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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to.

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Speaker 2: Stephan Never told you, protection of ihearted you, And today

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Speaker 2: we are bringing something kind of new.

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Speaker 1: We have done this.

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Speaker 2: Before, but we're going to try some experiments with playlist. Yay. Yes,

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Speaker 2: because we are at the end of the year and

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Speaker 2: we were looking at a couple of series we had

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Speaker 2: done that were spread out over a long time, and

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Speaker 2: we were thinking how nice it would be to have

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Speaker 2: them in one place, and in particular, the series that

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Speaker 2: you really spearheaded, Samantha on Religion was one that came up.

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Speaker 3: Yes, what ended up being what should have been in

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Speaker 3: my mind, it's gonna be four episodes doubled and then

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Speaker 3: some to nine episodes, I believe, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: this is traumatic plus touch it as long as we can.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But it was a great series like that. We

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Speaker 2: covered so much stuff and it was something that we

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Speaker 2: were proud of, but it was spread out so much,

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Speaker 2: so we thought like, maybe we can try to put

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Speaker 2: it all in one place, yes, for listeners, and then

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Speaker 2: maybe if you'd missed one or the things had been

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Speaker 2: lost over the month for you, that it would be

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Speaker 2: in one place. And then yes, yeah, it makes sense.

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Speaker 3: And because we release a lot of content, it may

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Speaker 3: be hard for you to find all of them, and

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Speaker 3: there's no real easy way to search.

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Speaker 1: No, we know this.

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Speaker 3: We've been talking about this internally, just so you know. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: absolutely wanted to do that gather for you in just

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Speaker 3: in time for the merriest time of year.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we did do that for.

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Speaker 3: We did.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so this was a mini series that was

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Speaker 2: sort of specifically about Western Christianity and trauma and marginalized communities.

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Speaker 2: We wanted to bring it all together for easy listening

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Speaker 2: in quotes since it was spread out. We do talk

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Speaker 2: about all kinds of trauma associated with religion, history, culture

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Speaker 2: changes that are happening that continue to happen. There's been

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Speaker 2: a lot of headlines since we did these episodes, yes,

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Speaker 2: about further fracturing and big denominations. But we would love

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Speaker 2: to hear back from you listeners if you enjoy these playlists,

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Speaker 2: because we are also looking at doing another one with

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Speaker 2: the fiction stuff and how you might prefer them, because

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Speaker 2: we're trying a couple different things. But we hope that

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Speaker 2: you enjoy this. We hope that it is helpful. This

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Speaker 2: is just sort of an introduction to the series. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: let us know, let us know, let us know if

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Speaker 2: it's helpful, let us know what if you enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: And welcome to Stephan never told you your protection of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Annie, Before we even start, I'm gonna go ahead

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Speaker 3: and ask a big question because I know we've talked

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Speaker 3: about our religious experiences before, but just kind of a

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Speaker 3: reminder so we can kind of get on the same

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Speaker 3: page before we start these episodes. And I said multiple

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Speaker 3: by the way, were you super religious growing up?

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Speaker 2: I went through I would say a two year face

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Speaker 2: where I was very very religious, like donated my allowance

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Speaker 2: money to the church. I was thinking about this because

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Speaker 2: we have been planning these episodes for a while and

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Speaker 2: here they are perfect timing, and they are they are

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Speaker 2: a couple of them coming. But I was thinking about,

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Speaker 2: like why why that is? And I think it's because

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Speaker 2: I got kind of called out and embarrassed in front

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Speaker 2: of all my classmates when I was younger because I

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Speaker 2: didn't know what Christianity was. Wow, Like I went to church.

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Speaker 2: I think I just didn't put together. So somebody asked

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Speaker 2: me if I was Christian, and I like froze up

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Speaker 2: in front of everybody, and I was like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: don't know. And then that was such a sin in

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Speaker 2: small town Georgia, right, like, oh God, she's not a Christian.

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Speaker 2: So it was around that time I really became very

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Speaker 2: very religious. I volunteered, I gave all my money and

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Speaker 2: went to all the classes. But I think it only

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Speaker 2: lasted two years. I did go until about eighth grade.

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Speaker 2: I went to church, but then in eighth grade I

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Speaker 2: stuffed going and never really went back.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we'll talk about that more.

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Speaker 3: Well, but your family wasn't religious either, right, not really.

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Speaker 2: They became more religious after I moved out, actually, and

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Speaker 2: as they got older, but as kids, I think we

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Speaker 2: weren't super interested in it and it was just kind

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Speaker 2: of a time suck for them. And I know how

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Speaker 2: this sounds, but I think honestly, I think they were

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Speaker 2: just kind of tired and we weren't into it. So

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Speaker 2: they're like, you know what, we did the thing, right,

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Speaker 2: let's just stop now. So we stopped going to church

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Speaker 2: regularly when I was in middle school.

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Speaker 1: Okay, did you were you the holiday church types? Oh? Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: we went.

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Speaker 2: We went in the holidays, and I wasn't a couple

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Speaker 2: of the holiday plays. Oh, of course, of course, yes,

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Speaker 2: but that was more my excitement about, like wearing pajamas

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Speaker 2: and getting to act.

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Speaker 1: That's fair, That is fair. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I grew up, as we've talked about before, in a

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Speaker 3: very super religious family. They are still very very religious,

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Speaker 3: to the point that from my beginning in the United

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Speaker 3: States in Korea, I did have missionaries visit my orphanage.

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Speaker 3: I remember this distinctly, so westernized Christianity was a part

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Speaker 3: of my past. So I have memories of that, and

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Speaker 3: I remember these Christian people coming with guitars and singing

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Speaker 3: to us. I remember this very clearly. But they were Asian,

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Speaker 3: they were not from a different country. But of course,

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Speaker 3: you know, that's a whole other thing. But I also

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Speaker 3: remember doing Buddhist practices and ancestral practices, because we would

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Speaker 3: definitely do the whole respect of the elders, bowing to

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Speaker 3: the elders, making sure that we were doing all these things.

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Speaker 3: So I remember these things pretty clearly from my time

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Speaker 3: as an adolescent. So I came here when I was

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Speaker 3: sevenish to the US. After that, I became a staunch Christian,

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Speaker 3: and I hes they say the word Christian because even

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Speaker 3: at that point in time at the church that I

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Speaker 3: had gone to, they do not think theology and getting

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Speaker 3: education like that is beneficial, and that they believe that

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Speaker 3: to do this, to learn too much, takes away from

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Speaker 3: the faith part. It was not holy Spirit, it was

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Speaker 3: holy ghost. They did communion with wine that they made themselves.

