WEBVTT - Kyrie will exhaust KD; UCLA Asst. Mike Lewis on coaching with Brad Stevens and playing for Bobby Knight 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:11.000 Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is all ball, 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:15.320 all basketball, all the time. We have a lengthy discussion 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.720 with my man Mike Lewis, uh former Gatorade Player of 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:20.759 the Year in the State of Indiana. But you'll hear 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.000 an interesting story as far as whether or not he 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.319 was Mr Basketball in the State of Indiana, played for 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:31.520 I you started for four years. Got some Bob Nights stories, um, 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:35.120 And then we'll talk about coaching and coaching with with 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.760 Brad Stevens and what that's really like coaching with Tim 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.400 Miles this last year now being an assistant coach at 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.680 u c L A. Plus he played for uh Rick 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.159 Berry in the usb L. We played against each other, 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:50.080 So we got some good stuff going on with with 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:54.080 Mike Lewis. He'll join me in a moment. We're less 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.200 than a week away from the free agency bonanza, and 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.480 I don't know what to think. You know, this is 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.280 kind of strangely what we've built up to all year 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:07.360 is having nothing to do with actual basketball. Um. I'm 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:10.520 torn on the Kyrie Irving thing because I've been somebody 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:12.920 who's trying to tell people just how talented he is. 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.400 But I had no idea how much of a pain 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:18.440 the ass he was until I talked to some people 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:20.640 that were in Boston and people that have been in Cleveland, 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.240 and they all kind of say the same thing, which is, like, dude, 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:29.000 he's amazingly talented. He's not a leader. And um, he's 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.480 one of those guys that he's smart enough. It's not 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:36.400 like he's Magna cum Latti, like you know, he's a 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.679 bright enough guy, but he thinks he knows everything. So 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.480 he tries to look for, you know, higher meaning for 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:45.759 every little thing you just want to get, like oh, 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.560 just wears people out. And because he was kind of 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.840 brought up in this under Lebron's wing, that's how you lead. 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:57.080 He tries to be Lebron James and Evisceray dudes in film, 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:02.280 and he's not Lebron James. And even Lebron remember he 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.080 when when he lights into dudes, which he didn't do 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:07.680 this year. This year, he would just turn very negative 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.560 on guys. He's he's still been Lebron James and all 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:13.799 those guys have been brought in, you know, to play 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:16.960 with him, whereas you know, Kyrie Irving was brought to 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:19.320 the Celtics and then they played without him, and so 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.320 it's just doesn't have a great feel for the social 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:25.240 jiu jitsu. As a friend of mine says of the moment, 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:27.880 So I'm Kevin Durant, Like, is that the guy I 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.920 want to tie my ship too? Like? I have a 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:37.000 choice of Steph Curry, who's like, look, is Steph easy 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.920 to play with? Maybe not? He takes some crazy shots, 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.880 he turns the ball over. You gotta hide for him defensively, 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:47.040 but as a guy, he's easy. Or you got Kyrie Irving, 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:52.000 who is a better ball handler, is an incredible shotmaker. Differently, 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.000 um but does something is actually better than Steph Curry. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.160 But it's just every day is heavy. It's not that 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.760 much fun. I don't know, I've as I just stay 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.960 in Golden State. Everybody's everybody wants to accomplish all these 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:07.520 things off the basket before you have the best way 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.920 to accomplish things out the BASKETBA floor is win fucking championships. 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.200 Excuse my language if you have kids listening to this, 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:17.960 but this whole idea of you know, if you go 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.000 to New York, you can lots of guys that played 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:21.680 in New York. You see any of them on TV. No, 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:27.200 you know why their team sucks. That's why do I 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.679 see Steph Curry on a bunch of ads? Oakland was 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:36.000 in some big market. Steph Curry is awesome. That's it, right, 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.920 that's it. Lebron James had no trouble getting ads in 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.560 Akron or in Miami. Why because he's Lebron James. He's awesome. 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.800 Russell Westbrook has no problem getting ads. Paul George has 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.360 no problem getting as he played Indianapolis and Oklahma City. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.920 If you're really good and you got a good personality, 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:01.960 you have option options. Like it is just such a 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.120 such a bunch of bullshit that you have to, like, 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.160 you gott to move to New York. Why because rich 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:11.200 Climbing lives in New York? Like all right, Like the 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:16.120 perfect example actually is billionaire Row for the Golden State Warriors. 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:18.440 Why not to New York when all the people with 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.880 all the money, all the game changers, they're right here. 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.240 I hate to be that guy, but all the game 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:29.039 changers in the world are in Silicon Valley. That's where 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.160 the money is. Even in our industry. Like we're all 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.000 just waiting to see when Apple or Facebook or Google 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.359 or Amazon or Yahoo. They just you know, they just 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.480 buy something. They're like, all right, we have f you money. 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:45.039 Here's f you like they do that. They can buy 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.520 all of us ten times over. And you want to 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:51.160 win to New York. That's the media capital of the world. No, 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:53.880 it's not the capital world is in Silicon Valley, Dude, 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:55.640 I hate to I hate to be that guys, like, 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.560 this is not the ES, It's two thousand. All the 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:04.400 money is in San Francisco and all the unknown and yeah, 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.880 there's some pitfalls and played in Golden State. Might not 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.200 be your team whenever they might only had to call 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.920 in you to bail them out. You gotta play both ends. 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.920 Gets a little bit old, Okay, I'll tell you what's worse. 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:18.800 The monotony of losing teaching people who have never won 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.880 a franchise, has never won to win. I just this 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.039 whole idea of like, you gotta go to New York. 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:26.480 Why Jerry Lynn had to go to New York because 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.640 he was a nobody got an opportunity with a team 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.920 that was banged up and a co in Mike D'Antoni. 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.120 You're not jermy Lyne're Kevin Durant. Stay where you are 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:38.240 with a bunch of titles. Have the Last Laugh. By 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.040 the way, you can listen to my daily radio show 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.640 three to six Eastern or twelve three Pacific on Fox 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:47.520 Sports Radio or the I Heart Radio app. Alright, let's 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.040 get you to Mike Lewis. He has just become a 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.040 new assistant coach at U c l A. He played 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:54.760 in Indiana, He coached at Brett Butler, he coached in 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.560 Nebraski coach the Eastern Illinois coach of Texas Tech. He 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:01.000 coaches Stephen F. Austin without fur their doo. Here's my 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.719 discussion with U c l A assistant former Indiana player 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.800 and captain Mike Lewis. All right, let's start at the beginning, right, 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:13.120 Jasper Indiana. Right, that's where you were Mr Basketball in 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.400 the state of Indiana. Um, you're you're like you started 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.400 whooping when like birth. Right, That's that's an Indiana thing. 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.800 You grew up whooping the driveway. Did you have a 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:26.200 half court out back pick? Give me the picturesque Indiana 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:30.960 setting of Mike Lewis's upbringing. Well, I had a basketball 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.719 goal in the the driveway, but I was I was 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:35.960 lucky to have a have a dad that was a 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.840 basketball coach, um in high school. Coach in high school, 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:41.920 and so I was I was lucky enough to tag 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:45.279 along the practices and um games, and so I was 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.120 always I was always in a gym. Um. But yeah, 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.760 I mean everybody in Indiana grows up. Um. You know, 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.600 there's there's hoops everywhere. I mean, if you can, you've 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.160 got a flat side of the building, you can go 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.960 to basketball whoop on it in Indiana. So it's obviously 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.840 a great place to grow up. Um. I was always 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:05.040 around the game. My grandfather coach. Like I said, my 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.520 dad coach. My grandfather became the commissioner of the Indiana 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.160 High School Athletic Association for many years until my junior 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.000 year of high school when he retired. Um my dad 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.000 coached all the way up until my junior year high 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:21.240 school when he became the athletic director um at our 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.520 at our high school. And so I just always around 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.960 the game. UM. Very fortunate from that aspect, probably like 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.640 you just you know, having a dad that that allows 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:32.960 you to develop and grow at your own page as 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.680 a basketball player. And when when when you're allowed to 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.280 grow up that way, you learned to love the game 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.520 and appreciate everything that the game can give you. Okay, 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.680 So your dad was the coach of Jasper, your entire 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:48.520 yours now now we moved, We moved around. Like I 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:51.119 was born in Indianapolis. My dad was an assistant coach 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.960 at Lebanon High School just on the northwest side of 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:59.280 Indianapolis for legendary high school coach named Jim rosen Steele 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.880 who coached Rick Mount way back in the day. And 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:06.280 that's where my dad got his start. And then he 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:10.280 became a head coach Triton Central High School, Lufton High School, 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.160 at Frontier High School, and then we moved to Jasper, 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.840 Indiana when I was going into second grade, and he 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:20.120 became the varsity assistant at Jasper and was that held 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.480 that position when he became the athletic director my junior 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.360 year high school. So he wasn't then he moved around, 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.040 We moved around. I was. I was. I Actually, the 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.320 funny story is I grew up a Purdue fan. When 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.120 I was a little kid, I went to prede basketball 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.280 camps and I worked camps as a counselor all the 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:39.040 way up and you know, until I got into high school. 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:42.440 And and then obviously Jasper from the southwestern part of Indiana, 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.480 and you're in you're in Merston, and I U culture 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.120 and and uh that's when it became pretty apparent I 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.360 was gonna go to Indiana. I had a chance. Why 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.040 did you like Why why did you like Perdue? Because 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.960 everybody else, like Indiana was one of those things. Well, yeah, 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.600 I mean Frontier High School was twenty minutes from Prince 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:03.800 Campas I spent a majority of my younger years up 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:07.000 until second grade, I was in northern Indiana. Um, and 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.280 at that time, like you didn't have you know, ESPN 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:12.200 wasn't big, you didn't you got Channel four, and so 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.600 you saw the games on TV at that time. And 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:18.040 in Indiana you got Perdue in Indiana and on football 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.880 Saturdays you got Notre Dame. So I just grew up 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.920 around pretty basketball up until second grade when we moved 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:29.440 to southwestern Indiana. And uh, you know I was able 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.079 to My dad worked the camps. I would go with him. 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.560 I gotta be a counselor at a young age, and uh, 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:37.520 I just kind of had that and then and then 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.320 obviously things changed as I got older. Okay, so, uh, 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:43.280 you're in high school, your dad, so your dad wasn't 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:48.319 the varsity head coach now he was assistant coach. So 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.960 what And then when when did you start playing varsity? 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.319 I started playing as freshman. I started, um um, as 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.520 a freshman in high school, I played uh my first name, 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.240 I played three quarters of JV one game of arsity. 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.800 Um my second game, I've played one quarter of JB, 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.880 three quarters of varsity, and then I played the rest varsity. 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.319 So I was I was. Actually I actually had a 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.840 teammate high school teammate named Scott Roland, who obviously is 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:17.720 a Major League baseball fame. So he was a senior 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.920 when I was a freshman, and and um, you know, 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:22.480 it was a great good time. A lot of people 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:24.800 don't realize, oh one was what a great basketball player 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.319 he was. He's Namdi, an all star, sent a scholarship 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.000 of Georgia. And then obviously I think he made the 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:33.600 right decision by pursuing baseball. Um, but out standing high 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:39.600 school player. Your childhood hero was who Damon Bailey? Okay, 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:41.960 what town did day? I mean, like, I I know 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.040 the legend of David Bailey and and this is like 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:46.880 that you're gonna have a distinct cutoff between anybody our 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:52.200 age and anybody like five years younger probably doesn't, right, Like, 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.680 I just were just being kind of honest. And it 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:56.640 was because of it is because of the Season on 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.319 the Brink really where when Steve Alford was there, who 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:02.600 was all everything, all anybody could talk about was Damon Bailey. 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:06.000 He committed to Indiana as like a freshman, and uh, 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.000 it was kind of looming over. Everybody's said the damon 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:12.360 Damon Bailey's coming. Um, so so take me through the 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.960 Damon bailthing. He grew up where he grew up in Bedford. 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:20.079 Uh we're actually a small town, um just outside of Bedford, 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.000 but he went to Bedford North Lawrence High School. Um, 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:25.120 I mean it's kind of hard to explain if you 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.040 weren't growing up or we're if you weren't in Indiana 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:29.840 at that time. I mean he was like the Beatles. 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:32.959 I mean everywhere he went, every gym was sold out, 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.240 every game was sold out. Um, he would just get 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.920 mobbed everywhere he went. And a lot of it was, 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.320 you know, because of the Season on the Brink book 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:45.439 and the notoriety that he got um from that when 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.119 coach knight Win watched him as an eighth grader, um, 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.679 but he uh, I mean he and then he had 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.320 a great, great high school career, had had a really 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.679 good college career. But just you know, I mean, who 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.640 can live up to the expectations of what was was 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.680 put on him at that time? But he was he 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:02.440 was everything in anybody in in the n at that 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.320 time you wanted to grow up and and be Damon Bailey. 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.040 And then, um, you know, the Pacers had started to 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.480 get rolling as I got into junior high and so 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.280 you know, then I guess you know, my second childhood 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.440 hero would be be Reggie Miller, which is it's kind 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.240 of ironic now you're sitting sitting on a campus where 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.760 he once walked around. I was this ball boy a 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.120 couple of times because I was. I grew up playing 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:31.040 with with the Hazard boys, um with you know, Doc 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:35.720 Hazard and with Jalil and um Rashid Hazard and so 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.040 Rashid and I would go be ball boys. And like 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:40.000 here here's what people don't know about about Reggie. He 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.040 was an unbelievable college player as a shooter. But they 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:47.600 were terrible. They were massive underachievers, like for for years 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:51.640 they they had so much skill, but he pooh Richardson 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.400 Um Charles Roshlyn like they had his squad, and I 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.680 remember going to like n I T games and I 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:59.480 was like, how are these guys in the n I T. 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:01.480 When they at U c l A. Was just kind 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:03.280 of a it's kind of one of the things that 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.800 gets glossed over a little bit, but that that is so. 