WEBVTT - Canadian Finance Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne Talks Tariffs 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:09.360 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. G twenty finance ministers 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:12.320 are currently meeting in South Africa, and last hour, Bloomberg 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.880 correspondent Oliver Crook spoke with Canada's finance minister about the 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:17.800 ongoing trade discussions. Take a listen. 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:20.000 First of all, I'll speak as the chair of the 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:20.520 G seven. 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:24.440 You know, we hosted colleagues in BAMFA recently in Canada. 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:27.080 The mission was storing it back to basis, you know, 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.800 to look at you know, how we're going stability and growth. 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:34.559 What I've said this morning in a number of plenary 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.920 was we cannot allow uncertainty to become the new certainty. 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.199 You know, we need to restore our consumer confidence, we 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.440 need to restore business confidence, we need to restore investor confidence. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:47.600 And it's incumbent upon obviously the G seven countries will 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.920 have a meeting, a virtual meeting tomorrow. It's also incumbent 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.680 upon the G twenty to adopt policies and to deal 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.960 with the issues we're facing together so that we bring 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.680 back that level of certainty that is so much needed. 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.400 You know, I always say stability predictive me in the 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:05.440 rule of liszt an eye the men and short supply, 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.200 and therefore for us and what you feel, you know, 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:13.640 sadly in the way, it seems that you know, you 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:18.160 are in a place where you kind of normalize trade 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:22.160 restriction and some level of tariffs, and obviously this has 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:27.680 created a number of tensions, and therefore we seem to 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:30.560 be in the world where you know, this is becoming 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.520 more the norm in terms of some some trade restriction 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:37.480 and some teriffs you know, imposed on different countries. 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.200 And in terms of the conversations that you're having with 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.320 the Trump administration more specific because the Europeans have basically 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:43.840 come to terms with the idea that they're not going 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.120 to get zero for zero, would you consider that zero 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.520 for zero as an ambition is dead? From Knad's point. 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:50.200 Of well, would say the Prime minister has been Prime 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:52.760 Minister of Canada has been, you know, speaking on that 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:54.760 he said, and I support that he said. 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.480 There there's a lot of evidence to suggest. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:01.280 That, you know, you you can have a trade deal 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.360 with the United States without tariffs. I mean, there's no 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.400 evidence to suggest that when you look at the world today. 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:08.200 That's what I'm saying. 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:13.680 It seems that seemingly what you've seen time and time 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.440 again that you know, there's some level of trade restriction 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:18.400 and some level of terrorists that have been imposed. 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:20.200 So where do you think, pretty much all countries. 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:21.400 Where do you think that baseline is going to be 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.520 for Canada And at what baseline does does Canada then 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:25.560 have to retaliate? 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:30.000 Well, listen, we said a number of things to our 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:32.920 American friends. First of all, we want to work together, 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.880 so obviously we're going to continue, We're going to double 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:38.560 down on our negotiation. You know, Canada is an important 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:43.680 partner for the United States. I remind our American friends 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.160 always that we are the largest customer in the United States. 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.080 We buy more from the US than. 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.760 China, Japan, the UK and friends combined. We are the 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:55.240 second largest investor in. 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:55.120 The United States. 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:58.600 And also the distinction between Canada others is the nature 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.240 the integrated nature of our supply chain. So a decision 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.240 on one side of the border as an impact on 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.120 both sides. Just the nature of things. So we're gonna 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.240 double down in our effort to negotiate the best possible 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:14.040 deal for Canada and Canadian workers. At the same time, 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.360 we're certainly gonna make sure we have measures to protect 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.120 our industry and our workers and we're gonna build Canada. 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.400 You know, the Prime Minister is being quoted as saying, 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.000 you know, we can give ourselves far more than anyone 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:27.960 can take away from us. And that's why you've seen 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.640 that kind of sentiment Canada to build. 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.880 More infrastructure, to diversify. 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.400 The market, because you know, Canada is a large G 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:38.920 seven country. You know, we're the only G seven country 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:42.200 with the free trade agreement with all other G seven nations, 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.440 So in a sense, we are in a great position 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:46.440 to diversify. If you look at the pillar of growth, 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:51.120 Canada offers a number of opportunities and it's it's obvious 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.160 when you talk to colleagues zero, the G twenty. 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:54.880 And every sort of negotiation, there's a stick in a 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.880 carrot side of the negotiation. Are on the carrot side 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.760 of things, are you willing to talk about their duties 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:02.240 or is that a redline for Canada? And on the 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.960 stick side, the digital taxes come back. Digital services taxes 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:07.640 come back if you fail to get a deal. 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.880 Well, we've been clear from the get go that the 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.720 issue around supply management is off the table. So that's 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:17.080 step one when it comes to the digital service tax. 