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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Appocarplay and then Rounoro with the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Back in Washington, the fastest show in politics, back on

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg TV and Radio. I'm glad you joined us here

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Speaker 2: for the Monday edition as we still count votes, certainly

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Speaker 2: in California, with several seats in the House not yet called,

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Speaker 2: so we technically don't know who controls the House of Representatives.

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Speaker 2: It's a pretty deliberate win for Republicans on the Senate side, though,

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Speaker 2: we are again waiting for a call in the Arizona

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Speaker 2: Senate race. That'll be the last block. As we learned

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Speaker 2: over the weekend, the Nevada Senate race called and Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump wins the state of Arizona, so we could have

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Speaker 2: some tickets splitting when it comes to Arizona. Of the

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Speaker 2: House is the wild West literally in this case, We've

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Speaker 2: got millions of votes to be counted, nearly five millions

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Speaker 2: still in California, so it could be days it could

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Speaker 2: be weeks before we really have a sense of it.

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Speaker 2: If Republicans do keep their majority in the House, it

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Speaker 2: looks like it'll be about as thin as what they

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Speaker 2: have right now. Republicans need five, Democrats need fifteen, and

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Speaker 2: the nineteen outstanding races. You can do the math. It's

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Speaker 2: looking pretty good for Republicans and the idea of a trifecta,

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Speaker 2: which is where we start our conversation with someone you've

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Speaker 2: been hearing a lot about over the balance of this campaign.

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Speaker 2: Kevin Roberts is president of the Heritage Foundation, and he's

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Speaker 2: out with a new book called Dawn's Early Light, Taking

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Speaker 2: Back Washington to Save America, and he's with us at

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Speaker 2: the table today in Washington. Kevin, it's great to see you,

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Speaker 2: a nice to meet you. Thank you for joining us here, Joe,

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Speaker 2: thanks for having me TV and radio. I've got a

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Speaker 2: lot of questions for you, because as one of the

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Speaker 2: forces behind Project twenty twenty five, you've been waking up

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Speaker 2: reading about yourself every morning for the last six months

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Speaker 2: or so. That's what I'm told, Like, Yeah, maybe you've

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Speaker 2: been avoiding them, and if that's the case, I salute you.

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Speaker 2: We're in a world where some Republicans have demonized you.

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Speaker 2: Some Democrats have done the same, and quite an experience

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Speaker 2: for the Heritage Foundation here. Now that the election is done, though,

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump is headed back to the White House and

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Speaker 2: the GOP. As I just mentioned to our viewers and listeners,

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Speaker 2: bay Well looks appears to be on track to controlling

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Speaker 2: both chambers. So do you feel like they won or

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Speaker 2: do you feel like you one?

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Speaker 3: Oh, they won and most importantly, the forgotten ordinary American

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Speaker 3: has won because what really one was an emphasis on

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Speaker 3: common sense solutions to problems, and really not that at

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Speaker 3: Heritage we feel either entitled or defensive about Project twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five. We just are resolute because it's now policymaking season.

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Speaker 3: This is something that we've done for forty four years,

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Speaker 3: since nineteen eighty with Ronald Reagan. We understand that, of

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Speaker 3: course President elect Trump and Vice President elect Vance.

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Speaker 4: Will make all the decisions.

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Speaker 3: Have said that Project twenty twenty five is the single greatest,

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Speaker 3: biggest scope of personnel and policy work that's ever happened,

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Speaker 3: and we're very proud of it. It represents several dozen

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Speaker 3: million Americans. If you think about the one hundred and

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Speaker 3: ten organizations who are part of it.

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Speaker 4: Once again, totally.

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Speaker 3: Up to the President elect and Vice president elect. We

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Speaker 3: operate in service to them and to the American people.

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Speaker 3: But ultimately, to get to the heart of your question, Joe,

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Speaker 3: the American people have won here and we look forward

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Speaker 3: to playing whatever role formally or informally that we can.

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Speaker 4: To support that.

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Speaker 2: Well, did you anticipate the backlash you mentioned Ronald Reagan?

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Speaker 2: The Mandate for Leadership was something that was actually pretty

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Speaker 2: well received as a policy paper. It helped to put

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Speaker 2: heritage on the map. Was this supposed to be another

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Speaker 2: version of that or sort of a quiet policy paper

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Speaker 2: that you would provide whatever the incoming administration would be.

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Speaker 3: We wanted to insert substantive policy conversations into the political season.

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Speaker 3: We did not anticipate that the radical left, which couldn't

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Speaker 3: run on its record because it's terrible, actually use that

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Speaker 3: as the boogeyman that'd succeed in doing that. And look,

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Speaker 3: we made a tactical error in not responding in the

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Speaker 3: first six weeks to their total mischaracterizations. That's on us,

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Speaker 3: But ultimately the mischaracterizations are on the radical left. That's

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Speaker 3: a tactical lesson that we've learned and will never repeat that.

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Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean that the substantive part of the work,

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Speaker 3: the policies, the personnel database, which has twenty thousand Americans

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Speaker 3: who want to serve not only in presidential administrations but

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Speaker 3: also in gubernatorial administrations, is somehow something to be ashamed of.

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Speaker 4: In fact, quite the opposite. We're very proud of it.

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Speaker 3: Having said that, it is very much designed as all

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Speaker 3: of our previous projects have been designed, which is to

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Speaker 3: be of service.

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Speaker 4: And if I had to predict, the next.

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Speaker 3: Administration is going to be filled with excellent men and women,

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Speaker 3: not just because of the work we did, but most

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Speaker 3: importantly because of the great acumen of the President elect

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Speaker 3: and vice president elect and the team that they're already assembly.

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Speaker 2: We learned one name just over the weekend. It's Tom Homan,

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Speaker 2: who's going to be the border as Donald Trump is

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Speaker 2: referring to it. That was from a post on truth.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's a position that requires Senate confirmation

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Speaker 2: when it comes to being a czar, whatever that is.

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Speaker 2: But he was one of the authors of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: So is the winter over.

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Speaker 3: It may be the Tom Holman is also a visiting

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Speaker 3: fellow at Heritage he's a good friend. I was texting

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Speaker 3: him earlier congratulating him on that. And look, the most

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Speaker 3: important thing. Forget Tom's professional affiliation, forget that he was

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Speaker 3: a Project twenty twenty five author. The most important thing

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Speaker 3: is that he is aligned not just with President Trump,

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Speaker 3: but also with the American people who want to bring

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Speaker 3: an end to the ridiculous disorder on the southern border.

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Speaker 4: Tom's going to do a great job there.

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Speaker 3: In other words, Joe, neither today nor a year from today,

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Speaker 3: am I going to be sitting in my office at

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Speaker 3: Heritage sort of keeping score about who's in the administration

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Speaker 3: and not.

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Speaker 4: That's not why we do what we do.

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Speaker 3: We exist every day to be of service to the

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Speaker 3: American people and to the administration for that matter. If

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Speaker 3: the Democrats had won, and although it would have been

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Speaker 3: very surpri for them to have called us and say

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Speaker 3: you got a name for so and so agency, we

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Speaker 3: would have done that too. This is the whole point

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Speaker 3: about the work that he understood, does understood.

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Speaker 2: Although we had heard from the transition team that no

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Speaker 2: one from Project twenty twenty five was invited, you know,

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Speaker 2: we've got home and that apparently was not the case.

