all the patients that this young mother was

388
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: going to help as a nurse. She's robbed society of

389
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: a very important person as well. So the search is on.

390
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: Police make public the name of the victim. In the

391
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: community is in shock and a reeling. Women are afraid.

392
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: No one knows how to make sense of it. Hey

393
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: does anybody on this panel? Of course, you do remember

394
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: the Timothy mcveay case. Okay, city bomber. Okay, he murdered

395
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: volumes of people. Remember it was in the Alfred Murray building.

396
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: In Oklahoma City, and there was a nursery in that

397
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: building by the way that he bombed. And Cheryl, do

398
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: you remember the coin kieting the coincidence of how he

399
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: was caught? Do you remember how he was caught? Please

400
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: say nothing. I believe I can never stump you woman,

401
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: Go ahead, I believe it was a traffic sky. Yes,

402
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: it was. Tell light, Tell light, tell light, you know,

403
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: I'll tell. Lights are made up of like five, seven,

404
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: eight little pieces of red and one of those little

405
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: pieces was out and they pulled him over and they

406
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: found all sorts of evidence of the bombing. So the

407
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: search is on for the killer of this young mom,

408
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 1: Reagan Simmons, handcocked just twenty one years old. And then

409
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: what a coinkie dink a coincidence? Take listen to our

410
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: friends at crime Online. A Texas State trooper pulls over

411
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: a car for speeding and inside he finds Taylor Parker

412
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: giving CPR to a newborn Barker tells the trooper that

413
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: she has just given birth on the side of the road,

414
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: but the baby isn't breathing. The trooper says he could

415
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: an umbilical cord connected to the infant coming out of

416
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: the woman's pants. Parker and the newborn are rushed by

417
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 1: life net ems to McCurtain Memorial Hospital in Idabelle, Oklahoma,

418
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: where the baby dies. And it's also where Parker, who

419
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: has seemingly just given birth, refuses to be checked out

420
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: by doctors. Well, Sanaloni, So what we just heard from

421
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: our friends at crime Online. Texas State trooper pulls over

422
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: a vehicle for speeding, finds a woman, twenty nine year

423
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: old Taylor Parker, giving CPR to an infant. She says

424
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: she just gave birth on the side of the road,

425
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: but the baby's not breathing. The trooper could see the

426
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: umbilical cord still connected to the infant coming out of

427
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: Parker's pants. Okay, wait, wait, I'm taking all this in

428
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: rush her to the hospital, where she refuses to be

429
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: examined by doctors. Jackson Miller joining me, investigative reporter with

430
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 1: Oxygen dot Com and true crime author, tell me about

431
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: the tree for pulling over this woman? What do we know?

432
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: So this happened in dacalb, Texas, and you know, it's

433
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: like you said, she was speeding and it was around

434
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: that same time, like within minutes that the victim's mother

435
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: had called policing. I just found my daughter. She's dead.

436
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: There's blood everywhere. And then this is kind of happening simultaneously,

437
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: and pretty much Taylor has the baby on her lap.

438
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: She's like, my baby's not breathing. I just gave birth

439
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: on the side of the road. And she went as

440
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: far as to put the babies or the mother's placenta

441
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: down her pants. Okay, walk and stop, repeat very slowly

442
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: for us, Chili aiding, Oh, Charlie loving bunch, what did

443
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: you just say about the placenta. So when the state

444
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: trooper own Taylor with the baby on her lap, she says,

445
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: I just gave birth. And of course, you know know

446
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: that Taylor had stuffed the mother's placenta, Reagan placenta down

447
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: her trousers to keep up with appearances. Okay, you know,

448
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: believe it or not, Doctor Michel Dupree, A lot of

449
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: people don't know what a placenta is. Explain, well, the placenta.

450
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: It's actually what nourishes and feeds the baby. It's attached

451
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: to the inside of the mother's uterus and of course

452
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: attached by unbocal cord to the fetus. And that's what

453
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: delivers blood and everything, all the nourishment. What does it

454
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: look like. It looks like a disk, probably about twelve

455
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: or so inches in diameter. It's maybe an incher inch

456
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: in a half stick, and it's sort of spongy, and

457
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: it's spongey because it's full of blood. This would be

458
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: very messy, very very very messy. Where is it inside

459
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,719
Speaker 1: the womb? So inside the womb, it is inside the uterus,

460
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: and it is attached usually to the posterior wall of

461
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: the uterus itself, and the umbilical cord connects to it

462
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: or through it, it connects to it. So one end

463
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: of the umbilical cord is connected to the baby, one

464
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: end of the umbilical cord is connected to the placenta,

465
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: and the placenta is attached on the other side to

466
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: the posterior wall of the uterus. Time stories with Nancy

467
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: Grace and Jack's Miller from a dot com. You're telling

468
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: me basically, bloody blanket. The placenta is stuffed down Taylor

469
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: Parker's pants. That's correct. The state trooper noted that the

470
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: umbilical cord was still in her trowers, and of course

471
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,719
Speaker 1: that it would still be attached to the placenta, you know,

472
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: which would be natural if this was her child. You know,

473
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: you of her baby, you deliver the placenta soon after.