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.280 But the n I T was was much bigger at 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.680 that time, you know. But I remember like, this is 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.760 not this is not the sixties, dude, or seventies. I'm 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.000 talking mid eighties. Yeah, so we're talking. We're talking mid 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.520 eighties U c l A in the mid eighties, in 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.760 the in the in the in the in the n 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:29.040 I T against Fresno State in the Red Wave. Um, 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.600 that that's not exactly what they were what they were thinking. 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.520 So well they beat I know, they beat the Hoosiers 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:36.439 and that. But I was I was in Indiana All 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:41.960 Star after I graduated high school, and and we were 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.559 working out in Indianapolis since we're getting ready to play Kentucky, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.240 and um, you know, Reggie was doing an individual workout 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.280 on well there's this little workout facility. I mean, I'm 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:53.839 not even sure it's still there. Was on I U 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.000 P UIs campus, which is where we were practicing, and 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.240 he was kind of finishing up a workout and obviously 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.840 you've got twelve uh Indiana high school players you know 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.760 there and and so we you know, they brought Reggie 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.480 over and introduced this and we actually gotta play you know, 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.720 a small pickup game you know with him. Um you know, 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:13.680 which which I'm sure at that time was a highlight 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.120 of many of our guys, is you know, careers, you know, 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.240 to just step on the floor and play against Reggie 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.520 uh in back in when he was ripping and rawn 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.320 for for the Pacers. So, um, you know, when you 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.920 grew up in Indiana, you're you're not you're a you're 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.760 a produce fan, You're a you're an Indianapolis called sand 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:31.960 and you're you're an Indiana Pacer fan. And so to 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.120 be able to step on the flora with him as 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.560 a high school player at that time, uh, you know, 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.840 it's huge for all of us. Yeah. In fairness, his 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.120 senior year they did win the pac ten that uh pout. 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.920 Richardson was a sophomore that him put Richston got named 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.880 Trevor Wilson, who was like an energizer bunny. Um, Greg 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.160 Foster was a freshman. Jackie the the late Jack Hayley 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:55.240 was there. My boy, Kevin Walker was like a six 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.560 eleven shooter wh would be like a first round draft 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.240 pick as a stretch five nowadays. Uh so they they 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:01.640 had a squad, but there were a couple of years 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.640 there with a little murky when uh you're early on 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.960 when he was at all. Right, So, um, your senior 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.000 year you were Mr Basketball was Gatorade Player of the 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.760 Years at the same as Mr Basketball. Actually I was 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.240 Gatorade Player of the Year. I was runner up on 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:19.200 Mr Basketball. A guy named Kevin a guy named Kevin All. 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.640 He went to Warsaw High School in northern Indiana and 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:26.840 went and played at Southwest Missouri Status now Missouri State 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.280 in the Missouri Valley. UM actually was recruited by Steve 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:35.040 Alford Missouri State. He won Mr Basketball. Um, I came 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:36.960 in second. We had it. There was a really good 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:41.000 player named Roon Cornell's going to Purdue UM that finished 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:45.680 under that and you know, honestly, looking back, Um, there 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.120 was a guy that knew Albany High School, UM that 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.400 may have been the best player in Indiana that year 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.280 and then named Lamont Rowland and he he had gone 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.160 to Ball State, gotten some trouble, went to junior college 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.240 route and then Um finished his career at l s 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.240 U UM. But when you get into practices and you 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.560 get into competing, and you know how it is that 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.440 guy stand out and and Lamont may have been the 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:13.000 most talented player, uh in our class at that time. 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.040 But no, I I was running up. I was, I 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.040 was running up to Mr. Basketball. Not not that it's 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.000 still kind of sticks in my crawl a little bit. 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:24.320 I know. I know so no, no so so, and 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.640 it should here's this is funny. So you know, like 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:30.840 I'll tell you I was. We had we had rankings, 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.440 we had the best in the West rankings. UM and 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.120 a guy who was there's a there's a guy ahead 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.400 of I don't know from San Diego I'd never actually 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.440 heard of. I think he panned out, uh flamed out 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.240 of sending a statement. The guy who's like ranked behind me, 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.720 who I never played against, was Jason Terry. And I 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:53.240 was like, who's Jason Terry from Seattle, Washington? And uh, 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.000 the jet actually committed he was going to you Dub 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.280 and then he changed his mind and went to Arizona. 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:01.240 I remember for a long time, but like, dude, that 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.800 guy I've never even heard of him. Obviously now you know, 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.639 fast forward, I'm an idiot. He's awesome player. Um. And 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:12.240 then for me it was my my second time round 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.600 after I transferred from Notre Dame, I sat out for 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.720 a year. Kansas took Ryan Uh. Ryan Robertson was there, 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.960 and Ryan Robertson was McDonald's All American ahead of me, 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:26.199 and like, look the Magic's roundball thing I got to 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.159 play in. Chauncey Phillips was there, was I was a 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.120 replacement for Chauncey got hurt and their Stephan Marbury. There's 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.040 one of the guy Brian Williams went to Alabama. I 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.320 thought that was better than but Ryan Robertson, like I 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.480 always had like this personal vendetta against him because I 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:42.760 was like, man, how could they take him at Kansas 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.040 instead of me? And then I was like, he's actually 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.399 really good. He played in the NBA. He's actually a 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:57.560 pretty happy there's no question, go ahead, no, you go ahead. 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.320 I've never I've never felt helpless on a basketball court. 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:03.199 And when I had to guard Chouhnson Bill. So the 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.639 first round in the n c A tournament my freshman year. Um, 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.280 I think we're like an a ceed they're a nine seed. Um, 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:11.720 you know, we kind of have a little bit of 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.280 THEU elitist you know, thoughts like who's you know Colorado? 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.280 You know, blah blah blah. Um. Then we go in 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.800 and they smoked us. They smoke us in. Um, you know, 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.199 I mean Chauncey was just like he was just so strong, 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:29.640 so under control. Um, you know, I'm a freshman and 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:31.960 and uh, he just I mean I think he gave 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:33.720 me like thirty four thirty five. I'm still a matter 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.440 of fact, I'm still waiting on some checks from Chauncey 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:38.280 because I think he was about a mid to late 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.040 first round pick and in the n c A tournament 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.280 after he dropped us off that I un he was 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.280 he got into the lottery. So I'm still still hoping 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.000 maybe to meet up with him, maybe he'll give me 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.080 a a little bit of that extra money. I didn't 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.560 feel so bad years later once he, you know, became 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:56.120 the NBA Finals MVP, but I was. I've never it's 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:57.960 a terrible feeling. I'm sure we've all had it, but 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.119 I've never felt more helpless on a basketball court been 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.440 trying to Gordon Chauncey BIPs had played thirty two minutes 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:11.280 only at twenty four points. Uh it does yeah right, Um, 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:15.960 that's funny. That's really funny. Yeah, here's here's my here's 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.400 my here's my Chauncey story was he came out. I'm 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.040 gonna say he was a junior and there used to 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.720 be these events the Pumps would put on at cal 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.439 State Domingus Hills and I don't remember who he usually 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:30.680 played with, but but everyone had heard of Chauncey. He 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:32.600 was like the best guard in the western United States. 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:34.560 And so he came and he stayed at my house, 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.480 and um, and like you know, we played together for 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.720 a weekend. It was it was a good tournament. Maybe 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:42.920 it was for like a week during the summer, and 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:44.520 it was like the first week of summer before you 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:46.080 go to Vegas. He played with us and stayed at 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:47.960 our house. We practiced for a couple of days, and 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.160 I just remember, like my dad was my dad. Yeah, 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.040 Like I always played point for my dad. My dad 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.040 was like, you know, you can let bring it, bring 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.680 it whatever he wants, which was my dad's wave of saying, 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:02.840 like he's so much better than you because and and 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.280 and in fairness, like Chauncey was, you know, and he 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.280 was a scoring guard where I was obviously if it's 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.000 even at that level like a facilitator. But um, but 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.280 I I just I remember playing and it's it's one 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.000 of those you have those moments when you're on a 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.680 basketball floor and you and you're just like, oh, that 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.479 guy is gonna play in the NBA. And and I 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.000 grew and and and in southern California, like you had 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.480 a sense that you know, was Paul Pierce or Ricky 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.080 Price or I grew up? JR. Henderson was on my team, 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.360 Miles Simon. You always thought like those guys are really good. 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.000 But there was a there was like this calm elegance 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.159 to the way he played that is a very unique style. 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.399 Like other guys, they're just a I when I was 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.320 in Georgetown, when I was it Notre Dame, we played Georgetown, 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.639 and like I ressumely just a physical free because he 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:50.200 was fast and quick. Um, he wasn't. He wasn't very good, 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:51.760 but he was fast and quick, and so it just 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:53.879 made him like holy sh it, you just hope he misses. 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.159 But there was there was no kind of uniqueness to 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.359 his study was just a blur. Whereas Chauncey, he was 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.840 like sixteen years old and he just he looked he 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.280 felt like an NBA veteran, like he knew everything about 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.280 everywhere where everyone was supposed to be. He was so any, 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:13.600 made shots, he was so good. So, uh, your Indiana 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:18.359 Senior U All Star Team, Like, what's that for people 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:20.280 who don't know what that's like? What's that like? As 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:22.199 an honor? And then how do you who do you 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:26.639 play against? But it's it's like the culmination of your 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.240 high school career is that you know you got the 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:31.919 you get Mr Basketball's name, and then you get normally 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:36.000 have twelve Indiana All Stars, UM, and you know it's 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.440 a huge It's just a huge deal in Indiana to 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:40.680 finish your high school career. And in Indiana all started 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:42.320 to be able to say you were an Indiana All Star. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.720 And back when I was in it, it was a 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:47.880 two week deal. Like you you met up, you practiced 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:49.720 four a week, you had a little exhibition game. You 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.720 would play the Kentucky All Star Team, UM, and we 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:56.560 played them in Lexington on UK's campus. And then you 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:58.520 would have another week of practice and then you would 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:00.720 come to Indianapolis and we played him, and then you 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:03.600 would play the Kentucky All Star team again, UM, and 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:05.280 we played him in Market Square Arena. It was just 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:07.840 it was a huge series, a lot of pride between 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:10.880 both states and UM, he was just a great honor 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:12.919 and I think it's something that you know, I still remember. 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:15.800 I'm sure anybody that's been a part of that, that 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.119 experience is something that they remember. And the ones that 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:20.879 got maybe shinned a little bit. I think it's some 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:24.280 of that sticks sticks with them for some time. Um. 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:26.760 You know that they they hold on too, you know, 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:29.359 and you just like the young guy at Belmont, at 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:32.119 Dylan Windler that just got you know, it was the 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:34.000 first round draft pick. He did not make the indian 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:36.480 All Star Team. And I just read an article the 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.240 other day about about the mistake that was made on him. 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:41.080 So and I think it's something that he used his 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:43.720 motivation as he got into college to prove some people wrong. 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:46.359 So it's just unbelievable on it. Um, you know, to 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:48.680 grow up in the state where basketball means so much 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:51.359 and then to be recognized, UM, at the end of 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:52.840 your career as an Indie All Starting to get to 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:57.720 compete and represent your state against Kentucky. Um. Some of 0:22:57.800 --> 0:22:59.720 it is some of it is hindsight though, right, Like 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:02.440 some times guys become better players. Like that's one of 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:04.399 the things we do a bad job in the media of. 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:06.359 Like I don't know what Dylan win To looked like 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:09.080 when he was a high school senior. But some guys 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:11.320 just get They just get better, and some guys don't get. 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:13.720 Some guys top out, or some guys go mental, or 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:16.399 some guys discover girls or you know, women when they 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:21.920 get to college. You know. Um, So early hyph doesn't 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.200 help these kids. The early high you know, almost hinders 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:26.200 some of these kids. Like when I was when I 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:28.080 was an assistant coach at Brother we would tell the 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:30.520 Gordon Hayward story all the time. Like at the end 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:32.800 of Gordon Hayward's junior year of high school, he wasn't 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:36.080 considered one of the top twenty players in the in 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:40.359 his grade in Indiana, and three years later he's the 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:42.960 eighth pick in the world. Like, I mean, how do 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:47.720 you you know? But he wanted physically matured, um, and 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:49.960 he just he worked on his game. He developed, he 0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:52.080 was in the he was in the right situation where 0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:54.640 he experienced some success. He was in the right situation 0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:58.040 where he was able to play uh and contribute right away, 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:01.120 and then you know, things just snball and he became 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:03.199 an eighth pick in the draft, and means it's an 0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:05.720 unbelievable story that in three years you're not even top 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:08.440 twenty in your own state, in your own age group, 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:11.680 and three years later, you you know, you're you're a 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:14.240 lottery pick. Um, you know. So, I think a lot 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:16.480 of that early hype sometimes can can hurt kids, and 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:19.000 then you know other kids, like people develop a different 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:21.160 times and they just can continue to work and work 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:23.879 at Fonso McKinney's, you know, with the with the Warriors, 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:26.280 everybody likes to talk about offs and McKinney. I was 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:29.560 on the staff at Eastern Illinois when we recruited. I 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:31.760 was one of the coaches that was part of the 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:34.080 staff that didn't He wasn't even in our top eight 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:36.680 or nine his freshman year at Eastern Illinois. You know, 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:39.640 we we knew we had this kid that had unbelievable athleticism. 