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Speaker 2: Have you talked to Donald Trump since he won.

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Speaker 4: We've not spoken yet, but I anticipate that we will.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's got to be pretty keyed up on

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Speaker 2: what Heritage is offering here. He was on the record

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Speaker 2: when the team was trying to distance itself from you.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea who is behind it, he put

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Speaker 2: on X. I disagree with some of the things are saying,

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Speaker 2: and some of the things are saying are absolutely ridiculous

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Speaker 2: and abysmal. Do you have a sense of what he

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Speaker 2: likes or doesn't like here?

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Speaker 3: I think the key thing is that President Trump saw

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Speaker 3: the branding as a liability in the political season. But

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Speaker 3: I also would anticipate moving forward that the president elect

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Speaker 3: and vice president elect, with whom we maintain great relationships,

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Speaker 3: will also understand that it's the policy making see and

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Speaker 3: that Heritage and all of the other groups are part

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Speaker 3: of our project, are built for and if they're looking,

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Speaker 3: for example, as President Trump said this morning, to dismantle

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Speaker 3: the US Department of Education, we know exactly where you

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Speaker 3: can go for that plan. Totally up to him about

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Speaker 3: whether he uses the plan. But that's what I'm talking about, Joe.

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Speaker 3: When I mentioned that great ideas and great people rise

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Speaker 3: to the top. All of the political calculations of the

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Speaker 3: last few months, which were very understandable and about which

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Speaker 3: we have no hard feelings, are in the past.

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Speaker 4: We're now in the policy making season.

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Speaker 3: We think that this is the beginning of a golden

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Speaker 3: era of conservative reform. I will say that because the

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Speaker 3: work of Project twenty twenty five represents the conservative movement.

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Speaker 3: It would be very difficult for anybody to implement policies

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Speaker 3: on education, on the border, on taxation without at least

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Speaker 3: consulting those ideas in people.

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Speaker 4: That's not some arrogant or hubristic comment on our part.

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Speaker 4: That's just the nature of how policy making works.

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Speaker 2: Well, so you're back, and you're back with a new

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Speaker 2: book on Early Light. It was originally supposed to release

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Speaker 2: in September. Was it your decision to postpone the release?

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Speaker 2: What went into that?

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent my decision, and that was because as

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Speaker 3: president of the Heritage Foundation and Heritage Action for America, I'm.

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Speaker 4: A busy guy, like a lot of people are.

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Speaker 3: You can relate to that yourself, and at Heritage Action

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Speaker 3: for America, which is our five oh one c four

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Speaker 3: more political arm we were busy registering almost one hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand voters in Arizona and Georgia doing the appropriate ballot

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Speaker 3: chasing to get them to the polls and succeeded in

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Speaker 3: doing that. And we just thought it would be better

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Speaker 3: in terms of using my time, for me to be

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Speaker 3: zealously focused on getting conservative policy makers in a position

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Speaker 3: to have a good conversation and delay the release of

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Speaker 3: the book until this month.

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Speaker 2: So you didn't think it would jeopardize Donald Trump's chances

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Speaker 2: of being elected or other Republicans based on what you

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Speaker 2: were hearing about twenty hive.

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Speaker 3: No, and I understand the question was very fair, but

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Speaker 3: not at all. In fact, if you get around reading

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Speaker 3: the book, you will see the book.

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Speaker 4: Is a reflection of trump Ism.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is really where the conservative movement in

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Speaker 3: America are going. And I think because the book is

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Speaker 3: far more oriented around ideas and where we take the movement,

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Speaker 3: the time for that conversation is after the election.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you it's really interesting because I wish

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Speaker 2: I had more time with the book, but I did

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Speaker 2: spend the weekend with it. And you write for America

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Speaker 2: to flourish again. The institutions you talk about don't need

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Speaker 2: to be reformed. They need to be burned, and you

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Speaker 2: have a list of them. Burn them to the ground.

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Speaker 2: Every Ivy League college, the FBI, the New York Times,

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Speaker 2: the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the Department

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Speaker 2: of Education, which you mentioned, eighty percent of Catholic higher education,

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Speaker 2: Black Rock, the Louden County Public School System, the Boy

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Speaker 2: Scouts of America, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the World

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Speaker 2: Economic Forum, the Chinese Communist Party, and the National Endowment

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Speaker 2: for Democracy. Do you see all of these as being

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Speaker 2: on the same side of something? Is this the uniparty?

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Speaker 2: You talk about?

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Speaker 4: Why burn it?

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Speaker 3: And what's important context for the list you there that

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Speaker 3: you have there is the metaphor that I use of

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Speaker 3: a controlled burn. So obviously we're talking about metaphorically regenerating

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Speaker 3: these institutions. But what all of those institutions have in

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Speaker 3: common is that they have forgotten the importance of the

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Speaker 3: everyday American and how so much of the work that

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Speaker 3: they do is oriented around concentrating power in either Washington

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Speaker 3: or New York. There are good people in some of

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Speaker 3: those institutions and in Washington and New York. But what

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Speaker 3: the American people told us last week is that it's

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Speaker 3: time for power to be devolved from those elite institutions,

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Speaker 3: back to the states and back to the American people.

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Speaker 3: My book places an emphasis on revitalizing federalism because that

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Speaker 3: gives the people closest to power the opportunity to actually

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Speaker 3: have a say in their government. By the way, I

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Speaker 3: think that's what we're going to see in the next

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Speaker 3: few years.

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Speaker 2: Black Rock, Larry Fink sports Trump.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: Blackrock and Larry Fink may have supported President Trump, but

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Speaker 3: before that decision, which I would just speculate is largely political,

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Speaker 3: underwrote a dramatic reorientation of capital from being focused on

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Speaker 3: making profit, which I know you and me and your

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Speaker 3: audience care about, to a socialized idea of ESG. And

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Speaker 3: I'm really glad that one of the great things that

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Speaker 3: has happened in terms of policy. In fact, one of

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Speaker 3: the things we talk about in Project twenty twenty five

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Speaker 3: and at Heritage is undermining the ridiculous work of Larry

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Speaker 3: Fink and Black Rock.

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Speaker 2: So it's ESG not China investment that turned you. It's

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Speaker 2: both when it comes.

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Speaker 4: To there, and they're very much related.

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Speaker 2: Is yeah, no doubt, no, well, no, I don't actually.

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Speaker 3: Well In fact, if you let's just take the E

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Speaker 3: and ESG in the environmental emphasis that actually favors the Chinese.

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Speaker 2: Coser, you're going understood. So here's the thing that strikes

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Speaker 2: me after spending some time with your book. You and

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Speaker 2: I are from really different places. You grew up in Lafayette, Louisiana,

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Speaker 2: which is a great town, by the way, and I've

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Speaker 2: been there more than once. I want you to know.

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Speaker 2: I'm from a place called Putnam, Connecticut, may as well

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Speaker 2: be from two different planets. I think was smaller than yours, though,

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Speaker 2: And while you grew up and saw the big oil

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Speaker 2: bust and what happened to families and to households in Lafayette,

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Speaker 2: for me, it was the textile mills, right. We had

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Speaker 2: all those in these milltowns in Connecticut. They all closed

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Speaker 2: when I was a kid. When the nineteen eighties got there.

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Speaker 2: Then the shopping malls opened and all the main street

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Speaker 2: stores closed. Unemployment went through, the roof morale went down.