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Speaker 3: They made unleavened bread themselves. There was foot washing every year,

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Speaker 3: a revival every year. If you were a pastor, it

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Speaker 3: was because you were called to be like you literally

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Speaker 3: had the spirit move in you and you were told

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Speaker 3: by Jesus that you were to speak the word of God.

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Speaker 3: It was the ultimate gift. It wasn't because you went

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Speaker 3: to get an education for it. That was almost blasphemous

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Speaker 3: according to what I was raised by. They don't like

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Speaker 3: other denominations, and that includes Methodists, that includes the Southern

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Speaker 3: Baptist definitely no Catholics. It is a whole different world.

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Speaker 3: I don't even really know what the denomination that I

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Speaker 3: grew up in was. I've heard a primitive Baptist as

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Speaker 3: part of it. I've also heard the term, and this

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Speaker 3: could be just like a nickname for it, foot washing Baptist.

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Speaker 3: We were not quite Pentecostals, and when I say Pentecostal,

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Speaker 3: I meant I mean the kind that believe in tongues

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Speaker 3: and all that. We did have pianos, so they did

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Speaker 3: believe in instruments and music like that. Because you know,

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Speaker 3: several churches that I knew in my small town did

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Speaker 3: not have instruments. They thought that was blasphemous as well.

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Speaker 3: Whole different thing. So I'll talk a little more about

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Speaker 3: my experience, but that's what I grew up in. So

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Speaker 3: believing in God and Jesus was a no brainer. Like

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Speaker 3: I was told, the reason I was in the US,

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Speaker 3: the reason I was alive, point blank, was because.

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Speaker 1: I was saved by Jesus and God. And so therefore my.

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Speaker 3: Life is dedicated to that purpose. So growing up, that's

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Speaker 3: exactly what I believed. I believe that I was supposed

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Speaker 3: to be a missionary. In the freshman year of college,

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Speaker 3: I actually took off for a full year to go

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Speaker 3: work in Oklahoma at a group home who actually specializes

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Speaker 3: with Native and Indigenous people, And I'm sorry to that community.

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Speaker 1: I knew what I knew now.

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Speaker 3: Everything I did was with good intent, and I believe

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Speaker 3: that for most people who are Christians and who do

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Speaker 3: believe in this idea of missionary and saving people.

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Speaker 1: Like that that's the idea, So I can't get mad

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Speaker 1: at that.

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Speaker 3: But looking back at it now, I was like, oh man,

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Speaker 3: that was really damaging and I really regret that part

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Speaker 3: of my life. So I did all of this, and

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Speaker 3: it wasn't until I left college and kind of worked

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Speaker 3: in the real world and then my own personality did

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Speaker 3: not mesh with what the church, what I was told

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Speaker 3: by the church, and I'm saying Capital C church, and

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Speaker 3: that's how we're probably gonna be talking about it throughout

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Speaker 3: this episode. That's like until I walked away that I

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Speaker 3: was like, this doesn't this doesn't work, this is not

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Speaker 3: this doesn't make sense. And then of course I think

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Speaker 3: we're going to talk more about the fact that this

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Speaker 3: is more common, even though it felled so isolating when

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Speaker 3: you go through these things. But yeah, I had that

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Speaker 3: moment and I can tell you almost exactly when like

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Speaker 3: I can remember what like what was happening in things

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Speaker 3: that were happening and as it was unraveling for me,

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Speaker 3: essentially what that looked like.

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Speaker 1: But I still have small faith in things. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't call it necessarily Christianity and God and all

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Speaker 3: of that, But there is a bit of me that

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Speaker 3: still believes in not necessarily. We're not gonna talk about

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Speaker 3: manifest destiny, but along the lines of, like, it's not

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Speaker 3: always just coincidence. Again, I don't know what that looks

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Speaker 3: like to me necessarily, and it's hard to let go of.

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Speaker 3: Like several times, even like when I get into a situation,

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Speaker 3: I automatically like it doesn't necessarily go into prayer, but

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Speaker 3: it's kind of that level of meditation of like please

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Speaker 3: help me, please help me, don't let me die, type

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Speaker 3: of conversations in my head. Right, But yeah, it's a

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Speaker 3: whole thing. And of course these conversations like this you've had.

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Speaker 3: You and I have had this so many times. I

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Speaker 3: think I have it with all of my friends. We

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Speaker 3: just have a whole breakdown of this conversation. Is why

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Speaker 3: we're talking about this today. There is a point I

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Speaker 3: swear to God, and yeah, we're going on this journey

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Speaker 3: on this Good Friday to celebrate it is April seventh,

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, Good Friday twenty twenty three. We're talking

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Speaker 3: about I guess western nize Christianity and the marginalized people,

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Speaker 3: and it is more than one episode because there's a

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Speaker 3: lot to it. Oh and before we start, I probably

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Speaker 3: should have said because for some of y'all thought my

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Speaker 3: comments were probably traumatizing, and I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 1: Content the warning. We are going.

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Speaker 3: To be exploring Western Christianity, and I say western Christianity obviously,

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Speaker 3: we're focusing more on what is happening in the United

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Speaker 3: States in America and those who had these types of

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Speaker 3: Christian beliefs here are which are different, obviously, and we

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Speaker 3: want to talk about how this has caused trauma for

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Speaker 3: a lot, for women and for the marginalized community as

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Speaker 3: a whole. Yeah, and like I said, like we said,

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Speaker 3: we've been dancing around this topic.

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Speaker 1: But y'all this research.

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Speaker 3: We've been working on this for three months and our

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Speaker 3: contributor Joey, thank you so much. Joey has done so

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Speaker 3: much research for us, literally found probably what seventy five

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Speaker 3: different references and then more on top of that as

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Speaker 3: we went along trying to pull out as much information

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Speaker 3: as we can. There's articles upon articles, and trying to

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Speaker 3: narrow down the information itself was hard, and of course

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Speaker 3: there's lots and lots of opinions on the matter, and

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Speaker 3: we're trying to not be so opinionated as much as

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Speaker 3: we are looking at the statistics. It's kind of hard

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Speaker 3: because it is personal for us. I guess that's the

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Speaker 3: other Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Learning for it.

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Speaker 3: And again, yes, we're talking about religion trauma as a

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Speaker 3: side note. We want to say right at the beginning,

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Speaker 3: we're not trying to disparage or say that religion and

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Speaker 3: spirituality is wrong in any way. Like I said, I

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Speaker 3: still believe I am spiritual. There are things that I

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Speaker 3: will still it's hard for me to get away from,

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Speaker 3: and faith is powerful and being connected to spirituality can

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Speaker 3: be powerful and can be really life saving.

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Speaker 1: I really think that.

