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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to Coast to Coast AM. Connie willis

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Speaker 2: here and join the music right there along with you.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad that you do like what we've got going on. Again,

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Speaker 2: Thanks for all the texting and the tweeting and all

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Speaker 2: that you do. I really do appreciate it. You are

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Speaker 2: very very kind. Just a reminder too, when I was

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Speaker 2: on last weekend for Richard Serett and prayer still going

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Speaker 2: to him and his family, I wanted we had on

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Speaker 2: the air Douglas James Cottrell and he he had website problems,

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Speaker 2: so he was talking about a class that he had

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Speaker 2: for fifty bucks you can learn about him and what

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Speaker 2: you can do and what he can do and all

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Speaker 2: that good stuff, which is an incredible price. So definitely

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Speaker 2: go to it. But I just wanted to clear up

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Speaker 2: the site to go to because a lot of you

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Speaker 2: contacted me on that, and it would be just go

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Speaker 2: to the store that he has, which would be Douglas

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Speaker 2: James Kytrell and that co O T, T R, E

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Speaker 2: L L store dot com and then right there on

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Speaker 2: the front it's got for his class. So I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to make that clear because he was having problems

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Speaker 2: with the site. So that's where you want to go.

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Speaker 2: Make sure it's the store, okay. Also, those of you

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Speaker 2: to go that go to Connie Willis dot com to

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Speaker 2: my site and join my shows, or even if you

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Speaker 2: just go to the email list, always make sure afterwards,

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Speaker 2: specially if you get involved in the email list and

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Speaker 2: put your name in and your your email address, what

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Speaker 2: happens is you should get an email right back directly.

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Speaker 2: So make sure you go immediately after you sign in,

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Speaker 2: you know, within a minute or so, and make sure

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Speaker 2: that you get the email that says thank you, we've

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Speaker 2: got you included. Because a lot of times these servers

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Speaker 2: will well say it's spam, and you know you got

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Speaker 2: to give it permissions to accept it. So if you

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Speaker 2: do go to Connie Willis dot com and say I

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Speaker 2: want to get on your email list, Connie, make sure

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Speaker 2: after you sign in, just go to your mail Okay,

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Speaker 2: just give it a minute or so and go in

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Speaker 2: there and if you don't see anything, check your trash, junk, spam,

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Speaker 2: whatever you have your mailing system, and if you see

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Speaker 2: it there, it will say do you trust this or

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Speaker 2: it'll ask you that and just say yes so you

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Speaker 2: can start getting Otherwise you'll miss all the good stuff.

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Speaker 2: And I don't want you to do that. I don't

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Speaker 2: want you to do that. So open lines.

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Speaker 3: We've got.

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Speaker 2: Our guest is going to stick around with us, Doctor

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Speaker 2: Eric Castletein that has done so many things in his life,

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Speaker 2: and he's going to continue on because he is just

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Speaker 2: that man. You know, one day you know it all,

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Speaker 2: you know, we meet our maker. You're going to be

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Speaker 2: working and having fun and smiling and inventing and doing

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Speaker 2: all this until that last second. I just know you're

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Speaker 2: one of them. I'm with you, and doctor Chris is

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Speaker 2: the same. And I appreciate that in you. I appreciate

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Speaker 2: that in you.

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Speaker 4: Well. Thanks. Like I say, I sometimes tell people I'm

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Speaker 4: Eric hazlteen PhD ADHD.

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Speaker 2: That's true. So before we hit the phones, I do

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Speaker 2: have a question that came to me that they won't

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Speaker 2: be able to call in, so I want to ask

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Speaker 2: you here. This is Tom Hill from Grain Valley, Missouri,

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Speaker 2: and he says he's got a question for you. He said,

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Speaker 2: how much of a voice sample would be needed to

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Speaker 2: recreate someone's voice? And he said, due to cancer surgery

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Speaker 2: and the follow up radiation treatment. I have lost my

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Speaker 2: voice and would love to have it back, even if artificial.

