Speaker 1: Hey, hey, hey, we're back. We're black, we're brown ambishon.
Speaker 2: Hey, hey, hey, how's it going good.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm serving bedbun realists, what about you?
Speaker 3: Do you know what I am serving? I woke up
Speaker 3: today and my house smelled like a swamp. Thank you,
Speaker 3: Hurricane Ida. My Zenden has been tarnished by the swamp
Speaker 3: waters of the Bronx River. But you know, we're very
Speaker 3: blessed and fortunate that we didn't have a lot of damage.
Speaker 3: So my heart goes out to I mean, just so
Speaker 3: many family, even in my neighborhood. Somehowses flooded completely. So
Speaker 3: you know, we're very lucky. And you know, my heart
Speaker 3: goes out to everyone who's dealing with a complete nightmare,
Speaker 3: including to Nedda Bell.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Photographed, yeah, logo our artwork.
Speaker 1: So if you see like our Brown Ambition, like our
Speaker 1: new Brown Ambition artwork or the one from before, or
Speaker 1: any of my headshots, it's my friend. In the cover
Speaker 1: of my book Get It with Money, it's my friend
Speaker 1: Toanedda Bell, and she lives in New Jersey and her
Speaker 1: basement just just flooded and she just lost so much.
Speaker 1: And I just saw that she had posted her frustration
Speaker 1: that she it looks like FEMA might not be servicing
Speaker 1: Essex County where we live. So she's just really it's
Speaker 1: just you know, I'm gonna actually call her today, so
Speaker 1: you know, just love and light to you. Toan Nedda,
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine. I mean to your point, Mandy.
Speaker 1: Literally it was like house by house, you know, like
Speaker 1: my house was fine, but the one across the street
Speaker 1: they're pumping out like gallons and gallons and gallons of water.
Speaker 3: So well to everyone recovering from the storm along the
Speaker 3: East Coast and in the Gulf Coast for sure, everyone
Speaker 3: listening in New Orleans, Mississippi, Alabama. Why did I say
Speaker 3: New Orleans as if that's the entire state Louisiana, I know,
Speaker 3: not hearts out. I hope you guys are recovering. And
Speaker 3: you know, if anyone listening to the show has any
Speaker 3: stories to share or wants to offer support to be
Speaker 3: a listeners who may be a need, hit us up
Speaker 3: Brown Ambition Podcast at gmail dot com, or you can
Speaker 3: hit us up on ig We're at Brown Ambition Podcast
Speaker 3: or brendambispodcast dot com.
Speaker 2: Zach cool.
Speaker 4: So this makes a little specially specih.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is super special because we are going to
Speaker 1: take y'all on a very special trip down memory lane.
Speaker 3: That's right to have now. Last week, if you guys listened,
Speaker 3: If you haven't, go back and listen.
Speaker 4: It's an episode you don't want to miss.
Speaker 3: But we mentioned that our first ever episode of Brown Ambition,
Speaker 3: it's actually been eaten up and hidden away by the
Speaker 3: podcasting gods somehow. You actually can't find it unless you
Speaker 3: know exactly where to look. Our first ever episode actually
Speaker 3: aired number fifteenth, two thousand and sixteen.
Speaker 4: Wait, that's incorrect. Why did I get our own anniversary wrong?
Speaker 3: It eventually hired twenty fifteen, Tiffany, which means we are
Speaker 3: just coming up on our six year anniversary.
Speaker 1: Gosh, we were such baby podcasters then, so y'all to celebrate,
Speaker 1: me and Mandra dug deep, deep, deep into the archives
Speaker 1: of the Internet to find our first episode. In y'all,
Speaker 1: it does not disappoint you get to hear baby Mandra
Speaker 1: and me Tiffany talking about why we started this little
Speaker 1: show to begin with, and what we hope and dream
Speaker 1: we build together, this community, this beautiful ba fan that
Speaker 1: we've come to love so much.
Speaker 3: After you listen to our first ever episode stick around,
Speaker 3: because after the break, we are also going to have
Speaker 3: y'all listen to a throwback to one of our favorite
Speaker 3: guests of twenty twenty, doctor Imani Walker, who you might
Speaker 3: recognize from a little show called Bravos Married to Medicine.
Speaker 1: Yes, Mandra. Doctor Imani is a physician trained in general
Speaker 1: adult psychiatry, and she joined us in the thick of
Speaker 1: the Pandemonium last year to give us some solid tips
Speaker 1: for staying sane during this quarantine.
Speaker 4: That was a little rhyme, but not really.
Speaker 1: Now it looks like we're all headed back to the
Speaker 1: land of mass mandates in COVID quarantine, so we thought
Speaker 1: it would be a good time to bring back doctor
Speaker 1: Emani's tips for a refresher on how we can all
Speaker 1: be kind to our bodies and minds and each other.
Speaker 3: Okay, so deep wusaw breath, I think we need to
Speaker 3: bring back that squiggly dreamy sequence music they use whenever
Speaker 3: saved by the bell, Tiffany is saved by the bell
Speaker 3: like a your generation thing or a mind generate.
Speaker 4: I do know save by the bell.
Speaker 1: That was my thank you.
Speaker 3: But you know, when they used to go to the
Speaker 3: Max and they would like have the squiggly pink glittery
Speaker 3: you know filter come over the screen and the violins
Speaker 3: or the harp.
Speaker 4: No, the harp would start chiming.
Speaker 3: You knew it was a throwback episode, so we need
Speaker 3: that music. BA fan, We hope you enjoy this throwback episode.
Speaker 3: So Producer Sarah please cue dreamy music. Hey everyone, I'm Mandy.
Speaker 1: Hey, it's Tiffany and this is Brown Ambition.
Speaker 3: I've been a reporter in New York City for five years.
Speaker 3: Right now, I'm a writer at Yahoo Finance. I write
Speaker 3: about money, business, career, basically anything to do with the
Speaker 3: world and.
Speaker 4: How it impacts your wallet.
Speaker 1: And I am Tiffany, but much better known as the
Speaker 1: Budget Lista and I'm a financial educator, bestselling author, speaker, teacher,
Speaker 1: all things personal finance. Basically, on this podcast, we're going
Speaker 1: to be talking about career, relationships, life and living in
Speaker 1: this brown skin.
Speaker 3: We work, we start businesses, we help one another. We
Speaker 3: do everything we can to make a better life for ourselves.
Speaker 3: And that's what Brown Ambition is all about. So here
Speaker 3: are some topics you might hear us talk about on
Speaker 3: the podcast.
Speaker 1: How to deal with off this bullyes and microaggressions.
Speaker 3: Coping with being the only one in the office.
Speaker 1: Yes, how to get money for a new business even
Speaker 1: when you have no idea what you're doing. Should you
Speaker 1: care if people think you have resting bitch base?
Speaker 2: Guilty?
Speaker 3: What to do when by earns less.
Speaker 2: Than you guilty guilty?
Speaker 1: Whether or not we should use the word bay in
Speaker 1: everyday conversation.
Speaker 3: I have a lot of thoughts about this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3: Guys. We're going to start off the podcast by talking
Speaker 3: about some buzzworthy headlines that are cropping up in our lives,
Speaker 3: and we want to talk.
Speaker 4: More about this.
Speaker 3: Week's buzzworthy.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm excited about this one.
Speaker 3: I think, I know. I'm excited to have a lot
Speaker 3: of opinions about this, and so does the rest of America. Yes,
Speaker 3: so many opinions on how a young woman today decides
Speaker 3: it's the right time to step into motherhood.
Speaker 2: Yes, baby limbo, baby limbo.
Speaker 3: Ye, right, it's this. You know, I kind of came
Speaker 3: up with this terminology for a story I did on
Speaker 3: young people millennials eighteen up to their mid thirties who
Speaker 3: are stuck between do I have this college debt, or
Speaker 3: do you know, pay that off and focus on my
Speaker 3: career or do I also have a baby or you know,
Speaker 3: what should come first? And honestly, it's such a difficult
Speaker 3: question because mother nature doesn't wait for you to pay
Speaker 3: off your student live debt. And I think that women
Speaker 3: have to recognize that fact. And it's maybe not so
Speaker 3: comfortable because you know, obviously we want to talk about
Speaker 3: how much control we should have over our own bodies,
Speaker 3: which is absolutely true. You should, you know, be your
Speaker 3: own body's boss. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: like that clock is ticking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1: So I'm thirty five and I turned thirty six in October,
Speaker 1: which is not far away. And I mean, I've been
Speaker 1: thinking about it a lot because I am in a
Speaker 1: serious relationship, me and my boyfriend Superman.
Speaker 2: He already has a daughter. She's eight. She's great.
Speaker 3: Day they a man with a daughter. That's some grown
Speaker 3: up dating, yes.