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:42.040 He was an unbelievable kid. You're trying to figure out 0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:44.920 ways the plame and and Um you know, now he's 0:24:45.240 --> 0:24:46.920 contributing on a team that went all the way to 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:49.960 the NBA Finals. So everybody's got their unique story. I 0:24:50.800 --> 0:24:54.360 loved reading about those, um but like what you said, 0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:56.879 people develop at different times and mature a different times, 0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:59.520 and some people work and some people sit back and 0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:03.000 and think about how good they are. Totally no. I 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:05.400 mean I I used that with my my own son, 0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:08.680 where he wasn't an All Star in baseball last year 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:12.720 and this year he is, and you know, and he 0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:14.600 even has some ups and downs, and I was like, look, dude, 0:25:14.600 --> 0:25:16.240 you gotta you gotta look at how much you've improved, 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:19.119 you know. And last year I would play him up 0:25:19.280 --> 0:25:21.240 in a you not a high level of you, but 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:23.680 like I basically couldn't let him handle the ball because 0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:25.920 he lose it so much. One because he just coming 0:25:25.920 --> 0:25:28.000 from Connecticut to California's such a big jump. And then 0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:30.840 he's playing against older kids and he just didn't have it. 0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:33.880 So now he's able to, you know, bring the ball 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:37.440 up against older competition and do a decent job, you know, 0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:38.960 and then when he plays against his own age roup, 0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:41.199 he's pretty good, and you know, it's it's but it's 0:25:41.240 --> 0:25:42.960 hard because You don't want to kill a kid's confidence. 0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:44.440 But the other hand, you want to teach them that 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:46.679 it's it's not about how good yards about how much 0:25:46.760 --> 0:25:48.960 better you have gotten since yesterday, how much better you 0:25:49.040 --> 0:25:51.919 can get kind of tomorrow. All Right, you show up 0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:58.440 at India. This is nineteen nineties six, right, Um, I 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:01.240 think you only have like I remember that team, you 0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:04.400 only had one senior, right, wasn't Harris Mazinevitch? The only 0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:06.120 like senior you have in that team? Is a really 0:26:06.280 --> 0:26:10.080 young team for a for a Bob Night team, wasn't it. Yeah? 0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:11.840 We had we had a group of juniors and a 0:26:11.920 --> 0:26:15.000 group of freshmens that, um, you know, I think we're 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:19.520 heavily relied on and um, you know at that time, 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:23.160 you know that the junior class was very highly regarded. Um, 0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:27.520 you know with Andre Patterson and Neil Reid and Charlie Miller. Um, 0:26:28.160 --> 0:26:31.720 you know, Jason Collier was in Jason Collier was in 0:26:31.800 --> 0:26:35.399 our class who was a McDonald Lall American, Um, A 0:26:35.560 --> 0:26:39.480 j Guyden was very under recruited but ended up being 0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:41.119 the best player. I mean you know that as a 0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:44.080 senior was the first team All American. But um, we 0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:46.840 started three freshman and two juniors our first game that 0:26:46.960 --> 0:26:50.359 year against Connecticut and in the Hoosier Dolman from a 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:54.879 thirty five thousand. So um, it was you know, from 0:26:54.920 --> 0:26:57.320 me going up in Indiana and watching that and being 0:26:57.440 --> 0:26:59.120 being able to be a part of that and obviously 0:26:59.160 --> 0:27:02.040 getting a uh getting the start in your first collegian 0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:05.399 game was what's pretty exciting for me? What's that like 0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:07.359 to to run out you got candy stripe pants on 0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:12.760 a white Indiana jersey, like like, honestly, I mean, do 0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:14.720 you what is that feeling like to be in the 0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:18.639 locker room and to see your number candy stripe pants 0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:20.720 and realize and you're running out at the Who's your 0:27:20.760 --> 0:27:24.520 Dome against Yukon. Yeah, I mean it's it's one of 0:27:24.600 --> 0:27:27.880 the really cool experiences, you know, of my life because 0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:30.320 you you grow up, you know, it's it's like, you 0:27:30.400 --> 0:27:32.720 know what what you w envision growing up out here? 0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:35.080 You know, you you envision growing up out here and 0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:37.800 then running out in Pauli in the U c l 0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:40.720 A uniform like it's the same thing just where I 0:27:40.800 --> 0:27:42.679 grew up. Um, but yeah, it was. It was an 0:27:42.720 --> 0:27:45.359 unbelievable experience in the Union at that time. Recruiting was 0:27:45.480 --> 0:27:48.119 much different if you had an opportunity. If you're in 0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:50.159 Indiana and you had an opportunity to play it on you, 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:53.399 that's where you're going. And it always really UM no 0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:57.520 other options, you know, like they had first rider refusal, 0:27:57.760 --> 0:27:59.359 you know, much like I think U. C l A. 0:28:00.280 --> 0:28:02.600 UM has had out here for for a number of 0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:04.720 years and something that that we need to get back 0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:07.800 to UM now that that we're out here and UM, 0:28:08.240 --> 0:28:09.919 it's it's just kind of where you grew up. That's 0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:12.200 what you saw, is what you were used to UM, 0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:14.840 and so obviously it was a man a lot to 0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:18.600 me to put put the uniform on and represent UM Indiana. 0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:22.000 That's joke, man, That's that's really really cool. UM. What 0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:26.760 was did? Did did coach and I do at home? Visit? No? Man, 0:28:27.080 --> 0:28:29.040 My my recruitings, I might have been one of the 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:32.680 easiest recruits of all time. Like I started getting recruited 0:28:32.720 --> 0:28:35.679 by them my sophomore year of high school. And when 0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:38.240 I stay recruited, they invited myself and my dad, my 0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:40.960 high school coach, to a game UM, and we went 0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:44.840 up to a game UM. And then my junior year UM, 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:46.840 I kind of had like I lived an hour and 0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:50.040 a half away from from Bloomington. So I kind of 0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:52.600 could come up anytime I wanted, any any game I wanted, 0:28:52.640 --> 0:28:55.400 And it got to a point, you know, I would 0:28:55.440 --> 0:28:57.520 I would take a buddy, or you know, I take 0:28:57.560 --> 0:29:00.680 a girlfriend or you know, sometimes my dad would go 0:29:00.760 --> 0:29:04.160 with me. And they were playing Minnesota late late in 0:29:04.200 --> 0:29:07.880 the year and back from Minnesota the Shawn Leonard and 0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:10.920 I was, uh until called up and told him I 0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:13.880 was coming to the game, and uh, you know, Coach 0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:15.640 Dock he was like, hey, why don't you bring your 0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:18.120 mom and dad up? You know, So mom and dad 0:29:18.160 --> 0:29:20.800 came with me on this trip and and uh they 0:29:20.840 --> 0:29:23.040 got beat by Minnesota, which did not happen, you know, 0:29:23.120 --> 0:29:26.320 I mean, Indiana didn't lose in Thesembly hall very often 0:29:26.400 --> 0:29:30.000 and during that time period, and and uh so we 0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:31.760 were just gonna go home, like we know how things 0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:35.120 you know, could get after a lawsuit, and we're gonna 0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:37.640 go home, and and Dock he came out and said, no, no, 0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:39.160 coach wants to talk to you. Why don't you guys 0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:41.920 stick around? And so I remember sitting down in what 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:44.479 they called the players lounge, and there was no there 0:29:44.560 --> 0:29:46.200 was no lounge part of it. It was just kind 0:29:46.240 --> 0:29:48.080 of a room with the TV and three chairs, and 0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:51.240 we sat in there for what seemed like an hour, 0:29:51.360 --> 0:29:54.880 and and Coach and I finally walked in with his 0:29:55.000 --> 0:29:58.920 long time media buddy bought him on and the dock 0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:01.440 he was there, and Coach had a sweater off, and 0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:03.960 his collar was half up on one side and down 0:30:04.040 --> 0:30:06.680 on the other and here all disheveled, you know, And 0:30:07.600 --> 0:30:10.000 he sat down and uh, he said, Mike, I'm going 0:30:10.120 --> 0:30:12.320 hunting tomorrow. Do you know anywhere I can shoot birds 0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:15.400 down and around Jasper? And I'm sixteen years old, Doug, Like, 0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:17.600 I don't. I've never been hunting in my life. Like 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:19.760 I had no idea, I said, you know, so I 0:30:19.880 --> 0:30:21.280 kind of like Coach, I don't know. You know, I 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:23.280 got some buddies that do some hunting. I can probably 0:30:23.280 --> 0:30:25.040 help you out, but I really don't. I wouldn't know 0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:27.360 where to tell you to go. And he kind of 0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:29.320 took a deep breath and he said, you want to 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:32.680 play ball here? And I said yeah. And he stood 0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:34.600 up and he shook my mom and dad's hand, shook 0:30:34.680 --> 0:30:36.560 my hand, put his hand on my shoulder and said, 0:30:36.560 --> 0:30:39.400 all right, boy, I see you later. I walked out 0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:42.640 and that was that was my dad. That was my 0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:45.040 commendment story. We were my mom and dad. We walked 0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:48.080 all the way out to the car, and uh, we 0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:49.920 get to the car and my dad started up and 0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:52.120 before we take off, like nobody has said a word 0:30:52.200 --> 0:30:54.120 up until that point, He's like, what just happened? I said, 0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:57.160 I think I'm going to Indiana and and uh that 0:30:57.720 --> 0:30:59.480 was it late in my junior year of high school 0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:03.240 and and um, you know, so that was I don't 0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:05.920 think I was really heavily recruited by them, but it 0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:09.280 worked out for everybody in the end, So that was 0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:10.800 my recruiting. So I think that probably one of the 0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:13.640 easiest one, you know, he did get. He did get 0:31:13.640 --> 0:31:17.600 Brian Evans on the phone. Call um, and I said, yeah, 0:31:17.600 --> 0:31:18.920 you wanted kind of hit him with the same thing, 0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:21.680 you won't play a ball here, and and Brian said, 0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:23.080 I'd like to talk to my mom and dad, and 0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:25.680 I think I think coach said I'll call you back 0:31:25.680 --> 0:31:28.520 in thirty minutes. So I call him back in thirty minutes. 0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:30.960 It was done, and Brian Evans was an NBA player 0:31:31.000 --> 0:31:33.880 and Big Ten Player of the Year. So that's just 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:35.200 how it was. Back there. It was. It was a 0:31:35.280 --> 0:31:38.760 different time that recruiting services were now. Um, you know, 0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:42.360 the TV was different, social media wasn't it wasn't around, 0:31:42.480 --> 0:31:46.000 and so I think recruiting was much more regionalized. All right, 0:31:46.000 --> 0:31:47.440 I'll tell you my U c l A story now, 0:31:47.600 --> 0:31:50.400 So because there are u c l A people that 0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:52.160 think I still like have it in for U c 0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:56.160 l A. So, uh, my, my my dad had U 0:31:56.240 --> 0:31:59.320 c l A season tickets since really I think not 0:31:59.480 --> 0:32:03.520 Farmers when Walt Hazard was there, and so we would 0:32:03.520 --> 0:32:05.160 go and what he would do is he would you know, 0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:07.760 either giveaway or sell a lot of the kind of 0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:09.720 average games. And then we always go to the Arizona game. 0:32:09.720 --> 0:32:12.440 They played Duke one year when there was both their 0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:16.560 top ten teams. Was unbelievable atmosphere. Um, and we would 0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:19.040 go and and you know, if they played Oregon State 0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:20.960 was good back then Arizona State, we go to it. 0:32:21.040 --> 0:32:22.720 You know, we go to a couple of weekend games, 0:32:22.720 --> 0:32:27.479 a couple week night games, and um, as I kind 0:32:27.520 --> 0:32:30.120 of got and then Herrick took over and and my 0:32:30.240 --> 0:32:33.280 dad was pretty close with Herrick, and he coached in 0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:35.720 a in a select kind of all star game against 0:32:35.720 --> 0:32:38.760 the Russians. He coached Mitchell Butler and Tracy Murray part 0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:42.920 of an unbelievable recruiting class that went there, and so 0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:45.200 they never And then my sister was a cheerleader there 0:32:45.400 --> 0:32:50.280 and she's uh was she's ninety, she's like five years 0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:54.160 older than me really, so I was always there, Like 0:32:54.240 --> 0:32:58.120 I didn't go to practice uh much every once in 0:32:58.160 --> 0:33:00.240 a while, but you know, it's like forty five. It's 0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.720 our from my house, but I go to some games 0:33:02.840 --> 0:33:04.520 and the way it's kind of same thing with like 0:33:04.720 --> 0:33:08.320 unofficial visits. So it might have been because we had 0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:12.040 season tickets. It was likely because I wasn't that good, right, 0:33:12.120 --> 0:33:14.640 like I was a because I stayed back. I was 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:16.840 like a late bloomer. And most of the guys I 0:33:16.960 --> 0:33:19.360 grew up playing with were a class of ninety four, 0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:22.160 which is an awesome class in the state of California. 0:33:22.200 --> 0:33:28.280 That's Toby Bailey, Jarah Henderson, Miles Simon, Gilanni Gardner, Kristin Johnson, 0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:32.680 a bunch of dudes. Um. So I remember like they 0:33:32.760 --> 0:33:36.080 weren't they didn't offer me. And the summer before when 0:33:36.120 --> 0:33:40.160 I was rising junior, the first day of summer is 0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:42.280 when they came out with like initial offers back then. 0:33:42.360 --> 0:33:44.560 So they offered Toby Bailey first day of summer. He 0:33:44.600 --> 0:33:47.520 took the scholarship. And the way it worked then was 0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:50.240 we had there was there was like three different big 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:53.560 AU programs. A r C Mid Valley that was like 0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:56.560 Cameron Murray played on that team that was like mostly 0:33:56.680 --> 0:33:59.680 kids from the valley and surrounding areas. There was Slamming 0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:02.880 Jam Victoria Park that was Ricky Price and Toby Bailey 0:34:03.320 --> 0:34:06.000 and later Tremaine Folks who went to Cal then President State. 0:34:06.400 --> 0:34:08.160 And then there's our team which was you know team 0:34:08.200 --> 0:34:11.920 Orange County, and we had Jared Harrison from Bakersfield. We 0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:15.880 had Adam Walton that's that's uh Bill's oldest son. And 0:34:15.920 --> 0:34:17.640 then we had a bunch of Orange County kids as well. 0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:19.080 It's a couple of l A kids that were like 0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:21.239 under the radar, and so there was kind of a 0:34:21.360 --> 0:34:24.480 rivalry there, right, So like like we didn't like, we 0:34:24.560 --> 0:34:26.840 didn't like Toby then, you know, as it was, it 0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:28.680 was weird, like you know, in every tournament, in the 0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:32.040 semifinals and finals of every tournament, it's the same guys 0:34:32.080 --> 0:34:34.360 you're playing against. And this is since like sixth grade, 0:34:35.000 --> 0:34:37.080 like No, I didn't fucking like Toby Bailey. I didn't like, 0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:39.279 you know, the the Obannon boys who were there, like 0:34:39.520 --> 0:34:41.239 we those are We wanted to beat them, like now 0:34:41.239 --> 0:34:43.279 we're supposed to play in the same team, like so weird. 0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:47.239 So Miles got pissed and and then you know, he 0:34:47.320 --> 0:34:50.359 ends up going to Arizona and so and I kind 0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:53.520 of wanted, like, you know, like basketball U c l 0:34:53.520 --> 0:34:56.480 A Basketball on TV is big, but there was times, 0:34:57.040 --> 0:34:59.120 you know, it's locally just got swallowed up by the 0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:02.000 Lakers and other off and I don't know, the facilities 0:35:02.000 --> 0:35:04.320 weren't great back then, and so I kind of was 0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:05.800 I had a want. I always want to play a 0:35:05.920 --> 0:35:09.840 duke um. So I went to a game during my 0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:13.960 junior year against cal As u c l A. Cow 0:35:14.280 --> 0:35:17.080 and all these other guys that were seniors that had 0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:20.520 committed to going there. We're there. So j R. Henderson 0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:23.640 is my teammate, and Kristin Johnson's my teammate. Like we 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:24.960 go to the game together. We meet up at the 0:35:25.000 --> 0:35:29.000 game and my seats are so fucking high that the 0:35:29.040 --> 0:35:31.080 concession man won't go up there, Like, you know, I 0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:32.880 want to be a big baller and go to the player, 0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:34.600 you know, get the player tickets, even though we had 0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:36.839 season tickets. And I like told my dad, like, don't 0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:39.440 worry about it. I got there. The teams leaving me tickets, 0:35:40.320 --> 0:35:44.560 so they like so they like scramble and they get 0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:46.279 me seats next to the rest of the guys. I 0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:48.440 was like, what the funk, I'm way up. This is bullshit. 0:35:49.120 --> 0:35:50.840 So now I'm sitting with these guys and then they 0:35:50.880 --> 0:35:53.040 send some manager out at halftime to listen to Herrick's 0:35:53.040 --> 0:35:56.359 halftime speech and they don't get me. And I mean 0:35:56.400 --> 0:35:58.560 it was like the and my sisters like performing at 0:35:58.560 --> 0:36:01.680 the half or whatever, and uh. I was like, okay, 0:36:01.719 --> 0:36:03.239 I guess I know where I stand there, you know. 0:36:03.960 --> 0:36:07.840 So then pass forward to summer of my That next summer, 0:36:07.880 --> 0:36:09.480 some of my senior I'm at that I'm at the 0:36:09.600 --> 0:36:13.680 Las Vegas Hilton and Jim Harrick calls me. He's like, Dougie, 0:36:14.760 --> 0:36:16.520 you know you always wanted to be a Ruin and 0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:18.279 I was like, and I was kind of a dick. 0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:20.600 Then I said not then, let against now, and I 0:36:20.719 --> 0:36:23.480 was like, well, coach and all honestly, I always wanted 0:36:23.480 --> 0:36:25.279 to play a duke, but they took Wojo last year 0:36:25.320 --> 0:36:27.520 they took Wojo so and Wojo is a year ahead 0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:30.640 of me, and so he said, well, we're offering you 0:36:30.640 --> 0:36:32.719 a scholarship to u c l are like, you won't 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:34.160 play ball for us, And it was kind of same 0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:36.040 sort of question, you know, and I'm sure he thought 0:36:36.680 --> 0:36:39.319 this is a layup kid grew up dreaming of playing 0:36:39.320 --> 0:36:40.879 at u c l A. And I was like, well, 0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:42.080 you know, I want to take a visit. I want 0:36:42.080 --> 0:36:43.480 to think about it. I want to see what else is, 0:36:43.600 --> 0:36:45.319 you know, I mean, I love how you guys play. 0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:47.759 And they had taken a commitment from a game name 0:36:47.800 --> 0:36:49.680 illusing me man who was like six four or six 0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:52.480 five your class, like best player in America type kid. 0:36:53.040 --> 0:36:56.120 And he was like, you know, he'll never qualify. He's 0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:57.680 not a really u c l A guy, but he's 0:36:57.680 --> 0:37:00.080 so talented. We gotta take and we take five. We 0:37:00.160 --> 0:37:03.279 played five guys, five best players U c l A 0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:05.680 high post offense, not the only offense, just the best. 0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:12.480 So there was so I was so bitter over not 0:37:12.680 --> 0:37:15.839 being recruited whatever, And you know, they wrote me Mark 0:37:15.880 --> 0:37:18.719 Godford did a great job and Lorenzo Romar did a 0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:20.320 great job, and they called me I'll never forget. So 0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:23.640 I take an unofficial up there, and it was still 0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:26.680 kind of weird because again, like Toby was a freshman there, 0:37:27.480 --> 0:37:31.880 and um, uh yeah, I'd like I barely knew tayased 0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:33.839 and he was a senior on that team. Ed was there, 0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:38.880 was a senior, Charles was there, and I just I 0:37:38.920 --> 0:37:41.160 don't know. I just I didn't get a great vibe. 0:37:42.120 --> 0:37:46.000 And so I was like, so I call coach Herrick 0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:49.680 and tell him I'm going to Notre Dame and Godfrey 0:37:49.760 --> 0:37:52.640 calls me. He goes, I'm gonna promise you something. Now 0:37:53.320 --> 0:37:56.560 we play. We play all like December twenty two of 0:37:58.640 --> 0:38:00.239 not Only were gonna come in and whoop your ass. 0:38:00.560 --> 0:38:03.400 He's like, but it's gonna be so fucking cold that 0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:05.759 you're gonna beg us to come back. And I was like, 0:38:06.960 --> 0:38:08.320 he goes, he goes, but you know, we love you, 0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:10.360 and my sister had been his babysit or whatever, so 0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:14.560 uh yeah, I mean and then my when I when 0:38:14.600 --> 0:38:18.520 I left Notre Dame, um, they recruited me, but they're like, look, 0:38:18.960 --> 0:38:20.880 we're gonna take Baron if we can get Barren, and 0:38:20.920 --> 0:38:25.080 if we don't get Barren, right, So so I'm not 0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:26.879 bitter over that one, because I mean, if you take 0:38:26.960 --> 0:38:29.719 me ahead of Baron Davis, you're the worst evaluator of town, 0:38:30.320 --> 0:38:33.000 you know, all of sports. But I mean, honestly, the 0:38:33.040 --> 0:38:36.120 first time around, it was my choice. And they took 0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:39.520 a dude named Brandon Lloyd, who was who should have 0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:43.560 gone to Oaklhom State from Oklahoma. They didn't get staff. 