1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: In eighteen fifty two, a paper called The Spirit Messenger 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: told people new to spiritualism how to hold their very 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: own seance. Who right, Okay, let's get some seance music going. 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: Huh nice? Okay. A seance or a spirit circle requires 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: this of the sitter, according to the publication quote, First, 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: let none join your circle but those who feel attracted. 7 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: Invite none but those who feel a desire to search 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: for truth and would be congenial with you. Second, when 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: you have a medium present, communications are promised conditionally. If 10 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: you come with candid minds and a desire to know 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: the truth, the spirits will endeavor to communicate with you. Third, 12 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: let one among you be appointed to repeat the alphabet. Fourth, 13 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: your meetings should be opened with singing, and clothes with singing, 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: and all should pray, ferishing an inward desire to have 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: good spirits with you or those who are the most progressed. Five, 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: in the absence of a medium, the circle should be 17 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: formed with the same harmonious feelings, and the spirits be 18 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: with you and impress with truthful thoughts. Six. Those who 19 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: unite with the circle must not indulge in inharmonious feelings, strife, 20 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: or bitterness, but follow the example of Christ in doing 21 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: good seven all strive to live cheerful or happy, and 22 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: there will be a corresponding harmony between you and the 23 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: spheres unquote. Now, obviously, the mid nineteenth century wasn't the 24 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: first time that people had tried to make contact with 25 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: the dead in human history. They had been at it 26 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: first centuries. Ancient mythology and history is full of accounts 27 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: of contact with the dead through necromancy, which shares qualities 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,919 Speaker 1: of the seance, but is not the seance. Necromancy, unlike 29 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: the mediums who are inspired by the Fox Sisters of Hydesville, 30 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: New York in the forties, often involved violence in its 31 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: early history, featuring a combination of ritualized words spells if 32 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: you will, and an action, often a sacrifice. Necromancy appears 33 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: in some of the most famous early stories we have. 34 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: So just kick it back to your middle school brain 35 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: for a second and think of Odysseus, who talks to 36 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: a witch who is able to conjure the spirit of 37 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: a crewman in odissease his mother and even the mythic 38 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: hero Hercules for him to get advice. And yes, they 39 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: all drink the blood of sheep it's the whole thing Orpheus. 40 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: This whole story involves going down to the spirit world 41 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: to rescue his wife from the underworld, and Hercules himself 42 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 1: goes down there too. In ancient Rome, the stories were 43 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: even louder and more violent. One of my favorite is 44 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: when a witch screams, do I ever jet? These spells 45 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: out consuming human and trails incredible energy. Let's let's bring 46 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: up back. Some Roman emperors actually employed necromancers, most notably 47 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: Emperor Nero, which is interesting because I feel like he 48 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: was a pretty chill guy. Otherwise, there's also records of 49 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: necromancy and killed the history and myths. It is featured 50 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: throughout the Middle Ages in early Christianity, where some of 51 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: the earliest cautionary tales exist. One that comes right to 52 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: mind is King Saul outlawing the practice of necromancy and 53 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: then seeking out a spirit guide anyways, and action that 54 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: leads to the loss of a huge battle as well 55 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: as the life of him and his son. These appear 56 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: alongside uh good Christian ghosts, which are different for reasons. 57 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: I mean Easter ghost holiday Phononically, there's actually a lot 58 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: of ghost holidays. There is Dia de los Muertos in Mexico. 59 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: So when in the Celtic tradition the Hungry Ghost festival 60 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: or Yulawn in China, Oban in the Japanese Buddhist tradition 61 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: gaid in Haiti or Easter where Jesus is famously dead. 62 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: But there's one important element that distinguishes the seance from 63 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: virtually all of these holidays and many of these myths. 64 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: In these holidays, the ghosts come to us. We are 65 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: on their schedule. In a seance, we are the ones 66 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: calling them. In these stories, the person who seeks out 67 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: contact with the dead for their own personal comfort as 68 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: opposed to the interest of others or to serve their 69 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: own God are usually punished in seances. That's the whole point. 70 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: It's a small distinction, but an important one. The seance, 71 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: as spiritualists use it was one of the first major 72 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: innovations of the faith. But the history of spiritualist rituals 73 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: came to be so much more, some of which has 74 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: fallen by the wayside, and other practices that are still 75 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: used in Cassadega today. Today is all about turning it 76 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: up to an eleven. We're going to go to Cassadega 77 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: to check out the colossic spiritualist ritual of table tipping, 78 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: and check in with the Fox Sisters who invented the 79 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: practice of the science on their first national tour, and 80 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: see what happened during their first brush with public backlash. So, okay, 81 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: we're starting our science. Now, let's get this going. Step three, 82 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: let's get singing. Somebody once told me the world is 83 00:05:38,960 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: just kidding. Start the theme song wore. All right, I'm 84 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: back in Cassadega, Florida, and I'm waiting for a friend. Yeah, 85 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: I have friends. I'm walking around looking for snacks, of 86 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: which there are none to be found. But on my 87 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: walk around the neighborhood, I do spot this beautiful candy 88 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 1: colored lavender house, four bedrooms and a small gazebo on 89 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: sale for a kind of stunningly reasonable price. But it's 90 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: a nonstarter. You need the approval of the Southern Cassadega 91 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: Spiritualist Camp to live there, due to its status as 92 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: a protected official campgrounds home. This approval process is referenced 93 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: extensively on the Cassadega, Florida and lily Dale, New York websites. 94 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: Sure you can live in a gorgeous house for a 95 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: low price, But you first need to prove that you 96 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: are worthy and involved with the community, and in a 97 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: move that is a little exclusionary but makes sense to 98 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: me in the circumstances. Mediums who have completed the equivalent 99 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: of a three or more year university course slash unpaid 100 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: internship to live there will get preference. But I let 101 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,119 Speaker 1: myself have the fantasy for a minute. Anyways, a friend 102 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: and I come down to Cassadega. We learned to immune 103 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: with the dead. We live a minute's walk from a 104 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: gorgeous public park and community, and well, I guess we 105 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: would need to get a car because the only place 106 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: to get food in all of Cassadega is a place 107 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: called Sinatra's Restaurante, and it's open five days out of 108 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: the week. But the ear here smells so fresh, and 109 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: it's attempting idea. But to quote the man who I 110 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: am taking today, is able tipping class from the reverend doctor. 111 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: I know another reverend doctor, the reverend doctor Lewis Gates. 112 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: He will say to me in a reading I get 113 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: from him a couple of days later, you have no 114 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: business in Florida. Okay, he's probably right, but that's a 115 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: little harsh but I don't know he's going to say 116 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: that yet. At this point, Reverend Doctor Lewis Gates is 117 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: little more than a name on a website to me. 118 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: But unlike most reverends and mediums at the camp, he's 119 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: got deep roots here. He's a third generation medium, raised 120 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: by a medium mother and a Baptist priest father. And 121 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: he'll tell us that he still uses the deck of 122 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: tarot cards that belonged to his grandmother. Now, one of 123 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: the defining traits of modern spiritualism is its seemingly intentional 124 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 1: lack of central figure. But for my money, if Cassadega 125 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: at present has one defining figure, it appears to be 126 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: Reverend Dr Lewis. He's virtually everywhere during my time there. 