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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyon, and this is episode number forty

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Speaker 1: one change the show. We're joined by Kip Adams to

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Speaker 1: discuss the current state of white tales in North America.

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Speaker 1: This is a discussion and you're not going to want

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Speaker 1: to miss all right, welcome to the wire to Hunt podcast,

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Speaker 1: and today, as I mentioned earlier, we've got a great

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Speaker 1: guest in an important topic to discuss. Joining me in

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Speaker 1: Dan today is Kip Adams, who is a certified wildlife

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Speaker 1: biologist and the director of Education and Outreach for the

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Speaker 1: Quality Deer Management Association. But on top of that, in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, he's just simply one of the most knowledgeable

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Speaker 1: and well spoken people I've met on the topic of

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Speaker 1: white tailed deer. That said, part of his role at

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Speaker 1: the QTUM is to study trends and issues across the

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Speaker 1: white tail world and to help educate hunters about what's happening.

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Speaker 1: And that's exactly what we want to discuss with Kip today.

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Speaker 1: In many states, especially in the Midwest, right now, we've

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Speaker 1: been seeing rapidly declining deer herds and harvests, and many

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Speaker 1: other challenges are rising across the country along with that,

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Speaker 1: and the end result has been one of the roughest

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Speaker 1: patches in the white tailed world in decades. So with

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Speaker 1: all that being the case, we're gonna bring Kip on

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Speaker 1: the line here in a minute to discuss all of

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Speaker 1: this and more. But first, Dan, are you ready for this?

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Speaker 1: I hope so, me too. Do you think this is

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Speaker 1: gonna be an interesting conversation? Yeah, I've always kind of

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Speaker 1: found this really interesting because you know, yeah, there's there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of statio sticks to back up people's arguments

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Speaker 1: of what is good and what is bad for the

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Speaker 1: quote unquote dear heard. But um, I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: love it's it's a lot of a lot of it's

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Speaker 1: objective as well, because you know, it comes down to

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Speaker 1: I mean subjective, yeah, subjective, that's right, subjective, objective, subjective anyway,

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Speaker 1: don't delete that out because it makes me sound real,

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Speaker 1: right and if any if anything, Dan, you are real.

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Speaker 1: That's that's so a lot of its subjective. So, um,

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Speaker 1: I just I'm curious of what he has to say

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Speaker 1: on some of that, yeah, I think. Um, if you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much you've been tuned into this,

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Speaker 1: but um, you know, because of because as some people know,

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Speaker 1: I've been working with the National Deer Lines over the

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Speaker 1: last four or five months. Um, I've been privy to

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of feedback from a lot of hunters

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Speaker 1: from across the country, and there is just a tremendous

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Speaker 1: up swell of concern about white tales over the past year,

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Speaker 1: more than you know, I've ever heard. Of course, there's

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Speaker 1: always been complaints every year from different factions, but it

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Speaker 1: seems like now there's definitely, um, kind of a perfect

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Speaker 1: storm of new challenges and issues that are affecting deer

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Speaker 1: in a lot of places and hunters and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's an interesting time to be a white tail hunter.

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Speaker 1: And I was actually working on a larger article for

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Speaker 1: a magazine on this very feet, on this very topic

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Speaker 1: two and have interviewed a bunch of biologists and different

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Speaker 1: professors and wildlife agency representatives and officers and getting a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of different perspectives on this, and UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: if there's anything I can take away from all of that,

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Speaker 1: it's that there's definitely something going on here, like things

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Speaker 1: are definitely changing UM. And that being the case, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think Kip is going to be the perfect guy

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Speaker 1: to talk to about what's happening at that larger level.

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Speaker 1: You know. As I mentioned in that little intro there,

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Speaker 1: you know, kIPS work at the q d M a UM.

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Speaker 1: From what I understand and from conversations conversations with him

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Speaker 1: and others, you know, he's really responsible for, you know,

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Speaker 1: talking to all the biologists, talking to the hunters, talking

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Speaker 1: to UM agencies, talking to all these different representatives across

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Speaker 1: all kind of levels of the deer hunting world to

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Speaker 1: figure out, you know, what's going on out there. So

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Speaker 1: he can understand from from a high level, from a

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand foot view, you know, what are the trends,

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Speaker 1: what are the issues, what are the challenges UM, and

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Speaker 1: then we can start educating and we can start learning.

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Speaker 1: So I know that keeps been working on something called

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Speaker 1: the White Tail Report, which the qut MAY puts out

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Speaker 1: every year, and so I know he's been working on

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Speaker 1: that recently, and that's gonna be coming out here pretty soon,

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Speaker 1: the new two thousand fifteen edition. And I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of the things that they've compiled for that report,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be able to discuss here, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's gonna be I think that's gonna be pretty interesting.

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Speaker 1: So I'm excited to hear what he has to say.

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Speaker 1: I'm interested, um, and I'm definitely looking forward to hearing

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Speaker 1: his perspective on all these different things, because sometimes, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's kind of a doom and gloom perspective, especially recently

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Speaker 1: from a lot of guys. And I'm curious to see

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Speaker 1: what kIPS thoughts are based on, you know, all the

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Speaker 1: hubbub that we've in here and across the news and

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Speaker 1: all media outlets really recently. So it's gonna be good.

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Speaker 1: What I'm curious Dan, what do you think from your

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Speaker 1: experience and your I understand you hunt, you know, white

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Speaker 1: tails in one place, Um, but how do you feel

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Speaker 1: about the state of white tails and the population and

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Speaker 1: the herd just given your personal views and experience, well

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Speaker 1: from you know, just observing the areas that I hunt, Um,

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Speaker 1: and I've hunted them for years now. The the population

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Speaker 1: in my area I feel is down from from previous years.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I first started bow hunting, I'd sit

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Speaker 1: in a tree stand and would see fifteen to twenty

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Speaker 1: different deer at night, and that's a lot. Yeah, this year, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, fast forward ten years and those numbers are down.

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Speaker 1: But this year was the highest quality of buck that

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen in in a hunting season as far

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Speaker 1: as an age class, you know, through trail cameras and whatnot,

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Speaker 1: and as far as numbers, I felt there down. I

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Speaker 1: almost felt like the properties that I was hunting had

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Speaker 1: a bit of a swing as far as our ratio

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Speaker 1: is concerned, too more bucks than those And I don't

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Speaker 1: I think, I'm not a percent sure what the q

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Speaker 1: d m A says that the right ratio is supposed

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Speaker 1: to be, but I would say it was over too

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Speaker 1: two bucks per doll interesting and yeah, so so so

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Speaker 1: for me, I feel I'm okay with lower numbers, higher quality. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think. Um. You know an interesting thing here to

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Speaker 1: take away from a little bit of what you just

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Speaker 1: said there is the fact that right when we're taught,

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Speaker 1: when when I ask you the question what do you

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Speaker 1: feel how do you feel about the state of white

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Speaker 1: tails right now? Your answer, in your opinions gonna be

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Speaker 1: based on your experience right there in your neck of

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Speaker 1: the woods where you hunt right, um. And that's how

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Speaker 1: it is for pretty much everyone. So when I asked,

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Speaker 1: you know, Bob from Indiana, what do you think about

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Speaker 1: white tails right now? What white tail hunting? About the

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Speaker 1: deer situation, They're gonna give you their observations. You know,

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Speaker 1: their opinions can be almost saurily solely based on their

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Speaker 1: observations right in their neck of the woods from the

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Speaker 1: ten times they went out or the twenty times they

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Speaker 1: want on their forty acres or their acres or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is. Um. And so you get a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: and this is perfectly natural, but we all develop our

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Speaker 1: own idea of what's going on and what the situation

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Speaker 1: is and what the issues are, all based on our

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Speaker 1: own personal experiences in our little neck of the woods

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Speaker 1: where we hunt. But we all kind of get this

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Speaker 1: little tunnel vision because our whole opinion on the issues

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Speaker 1: or the situation is based on, you know, our little

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Speaker 1: piece of the pie um. And so you get some

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Speaker 1: people that are really upset, or some people that are

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Speaker 1: really happy, or some people that are really concerned, or

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Speaker 1: some people that are totally content, and it's all based

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Speaker 1: on you know, this one kind of looking through a straw.

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Speaker 1: They're looking through the straw, at their little piece. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so you've got millions of hunters that are all

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Speaker 1: kind of looking at the situation, the white tail situation,

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Speaker 1: through the little straw. And what I'm starting to see

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Speaker 1: now that I've been involved with this organizations and trying

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Speaker 1: to look at the bigger picture and seeing all the

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Speaker 1: different perspectives and all the different issues and how they're

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Speaker 1: different across all over the country. You know, there's certain

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Speaker 1: states where we're seeing some real, you know, significant issues,

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Speaker 1: and then there's other states where things are totally hunky dory,

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Speaker 1: at least at a high level. UM. So it's an

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Speaker 1: interesting time because things are really different across different parts

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Speaker 1: of the country. Some hunters are very happy, some hunters

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Speaker 1: are really upset. Some places populations are declining, and maybe

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Speaker 1: that's a good thing because they're too high. Some places

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Speaker 1: populations are arising, and maybe that's a good thing too

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Speaker 1: because they're too low. Um. There's a lot of different things,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of things are in flux. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, the point of me mentioning all that is

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Speaker 1: that when we pull Kip on here in a in

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Speaker 1: a minute, I think he's going to be a give

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Speaker 1: us this high level overview instead of looking through a

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Speaker 1: straw that I look through, where that maybe you look through,

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Speaker 1: you know, the average guy one of our listeners. I

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Speaker 1: think Kip's gonna be able give us a perspective that looks,

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Speaker 1: you know, not at the straw, but he's looking at

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Speaker 1: the whole big, big gulp, eighty four ounds cup and

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Speaker 1: you can see the whole picture based on the fact,

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Speaker 1: he's going to talk to people across the country and

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Speaker 1: get those perspectives and look at the actual data, not

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Speaker 1: just what Bill says, but you know what all the

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Speaker 1: numbers are saying. So I'm interested. I'm interested to see