0:38:43.560 --> 0:38:45.200 They thought they were gonna get staff, and if I 0:38:45.360 --> 0:38:47.880 was probably their fallback, like, well we'll get Gottlieb and 0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:50.160 I went to Notre Dame, and so they took Brandon Lloyd, 0:38:50.560 --> 0:38:53.360 who never really panned out at u c l A. Anyway, 0:38:53.400 --> 0:38:55.840 that's my U c l A story, all right, So 0:38:56.640 --> 0:39:01.080 let's get to let's get to eu UM. I looked 0:39:01.080 --> 0:39:04.400 it up, and you guys started out thirteen and one, right, 0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:07.319 like your only loss was to Kentucky. You guys beat 0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:12.080 Notre Dame, you guys beat Duke Um, you guys beat Princeton. 0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:13.919 Was good. Back then. You talked about the Yukon game. 0:39:14.200 --> 0:39:17.719 You'd beat Yukon, like you guys were rolling. What was 0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:19.560 it like, You're like a freshman that you had to 0:39:19.560 --> 0:39:22.880 be like this is easy, this is cake. When you 0:39:22.960 --> 0:39:24.719 get that it's like when you get all that hype 0:39:24.760 --> 0:39:27.680 as a young player, like then you know you've you've 0:39:27.719 --> 0:39:29.960 got to be able to stay stay in the moment 0:39:30.000 --> 0:39:32.680 and try to get better and better. But um, you know, 0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:35.719 it's like like any major program when you're when you're 0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:38.080 winning at a high level at a place like Indiana, 0:39:38.080 --> 0:39:40.360 and when you're winning at a high level, uh you know, 0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:42.640 the place like U C. L A. Or Caroline or 0:39:42.719 --> 0:39:46.720 Duke or Kentucky Like, um, it's everything that you imagine. 0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:50.239 You know, it can be like you're you're walking on water. Um, 0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:52.960 everywhere you're going. You walk in a restaurant, you know, 0:39:53.040 --> 0:39:55.560 people are standing up and clapping and wishing you well 0:39:55.680 --> 0:39:59.040 and and all those sorts of things, and um, you 0:39:59.080 --> 0:40:01.879 know it's it's that's what I think is so cool 0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:05.239 about the college basketball experience. Like, um, you know, I 0:40:05.280 --> 0:40:08.400 I tell kids in recruiting all the time, like I 0:40:09.280 --> 0:40:13.480 absolutely loved my experience at Indiana. Now every day it 0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:16.080 wasn't teddy bears and rainbows, you know, but it's it's 0:40:16.120 --> 0:40:18.000 not it doesn't matter where you go, it's not going 0:40:18.040 --> 0:40:21.400 to be um, but my experience prepared me for for 0:40:21.520 --> 0:40:23.840 what I'm doing now. And I want the guys that 0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:27.080 that I get the opportunity to coach and be around. 0:40:27.120 --> 0:40:30.160 I want them to feel about their experience the way 0:40:30.200 --> 0:40:33.000 that I feel about mine. I think if they do that, um, 0:40:33.840 --> 0:40:36.480 you know, then then my job as a coach has 0:40:36.520 --> 0:40:39.800 been successful. And I love my my time at Indiana 0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:41.879 part of you know, Indiana basketball is a major part 0:40:41.920 --> 0:40:44.440 of who I am, down to my core, um, and 0:40:44.520 --> 0:40:45.920 I loved it. I would do it again in the 0:40:46.080 --> 0:40:49.360 art beating. And that's that's I understand the way that 0:40:49.400 --> 0:40:52.320 I feel doug about about my time And that's what 0:40:53.440 --> 0:40:55.160 you know, That's what I want these guys here at 0:40:55.200 --> 0:40:56.759 u c l A to feel about U c l 0:40:56.840 --> 0:40:59.480 A and their experience here when when their time here 0:40:59.600 --> 0:41:01.480 is done. That sold. I want the guys that I 0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:04.200 coached at Butler to feel about Butler you know now 0:41:04.280 --> 0:41:07.360 that that that they're away and there's nothing cooler about, 0:41:07.719 --> 0:41:09.840 you know, being a coach. And then you know, getting 0:41:09.880 --> 0:41:13.360 phone calls, um from former players asking for help for jobs, 0:41:14.080 --> 0:41:16.800 called from former players invite you to their weddings, or 0:41:17.120 --> 0:41:19.359 calling you you know and talk to that hey coach 0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:21.839 on you know, my wife's due to have a baby 0:41:21.880 --> 0:41:23.839 boy here in three months you know those are those 0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:26.520 are the really cool experience and that's that's the experience 0:41:26.560 --> 0:41:28.680 that I had where I played, and that's what I 0:41:28.760 --> 0:41:32.640 want for these guys that I come in contact with. Yeah, 0:41:32.880 --> 0:41:36.839 it's it's um, it's it's really and we I'll tell 0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:39.120 you the thing about social media, and you don't have 0:41:39.239 --> 0:41:40.920 to agree with you you can you feel free to 0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:44.480 discuss it. But I do think that we whether it's 0:41:44.560 --> 0:41:47.160 expectations and I got to be cautious of this with 0:41:47.239 --> 0:41:51.840 my own kid, you know, expectations or uh, you know, 0:41:52.320 --> 0:41:54.960 coaches are always the bad guys and see he is 0:41:54.960 --> 0:41:57.520 always the bad guess whatever it is, like, I don't know. 0:41:57.719 --> 0:42:00.560 I still think it's a very high percentage, but I 0:42:00.680 --> 0:42:03.320 don't know if it's nearly as higher percentage of people 0:42:03.480 --> 0:42:07.399 that get it. Like, look, everybody takes the floor. It's 0:42:07.480 --> 0:42:11.319 like real dudes like me, like real thoughtful, reasonable people. 0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:13.520 You take a basketball floor, and you can pick out 0:42:13.560 --> 0:42:15.560 which guys could really play in the NBA Like you 0:42:15.680 --> 0:42:17.680 and I probably thought, like, you know what if we 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:21.279 got the right situation where somebody needs our skill set, 0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:23.640 somebody enjoys our leadership, you know, you put me in 0:42:23.680 --> 0:42:25.160 the right spot, like Yeah, why couldn't I be the 0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:26.879 third point guard in the NBA. It's like no doubt, 0:42:27.040 --> 0:42:28.800 Like I know what I could do, but you just 0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:31.399 you gotta be You gotta get one team, one guy 0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:33.279 at one team that believes in you, that gives you 0:42:33.360 --> 0:42:35.440 the right opportunity, the right amount of minutes in the 0:42:35.480 --> 0:42:37.880 summer league, signs you to a guarantee. You hang on 0:42:38.000 --> 0:42:39.480 for a year, and then you kind of become an 0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:42.719 NBA player. But but you know, most most of us 0:42:42.800 --> 0:42:44.520 look around and like you can tell who's the fucking 0:42:44.560 --> 0:42:49.319 pro and who's not. Right, Um, there's this sense where 0:42:49.360 --> 0:42:51.719 if you're not gonna make it as an NBA player 0:42:51.760 --> 0:42:55.279 at your current school, goes somewhere else, And so there's 0:42:55.360 --> 0:42:58.480 not I think as higher percentage of people that truly 0:42:58.640 --> 0:43:04.440 understand and in enjoy the experience. During the experience, am 0:43:04.480 --> 0:43:07.080 I am I making sense? Like like that's what you created, Like, oh, 0:43:07.120 --> 0:43:08.960 you're not playing well, fucking go the coach is never 0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:10.719 gonna play you. They can recruit over. You leave, go 0:43:10.800 --> 0:43:14.640 to another school. And part of the part of the 0:43:14.680 --> 0:43:18.120 amazing part about college basketball, this guy comes in and 0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:19.719 you and I got to start as freshman. So this 0:43:19.840 --> 0:43:21.239 is different but a lot of guys that come in 0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:23.319 and they don't get the role they want and they leave, 0:43:23.360 --> 0:43:26.040 Whereas it's way better if you earn the role you 0:43:26.160 --> 0:43:29.759 want at the place you originally enrolled in. Mm hmm. 0:43:30.600 --> 0:43:34.120 It's no, you're you're you're dead on. Like I'd tell 0:43:34.200 --> 0:43:37.800 people all the time, like like college, like and and 0:43:38.239 --> 0:43:42.760 you've got to have good adults around the young person. 0:43:43.000 --> 0:43:46.080 But when you're talking to a recruit, like they're so 0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:49.359 self absorbed in what they're doing, Um, they all want 0:43:49.360 --> 0:43:50.879 to go the n B A and and a lot 0:43:50.920 --> 0:43:52.120 of them, you know, when you're at a place like 0:43:52.239 --> 0:43:53.600 U c A, a lot of them you know that 0:43:53.719 --> 0:43:56.680 may be in their future. Um. But but you also 0:43:56.760 --> 0:43:58.520 got to look at college. It's it's it's not a 0:43:58.600 --> 0:44:01.040 three or four year decision. This when when you're choosing 0:44:01.080 --> 0:44:04.360 the university, it's a thirty or forty year decision in it. 0:44:04.600 --> 0:44:07.200 And it I believe that if whether you're at U 0:44:07.280 --> 0:44:09.080 c l A for one or two years and you're 0:44:09.080 --> 0:44:10.600 able to go to the NBA, or if you're here 0:44:10.640 --> 0:44:13.000 for four years, because you're always going to fall back 0:44:13.480 --> 0:44:16.799 on that time period in your life and you're going 0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:18.960 to go back to those people to help you with 0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:22.880 whatever's next after basketball is over. So that's why I 0:44:22.960 --> 0:44:24.719 say it's a third y or forty year decision. And 0:44:24.760 --> 0:44:27.600 I think that's why, Um, I'm so lucky to be 0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:29.719 at a place like u c. L A. Because not 0:44:29.840 --> 0:44:32.560 only does it have the basketball tradition and and all 0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:35.520 the great players and the coaches and and everything that 0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:37.600 comes with it, but are you also sitting on this 0:44:37.760 --> 0:44:41.520 campus with all the unbelievable people that are associated with 0:44:41.560 --> 0:44:44.440 this university and all the alumni are so I mean, 0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:46.560 that's that's those guys, those guys, and those guys are 0:44:46.560 --> 0:44:50.080 super tight, like even the ones you know, the Harrick guys, 0:44:50.160 --> 0:44:53.160 the ones that played for laugh Like, they still get together. 0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:56.320 I mean, look, you got Bob Myer's the GM of 0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:59.479 the freaking Warriors, right, there's a connection. You've got people 0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:02.400 in you know, Hollywood types. It's it's really interesting how 0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:05.920 but we have such a narrow site of what college 0:45:06.280 --> 0:45:08.480 well represents. Like if you go to social media, you 0:45:08.600 --> 0:45:11.640 ask people who cover the game. In my position, college 0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:14.120 basketball is only there is a way station for the pros. 0:45:14.200 --> 0:45:17.320 Like that's not it, dude, You get it's the people 0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:21.000 you're around are gonna be the powers in business. Wherever 0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:23.480 you go to, schools have a bigger reach like you 0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:26.240 go to Indiana. Like when you got done playing Indiana, 0:45:26.239 --> 0:45:27.920 if you didn't want to become a basketball coach, you 0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:30.160 could have gone into sales anywhere you wanted in the 0:45:30.160 --> 0:45:34.080 state because you were point guarded. I you M all right, 0:45:34.120 --> 0:45:36.040 so and that that's that's what it gets overlooked, and 0:45:36.120 --> 0:45:38.000 that's that's what we gotta That's what we gotta get 0:45:38.040 --> 0:45:40.400 back to. That's why I'm excited to be at at 0:45:40.440 --> 0:45:42.560 a place like this because everything it has to offer, 0:45:42.680 --> 0:45:45.680 not just from a basketball standpoint, but just like anything 0:45:45.760 --> 0:45:48.240 you want to accomplish, you can get done here because 0:45:48.320 --> 0:45:50.879 the people that haven't been here or are currently here, 0:45:51.160 --> 0:45:54.200 you know. And I think that's a special opportunity. Um, Okay, 0:45:54.320 --> 0:45:57.759 tell me about Ben Howett never talked to me when 0:45:57.760 --> 0:45:59.680 I was a player. I mean, I wouldn't go to 0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:01.440 nothing it recruited like she never talked to me as 0:46:01.480 --> 0:46:04.839 a player. Okay. I've competed against his teams twice when 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:07.239 I was at Nebraska, Okay, and got nothing more than 0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:10.000 the handshake. On the handshake client, I'm at the NBA 0:46:10.080 --> 0:46:12.800 Top D Camp two weeks ago, and I got U 0:46:12.880 --> 0:46:14.600 c l l U c l A on my chest 0:46:14.880 --> 0:46:16.719 and we chatted it up for five minutes with his 0:46:16.800 --> 0:46:18.920 staff and my staff. You know, just because I got 0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:20.520 U c l A on my chest, I mean I've 0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:22.200 been around the guy, competed against the guy, and I 0:46:22.320 --> 0:46:24.480 was just a dude, right, But now I got U 0:46:24.560 --> 0:46:26.399 c U c l A on my chest, and now 0:46:26.920 --> 0:46:28.480 you know, it's like what you said, the connection to 0:46:28.520 --> 0:46:30.800 the part of the family these guys are tightened, and 0:46:31.160 --> 0:46:33.040 it was really cool to be able to talk with 0:46:33.120 --> 0:46:37.160 him for a few moments a couple of weeks ago. Um, okay, 0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:40.239 so take me to the You are famous for a 0:46:40.320 --> 0:46:43.279 lot of things. You're probably most famous for the guy 0:46:43.360 --> 0:46:45.880 who stared down coach night, right. It was? It was 0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:49.520 what year was It was Super Tuesday and you're playing 0:46:49.680 --> 0:46:54.200 Michigan and you I've remember, I've seen the play multiple 0:46:54.280 --> 0:46:57.520 times where somebody from Michigan drives to the basket and 0:46:57.800 --> 0:46:59.839 you're you should be to help man to take the charge. 0:46:59.880 --> 0:47:02.440 Instead you're like fronting in the low post and a 0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:06.400 guy drives right up your butt and lays the ball in. Okay, 0:47:06.480 --> 0:47:08.560 So was that was that one of the was that 0:47:08.600 --> 0:47:10.319 one of the five boys. Was that like Dane five 0:47:10.360 --> 0:47:12.120 who drove up your like I'm trying to trying to 0:47:12.160 --> 0:47:16.160 think years, No, it was all. His first name was 0:47:16.280 --> 0:47:20.520 Robbie I forget his last night. Robbie Reid. Yeah, Robbie Read. 0:47:20.719 --> 0:47:22.319 I believe Robbie Read. His dad was the coach at 0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:24.600 b y U. So Robbie Reid drives up and you're 0:47:24.840 --> 0:47:27.480 and you don't see the ball, and and coach Knight 0:47:27.719 --> 0:47:30.520 lays into you. Give me, what what year is this? 0:47:30.600 --> 0:47:33.440 What year are you in school? I'm a sophomore. I'm 0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:36.200 a sophomore. Um, we're like you said, we're playing Michigan, 0:47:36.280 --> 0:47:40.480 and you know I was, I was out of position 0:47:40.560 --> 0:47:43.279 by our defensive rules. But you know we had you know, 0:47:43.360 --> 0:47:45.319 we had walked through the day before and I mean 0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:47.560 Liston was really good. I mean they had you know, Robbie, 0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:54.520 they had Michiel Baston tractor trailer, UM Maurice Taylor, UM 0:47:54.760 --> 0:47:58.719 Louis Bulllock. I mean they were good now and was expensive, 0:47:58.960 --> 0:48:03.640 expensive team right there. They I believe I believe they 0:48:03.640 --> 0:48:08.200 were over the over the cap for that was not 0:48:08.280 --> 0:48:11.120 a cap friendly team. That's that's really what happened. They 0:48:11.160 --> 0:48:14.560 weren't put on n C approbation. They were over the cap. 0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:19.680 So that's that's right, Gerard Ward. Hold on, I'll tell 0:48:19.680 --> 0:48:21.239 you real quick. Gerard Ward was on that team. This 0:48:21.280 --> 0:48:24.399 is the famous grod Ward story. Okay, Groard Ward visits 0:48:24.480 --> 0:48:25.920 u c l A. He's like the number one wing 0:48:26.000 --> 0:48:31.759 in the country and uh he visits u c l A, and, um, 0:48:32.239 --> 0:48:36.080 the Obandon guy boys are like the nicest dude, classiest 0:48:36.160 --> 0:48:41.560 dudes ever. So Charles O'Bannon um chose him around campus. 0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:44.319 And this is back when u c l A, which 0:48:44.360 --> 0:48:49.399 just was picking dudes right, and so Gerard Ward uh 0:48:49.960 --> 0:48:51.840 would would tell people that he's I'm going to be 0:48:51.920 --> 0:48:53.919 better than Michael Jordan like and he believed it coming 0:48:53.960 --> 0:49:00.400 out dead unbelieved it. So um so drod word. He 0:49:00.560 --> 0:49:02.840 gets done with his visit u c l A and 0:49:02.920 --> 0:49:05.120 he's like, tells Charles e Van. You could ask Charles 0:49:05.160 --> 0:49:09.160 when he comes to ones events, Hey man, uh man, 0:49:09.280 --> 0:49:10.840 thanks for being so nice to me. I don't know 0:49:10.880 --> 0:49:12.479 why you were. I'm gonna come and take your job 0:49:13.000 --> 0:49:15.920 so whatever. Like that was like his last words to 0:49:16.040 --> 0:49:17.640 the u c l A players, like, thanks for being 0:49:17.719 --> 0:49:19.160 nice to me, but I was gonna come take your job. 0:49:19.480 --> 0:49:22.799 And that team was that was. That was after they 0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:25.520 fired the staff, right because they got caught cheating, but 0:49:25.600 --> 0:49:29.160 it was they still mean lou Bullock, Robert Trailer, growd Ward, 0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:34.239 Maceo Baston, Robbie Reid, uh, Brandon Smith, the transferred played 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:37.480 for my brother. Um. That was that was. That was 0:49:37.480 --> 0:49:40.600 an expensive team. Okay, so Robbie Reid drives up your backside. 0:49:40.680 --> 0:49:43.080 You're not in health. Oh I'm not in health. But 0:49:43.120 --> 0:49:45.879 we and walked through they you know, they're running America's player, 0:49:46.160 --> 0:49:49.680 you know, the cross screen down down. Yeah, so they're 0:49:49.719 --> 0:49:51.640 you know, Louis Bullocks and a cross screen on the 0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:54.080 baseline for tractor trailer and then he's getting a dawn 0:49:54.160 --> 0:49:58.080 screen um from Maurice, you know. And so you know 0:49:58.080 --> 0:49:59.759 when walks through, I just kind of bumped the cutter 0:49:59.840 --> 0:50:04.280 and and Chase whoever was mimicking Louis Bulock up the middle, 0:50:04.440 --> 0:50:06.040 you know, to make sure I'm there when he catches 0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:09.320 for the three, and uh, you know, Coach explains to 0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:12.520 me that tractor trailers like two seventy pounds and he's 0:50:12.520 --> 0:50:15.680 gonna knock me across, you know, into the bleachers if 0:50:15.719 --> 0:50:18.719 I don't you know, really chuck even, you know, and 0:50:18.760 --> 0:50:21.799 then just chase, like hell up to the top. Make 0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:23.960 sure you're there on the catch, you know, for Louis. 0:50:24.600 --> 0:50:27.840 And so the play comes. I'm sniffing it out. So 0:50:27.960 --> 0:50:30.239 I turned my back and I mean, back then you 0:50:30.280 --> 0:50:32.680 could you could really physically bumped Cutters Like now you 0:50:32.760 --> 0:50:36.000 can't really do it. And so I to two forms 0:50:36.040 --> 0:50:38.360 in the tractor's chest. I'm trying to bump him, and 0:50:38.400 --> 0:50:41.440 then I'm just gonna take off run as well. Robbie 0:50:41.480 --> 0:50:43.200 beats Uh, I forget you. I don't even know who 0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:45.040 was garden. Robbie just beats him, and he's laying it 0:50:45.160 --> 0:50:49.400 up right over right over my shoulder. And so Coach 0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:51.759 gets up and informs me that I was in the 0:50:51.800 --> 0:50:56.719 wrong defensive position. And um, I said, excuse me. We 0:50:57.320 --> 0:50:59.959 see we see the street, we see it on TV. Noble, 0:51:00.040 --> 0:51:03.879 what was what do you really say? Uh, I'm not sure. 0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:06.360 I think We've probably exchanged a few pleasant tries and 0:51:06.560 --> 0:51:08.160 and we moved on. You know the thing about the 0:51:08.239 --> 0:51:10.840 whole of Mint dougas like that happened. It was captured 0:51:10.880 --> 0:51:13.840 on TV because it was Coach. It it became a 0:51:14.000 --> 0:51:17.360 huge story. Um, we go down the other end, there 0:51:17.480 --> 0:51:19.960 was a a whistle, So we come out to a 0:51:20.040 --> 0:51:22.440 TV time out and that's you know, when what what 0:51:22.600 --> 0:51:25.880 you're talking about happens. Um, And I said out. He 0:51:25.960 --> 0:51:28.719 takes me out for about a minute and a half. UM. 0:51:28.960 --> 0:51:30.680 He talked to me very calmly on the bench, and 0:51:30.719 --> 0:51:32.200 then I went on and played, and then I never 0:51:32.280 --> 0:51:35.960 really talked about it again. Uh. And And honestly, from 0:51:36.040 --> 0:51:39.600 that point on, I think, um, at least from my 0:51:39.920 --> 0:51:44.640 my standpoint, our player coach relationship grew immensely um for 0:51:44.920 --> 0:51:47.840 over the next two and a half years, UM, because 0:51:50.080 --> 0:51:52.279 and I don't know if it was that or if 0:51:52.880 --> 0:51:55.080 he just felt, like, you know, he had somebody that 0:51:55.200 --> 0:51:57.279 he could he could trust and believe to help try 0:51:57.320 --> 0:51:59.080 to lead the team the way that he wanted it done. 0:51:59.120 --> 0:52:01.400 And I don't know, but from that point on, our 0:52:01.480 --> 0:52:04.480 relationship was wasn't unbelievable over the next two and a 0:52:04.480 --> 0:52:07.600 half years in my my career. But UM, you know, 0:52:07.680 --> 0:52:10.520 it's a it's a it's a thing that happens unfortunately 0:52:10.560 --> 0:52:12.040 in a in the heat of a moment with with 0:52:12.640 --> 0:52:15.360 some competitive guys. We've all we've all seen it. It 0:52:15.400 --> 0:52:17.839 would have been better if it would have been at 0:52:17.880 --> 0:52:20.440 half time and behind closed doors. Yeah, but it it 0:52:20.560 --> 0:52:23.520 happened when it happened, and him and I never talked 0:52:23.520 --> 0:52:27.160 about it again. You were his last point card, right 0:52:27.280 --> 0:52:29.359 because because we were getting ready to play you guys, 0:52:30.040 --> 0:52:34.799 We were getting ready to play you guys, get by Pepperdine. Yeah, well, 0:52:34.800 --> 0:52:37.759 you're bringing up all the great memories. No, I'm I'm well, 0:52:37.800 --> 0:52:41.799 I mean okay, so so I'll we'll get it. Then 0:52:41.880 --> 0:52:44.360 we'll do that best memory of playing it. I you, 0:52:47.640 --> 0:52:49.959 I just I mean, I I don't know. I can't 0:52:50.000 --> 0:52:52.040 name one. I think, just like I said, the way 0:52:52.080 --> 0:52:54.000 that I feel about my like sitting here today in 0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:57.040 my office at U c l A looking back and 0:52:58.120 --> 0:53:00.080 the feeling that I have when I think about my 0:53:00.200 --> 0:53:04.080 experience in those four years, that's the best memory, um, 0:53:04.320 --> 0:53:07.239 And and what the position that it put me in 0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:11.680 to be sitting here today. Um, The people that I 0:53:11.960 --> 0:53:14.160 interacted with, the people that I was able to meet 0:53:14.800 --> 0:53:18.759 and make connections with, and just like the overall foundation 0:53:19.880 --> 0:53:22.600 to do what I'm doing now is is the number 0:53:22.640 --> 0:53:27.839 one memory? Um? You were at the Neil Read practice though, right? 