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Speaker 2: And it's interesting because you're saying, hey, there's so much

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Speaker 2: good and what a great reason why.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, it depends on what it is you wanted

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Speaker 4: to say and so forth. But generally, about ten minutes

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Speaker 4: is you need and the more variety there is, the better.

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Speaker 4: But I've seen people do a credible job with just

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Speaker 4: ten minutes. Some are less than that. They give you

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Speaker 4: specific words they want you to say. But I think

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Speaker 4: it would be definitely possible for him to if he

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Speaker 4: had samples of his voice from before. There are AI

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Speaker 4: platforms where you could train it up and then he

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Speaker 4: could just type in what he wants it to say

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Speaker 4: and it would come out in his voice.

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Speaker 2: Amazing that. You know, there's so much amazing things that

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Speaker 2: can't come out of this, Like you were saying that

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Speaker 2: we can't. I don't even think we can battle what's

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Speaker 2: out there. But I am concerned myself about the values

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Speaker 2: and the ethic part of it. Got to figure all

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Speaker 2: that out in all the laws, and I'm sure there'll

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Speaker 2: be some battles for that along the way. So let's

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Speaker 2: go to Wildcard line number one. Linn out of Orange County, California. Lynn, Welcome,

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Speaker 2: you're on coast to cos A in Yes, the doctor.

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Speaker 5: Said the past hour that we didn't have to worry

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Speaker 5: about AIS and emotions unless they were connected biologically to

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Speaker 5: sell that would create emotions, and then we'd have to

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Speaker 5: worry about that. But that could happen. It seems like

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Speaker 5: you should have said it has happened, because we've heard

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Speaker 5: all over the news already that they have cloned an embryo.

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Speaker 5: Don't worry. It doesn't have a brain and it doesn't

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Speaker 5: have a heart. But technically an AI doesn't need a

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Speaker 5: heart and it comes with its own brain. So technically,

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Speaker 5: if we're saying that now, we can pretty much be

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Speaker 5: guaranteed they've already created what would be equal to a terminator,

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Speaker 5: whether it's a robot with skin like embryo skin, it's

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Speaker 5: out there. So that's in the present tense. That's not

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Speaker 5: future tents could be. That's a present tense.

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Speaker 4: I don't think we're there yet. Yes, they have cloned

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Speaker 4: pretty significantly sized mammals like sheep, and there are rumors

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Speaker 4: of human cloning in Asian countries, but that's not the

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Speaker 4: same as giving them an AI. But I do think

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Speaker 4: you have a point, caller in that neuroprosthetics are a

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Speaker 4: big deal now where we have very sophisticated electrode implants

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Speaker 4: in the brain, primarily for diseases like parkinsonism, and they

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Speaker 4: both record and they stimulate. And I know a neurosurgeon

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Speaker 4: at Mayo Clinic who has an app on his phone

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Speaker 4: where he monitors the brain activity of patients he's implanted.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's certain that you're going to see

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Speaker 4: AIS connected to neuroprosthetics. And already we have neuroprosthetics that

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Speaker 4: can move artificial limbs, and you can transmit crude thoughts

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Speaker 4: over the Internet by thinking something and then it shows

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Speaker 4: up in someone else's brain. These experiments have already been done.

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Speaker 4: And so I think where you're going to see, what

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Speaker 4: you're talking about, is the interface between AI, neuroprosthetics and

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Speaker 4: the brain and what happens when an AI that has

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Speaker 4: no biological tissue is now plugged into a real brain.

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Speaker 4: It's that could start to generate things like emotions.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, very interesting, Lenn, Thanks for the call. Walkard line

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Speaker 2: number two. I think it's my ed out of new York.

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Speaker 6: Yes, good morning, great program and great bump and music always.

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Speaker 2: Connie, thanks so much.