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Speaker 2: Very similar cultural impact, even though we're talking about massively

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Speaker 2: different industries, different geography, different values. I supposed between a

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Speaker 2: New England family in Louisiana, but actually maybe more similar

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Speaker 2: than you think. You have French Canadian ancestors. I do too,

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Speaker 2: So we have the same scenario here, and there are

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Speaker 2: different potential solutions, right Joe, Biden's been talking about reshoring

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Speaker 2: and friend shoring and trying to bring jobs back that way.

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Speaker 2: We had the Chips Act. What does Project twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: five do? What will Donald Trump do to restore the

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Speaker 2: local economies in communities like the ones you and I

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Speaker 2: are from.

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Speaker 3: I can't tell you how much, Joe, I appreciate your question.

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Speaker 3: In fact, there's no doubt we have a lot more

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Speaker 3: similarities than differences.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: Well, actually, and that's I'm talking about all that's and

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Speaker 3: that's the point of the book too.

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Speaker 4: But thank you for that framing. But to the heart

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Speaker 4: of your question, which I love.

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Speaker 3: Actually, President Biden has talked about that I think he

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Speaker 3: probably could have done more in his three and.

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Speaker 4: A half years.

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Speaker 3: I don't say that to be a jerk. I say

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Speaker 3: that that I think he could have done more, But

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Speaker 3: I give him credit for saying the right things. I

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Speaker 3: think the Chips Act is well intentioned, but there are

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Speaker 3: some details we've got to get right going down the road.

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Speaker 3: But the ultimately where the policy emphasis needs to be

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Speaker 3: is a looking at the trade offs when you have

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Speaker 3: a globalized economy. It isn't that globalization is bad, obviously,

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Speaker 3: it's that there are effects that are deleterious.

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Speaker 4: On local town on local communities.

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Speaker 3: But the second is whether it's friends shoring, onshoing, or

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Speaker 3: providing incentives for American companies to be producing here at

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Speaker 3: home for American jobs. That's the comment we need to have.

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Speaker 3: And thirdly, because of how evil the Chinese Communist Party

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Speaker 3: regime is at Heritage, we are fully supportive of tariffs

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Speaker 3: on China. We are not supportive of tariffs across the board,

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Speaker 3: but we do understand that that is a valid conversation

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Speaker 3: for us to be having, as opposed to what the

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Speaker 3: political right in this country ten or twenty years ago

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Speaker 3: would have said, which is you can't even talk about it.

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Speaker 3: We believe we need to look at the data, we

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Speaker 3: need to look at the tax regime as a whole,

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Speaker 3: and we always need to understand that a good, healthy

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Speaker 3: economy flows first from a good, healthy civil society, whether

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Speaker 3: it's Putnam, Connecticut or Lafayette, Louisiana.

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Speaker 2: And that's something. Lastly, I want to ask you about

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Speaker 2: personal liberties. I don't want to do the abortion debate

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Speaker 2: here on the air. We've been doing that for months

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Speaker 2: and I know where you stand on this. You talk

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Speaker 2: about it at length. You highlighted trans as an issue

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Speaker 2: in this campaign the Republican Party did got a lot

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Speaker 2: of result from some advertising in that area. Are you

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Speaker 2: focused on minors, on parents, on schools, or you focused

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Speaker 2: on an adult who says, Hey, I have a different

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Speaker 2: view of the world in myself than you do when

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Speaker 2: it comes to things like gender dysmorphia. Shouldn't adult be

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Speaker 2: allowed to do what they want to do with their

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Speaker 2: own body.

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Speaker 3: From a policy making standpoint, especially over the next few years,

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Speaker 3: we're focused on minors. But the reason that we at

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Speaker 3: Heritage are so concerned about transgender ideology is because it

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Speaker 3: harms any human person it touches.

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Speaker 4: We love every human person.

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Speaker 3: We believe in the dignity of every human person, and

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Speaker 3: it's on those grounds that we think even for adults,

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Speaker 3: this is problematic.

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Speaker 2: Problematic because they're talking to kids about it or they're

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Speaker 2: going to somehow infect other adults.

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Speaker 3: What's your worry both if? I mean, hopefully there's real

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Speaker 3: agreement in this country. Actually, I know there's real agreement

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Speaker 3: in this country. Evidence by how effective a political issue.

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Speaker 3: This was last week that we have a real issue

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Speaker 3: with how much the transgender ideology has been imposed on

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Speaker 3: children through our schools, through our institutions.

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Speaker 4: Going back to your earlier question.

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Speaker 2: As opposed to just someone going about their businesses, you know,

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Speaker 2: a thirty year old, this is a choice I had.

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Speaker 4: That's a big difference.

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Speaker 2: That's a big difference. I'm glad that we could spend

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Speaker 2: some time together, and I hope this is the start

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Speaker 2: of a conversation that we'd like to continue here on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 4: I'll come back anytime.

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Speaker 2: I would love that. By the way, Don's Early Light

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Speaker 2: is the book. Kevin Roberts, happy to meet you. Good

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Speaker 2: luck with your travels. He almost missed a train for us.

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Speaker 2: We'll have a lot more ahead on the fastest show

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Speaker 2: in politics right here on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Your listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast can

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Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

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Speaker 1: Roynoo with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen

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Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

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Speaker 1: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: I think we need to set the baseline only on

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Speaker 2: the markets, but on the vote. We spent all last week,

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Speaker 2: of course with you from New York, counting the votes

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Speaker 2: well post Tuesday, and we're still counting. In the House.

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Speaker 2: The House has not been called. We've got nineteen outstanding races.

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Speaker 2: Republicans only need to win five of them to maintain

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Speaker 2: control of the chamber. We had a couple more calls

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Speaker 2: over the weekend, and the Senate firmly Republican now that

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Speaker 2: they've added Nevada to the list. We're waiting on Arizona,

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Speaker 2: where the Democrat is in the lead. Reuben Diego, knowing,

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Speaker 2: of course, now that Donald Trump won the state, making

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Speaker 2: a complete sweep, the full sweep of all seven battleground

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Speaker 2: states that we spent the weekend talking about Jackie Rose

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Speaker 2: and the Democrat, if I didn't make that clear, projected

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Speaker 2: to win Nevada's Senate race. Here fascinating conversation with Kevin Roberts,

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Speaker 2: and that is one that you are only going to

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Speaker 2: hear on this program. Where else on TV or radio

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Speaker 2: will you hear a deep dive like that with someone

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Speaker 2: so important to the process and the conversation in this campaign.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the head of the Heritage Foundation and the

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Speaker 2: force behind Project twenty twenty five. It's the end of

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Speaker 2: crypto winter, which it surely is a Bitcoin at a

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Speaker 2: new all time high.

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Speaker 4: Here.

