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Speaker 1: Last time on ear witness.

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Speaker 2: We knew the reward was offered because it was all

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Speaker 2: over the papers, but we didn't know who got it

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Speaker 2: or if I let Ellison got it.

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Speaker 3: She was a very credible witness. We believed her. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: we believed her because we convicted him, and it was

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Speaker 3: on her testimony.

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Speaker 1: When I showed up at her house, she said I

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Speaker 1: didn't get a reward.

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Speaker 4: I was like, oh, well, that's funny.

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Speaker 5: I was like, well, I have some paperwork here that

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Speaker 5: says you got a reward.

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Speaker 2: We got an email that said we found these documents,

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Speaker 2: they had been misfiled, and here they are.

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Speaker 1: Does that sound strange to you or do you have

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Speaker 1: any idea how that could have happened?

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Speaker 6: AG's office just they said he got misfiled. Then I

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Speaker 6: guess it got misfiled error.

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Speaker 3: I guess, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that your impression of her would have

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Speaker 1: been different had you known she was being paid five

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: I definitely believe we would have as a jury talked

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Speaker 3: about that, like, how credible is this testimony?

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Speaker 7: She's being paid for it?

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Speaker 5: Like I had never been in trouble a day in

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Speaker 5: my life ever before the end. I'm going to jail

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Speaker 5: and I've never been to jail to day in my

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Speaker 5: life ever, ever, ever, never had got any trouble anything.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the couch in a tiny one bedroom

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Speaker 1: apartment in Birmingham. It's warm outside. The door is open

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Speaker 1: to let in a breeze. I'm talking with Marika Wilson,

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Speaker 1: who's telling me and my producer Mara about a defining

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Speaker 1: experience of her life being charged with attempted murder in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven when she was twenty years old, a

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Speaker 1: crime she did not commit. The crime happened late at

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Speaker 1: night when one woman and two men tried to rob

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Speaker 1: a man in Birmingham. They broke into his house and

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Speaker 1: shot him. He almost died. Marika was accused of being

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Speaker 1: the woman who participated in the crime, but she says

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Speaker 1: she wasn't there. It was someone else.

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Speaker 5: Albu and tatno plead. They offered me twenty two years

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Speaker 5: of my life for something that I didn't even do,

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Speaker 5: and I said no. I fought to the bitter end.

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Speaker 1: A jury found Marika not guilty, but the ordeal left

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Speaker 1: life long scars.

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Speaker 5: It has still just bothered me all these years about

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Speaker 5: what I went through. You know what I'm saying. Every

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Speaker 5: time I applied for a job, even though I was

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Speaker 5: a quitty, I couldn't get a job, a decent job

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Speaker 5: to take care of my kids. I lost my place.

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Speaker 5: I didn't have a shirt to put on my back.

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Speaker 5: Then I lost custody of my kids behind that. I

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Speaker 5: was up against our type of odds in that situation,

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Speaker 5: something that I didn't even do. But she, she did.

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Speaker 5: Not that woman stick it up there and say she's

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Speaker 5: seen me.

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Speaker 1: The woman Marika is referring to is the witness who

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Speaker 1: testified against her, a neighbor of the victim, who said

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Speaker 1: she'd seen the crime unfold from her living room window

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Speaker 1: at two am. She told the jury she saw Marika

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Speaker 1: and two other people break down the victim's door and

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Speaker 1: assault him. The woman's name Violet Ellison. So do you

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Speaker 1: remember Violet Ellison.

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Speaker 5: I remember her getting up there saying she's seen me

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Speaker 5: through the window. She was wrong, she was wrong, Yes, ma'am,

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Speaker 5: it wasn't me. They discredited her at my trial. They

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Speaker 5: made her in the corribor. I remember her like she

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Speaker 5: just got up there and pointing at me.

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Speaker 1: Marika's attorneys showed the jury that Violet Ellison's view from

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Speaker 1: her living room window was blocked by a tree. There

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Speaker 1: was no possible way she could have seen Marika or

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Speaker 1: anyone else on her neighbor's porch.

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Speaker 3: So she was a big part of the case against.

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Speaker 4: You, and she.

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Speaker 5: Lied under oath, literally literally lied under oath.

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Speaker 1: Violet Ellison testified against Marika less than four months after

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Speaker 1: she served as the star witness against to Forrest Johnson.

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Speaker 1: Their trials happened in the same year, in the same courthouse,

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Speaker 1: prosecuted by the same DA's office. In both cases, Violet

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Speaker 1: Ellison knew the victim, spoke to detectives, and became a

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Speaker 1: lead witness. Mara and I find ourselves in Marika Wilson's

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Speaker 1: living room a few weeks after I made a lucky

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Speaker 1: discovery in Alabama's database of online court records. One afternoon,

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting in my office poking around in the database.

