Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is all ball,
Speaker 1: all basketball, all the time. We have a lengthy discussion
Speaker 1: with my man Mike Lewis, uh former Gatorade Player of
Speaker 1: the Year in the State of Indiana. But you'll hear
Speaker 1: an interesting story as far as whether or not he
Speaker 1: was Mr Basketball in the State of Indiana, played for
Speaker 1: I you started for four years. Got some Bob Nights stories, um,
Speaker 1: And then we'll talk about coaching and coaching with with
Speaker 1: Brad Stevens and what that's really like coaching with Tim
Speaker 1: Miles this last year now being an assistant coach at
Speaker 1: u c L A. Plus he played for uh Rick
Speaker 1: Berry in the usb L. We played against each other,
Speaker 1: So we got some good stuff going on with with
Speaker 1: Mike Lewis. He'll join me in a moment. We're less
Speaker 1: than a week away from the free agency bonanza, and
Speaker 1: I don't know what to think. You know, this is
Speaker 1: kind of strangely what we've built up to all year
Speaker 1: is having nothing to do with actual basketball. Um. I'm
Speaker 1: torn on the Kyrie Irving thing because I've been somebody
Speaker 1: who's trying to tell people just how talented he is.
Speaker 1: But I had no idea how much of a pain
Speaker 1: the ass he was until I talked to some people
Speaker 1: that were in Boston and people that have been in Cleveland,
Speaker 1: and they all kind of say the same thing, which is, like, dude,
Speaker 1: he's amazingly talented. He's not a leader. And um, he's
Speaker 1: one of those guys that he's smart enough. It's not
Speaker 1: like he's Magna cum Latti, like you know, he's a
Speaker 1: bright enough guy, but he thinks he knows everything. So
Speaker 1: he tries to look for, you know, higher meaning for
Speaker 1: every little thing you just want to get, like oh,
Speaker 1: just wears people out. And because he was kind of
Speaker 1: brought up in this under Lebron's wing, that's how you lead.
Speaker 1: He tries to be Lebron James and Evisceray dudes in film,
Speaker 1: and he's not Lebron James. And even Lebron remember he
Speaker 1: when when he lights into dudes, which he didn't do
Speaker 1: this year. This year, he would just turn very negative
Speaker 1: on guys. He's he's still been Lebron James and all
Speaker 1: those guys have been brought in, you know, to play
Speaker 1: with him, whereas you know, Kyrie Irving was brought to
Speaker 1: the Celtics and then they played without him, and so
Speaker 1: it's just doesn't have a great feel for the social
Speaker 1: jiu jitsu. As a friend of mine says of the moment,
Speaker 1: So I'm Kevin Durant, Like, is that the guy I
Speaker 1: want to tie my ship too? Like? I have a
Speaker 1: choice of Steph Curry, who's like, look, is Steph easy
Speaker 1: to play with? Maybe not? He takes some crazy shots,
Speaker 1: he turns the ball over. You gotta hide for him defensively,
Speaker 1: but as a guy, he's easy. Or you got Kyrie Irving,
Speaker 1: who is a better ball handler, is an incredible shotmaker. Differently,
Speaker 1: um but does something is actually better than Steph Curry.
Speaker 1: But it's just every day is heavy. It's not that
Speaker 1: much fun. I don't know, I've as I just stay
Speaker 1: in Golden State. Everybody's everybody wants to accomplish all these
Speaker 1: things off the basket before you have the best way
Speaker 1: to accomplish things out the BASKETBA floor is win fucking championships.
Speaker 1: Excuse my language if you have kids listening to this,
Speaker 1: but this whole idea of you know, if you go
Speaker 1: to New York, you can lots of guys that played
Speaker 1: in New York. You see any of them on TV. No,
Speaker 1: you know why their team sucks. That's why do I
Speaker 1: see Steph Curry on a bunch of ads? Oakland was
Speaker 1: in some big market. Steph Curry is awesome. That's it, right,
Speaker 1: that's it. Lebron James had no trouble getting ads in
Speaker 1: Akron or in Miami. Why because he's Lebron James. He's awesome.
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook has no problem getting ads. Paul George has
Speaker 1: no problem getting as he played Indianapolis and Oklahma City.
Speaker 1: If you're really good and you got a good personality,
Speaker 1: you have option options. Like it is just such a
Speaker 1: such a bunch of bullshit that you have to, like,
Speaker 1: you gott to move to New York. Why because rich
Speaker 1: Climbing lives in New York? Like all right, Like the
Speaker 1: perfect example actually is billionaire Row for the Golden State Warriors.
Speaker 1: Why not to New York when all the people with
Speaker 1: all the money, all the game changers, they're right here.
Speaker 1: I hate to be that guy, but all the game
Speaker 1: changers in the world are in Silicon Valley. That's where
Speaker 1: the money is. Even in our industry. Like we're all
Speaker 1: just waiting to see when Apple or Facebook or Google
Speaker 1: or Amazon or Yahoo. They just you know, they just
Speaker 1: buy something. They're like, all right, we have f you money.
Speaker 1: Here's f you like they do that. They can buy
Speaker 1: all of us ten times over. And you want to
Speaker 1: win to New York. That's the media capital of the world. No,
Speaker 1: it's not the capital world is in Silicon Valley, Dude,
Speaker 1: I hate to I hate to be that guys, like,
Speaker 1: this is not the ES, It's two thousand. All the
Speaker 1: money is in San Francisco and all the unknown and yeah,
Speaker 1: there's some pitfalls and played in Golden State. Might not
Speaker 1: be your team whenever they might only had to call
Speaker 1: in you to bail them out. You gotta play both ends.
Speaker 1: Gets a little bit old, Okay, I'll tell you what's worse.
Speaker 1: The monotony of losing teaching people who have never won
Speaker 1: a franchise, has never won to win. I just this
Speaker 1: whole idea of like, you gotta go to New York.
Speaker 1: Why Jerry Lynn had to go to New York because
Speaker 1: he was a nobody got an opportunity with a team
Speaker 1: that was banged up and a co in Mike D'Antoni.
Speaker 1: You're not jermy Lyne're Kevin Durant. Stay where you are
Speaker 1: with a bunch of titles. Have the Last Laugh. By
Speaker 1: the way, you can listen to my daily radio show
Speaker 1: three to six Eastern or twelve three Pacific on Fox
Speaker 1: Sports Radio or the I Heart Radio app. Alright, let's
Speaker 1: get you to Mike Lewis. He has just become a
Speaker 1: new assistant coach at U c l A. He played
Speaker 1: in Indiana, He coached at Brett Butler, he coached in
Speaker 1: Nebraski coach the Eastern Illinois coach of Texas Tech. He
Speaker 1: coaches Stephen F. Austin without fur their doo. Here's my
Speaker 1: discussion with U c l A assistant former Indiana player
Speaker 1: and captain Mike Lewis. All right, let's start at the beginning, right,
Speaker 1: Jasper Indiana. Right, that's where you were Mr Basketball in
Speaker 1: the state of Indiana. Um, you're you're like you started
Speaker 1: whooping when like birth. Right, That's that's an Indiana thing.
Speaker 1: You grew up whooping the driveway. Did you have a
Speaker 1: half court out back pick? Give me the picturesque Indiana
Speaker 1: setting of Mike Lewis's upbringing. Well, I had a basketball
Speaker 1: goal in the the driveway, but I was I was
Speaker 1: lucky to have a have a dad that was a
Speaker 1: basketball coach, um in high school. Coach in high school,
Speaker 1: and so I was I was lucky enough to tag
Speaker 1: along the practices and um games, and so I was
Speaker 1: always I was always in a gym. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean everybody in Indiana grows up. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: there's there's hoops everywhere. I mean, if you can, you've
Speaker 1: got a flat side of the building, you can go
Speaker 1: to basketball whoop on it in Indiana. So it's obviously
Speaker 1: a great place to grow up. Um. I was always
Speaker 1: around the game. My grandfather coach. Like I said, my
Speaker 1: dad coach. My grandfather became the commissioner of the Indiana
Speaker 1: High School Athletic Association for many years until my junior
Speaker 1: year of high school when he retired. Um my dad
Speaker 1: coached all the way up until my junior year high
Speaker 1: school when he became the athletic director um at our
Speaker 1: at our high school. And so I just always around
Speaker 1: the game. UM. Very fortunate from that aspect, probably like
Speaker 1: you just you know, having a dad that that allows
Speaker 1: you to develop and grow at your own page as
Speaker 1: a basketball player. And when when when you're allowed to
Speaker 1: grow up that way, you learned to love the game
Speaker 1: and appreciate everything that the game can give you. Okay,
Speaker 1: So your dad was the coach of Jasper, your entire
Speaker 1: yours now now we moved, We moved around. Like I
Speaker 1: was born in Indianapolis. My dad was an assistant coach
Speaker 1: at Lebanon High School just on the northwest side of
Speaker 1: Indianapolis for legendary high school coach named Jim rosen Steele
Speaker 1: who coached Rick Mount way back in the day. And
Speaker 1: that's where my dad got his start. And then he
Speaker 1: became a head coach Triton Central High School, Lufton High School,
Speaker 1: at Frontier High School, and then we moved to Jasper,
Speaker 1: Indiana when I was going into second grade, and he
Speaker 1: became the varsity assistant at Jasper and was that held
Speaker 1: that position when he became the athletic director my junior
Speaker 1: year high school. So he wasn't then he moved around,
Speaker 1: We moved around. I was. I was. I Actually, the
Speaker 1: funny story is I grew up a Purdue fan. When
Speaker 1: I was a little kid, I went to prede basketball
Speaker 1: camps and I worked camps as a counselor all the
Speaker 1: way up and you know, until I got into high school.
Speaker 1: And and then obviously Jasper from the southwestern part of Indiana,
Speaker 1: and you're in you're in Merston, and I U culture
Speaker 1: and and uh that's when it became pretty apparent I
Speaker 1: was gonna go to Indiana. I had a chance. Why
Speaker 1: did you like Why why did you like Perdue? Because
Speaker 1: everybody else, like Indiana was one of those things. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean Frontier High School was twenty minutes from Prince
Speaker 1: Campas I spent a majority of my younger years up
Speaker 1: until second grade, I was in northern Indiana. Um, and
Speaker 1: at that time, like you didn't have you know, ESPN
Speaker 1: wasn't big, you didn't you got Channel four, and so
Speaker 1: you saw the games on TV at that time. And
Speaker 1: in Indiana you got Perdue in Indiana and on football
Speaker 1: Saturdays you got Notre Dame. So I just grew up
Speaker 1: around pretty basketball up until second grade when we moved
Speaker 1: to southwestern Indiana. And uh, you know I was able
Speaker 1: to My dad worked the camps. I would go with him.
Speaker 1: I gotta be a counselor at a young age, and uh,
Speaker 1: I just kind of had that and then and then
Speaker 1: obviously things changed as I got older. Okay, so, uh,
Speaker 1: you're in high school, your dad, so your dad wasn't
Speaker 1: the varsity head coach now he was assistant coach. So
Speaker 1: what And then when when did you start playing varsity?
Speaker 1: I started playing as freshman. I started, um um, as
Speaker 1: a freshman in high school, I played uh my first name,
Speaker 1: I played three quarters of JV one game of arsity.
Speaker 1: Um my second game, I've played one quarter of JB,
Speaker 1: three quarters of varsity, and then I played the rest varsity.
Speaker 1: So I was I was. Actually I actually had a
Speaker 1: teammate high school teammate named Scott Roland, who obviously is
Speaker 1: a Major League baseball fame. So he was a senior
Speaker 1: when I was a freshman, and and um, you know,
Speaker 1: it was a great good time. A lot of people
Speaker 1: don't realize, oh one was what a great basketball player
Speaker 1: he was. He's Namdi, an all star, sent a scholarship
Speaker 1: of Georgia. And then obviously I think he made the
Speaker 1: right decision by pursuing baseball. Um, but out standing high
Speaker 1: school player. Your childhood hero was who Damon Bailey? Okay,
Speaker 1: what town did day? I mean, like, I I know
Speaker 1: the legend of David Bailey and and this is like
Speaker 1: that you're gonna have a distinct cutoff between anybody our
Speaker 1: age and anybody like five years younger probably doesn't, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I just were just being kind of honest. And it
Speaker 1: was because of it is because of the Season on
Speaker 1: the Brink really where when Steve Alford was there, who
Speaker 1: was all everything, all anybody could talk about was Damon Bailey.
Speaker 1: He committed to Indiana as like a freshman, and uh,
Speaker 1: it was kind of looming over. Everybody's said the damon
Speaker 1: Damon Bailey's coming. Um, so so take me through the
Speaker 1: Damon bailthing. He grew up where he grew up in Bedford.
Speaker 1: Uh we're actually a small town, um just outside of Bedford,
Speaker 1: but he went to Bedford North Lawrence High School. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of hard to explain if you
Speaker 1: weren't growing up or we're if you weren't in Indiana
Speaker 1: at that time. I mean he was like the Beatles.
Speaker 1: I mean everywhere he went, every gym was sold out,
Speaker 1: every game was sold out. Um, he would just get
Speaker 1: mobbed everywhere he went. And a lot of it was,
Speaker 1: you know, because of the Season on the Brink book
Speaker 1: and the notoriety that he got um from that when
Speaker 1: coach knight Win watched him as an eighth grader, um,
Speaker 1: but he uh, I mean he and then he had
Speaker 1: a great, great high school career, had had a really
Speaker 1: good college career. But just you know, I mean, who
Speaker 1: can live up to the expectations of what was was
Speaker 1: put on him at that time? But he was he
Speaker 1: was everything in anybody in in the n at that
Speaker 1: time you wanted to grow up and and be Damon Bailey.
Speaker 1: And then, um, you know, the Pacers had started to
Speaker 1: get rolling as I got into junior high and so
Speaker 1: you know, then I guess you know, my second childhood
Speaker 1: hero would be be Reggie Miller, which is it's kind
Speaker 1: of ironic now you're sitting sitting on a campus where
Speaker 1: he once walked around. I was this ball boy a
Speaker 1: couple of times because I was. I grew up playing
Speaker 1: with with the Hazard boys, um with you know, Doc
Speaker 1: Hazard and with Jalil and um Rashid Hazard and so
Speaker 1: Rashid and I would go be ball boys. And like
Speaker 1: here here's what people don't know about about Reggie. He
Speaker 1: was an unbelievable college player as a shooter. But they
Speaker 1: were terrible. They were massive underachievers, like for for years
Speaker 1: they they had so much skill, but he pooh Richardson
Speaker 1: Um Charles Roshlyn like they had his squad, and I
Speaker 1: remember going to like n I T games and I
Speaker 1: was like, how are these guys in the n I T.
Speaker 1: When they at U c l A. Was just kind
Speaker 1: of a it's kind of one of the things that
Speaker 1: gets glossed over a little bit, but that that is so.
Speaker 1: But the n I T was was much bigger at
Speaker 1: that time, you know. But I remember like, this is
Speaker 1: not this is not the sixties, dude, or seventies. I'm
Speaker 1: talking mid eighties. Yeah, so we're talking. We're talking mid
Speaker 1: eighties U c l A in the mid eighties, in
Speaker 1: the in the in the in the in the n
Speaker 1: I T against Fresno State in the Red Wave. Um,
Speaker 1: that that's not exactly what they were what they were thinking.
Speaker 1: So well they beat I know, they beat the Hoosiers
Speaker 1: and that. But I was I was in Indiana All
Speaker 1: Star after I graduated high school, and and we were
Speaker 1: working out in Indianapolis since we're getting ready to play Kentucky,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, Reggie was doing an individual workout
Speaker 1: on well there's this little workout facility. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: not even sure it's still there. Was on I U
Speaker 1: P UIs campus, which is where we were practicing, and
Speaker 1: he was kind of finishing up a workout and obviously
Speaker 1: you've got twelve uh Indiana high school players you know
Speaker 1: there and and so we you know, they brought Reggie
Speaker 1: over and introduced this and we actually gotta play you know,
Speaker 1: a small pickup game you know with him. Um you know,
Speaker 1: which which I'm sure at that time was a highlight
Speaker 1: of many of our guys, is you know, careers, you know,
Speaker 1: to just step on the floor and play against Reggie
Speaker 1: uh in back in when he was ripping and rawn
Speaker 1: for for the Pacers. So, um, you know, when you
Speaker 1: grew up in Indiana, you're you're not you're a you're
Speaker 1: a produce fan, You're a you're an Indianapolis called sand
Speaker 1: and you're you're an Indiana Pacer fan. And so to
Speaker 1: be able to step on the flora with him as
Speaker 1: a high school player at that time, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's huge for all of us. Yeah. In fairness, his
Speaker 1: senior year they did win the pac ten that uh pout.
Speaker 1: Richardson was a sophomore that him put Richston got named
Speaker 1: Trevor Wilson, who was like an energizer bunny. Um, Greg
Speaker 1: Foster was a freshman. Jackie the the late Jack Hayley
Speaker 1: was there. My boy, Kevin Walker was like a six
Speaker 1: eleven shooter wh would be like a first round draft
Speaker 1: pick as a stretch five nowadays. Uh so they they
Speaker 1: had a squad, but there were a couple of years
Speaker 1: there with a little murky when uh you're early on
Speaker 1: when he was at all. Right, So, um, your senior
Speaker 1: year you were Mr Basketball was Gatorade Player of the
Speaker 1: Years at the same as Mr Basketball. Actually I was
Speaker 1: Gatorade Player of the Year. I was runner up on
Speaker 1: Mr Basketball. A guy named Kevin a guy named Kevin All.