0:53:28.280 --> 0:53:31.399 That was was that your freshman year? That's my freshman year. Yeah, 0:53:32.280 --> 0:53:34.759 do you do. You don't like at the time that 0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:36.839 it happened, do you remember it being as big because 0:53:37.000 --> 0:53:40.719 the video didn't come out til years later? Right, Yeah, yeah, 0:53:40.760 --> 0:53:43.879 when the time that happened, Like, I don't remember it, um, 0:53:45.239 --> 0:53:48.560 you know, being you know, something just crazy, like oh 0:53:48.640 --> 0:53:51.480 my god, you know, like um and the tape you know, 0:53:51.640 --> 0:53:54.759 came out going into mun state tournament my senior year, 0:53:54.840 --> 0:53:58.000 so almost three and a half years later. Um, you 0:53:58.080 --> 0:53:59.960 know that, like I touched on earlier, when you're play, 0:54:00.000 --> 0:54:03.960 you're you're sol you're so self absorbed, um about how 0:54:04.040 --> 0:54:08.799 you're playing, Um, whether or not coaches on you or um, 0:54:08.960 --> 0:54:11.320 you know, how things are going, you know on campus, 0:54:11.480 --> 0:54:14.000 or how your girlfriend's doing or you know, you're you're 0:54:14.040 --> 0:54:16.440 just so worried about you that you know, if it 0:54:16.560 --> 0:54:19.480 didn't directly involve you, sometimes you just don't. You don't 0:54:19.520 --> 0:54:22.239 pay me that much attention to it. And unfortunately, when 0:54:22.280 --> 0:54:24.240 you're when you're in those things and you're you're practicing 0:54:24.280 --> 0:54:27.160 a hundred times a year and you go through the 0:54:27.200 --> 0:54:29.160 course of your career and you've got four D plus 0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:32.560 practices plus all your weight sessions and your workout. Um, 0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:35.600 you know, if it didn't really directly involve you. I'm 0:54:35.640 --> 0:54:37.840 not sure much how much of an inprint it it 0:54:38.000 --> 0:54:43.440 made on you. One thing that that coach Night taught 0:54:43.520 --> 0:54:47.480 you that you still use to this death. Do your job. 0:54:49.000 --> 0:54:52.359 Just do your job, like, don't worry about anything else. Um, 0:54:52.719 --> 0:54:54.040 you know, do your job. And that was one of 0:54:54.320 --> 0:54:56.000 the things that he left me with when I was 0:54:56.080 --> 0:54:58.959 a senior, when you called me in about three quarters 0:54:59.040 --> 0:55:02.120 away through my senior year and I told him I 0:55:02.200 --> 0:55:05.839 wanted to coach, you know one day, and uh, he said, 0:55:05.920 --> 0:55:08.440 just do your job. He said, don't worry about um. 0:55:09.480 --> 0:55:13.279 Don't don't go into any opportunity and think it's beneath you. Uh. 0:55:13.440 --> 0:55:15.239 If your first job is to sweep the floor and 0:55:15.280 --> 0:55:17.880 then be the best, you know, floor sweeper in the country, 0:55:18.280 --> 0:55:20.920 and it's gonna lead to your next opportunity, and so 0:55:21.080 --> 0:55:23.759 on and so forth. And he's never been more more 0:55:23.880 --> 0:55:25.800 righting on anything he's ever said. Like I've tried to 0:55:25.840 --> 0:55:28.239 get jobs, Like I've reached out to people and tried 0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:30.160 to get jobs throughout my career and I've never gotten 0:55:30.200 --> 0:55:33.480 any of them. Every job I've I've ever gotten, um, 0:55:34.600 --> 0:55:36.239 you know, kind of kind of they came to me 0:55:36.520 --> 0:55:39.160 or you know, through some kind of mutual person that 0:55:39.640 --> 0:55:42.120 you know, brought my name up. But I've never gotten 0:55:42.120 --> 0:55:44.879 a job that I went after. The jobs that i've 0:55:45.160 --> 0:55:47.719 I've always gotten its kind of come fum my way. 0:55:47.840 --> 0:55:50.880 And and uh, I think that has happened because of 0:55:51.000 --> 0:55:53.200 the just doing my job, whatever it is. Just try 0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:54.720 to do your job and the best of your ability, 0:55:55.160 --> 0:55:56.839 and if you do it well enough, and then your 0:55:56.880 --> 0:55:59.839 next opportunity is gonna come your way. You get them 0:56:00.000 --> 0:56:02.239 playing And we played against each other in the usb L. 0:56:02.480 --> 0:56:07.200 Rick Barry was your coach. What was he like? Obviously 0:56:07.200 --> 0:56:09.440 he's one of the greatest players to ever played the game. Um, 0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:14.160 you know he was, I think, Um, you know, Rick 0:56:14.760 --> 0:56:17.480 Rick was an interesting character because, like I was, I 0:56:17.600 --> 0:56:19.640 was all fired up to play for Rick. Obviously it's 0:56:20.040 --> 0:56:22.279 one of the great coaches and um, you know, but 0:56:22.360 --> 0:56:24.400 when you're dealing with with guys in the U s 0:56:24.440 --> 0:56:27.440 BL like, sometimes things don't come as easily to us 0:56:27.760 --> 0:56:30.560 as it did, you know, to him, And and I 0:56:30.680 --> 0:56:33.640 think he would get frustrated with that at times. But um, 0:56:33.719 --> 0:56:36.000 it was a great experience. I mean, obviously, you know 0:56:36.200 --> 0:56:37.960 it was different than anything I was used do you 0:56:38.040 --> 0:56:40.000 I was going from Indiana. We were flying on private 0:56:40.040 --> 0:56:42.759 planes and staying in in great hotels and now you're 0:56:42.800 --> 0:56:45.920 on the six am flight, um back in the economy 0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:49.480 and you're staying at a motel six or something and UM, 0:56:50.120 --> 0:56:52.279 you know, so it's just an overall different experience for 0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:55.759 me and UM, but it was. It's just part of 0:56:55.800 --> 0:56:57.960 your story, you know that you you you stacked those 0:56:58.000 --> 0:57:00.040 experiences and those stories on top of each other, and 0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:01.960 I kind of make sure who you who you are, 0:57:02.080 --> 0:57:05.359 and UM, it was a fun time. I'd never Um. 0:57:06.200 --> 0:57:07.520 It was the first time I ever came off a 0:57:07.560 --> 0:57:09.440 ball screen. Like, we didn't run ball streams in Indiana. 0:57:09.440 --> 0:57:12.400 We ran up motion offense coach with hated ball screens, 0:57:12.440 --> 0:57:15.080 and um, so it was different for me, you know, 0:57:15.160 --> 0:57:16.840 being a point guard and trying to learn how to 0:57:16.960 --> 0:57:19.080 play off a ball screens and make all the region 0:57:19.800 --> 0:57:22.320 and U you know, I do know. There was first 0:57:22.360 --> 0:57:26.600 places to wake up in four Mier, Florida at that time. Yeah, 0:57:26.640 --> 0:57:28.040 it was nice. It was nice down there. We actually 0:57:28.080 --> 0:57:29.840 stayed there was some Oklahoma STI this is one of 0:57:29.880 --> 0:57:33.000 those things that like guys should know. So we're playing 0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:36.160 for the Oaklhomas, Oklahoma Storm and Enid, Oklahoma, and we 0:57:36.240 --> 0:57:40.400 had like five Oklahoma stake guys. And our announcer was 0:57:40.400 --> 0:57:42.480 getting Robert down, who's like has a radio show in 0:57:42.520 --> 0:57:45.520 Stillwater and he hooks us up there some Oklahoma state 0:57:45.520 --> 0:57:48.800 alone has got a condo in Santa on Santa bell Island, 0:57:49.360 --> 0:57:51.920 And so we came down. We played the team in 0:57:52.000 --> 0:57:56.320 Sara Sota uh Roy Jones team, then we played you guys. 0:57:56.720 --> 0:57:58.479 Then we played you guys on back to back nights, 0:57:58.920 --> 0:58:01.880 and then we played Broy Jones team, and then we left. 0:58:01.920 --> 0:58:03.880 It was like four games. We might have had one 0:58:03.960 --> 0:58:06.280 day off. Anyway, we stayed in Santa Belle Island. We 0:58:06.320 --> 0:58:09.320 were like, this is unbelievable. This is so great. Um, 0:58:10.080 --> 0:58:11.840 who is the who is the best Who's the best 0:58:11.920 --> 0:58:16.520 player on your team that year? By the way, I'm 0:58:16.560 --> 0:58:18.320 looking at you your playing cards, a buil, Do you 0:58:18.360 --> 0:58:20.280 have any of your playing cards? I have one of 0:58:20.320 --> 0:58:22.560 your playing cards here. I'm not sure I even I 0:58:22.640 --> 0:58:24.640 didn't know I had one. I didn't know I had one. 0:58:24.720 --> 0:58:26.560 You know, the best the best experience about the Florida 0:58:26.600 --> 0:58:29.200 Sea Dragons was um, you know, talking about connections of 0:58:29.240 --> 0:58:32.800 where you where you were. Um, there was a a 0:58:32.880 --> 0:58:36.680 guy named Hute Tindler who just passed away this past year. 0:58:37.240 --> 0:58:39.840 Um was a longtime coach down in that area at 0:58:39.880 --> 0:58:43.120 at a smaller college. Uh. And he had a beach 0:58:43.160 --> 0:58:46.280 house and he had like he had like three bedrooms 0:58:46.360 --> 0:58:48.800 up top, and he had converted like the basement lower 0:58:48.880 --> 0:58:52.680 level floor in the two one bedroom apartments. And we 0:58:52.840 --> 0:58:55.880 were staying at like a courtyard. You know. The whole 0:58:55.880 --> 0:58:57.680 team was just you know, you're in a courtyard. You 0:58:57.760 --> 0:59:01.640 got a roommate, you know. And uh, he he offered 0:59:01.720 --> 0:59:04.000 me to come stay out at his his beach house 0:59:04.080 --> 0:59:06.880 in one of the apartments UM down below where he stayed. 0:59:07.560 --> 0:59:11.040 Um and gave me an old beat up red truck 0:59:11.120 --> 0:59:13.320 that he had that he wasn't used. So instead of 0:59:13.360 --> 0:59:15.680 having to drive in the in the minivans from the 0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:18.920 courtyard to do everything with everybody else, I actually got 0:59:18.960 --> 0:59:21.480 my own place out out of four Myers Beach and 0:59:21.480 --> 0:59:24.320 it was it was a great, great experience. But I 0:59:24.800 --> 0:59:27.120 couldn't I couldn't tell you who I didn't know. I 0:59:27.200 --> 0:59:29.240 had a player's card, Doug, I'm not sure who our 0:59:29.280 --> 0:59:31.960 best player was. You don't remember any team like, dude, 0:59:31.960 --> 0:59:33.400 We I had it. We had a squad we had 0:59:33.440 --> 0:59:36.160 I renewable. He played in the NBA, had a squad, 0:59:36.200 --> 0:59:37.640 a bunch of guys you knew, Like I went down 0:59:37.800 --> 0:59:39.360 and played with a bunch of guys that that I 0:59:39.480 --> 0:59:43.160 didn't know. Um and I mean I we got robbed 0:59:43.200 --> 0:59:44.880 one night down there. So I've tried to block out 0:59:44.880 --> 0:59:47.880 a lot of those memories from out there. Well you 0:59:47.920 --> 0:59:51.400 got robs. Oh we we went to uh we went 0:59:51.480 --> 0:59:54.400 to a nightclub and we were flying out the next 0:59:54.440 --> 0:59:58.320 morning for some some trip over some road trip. And um, 0:59:58.560 --> 1:00:00.320 I think we had just gotten our page X and 1:00:01.040 --> 1:00:03.120 and uh so we went to a there was a 1:00:03.200 --> 1:00:05.800 concert at this nightclub, and we all went to this 1:00:05.920 --> 1:00:08.640 nightclub and we left. We left early, a little bit 1:00:08.680 --> 1:00:12.000 before the concert was over. And uh yeah, we got 1:00:12.480 --> 1:00:16.800 we got jumped in the parking lot and uh there 1:00:16.920 --> 1:00:19.520 we two shots were fired through the front windshield of 1:00:19.560 --> 1:00:22.000 a of an Astral mini van and we had to 1:00:22.040 --> 1:00:23.680 turn that in the next morning as we're going to 1:00:23.760 --> 1:00:25.920 hit the airport. So there's nothing like turning in a 1:00:25.960 --> 1:00:28.520 mini vandom to rick Berry with two bullet holes through 1:00:28.520 --> 1:00:31.880 the front windshield. Let even know that everybody's okay. So 1:00:33.480 --> 1:00:35.800 it was a great experience. I have no I had 1:00:35.840 --> 1:00:39.320 no idea like we had. I mean, we had Willie Burton, 1:00:39.920 --> 1:00:43.680 we had whose ninth pick of the draft. I mentioned 1:00:43.720 --> 1:00:46.800 I renewable um. We had. We had a good and 1:00:46.880 --> 1:00:48.400 then we had the Oaklahoma state guys as well. We 1:00:48.480 --> 1:00:50.920 had my dad told me, and I think I might 1:00:50.960 --> 1:00:52.800 have said this in the pod. My dad told me. 1:00:53.360 --> 1:00:56.840 I remember we were doing training camp and we had 1:00:56.880 --> 1:00:58.680 Bubble Wells and lead the country and scoring use the 1:00:58.680 --> 1:01:01.760 second round pick of the Mavericks. I remember my dad 1:01:01.840 --> 1:01:05.760 said like, hey, there's always a reason. And I go, 1:01:06.280 --> 1:01:07.880 He's like, there's always a reason these guys are in 1:01:07.920 --> 1:01:11.000 the NBA. And he's like, he's like, you know, like 1:01:11.120 --> 1:01:14.040 with you, it's like you mentally you're shooting. It's like 1:01:14.120 --> 1:01:16.200 but sometimes if somebody eats their way out of the NBA, 1:01:16.880 --> 1:01:21.479 some people, you know, it's it's women, it's drugs, it's 1:01:21.760 --> 1:01:25.720 you know, they're gambling. It's like something. And I swear 1:01:25.760 --> 1:01:28.280 to god, we had every we had a guy that checked. 1:01:28.360 --> 1:01:31.760 We had somebody checked one of those boxes. I'll throughout 1:01:31.840 --> 1:01:33.480 we're like, we're like, damn, why is that guy not 1:01:33.640 --> 1:01:36.040 playing still playing playing in the NBA? And then you 1:01:36.080 --> 1:01:37.600 hang around him for a week and you're like, oh, 1:01:38.440 --> 1:01:43.360 oh he's on drugs, no doubt, of course. Uh okay, 1:01:43.400 --> 1:01:46.680 so then you play then you played over what did 1:01:46.680 --> 1:01:50.160 you play overseas? I went to UM, I went over 1:01:50.240 --> 1:01:54.800 to Belgium. Um, and I was in uh what was 1:01:54.840 --> 1:02:03.240 it to Liam Belgium? Some that was I was there. 1:02:03.720 --> 1:02:05.600 I'm trying to think. I've been a few places. I 1:02:05.680 --> 1:02:07.200 guess I got a lot of things going on right 1:02:07.240 --> 1:02:09.080 I'm trying to get a house in my family. We've 1:02:09.080 --> 1:02:10.840 got some things going on out here right now. Done. 1:02:10.880 --> 1:02:14.200 But um in the age, I was in the Age Belgium, 1:02:14.720 --> 1:02:18.720 and we went out there and had a you know, 1:02:18.960 --> 1:02:20.840 I had a contract. I felt like it was decent, 1:02:20.960 --> 1:02:26.160 and we we played one game. Go through training camp, 1:02:26.240 --> 1:02:29.440 we play game. I got eighteen, um, and you always 1:02:29.440 --> 1:02:31.640 compare yourself to the American on the other team, right, 1:02:32.000 --> 1:02:34.080 So the American I guarded on the other team, he 1:02:34.160 --> 1:02:36.400 had thirteen. They beat us on the last second shot. 1:02:36.440 --> 1:02:39.160 I get called in the next morning and I'm sitting 1:02:39.160 --> 1:02:44.160 around this this conference table and in this office, and um, 1:02:44.560 --> 1:02:47.640 the coaches in there. Uh, the president that I had 1:02:47.680 --> 1:02:49.480 been introduced to was in there, and then some other 1:02:49.520 --> 1:02:52.400 guy who I don't know who he was, UM there 1:02:52.440 --> 1:02:54.680 and there and they're speaking French and then they were 1:02:54.720 --> 1:02:56.640 speaking English to me, and then they speak French and 1:02:56.640 --> 1:02:58.360 then he wished to me, and I was like, this 1:02:58.600 --> 1:03:00.800 is not gonna go well, like you just tell right, 1:03:01.400 --> 1:03:03.440 And so they informed me that they were releasing me. 1:03:03.920 --> 1:03:08.520 UM that day after one game and they they had 1:03:09.120 --> 1:03:12.680 UM informed me that they had signed another point guard 1:03:13.400 --> 1:03:15.960 and come to find out, it was Michael Huger, who 1:03:16.280 --> 1:03:20.640 is now the head coach at Bowling Green. And Michael 1:03:20.680 --> 1:03:22.600 had been like the he had been like m v 1:03:22.720 --> 1:03:25.480 P or first team All League UM in the in 1:03:25.600 --> 1:03:28.520 that league the year before UH and had had some 1:03:28.680 --> 1:03:31.640 problems with his physical with his team. My team was 1:03:31.720 --> 1:03:34.760 kind of new to the top division. UM, so they 1:03:34.880 --> 1:03:38.000 cut me and signed Michael Huger, and I was I 1:03:38.160 --> 1:03:41.480 was out outro and I just remember I landed UM 1:03:41.560 --> 1:03:44.520 and about two or three days later, UM, all this 1:03:44.640 --> 1:03:48.160 September eleven, stuff happened and I was out out of that. 1:03:48.280 --> 1:03:49.640 You know what, Like, I know what I want to do. 1:03:49.720 --> 1:03:52.240 I'm not a pro. I'm not gonna play in the NBA. 1:03:52.800 --> 1:03:54.800 It would have been a great experience. I know what 1:03:54.880 --> 1:03:57.280 I want to do. UM, And so I reached out 1:03:57.280 --> 1:03:58.640 to coach Nidi was in the source of year in 1:03:58.720 --> 1:04:01.160 Texas Tech, and he said, hey, you come down here 1:04:01.240 --> 1:04:03.520 next year and be a grad assistant, you know, And 1:04:03.600 --> 1:04:09.160 so I think for a year, I went wide, started 1:04:09.240 --> 1:04:11.840 as a text tech as a grad assistant. I was 1:04:11.880 --> 1:04:15.240 a grad assistant two years at Texas Tech, and then I, uh, 1:04:15.920 --> 1:04:18.680 my first Division one job was Stephen F. Austin. Yeah, 1:04:20.120 --> 1:04:23.400 full time assistant Stephen F. Auston, huge, huge money. I 1:04:23.760 --> 1:04:25.720 told my wife, I said, hey, you know, the hardest 1:04:25.760 --> 1:04:28.320 thing in coaching is getting that first opportunity to get 1:04:28.360 --> 1:04:30.640 on the road and recruit. Everybody wants recruiting the experience, 1:04:30.720 --> 1:04:33.000 and as a young guy, you're like, you know, listen, 1:04:33.120 --> 1:04:36.040 like I can develop relationships. I just need an opportunity, 1:04:36.400 --> 1:04:38.760 you know. And and uh, finally I was giving an 1:04:38.760 --> 1:04:41.160 opportunity to get on the road. And I remember going 1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:43.800 back to my wife and telling, hey, you know, I 1:04:43.880 --> 1:04:47.120 got the job full time. Do you want assistant twelve thousand, 1:04:47.240 --> 1:04:50.800 five hundred and a FOURD tours you know, and and 1:04:51.000 --> 1:04:52.840 but but we made it. Then, we've made the big time. 1:04:52.880 --> 1:04:55.360 We're finally in, you know. And and sometimes that's what 1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:57.760 it takes me. He just need an opportunity and and uh, 1:04:58.160 --> 1:05:01.880 I've been very fortunate ever since. Um, when you were 1:05:01.920 --> 1:05:05.960 at Tech, was Beard on the staff then? Yeah, Chris was. 1:05:06.200 --> 1:05:09.480 Chris was an assistant coach. Chris was actually, um, kind 1:05:09.520 --> 1:05:12.160 of the the guy that helped me get um the 1:05:12.280 --> 1:05:15.160 job as Stephen F. Austin. He had worked for Danny 1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:18.760 Casper as an assistant when he first got it got started, 1:05:18.960 --> 1:05:23.080 and Danny had reached out to Chris about um, you know, 1:05:23.200 --> 1:05:25.000 meaning the young guy to fill a spot, you know, 1:05:25.080 --> 1:05:29.120 in August. And and so Chris, uh gave me my 1:05:29.240 --> 1:05:32.240 name and and Danny reached out and where he went 1:05:32.320 --> 1:05:34.240 from there. So you know, Chris is kind of really 1:05:35.600 --> 1:05:38.880 the guy that got that ball rolling for me. Did 1:05:38.960 --> 1:05:40.400 you did you have any idea he would be this 1:05:40.480 --> 1:05:43.720 kind of coach? No? I did. I mean it's it's 1:05:43.720 --> 1:05:45.640 hard to like everybody like, oh yeah, I can see it, 1:05:45.720 --> 1:05:47.800 like you know, I didn't. I mean they I thought, 1:05:48.360 --> 1:05:50.080 you know, when I was at Tech, I thought they 1:05:50.160 --> 1:05:53.080 had a really good staff. Um. You know, a guy 1:05:53.160 --> 1:05:55.720 named Bob Buyer was on the staff, who who's now 1:05:55.800 --> 1:05:59.640 an assistant in the NBA. Pat Knight was on the staff. Uh, 1:05:59.680 --> 1:06:01.560 and then Chris beer, you know, and those were the 1:06:01.600 --> 1:06:04.800 guys that were were coaches assistance during my time there. 1:06:04.840 --> 1:06:06.720 So it was a great learning experience obviously, you know, 1:06:06.840 --> 1:06:09.840 being around coach on the other side, uh, and seeing 1:06:09.880 --> 1:06:13.040 how he attacked each day, how he prepared for practice 1:06:13.080 --> 1:06:15.280 and games, and just kind of how he managed the 1:06:15.360 --> 1:06:18.560 office and went about running a college basketball program. Um 1:06:18.720 --> 1:06:20.880 that you didn't see as a player. To see it 1:06:20.920 --> 1:06:23.000 on the other side on the people to be in 1:06:23.040 --> 1:06:26.200 those meetings was was great. And then obviously to be 1:06:26.280 --> 1:06:29.560 around those three three individuals and and uh, you know, 1:06:29.680 --> 1:06:31.919 be able to pick their brain every day was really good. 1:06:33.120 --> 1:06:35.080 You were were you were at Eastern before you went 1:06:35.160 --> 1:06:38.360 to Butler, right, Yes, I was at Eastern Illinois for 1:06:38.480 --> 1:06:42.160 six years with Mike Miller, who who I think he 1:06:42.200 --> 1:06:44.200 has been the head coach of the New York Knicks 1:06:44.520 --> 1:06:49.080 um G League team for several years. And I believe, uh, 1:06:49.320 --> 1:06:52.200 if I if I heard correctly, um may just got 1:06:52.360 --> 1:06:54.920 moved up to the bench on in the NBA. So 1:06:55.440 --> 1:06:59.200 so congrats him a great a really good basketball coach 1:06:59.200 --> 1:07:03.200 Eastern Nolinois. Just very difficult job. Okay, So how did 1:07:03.280 --> 1:07:05.000 how did it come about that you come about that 1:07:05.080 --> 1:07:08.800 you got the butler. So I actually took a job 1:07:08.880 --> 1:07:11.520 with Porter Moser at Loola. When he got the job 1:07:11.800 --> 1:07:15.320 at Chicago, he was looking for a a young guy 1:07:15.400 --> 1:07:19.040 that could recruit UM in the Midwest and in Indiana 1:07:19.120 --> 1:07:21.960 and and uh, my name was given to him and 1:07:22.000 --> 1:07:24.560 he reached out. I took the job. I was actually 1:07:24.640 --> 1:07:27.200 in Chicago for about two and a half weeks. Uh 1:07:27.320 --> 1:07:30.160 and Porter. I get a phone call from Porter Um 1:07:30.880 --> 1:07:32.960 and I was I was actually back in Charleston to 1:07:33.040 --> 1:07:35.760 see my wife who was getting ready to deliver our 1:07:35.800 --> 1:07:40.000 second daughter. And Porter goes, hey, Brad Stevens just called me, 1:07:40.680 --> 1:07:42.320 Um and wants to talk to you about a job. 1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:44.720 What are you gonna do? And I was like, what 1:07:44.840 --> 1:07:47.280 are you? What are you talking about? And Um, you 1:07:47.360 --> 1:07:50.680 know Brad and typical Brad fashion. He called Porter first 1:07:51.560 --> 1:07:54.000 UM and asked Porter, you know, if you could talk 1:07:54.040 --> 1:07:56.720 to me about a job near the time, he wasn't great. UM, 1:07:56.960 --> 1:07:59.920 and I give I give you know, Porter a ton 1:08:00.000 --> 1:08:01.920 of credit because Brad said, hey, listen, Mike doesn't know 1:08:02.000 --> 1:08:05.440 about this. Um, you don't have to worry about him 1:08:05.480 --> 1:08:07.600 getting upset. You know, this is just you and me. 1:08:07.720 --> 1:08:11.120 Nobody else knows about it. UM And Porter, just taking 1:08:11.160 --> 1:08:13.600 the job and trying to get get that program rolling. 1:08:14.120 --> 1:08:17.439 And I've always been dead at the Porter because he 1:08:17.520 --> 1:08:19.519 gave me the opportunity to talk to Brad about the 1:08:20.040 --> 1:08:23.280 job and and UM, you know you can't. You got 1:08:23.280 --> 1:08:25.760 an opportunity to work for Brad Stevens coming off the 1:08:25.840 --> 1:08:28.920 two final fours A Butler, Um, you know you take it. 1:08:28.960 --> 1:08:31.640 It's kind of like you know when Mick reached out 1:08:31.680 --> 1:08:33.120 to me here, like you don't tell U c l 1:08:33.160 --> 1:08:35.640 A now you know. And and so that's how I 1:08:35.680 --> 1:08:37.360 got to Butler. I was there for five years, two 1:08:37.360 --> 1:08:40.080 of them with Brad Um and then before he went 1:08:40.120 --> 1:08:43.080 to Boston, and then Brandon Miller for a year. The 1:08:43.160 --> 1:08:49.679 last two years were under Chris Holtman. Um, if you could, 1:08:51.640 --> 1:08:54.280 m okay, So I asked you about about Coach Night, 1:08:54.520 --> 1:08:56.920 all right, the same question kind of about Brad, like 1:08:57.080 --> 1:09:02.160 what is it Brad? Brad is just one. I think 1:09:02.200 --> 1:09:06.120 he's very comfortable with who he is. UM. He he 1:09:06.360 --> 1:09:12.280 is uber, uber intelligent. UM. And he's ultimately prepared, overly 1:09:12.360 --> 1:09:15.240 prepared for every situation like you're you're not ever gonna 1:09:15.320 --> 1:09:20.360 catch him, um, not prepared. And I think he's very 1:09:20.400 --> 1:09:25.080 efficient in um, how he works and how he prepares, 1:09:25.160 --> 1:09:28.360 how he runs a practice. UM. And I tell people, 1:09:28.360 --> 1:09:30.320 I've told people this before, and they look at me 1:09:30.520 --> 1:09:36.679 like kind of really really strange. UM, Like what Bob 1:09:36.800 --> 1:09:40.080 Knight and what Brad Stevens want from their players or 1:09:40.120 --> 1:09:42.400 want from their program, the type of people that they want, 1:09:43.080 --> 1:09:47.679 UM their program to stand for, are exactly the same. 1:09:48.439 --> 1:09:52.439 Now how each one of those individuals go about achieving 1:09:52.520 --> 1:09:55.840 that our opposite ends of the spectrum, and both worked 1:09:55.880 --> 1:09:59.120 for each individual. But you know, it's like it's like 1:09:59.200 --> 1:10:02.880 even elite company. Now you look you look at especially sports, 1:10:02.880 --> 1:10:05.120 you look at the Patriots, so you look at you know, 1:10:05.200 --> 1:10:08.679 what the Warriors have done, like like the main components 1:10:08.760 --> 1:10:11.600 of those things are all the same. Now that how 1:10:11.680 --> 1:10:13.720 they go about getting them. Sometimes they do it their 1:10:13.760 --> 1:10:15.519 own personal way, which you have to do. You gotta 1:10:15.520 --> 1:10:18.360 be who you are, UM. But those guys were very 1:10:18.400 --> 1:10:20.160 similar in what they wanted. They just go about it 1:10:20.240 --> 1:10:22.640 in different ways. And they they both have achieved a 1:10:22.680 --> 1:10:27.800 ton of success. Your second year there, you guys got 1:10:27.880 --> 1:10:30.640 to I'm gonna say the sweet sixteen? Is that right? Right? 1:10:31.240 --> 1:10:33.560 Or did you lose? I guess you lost in the 1:10:33.640 --> 1:10:37.200 second game. You beat Bucknell and then you you lost 1:10:37.280 --> 1:10:40.599 to Marquette. But but this is and but now you've 1:10:40.600 --> 1:10:42.639 gotten a chance to be a part like the first 1:10:42.720 --> 1:10:45.679 year was, I mean, you've lost They lost Gordon Hayward 1:10:45.720 --> 1:10:47.640 the year before and then they lost Shelvin Mack. Like 1:10:47.800 --> 1:10:50.200 you lose two of the kind of like all time 1:10:50.280 --> 1:10:53.439 great Butler players. And so you do, and and the 1:10:53.479 --> 1:10:55.760 competition got stiffer and you you didn't make the n 1:10:55.800 --> 1:10:58.280 S a Terman. Second year you do, so you get 1:10:58.360 --> 1:11:01.080 to see kind of brad at you know, at a 1:11:01.200 --> 1:11:05.320 championship kind of caliber level in game. What is he like? 1:11:06.960 --> 1:11:09.920 He's really good, like I said, he's prepared for every situation. Um, 1:11:10.400 --> 1:11:13.040 you know, and you know, we we beat buck Now 1:11:13.720 --> 1:11:17.720 pretty pretty handily in the first round. Um, and then 1:11:17.760 --> 1:11:21.120 we got against Marquette and they were really good and um, 1:11:21.840 --> 1:11:24.800 you know, we we helped out a boat a ballside 1:11:24.840 --> 1:11:27.800 corner off a shooter, um and gave up a three 1:11:28.120 --> 1:11:29.519 for them to take the lead. And then we had 1:11:29.560 --> 1:11:32.120 an opportunity at the end and we didn't get a 1:11:32.200 --> 1:11:35.560 great shot. UM you know, was was okay. So so 1:11:35.920 --> 1:11:38.479 so we don't be asking so for people who don't 1:11:38.520 --> 1:11:43.040 know you were Brad's offensive coordinator. Correct, No, not that. No, 1:11:43.280 --> 1:11:45.719 I didn't do that stuff for Brad. Brad did his stuff. 