474
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: But then they took her to the hospital via ambulance,

475
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: and she refused to have an examination. Doctor Bethany Marshall

476
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: or psychoanalyst Beverly Hills, don't tune up about insanity, don't

477
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: because this woman had the cunning to try to trick

478
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: the state traper by shoving the umbilical cord and the

479
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: placenta down her own pants. Another woman's child's a millical

480
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: chord and placenta to pull off her lie stuffed it

481
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: down her own pants. Nancy, isn't this what we see

482
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: in all criminals? They don't see in themselves what we

483
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: see in them. I mean, she's not psychiatrically Hill, she's

484
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: not mentally ill, but she is really disturbed the fact

485
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: that she stuff the placenta into her pants. She's driving

486
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: to the hospital, but she doesn't think that she'll be

487
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: subjected to an examination. She cuts the baby out of

488
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: the twenty one year old mother's body with a scalpel

489
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: I believe, or a nice some sort of instrument, But

490
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: she doesn't think she's actually harming the baby, not only

491
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: the physical harm, but the psychological harm of that kind

492
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: of a traumatic birth. I mean, this is the mother

493
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: who really I'm sorry I said mother, I mean a

494
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: potential mother. This is somebody who wants to be a

495
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: mother so badly that she has this tunneling effect that

496
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: all she can think of is getting access to the baby.

497
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: But she's not thinking about any other factor in terms of,

498
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: you know, the medical aspect, the biological aspects, the survival

499
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: of the infant. Can you imagine her being a mother

500
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: in real wife? What a disaster? Actually, she had children,

501
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, this woman had children. She knows

502
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: what it's like to be pregnant. So what more And

503
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that upthday because this is a

504
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: whole another layer of subject And to me, it makes

505
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,719
Speaker 1: her even more evil because she knows what the victim

506
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: was going through into pregnancy. She had children, So why

507
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: why this? Why another child? Does she need another child

508
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: so desperately? Why a baby? Why murder to get a baby? Well,

509
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at k SLA Attorneys

510
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: said Parker committed the crimes not because she wanted a baby,

511
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: but because she did not want to lose her boyfriend,

512
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: Parker was not able to carry a child because of

513
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: a hysterectomy. Parker offered them a hundred thousand dollars to

514
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: be a Sarah Good mother. Parker ordered from the internet

515
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: a suit which made her look pregnant, feaking that condition

516
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: for nearly ten months, all the while hunting for a victim. Okay,

517
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: I got to let that so kill. Let that percolate

518
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: for a moment. She did not want to lose her boyfriend,

519
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: did not tell him she had had a hysterect to me,

520
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: offer friends one hundred thousand dollars to be a surrogant mother,

521
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: and ordered an internet pregnancy suit, all the while hunting

522
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: for a victim. Well number one, I guess she's lost

523
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: her boyfriend now. But Cheryl McCollum, can you imagine a

524
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 1: ten month search for just the right pregnant victim, Nancy,

525
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back to what I started a

526
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: little while ago, and that's this premeditation. This person had

527
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: to lie about being pregnant. So did she have a

528
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: fake pregnancy test? Did she make fake doctor's appointments? At

529
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: what extent did she go to again. Doctor Marshall mentioned

530
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: social media. She took the social media? Did she gain weight?

531
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: The thing you just played said that she had one

532
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: of those fake baby momps. Oh, there's so much more.

533
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: Cheryl Jackson Miller joining me from auction dot Com. Isn't

534
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: it true? She is accused of faking ultrasounds and even

535
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: having a gender reveal party. It was not she went

536
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: to such great length. She had this this big gender

537
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: reveal everything you just said, and then beyond that, on

538
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 1: the day that she went to the hospital with with

539
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 1: this baby, she she had her boyfriend. He was supposed

540
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: to come because she said, oh, I'm going to be

541
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: induced into labor. So he was going to the hospital

542
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: thinking that she was going to deliver her baby. And

543
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: can he add Danny knows she's been pregnant for ten months. Well,

544
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: you know, I guess, I guess he had believed that.