127 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: He's at services, he's doing healings, he's headlining the message 128 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: service as it were, he's going on walks, he's attending services, 129 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: he's not even technically participating it. And he's got a 130 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: big personality. He's a real animated guy and probably the 131 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: best candidate to show us how tables can connect us 132 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: with the spirit realm, both because he has a lot 133 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: of experience and because he has this unique ability to 134 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: sell a group of people mostly new to the religion 135 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: of Spiritualism on one of its more esoteric experiences. Another 136 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: of these more obscure ideas that he specializes in that 137 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: I find particularly fascinating is trance mediumship, a form of 138 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: mental mediumship where a spirit communicates through a medium using 139 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: their own voice and mannerisms. Reverend Dr Lewis writes on 140 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: his website about a spirit that he channels most often, 141 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: whose name is Lucerne, who he identifies as quote being 142 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: from another dimension unquote. Lucern started coming to him many 143 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: years ago, so for comparison, Reverend Dr Lewis Gates, sounds 144 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: like this, we have a fear of leaving people behind. 145 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: I'll leaving our life behind, our vibration. We are the 146 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: fear kind of what we're going to see when we 147 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: open our eyes on the other side. And Locern sounds 148 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: like this, when you actually despaired world to come here, 149 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: you pick your place in the city and state of 150 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: your bath, in the city and country of your bath, 151 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: my kingdom for a single meeting with Ucern. But unfortunately 152 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: Lucern is not making an appearance in Cassadaga today. Instead, 153 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: my friend and I are taking a class in the 154 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: Reverend Dr Lewis's physical mediumship through table tipping. My friend 155 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: is from Orlando, about a half hour away, and she 156 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: is coming in completely cold, so buckle in right away. 157 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: She has this combination of wonder and conviction about how 158 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: the world works that is fascinating to me. I've never 159 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: actually met this friend in real life before. We met 160 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: around six months ago through unionization efforts for podcasters, which listener, 161 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: let me tell you worked out unionize your workplaces. But 162 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: this is the first time we've actually met in a 163 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: time where I sometimes forget that I haven't met people 164 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: in person in a while. She parked in front of 165 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: the bookstore and doesn't know whether to comment on how 166 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: bizarre it is that this place exists so close to 167 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: where she grew up, or to just kind of take 168 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: in the experience. She starts by telling me that I'm 169 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: so much taller than she thought, which is something I 170 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: get a lot. You know, Jamie, I didn't expect you 171 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: to be this tall. Well, guess what, I'm six ft 172 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: tall and my personality is hard five six all right, 173 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: I don't have to disclose that to you. Nice to 174 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: meet you too. She comes into the gift shop with 175 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: me as the class is about to start, and immediately 176 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: picks up on one of the more obvious and polarizing 177 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: aspects of Cassadega and of American spiritualism on the whole. 178 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: It's extremely white, she says, quote, what is this? Is 179 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: this white people culture? I look around nervously, already feeling 180 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: like my most recent encounter with the Spiritualist had left 181 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: me a bit at a disadvantage. My goal for today 182 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: is to be here, be present, try not to piss 183 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: anyone off, and show that I'm genuinely interested so that 184 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: the board of the Spiritualists who control public relations don't 185 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: tell me to go fuck myself. But it feels weird. 186 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: So I lean over to my friend and I tell 187 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: her I don't really know what table tipping is, but 188 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: surely Reverend Dr Lewis is going to tell us what 189 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: it is. At the beginning of the two hour table 190 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: tipping session, right, I noticed a few things about the 191 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson Davis Educational Room that I didn't at the 192 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: message service earlier in the day, particularly this one poster 193 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: sized papyrus font graphic reading proclamation beneath Cassadega's signature, some 194 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: flower loco everything is significant here, and so it stands 195 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: to reason that the sunflower is as well. I wasn't 196 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: able to trace the history of who decided that the 197 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: sunflower was the symbol of the spiritualists, but it's one 198 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: that has always symboled constancy and can be found on 199 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: nearly every branded item in the camp. There's maybe about 200 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: forty people at the afternoon table tipping class. Our chairs 201 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: are surrounding Reverend Dr Lewis Gates and his fellow Cassadega 202 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: medium and spouse Marie Gaines. They stand in the center 203 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: of the meeting room with three tables of various sciences, 204 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: all of which have three legs. I'm about to learn 205 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: way more about the other people in this room than 206 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: I thought I was going to. Within minutes, I will 207 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: know that there's a man whose father had died just 208 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: weeks before, who he was desperate to make contact with 209 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: in spite of his disc belief in the great beyond. 210 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: I would learn about the old woman who comes every 211 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: time this workshop is held in an attempt to make 212 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: contact with her dead pets. I would meet the Cassadega 213 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: regulars who want to say hello to their dead relatives 214 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: that they speak to on the tables all the time. 215 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: I meet the curious goth girls making a day trip 216 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: together after the first one of them got their driver's license. 217 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: The German tourist girls on a semester abroad who gets 218 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: scared and leave in the middle. The middle aged women 219 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: who are there to support their friend as she embarks 220 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: on the goal of becoming a medium and maybe going 221 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: to night class question mark. And I'm there with my 222 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: friend too, So let me give you a feel for 223 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: Louis and Marie Gates. He wears a Hawaiian shirt, more 224 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: casual than the Sunday dressing of just an hour before. 225 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: And Marie, who grew up as a Quaker, and I 226 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: later noticed walks of real footsteps behind her husband on 227 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: their morning walks as they take their cat around in 228 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: a stroller. Iconic love that for them. They both have 229 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: very distinct personalities. His is booming and hers is observational 230 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: and at a few choice points a little quietly sarcastic 231 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: towards her husband. They act as if we all know 232 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: exactly what table tipping is, which is a huge mistake, 233 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: if the confused faces of most of the people in 234 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: the room are any indication. But they banter like a 235 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: married couple because they are a married couple. Here's Louis 236 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: Gates being introduced at a Sunday service in Cassadega the 237 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: week after I left by Marie at a service where 238 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: because the Valentine's Day, a number of spiritualists had just 239 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: renewed their wedding vows. At this time, I would like 240 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: to bring up our pastor, Reverend Dr Louis Gates, pastor, medium, healer, teacher, 241 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: an awesome husband. Yeah, I wanted to speak today about 242 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: our commitment to each other, our commitment to the universe, 243 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: our commitment to our own being within our lives. A 244 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: lot of times we forget ourselves as we move into 245 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: different situations. Today we committed our connection to the individual 246 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: that we married as our renewal vows. Again, we had 247 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: a few connect to their higher connection to themselves. But 248 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: we always have to realize that we have to nurture 249 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: our being in this lifetime. We have to nurture ourselves. 