1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. G twenty finance ministers 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: are currently meeting in South Africa, and last hour, Bloomberg 3 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: correspondent Oliver Crook spoke with Canada's finance minister about the 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: ongoing trade discussions. Take a listen. 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: First of all, I'll speak as the chair of the 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 2: G seven. 7 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 3: You know, we hosted colleagues in BAMFA recently in Canada. 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 3: The mission was storing it back to basis, you know, 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 3: to look at you know, how we're going stability and growth. 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 3: What I've said this morning in a number of plenary 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 3: was we cannot allow uncertainty to become the new certainty. 12 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 3: You know, we need to restore our consumer confidence, we 13 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 3: need to restore business confidence, we need to restore investor confidence. 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 3: And it's incumbent upon obviously the G seven countries will 15 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 3: have a meeting, a virtual meeting tomorrow. It's also incumbent 16 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 3: upon the G twenty to adopt policies and to deal 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 3: with the issues we're facing together so that we bring 18 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 3: back that level of certainty that is so much needed. 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: You know, I always say stability predictive me in the 20 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: rule of liszt an eye the men and short supply, 21 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 3: and therefore for us and what you feel, you know, 22 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 3: sadly in the way, it seems that you know, you 23 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 3: are in a place where you kind of normalize trade 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 3: restriction and some level of tariffs, and obviously this has 25 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 3: created a number of tensions, and therefore we seem to 26 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 3: be in the world where you know, this is becoming 27 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 3: more the norm in terms of some some trade restriction 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 3: and some teriffs you know, imposed on different countries. 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: And in terms of the conversations that you're having with 30 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: the Trump administration more specific because the Europeans have basically 31 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: come to terms with the idea that they're not going 32 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: to get zero for zero, would you consider that zero 33 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: for zero as an ambition is dead? From Knad's point. 34 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 3: Of well, would say the Prime minister has been Prime 35 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 3: Minister of Canada has been, you know, speaking on that 36 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 3: he said, and I support that he said. 37 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: There there's a lot of evidence to suggest. 38 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 3: That, you know, you you can have a trade deal 39 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 3: with the United States without tariffs. I mean, there's no 40 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 3: evidence to suggest that when you look at the world today. 41 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. 42 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 3: It seems that seemingly what you've seen time and time 43 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 3: again that you know, there's some level of trade restriction 44 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 3: and some level of terrorists that have been imposed. 45 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: So where do you think, pretty much all countries. 46 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: Where do you think that baseline is going to be 47 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: for Canada And at what baseline does does Canada then 48 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: have to retaliate? 49 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: Well, listen, we said a number of things to our 50 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 3: American friends. First of all, we want to work together, 51 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 3: so obviously we're going to continue, We're going to double 52 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: down on our negotiation. You know, Canada is an important 53 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 3: partner for the United States. I remind our American friends 54 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: always that we are the largest customer in the United States. 55 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 2: We buy more from the US than. 56 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 3: China, Japan, the UK and friends combined. We are the 57 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 3: second largest investor in. 58 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: The United States. 59 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 3: And also the distinction between Canada others is the nature 60 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 3: the integrated nature of our supply chain. So a decision 61 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 3: on one side of the border as an impact on 62 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 3: both sides. Just the nature of things. So we're gonna 63 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 3: double down in our effort to negotiate the best possible 64 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 3: deal for Canada and Canadian workers. At the same time, 65 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 3: we're certainly gonna make sure we have measures to protect 66 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 3: our industry and our workers and we're gonna build Canada. 67 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 3: You know, the Prime Minister is being quoted as saying, 68 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 3: you know, we can give ourselves far more than anyone 69 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 3: can take away from us. And that's why you've seen 70 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 3: that kind of sentiment Canada to build. 71 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 2: More infrastructure, to diversify. 72 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 3: The market, because you know, Canada is a large G 73 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 3: seven country. You know, we're the only G seven country 74 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 3: with the free trade agreement with all other G seven nations, 75 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 3: So in a sense, we are in a great position 76 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 3: to diversify. If you look at the pillar of growth, 77 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 3: Canada offers a number of opportunities and it's it's obvious 78 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 3: when you talk to colleagues zero, the G twenty. 79 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: And every sort of negotiation, there's a stick in a 80 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: carrot side of the negotiation. Are on the carrot side 81 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: of things, are you willing to talk about their duties 82 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: or is that a redline for Canada? And on the 83 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: stick side, the digital taxes come back. Digital services taxes 84 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: come back if you fail to get a deal. 85 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 3: Well, we've been clear from the get go that the 86 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 3: issue around supply management is off the table. So that's 87 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 3: step one when it comes to the digital service tax. 88 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 3: We have made our position clear. We have heard from 89 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 3: the President. We always anticipated that be part of a 90 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 3: larger discussion, but I would say in the same time 91 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 3: in that week we probably talked less about that. But 92 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 3: the fact that the G seven issue is statement on 93 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 3: section eight ninety nine and finding a compromise position where 94 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: we'll have a dual system. I think this is a 95 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 3: great achievement. You know, for me, my job as the 96 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 3: chair of the G seven is to maintain unity in 97 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,799 Speaker 3: the G seven but also to fund common ground. 