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Speaker 1: It's a clunky website with all these different drop down menus.

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Speaker 1: I'm running searches on Violet Ellison's name, trying her name

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Speaker 1: in a bunch of different ways, getting the same results.

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Speaker 1: When all of a sudden, I hit enter and boop,

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Speaker 1: a new list pops up criminal cases, all naming Violet

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Speaker 1: Ellison as a state's witness. So, in addition to t

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Speaker 1: Forest's case, I discover that Violet Ellison has been a

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Speaker 1: witness for the state in four other criminal cases. Marika

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Speaker 1: Wilson was the first person that we tracked down who

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Speaker 1: Violet Ellison had testified against. When I first called Marika,

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Speaker 1: I told her about the four other cases Violet was

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Speaker 1: involved in as a witness. Right, we know of five

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Speaker 1: different criminal cases.

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Speaker 5: Is these folks convicted because.

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Speaker 1: For her several of them?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Oh wow, oh wow, Oh man, y'all need to

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Speaker 5: help them people, because she's not credible. I said that

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Speaker 5: to my husband about that woman. I said, baby, he said,

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Speaker 5: this woman don't been involved in several cases, Like is

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Speaker 5: she on a payroll or something? It just sounds like

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Speaker 5: something crooked going on with me, because how does she

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Speaker 5: keep popping up in all these serious cases and being witnesses?

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Speaker 5: Like that's so, that don't sound right. I'm sorry, it doesn't. Wow,

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Speaker 5: and new boy on de rol because of this lady.

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Speaker 5: Oh wow, it's something going on with that, y'all.

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Speaker 1: In order to believe and to forrest Johnson's conviction, you

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Speaker 1: have to believe that Violet Ellison was truthful when she

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Speaker 1: said that she overheard to Forrest talk about killing Deputy Hardy,

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Speaker 1: that she wasn't after the reward money because she didn't

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Speaker 1: know about it. You have to believe that Violet Ellison

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Speaker 1: is credible. So we need to know everything we can

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Speaker 1: about Violet Ellison because without her, without her credibility, there

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Speaker 1: is no case against to Forrest Johnson. I'm Beth Shelburne.

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Speaker 1: This is ear witness, Chapter seven MESSI. In January of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, Mara and I start trying to track

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Speaker 1: down the other people Violet Ellison testified against. We spend

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Speaker 1: a lot of time in my car full days. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: I pack mom snacks, healthy stuff like hummus and baby carrots,

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Speaker 1: raw almonds, maybe a diet doctor pepper on a hard day.

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Speaker 1: Marika was the first person we were able to find.

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Speaker 1: The second case that listed Violet Ellison as a witness

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Speaker 1: was a second degree assault between two men who got

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Speaker 1: in a fight. The case ended in a plea deal,

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Speaker 1: so she never actually testified. We weren't able to figure

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Speaker 1: out exactly why she was listed as a witness. We

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Speaker 1: tried very hard to talk to the man charged in

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Speaker 1: the case, but never could reach him. And then there

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Speaker 1: was the third case. It involved a local pastor named

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Speaker 1: Bishop James Johnson, who was accused of inappropriately touching and

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Speaker 1: kissing three teenaged girls at his church run school in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. Violet Ellison was a school employee who

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Speaker 1: testified about the alleged abuse, but Bishop Johnson maintained he

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Speaker 1: was falsely accused and that Violet Ellison was lying. The

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Speaker 1: charges against him were eventually dropped by the state. We

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Speaker 1: talked to Bishop Johnson, who's now in his late eighties,

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Speaker 1: at his house in a suburb of Birmingham, and he

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Speaker 1: told us Violet Ellison made up the accusations in an

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Speaker 1: effort to get rid of him because she wanted to

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Speaker 1: run the school.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she was called my church.

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Speaker 8: She was.

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Speaker 1: We talked to one other school employee who corroborated what

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Speaker 1: Bishop Johnson told us that Violet Ellison made up the allegations.

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Speaker 1: I tried to find some of the alleged victims in

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Speaker 1: this case, but I wasn't able to track them down.

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Speaker 1: Bishop Johnson said he's forgiven Violet Ellison.

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Speaker 8: That's over, Thank God for over. I have nothing Mahall

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Speaker 8: against her. I forgave her. Ever Ladhams told I'm free, but.

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Speaker 1: He said she is not a trustworthy person.

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Speaker 4: I don't trust her.

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Speaker 2: She's not a personal trust.