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Speaker 3: I think part of what I went through growing up,

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Speaker 3: if it had not been for the faith the practices

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Speaker 3: that I went through, I would have been in much

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Speaker 3: more dire situations.

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Speaker 1: I will say that.

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Speaker 3: And what we're talking about specifically, I guess we're building

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Speaker 3: up to and having a conversation of what is happening

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Speaker 3: in the US today, what it looks like. When we

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Speaker 3: talk about the movement of deconstruction. We're going to explain

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Speaker 3: what that is a little bit and then talk about

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Speaker 3: it more in another episode, as well as how our

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Speaker 3: country looks like it's going towards a Christian national government,

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Speaker 3: and we want to talk about why this should be

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Speaker 3: a cautionary tale for us and that we need to

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Speaker 3: be aware and educated on that subject.

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Speaker 1: So with all of that, let's be good.

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Speaker 2: Yes, let us do it, and let us start with

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Speaker 2: an overview and history of Western religion, because, as you said, yes,

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Speaker 2: we're going to be focusing more so on Westernized Christianity

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Speaker 2: and the evolution of what it is today and how

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Speaker 2: that affects the marginalized communities. So we aren't necessarily doing

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Speaker 2: a Bible lesson, which I did go to.

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Speaker 3: How about that you're going to one up me throughout this?

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Speaker 2: I feel we are not talking theology, although theology does

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Speaker 2: play a lot into today's societal views on gender and

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Speaker 2: reality roles, which we do talk about throughout these episodes.

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Speaker 2: We have several episodes related to this where we've talked

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Speaker 2: about it as well. But let us start with some

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Speaker 2: facts and statistics. So, religion is a large part of humanity.

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Speaker 2: It shapes beliefs, it shapes values, it shapes behaviors. It

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Speaker 2: plays a crucial role in developing an individual's perspectives towards life, society,

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Speaker 2: and the world around them. However, studies suggest that there

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Speaker 2: are significant gender differences in religious beliefs and practices. So,

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Speaker 2: for example, American women are more likely than men to

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Speaker 2: say that religion is quote very important in their lives.

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Speaker 2: According to a survey conducted by Pew Research Center, sixty

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Speaker 2: percent of women in the US say that religion is

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Speaker 2: very important to them, compared to forty seven percent of men.

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Speaker 3: Right, and the numbers actually higher than that. Again, so

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Speaker 3: some of these research surveys came from twenty sixteen, twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty, so we've tried to pick from h one.

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Speaker 3: This is one of the bigger ones that happened, I

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Speaker 3: believe in twenty eighteen, and it was saying that sixty

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Speaker 3: percent says is highly very important. There is also I

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Speaker 3: think another like twenty percent or even say eighty percent

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Speaker 3: of women in that point timeframe would say it was

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Speaker 3: moderately important.

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Speaker 1: So it's pretty high. The numbers are high.

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Speaker 3: So on the same lines, American women are more likely

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Speaker 3: to pray daily than American men. In the same survey

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Speaker 3: show that sixty four percent of women in the US

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Speaker 3: pray daily versus the forty seven percent of men. And

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Speaker 3: American women are also more likely to attend religious services,

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Speaker 3: with around forty percent of women in the US attending weekly,

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Speaker 3: while only thirty two percent of men attend. And if

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Speaker 3: we take the numbers down by race, the studies show

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Speaker 3: that the Black community are more likely to pray daily

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Speaker 3: with forty seven percent, followed by the Latino community at

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Speaker 3: thirty nine percent. And the Black and Latino communities are

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Speaker 3: also more likely to attend a religious service on a

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Speaker 3: daily basis, though I had to recheck that number.

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Speaker 1: I was daily wow. Okay, daily wow.

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Speaker 3: But for the weekly basis, the Latino community comes first

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Speaker 3: with seventeen percent likely to attend, while the White community

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Speaker 3: comes at sixteen percent, the Asian community at fourteen percent,

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Speaker 3: and the Black community at thirteen percent. So these numbers

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Speaker 3: are kind of varied. But it's also noted in a

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Speaker 3: gallop pole from twenty seventeen that the Black community are

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Speaker 3: most likely to identify as religious, with more than a

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Speaker 3: two percent on that pole.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, and within the queer community, religion is still important.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about this the other day with our

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Speaker 2: book I'm teamed with Glennon Doyle. There was that whole

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Speaker 2: passage about that almost half of the Queer population that

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Speaker 2: was surveyed for the Gallop Pole showed that religion still

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Speaker 2: is considered a big part of their lives, that many

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Speaker 2: still believe in God, they still attend religious services and

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Speaker 2: pray regularly. Showed at least forty seven percent as moderately

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Speaker 2: or highly religious, while fifty three percent stated that they

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Speaker 2: were not. However, those numbers have changed based on age

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Speaker 2: and generation, with only thirty four percent of the eighteen

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Speaker 2: to twenty four year olds being for it versus fifty

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Speaker 2: six percent for fifty to sixty four year olds, So

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Speaker 2: that's a pretty big difference. And within those statistics, the

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Speaker 2: most religious in the Queer community was the Black community,

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Speaker 2: who for over seventy percent of those surveyed said that

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Speaker 2: yes religious. But that is twelve percent less than the

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Speaker 2: general population, and we will get into that a bit

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Speaker 2: more later, but yes, the numbers seem to be going down,

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Speaker 2: and as the current state of affairs have brought about

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Speaker 2: the same significant and dangerous changes within the community, many

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Speaker 2: continue to leave their religious ideology and the biases shown

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Speaker 2: against the LGBTQ plus community hasn't just been so it's

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Speaker 2: the queer community, but those who would consider themselves as

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Speaker 2: allies for sure, and outside of the US there are

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Speaker 2: similar studies suggesting the same thing. A study in Europe

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Speaker 2: showed that women were also more likely to pray, attend services,

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Speaker 2: and believe in God as compared to men, and similar

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Speaker 2: studies showed the same thing for women in the Middle

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Speaker 2: East and South Asia too.

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Speaker 3: Right, so the overall history of religion is complicated. We

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Speaker 3: know this. Christianity was often an excuse of colonialization all

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Speaker 3: over the world with an intent to conquer and rule,

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Speaker 3: and the spread of Christianity was quick and widespread. Today,

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Speaker 3: the topic of colonization and religion is a hot controversial issue,

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Speaker 3: often causing defensiveness and disagreements, and it's still an issue

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Speaker 3: when we talk about missionaries and current state of churches

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Speaker 3: sending out people out in the world. But before we

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Speaker 3: go there, we do want to talk about is there

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Speaker 3: a reason why the marginalized communities, specifically women, are more

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Speaker 3: likely to be religious? And to be honest, the answer

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Speaker 3: there is not really, but there are some possible theories

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Speaker 3: based on some of the research and surveys. In a

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Speaker 3: twenty sixteen Peugh research study, titled the Gender Gap and

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Speaker 3: Religion around the World. They write based on these wide

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Speaker 3: ranging and comprehensive data sets, So we just kind of

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Speaker 3: talked about that. This study finds that globally, women are

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Speaker 3: more developed than men by several standard measures of religious commitment.