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:21.320 We have made our position clear. We have heard from 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:25.719 the President. We always anticipated that be part of a 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:30.160 larger discussion, but I would say in the same time 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:32.880 in that week we probably talked less about that. But 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.520 the fact that the G seven issue is statement on 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:39.920 section eight ninety nine and finding a compromise position where 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.880 we'll have a dual system. I think this is a 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.279 great achievement. You know, for me, my job as the 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.240 chair of the G seven is to maintain unity in 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.799 the G seven but also to fund common ground. 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:52.520 I mean, this was a place where we could find 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:53.080 common ground. 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.320 And I hope, you know tomorrow will have a discussion 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.320 with the G seven colleagues. And certainly I always say 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.080 all the answers are around the table, you know, if 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.640 you talk about energy, natural resources, critical minerals. So we 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.520 should be addressing the big issues, which is over capacity, 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.280 non market practices. That's really what's hurting our domestic economy. 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.159 And we're best place to address these issues together. 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:17.080 And you say that the solutions are always at the table, 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.200 but not everybody is always at the table. For example, 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.760 Scott Besson is absent from this meeting. Donald Trump left 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.080 the meeting in Canada a little bit early I'd like 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.159 to have your understanding in terms of negotiating with a 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.159 larger block, say than Canada is the EU. Do you 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.360 think they will reach a position where it would make 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.360 sense for Canada to band up with other like countries 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.839 the EU, Canada, South Korea, Japan. Is that a conversation 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:41.640 that you're having you had that meeting a little bit 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:42.360 earlier today. 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:44.360 Well, I mean, first of all, when I have a 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:48.320 virtual meeting with Secretary best Send tomorrow, I understand he's traveling, 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:50.800 so we're going to be making sure we can be 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:55.920 connecting together. And the other thing today what I think 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.160 resonated the most, and I started with that in our interview, 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.359 is that we cannot let uncertainty become the new certainty. 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.480 I think that is probably the word that you've heard 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.240 the most in the sessions today was the word uncertainty. 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.920 So I said, it's incumbent upon us to make sure 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.320 that you know uncertainty is not the new certainty in 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:19.040 the world that you know. Seemingly it seems to suggest 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:22.000 and what we've seen that you know there'll be trade 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.839 restrictions will be in a world of trade restrictions, they'll 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:29.400 be in the world also of tariffs, but we need 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.039 to find ways to work together to address this issue, 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:38.760 these issues which are all related. Sooner would be the 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.960 better because what we need to provide back to the 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:46.200 market is that level of confidence so that investors, consumer 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.159 and businesses can start investing again. 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:50.640 And you know that we find a way forward. 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.640 So that is the issue we've been tackling today, and 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.440 that's the uncertainty we're going to be talking tomorrow. Resiliency 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.680 of supply chain. Making sure we work together because what 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.800 we need also to address is vulnerabilities, and that is 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.000 very clear when you look at supply chains and how 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:07.600 we can address these vulnerabilities. 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:09.520 And then the question also in Ukraine. You just came 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.520 from the recovery conference in Rome, so you met with 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.760 a number of the Ukrainian delegation and others in European ones. 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.840 Donald Trump now says he's willing to send sell more 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.640 arms to the Ukrainians if NATO the Europeans pay for it. 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.640 Which would Canada join into that program to buy more 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:24.200 arms for you. 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.080 We've been there to the beginning. 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.520 You know, Canada invested close to twenty two billion Canadian 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:33.600 dollar to support Ukraine. The thing that we have said 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.480 also very significantly at the G seven. You may recall 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.920 when we are at the meeting in Banff, thanks to 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.160 the work that we've done with Secretary Bess and we 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:46.480 said very clearly that anyone who supported Russia and its 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:51.040 unjustified work against Ukraine cannot benefit directly and directly from 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:51.800 the reconstruction. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:55.240 This is a baseline. G seven was very clear on that. 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.480 This is something that was reaffirmed also at the reconstruction 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:03.480 conference in and certainly just on the reconstruction, they'll come 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:04.040 to the arms. 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:05.360 But just think about that. 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.560 People were saying, this is kind of the Marshall Plan 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:09.600 for the twenty first century, because if you look at 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:13.520 the IMF figure to reconstruct Ukraine, you're talking of nord 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.160 of five hundred twenty five billion US daughter about for 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.320 about a decade. So certainly there's a lot to be done. 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:23.600 Canada has made its last installment on the alone acceleration 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.200 of five billion, so when it comes to how we 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:30.480 can support further Ukraine, Canada has always been at the table. 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.040 So we'll certainly look at the proposal that is being 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:33.840 put on the table.