Speaker 1: He went to Warsaw High School in northern Indiana and
Speaker 1: went and played at Southwest Missouri Status now Missouri State
Speaker 1: in the Missouri Valley. UM actually was recruited by Steve
Speaker 1: Alford Missouri State. He won Mr Basketball. Um, I came
Speaker 1: in second. We had it. There was a really good
Speaker 1: player named Roon Cornell's going to Purdue UM that finished
Speaker 1: under that and you know, honestly, looking back, Um, there
Speaker 1: was a guy that knew Albany High School, UM that
Speaker 1: may have been the best player in Indiana that year
Speaker 1: and then named Lamont Rowland and he he had gone
Speaker 1: to Ball State, gotten some trouble, went to junior college
Speaker 1: route and then Um finished his career at l s
Speaker 1: U UM. But when you get into practices and you
Speaker 1: get into competing, and you know how it is that
Speaker 1: guy stand out and and Lamont may have been the
Speaker 1: most talented player, uh in our class at that time.
Speaker 1: But no, I I was running up. I was, I
Speaker 1: was running up to Mr. Basketball. Not not that it's
Speaker 1: still kind of sticks in my crawl a little bit.
Speaker 1: I know. I know so no, no so so, and
Speaker 1: it should here's this is funny. So you know, like
Speaker 1: I'll tell you I was. We had we had rankings,
Speaker 1: we had the best in the West rankings. UM and
Speaker 1: a guy who was there's a there's a guy ahead
Speaker 1: of I don't know from San Diego I'd never actually
Speaker 1: heard of. I think he panned out, uh flamed out
Speaker 1: of sending a statement. The guy who's like ranked behind me,
Speaker 1: who I never played against, was Jason Terry. And I
Speaker 1: was like, who's Jason Terry from Seattle, Washington? And uh,
Speaker 1: the jet actually committed he was going to you Dub
Speaker 1: and then he changed his mind and went to Arizona.
Speaker 1: I remember for a long time, but like, dude, that
Speaker 1: guy I've never even heard of him. Obviously now you know,
Speaker 1: fast forward, I'm an idiot. He's awesome player. Um. And
Speaker 1: then for me it was my my second time round
Speaker 1: after I transferred from Notre Dame, I sat out for
Speaker 1: a year. Kansas took Ryan Uh. Ryan Robertson was there,
Speaker 1: and Ryan Robertson was McDonald's All American ahead of me,
Speaker 1: and like, look the Magic's roundball thing I got to
Speaker 1: play in. Chauncey Phillips was there, was I was a
Speaker 1: replacement for Chauncey got hurt and their Stephan Marbury. There's
Speaker 1: one of the guy Brian Williams went to Alabama. I
Speaker 1: thought that was better than but Ryan Robertson, like I
Speaker 1: always had like this personal vendetta against him because I
Speaker 1: was like, man, how could they take him at Kansas
Speaker 1: instead of me? And then I was like, he's actually
Speaker 1: really good. He played in the NBA. He's actually a
Speaker 1: pretty happy there's no question, go ahead, no, you go ahead.
Speaker 1: I've never I've never felt helpless on a basketball court.
Speaker 1: And when I had to guard Chouhnson Bill. So the
Speaker 1: first round in the n c A tournament my freshman year. Um,
Speaker 1: I think we're like an a ceed they're a nine seed. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, we kind of have a little bit of
Speaker 1: THEU elitist you know, thoughts like who's you know Colorado?
Speaker 1: You know, blah blah blah. Um. Then we go in
Speaker 1: and they smoked us. They smoke us in. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean Chauncey was just like he was just so strong,
Speaker 1: so under control. Um, you know, I'm a freshman and
Speaker 1: and uh, he just I mean I think he gave
Speaker 1: me like thirty four thirty five. I'm still a matter
Speaker 1: of fact, I'm still waiting on some checks from Chauncey
Speaker 1: because I think he was about a mid to late
Speaker 1: first round pick and in the n c A tournament
Speaker 1: after he dropped us off that I un he was
Speaker 1: he got into the lottery. So I'm still still hoping
Speaker 1: maybe to meet up with him, maybe he'll give me
Speaker 1: a a little bit of that extra money. I didn't
Speaker 1: feel so bad years later once he, you know, became
Speaker 1: the NBA Finals MVP, but I was. I've never it's
Speaker 1: a terrible feeling. I'm sure we've all had it, but
Speaker 1: I've never felt more helpless on a basketball court been
Speaker 1: trying to Gordon Chauncey BIPs had played thirty two minutes
Speaker 1: only at twenty four points. Uh it does yeah right, Um,
Speaker 1: that's funny. That's really funny. Yeah, here's here's my here's
Speaker 1: my here's my Chauncey story was he came out. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say he was a junior and there used to
Speaker 1: be these events the Pumps would put on at cal
Speaker 1: State Domingus Hills and I don't remember who he usually
Speaker 1: played with, but but everyone had heard of Chauncey. He
Speaker 1: was like the best guard in the western United States.
Speaker 1: And so he came and he stayed at my house,
Speaker 1: and um, and like you know, we played together for
Speaker 1: a weekend. It was it was a good tournament. Maybe
Speaker 1: it was for like a week during the summer, and
Speaker 1: it was like the first week of summer before you
Speaker 1: go to Vegas. He played with us and stayed at
Speaker 1: our house. We practiced for a couple of days, and
Speaker 1: I just remember, like my dad was my dad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I always played point for my dad. My dad
Speaker 1: was like, you know, you can let bring it, bring
Speaker 1: it whatever he wants, which was my dad's wave of saying,
Speaker 1: like he's so much better than you because and and
Speaker 1: and in fairness, like Chauncey was, you know, and he
Speaker 1: was a scoring guard where I was obviously if it's
Speaker 1: even at that level like a facilitator. But um, but
Speaker 1: I I just I remember playing and it's it's one
Speaker 1: of those you have those moments when you're on a
Speaker 1: basketball floor and you and you're just like, oh, that
Speaker 1: guy is gonna play in the NBA. And and I
Speaker 1: grew and and and in southern California, like you had
Speaker 1: a sense that you know, was Paul Pierce or Ricky
Speaker 1: Price or I grew up? JR. Henderson was on my team,
Speaker 1: Miles Simon. You always thought like those guys are really good.
Speaker 1: But there was a there was like this calm elegance
Speaker 1: to the way he played that is a very unique style.
Speaker 1: Like other guys, they're just a I when I was
Speaker 1: in Georgetown, when I was it Notre Dame, we played Georgetown,
Speaker 1: and like I ressumely just a physical free because he
Speaker 1: was fast and quick. Um, he wasn't. He wasn't very good,
Speaker 1: but he was fast and quick, and so it just
Speaker 1: made him like holy sh it, you just hope he misses.
Speaker 1: But there was there was no kind of uniqueness to
Speaker 1: his study was just a blur. Whereas Chauncey, he was
Speaker 1: like sixteen years old and he just he looked he
Speaker 1: felt like an NBA veteran, like he knew everything about
Speaker 1: everywhere where everyone was supposed to be. He was so any,
Speaker 1: made shots, he was so good. So, uh, your Indiana
Speaker 1: Senior U All Star Team, Like, what's that for people
Speaker 1: who don't know what that's like? What's that like? As
Speaker 1: an honor? And then how do you who do you
Speaker 1: play against? But it's it's like the culmination of your
Speaker 1: high school career is that you know you got the
Speaker 1: you get Mr Basketball's name, and then you get normally
Speaker 1: have twelve Indiana All Stars, UM, and you know it's
Speaker 1: a huge It's just a huge deal in Indiana to
Speaker 1: finish your high school career. And in Indiana all started
Speaker 1: to be able to say you were an Indiana All Star.
Speaker 1: And back when I was in it, it was a
Speaker 1: two week deal. Like you you met up, you practiced
Speaker 1: four a week, you had a little exhibition game. You
Speaker 1: would play the Kentucky All Star Team, UM, and we
Speaker 1: played them in Lexington on UK's campus. And then you
Speaker 1: would have another week of practice and then you would
Speaker 1: come to Indianapolis and we played him, and then you
Speaker 1: would play the Kentucky All Star team again, UM, and
Speaker 1: we played him in Market Square Arena. It was just
Speaker 1: it was a huge series, a lot of pride between
Speaker 1: both states and UM, he was just a great honor
Speaker 1: and I think it's something that you know, I still remember.
Speaker 1: I'm sure anybody that's been a part of that, that
Speaker 1: experience is something that they remember. And the ones that
Speaker 1: got maybe shinned a little bit. I think it's some
Speaker 1: of that sticks sticks with them for some time. Um.
Speaker 1: You know that they they hold on too, you know,
Speaker 1: and you just like the young guy at Belmont, at
Speaker 1: Dylan Windler that just got you know, it was the
Speaker 1: first round draft pick. He did not make the indian
Speaker 1: All Star Team. And I just read an article the
Speaker 1: other day about about the mistake that was made on him.
Speaker 1: So and I think it's something that he used his
Speaker 1: motivation as he got into college to prove some people wrong.
Speaker 1: So it's just unbelievable on it. Um, you know, to
Speaker 1: grow up in the state where basketball means so much
Speaker 1: and then to be recognized, UM, at the end of
Speaker 1: your career as an Indie All Starting to get to
Speaker 1: compete and represent your state against Kentucky. Um. Some of
Speaker 1: it is some of it is hindsight though, right, Like
Speaker 1: some times guys become better players. Like that's one of
Speaker 1: the things we do a bad job in the media of.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know what Dylan win To looked like
Speaker 1: when he was a high school senior. But some guys
Speaker 1: just get They just get better, and some guys don't get.
Speaker 1: Some guys top out, or some guys go mental, or
Speaker 1: some guys discover girls or you know, women when they
Speaker 1: get to college. You know. Um, So early hyph doesn't
Speaker 1: help these kids. The early high you know, almost hinders
Speaker 1: some of these kids. Like when I was when I
Speaker 1: was an assistant coach at Brother we would tell the
Speaker 1: Gordon Hayward story all the time. Like at the end
Speaker 1: of Gordon Hayward's junior year of high school, he wasn't
Speaker 1: considered one of the top twenty players in the in
Speaker 1: his grade in Indiana, and three years later he's the
Speaker 1: eighth pick in the world. Like, I mean, how do
Speaker 1: you you know? But he wanted physically matured, um, and
Speaker 1: he just he worked on his game. He developed, he
Speaker 1: was in the he was in the right situation where
Speaker 1: he experienced some success. He was in the right situation
Speaker 1: where he was able to play uh and contribute right away,
Speaker 1: and then you know, things just snball and he became
Speaker 1: an eighth pick in the draft, and means it's an
Speaker 1: unbelievable story that in three years you're not even top
Speaker 1: twenty in your own state, in your own age group,
Speaker 1: and three years later, you you know, you're you're a
Speaker 1: lottery pick. Um, you know. So, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of that early hype sometimes can can hurt kids, and
Speaker 1: then you know other kids, like people develop a different
Speaker 1: times and they just can continue to work and work
Speaker 1: at Fonso McKinney's, you know, with the with the Warriors,
Speaker 1: everybody likes to talk about offs and McKinney. I was
Speaker 1: on the staff at Eastern Illinois when we recruited. I
Speaker 1: was one of the coaches that was part of the
Speaker 1: staff that didn't He wasn't even in our top eight
Speaker 1: or nine his freshman year at Eastern Illinois. You know,
Speaker 1: we we knew we had this kid that had unbelievable athleticism.
Speaker 1: He was an unbelievable kid. You're trying to figure out
Speaker 1: ways the plame and and Um you know, now he's
Speaker 1: contributing on a team that went all the way to
Speaker 1: the NBA Finals. So everybody's got their unique story. I
Speaker 1: loved reading about those, um but like what you said,
Speaker 1: people develop at different times and mature a different times,
Speaker 1: and some people work and some people sit back and
Speaker 1: and think about how good they are. Totally no. I
Speaker 1: mean I I used that with my my own son,
Speaker 1: where he wasn't an All Star in baseball last year
Speaker 1: and this year he is, and you know, and he
Speaker 1: even has some ups and downs, and I was like, look, dude,
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta look at how much you've improved,
Speaker 1: you know. And last year I would play him up
Speaker 1: in a you not a high level of you, but
Speaker 1: like I basically couldn't let him handle the ball because
Speaker 1: he lose it so much. One because he just coming
Speaker 1: from Connecticut to California's such a big jump. And then
Speaker 1: he's playing against older kids and he just didn't have it.
Speaker 1: So now he's able to, you know, bring the ball
Speaker 1: up against older competition and do a decent job, you know,
Speaker 1: and then when he plays against his own age roup,
Speaker 1: he's pretty good, and you know, it's it's but it's
Speaker 1: hard because You don't want to kill a kid's confidence.
Speaker 1: But the other hand, you want to teach them that
Speaker 1: it's it's not about how good yards about how much
Speaker 1: better you have gotten since yesterday, how much better you
Speaker 1: can get kind of tomorrow. All Right, you show up
Speaker 1: at India. This is nineteen nineties six, right, Um, I
Speaker 1: think you only have like I remember that team, you
Speaker 1: only had one senior, right, wasn't Harris Mazinevitch? The only
Speaker 1: like senior you have in that team? Is a really
Speaker 1: young team for a for a Bob Night team, wasn't it. Yeah?
Speaker 1: We had we had a group of juniors and a
Speaker 1: group of freshmens that, um, you know, I think we're
Speaker 1: heavily relied on and um, you know at that time,
Speaker 1: you know that the junior class was very highly regarded. Um,
Speaker 1: you know with Andre Patterson and Neil Reid and Charlie Miller. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, Jason Collier was in Jason Collier was in
Speaker 1: our class who was a McDonald Lall American, Um, A
Speaker 1: j Guyden was very under recruited but ended up being
Speaker 1: the best player. I mean you know that as a
Speaker 1: senior was the first team All American. But um, we
Speaker 1: started three freshman and two juniors our first game that
Speaker 1: year against Connecticut and in the Hoosier Dolman from a
Speaker 1: thirty five thousand. So um, it was you know, from
Speaker 1: me going up in Indiana and watching that and being
Speaker 1: being able to be a part of that and obviously
Speaker 1: getting a uh getting the start in your first collegian
Speaker 1: game was what's pretty exciting for me? What's that like
Speaker 1: to to run out you got candy stripe pants on
Speaker 1: a white Indiana jersey, like like, honestly, I mean, do
Speaker 1: you what is that feeling like to be in the
Speaker 1: locker room and to see your number candy stripe pants
Speaker 1: and realize and you're running out at the Who's your
Speaker 1: Dome against Yukon. Yeah, I mean it's it's one of
Speaker 1: the really cool experiences, you know, of my life because
Speaker 1: you you grow up, you know, it's it's like, you
Speaker 1: know what what you w envision growing up out here?
Speaker 1: You know, you you envision growing up out here and
Speaker 1: then running out in Pauli in the U c l
Speaker 1: A uniform like it's the same thing just where I
Speaker 1: grew up. Um, but yeah, it was. It was an
Speaker 1: unbelievable experience in the Union at that time. Recruiting was
Speaker 1: much different if you had an opportunity. If you're in
Speaker 1: Indiana and you had an opportunity to play it on you,
Speaker 1: that's where you're going. And it always really UM no
Speaker 1: other options, you know, like they had first rider refusal,
Speaker 1: you know, much like I think U. C l A.
Speaker 1: UM has had out here for for a number of
Speaker 1: years and something that that we need to get back
Speaker 1: to UM now that that we're out here and UM,
Speaker 1: it's it's just kind of where you grew up. That's
Speaker 1: what you saw, is what you were used to UM,
Speaker 1: and so obviously it was a man a lot to
Speaker 1: me to put put the uniform on and represent UM Indiana.
Speaker 1: That's joke, man, That's that's really really cool. UM. What
Speaker 1: was did? Did did coach and I do at home? Visit? No? Man,
Speaker 1: My my recruitings, I might have been one of the
Speaker 1: easiest recruits of all time. Like I started getting recruited
Speaker 1: by them my sophomore year of high school. And when
Speaker 1: I stay recruited, they invited myself and my dad, my
Speaker 1: high school coach, to a game UM, and we went
Speaker 1: up to a game UM. And then my junior year UM,
Speaker 1: I kind of had like I lived an hour and
Speaker 1: a half away from from Bloomington. So I kind of
Speaker 1: could come up anytime I wanted, any any game I wanted,
Speaker 1: And it got to a point, you know, I would
Speaker 1: I would take a buddy, or you know, I take
Speaker 1: a girlfriend or you know, sometimes my dad would go
Speaker 1: with me. And they were playing Minnesota late late in
Speaker 1: the year and back from Minnesota the Shawn Leonard and
Speaker 1: I was, uh until called up and told him I
Speaker 1: was coming to the game, and uh, you know, Coach
Speaker 1: Dock he was like, hey, why don't you bring your
Speaker 1: mom and dad up? You know, So mom and dad
Speaker 1: came with me on this trip and and uh they
Speaker 1: got beat by Minnesota, which did not happen, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, Indiana didn't lose in Thesembly hall very often
Speaker 1: and during that time period, and and uh so we
Speaker 1: were just gonna go home, like we know how things
Speaker 1: you know, could get after a lawsuit, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: go home, and and Dock he came out and said, no, no,
Speaker 1: coach wants to talk to you. Why don't you guys
Speaker 1: stick around? And so I remember sitting down in what
Speaker 1: they called the players lounge, and there was no there
Speaker 1: was no lounge part of it. It was just kind
Speaker 1: of a room with the TV and three chairs, and
Speaker 1: we sat in there for what seemed like an hour,
Speaker 1: and and Coach and I finally walked in with his
Speaker 1: long time media buddy bought him on and the dock
Speaker 1: he was there, and Coach had a sweater off, and
Speaker 1: his collar was half up on one side and down
Speaker 1: on the other and here all disheveled, you know, And
Speaker 1: he sat down and uh, he said, Mike, I'm going
Speaker 1: hunting tomorrow. Do you know anywhere I can shoot birds
Speaker 1: down and around Jasper? And I'm sixteen years old, Doug, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't. I've never been hunting in my life. Like
Speaker 1: I had no idea, I said, you know, so I
Speaker 1: kind of like Coach, I don't know. You know, I
Speaker 1: got some buddies that do some hunting. I can probably
Speaker 1: help you out, but I really don't. I wouldn't know
Speaker 1: where to tell you to go. And he kind of
Speaker 1: took a deep breath and he said, you want to
Speaker 1: play ball here? And I said yeah. And he stood
Speaker 1: up and he shook my mom and dad's hand, shook
Speaker 1: my hand, put his hand on my shoulder and said,
Speaker 1: all right, boy, I see you later. I walked out
Speaker 1: and that was that was my dad. That was my
Speaker 1: commendment story. We were my mom and dad. We walked
Speaker 1: all the way out to the car, and uh, we
Speaker 1: get to the car and my dad started up and
Speaker 1: before we take off, like nobody has said a word
Speaker 1: up until that point, He's like, what just happened? I said,
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to Indiana and and uh that
Speaker 1: was it late in my junior year of high school
Speaker 1: and and um, you know, so that was I don't
Speaker 1: think I was really heavily recruited by them, but it
Speaker 1: worked out for everybody in the end, So that was
Speaker 1: my recruiting. So I think that probably one of the
Speaker 1: easiest one, you know, he did get. He did get
Speaker 1: Brian Evans on the phone. Call um, and I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: you wanted kind of hit him with the same thing,
Speaker 1: you won't play a ball here, and and Brian said,
Speaker 1: I'd like to talk to my mom and dad, and
Speaker 1: I think I think coach said I'll call you back
Speaker 1: in thirty minutes. So I call him back in thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: It was done, and Brian Evans was an NBA player
Speaker 1: and Big Ten Player of the Year. So that's just
Speaker 1: how it was. Back there. It was. It was a
Speaker 1: different time that recruiting services were now. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: the TV was different, social media wasn't it wasn't around,
Speaker 1: and so I think recruiting was much more regionalized. All right,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you my U c l A story now,
Speaker 1: So because there are u c l A people that
Speaker 1: think I still like have it in for U c
Speaker 1: l A. So, uh, my, my my dad had U
Speaker 1: c l A season tickets since really I think not
Speaker 1: Farmers when Walt Hazard was there, and so we would
Speaker 1: go and what he would do is he would you know,
Speaker 1: either giveaway or sell a lot of the kind of
Speaker 1: average games. And then we always go to the Arizona game.