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Speaker 3: But the study also reveals a more complex relationship between

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Speaker 3: religion and gender than has been commonly assumed. While women

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Speaker 3: generally are more religious, men display higher levels of religious

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Speaker 3: commitment in some countries and religious groups. So just to

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Speaker 3: kind of as more contexts, we're not talking much about

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Speaker 3: the Muslim community. We're not talking about the Jewish community

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Speaker 3: as much, which we should. We will try to come

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Speaker 3: back to, but we're not necessarily focusing on that. But

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Speaker 3: what we do see in that as well as Buddhism,

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Speaker 3: there is a higher number of men committed to those

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Speaker 3: types of religion. So that's what we're talking about here,

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Speaker 3: and in other context there are few, if any, discernible

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Speaker 3: gender differences in religion.

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Speaker 2: So just a reminder, yes, and something to note from

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Speaker 2: the same twenty sixteen Pew research on the gender gap

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Speaker 2: of religiousness US Christians differ from other countries. So here's

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Speaker 2: a quote from the report. Men and women in the

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Speaker 2: United States differ from each other in their levels of

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Speaker 2: religious commitment to a greater extent than men and women

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Speaker 2: differ in other economically advanced countries for which data are available,

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Speaker 2: including Canada and the United Kingdom. While American men generally

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Speaker 2: display less religious commitment than American women, both genders are

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Speaker 2: more religious than men and women in other economically advanced countries,

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Speaker 2: and with that information, the same report shows the variation

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Speaker 2: around the world. It goes on to say the gender

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Speaker 2: gap among Christians, as well as some gender differences in

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Speaker 2: other faith traditions, vary in size and different regions of

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Speaker 2: the world. This suggests that while gender differences in religious

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Speaker 2: commitment may be driven in part by the teachings of

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Speaker 2: a particular religion, they also may reflect national habits or

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Speaker 2: cultural views intrinsic to a particular part of the world.

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Speaker 3: So in that research, they suggest that socioeconomic status as

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Speaker 3: well as working a job outside the home could play

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Speaker 3: a factor. Here's an interesting quote from that article. Women

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Speaker 3: who participate in a labor force tend to show lower

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Speaker 3: levels of religious commitment than women who do not work

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Speaker 3: outside of the home for pay. As a result, when

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Speaker 3: these two groups of women are compared with men, most

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Speaker 3: of whom are in the labor force, the gender gaps differ. Indeed,

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Speaker 3: Pew Research Centers analysis finds the gap between women who

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Speaker 3: are in the labor force and men tend to be

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Speaker 3: smaller than the gap between women who are not in

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Speaker 3: the labor force and men. This pattern holds even after

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Speaker 3: accounting for other factors that are also associated with religious commitments,

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Speaker 3: such as education level, age, and mental status. Moreover, further

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Speaker 3: analysis show that across predominantly Christian countries, the overall gender

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Speaker 3: gaps in daily prayer and importance of religion are smaller

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Speaker 3: in countries where more women are in the labor force,

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Speaker 3: which makes us wonder if perhaps this is a link

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Speaker 3: between the oppressive system that uses religion, specifically a patriarchical

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Speaker 3: ideology to key control and supremacy, you know, by taking

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Speaker 3: away financial independence.

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Speaker 1: But we'll talk a bit more about that later.

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Speaker 2: In another Pew article, they interviewed a demographer and sociologists

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Speaker 2: from the University College London, David Voas, I hope I'm

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Speaker 2: not fatchuring that on the gender gap, and his opinion

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Speaker 2: is maybe that it's just quote biological basis, And here

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Speaker 2: is a full quote from the interview. Personally, I'm tempted

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Speaker 2: to give the classic academic response that more researches needed,

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Speaker 2: at the risk of seeming wishy washy. I suspect that

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Speaker 2: nature and nurture both play a part. Boys and girls

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Speaker 2: are socialized differently, and men and women are still channeled

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Speaker 2: into different roles when we look at the psychology of

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Speaker 2: individual differences, though particularly in personality, it's not easy to

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Speaker 2: attribute gender gaps in their entirety to social forces. And

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Speaker 2: then he goes on to explain, I'm not an expert

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Speaker 2: in genetics, but there appears to be some fairly compelling evidence,

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Speaker 2: for example, from studies of twins, that genes do affect

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Speaker 2: our disposition to be religious. And if that's the case,

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Speaker 2: it's at least plausible that the gender gap and religiosity

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Speaker 2: is partly a matter of biology. If true, though I

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Speaker 2: doubt that it's because there's a god gene and women

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Speaker 2: are more likely to have it than men. It seems

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Speaker 2: easier to believe that physiological or hormonal differences could influence personality,

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Speaker 2: which may in turn be linked to variations in spirituality

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Speaker 2: or religious thinking.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he had a whole lot of opinions. But again,

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Speaker 3: I mean, we're going to talk about those, but like

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Speaker 3: they don't do it's hard to resource these think these things.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's.

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Speaker 3: Kind of how we talked about other like metaphysical type

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Speaker 3: of conversations. It's harder to get the you know in

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Speaker 3: an article written by doctor Angelo. Buttone, I think that's right.

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Speaker 3: I'm so sorry for the Iona Institute, Doctor Botone writes.

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Speaker 3: Scholars agree that the religious gender gap is due to

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Speaker 3: a confluence of multiple factors psychology, family environment, social status,

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Speaker 3: workforce participation, et cetera. But there's no consensus on exactly

437
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 3: which factors are more responsible for gender differences. So there's

438
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 3: a lot. There's a lot we don't know why. There

439
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 3: may be many things. It may be all about faith.

440
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 3: It may be a coincidence again, like me believing what

441
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 3: I believed was partly due to my circumstances and being

442
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 3: taught that. So the teachings of a particular creed might

443
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: make it more appealing to a woman rather than men.

444
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 3: But local traditions and habits also play a role. That

445
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 3: means that even within the same tradition Christianity, for instance,

446
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 3: there are significant differences in different parts of the world,

447
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 3: which yeah, I think that's absolutely true, because yeah, Christianity

448
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 3: looks different everywhere. I will say again, I remember in

449
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: Korea there was a mixture of Buddhism with Christianity, and

450
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 3: that's how I learned, which is something that has been

451
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 3: charted as they continue to serve a different countries. Again,

452
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 3: there's differences, so we're not going to get a full picture.