250 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: We have to connect ourselves to this higher sense of consciousness. So, yeah, 251 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,479 Speaker 1: they're a team and they practice out of the same 252 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: building around the corner. But today we are table tipping 253 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: and they get right into it without explaining to you 254 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: what the funk is going on. This seems to be 255 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: the general practice in the area, though, these assumptions that 256 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: you understand what's happening, things like yes, spirit is real, Yes, 257 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: you're going to talk to the spirit. Yes, right now, Okay, 258 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: let's go. Oh this table. Yeah, it's made with the 259 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: house of George Colby, the man who founded Cassadega. Yes, 260 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: of course his house burned down, and of course we 261 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: retrofitted the banister into a table. What question could you 262 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: possibly have? It's your turn. We hope you thought about 263 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: who you wanted to hear from from the great Beyond 264 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: before you arrived. Louis does do us the service of 265 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: introducing the three tables he's brought with him. One of 266 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: a pretty small coffee table that falls far below his 267 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: I would say about six ft five frame. One is 268 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: a medium sized TV dinner table that your grandma would 269 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: set her coffee on, which tween episodes of soap operas. 270 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 1: And then there's this larger table, this pale blue George 271 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,959 Speaker 1: Colby table that will be using today, one that has 272 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: been made specifically to Louis Gates's body's specifications, and which 273 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: his wife Marie can make work as well as in 274 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: use the table to get in touch with the ghosts. 275 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: He says this of the George Colby table, where I, 276 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: in just a couple of minutes will be speaking with 277 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: my dead brother. I need one so I don't have 278 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: to stoop down, you know. Louis Gates gave a speech 279 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: at Gala Day in Cassadega just the day before about 280 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: an equally esoteric spiritualist practice called spirit trumpets, essentially an 281 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: older spiritualist tradition in which spirits will make instruments move 282 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: and play. Today, he tells us that the tables for 283 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: table tipping need to have three legs for the Father, 284 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: Son and Holy Spirit. Something about three legs just works, 285 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: he says, and that any table will do, but the bigger, 286 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: bulkier ones are his personal preference. He says that he's 287 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: blessed the space before we entered. This involves his saying 288 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: a prayer in each corner of the room to clear 289 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: negative energy, and being the one who said the prayer 290 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: automatically makes him the alpha of the workshop. He is 291 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: responsible for our spiritual safety. Rooms can hold onto energy 292 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: positive and negative, he explains to us, So you have 293 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: to be very careful. He uses the example of the 294 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: way that you can enter a space where something horrible 295 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: has happened and you can somehow just feel it, feel 296 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: that something isn't right, or to borrow an example of 297 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: the room that we're currently standing in, a hall where 298 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: there were fundraising dances during both World Wars and where 299 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: mediums say they can hear music and joyful foots steps 300 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: while they're on nighttime walks. It's not that these spirits 301 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: are haunting the space, he tells us, it's the energy 302 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,959 Speaker 1: of the event and things that happened there, which means 303 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: that my virginity is haunting a dirty hotel room in Annapolis, Maryland. Actually, 304 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: if you apply this rule to any hotel room, they 305 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: become uninhabitable. Anyways, Reverend Dr Lewis says this, I've been 306 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: doing this since I was five years old. It took 307 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: me years to get in touch with all of this. 308 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: He says, this with the swagger I'll come to associate 309 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: him with, as he introduces the tables, saying it takes 310 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: years of practice to get them to quote unquote fly 311 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: the way they do for him. Hell, he says, even 312 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: Marie has trouble getting the tables going. Sometimes sometimes their 313 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: own cat has more success getting the table to move 314 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: than Marie, and it's like, jeez, man, she's standing right 315 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: there after all. Reverend Dr Lewis explains he's been practicing 316 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: mediumship to some degree for over half a century, one 317 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: of the only people at the camp to be a 318 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: generational member of Spiritualism. Yes, he says he's seen tables levitate. Yes, 319 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: he says he hears the tables rattle around he and 320 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: Marie's house at night. He points to one table and 321 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,959 Speaker 1: says he found it rattling in the back of an 322 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: antique store and the dealer said, I don't like that table. 323 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: Something's not right with it, and so Reverend Dr. Lewis 324 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: bought it because it was jumping out at him. He's 325 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: got the kind of charisma that makes you glad that 326 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: Spiritualism has no interest in being a cult, because this 327 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: guy could sell a cult the same way that the 328 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: early Spiritualists of the eighteen hundreds could sell the religion. 329 00:22:48,320 --> 00:23:00,479 Speaker 1: But we'll get back to them now that we've met 330 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: the tables. The table tip in class begins. Reverend Dr 331 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: Lewis asks for six people to get up. They do 332 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: and get around the big wooden table with Lewis and Marie, 333 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: and everyone is instructed to put their hands on the 334 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: edges of the table very lightly, no grip. The rest 335 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: of us stay on the perimeter of the circle in 336 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: our chairs as the group of six begin to move 337 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: the table around the interior of the room, and I 338 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: don't know what to tell you. After a second, the table, 339 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 1: which is huge, does begin to move, and it seems 340 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: to kind of take the eight people surrounding it to 341 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: the left side of the circle we've created as the 342 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: less initiated, like myself and my friend look on kind 343 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: of in bafflement. Now, I want to be clear, this 344 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: isn't a table movie, as in levitating, This isn't a 345 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: conjuring movie. It's not this what's going on, ladies, please 346 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: remove your glove believe we're about to commuting with the spirit. 347 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: His lips are red like blood from a coop when 348 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: you took his teeth, a sharp black yours when you 349 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: bit a coot. And it's so cold and dark and 350 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: wet like the jungle, like tears. I am crying. I 351 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: am sorry. Fright, father, find me, find me, save me, 352 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: Save me. Uh. There was a clip from Penny dreadful. 353 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: But it is a table dragging across the floor, not lifting, 354 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: but moving quickly and not appearing to be pulled by 355 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: anyone in particular. And for skeptics listening, I promised to 356 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: take this class seriously. But of course I'm watching Lewis 357 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: and Marie's forearms to make sure that they're not flexing 358 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: with every movement that the table makes, and it doesn't 359 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: look that way. But okay, they're both wearing long sleeves, 360 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: and maybe I'll have a better idea when my turn 361 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: around the table comes. For now, all I know is 362 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: that the six not gates is are chasing the table 363 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,959 Speaker 1: around as it lifts towards its first victim, a woman 364 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: who has been here before. So once the table stops, 365 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: it tends to tip towards one person, and it sways 366 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: back in this jerky, seasick kind of way while it 367 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: waits to make contact. So Reverend Dr Lewis nods at 368 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: the woman the table is tipping towards, saying, that's you, sweetheart. 369 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 1: And what takes place is this stressful game of yes 370 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: or no questions that happens rapid fire. She's a little nervous, 371 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: but she tries an easy question. Is this spirit a man? 372 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: The table goes still, its legs go back on the ground. 373 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: That means no, is this spirit? Uh? Woman? The table 374 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: leans towards her. Yes, that means yes, okay, is it 375 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: her mother? No? She thinks harder. The other five people 376 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,479 Speaker 1: around the table are looking at her intently. There is 377 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: this kind of pressure to perform when the table is 378 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: talking to you. If you lose the rhythm of the thing, 379 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: it gets less exciting. So the woman thinks fast. She says, 380 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: is this her biological mother? Interesting? Now everyone in the 381 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: room knows that she's adopted. The table says yes, yes, 382 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: it's rocking back and forth. That's an hiological mother. So 383 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: the woman nods, as Lewis and Marie keeps staring at 384 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 1: her as if to say, what question are you going 385 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: to ask? Now? Uh? The woman gets nervous ask her 386 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: a question, So the woman asks the spirit are you okay? 387 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: And the table rocks back and forth. Yes. The woman says, 388 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: I love you, and the table tips towards her slowly. 