Speaker 1: But I love it honestly because one, I'm at an
Speaker 1: age now and because I work for myself, I realized
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily want a huge family. I came from
Speaker 1: a family there was five girls. My mom and dad
Speaker 1: raised all five of us, and I don't know that
Speaker 1: I want a big family, but I at least think
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I want at least one kid of
Speaker 1: my own. I mean, according to my mom, I really
Speaker 1: need to get on it.
Speaker 2: And I kind of feel like that too.
Speaker 1: My best friend just had a baby, and my sister
Speaker 1: just had a baby, and so their babies are all
Speaker 1: under a.
Speaker 2: Year old, and so I've been like, yeah, a little bit,
Speaker 2: but sometimes you're over you start to twenty a.
Speaker 1: Little bit more so than I'm like, oh, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be thirty six, So when are you gonna make a choice.
Speaker 1: A friend of mine had she made her choice at
Speaker 1: thirty six and had her baby at thirty seven, and
Speaker 1: she said, I wish I would have started sooner, That's
Speaker 1: what I hear.
Speaker 4: I'm afraid, yeah, sooner would be.
Speaker 3: I'm twenty eight right now, and I feel like, am
Speaker 3: I gonna regret not having a baby now? I don't know,
Speaker 3: but it seems like I just don't want to do it.
Speaker 1: Her reason for saying she wished she would have started
Speaker 1: sooner is that she wished she really wants to have
Speaker 1: a second and she doesn't know if she can. Yeah
Speaker 1: she can, So that's why I don't know that I
Speaker 1: want to have a second. I mean, I would want
Speaker 1: to have two kids, but between his one and my one,
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, then it goes one plus one max
Speaker 1: two for free. Yes, she's the bonus kid and so
Speaker 1: and plus I do so much work and I really
Speaker 1: want to And I know this might sound a little selfish,
Speaker 1: but I want to maintain my individual personality and maintaince
Speaker 1: is okay, you know.
Speaker 2: As long as you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think selfish would be more so having
Speaker 1: ten kids and still wanting to fry around the country
Speaker 1: and speak and teach. And you don't have enough time
Speaker 1: for your children, So I don't want to spread myself
Speaker 1: super thin.
Speaker 3: Right mm hm, well, hopefully you just have one kid
Speaker 3: to start.
Speaker 1: I know, well, my boyfriends are twins, so he is,
Speaker 1: Oh Jesus no, I'm like, yo, he told me. I
Speaker 1: already like, so I'm aiming.
Speaker 3: For Does that gene come from the mail line or
Speaker 3: that I don't, which is more likely to go somebody?
Speaker 1: Somebody email us at Brown Ambition, yes and tell us
Speaker 1: how exactly our twins formulated. Does that come from the
Speaker 1: male line the female line?
Speaker 4: Is that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Is it hereditary? Or is that like some sort of
Speaker 2: random you.
Speaker 3: Do you think it skips a generation, so you might
Speaker 3: be good. Okay, maybe you're If you have a daughter,
Speaker 3: then she's got to worry.
Speaker 2: But you're good, So so you say.
Speaker 1: And so I come back to the next podcast, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, so, y'all, I'm having twins, thanks Manny.
Speaker 3: I can talk well, you know, I'm I'm twenty eight,
Speaker 3: and I don't necessarily feel pressure to have a baby, Okay,
Speaker 3: but I feel I guess that's not true. I don't
Speaker 3: feel pressure from myself, Okay, I don't. I look at
Speaker 3: puppies and I feel my my ovaries twins, like I
Speaker 3: really want a puppy very badly. Babies not so much,
Speaker 3: but they're cute. What I do feel is intense pressure
Speaker 3: from you know, I'm dating. I've been dating my partner
Speaker 3: boyfriend for through over three years now, which is my
Speaker 3: longest relationship. Okay, and you know, we live together and
Speaker 3: we're kind of we're kind of playing it as we
Speaker 3: you know by ear. His fan, however, is not waiting,
Speaker 3: especially his mother. He comes from a very traditional, close
Speaker 3: knit community and family. I guess it's not giving away
Speaker 3: too much if I say he's Dominican. So I'm in
Speaker 3: a mixed race relationship. And his mother is very Catholic
Speaker 3: and very old school, and she is like the mother
Speaker 3: of mothers. She lives to nurture her son's two sons.
Speaker 3: They are school of rotten. But you know, I feel
Speaker 3: her looking at me and wondering. Not just feel, but
Speaker 3: I hear because she tells me, Mandy, Amanda, why why
Speaker 3: no baby yet?
Speaker 4: Why?
Speaker 3: Her English isn't very good, but she can she gets
Speaker 3: her point of where's the baby yet? Where it's been
Speaker 3: three years? I asked her, you know, uh, don't you
Speaker 3: want us to get married first, and get married and
Speaker 3: do all that and you know the right order of events.
Speaker 2: And she's like, no, just have a baby.
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 2: Would this be her first grandchild?
Speaker 4: This will be her first grandchild.
Speaker 2: There's so much pressure.
Speaker 1: What so how about you come from a family of
Speaker 1: five girls and no one has kids. My mother every
Speaker 1: day on the phone, so my my Nigerian name is Adoci.
Speaker 1: My mother would call me and say, so adult, she's
Speaker 1: still not mad. It still no baby. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: good morning, older no second oldest. So they're just like
Speaker 1: so somebody the oldest is married and she's working on it,
Speaker 1: and I'm the second. The third is not married. The
Speaker 1: forest is married and she just had a baby, so
Speaker 1: we're like, whoa, and but just watching her, she's literally
Speaker 1: like the milk machine. So she's only allowed to take
Speaker 1: ten paces away from the baby before the milk machine
Speaker 1: has to return and dispense milk.
Speaker 3: You mean, it's not glamorous, and she's not like Blake
Speaker 3: Lively taking selfies of herself, you know, breastfeeding and a
Speaker 3: field of sunflowers is.
Speaker 1: Straight beause honestly, she's like, I'm so tired. Her feet
Speaker 1: are swollen, and she's just like, how can I My
Speaker 1: mom is like, my mom is a nurse and her
Speaker 1: my mom was telling her you need to put your
Speaker 1: feet up. She's like, oh, when when I'm beating the
Speaker 1: milk machine.
Speaker 3: I work for a company, and obviously Y'allhoo has very
Speaker 3: generous eternity and paternity benefit programs, which isn't the norm nationwide.
Speaker 3: It's actually America is one of the only developing nations
Speaker 3: that doesn't have a federally mandated paid maternity or paternity
Speaker 3: lead law. But I'm lucky enough to work for Yahoo
Speaker 3: and we have sixteen weeks off that's awesome, and dads
Speaker 3: get eight weeks off and at least I know I
Speaker 3: have that, Yeah, sort of if I'm still working, you're
Speaker 3: gonna have a baby to have that kind of cushion.
Speaker 3: But can you talk about, like I'm curious as an
Speaker 3: entrepreneur's self, you know, your own your own business, how
Speaker 3: are you going to plan your leave?
Speaker 1: So I've been like, honestly like kind of like planning
Speaker 1: now because I'm going to be thirty six, like I said,
Speaker 1: and I mentioned, and my boyfriend and I have been
Speaker 1: talking about marriage and kids. So right now, the way
Speaker 1: my business is is that I start off at zero
Speaker 1: basically like every month, meaning like my income, I never
Speaker 1: know what's going to come in. People would just email
Speaker 1: me and call me and say we want you to
Speaker 1: speak or teach or whatever. And so as a month
Speaker 1: rolls on, I make money. I cannot do that and
Speaker 1: the kid because one you know, I'm gonna have to
Speaker 1: be home. I do a lot of speaking around the country,
Speaker 1: you know, So that's a worry for me. So I thought, well,
Speaker 1: how am I going to make this work? So one
Speaker 1: of the things I'm implementing is I'm looking for other
Speaker 1: ways to make passive income. So I have two books
Speaker 1: that do fairly well. I'm coming out with a children's
Speaker 1: book hopefully that will boost up my income. In two
Speaker 1: I'm launching this academy called the Live Richer Academy, where
Speaker 1: it's going to be like a monthly fee and you
Speaker 1: can take classes on investing in business and all this
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. And so the Live Richer Academy will
Speaker 1: definitely help to put regular income into my stream without
Speaker 1: me having to leave the house because I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be able to, at least not for a while.
Speaker 1: So I'd love to hear what the BA audience has
Speaker 1: to say. Tweet us at the BA Podcast. You can
Speaker 1: find us on Facebook at Brown Ambition and you can
Speaker 1: email us at Brownambitionpodcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Let us know. Are you and Baby Limbo? What is
Speaker 2: your story?
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear it, maybe share it next time
Speaker 1: we're on.
Speaker 3: Well, thank y'all so much for walking down memory lane.
Speaker 3: It is so crazy to listen to ourselves six years ago.