453
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 3: All of these conversations are continued and will continue and

454
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 3: probably will change obviously as we continue in time, and

455
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 3: the information is still not conclusive honestly.

456
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 2: Nope, And like our past Monday many on women in superstition,

457
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 2: there does seem to be a more likely correlation of

458
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: women in spirituality, whether it's a level of intuition or protection.

459
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,959
Speaker 2: But once again, always worth remembering data is typically sexist,

460
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: with most of the information coming from a very cis heteronormative,

461
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: middle class group, and how limited information can be when

462
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: access is also limited. It's just worth remembering.

463
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 3: We'll probably put that in between a lot of the

464
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 3: things that we say, because yes, especially because as time changes,

465
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 3: circumstances change.

466
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, mm hmm.

467
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 2: So all right, we've talked about statistics, We've talked about

468
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 2: some theories of the gender gap and religion. But let's

469
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: talk specifically about women in the Capital C Church. And

470
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: here we are talking about, yes, that one, the Capital

471
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: C Church as an institution, and we are looking specifically,

472
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 2: as you said, at the United States as it pertains

473
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 2: to Christianity.

474
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 3: Right, So the spread of Christianity is fairly dark. Unlike

475
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 3: the stories I was told growing up. Once again, it's

476
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 3: very much framed into we're saving people, and who doesn't

477
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 3: want to save people? Like I if as a child,

478
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 3: what I want you to go to hell? No, so

479
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 3: I'm want to do my best to get you to

480
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 3: heaven because that's what I want for you. But conquering

481
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 3: and converting were two goals of the Eurocentric governments, as

482
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 3: we talked about in our past book club about the

483
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 3: Hodnashonian nation. The first nations had a more egalitarian system

484
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,239
Speaker 3: that was created through the matriarchal line, but once a

485
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 3: colonization began, the Protestant ideals, which are set up through

486
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 3: the patriarch think of the father and the son, quickly

487
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 3: took over. As Catherine Brecas explains in her research titled

488
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 3: Women and Religion in Colonial North America and the United

489
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 3: States from the seventeenth century until the present, women in

490
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 3: these religious traditions have differed in terms of their beliefs

491
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 3: and practices, with the exception of Native Americans, who seem

492
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: to have enjoyed relatively egalitarian gender roles before the European conquest,

493
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 3: women have shared similar experiences of subordination because of their gender.

494
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 3: Once again, yeah, if you go back to our book club,

495
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 3: we talk about that pretty intrinsically.

496
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: They talk about the fact that they had.

497
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 3: Never known any kind of equal playing field from jump,

498
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 3: so seeing that was foreign to them, and that was

499
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 3: because of the native First Nations people showing them how

500
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 3: it could be inside anyway. And she references the Hebrew

501
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 3: Bible as to the lineage and the traditions. She writes

502
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 3: all of the major world religions are based on scriptural

503
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 3: texts that reflect the male centered worldview of the times

504
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 3: in which they were written. In the Torah, for example,

505
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 3: Genesis two depicts Eve being formed out of Adam's rib,

506
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 3: which suggests that men were the norm and women secondary

507
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 3: in creation. Most of the main characters in the Hebrew

508
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 3: Bible are men, and the Biblical story revolves around patriarchs

509
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,239
Speaker 3: like Abraham, Jacob, and David. According to the Halaha, or

510
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 3: Jewish law, men and women have different religious obligations. Women

511
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 3: must obey certain rules of modesty.

512
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: And she writes of the examples within the New Testament

513
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 2: as well quote. The New Testament also includes texts emphasize

514
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: women's subordination to men, based on the account in Genesis, too.

515
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: Many Christians have argued that Eve's decision to eat the

516
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 2: forbidden fruit in the garden of Eden brought sin and

517
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: suffering into the world. According to this interpretation, God ordained

518
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: women to submit to the authority of their fathers and

519
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: husbands because of Eve's disobedience. Christians have also been influenced

520
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: by several texts from the Apostle Paul, including First Corinthians

521
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: Chapter fourteen, verses thirty four through thirty five. Let your

522
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,479
Speaker 2: women keep silence in the churches, for it is not

523
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: permitted onto them to speak, and One Timothy chapter two,

524
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: verse twelve. I suffer not a woman to teach, nor

525
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

526
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: Throughout American history, many Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, have

527
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,719
Speaker 2: used these texts to argue that women cannot be ordained

528
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 2: as priest or ministers until the passage of the Nineteenth

529
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: Amendment in nineteen twenty, which extended suffrage to women. Christians

530
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: also use used the Bible to argue that women should

531
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: not be allowed to vote or to hold positions of

532
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: political authority. And before we get too far into political references,

533
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: it is understood that there are different beliefs and interpretations

534
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: of these texts and the Bible as a whole, and

535
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: many changes have happened through the history of Protestant religions,

536
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: with different sects and denominations sing for other religions and

537
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: beliefs as well, and we are going to talk about

538
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: that too, but for now we are referencing the more

539
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: traditional understanding of these verses.

540
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: Now, I'm not going to talk about my controversial view

541
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: on Paul slash Assaul because lot I have a lot,

542
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 3: because I often argue, and I'm so sorry to put

543
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: too many beliefs that Paul is actually outside of the

544
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 3: Hebrew slash Old Testament. Paul's the only one who really

545
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 3: speaks about homosexuality and women as leaders. Like honestly, when

546
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 3: you look at the other acts, and I don't know

547
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 3: if the people will come at me if you look

548
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 3: at these their prophets and or disciples. They talk a

549
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 3: lot about the church as a whole, and they talk

550
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: about the church being women, So that is the wife.

551
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: So I find that interesting.

552
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 3: And of course they also say then that's Jesus is

553
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: the husband, and Jesus is the one that leads the church.

554
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 3: So that's a whole different conversation. But women are still involved.

555
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: So I have a lot of thoughts. I'm not gonna

556
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 3: put it here. I just about to be noted, Okay,

557
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 3: I have a lot of thoughts. Historically, women have always

558
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 3: outnumbered men and religious practices, and actually they've tried to

559
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 3: change the role of women within the community, even way

560
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 3: back when we talked about it again in our book

561
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: club with the hod and a Stone women, because for

562
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 3: few of the leaders of the Suffragettes, we're fairly anti

563
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: religious and we're going against the church, and really felt

564
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 3: like that was part of the problem in taking away

565
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 3: the rights of women.