1:11:46.080 --> 1:11:47.880 Oh that wasn't that was still help put you hole, 1:11:47.920 --> 1:11:52.160 put you in that position. Yeah, okay. So so, uh 1:11:52.360 --> 1:11:53.920 they they hit it three. Did you guys call it 1:11:53.960 --> 1:11:56.160 time out? Did you guys just come into something? Well, 1:11:56.200 --> 1:11:58.320 we got we got down the other end of the floor. Um, 1:11:58.479 --> 1:12:00.439 I'm not sure how we got got but we had 1:12:00.479 --> 1:12:03.920 a side out of bounds with a short clock on 1:12:04.040 --> 1:12:05.760 the side out of bounds, and that we had a 1:12:05.800 --> 1:12:09.000 time out. We used the time out. Um. I don't 1:12:09.040 --> 1:12:10.880 know if we used it or Buzz used it. Um, 1:12:11.080 --> 1:12:13.559 but there was a time out, and uh the buzz 1:12:13.600 --> 1:12:15.000 came out in the one three one on the side 1:12:15.000 --> 1:12:18.000 out of bounds. Um. And it was really really good, 1:12:18.360 --> 1:12:22.439 really good, and um, you know it gave us some problems. 1:12:22.560 --> 1:12:25.639 We got the ball to Andrew Smith at the top. 1:12:25.760 --> 1:12:27.439 He got a shot off, not a great look and 1:12:27.840 --> 1:12:30.720 and and didn't make it. But um, it was it 1:12:30.840 --> 1:12:35.080 was a really really good college basketball game. Um. And uh, 1:12:35.479 --> 1:12:37.760 you know we had we had Rottney Clark on that team, 1:12:37.960 --> 1:12:40.560 you know, Kelly Dunham on that team. Um, so we 1:12:40.800 --> 1:12:43.680 we could score some points. Uh, Andrew Smith, you know, 1:12:43.840 --> 1:12:46.880 Roosevelt Jones was was younger, Kim Woods was younger, So 1:12:46.920 --> 1:12:48.760 we had some guys that can compete. It is it's 1:12:48.800 --> 1:12:51.599 just a really good, uh college basketball game. I think 1:12:51.680 --> 1:12:54.240 we were the sixth seed and I think Marquette was 1:12:54.320 --> 1:12:58.320 maybe the three um playing down there in Mexington, so 1:12:59.080 --> 1:13:01.240 it was a obviously a better loss. And then you 1:13:01.320 --> 1:13:04.200 know that was We're in the eight ten that year. 1:13:04.280 --> 1:13:06.720 So my time, my five years of Butler, we're in 1:13:06.800 --> 1:13:08.600 three different leagues. We're in the Horizon League than the 1:13:08.680 --> 1:13:10.519 eight tun and then ultimately made the move to the 1:13:10.560 --> 1:13:13.400 Big East. Yeah, and I don't think people understand how 1:13:13.479 --> 1:13:16.400 hard that is to you know, you go from the Horizon, 1:13:16.479 --> 1:13:18.799 which is like low major, right most of the league's 1:13:18.800 --> 1:13:21.280 like low major, to the A ten, which is a 1:13:21.320 --> 1:13:24.720 good high major league, you know, especially then, and then 1:13:24.800 --> 1:13:26.680 to the Big East, and you know, it's it's a 1:13:26.800 --> 1:13:29.360 massive step up in competition because you have teams, you know, 1:13:29.479 --> 1:13:31.599 Villanova kind of coming down from us from a high 1:13:31.640 --> 1:13:34.640 major A ten was more mid major, and then the 1:13:34.680 --> 1:13:37.040 Big East end was like a mix of like the 1:13:37.800 --> 1:13:40.240 mid you know, high mid majors and low high mid 1:13:40.280 --> 1:13:42.760 you know, like there's a reason Nova was struggling a 1:13:42.760 --> 1:13:44.120 little bit in the Old Big East and all of 1:13:44.120 --> 1:13:46.479 a sudden you come down you're playing against the New 1:13:46.520 --> 1:13:49.080 Big East competition and they're just throttling people. Right, So 1:13:49.200 --> 1:13:50.920 it's a it's a different level on day to day 1:13:50.960 --> 1:13:52.960 in terms of who you're playing against as opposed to 1:13:53.000 --> 1:13:56.640 who you're previously recruiting and playing against. Is that accurate, no, 1:13:56.840 --> 1:14:00.360 no question, without a doubt. And and uh, you know 1:14:00.479 --> 1:14:03.439 we were with having Rottney Clark sitting now um, and 1:14:03.520 --> 1:14:05.920 we had some talented guy I mean Roosevelt Jones. Those 1:14:05.920 --> 1:14:09.479 guys were good players, um and killing Downham a good player, 1:14:09.560 --> 1:14:12.000 and so we were able. We competed very well in 1:14:12.080 --> 1:14:13.400 the A t and I think we finished third in 1:14:13.400 --> 1:14:14.880 the A and it was a very strong year for 1:14:14.920 --> 1:14:17.519 the eight. St. Louis was really good that year, um. 1:14:17.760 --> 1:14:19.400 And then we got in the Unst A Tournament and 1:14:19.479 --> 1:14:22.439 then our first year in the Big East. Um, you know, 1:14:22.520 --> 1:14:25.200 we Roosevelt Jones was hurt. He tore up a risk 1:14:25.640 --> 1:14:28.000 um on a on a trip to Australia. Our team 1:14:28.040 --> 1:14:30.120 took our we took our team to Australia on one 1:14:30.160 --> 1:14:32.680 of those foreign trips um, and he tore up a 1:14:32.800 --> 1:14:36.160 risk um and was out for the year. And we 1:14:36.280 --> 1:14:40.120 weren't we weren't prepared from a roster standpoint to make 1:14:40.200 --> 1:14:44.360 that jump that quickly. Um, and uh for our first 1:14:44.439 --> 1:14:46.280 year in the in the Big East was not very good. 1:14:46.320 --> 1:14:49.360 And then the next two years we uh we competed well, 1:14:49.439 --> 1:14:53.680 got the unst A tournament and uh you know has 1:14:53.800 --> 1:14:56.080 had some success and and kind of set them up 1:14:56.120 --> 1:14:58.519 for you know where they are now. But UM, it 1:14:58.640 --> 1:15:01.080 took us a recruit We're able to get Kelan Martin 1:15:01.360 --> 1:15:04.479 and one of those eight early recruiting classes, and then 1:15:04.520 --> 1:15:06.479 you just you know, you have guys like Cam Woods 1:15:06.520 --> 1:15:09.280 and Roosevelt Jones and coming down him that were left over. 1:15:09.840 --> 1:15:12.400 Um you piece those guys together. We had a really 1:15:12.439 --> 1:15:17.439 tough kid that was a walk on named Alex Barlow. Yeah, yeah, 1:15:17.479 --> 1:15:19.519 baseball guy and now he he you know he works 1:15:20.120 --> 1:15:23.200 uh in the Celtics organization. Just a just a really 1:15:23.280 --> 1:15:26.840 tough guy. And UM, you know, when you have those 1:15:26.840 --> 1:15:28.960 types of competitive people on your team, you've got a chance. 1:15:29.000 --> 1:15:31.519 And that's that's kind of how we were able to survive. 1:15:32.240 --> 1:15:34.280 Um there, but learned we had you know, coming down 1:15:34.320 --> 1:15:37.360 him can shooting and Kelan Martin, you know he rolled 1:15:37.360 --> 1:15:39.880 out of bed get in eighteen to twenties. So you 1:15:39.960 --> 1:15:41.960 put those guys together and we were able to, you know, 1:15:42.040 --> 1:15:44.240 hold and did a great job of kind of holding 1:15:44.280 --> 1:15:47.360 that whole situation together. And and uh, we had we 1:15:47.439 --> 1:15:49.960 had a really good group of kids that cared about winning. 1:15:50.479 --> 1:15:53.040 I really didn't care about how we want, just cared 1:15:53.040 --> 1:15:57.679 about winning. Um again, so we're able to keep it rolling. Okay, 1:15:57.760 --> 1:16:01.639 So Bradley, let me go back, which when Brad leaves? 1:16:01.640 --> 1:16:03.479 Where were you when Bratt when you find out Brad's 1:16:03.520 --> 1:16:07.160 going to go to the NBA. Brad called. I was 1:16:07.240 --> 1:16:11.120 sitting in a in Brandon Miller's car. We were heading 1:16:11.160 --> 1:16:14.080 to get coffee on the last day of camp. It 1:16:14.240 --> 1:16:16.800 was the last Friday of the four of we had. 1:16:16.880 --> 1:16:18.840 We ran four weeks of camp but Butler at that time, 1:16:19.560 --> 1:16:23.479 and we just finished up our camp staff meeting. We 1:16:23.600 --> 1:16:25.679 had like an hour before the campers we're gonna start 1:16:25.760 --> 1:16:28.880 rolling in and we had h and I were just 1:16:28.960 --> 1:16:31.040 getting in the car to go get a cup of 1:16:31.080 --> 1:16:34.920 coffee and uh, and Brad called to let us know 1:16:35.120 --> 1:16:37.639 that um, he wasn't gonna be at camp until after 1:16:37.800 --> 1:16:40.880 lunch that Danny Angel was coming and he was sitting 1:16:40.920 --> 1:16:44.000 down with him, and we knew, Um, I knew at 1:16:44.040 --> 1:16:46.799 that time. I knew Brad well enough and been arounding 1:16:46.880 --> 1:16:49.040 through you know. I mean, every every school was calling 1:16:49.080 --> 1:16:50.560 Brad at that time. You know, I think if I 1:16:50.680 --> 1:16:52.519 was eating the time when when U. C. L A 1:16:52.600 --> 1:16:55.320 reached out to Brad about coming out here. Um, and 1:16:55.400 --> 1:16:57.920 I knew the fact that he had actually was going 1:16:58.040 --> 1:17:00.920 to sit down face to face, that that this was real. 1:17:01.000 --> 1:17:03.720 It wasn't just somebody e gauging interest or Brad just 1:17:04.560 --> 1:17:07.680 you know, saying things. But no, and and I just 1:17:07.800 --> 1:17:10.800 remember hanging up the phone, you know, when bringing hung 1:17:10.920 --> 1:17:13.480 up the phone and and we had had that conversation 1:17:13.520 --> 1:17:15.439 on speaker phone. I just looked at Brandon. I'm like this, 1:17:15.920 --> 1:17:18.560 this dude's gone. Man, he's going to Boston. And and 1:17:19.120 --> 1:17:21.600 and good for him, you know, what a what an opportunity. 1:17:21.640 --> 1:17:23.360 But yeah, that's that's where I was. I was hading 1:17:23.360 --> 1:17:27.160 to get a cup of coffee sitting in the Kinklefield 1:17:27.200 --> 1:17:30.720 House parking lot when I found out. Okay, so did 1:17:30.800 --> 1:17:34.400 you have a chance to go? No? You know, I 1:17:34.520 --> 1:17:37.200 really I didn't entertain anything, you know, really like I 1:17:37.520 --> 1:17:39.479 was really happy in Indianapolis. I thought we had some 1:17:39.560 --> 1:17:43.800 good stuff going. Um, you know, and no, I never 1:17:44.439 --> 1:17:47.760 I never asked and I was never off you know. 1:17:48.200 --> 1:17:51.320 So um I was at that time when Brad left, 1:17:51.360 --> 1:17:53.920 I tried to get the Butler Hey coaching job. I 1:17:54.000 --> 1:17:56.720 interviewed with h I interviewed with Barry Color twice. So 1:17:56.840 --> 1:18:00.280 that's um, you know, I knew how the Butler way worked. UM, 1:18:00.439 --> 1:18:02.680 I knew the opportunity like this is how hey, this 1:18:02.800 --> 1:18:06.400 is how um that's how Fad might have got the job. 1:18:06.520 --> 1:18:09.959 Is how uh you know this is you know, Liquidder 1:18:10.000 --> 1:18:11.640 got the job. This how Brad got the job, Like 1:18:11.680 --> 1:18:15.080 this is how this place works, you know. Um, Matthew 1:18:15.160 --> 1:18:19.480 Graves and had already left to go to um South Alabama, 1:18:19.640 --> 1:18:22.439 like you know, like if I'm if I'm going to 1:18:22.520 --> 1:18:24.280 have a shot at this, this may be my shot, 1:18:24.640 --> 1:18:27.320 you know. And and uh so I tried to prepare 1:18:27.360 --> 1:18:30.839 in a very short amount of time, uh to interview 1:18:30.880 --> 1:18:32.920 with Barry and got to sit down with Barry Color 1:18:33.000 --> 1:18:36.640 twice and and ultimately he hired Brandon Miller. But um, 1:18:36.760 --> 1:18:39.599 that's kind of where my focus was at that time. Okay, 1:18:39.640 --> 1:18:41.400 so what's that like to be. Like you said, obvious, 1:18:41.439 --> 1:18:45.120 you're close to Brandon Miller and you're in the car 1:18:45.320 --> 1:18:47.680 hang up and you guys are both fighting after the 1:18:47.720 --> 1:18:51.880 same job. He gets it, You don't you stay? And 1:18:52.520 --> 1:18:56.080 what was what's that like? I think you're just you're 1:18:56.080 --> 1:18:58.439 a professional and you do the job like you focused, 1:18:58.479 --> 1:19:01.920 like you know you you you deal with the initial disappointment, right, 1:19:02.080 --> 1:19:04.000 I mean there's gonna be a human emotion there. You 1:19:04.120 --> 1:19:08.800 deal with the initial disappointment of you know, being maybe 1:19:08.840 --> 1:19:11.519 as close as you're gonna be to that opportunity UM. 1:19:11.600 --> 1:19:13.679 And really, at that time in my career, the closest 1:19:13.720 --> 1:19:16.120 I had been to something like that UM and out 1:19:16.160 --> 1:19:20.520 of school like Butler UM. You know, you're you're you're disappointed, 1:19:20.600 --> 1:19:22.760 but you're also like, hey, like you also have a 1:19:22.840 --> 1:19:24.400 job to do. You've got a family you need to 1:19:24.479 --> 1:19:27.720 take care of. UM, and you've got a team full 1:19:27.760 --> 1:19:31.360 of of athletes that that you've grown close to, that 1:19:31.520 --> 1:19:34.040 you care about and you want to you immediately turn 1:19:34.080 --> 1:19:37.040 your focus, so, hey, what's what's best about for these guys? 1:19:37.080 --> 1:19:39.679 And get out, get outside of your selfishness, get outside 1:19:39.720 --> 1:19:42.800 yourself and try to focus on what's what's best for 1:19:42.880 --> 1:19:46.439 the people, um that lean on you and that are 1:19:46.479 --> 1:19:49.200 around you, you know what's best for them and so, um, 1:19:49.600 --> 1:19:51.240 you know it wasn't awkward in any way. You know, 1:19:51.320 --> 1:19:54.000 we had worked together before. Um, you know he had 1:19:54.040 --> 1:19:56.200 played there. You know, Barry had recruited him. Like I 1:19:56.320 --> 1:19:58.280 got all the connections. He was a Butler guy, Like 1:19:58.360 --> 1:20:00.880 I did it. I respect all that I respect. You know, 1:20:00.960 --> 1:20:04.000 I played for a program, which tradition, I worked at 1:20:04.040 --> 1:20:05.640 a program right now, and I talk to you rich 1:20:05.680 --> 1:20:09.720 and tradition. Butler, you know, has their own tradition, Like 1:20:09.760 --> 1:20:12.240 I respect that. I understand all that, And so it 1:20:12.400 --> 1:20:15.320 wasn't really difficult for me once I got back uh 1:20:15.520 --> 1:20:19.439 into the job to do my job. You Um, and 1:20:19.520 --> 1:20:21.160 then you work for Holt, who got the job when 1:20:21.200 --> 1:20:25.479 Brandon takes a leave of absence and who really empowered you. Um. 1:20:25.720 --> 1:20:27.759 But then you you took a chance. And I remember 1:20:27.800 --> 1:20:30.080 you and I talking about about going to Nebraska like, look, 1:20:30.080 --> 1:20:33.920 I gotta you know, I gotta, I gotta try this. Um. 1:20:35.560 --> 1:20:38.519 What was you know, because there's lots of basketball coaches listeners, 1:20:38.600 --> 1:20:41.080 what was the decision like to leave Butler where you 1:20:41.160 --> 1:20:43.640 had Keelan Martin, you had dudes you'd figured out how 1:20:43.680 --> 1:20:46.400 to compete in the Big East, and you're in You're 1:20:46.439 --> 1:20:49.360 in your comfort zone in Indianapolis. But there's a you know, 1:20:49.439 --> 1:20:52.280 you keep bumping into kind of a ceiling there. Um. 1:20:52.400 --> 1:20:54.320 What was the what was the thought like about about 1:20:54.400 --> 1:20:58.160 leaving leaving for Nebraska? Well, what you just said, I 1:20:58.240 --> 1:21:00.400 was in my comfort zone and I felt like for 1:21:00.600 --> 1:21:03.680 me to to grow, I needed to get outside of 1:21:03.720 --> 1:21:05.840 my cumber zone. You know. We talked to are our 1:21:05.920 --> 1:21:07.840 players all the time about workouts, like you've got to 1:21:08.160 --> 1:21:11.040 You've got become comfortable being uncomfortable. You know, you can't. 1:21:11.080 --> 1:21:12.840 You're not going to get any better if you work 1:21:12.920 --> 1:21:15.840 out at a comfortable place or at a comfortable pace. 1:21:15.920 --> 1:21:19.360 You've got to expand your boundaries. Um, you know. And 1:21:20.439 --> 1:21:24.240 after year or two with Chris Um, Georgia Tech approached 1:21:24.840 --> 1:21:28.840 Chris about an opportunity um that he he ended up 1:21:29.240 --> 1:21:32.040 not doing. And and I knew again going back to 1:21:32.120 --> 1:21:34.080 the Butler way of promoting from within, I knew how 1:21:34.160 --> 1:21:38.559 that the whole process you know, took place. And Chris 1:21:38.680 --> 1:21:41.720 turned that down and and and came to us of 1:21:41.800 --> 1:21:44.160 the staff and say, hey, I'm gonna sign a longer 1:21:44.320 --> 1:21:46.599 term deal here with Butler. This is this is where 1:21:46.640 --> 1:21:48.720 I want to be. This is a lifetime decision for me, 1:21:48.920 --> 1:21:52.080 and UM, you know, with the timing of everything on 1:21:52.200 --> 1:21:55.640 Nebraska had a note meaning that that uh, you know, 1:21:55.680 --> 1:21:58.400 I could get involved with and I just felt like 1:21:58.840 --> 1:22:01.559 with everything going on, UM, you know, if I wanted 1:22:01.600 --> 1:22:03.680 to ultimately take the next step that it was this 1:22:03.880 --> 1:22:06.600 was an opportunity that I had to really considered, you know, 1:22:06.680 --> 1:22:09.479 as far as one jump into the Big Ten, which 1:22:09.520 --> 1:22:12.080 I had played in. UM loved being a part of 1:22:12.080 --> 1:22:14.360 the Big Ten, and you know, it's the highest level 1:22:14.400 --> 1:22:16.439 of of college basketball. You know, it's one of the 1:22:16.479 --> 1:22:19.160 premier leagues in the country, and so you get to 1:22:19.240 --> 1:22:23.760 compete against those coaches, against those players every day from 1:22:23.960 --> 1:22:26.200 you know, from the basketball point to the to the 1:22:26.280 --> 1:22:29.639 recruiting and everything that goes with it. UM. And it's 1:22:29.680 --> 1:22:32.519 just an opportunity to do that and plus get out 1:22:32.560 --> 1:22:35.000 of my comfort zone a little bit as as a coach. 1:22:35.080 --> 1:22:37.760 You know, I had grown up uh in Indiana, was 1:22:37.800 --> 1:22:40.920 coaching in Indiana. You know, when you're at Butler, you 1:22:41.080 --> 1:22:44.120 kind of you you recruit a certain type of player. UM, 1:22:44.320 --> 1:22:46.439 a certain type of kid has to fit the Butler way. 1:22:46.600 --> 1:22:49.839 So to speak, um, and I wanted to to expand 1:22:49.880 --> 1:22:52.479 myself a little bit and taking on a different challenge. 1:22:52.720 --> 1:22:54.640 And you know, Chris has given me a ton of 1:22:56.240 --> 1:22:58.840 responsibility as far as you know, calling the altinates and 1:22:58.920 --> 1:23:01.360 things there. Get allowed me to grow immensely as a 1:23:01.439 --> 1:23:04.240 coach because he gave me those responsibilities, and he gave 1:23:04.280 --> 1:23:06.479 me an opportunity to fail. Like I mean, that's how 1:23:06.560 --> 1:23:08.479 you learned. Like you fail, you learn from it more 1:23:08.600 --> 1:23:10.920 and you you don't make that same mistake again. So 1:23:10.960 --> 1:23:13.880 I felt like, well in my time with with Chris 1:23:14.000 --> 1:23:16.000 that I had really grown as a coach. I had 1:23:16.000 --> 1:23:19.240 really expanded, um, my knowledge of the coach as far 1:23:19.320 --> 1:23:21.639 as you know in game play calling and different things, 1:23:21.720 --> 1:23:24.400 and and um that it was just the timing of 1:23:24.479 --> 1:23:28.960 everything in his commitment to to Butler Um that it 1:23:29.040 --> 1:23:30.960 was time to take the next step. And you know 1:23:31.000 --> 1:23:33.120 I didn't in hindsight, I didn't realize he was gonna 1:23:33.120 --> 1:23:35.960 go to Ohio State, you know, twelve months later. But 1:23:36.320 --> 1:23:38.439 as I'm sitting here at u C, I think everything 1:23:38.600 --> 1:23:41.280 is has worked out. You just I've always tried to 1:23:41.320 --> 1:23:44.640 make decisions when they've come up on my plate in 1:23:44.760 --> 1:23:48.599 my career with the knowledge that I have at hand 1:23:49.080 --> 1:23:51.800 and and try to make the best decision at that time. 1:23:52.280 --> 1:23:55.000 And then once you make that decision, I never looked back, 1:23:55.360 --> 1:23:57.559 like I don't look back to hey, what effort this happened? 1:23:57.600 --> 1:23:59.960 That happened. Not not at all like everybody says. Everybody 1:24:00.040 --> 1:24:03.320 says that at all, because I mean, I'm talking about 1:24:03.320 --> 1:24:05.560 it right now to you, But like I don't, like 1:24:05.680 --> 1:24:07.720 I made a decision to go to Nebraska, and every 1:24:07.760 --> 1:24:09.720 day I was at Nebraska, I worked my ass off 1:24:10.080 --> 1:24:12.360 to make that decision, the right decision. I think that's 1:24:12.400 --> 1:24:15.920 your job. No, I understand. Look listen, I understand that. 1:24:16.000 --> 1:24:17.840 But but I but I mean, like, look, if I'm honest, 1:24:18.720 --> 1:24:22.680 and I was at ESPN for nine years, and I like, 1:24:22.800 --> 1:24:24.920 all I really, I mean, I wanted to make a 1:24:24.960 --> 1:24:27.320 certain amount of money. I wanted to continue to grow, 1:24:27.920 --> 1:24:30.479 and they offered me, honestly, the exact amount of money 1:24:30.560 --> 1:24:33.600 that I wanted, but they wouldn't promise any growth. And 1:24:33.800 --> 1:24:36.200 probably you know, like at the moment there, I was 1:24:36.200 --> 1:24:37.960 a little selfish, and I was like, why don't you 1:24:38.160 --> 1:24:40.960 you know? All I asked for is like these five things, 1:24:41.200 --> 1:24:42.880 and you said no, But you said yes to the 1:24:42.920 --> 1:24:46.760 money that I wanted, and you know, CBS offered me 1:24:47.160 --> 1:24:50.720 the opportunities that I wanted and uh not, you know 1:24:50.800 --> 1:24:52.679 a little bit more money, but I had to uproot 1:24:52.760 --> 1:24:56.120 my family. Like look in hindsight, I don't know. I mean, 1:24:56.120 --> 1:24:57.400 I would just be honest, like, if I could go 1:24:57.439 --> 1:24:59.680 back and do it, I wouldn't have gotten to do 1:24:59.720 --> 1:25:02.080 the fun before. But there was also a lot of moving, 1:25:02.680 --> 1:25:04.559 a lot of hard stuff with the family in terms 1:25:04.600 --> 1:25:07.000 of moving. I think it's a reasonable thing to look 1:25:07.040 --> 1:25:09.800 back and to say was this the right decision? Was 1:25:09.880 --> 1:25:12.920 it the wrong decision. It doesn't mean you can't like 1:25:13.120 --> 1:25:15.760 I've I've every day I worked there. Every day I've 1:25:15.800 --> 1:25:18.479 worked at Fox like I try and you know, kick ass. 1:25:18.600 --> 1:25:20.760 I think about the Oaklahoma State job I didn't get, 1:25:20.800 --> 1:25:23.000 like I I think it's I think all these things 1:25:23.040 --> 1:25:24.920 are reasonable to look back at. Can you you can 1:25:25.000 --> 1:25:28.479 honestly not look back and have any sort of regret, Like, dude, 1:25:28.479 --> 1:25:30.479 if you would have stayed there, I don't know. If 1:25:30.520 --> 1:25:33.320 they hire vout they might. I mean he played at Butler, 1:25:33.400 --> 1:25:35.240 he was a head coach. You didn't have head coaching experience, 1:25:35.280 --> 1:25:36.439 but you were there, or you could have gone to 1:25:36.479 --> 1:25:38.760 a how States still been in the Big ten, you know, 1:25:39.080 --> 1:25:41.120 at a better spot than Nebraska in terms of getting 1:25:41.160 --> 1:25:43.519 players Like that, that's not a reasonable thing to at 1:25:43.560 --> 1:25:46.120 least think about. No, I think you can. I think 1:25:46.160 --> 1:25:48.160 you can look back and learn from decisions you make. 1:25:48.320 --> 1:25:50.720 But I don't spend a lot of time wondering what if, 1:25:51.040 --> 1:25:53.519 Like like, okay, say that does I'm like what you 1:25:53.640 --> 1:25:56.519 just said, Maybe that that scenario plays out, I'm at 1:25:56.520 --> 1:25:58.320 O while State. Do I have the opportunity to be 1:25:58.360 --> 1:26:01.040 at U c l A. Who knows? You don't know? 1:26:01.200 --> 1:26:03.160 Like That's why I don't spend a lot of time 1:26:03.240 --> 1:26:05.600 like there's so many waters, there's so many different scenarios. 1:26:05.680 --> 1:26:08.200 Like all I know is like I made a decision 1:26:08.240 --> 1:26:10.960 to go to Nebraska. I worked my ass off every 1:26:11.040 --> 1:26:13.880 day to help that program, you know, get better. In 1:26:14.280 --> 1:26:15.840 the last two years, we had the best two year 1:26:15.920 --> 1:26:18.680 run since ninety one. Okay, so I think it's in 1:26:18.720 --> 1:26:21.120 a better spot than when I when I first got there. 1:26:21.400 --> 1:26:23.400 And now now I get the opportunity to work at 1:26:23.479 --> 1:26:25.280 U c l A. If I don't go to Nebraska, 1:26:25.960 --> 1:26:27.519 maybe I'm not ever here at U c l A. 1:26:27.840 --> 1:26:31.240 And this is this is a really cool opportunity, uh, 1:26:31.400 --> 1:26:33.479 you know, for anybody in college basketball to be able 1:26:33.520 --> 1:26:35.920 to coach you at U c l A. So that's 1:26:35.960 --> 1:26:38.920 why I think. I think you can look back at 1:26:38.960 --> 1:26:40.960 the decisions you make. I think you can learn from them. 1:26:41.040 --> 1:26:43.240 But I don't. I don't spend a lot of time 1:26:43.400 --> 1:26:45.040 like how I could have done this or what if 1:26:45.120 --> 1:26:46.760 this would have happened like, because I think it just 1:26:46.840 --> 1:26:49.559 takes away from from the job that you have at hand. 1:26:49.600 --> 1:26:52.920 And I've I've been very fortunate by just doing the 1:26:53.040 --> 1:26:55.559 job I have at hand and trust in the process 1:26:55.640 --> 1:26:58.439 that it's gonna lead to whatever is next. And like 1:26:58.560 --> 1:27:00.920 I said, like I get I'm pretty lucky. I've been 1:27:00.960 --> 1:27:03.720 really lucky to be where I'm at. But that's how 1:27:03.800 --> 1:27:08.639 I've gone about my my career. And I'm sitting in Westwood. 1:27:08.800 --> 1:27:10.680 So I'm not too upset. I'm not I'm not going 1:27:10.760 --> 1:27:13.160 to change, you know. And maybe it's wrong to say, 1:27:13.240 --> 1:27:15.599 like I never looked at but I don't allow myself 1:27:15.640 --> 1:27:17.680 to spend a lot of time wondering about the what is, 1:27:18.360 --> 1:27:20.920 you know, I just thinking about how I can get there. 1:27:20.960 --> 1:27:22.680 You know, I think you learned from the decisions you make. 1:27:23.240 --> 1:27:25.120 Um if you had to go back and do it again. 