Speaker 3: You know, I used to get onto myself for not
Speaker 3: ever journaling like I'm supposed to be doing. I'm a
Speaker 3: writer or whatever, right, But then I remembered I have
Speaker 3: got two hundred and eighty hours of journaling because every
Speaker 3: episode it feels like we are just sharing what's happening
Speaker 3: in our lives and in the world. So we've got
Speaker 3: this little time capsule. It's really cool to look back
Speaker 3: and to hear what we were going through just six
Speaker 3: years ago.
Speaker 1: I know. I love that we call like our husband's
Speaker 1: not boyfriends, like our boyfriend.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean like he might make it. We don't know.
Speaker 2: We've grown up so much.
Speaker 3: So now it is time for the second half of
Speaker 3: our throwback episode. Like we told you guys, this is
Speaker 3: a special one. This is one of our favorite guests
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty doctor Imani Walker, as a trained physician
Speaker 3: in general adult psychiatry. Doctor Imani was one of our
Speaker 3: favorite guests because she joined us to talk about how
Speaker 3: we could truly cope mentally, physically, health wise with all
Speaker 3: that is happening while we were struggling with quarantine, and
Speaker 3: now that we are heading back into the cold, cold,
Speaker 3: falling winter season of twenty twenty one, it seems like
Speaker 3: it just seems like deja vu. So I wanted to
Speaker 3: bring back doctor Aimani and hopefully y'all will benefit from
Speaker 3: some of her tips on how we can just be
Speaker 3: a little bit kinder and nicer to ourselves as we
Speaker 3: finish out the year.
Speaker 1: Cute let music, and we're back and browner. We have
Speaker 1: the amazing, the beautiful, the intelligent, and the real doctor Amiani.
Speaker 4: Okay, now I like that, hire everybody and hie to
Speaker 4: you guys. I like that, though, yes it is browner
Speaker 4: just because I'm here. So so yeah, I'm totally like,
Speaker 4: I'm so highed to like meet you guys virtually because
Speaker 4: new normal. But yeah, like this is this is great.
Speaker 4: I'm super happy to be here.
Speaker 3: So doctor Amani, you have been a practicing psychiatrist for
Speaker 3: how long?
Speaker 4: Now let's see my I'm like looking at one of
Speaker 4: my degrees on the wall in my office. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 4: that's all right. Sorry, Yeah, like that really wasn't a flex,
Speaker 4: but I realize now it sounds like one of my degrees,
Speaker 4: one of my four things on the wall.
Speaker 3: You pay for them. Let's let's respect.
Speaker 4: Well okay, I will, I will admit, like, honestly I
Speaker 4: didn't pay for them. My parents did, right, So so
Speaker 4: I actually spoke about my mom. I spoke to my
Speaker 4: mom about this because we have a YouTube show. Actually
Speaker 4: that we usually do it every Monday, so I have
Speaker 4: to do that in a couple hours. But I never
Speaker 4: let anyone know in school that I didn't receive financial
Speaker 4: aid or that I had a scholarship. So I would
Speaker 4: always memorize where the financial aid office was, because is
Speaker 4: at the end of the year, apparently you have to
Speaker 4: do like your financial aid wrap up, and I don't
Speaker 4: know anything about Like I've heard of loans like Stafford
Speaker 4: loans and stuff, but that didn't apply to me. So
Speaker 4: I would just memorize where the financial aid office was
Speaker 4: because I didn't want people to know, you know, that
Speaker 4: my basically my parents saved up for it. And I
Speaker 4: did have a scholarship. My alma maters is Xavier University
Speaker 4: in New Orleans, and I had an academic scholarship. Yes, yes,
Speaker 4: but yeah, I never My mother told me when I
Speaker 4: was a senior in high school. She was like, well,
Speaker 4: you know, if you want to go to a school
Speaker 4: in the Northeast, and I'd gotten into like Wesleyan and Vassar,
Speaker 4: which is my mom's alma mater, she was like, you
Speaker 4: can do that. But she like she was really really
Speaker 4: adamant about me going to Xavier because I wanted to
Speaker 4: be a doctor, and it's basically a black doctor factory
Speaker 4: and has been for decades. So she was like, here's
Speaker 4: the thing. We can pay for your college because it's
Speaker 4: significantly cheaper, like was much much cheaper than Northeast, like
Speaker 4: Ivy League suition. She was like, I can pay for
Speaker 4: you a college, you can get a car, you know,
Speaker 4: basically like you can be out here. But when but
Speaker 4: if you go to a school in the Northeast, you're
Speaker 4: gonna have to take out loans. And I was like,
Speaker 4: well then no, I was like, I'm not doing that,
Speaker 4: so my my. So basically that's what happened. So when
Speaker 4: I would be at a college, like I said, at Xavier,
Speaker 4: and then when I was in med school, I knew
Speaker 4: I mean, the majority of people that I knew who
Speaker 4: were my med school class were on scholarship or you know,
Speaker 4: received financial aid. But and I knew where the office was,
Speaker 4: I knew the building, but I had just never been
Speaker 4: in the office because it didn't apply to me. So
Speaker 4: it's amazing.
Speaker 3: I love that story and also how odd that you
Speaker 3: were ashamed of something that was so amazing.
Speaker 4: Yes, it was, I mean, honestly, it wasn't that I
Speaker 4: was fearful of anyone shaming me, And I wasn't. I
Speaker 4: wasn't ashamed of having like my friends know, like the
Speaker 4: brown and black you know that I had. It was
Speaker 4: more so like I was like, I don't want these
Speaker 4: white people to know because then like it's like, oh so,
Speaker 4: because the assumption is you're on financial aid when we
Speaker 4: all know that white women benefit the most from you know,
Speaker 4: affirmative action and in those types of scholarships, right or
Speaker 4: those types of situations. I just didn't want to have
Speaker 4: the conversation of like, Okay, you know, my parents are
Speaker 4: very they're they're very what's the word I'm looking for.
Speaker 4: They're very austere and that's what they taught me, and
Speaker 4: that's what they taught like, you know, my cousins and
Speaker 4: everybody else in my family. So I always saw money
Speaker 4: as a tool and not something to just be spent,
Speaker 4: and I guess I didn't want anybody to think that like,
Speaker 4: oh so you think you'll all that. So I actually
Speaker 4: I haven't admitted this to anybody outside of my circle
Speaker 4: of friends. I don't think until like this year, because
Speaker 4: I just didn't. I just didn't want I just didn't
Speaker 4: want people to know. I'm like, if that's my personal business.
Speaker 4: And then also the way I grew up, it was like,
Speaker 4: you know, you keep your findential business to yourself. So
Speaker 4: we always I guess, I mean like we were solidly
Speaker 4: middle class. Then we became middle upper class, but we
Speaker 4: still you know, went to Sam's Club, went to Costco.
Speaker 4: Like my mom grew up on welfare. My dad wasn't
Speaker 4: on welfare, but he he you know, just had two
Speaker 4: hard working parents that weren't getting a lot of money
Speaker 4: in did Jim Crow South. So I was just taught
Speaker 4: to you know, like, yes, money, but like it, you know,
Speaker 4: it ain't for you, like you, Oh you want outfit,
Speaker 4: that's that's cute, Go get a job. So I've been
Speaker 4: working since I was fourteen, ever since you could have
Speaker 4: get your working papers in New York. Yes, I remember that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, work to go to the high school and get
Speaker 2: your market papers.
Speaker 4: Working this summer, yeah, I used. I went to this.
Speaker 4: There was a school. I went to Calhoun on eighty
Speaker 4: first in West and Manhattan, and there was like a
Speaker 4: I don't know if it was like a special needs
Speaker 4: school or something similar. It was like a block away
Speaker 4: and I remember when I was fourteen, I went over
Speaker 4: there and got my working papers, and I've been working.
Speaker 4: So if I'm forty four now, i've been working for
Speaker 4: thirty years. Wow. Yeah, So anyway, I'm sorry how to
Speaker 4: answer your question because I just.
Speaker 3: Did I even ask a question.
Speaker 4: This story. I have so many follow ups I have,
Speaker 4: like I can go on Tannis. So just like you know,
Speaker 4: be like Emani. Okay, tap out you do from your
Speaker 4: own podcast? Can we just say Imani's state of Mind?
Speaker 4: Check it out? I love it.
Speaker 3: I listened to the one of the most recent episodes yesterday.
Speaker 3: Oh nice, nice normal podcast on today. It's super fun.
Speaker 3: I've been So I've been a practicing physician since two
Speaker 3: thousand and nine.
Speaker 4: That's all right, that was my question.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but no, I love it. No ten years wait,
Speaker 3: two thousand and five, so fifteen years, No, two thousand
Speaker 3: and nine. So two thousand and nine, I've finished my
Speaker 3: fellowship in forensic psychiatry. So since then pretty much I've
Speaker 3: been treating psychiatric patients.