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Speaker 2: Apparently it's the end of Project twenty twenty five winter

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Speaker 2: because one of the authors of this nine hundred page

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Speaker 2: plus document that had tongues wagging all summer has been

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Speaker 2: hired by the Transition team. Tom Homan will be the

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Speaker 2: border Czar for Trump two point zero, coming back into

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Speaker 2: the fold. He was already part of the Trump administration

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Speaker 2: last time around. In his coming back here senior immigration

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Speaker 2: official in one point zero, Donald Trump is actually using

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Speaker 2: the term border zar, emulating what Joe Biden was doing

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Speaker 2: with Kamala Harris. Let's reassemble our panel. Genie Schanzano was

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Speaker 2: with this Democratic analyst and Bloomberg Politics contributor, political science

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Speaker 2: professor at Ioni University, joined today by Lester Munson, Republican

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Speaker 2: strategist bg R Group. Great to see both of you

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Speaker 2: here and welcome Lester. I don't know your thoughts. I

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Speaker 2: know you listen to our conversation, but I haven't had

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Speaker 2: a chance to talk to you. In the break here,

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Speaker 2: Kevin Roberts is now out of the cold will be

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Speaker 2: helping to influence the transition. How do you see it, Well, I.

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Speaker 5: Think that's not totally unexpected at all. The purpose of

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Speaker 5: Heritage and these other think tanks in town is to

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Speaker 5: offer policy suggestions to policy makers, whether they're in the

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Speaker 5: executive branch or the legislative branch. Very natural that after

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Speaker 5: the campaign is over, that these ideas they surfaced in

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Speaker 5: their twenty twenty five report would be considered by the

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Speaker 5: incoming Trump administration. And certainly some of the personnel recommendations

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Speaker 5: I think are already starting to work out in that

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Speaker 5: report's favor, and there will be some other victories for

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Speaker 5: them as well, at least some other things that aren't victories.

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Speaker 5: The thing that struck me Joe, First of all, excellent interview,

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Speaker 5: and I did learn a lot, and I loved your

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Speaker 5: comparison of the hometowns. The interesting thing for me is

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Speaker 5: that this is a think tank that makes policy suggestions

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Speaker 5: but also has some rather inflammatory language about burning down institutions. That's,

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Speaker 5: for me is kind of the strange value add here

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Speaker 5: from Heritage Foundation. I'm not sure how helpful that is.

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Speaker 5: At the end of the day, we're certainly getting plenty

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Speaker 5: of fiery metaphors and adjectives from the candidates. I don't

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Speaker 5: know that we need them from think tanks.

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Speaker 2: Also, I get you there, and he did. I was

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Speaker 2: actually going to ask him that, but he did make

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Speaker 2: clear that he was using figurative language and referring to

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Speaker 2: burning down institutions. But fighting fire with fire is a

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Speaker 2: big theme in his book, Genie. He talks about rekindling

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Speaker 2: the fire of the American tradition, burning away the rot,

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Speaker 2: a long, controlled burn of targets like the FBI, which

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Speaker 2: again he said was not literal. The book's original subtitle,

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Speaker 2: in fact, was burning down Washington to save America. But

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Speaker 2: as the Democrat on our panel, Genie, after listening to

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Speaker 2: him talk for the better part of twenty minutes about

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Speaker 2: all a lot of different issues and what was not

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Speaker 2: a confrontational conversation, I wonder if it makes you feel

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Speaker 2: more comfortable about any of the contents here.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree with Lester. It was an excellent conversation,

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Speaker 6: and it was collegial and I learned a lot. I

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Speaker 6: have not read his new book, but I have read

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Speaker 6: and written about Project twenty twenty five And what struck

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Speaker 6: me as you asked that last question is the fact

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Speaker 6: that one of the pillars of Project twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 6: which Kevin Roberts talks about, is that we are going

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Speaker 6: to secure our individual liberty. And that was in the

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Speaker 6: context you asked that question about transgender issues. And I

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Speaker 6: think it is quite the example to think about, since

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Speaker 6: I played such a role in the election. And of

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Speaker 6: course what he came back and said was anything but

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Speaker 6: about the protection of liberty. What he said when you

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Speaker 6: asked him to differentiate between children and adults was he's

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Speaker 6: talking about everybody. That he is concerned indeed that adults

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Speaker 6: who choose to live their life in this way may

439
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 6: infect children, infect other adults. This is why, as we

440
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 6: look back, you have places like Politico and others refer

441
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 6: to this as a Christian nationalist authoritarian movement, because while

442
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 6: it wraps itself in a conservative dogma, the reality is

443
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 6: when they talk about liberty, they talk about God given liberty,

444
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 6: that is, the liberty to live as he believes God

445
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 6: wants us to, not as we in the United States do.

446
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 6: And that's why they talk about ending separation of church

447
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 6: and state. And of course I agree with Lester, you know,

448
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 6: take away the fiery language they are talking about eliminating

449
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 6: the FBI, eliminating the Department of Commerce, eliminating the Department

450
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 6: of Education. No question, all of these can be curbed.

451
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 6: And there's a lot of blow in DC that can

452
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 6: be cut, no question. But this is a dramatic document,

453
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 6: and there is a reason Donald Trump moved away from

454
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 6: it in the campaign because he knew it would be

455
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 6: unpopular with the American public. And lo and behold a

456
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 6: few days later, what did he do? He nominates to

457
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 6: run our immigration in the Border, one of the contributors.

458
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 6: So it is worth everybody reading Project twenty twenty five,

459
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 6: even if twenty five percent of it gets into policy.

460
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 6: It is a dramatic shift in what has been US

461
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 6: history and US policy.

462
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, take it from me. It's a long read, lester.

463
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 2: I'm struck by the similarity in the language that we're

464
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 2: hearing between some conservatives and progressives following the election. The

465
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 2: aforementioned Kevin Roberts, in his forward for Project twenty twenty five,

466
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 2: talks about under our constitution the elites here and under

467
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 2: our constitution the equality that has provided. He writes nearly

468
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: every top tier US university president or Wall Street hedge

469
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 2: fund manager has more in common with a social a

470
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: European head of state than with the parents at a

471
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 2: high school football game in Waco, Texas. Get these lines.

472
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: Many elites, he says, entire identity, it seems, is wrapped

473
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 2: up in their sense of superiority over those people. But

474
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 2: under our constitution, he writes, they are the mere equals

475
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: of the workers who shower after work instead of before. Right,

476
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: that's Kevin Roberts Heritage Foundation, Primila Giapaul, who is the

477
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 2: head of the Progressive Caucus in the House. We have

478
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: become a party of elites, she writes, choosing the same word,

479
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 2: whether we abandon working class people, whether they abandon us,

480
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 2: whether it's some combination of all of the above. Do

481
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: we need to get Kevin Roberts and Primila Giapaul into

482
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 2: a room to solve this?

483
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, Joe, you know, it's fascinating that the civil wars

484
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 5: inside each party seem more compelling to the fighters than

485
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 5: the actual conflict between the parties themselves.

486
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 4: And I think, yes, part of.

487
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 5: This is because of the the changing nature of the

488
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 5: way we vote. Right, It's not about persuading the middle anymore,

489
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 5: or the undecided or the independence. It's about getting the

490
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 5: low propensity voters on your side to actually show up

491
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 5: and vote. That's the mechanism that matters. That's the revolution

492
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 5: that Trump actually brought to the Republican Party was less

493
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 5: about the yelling and screaming and more about he just

494
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 5: got people to show up who would otherwise not vote.