Speaker 1: They played Duke one year when there was both their
Speaker 1: top ten teams. Was unbelievable atmosphere. Um, and we would
Speaker 1: go and and you know, if they played Oregon State
Speaker 1: was good back then Arizona State, we go to it.
Speaker 1: You know, we go to a couple of weekend games,
Speaker 1: a couple week night games, and um, as I kind
Speaker 1: of got and then Herrick took over and and my
Speaker 1: dad was pretty close with Herrick, and he coached in
Speaker 1: a in a select kind of all star game against
Speaker 1: the Russians. He coached Mitchell Butler and Tracy Murray part
Speaker 1: of an unbelievable recruiting class that went there, and so
Speaker 1: they never And then my sister was a cheerleader there
Speaker 1: and she's uh was she's ninety, she's like five years
Speaker 1: older than me really, so I was always there, Like
Speaker 1: I didn't go to practice uh much every once in
Speaker 1: a while, but you know, it's like forty five. It's
Speaker 1: our from my house, but I go to some games
Speaker 1: and the way it's kind of same thing with like
Speaker 1: unofficial visits. So it might have been because we had
Speaker 1: season tickets. It was likely because I wasn't that good, right,
Speaker 1: like I was a because I stayed back. I was
Speaker 1: like a late bloomer. And most of the guys I
Speaker 1: grew up playing with were a class of ninety four,
Speaker 1: which is an awesome class in the state of California.
Speaker 1: That's Toby Bailey, Jarah Henderson, Miles Simon, Gilanni Gardner, Kristin Johnson,
Speaker 1: a bunch of dudes. Um. So I remember like they
Speaker 1: weren't they didn't offer me. And the summer before when
Speaker 1: I was rising junior, the first day of summer is
Speaker 1: when they came out with like initial offers back then.
Speaker 1: So they offered Toby Bailey first day of summer. He
Speaker 1: took the scholarship. And the way it worked then was
Speaker 1: we had there was there was like three different big
Speaker 1: AU programs. A r C Mid Valley that was like
Speaker 1: Cameron Murray played on that team that was like mostly
Speaker 1: kids from the valley and surrounding areas. There was Slamming
Speaker 1: Jam Victoria Park that was Ricky Price and Toby Bailey
Speaker 1: and later Tremaine Folks who went to Cal then President State.
Speaker 1: And then there's our team which was you know team
Speaker 1: Orange County, and we had Jared Harrison from Bakersfield. We
Speaker 1: had Adam Walton that's that's uh Bill's oldest son. And
Speaker 1: then we had a bunch of Orange County kids as well.
Speaker 1: It's a couple of l A kids that were like
Speaker 1: under the radar, and so there was kind of a
Speaker 1: rivalry there, right, So like like we didn't like, we
Speaker 1: didn't like Toby then, you know, as it was, it
Speaker 1: was weird, like you know, in every tournament, in the
Speaker 1: semifinals and finals of every tournament, it's the same guys
Speaker 1: you're playing against. And this is since like sixth grade,
Speaker 1: like No, I didn't fucking like Toby Bailey. I didn't like,
Speaker 1: you know, the the Obannon boys who were there, like
Speaker 1: we those are We wanted to beat them, like now
Speaker 1: we're supposed to play in the same team, like so weird.
Speaker 1: So Miles got pissed and and then you know, he
Speaker 1: ends up going to Arizona and so and I kind
Speaker 1: of wanted, like, you know, like basketball U c l
Speaker 1: A Basketball on TV is big, but there was times,
Speaker 1: you know, it's locally just got swallowed up by the
Speaker 1: Lakers and other off and I don't know, the facilities
Speaker 1: weren't great back then, and so I kind of was
Speaker 1: I had a want. I always want to play a
Speaker 1: duke um. So I went to a game during my
Speaker 1: junior year against cal As u c l A. Cow
Speaker 1: and all these other guys that were seniors that had
Speaker 1: committed to going there. We're there. So j R. Henderson
Speaker 1: is my teammate, and Kristin Johnson's my teammate. Like we
Speaker 1: go to the game together. We meet up at the
Speaker 1: game and my seats are so fucking high that the
Speaker 1: concession man won't go up there, Like, you know, I
Speaker 1: want to be a big baller and go to the player,
Speaker 1: you know, get the player tickets, even though we had
Speaker 1: season tickets. And I like told my dad, like, don't
Speaker 1: worry about it. I got there. The teams leaving me tickets,
Speaker 1: so they like so they like scramble and they get
Speaker 1: me seats next to the rest of the guys. I
Speaker 1: was like, what the funk, I'm way up. This is bullshit.
Speaker 1: So now I'm sitting with these guys and then they
Speaker 1: send some manager out at halftime to listen to Herrick's
Speaker 1: halftime speech and they don't get me. And I mean
Speaker 1: it was like the and my sisters like performing at
Speaker 1: the half or whatever, and uh. I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I guess I know where I stand there, you know.
Speaker 1: So then pass forward to summer of my That next summer,
Speaker 1: some of my senior I'm at that I'm at the
Speaker 1: Las Vegas Hilton and Jim Harrick calls me. He's like, Dougie,
Speaker 1: you know you always wanted to be a Ruin and
Speaker 1: I was like, and I was kind of a dick.
Speaker 1: Then I said not then, let against now, and I
Speaker 1: was like, well, coach and all honestly, I always wanted
Speaker 1: to play a duke, but they took Wojo last year
Speaker 1: they took Wojo so and Wojo is a year ahead
Speaker 1: of me, and so he said, well, we're offering you
Speaker 1: a scholarship to u c l are like, you won't
Speaker 1: play ball for us, And it was kind of same
Speaker 1: sort of question, you know, and I'm sure he thought
Speaker 1: this is a layup kid grew up dreaming of playing
Speaker 1: at u c l A. And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to take a visit. I want
Speaker 1: to think about it. I want to see what else is,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I love how you guys play.
Speaker 1: And they had taken a commitment from a game name
Speaker 1: illusing me man who was like six four or six
Speaker 1: five your class, like best player in America type kid.
Speaker 1: And he was like, you know, he'll never qualify. He's
Speaker 1: not a really u c l A guy, but he's
Speaker 1: so talented. We gotta take and we take five. We
Speaker 1: played five guys, five best players U c l A
Speaker 1: high post offense, not the only offense, just the best.
Speaker 1: So there was so I was so bitter over not
Speaker 1: being recruited whatever, And you know, they wrote me Mark
Speaker 1: Godford did a great job and Lorenzo Romar did a
Speaker 1: great job, and they called me I'll never forget. So
Speaker 1: I take an unofficial up there, and it was still
Speaker 1: kind of weird because again, like Toby was a freshman there,
Speaker 1: and um, uh yeah, I'd like I barely knew tayased
Speaker 1: and he was a senior on that team. Ed was there,
Speaker 1: was a senior, Charles was there, and I just I
Speaker 1: don't know. I just I didn't get a great vibe.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, so I call coach Herrick
Speaker 1: and tell him I'm going to Notre Dame and Godfrey
Speaker 1: calls me. He goes, I'm gonna promise you something. Now
Speaker 1: we play. We play all like December twenty two of
Speaker 1: not Only were gonna come in and whoop your ass.
Speaker 1: He's like, but it's gonna be so fucking cold that
Speaker 1: you're gonna beg us to come back. And I was like,
Speaker 1: he goes, he goes, but you know, we love you,
Speaker 1: and my sister had been his babysit or whatever, so
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I mean and then my when I when
Speaker 1: I left Notre Dame, um, they recruited me, but they're like, look,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take Baron if we can get Barren, and
Speaker 1: if we don't get Barren, right, So so I'm not
Speaker 1: bitter over that one, because I mean, if you take
Speaker 1: me ahead of Baron Davis, you're the worst evaluator of town,
Speaker 1: you know, all of sports. But I mean, honestly, the
Speaker 1: first time around, it was my choice. And they took
Speaker 1: a dude named Brandon Lloyd, who was who should have
Speaker 1: gone to Oaklhom State from Oklahoma. They didn't get staff.
Speaker 1: They thought they were gonna get staff, and if I
Speaker 1: was probably their fallback, like, well we'll get Gottlieb and
Speaker 1: I went to Notre Dame, and so they took Brandon Lloyd,
Speaker 1: who never really panned out at u c l A. Anyway,
Speaker 1: that's my U c l A story, all right, So
Speaker 1: let's get to let's get to eu UM. I looked
Speaker 1: it up, and you guys started out thirteen and one, right,
Speaker 1: like your only loss was to Kentucky. You guys beat
Speaker 1: Notre Dame, you guys beat Duke Um, you guys beat Princeton.
Speaker 1: Was good. Back then. You talked about the Yukon game.
Speaker 1: You'd beat Yukon, like you guys were rolling. What was
Speaker 1: it like, You're like a freshman that you had to
Speaker 1: be like this is easy, this is cake. When you
Speaker 1: get that it's like when you get all that hype
Speaker 1: as a young player, like then you know you've you've
Speaker 1: got to be able to stay stay in the moment
Speaker 1: and try to get better and better. But um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like like any major program when you're when you're
Speaker 1: winning at a high level at a place like Indiana,
Speaker 1: and when you're winning at a high level, uh you know,
Speaker 1: the place like U C. L A. Or Caroline or
Speaker 1: Duke or Kentucky Like, um, it's everything that you imagine.
Speaker 1: You know, it can be like you're you're walking on water. Um,
Speaker 1: everywhere you're going. You walk in a restaurant, you know,
Speaker 1: people are standing up and clapping and wishing you well
Speaker 1: and and all those sorts of things, and um, you
Speaker 1: know it's it's that's what I think is so cool
Speaker 1: about the college basketball experience. Like, um, you know, I
Speaker 1: I tell kids in recruiting all the time, like I
Speaker 1: absolutely loved my experience at Indiana. Now every day it
Speaker 1: wasn't teddy bears and rainbows, you know, but it's it's
Speaker 1: not it doesn't matter where you go, it's not going
Speaker 1: to be um, but my experience prepared me for for
Speaker 1: what I'm doing now. And I want the guys that
Speaker 1: that I get the opportunity to coach and be around.
Speaker 1: I want them to feel about their experience the way
Speaker 1: that I feel about mine. I think if they do that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, then then my job as a coach has
Speaker 1: been successful. And I love my my time at Indiana
Speaker 1: part of you know, Indiana basketball is a major part
Speaker 1: of who I am, down to my core, um, and
Speaker 1: I loved it. I would do it again in the
Speaker 1: art beating. And that's that's I understand the way that
Speaker 1: I feel doug about about my time And that's what
Speaker 1: you know, That's what I want these guys here at
Speaker 1: u c l A to feel about U c l
Speaker 1: A and their experience here when when their time here
Speaker 1: is done. That sold. I want the guys that I
Speaker 1: coached at Butler to feel about Butler you know now
Speaker 1: that that that they're away and there's nothing cooler about,
Speaker 1: you know, being a coach. And then you know, getting
Speaker 1: phone calls, um from former players asking for help for jobs,
Speaker 1: called from former players invite you to their weddings, or
Speaker 1: calling you you know and talk to that hey coach
Speaker 1: on you know, my wife's due to have a baby
Speaker 1: boy here in three months you know those are those
Speaker 1: are the really cool experience and that's that's the experience
Speaker 1: that I had where I played, and that's what I
Speaker 1: want for these guys that I come in contact with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's um, it's it's really and we I'll tell
Speaker 1: you the thing about social media, and you don't have
Speaker 1: to agree with you you can you feel free to
Speaker 1: discuss it. But I do think that we whether it's
Speaker 1: expectations and I got to be cautious of this with
Speaker 1: my own kid, you know, expectations or uh, you know,
Speaker 1: coaches are always the bad guys and see he is
Speaker 1: always the bad guess whatever it is, like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I still think it's a very high percentage, but I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's nearly as higher percentage of people
Speaker 1: that get it. Like, look, everybody takes the floor. It's
Speaker 1: like real dudes like me, like real thoughtful, reasonable people.
Speaker 1: You take a basketball floor, and you can pick out
Speaker 1: which guys could really play in the NBA Like you
Speaker 1: and I probably thought, like, you know what if we
Speaker 1: got the right situation where somebody needs our skill set,
Speaker 1: somebody enjoys our leadership, you know, you put me in
Speaker 1: the right spot, like Yeah, why couldn't I be the
Speaker 1: third point guard in the NBA. It's like no doubt,
Speaker 1: Like I know what I could do, but you just
Speaker 1: you gotta be You gotta get one team, one guy
Speaker 1: at one team that believes in you, that gives you
Speaker 1: the right opportunity, the right amount of minutes in the
Speaker 1: summer league, signs you to a guarantee. You hang on
Speaker 1: for a year, and then you kind of become an
Speaker 1: NBA player. But but you know, most most of us
Speaker 1: look around and like you can tell who's the fucking
Speaker 1: pro and who's not. Right, Um, there's this sense where
Speaker 1: if you're not gonna make it as an NBA player
Speaker 1: at your current school, goes somewhere else, And so there's
Speaker 1: not I think as higher percentage of people that truly
Speaker 1: understand and in enjoy the experience. During the experience, am
Speaker 1: I am I making sense? Like like that's what you created, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're not playing well, fucking go the coach is never
Speaker 1: gonna play you. They can recruit over. You leave, go
Speaker 1: to another school. And part of the part of the
Speaker 1: amazing part about college basketball, this guy comes in and
Speaker 1: you and I got to start as freshman. So this
Speaker 1: is different but a lot of guys that come in
Speaker 1: and they don't get the role they want and they leave,
Speaker 1: Whereas it's way better if you earn the role you
Speaker 1: want at the place you originally enrolled in. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: It's no, you're you're you're dead on. Like I'd tell
Speaker 1: people all the time, like like college, like and and
Speaker 1: you've got to have good adults around the young person.
Speaker 1: But when you're talking to a recruit, like they're so
Speaker 1: self absorbed in what they're doing, Um, they all want
Speaker 1: to go the n B A and and a lot
Speaker 1: of them, you know, when you're at a place like
Speaker 1: U c A, a lot of them you know that
Speaker 1: may be in their future. Um. But but you also
Speaker 1: got to look at college. It's it's it's not a
Speaker 1: three or four year decision. This when when you're choosing
Speaker 1: the university, it's a thirty or forty year decision in it.
Speaker 1: And it I believe that if whether you're at U
Speaker 1: c l A for one or two years and you're
Speaker 1: able to go to the NBA, or if you're here
Speaker 1: for four years, because you're always going to fall back
Speaker 1: on that time period in your life and you're going
Speaker 1: to go back to those people to help you with
Speaker 1: whatever's next after basketball is over. So that's why I
Speaker 1: say it's a third y or forty year decision. And
Speaker 1: I think that's why, Um, I'm so lucky to be
Speaker 1: at a place like u c. L A. Because not
Speaker 1: only does it have the basketball tradition and and all
Speaker 1: the great players and the coaches and and everything that
Speaker 1: comes with it, but are you also sitting on this
Speaker 1: campus with all the unbelievable people that are associated with
Speaker 1: this university and all the alumni are so I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's those guys, those guys, and those guys are
Speaker 1: super tight, like even the ones you know, the Harrick guys,
Speaker 1: the ones that played for laugh Like, they still get together.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, you got Bob Myer's the GM of
Speaker 1: the freaking Warriors, right, there's a connection. You've got people
Speaker 1: in you know, Hollywood types. It's it's really interesting how
Speaker 1: but we have such a narrow site of what college
Speaker 1: well represents. Like if you go to social media, you
Speaker 1: ask people who cover the game. In my position, college
Speaker 1: basketball is only there is a way station for the pros.