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Speaker 1: George Holloway is the next person on our list of

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Speaker 1: people that Violet Ellison testified against. What we know from

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Speaker 1: court records is this. Between two thousand and eight and

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, George Holloway was charged in several domestic violence

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Speaker 1: incidents involving his girlfriend. But unlike Marika Wilson and Bishop

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Speaker 1: James Johnson, George Holloway pleaded guilty to his charges, which

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Speaker 1: included violating a protective order twice. He was sentenced to

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Speaker 1: three years in prison. The documents don't show why Violet

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Speaker 1: Ellison was a witness against George Holloway. So Mara and

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Speaker 1: I get in the car and drive around for hours,

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Speaker 1: knocking on doors with a list of possible home addresses,

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Speaker 1: with no luck. I need to turn around. Finally, we

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Speaker 1: pull up to the last address on our list around Sunset,

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Speaker 1: a small brick house in Bessemer.

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Speaker 5: We're here.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's always a gamble, but we'll just give

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Speaker 1: it a whirl. At the same time, a truck stops

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Speaker 1: at the top of the house's driveway. Can you are

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Speaker 1: we blocking you? And out hops a man wearing grass

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Speaker 1: stained work clothes and a neon green shirt. Are you

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Speaker 1: going to this house we're looking for mister George Holloway.

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Speaker 5: Is that you?

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Speaker 1: That's okay, George, I'm sorry to show up here like this.

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Speaker 1: We are journalists and we are working on a story

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Speaker 1: about a case. And I launch into a spiel about

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Speaker 1: what we're up to, and George Holloway listens quietly as

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Speaker 1: we stand next to his mailbox. And so we're trying

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Speaker 1: to get information on her. Her name, Violet Ellison. Do

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Speaker 1: you know her? Do you have an opinion about her?

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Speaker 1: Or have any any information that you could give us

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Speaker 1: about her.

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Speaker 4: I know she's very corendicted.

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Speaker 9: She's I like to be involved in a lot of

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Speaker 9: stuff that doesn't involve her. She's very She's a very

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Speaker 9: messy lady, very messy.

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Speaker 1: George Holloway invites us into his living room to talk

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Speaker 1: more about his relationship with Violet Ellison.

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Speaker 10: She's not a reliable person that you would trust, that

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Speaker 10: you will put your faith in. And I would tell

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Speaker 10: anybody whatever you have to say, do not say it

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Speaker 10: in front of her. Because it is going to get

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Speaker 10: turned totally backwards. Is not gonna be said the way

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Speaker 10: that you said. My opinion, stay away from that woman

200
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Speaker 10: because she's troubled.

201
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 1: He tells us that he met Violet Ellison through his

202
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,760
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend. It gets a little complicated, but it's like this.

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Speaker 1: George Holloway used to date a woman we'll call Sharon.

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Speaker 1: Before she was with George. Sharon dated Violet Ellison's son,

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Speaker 1: Reginald Smith, who's known as Red. George tells us that

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Speaker 1: when Sharon broke up with Red, she remained friends with

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Speaker 1: Violet Ellison, but he tells us Violet Ellison wanted Sharon

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Speaker 1: and her son Red to get back together, and she

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Speaker 1: thought George was in the way. George admits that he

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Speaker 1: and Sharon had a volatile relationship and because of that,

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Speaker 1: Sharon had a protective order against him. He says that

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Speaker 1: one night, he and Sharon had an argument in person,

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Speaker 1: violating the protective order. George says he left after the

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Speaker 1: argument and Sharon called police, but Violet Ellison later testified

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Speaker 1: that she heard and saw the whole thing firsthand.

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Speaker 10: She has said that you know she was there, she

217
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 10: witnessed it, but she was not there. She showed up

218
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Speaker 10: after everything had happened, and the pulviase was there on

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Speaker 10: the scene.

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Speaker 1: George tells us he decided to plead guilty to breaking

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Speaker 1: Sharon's protective order to wash his hands of the whole situation.

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Speaker 1: He says he hasn't seen Sharon, Violet Ellison, or her

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Speaker 1: son Read in years. George admits to physical fights with Sharon,

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Speaker 1: but it seems like his descriptions of these fights minimize

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Speaker 1: the vibe violence. We know there is another side to

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Speaker 1: the story, but Sharon doesn't respond to our interview requests.

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Speaker 1: I tell George about Violet Ellison's involvement into Forrest Johnson's

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Speaker 1: conviction and the five thousand dollars reward she was paid

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Speaker 1: in secret.

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Speaker 4: She would do anything possible that she can if money

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Speaker 4: is involved, even go to this extent to lie.