495
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 5: The Democrats lost ten million votes from twenty twenty to

496
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four. For whatever reason, Joe Biden was able

497
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 5: to get those ten million people to show up and

498
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 5: Kamala Harris wasn't. And I have a feeling what Democrats

499
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 5: are going to spend a lot of time trying to

500
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 5: figure out is how do we get those ten million

501
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 5: people back to the voting booth showing up to vote

502
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 5: for our candidate. That way we can win. So this

503
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 5: like civil war inside the two parties, is about trading

504
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 5: off a few elite votes for a lot of votes

505
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 5: maybe more at the bottom of the economic spectrum. That

506
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 5: might be a little bit healthy, but it is. It

507
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 5: is kind of fascinating that both parties are doing pretty

508
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 5: much the exact same thing, Isn't that right?

509
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: What a great conversation with our panel. Can't do this

510
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 2: anywhere else, Jennie Shanzano. Thank you, of course, Bloomberg Politics

511
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: contributor Lester Munths and bg our group. There's a lot

512
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 2: to think about. We have a lot of questions to

513
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 2: answer as we make our way to the next administration.

514
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

515
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appocarplay and then

516
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: Rouno with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever

517
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

518
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: We're back on Bloomberg TV and Radio from the nation's capital,

519
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: back from world headquarters in New York, following many days

520
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 2: of counting votes, and we're not done yet. The House

521
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 2: has still not been called. This week after we've got

522
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 2: nearly twenty outstanding House races, a lot of them in

523
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: California where the balance of power will be decided, and

524
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: it's looking like it will be decided in favor of Republicans.

525
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 2: Of the nineteen races still not called. Republicans only need

526
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 2: to win five, Democrats need to win fifteen. That's where

527
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: we are in sports. Brad Howard, an expert on all

528
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: things House, joins us right now from his perch at

529
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: Corkoran Street Brad was a chief of staff in the House,

530
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 2: Stephanie Murphy, as a matter of fact, who you see

531
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: quite often on this program, the Democrat from Florida, a

532
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: blue dog Democrat, had floor privileges and knows exactly what

533
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: this moment is when we're trying to find out who's

534
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 2: in charge, who's going to run the committees, will there

535
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 2: be a power sharing agreement. All of this stuff is

536
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: still possible, by the way, because if you were listening

537
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 2: closely to what I said, Democrats actually could still win

538
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: the House. We could still have divided government. It's just

539
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: a less likely scenario with the paths that we're seeing

540
00:27:54,560 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 2: right now. But following our conversation with Kevin Roberts, I

541
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: wonder what Brad Howard has to think about our conversation

542
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 2: about the working class, about why things went the way

543
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 2: they did last week. And glad to see right now, Brad,

544
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 2: it's my first chance to compare notes since the election,

545
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: and I hope that you're doing well. Before I get

546
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: into the big picture stuff, just give me your read

547
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: on the House. Are you giving this to Republicans or

548
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: you're waiting for every vote to be counted?

549
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 7: Well, you know, well we should wait till we at

550
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 7: least have a call on the remaining races, at least

551
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 7: enough to determine there's two eighteen. But it does remind

552
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 7: me of that scene in domin Demmer where he's like,

553
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 7: you've got a one million chants. He's saying, so there's

554
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 7: still a chance say it. So you know, look, I

555
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 7: do think the Republicans had a great night. I think

556
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 7: the Democrats have got to figure out, you know, what

557
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 7: the problem with our brand is. And I've heard too

558
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 7: many of my own party try to say, well, America

559
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 7: is racist, or it's you know, misogynistic, or you know,

560
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 7: they didn't know how they were voting, or they're tricked

561
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 7: by the conservative media. And if your premise of this

562
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 7: is entering the conversation with assuming voters were somehow tricked

563
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 7: or duped, then you're never going to learn the lesson.

564
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 7: The Democratic brand was resoundingly rejected in all nearly all demographics,

565
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 7: and we have to figure out why. And the conversation

566
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 7: has got to start with not with blaming voters, but

567
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 7: with understanding voters. And you know, as a party, it's

568
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 7: our responsibility to go to the voters, not to sit

569
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 7: here and expect voters to come to us. Until we

570
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 7: figure that out, we're going to continue to lose. And

571
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 7: so I hope that we looked at the blue dogs

572
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 7: for a lot of the answers. If you look back

573
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 7: some of the closest races in the country, Jared Golden

574
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 7: Domain and Marie Glusen camp Perez of Washington State where

575
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 7: blue Dog co chairs, and they won. They outperformed the

576
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 7: Democratic ticket wildly. We're still waiting on Mary Peltola and

577
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 7: Alaska and a few of the blue Dog endorse candidates

578
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 7: in California, but so far the blue doog in comments

579
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 7: have held up very well.

580
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: Well interesting. So with your blue dog hat on, I

581
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: want to spin back to the conversation we had earlier

582
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: this hour with Kevin Roberts of the Heritage Foundation. He's

583
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: out with a new book, Brad you might have heard about. He's,

584
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: of course, the force, the driving force behind Project twenty

585
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: twenty five, and he writes in his forward for the

586
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: project that many elites' is the term elites entire identity,

587
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 2: it seems, is wrapped up in their sense of superiority

588
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: over the working class and what he refers to here

589
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 2: as parents at a high school football game in Waco,

590
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: Texas under our constitution, though he says they are mere

591
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: equals of the workers who shower after work instead of before.

592
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: It's actually pretty good writing, and it sounds a heck

593
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 2: of a lot like Primila Jayapaul who says we've become

594
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: a party of elites and talks about the working class

595
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: abandoning the Democratic Party or is it the other way around?

596
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 2: What does it tell us when the two ends of

597
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: the political spectrum come around and meet in this way

598
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: in the.

599
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 7: Narrative, Well, there's no doubt that there's a populism streak

600
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 7: running through the people at the moment, you know, and

601
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 7: I think dimocrats are a couple structural problems that they're

602
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 7: plaguing or party at the moment. I think we've got

603
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 7: to stop letting kind of young, college educated wide urban

604
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 7: liberals dictate to the rest of the party, particularly in

605
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 7: the social issues. You know, there's rapid change right now

606
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 7: in the American society, from automation, UH to technolo technological

607
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 7: to you know, social civil rights movement. There's a lot

608
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 7: coming at people and to we've got we've got to

609
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 7: understand why some of them can't move as fast as

610
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 7: we would like and we have to have patience, and

611
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 7: we have to, you know, come with them. I think

612
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 7: the second thing is you have a big disconnect in

613
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 7: the organized labor movement. You have the national chapters which

614
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 7: are adamantly Democratic and and and you know and work

615
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 7: with Democratic Party. And you have the rank and file, which,

616
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 7: as we've seen in this election, and the working class

617
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,959
Speaker 7: warm whilely to Trump. So if Democratic Party leaders are

618
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,479
Speaker 7: listening to the national labor chapters, there's a big disconnect there.

619
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 7: And if we're listening to them but getting none of

620
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 7: their votes, then something's off kilter. And so we've got

621
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 7: to ask the questions about why that disconnect is there

622
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 7: and start listening to the rank and file union members

623
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 7: that are out there in the country, and they're telling

624
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 7: us what they want, right. They're telling us they resent

625
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 7: the fact that if you have a college degree, it

626
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 7: means you can't be successful. They resent the fact that

627
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 7: the rich are getting richer and the hard working Americans

628
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 7: aren't keeping getting ahead. I think Democrats ignored the alarm

629
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 7: bells around inflation too late, and when we finally did,

630
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 7: the American people said, well, if you can't even acknowledge

631
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 7: that there's a problem why would I like you to

632
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 7: fix it? And keep in mind, Donald Trump one with

633
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 7: one very simple premise. It's been the same premise he's

634
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 7: had since twenty sixteen. Things are broke, and I'm going

635
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 7: to fix it. And the Democrats didn't have much to

636
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 7: come back with. We didn't have a consistent message, and

637
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 7: the closing visuals of the campaign were Trump wearing an

638
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 7: orange workers vest, driving a garbage truck in McDonald's commas

639
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 7: was with Beyonce, and in the lips in Washington, DC.