389 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: Louis says, that's a hook. And this woman who is 390 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: talking to her biological mother via table says a little awkwardly, oh, thanks, 391 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: And the table, as if sensing that things are starting 392 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: to get weird, goes still. Everyone in the room takes 393 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: a breath. Was that it is? That all there is 394 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: to a tipping table? And after a second, the table 395 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: takes off again. It moves to the left, this big 396 00:27:55,040 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: fucking Quiji board, and the group of six starts to 397 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: follow it again, and it starts all over. My friend 398 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: looks over at me a little confused. She mounts to me, 399 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: was that real? And as I sit here, I feel 400 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: more skeptical than I was wanting to. It all feels 401 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: a little forced and performative. But I'm not here to 402 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: decide if ghosts are real. I'm here to watch other 403 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: people decide if they think ghosts are real. Many of 404 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: the table tipping interactions are similar to this first one. 405 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: There are people who are a little nervous and struggle 406 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: to think of questions. There are people who end up 407 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: connecting with a spirit other than the one they had 408 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: clearly been hoping to. There are skeptics that were brought 409 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: with believers who are only taking it half seriously and 410 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: kind of slowing down the proceedings. And there's a million 411 00:28:54,640 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: Hi Grandma, miss She's but like the message they're resk 412 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: that took place before it. There are moments around the 413 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: table that are extremely intense and even pull tears from 414 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: people who came here to talk to someone who they 415 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: loved and lost. Table Tipping is something of a rarity 416 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: in Cassadega and in modern spiritualism in general, and it 417 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: makes sense that a legacy spiritualists like Reverend Dr Lewis 418 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: Gates is the one to show it to us by 419 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: in large physical mediumship like table tipping and spirit trumpets 420 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: have been abandoned by spiritualists over the years, but the 421 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: majority of mediums ratings in Cassadega now being done intuitively 422 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: or only with the mind. I mentioned this in our 423 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: first episode, but because there is such a misconception on 424 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: this topic even within Cassadega, mediums trained in Cassadega, Florida 425 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: do not use tarot cards and rarely use physical tools 426 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: at all. It's not that they're banned by any means. 427 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you can take an occasional table tipping class 428 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: like this. There are things like spirit photography walking tours 429 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: marketed mainly at tourists, that encourage you to walk around 430 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: with a camp sanctioned guide and capture orbs on camera, 431 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: but these events are in the minority, and Cassadega mediums 432 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: have actively distanced themselves from the tarot card readers who 433 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: operate in the camp, particularly the ones who work at 434 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: the Cassadega Hotel where I'm staying. Dot dot dot. That's 435 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: a drama for another day. But one reason that spiritualists 436 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: on the whole seem to have distanced themselves from larger 437 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: physical demonstrations over the years may have to do with 438 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: the extreme controversy that surrounds some debunked methods of the 439 00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: nineteenth century spiritualists. Again that dichotomy. In the world of 440 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: sciences in the nineteenth century, there was often this demand 441 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: for more, more contact, more proof of life after death, 442 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: a demand that pushed early practices like spirit wrappings and 443 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: table tipping even further towards things like quote unquote spirit 444 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: hands that sitters could touch from the beyond, full on 445 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:32,719 Speaker 1: body materializations, levitation, spirit photography, ectoplasmic mouth ejaculate. I can't 446 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: talk to you about that right now. That's going to 447 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: have to wait. But it's as gross as it sounds. 448 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: But the more theatrical of a presentation, generally the swifter 449 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: it would be debunked by skeptics, and so to protect 450 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: their own religion and beliefs, most mediums today elected to 451 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: tap into spirit using their minds and no clunky objects. 452 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: That is to say, it's interestingly old school that friend 453 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: Dr Lewis Kates does teach physical mediumship as he does 454 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: and also engages in trance mediumship, because these tend to 455 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: be the elements of spiritualism that draw far more skepticism. 456 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: Here's a quick smattering of early examples of physical mediums 457 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: getting debunked. These examples come from Barbara Weisberg's biography of 458 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: the Fox Sisters Talking to the Dead, as well as 459 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: the book Calling the Spirits a History of Sciences by 460 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: Lisa Morton. Early spiritualists Ira and William Davenport, the teens 461 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: seancers I call him, began as stage magicians before pivoting 462 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: to spiritualist seances, where they were eventually caught performing tricks 463 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,239 Speaker 1: with elaborate spirit cabinets where they'd be tied up and 464 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: shoved inside, only for quote unquote spirits to begin playing 465 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: musical instruments while they were While Ira was said to 466 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: be a practicing spiritualist, he also sat Harry Houdini down 467 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: and showed him how he and his brother pulled off 468 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: the spirit cabinet illusion shortly before he died. Next up 469 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: one of history's most famous mediums, the Scotsman D. D. Home, 470 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: who was often referred to as a medium who never 471 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: got busted, an impressive figure who was said to be 472 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: able to levitate and produce physical manifestations of spirits, and 473 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: he never was publicly exposed for sure, but there were 474 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: several rumors and accounts that detailed things like a found 475 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: fake spirit hand, or in a well circulated rumor about 476 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: a seance attended by writers Robert and Elizabeth Browning, a 477 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: glowing appendage in the dark was grabbed by Robert Browning 478 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: and revealed to be Holmes's own foot. And finally, the 479 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: first popular spirit photographer, William Mummler, who was brought to 480 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: court for fraud, although to his at it after three 481 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: weeks of testimony, including P. T. Barnum testifying against him, 482 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: that's really saying something. No one could definitively show how 483 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,839 Speaker 1: Mumbler had created the spirit photographs, and so he went 484 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: on to take one of the most famous of all time, 485 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: one of Mary Todd Lincoln and what appears to be 486 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: the spirit of her assassinated husband. Maybe you've heard of him. Now, 487 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: Some of what I just described still does remain in 488 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: the murky world of allegation. So physical mediumship, whether you 489 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,919 Speaker 1: believe in it or not, it's riskier. Just because there 490 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: were smoking mirrors demonstrably at play in the examples I 491 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: just gave doesn't necessarily mean that the people doing it 492 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: didn't believe or didn't think that these things weren't possible. 