Speaker 4: So you are well, So business must be booming. Yes,
Speaker 4: business is booming. I would say, I mean, like straight up,
Speaker 4: when this, when all this happened, like I freaked out,
Speaker 4: like everybody else because it was basically it was like Friday,
Speaker 4: and I'm out here in LA so it was like
Speaker 4: I think it was March thirteenth or something like that. Friday,
Speaker 4: it was like, okay, so we're probably gonna be on
Speaker 4: quarantine and I was like, okay, well, I don't really
Speaker 4: know what that means, like as it pertains to me.
Speaker 4: And then Monday, we were all on lockdown and I
Speaker 4: was like, oh my God, like, do I have a
Speaker 4: job Stille? What am I gonna do? So I've pretty
Speaker 4: much been exclusively seeing patients via telehealth, so either by
Speaker 4: video conferencing or by the via telephone. And is business booming? Yes?
Speaker 4: I work at a hospital. I am the medical director
Speaker 4: and also the chief medical officer at a mental health
Speaker 4: hospital out here in Los Angeles called Gateways Hospital. And
Speaker 4: the patients that I see, because I have a forensic
Speaker 4: psychiatry background, these are patients who came from jail or
Speaker 4: came from the state mental hospital. They might have committed
Speaker 4: to some really like really egregious crimes, but it was
Speaker 4: due to their symptoms from mental illness. So I basically
Speaker 4: get them stable and keep them stable. So it hasn't
Speaker 4: it hasn't necessarily increased for me. It's it just I
Speaker 4: had to change the mode with what I had to
Speaker 4: change the mode of how I was seeing my patients,
Speaker 4: which honestly, I really I really like being at home honestly.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think we've both talked about how we
Speaker 4: were introverts. M h yeah.
Speaker 3: The intersection between mental health and what's happening right now.
Speaker 3: I mean, everything happening in the world is just a
Speaker 3: lot right now. And I feel like it is the
Speaker 3: exact right moment to have you on because we're like
Speaker 3: five or six months into this thing, and I was
Speaker 3: telling Tiffl, like, we really haven't taken a step back
Speaker 3: to pause and examine sort of how has this affected
Speaker 3: us all? So, I mean, what would you say, I
Speaker 3: know that your you know, your patients have like you
Speaker 3: were saying, you know, severe mental illness, But what are
Speaker 3: sort of like, can you break down, like mentally sort
Speaker 3: of what it is, what's happening to us, what's going on?
Speaker 4: Why anxiety is up?
Speaker 3: It feels like people who had maybe low grade depression
Speaker 3: before are probably more prone to having it pop up now.
Speaker 3: I mean, like, TIF, how's it been for you? Like
Speaker 3: I feel like we just need someone to explain to
Speaker 3: us what's happening and how we can like cope.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's been there were especially in the beginning.
Speaker 1: At first I was like, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1: I'm not good, you know, And then so there's just
Speaker 1: been this wave of good, not good, good, not good.
Speaker 1: And I remember last night I was scrolling through social
Speaker 1: and I literally had to say no. My husband wanted
Speaker 1: to show me one of those videos. We all know
Speaker 1: what I mean, what we mean by like, you know,
Speaker 1: black dead, black beaten bodies, And I said, honestly, Babe,
Speaker 1: I refuse, I refuse. I'm not looking at any more
Speaker 1: of those videos.
Speaker 2: I'm not. It's too much, it's too much.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's how I'm feeling that I'm feeling that
Speaker 1: I'm feeling in a place where I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: striving hard to protect my peace because it's just all
Speaker 1: too much.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I have always known that, Like, I'm not good
Speaker 4: with seeing people in the act of being hurt or
Speaker 4: being tortured, Like I don't want to invite that into
Speaker 4: my space loud. I'm fine with, you know, picking up
Speaker 4: the pieces and helping someone after the fact, but for me,
Speaker 4: all I need to know is like, okay, so tell
Speaker 4: me what happened. Okay, great, those are the facts, all right, now,
Speaker 4: how do we get it better? I haven't watched one video,
Speaker 4: probably since I'm not even lying, probably since Rodney King.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm not watching this shit, like I'm not.
Speaker 4: I don't need to invite that into my space. So
Speaker 4: you know, I'll look at the news, like not look
Speaker 4: at it, but I'll read the news from my news
Speaker 4: app on my phone for like fifteen minutes and a day,
Speaker 4: and then that's it because everything else is like speculative
Speaker 4: and conjecture and things that you know. I don't know
Speaker 4: if you guys have been noticing this, but like the
Speaker 4: news that that bubbles up through the COVID cracks, if
Speaker 4: you will, is some wild shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it has to take away the headlines from COVID.
Speaker 4: It's wild. I saw like apparently there's like I mean,
Speaker 4: it's summertime, but you know, kids in cars overheating and dying,
Speaker 4: and some there was some woman who like kills her grandparents.
Speaker 4: Like it's just it's so much weird ness that's going on.
Speaker 4: So I purposefully don't like if there's a video I'm like,
Speaker 4: I'm watching that, like I'm not.
Speaker 3: Trying to be a pandemic. It's also it's this reckoning
Speaker 3: we're happening. We're happening, Yeah, I can talk. We're having
Speaker 3: with the reality of what it's like to be black
Speaker 3: in America, black and brown in America, and that is
Speaker 3: happening at the same time where like everyone's lives are
Speaker 3: at risk and the world's on fire and the pandemic's happening.
Speaker 3: I mean, so you mentioned killer Locus.
Speaker 4: I'm just kidding. There's no killer Locus. There's killer wasps
Speaker 4: or something.
Speaker 1: Right, there's aliens on Venus today, I was.
Speaker 3: There's aliens on Venus. Can we join them? Do they
Speaker 3: like you know, you know, can I apply for admission?
Speaker 4: I don't know. I saw that, but I was like,
Speaker 4: this is the nerd in me. I'm like, is that possible?
Speaker 4: Because I think Venus is like a gaseous planet. But whatever, whatever, Again,
Speaker 4: let's not even focus on that because I'm super nerd.
Speaker 4: I'll nerd out.
Speaker 3: So let's my knowledge of Venus is like sailor Moon
Speaker 3: from you know, high school, that's where as it goes.
Speaker 3: But so okay, But but fifteen minutes so limiting news.
Speaker 3: I think that's something that I need to do that
Speaker 3: because I am obsessed with telling my Google, Like I'm like, hey, Google,
Speaker 3: tell me the news just whenever I have downtime or
Speaker 3: I'm cooking or like walking the dog. I just I
Speaker 3: come kind of obsessed with listening tones. But you're right,
Speaker 3: like it doesn't really change, but something about that has
Speaker 3: become like a tick for me to want to consume
Speaker 3: it just to see if something new has happened, or
Speaker 3: if there's new information.
Speaker 4: There's something I I was told last week I was
Speaker 4: doing this. I was being recorded for this documentary about
Speaker 4: millennials and mental health, and my topic was anxiety. And
Speaker 4: there was an interesting term the producer used, which was
Speaker 4: what do you call it? Doom scrolling? And I was like,
Speaker 4: I was like, what's scy app? But it sounded like
Speaker 4: I mean again, I'm a nerd. It sounded I was like,
Speaker 4: is that like Ninja scroll? Like the anime movie from
Speaker 4: back in the day. He was like me, now, I
Speaker 4: was like, okay, sorry, but it was but he so
Speaker 4: who What he explained was doom scrolling is the act
Speaker 4: of basically like what you what you explained, like you're
Speaker 4: in your in your news app, or you know, you
Speaker 4: ask your nearest AI, you know, machine, Alexis, Siri, whoever, like, oh,
Speaker 4: tell me the news, be cause it's it's everything is
Speaker 4: so out of our control. And just being able to
Speaker 4: at least, you know, ask and ask your phone or
Speaker 4: ask your device, Hey, can you tell me the news
Speaker 4: is somehow comforting because it's something we can control. But
Speaker 4: then when we start to actually read or it's we're
Speaker 4: told the news, we consume the news. We are trying
Speaker 4: to gain more control of our lives. But the problem
Speaker 4: is that, like I said before, there are certain things
Speaker 4: that are factual in the news. There are a lot
Speaker 4: of things in the news that are factual, but there's
Speaker 4: a lot that there's a lot of a lot of
Speaker 4: news stories that are very speculative, like we think Biden
Speaker 4: might win, Oh, but we think Trump might win. We
Speaker 4: might think that, and it's and it's it's not doing
Speaker 4: us any good. I understand that these news outlets need content,
Speaker 4: but it's not doing us the public, any favors, because
Speaker 4: it's just creating this this's creating this mood of like
Speaker 4: I don't give a fuck, but then I'm mad, anxious
Speaker 4: all the time, it's like, you know, it's like, well,
Speaker 4: I'm anxious because I don't know what's going to happen
Speaker 4: day to day. But then at the same time, it's like, well, okay,
Speaker 4: well what do you want to do? Like I don't
Speaker 4: know what can I do. I can't go outside, I
Speaker 4: can't go do hood rashit with my friends. I can't like,
Speaker 4: you know, like you do, like I can't like I
Speaker 4: can't like be me. So to answer your question from
Speaker 4: like five minutes ago, my bad. I think what's been
Speaker 4: happening as far as let's you know, let's use doom
Speaker 4: scrolling as an example, is very similar to what happened
Speaker 4: in the beginning of the pandemic with the toilet paper, right, So,
Speaker 4: why did everyone suddenly want toilet paper? Why did everyone
Speaker 4: suddenly want bottled water? Like it's not like, oh, we
Speaker 4: have a pandemic now the water is the water is poisoned.