Speaker 1: Like that's not it, dude, You get it's the people
Speaker 1: you're around are gonna be the powers in business. Wherever
Speaker 1: you go to, schools have a bigger reach like you
Speaker 1: go to Indiana. Like when you got done playing Indiana,
Speaker 1: if you didn't want to become a basketball coach, you
Speaker 1: could have gone into sales anywhere you wanted in the
Speaker 1: state because you were point guarded. I you M all right,
Speaker 1: so and that that's that's what it gets overlooked, and
Speaker 1: that's that's what we gotta That's what we gotta get
Speaker 1: back to. That's why I'm excited to be at at
Speaker 1: a place like this because everything it has to offer,
Speaker 1: not just from a basketball standpoint, but just like anything
Speaker 1: you want to accomplish, you can get done here because
Speaker 1: the people that haven't been here or are currently here,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think that's a special opportunity. Um, Okay,
Speaker 1: tell me about Ben Howett never talked to me when
Speaker 1: I was a player. I mean, I wouldn't go to
Speaker 1: nothing it recruited like she never talked to me as
Speaker 1: a player. Okay. I've competed against his teams twice when
Speaker 1: I was at Nebraska, Okay, and got nothing more than
Speaker 1: the handshake. On the handshake client, I'm at the NBA
Speaker 1: Top D Camp two weeks ago, and I got U
Speaker 1: c l l U c l A on my chest
Speaker 1: and we chatted it up for five minutes with his
Speaker 1: staff and my staff. You know, just because I got
Speaker 1: U c l A on my chest, I mean I've
Speaker 1: been around the guy, competed against the guy, and I
Speaker 1: was just a dude, right, But now I got U
Speaker 1: c U c l A on my chest, and now
Speaker 1: you know, it's like what you said, the connection to
Speaker 1: the part of the family these guys are tightened, and
Speaker 1: it was really cool to be able to talk with
Speaker 1: him for a few moments a couple of weeks ago. Um, okay,
Speaker 1: so take me to the You are famous for a
Speaker 1: lot of things. You're probably most famous for the guy
Speaker 1: who stared down coach night, right. It was? It was
Speaker 1: what year was It was Super Tuesday and you're playing
Speaker 1: Michigan and you I've remember, I've seen the play multiple
Speaker 1: times where somebody from Michigan drives to the basket and
Speaker 1: you're you should be to help man to take the charge.
Speaker 1: Instead you're like fronting in the low post and a
Speaker 1: guy drives right up your butt and lays the ball in. Okay,
Speaker 1: So was that was that one of the was that
Speaker 1: one of the five boys. Was that like Dane five
Speaker 1: who drove up your like I'm trying to trying to
Speaker 1: think years, No, it was all. His first name was
Speaker 1: Robbie I forget his last night. Robbie Reid. Yeah, Robbie Read.
Speaker 1: I believe Robbie Read. His dad was the coach at
Speaker 1: b y U. So Robbie Reid drives up and you're
Speaker 1: and you don't see the ball, and and coach Knight
Speaker 1: lays into you. Give me, what what year is this?
Speaker 1: What year are you in school? I'm a sophomore. I'm
Speaker 1: a sophomore. Um, we're like you said, we're playing Michigan,
Speaker 1: and you know I was, I was out of position
Speaker 1: by our defensive rules. But you know we had you know,
Speaker 1: we had walked through the day before and I mean
Speaker 1: Liston was really good. I mean they had you know, Robbie,
Speaker 1: they had Michiel Baston tractor trailer, UM Maurice Taylor, UM
Speaker 1: Louis Bulllock. I mean they were good now and was expensive,
Speaker 1: expensive team right there. They I believe I believe they
Speaker 1: were over the over the cap for that was not
Speaker 1: a cap friendly team. That's that's really what happened. They
Speaker 1: weren't put on n C approbation. They were over the cap.
Speaker 1: So that's that's right, Gerard Ward. Hold on, I'll tell
Speaker 1: you real quick. Gerard Ward was on that team. This
Speaker 1: is the famous grod Ward story. Okay, Groard Ward visits
Speaker 1: u c l A. He's like the number one wing
Speaker 1: in the country and uh he visits u c l A, and, um,
Speaker 1: the Obandon guy boys are like the nicest dude, classiest
Speaker 1: dudes ever. So Charles O'Bannon um chose him around campus.
Speaker 1: And this is back when u c l A, which
Speaker 1: just was picking dudes right, and so Gerard Ward uh
Speaker 1: would would tell people that he's I'm going to be
Speaker 1: better than Michael Jordan like and he believed it coming
Speaker 1: out dead unbelieved it. So um so drod word. He
Speaker 1: gets done with his visit u c l A and
Speaker 1: he's like, tells Charles e Van. You could ask Charles
Speaker 1: when he comes to ones events, Hey man, uh man,
Speaker 1: thanks for being so nice to me. I don't know
Speaker 1: why you were. I'm gonna come and take your job
Speaker 1: so whatever. Like that was like his last words to
Speaker 1: the u c l A players, like, thanks for being
Speaker 1: nice to me, but I was gonna come take your job.
Speaker 1: And that team was that was. That was after they
Speaker 1: fired the staff, right because they got caught cheating, but
Speaker 1: it was they still mean lou Bullock, Robert Trailer, growd Ward,
Speaker 1: Maceo Baston, Robbie Reid, uh, Brandon Smith, the transferred played
Speaker 1: for my brother. Um. That was that was. That was
Speaker 1: an expensive team. Okay, so Robbie Reid drives up your backside.
Speaker 1: You're not in health. Oh I'm not in health. But
Speaker 1: we and walked through they you know, they're running America's player,
Speaker 1: you know, the cross screen down down. Yeah, so they're
Speaker 1: you know, Louis Bullocks and a cross screen on the
Speaker 1: baseline for tractor trailer and then he's getting a dawn
Speaker 1: screen um from Maurice, you know. And so you know
Speaker 1: when walks through, I just kind of bumped the cutter
Speaker 1: and and Chase whoever was mimicking Louis Bulock up the middle,
Speaker 1: you know, to make sure I'm there when he catches
Speaker 1: for the three, and uh, you know, Coach explains to
Speaker 1: me that tractor trailers like two seventy pounds and he's
Speaker 1: gonna knock me across, you know, into the bleachers if
Speaker 1: I don't you know, really chuck even, you know, and
Speaker 1: then just chase, like hell up to the top. Make
Speaker 1: sure you're there on the catch, you know, for Louis.
Speaker 1: And so the play comes. I'm sniffing it out. So
Speaker 1: I turned my back and I mean, back then you
Speaker 1: could you could really physically bumped Cutters Like now you
Speaker 1: can't really do it. And so I to two forms
Speaker 1: in the tractor's chest. I'm trying to bump him, and
Speaker 1: then I'm just gonna take off run as well. Robbie
Speaker 1: beats Uh, I forget you. I don't even know who
Speaker 1: was garden. Robbie just beats him, and he's laying it
Speaker 1: up right over right over my shoulder. And so Coach
Speaker 1: gets up and informs me that I was in the
Speaker 1: wrong defensive position. And um, I said, excuse me. We
Speaker 1: see we see the street, we see it on TV. Noble,
Speaker 1: what was what do you really say? Uh, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I think We've probably exchanged a few pleasant tries and
Speaker 1: and we moved on. You know the thing about the
Speaker 1: whole of Mint dougas like that happened. It was captured
Speaker 1: on TV because it was Coach. It it became a
Speaker 1: huge story. Um, we go down the other end, there
Speaker 1: was a a whistle, So we come out to a
Speaker 1: TV time out and that's you know, when what what
Speaker 1: you're talking about happens. Um, And I said out. He
Speaker 1: takes me out for about a minute and a half. UM.
Speaker 1: He talked to me very calmly on the bench, and
Speaker 1: then I went on and played, and then I never
Speaker 1: really talked about it again. Uh. And And honestly, from
Speaker 1: that point on, I think, um, at least from my
Speaker 1: my standpoint, our player coach relationship grew immensely um for
Speaker 1: over the next two and a half years, UM, because
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it was that or if
Speaker 1: he just felt, like, you know, he had somebody that
Speaker 1: he could he could trust and believe to help try
Speaker 1: to lead the team the way that he wanted it done.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, but from that point on, our
Speaker 1: relationship was wasn't unbelievable over the next two and a
Speaker 1: half years in my my career. But UM, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a thing that happens unfortunately
Speaker 1: in a in the heat of a moment with with
Speaker 1: some competitive guys. We've all we've all seen it. It
Speaker 1: would have been better if it would have been at
Speaker 1: half time and behind closed doors. Yeah, but it it
Speaker 1: happened when it happened, and him and I never talked
Speaker 1: about it again. You were his last point card, right
Speaker 1: because because we were getting ready to play you guys,
Speaker 1: We were getting ready to play you guys, get by Pepperdine. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you're bringing up all the great memories. No, I'm I'm well,
Speaker 1: I mean okay, so so I'll we'll get it. Then
Speaker 1: we'll do that best memory of playing it. I you,
Speaker 1: I just I mean, I I don't know. I can't
Speaker 1: name one. I think, just like I said, the way
Speaker 1: that I feel about my like sitting here today in
Speaker 1: my office at U c l A looking back and
Speaker 1: the feeling that I have when I think about my
Speaker 1: experience in those four years, that's the best memory, um,
Speaker 1: And and what the position that it put me in
Speaker 1: to be sitting here today. Um, The people that I
Speaker 1: interacted with, the people that I was able to meet
Speaker 1: and make connections with, and just like the overall foundation
Speaker 1: to do what I'm doing now is is the number
Speaker 1: one memory? Um? You were at the Neil Read practice though, right?
Speaker 1: That was was that your freshman year? That's my freshman year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you do. You don't like at the time that
Speaker 1: it happened, do you remember it being as big because
Speaker 1: the video didn't come out til years later? Right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: when the time that happened, Like, I don't remember it, um,
Speaker 1: you know, being you know, something just crazy, like oh
Speaker 1: my god, you know, like um and the tape you know,
Speaker 1: came out going into mun state tournament my senior year,
Speaker 1: so almost three and a half years later. Um, you
Speaker 1: know that, like I touched on earlier, when you're play,
Speaker 1: you're you're sol you're so self absorbed, um about how
Speaker 1: you're playing, Um, whether or not coaches on you or um,
Speaker 1: you know, how things are going, you know on campus,
Speaker 1: or how your girlfriend's doing or you know, you're you're
Speaker 1: just so worried about you that you know, if it
Speaker 1: didn't directly involve you, sometimes you just don't. You don't
Speaker 1: pay me that much attention to it. And unfortunately, when
Speaker 1: you're when you're in those things and you're you're practicing
Speaker 1: a hundred times a year and you go through the
Speaker 1: course of your career and you've got four D plus
Speaker 1: practices plus all your weight sessions and your workout. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, if it didn't really directly involve you. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure much how much of an inprint it it
Speaker 1: made on you. One thing that that coach Night taught
Speaker 1: you that you still use to this death. Do your job.
Speaker 1: Just do your job, like, don't worry about anything else. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, do your job. And that was one of
Speaker 1: the things that he left me with when I was
Speaker 1: a senior, when you called me in about three quarters
Speaker 1: away through my senior year and I told him I
Speaker 1: wanted to coach, you know one day, and uh, he said,
Speaker 1: just do your job. He said, don't worry about um.
Speaker 1: Don't don't go into any opportunity and think it's beneath you. Uh.
Speaker 1: If your first job is to sweep the floor and
Speaker 1: then be the best, you know, floor sweeper in the country,
Speaker 1: and it's gonna lead to your next opportunity, and so
Speaker 1: on and so forth. And he's never been more more
Speaker 1: righting on anything he's ever said. Like I've tried to
Speaker 1: get jobs, Like I've reached out to people and tried
Speaker 1: to get jobs throughout my career and I've never gotten
Speaker 1: any of them. Every job I've I've ever gotten, um,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of kind of they came to me
Speaker 1: or you know, through some kind of mutual person that
Speaker 1: you know, brought my name up. But I've never gotten
Speaker 1: a job that I went after. The jobs that i've
Speaker 1: I've always gotten its kind of come fum my way.
Speaker 1: And and uh, I think that has happened because of
Speaker 1: the just doing my job, whatever it is. Just try
Speaker 1: to do your job and the best of your ability,
Speaker 1: and if you do it well enough, and then your
Speaker 1: next opportunity is gonna come your way. You get them
Speaker 1: playing And we played against each other in the usb L.
Speaker 1: Rick Barry was your coach. What was he like? Obviously
Speaker 1: he's one of the greatest players to ever played the game. Um,
Speaker 1: you know he was, I think, Um, you know, Rick
Speaker 1: Rick was an interesting character because, like I was, I
Speaker 1: was all fired up to play for Rick. Obviously it's
Speaker 1: one of the great coaches and um, you know, but
Speaker 1: when you're dealing with with guys in the U s
Speaker 1: BL like, sometimes things don't come as easily to us
Speaker 1: as it did, you know, to him, And and I
Speaker 1: think he would get frustrated with that at times. But um,
Speaker 1: it was a great experience. I mean, obviously, you know
Speaker 1: it was different than anything I was used do you
Speaker 1: I was going from Indiana. We were flying on private
Speaker 1: planes and staying in in great hotels and now you're
Speaker 1: on the six am flight, um back in the economy
Speaker 1: and you're staying at a motel six or something and UM,
Speaker 1: you know, so it's just an overall different experience for
Speaker 1: me and UM, but it was. It's just part of
Speaker 1: your story, you know that you you you stacked those
Speaker 1: experiences and those stories on top of each other, and
Speaker 1: I kind of make sure who you who you are,
Speaker 1: and UM, it was a fun time. I'd never Um.
Speaker 1: It was the first time I ever came off a
Speaker 1: ball screen. Like, we didn't run ball streams in Indiana.
Speaker 1: We ran up motion offense coach with hated ball screens,
Speaker 1: and um, so it was different for me, you know,
Speaker 1: being a point guard and trying to learn how to
Speaker 1: play off a ball screens and make all the region
Speaker 1: and U you know, I do know. There was first
Speaker 1: places to wake up in four Mier, Florida at that time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was nice. It was nice down there. We actually
Speaker 1: stayed there was some Oklahoma STI this is one of
Speaker 1: those things that like guys should know. So we're playing
Speaker 1: for the Oaklhomas, Oklahoma Storm and Enid, Oklahoma, and we
Speaker 1: had like five Oklahoma stake guys. And our announcer was
Speaker 1: getting Robert down, who's like has a radio show in
Speaker 1: Stillwater and he hooks us up there some Oklahoma state
Speaker 1: alone has got a condo in Santa on Santa bell Island,
Speaker 1: And so we came down. We played the team in
Speaker 1: Sara Sota uh Roy Jones team, then we played you guys.
Speaker 1: Then we played you guys on back to back nights,
Speaker 1: and then we played Broy Jones team, and then we left.
Speaker 1: It was like four games. We might have had one
Speaker 1: day off. Anyway, we stayed in Santa Belle Island. We
Speaker 1: were like, this is unbelievable. This is so great. Um,
Speaker 1: who is the who is the best Who's the best
Speaker 1: player on your team that year? By the way, I'm
Speaker 1: looking at you your playing cards, a buil, Do you
Speaker 1: have any of your playing cards? I have one of
Speaker 1: your playing cards here. I'm not sure I even I
Speaker 1: didn't know I had one. I didn't know I had one.
Speaker 1: You know, the best the best experience about the Florida
Speaker 1: Sea Dragons was um, you know, talking about connections of
Speaker 1: where you where you were. Um, there was a a
Speaker 1: guy named Hute Tindler who just passed away this past year.
Speaker 1: Um was a longtime coach down in that area at
Speaker 1: at a smaller college. Uh. And he had a beach
Speaker 1: house and he had like he had like three bedrooms
Speaker 1: up top, and he had converted like the basement lower
Speaker 1: level floor in the two one bedroom apartments. And we
Speaker 1: were staying at like a courtyard. You know. The whole
Speaker 1: team was just you know, you're in a courtyard. You
Speaker 1: got a roommate, you know. And uh, he he offered
Speaker 1: me to come stay out at his his beach house
Speaker 1: in one of the apartments UM down below where he stayed.
Speaker 1: Um and gave me an old beat up red truck
Speaker 1: that he had that he wasn't used. So instead of
Speaker 1: having to drive in the in the minivans from the
Speaker 1: courtyard to do everything with everybody else, I actually got
Speaker 1: my own place out out of four Myers Beach and
Speaker 1: it was it was a great, great experience. But I
Speaker 1: couldn't I couldn't tell you who I didn't know. I
Speaker 1: had a player's card, Doug, I'm not sure who our
Speaker 1: best player was. You don't remember any team like, dude,
Speaker 1: We I had it. We had a squad we had
Speaker 1: I renewable. He played in the NBA, had a squad,
Speaker 1: a bunch of guys you knew, Like I went down
Speaker 1: and played with a bunch of guys that that I
Speaker 1: didn't know. Um and I mean I we got robbed
Speaker 1: one night down there. So I've tried to block out
Speaker 1: a lot of those memories from out there. Well you
Speaker 1: got robs. Oh we we went to uh we went
Speaker 1: to a nightclub and we were flying out the next
Speaker 1: morning for some some trip over some road trip. And um,
Speaker 1: I think we had just gotten our page X and
Speaker 1: and uh so we went to a there was a
Speaker 1: concert at this nightclub, and we all went to this
Speaker 1: nightclub and we left. We left early, a little bit
Speaker 1: before the concert was over. And uh yeah, we got
Speaker 1: we got jumped in the parking lot and uh there
Speaker 1: we two shots were fired through the front windshield of
Speaker 1: a of an Astral mini van and we had to
Speaker 1: turn that in the next morning as we're going to
Speaker 1: hit the airport. So there's nothing like turning in a
Speaker 1: mini vandom to rick Berry with two bullet holes through
Speaker 1: the front windshield. Let even know that everybody's okay. So
Speaker 1: it was a great experience. I have no I had
Speaker 1: no idea like we had. I mean, we had Willie Burton,
Speaker 1: we had whose ninth pick of the draft. I mentioned
Speaker 1: I renewable um. We had. We had a good and
Speaker 1: then we had the Oaklahoma state guys as well. We
Speaker 1: had my dad told me, and I think I might
Speaker 1: have said this in the pod. My dad told me.