493 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: I mean, does the priest in a confession box really 494 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: believe that they are providing divine forgiveness? Probably not always, 495 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,240 Speaker 1: but often when it comes to things like this, literal 496 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: magic tricks, a wet glove, a slipped knot to play 497 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: spirit instruments. I mean, it's very hard to defend, but 498 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: some accusations of fraud are more difficult to parse. And 499 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: I also include the Fox Sisters, who we are overdue 500 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: to check in on. So let's go back to the 501 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: late eighteen forties. After becoming locally famous in upstate New 502 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: York for spirit rappings in their own home said to 503 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: be from a famous murdered shoe peddler named Charles Rosna, 504 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,720 Speaker 1: the sisters Maggie and Kate Fox, both still children, moved 505 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: to the city of Rochester with their older sister Leah, 506 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 1: herself a single mother, to begin the process of becoming 507 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: public religious figures. I mean, can you blame a kid 508 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: for wanting to so? Where do we leave our gals? 509 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: The Fox sister oh, right, per their account, they're having 510 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: the ship slapped out of them by the ghosts of 511 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,240 Speaker 1: Rochester in the summer of eight I mean, my God, 512 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: the way that Leah Fox, the eldest, describes Slappy the 513 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 1: ghost my nickname, not hers. I will not give her 514 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: credit for my amazing ghost nickname, but the way that 515 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: she describes this malevolent spirit in her book The Missing 516 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: Link is very intense. The youngest sister, Kate Fox, was 517 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: in particular targeted and tormented, at one point, appearing to 518 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: be slapped to the point that she was unconscious, only 519 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: to come to reciting poetry saying to be with Christ 520 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: is better far. This stage of the Fox sisters lives 521 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: is extremely difficult to verify, in part because the presence 522 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,439 Speaker 1: of spirit in the world, like all things I've become 523 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 1: hyperfecated on, pends to be pretty difficult to speak of 524 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: with any sort of jectivity. I firmly believe that this 525 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: is a topic that's almost impossible to come at with 526 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: any clear sort of mind, because a person's perspective on 527 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: the afterlife is usually connected to deeply personal parts of themselves, 528 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: how they grew up, their relationship or lack thereof, with faith, 529 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: people that they've lost, and the people that they've lost beliefs. 530 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: I will say that Leah Fox's accounts in particular are 531 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: tough for me. She functioned not only as a Fox 532 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: medium during her career, seriously, just give her a year 533 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: or so, but Leah also worked in the unofficial capacity 534 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: of Maggie and Kith's manager, part time guardian, and family 535 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: myth maker, who would soon be taking their show on 536 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: the road. Like a book of letters that Maggie would 537 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: publish later in her life. The contents of Leah's book 538 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: was heavily contested by her own sisters later in their lives, 539 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 1: as the relationship between the three of Margaret Fox's daughters 540 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 1: exploded both their personal lives and their religion in a 541 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: very public way, a moment for Leah here. Barbara Weissberg 542 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: does an amazing job in her biography of Maggie and 543 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: Kate Fox of showing all sides of their sister Leah, 544 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: including the hard to deal with sides. In her day, 545 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: Leo would be considered some sort of saint le mother 546 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: figure in the spiritualist movement, as the public opinion of 547 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,479 Speaker 1: her younger sisters tended to wildly fluctuate as their lives 548 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: went on, But there's indication pretty early on of Leah 549 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: having some volatile tendencies. One example in particular stands out 550 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: regarding how Leah treated her own daughter in these early 551 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 1: months of spiritualism. A local man hoping to make contact 552 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: with his daughter who was thought to have been murdered 553 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: by her own husband but whose killer was acquitted, met 554 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: with Maggie, Kate, Leah, and Leah's teenage daughter Lizzie for 555 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: a seance. So they conducted this early version of a 556 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: seance with all the sisters present, but no spirit raps came, 557 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: and Leah began to brate and blame her own daughter 558 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: for the raps not materializing. Lizzie began to cry and 559 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: it became clear that she had expressed after witnessing her 560 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: niece Kate pass out seemingly possessed by Slappy the ghost, 561 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: that she wished that the spirits would go away. Oh no, 562 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,879 Speaker 1: she said, she didn't like when her twelve year old 563 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: niece was possessed. What a bit. But in this public forum, 564 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: Leah demanded that Lizzie apologize, humiliating her in front of 565 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: her own family and strangers, and Lizzie sobbed quote I 566 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: was sincere. I don't know how to repent unquote. Finally 567 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: she relented to her mother's verbal accosting and sunk to 568 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: her knees and apologized to the spirits, and suddenly the 569 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: rapping began again. Shortly after, Lea sent Lizzie away to 570 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,879 Speaker 1: live with her father for over a year in Illinois, 571 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 1: banishing your team daughter, not very saintly behavior. The summer 572 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 1: of eighteen forty eight found the Fox sisters slowly discovering 573 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 1: their place within Rochester society, first by making an important 574 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: connection through befriending influential couple Amy and Isaac Post. There's 575 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: probably a whole other podcast to be had about these two. 576 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: They were radical Quaker abolitionists and feminists. They held organizational 577 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: meetings for local abolition advocates. They provided safe harbor for 578 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,280 Speaker 1: fugitive slaves. After the fugitive slave Act of eighteen fifty 579 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: made it so that white Southerners could capture any black 580 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: person on free soil and claimed them as their slave, 581 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: and the federal government played a much more active role 582 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 1: in the recapturing of enslaved people. They were also close 583 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:00,800 Speaker 1: friends of Frederick Douglas of Susan b. Anthony of Sojourner Truth, 584 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: and after realizing that the Spiritualist kids who kept popping 585 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: up in the news were actually kids from their own neighborhood, 586 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: the Posts became some of the first true believers in 587 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 1: the fledgling Spiritualism religion. Like many early and subsequent adopters, 588 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: it's likely that their willingness to give it a chance 589 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: was at least in part motivated by the fact that 590 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 1: they had lost a child in the past, one that 591 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: they very much wanted to make contact with from beyond 592 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: the grave. Maggie and Kate, still kids themselves, were more 593 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: than happy to oblige. The summer of eighteen forty eight 594 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,919 Speaker 1: was huge in Rochester, New York. In July of that year, 595 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: the girls lived a stone's throw from the Seneca Falls Convention, 596 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:54,839 Speaker 1: the first major women's right convention in the United States history. 597 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 1: Amy Post was in attendance along with Frederick Douglas and 598 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Katie's anton. I won't rehash the event for you here. 599 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: There are plenty of places where it's been done far 600 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: more effectively, and I will link them in the episode description. 601 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 1: But the short story is that the Seneca Falls Convention 602 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,840 Speaker 1: Hicks started the first wave of American feminism, while laying 603 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,760 Speaker 1: bare the inequities within this movement, particularly between white women 604 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: and women of color. But another topic whispered around this 605 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:31,439 Speaker 1: convention was that of spirit communication. The Fox Sisters were 606 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: not present at the Seneca Falls Convention, but they were 607 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,720 Speaker 1: sort of there in spirit. No I can't, I'm bailing 608 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,359 Speaker 1: on the joke. The Sisters, either in a move of 609 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,880 Speaker 1: smart networking or smart networking from spirit, were some of 610 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: the first to predict that Frederick Douglas's newspaper, The North 611 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: Star would be a success, the first of many interactions 612 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 1: with Douglas that indicate that while he wasn't a full 613 00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 1: convert to spiritualism, he was deeply interested in it and 614 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,240 Speaker 1: many of the people who supported it. Barbara Weisberg describes 615 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,440 Speaker 1: it like this in her biography of the Fox Sisters, 616 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: called Talking to the Dead quote many of those in attendance, 617 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,319 Speaker 1: such as Frederick Douglas and Elizabeth Katie Stanton, had also 618 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:21,320 Speaker 1: heard about the possibility of spirit communication through their Rochester acquaintances, 619 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 1: and others soon learned of it. Wrapped were reported to 620 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: have struck the very table at which Stanton and her 621 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: colleague Lucretia Mott had drafted the Conventions resolutions unquote, as 622 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: it would for their entire career. The whiffs and accusations 623 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 1: of Humbug as it were, followed talk of spiritualism wherever 624 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: it went, But many progressives who were strong proponents of 625 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: science were actually inclined to advocate for spiritualism in a 626 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: time where it felt like with some study and some time, 627 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: anything could be proven as true. And in the late 628 00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 1: eighteen forties, negative press was no man for the public's 629 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 1: curiosity in spirit communication, either in the interest of science 630 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,720 Speaker 1: or as would be true time and time again. Into 631 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: the very recent past, there was a lot of death 632 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: and a lot of people that they're grieving wanted to 633 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: get in touch with in addition to the normal culprits. 