640
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 3: You know.

641
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: So, I think we need to look at our messaging.

642
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 7: We need to look who we're listening to and who

643
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 7: we're talking to, and we've got to have some tough conversations.

644
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 7: I think everybody's right and everybody's wrong. So there's a

645
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 7: lot to look at.

646
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 2: Great analysis. You use the word resent, Brad Bernie Sanders

647
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: used the word angry in his interview on Meet the

648
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: Press yesterday.

649
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 8: Let's listen, the working people of this country are extremely angry.

650
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 4: They have a right to be angry.

651
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 8: In the richest country in the history of the world today,

652
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 8: the people on top are doing phenomenally well, while sixty

653
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 8: percent of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Where is

654
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 8: the Democratic Party? Are they prepared to stand up to

655
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 8: these powerful corporate interests, raise the minimum wage, fight for

656
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 8: healthcare for all people, make sure that all of our

657
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 8: kids get the quality education that they need, expand social security.

658
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: Of course, he's an independent, not a Democrat. But Brad,

659
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: how come it's so easy for everyone to have this

660
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: conversation today instead of last Monday morning?

661
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 7: Well, I think number one, I want to point out

662
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 7: that Kamala Harris got a higher percent of the vote

663
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 7: in her race in Vermont than Bernie Singers did in his.

664
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 7: So first number two is that all Bernie's already trying

665
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 7: to prescribe solutions, And this is part of the problem

666
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 7: with the Democratic Party. The solutions we're prescribing, Like Americans

667
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 7: generally support, but they don't like us. You saw in

668
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 7: states where they voted to codify abortion rights but yet

669
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 7: voted for Donald Trump. They voted to codify paid family

670
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 7: leave but voted for Donald Trump. So what's it tell

671
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 7: you when they generally like our solutions and our policy

672
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 7: positions but they don't like us. That is a branding

673
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 7: and connection problem, Like you cannot show up in the

674
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 7: black and Hispanic communities two months before an election and

675
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 7: expect them to listen. It looks the way it is.

676
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 7: It looks like you're pandering. And so we've got to

677
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 7: build inroads in these communities. We've got to get off

678
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 7: these college campuses and into We've got to get out

679
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 7: of the boardrooms and into the break rooms. We've got

680
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 7: to really have conversations these workers. And I think number

681
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 7: two is the resentment is so when you look at,

682
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 7: for instance, the Biden college student loan debt relief, the

683
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 7: people that had worked hard their whole life, who passed

684
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 7: on the fancy vacations, who passed on the fancy cars

685
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 7: and fancy houses and script and saved to put their

686
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 7: kids to college, and then yet they see their neighbors,

687
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 7: who you know, lived irresponsibly, all of a sudden, get

688
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 7: a check from the government and unforgiven, that builds resentment.

689
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 7: I'm not saying it's bad policy. I'm just saying it

690
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 7: builds resentment. And so we've got to understand that there's

691
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 7: a popular streak in the government in the electric right

692
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 7: now that's looking at an unfair system. And when you

693
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 7: think the system is unfair and it's broken, you're going

694
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 7: to go to the guy that'f telling you he's going

695
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 7: to fix it. You're not going to go to the

696
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 7: party that's acknowledged that, that's refusing to acknowledge anything's broken.

697
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 7: And when we said defending democracy, I think a lot

698
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 7: of voters took that as defending the status quo of

699
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 7: defending the broken system, and I think that backfired of us.

700
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 2: Wow. I hope everyone understands here that people are going

701
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 2: to be hiring Brad Howard for the next two years

702
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 2: to explain this to them in a room. And you're

703
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: getting it right now on this Monday here on Bloomberg. Brad,

704
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: you're a creature of the house. Bring us inside what's

705
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: about to happen here because Hakem Jeffreys is going to

706
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: either have a razor thin majority where he's going to

707
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 2: leave the Party of the Insurgent and see which one

708
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 2: is actually more impactful, which one's easier.

709
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, obviously being the minority is always easier.

710
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 7: You know, the responsive governing is hard and Republicans have

711
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 7: figured that out this last two years. What I will

712
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 7: say with this, does you know we know somely close

713
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 7: margin regardless of who wins, right, that's for sure? What

714
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 7: that does is that actually empowers groups like the Blue

715
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 7: Dogs on the Hill and the modern Republicans, the Republican

716
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 7: governance groups, so to speak, because we've seen that the

717
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 7: far far right, the kind of what we call the

718
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 7: right wing Maga crowd, doesn't want to govern. And so

719
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 7: you know, Speaker Johnson has struggled over the last year

720
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 7: and a half to put together a group of Republicans

721
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 7: that can pass a rule to put things on the

722
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 7: floor as simple as funding the government, and he's had

723
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 7: to rely on Leader Jeffries to deliver democratic votes so

724
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 7: they can govern. I suspect that's going to continue. And

725
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 7: so really the key makers here regardless if the Democrats

726
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 7: have the majority or if the Republicans have the majority,

727
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 7: it's going to be groups like the Blue Dog Democrats,

728
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 7: of which I know well, and the New Dems, of

729
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 7: which I know well, and the problem Solfer's Caucus, like

730
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 7: these moderate coalitions. There is a you talk about a

731
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 7: power sharing agreement, there won't really be a formal one.

732
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 7: There's a there's always an informal powersharing agreement that determines

733
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 7: committee sizes and stuff, but there may actually be forced

734
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 7: into an informal power sharing agreement because if the far

735
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 7: Far Ride is never going to vote to allow Speaker

736
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 7: Johnson to bring responsible legislation to the floor, he's going

737
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 7: to have to rely on Leader Jeffries. And Leader Jefferies

738
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 7: has shown that he will put the governing and the

739
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 7: American people over parties in politics.

740
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 2: And so, and I'll add two.

741
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 7: Leader Jeffries, you got to remember didn't force all the

742
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 7: Democrats to vote a certain way in the last two years.

743
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 7: He's allowed them to vote as they need to vote.

744
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 7: So when they come together, he's in a strong position

745
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 7: to help this Democratic Party heal and and and because

746
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 7: he's you know, he allowed people to vote the way

747
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 7: he need to vote. So he's going to be a

748
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 7: great leader in resource to turn to as this party

749
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 7: emerges and figures out where to go forward.

750
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 2: Well that's why I ask what might have sounded like

751
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 2: a weird question, because Speaker Johnson, if this is in

752
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: fact going to be a sin Republican majority, will need

753
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 2: Hakim Jeffries. He will need Democrats to get things done,

754
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 2: which makes him enormously influential in the minority, doesn't it.

755
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, And keep in mind, like when I was Chief

756
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 7: of Staff to Congress from Stephanie Murphy. She was leader

757
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 7: of the Blue Dogs. When we came in, the Republicans

758
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 7: had full control of government, They had the House to

759
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 7: sit in the White House. This was in twenty seventeen,

760
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 7: So you know, I have a lot of experience personally

761
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 7: navigating to being a Democrat, you know, in a year.