Speaker 1: I remember we were doing training camp and we had
Speaker 1: Bubble Wells and lead the country and scoring use the
Speaker 1: second round pick of the Mavericks. I remember my dad
Speaker 1: said like, hey, there's always a reason. And I go,
Speaker 1: He's like, there's always a reason these guys are in
Speaker 1: the NBA. And he's like, he's like, you know, like
Speaker 1: with you, it's like you mentally you're shooting. It's like
Speaker 1: but sometimes if somebody eats their way out of the NBA,
Speaker 1: some people, you know, it's it's women, it's drugs, it's
Speaker 1: you know, they're gambling. It's like something. And I swear
Speaker 1: to god, we had every we had a guy that checked.
Speaker 1: We had somebody checked one of those boxes. I'll throughout
Speaker 1: we're like, we're like, damn, why is that guy not
Speaker 1: playing still playing playing in the NBA? And then you
Speaker 1: hang around him for a week and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: oh he's on drugs, no doubt, of course. Uh okay,
Speaker 1: so then you play then you played over what did
Speaker 1: you play overseas? I went to UM, I went over
Speaker 1: to Belgium. Um, and I was in uh what was
Speaker 1: it to Liam Belgium? Some that was I was there.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think. I've been a few places. I
Speaker 1: guess I got a lot of things going on right
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get a house in my family. We've
Speaker 1: got some things going on out here right now. Done.
Speaker 1: But um in the age, I was in the Age Belgium,
Speaker 1: and we went out there and had a you know,
Speaker 1: I had a contract. I felt like it was decent,
Speaker 1: and we we played one game. Go through training camp,
Speaker 1: we play game. I got eighteen, um, and you always
Speaker 1: compare yourself to the American on the other team, right,
Speaker 1: So the American I guarded on the other team, he
Speaker 1: had thirteen. They beat us on the last second shot.
Speaker 1: I get called in the next morning and I'm sitting
Speaker 1: around this this conference table and in this office, and um,
Speaker 1: the coaches in there. Uh, the president that I had
Speaker 1: been introduced to was in there, and then some other
Speaker 1: guy who I don't know who he was, UM there
Speaker 1: and there and they're speaking French and then they were
Speaker 1: speaking English to me, and then they speak French and
Speaker 1: then he wished to me, and I was like, this
Speaker 1: is not gonna go well, like you just tell right,
Speaker 1: And so they informed me that they were releasing me.
Speaker 1: UM that day after one game and they they had
Speaker 1: UM informed me that they had signed another point guard
Speaker 1: and come to find out, it was Michael Huger, who
Speaker 1: is now the head coach at Bowling Green. And Michael
Speaker 1: had been like the he had been like m v
Speaker 1: P or first team All League UM in the in
Speaker 1: that league the year before UH and had had some
Speaker 1: problems with his physical with his team. My team was
Speaker 1: kind of new to the top division. UM, so they
Speaker 1: cut me and signed Michael Huger, and I was I
Speaker 1: was out outro and I just remember I landed UM
Speaker 1: and about two or three days later, UM, all this
Speaker 1: September eleven, stuff happened and I was out out of that.
Speaker 1: You know what, Like, I know what I want to do.
Speaker 1: I'm not a pro. I'm not gonna play in the NBA.
Speaker 1: It would have been a great experience. I know what
Speaker 1: I want to do. UM, And so I reached out
Speaker 1: to coach Nidi was in the source of year in
Speaker 1: Texas Tech, and he said, hey, you come down here
Speaker 1: next year and be a grad assistant, you know, And
Speaker 1: so I think for a year, I went wide, started
Speaker 1: as a text tech as a grad assistant. I was
Speaker 1: a grad assistant two years at Texas Tech, and then I, uh,
Speaker 1: my first Division one job was Stephen F. Austin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: full time assistant Stephen F. Auston, huge, huge money. I
Speaker 1: told my wife, I said, hey, you know, the hardest
Speaker 1: thing in coaching is getting that first opportunity to get
Speaker 1: on the road and recruit. Everybody wants recruiting the experience,
Speaker 1: and as a young guy, you're like, you know, listen,
Speaker 1: like I can develop relationships. I just need an opportunity,
Speaker 1: you know. And and uh, finally I was giving an
Speaker 1: opportunity to get on the road. And I remember going
Speaker 1: back to my wife and telling, hey, you know, I
Speaker 1: got the job full time. Do you want assistant twelve thousand,
Speaker 1: five hundred and a FOURD tours you know, and and
Speaker 1: but but we made it. Then, we've made the big time.
Speaker 1: We're finally in, you know. And and sometimes that's what
Speaker 1: it takes me. He just need an opportunity and and uh,
Speaker 1: I've been very fortunate ever since. Um, when you were
Speaker 1: at Tech, was Beard on the staff then? Yeah, Chris was.
Speaker 1: Chris was an assistant coach. Chris was actually, um, kind
Speaker 1: of the the guy that helped me get um the
Speaker 1: job as Stephen F. Austin. He had worked for Danny
Speaker 1: Casper as an assistant when he first got it got started,
Speaker 1: and Danny had reached out to Chris about um, you know,
Speaker 1: meaning the young guy to fill a spot, you know,
Speaker 1: in August. And and so Chris, uh gave me my
Speaker 1: name and and Danny reached out and where he went
Speaker 1: from there. So you know, Chris is kind of really
Speaker 1: the guy that got that ball rolling for me. Did
Speaker 1: you did you have any idea he would be this
Speaker 1: kind of coach? No? I did. I mean it's it's
Speaker 1: hard to like everybody like, oh yeah, I can see it,
Speaker 1: like you know, I didn't. I mean they I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was at Tech, I thought they
Speaker 1: had a really good staff. Um. You know, a guy
Speaker 1: named Bob Buyer was on the staff, who who's now
Speaker 1: an assistant in the NBA. Pat Knight was on the staff. Uh,
Speaker 1: and then Chris beer, you know, and those were the
Speaker 1: guys that were were coaches assistance during my time there.
Speaker 1: So it was a great learning experience obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: being around coach on the other side, uh, and seeing
Speaker 1: how he attacked each day, how he prepared for practice
Speaker 1: and games, and just kind of how he managed the
Speaker 1: office and went about running a college basketball program. Um
Speaker 1: that you didn't see as a player. To see it
Speaker 1: on the other side on the people to be in
Speaker 1: those meetings was was great. And then obviously to be
Speaker 1: around those three three individuals and and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: be able to pick their brain every day was really good.
Speaker 1: You were were you were at Eastern before you went
Speaker 1: to Butler, right, Yes, I was at Eastern Illinois for
Speaker 1: six years with Mike Miller, who who I think he
Speaker 1: has been the head coach of the New York Knicks
Speaker 1: um G League team for several years. And I believe, uh,
Speaker 1: if I if I heard correctly, um may just got
Speaker 1: moved up to the bench on in the NBA. So
Speaker 1: so congrats him a great a really good basketball coach
Speaker 1: Eastern Nolinois. Just very difficult job. Okay, So how did
Speaker 1: how did it come about that you come about that
Speaker 1: you got the butler. So I actually took a job
Speaker 1: with Porter Moser at Loola. When he got the job
Speaker 1: at Chicago, he was looking for a a young guy
Speaker 1: that could recruit UM in the Midwest and in Indiana
Speaker 1: and and uh, my name was given to him and
Speaker 1: he reached out. I took the job. I was actually
Speaker 1: in Chicago for about two and a half weeks. Uh
Speaker 1: and Porter. I get a phone call from Porter Um
Speaker 1: and I was I was actually back in Charleston to
Speaker 1: see my wife who was getting ready to deliver our
Speaker 1: second daughter. And Porter goes, hey, Brad Stevens just called me,
Speaker 1: Um and wants to talk to you about a job.
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do? And I was like, what
Speaker 1: are you? What are you talking about? And Um, you
Speaker 1: know Brad and typical Brad fashion. He called Porter first
Speaker 1: UM and asked Porter, you know, if you could talk
Speaker 1: to me about a job near the time, he wasn't great. UM,
Speaker 1: and I give I give you know, Porter a ton
Speaker 1: of credit because Brad said, hey, listen, Mike doesn't know
Speaker 1: about this. Um, you don't have to worry about him
Speaker 1: getting upset. You know, this is just you and me.
Speaker 1: Nobody else knows about it. UM And Porter, just taking
Speaker 1: the job and trying to get get that program rolling.
Speaker 1: And I've always been dead at the Porter because he
Speaker 1: gave me the opportunity to talk to Brad about the
Speaker 1: job and and UM, you know you can't. You got
Speaker 1: an opportunity to work for Brad Stevens coming off the
Speaker 1: two final fours A Butler, Um, you know you take it.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like you know when Mick reached out
Speaker 1: to me here, like you don't tell U c l
Speaker 1: A now you know. And and so that's how I
Speaker 1: got to Butler. I was there for five years, two
Speaker 1: of them with Brad Um and then before he went
Speaker 1: to Boston, and then Brandon Miller for a year. The
Speaker 1: last two years were under Chris Holtman. Um, if you could,
Speaker 1: m okay, So I asked you about about Coach Night,
Speaker 1: all right, the same question kind of about Brad, like
Speaker 1: what is it Brad? Brad is just one. I think
Speaker 1: he's very comfortable with who he is. UM. He he
Speaker 1: is uber, uber intelligent. UM. And he's ultimately prepared, overly
Speaker 1: prepared for every situation like you're you're not ever gonna
Speaker 1: catch him, um, not prepared. And I think he's very
Speaker 1: efficient in um, how he works and how he prepares,
Speaker 1: how he runs a practice. UM. And I tell people,
Speaker 1: I've told people this before, and they look at me
Speaker 1: like kind of really really strange. UM, Like what Bob
Speaker 1: Knight and what Brad Stevens want from their players or
Speaker 1: want from their program, the type of people that they want,
Speaker 1: UM their program to stand for, are exactly the same.
Speaker 1: Now how each one of those individuals go about achieving
Speaker 1: that our opposite ends of the spectrum, and both worked
Speaker 1: for each individual. But you know, it's like it's like
Speaker 1: even elite company. Now you look you look at especially sports,
Speaker 1: you look at the Patriots, so you look at you know,
Speaker 1: what the Warriors have done, like like the main components
Speaker 1: of those things are all the same. Now that how
Speaker 1: they go about getting them. Sometimes they do it their
Speaker 1: own personal way, which you have to do. You gotta
Speaker 1: be who you are, UM. But those guys were very
Speaker 1: similar in what they wanted. They just go about it
Speaker 1: in different ways. And they they both have achieved a
Speaker 1: ton of success. Your second year there, you guys got
Speaker 1: to I'm gonna say the sweet sixteen? Is that right? Right?
Speaker 1: Or did you lose? I guess you lost in the
Speaker 1: second game. You beat Bucknell and then you you lost
Speaker 1: to Marquette. But but this is and but now you've
Speaker 1: gotten a chance to be a part like the first
Speaker 1: year was, I mean, you've lost They lost Gordon Hayward
Speaker 1: the year before and then they lost Shelvin Mack. Like
Speaker 1: you lose two of the kind of like all time
Speaker 1: great Butler players. And so you do, and and the
Speaker 1: competition got stiffer and you you didn't make the n
Speaker 1: S a Terman. Second year you do, so you get
Speaker 1: to see kind of brad at you know, at a
Speaker 1: championship kind of caliber level in game. What is he like?
Speaker 1: He's really good, like I said, he's prepared for every situation. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, we we beat buck Now
Speaker 1: pretty pretty handily in the first round. Um, and then
Speaker 1: we got against Marquette and they were really good and um,
Speaker 1: you know, we we helped out a boat a ballside
Speaker 1: corner off a shooter, um and gave up a three
Speaker 1: for them to take the lead. And then we had
Speaker 1: an opportunity at the end and we didn't get a
Speaker 1: great shot. UM you know, was was okay. So so
Speaker 1: so we don't be asking so for people who don't
Speaker 1: know you were Brad's offensive coordinator. Correct, No, not that. No,
Speaker 1: I didn't do that stuff for Brad. Brad did his stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh that wasn't that was still help put you hole,
Speaker 1: put you in that position. Yeah, okay. So so, uh
Speaker 1: they they hit it three. Did you guys call it
Speaker 1: time out? Did you guys just come into something? Well,
Speaker 1: we got we got down the other end of the floor. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how we got got but we had
Speaker 1: a side out of bounds with a short clock on
Speaker 1: the side out of bounds, and that we had a
Speaker 1: time out. We used the time out. Um. I don't
Speaker 1: know if we used it or Buzz used it. Um,
Speaker 1: but there was a time out, and uh the buzz
Speaker 1: came out in the one three one on the side
Speaker 1: out of bounds. Um. And it was really really good,
Speaker 1: really good, and um, you know it gave us some problems.
Speaker 1: We got the ball to Andrew Smith at the top.
Speaker 1: He got a shot off, not a great look and
Speaker 1: and and didn't make it. But um, it was it
Speaker 1: was a really really good college basketball game. Um. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know we had we had Rottney Clark on that team,
Speaker 1: you know, Kelly Dunham on that team. Um, so we
Speaker 1: we could score some points. Uh, Andrew Smith, you know,
Speaker 1: Roosevelt Jones was was younger, Kim Woods was younger, So
Speaker 1: we had some guys that can compete. It is it's
Speaker 1: just a really good, uh college basketball game. I think
Speaker 1: we were the sixth seed and I think Marquette was
Speaker 1: maybe the three um playing down there in Mexington, so
Speaker 1: it was a obviously a better loss. And then you
Speaker 1: know that was We're in the eight ten that year.
Speaker 1: So my time, my five years of Butler, we're in
Speaker 1: three different leagues. We're in the Horizon League than the
Speaker 1: eight tun and then ultimately made the move to the
Speaker 1: Big East. Yeah, and I don't think people understand how
Speaker 1: hard that is to you know, you go from the Horizon,
Speaker 1: which is like low major, right most of the league's
Speaker 1: like low major, to the A ten, which is a
Speaker 1: good high major league, you know, especially then, and then
Speaker 1: to the Big East, and you know, it's it's a
Speaker 1: massive step up in competition because you have teams, you know,
Speaker 1: Villanova kind of coming down from us from a high
Speaker 1: major A ten was more mid major, and then the
Speaker 1: Big East end was like a mix of like the
Speaker 1: mid you know, high mid majors and low high mid
Speaker 1: you know, like there's a reason Nova was struggling a
Speaker 1: little bit in the Old Big East and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you come down you're playing against the New
Speaker 1: Big East competition and they're just throttling people. Right, So
Speaker 1: it's a it's a different level on day to day
Speaker 1: in terms of who you're playing against as opposed to
Speaker 1: who you're previously recruiting and playing against. Is that accurate, no,
Speaker 1: no question, without a doubt. And and uh, you know
Speaker 1: we were with having Rottney Clark sitting now um, and
Speaker 1: we had some talented guy I mean Roosevelt Jones. Those
Speaker 1: guys were good players, um and killing Downham a good player,
Speaker 1: and so we were able. We competed very well in
Speaker 1: the A t and I think we finished third in
Speaker 1: the A and it was a very strong year for
Speaker 1: the eight. St. Louis was really good that year, um.
Speaker 1: And then we got in the Unst A Tournament and
Speaker 1: then our first year in the Big East. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: we Roosevelt Jones was hurt. He tore up a risk
Speaker 1: um on a on a trip to Australia. Our team
Speaker 1: took our we took our team to Australia on one
Speaker 1: of those foreign trips um, and he tore up a
Speaker 1: risk um and was out for the year. And we
Speaker 1: weren't we weren't prepared from a roster standpoint to make
Speaker 1: that jump that quickly. Um, and uh for our first
Speaker 1: year in the in the Big East was not very good.
Speaker 1: And then the next two years we uh we competed well,
Speaker 1: got the unst A tournament and uh you know has
Speaker 1: had some success and and kind of set them up
Speaker 1: for you know where they are now. But UM, it
Speaker 1: took us a recruit We're able to get Kelan Martin
Speaker 1: and one of those eight early recruiting classes, and then
Speaker 1: you just you know, you have guys like Cam Woods
Speaker 1: and Roosevelt Jones and coming down him that were left over.
Speaker 1: Um you piece those guys together. We had a really
Speaker 1: tough kid that was a walk on named Alex Barlow. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: baseball guy and now he he you know he works
Speaker 1: uh in the Celtics organization. Just a just a really
Speaker 1: tough guy. And UM, you know, when you have those
Speaker 1: types of competitive people on your team, you've got a chance.
Speaker 1: And that's that's kind of how we were able to survive.
Speaker 1: Um there, but learned we had you know, coming down
Speaker 1: him can shooting and Kelan Martin, you know he rolled
Speaker 1: out of bed get in eighteen to twenties. So you
Speaker 1: put those guys together and we were able to, you know,
Speaker 1: hold and did a great job of kind of holding
Speaker 1: that whole situation together. And and uh, we had we
Speaker 1: had a really good group of kids that cared about winning.
Speaker 1: I really didn't care about how we want, just cared
Speaker 1: about winning. Um again, so we're able to keep it rolling. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Bradley, let me go back, which when Brad leaves?
Speaker 1: Where were you when Bratt when you find out Brad's
Speaker 1: going to go to the NBA. Brad called. I was
Speaker 1: sitting in a in Brandon Miller's car. We were heading
Speaker 1: to get coffee on the last day of camp. It
Speaker 1: was the last Friday of the four of we had.