545
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: And on top of that, she allegedly was going to

546
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: she she had planned to do this bomb threat at

547
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: the hospital, and I guess that was a way to

548
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: kind of keep up, you know, with with concealing this

549
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: big secret, white white, white white what bomb threat? Yes,

550
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: there was a bomb threat that was just release um.

551
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,959
Speaker 1: She was going to make a bomb threat to keep

552
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: this this big baby thing a secret allegedly. I mean,

553
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: when you look at her, I'm looking at her Facebook photo,

554
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: she just she's gorgeous. She's just okay. The evil that

555
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: can lurk in the mind of a human is amazing

556
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: to me. Guys, take a listen. What more we know

557
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: about her plotting and scheming? Take a listen? Hour cut

558
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: fourteen our friends from Katie a L. One friend testified

559
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: about how Parker was obsessed with her pregnancy. This afternoon.

560
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 1: The prosecution showed numerous posts on Parker's Facebook page where

561
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: she claimed to be pregnant and shared a picture and

562
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: shared pictures of a baby bump and a gender reveal party.

563
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: The jury also saw evidence in her testimony Shoan Parker

564
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 1: was Facebook friends went the victim, Aha, there's a connection.

565
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: Chela Parker became Facebook friends with the pregnant mom Reagan Simmons,

566
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: Hancock and more from Katie a l Listen. Data from

567
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: her devices and internet searches showed she ordered a fake

568
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: baby belly in a customized fake ultrasound scheme in online

569
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: and posted dozens of baby belly photos and selfies. She

570
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: starked ob clinics in East Texas and Shreveport when investigator

571
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: that she was looking for places where she could find

572
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 1: pregnant women and even looked up license plates of patients

573
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 1: coming out of clinics as her fake due day grew closer.

574
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: She also searched online for information on private adoptions and

575
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: out of hospital birth certificates. In the days before the murder,

576
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: she watched videos about how to do a C section,

577
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: examine a newborn, and search for where Reagan Simmons lived

578
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: and the hours before the murder, cell phone data showed

579
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: Parker used a spoof cell phone number to contact Reagan Hancock. Okay,

580
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: deal Carson, high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and former

581
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: FBI agent. That's a lot of evidence, Deal Carson. Oh,

582
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: it is. And it also demonstrates that they were active

583
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: on the Internet. So that means that the use of

584
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 1: cell phone data, the juice of other mechanisms to establish

585
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: where people were at a certain time is going to

586
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: be an immense value to the investigation. As you're comment

587
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: about boys not understanding that ten months, I had a

588
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 1: case years ago in eighty seven involving a similar matter

589
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,959
Speaker 1: where a fellow was both believed that his girlfriend, who

590
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: actually did what we're talking about here essentially was in

591
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: fact didn't know. I mean, boys don't calculate like women

592
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: do when it comes to those months. So you're just

593
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: you really don't know and you don't understand. So these

594
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: men typically know nothing about what's really going on, and

595
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: typically they don't get charged in these kinds of cases.

596
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: How this guy, I didn't notice that that was a fake?

597
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: Pregnant seat bumps on Amazon Jump in, Doctor Bethany, Probably

598
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: these cases, which you said earlier in the show, are

599
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: statistically rare, often follow a common pattern. You usually have

600
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: a woman who sometimes she has children, sometimes she doesn't,

601
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: who needs a love object, wants to hold on to

602
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: the love of a man. She imagines that as she

603
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: says she's going to have a baby, she'll have a

604
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: better chance of securing his love. So what we see

605
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: is there's a nine or ten or eleven months pattern

606
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: of getting fakes on a Graham's going on the internet,

607
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: ordering babys having the gender revealed, party, having baby showers,

608
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, at the ninth months brought row,

609
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: they have to produce a baby, and they become extremely desperate, aggressive, ruthless,

610
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 1: and they'll do anything to procure a baby, even it's

611
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: like what we're covering today, you know, murdering and attacking

612
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: a pregnant woman. What a piece of work. Twenty nine

613
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: and old Taylor Parker doesn't want to tell her boyfriend

614
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: she had a his direct to me and instead thanks

615
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: a pregnancy for ten months and nobody but me, and

616
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: I'm not that good at it. Ten months she faces

617
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: a pregnancy online and to those closest to her, including

618
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 1: her boyfriend. I don't know how he didn't notice she's

619
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: not pregnant before she murders her best friend, slashing her

620
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: hip to hip with a scalpel, all to steal her

621
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: unborn baby girl and present the baby to her boyfriend.

622
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: Just convicted, now heading toward penalty phase. She is facing

623
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: the death penalty. She's being convicted of capital murder. The

624
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: guilty verdict is in, but what about punishment? Nancy Grace

625
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: Crime Story signing off Goodbye Friend