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Speaker 1: what the status is because you know, I've been hearing

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Speaker 1: people cry bloody murder, you know, over the past six

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Speaker 1: months or a year or so, and for good reason

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Speaker 1: in a lot of cases. You know, the more numbers

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Speaker 1: I see, the more concerned I get. But I want

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Speaker 1: to I want to see if Kip's gonna give us

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Speaker 1: reality check or if he's gonna say, hey, there are

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Speaker 1: some issues. Um I don't know. So that said, what

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Speaker 1: do you think about pulling Kip Adams on the line

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Speaker 1: and just getting started with this conversation. I say, we

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Speaker 1: get the party started, all right, let's do it all

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Speaker 1: right here with this now is Hip Adams, welcome to show. Kip.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Martin Man. I appreciate it absolutely. We are,

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Speaker 1: you know, as we were just talking about a little

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Speaker 1: bit earlier, we're really excited to talk to you, given

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Speaker 1: you know, everything that's been happening in the white tailed

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Speaker 1: world over the last couple of years. There's I think

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Speaker 1: a fever pitch of people talking about, you know, how

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Speaker 1: things are changing and some of the issues affecting deer

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Speaker 1: across the country right now. And I know, given your work,

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Speaker 1: you've got some interesting perspective on that. Now. Earlier in

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Speaker 1: the show, I gave our audience a brief instruction to

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Speaker 1: who you are and what you do. But you'll be

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Speaker 1: interested to hear from you, you know, could you share

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Speaker 1: with us a bit more about your background into you know,

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Speaker 1: what you've done to this point related to deer and

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Speaker 1: deer management and kind of what you do now. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I grew up in northern Pennsylvania, and i grew up

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Speaker 1: in a hunting family, so I've always been involved in

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Speaker 1: the outdoors. Uh, you know, I spent my entire life

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Speaker 1: in the woods, and it was very fortunate to learn

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Speaker 1: early on that that's what I wanted to do for

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Speaker 1: a career. So I went to school, UM, got a

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Speaker 1: whilife degree, went to the University of Hampshire for a

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Speaker 1: graduate degree, and spent the last twenty or twenty five

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Speaker 1: years either conducting research on deer or managing deer for

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Speaker 1: for state wildlife agencies, or the last thirteen working with

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Speaker 1: q D m a UM. I have a unique perspective

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Speaker 1: and that the first two jobs I had out of

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Speaker 1: graduate school or for state, I managed a bunch of

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Speaker 1: land in central Florida for the Florida Game and Fish Commission,

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Speaker 1: and then I went back to New Hampshire and took

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Speaker 1: over as the state's deer and bear biologists in the

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Speaker 1: New Hampshire Fishing Game Department. So that gave me a

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Speaker 1: very good feel for you know what it takes to

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Speaker 1: manage a state wide deer heard um, all of the

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Speaker 1: constituents that are involved, you know, all of the issues

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Speaker 1: that come and win that. You know, you have to

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Speaker 1: look at the biology of it, the social nature of it,

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Speaker 1: the politics of it. So uh that helps me tremendously

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Speaker 1: at my job with q D m a working with

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Speaker 1: state agencies and hunters and landowners because I have a

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Speaker 1: pretty good feel for all the factors that go into

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Speaker 1: to managing deer um, certainly a lot more than just

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Speaker 1: the science end of it, and uh and hopefully a

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Speaker 1: little bit on how to be successful mention all of

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Speaker 1: those stakeholders together to make a very successful program. Because

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Speaker 1: at heart, I'm a deer hunter more than anything else.

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Speaker 1: So I'm lucky to be a dear biologist. But I

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Speaker 1: often say my seminars, I am first and foremost a

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Speaker 1: deer hunter, and so that's what's near and dear to

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Speaker 1: my heart. Yeah. I love that perspective that you bring

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Speaker 1: given your past experience as a biologist also as a hunter.

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Speaker 1: You know, also in your role to qute you may

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Speaker 1: You've got some really interesting experiences that I think give you.

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Speaker 1: Um you know this almost three degree perspective that a

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Speaker 1: lot of us don't have. You're able to see it

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Speaker 1: from all these different angles. Um you know that said,

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Speaker 1: can you tell us a little bit more about what

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Speaker 1: you do now with the Quality Deer Management Association. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I'm our director of Education and Outreach, and what that

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Speaker 1: means is that that I oversee our reach program and

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Speaker 1: reaches an acronym the stands for research, educate, advocate, certify

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Speaker 1: and hunt and UH and those five things and capsuleate

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Speaker 1: QT MAZE mission. So I'm lucky to get it to

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Speaker 1: work with a number of great people there. But oversee

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Speaker 1: each of those components on what QTMY does on a

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Speaker 1: daily basis, such as the research programs that we get

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Speaker 1: involved with. UM. We're able to secure funding from a

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Speaker 1: few different sources to help put funds towards valuable research

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Speaker 1: projects on deer and habitat. We help design some research projects.

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Speaker 1: And the nice thing about it is, you know, we

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Speaker 1: we do all of this with hunters in mind, and

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Speaker 1: that it's really nice to know exactly how dear see

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Speaker 1: or here. But we take the tex that all right,

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Speaker 1: let's look at that from a hunting perspective, and how

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Speaker 1: can that help hunters when we help get involved with

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Speaker 1: research projects. So so I enjoy the research in UH,

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Speaker 1: the educational end, that's really the horse that brought QDM

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Speaker 1: A to the race, and so I get that to

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Speaker 1: help oversee all of the different educational programs that we

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Speaker 1: have UM, whether that stuff that's in print or in

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Speaker 1: posters or DVDs, or on television or on the web.

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Speaker 1: We've we've produced that stuff in a lot of different

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Speaker 1: formats just because hunters today like to recee even different ways.

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Speaker 1: Though old hunters tend to like to have something in

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Speaker 1: their hands, uh you know, a hard copy of them

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Speaker 1: to look at, where a lot of younger hunters and

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Speaker 1: youth hunters much prefer something on the web or something

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Speaker 1: digital format. So we try to keep it exciting, try

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Speaker 1: to keep it fresh so that we can provide information

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Speaker 1: in a format that all hunters can use and enjoy

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Speaker 1: and and uh gain value from. Uh. The advocacy part

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Speaker 1: is it's amazing the number of legislative bills that impact

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Speaker 1: deer each year. Unfortunately many of them would would impact negatively.

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Speaker 1: So uh qum A fights for for hunters rights like

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Speaker 1: nobody else with regard to the supporting good legislation, opposing

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Speaker 1: bad legislation, you know, and just making sure that we

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Speaker 1: get good information to legislators to help them make good

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Speaker 1: decisions on hey, you know, is is this good for

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Speaker 1: hunting or not? And uh, well, we get involved with

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Speaker 1: a lot of advocacy the users each year along those lines,

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Speaker 1: um you know, and many people don't realize they don't

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Speaker 1: have a clue what's going on out there with regard

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Speaker 1: to legislation, and and I certainly didn't before I was

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Speaker 1: in this role, but it is amazing, UM what's going

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Speaker 1: on in that world that would directly impact deer management

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Speaker 1: UM if a lot of that stuff did pass. From

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Speaker 1: the certification end that we have certification programs both for

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Speaker 1: individuals which is what we call our Dear Steward program UM,

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Speaker 1: as well as for land a land certification program. And uh,

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Speaker 1: we have our programs manager, Matt Ross, who I know

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Speaker 1: you know well does a great job of that. But

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Speaker 1: I get to work with Matt regularly to to put

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Speaker 1: on those programs, to speak at them, and to make

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Speaker 1: sure that we're delivering the highest quality programs available to folks.

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Speaker 1: And the last part is the hunt UM. That's our hunting,

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Speaker 1: heritage peace and that's where our mentored Hunting program falls

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Speaker 1: into that UM. That's where our youth program, which we

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Speaker 1: affectionately call the rat pack um falls into that. Hank Forsters,

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Speaker 1: our our youth program manager. And you know, we have

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Speaker 1: a whole section on just kids and youth that's about

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Speaker 1: a lot more than just hunting. You know, we certainly

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Speaker 1: advocate to take kids hunting. But this is about just

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Speaker 1: getting into the woods, taking them fish and teach them

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Speaker 1: about the outdoors. Let him explore. So why it's our

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Speaker 1: youth program is a really cool program that Uh, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm fortunate to get to work with a little bit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a that's a terrific initiative to Um.

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Speaker 1: I think the other thing I really take away from

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Speaker 1: that terrific explanations that you are a busy man, Kip,

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Speaker 1: you are very busy. That's a good thing. Though if

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Speaker 1: I wasn't busy or that that would be bad for deer.

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Speaker 1: So it's uh, you know, I I love what I do.

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Speaker 1: I'm very lucky to get to do what I do.

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Speaker 1: So I'm glad there's there's so much out there that

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Speaker 1: means that deer are important and hunters are important, and

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Speaker 1: uh so that's a good thing. Yeah. Absolutely. Now one

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Speaker 1: more thing I know you also work on is the

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Speaker 1: annual white Tail Report that The Cutie May releases each year.

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Speaker 1: And you know in past reports I've seen you know

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Speaker 1: that you guys look at a lot of the top

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Speaker 1: issues and trends that affect deer across the country. UM,

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Speaker 1: and I know that you are wrapping that up right

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Speaker 1: now for the new for two thousand and fifteen. So

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you've been, you know, diving deep into all

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Speaker 1: these different topics that are, um I think of interest

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Speaker 1: to hunters across the country. Especially with the two thousand

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Speaker 1: and fourteen season just wrapping up and all the harvest

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Speaker 1: numbers coming in, there's lots of people, you know, having

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Speaker 1: questions about why are these numbers the way they are,

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Speaker 1: or what's happening to the white deale herds, or are

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Speaker 1: things going well or things going bad? There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions. So what I wanted to frame the majority

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Speaker 1: of our conversation today around was this this question of

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Speaker 1: you know, what's the current state of white tails in

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Speaker 1: North America. So to start kept at a very high level,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, given everything you've been looking into and what

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Speaker 1: you found and what you've heard right now, what is

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Speaker 1: your diagnosis of the state of white tails in North America?