Speaker 4: It's not poisoned. It's just that we wanted to be
Speaker 4: able to have control of something when everything else was
Speaker 4: completely chaotic, like our world's turned upside down. I went
Speaker 4: from you know, being a work on a Friday and
Speaker 4: now I'm home on a Monday, Like, oh, what am
Speaker 4: I supposed to do now? And that was really that's
Speaker 4: that was really scary to a lot of us because
Speaker 4: we maintained schedule and our mind our minds were maintaining
Speaker 4: routines that even if the routines were annoying, like sitting
Speaker 4: in traffic or you know, having to go to work
Speaker 4: and talk to your coworker who you don't like, they
Speaker 4: were still things that your mind could count on. So
Speaker 4: humans are, first of all, social creatures, and we're also
Speaker 4: creatures of habit. And when you take away both, you're
Speaker 4: gonna have what we now have, which is probably the
Speaker 4: largest global mental health crisis that we've ever encountered. So
Speaker 4: if we're going to talk about, you know, why do
Speaker 4: people feel this way? Even why do I feel this
Speaker 4: way sometimes because again, we're used to habit and we're
Speaker 4: used to structure and it's gone. It's gone. Like we're
Speaker 4: trying to, you know, six seven months in, I can
Speaker 4: honestly say that I have a better structure, but it's
Speaker 4: still not what the what I'm used to for the
Speaker 4: majority of my life. So we're kind of just looking
Speaker 4: for things to you know, get control over. I think
Speaker 4: for you know, honestly, for people who are anti mask wearers. Yes,
Speaker 4: it's silly to me as a physician, like why would
Speaker 4: you not wear a mask? Like I respect myself and
Speaker 4: even if you don't respect me, like you should respect
Speaker 4: yourself and not want to get sick potentially for me.
Speaker 4: But I think a lot of it is that they're like, Okay,
Speaker 4: I can this is something I can control. I can
Speaker 4: control whether I want to wear my mask or not,
Speaker 4: even though you know, maybe I'll get a ticket depending
Speaker 4: on the town or the city, or you know, maybe
Speaker 4: somebody will yell at me, you know, depending upon the
Speaker 4: business they answer. But it's I mean, it's become, unfortunately
Speaker 4: and overwhelmingly very political. But it just reminds me a
Speaker 4: lot of like we have to hold toilet paper and
Speaker 4: water because you know, what's like, what's going to happen.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I have no idea what was up with
Speaker 4: the toilet paper thing. But I actually have like obsessive
Speaker 4: compulsive personality disorder, so I have a habit of hoarding
Speaker 4: cleaning products. Anyway, So I was actually pretty good, you said.
Speaker 3: I do feel like the doomsday Ors, the Survivalists, they
Speaker 3: really came out on top. Oh listen, but they were
Speaker 3: life and like second their can beans for months.
Speaker 1: Yes they're like I told you. And someone like my
Speaker 1: mom who's a nurse and who was like.
Speaker 3: I've been told John, I'll watched him filthy.
Speaker 4: And exactly like yeah that day somebody. I mean, as
Speaker 4: a physician, I've been around a lot of sticky, you know,
Speaker 4: nasty kind of situations. But it really was until this
Speaker 4: pandemic that I was like, damn, like people are nasty,
Speaker 4: Like y'all like collectively, like y'all do not wash your
Speaker 4: hands like it used to be, you know, like I
Speaker 4: would go out to the movies and then you know,
Speaker 4: I would you know, go use the bathroom and go
Speaker 4: wash my hands in the in the restroom and then
Speaker 4: if there would always be like somebody in there who
Speaker 4: wouldn't and we would all be like, oh, like she's nasty.
Speaker 4: But you know it was because of you know, like
Speaker 4: people like that are people who you know, oh, let
Speaker 4: me drink after you, let me be all up in
Speaker 4: your face. I mean that's you know. Unfortunately, how you
Speaker 4: know some of us got sick. Well, let's talk about
Speaker 4: healthy ways of coping. I mean you mentioned sort of
Speaker 4: like you want to control something, so like what are
Speaker 4: the things we can do to bring back some sense
Speaker 4: of normalcy and control in our lives when everything feels
Speaker 4: like it's batshit crazy. Right. So, I think the first
Speaker 4: thing to do is, and this is kind of the harder,
Speaker 4: the hardest thing to do, is to admit that your stress.
Speaker 4: Admit that you're anxious, Admit you're depressed, Admit that you
Speaker 4: can't sleep, Admit to yourself that you know, even though
Speaker 4: we've been in this for a long time, we're now
Speaker 4: at the point where we're quote unquote used to it.
Speaker 4: We're not on like a fundamental level, but it's like, Okay,
Speaker 4: today's Monday, I'm going to do this. I look at
Speaker 4: my schedule, I'm going to do that. But it's not
Speaker 4: an ideal situation. So admitting that that you have an issue,
Speaker 4: admitting that you are not comfortable, like things are not
Speaker 4: right to the point where it might be interfering with
Speaker 4: your day to day and interfering with your mental well
Speaker 4: being is key. After that, I would think that the
Speaker 4: best thing to do is for someone to talk to
Speaker 4: someone they trust, because you'd be surprised, and I'm speaking
Speaker 4: as somebody who has a history of depression and anxiety,
Speaker 4: you'd be surprised or I was really surprised at how
Speaker 4: helpful it was to get my feelings out of my body.
Speaker 4: And when you're dealing with depression and anxiety, a lot
Speaker 4: of it is guilt driven. It's like, well, I don't
Speaker 4: want to burden this person, you know, with my personal
Speaker 4: issues because they're going through all this stuff too. And
Speaker 4: you know what, if that person is a real, real
Speaker 4: friend to you and they really care about you and
Speaker 4: love you, they'll listen to you and they'll you know,
Speaker 4: kind of help you through it. And that person might
Speaker 4: also be going through things, and you could also serve
Speaker 4: as an inspiration but that you know, for your friend,
Speaker 4: the loved one to be like you know what, like I,
Speaker 4: you know, like, let's talk about this. I think the
Speaker 4: third thing to do is to really set a routine.
Speaker 4: And Mandy, you and I spoke yesterday and I definitely
Speaker 4: agreed with you at the time, Like I like routine
Speaker 4: versus schedule, Like a schedule sounds like, oh, this is
Speaker 4: my class schedule for the day, like these are things
Speaker 4: that like I have to do, but I don't really
Speaker 4: want to do, versus a routine, which is like, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm going to wake up at this time because that's
Speaker 4: when I want to wake up, or that's when I
Speaker 4: might need to wake up. It's a routine to me.
Speaker 4: Sounds I mean, it's semantics, but it sounds like it's
Speaker 4: more it's something that I can control. It's more manageable, so,
Speaker 4: you know, depending upon you know, the person's you know,
Speaker 4: lifestyle or what they need to do. I mean, I
Speaker 4: remember in the beginning of the pandemic, I actually was
Speaker 4: trying to schedule like cocktail hour during during the early evening,
Speaker 4: like I can maybe not yeah, like maybe not even drinks,
Speaker 4: but like CANNOPI is like something like I was just
Speaker 4: like I need something to just make my day feel like, oh,
Speaker 4: look at this, We're having a good time, right, And
Speaker 4: then I think, you know, the other thing that people
Speaker 4: really need to consider. And as terrible as this pandemic
Speaker 4: has been for a lot of people, the one thing
Speaker 4: that has really been great about it is that there
Speaker 4: are actually it's actually easier to get hooked up with
Speaker 4: mental health services because most mental health clinics aren't open,
Speaker 4: but they do see patients or you know, or referrals
Speaker 4: or clients via apps, via video chat, via telephone. Even
Speaker 4: so it really has, at least in psychiatry and psychology,
Speaker 4: whereas telemedicine or telehealth was something that some of us
Speaker 4: were into. Like now we all have to be into
Speaker 4: it because if that's if we don't get used to it,
Speaker 4: we don't get acclimated to it, we're not gonna have patients.