762
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 7: But to your point about why now people are having

763
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 7: these conversations and we haven't really had before, You've got

764
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 7: to keep in mind when Trump won in twenty sixteen,

765
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 7: it shocked everyone, and a lot of people chalk that

766
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 7: up to, well, he'll really won the popular vote. Well,

767
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 7: Russia intervened, Well, it was the James Comey letter, right,

768
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 7: And so we never had the discussion the hard lessons

769
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 7: because we thought we won. And then you go to

770
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 7: twenty twenty and they did win, and I think we

771
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 7: took the wrong lessons from both of those. And so

772
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 7: this is the first time in two presidential cycles that

773
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 7: we've had a tough conversation internally as a party. And

774
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,240
Speaker 7: I think what caught a lot of people off guard.

775
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 7: I think all the polls show that Trump was a

776
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 7: slight favorite to win, and he did. But I don't

777
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 7: think everyone suspected the incredible growth and support he had

778
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 7: across nearly every single demographic and a clean sweep of

779
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 7: the battleground states, and even you look at areas at

780
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 7: Cook County, Illinois where Chicago is, he has a twelve

781
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 7: to fifteen point swing, double digit swing in his favor,

782
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 7: which is just you know, you've got to really think,

783
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 7: if we're losing the heartland and we're losing votes in

784
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 7: urban areas, what is left.

785
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: Absolutely incredible in such great analysis by Brad Howard, I

786
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 2: can't thank you enough Brad for the deep dive today.

787
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 2: He's at Corkoran Street Group where he is the founder

788
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: and president, as mentioned former Chief of Staff Congress Swim

789
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 2: and Stephanie Murphy. Great to see you, Brad.

790
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast can

791
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play

792
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: and then Rodoto with the Bloomberg Business Ad. You can

793
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New

794
00:39:54,520 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: York station, Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

795
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 2: Here on Balance of Power, on Bloomberg Radio on the

796
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 2: satellite and on YouTube, where you can find us right

797
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 2: now search Bloomberg Business News Live. We've got the cameras

798
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: set up for you here and a lot to talk

799
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 2: about as we wait for California. Throw another log on

800
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 2: the fire. They still have almost five million ballots five

801
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 2: million votes to count in California, which means it could

802
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: be another week, another two, I don't know. We'll find

803
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: out here, nine hundred and fifty thousand in Los Angeles

804
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 2: County alone, and they get thirty days to count in

805
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: California as we wait to see who's going to control

806
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,439
Speaker 2: the House. This is why things are taking so long.

807
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 2: In a world in which we can all vote on

808
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 2: American Idol and solve this with millions of people weighing

809
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 2: in in a matter of seconds, we'll wait weeks for

810
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: the state of California to choose its representatives. Here in Washington, DC,

811
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 2: a little different. In the Senate, we've just got one

812
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 2: left that's Arizona, which Donald Trump won over the weekend.

813
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 2: It looks like we've got some tickets splitting there with

814
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: Diego the Democrat leading Carrie Lake. Big questions as well

815
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 2: about the transition, and when we talk about what's happening

816
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill versus what's happening at the White House

817
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: versus what's happening on the campaign trail. There are very

818
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 2: few people you can call to hit all three. Ron

819
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: Bonjean is one of them. As political rights he is

820
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: one of the most popular communicators in Washington, and that

821
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 2: is quite an achievement in a town with this much

822
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 2: hot air. Chief spokesman for the Speaker of the House,

823
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: for the Senate Majority leader. He also helped in the

824
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: transition last time around, and he knows a thing or

825
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 2: two about what we're discussing. Having also worked in the

826
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 2: executive branch. Ron Bonjean is also a founder partner at

827
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: a firm you hear a lot about on this broadcast,

828
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: Rock Solutions, one of the pillars of K Street. Ron,

829
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 2: we finally got you in. It's great to see you.

830
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,479
Speaker 2: Welcome to Bloomberg's Balance of Power. What a treat.

831
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 9: Thanks you much, Thank you so much. It's an honor

832
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 9: to be here, and thank you for that.

833
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 2: Well, my god, I hope I came close, because I've

834
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 2: got some questions for you, and I'm really wondering how

835
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 2: you're feeling about a lot of things. I'm going to

836
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 2: start with something rather esoteric, and that is the leadership

837
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 2: battle that's taking place here and about to unfold in

838
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 2: the Senate. It looks like now that Donald Trump has won,

839
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 2: the deck may be shuffled.

840
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 4: Here.

841
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 2: We were talking about John Thune versus John Cornyn. There

842
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 2: was Rick Scott over on the side, but nobody saw

843
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 2: that as a real possibility. Now MAGA is endorsing him,

844
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 2: not Trump, but Tucker Carlson and many others. As we

845
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: heard from Rick Scott, Senator from Florida on Sunday Morning television.

846
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 10: Let's listen, we have got to change the way the

847
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 10: Senate is run to get Trump's agenda done. What is

848
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 10: going to take is somebody's going to take the time

849
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 10: to sit down and bring people together. We've got to get,

850
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 10: for a lot of things, sixty votes in the Senate,

851
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 10: so we've got to have somebody's going to sit down

852
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 10: with Democrats and say, how do we balance a budget?

853
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 10: How do we do these things? Okay, that's all I've done.

854
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 10: I'm a deal guy.

855
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: It's the secret ballot though, Ron Bonjin, could MAGA change

856
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 2: the order here in the leadership in the Senate or

857
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: is this just a diversion for you and I to

858
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: talk about today.

859
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's really tough when it's a secret ballot. You know,

860
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 9: if it was a transparent ballot and senators had to

861
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 9: put their names on it, there Republican mega constituents will

862
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 9: be lighting them up. I find it highly unlikely that

863
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 9: Rick Scott, actually Senator Rick Scott, actually affects this vote

864
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 9: tremendously with this outside campaign to persuade the inside. This

865
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 9: is an insider's game. While Donald Trumps president is president elect,

866
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 9: you know, in ways has a tremendous amount of power

867
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 9: going in and is already making big moves. You know,

868
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 9: senators like this is a very club like atmosphere. It's

869
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 9: very difficult to make the changes that Rick Scott would

870
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 9: like to see. And imagine if Rick Scott forced his

871
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 9: way in the way he's doing it right now, how

872
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 9: would he be able to manage that conference? You know,

873
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 9: going forward he's going to need them. So, you know,

874
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 9: the pressure on the outside can backfire on him. And

875
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 9: if it were to work, there would be a lot

876
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 9: of I would say, you know, a sour taste in Republicans' mouths.

877
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: Does Trump care himself or does he figure whoever wins

878
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 2: here he can affect, whether it's Thune corner Scott.

879
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 9: Listen, if Trump knew who the winner was going to

880
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 9: be out of this, he would probably back that person

881
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 9: because you don't going in being the most you know,

882
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 9: president elect, you're not going to want to back a loser.

883
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 9: That's a bad message. You're sending it right away that

884
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 9: you made a strategic mistake. So he's being very careful.

885
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 9: And I don't think that anybody telling him to stay out.

886
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 9: I thought what Senator Thune said about him staying out

887
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 9: of the race. I thought, okay, well, you ask him

888
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 9: to stay out of the race means that he's likely

889
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 9: going to weigh in at some point. Then if you're

890
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 9: asking him to stay out, but we'll see what happens.