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Speaker 1: We look okay, Marie, I'm an optimist, So so I'll

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Speaker 1: start by saying, there's a lot of very good things

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Speaker 1: going on with your hunting and deer management right now. UM.

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Speaker 1: For instance, we know that this past year, and we

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Speaker 1: killed a record low percentage of yearling bucks in the harvest. UM.

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Speaker 1: Back when we first started looking at this, well over

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Speaker 1: all the bucks killed were just one and a half

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Speaker 1: and today the number has dropped the lowest ever and

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Speaker 1: actually last year was the lowest ever and this year,

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Speaker 1: you know, we beat a record again. So it's a

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Speaker 1: very positive trend. You know, with was hunters passing deer.

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Speaker 1: Some agencies obviously have regulations that require hunters to pass

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Speaker 1: the majority of yearling bucks, but you know, above and

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Speaker 1: beyond that, there's just a lot of hunters that willingly

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Speaker 1: passed those one and a half year old deer. And

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Speaker 1: so I think it's a very positive sign for the

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Speaker 1: future of of hunting and and for deer management and

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Speaker 1: something that's directly related to education, you know, over the

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Speaker 1: past decade or so. So so I think that is

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Speaker 1: very good. UM And along with that, since we're protecting

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Speaker 1: more yearling bucks, that means we're moving bucks into more

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Speaker 1: older age classes, which is great for viewing, photographing, hunting, calling,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. And uh. In this past year, we also

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Speaker 1: set a record for the percentage of the national buck

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Speaker 1: harvest that was at least three and a half years old,

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Speaker 1: so you know, three and a half, four and a half,

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Speaker 1: five and a half year old bucks. You know, nearly

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Speaker 1: a third of all the bucks killed in the United

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Speaker 1: States last year or at least three and a half

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Speaker 1: years old, you know, and that it's just amazing to

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Speaker 1: think how far we've come in a very short period

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Speaker 1: of time, moving dear into some of these older age classes.

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Speaker 1: So hunters deserve a tremendous pat on the back, you know,

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Speaker 1: for that, and something that they should be very very

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Speaker 1: proud of. That's terrific. Now, is there anything you know

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Speaker 1: that's on the the optimistic side of things? There's some

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Speaker 1: those are some positive numbers, and that's exciting to see,

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Speaker 1: especially for someone you know like me who um is

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Speaker 1: excited about the principles of quality deer management and allowing

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Speaker 1: those bucks to get to an older age class and

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Speaker 1: how that changes the dynamics of the herd and the

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Speaker 1: experience of the hunt and everything on those lines. Um,

390
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Speaker 1: Is there anything on the other end of the spectrum

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Speaker 1: that is concerning that you're seeing over the you know,

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Speaker 1: given your research recently for the state of our herd, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there is, and you know this annual report that you

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Speaker 1: talked about. You know, we actually call you know, it's

395
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Speaker 1: kind of a state of the Union address for a

396
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Speaker 1: deer and we look at the biggest issues each year

397
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Speaker 1: and then talk about them in this and uh, we've

398
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Speaker 1: been doing this since two thousand and nine. You know,

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Speaker 1: in each year, there there's certainly some top issues, whether

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Speaker 1: it's a disease outbreak or a certain perspective that some

401
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Speaker 1: group has taken on deer that that impacts deer hunting.

402
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Speaker 1: And uh, but I can honestly say that the reports

403
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Speaker 1: that we're just finishing up right now, I think there's

404
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 1: more pressing issues in that um that we haven't dealt

405
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Speaker 1: with in the past than ever before, and in some

406
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,880
Speaker 1: huge issues that we're going to have to base going

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Speaker 1: forward as hunters and deer managers. And uh, two of

408
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Speaker 1: the biggest of that are declining deer herds in some

409
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Speaker 1: areas and uh, you know, for a long time we've

410
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Speaker 1: talked about just having way too many deer and they're

411
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Speaker 1: trying to reduce deer herds. And you know a lot

412
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Speaker 1: of people incorrectly equated QDM but just shooting all the doughs.

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Speaker 1: But you know, a quantity your manager and has always

414
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Speaker 1: been about shooting the appropriate number of those, you know,

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Speaker 1: to balance those deer herds with a habitat. And I

416
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Speaker 1: think that we're seeing some states now, you know, that

417
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Speaker 1: have been aggressively trying to reduce deer hurts, which is

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Speaker 1: a good thing. You know that maybe now have hit

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Speaker 1: that balance point, and uh, some that possibly have dipped

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Speaker 1: a little too far below that. Um. The thing is,

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00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, that's correctable. So well, that's a very positive thing.

422
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Speaker 1: But now we need to educate hunters again to say, okay,

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Speaker 1: you know, we cannot have a record harvest every year.

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Speaker 1: You know, as we reach our dear population goals, we're

425
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,719
Speaker 1: going to have lower harvest. But I think there are

426
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Speaker 1: some states out there that have such reductions in the

427
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Speaker 1: harvest that you know, probably have gone a little too

428
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Speaker 1: far and has a lot of hunters concerns and rightfully so.

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Speaker 1: And and you know what, there's that region is clearly

430
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 1: the Midwest at the epicenter of that um. One of

431
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,439
Speaker 1: the chapters in the white Tail Report we looked at

432
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: is the harvest data both bucks and analyst dear, you know,

433
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 1: and we look at that every year. How does this

434
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: compare to last year and two years ago? And what

435
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 1: is the age ructure of that. But we added a

436
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: chapter this year that looked at whereas and now versus

437
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 1: where what's it ten years ago? Kind of you know,

438
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 1: a decade look and now. What we're found is there

439
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: is a huge change from a decade ago in some states. Uh,

440
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: the Northeast is doing pretty well as it's very similar,

441
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: the Southeast is very similar as the region. There's certainly

442
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,959
Speaker 1: states within there that are up or down, but overall

443
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: those are pretty close to what the shot now versus

444
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: a decade ago. But the Midwest harvest in most places

445
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: have just fallen off the table. It is amazing what

446
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: some of those states have gone through and overall shooting

447
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: you know, almost fewer bucks today in the Midwest as

448
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: the decade ago, and uh drop are almost it's actually

449
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: an eighteen percent, but an eighteen percent drop is a

450
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: huge drop. Um wow. So anyway, there's there's a lot

451
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 1: of hunters concerned, and probably for good reasons. Um particularly

452
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: you can look at a couple of the states and

453
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: then you know in big deer hunting states where buck

454
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: harvests are down over um are almost you know that

455
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: that's a big deal, particularly when you look at the

456
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 1: analysts harvest in some of these states, it's down even

457
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: farther than the than the buck harvest. So that's there's

458
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 1: there's a lot of issues right now with your numbers

459
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 1: in the Midwest. And uh so this is not the

460
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: not the end of the story by any means. We're

461
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: gonna hear a lot about this in the coming months

462
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: and likely the next few years. Wow. So I've got

463
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: twofold questions that. Number one, you mentioned a couple of

464
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: states that are seeing declines closer. What are these What

465
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: are these couple of states that are the epicenter of

466
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: these largest changes? I guess it is my first question.

467
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: The Actually the state that it looked had the biggest

468
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: decline nationwide was Alabama fifty percent reduction. But two things

469
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: about that I'll qualify wanted it's obviously not in the Midwest,

470
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 1: but that state reduction was was more related to a

471
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: buck bag limit change than actual deer herd change. Back

472
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven oh seven h eight season,

473
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 1: they went from used to be in Alabama you could

474
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: choose a buck a day for the entire season, and

475
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: they limited that to three bucks for the whole season,

476
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 1: So that really changed. So saved a lot of bucks,

477
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: which is a very good thing. So that reduction is

478
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: actually a positive for for the deer hunting world, even

479
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: though it looks like the biggest decline. But as far

480
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: as the Midwest goes, there's the state that buck harvest

481
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: declined the most, uh, and you know was Prevorit shocker

482
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: is Iowa. Iowa's buck harvests dropped in the last decade,

483
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: so obviously a well known big buck state, you know,

484
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: a very popular deer hunting destination for anybody that can

485
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: get a tag and get in there. So, you know,

486
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: decline as a huge, huge deal. So so, Kip, I'm

487
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: not sure if you know, but Dan, my co host,

488
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 1: is an Iowa resident and hunter. So Dan, what what

489
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: are your what's your action to hearing that? What do

490
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: you think about that? Well, you know you said forty

491
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: three per center, right, Kip, that's correct over the past decade, now,

492
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: you know, And and me and Mark has a short

493
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: discussion about this before we we got you on and

494
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: and from my tree stand in my hunting properties, I

495
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: only get to see a very small um sampling of

496
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: what is out there. And and this year, um I

497
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: saw a smaller deer number and I even said, over

498
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: the past ten years, I saw a smaller deer number, um,

499
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: but I saw higher quality bucks. Now you said that

500
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: the Iowa buck harvest over the past decade is down

501
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: fort is what what kind of I guess from a

502
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: statistics standpoint, what are you taking into consideration to to

503
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: know that that number is down each year? For for

504
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: the White Tail Report, we do a state Walife agency survey.

505
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: So what we ask every single state walife agencies and

506
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: Deer project leader a series of questions and and and

507
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: on that survey as we asked a number of antlered

508
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: bucks that were killed UH that year or the year before,

509
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: as well as the number of analysts here. And then

510
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: we also ask age structure questions and all that. And

511
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: unfortunately Iowa DNR does not collect age structure data, so

512
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: they could never give us the percentage of the harvest

513
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: that was one and a half or two and a

514
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: half or three and a half and older. But but

515
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: they always give us the number of bucks and analysts

516
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: here that are taken the year before. So so those

517
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: harvest numbers are straight from the DNR data that that

518
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: we just keep on an annual basis. And then UH

519
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: used to compare and make these type of analyzes. So

520
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: from that, I guess there's several different things that could

521
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: you know, play in the role of that number. Are

522
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: are people passing? I know you mentioned this for Alabama,

523
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: but UM is your guys research showing that people are

524
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: passing more? Dear are are is there? I don't know

525
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: disease involved? Is there less number of hunters? I guess

526
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be Iowa's specifically, but for for

527
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: the overall buck buck harvest decline, where are you guys seeing?