1:27:25.280 --> 1:27:27.920 Like it all depends on the timing. That's why I say, 1:27:27.960 --> 1:27:30.680 I just when when a decision comes my way and 1:27:30.760 --> 1:27:32.439 I have to make a decision to up prove my 1:27:32.520 --> 1:27:34.479 family or to take the next job or whatever it is, 1:27:34.960 --> 1:27:37.080 I just used the knowledge that I have at that 1:27:37.240 --> 1:27:39.680 time and the president to try to make the best 1:27:39.760 --> 1:27:42.720 decision at that time, and then I spend the rest 1:27:42.800 --> 1:27:46.160 of my time trying to make whatever decision I decided 1:27:47.160 --> 1:27:49.360 to make it the best decision. And that's that's how 1:27:49.439 --> 1:27:52.439 I've gotten here. Okay, so this is this is the 1:27:52.479 --> 1:27:57.200 first time you were fired, right? Yeah? Yeah? What what 1:27:57.479 --> 1:28:01.320 what I mean? I couldn't have been terribly enjoyable to 1:28:01.520 --> 1:28:04.880 go to work because you know, like you're one of 1:28:04.960 --> 1:28:07.640 your best players is hurt, and there's this kind of 1:28:08.200 --> 1:28:10.920 cloud looming, right. And there's a lot of discussion over 1:28:11.000 --> 1:28:15.240 Nebraska basketball last year, and I thought I thought the 1:28:15.280 --> 1:28:17.160 whole thing was weird, to be honest as an outsider, 1:28:17.200 --> 1:28:19.680 because like, Nebraska is in the Big Twelve when I 1:28:19.800 --> 1:28:22.599 was there, obviously, and they were notorious for being talented, 1:28:23.160 --> 1:28:25.200 terrible on the road. It's never won an n c 1:28:25.280 --> 1:28:29.440 A tournament game, and you know, they they built incredible facilities. 1:28:29.640 --> 1:28:31.760 And I think that people think you sprinkle in some 1:28:31.840 --> 1:28:34.600 pixie dusk and facilities and you're just like all of 1:28:34.640 --> 1:28:36.439 a sudden gonna be at the top of the Big Ten. 1:28:36.640 --> 1:28:40.240 Like do you know how good the big and what 1:28:40.400 --> 1:28:43.200 you're doing, Like do you people have like fans have 1:28:43.479 --> 1:28:47.200 no excuse my French fucking clue, like the Big Ten, 1:28:47.439 --> 1:28:49.760 Like you're not the only one trying to be good, 1:28:49.800 --> 1:28:53.559 like Illinois has Illinois has been good forever and they 1:28:53.640 --> 1:28:56.080 have an awesome coach and they were at the bottom 1:28:56.120 --> 1:28:59.160 of the league. Like it's really really hard because all 1:28:59.240 --> 1:29:01.920 the coaches are good, all the teams are older than 1:29:01.960 --> 1:29:05.479 the other leagues, you know, and all the crowds are good. 1:29:05.479 --> 1:29:07.599 The arena is good, Like, yeah, you've got good facilities, great, 1:29:07.760 --> 1:29:10.800 so does most everybody else in the league. UM, And 1:29:11.040 --> 1:29:13.240 and they have they have more players that that grew 1:29:13.320 --> 1:29:16.639 up closer and fans of their program, right, and that's 1:29:16.680 --> 1:29:21.360 the that's the key to recruiting. UM. But what's what 1:29:21.600 --> 1:29:24.200 is that feeling like for a guy who you know, look, 1:29:24.240 --> 1:29:27.320 you've it hasn't been easy. You know, you didn't come 1:29:27.320 --> 1:29:29.479 out in the NBA Draft. You were in the USBL 1:29:29.600 --> 1:29:32.920 you did get cut after one game playing overseas, but 1:29:33.800 --> 1:29:35.920 you've never been fired before. What what is that? Like? 1:29:36.080 --> 1:29:39.040 Did Tim call you did? Did? How does that work? No? 1:29:39.200 --> 1:29:41.599 I mean like like we were rolling, we were thirteen 1:29:41.680 --> 1:29:44.519 and four. I think we're are thirteen and two, thirteen 1:29:44.600 --> 1:29:46.200 and four, and when we were ranked in the top 1:29:46.280 --> 1:29:50.519 twenty five and really kind of on on the track 1:29:50.600 --> 1:29:53.840 to do everything that that they expected, you know, of 1:29:54.520 --> 1:29:56.800 the team that we had in Nebraska in and and 1:29:57.000 --> 1:29:59.320 honestly that you know, Nebrasa has never won an nca 1:29:59.400 --> 1:30:02.600 tournament game. Um. You know, that challenge of doing that 1:30:03.160 --> 1:30:06.160 excited me. Um. And but the expectation of this year's 1:30:06.160 --> 1:30:08.120 team was to go to sweet six team, you know. 1:30:08.240 --> 1:30:10.519 And like that's what you talked about the fans, Like 1:30:10.600 --> 1:30:13.400 the best thing Nebraska has going for it is the fans. 1:30:13.439 --> 1:30:18.360 They have unbelievably passionate fans that love the Huskers. Um. 1:30:18.920 --> 1:30:21.240 But when you have that, you also sometimes get some 1:30:22.080 --> 1:30:26.479 some expectations and things that can be somewhat unrealistic. And um, 1:30:26.720 --> 1:30:30.160 the expectation for us was to basically stip a skip 1:30:30.240 --> 1:30:32.519 a step in the processor too and just you know, 1:30:32.560 --> 1:30:35.240 wind up in the Sweet sixteen. And and uh, like 1:30:35.479 --> 1:30:37.240 you know, like you've only been the in state tournament 1:30:37.320 --> 1:30:40.000 seven times. Somehow has taken me there one of those 1:30:40.040 --> 1:30:42.320 seven times, Like, let's just win a game and then 1:30:42.360 --> 1:30:45.360 won't worry about you know, what's what's next. And um, 1:30:45.479 --> 1:30:47.439 so that that's kind of what drove me as far 1:30:47.479 --> 1:30:50.439 as you know, the whole Nebraska thing. And I thought 1:30:50.479 --> 1:30:52.280 we were set up to do that and obviously we 1:30:52.400 --> 1:30:56.160 had a horrific injury with Isai Copelan turns a c 1:30:56.320 --> 1:30:58.920 O and you know, things got loose, and um, we 1:30:59.040 --> 1:31:01.160 just weren't able to win, you know, down the stretch 1:31:01.240 --> 1:31:04.120 and in the conference. And so you know, going through 1:31:04.160 --> 1:31:06.320 that whole deal is it's not a pleasant thing. But 1:31:06.400 --> 1:31:09.960 like you again, you've got to get outside yourself. You've 1:31:09.960 --> 1:31:13.160 gotta quit worrying about how this affects you and realize that, 1:31:13.760 --> 1:31:18.040 you know, James Palmer, Glenn Watson, Isaiah Roby, like, this 1:31:18.240 --> 1:31:21.120 is there one shot to be a college basketball player. 1:31:21.400 --> 1:31:24.080 You know, I got my opportunity, You've got your opportunity. 1:31:24.280 --> 1:31:26.960 This is there one shot to be a college basketball player. 1:31:27.000 --> 1:31:28.920 Now I can be selfiece of the coach, and I 1:31:28.960 --> 1:31:31.000 can quit working because hey, we're gonna get fired at 1:31:31.000 --> 1:31:33.519 the end of the year, okay, and I'm just completely 1:31:33.600 --> 1:31:36.479 be self absorbed or I can. I can put all 1:31:36.520 --> 1:31:38.560 my energy and trying to make you know, like what 1:31:38.720 --> 1:31:41.280 I talked about earlier, trying to make their experience for 1:31:41.479 --> 1:31:44.640 them as good as it possibly can be. And so 1:31:44.800 --> 1:31:46.800 that's that's kind of what got me to go to 1:31:46.880 --> 1:31:48.960 work every day and that and to continue to prepare 1:31:49.000 --> 1:31:50.720 and try to put them in the right positions at 1:31:50.720 --> 1:31:53.080 the right time. And um, that's how that's how I 1:31:53.120 --> 1:31:54.519 approach it. I don't know if that's the right way 1:31:54.520 --> 1:31:56.680 to approach it, that's how I went about it. Um. 1:31:56.960 --> 1:31:59.120 We had a good staff that that's stuck together and 1:31:59.840 --> 1:32:01.840 just try to focus our energy on those guys and 1:32:02.439 --> 1:32:04.920 trying to help him down the stretch. And um, we 1:32:05.000 --> 1:32:07.120 had a few more injuries come up, and we got 1:32:07.200 --> 1:32:10.320 down about six fellas at the end, and and the 1:32:10.439 --> 1:32:12.720 last three weeks of coaching those guys were probably as 1:32:12.760 --> 1:32:15.600 much fun as I've had in coaching. Um, you know, 1:32:15.680 --> 1:32:19.240 we had we had three dudes that could go get buckets. Um, 1:32:19.360 --> 1:32:21.400 and my house was great. Moms just finally told him 1:32:21.400 --> 1:32:22.960 in the locker room one day and filmily, hey, listen, 1:32:23.880 --> 1:32:26.080 you three guys go go try to get sixty five, 1:32:26.800 --> 1:32:28.760 and we'll figure it out with these other three and 1:32:28.800 --> 1:32:31.160 we're gonna see what we can do. And and um, 1:32:31.360 --> 1:32:33.120 you know, I think we run we ring off three 1:32:33.200 --> 1:32:38.040 or four consecutive wins and and hopefully you know, those 1:32:38.120 --> 1:32:40.800 guys can remember the end of their career for for 1:32:40.880 --> 1:32:43.280 accomplishing that and kind of forget that no part of 1:32:43.360 --> 1:32:46.600 the season, but um, it was. It was a it 1:32:46.720 --> 1:32:49.720 was a different deal. No, I mean no question. What 1:32:50.439 --> 1:32:52.400 if you were going to religous this night met Tim, Tim, 1:32:52.439 --> 1:32:54.160 I was going to get another job. Right, He's done 1:32:54.160 --> 1:32:56.720 a good job every we's been Uh, if there was 1:32:56.800 --> 1:33:00.559 one thing about how Tim Miles coaches that you will 1:33:00.600 --> 1:33:03.680 take with you that you will tell other people you 1:33:03.680 --> 1:33:06.400 should do this or this is what makes him great? 1:33:06.520 --> 1:33:09.240 What is it? Well? The thing I respect about Tim 1:33:09.960 --> 1:33:12.640 the most is how he got to a Power of 1:33:12.720 --> 1:33:15.080 five conference and like listen, like he got fired whatever 1:33:15.200 --> 1:33:17.439 day it was, he was on a flight six am 1:33:17.600 --> 1:33:19.960 next morning interviewing for another Power of five job. Like 1:33:20.040 --> 1:33:22.960 he's a good basketball coach. Um, and I I and 1:33:23.320 --> 1:33:24.800 I give him a lot of credit because like what 1:33:24.880 --> 1:33:26.880 I told him, I'm like I said, Tim when you 1:33:26.960 --> 1:33:32.679 took over Nebraska, UM, somebody with the reputation and stature 1:33:32.840 --> 1:33:35.960 of Fred Hoiberg wasn't going to be interested in Nebraska. 1:33:36.040 --> 1:33:38.680 I said, what you've done in seven years, um, and 1:33:38.800 --> 1:33:42.040 elevated the visibility of the program. To put that program, 1:33:42.360 --> 1:33:44.360 you know, headed in the right direction. A guy like 1:33:44.479 --> 1:33:47.680 Fred Hoiberg now once that job and and that what 1:33:47.880 --> 1:33:51.599 ultimately got you is what you should probably be most 1:33:51.640 --> 1:33:53.760 proud of is because you've set that job up in 1:33:53.840 --> 1:33:57.000 the position where somebody like Fred, you know, wants to 1:33:57.080 --> 1:33:59.240 take over. I think it's a great time, uh, to 1:33:59.320 --> 1:34:01.959 take over the agram at Nebraska. You've got an unbelievable 1:34:01.960 --> 1:34:04.679 fan base, facilities, everything. You just got to get players 1:34:05.479 --> 1:34:08.000 to want to be there. And I said, hopefully they 1:34:08.040 --> 1:34:10.080 can achieve that. But I think the best thing that 1:34:10.200 --> 1:34:12.320 I was, the thing I respect the most about him 1:34:12.439 --> 1:34:15.439 is how he's how he kind of started like he 1:34:15.520 --> 1:34:17.400 didn't have Like he didn't play Division one like you 1:34:17.479 --> 1:34:19.439 and I. You know, he like he didn't play for 1:34:19.600 --> 1:34:22.640 legendary coaches like you and I. UM, like he you know, 1:34:22.800 --> 1:34:25.240 he was a n a I a guy that you 1:34:25.320 --> 1:34:28.240 know wasn't good enough to play, became a student assistant 1:34:28.600 --> 1:34:31.320 and just worked himself all the way up to Nebraska. 1:34:31.400 --> 1:34:33.000 And I think that's the hell of a story for him, 1:34:33.040 --> 1:34:36.000 because you don't you don't just wind up in Nebraska, 1:34:36.600 --> 1:34:37.920 you know, you don't wind up in the power of 1:34:38.000 --> 1:34:40.880 five head job. Um. And just how he's gone about it, 1:34:41.400 --> 1:34:43.400 um to get to where he got, I think is 1:34:43.520 --> 1:34:46.040 an unbelievable story. So just you know, that little ship 1:34:46.160 --> 1:34:48.400 he has on his on his shoulder to kind of 1:34:48.439 --> 1:34:51.559 prove everybody wrong. Um, you know, I think is one 1:34:51.600 --> 1:34:56.120 of his his greatest qualities. So you're cleaning at your 1:34:56.160 --> 1:35:00.719 garage right at in in Lincoln, but like you're because 1:35:00.720 --> 1:35:02.400 you're moving or you're just your wife is like, go 1:35:02.560 --> 1:35:06.080 clean the drage. You're annoying me. No, when when you 1:35:06.160 --> 1:35:09.280 spend a winter in Lincoln, Nebraska, like you you drag 1:35:09.400 --> 1:35:13.479 snow and salt all that stuff into your garage and 1:35:14.479 --> 1:35:17.240 when you're when you're unemployed. Um, you know, I was 1:35:17.360 --> 1:35:21.080 very fortunate in Nebraska. They had another year on my contract, 1:35:21.160 --> 1:35:22.920 so I didn't have to do anything. I could have 1:35:23.760 --> 1:35:26.320 could have kind of been a bump for for twelve months, 1:35:26.360 --> 1:35:29.599 but our fourteen months whatever it was gonna be. But um, 1:35:30.320 --> 1:35:33.080 you live in Lincoln, Nebraska. You when the spring comes 1:35:33.120 --> 1:35:34.800 and the weather breaks, you've got to get all that 1:35:35.439 --> 1:35:38.040 that snow and winter junk out of your garage. Otherwise 1:35:38.080 --> 1:35:40.840 you just continue to track it into your house. So, um, 1:35:41.120 --> 1:35:43.400 when you're unemployed, your your wife's picks a day and 1:35:43.680 --> 1:35:45.519 and you and her just go to the garage and 1:35:45.720 --> 1:35:48.280 you're going to clean out the garage. So that's what 1:35:48.400 --> 1:35:50.439 I was doing. And I got a little people on 1:35:50.479 --> 1:35:54.360 my phone and happened to be mccron So okay, so 1:35:54.479 --> 1:35:56.400 you pick up the phone and did you have his 1:35:56.520 --> 1:35:58.840 number saved? Like did you say mcronin? Or is this 1:35:59.040 --> 1:36:02.519 like uh Cincinnati number? Is it an l a number game? 1:36:02.560 --> 1:36:05.320 What is it? No, it was, it was it was 1:36:05.439 --> 1:36:07.360 I got mixed number on my song like I was 1:36:07.439 --> 1:36:09.120 at when I was at Eastern Illinois, like he was 1:36:09.160 --> 1:36:11.640 at Merge State. He was the head coach of Merge State. Um, 1:36:11.800 --> 1:36:13.760 so we competed against each other a little bit there 1:36:13.880 --> 1:36:17.000 while as a butler, we played Cincinnati, um, you know, 1:36:17.120 --> 1:36:20.080 and so we we had a relationship where, um, you know, 1:36:20.160 --> 1:36:23.040 we've exchanged a few texts, you know, a year of cinema, 1:36:23.920 --> 1:36:26.080 you know, like the wine emoji or something. After a 1:36:26.160 --> 1:36:29.360 big win, say congrats to him or something. And I 1:36:29.439 --> 1:36:31.720 think he would watch our teams play, you know, late 1:36:31.720 --> 1:36:34.559 at nine different things, and if we won a big game, 1:36:34.640 --> 1:36:36.920 you know I'd get a you know, a text or 1:36:36.960 --> 1:36:39.280 two a year congrats or you know, good luck or 1:36:39.360 --> 1:36:42.080 thinking obvious things like that. We would see each other 1:36:42.200 --> 1:36:44.840 on the road recruiting always say hi, hit chat a 1:36:44.920 --> 1:36:47.920 little bit. You know how that stuff goes. But um, yeah, 1:36:48.000 --> 1:36:49.800 it popped up mccronin and it was just say, just 1:36:49.880 --> 1:36:53.519 checking in on you, Um, you know, how are things going? 1:36:53.600 --> 1:36:56.519 And he had he had just recently got the usually job. 1:36:57.080 --> 1:36:59.599 And uh, you know, as it was you know, things 1:36:59.640 --> 1:37:01.000 are good, I said, not as good as they're going 1:37:01.080 --> 1:37:04.360 for you. You know, it's you've just gotten gotten this job. 1:37:04.479 --> 1:37:07.320 But um, that's kind of how things things got started. 1:37:07.360 --> 1:37:11.320 And we just started talking from there. So so you 1:37:11.520 --> 1:37:13.120 you get to have you ever been to u c 1:37:13.200 --> 1:37:15.800 l A before you took the job? I had driven 1:37:16.080 --> 1:37:19.280 uh by campus. I've been out here recruiting a few times. 1:37:19.320 --> 1:37:22.439 There was a there was a big Adida's tournament out here. 1:37:23.080 --> 1:37:25.439 Um you know that I always come to and and 1:37:25.760 --> 1:37:28.280 uh it was in the old recruiting calendar. It was 1:37:28.360 --> 1:37:30.920 the end of the second week. Um, you know, whether 1:37:31.000 --> 1:37:34.320 it was Verdondall Beach or in Anaheim, A couple of 1:37:34.360 --> 1:37:36.439 different tournaments that I would come out here in recruit. 1:37:36.520 --> 1:37:39.720 So I had been in the area a few times, obviously. Um. 1:37:39.880 --> 1:37:41.960 It doesn't matter where you grow up. You know of 1:37:42.120 --> 1:37:45.000 U c l A. You know in their basketball program, 1:37:45.080 --> 1:37:47.760 their history, their tradition, the players like you know, all 1:37:47.840 --> 1:37:51.880 that stuff. I don't care where you grow up. Um. So, 1:37:52.400 --> 1:37:54.840 but to get out here in the field every day 1:37:54.880 --> 1:37:57.880 and to be around it every day, um, obviously, I 1:37:57.960 --> 1:38:01.000 mean special is not an ad to of it's that's 1:38:01.000 --> 1:38:04.439 good enough to explain it. But um, you know, I'm 1:38:04.520 --> 1:38:07.479 kind of a I'm a small town Indiana guy, I respect. 1:38:07.760 --> 1:38:09.920 I love going to work in Hincklefield House every day 1:38:09.920 --> 1:38:14.400 because of of you know what that that Jim stood for. 1:38:14.600 --> 1:38:17.720 I love playing in the sim Way hall. Um. You know, 1:38:17.840 --> 1:38:20.920 I like the I like the old stuff, like you know, 1:38:21.200 --> 1:38:23.880 and and to be a part of this, this university. 1:38:23.920 --> 1:38:25.960 And and just think of the guys who have been 1:38:26.000 --> 1:38:28.519 here and walking to the PAULI like when you have 1:38:28.680 --> 1:38:32.320 you ever walked in that hallway, lean out of um downstairs, 1:38:32.439 --> 1:38:34.240 off the court and into the locker room. Have you 1:38:34.280 --> 1:38:37.960 ever been in that hallway? But yeah, the greatest hallway 1:38:38.000 --> 1:38:40.760 in college basketball, they call it. I mean that if 1:38:40.840 --> 1:38:42.680 that doesn't get you, being like a guy like you 1:38:42.760 --> 1:38:44.720 and I I mean, I don't know what I mean. 1:38:44.760 --> 1:38:48.719 It's obviously a special place and I'm very very fortunate 1:38:48.800 --> 1:38:52.000 too to be able to represent it in a very 1:38:52.080 --> 1:38:55.519 small way. Um, have you found a good place to 1:38:55.560 --> 1:38:58.840 get a course? Like? Well, that's that's been the most 1:38:58.920 --> 1:39:01.280 difficult thing. And like if you were to ask me, 1:39:01.400 --> 1:39:04.640 what is the most surprising thing about being here at 1:39:04.720 --> 1:39:07.080 U c. L A Is the difficulty in finding a 1:39:07.360 --> 1:39:10.720 good ice cold cores? L Um? You know, you go 1:39:10.840 --> 1:39:13.120 to these different restaurants and everybody's got their own little 1:39:13.800 --> 1:39:16.720 beer selection and and all the different breweries and I 1:39:16.840 --> 1:39:18.599 P A s and different things. And I'm a pretty 1:39:18.640 --> 1:39:20.920 simple guy, as you know, Like I just need an 1:39:20.920 --> 1:39:22.720 ice cold cores. Like but I did. I found a 1:39:22.760 --> 1:39:26.120 seven eleven, Um, got it, got it, got a twelve 1:39:26.160 --> 1:39:28.880 pack and put it in my hotel fridge. And so 1:39:29.160 --> 1:39:33.400 I'll be okay, so I get settled. Um, okay, Uh, 1:39:35.040 --> 1:39:37.720 last thing, all of these experiences and and look, you 1:39:37.800 --> 1:39:40.040 still you want your first job, right, you want your 1:39:40.080 --> 1:39:45.560 first head head coaching job. UM, what what what is 1:39:45.600 --> 1:39:51.000 it gonna take for you to get the right opportunity? Well, 1:39:51.800 --> 1:39:55.200 you know, the older I get, you know, I try 1:39:55.280 --> 1:39:57.479 not it's like looking back. I try not to look 1:39:57.560 --> 1:40:02.680 too too far forward. I think, UM, when an opportunity 1:40:02.720 --> 1:40:06.720 presents itself, it's the right one for me. UM. You know, 1:40:06.800 --> 1:40:08.400 I have a kind of a vision of what that's 1:40:08.400 --> 1:40:11.240 going to be. It's gonna be where you Um, you 1:40:11.360 --> 1:40:15.200 have an opportunity to be successful. UM. You know things 1:40:15.240 --> 1:40:18.519 are in place to be successful and and UM, that's 1:40:18.840 --> 1:40:21.240 that's so much more to me than than just the 1:40:21.320 --> 1:40:25.280 basketball program. Like do you have UM you know, is 1:40:25.360 --> 1:40:29.519 your your president and the university administration, UM, your athletic 1:40:29.600 --> 1:40:34.240 director and the athletic administration, UM and myself where we 1:40:34.320 --> 1:40:36.920 walk in hand in hand and trying to achieve the 1:40:36.960 --> 1:40:40.720 same things. UM. And I think when you find that, 1:40:41.280 --> 1:40:45.720 that's that's when you ultimately can have the most success. UM. 1:40:46.120 --> 1:40:48.880 And I think that that is what we're trying to 1:40:49.000 --> 1:40:50.760 get to right now here in u c l A. 1:40:50.840 --> 1:40:52.519 I think it's a great opportunity to come be a 1:40:52.600 --> 1:40:55.000 part of it. UM. But that's what I'm looking for 1:40:55.240 --> 1:40:58.559 in my first job. I don't I'm not too concerned 1:40:58.560 --> 1:41:01.680 about little major and minor major high major like. UM. 1:41:02.160 --> 1:41:05.600 I just wanna, you know, right now, make um U 1:41:05.680 --> 1:41:07.439 c l A as good as we possibly can make it. 1:41:07.680 --> 1:41:10.600 And if we do that, then the next opportunity is 1:41:10.640 --> 1:41:13.240 gonna come my way. But I do have a vision 1:41:13.280 --> 1:41:15.439 of what I want to what I wanted to look like, 1:41:15.560 --> 1:41:17.680 how I wanted to feel. I've been very fortunate to 1:41:17.720 --> 1:41:20.920 be around um you know, we've talked a little bit 1:41:20.920 --> 1:41:24.880 about all of them, uh some unbelievable coaches. UM. I 1:41:25.000 --> 1:41:28.320 know what success feels like. UM, I know the type 1:41:28.360 --> 1:41:30.439 of people that it that it takes to be around 1:41:30.479 --> 1:41:34.320 the program to have that type of success. UM and 1:41:34.800 --> 1:41:37.680 and uh so I realized how fortunate I've been, and 1:41:37.760 --> 1:41:40.160 I hope to get that opportunity in the future. But 1:41:40.800 --> 1:41:42.880 when that comes, it will come, you know. Right now, 1:41:42.960 --> 1:41:46.720 I'm I'm trying to to help these guys enjoy their experience. 1:41:47.120 --> 1:41:49.559 At three thirty when we work out again. All right, 1:41:49.800 --> 1:41:52.320 I got I got two or three more. Your favorite 1:41:52.439 --> 1:41:58.519 high school gym in Indiana is what Memorial Gymnasium, Huntingburg, Indiana. 1:41:58.960 --> 1:42:02.000 It's it's about seven and miles south of jas where 1:42:02.040 --> 1:42:05.240 it's where our our sexual tournament was, which was in 1:42:05.280 --> 1:42:08.720 the first round of the state tournament when I was there. Uh, 1:42:10.160 --> 1:42:12.280 it's it's kind of like Polly where you just see 1:42:12.320 --> 1:42:14.920 the roof and it goes down into the ground. Um. 1:42:15.360 --> 1:42:19.799 It held about seven thousand people on on on tournament 1:42:19.920 --> 1:42:21.960 nights and it was it was sold out with all 1:42:22.040 --> 1:42:30.639 the town COMMUNI Huntingburg, Indiana, Huntingburg South roof graders. Yeah, 1:42:30.880 --> 1:42:35.200 small little town about seven miles south of JASP. So, Um, 1:42:37.880 --> 1:42:39.360 I could go back, if I could go back and 1:42:39.479 --> 1:42:41.320 play one more game, Like if I could go back 1:42:41.880 --> 1:42:44.920 and like the knees don't hurt. Everything is, everything is 1:42:44.960 --> 1:42:47.600 back when you were eighteen years old. Like that's what 1:42:49.120 --> 1:42:51.840 I'm looking at pictures of it. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, 1:42:52.800 --> 1:42:56.040 it's cool. It was hot in there, it'd be it'd 1:42:56.080 --> 1:42:58.559 be Oh, it's always so hot in there with all 1:42:58.600 --> 1:43:04.439 the people. It's right, Okay, Uh favorite favorite big ten arena. 1:43:06.439 --> 1:43:10.479 Sim I mean that was you getting more softball for me? No, 1:43:10.640 --> 1:43:13.559 I'm just okay. So tell me something about about I've 1:43:13.600 --> 1:43:16.960 shared previously. My my, my nightmare. We got blown up. 1:43:16.960 --> 1:43:21.639 We're down forty fourteen at IU in January, in February 1:43:21.640 --> 1:43:26.439 and see me in the November of Andre Patterson threw 1:43:26.479 --> 1:43:28.559 a block a shot. He threw a shot of mine 1:43:28.600 --> 1:43:30.759 into the third row. I think he hit John Mellencamp 1:43:30.800 --> 1:43:33.880 actually with the basketball. UM. And that was on the 1:43:33.960 --> 1:43:36.200 beginning of sports centers, Like are you ready for sports Center? 