98 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 2: I mean, this was a place where we could find 99 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: common ground. 100 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 3: And I hope, you know tomorrow will have a discussion 101 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 3: with the G seven colleagues. And certainly I always say 102 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 3: all the answers are around the table, you know, if 103 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 3: you talk about energy, natural resources, critical minerals. So we 104 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 3: should be addressing the big issues, which is over capacity, 105 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 3: non market practices. That's really what's hurting our domestic economy. 106 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 3: And we're best place to address these issues together. 107 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: And you say that the solutions are always at the table, 108 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: but not everybody is always at the table. For example, 109 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: Scott Besson is absent from this meeting. Donald Trump left 110 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: the meeting in Canada a little bit early I'd like 111 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: to have your understanding in terms of negotiating with a 112 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: larger block, say than Canada is the EU. Do you 113 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: think they will reach a position where it would make 114 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: sense for Canada to band up with other like countries 115 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: the EU, Canada, South Korea, Japan. Is that a conversation 116 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: that you're having you had that meeting a little bit 117 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: earlier today. 118 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, first of all, when I have a 119 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 3: virtual meeting with Secretary best Send tomorrow, I understand he's traveling, 120 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 3: so we're going to be making sure we can be 121 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 3: connecting together. And the other thing today what I think 122 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 3: resonated the most, and I started with that in our interview, 123 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 3: is that we cannot let uncertainty become the new certainty. 124 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 3: I think that is probably the word that you've heard 125 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 3: the most in the sessions today was the word uncertainty. 126 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 3: So I said, it's incumbent upon us to make sure 127 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 3: that you know uncertainty is not the new certainty in 128 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 3: the world that you know. Seemingly it seems to suggest 129 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 3: and what we've seen that you know there'll be trade 130 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 3: restrictions will be in a world of trade restrictions, they'll 131 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 3: be in the world also of tariffs, but we need 132 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 3: to find ways to work together to address this issue, 133 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: these issues which are all related. Sooner would be the 134 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 3: better because what we need to provide back to the 135 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 3: market is that level of confidence so that investors, consumer 136 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 3: and businesses can start investing again. 137 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: And you know that we find a way forward. 138 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 3: So that is the issue we've been tackling today, and 139 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 3: that's the uncertainty we're going to be talking tomorrow. Resiliency 140 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 3: of supply chain. Making sure we work together because what 141 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: we need also to address is vulnerabilities, and that is 142 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 3: very clear when you look at supply chains and how 143 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 3: we can address these vulnerabilities. 144 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: And then the question also in Ukraine. You just came 145 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: from the recovery conference in Rome, so you met with 146 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: a number of the Ukrainian delegation and others in European ones. 147 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: Donald Trump now says he's willing to send sell more 148 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: arms to the Ukrainians if NATO the Europeans pay for it. 149 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: Which would Canada join into that program to buy more 150 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: arms for you. 151 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: We've been there to the beginning. 152 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 3: You know, Canada invested close to twenty two billion Canadian 153 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 3: dollar to support Ukraine. The thing that we have said 154 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 3: also very significantly at the G seven. You may recall 155 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 3: when we are at the meeting in Banff, thanks to 156 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 3: the work that we've done with Secretary Bess and we 157 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: said very clearly that anyone who supported Russia and its 158 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 3: unjustified work against Ukraine cannot benefit directly and directly from 159 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 3: the reconstruction. 160 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: This is a baseline. G seven was very clear on that. 161 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 3: This is something that was reaffirmed also at the reconstruction 162 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: conference in and certainly just on the reconstruction, they'll come 163 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 3: to the arms. 164 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: But just think about that. 165 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 3: People were saying, this is kind of the Marshall Plan 166 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 3: for the twenty first century, because if you look at 167 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 3: the IMF figure to reconstruct Ukraine, you're talking of nord 168 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 3: of five hundred twenty five billion US daughter about for 169 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 3: about a decade. So certainly there's a lot to be done. 170 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 3: Canada has made its last installment on the alone acceleration 171 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 3: of five billion, so when it comes to how we 172 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 3: can support further Ukraine, Canada has always been at the table. 173 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 3: So we'll certainly look at the proposal that is being 174 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 3: put on the table.