528
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of things there. Disease has

529
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: certainly played into that. Two thousand and twelve was the

530
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: worst hemorrhagic disease outbreak on record UM and right before that,

531
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven was the previous record outbreak. So

532
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: disease certainly plays in. You know, we've had some really

533
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: bad winners recently. What does that have played in? UM?

534
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: You know in in Iowa as well, And if it

535
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: was just people passing there certain bucks or something you

536
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: know that may play something to that. But from the

537
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: analysts harvest side, Iowa's analysts harvest is down during that

538
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: same time period, so you know there's lots of talk

539
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: out of Iowa about hundreds just not seeing as many deer,

540
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: And then all part of this is, you know, as

541
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: the Ihiowa has been trying to reduce that deer. You

542
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: know ten years ago it was way above where it

543
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: should have been, so you know, there should come down.

544
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: And so I think, you know, that's the question then

545
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: becomes not such that you know, the sky is falling

546
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: here as it's okay, you know, have we come down

547
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: far and off? Are are we to the point now

548
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: where we need to stabilize this heard rather than continue

549
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: to reduce it. So but as far as wives come down,

550
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of factors. Diseases played in

551
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: the winners have played in obviously just hundred. Harvest is

552
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: played in, you know as as one of the goals

553
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: for hunters to shoot a bunch, so well that that

554
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: plays into that really as big as well. But but

555
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: I'll tell you I think a personal opinion is looking

556
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: at not just Iowa, but all of the Midwest. Um,

557
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest factors that has played

558
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: into you know, these huge reductions and endear hurts is

559
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: is habitat loss. If you take a look at the

560
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: amount of CRP land that the US has lost from

561
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven to two thousand and fourteen. It's

562
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: a huge decline. We've lost over nine million acres of

563
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: CRP in the US during that time period. That's that's

564
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: a full all the CRP land we had was lost

565
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: since two thousand and seven, and and well over half

566
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: of that it's directly from the Midwest. Midwest has lost

567
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: over five million acres. So if you look at a

568
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: region that you know that one of the most critical

569
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: habitat components anyway is cover, you know, and now you're

570
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: losing even more cover to go back into row crops um.

571
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: You know, that really does not play well for for

572
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: white tails at all. And so my professional opinion is

573
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: we're really starting to feel some of the effects they're oh,

574
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, the loss of this critical habitat that's directly

575
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: playing into the productivity of some of these deer hets.

576
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: So so, and I'm going to use iowa um number

577
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: that you said again. But because there is a decline

578
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: in the population of the herd, and there's also um

579
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: what people would consider less of a buck harvest, how

580
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: how does the q d m A then tell the public,

581
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: you know, don't worry about, you know, less buck harvest

582
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: because it's not necessarily a bad number. I'm not necessary.

583
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: I think Acutum is not saying that that's not don't

584
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: worry about it's not a bad number. I think that's

585
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: a huge number and something that they definitely should be

586
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: concerned about. You know, buck harvest has dropped five percent

587
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: or ten percent, Okay, you know that's well within the

588
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: limits of trying to reduce a deer herd. But you

589
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: drop a buck carvest over and a dough harvest over.

590
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: I think it's the red flags are flying like crazy

591
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: and sirens are going off. Hey, you know, something's going

592
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: on here. We really need to take a look at this.

593
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: Got you. Yeah, So a handful of different things that

594
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: you mentioned, kip Um, I would like to dive into further.

595
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: And again, this, this whole topic of deer populations is

596
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: something that's just you know, every dance social media people

597
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: are talking about, new articles are popping up in you know,

598
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,479
Speaker 1: different news media outlets across the country, and it's definitely

599
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: the topic that seems to be top of mind for

600
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Um So, you mentioned habitat losses

601
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: is a big possible issue, and that's something that a

602
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: lot of people seem to be glossing over. When I

603
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: hear a lot of people talking about this, they don't

604
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: tend to mention that is one of the issues that

605
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: they think is possibly affecting what's going on here. Um.

606
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: One of the largest typical um culprits that I hear

607
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: is the agencies are telling us to kill too many deer, right,

608
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: they've been issuing too many tags, or they're they're trying

609
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: to kill off all the deer because insurance companies want

610
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: them to do that, or whatever it might be. So

611
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: my question for you, Kip, is does that argument hold

612
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: any weight? Is there any truth to that? What are

613
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: your thoughts on the idea that you know, we can

614
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: be pointing the finger at somebody like that or the

615
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: agencies that they're just pushing too many, too many doughs

616
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: to be killed or too many deer to be killed. Well,

617
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: there's certainly more stakeholders involved today with agencies and in

618
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: the past, Um, you know, several decades ago, hunters or

619
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: mouth the only stakeholders at the table. And today we

620
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: have hunters, we certainly have the insurance agencies, we have farmers,

621
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: we have the anti hunters. We have homeowners associations. There's

622
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: just a lot more people to have the ear of

623
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: our d nrs today, you know, well to try to

624
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: get their agenda passed. Now, as far as the the

625
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: insurance companies driving you all these deer harvest um, you know,

626
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: I've been to literally hundreds and hundreds of public gear

627
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: meetings over the years, and state and federal level meetings,

628
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: and uh, I don't know if I've ever seen anybody

629
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: from the auto industry sitting at that table with them,

630
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: and you know, they're often talked about as being there,

631
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: but the reality of it is, you know, the insurance industries,

632
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: they're not losing money when we hit dear. You know,

633
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: our rates that we pay for all the insurance goes

634
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: up if you live in an area that has more

635
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: vehicle accidents. So I don't believe that that holds much

636
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: water at all. That's always talked about people say that,

637
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: but from my experience, I've just never seen it. Uh. Now,

638
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 1: the flip side of that, you know, how many how

639
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: much of this is being driven by hunter over harvest um.

640
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: You know, most states out there over the past decade

641
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: have been aggressively trying to reduce gears or at least

642
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: reduce them at some point during that decade. And uh

643
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: so that certainly plays into this um that's not that's

644
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: the fault of the D and R by any means.

645
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: You know, there was a time when guys, you almost

646
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: couldn't slow deer herds down, particularly in the productive Midwest.

647
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: You know, they were just cranking out so many fonds

648
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: and so many phons were surviving, and there's so much

649
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: food that man, you could sell everything you possibly could

650
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: at a deer herd, you know, and it would still grow.

651
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: But over the last few years, now, when you throw

652
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: that disease on it, you throw some bad winners on

653
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: it at the same time that you pull all the

654
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: habitat out from underneath the and you add more predators.

655
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: You know. I think it's just a mixture of all

656
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: of these factors hitting in a very short period of

657
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: time that suddenly changed the amount of harvest pressure we

658
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: could put on some of these deer herds. So, you know,

659
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: is it it's hunter harvest plane into this absolutely? You know.

660
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: I think there's many cases there places that we need

661
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: to reduce the amount of animals we are taking. But

662
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: I'm not placing the blame on the d NRS with

663
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: these I think it's just a new day or new

664
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: era in deer management, you know, where the rules have

665
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: changed a little bit, so we just need to adapt

666
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: to those. So on that, I guess right along those

667
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: lines of that point you made there, would you say it,

668
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: is it safe to say that for many hunters across

669
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: the country it's time to start adapting to a new normal. Absolutely,

670
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: or at least, um get a little more involved with

671
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: what is happening such that we can improve you know,

672
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: if you ever live, if you're hunting in a poor

673
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: situation right now. But but yes, I think it clearly

674
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: as a new normal with what's going on, especially as

675
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: with regard to uh the amount of antilist deer that

676
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,959
Speaker 1: we need to remove not to stabilize deer herds. So

677
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: on this topic, then let's it sounds like we need

678
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: to be more involved. We need to, you know, pay

679
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: more attention to what's happening in our localized herds. And

680
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: from everything I've gathered from talking different people out this

681
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: topic too, you know, it just seems like, um, more

682
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: of the responsibility is going to be shifting to the

683
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: hunter on the ground. Or the land manager to make

684
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: sure that we personally are managing our local deer herd

685
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: as best as possible given all these different factors now

686
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 1: that are coming into play that are localized in many cases.

687
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: So you know, for example, maybe e h D hit

688
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: really bad in my area. Well, now I need to

689
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: start making some decisions, decisions from management perspective about what's

690
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: the right thing for this herd. Um And you know,

691
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: the state Game Agency might not be able to tell

692
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: me what to do on my you know, local forty

693
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: here because they don't know that's going on. So my

694
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 1: question for you, Kip is and I think I think

695
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: I know some of the answers here, but I'm curious

696
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 1: to hear from your perspective, how can the average hunter

697
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: better understand on their in their local area what the

698
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: right number of deer to kill is or what the

699
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: right ratio of does to bucks should be. How can

700
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 1: they start making these decisions better? I think by collecting

701
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of of of data from you know,

702
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: the place that they either own or that they hunt on.

703
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: You know, we have a tremendous opportunity to do that

704
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: today with the trail cameras, you know, almost everybody has

705
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: trail cameras, so you can collect some information just on

706
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: you know, the number of dose that you're seeing, I'm

707
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: gonna sorry, the number of fonds you're seeing in regard

708
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: to the number of those, um to, the best ways

709
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: are to do trail camera run track cameras, but as well,

710
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: it's just observations for a base while you're hunting. Keep

711
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: tracking each day you go hunting and how many hours

712
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: you hunt and mark down a number of bucks and

713
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: does and fonds that you see, and uh, you know,

714
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 1: and compare that over time. You know, are you seeing

715
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 1: more bonds per dough this year than in the past.