Speaker 4: We're not going to be able to treat people and
Speaker 4: have and help people feel better the way that we
Speaker 4: need to right now. And you know, I think the
Speaker 4: I think the last thing, and this is gonna sound,
Speaker 4: you know, kind of obvious, like Captain obvious, but you
Speaker 4: know I tell people. I tell my patients like, you know,
Speaker 4: if you if you don't have a pre existing medical
Speaker 4: condition that's preventing you from going outside, like go outside,
Speaker 4: Like go outside. Because I'm as an introvert, I love
Speaker 4: being in the house. I'll stay in the house all
Speaker 4: day long. But when I finally am like, okay, we
Speaker 4: got to go outside, I'm like, oh my god, it's
Speaker 4: so nice out here, like look look at this, like
Speaker 4: look at these trees. Like I can feel the air
Speaker 4: now right now in La and in California, like the
Speaker 4: whole state's on fire. So that sometimes there's like yeah,
Speaker 4: maybe don't bring you deeply out there. Yeah, like yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean I've been in the house for the past
Speaker 4: like four or five days, so I'm starting to feel
Speaker 4: a little bit antsy. But you know, I think exercise
Speaker 4: is important, like you, like, we really need to find
Speaker 4: what we can do to increase our levels of serotonin
Speaker 4: in our brains so that we don't end up dipping
Speaker 4: into depression anxiety, but unfortunately a lot of us have.
Speaker 3: It almost brings up another important point you mentioned, like
Speaker 3: guilt and shame. And I feel like there was this
Speaker 3: something that happened with the pandemic where people who were
Speaker 3: at home. It wasn't just like let's go outside. It's like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna this is one I'm going to train for
Speaker 3: a marathon or I'm going to learn how I'm going
Speaker 3: to start the triathlon. I always wanted to do myself personally.
Speaker 3: I got a peloton and I'm now it's something that
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, why am I not on the peloton?
Speaker 3: Why do I not have a hundred rides yet? And
Speaker 3: it's almost like, you know, you can take these little
Speaker 3: things that maybe make you feel better, but then that
Speaker 3: becomes the stick that you beat yourself with a little
Speaker 3: bit when it comes to like guilt and shame.
Speaker 4: So how do we like talk, how can we just.
Speaker 3: Give ourselves a break for not going so over the
Speaker 3: top of this extra time that we perceive that we have.
Speaker 3: And you know, like there's this idea that you can
Speaker 3: win quarantine by learning a new hobby or a language.
Speaker 4: Why are we doing that to ourselves? We're doing that
Speaker 4: to ourselves because we were so go, go go before
Speaker 4: the shutdown. So I remember distinctly, I'd wake up, I'd
Speaker 4: go work out at six am. I'd come home, help
Speaker 4: my son with his lunch and make him breakfast, take
Speaker 4: him to school, come back home, run four miles, check
Speaker 4: my schedule. Seem you know, like I was like the
Speaker 4: amount of things I was cramming into a day was absurd.
Speaker 4: It was absurd. And it wasn't until you know, I
Speaker 4: was as we all were forced to take a step
Speaker 4: back that I was like, what why are you doing this?
Speaker 4: Like like, are you gonna win something at the end?
Speaker 4: Like no. So once I was able to slow down,
Speaker 4: it really afforded me the opportunity. I mean, it was hard,
Speaker 4: but once I was able to slow down, I was
Speaker 4: able to really just take stock up, you know, like
Speaker 4: what do you want? Like what do you want out
Speaker 4: of life? Not out of Wednesday, not out of this job?
Speaker 4: Like what do you want? And I was like, honestly,
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm I've been grinding since two thousand. I
Speaker 4: had a med school two thousand. I'm like a bitch
Speaker 4: is tired. I'm tired. I'm tired, you know, Like I
Speaker 4: still want to, you know, see patients and make a difference,
Speaker 4: but you know, I don't need to, you know, start
Speaker 4: training for the for you know, a bodybuilding competition or whatever,
Speaker 4: like these goals I had beforehand. It's it again, is
Speaker 4: is that it's that desire to have control of your life,
Speaker 4: but by distracting yourselves. So there were a lot of
Speaker 4: things that I was doing just just distract myself because
Speaker 4: I had to realize that I wasn't happy. And when
Speaker 4: I was able to do all of those things during
Speaker 4: the day and just pack my day with stuff, did
Speaker 4: I feel better?
Speaker 2: Maybe?
Speaker 4: Superficially, like did I feel like I'd accomplished something? Yes?
Speaker 4: And I think I equated accomplishing whatever it was quote
Speaker 4: unquote with feeling good about myself. And once that, once
Speaker 4: this pandemic pulled the rug out from under us. We
Speaker 4: were searching for things to do. Like like I saw
Speaker 4: some some meme on Instagram that was going around like
Speaker 4: if you don't come out of this pandemic with the skill,
Speaker 4: then you wasted your time. I'm like, first of all,
Speaker 4: don't tell me what to do. Okay, that's that's number one.
Speaker 4: Number two is Number two is everybody should be allowed
Speaker 4: and everybody is allowed to live their own life as
Speaker 4: they see fit. And you know, do I do I
Speaker 4: want to learn how to knit? Do I want to
Speaker 4: learn how to you know, do needle? Point of course
Speaker 4: I do, But this may not be the right time
Speaker 4: because I'm not able to full I don't have Like honestly,
Speaker 4: we're at a point where we don't know what's gonna
Speaker 4: happen tomorrow, Like I like, I legit, don't know whereas
Speaker 4: before the shutdown, like you know, people would say metaphorically like, well,
Speaker 4: you know, tomorrow's not promised, so live for today, and
Speaker 4: you would feel it on like a certain level. But
Speaker 4: now I feel it and I know that on a
Speaker 4: cellular level, like I do not know what's gonna happen tomorrow.
Speaker 4: I don't I don't know what's gonna happen politically, I
Speaker 4: don't know what's gonna happen, you know, news wise, I
Speaker 4: don't know what's gonna happen regarding COVID, Like, you know,
Speaker 4: are we due for the killer locuswarm that you know
Speaker 4: we should be experienced? What's the point of it? All?
Speaker 4: About it?
Speaker 3: Like rhy this is I'm like playing Devil's advocate. But
Speaker 3: this is like a small part of me inside my
Speaker 3: brain that I'm constantly trying to talk down off the
Speaker 3: ledge is like what's the point in saving?
Speaker 4: Why don't you just blow your money now? Like I
Speaker 4: mean on what really?
Speaker 3: But you know, I feel like financially people are and
Speaker 3: you and I talked about this too, like the sense
Speaker 3: of the structure that you have with your budget, Like
Speaker 3: even something as simple as a household budget seems to
Speaker 3: feel so silly or like doesn't really compute with today's world.
Speaker 4: So how can you adjust? Like mentally, how you look
Speaker 4: at your finances and your financial planning. So much of
Speaker 4: that has to do with the future, which none of
Speaker 4: us can predict right now. A lot of it, like
Speaker 4: when we were talking before, a lot of for me,
Speaker 4: budgeting is very tied into my self worth because budgeting
Speaker 4: involves money, and I have you know, we're in a
Speaker 4: capitalistic We're in a capitalist society, so I have oftentimes
Speaker 4: equated more money equals you know, better better self worth,
Speaker 4: which is really terrible in hindsight for me to have
Speaker 4: even thought that, But that's really what we're taught, right,
Speaker 4: I would say that.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I asked me that question again because I
Speaker 1: totally forgot you are so much like me. I'm like,
Speaker 1: doctor money, are we.
Speaker 4: Like, uh no, it's cod yesterday. I'm like this, Like
Speaker 4: I'll be like yeah, and then I'm like, wait, what
Speaker 4: the future? The future?
Speaker 3: How do we like make focial decisions today when it's
Speaker 3: so hard for us to like remind like Wanda, we
Speaker 3: were talking, Tiffany imagines herself in the future as Wanda
Speaker 3: and everything she does is for Wanda, so Wanda can
Speaker 3: be happy and you mean, like.
Speaker 4: Love Wanda, Like I got you right.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to sound like a sassy old lady
Speaker 1: dad because I just see Wanda customer.
Speaker 3: I mean, I.
Speaker 4: Mean, I've always I've always I've always contended my spirit animal, yes,
Speaker 4: because honestly, I mean, and that's that's kind of a
Speaker 4: good point. To make right now Shannane was is I'm
Speaker 4: guessing she's still alive in our consciousness. Shnane is a
Speaker 4: small business owner. She does very well with her salon.