Speaker 1: We ran four weeks of camp but Butler at that time,
Speaker 1: and we just finished up our camp staff meeting. We
Speaker 1: had like an hour before the campers we're gonna start
Speaker 1: rolling in and we had h and I were just
Speaker 1: getting in the car to go get a cup of
Speaker 1: coffee and uh, and Brad called to let us know
Speaker 1: that um, he wasn't gonna be at camp until after
Speaker 1: lunch that Danny Angel was coming and he was sitting
Speaker 1: down with him, and we knew, Um, I knew at
Speaker 1: that time. I knew Brad well enough and been arounding
Speaker 1: through you know. I mean, every every school was calling
Speaker 1: Brad at that time. You know, I think if I
Speaker 1: was eating the time when when U. C. L A
Speaker 1: reached out to Brad about coming out here. Um, and
Speaker 1: I knew the fact that he had actually was going
Speaker 1: to sit down face to face, that that this was real.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just somebody e gauging interest or Brad just
Speaker 1: you know, saying things. But no, and and I just
Speaker 1: remember hanging up the phone, you know, when bringing hung
Speaker 1: up the phone and and we had had that conversation
Speaker 1: on speaker phone. I just looked at Brandon. I'm like this,
Speaker 1: this dude's gone. Man, he's going to Boston. And and
Speaker 1: and good for him, you know, what a what an opportunity.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that's where I was. I was hading
Speaker 1: to get a cup of coffee sitting in the Kinklefield
Speaker 1: House parking lot when I found out. Okay, so did
Speaker 1: you have a chance to go? No? You know, I
Speaker 1: really I didn't entertain anything, you know, really like I
Speaker 1: was really happy in Indianapolis. I thought we had some
Speaker 1: good stuff going. Um, you know, and no, I never
Speaker 1: I never asked and I was never off you know.
Speaker 1: So um I was at that time when Brad left,
Speaker 1: I tried to get the Butler Hey coaching job. I
Speaker 1: interviewed with h I interviewed with Barry Color twice. So
Speaker 1: that's um, you know, I knew how the Butler way worked. UM,
Speaker 1: I knew the opportunity like this is how hey, this
Speaker 1: is how um that's how Fad might have got the job.
Speaker 1: Is how uh you know this is you know, Liquidder
Speaker 1: got the job. This how Brad got the job, Like
Speaker 1: this is how this place works, you know. Um, Matthew
Speaker 1: Graves and had already left to go to um South Alabama,
Speaker 1: like you know, like if I'm if I'm going to
Speaker 1: have a shot at this, this may be my shot,
Speaker 1: you know. And and uh so I tried to prepare
Speaker 1: in a very short amount of time, uh to interview
Speaker 1: with Barry and got to sit down with Barry Color
Speaker 1: twice and and ultimately he hired Brandon Miller. But um,
Speaker 1: that's kind of where my focus was at that time. Okay,
Speaker 1: so what's that like to be. Like you said, obvious,
Speaker 1: you're close to Brandon Miller and you're in the car
Speaker 1: hang up and you guys are both fighting after the
Speaker 1: same job. He gets it, You don't you stay? And
Speaker 1: what was what's that like? I think you're just you're
Speaker 1: a professional and you do the job like you focused,
Speaker 1: like you know you you you deal with the initial disappointment, right,
Speaker 1: I mean there's gonna be a human emotion there. You
Speaker 1: deal with the initial disappointment of you know, being maybe
Speaker 1: as close as you're gonna be to that opportunity UM.
Speaker 1: And really, at that time in my career, the closest
Speaker 1: I had been to something like that UM and out
Speaker 1: of school like Butler UM. You know, you're you're you're disappointed,
Speaker 1: but you're also like, hey, like you also have a
Speaker 1: job to do. You've got a family you need to
Speaker 1: take care of. UM, and you've got a team full
Speaker 1: of of athletes that that you've grown close to, that
Speaker 1: you care about and you want to you immediately turn
Speaker 1: your focus, so, hey, what's what's best about for these guys?
Speaker 1: And get out, get outside of your selfishness, get outside
Speaker 1: yourself and try to focus on what's what's best for
Speaker 1: the people, um that lean on you and that are
Speaker 1: around you, you know what's best for them and so, um,
Speaker 1: you know it wasn't awkward in any way. You know,
Speaker 1: we had worked together before. Um, you know he had
Speaker 1: played there. You know, Barry had recruited him. Like I
Speaker 1: got all the connections. He was a Butler guy, Like
Speaker 1: I did it. I respect all that I respect. You know,
Speaker 1: I played for a program, which tradition, I worked at
Speaker 1: a program right now, and I talk to you rich
Speaker 1: and tradition. Butler, you know, has their own tradition, Like
Speaker 1: I respect that. I understand all that, And so it
Speaker 1: wasn't really difficult for me once I got back uh
Speaker 1: into the job to do my job. You Um, and
Speaker 1: then you work for Holt, who got the job when
Speaker 1: Brandon takes a leave of absence and who really empowered you. Um.
Speaker 1: But then you you took a chance. And I remember
Speaker 1: you and I talking about about going to Nebraska like, look,
Speaker 1: I gotta you know, I gotta, I gotta try this. Um.
Speaker 1: What was you know, because there's lots of basketball coaches listeners,
Speaker 1: what was the decision like to leave Butler where you
Speaker 1: had Keelan Martin, you had dudes you'd figured out how
Speaker 1: to compete in the Big East, and you're in You're
Speaker 1: in your comfort zone in Indianapolis. But there's a you know,
Speaker 1: you keep bumping into kind of a ceiling there. Um.
Speaker 1: What was the what was the thought like about about
Speaker 1: leaving leaving for Nebraska? Well, what you just said, I
Speaker 1: was in my comfort zone and I felt like for
Speaker 1: me to to grow, I needed to get outside of
Speaker 1: my cumber zone. You know. We talked to are our
Speaker 1: players all the time about workouts, like you've got to
Speaker 1: You've got become comfortable being uncomfortable. You know, you can't.
Speaker 1: You're not going to get any better if you work
Speaker 1: out at a comfortable place or at a comfortable pace.
Speaker 1: You've got to expand your boundaries. Um, you know. And
Speaker 1: after year or two with Chris Um, Georgia Tech approached
Speaker 1: Chris about an opportunity um that he he ended up
Speaker 1: not doing. And and I knew again going back to
Speaker 1: the Butler way of promoting from within, I knew how
Speaker 1: that the whole process you know, took place. And Chris
Speaker 1: turned that down and and and came to us of
Speaker 1: the staff and say, hey, I'm gonna sign a longer
Speaker 1: term deal here with Butler. This is this is where
Speaker 1: I want to be. This is a lifetime decision for me,
Speaker 1: and UM, you know, with the timing of everything on
Speaker 1: Nebraska had a note meaning that that uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I could get involved with and I just felt like
Speaker 1: with everything going on, UM, you know, if I wanted
Speaker 1: to ultimately take the next step that it was this
Speaker 1: was an opportunity that I had to really considered, you know,
Speaker 1: as far as one jump into the Big Ten, which
Speaker 1: I had played in. UM loved being a part of
Speaker 1: the Big Ten, and you know, it's the highest level
Speaker 1: of of college basketball. You know, it's one of the
Speaker 1: premier leagues in the country, and so you get to
Speaker 1: compete against those coaches, against those players every day from
Speaker 1: you know, from the basketball point to the to the
Speaker 1: recruiting and everything that goes with it. UM. And it's
Speaker 1: just an opportunity to do that and plus get out
Speaker 1: of my comfort zone a little bit as as a coach.
Speaker 1: You know, I had grown up uh in Indiana, was
Speaker 1: coaching in Indiana. You know, when you're at Butler, you
Speaker 1: kind of you you recruit a certain type of player. UM,
Speaker 1: a certain type of kid has to fit the Butler way.
Speaker 1: So to speak, um, and I wanted to to expand
Speaker 1: myself a little bit and taking on a different challenge.
Speaker 1: And you know, Chris has given me a ton of
Speaker 1: responsibility as far as you know, calling the altinates and
Speaker 1: things there. Get allowed me to grow immensely as a
Speaker 1: coach because he gave me those responsibilities, and he gave
Speaker 1: me an opportunity to fail. Like I mean, that's how
Speaker 1: you learned. Like you fail, you learn from it more
Speaker 1: and you you don't make that same mistake again. So
Speaker 1: I felt like, well in my time with with Chris
Speaker 1: that I had really grown as a coach. I had
Speaker 1: really expanded, um, my knowledge of the coach as far
Speaker 1: as you know in game play calling and different things,
Speaker 1: and and um that it was just the timing of
Speaker 1: everything in his commitment to to Butler Um that it
Speaker 1: was time to take the next step. And you know
Speaker 1: I didn't in hindsight, I didn't realize he was gonna
Speaker 1: go to Ohio State, you know, twelve months later. But
Speaker 1: as I'm sitting here at u C, I think everything
Speaker 1: is has worked out. You just I've always tried to
Speaker 1: make decisions when they've come up on my plate in
Speaker 1: my career with the knowledge that I have at hand
Speaker 1: and and try to make the best decision at that time.
Speaker 1: And then once you make that decision, I never looked back,
Speaker 1: like I don't look back to hey, what effort this happened?
Speaker 1: That happened. Not not at all like everybody says. Everybody
Speaker 1: says that at all, because I mean, I'm talking about
Speaker 1: it right now to you, But like I don't, like
Speaker 1: I made a decision to go to Nebraska, and every
Speaker 1: day I was at Nebraska, I worked my ass off
Speaker 1: to make that decision, the right decision. I think that's
Speaker 1: your job. No, I understand. Look listen, I understand that.
Speaker 1: But but I but I mean, like, look, if I'm honest,
Speaker 1: and I was at ESPN for nine years, and I like,
Speaker 1: all I really, I mean, I wanted to make a
Speaker 1: certain amount of money. I wanted to continue to grow,
Speaker 1: and they offered me, honestly, the exact amount of money
Speaker 1: that I wanted, but they wouldn't promise any growth. And
Speaker 1: probably you know, like at the moment there, I was
Speaker 1: a little selfish, and I was like, why don't you
Speaker 1: you know? All I asked for is like these five things,
Speaker 1: and you said no, But you said yes to the
Speaker 1: money that I wanted, and you know, CBS offered me
Speaker 1: the opportunities that I wanted and uh not, you know
Speaker 1: a little bit more money, but I had to uproot
Speaker 1: my family. Like look in hindsight, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would just be honest, like, if I could go
Speaker 1: back and do it, I wouldn't have gotten to do
Speaker 1: the fun before. But there was also a lot of moving,
Speaker 1: a lot of hard stuff with the family in terms
Speaker 1: of moving. I think it's a reasonable thing to look
Speaker 1: back and to say was this the right decision? Was
Speaker 1: it the wrong decision. It doesn't mean you can't like
Speaker 1: I've I've every day I worked there. Every day I've
Speaker 1: worked at Fox like I try and you know, kick ass.
Speaker 1: I think about the Oaklahoma State job I didn't get,
Speaker 1: like I I think it's I think all these things
Speaker 1: are reasonable to look back at. Can you you can
Speaker 1: honestly not look back and have any sort of regret, Like, dude,
Speaker 1: if you would have stayed there, I don't know. If
Speaker 1: they hire vout they might. I mean he played at Butler,
Speaker 1: he was a head coach. You didn't have head coaching experience,
Speaker 1: but you were there, or you could have gone to
Speaker 1: a how States still been in the Big ten, you know,
Speaker 1: at a better spot than Nebraska in terms of getting
Speaker 1: players Like that, that's not a reasonable thing to at
Speaker 1: least think about. No, I think you can. I think
Speaker 1: you can look back and learn from decisions you make.
Speaker 1: But I don't spend a lot of time wondering what if,
Speaker 1: Like like, okay, say that does I'm like what you
Speaker 1: just said, Maybe that that scenario plays out, I'm at
Speaker 1: O while State. Do I have the opportunity to be
Speaker 1: at U c l A. Who knows? You don't know?
Speaker 1: Like That's why I don't spend a lot of time
Speaker 1: like there's so many waters, there's so many different scenarios.
Speaker 1: Like all I know is like I made a decision
Speaker 1: to go to Nebraska. I worked my ass off every
Speaker 1: day to help that program, you know, get better. In
Speaker 1: the last two years, we had the best two year
Speaker 1: run since ninety one. Okay, so I think it's in
Speaker 1: a better spot than when I when I first got there.
Speaker 1: And now now I get the opportunity to work at
Speaker 1: U c l A. If I don't go to Nebraska,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm not ever here at U c l A.
Speaker 1: And this is this is a really cool opportunity, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, for anybody in college basketball to be able
Speaker 1: to coach you at U c l A. So that's
Speaker 1: why I think. I think you can look back at
Speaker 1: the decisions you make. I think you can learn from them.
Speaker 1: But I don't. I don't spend a lot of time
Speaker 1: like how I could have done this or what if
Speaker 1: this would have happened like, because I think it just
Speaker 1: takes away from from the job that you have at hand.
Speaker 1: And I've I've been very fortunate by just doing the
Speaker 1: job I have at hand and trust in the process
Speaker 1: that it's gonna lead to whatever is next. And like
Speaker 1: I said, like I get I'm pretty lucky. I've been
Speaker 1: really lucky to be where I'm at. But that's how
Speaker 1: I've gone about my my career. And I'm sitting in Westwood.
Speaker 1: So I'm not too upset. I'm not I'm not going
Speaker 1: to change, you know. And maybe it's wrong to say,
Speaker 1: like I never looked at but I don't allow myself
Speaker 1: to spend a lot of time wondering about the what is,
Speaker 1: you know, I just thinking about how I can get there.
Speaker 1: You know, I think you learned from the decisions you make.
Speaker 1: Um if you had to go back and do it again.
Speaker 1: Like it all depends on the timing. That's why I say,
Speaker 1: I just when when a decision comes my way and
Speaker 1: I have to make a decision to up prove my
Speaker 1: family or to take the next job or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: I just used the knowledge that I have at that
Speaker 1: time and the president to try to make the best
Speaker 1: decision at that time, and then I spend the rest
Speaker 1: of my time trying to make whatever decision I decided
Speaker 1: to make it the best decision. And that's that's how
Speaker 1: I've gotten here. Okay, so this is this is the
Speaker 1: first time you were fired, right? Yeah? Yeah? What what
Speaker 1: what I mean? I couldn't have been terribly enjoyable to
Speaker 1: go to work because you know, like you're one of
Speaker 1: your best players is hurt, and there's this kind of
Speaker 1: cloud looming, right. And there's a lot of discussion over
Speaker 1: Nebraska basketball last year, and I thought I thought the
Speaker 1: whole thing was weird, to be honest as an outsider,
Speaker 1: because like, Nebraska is in the Big Twelve when I
Speaker 1: was there, obviously, and they were notorious for being talented,
Speaker 1: terrible on the road. It's never won an n c
Speaker 1: A tournament game, and you know, they they built incredible facilities.
Speaker 1: And I think that people think you sprinkle in some
Speaker 1: pixie dusk and facilities and you're just like all of
Speaker 1: a sudden gonna be at the top of the Big Ten.
Speaker 1: Like do you know how good the big and what
Speaker 1: you're doing, Like do you people have like fans have
Speaker 1: no excuse my French fucking clue, like the Big Ten,
Speaker 1: Like you're not the only one trying to be good,
Speaker 1: like Illinois has Illinois has been good forever and they
Speaker 1: have an awesome coach and they were at the bottom
Speaker 1: of the league. Like it's really really hard because all
Speaker 1: the coaches are good, all the teams are older than
Speaker 1: the other leagues, you know, and all the crowds are good.
Speaker 1: The arena is good, Like, yeah, you've got good facilities, great,
Speaker 1: so does most everybody else in the league. UM, And
Speaker 1: and they have they have more players that that grew
Speaker 1: up closer and fans of their program, right, and that's
Speaker 1: the that's the key to recruiting. UM. But what's what
Speaker 1: is that feeling like for a guy who you know, look,
Speaker 1: you've it hasn't been easy. You know, you didn't come
Speaker 1: out in the NBA Draft. You were in the USBL
Speaker 1: you did get cut after one game playing overseas, but
Speaker 1: you've never been fired before. What what is that? Like?
Speaker 1: Did Tim call you did? Did? How does that work? No?
Speaker 1: I mean like like we were rolling, we were thirteen
Speaker 1: and four. I think we're are thirteen and two, thirteen
Speaker 1: and four, and when we were ranked in the top
Speaker 1: twenty five and really kind of on on the track
Speaker 1: to do everything that that they expected, you know, of
Speaker 1: the team that we had in Nebraska in and and
Speaker 1: honestly that you know, Nebrasa has never won an nca
Speaker 1: tournament game. Um. You know, that challenge of doing that
Speaker 1: excited me. Um. And but the expectation of this year's
Speaker 1: team was to go to sweet six team, you know.
Speaker 1: And like that's what you talked about the fans, Like
Speaker 1: the best thing Nebraska has going for it is the fans.
Speaker 1: They have unbelievably passionate fans that love the Huskers. Um.
Speaker 1: But when you have that, you also sometimes get some
Speaker 1: some expectations and things that can be somewhat unrealistic. And um,
Speaker 1: the expectation for us was to basically stip a skip
Speaker 1: a step in the processor too and just you know,
Speaker 1: wind up in the Sweet sixteen. And and uh, like
Speaker 1: you know, like you've only been the in state tournament
Speaker 1: seven times. Somehow has taken me there one of those
Speaker 1: seven times, Like, let's just win a game and then
Speaker 1: won't worry about you know, what's what's next. And um,
Speaker 1: so that that's kind of what drove me as far
Speaker 1: as you know, the whole Nebraska thing. And I thought
Speaker 1: we were set up to do that and obviously we
Speaker 1: had a horrific injury with Isai Copelan turns a c
Speaker 1: O and you know, things got loose, and um, we
Speaker 1: just weren't able to win, you know, down the stretch
Speaker 1: and in the conference. And so you know, going through
Speaker 1: that whole deal is it's not a pleasant thing. But
Speaker 1: like you again, you've got to get outside yourself. You've
Speaker 1: gotta quit worrying about how this affects you and realize that,
Speaker 1: you know, James Palmer, Glenn Watson, Isaiah Roby, like, this
Speaker 1: is there one shot to be a college basketball player.