1:43:36.240 --> 1:43:38.320 It's like, no, it was like that that was my 1:43:38.400 --> 1:43:41.479 shot that he just rejected. Uh, you tell me something 1:43:41.520 --> 1:43:44.280 about you know, you tell me about the greatest was 1:43:44.320 --> 1:43:46.320 it hallway in college basketball at U c l A. 1:43:46.800 --> 1:43:49.519 What's that's the coolest part about about Assembly Hall that 1:43:49.640 --> 1:43:55.560 only somebody who played their nose, Um, I would like. 1:43:55.760 --> 1:43:57.960 I like going in there when it was when it 1:43:58.080 --> 1:44:01.519 was empty. Yeah, and like all the lights were on, 1:44:01.720 --> 1:44:03.360 like just you know, some of the flood lights that 1:44:03.439 --> 1:44:06.040 they would you know, have on, like when when you 1:44:06.080 --> 1:44:08.160 were able to get in there when you probably weren't 1:44:08.160 --> 1:44:11.640 supposed to. Um, you know that was that was my 1:44:11.720 --> 1:44:14.439 favorite time. He was kind of going there and look 1:44:14.479 --> 1:44:17.160 around and and uh have that feeling. It was. He 1:44:17.280 --> 1:44:19.280 was interesting. We took our team that we went there 1:44:19.360 --> 1:44:23.400 this year. Uh and and we we went and shot 1:44:23.439 --> 1:44:26.599 around the night before with with some of our guys 1:44:26.640 --> 1:44:28.000 that went in the night before because we did a 1:44:28.000 --> 1:44:29.800 shoot around on game day, but the night before we 1:44:30.000 --> 1:44:31.840 we was always have cyber. These guys want to go 1:44:31.880 --> 1:44:35.400 get some extra shots and and um, you know, Izy 1:44:35.479 --> 1:44:37.719 Copeland was still healthy at the time when he was shooting, 1:44:38.040 --> 1:44:41.439 and uh, he's like, He's like, coach, you can you 1:44:41.520 --> 1:44:44.280 can like almost feel the history in here, you know, 1:44:44.720 --> 1:44:46.800 And now I'm I'm coaching a different team in there, 1:44:46.880 --> 1:44:48.599 you know. So I'm trying to combat that. Like, I mean, 1:44:48.640 --> 1:44:51.800 I understood exactly what he was saying, but I'm like, dude, listen, 1:44:51.840 --> 1:44:54.519 those those five banners. They're not playing tomorrow night. You know, 1:44:54.600 --> 1:44:56.840 those banners. They're not scoring any point. You know. I'm 1:44:56.840 --> 1:44:58.160 trying to get him out of that mode. But I 1:44:58.240 --> 1:45:01.160 knew exactly what he was what he was talking about 1:45:01.360 --> 1:45:03.120 and feeling the history. And you feel that same thing 1:45:03.960 --> 1:45:06.080 when you're on this campus. You walk into PAULI Like, 1:45:06.160 --> 1:45:08.240 you look up and you've got those loving banners hanging 1:45:08.320 --> 1:45:10.040 up there, and you've got the jerseys of those guys 1:45:10.080 --> 1:45:13.719 hanging up there, like like you feel, uh, you feel 1:45:13.760 --> 1:45:15.920 that history, you feel that tradition, and that's what makes 1:45:15.960 --> 1:45:18.800 those places so special. I got I got to share 1:45:18.800 --> 1:45:21.000 with you. Jason, call your story, so call your visited 1:45:21.080 --> 1:45:23.600 us at Notre Dame before going to you guys, and 1:45:23.680 --> 1:45:26.479 we thought we had a shot. And uh, we had 1:45:26.479 --> 1:45:28.840 a guy named Gary bells as nutfellow freshman, and I 1:45:28.880 --> 1:45:30.680 remember our coaches called us in. They're like, hey, look 1:45:31.200 --> 1:45:33.840 we've got Jason Caller coming this week uh with the 1:45:33.920 --> 1:45:36.400 kid Jason Caller and the and the Babel twins came 1:45:36.439 --> 1:45:39.400 in same weekend. So like three best white guys in 1:45:39.400 --> 1:45:46.760 America coming in and uh and um and so uh 1:45:46.880 --> 1:45:49.120 they call us in and you know, like as freshman, 1:45:49.160 --> 1:45:51.160 you're gonna be a host and pat Gary is a sophomore, 1:45:51.160 --> 1:45:55.519 he's a host. Hey look, Caller is a great dude, 1:45:55.560 --> 1:45:57.639 great player, but he does not drink, he does not smoke, 1:45:57.760 --> 1:46:01.760 and he doesn't like cursing. It's very leges like all right, 1:46:01.920 --> 1:46:08.439 well fine, all false information, by the way, all false information. Okay, 1:46:08.800 --> 1:46:12.600 So so so we which I'm sure, so right, So 1:46:12.720 --> 1:46:15.560 we get uh they come pick me up in my 1:46:15.640 --> 1:46:17.479 dorm and then we go rolling. We go down to 1:46:17.560 --> 1:46:19.840 Gary Bell's dorm which is like two dorms down and 1:46:19.960 --> 1:46:22.799 literally opened the door and he's got like a cigar 1:46:23.120 --> 1:46:26.000 in his mouth and forties in his arms, Like, what's 1:46:26.080 --> 1:46:30.840 up fellas this pregame? You know, Um, but I never 1:46:30.960 --> 1:46:33.640 forget that, he said. He's like we knew he was 1:46:33.680 --> 1:46:35.840 going to the end because he's like, man, coach Knight 1:46:35.960 --> 1:46:39.559 was amazing, Like my grandma loves him. He's so funny 1:46:40.160 --> 1:46:42.519 to you know, like he people got them all wrong, 1:46:42.600 --> 1:46:44.280 which people do have him had him kind of them 1:46:44.280 --> 1:46:46.960 all wrong. But he's like, you know, he doesn't curse 1:46:47.000 --> 1:46:49.000 all the time. That's like totally overdone. And we're like, 1:46:49.200 --> 1:46:53.840 a dude, what give me your your How good a 1:46:53.920 --> 1:46:56.160 host were you when you're at IU when you we 1:46:56.240 --> 1:46:59.519 had a host a recruit? How good were you? Well? 1:46:59.680 --> 1:47:01.560 I like to think I was pretty good. We we 1:47:01.680 --> 1:47:04.000 got we got a lot of the guys I hosted. Um, 1:47:04.520 --> 1:47:08.320 you know, now like the circasing story, he was he 1:47:08.439 --> 1:47:11.680 was an NBA draft pick, but um, you know he 1:47:11.800 --> 1:47:15.000 came to campus and and uh, you know, like hey, 1:47:15.240 --> 1:47:17.439 you you know there's a party here, there's a party here, 1:47:17.520 --> 1:47:18.680 you know, like what do you want to do? And 1:47:18.920 --> 1:47:21.600 he was just like I just I really want some 1:47:21.680 --> 1:47:23.719 steak and shake and just take me back to the hotel. 1:47:24.080 --> 1:47:26.519 So I'm like, this guy is from small town Tennessee, 1:47:26.640 --> 1:47:29.000 like where there's no way we're getting this guy. So 1:47:29.120 --> 1:47:30.840 we went and got him a couple of cheeseburgers and 1:47:31.439 --> 1:47:33.799 took his host money and went down to the party 1:47:33.840 --> 1:47:35.840 and had a hell of a good time. But and 1:47:35.960 --> 1:47:37.960 he ended up coming in the NIB a pretty good player. 1:47:38.040 --> 1:47:40.360 But like, I think some of those visits are overrated. 1:47:40.600 --> 1:47:43.160 You know, each each guy is different, like you see 1:47:43.160 --> 1:47:45.280 it in recruiting. What they're looking for, what their family 1:47:45.439 --> 1:47:47.880 looking for, um, And it's just got to be a fit. 1:47:48.080 --> 1:47:49.920 And I know it was for me when I walked 1:47:49.960 --> 1:47:52.560 on campus, like you know, like the but now some 1:47:52.640 --> 1:47:54.479 of the best host times that we had, like and 1:47:54.520 --> 1:47:56.400 we're like, oh this dude had a blast. Who getting him? 1:47:56.400 --> 1:47:59.760 Didn't get him getting you know, I know, but I do. 1:48:00.560 --> 1:48:02.600 I do think that some of it is also for 1:48:03.120 --> 1:48:04.720 like we used to Oklahoma State. We used to use 1:48:04.760 --> 1:48:07.160 it because we had a boat. Right there were guys 1:48:07.200 --> 1:48:08.640 that we went to. We went to the coaches like 1:48:08.960 --> 1:48:12.519 he's not one of us, Like no, no thanks, and 1:48:12.680 --> 1:48:15.160 like really like now we we we think this guy 1:48:15.240 --> 1:48:20.479 is awesome, Like no, not at all. Um, Yeah, and 1:48:20.920 --> 1:48:23.719 we five his visit. He came in for a football 1:48:23.800 --> 1:48:25.839 weekend and we were supposed to take him the football 1:48:25.880 --> 1:48:28.519 game and he didn't want to go, and he wanted 1:48:28.520 --> 1:48:31.680 to sit in my apartment and eat Buffal Louis and 1:48:31.760 --> 1:48:36.160 watch Michigan play Michigan football game on on ABC. So 1:48:36.439 --> 1:48:38.360 when coach asked, hey, what do you guys do yesterday? 1:48:38.360 --> 1:48:39.840 How was the football game? Like, well, we didn't go, 1:48:40.320 --> 1:48:41.760 but what do you do? And I was like, well, 1:48:41.800 --> 1:48:43.479 we set in my apartment at Buffal Louis and we 1:48:43.520 --> 1:48:46.160 watched Michigan play I don't know whoever they were playing 1:48:46.160 --> 1:48:48.680 on TV, and like coach Knight was all piste off 1:48:48.720 --> 1:48:50.960 of me, but we ended up getting, you know. But 1:48:51.400 --> 1:48:52.920 like he didn't want to go. I don't blame you. 1:48:53.120 --> 1:48:54.800 We didn't go down you games when I was playing, 1:48:55.200 --> 1:48:56.720 like you know, like you said at home, we don't 1:48:56.720 --> 1:48:58.400 watched Michigan Notre Dame and like that's what we did, 1:48:58.720 --> 1:49:01.120 you know, um, And that's that's what we got. And 1:49:01.240 --> 1:49:03.400 he wanted to watch Michigan on his iucause he wanted 1:49:03.400 --> 1:49:06.040 to watch Michigan play football. Um, so that's what we 1:49:06.080 --> 1:49:10.519 did and we ended up getting. So that's actually amazing. 1:49:10.880 --> 1:49:14.360 I've had five I've had five, Okay, last thing. Uh, 1:49:15.439 --> 1:49:19.559 the best guy that you love seeing on the road. Okay, 1:49:20.120 --> 1:49:23.360 we have like somebody we have not just that You're 1:49:23.360 --> 1:49:26.000 just like, look, I've been a basketball coach for twenty years. 1:49:26.520 --> 1:49:28.240 This is a this is a great dude that people 1:49:28.280 --> 1:49:32.480 should know about. UM, well, I'll give you an assistant, 1:49:32.560 --> 1:49:35.000 and I'll give you a head coach assistant. Like I 1:49:35.840 --> 1:49:39.880 met Lucadino who's now at Wishantall State. UM, he's been 1:49:39.920 --> 1:49:42.599 a friend of mine since we were in college. UM, 1:49:42.880 --> 1:49:45.840 and so I always enjoy sitting and talking with him, 1:49:45.920 --> 1:49:47.880 just kind of catching up from like as a friend thing, 1:49:48.520 --> 1:49:53.200 UM as as a coaching thing. Like I've Um, I 1:49:53.240 --> 1:49:55.880 don't even know if Roy Williams knows my name, but 1:49:56.479 --> 1:50:00.160 he has been extremely gracious to me every time I've 1:50:00.200 --> 1:50:03.200 seen him. And if he doesn't know my name, I 1:50:03.240 --> 1:50:05.560 wouldn't know it from our interactions. He'll sit down and 1:50:05.680 --> 1:50:09.160 he'll talk, and you know, we'll we'll end up talking 1:50:09.240 --> 1:50:11.400 for two or three games, and you know, I'll ask 1:50:11.479 --> 1:50:13.720 him about you know, he's always got buddies with him 1:50:13.760 --> 1:50:15.880 and his golf trips and he tells me all about it, 1:50:16.000 --> 1:50:19.759 and it kind of reminds you of sitting down talking 1:50:19.800 --> 1:50:22.840 to your grandfather, you know, and just you know, all 1:50:22.880 --> 1:50:24.560 the good stories he has, and he'll get he's a 1:50:24.640 --> 1:50:27.280 great storyteller, and he just starts telling all these great stories. 1:50:27.320 --> 1:50:29.880 And I just enjoy sitting there, you know, listening to him. 1:50:29.920 --> 1:50:31.240 And unlike I said, I don't even know if he 1:50:31.320 --> 1:50:33.240 knows he knows what my name is. But every time 1:50:33.320 --> 1:50:37.640 I see him, um, you know, and we're within a 1:50:37.680 --> 1:50:39.880 close vicinity, we end up we end up talking, and 1:50:40.560 --> 1:50:42.400 and I've always enjoyed those times. It's pretty cool. For 1:50:42.439 --> 1:50:45.759 a guy like me, it's pretty cool. Yeah, for anybody, 1:50:45.760 --> 1:50:49.080 it's pretty cool. Anybody's pretty cool. He doesn't like me, 1:50:49.200 --> 1:50:52.280 He's he he doesn't like me. So he used to 1:50:52.360 --> 1:50:53.960 really be nice to me. He was super nice to 1:50:54.000 --> 1:50:56.720 my dad, and I always thought he's he's like the 1:50:56.880 --> 1:51:00.640 world's greatest dude, and he doesn't like me because the 1:51:00.800 --> 1:51:03.280 information he was given on what I said on CBS 1:51:03.400 --> 1:51:06.559 was not terribly accurate. But whatever I said, I said, 1:51:07.320 --> 1:51:09.479 I said, uh, you know, like, look, people wonder this 1:51:09.520 --> 1:51:11.320 is back when he had his knees were bad and 1:51:11.960 --> 1:51:14.120 he had the spins. You know, he gets that kind 1:51:14.120 --> 1:51:15.519 of like once a year. And I was like, look, 1:51:15.560 --> 1:51:17.800 people wonder if he wins a Nation chanship, he'll retire, 1:51:17.880 --> 1:51:20.360 like a legit discussion within the sport. And so it 1:51:20.439 --> 1:51:22.519 got kind of spun around too. I said Roy Williams 1:51:22.600 --> 1:51:24.439 gonna retire. It's like, no, that's not what I said. 1:51:24.479 --> 1:51:27.439 But whatever, I do think, I think he's amazing. Uh, 1:51:27.600 --> 1:51:32.719 he's interesting dude and probably the greatest head coach recruiter 1:51:33.600 --> 1:51:36.160 that there has ever been. Right, Like, I think self 1:51:36.280 --> 1:51:38.920 is really good. But you know, like Roy Williams used, 1:51:39.080 --> 1:51:40.880 he still does. He comes, he sits down in midcourt 1:51:40.880 --> 1:51:43.960 whoever somebody he wants, he comes and sits down mid courts. 1:51:44.000 --> 1:51:45.840 Everybody knows Roy Williams there and he makes it a 1:51:45.920 --> 1:51:49.479 personal quest to get that one guy and or or 1:51:49.600 --> 1:51:52.880 whatever those guys are. And he has an unbelievable level 1:51:52.920 --> 1:51:56.639 of energy for recruiting still and uh, and he does. 1:51:56.720 --> 1:51:58.800 He does have his He he does roll deep like 1:51:58.880 --> 1:52:01.000 he's funny. He's kind of got a positive like who 1:52:01.080 --> 1:52:04.960 are those guys? Like those are Roy Williams guys? Like okay, yeah, 1:52:05.400 --> 1:52:07.360 there there's boys and they're just itching that He's got 1:52:07.400 --> 1:52:08.840 to watch a game or two and they're itching to 1:52:08.880 --> 1:52:10.920 get out to hit the hit the golf course or 1:52:10.960 --> 1:52:14.360 the closest casino and and uh, you know, good for him. 1:52:14.400 --> 1:52:18.160 I think he's learned that that right to do that stuff. Um. 1:52:18.479 --> 1:52:23.560 How what's a reasonable what's a reasonable expectation for U 1:52:23.680 --> 1:52:28.920 C l A Over the first couple of years. Uh, 1:52:29.840 --> 1:52:32.280 you know, I think that's difficult. Like I'm still learning 1:52:33.040 --> 1:52:36.160 our personnel. Um. You know, I think when you first 1:52:36.200 --> 1:52:38.920 get in here with the open recruiting period, you're you're 1:52:39.000 --> 1:52:42.560 really focused on the recruiting aspect. Um. I think we 1:52:42.640 --> 1:52:45.760 have some talented kids on this team. Um. I think, 1:52:46.479 --> 1:52:50.320 um that they will if if we can get them 1:52:51.120 --> 1:52:55.519 to there's a there's this big misconception about Mick and 1:52:55.680 --> 1:52:59.479 offensive defense. But if we can get these guys to 1:52:59.600 --> 1:53:02.559 defend in the way that I believe that they're capable 1:53:02.640 --> 1:53:07.080 of based on their athleticism, um, and you couple it 1:53:07.240 --> 1:53:09.960 with their offensive abilities, and then we're going to have 1:53:10.120 --> 1:53:13.800 an opportunity to have uh some success. Um. Now, if 1:53:13.920 --> 1:53:16.519 if we don't do that, like like scoring points was 1:53:16.520 --> 1:53:19.519 not a problem for this basketball team, um, you know, 1:53:19.760 --> 1:53:22.400 defending guys, you know was And so we've we've got 1:53:22.479 --> 1:53:24.960 to get that mentality and that focus. They've got to 1:53:25.040 --> 1:53:29.760 realize UM with all their abilities on one end, if 1:53:29.800 --> 1:53:32.200 they can if they can pick it up on the other, Uh, 1:53:32.360 --> 1:53:34.080 it can. It can lead to winning. And that's got 1:53:34.160 --> 1:53:36.240 to become important to them. You know, the highlight play 1:53:36.600 --> 1:53:38.800 has got to become secondary. Winning has got to become 1:53:39.840 --> 1:53:42.719 number one and and everything that they want to achieve 1:53:43.600 --> 1:53:46.120 will be right their form and and UH, it's been 1:53:46.160 --> 1:53:47.760 a fun group to work with. Like I'm looking, I'm 1:53:47.760 --> 1:53:49.600 excited about three thirty to day to get out with 1:53:49.680 --> 1:53:51.519 them for our second work out of the summer. I 1:53:51.560 --> 1:53:53.760 gotta work out with them for about about a week 1:53:53.800 --> 1:53:57.439 when I first got here with the quarter system finishing UM. 1:53:57.560 --> 1:53:59.120 So we're still kind of get to know each other. 1:53:59.160 --> 1:54:01.200 They're getting a better feel for make and what he's 1:54:01.240 --> 1:54:03.599 looking for you to win. A lot of teaching UM, 1:54:03.760 --> 1:54:08.320 and these guys have been very they've responded very well UM. 1:54:08.560 --> 1:54:11.120 And and obviously they're trying to impress a new staff 1:54:11.200 --> 1:54:14.000 and and but I think it's a good group UM 1:54:14.400 --> 1:54:17.360 with some with a very high ceiling. UM. There's just 1:54:17.439 --> 1:54:21.720 some some habits that that I've gone awry and we've 1:54:21.760 --> 1:54:24.080 got to tighten some things up. But it's gonna be 1:54:24.120 --> 1:54:26.080 fun to work with. And I think if if we 1:54:26.160 --> 1:54:29.559 can we can recruit the right side of kids um 1:54:30.520 --> 1:54:32.800 that are about the right things, and you couple that 1:54:32.920 --> 1:54:35.320 with the level of talent that you can attract your 1:54:35.440 --> 1:54:38.320 musil a um, then we can do some special things. 1:54:38.400 --> 1:54:41.320 And that's what I'm looking forward to, no question, no question. 1:54:41.360 --> 1:54:43.680 All right, man, I've taken enough of your time. Best 1:54:43.720 --> 1:54:46.520 of luck finding actual watering holes with course light. I 1:54:46.560 --> 1:54:48.840 will I will make my personal quest. I I think 1:54:48.880 --> 1:54:50.520 the places you're looking to live you have a better 1:54:50.600 --> 1:54:53.920 chance than than right around the campus in Westwood in 1:54:53.960 --> 1:54:57.800 the meantime, But thanks for hunt. When when my family 1:54:57.840 --> 1:54:59.520 gets up here, and then you're gonna like I made 1:54:59.560 --> 1:55:01.800 that trip on your spot. Now, when my family gets 1:55:01.840 --> 1:55:04.760 out here in middle mid July, we'll have you up 1:55:04.760 --> 1:55:06.960 and have a barbecue, and I promise you I will 1:55:07.000 --> 1:55:10.760 have found um. I already know what to bring. This 1:55:10.920 --> 1:55:12.680 is so easy, Like I hate bringing over like a 1:55:12.800 --> 1:55:15.760 bottle of wine. How about that bad bottle of wine. 1:55:15.760 --> 1:55:17.560 I hope you threw that bottle of wine. That place 1:55:17.640 --> 1:55:19.720 I had to stop at next to your house was 1:55:19.920 --> 1:55:23.440 like the place to go And why did you do that? 1:55:23.720 --> 1:55:25.440 Why did you do that? Like it was very thoughtful 1:55:25.560 --> 1:55:27.160 don't get me wrong. It was the first time I 1:55:27.240 --> 1:55:29.040 was going to meet your wife. It was the first 1:55:29.040 --> 1:55:31.080 time I was going to meet your wife. And I 1:55:31.280 --> 1:55:32.880 was like, I gotta show, like I can't just be 1:55:33.000 --> 1:55:35.600 the dude that just shows up, right. So I don't 1:55:35.640 --> 1:55:38.000 know I was, I was. I don't know, I was 1:55:38.040 --> 1:55:39.680 just not being who I am. Like I'm I've got 1:55:39.840 --> 1:55:42.160 pretty comfortable of my own skin, and I was I 1:55:42.240 --> 1:55:44.600 was trying to be nice and and and get a 1:55:44.640 --> 1:55:46.320 bottle of wine. And I'm sure it was. It was 1:55:46.640 --> 1:55:48.080 very nice, but it's you know, it's like it's like 1:55:48.200 --> 1:55:50.840 that kiss on the cheek thing that people do like 1:55:51.920 --> 1:55:54.120 and like you get into, you get into. I go 1:55:54.200 --> 1:55:56.560 to a party and people like come with you. You're like, 1:55:57.040 --> 1:55:59.920 we're not French. I don't do that. So I'm not 1:56:00.040 --> 1:56:01.760 gonna do that because it's not who I am and 1:56:01.920 --> 1:56:04.520 like and so maybe people think I'm an asshole because 1:56:04.560 --> 1:56:06.720 I don't bring a bottle one, but I do, you know, like, 1:56:06.880 --> 1:56:09.040 I will bring it. I'll bring you a twelver of 1:56:09.160 --> 1:56:11.560 Coors Light. It'll be ice cold. I may have to 1:56:11.680 --> 1:56:13.680 put it in my jetti so he comes out and 1:56:13.720 --> 1:56:15.800 I would I will impress you in that way, and 1:56:15.840 --> 1:56:17.080 then you have to tell me if your wife like 1:56:17.440 --> 1:56:19.560 likes wine, that will will bring wine. Hey dude, no, no, no, 1:56:20.200 --> 1:56:25.160 wife like she's good. She like light, she likes bud light. 1:56:25.200 --> 1:56:27.480 But she'll drink course like. She's like me if it's cold. Mike, 1:56:27.560 --> 1:56:30.440 we're good now, I know. Wait, hold on, hold on, 1:56:30.640 --> 1:56:35.320 writens down twelver and a sixer. Bottles or cans. She's 1:56:35.400 --> 1:56:37.840 don't tell me she's in the cans. No, she's a 1:56:37.880 --> 1:56:39.640 bottle girl, she says. I mean she's kind of got 1:56:39.760 --> 1:56:46.080 enough and in her older age she prefers bottles. Now, Mike, 1:56:46.120 --> 1:56:49.040 thanks for joining us. It's no problem. I appreciated. Dog. 1:56:49.800 --> 1:56:52.000 Be sure to catch live editions. So the Doug got 1:56:52.040 --> 1:56:55.000 leaps show wheat days in noon eastern three pm Pacific. 1:56:55.440 --> 1:56:57.240 All right, that was That was great with Mike Lewis. 1:56:57.440 --> 1:57:00.880 Let me give you this thought on on the Houston Rockets. 1:57:02.640 --> 1:57:10.360 You know the Rockets. I understand how they've used analytics, 1:57:11.120 --> 1:57:14.760 and I am not one of these ostrich put your 1:57:14.760 --> 1:57:18.360 head in the sand, gonna deny the value of analytics 1:57:18.640 --> 1:57:21.600 in basketball or in any sport. It's an important part 1:57:21.640 --> 1:57:23.880 of baseball, it's an important part of football. It's an 1:57:23.880 --> 1:57:29.200 important part of basketball, but the perfect example of how 1:57:30.560 --> 1:57:33.360 the Rockets spent too much time with analytics and not 1:57:33.600 --> 1:57:35.480 enough time building a team, and now they're trying to 1:57:35.560 --> 1:57:39.600 figure out how to fix what ails them, and they 1:57:39.680 --> 1:57:45.400 may end up making more of a problem. Look at 1:57:45.400 --> 1:57:47.120 two years ago when they won. When they lost in 1:57:47.200 --> 1:57:50.400 Game seven, should be pointed out that in Dex Andrea 1:57:50.480 --> 1:57:52.360 Dolla's reminding us he didn't play in that game. He's 1:57:52.400 --> 1:57:54.760 a huge part of the the Warriors. So the Rockets 1:57:54.800 --> 1:57:56.720 saying when we didn't have Chris Paul, the Warriors didn't 1:57:56.720 --> 1:57:59.240 have Andrea Dollah is not as good a players Chris Paul, 1:57:59.760 --> 1:58:03.080 but he is almost as important to what the Warriors 1:58:03.120 --> 1:58:07.040 are able to do. But the point is, instead of 1:58:07.240 --> 1:58:10.200 maybe exploiting that mismatch as they had done previously in 1:58:10.240 --> 1:58:12.440 the series, they became overly reliant on the three point 1:58:12.480 --> 1:58:15.800 shot and miss seven in a row. On paper, you 1:58:15.880 --> 1:58:19.840 shouldn't miss and analytics, you shouldn't miss twenty seven in 1:58:19.920 --> 1:58:23.200 a row. Right that there isn't There isn't that kind 1:58:23.240 --> 1:58:28.160 of stretch because after you you have the same percentage 1:58:28.240 --> 1:58:31.360 chance of missing one as you do the next one, 1:58:31.440 --> 1:58:32.760 as you do the next one as you do the 1:58:32.840 --> 1:58:38.160 next one. That's how statistics work. It's not you know, 1:58:39.360 --> 1:58:41.800 this whole water finds its level if you're you know, 1:58:42.360 --> 1:58:44.800 you know, like like if you're shoot, you're forty percent 1:58:44.800 --> 1:58:47.720 shoot on every shot that you take. It doesn't believe 1:58:47.760 --> 1:58:50.440 in hot streaks. Doesn't believe. It does believe in hot spots, 1:58:50.480 --> 1:58:55.240 but not as much hot streaks. It's statistics, and I 1:58:55.320 --> 1:58:59.040 think it has value. But the perfect example of why 1:58:59.120 --> 1:59:02.000 the Rockets are in the mess that they're in being 1:59:02.160 --> 1:59:03.920 good but not able to be great and win a 1:59:04.040 --> 1:59:08.080 title is on paper, Chris Paul and James Harden work 1:59:08.320 --> 1:59:11.600 together when they're both in the lineup. They're incredibly efficient offensively, 1:59:11.880 --> 1:59:15.120 they're good basketball teams. But Chris Paul, like the rest 1:59:15.160 --> 1:59:17.200 of us, hates watching James Harden dribble a ball to death, 1:59:17.920 --> 1:59:20.160 and James Harden, like the rest of us, is like man, 1:59:20.720 --> 1:59:24.680 Chris Paul kind of seems old, right, and so they 1:59:24.720 --> 1:59:26.760 struggle to get along with each other. You can't see 1:59:26.760 --> 1:59:30.520 that in statistical data, because analytically speaking, the team is 1:59:30.560 --> 1:59:31.960 far better with both of them on the court than 1:59:32.000 --> 1:59:34.800 they are with either of them off the floor. So 1:59:34.800 --> 1:59:37.680 now they're gonna ad Jimmy Butler his fourth team in 1:59:37.760 --> 1:59:42.000 four years. That's paying only attention to we can be 1:59:42.120 --> 1:59:44.960 more efficient, we can be better, instead of paying attention 1:59:45.000 --> 1:59:47.000 to how does the team actually feel and how do 1:59:47.040 --> 1:59:53.400 they get along? Good luck with that. Last thing is this, 1:59:53.960 --> 1:59:59.600 um we're gonna have more coaches on and basketball people 1:59:59.640 --> 2:00:04.040 on about the off season. I do think Kansas would 2:00:04.040 --> 2:00:08.480 be my preseason number one. And UM, I love the 2:00:08.640 --> 2:00:12.120 idea that the n C is going to continue to 2:00:12.280 --> 2:00:14.480 try and get back to the cutting down on the waivers. 2:00:15.160 --> 2:00:19.800 It doesn't mean that, UM, I don't think that some 2:00:20.000 --> 2:00:22.320 kids transfer home for the right reasons because you have 2:00:22.520 --> 2:00:26.360 us sick uncle or grandpa, mom or dad. But just 2:00:26.600 --> 2:00:30.480 enough people have lied about it and have gamed the 2:00:30.600 --> 2:00:34.360 system where we don't believe anybody anymore. That's really kind 2:00:34.360 --> 2:00:36.960 of what it is, right. It's the same reason you 2:00:37.080 --> 2:00:40.920 take off your shoes at a when you go through 2:00:40.960 --> 2:00:43.280 the airport screener. There's one guy who tried to blow 2:00:43.280 --> 2:00:45.040 out the world with his shoes. We'll have to take 2:00:45.080 --> 2:00:47.040 our shoes is like ten years later, more than ten 2:00:47.120 --> 2:00:49.920 years later. Sorry, one guy kind of ruined it for 2:00:49.920 --> 2:00:53.000 the rest of us. That's the way it works. And 2:00:53.160 --> 2:00:55.480 the reality is that if you're going to transfer home, 2:00:56.280 --> 2:00:58.760 even if for the reasons that you know, you get 2:00:58.800 --> 2:01:01.560 a grandpost like you can take a year off and 2:01:01.760 --> 2:01:04.240 help that person get healthy or spend time with them 2:01:04.280 --> 2:01:10.240 while they're sick. Speaking of being sick, Um arrest in 2:01:10.280 --> 2:01:15.520 peace too. Tony BARRONI great basketball coach, awesome guy. And 2:01:16.400 --> 2:01:17.960 he was a coach Tech Sam when I first got 2:01:17.960 --> 2:01:21.680 Tokoha mistake. And I will never forget the last line 2:01:21.720 --> 2:01:23.640 I heard him say, as head coach at Tech say 2:01:23.640 --> 2:01:27.960 at m he had been fired. It was in March, 2:01:28.080 --> 2:01:29.560 and we were at the Herford House in Kansas City 2:01:29.560 --> 2:01:31.680 where we always ate the night before the Big twelve tournament, 2:01:32.280 --> 2:01:34.600 and he comes walking in in his maroon sweats, just 2:01:34.720 --> 2:01:37.680 with his assistant coaches, and Edie Sutton says, Tony, where's 2:01:37.680 --> 2:01:40.840 your team? And Tony says, those fucking guys let them 2:01:40.880 --> 2:01:43.120 at McDonald's. They got my ass fired. How you doing, coach? 2:01:45.040 --> 2:01:47.560 He coached Anoy Benjamin at Creighton, which should earn him 2:01:48.240 --> 2:01:51.720 automatic entrance into the gates of heaven. St. Peter got 2:01:51.800 --> 2:01:54.280 himself an angel, will give him some wings. Tony is 2:01:54.280 --> 2:01:56.840 a good dude. And then his son just got the 2:01:56.880 --> 2:02:02.160 head coaching job at Southern Illinois Edwardsville. I believe I 2:02:02.240 --> 2:02:04.480 think Brian will do an excellent job. Rest in peace 2:02:04.520 --> 2:02:06.840 to the great Tony Brownie. I'm Doug Gottliebin. This is 2:02:06.880 --> 2:02:07.240 all ball