Speaker 4: She has support, she had Key Lo Lo and her
Speaker 4: other friend and every you know, and she every so
Speaker 4: often she got to, you know, have fun. But for
Speaker 4: the most part, Shannane was a hard worker. So I think,
Speaker 4: you know, if I badge it myself, as Bartin's character
Speaker 4: Art Lawren's character on Shanne like that that actually, I
Speaker 4: mean real talk, that honestly is probably what I'm gonna
Speaker 4: do when I get off this phone call, because I
Speaker 4: do need to like work on my budget. But I
Speaker 4: think that that's a good thing to do. Like what
Speaker 4: like imagining yourself as Wanda, Yes, it's you. Yes, I
Speaker 4: mean we're kind of used to in this day and
Speaker 4: age with social media, imagining ourselves as an avatar. But
Speaker 4: there's something in psychiatry psychology that we call like like
Speaker 4: when you when I'm talking to somebody, let's say, who's
Speaker 4: experiencing depression or has in the past, and I will
Speaker 4: sometimes ask questions to determine if their goal oriented or
Speaker 4: future oriented. Right, A lot of us are not goal
Speaker 4: or future oriented right now, because we don't know what's
Speaker 4: going to happen from day to day. But if we
Speaker 4: can kind of imagine ourselves not as our Oh I'm
Speaker 4: going to be my best self. I'm going to run
Speaker 4: this marathon. I'm gonna have like a thousand rides on
Speaker 4: peloton this month. Like it's not that, it's not it's
Speaker 4: not like goal oriented, like I hit this goal. It's
Speaker 4: more so needs to be about imagining yourself in a
Speaker 4: happy place despite what's going on. Because we are we're
Speaker 4: in a new normal. It's not going to be the
Speaker 4: same way as it was before. It isn't. I mean,
Speaker 4: I don't know anybody personally who would feel comfortable walking
Speaker 4: around without a mask, like in the airport, in a restaurant,
Speaker 4: and you know, like anything like that. So I think
Speaker 4: it is. I think it's good to focus on what
Speaker 4: do I like. I want to be someone who is
Speaker 4: at peace. I want to be someone who definitely feels confident.
Speaker 4: And when it comes to budgeting, I know that I
Speaker 4: was having a hard time last month because I actually
Speaker 4: was starting to slip back into having some anxiety and depression,
Speaker 4: and so I was telling Mandy this yesterday I was like,
Speaker 4: you know, I like there were some bills that they
Speaker 4: were like Amie, are you gonna pay these bills? Or
Speaker 4: like what's up? Because you usually do and now you're not.
Speaker 4: And it was because I was just so cloudy with
Speaker 4: my thoughts, because some of my depressive and my depression
Speaker 4: and anxiety symptoms came back. And honestly, I would say
Speaker 4: over the past two weeks, as I had my medication adjusted,
Speaker 4: like I had it increased, I have been more go
Speaker 4: with the flow, like water off a ducts back. But
Speaker 4: I was, I mean, seriously, like dressing in bed, like
Speaker 4: damn you didn't pay your and AT and T cell
Speaker 4: phone bill, Like look at you, like like you like
Speaker 4: you really fucking up right now? And it's not that serious.
Speaker 4: It's not. It's just that I needed to get to
Speaker 4: a better place where I felt better. So I think
Speaker 4: that when it comes to budgeting, it's it's important, but
Speaker 4: I'm going to have to change my budget to reflect
Speaker 4: the fact that like I don't go nowhere, I don't
Speaker 4: have to I don't have to include my restaurant the
Speaker 4: restaurant portion of my budget where that I would usually use.
Speaker 4: Now I will say this last month when I wasn't
Speaker 4: feeling that great. I was I was like, oh, nobody's
Speaker 4: on Postmates word okay, like and then it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: well that's going to cover it up. But then I
Speaker 4: ended up like feeling bad about it later because I
Speaker 4: was like, you don't need to do that. So I
Speaker 4: think we need to really look at the at a
Speaker 4: budget or this this new normal budget as things that
Speaker 4: we need not necessarily feel happy and great because I
Speaker 4: bought a lot of dumb shit and I'm like, where
Speaker 4: are you gonna go with them sneakers nowhere? Like you
Speaker 4: don't need these things. But I think we really need
Speaker 4: to just just look at you know, how can we
Speaker 4: make things easier for us? How, you know, do we
Speaker 4: need to outsource certain things? Does our budget allow for that?
Speaker 4: Because it wasn't really until like maybe last year that
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, I really need to like outsource
Speaker 4: these things, like there are things that I can afford
Speaker 4: to outsource, or you know, there were even things that
Speaker 4: I would barter for other with other people with for
Speaker 4: other people with So you know, I think we need
Speaker 4: to get to a point, or people hopefully can get
Speaker 4: to a point where they feel they feel better about themselves.
Speaker 4: And that really might involve someone talking to a mental
Speaker 4: health therapist or a mental health clinician or a psychiatrist, psychologists,
Speaker 4: what have you, but also talking about like what are
Speaker 4: the things that make me me? What are the and
Speaker 4: maybe what are the negative coping strategy? Yes, that I
Speaker 4: was using before the pandemic, before COVID, that I've carried
Speaker 4: with me into this pandemic snacks.
Speaker 2: Yes, I was just looking all of that in.
Speaker 4: To have you've been quiet? What are you thinking over there?
Speaker 2: I've just been thinking that.
Speaker 1: Like one of the what I love, well, I guess
Speaker 1: if there is any bright side to all of this
Speaker 1: darkness is how comfortable people have gotten talking about therapy
Speaker 1: and suggesting therapy to each other. And when I mean people,
Speaker 1: I mean black folks. That never was a thing. It
Speaker 1: was like gree you better pray. No one talked about therapy,
Speaker 1: and it's just become like I just said it to
Speaker 1: someone the other day.
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, well you know, have you considered therapy?
Speaker 1: They're like yeah, yeah, even like my CHURCHI friends, which
Speaker 1: is like, I mean, you know, that was never a thing.
Speaker 1: Like when I have a super churchy friend and she
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I talk to my therapist today was
Speaker 1: so great, and I just thought, you know, if there
Speaker 1: is a bright side is the fact that people are
Speaker 1: understanding that you need help and that going to therapy
Speaker 1: is not a replacement for God in prayer, and that
Speaker 1: they can work in tandem together.
Speaker 4: Thank you, you know.
Speaker 1: And I'm loving because people like you know, like Sarah
Speaker 1: Jakes Robert, she says that all the time, which I
Speaker 1: love because so many people look up to her TJ's daughter,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, So I guess I was just thinking
Speaker 1: about that because quite honestly, I've been dragging my feet.
Speaker 1: I've been needing a therapist. I want a black woman
Speaker 1: for the longest, just to there are what I do.
Speaker 1: I have several companies that I want. It could be
Speaker 1: really stressful and sometimes I won't even know that I'm
Speaker 1: stressed until I'm like, yeah, so what's the last time
Speaker 1: you slept fully? You know, So just having a place
Speaker 1: to because I'm like the go to for everyone. There's
Speaker 1: literally times when I feel like I'm everyone's pulling a
Speaker 1: finger a toe. Yes, I'm just like like what people
Speaker 1: are like, I text you, I'm like I have fifty
Speaker 1: unread text.
Speaker 2: Text is a new email.
Speaker 1: I mean so yeah, So, I mean, I just think
Speaker 1: that if if anything else, it just is like TIVI
Speaker 1: and A, you need to find a therapist. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I've been dragging my feet. I guess I'm
Speaker 1: just like, ugh, I don't feel like interviewing people and
Speaker 1: figuring out the right person, and how am I going
Speaker 1: to make time for them? I don't even have time
Speaker 1: for myself.
Speaker 4: True, But then you know, it's funny, there was something there.
Speaker 4: There was like this work. It was like busy work
Speaker 4: that I had to complete for my job, and I
Speaker 4: finally got around to like finishing it today and I
Speaker 4: was like, it's gonna say so long, and I don't
Speaker 4: feel like doing it. It literally was data entry like this.
Speaker 4: It was not a big deal. And then today when
Speaker 4: I was doing it now that like, I'm not you know,
Speaker 4: my motivation is better because I'm not depressed. I was like, eman,
Speaker 4: you could have been done that, but I didn't get
Speaker 4: on myself about it. I was like, you know what,
Speaker 4: we're going to use this as a you know, a
Speaker 4: learning point, Like you didn't do it before because you
Speaker 4: weren't feeling right, and you got some help and now
Speaker 4: you feel better, and that's okay, so I will. But
Speaker 4: something that you said just now reminded me of the
Speaker 4: fact that a lot of people, and I think, especially
Speaker 4: like I'm Generation X because I'm I'm almost forty five,
Speaker 4: so but Generation X, the baby boomers, they always get
Speaker 4: on millennials and Gen Z like, oh, you are so
Speaker 4: lazy and youing your cell phones and this, that and
Speaker 4: the third. But honestly, I think not think. I definitely
Speaker 4: know just by following social media trends and whatnot, that
Speaker 4: if it weren't for the black millennials, we would not
Speaker 4: be talking about therapy like it's nothing like oh yeah,
Speaker 4: like cause they'll legit be like, oh I got a therapist,
Speaker 4: I got an individual therapist, I got a group therapist.