566
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: So I found that interesting. I still vast and I think.

567
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 3: That's what we're talking about here when we see a

568
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 3: lot of changes. Of course, we got those who went

569
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: to the extreme, and we're going to talk about that

570
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 3: right now. According to Breca's at one point, women were

571
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 3: able to have a hand in influencing Christianity by arguing

572
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 3: women were quote crucial guardians of religious and political virtue,

573
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: which still influences women's roles within.

574
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: The Church and Christianity.

575
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 3: Today, we'll be talking a little bit more about the

576
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 3: virtuous woman. We've already had an episode about the purity movement,

577
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: and we're going to come back and talk about it

578
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: again a little more in context of trauma.

579
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: Again.

580
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: I know we already kind of talked about that, so

581
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 3: y'all can go back and hear what we said on that.

582
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 3: But this does have a big role that plays in it.

583
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 3: But at one point it was taken as being more

584
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 3: in the frontline slash leadership for the church. And then

585
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 3: within these movements, they helped create a quote cult of domesticity,

586
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: which was a movement that quote again this is all

587
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 3: out research enhance their authority within their families and Bregas

588
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: writes before the Industrial Revolution and the growth of a

589
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 3: consumer economy, women played a central economic role in the household,

590
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 3: for example, spinning wool, churning butter, and sewing clothing, but

591
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 3: as the factory rather than the home became the center

592
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 3: of production. In the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries,

593
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 3: women placed a new emphasis on their role as nurturers.

594
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 3: Instead of earning wages like men, women would provide a

595
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 3: haven from the cold and impersonal world of the factory

596
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 3: or the office. Again, we're seeing where these influences are

597
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 3: coming from. And this history extends even more with different

598
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 3: interpretations and understandings of the Bible and the role of

599
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 3: the Church, and different discoveries haven't made about the history

600
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 3: and about the role of women as well. Many of

601
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 3: those who identify as Christians do not agree with the

602
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 3: old traditions of women being completely submissive to their husbands

603
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 3: or to men at all, and biilled that misinterpretation has

604
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 3: allowed for these types of misunderstandings of the Bible. As

605
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 3: the author of the making of Biblical womanhood, how the

606
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 3: subjugation of women became gospel truth. Beth Alison Barr, who

607
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 3: is also a historian, a Southern Baptist, and a pastor's wife,

608
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 3: actually told NPR this in her interview while she was

609
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 3: publicizing this book. She said, the reason we think women

610
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 3: cannot be an authority is simply because we've taken five

611
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 3: or six verses from the New Testament, and we've used

612
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 3: those verses and read the entire Bible through them, through

613
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 3: that lens, and they're mostly the Pauline verses women be silent,

614
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 3: women submit to your husbands, etc. And if we step

615
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 3: away from those verses and actually put them in context

616
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 3: of what Paul was doing, and then put that in

617
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 3: context of the entire Bible, what we see is that

618
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 3: while patriarchy exists in the Bible, that God is actually

619
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 3: always fighting against patriarchy, that he's always raising women out

620
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 3: of it, He's always giving authority in surprising ways, both

621
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 3: in the Old Testament and in the New Testament, and

622
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 3: that if we look at the historical context of what

623
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 3: Paul is actually doing the New Testament, there are serious

624
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 3: problems with reading Paul as telling women that they have

625
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 3: to be solid and under the authority of men for

626
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 3: all times.

627
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: I feel like she agrees with me, y'all.

628
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: I think so.

629
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: I think she agrees with me again, strong opinions about this.

630
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: I think we should come back. I think we should

631
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: talk about it. She continues in that same interview. Conservative

632
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 2: evangelicalism has been teaching women for so long that there

633
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 2: is only one way to be a woman that makes

634
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: us godly and that allows us to follow Jesus, and

635
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 2: that one way is to be focused on home and

636
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 2: family and marriage. So be free is me wanting women

637
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: and men to know that the limitations we have placed

638
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 2: on them are not God's limitations. There are limitations that

639
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: we have placed on them within our own human culture,

640
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: and we can see how they're constructed by human culture,

641
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: and they are not of God. So be free means

642
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 2: be free to be what God has called you to be,

643
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 2: whatever that may be. And she's not the only one

644
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: to see these differences in the interpretation of the Bible.

645
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 2: But much like anything concerning morality or who has authority

646
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: and supremacy, these opinions are divisive.

647
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just kind of wanted to go through

648
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,919
Speaker 3: some of my own experiences of what I've seen, because

649
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 3: this is a prime example of what she is talking

650
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 3: about of what we were looking. My charge in itself

651
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 3: takes out of context, and people wouldn't argue with me.

652
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: What Paul has done, what Paul has said.

653
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 3: They use that as the authority because he wrote the

654
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 3: Book of Acts, he wrote all the different disciplines, and

655
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 3: instead kind of uses that as the ultimate authority. Over

656
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: the words of Jesus in his cell which if you

657
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 3: ever read through, and this is when we had this

658
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 3: joke of in the New Testament. Typically in the copies

659
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 3: that we see in the US, Jesus's words are written

660
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,919
Speaker 3: read purposefully, so that's how you know he is never,

661
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 3: at any point in time ever come after people for sin,

662
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 3: except for those who are profiting off of other people.

663
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 3: The only time you see this man angry, and I

664
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 3: say this in that level, and again I give it

665
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 3: a Bible lessons.

666
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry.

667
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 3: That's the only times you see him anger. He hangs out,

668
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 3: like we hear this often. He hangs out with prostitutes,

669
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 3: he hangs out with women, he hangs out with children.

670
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 3: And I'm saying this in such a relevant way, i

671
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 3: feel like I'm teaching God.

672
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: This is r being back to college.

673
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 3: But what we see in these very controversial comments about

674
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 3: what we think is sin is literally the words of Paul,

675
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 3: who never met Jesus and who had actually went and

676
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 3: persecuted many of jesus the followers beforehand, literally killing people,

677
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 3: killed many of them, and out of the Old Testament,

678
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 3: which is the Hebrew Bible, which was never intended for

679
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 3: anyone outside of the Jewish community, and even many of

680
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 3: the people of the Jewish community would say, this is

681
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 3: not what you think it is. You are taking this

682
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 3: out of context because Sodom and Gomora is often referenced as.

683
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: This is because they were all gay. Not true.

684
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 3: They were actually raping and beating and you know, blesting

685
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 3: people in that community. But hey, we're not looking at

686
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 3: that alway, because we don't mind that if we look good.

687
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: What were laws were being passed.

688
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 3: But in that level, my church heavily believed in these

689
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 3: same theories. As a woman, you were not allowed to

690
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 3: speak in church unless you're testifying. That means the Holy

691
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 3: Ghost has taken over you and that's not you speaking.