891
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, or give you a read on the House. Does

892
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 2: it go Republican? The math is certainly pointing that way.

893
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 2: And if that happens, does Mike Johnson remain speaker?

894
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's likely going to remain in Republican hands. You know,

895
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 9: all eyes you know are out west, and we're talking

896
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 9: about you know, plus one, two, three, four votes, you know,

897
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 9: something along those lines, A very handful of votes that

898
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 9: would be you know, and it's better to be the

899
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 9: majority than the minority, because you're setting the agenda. You're

900
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 9: setting the committee schedules everything hinges on that. However, this

901
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 9: is going to be very typical for Johnson because what

902
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 9: if what if a member of Congress gets sick, a

903
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 9: Republican and gets sick. What if there's a car that's

904
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 9: broken down the highway? He needs every vote on the

905
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 9: big ones to make account. And you know, I think

906
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 9: for the next decade we're going to have back and forth,

907
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 9: small margin Democrats, small margin Republican. So this is a

908
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 9: this is an area that Johnson has operated decently well in.

909
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 9: He's thrown into the mix during the midterm, like mid year,

910
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 9: and he's doing well. And I think he knows how

911
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 9: to how to handle it with Trump on his side,

912
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 9: by the way, which might help affect how the Freedom

913
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:36,959
Speaker 9: Caucus operates and relates to him.

914
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 2: So then to the transition, we're touching all three bases

915
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: with Ron Bonjie. We've got a couple of names here.

916
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 2: I'm sure you're hearing a lot more than those are

917
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: being published. At least Dephonic to the UN Tom Holman

918
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 2: is going to be borders are and we understand that

919
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 2: Stephen Miller is going to get a deputy a chief

920
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: of staff role when it comes to policy. In this case,

921
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: you've actually helped to orchestrate transitions like these ron Bonjin.

922
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 2: When will it be complete? And when you go downstairs

923
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 2: out to dinner or for a drink on K Street,

924
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 2: you go into the prime rib next door, what's the

925
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 2: number one conversation? Is it tariffs or taxes or what?

926
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 4: Yeah?

927
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 9: No, Look, I worked on the first Trump transition. We

928
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 9: were in charge of making sure those nominees got across

929
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:28,720
Speaker 9: the line, got confirmed. And you know, right now Trump

930
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 9: is very clearly making moves early. He is not sitting

931
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 9: still going forward. You know a lot of other president

932
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 9: elects carefully plan and time out their announcements. That's not

933
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 9: the way Trump does it. He rolls them out there.

934
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 9: I mean, the transition really hasn't officially begun. I mean

935
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 9: they have not moved into I mean, they's still negotiating

936
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 9: about moving into the large GSA building that's used by

937
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 9: thousands of Trump team members to prepare, you know, prepare

938
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 9: nominees for confirmation. But I'd say that the number one

939
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 9: thing that CASTRT is looking at is who's going to

940
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 9: be in power under the Trump in the Trump cabinet.

941
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,439
Speaker 9: So right now, I was just hearing at State. Could

942
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 9: it be Senator haggardy Er, could it be Senator Rubio?

943
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 9: That was the latest I just heard before coming in here.

944
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 9: You know who's making it, who's not making it. I

945
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 9: mean there was look at center, Pompeo left by the wayside,

946
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 9: not center. Second, former Secretary of State Pompel left by

947
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 9: the wayside. So now underneath that, sure, there are a

948
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 9: lot of policies that that organizations now have to get

949
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 9: ready for. But you have to see the details of

950
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 9: those policies, and you need to know who's in charge.

951
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 9: We're still, you know, a little ways away from January twentieth,

952
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 9: but I'll tell you Donald Trump is making moves. I

953
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 9: think he's going to make the most moves that any

954
00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 9: presidential elect president elect has ever done, affecting policy and

955
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 9: affecting change before he's even entered office. I mean, look,

956
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 9: he already talked to Putin with Musk on the phone,

957
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 9: and he also told him don't mess with Ukraine. I

958
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 9: have weapons and only use them. He's not even sure,

959
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 9: he's not even sworn him yet.

960
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how appropriate a lot of people

961
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 2: feel that is, but that's where we are. And apparently

962
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 2: they did get on the phone together, Ron Bonjin. What's

963
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 2: it going to be like? And there's some shades of

964
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty here. Do you think that the Middle East unfolds,

965
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 2: Ukraine unfolds around the time of the inaugural whatever the

966
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 2: next chapters are in those two theaters?

967
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 9: Well, in terms of foreign policy, I think that world

968
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 9: leaders view Donald Trump as an unpredictable one, an unpredictable person.

969
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 9: They're going to really tread with caution with him. I

970
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 9: mean they did so during his first administration very carefully.

971
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 9: They're going to do it again. And so Trump is

972
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 9: going to lay out his red lines out there. Glad

973
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 9: he just did with Putin. It's unimaginable to see what

974
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 9: will be like going in at this point, because I

975
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 9: think every day feels like a giant news cycle. But

976
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 9: you know clearly there's some there will be hesitation among China, Russia.

977
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 9: I ran I'm making big moves on Donald Trump's watch.

978
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 2: Fascinating stuff here. As someone who helped to orchestrate the

979
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 2: last transition, I'm just curious. Lastly, what you expect to hear.

980
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of attention paid to Project twenty

981
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 2: twenty five and that second pillar that includes personnel. There's

982
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,760
Speaker 2: also been reporting that because there's no contract or agreement

983
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 2: with the GSA, the transition team is doing its own

984
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,760
Speaker 2: vetting using a private security firm instead of the FBI.

985
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 2: What does all that result in?

986
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 9: Yeah, Look, I would say that, you know, Donald Trump

987
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 9: doesn't adhere to norms and the standards that are set

988
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 9: out there.

989
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 2: It's very clear.

990
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 9: We've seen it in all over year, so it's likely

991
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 9: going to you know, this transition. I think they need

992
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 9: that infrastructure that will be helpful. I you know, being

993
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 9: there on site. I mean we had a mock hearing room.

994
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 9: We knew where every transition team was around the nominees

995
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 9: in one building, so we could get to them quickly

996
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 9: and have conversations that needed to take place. Can it

997
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 9: occur outside of that, Yes, I would say the number

998
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 9: one target, and I don't know Donald Trump's mind right now,

999
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 9: is the Pentagon. I think that there are generals that

1000
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 9: he doesn't like in there, who were you know that

1001
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 9: he wants to get out and install his own people in,

1002
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 9: get get rid of some of the bureaucracy that he

1003
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 9: finds would be challenging to his ideas. I don't know

1004
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 9: what those are, but I have heard from those connected

1005
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 9: to the Trump world that that's that's a big goal, is.

1006
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,919
Speaker 2: Ron bonjing. I hope this won't be so long before

1007
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 2: we get you back. It's great to see you, and

1008
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: thank you so much for the nites with his experience

1009
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 2: from the transition from the Capitol and from the White House.

1010
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 2: Co founder partner Rock Solutions, Ron Bonjine with us on

1011
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 2: the Fastest show in Politics. Thanks for listening to the

1012
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 2: Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you

1013
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 2: haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts,

1014
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 2: and you can find us live every weekday from Washington,

1015
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 2: DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.