Speaker 4: Then I have a therapist that I check in with
Speaker 4: like every two months. Like they're very pro therapy. And
Speaker 4: as much as they were maligned and for I guess
Speaker 4: for being like the quote unquote adderall generation, they are
Speaker 4: really taking up the charge to just make it very normal.
Speaker 4: And I really appreciate that. You're welcome.
Speaker 1: Many millennial and I'm I'm generating next as well. I'm
Speaker 1: forty doctor money, so I'm Generation lm X as well.
Speaker 1: So Mindy's are a local millennial. I'm almost like, what
Speaker 1: did the millennials say? Even though sometimes Mandy's like an
Speaker 1: old lady, I'm like, girl, get with it.
Speaker 3: I'm a layered and complex individual like everyone else. I
Speaker 3: guess it's just like, don't feel it's it's the it's
Speaker 3: the negative thought spiral, which is and this is for
Speaker 3: me and food because listen, my coping mechanism is food.
Speaker 3: And I am really appalled at how much weight I
Speaker 3: put on in this pandemic. But it's almost like the
Speaker 3: shame of the eating habits that have plagued me for
Speaker 3: my entire life stops me from doing the things that
Speaker 3: I know I can do to make myself feel better,
Speaker 3: and then I feel bad. So then I just layered
Speaker 3: on with more food. And it's it's this like self
Speaker 3: fulfilling negative prophecy that man, I'm just like, and I
Speaker 3: start beating myself up because I'm like Jesus Christ, like,
Speaker 3: you're thirty something years old, shouldn't you be for this
Speaker 3: by now? This isn't cute, But again that we're just
Speaker 3: we're so hard on ourselves, and I this conversation right
Speaker 3: now is just reminding me like we just as much
Speaker 3: as as much as I say it, I know intellectually
Speaker 3: I need to be nicer to myself and just like
Speaker 3: one day after the next. But it's it's really hard
Speaker 3: to like be a human today, a black human, a woman, human, age, location, whatever,
Speaker 3: just a human in your specific part.
Speaker 4: Of the world. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned like
Speaker 4: like you're trying to intellectualize your your desire to want
Speaker 4: to make yourself feel better by eating, right, So not
Speaker 4: that I mean I'm using an eating disorder as an example.
Speaker 4: I'm not saying you have eating disorder, but yeah, but
Speaker 4: probably I do go ahead when but when people are
Speaker 4: when people let's say, have binge eating disorder or even
Speaker 4: anorexia nervosa or bulimia where they binge and then they purge.
Speaker 4: I used to act work at a hospital, an inpatient hospital,
Speaker 4: with patients who had really really severe eating disorders, and
Speaker 4: the one thing that they all told me, whether they
Speaker 4: were binging, they're binging food or restricting their food or
Speaker 4: purging their food, is that they would get high from
Speaker 4: the maladaptive behavior. So anorexics get high when they're not
Speaker 4: like when I guess when their blood sugar drops. I
Speaker 4: don't know because I'm not innarexic, but they do feel
Speaker 4: this state of euphoria, and it's kind of similar when
Speaker 4: you know, I would say most of us, myself included,
Speaker 4: have gained weight during this pandemic because it's like like
Speaker 4: last month, I was like, donuts are amazing, and that's
Speaker 4: really it. So I'd like six, and I'm gonna eat
Speaker 4: them every day. I'm gonna eat six donuts every day,
Speaker 4: and that's that because it is boosting your serotonin in
Speaker 4: your brain and that's making you feel better, but temporarily,
Speaker 4: and then the guilts and the shame sets in. So
Speaker 4: it's interesting that you know, you, even me, we like
Speaker 4: we're creatures that we can Human beings are are creatures
Speaker 4: that can, you know, intellectualize anything. So it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 4: why do I keep doing this? I've been doing this
Speaker 4: since I was a kid. It's not something that you
Speaker 4: can really, it's not something that you woke up one
Speaker 4: day and decided to do. It's something that your brain decided, well,
Speaker 4: is your serotonin lo, then let's eat everything and then
Speaker 4: and then we'll feel better for maybe like thirty minutes.
Speaker 4: So again, like what you just said in terms of
Speaker 4: you know, we need to stop beating beating each other
Speaker 4: up so much. It's that's really what it is. And
Speaker 4: I know it's easier said than done, but I've really
Speaker 4: been trying to on the daily, like just think about
Speaker 4: things like you know what, like, oh, you had to
Speaker 4: pay that parking ticket. You know what, it happens, pay
Speaker 4: the parking ticket, like whereas before I would just look
Speaker 4: at it and then just get mad and then I
Speaker 4: flip it over and then you know, I'm like a
Speaker 4: day before I'm gonna get you know, I have to
Speaker 4: owe the city double. Like There's so many things that
Speaker 4: I have personally guilted myself over that completely make no sense,
Speaker 4: but that was a function of me having symptoms of
Speaker 4: mental illness.
Speaker 3: I feel like we could keep talking and talking and
Speaker 3: talking talking, Doctor Money, It's been really amazing you having
Speaker 3: amazing you. It's been so amazing having you on the
Speaker 3: show today. I just mean it's been amazing you both.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you, thank you. Where can people find
Speaker 3: out more about you and what you have going on?
Speaker 4: Now? Okay? Sure, So I'm doctor Emani. I have all
Speaker 4: social media pretty much, but I would say the place
Speaker 4: that I'm most active is Instagram. So I can be
Speaker 4: found on Instagram at doctor d O C t O
Speaker 4: R dot Imani. I also have a website of the
Speaker 4: same name. It's but it's doctor Hyphenemani dot com. People
Speaker 4: can find me on YouTube just search for my name again,
Speaker 4: it's doctor the word spelled out. Imani and I have
Speaker 4: a podcast which is called Imani's State of Mind, and
Speaker 4: it's pretty much everywhere there are streaming there's a streaming
Speaker 4: podcast platform. Amani State of Mind is essentially me and
Speaker 4: one of my best friends, and we talk about mental
Speaker 4: health and mental illness and wellness, but we talk about
Speaker 4: it in a very casual, pop culture based situation, so
Speaker 4: it's it's not it's not it's not a sad podcast.
Speaker 4: Like we're definitely giggling the whole time and just like
Speaker 4: just acting silly. But you know, I'm someone who that's
Speaker 4: my personality. I'm just kind of goofy by nature, and
Speaker 4: that's how I am with my patients and my friends,
Speaker 4: and so I wanted to at least show people that
Speaker 4: mental health doesn't have to be dour and sad and scary.
Speaker 4: It actually can be a lot of fun. So that's
Speaker 4: that's really kind of like my baby, So that's why
Speaker 4: I spent so much time explaining that. But but yeah,
Speaker 4: Emani state of Mind, YouTube, Instagram, my website. I guess
Speaker 4: if you want to see me, you could always go
Speaker 4: to Bravo dot com. Sorry, BravoTV dot com. I'm one
Speaker 4: of the cast members of Married to Medicine Los Angeles. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and I think I pretty much exhausted all of my
Speaker 4: oh my avenues. What's your address? I know, right, Okay,
Speaker 4: So I'm just kidding. Well, thank you so so much.
Speaker 4: This was illuminating.
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like if every therapist was like you,
Speaker 3: people would not be afraid to go to therapist.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's so nice. Yeah, I'm an open book because
Speaker 4: I'm like, I mean, the patients that I see, I
Speaker 4: have clients, so because people are going to ask us,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, what'd you say? I said?
Speaker 3: People are going to ask us. Yeah, how can I
Speaker 3: get an appointment with doctor Amani?
Speaker 4: So okay, I have been I have been considering reopening
Speaker 4: my private practice because that actually has been occurring more.
Speaker 4: But the patients that I see are actually their referrals
Speaker 4: through the hospital I work for, So I would I
Speaker 4: would say, probably the best way to get in a
Speaker 4: quote unquote appointment with me is to listen to my podcast.
Speaker 3: It's really good, y'all listen to the most recent when
Speaker 3: the New Normal, and it felt like your friend on
Speaker 3: the other end of it was like everybody else just like,
Speaker 3: don't tell me it's the new normal. I refuse to
Speaker 3: believe it. Yeah, Cam as well, but yeah, we had
Speaker 3: we have a really good time. But yeah, I just
Speaker 3: wanted to have somebody on my podcast that would be
Speaker 3: the common person as opposed to me. Who you know,
Speaker 3: if if, if you you know, keeps talking to me,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna start sounding like, you know, a professor, and
Speaker 3: I don't want to do that.
Speaker 4: You went to Xavier. True yeah, true, the doctor fact
Speaker 4: true true true true.
Speaker 3: All right, well y'all go check out Doctor and Money everywhere,
Speaker 3: and thank you again Doctor Money for coming on Brown Ambition.
Speaker 4: Of course, thank you. This was super fun. I'm glad
Speaker 4: I got to meet you guys.