692
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: And y'all, I had those moments. I actually had those

693
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 3: most feeling like overwhelmed in joy or like in a

694
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 3: moment that like, I'm supposed to say this thing out loud,

695
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 3: this is going to affect people. I really there's levels

696
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 3: of like gospels and there's levels of gifts to me.

697
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 3: I thought I had discernment. I think I can read people,

698
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: but that translated into something else spiritually for me, and

699
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 3: I got caught up in that. In a long time,

700
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 3: the belief is that you have to pray for your

701
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 3: sins and I'm literally sitting at an altar crying until

702
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 3: you feel okay and say Jesus saved you. And it

703
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 3: is an emotion and a feeling a lot of places,

704
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 3: a lot of beliefs believe that you are not saved

705
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 3: until your baptized.

706
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 1: The church I grew up in was not like that.

707
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 3: The church I grew up in was also the type

708
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 3: that said once saved, always saved.

709
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: So technically I'm good, right, Yeah, sounds like although for

710
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: people like me.

711
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 3: That they come back with she was never really saved.

712
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: So even though during that time I did these holy acts,

713
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 3: and that's WHYBA became a social worker, That's why I

714
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 3: took a year off to work with kids. And it

715
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 3: wasn't that I went and just taught Bible. I literally

716
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 3: lived with them and helped them and mentored them. That

717
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 3: was something that was important to me that I did

718
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 3: something physically as well as spiritually. So I did that.

719
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 3: I traveled all over the South teaching young kids the

720
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 3: Bible as well. Again a lot of guilt there, but

721
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 3: the one thing I can say is I did teach

722
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 3: love and never taught hate. Because by the time I

723
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 3: became a high schooler and kind of was able to

724
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 3: make for my own opinions what I saw the church

725
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 3: that I was growing up when sewed fear, which is

726
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 3: that hell, fire and brimstone, which came way long ago.

727
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 3: We know about this in that you are all sinners

728
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 3: until you're saved, and if you do something wrong, you

729
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: are sinning against God and us, and we can judge you.

730
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 3: If a a woman has an opinion, she has to

731
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 3: go through the husband. Most of the meetings, you can

732
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 3: be present, but you cannot speak. Again, you have to

733
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 3: talk through the father or the husband. And I bought

734
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 3: into this belief. I remember telling my father at one

735
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 3: point in time when I was talking to other people

736
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 3: who are in different churches denominations specifically, I was like, I,

737
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: you know, being a woman of God meant I trust

738
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 3: my father and we have the same opinion and that

739
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 3: you will listen to me. Of course, that should be

740
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 3: the way it goes. That's kind of the whole idea

741
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 3: of democracy, that we trust the people that were voting

742
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 3: for to be our voices. That's that ideal, except for

743
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,879
Speaker 3: that that it absolutely bans women. And if you don't

744
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 3: agree or if you're in a bad relationship, and as

745
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 3: in fact, up until recently, they condone you staying with

746
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 3: your husband even if you are being abused, or being

747
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 3: heard or being neglected. The only reason, and it is

748
00:42:58,239 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 3: actually written in the Bible that you can take the

749
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 3: leave your husband is if he cheats on you, and

750
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 3: even then the woman cannot get married m M. And

751
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 3: if they believe that you are in the wrong, you

752
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 3: have a physical membership, and they will take your membership away,

753
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 3: and that they will not allow you to go to

754
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 3: any other churches within that denomination. No shorts, no pants

755
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 3: for women. I remember one sermon and my parents didn't

756
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 3: believe this, thank goodness, but one dude got up talking

757
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 3: about how women wearing makeup were sinful because they were

758
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 3: trying to tempt men. It was quiet, and my mother,

759
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 3: who is the Southern mother who's like never goes out

760
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 3: without makeup, was astounded, and she was like, I do

761
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 3: not believe that that man is wrong. That is the

762
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 3: one time I've seen her disagree. And up until my

763
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 3: siblings went through some of the really messy stuff that

764
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 3: they went through a divorce, was absolutely frowned upon. I

765
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 3: will say me living in sin with my partner.

766
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: They don't talk about it. They're just really grateful that

767
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: it's not.

768
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 3: Outside of their comfort zone, outside of me living with

769
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 3: them and sin.

770
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: Essentially, So there's a lot.

771
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 3: I am definitely haunted by some of the things that

772
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 3: I did in the belief that I was doing something

773
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 3: well as godly or that I felt committed. I have

774
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 3: a Bible that I still keep that is written with

775
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 3: so much stuff. I've got four journals of my adventures

776
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 3: on the mission trip, thinking that all of my prayers,

777
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 3: all of the things that I believe that God was

778
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 3: telling me. There are so many things, and again I

779
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 3: am very grateful to those experiences because I really think

780
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 3: it kept me alive. But there are so many harmful

781
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 3: things that actually mess with me as an adult, and

782
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 3: it still does. It still does, and it's become a

783
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 3: pretty big strain. So if my family members hear this,

784
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 3: but yeah, it's that level of understanding the Bible. And

785
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 3: of course for this traditionalist had to be King James.

786
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 3: The first time I've ever seen a Bible that was

787
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 3: not King James was an awful man, by the way,

788
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 3: historically real bad, real bad. Just so you know, it

789
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 3: was sinful. They did not believe that it was good.

790
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 3: But my parents have grown, I will say, even though

791
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 3: they are very, very religious, they have stepped outside of

792
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 3: those strict I think they have lived enough and seen

793
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 3: enough to be like, okay, okay, this is becoming a

794
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 3: little more hateful than loving, So they have stepped away

795
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 3: from that a little more.

796
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 1: Still far from far from.

797
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 3: What I believe in everything I believe so definitely and

798
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 3: very far spectrum of my views on the world and

799
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 3: what I think is right. And yeah, that really has

800
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 3: put a big strain on our family. To be fair,

801
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 3: never there's always been a strain because of the trauma

802
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 3: and the response religious response that I got instead of

803
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 3: therapeutic response I should have gotten. Again, my parents were young,

804
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 3: they didn't know, and they actually, you know, we've kind

805
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 3: of talked about it and admitted, both of us admitted

806
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 3: the wrongs that we committed when I was young because

807
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 3: they didn't know, they didn't know some of the things

808
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 3: that we know today. And then like the more thank god,

809
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 3: it's at least a more normalized therapy and all of that,

810
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 3: but at one point in time it wasn't and they

811
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 3: were heavy.

812
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: Duty into prayer should fix it.

813
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 3: There's nothing you need but God, which is again, and

814
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 3: I'm really glad to see that they had stepped away

815
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 3: from that.