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Speaker 6: I want to briefly comment on Lyn's point because we

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Speaker 6: heard a headline from George about not using the gammys,

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Speaker 6: which are the over uh and the uh uh single sperm,

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Speaker 6: but creation of life. So I just wanna say, yay, yay,

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Speaker 6: len you you brought up an excellent, interesting point, but

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Speaker 6: a point of clarification and a main question. And I

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Speaker 6: listen over the air. I understand Chris does mind body books,

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Speaker 6: but I didn't get the uh title of at least

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Speaker 6: say her latest book. And the main question happens to

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Speaker 6: deal with some news. I was here in on public

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Speaker 6: radio again. I heard it when it first happened some

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Speaker 6: time ago, but through facial recognition, it seems that, you know,

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Speaker 6: we live kind of in a cast system, and a

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Speaker 6: Robert Williams in front of his wife and two young

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Speaker 6: daughters got arrested behind this facial recognition. A black man

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Speaker 6: spent like thirty hours on some crazy not even a bed,

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Speaker 6: and without any clean water, and of course it was

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Speaker 6: a mistake. So I'd like to know whether either one

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Speaker 6: of you have looked into that. And it seems like

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Speaker 6: there's gonna be sort of like a Scisifian type of

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Speaker 6: struggle because of the society that we live in. And

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Speaker 6: if my question, I'll listen over the air.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Connie, Thanks man.

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Speaker 4: Very insightful question. I appreciate both of them. Well, first

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Speaker 4: of all, the book is The Listening Cure, and it's

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Speaker 4: the story of an unconventional doctor, and doctor Chris is

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Speaker 4: the main author and I'm a very small sub author

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Speaker 4: and talking about the brain. But getting to the point

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Speaker 4: of racially neutral facial recognition, this is a big problem

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Speaker 4: because most of the original face recognition systems were done

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Speaker 4: on Caucasians and so they didn't perform as well on

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Speaker 4: African Americans, and so they were more prone to missus

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Speaker 4: and false positives. And this is a known problem and

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Speaker 4: it stems from what we talked about earlier in the show,

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Speaker 4: where the AI is only as good as the data

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Speaker 4: you feed it, and if there's cultural bias in that,

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Speaker 4: then there will be cultural bias in the AI. And

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Speaker 4: so it's a very important point that's been brought up,

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Speaker 4: and the industry is trying to correct that weakness. I

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Speaker 4: can't say that they're one hundred percent yet, but they're

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Speaker 4: very aware of it.

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Speaker 2: Interesting question. Wild card line number three, Charles out of California.

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Speaker 2: Is it sebastible?

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Speaker 7: What is it?

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry? Oh, okay, there you go.

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Speaker 7: Welcome.

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Speaker 2: You're on a show.

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Speaker 3: Confusing. So one of the topic I spent many years

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Speaker 3: in AI myself. In fact, in the late nineties, I

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Speaker 3: was president to call the Virtual Humans Conference, and at

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Speaker 3: that time we're talking about things like existence, sovereignty, that's

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Speaker 3: sort of thing. How do you determine the boundaries of

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Speaker 3: who you are versus sometimes representing you? And we always

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Speaker 3: thought in theoretical turns that now we're here, I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is the real thing. But the thing I wanted

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Speaker 3: to ask you about now is in political elections and campaigns.

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Speaker 3: In other words, right now, we have thousands and thousands

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Speaker 3: of comments and all kinds of blogs and various websites

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Speaker 3: either being pro putin or claiming that Ukraine attacked Prussia

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Speaker 3: or just you know, crazy stuff like that. Yeah, people

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Speaker 3: believe it. They actually started to go along with this idea.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's kind of scary actually, So I'm kind

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Speaker 3: of wondering how many of those comments are actually coming

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Speaker 3: from Russian AI bots that sort of thing numbers I

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Speaker 3: see over them where people's opinions can be heavily slaved,

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Speaker 3: but it's kind of fake opinions being driven emotions that

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Speaker 3: turn out to reflect in elections. Do you see that

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Speaker 3: sort of happening in the.

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Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely, it has happened. It happened starting in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 4: And the Russians, by the way, are really good at

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Speaker 4: computer science, really good and so absolutely, and I've read

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Speaker 4: that in some cases the majority of material on certain

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Speaker 4: social media sites was by these trolling bots, and they're

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Speaker 4: just going to get better and better, and quantity does matter.