634 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: In a time where life expectancy still hovered somewhere around 635 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 1: forty a cholera epidemic swept Europe and the US in 636 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,839 Speaker 1: eighteen forty nine, bringing with it a new crowd of 637 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,799 Speaker 1: grieving who were eager for closure with relatives and loved 638 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,800 Speaker 1: ones they had suddenly lost. By the end of the decade, Hate, 639 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: Maggie and Leah were notorious communicators with spirit In eighteen 640 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,320 Speaker 1: forty nine, Leah had promoted herself from manager Mommy to 641 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: Manager Mommy Medium Live Left Love with some trademark Fox Drama. 642 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: The Spirits are said to have threatened to leave the 643 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,560 Speaker 1: Sisters permanently during the fall of eighteen forty nine if 644 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 1: the Sisters didn't comply with a very specific desire of 645 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: spirits that wish to take their show on the road, 646 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: and after a little bit of rehearsal, they did just that. 647 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: In November of eighteen forty nine, the Sisters performed in 648 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 1: the largest theater in Rochester, New York, officially taking spiritualism 649 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,759 Speaker 1: to the next level. November eighteen forty nine. Price of 650 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,840 Speaker 1: admittance cents fifty cents amidst one man and two ladies 651 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: Good to Know. Four people attend in all, including Amy Post, 652 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 1: lending the events some bonus credibility. Kate Fox remained in 653 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 1: the audience for the demonstration, which was attended by both 654 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 1: the curious and the skeptical, and Maggie came on stage 655 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 1: in a pale blue dress. In all likelihood, those in 656 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:59,279 Speaker 1: attendants would have had some familiarity with the concept of 657 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,319 Speaker 1: the supernat troll. Outside of Christianity, there were well known 658 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:08,759 Speaker 1: figures who navigated this area, people like Emmanuel Swedenborg, the 659 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: Swedish Swedenborgish philosopher turned Christian mystic from the late sixteen hundreds. 660 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,360 Speaker 1: There was also Anton Mesmer, the German physician and friend 661 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:23,839 Speaker 1: of Mozart, who theorized about quote unquote animal magnetism, which 662 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: stated that there was a super fine, invisible fluid in 663 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: the body that could be amplified. More recently, there was 664 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: the Poughkeepsie seer Andrew Jackson Davis, who had revived interest 665 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: in clairvoyance in New York, and interestingly enough, the whole 666 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: that the table tipping class I took in Cassadega is 667 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,439 Speaker 1: named after him. But these figures were all grown men, 668 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,479 Speaker 1: many of them well educated. None of these figures were 669 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:55,840 Speaker 1: as underestimated or disrespected as a teenage girl as ordinary 670 00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,160 Speaker 1: seeming as Maggie Fox. After a lecture from the journalist 671 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,800 Speaker 1: who had chronicled the events at the Hydesville House, Eliab Capron. 672 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:09,240 Speaker 1: Maggie entered with Leah Fox, who was now claiming mediumship herself. 673 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,239 Speaker 1: To the shock of the audience, the spirit raps came 674 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,920 Speaker 1: and the crowd was immediately split. Many were just as 675 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:20,840 Speaker 1: blown away as the people who would come to the 676 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:25,520 Speaker 1: Hydesville House, but the skeptics organized quickly. When the demonstration 677 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,960 Speaker 1: was complete, and by all accounts, Maggie pulled it off, 678 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,920 Speaker 1: the audience grew restless and in the room demanded that 679 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 1: there be a committee of five men assigned to investigate 680 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:42,000 Speaker 1: the phenomena, and nominated them before they let anyone leave. 681 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: The Foxes did not see this coming, understandably, but the 682 00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 1: newly formed committee demanded that the sisters submit themselves to 683 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,800 Speaker 1: testing the next morning, which they did at the Sons 684 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,840 Speaker 1: of Temperance Hall in Rochester the next day, with the 685 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,239 Speaker 1: committee declaring that there would be a second show at 686 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: Corinthian Hall that night to reveal the results. This time, 687 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 1: and even bigger crowd arrived. Caprine published an account of 688 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,840 Speaker 1: night to along with a fellow journalist. So consider the source, 689 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,040 Speaker 1: they are biased in the Fox sisters favor But the 690 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,279 Speaker 1: long and short of it was that the committee had 691 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,400 Speaker 1: not been able to bust them, even after reportedly putting 692 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,440 Speaker 1: their hands on the feet and joints of the girls 693 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,480 Speaker 1: as the rappings took place, And that still wasn't enough. 694 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,760 Speaker 1: A second investigation was called for, followed by a third 695 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,920 Speaker 1: night of shows to indicate the results. This committee was 696 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 1: even physically harsher on Maggie and Leah. Their feet were 697 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,920 Speaker 1: bound and their dresses were groped, while the committee demanded 698 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,280 Speaker 1: that the sisters summoned the wrappings. And again the committee 699 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: was unable to find fraud. So on the third night 700 00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:01,280 Speaker 1: of shows, yet another committee was called for. And it's like, guys, 701 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,640 Speaker 1: it's eighteen forty eight. We've got bigger fish to fry here. 702 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,040 Speaker 1: But this time the committee called for would be only 703 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,359 Speaker 1: composed of women, so that the Fox sisters could be 704 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:17,480 Speaker 1: physically humiliated even further. Barbara Weisberg describes the inspection like 705 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:23,360 Speaker 1: this quote. With the sister's reluctant consent, a subsidiary committee 706 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,440 Speaker 1: of ladies took them into a separate room, then stripped 707 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 1: and searched them, examining both quote their persons and clothing unquote, 708 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:36,279 Speaker 1: in search of noisy devices such as leaden balls mortified. 709 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,239 Speaker 1: Both sisters wept through much of their ordeal, until their 710 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,719 Speaker 1: sobs reached such a pitch that Amy Post burst into 711 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:48,719 Speaker 1: the room and brought the investigation to a halt. Unquote. Now, 712 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,120 Speaker 1: no matter how you feel, this is a fucking Guantanamo 713 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:56,759 Speaker 1: style physical humiliation of two women, one of whom is 714 00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: a minor. Maggie did not want to return to corint 715 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,880 Speaker 1: i in Hall after this abusive third investigation, but Amy 716 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,680 Speaker 1: Post convinced both her and Leah to attend in protest 717 00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,560 Speaker 1: of how they'd been treated. And again the committee found 718 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 1: no fraud, and the Fox Sisters Kate included, were now 719 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:21,080 Speaker 1: considered legit enough to continue their work, but at what cost. 720 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,920 Speaker 1: Understandably freaked out by how the public had demanded to 721 00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,360 Speaker 1: strip search them multiple days in a row, the sisters 722 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,720 Speaker 1: spent the next stretch of time perfecting their spirit rapping 723 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: seances in Rochester in privately arranged sessions. An interesting shift 724 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,759 Speaker 1: here is that they now charged a fee for these seances. 725 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,359 Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas was said to frequently attendees. He once got 726 00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,759 Speaker 1: so frustrated that it was taking so long for the 727 00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:53,360 Speaker 1: ghosts to show up that he called the display atrocious 728 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,000 Speaker 1: and apologize to Amy Post about it in a letter 729 00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:00,400 Speaker 1: written later. Good stuff, And yeah, that's a really funny story, 730 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,040 Speaker 1: but it lends itself to the predicament that the Foxes 731 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: and the newly minted mediums who were beginning to crop 732 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,880 Speaker 1: up all around the country and even overseas, found themselves in. 733 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:17,560 Speaker 1: People sitting with mediums wanted instant ratification, They wanted to 734 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:21,840 Speaker 1: talk to specific spirits, and in some cases it seems 735 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,880 Speaker 1: like more than anything else, they wanted a bit of 736 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,520 Speaker 1: a show. And depending on your perspective, no one could 737 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,799 Speaker 1: put on a show or a ritual white like a 738 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:44,560 Speaker 1: spiritualist medium could. All right, we're back in Cassada, back 739 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,400 Speaker 1: in the Andrew Jackson Davis building. Yes, that Andrew Jackson Davis, 740 00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:54,319 Speaker 1: the Poughkeepsie seer himself well spotted. Group after group are 741 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,840 Speaker 1: going up to the table in our table tipping class, 742 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,960 Speaker 1: and I feel so self conscious waiting again, wondering if 743 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,279 Speaker 1: there's any chance that Lewis and Marie Gates already know 744 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,719 Speaker 1: who I am, And does that mean that they could 745 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,360 Speaker 1: just take a stab at who I would want to contact. 