716
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: You know, if that's the case, that's a very good thing,

717
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: you know. Um Conversely, if you're seeing few reponds per

718
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: doe year after year after year, that's the potential red

719
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: flag that hey, something's going on. You know, we're not

720
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: recruiting as many deers in the past, so that's the

721
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: first sign that, you know, what, we can't shoot as

722
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: many deer as we had in the past. So uh So,

723
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. The average hunter can take a much

724
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: more engaged role in what's going on, regardless of what

725
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: the bag limit is or the agencies, tell us we

726
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 1: can shoot, you know, we can tailor our current situations

727
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: out to the number of deer that we're going to shoot,

728
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: or allow others to shoot, you know, on our property,

729
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: or talk to those ones around us. So so that's

730
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: an absolutely perfect way four hunters to get involved in

731
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 1: Along those lines, they all should get involved with the

732
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 1: state wilife agency, you know, talk to their local biologists,

733
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: get involved with the d n R s because more

734
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: than ever, we need to be active and have open

735
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: lines of communication, you know, with the d n R

736
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,399
Speaker 1: to say, hey, here's what we're seeing, here's what's going on.

737
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: You know, tell us what you're seeing as well. Um.

738
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: One of the concerning things in doing Insuar's report, and

739
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: it's it's very disappointing, but it's one of the biggest

740
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: issues out there right now is that you know, we

741
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: asked wilife agencies, you know, to kind of rank the

742
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: top issues that they're dealing with or the impact deer management.

743
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: And you know, when we've asked similar things of hunters

744
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: and hunters say, right now, one of the biggest issues

745
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: out there are you know, there's just no deer, are

746
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: very few deer, you know, deer densities have really dropped.

747
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: And you ask that the Wilife ages that same question.

748
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: One of their top issues that they ranked was high

749
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: deer density, you know, too many deer. So when you

750
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: have you know, these two state keholders with completely different views,

751
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: you know, at polarized views of what is happening, that

752
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: doesn't make for for good uh, you know, solution to

753
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: these problems. So the only way to fix this is

754
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: to get the agencies and the hunters to sit down

755
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: and talk together to help each other, you know, share

756
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: views or see why they're coming from this um, because

757
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: otherwise you're just going to sit there, you know, and

758
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 1: knockheads and you know, we're not going to get anywhere.

759
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: And it does nobody any good for the agencies to

760
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: say there's more deer than we need. For the hunters

761
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: to say, you know, that's b s you. No, I'm

762
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: not seeing anything, and then you just lose credibility and

763
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: you lose that relationship. Then at all falls apart, and

764
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 1: then that certainly doesn't help anybody. Yeah, I mean this,

765
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: it blows my mind that that's you know, that's happening.

766
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: And you know a specific instance where I think this

767
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: is happening right now to a degree, and I'm curious

768
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,959
Speaker 1: about your perspective and if you've followed this at all,

769
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: is what's happening right now in Ohio. I don't know

770
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: if you've if you've seen some of the recent stories

771
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: coming out of here, but there's been a series of

772
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: meetings where some of the agency reps have been sitting

773
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: down hunters and hunters sharing their feedback and others. And

774
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: there seems to be a lot of contention here about

775
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: the agency's goals of the deer population and what hunters

776
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: think is the right goal to have there. Do you

777
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: have any insight into that specific situation. Yeah, I do,

778
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: and I've been found that very closely as well, because

779
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 1: you know, historically Ohio has had a very very successful

780
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: deer management program. UM. They have done a great job

781
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: with numbers of deer and age structure that deer heard. UM.

782
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: Obviously a very productive states, so the deer herd has

783
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: been growing, you know, over the last few decades, so

784
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: they have been trying to reduce something like many other states. UM.

785
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: One thing in Ohio was done differently than many of though,

786
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: is that they have the agency has always been out

787
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: in front with the hunters um like Talkovic, who is

788
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: their dear biologists, you know, is a very knowledgeable dear biologists.

789
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: But one of the things that makes them so successful,

790
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: let's he has always valued what the hunter said. You know,

791
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: it's always been out meeting with the public and meeting

792
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: with hunters and listening and sharing information. So because of that,

793
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: you know, they've always had pretty good hunter support or

794
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: what the agency has been trying to do, and they've

795
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: been very successful at implementing new programs and new strategies,

796
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: you know, to keep that successful. So here, over the

797
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: last couple of years, all of a sudden, you know,

798
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: they're killing fewer deer there too, and some hunters are

799
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: are upset, and you know, I understand that as hunters,

800
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: we tend to get upset when things aren't as good

801
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: as we feel they should be. Thought, what's been happening

802
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: here over the last two or three weeks has really

803
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: surprised me. You know, Mike has really come under attack

804
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: by some folks and uh, you know that that just

805
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: has not been that common in the past because of

806
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: the relationship the Ohio DNR has had with hunters, So

807
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: so that that's pretty strange that, right, now, and certainly

808
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: a strange situation for that d NR to be in interesting. So,

809
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: when one side of the table says there's too many

810
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: deer and the other side of the table says there's

811
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: not enough deer, are both sides of the table bringing

812
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: statistics that show you know, you know, hey there aren't

813
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: too many deer, or hey, there's not enough deer. Now.

814
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: Typically there's one side is bringing data and and the

815
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: other side is just bringing personal observations. Um. You know,

816
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: the agencies typically have data, harvest data, et cetera to

817
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,439
Speaker 1: to show what is going on. UM, hunters bring their

818
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: personal views of what they saw or didn't see and uh,

819
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,919
Speaker 1: and so you're not always comparing apples to apples. Now.

820
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: The one of the things that makes that conversation difficult

821
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: is that wildlife agencies are state agencies manage at you know,

822
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: a deer unit or a wildlife management unit level, you know,

823
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: whether it's a county or a group of counties or whatever. UM.

824
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: But as hunters, we don't hunt at the unit level.

825
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: You know, we hunt at the property level. So within

826
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: any given wildlife management unit, you have some deer herds

827
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: that are well above with the habitat can support others

828
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: that are well below it, and you know, some of

829
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: that are in balance with it. But so with any unit,

830
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: you know, you can find hunters that agree with what

831
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: the agency says. Unfortunately, you know, also within every unit,

832
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: you all still have hunters to say, you know, that

833
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: they're just mad as heck because there's more deer and

834
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 1: they're eating all their crops or their trees or their gardens.

835
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: And hunters that have very few deer where they're hunting,

836
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: so they're mad. So you know, that's the biggest discrepancy

837
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: there is just the unit where the size of the

838
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,479
Speaker 1: unit that you're talking about in regard to numbers of deer,

839
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: and you know, and as hunters we often forget that,

840
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: you know, when agencies cannot manage to the property level um.

841
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: But as agencies, we often forget the same you know,

842
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: that that hunters don't realize or at least agencies don't

843
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: do as good a job as they could, you know,

844
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: explaining to hunters, hey, here's what we're seeing at the

845
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: unit level. You know, we understand you may not be

846
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: seeing deer, and you know, we feel bad about that,

847
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: but let's at least try to understand, uh, what exactly

848
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: we're talking about so that we can have productive solutions.

849
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, unfortunately agencies can beat up a

850
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: bunch and I understand that. So we have too few

851
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: agencies members today that are very good at listening to

852
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: the hunters and really listening to them. I'm not talking

853
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: about just sitting there and letting the hunters say the piece,

854
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: but you know, really listening to what they're saying and

855
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: then try to have a productive conversation. And as hunters,

856
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 1: you know, we make it easy for them to tune

857
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: us out because there's a lot of hunters that just

858
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 1: whine and cry um when they're really not doing anything

859
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: on their own part to try to make the solution better. So,

860
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: you know, I think the way we need to fix

861
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,919
Speaker 1: it is to draw a line the same as they are. Right,

862
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: Let's just start all over here. Let's sit down together,

863
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, and recognize that we both want to have healthy,

864
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: productive deer herds, and let's work together to make that happen.

865
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: It definitely does seem like there's a serious communication just

866
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: issue across the board in love cases and when you

867
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: you know, you just laid out there what this great

868
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: scenario could be if we could sit down, start from

869
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: ground zero and start, you know, talking from both sides

870
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: and understanding each other. I'm curious, is that something that

871
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: can realistically happen or is that realistically happening anywhere? Have

872
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 1: you seen any really good examples of a state and

873
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: a hunter population has been able to develop that relationship it, Yeah,

874
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 1: I have seen it, and and actually I've seen numerous occasions. Uh,

875
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: you end up with states that really involved the public,

876
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,760
Speaker 1: and Ohio historically has been one of those. The Missouri

877
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 1: is one of those in the Midwest, and there are

878
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: others as well. You know, they bring hunters in to

879
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: be part of the stakeholder group um or deer management plans.

880
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: So yes, it's not uncommon. There are numerous states that

881
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: has done that, and h and has that has been

882
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: very successful. And the thing the hunters need to realize

883
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: that it's the perfect opportunity for us to go in

884
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: and be good partners, because the agencies certainly want us

885
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: to partner with them. You know, they really can't say this,

886
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: but you know, as much or more so than they

887
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: do the homeowners associations and the anti hunting groups and

888
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: all of those they have far more uncommon with hunters,

889
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: so they have a much better vested interest to sit

890
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: down and be good partners with us. So, you know,

891
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: so from the hunter end, it's the perfect time for

892
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: us to do that and to get engaged and uh,

893
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: and so anyway, it's a long way to answer your

894
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: question that yes, I absolutely have seen it work, and

895
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: I've seen it worked beautifully. Yeah. I think that's a

896
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: great point something I've seen to. Um. You know, as

897
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: I've been working closer with the National Deer Lines, I've

898
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: been you know, tracking all sorts of different news stories

899
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: related to deer across the country, and over and over again,

900
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: I am hearing about these different opportunities where the agencies

901
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: are sitting down with hunters for different meetings in Wisconsin

902
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,919
Speaker 1: or Ohio or Missouri or all these different places. And

903
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: what I'm disappointed by, and I guess this is this

904
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: is just how you know people are, but that participation

905
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: is actually really low. You know, there's there's thousands of

906
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: hunters who complain are upset about the situation in their state.