Speaker 1: You know, I got my opportunity, You've got your opportunity.
Speaker 1: This is there one shot to be a college basketball player.
Speaker 1: Now I can be selfiece of the coach, and I
Speaker 1: can quit working because hey, we're gonna get fired at
Speaker 1: the end of the year, okay, and I'm just completely
Speaker 1: be self absorbed or I can. I can put all
Speaker 1: my energy and trying to make you know, like what
Speaker 1: I talked about earlier, trying to make their experience for
Speaker 1: them as good as it possibly can be. And so
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of what got me to go to
Speaker 1: work every day and that and to continue to prepare
Speaker 1: and try to put them in the right positions at
Speaker 1: the right time. And um, that's how that's how I
Speaker 1: approach it. I don't know if that's the right way
Speaker 1: to approach it, that's how I went about it. Um.
Speaker 1: We had a good staff that that's stuck together and
Speaker 1: just try to focus our energy on those guys and
Speaker 1: trying to help him down the stretch. And um, we
Speaker 1: had a few more injuries come up, and we got
Speaker 1: down about six fellas at the end, and and the
Speaker 1: last three weeks of coaching those guys were probably as
Speaker 1: much fun as I've had in coaching. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: we had we had three dudes that could go get buckets. Um,
Speaker 1: and my house was great. Moms just finally told him
Speaker 1: in the locker room one day and filmily, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: you three guys go go try to get sixty five,
Speaker 1: and we'll figure it out with these other three and
Speaker 1: we're gonna see what we can do. And and um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think we run we ring off three
Speaker 1: or four consecutive wins and and hopefully you know, those
Speaker 1: guys can remember the end of their career for for
Speaker 1: accomplishing that and kind of forget that no part of
Speaker 1: the season, but um, it was. It was a it
Speaker 1: was a different deal. No, I mean no question. What
Speaker 1: if you were going to religous this night met Tim, Tim,
Speaker 1: I was going to get another job. Right, He's done
Speaker 1: a good job every we's been Uh, if there was
Speaker 1: one thing about how Tim Miles coaches that you will
Speaker 1: take with you that you will tell other people you
Speaker 1: should do this or this is what makes him great?
Speaker 1: What is it? Well? The thing I respect about Tim
Speaker 1: the most is how he got to a Power of
Speaker 1: five conference and like listen, like he got fired whatever
Speaker 1: day it was, he was on a flight six am
Speaker 1: next morning interviewing for another Power of five job. Like
Speaker 1: he's a good basketball coach. Um, and I I and
Speaker 1: I give him a lot of credit because like what
Speaker 1: I told him, I'm like I said, Tim when you
Speaker 1: took over Nebraska, UM, somebody with the reputation and stature
Speaker 1: of Fred Hoiberg wasn't going to be interested in Nebraska.
Speaker 1: I said, what you've done in seven years, um, and
Speaker 1: elevated the visibility of the program. To put that program,
Speaker 1: you know, headed in the right direction. A guy like
Speaker 1: Fred Hoiberg now once that job and and that what
Speaker 1: ultimately got you is what you should probably be most
Speaker 1: proud of is because you've set that job up in
Speaker 1: the position where somebody like Fred, you know, wants to
Speaker 1: take over. I think it's a great time, uh, to
Speaker 1: take over the agram at Nebraska. You've got an unbelievable
Speaker 1: fan base, facilities, everything. You just got to get players
Speaker 1: to want to be there. And I said, hopefully they
Speaker 1: can achieve that. But I think the best thing that
Speaker 1: I was, the thing I respect the most about him
Speaker 1: is how he's how he kind of started like he
Speaker 1: didn't have Like he didn't play Division one like you
Speaker 1: and I. You know, he like he didn't play for
Speaker 1: legendary coaches like you and I. UM, like he you know,
Speaker 1: he was a n a I a guy that you
Speaker 1: know wasn't good enough to play, became a student assistant
Speaker 1: and just worked himself all the way up to Nebraska.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the hell of a story for him,
Speaker 1: because you don't you don't just wind up in Nebraska,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't wind up in the power of
Speaker 1: five head job. Um. And just how he's gone about it,
Speaker 1: um to get to where he got, I think is
Speaker 1: an unbelievable story. So just you know, that little ship
Speaker 1: he has on his on his shoulder to kind of
Speaker 1: prove everybody wrong. Um, you know, I think is one
Speaker 1: of his his greatest qualities. So you're cleaning at your
Speaker 1: garage right at in in Lincoln, but like you're because
Speaker 1: you're moving or you're just your wife is like, go
Speaker 1: clean the drage. You're annoying me. No, when when you
Speaker 1: spend a winter in Lincoln, Nebraska, like you you drag
Speaker 1: snow and salt all that stuff into your garage and
Speaker 1: when you're when you're unemployed. Um, you know, I was
Speaker 1: very fortunate in Nebraska. They had another year on my contract,
Speaker 1: so I didn't have to do anything. I could have
Speaker 1: could have kind of been a bump for for twelve months,
Speaker 1: but our fourteen months whatever it was gonna be. But um,
Speaker 1: you live in Lincoln, Nebraska. You when the spring comes
Speaker 1: and the weather breaks, you've got to get all that
Speaker 1: that snow and winter junk out of your garage. Otherwise
Speaker 1: you just continue to track it into your house. So, um,
Speaker 1: when you're unemployed, your your wife's picks a day and
Speaker 1: and you and her just go to the garage and
Speaker 1: you're going to clean out the garage. So that's what
Speaker 1: I was doing. And I got a little people on
Speaker 1: my phone and happened to be mccron So okay, so
Speaker 1: you pick up the phone and did you have his
Speaker 1: number saved? Like did you say mcronin? Or is this
Speaker 1: like uh Cincinnati number? Is it an l a number game?
Speaker 1: What is it? No, it was, it was it was
Speaker 1: I got mixed number on my song like I was
Speaker 1: at when I was at Eastern Illinois, like he was
Speaker 1: at Merge State. He was the head coach of Merge State. Um,
Speaker 1: so we competed against each other a little bit there
Speaker 1: while as a butler, we played Cincinnati, um, you know,
Speaker 1: and so we we had a relationship where, um, you know,
Speaker 1: we've exchanged a few texts, you know, a year of cinema,
Speaker 1: you know, like the wine emoji or something. After a
Speaker 1: big win, say congrats to him or something. And I
Speaker 1: think he would watch our teams play, you know, late
Speaker 1: at nine different things, and if we won a big game,
Speaker 1: you know I'd get a you know, a text or
Speaker 1: two a year congrats or you know, good luck or
Speaker 1: thinking obvious things like that. We would see each other
Speaker 1: on the road recruiting always say hi, hit chat a
Speaker 1: little bit. You know how that stuff goes. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it popped up mccronin and it was just say, just
Speaker 1: checking in on you, Um, you know, how are things going?
Speaker 1: And he had he had just recently got the usually job.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, as it was you know, things
Speaker 1: are good, I said, not as good as they're going
Speaker 1: for you. You know, it's you've just gotten gotten this job.
Speaker 1: But um, that's kind of how things things got started.
Speaker 1: And we just started talking from there. So so you
Speaker 1: you get to have you ever been to u c
Speaker 1: l A before you took the job? I had driven
Speaker 1: uh by campus. I've been out here recruiting a few times.
Speaker 1: There was a there was a big Adida's tournament out here.
Speaker 1: Um you know that I always come to and and
Speaker 1: uh it was in the old recruiting calendar. It was
Speaker 1: the end of the second week. Um, you know, whether
Speaker 1: it was Verdondall Beach or in Anaheim, A couple of
Speaker 1: different tournaments that I would come out here in recruit.
Speaker 1: So I had been in the area a few times, obviously. Um.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter where you grow up. You know of
Speaker 1: U c l A. You know in their basketball program,
Speaker 1: their history, their tradition, the players like you know, all
Speaker 1: that stuff. I don't care where you grow up. Um. So,
Speaker 1: but to get out here in the field every day
Speaker 1: and to be around it every day, um, obviously, I
Speaker 1: mean special is not an ad to of it's that's
Speaker 1: good enough to explain it. But um, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of a I'm a small town Indiana guy, I respect.
Speaker 1: I love going to work in Hincklefield House every day
Speaker 1: because of of you know what that that Jim stood for.
Speaker 1: I love playing in the sim Way hall. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I like the I like the old stuff, like you know,
Speaker 1: and and to be a part of this, this university.
Speaker 1: And and just think of the guys who have been
Speaker 1: here and walking to the PAULI like when you have
Speaker 1: you ever walked in that hallway, lean out of um downstairs,
Speaker 1: off the court and into the locker room. Have you
Speaker 1: ever been in that hallway? But yeah, the greatest hallway
Speaker 1: in college basketball, they call it. I mean that if
Speaker 1: that doesn't get you, being like a guy like you
Speaker 1: and I I mean, I don't know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's obviously a special place and I'm very very fortunate
Speaker 1: too to be able to represent it in a very
Speaker 1: small way. Um, have you found a good place to
Speaker 1: get a course? Like? Well, that's that's been the most
Speaker 1: difficult thing. And like if you were to ask me,
Speaker 1: what is the most surprising thing about being here at
Speaker 1: U c. L A Is the difficulty in finding a
Speaker 1: good ice cold cores? L Um? You know, you go
Speaker 1: to these different restaurants and everybody's got their own little
Speaker 1: beer selection and and all the different breweries and I
Speaker 1: P A s and different things. And I'm a pretty
Speaker 1: simple guy, as you know, Like I just need an
Speaker 1: ice cold cores. Like but I did. I found a
Speaker 1: seven eleven, Um, got it, got it, got a twelve
Speaker 1: pack and put it in my hotel fridge. And so
Speaker 1: I'll be okay, so I get settled. Um, okay, Uh,
Speaker 1: last thing, all of these experiences and and look, you
Speaker 1: still you want your first job, right, you want your
Speaker 1: first head head coaching job. UM, what what what is
Speaker 1: it gonna take for you to get the right opportunity? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, the older I get, you know, I try
Speaker 1: not it's like looking back. I try not to look
Speaker 1: too too far forward. I think, UM, when an opportunity
Speaker 1: presents itself, it's the right one for me. UM. You know,
Speaker 1: I have a kind of a vision of what that's
Speaker 1: going to be. It's gonna be where you Um, you
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to be successful. UM. You know things
Speaker 1: are in place to be successful and and UM, that's
Speaker 1: that's so much more to me than than just the
Speaker 1: basketball program. Like do you have UM you know, is
Speaker 1: your your president and the university administration, UM, your athletic
Speaker 1: director and the athletic administration, UM and myself where we
Speaker 1: walk in hand in hand and trying to achieve the
Speaker 1: same things. UM. And I think when you find that,
Speaker 1: that's that's when you ultimately can have the most success. UM.
Speaker 1: And I think that that is what we're trying to
Speaker 1: get to right now here in u c l A.
Speaker 1: I think it's a great opportunity to come be a
Speaker 1: part of it. UM. But that's what I'm looking for
Speaker 1: in my first job. I don't I'm not too concerned
Speaker 1: about little major and minor major high major like. UM.
Speaker 1: I just wanna, you know, right now, make um U
Speaker 1: c l A as good as we possibly can make it.
Speaker 1: And if we do that, then the next opportunity is
Speaker 1: gonna come my way. But I do have a vision
Speaker 1: of what I want to what I wanted to look like,
Speaker 1: how I wanted to feel. I've been very fortunate to
Speaker 1: be around um you know, we've talked a little bit
Speaker 1: about all of them, uh some unbelievable coaches. UM. I
Speaker 1: know what success feels like. UM, I know the type
Speaker 1: of people that it that it takes to be around
Speaker 1: the program to have that type of success. UM and
Speaker 1: and uh so I realized how fortunate I've been, and
Speaker 1: I hope to get that opportunity in the future. But
Speaker 1: when that comes, it will come, you know. Right now,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm trying to to help these guys enjoy their experience.
Speaker 1: At three thirty when we work out again. All right,
Speaker 1: I got I got two or three more. Your favorite
Speaker 1: high school gym in Indiana is what Memorial Gymnasium, Huntingburg, Indiana.
Speaker 1: It's it's about seven and miles south of jas where
Speaker 1: it's where our our sexual tournament was, which was in
Speaker 1: the first round of the state tournament when I was there. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like Polly where you just see
Speaker 1: the roof and it goes down into the ground. Um.
Speaker 1: It held about seven thousand people on on on tournament
Speaker 1: nights and it was it was sold out with all
Speaker 1: the town COMMUNI Huntingburg, Indiana, Huntingburg South roof graders. Yeah,
Speaker 1: small little town about seven miles south of JASP. So, Um,
Speaker 1: I could go back, if I could go back and
Speaker 1: play one more game, Like if I could go back
Speaker 1: and like the knees don't hurt. Everything is, everything is
Speaker 1: back when you were eighteen years old. Like that's what
Speaker 1: I'm looking at pictures of it. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's cool. It was hot in there, it'd be it'd
Speaker 1: be Oh, it's always so hot in there with all
Speaker 1: the people. It's right, Okay, Uh favorite favorite big ten arena.
Speaker 1: Sim I mean that was you getting more softball for me? No,
Speaker 1: I'm just okay. So tell me something about about I've
Speaker 1: shared previously. My my, my nightmare. We got blown up.
Speaker 1: We're down forty fourteen at IU in January, in February
Speaker 1: and see me in the November of Andre Patterson threw
Speaker 1: a block a shot. He threw a shot of mine
Speaker 1: into the third row. I think he hit John Mellencamp
Speaker 1: actually with the basketball. UM. And that was on the
Speaker 1: beginning of sports centers, Like are you ready for sports Center?
Speaker 1: It's like, no, it was like that that was my
Speaker 1: shot that he just rejected. Uh, you tell me something
Speaker 1: about you know, you tell me about the greatest was
Speaker 1: it hallway in college basketball at U c l A.
Speaker 1: What's that's the coolest part about about Assembly Hall that
Speaker 1: only somebody who played their nose, Um, I would like.
Speaker 1: I like going in there when it was when it
Speaker 1: was empty. Yeah, and like all the lights were on,
Speaker 1: like just you know, some of the flood lights that
Speaker 1: they would you know, have on, like when when you
Speaker 1: were able to get in there when you probably weren't
Speaker 1: supposed to. Um, you know that was that was my
Speaker 1: favorite time. He was kind of going there and look
Speaker 1: around and and uh have that feeling. It was. He
Speaker 1: was interesting. We took our team that we went there
Speaker 1: this year. Uh and and we we went and shot
Speaker 1: around the night before with with some of our guys
Speaker 1: that went in the night before because we did a
Speaker 1: shoot around on game day, but the night before we
Speaker 1: we was always have cyber. These guys want to go
Speaker 1: get some extra shots and and um, you know, Izy
Speaker 1: Copeland was still healthy at the time when he was shooting,
Speaker 1: and uh, he's like, He's like, coach, you can you
Speaker 1: can like almost feel the history in here, you know,
Speaker 1: And now I'm I'm coaching a different team in there,
Speaker 1: you know. So I'm trying to combat that. Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I understood exactly what he was saying, but I'm like, dude, listen,
Speaker 1: those those five banners. They're not playing tomorrow night. You know,
Speaker 1: those banners. They're not scoring any point. You know. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to get him out of that mode. But I
Speaker 1: knew exactly what he was what he was talking about
Speaker 1: and feeling the history. And you feel that same thing
Speaker 1: when you're on this campus. You walk into PAULI Like,
Speaker 1: you look up and you've got those loving banners hanging
Speaker 1: up there, and you've got the jerseys of those guys
Speaker 1: hanging up there, like like you feel, uh, you feel
Speaker 1: that history, you feel that tradition, and that's what makes
Speaker 1: those places so special. I got I got to share
Speaker 1: with you. Jason, call your story, so call your visited
Speaker 1: us at Notre Dame before going to you guys, and
Speaker 1: we thought we had a shot. And uh, we had
Speaker 1: a guy named Gary bells as nutfellow freshman, and I
Speaker 1: remember our coaches called us in. They're like, hey, look
Speaker 1: we've got Jason Caller coming this week uh with the
Speaker 1: kid Jason Caller and the and the Babel twins came
Speaker 1: in same weekend. So like three best white guys in
Speaker 1: America coming in and uh and um and so uh
Speaker 1: they call us in and you know, like as freshman,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a host and pat Gary is a sophomore,
Speaker 1: he's a host. Hey look, Caller is a great dude,
Speaker 1: great player, but he does not drink, he does not smoke,
Speaker 1: and he doesn't like cursing. It's very leges like all right,
Speaker 1: well fine, all false information, by the way, all false information. Okay,
Speaker 1: So so so we which I'm sure, so right, So
Speaker 1: we get uh they come pick me up in my
Speaker 1: dorm and then we go rolling. We go down to
Speaker 1: Gary Bell's dorm which is like two dorms down and
Speaker 1: literally opened the door and he's got like a cigar
Speaker 1: in his mouth and forties in his arms, Like, what's
Speaker 1: up fellas this pregame? You know, Um, but I never
Speaker 1: forget that, he said. He's like we knew he was
Speaker 1: going to the end because he's like, man, coach Knight
Speaker 1: was amazing, Like my grandma loves him. He's so funny
Speaker 1: to you know, like he people got them all wrong,
Speaker 1: which people do have him had him kind of them
Speaker 1: all wrong. But he's like, you know, he doesn't curse
Speaker 1: all the time. That's like totally overdone. And we're like,
Speaker 1: a dude, what give me your your How good a
Speaker 1: host were you when you're at IU when you we
Speaker 1: had a host a recruit? How good were you? Well?