746 00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:15,840 Speaker 1: That's a classic fraudulent medium technique the hot reading, meaning 747 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,239 Speaker 1: that a medium would research who you are before they 748 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:25,360 Speaker 1: arrive and then miraculously bring through relevant information across the 749 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,680 Speaker 1: room and around the table. One old man connects with 750 00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:33,600 Speaker 1: his father and surprises himself by starting to cry. Another 751 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,960 Speaker 1: woman comes in with a very specific agenda. She connects 752 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,320 Speaker 1: with her father's spirit and then launches into a hyper 753 00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,839 Speaker 1: specific line of questioning. She says she loves him and 754 00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,920 Speaker 1: misses him, but she's still mad at him about that thing, 755 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,240 Speaker 1: and tells him on the table that she still doesn't 756 00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,200 Speaker 1: forgive him. She then goes up a second time a 757 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,239 Speaker 1: little later on to speak with her mother's spirit and 758 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,319 Speaker 1: seems to connect, bursting into tears and asking if she 759 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:06,120 Speaker 1: was wrong not to forgive her father. It's intense, it's specific, 760 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:10,960 Speaker 1: it's technically cheaper than therapy. And then finally it's my turn. 761 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,800 Speaker 1: I go up with a group and have a vague 762 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,759 Speaker 1: plan of what I'm going to do, try to make 763 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,759 Speaker 1: contact with one of my dead grandma's and hope for 764 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,560 Speaker 1: the best. I'm pretty nervous at this point because not 765 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,600 Speaker 1: only is this something I very much want to believe in, 766 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:30,040 Speaker 1: I also feel very aware of wanting Louis and Marie 767 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,800 Speaker 1: to like me. I'm being appraised here to some extent 768 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,520 Speaker 1: observed by the mediums of Cassadega, and so I'm both 769 00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:42,520 Speaker 1: interested and performing being interested. It's like being on a date, 770 00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,320 Speaker 1: except the means to the end is the great beyond 771 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:49,160 Speaker 1: and the approval of a small community of aging mediums 772 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,640 Speaker 1: and healers. So we stand around the table, me right 773 00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:56,520 Speaker 1: next to Lewis. He's huge and feels huger when I'm 774 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,759 Speaker 1: next to him, And so when the table takes off, 775 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,440 Speaker 1: I kind of hope that it will all suddenly become clear, 776 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,480 Speaker 1: something like I knew it. He's dragging the table or 777 00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:11,160 Speaker 1: Marie is dragging the table. Something very obvious is going on. 778 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,359 Speaker 1: But it doesn't seem that way at all, And in fact, 779 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,239 Speaker 1: the gates Is seem to intentionally keep their touch on 780 00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,279 Speaker 1: the table pretty light. But Lewis narrates the experience like 781 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,840 Speaker 1: a sportscaster as the table takes off and leaned to 782 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,080 Speaker 1: the mom across the table from me. Standing around the 783 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:33,800 Speaker 1: table is a completely immersive experience. It's nothing like watching 784 00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:38,840 Speaker 1: from the perimeter. You smell everyone, smell everyone's breath. You 785 00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,520 Speaker 1: feel very self conscious about how tightly or not tightly. 786 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,960 Speaker 1: You're gripping the table like am I dragging it? Am 787 00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,800 Speaker 1: I a part of the problem? Are we confirmation biasing 788 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,680 Speaker 1: this table around? Or is this real? But I don't 789 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,120 Speaker 1: have time to think about it because suddenly the table 790 00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:01,080 Speaker 1: is tipping towards me. So I start to speak to 791 00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,120 Speaker 1: the dead. Are you a woman? Please say you're a woman. 792 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:06,840 Speaker 1: I don't know what to do if you're not a woman. 793 00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,040 Speaker 1: The table goes still, that's a no, it's not a woman. 794 00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,520 Speaker 1: I'm fucked. I'm so fucked. So I asked, is this 795 00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:17,440 Speaker 1: not a woman? Because yes or no questions can be 796 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:22,000 Speaker 1: really gendered. But the table moves again. The answer is yes, 797 00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:26,239 Speaker 1: it's a male spirit talking to me, a dead man. 798 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,000 Speaker 1: I'm pretty lucky. I haven't really lost many men in 799 00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:36,759 Speaker 1: my life, Is it, Papa? No? Is it will no fun? 800 00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,480 Speaker 1: I'm blowing it. No one has gotten this many nose 801 00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,919 Speaker 1: in a row in the entire time this has been 802 00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:47,160 Speaker 1: going on. So I panic and I ask, is this Matthew? 803 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:52,120 Speaker 1: And the table starts to nod yes. And that's really 804 00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:56,520 Speaker 1: weird because I don't technically know Matthew. My mom had 805 00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,680 Speaker 1: two miscarriages and we were raised to think of them 806 00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,200 Speaker 1: as is our siblings, and to talk to them. Even 807 00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:06,440 Speaker 1: our middle names are their names, Matt and Beth, and 808 00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,040 Speaker 1: I used to like draw these weird pictures of what 809 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,000 Speaker 1: I thought my cool teenage siblings would look like if 810 00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,600 Speaker 1: they were alive. They're not people I've actually met. They're 811 00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:19,040 Speaker 1: kind of like these characters to me, I guess, but 812 00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,960 Speaker 1: it made my parents feel better that me spoke life 813 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,800 Speaker 1: into an experience that have been so painful for them. 814 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,359 Speaker 1: But I ask is this Matt? And the answer comes 815 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,719 Speaker 1: back as yes, which leads me to what would I 816 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,840 Speaker 1: say to someone who I've never met and is mainly 817 00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:39,239 Speaker 1: the object of my weird child fan fiction. So I 818 00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:44,759 Speaker 1: think for a second and I asked, are you good? 819 00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,040 Speaker 1: I sound like a total dumbass, but he says yes. 820 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,000 Speaker 1: The table rocks back and forth, and I swear to God, 821 00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:55,880 Speaker 1: I'm not touching it. I ask is he with bethany 822 00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,879 Speaker 1: my other siblings who passed away? The answer is yes. 823 00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,600 Speaker 1: Has he been watching me? Yes? And I feel Louis 824 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,440 Speaker 1: gates his eyes on me and he says, there's a 825 00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,600 Speaker 1: man from your work here too. He says, you're funny. 826 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,600 Speaker 1: This kind of stops me in my tracks because this 827 00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,399 Speaker 1: doesn't really track for me at all. I can't think 828 00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,200 Speaker 1: of a man who I've worked with who's died that 829 00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,080 Speaker 1: i'd be close enough with to say that I'm funny. 830 00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,440 Speaker 1: But Louis Gates does know that I'm a comedian. You know, 831 00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,920 Speaker 1: it's not inconceivable that he could be taking an educated 832 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,320 Speaker 1: guess on something that I would want to hear. But 833 00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,080 Speaker 1: I shift my focus back to the table. I'm talking 834 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,040 Speaker 1: to Matt, and I'm really feeling the pressure to stick 835 00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:42,240 Speaker 1: the landing on this conversation. But I can't think of anything, 836 00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,840 Speaker 1: and I hear myself blurting out, were you upset about 837 00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,520 Speaker 1: what grandma did? And look, listener, what my grandma did 838 00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,720 Speaker 1: or did not do is none of your business. But 839 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,280 Speaker 1: I was curious if I could communicate with him what 840 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:59,560 Speaker 1: he thought. But the table goes still. The answer is no, 841 00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,360 Speaker 1: and Marie Gates looks at me and says, they don't 842 00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,640 Speaker 1: bring anger into the spirit realm. They really don't. And 843 00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,439 Speaker 1: then the table takes off again. My turn is over 844 00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,560 Speaker 1: and my friend begins a stilted, nervous conversation with her 845 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,080 Speaker 1: grandfather she only met a few times as a kid. 846 00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,520 Speaker 1: And that's my first experience speaking with the dead maybe. 