816
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: And we've gone through a lot, but a lot of

817
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 1: this really.

818
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 3: Pushed me into walking away from religion altogether. I remember

819
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 3: having the conversation with my mother in the parking lot

820
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 3: of my work about to go in about the fact

821
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 3: that I did not believe in God anymore, and her

822
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 3: crying and me crying, and we're just sitting there in misery.

823
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 3: I see my mother has purposely forgotten that conversation because

824
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 3: I didn't want to light to her, especially every time

825
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 3: we's like have you been praying about it?

826
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: Have you been going to church?

827
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 3: Because I was super religious and she was very proud

828
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 3: of me and thought that I was going to be

829
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 3: a missionary. She didn't love it at first, but she

830
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 3: soon grew to love it because like people admired me

831
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: for that in that community.

832
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: It was.

833
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 3: It was a lot of things, but I will say, like,

834
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 3: this is one of those moments that I realized, this

835
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 3: doesn't make sense.

836
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: We're not going to get into.

837
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 3: That portion yet, and you're not going to go deeper

838
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 3: into that in another because we're going to talk about

839
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 3: the whole trauma of it all the yay.

840
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: But it was the point in which I walked away.

841
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 3: And I've seen more and more people in my generation

842
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 3: and then the younger kids.

843
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: Walking away too, right, yeah, yeah, And we have some

844
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: numbers around that. So these kind of rules and laws

845
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: that you've been talking about have come at a cost

846
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: for the Christian congregation. In the recent article written by

847
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: Christianity Today, author Ryan P. Burge writes, as recently as

848
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 2: last year, the religion gender gap has persisted among older Americans.

849
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: Survey data from October twenty twenty one found that among

850
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 2: those born in nineteen fifty, about a quarter of men

851
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 2: identified as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular, compared to

852
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 2: just twenty percent of women of that age. That same

853
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 2: five point gap is evident among those born in nineteen

854
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 2: sixty in nineteen seventy as well. For millennials and Generation Z,

855
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: It's a different story. Among those born in nineteen eighty,

856
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 2: the gap begins to narrow to about two percentage points.

857
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 2: By nineteen ninety, the gap disappears, and with those born

858
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: in two thousand or later, women are clearly more likely

859
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 2: to be nuns than men, and nuns is defined as

860
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 2: religiously unaffiliated people in the United States.

861
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 3: Right, So when we say nuns, we're saying n n ees,

862
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 3: not in uns.

863
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 2: Good good, good follow up clarification. Yep. And this type

864
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 2: of change has been noticed. Some theorized because the church

865
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 2: has been so focused on growing their male attendance, whether

866
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 2: by offering more male leadership classes or by challenging men

867
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,280
Speaker 2: to become quote manlier, some believe this has only pushed

868
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 2: women further away from the church. In that same article,

869
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 2: they write, evangelical women have long attended church at higher

870
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 2: rates and evangelical men, but today that gap is narrowing,

871
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 2: not because more men are coming, because more women are leaving.

872
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 2: Such women are increasingly likely to deconstruct their faith or

873
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 2: identify as nuns, a rising population of the religiously disaffiliated.

874
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 2: As Lyneman Stone wrote to U years ago, making your

875
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 2: church manlier won't make it bigger. It could be a

876
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 2: factor in making it smaller.

877
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah.

878
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 3: And another theory is that as more women become more

879
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 3: educated and more likely to focus on careers, they are

880
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,240
Speaker 3: less likely to be involved with the church. Here's another

881
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 3: quote from that same article. Education may be another significant

882
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 3: factor among college educated adults under twenty five. Women are

883
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 3: slightly less likely to say they have no religious affiliation

884
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 3: compared to men, thirty nine percent of women versus forty

885
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 3: five percent of men. So, once again, when we talked

886
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 3: about earlier that job having a check, maybe financial independence

887
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 3: does seem to be correlated. Not exactly sure why. Again,

888
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 3: the education level, and there's that conversation. I will say

889
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 3: the biggest fear for my parents and my family is

890
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,959
Speaker 3: that the kids will go to the city and get

891
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 3: learning and educated, and that education is going to ruin

892
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 3: and I guess taint this Christian morality ideas. And we've

893
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,720
Speaker 3: seen that today as we talk about CRT and book banning.

894
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 3: There is a reason for that. And again later we'll

895
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 3: be talking about deconstruction. We talked about it with our

896
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 3: interview with Dara. We just said a little bit about

897
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 3: it previously, but you want to go ahead and define

898
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 3: it since we did mention it. Deconstruction is quote a

899
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 3: Christian phenomenon where people unpack, rethink, and examine their belief systems.

900
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 3: This may lead to dropping one's faith altogether or may

901
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 3: result in a stronger faith. And so just to let

902
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,720
Speaker 3: you know, this is from Wikipedia, and typically we don't

903
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 3: use that as an actual source for definitions. This term

904
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 3: is contentious right now, so much so that if you

905
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 3: try to search it you will be bombarded with anti

906
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 3: deconstruction articles about how this is dangerous, literally like deconstruction

907
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 3: is ruining. You don't listen to this, it is dangerous,

908
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 3: walk away from it. And again, we're not going to

909
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 3: talk about it here because like I said, this is

910
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 3: there's a lot, but we will be talking about it

911
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 3: in our probably next episode. It's something to remember because

912
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 3: it is a movement. I've seen it on social media.

913
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,399
Speaker 3: We talked about it with Dara. There's conventions. We'll talk

914
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 3: about the origins of it and why it's important and

915
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 3: what we're looking at.

916
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

917
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a reason we put these off

918
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 2: for so long. There's a lot to discuss. There is.

919
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:36,959
Speaker 2: There is so we'll have We'll have more more coming

920
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 2: your way. This is only a bunch of part one,

921
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 2: but yes, we would love to hear from you from

922
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 2: you listeners. If you would like to contact us, you can.

923
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 2: Our email is stuph Media moom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

924
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at mom Step Podcast,

925
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 2: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff We've never told

926
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: you. You can also find us on YouTube. We have a

927
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 2: book coming out, so you can pre order it at

928
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 2: stuff You Should Read books dot com. Go do it,

929
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 2: and thanks to everyone who's already done it. Yay yay.

930
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, our executive

931
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 2: producer Maya, and our contributor Joey, who's particularly helpful with

932
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 2: these episodes.

933
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 1: Oh so good.

934
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 2: Thank you, joe Yes, and thanks to you for listening.

935
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 2: Stefan never told you the prodection of iHeart Radio. For

936
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check out

937
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 2: the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen

938
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 2: to your favorite shows,