Speaker 1: I like to think I was pretty good. We we
Speaker 1: got we got a lot of the guys I hosted. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, now like the circasing story, he was he
Speaker 1: was an NBA draft pick, but um, you know he
Speaker 1: came to campus and and uh, you know, like hey,
Speaker 1: you you know there's a party here, there's a party here,
Speaker 1: you know, like what do you want to do? And
Speaker 1: he was just like I just I really want some
Speaker 1: steak and shake and just take me back to the hotel.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, this guy is from small town Tennessee,
Speaker 1: like where there's no way we're getting this guy. So
Speaker 1: we went and got him a couple of cheeseburgers and
Speaker 1: took his host money and went down to the party
Speaker 1: and had a hell of a good time. But and
Speaker 1: he ended up coming in the NIB a pretty good player.
Speaker 1: But like, I think some of those visits are overrated.
Speaker 1: You know, each each guy is different, like you see
Speaker 1: it in recruiting. What they're looking for, what their family
Speaker 1: looking for, um, And it's just got to be a fit.
Speaker 1: And I know it was for me when I walked
Speaker 1: on campus, like you know, like the but now some
Speaker 1: of the best host times that we had, like and
Speaker 1: we're like, oh this dude had a blast. Who getting him?
Speaker 1: Didn't get him getting you know, I know, but I do.
Speaker 1: I do think that some of it is also for
Speaker 1: like we used to Oklahoma State. We used to use
Speaker 1: it because we had a boat. Right there were guys
Speaker 1: that we went to. We went to the coaches like
Speaker 1: he's not one of us, Like no, no thanks, and
Speaker 1: like really like now we we we think this guy
Speaker 1: is awesome, Like no, not at all. Um, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: we five his visit. He came in for a football
Speaker 1: weekend and we were supposed to take him the football
Speaker 1: game and he didn't want to go, and he wanted
Speaker 1: to sit in my apartment and eat Buffal Louis and
Speaker 1: watch Michigan play Michigan football game on on ABC. So
Speaker 1: when coach asked, hey, what do you guys do yesterday?
Speaker 1: How was the football game? Like, well, we didn't go,
Speaker 1: but what do you do? And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: we set in my apartment at Buffal Louis and we
Speaker 1: watched Michigan play I don't know whoever they were playing
Speaker 1: on TV, and like coach Knight was all piste off
Speaker 1: of me, but we ended up getting, you know. But
Speaker 1: like he didn't want to go. I don't blame you.
Speaker 1: We didn't go down you games when I was playing,
Speaker 1: like you know, like you said at home, we don't
Speaker 1: watched Michigan Notre Dame and like that's what we did,
Speaker 1: you know, um, And that's that's what we got. And
Speaker 1: he wanted to watch Michigan on his iucause he wanted
Speaker 1: to watch Michigan play football. Um, so that's what we
Speaker 1: did and we ended up getting. So that's actually amazing.
Speaker 1: I've had five I've had five, Okay, last thing. Uh,
Speaker 1: the best guy that you love seeing on the road. Okay,
Speaker 1: we have like somebody we have not just that You're
Speaker 1: just like, look, I've been a basketball coach for twenty years.
Speaker 1: This is a this is a great dude that people
Speaker 1: should know about. UM, well, I'll give you an assistant,
Speaker 1: and I'll give you a head coach assistant. Like I
Speaker 1: met Lucadino who's now at Wishantall State. UM, he's been
Speaker 1: a friend of mine since we were in college. UM,
Speaker 1: and so I always enjoy sitting and talking with him,
Speaker 1: just kind of catching up from like as a friend thing,
Speaker 1: UM as as a coaching thing. Like I've Um, I
Speaker 1: don't even know if Roy Williams knows my name, but
Speaker 1: he has been extremely gracious to me every time I've
Speaker 1: seen him. And if he doesn't know my name, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't know it from our interactions. He'll sit down and
Speaker 1: he'll talk, and you know, we'll we'll end up talking
Speaker 1: for two or three games, and you know, I'll ask
Speaker 1: him about you know, he's always got buddies with him
Speaker 1: and his golf trips and he tells me all about it,
Speaker 1: and it kind of reminds you of sitting down talking
Speaker 1: to your grandfather, you know, and just you know, all
Speaker 1: the good stories he has, and he'll get he's a
Speaker 1: great storyteller, and he just starts telling all these great stories.
Speaker 1: And I just enjoy sitting there, you know, listening to him.
Speaker 1: And unlike I said, I don't even know if he
Speaker 1: knows he knows what my name is. But every time
Speaker 1: I see him, um, you know, and we're within a
Speaker 1: close vicinity, we end up we end up talking, and
Speaker 1: and I've always enjoyed those times. It's pretty cool. For
Speaker 1: a guy like me, it's pretty cool. Yeah, for anybody,
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool. Anybody's pretty cool. He doesn't like me,
Speaker 1: He's he he doesn't like me. So he used to
Speaker 1: really be nice to me. He was super nice to
Speaker 1: my dad, and I always thought he's he's like the
Speaker 1: world's greatest dude, and he doesn't like me because the
Speaker 1: information he was given on what I said on CBS
Speaker 1: was not terribly accurate. But whatever I said, I said,
Speaker 1: I said, uh, you know, like, look, people wonder this
Speaker 1: is back when he had his knees were bad and
Speaker 1: he had the spins. You know, he gets that kind
Speaker 1: of like once a year. And I was like, look,
Speaker 1: people wonder if he wins a Nation chanship, he'll retire,
Speaker 1: like a legit discussion within the sport. And so it
Speaker 1: got kind of spun around too. I said Roy Williams
Speaker 1: gonna retire. It's like, no, that's not what I said.
Speaker 1: But whatever, I do think, I think he's amazing. Uh,
Speaker 1: he's interesting dude and probably the greatest head coach recruiter
Speaker 1: that there has ever been. Right, Like, I think self
Speaker 1: is really good. But you know, like Roy Williams used,
Speaker 1: he still does. He comes, he sits down in midcourt
Speaker 1: whoever somebody he wants, he comes and sits down mid courts.
Speaker 1: Everybody knows Roy Williams there and he makes it a
Speaker 1: personal quest to get that one guy and or or
Speaker 1: whatever those guys are. And he has an unbelievable level
Speaker 1: of energy for recruiting still and uh, and he does.
Speaker 1: He does have his He he does roll deep like
Speaker 1: he's funny. He's kind of got a positive like who
Speaker 1: are those guys? Like those are Roy Williams guys? Like okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: there there's boys and they're just itching that He's got
Speaker 1: to watch a game or two and they're itching to
Speaker 1: get out to hit the hit the golf course or
Speaker 1: the closest casino and and uh, you know, good for him.
Speaker 1: I think he's learned that that right to do that stuff. Um.
Speaker 1: How what's a reasonable what's a reasonable expectation for U
Speaker 1: C l A Over the first couple of years. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's difficult. Like I'm still learning
Speaker 1: our personnel. Um. You know, I think when you first
Speaker 1: get in here with the open recruiting period, you're you're
Speaker 1: really focused on the recruiting aspect. Um. I think we
Speaker 1: have some talented kids on this team. Um. I think,
Speaker 1: um that they will if if we can get them
Speaker 1: to there's a there's this big misconception about Mick and
Speaker 1: offensive defense. But if we can get these guys to
Speaker 1: defend in the way that I believe that they're capable
Speaker 1: of based on their athleticism, um, and you couple it
Speaker 1: with their offensive abilities, and then we're going to have
Speaker 1: an opportunity to have uh some success. Um. Now, if
Speaker 1: if we don't do that, like like scoring points was
Speaker 1: not a problem for this basketball team, um, you know,
Speaker 1: defending guys, you know was And so we've we've got
Speaker 1: to get that mentality and that focus. They've got to
Speaker 1: realize UM with all their abilities on one end, if
Speaker 1: they can if they can pick it up on the other, Uh,
Speaker 1: it can. It can lead to winning. And that's got
Speaker 1: to become important to them. You know, the highlight play
Speaker 1: has got to become secondary. Winning has got to become
Speaker 1: number one and and everything that they want to achieve
Speaker 1: will be right their form and and UH, it's been
Speaker 1: a fun group to work with. Like I'm looking, I'm
Speaker 1: excited about three thirty to day to get out with
Speaker 1: them for our second work out of the summer. I
Speaker 1: gotta work out with them for about about a week
Speaker 1: when I first got here with the quarter system finishing UM.
Speaker 1: So we're still kind of get to know each other.
Speaker 1: They're getting a better feel for make and what he's
Speaker 1: looking for you to win. A lot of teaching UM,
Speaker 1: and these guys have been very they've responded very well UM.
Speaker 1: And and obviously they're trying to impress a new staff
Speaker 1: and and but I think it's a good group UM
Speaker 1: with some with a very high ceiling. UM. There's just
Speaker 1: some some habits that that I've gone awry and we've
Speaker 1: got to tighten some things up. But it's gonna be
Speaker 1: fun to work with. And I think if if we
Speaker 1: can we can recruit the right side of kids um
Speaker 1: that are about the right things, and you couple that
Speaker 1: with the level of talent that you can attract your
Speaker 1: musil a um, then we can do some special things.
Speaker 1: And that's what I'm looking forward to, no question, no question.
Speaker 1: All right, man, I've taken enough of your time. Best
Speaker 1: of luck finding actual watering holes with course light. I
Speaker 1: will I will make my personal quest. I I think
Speaker 1: the places you're looking to live you have a better
Speaker 1: chance than than right around the campus in Westwood in
Speaker 1: the meantime, But thanks for hunt. When when my family
Speaker 1: gets up here, and then you're gonna like I made
Speaker 1: that trip on your spot. Now, when my family gets
Speaker 1: out here in middle mid July, we'll have you up
Speaker 1: and have a barbecue, and I promise you I will
Speaker 1: have found um. I already know what to bring. This
Speaker 1: is so easy, Like I hate bringing over like a
Speaker 1: bottle of wine. How about that bad bottle of wine.
Speaker 1: I hope you threw that bottle of wine. That place
Speaker 1: I had to stop at next to your house was
Speaker 1: like the place to go And why did you do that?
Speaker 1: Why did you do that? Like it was very thoughtful
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. It was the first time I
Speaker 1: was going to meet your wife. It was the first
Speaker 1: time I was going to meet your wife. And I
Speaker 1: was like, I gotta show, like I can't just be
Speaker 1: the dude that just shows up, right. So I don't
Speaker 1: know I was, I was. I don't know, I was
Speaker 1: just not being who I am. Like I'm I've got
Speaker 1: pretty comfortable of my own skin, and I was I
Speaker 1: was trying to be nice and and and get a
Speaker 1: bottle of wine. And I'm sure it was. It was
Speaker 1: very nice, but it's you know, it's like it's like
Speaker 1: that kiss on the cheek thing that people do like
Speaker 1: and like you get into, you get into. I go
Speaker 1: to a party and people like come with you. You're like,
Speaker 1: we're not French. I don't do that. So I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna do that because it's not who I am and
Speaker 1: like and so maybe people think I'm an asshole because
Speaker 1: I don't bring a bottle one, but I do, you know, like,
Speaker 1: I will bring it. I'll bring you a twelver of
Speaker 1: Coors Light. It'll be ice cold. I may have to
Speaker 1: put it in my jetti so he comes out and
Speaker 1: I would I will impress you in that way, and
Speaker 1: then you have to tell me if your wife like
Speaker 1: likes wine, that will will bring wine. Hey dude, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: wife like she's good. She like light, she likes bud light.
Speaker 1: But she'll drink course like. She's like me if it's cold. Mike,
Speaker 1: we're good now, I know. Wait, hold on, hold on,
Speaker 1: writens down twelver and a sixer. Bottles or cans. She's
Speaker 1: don't tell me she's in the cans. No, she's a
Speaker 1: bottle girl, she says. I mean she's kind of got
Speaker 1: enough and in her older age she prefers bottles. Now, Mike,
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us. It's no problem. I appreciated. Dog.
Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions. So the Doug got
Speaker 1: leaps show wheat days in noon eastern three pm Pacific.
Speaker 1: All right, that was That was great with Mike Lewis.
Speaker 1: Let me give you this thought on on the Houston Rockets.
Speaker 1: You know the Rockets. I understand how they've used analytics,
Speaker 1: and I am not one of these ostrich put your
Speaker 1: head in the sand, gonna deny the value of analytics
Speaker 1: in basketball or in any sport. It's an important part
Speaker 1: of baseball, it's an important part of football. It's an
Speaker 1: important part of basketball, but the perfect example of how
Speaker 1: the Rockets spent too much time with analytics and not
Speaker 1: enough time building a team, and now they're trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how to fix what ails them, and they
Speaker 1: may end up making more of a problem. Look at
Speaker 1: two years ago when they won. When they lost in
Speaker 1: Game seven, should be pointed out that in Dex Andrea
Speaker 1: Dolla's reminding us he didn't play in that game. He's
Speaker 1: a huge part of the the Warriors. So the Rockets
Speaker 1: saying when we didn't have Chris Paul, the Warriors didn't
Speaker 1: have Andrea Dollah is not as good a players Chris Paul,
Speaker 1: but he is almost as important to what the Warriors
Speaker 1: are able to do. But the point is, instead of
Speaker 1: maybe exploiting that mismatch as they had done previously in
Speaker 1: the series, they became overly reliant on the three point
Speaker 1: shot and miss seven in a row. On paper, you
Speaker 1: shouldn't miss and analytics, you shouldn't miss twenty seven in
Speaker 1: a row. Right that there isn't There isn't that kind
Speaker 1: of stretch because after you you have the same percentage
Speaker 1: chance of missing one as you do the next one,
Speaker 1: as you do the next one as you do the
Speaker 1: next one. That's how statistics work. It's not you know,
Speaker 1: this whole water finds its level if you're you know,
Speaker 1: you know, like like if you're shoot, you're forty percent
Speaker 1: shoot on every shot that you take. It doesn't believe
Speaker 1: in hot streaks. Doesn't believe. It does believe in hot spots,
Speaker 1: but not as much hot streaks. It's statistics, and I
Speaker 1: think it has value. But the perfect example of why
Speaker 1: the Rockets are in the mess that they're in being
Speaker 1: good but not able to be great and win a
Speaker 1: title is on paper, Chris Paul and James Harden work
Speaker 1: together when they're both in the lineup. They're incredibly efficient offensively,
Speaker 1: they're good basketball teams. But Chris Paul, like the rest
Speaker 1: of us, hates watching James Harden dribble a ball to death,
Speaker 1: and James Harden, like the rest of us, is like man,
Speaker 1: Chris Paul kind of seems old, right, and so they
Speaker 1: struggle to get along with each other. You can't see
Speaker 1: that in statistical data, because analytically speaking, the team is
Speaker 1: far better with both of them on the court than
Speaker 1: they are with either of them off the floor. So
Speaker 1: now they're gonna ad Jimmy Butler his fourth team in
Speaker 1: four years. That's paying only attention to we can be
Speaker 1: more efficient, we can be better, instead of paying attention
Speaker 1: to how does the team actually feel and how do
Speaker 1: they get along? Good luck with that. Last thing is this,
Speaker 1: um we're gonna have more coaches on and basketball people
Speaker 1: on about the off season. I do think Kansas would
Speaker 1: be my preseason number one. And UM, I love the
Speaker 1: idea that the n C is going to continue to
Speaker 1: try and get back to the cutting down on the waivers.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that, UM, I don't think that some
Speaker 1: kids transfer home for the right reasons because you have
Speaker 1: us sick uncle or grandpa, mom or dad. But just
Speaker 1: enough people have lied about it and have gamed the
Speaker 1: system where we don't believe anybody anymore. That's really kind
Speaker 1: of what it is, right. It's the same reason you
Speaker 1: take off your shoes at a when you go through
Speaker 1: the airport screener. There's one guy who tried to blow
Speaker 1: out the world with his shoes. We'll have to take
Speaker 1: our shoes is like ten years later, more than ten
Speaker 1: years later. Sorry, one guy kind of ruined it for
Speaker 1: the rest of us. That's the way it works. And
Speaker 1: the reality is that if you're going to transfer home,
Speaker 1: even if for the reasons that you know, you get
Speaker 1: a grandpost like you can take a year off and
Speaker 1: help that person get healthy or spend time with them
Speaker 1: while they're sick. Speaking of being sick, Um arrest in
Speaker 1: peace too. Tony BARRONI great basketball coach, awesome guy. And
Speaker 1: he was a coach Tech Sam when I first got
Speaker 1: Tokoha mistake. And I will never forget the last line
Speaker 1: I heard him say, as head coach at Tech say
Speaker 1: at m he had been fired. It was in March,
Speaker 1: and we were at the Herford House in Kansas City
Speaker 1: where we always ate the night before the Big twelve tournament,
Speaker 1: and he comes walking in in his maroon sweats, just
Speaker 1: with his assistant coaches, and Edie Sutton says, Tony, where's
Speaker 1: your team? And Tony says, those fucking guys let them
Speaker 1: at McDonald's. They got my ass fired. How you doing, coach?
Speaker 1: He coached Anoy Benjamin at Creighton, which should earn him
Speaker 1: automatic entrance into the gates of heaven. St. Peter got
Speaker 1: himself an angel, will give him some wings. Tony is
Speaker 1: a good dude. And then his son just got the
Speaker 1: head coaching job at Southern Illinois Edwardsville. I believe I
Speaker 1: think Brian will do an excellent job. Rest in peace
Speaker 1: to the great Tony Brownie. I'm Doug Gottliebin. This is
Speaker 1: all ball