847 00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,480 Speaker 1: This session continues for two hours, and it's strange but 848 00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:30,880 Speaker 1: not unpleasant, except for this one moment that sticks out 849 00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:34,080 Speaker 1: to me. A man who was sitting across the circle 850 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,960 Speaker 1: from me had a tearful yes or no conversation with 851 00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,240 Speaker 1: his father about an hour before on the table, and 852 00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,880 Speaker 1: he hadn't said much sense, even as most of us 853 00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,200 Speaker 1: were whispering with our friends or the regulars to the 854 00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,280 Speaker 1: camp laugh and catch up with each other. But this 855 00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,240 Speaker 1: guy has been keeping to himself, looking down at his 856 00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,160 Speaker 1: hands that are kind of shaking. He wants to believe 857 00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:01,000 Speaker 1: that he's talking to his dead father Bade, but he 858 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:05,480 Speaker 1: clearly has doubts, and finally he breaks and looks to 859 00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 1: Louis and makes a proposition. He asks them, can the 860 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,200 Speaker 1: two of them get on the table, one on one 861 00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:17,600 Speaker 1: and have a conversation with his father. He's half desperately 862 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:21,760 Speaker 1: wanting to make contact and half wanting to reassure himself 863 00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,080 Speaker 1: that there is some chance that all of this might 864 00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,640 Speaker 1: be real. He tells us all that he was with 865 00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:31,280 Speaker 1: his father when he died, and breaks down here for 866 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,760 Speaker 1: a minute because it was just a couple of weeks ago, 867 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,840 Speaker 1: then bounces back. He continues, saying his father was extremely 868 00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:43,400 Speaker 1: Christian when he was alive, while he was more open 869 00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:48,520 Speaker 1: to alternatives like spiritualism. That's why he wanted the one 870 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,160 Speaker 1: on one on the table. He wanted to ask his 871 00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:55,160 Speaker 1: dad what he thought about the afterlife and whether it's 872 00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:59,320 Speaker 1: squared with what he very firmly believed when he was alive. 873 00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:03,640 Speaker 1: And now I'm watching like a sports commentator, like how 874 01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:08,000 Speaker 1: is Lewis going to handle a request this direct? These 875 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,440 Speaker 1: interactions can be difficult to watch because here is a 876 01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,000 Speaker 1: man who is clearly in pain and seeking out answers 877 01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:19,760 Speaker 1: that could very well be unknowable, and it's one person's 878 01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:24,720 Speaker 1: job Louis Gates to assure us that they are knowable. 879 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: Is this okay? I I don't know. It depends on 880 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,800 Speaker 1: so many things, On if you believe in it, on 881 01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,000 Speaker 1: if the person is profiting from it, which it doesn't 882 01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,240 Speaker 1: seem really like this camp is on whether the medium 883 01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:43,320 Speaker 1: believes in what they're doing. Louis definitely does not take 884 01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:47,280 Speaker 1: the man up on the one on one table request. Instead, 885 01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,680 Speaker 1: he says that there is a period of adjustment in 886 01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,960 Speaker 1: the spirit realm in a way that almost sounds matrix e, 887 01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:56,760 Speaker 1: but he says that people in spirit go to a 888 01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:01,160 Speaker 1: place where they feel comfort and acceptance. He says, it's 889 01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,720 Speaker 1: possible that this guy's father is able to attend Christian 890 01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,920 Speaker 1: ceremonies in the spirit realm, and enough time hasn't passed 891 01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:13,240 Speaker 1: for the deceased dad to understand the real truth of 892 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:17,040 Speaker 1: what being in spirit is. The guy doesn't know what 893 01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:21,080 Speaker 1: to say. He doesn't push Reverend Dr. Lewis further, and 894 01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,640 Speaker 1: Louis takes the opportunity to share a personal anecdote, revealing 895 01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,000 Speaker 1: that his father was a Baptist priest who firmly believed 896 01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,680 Speaker 1: in what he preached, and that his mother was a 897 01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:36,760 Speaker 1: spiritualist and that's whose path Lewis decided to follow. Louis 898 01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:40,800 Speaker 1: continued saying that even in the spirit realm, his father 899 01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:45,120 Speaker 1: retained his Baptist beliefs, but that they spoke together often. 900 01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:49,720 Speaker 1: He even goes on walks in Cassadega with his deceased 901 01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:55,560 Speaker 1: father and at this the man seems comforted or maybe 902 01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:59,560 Speaker 1: he's just stumped, and that's the whole class. Lewis releases 903 01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,160 Speaker 1: us through the gift shop, but tells us before we 904 01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,000 Speaker 1: go that you don't need to buy a lot of 905 01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,120 Speaker 1: stuff to be a spiritualist. And actually, you shouldn't buy 906 01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:09,680 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to be a spiritualist. All you 907 01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,480 Speaker 1: need is a couple of courts crystals, he says, and 908 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,320 Speaker 1: a lot of practice. And then he laughs and he 909 01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:19,800 Speaker 1: gestures to the door and says this by whatever you want, though, 910 01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:25,960 Speaker 1: and we do, and so ends my journey in the 911 01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:30,040 Speaker 1: art of Cassadagan table tipping. After we leave, my friend 912 01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:34,360 Speaker 1: wants to provide me with a true, authentic Floridian experience, 913 01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,040 Speaker 1: so we get subs from Publics, which is a grocery 914 01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,040 Speaker 1: store for the uninitiated. It's a go to that she 915 01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:44,160 Speaker 1: coaches me through ordering, and we sit and we talk 916 01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,400 Speaker 1: about the tables. I asked her how she felt about 917 01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,320 Speaker 1: the whole experience, and she says, she isn't really sure 918 01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:54,160 Speaker 1: what to believe, but she was deeply affected by the 919 01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,440 Speaker 1: people who really felt they'd made a connection to a 920 01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:02,320 Speaker 1: recently lost loved one and expressed some embarrassment and asking 921 01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,200 Speaker 1: her dead grandmother if she should text her ax again. 922 01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,200 Speaker 1: It was like the table was screaming, don't do it, 923 01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,320 Speaker 1: and its legs like clattered to the ground, and it 924 01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,600 Speaker 1: was incredible comedic timing on the part of spirit or 925 01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:21,480 Speaker 1: the table, or Reverend Dr Lewis, or some kind of 926 01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:24,680 Speaker 1: combination of the three. She had a good time, but 927 01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,840 Speaker 1: she has no idea what to make of it, and 928 01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:31,480 Speaker 1: I share the story of the Fox Sisters with her 929 01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,480 Speaker 1: because as I've been putting this show together, I find 930 01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:39,240 Speaker 1: myself telling my family and friends the story of spiritualism 931 01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,720 Speaker 1: pretty often, because that's what most religions are. It's a 932 01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,960 Speaker 1: series of stories. Stories you believe in, stories you attach 933 01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:51,040 Speaker 1: moral significance to, and so on. But after a while 934 01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,560 Speaker 1: of doing this, I realized that I was doing something 935 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:58,160 Speaker 1: a little bizarre. I was always sharing the same story, 936 01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,360 Speaker 1: the story of the Foxes. There's the story of my 937 01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:05,520 Speaker 1: experience in Cassadega, But the way that I was framing 938 01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,600 Speaker 1: it very much dependent on the person I was talking to. 939 01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,680 Speaker 1: The people I knew who had faith as a part 940 01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,800 Speaker 1: of their lives. I tended to frame the story of 941 01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:18,840 Speaker 1: the Fox Sisters as a religious story, and they reacted 942 01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,960 Speaker 1: to it with more reverence. But if I told this 943 01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:25,880 Speaker 1: same story framed as something a little weird that got 944 01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:30,840 Speaker 1: popular in the nineteenth century also true, people reacted very 945 01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:35,760 Speaker 1: very differently. It was funnier, it was more bizarre, but 946 01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,960 Speaker 1: it's the same exact story. So far, Ghost Church has 947 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,880 Speaker 1: been a lot of me taking you through my early 948 01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:49,000 Speaker 1: experiences in spiritualism through my eyes, and to be quite honest, 949 01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:52,240 Speaker 1: after this table tipping class, I found myself kind of 950 01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:55,960 Speaker 1: struggling more than ever on how much I was willing 951 01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,360 Speaker 1: to believe, which was a surprise to me. When I 952 01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,959 Speaker 1: arrived in Sadega, I honestly thought I would become more 953 01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:07,200 Speaker 1: and more secure in feeling connected with the spiritualist faith. 954 01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,280 Speaker 1: But a couple of days in and I was very 955 01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,240 Speaker 1: much struggling, and more than anything else, I wanted to 956 01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:16,040 Speaker 1: know how the mediums who practice at the camp now 957 01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:20,200 Speaker 1: were able to find faith like that. So next week 958 01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,640 Speaker 1: we're going to hear from four members of the Cassadega 959 01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:26,560 Speaker 1: community and get a feeling for how they became the 960 01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:30,480 Speaker 1: modern spiritualists, as well as learning tragic ending to the 961 01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,800 Speaker 1: story of the Fox Sisters, the first to be faithful 962 01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:39,360 Speaker 1: to the religion or were they next week on Ghost Church. 963 01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,360 Speaker 1: Ghost Church is a Cool Zone Media production created, written 964 01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:49,040 Speaker 1: and hosted by me Jamie Loftus special thanks to Robert 965 01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:52,800 Speaker 1: Evans for voicing the Reverend Dr Lewis Gates. The show 966 01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,120 Speaker 1: is produced by so E Lichterman, edited by Ian Johnson. 967 01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:00,320 Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Speedy or Tease That's CD Klea, 968 01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:05,400 Speaker 1: Andy Loholt, Audries, Whitesides and Joey Dubeck. Music is by 969 01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:15,240 Speaker 1: Zoe Blade m hm hm