907
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: And then I see all these different examples where there

908
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: is a meeting held to talk to people about it,

909
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: and you know, only twenty people show up. Um, and

910
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: I wonder if there's you know, to your point, Kip,

911
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: there's an obligation to us, the hunters, to participate and

912
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,479
Speaker 1: to get engaged in these opportunities when they are there,

913
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 1: because hey, if if they're putting out there and we're

914
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: not engaging, well then we can only blame ourselves to

915
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: a degree for not taking advantage of the opportunity. Now

916
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: that's right. And uh, and you hit the nailor on

917
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: the head, you know, as when hunters, when things are good,

918
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: we tend to be complacent, you know, and not go

919
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: to meetings or not to get engaged with those things.

920
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, you know, there's a lot of public

921
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: meetings and lots of public input opportunities that go by

922
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: the wayside. And it was very little public public input. Um. Now.

923
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: One of the things that we looked at this in

924
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: last year's wait until report wasn't were at the agencies

925
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: how they engage the public. And uh, you know, all

926
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: of them did public meetings and they took them other ways,

927
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: you know, but but very few states you know, engage

928
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: the public through social media, you know, and through some

929
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: other and more popular and more I guess the timely

930
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: way used to do that you know, and particularly for

931
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: youth hunters and or at least new hunters that are

932
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: very tech savvy, you know, that's how they get information today,

933
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: That's how they want to be engaged, and that's why

934
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: ACT may we provide information in those manners? You know,

935
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: I think the agencies would serve themselves well to also

936
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: take advantage of some more of those means to engage

937
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 1: the public. You know, I think that you would get

938
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: better engagement at least I would hope that you would.

939
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: And uh, but from the hunter side, they absolutely need

940
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: to take opportunities to get engaged rather than just complaint. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

941
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: I'd like to shift now to another one of the

942
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,439
Speaker 1: challenges UM. Again, there's a kind of a few hot

943
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: topics that I think a lot of people are talking about.

944
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: We've talked about, you know, possible over harvest or agency

945
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: issues or anything like that. That's when a lot of

946
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: people talk about UM. Another issue, as you mentioned briefly earlier,

947
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: is disease. Especially back in two thousand seven and two

948
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,399
Speaker 1: thousand twelve we had the very large outbreaks of h D.

949
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: Can you talk to me a little bit, Kip about

950
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: you know, what's the do we have any idea is

951
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 1: that something that's going to continue to be an issue? Um,

952
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: is there any reason to be continually concerned about diseases

953
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: like HD or c W D. Um, you know what's

954
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: your thoughts and how that's going to be affecting white

955
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,439
Speaker 1: tails moving forward? Well, well, hymerratic disease is the most

956
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: common disease of white tail deer and you know, somewhere

957
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 1: in the US and breaks out are beer and dear impacted. Um,

958
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: the share was very easy. Virginia is one of the

959
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: only states that had any hemorrhages of east mortality this year.

960
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,280
Speaker 1: But but that is going to continue. You know, there's

961
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: nothing that we can do about that. It's carried by insects.

962
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's worse than hot, dry years, but that's

963
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 1: always going to occur. And uh, it's occurring more, um,

964
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: more northerly than in the past. You know, it used

965
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: to be just the southern deer disease and UM, and

966
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: I bavidly remember even when I was in college, you know,

967
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: in the late eighties, which wasn't all that long ago. UM,

968
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 1: you know that was specifically talked about as a southern

969
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: deer disease, you know, and just just didn't occur in

970
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: the North. They're almost as ever, and but that's not

971
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: the case today. You know, it occurs you know, all

972
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: the way to Canada today and across the US, and

973
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: there are more strains and you know, in different strains,

974
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: and so yeah, so hemorrhagic disease is likely to going

975
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 1: to continue to increase. UM it's its effects in the future. UM,

976
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: whether it's related to climate change or whatever, I don't know,

977
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: but it's certainly expanded than this range um during the

978
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 1: past decade. So yes, that will continue to be an issue. UM.

979
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: The thing is, it's natural. It occurs all deer they

980
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: get it, don't necessarily die from it, so uh, you know,

981
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: and then they can pass some of that immunity on

982
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: to their offspring to help protect them from it. So

983
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: so you know, it's not a deal breaker by any means,

984
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: but it's something we will continue to deal with, UM

985
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: C w D. We definitely will continue to deal with

986
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: that because there's no way to to decontaminate a site

987
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: once it has the disease of the preon um that

988
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: dis these continues to spread into new states, into new

989
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: areas within states, you know, throughout deer herbs um. You know,

990
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 1: there's there's so much research going on about CWD right now,

991
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: but there's you know, there's way more that we don't

992
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: know about it than what we do, So that is

993
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: going to continue to be a huge issue, mostly because

994
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: every time a deer get that, they die. You know,

995
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: there's there's no cure, there's no vaccine. That's fatal. So

996
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: unfortunately with dear, you know, they can carry the disease

997
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: for several years in some cases without showing any signs

998
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: of it, but simultaneously spreading or shedding. I'm sorry, there's

999
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: the preons that other deer can come in contact with

1000
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: nning contracted disease. So uh, you know, we will I

1001
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: think we're only at the tip of the iceberg. Was

1002
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 1: what's going to happen with c w D, And you know,

1003
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,959
Speaker 1: unfortunately hunters are being impacted, you know, across the white

1004
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: tails range. Now with that loss of privileges in areas

1005
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: that have c w D, lose the ability to to

1006
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: either bait or feed, or use minerals, debated camera surveys.

1007
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: You know, longer seasons. Deer season essentially as you know

1008
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 1: it is over, you know, because in most cases they

1009
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: try to dramatically reduce those deer herbs, sharp shooting programs,

1010
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: all kinds of other stuff you know that the negatively

1011
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: impact hunters. So there's there's gonna be a lot of

1012
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 1: new challenges the hunters are gonna have to deal with. Um,

1013
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: if you live in an area that has that disease. Yeah,

1014
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: it's a It's a scary thing when when you see

1015
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,919
Speaker 1: these stories pop up, seems like once every week or two,

1016
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: another couple of deer found with c w D in

1017
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: this state or that state, And it just seems like

1018
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: slowly that continues to slowly snowball. And UM, like you said,

1019
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 1: I think we're still at that tip of the iceberg.

1020
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: But if ever we reach a tipping point, that's something

1021
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 1: that's that's pretty concerning. Absolutely, So keeping the good times rolling.

1022
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: Then how about how about predators? K How much of

1023
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: an issue do you believe the predator you know, the

1024
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: increase in predation across many states is Um, how big

1025
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 1: of an issue is that? And who are the culprits there?

1026
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: If there is a big issue, it certainly is a

1027
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: big issue, you know. And I will say this, so

1028
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: this kind of goes back to something we talked about

1029
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: earlier where the state agencies and the hunters are. On

1030
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: this hunters view, predation is a huge issue. UH. State

1031
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: agencies ranked very low as an issue would impact in

1032
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: their manager which really surprised me given all of the

1033
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: current research out there right now shown the negative impacts

1034
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 1: that the predators are having on fond survival UM. A

1035
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: personal opinion is that the predators are natural part environment.

1036
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: We're lucky to have them. It's good that we have them.

1037
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 1: But at the same time, they need to be managed,

1038
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: just like deer or anything else. And you know, in

1039
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: areas where we have too many, they should be you

1040
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 1: know reduced UM. Whether that's through you know, additional hunting

1041
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: seasons or additional trapping seasons or whatever. You know, it's

1042
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: just it's just part of the whole thing. And I

1043
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: think any wildlife management, you know, the key to being

1044
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: successful as to keep whether it's deer or bear or

1045
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: coyote or bob kat or whatever it is, these populations,

1046
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: you know, in line with what the habitat UH can support.

1047
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: So I think that we're in an area today where

1048
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: we're seeing expanding part of the populations UM, particularly coyotes

1049
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: in the southeast, where they haven't been for all that long, um,

1050
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: Dore haven't reacted to it yet, and there's lots of

1051
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 1: research showing your other counties are absolutely powder and fallen

1052
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: to the point you know where we have extremely low

1053
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: fond recruitmer rates, extremely extremely though. Um. We have lots

1054
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: of northern deer herds you know that have dealt with

1055
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: counties for a long time. Um, But we have some

1056
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 1: northern herds now that are dealing with expanding populations and

1057
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: bears and anyone, bears are very good at eating falls

1058
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: in the spring. We have some rowland deer herds dealing

1059
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: with rolls, and obviously wolves are very good at a

1060
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 1: killing deer. So as hunters, I think this is just

1061
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: part of the new normal where hey, we have something

1062
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: else after that's removing some of our deer. So the

1063
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: number of analysts that we need to take during the

1064
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: hunting season needs to be left to accommodate for some

1065
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: of this, sir. But at the same time, you though

1066
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: there is where predators are more than they should be

1067
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: or are too high, you know, I think it's our

1068
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: duty to to reduce some of those to acceptable levels

1069
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 1: so that you have healthy predator populations as well. As

1070
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 1: heavy or healthy prey population. So I think we just

1071
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 1: need to find that balance. Yeah, when it comes you

1072
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: use the word balance, and I can't help but to

1073
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: think that humans have gotten in the way of nature. So,

1074
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, correct me if I'm wrong, because that's I'm

1075
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: good it, you know, jumping to conclusions. But Iowa introduced

1076
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: deer to the state from Michigan, I believe, like in

1077
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: the seventies or eighties, is that correct. I'm not sure

1078
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 1: what when they did. The most states restocked deer from

1079
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: from some other state, you know, during the n I

1080
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: don't know the exact dates that Iowa did or specifically

1081
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: where they came from, but but it's it's safe to

1082
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: say that they did bring some in from somewhere, got

1083
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 1: you so. So so now what we've done is we've

1084
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 1: brought in something that may or may not have been

1085
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: to the area a long time ago. I think the

1086
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 1: key point with reintroduced. Reintroduced deer have been across almost

1087
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: the entire North American content for thousands of years, but

1088
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: we just decimated them at one point to the point

1089
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: where we had to reintroduce. Right, So, how how much

1090
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: is whether or not we we brought it to an

1091
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: extinction level way back in the day, and then reintroduce

1092
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: these animals into this habitat um that may have not

1093
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: been the same that they were living in previously, and

1094
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,280
Speaker 1: then now we're seeing an effect all the way until

1095
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:19,399
Speaker 1: today that that is almost impossible to find a balancing act.