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Speaker 4: Stalin himself said, quantity has its own quality. So if

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Speaker 4: you have zillions of these things and they're cheap and

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Speaker 4: basically free to spawn, you can sway opinion on social

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Speaker 4: media sites. And it actually has happened, and it's just

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Speaker 4: going to get worse because the bots are going to

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Speaker 4: get smarter and smarter and know how to work around

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Speaker 4: the AI detectors that are trying to weed them out.

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Speaker 4: It says I said in Arms Race, Charles, are you

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Speaker 4: still there with us?

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Speaker 3: By gentle though, I think I am okay there?

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Speaker 2: What you said that you are in AI a long

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Speaker 2: time ago? What what were you involved in?

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, well, uh, this is a little more esoteric.

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Speaker 3: One of the things I was actually involved with something

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Speaker 3: called evolutionary computing, and that is where you used genetic

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Speaker 3: algorithms to actually design or make something come come to

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Speaker 3: pass they would otherwise be able to do naturally. There

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Speaker 3: was something called the how I says, the Evolvable Hardware conference,

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Speaker 3: where we used genetic algorithms to construct really complex objects

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Speaker 3: like antennas, for instance, which is a from an art

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Speaker 3: form itself. And I was at Pasadena actually of one time.

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Speaker 3: It was a few years ago, and they showed an example

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Speaker 3: of an antenna that was being designed for a spacecraft,

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Speaker 3: you know, very beautiful orthogonos structure. Then they showed when

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Speaker 3: I was designed by the evolutionary computer or the EC platform.

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Speaker 3: The EC platform worked much better. It looks like a

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Speaker 3: bird's nest, but nobody explaining why it actually weren't.

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Speaker 4: Over I've designed optics that way that came out way

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Speaker 4: better than I could have done, and the computer did it.

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Speaker 4: But we call those evolutionary neural nets, for example, and

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Speaker 4: they're really good at creating art and they're different in

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Speaker 4: many respects from supervised learning in that they don't have

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Speaker 4: to be trained by a human in the same way

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Speaker 4: and they can produce pretty amazing results.

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Speaker 2: Good stuff, Charles, thanks for calling in. Let's yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Let's see if we can do one more here before

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Speaker 2: the break. Wild Card line number four Carl out of Boston.

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Speaker 7: You're on the air by Connie. I haven't go on

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Speaker 7: with you for months, but I always missed the spot.

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Speaker 7: I knway I got a good I mean, Lynn kind

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Speaker 7: of hit on it earlier. I think it was their name.

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Speaker 7: But my question basically is is it possible now that

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Speaker 7: we have quantum computing computers size of atoms to implement

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Speaker 7: things like serotonin in dopamine into computers and something of

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Speaker 7: that nature to make them beal emotions or I know

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Speaker 7: they're not your wonderful call screen or Donna told me

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Speaker 7: that's not possible, but I was just wondering from a

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Speaker 7: brain doctor, is that even the possibility that you could

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Speaker 7: interject or maybe an AI could detect a certain level

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Speaker 7: of serotonin or dopamine or whatever neurochemical reaction to make

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Speaker 7: up their mind and how to react towards you.

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Speaker 4: Thank you well. I think it would depend on the

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Speaker 4: actual physical structure of the AI computer if it's silicon

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Speaker 4: microchips as it is today, I think the answer is no,

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Speaker 4: although I wouldn't rule out the possibility that you couldn't

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Speaker 4: come up with a digital virtual equivalent of stimulant and

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Speaker 4: neurotransmitter that would change the mood. But I think that

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Speaker 4: there is a fast growing field of biological computing where

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Speaker 4: biological tissue, neural tissue and other things are used for

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Speaker 4: computation and also self assembling biological systems that do automation

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Speaker 4: and things like that. There's nothing that says a computer

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Speaker 4: has to be made of silicon. We have an existence

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Speaker 4: proof that you can make it of neurve cells, for example,

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Speaker 4: and there's some interesting experiments working in that direction. So

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Speaker 4: I'll just repeat what I said before. It's an opinion.

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Speaker 4: It's not based on any data because nobody really knows

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Speaker 4: what the substrate of emotion is. But my opinion is

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Speaker 4: that the underlying computer would have to itself be biological.

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