1096
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 1: Now I think that that we definitely can find a

1097
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 1: balance an act. They don't think it really matters. You know,

1098
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: where deer would have been brought there. You could bring

1099
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: deer from Texas there or Florida, put them in that environment. Uh,

1100
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, in a pretty short period of time, they

1101
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: would do very well. Um, you know if given the

1102
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: habitat that they need, you know, you certainly have the

1103
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 1: food available through most of the year, so you know,

1104
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,360
Speaker 1: give them cover, give them the habitat, you know, and

1105
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 1: they'll do well. They'll thrive in that. So you know,

1106
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 1: and you know, Iowa had some of the most productive

1107
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,839
Speaker 1: habitat you know, on the face of the planet, and

1108
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: that's why I had, you know, a way too many

1109
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,359
Speaker 1: deer for so many years. So you know, I think

1110
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: the balance there is just a matter of Okay, we're

1111
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 1: trying to reduce deer hers. They're doing that, and they

1112
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 1: were doing that at a rate that was working extremely

1113
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: well with all of the model data that the DNR had,

1114
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,359
Speaker 1: until you throw in all of these other factors such

1115
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 1: as this huge loss of habitat, predators, disease, et cetera.

1116
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: So it just changes the model. So it takes a

1117
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 1: little bit of time to recalibrate it. And I just

1118
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: think we're just in that recalibration mode right now, where

1119
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: you know, the DNR will certainly get it right. They

1120
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: had some very small people there and some extremely talented

1121
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: dear biologists, you know, so they know how to do

1122
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: it's just a matter of using the most current data

1123
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: to do it. So so you know, I don't think

1124
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: I was dead in the water by any means. It's just,

1125
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: you know, things are a little different there now than

1126
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: they've been lately. Um, they certainly will get it right.

1127
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: And but seeing things like this where how far the

1128
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: harvest has dropped, you know, and listening to hunters, you know,

1129
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: that's just all part of the process. Okay, now we'll

1130
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 1: back off on rantlerst harvest. We'll solve this issue. We'll

1131
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: get you know, do what we can to to put

1132
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:55,919
Speaker 1: some habitat back out there, and the man, I will

1133
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: will be rocking again. I'm completely confident. So with with

1134
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: the data that you're collecting in historical data, are are

1135
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: we seeing trends that could potentially help us prepare for

1136
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: the future. Oh? Absolutely absolutely, and particularly given that you know,

1137
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 1: it wasn't that long ago where we didn't think we

1138
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: could slow deer herds down. Now we've clearly shown hey

1139
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 1: we can you know, we know how to do this

1140
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: now or what it takes to get in front of

1141
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: those growth curves. So oh yeah, So this day is

1142
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: all very important for you know, average hunter, to the

1143
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: average landowner right up to the natural resource professionals who

1144
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: can use it within their state uh to uh to

1145
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: do you know there to be successful at reaching their goals.

1146
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: That's good. So we've talked to your about a lot

1147
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: of issues of concern, you know, habitat loss, disease, predation,

1148
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: possible over harvest. Um, there's plenty of things to be

1149
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, potentially wary of and concerned about. We've touched

1150
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 1: on a handful of different adjustments that maybe we as

1151
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: hunters can make, or agencies can make, or someone else.

1152
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: I'm curious if you know, again we're looking at the

1153
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: thirty ft overview here. If you had to look at

1154
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: the overall state of white tails and the concerns facing them,

1155
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 1: and then choose two or three actionable next steps, like

1156
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: two or three potential solutions, what do you think those

1157
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: top steps should be from your perspective, I think, by

1158
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: far the top step is engagement of hunters by our

1159
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,919
Speaker 1: state wildlife agencies. I'm getting our hunters and our state

1160
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: folks to sit down together to to get on the

1161
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: same page and to share information. I think we can

1162
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 1: solve any issue with the solid partnerships there. And conversely,

1163
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: I think we will fail miserably that everything we try

1164
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 1: to do if we don't work together. So I think

1165
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 1: that is by far the biggest thing that we need

1166
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: to do, and the beauty of it is that it's

1167
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: entirely accomplishable. Absolutely definitely today, especially with new social media

1168
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: in different ways to open those community communication lines even

1169
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: easier than before. Absolutely. Now here's the Here's the big one. Money.

1170
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 1: So reduced hunters means hunting companies aren't making money. UM

1171
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: Iowa has seen a decrease in UM over a ten

1172
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: year period in the state budget for d n R officers. UM.

1173
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: The influence some of these organizations have towards the you know,

1174
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: like you mentioned the non hunters, u the hunters, the

1175
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: agencies and whatnot. How much does money influence some of

1176
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: these decisions. Money is a huge driver of it, mostly

1177
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 1: because the vast majority of the states don't get any

1178
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: general fund money, which means that mostly well, if agencies

1179
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: are funded entirely by licensed revenues, you know, a hundred dollars,

1180
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: and then those are matched by pr funds you know,

1181
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 1: from the federal government on next sized tax for or

1182
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 1: hunting that stuff. So that's why we say, you know,

1183
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: the hunters drive the system, and they pay for all

1184
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: of our wildlife management programs, you know, all of the

1185
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: game species, all the non game species management. You know,

1186
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: that's almost all on the backs of game wildlife and

1187
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: you know the facts majority that comes right from the

1188
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: backs of deer. So so money plays a huge role

1189
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 1: in that. And as you get fewer hunters, that's fewer

1190
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: licensed dollars, which means there's less money for wildlife agency budgets.

1191
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: And that's also why things like CWD that take money

1192
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: away from good programs like hunter access programs or or

1193
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 1: buying land or research and funnels it into CWD surveillance

1194
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: and CWD monitoring that kills us as hunters. You know,

1195
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: we're starting with a small pool of money anyway and

1196
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: then taking it and putting it. You know, it's not

1197
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: unnecessarily because you have to monitor the disease, but it's

1198
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 1: just unfortunate that it has to be funneled into those areas.

1199
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: So so you have so money drives you know, all

1200
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: of this, and uh, you know, I don't think that

1201
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 1: you see have agencies out there making decisions specifically to

1202
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: increase money. You know, hey, let's sell more nonresident licenses,

1203
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 1: or let's sell more of this or that, you know,

1204
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: at the expense of the resource. Um. You know, I

1205
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: do not believe that's happening, or at least not happening

1206
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 1: at a very high level, you know, because those states

1207
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 1: are accountable for those, um but not they've never happened.

1208
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: But I don't think that's maybe the exception way more

1209
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 1: than the rule. So, but money certainly plays in, you know,

1210
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: to their line of thinking with a lot of stuff,

1211
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 1: because it has to. You know, they're not a business

1212
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: like you know we see on the street. And it's

1213
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: a good thing because most state wilife agencies would would

1214
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: be out of business very quickly if they had to run,

1215
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 1: you know, or operate like business. But the at least

1216
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 1: need to, you know, to use some of those principles.

1217
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 1: So so it's certainly money factors into that into the discussion,

1218
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: but it's not the driving factor in most cases. Interesting

1219
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 1: that makes makes all the sense in the world. So

1220
01:01:58,160 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 1: I do want to start wrapping this up here. We

1221
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 1: talked about a lot of different challenges. We've talked a

1222
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 1: lot about, you know, where things are now in comparison

1223
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 1: to where they were maybe ten years ago, and keep

1224
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: you know, as you know, I've been involved in this discussion, UM,

1225
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: and a part of this. But I'm curious, from your perspective, UM,

1226
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: can you tell us a little bit about the National

1227
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: Deer Alliance. I've talked about it a bit here already,

1228
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: but this was formed, you know, this past summer in

1229
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 1: response to a lot of these issues we've been talking

1230
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: about today. From your perspective, can you tell us and

1231
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: the listeners a little bit about, you know, how you

1232
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 1: think the National Deer Alliance is going to be working

1233
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: to address some of these things, and why is the

1234
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: n d A, you know, why has it been created. Absolutely,

1235
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: I am very optimistic about that. I think that's one

1236
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 1: of the bright spots on the horizon for deer hunters,

1237
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: mostly because you know, this has the opportunity to be

1238
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: the largest group of deer hunting advocates ever assembled, you know,

1239
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 1: black bar and then you know, in a world where

1240
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: science means less to wildlife management today than there as

1241
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 1: at any point during my career, because politics plays a

1242
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: far bigger role, deer hunters and state walife agencies more

1243
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: than ever need a strong advocate. UH and NBA can

1244
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 1: fill that. That's exactly what it's created to be. You know,

1245
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 1: less than one percent of hunters in the United States

1246
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: belonged to a national deer organization, less than one percent,

1247
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 1: you know, and partly because deer have just been so

1248
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: plentiful for so long, we've just taken for granted. You know,

1249
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: we haven't, we haven't combined our efforts to protect them.

1250
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 1: You know, you can take a look at turkey hunters

1251
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: or pheasan hunters, or duck hunters or elk hunters and

1252
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: anywhere between. You know, eight and of them belong to

1253
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 1: an organization. But last and one percent of deer hunters

1254
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: do well. The NBA is going to change that. You know,

1255
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: it's where you can put eight or more deer hunters together.

1256
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: If we do that, that would be well over a

1257
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: million deer hunters, and where I have an opportunity to

1258
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 1: get quick information to folks on advocacy issues like hey,

1259
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: we're trying to you know, lose Sunday hunting in your state,

1260
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 1: or they're trying to remove with this opportunity for hunters

1261
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: or hunters you know, rights are being infringed upon here.

1262
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: You know, think about how big of an impact we

1263
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: could have if we could get information in these hunters

1264
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: hands and very quickly, but said they could lead their

1265
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 1: state agencies or legislators know, hey I disagree with this,

1266
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: or conversely, hey I support this. So there has never

1267
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: been a movement for deer hunters like this in the past.

1268
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: So this is a very very positive thing. The fact

1269
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 1: that it's free to deer hunters, you know, it doesn't

1270
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 1: cost you anything to sign up, it's just a bonus,

1271
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: makes it that much easier. So a lot of these

1272
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: issues that we talked about where agencies aren't listening to hunters,

1273
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 1: or agencies are having to fight with politicians for bad

1274
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 1: wildlife laws are trying to put in place. You know,

1275
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 1: as hunters, we can solve almost all of this, and

1276
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 1: I think the NDA is the perfect vehicle to make

1277
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: that happen. Yeah. Uh, I would second everything you said there,

1278
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: and I'm really excited about what's happening there And and

1279
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: like you said, there's there's a lot of opportunity to

1280
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: to service a need that's really out there, specially given

1281
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: these things that are affecting deer and deer hunters across

1282
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 1: the country to day um. So you know, it's one

1283
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: of those things that you know, the National Deer Alliances

1284
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 1: is getting its feet underneath it. But I think there's

1285
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: some really exciting things to come in the future and

1286
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: I'm excited to personally to be involved in that, and

1287
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 1: I'm glad that people like you are helping out to

1288
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: kip Um. And speaking of exciting things to come, the

1289
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: North American Deer Summit is coming this spring, and that's

1290
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 1: something we haven't talked about here yet on the podcast,

1291
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: but I know some details are starting to emerge about

1292
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: that and you've been involved. Can you tell us a

1293
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: little bit about what the North American Deer Summit is

1294
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 1: and why people might want to you know, get involved

1295
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: with that. Sure. This past year, two thousand and fourteen,

1296
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,959
Speaker 1: was the inaugural Dear Summit, and it's the first time

1297
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: that the deer stakeholders from a whole bunch of different

1298
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 1: groups sat down together. There was lots of times with

1299
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 1: state agencies me or hunters me or trade shows me,

1300
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 1: but there had never been a meeting where folks from

1301
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 1: all of these had sat down to really address these

1302
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: issues of deer hunting. So that was a very successful meeting.

1303
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 1: And what came out of that was the need to

1304
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: create an umbrella organization that could speak on behalf of

1305
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: all deer hunters, hence the National Deer Line. That's where

1306
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 1: that came from. So then they said, okay, this is

1307
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: great and they said, all right now. One of the

1308
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: things we did at that meeting was deterred identified the

1309
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 1: top ten issues impacting deer hunting to management. So we

1310
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 1: have those. But when we got down, attendee said, hey,

1311
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: we need another summit next year, which is the one

1312
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 1: that this year in two thousand and fifteen, you know,

1313
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 1: to address these issues. Say okay, let's get some specific

1314
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 1: action items. So that's really what this year's summit is about.

1315
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 1: So may six of the eighth in Louisville, Kentucky. We

1316
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 1: were going to be sitting down again with people from

1317
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 1: all these different stakeholder groups. And the cool thing about

1318
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: this year market that it's open to the public. Last

1319
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: year it was a very restricted attendee list because of

1320
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 1: the size of the facility we're at. We don't have

1321
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: those confinements this year, so anybody can come. They still

1322
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 1: will be divided into one of six or seven different

1323
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 1: stakeholder groups, and it's very interactive. They get to vote

1324
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 1: on what's happening, and what we're gonna do is we're

1325
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: gonna give them, hey, here the tenant shoes from last

1326
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: year that we identified as the biggest ones. Pick four

1327
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 1: of these that you want the NDA to specifically address

1328
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 1: first and move forward with coming up with specific action

1329
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: items that they can do to a head address them

1330
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 1: and to help solve them. So there's gonna be some

1331
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 1: prepared talks on some of the big issues that are

1332
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: going on, But a lot of this summit is interactive

1333
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: where you're not just gonna go and sit and kind

1334
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: of listen. You will be involved in the future of

1335
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: deer hunting. The management. You know, there's never been an

1336
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 1: opportunity for hunters to be more empowered on what's going

1337
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: to happen in the summer or the spring. So it's

1338
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 1: a great opportunity for folks to go have their say

1339
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: and you know, and have a big impact on what

1340
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:41,479
Speaker 1: they get to hunt during the rest of their life,

1341
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 1: as well as what the kids get to hunt. So

1342
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 1: it's pretty exciting. Yeah, I'm I'm very excited about that too.

1343
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 1: And you know, I think to your point earlier about

1344
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 1: you know the fact that we need to be taking

1345
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 1: advantage of these opportunities to engage when you know, the

1346
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 1: agency or the whatever it might be as asking for

1347
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: feedback from hunters, Well, here is a using opportunity for

1348
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: hunters to get involved, to have their voices heard, to

1349
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 1: to interact with people, like you said, from all these

1350
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 1: different stakeholders. I mean, how often does you know, how

1351
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 1: often what I get the chance that an average deer

1352
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: hunter sit down and talk to a biologist or someone

1353
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 1: in the industry or a media representative or you know,

1354
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 1: someone from an advocacy or conservation group and hear all

1355
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: the different perspectives on you know, what's what are the

1356
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 1: solutions for some of these issues or what are the

1357
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: problems or what are the things we need to be

1358
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: moving forward on. I think it's going to be really

1359
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:29,320
Speaker 1: interesting to hear all these different things, to interact with

1360
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:31,600
Speaker 1: all these different people, and like you said, to have

1361
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 1: a real, um, you know, a real stake in what

1362
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 1: happens moving forward. So I will be sure to get um,

1363
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, information in the show notes for anyone listening.

1364
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 1: If you want more information about the North American Deer Summit,

1365
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 1: go to wired hunt dot com slash episode forty one

1366
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 1: and you'll they'll have a link there that can drive

1367
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 1: you to a website with all the details about the summer,

1368
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 1: how to register, UM, what else to look forward to? UM,

1369
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 1: I think there's some really neat things that are that

1370
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 1: are gonna be going on there that are directly relevant

1371
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: to the conversation we've been having here today. So that said, Kip,

1372
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 1: we are we are coming up on time, and we've

1373
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 1: taken a lot of time out of your day. So

1374
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: I want to to thank you for spending this last

1375
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: hour with us discussing white tails. Absolutely, it was it

1376
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 1: was good talking with you. And I'll tell your listeners too,

1377
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 1: if any of them are interested in the white tail

1378
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:22,560
Speaker 1: report that we discussed about this time. It's gonna be

1379
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 1: available on our website next week, so it'll be there.

1380
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 1: It's free to take. Anybody can go and grab it

1381
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,559
Speaker 1: and take a look at how their state compares to

1382
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 1: others and see what these big issues are and what

1383
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: folks are doing to address them. Absolutely, I think it's

1384
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 1: it's a really tremendous resource you guys have been putting

1385
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:40,679
Speaker 1: out there. And like you mentioned, it's a free download.

1386
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: You can download a pdf right right right now, really easily,

1387
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 1: and I will make sure to include that link as

1388
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,680
Speaker 1: well in the show notes. And just severyone knows the

1389
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 1: past white Tail reports are available to download two and so,

1390
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, Kip, I think there's been five or

1391
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,839
Speaker 1: five of them maybe now. We started in two thousand

1392
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: and nine, so we got yeah, I hit, it doesn't

1393
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 1: seem like that's gone that quickly, but yeah, we've got

1394
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: quite a few of them there now. And each year,

1395
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 1: you know, it's different issues that are leading uh the

1396
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 1: need to charge, so folks can take a look at

1397
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: what was the biggest thing in oh nine and then

1398
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 1: ten and in each year. So if you're a dear not,

1399
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna like those reports. I promise you. Yeah, yeah,

1400
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 1: I can concur I've based on my experience digging into

1401
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: those there's it's just it's a tremendous resource, tons of information,

1402
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 1: tons of you know, not just trends and data, but

1403
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: then you know, you guys to provide some really great

1404
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: resources and um stories and articles related to different research

1405
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 1: or different studies and even hunting advice and whole bunch

1406
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 1: of different things. I've really enjoyed them. So I definitely

1407
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 1: recommend everyone listening to check out the past issues and

1408
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 1: then definitely next week when the two thou fifteen report

1409
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: comes out, check that out for sure. So I think

1410
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 1: that's gonna be at first Kip, thank you so much.

1411
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:52,519
Speaker 1: All right, great talking to you guys though, have a

1412
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 1: good day you too, kid. All right, well, there you

1413
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 1: have it. Things are definitely getting interesting these days in

1414
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: the white tail world. But remember you can get involved

1415
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 1: and help promote positive change. And I encourage you to

1416
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: get involved organizations like the National Deer Lines, the QT

1417
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 1: may or white Tails Unlimited and find ways that you

1418
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 1: can help the cause. And as we discussed, definitely look

1419
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: into the North American Deer Summit too. Now for show

1420
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 1: notes and links to all the different resources and organizations

1421
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 1: we've discussed. Visit Wired to Hunt dot com slash episode

1422
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 1: forty one, and if you haven't done so already, make

1423
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: sure you subscribe to the wire Hunt podcast on iTunes,

1424
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 1: the Apple podcast app, or the Stitcher app if you

1425
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 1: use Android, so you'll get all the future episodes downloaded

1426
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 1: right to your phone or tablet. Also, if you've enjoyed

1427
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:44,560
Speaker 1: the show, i'd encourage you to leave a rating or

1428
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 1: review on iTunes. It's a huge help, so thank you

1429
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:50,559
Speaker 1: for doing that. And speaking of thank you, we also

1430
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 1: like to thank our partners who helped make this show possible.

1431
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:56,639
Speaker 1: Big thanks to Sick of Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery,

1432
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:01,639
Speaker 1: Red Knife Blinds, Carbon Express Arrows, Hunts, Lacrosse Boots, Big

1433
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 1: and J Longrange Attractants, and the White Tail Institute of

1434
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 1: North America. And finally, thanks to you for joining us today.

1435
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 1: With all of us hunters working together to protect and

1436
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 1: promote deer and deer hunting, I'm excited to see the

1437
01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 1: great things we can accomplish in two thousand and fifteen,

1438
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 1: So get involved, let your voice be heard, and stay

1439
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 1: Wired to Hunt.