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Speaker 1: But he says Violet Ellison has an even stronger motivation

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Speaker 1: than money. Her son read.

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Speaker 4: She would do anything possible, anything and go to any

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Speaker 4: extent to keep us so out of trouble.

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Speaker 1: Multiple sources tell me that Red is a longtime drug user,

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Speaker 1: and court records show that he's been in and out

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Speaker 1: of jail. George says that Violet Ellison enabled her son.

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Speaker 4: She would cover up for.

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Speaker 10: Him, whether he was right of whether he was wrong.

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Speaker 10: You know, she knew he was doing things out there

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Speaker 10: in the street. But you know, if the police come,

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Speaker 10: she would lie and say he's not there. You know,

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Speaker 10: she would give police's informations leading to drug buses, people

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Speaker 10: that did robberies, and favor for them to drop charges

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Speaker 10: against Reginal, get the charges downgraded, you know, to keep

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Speaker 10: him from going to jail.

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Speaker 1: I leave the interview with George Holloway wondering could Red's

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Speaker 1: legal issues have motivated Violet Ellison to get involved with police.

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Speaker 1: Was she after leniency for her son. A search of

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Speaker 1: public court records shows that Red has a lengthy list

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Speaker 1: of misdemeanor and felony convictions on his record going back

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Speaker 1: to nineteen eighty But I checked with the Alabama Department

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Speaker 1: of Corrections and they have no record of him ever

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00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 1: serving time in prison. This tracks with what one of

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Speaker 1: Violet Ellison's neighbors told me that Red is often in trouble,

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Speaker 1: but he's like teflon, nothing sticks. For example, in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety seven, Red was charged with robbery and theft when

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Speaker 1: he stole five watches from a department store. He pleaded

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Speaker 1: guilty and was sentenced to fifteen years in prison, but

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00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:52,400
Speaker 1: then the judge amended read sentence and granted him probation

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00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 1: instead of prison time. But there's no information about why

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00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,960
Speaker 1: his sentence was downgraded, and this happened less than a

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00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 1: month before the start of to Forrest's second trial. That

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00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,719
Speaker 1: timing gets my attention. I wonder if it's possible that

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Speaker 1: Violet Ellison testified into Forrest's case in exchange for preferential

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00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,679
Speaker 1: treatment for her son, But on further examination, that seems

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00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: like a long shot. The charges against Red in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety seven were in Bessemer, not Jefferson County, where to

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00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 1: Forest was tried, with different prosecutors and judges. But I

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00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 1: do know that Violet Ellison was involved in her son's

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Speaker 1: criminal defense. In a two thousand and seven burglary case.

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Speaker 1: Records show that Red's attorney met with the defendant and

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Speaker 1: his mother for three hours in two separate meetings. Red

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Speaker 1: pleaded guilty in that case and got probation. Is read

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Speaker 1: getting preferential treatment because his mother has been a witness

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00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 1: for the state in multiple cases. I find no documentation

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00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 1: to support this, But then again, are deals like that

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00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 1: ever spelled out in court records? While looking through Red's files,

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00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 1: I notice an especially violent assault and battery from nineteen

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00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: ninety four. He was sentenced to supervised probation. I was

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00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: able to dig up a report of the incident, in

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00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 1: which police say Read spits on a woman, grabs her

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00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,919
Speaker 1: by the neck and hair, and pulls her around a room.

285
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: A child is listed as a witness. The victim's name

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00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: is Anita Davis, and her most likely addresses are all

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00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 1: in central Georgia. So Mara and I get back in

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00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: the car and make the four hour drive to try

289
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 1: to find her. Hi, we're looking for Anita Davis.

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00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 4: She passed away.

291
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm so sorry.

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00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 5: Are you her daughter? My name is Beth.

293
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Speaker 1: This is Maa. We are writers and we're working on

294
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: a story about the wrongful conviction, and we're reaching out

295
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: to people that may know the great witness. Her name

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Speaker 1: is Violet Ellison.

297
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Speaker 6: Oh, I know who's my grandma?

298
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so Violet Ellison is your grandmother?

299
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 5: Okay do you?

300
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 1: Unexpectedly we find ourselves talking to Violet Ellison's granddaughter, Tyse Davis,

301
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: is in her fifties, but doesn't look a day over forty.

302
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: When I mentioned her grandmother, Violet Ellison, Tyise comes out

303
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: from behind the screen door. She keeps her earbuds in

304
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: while we stand on the porch and talk.

305
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Speaker 5: What kind of grandmother was she? Was she involved in

306
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 5: your life?

307
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 6: No? No, she told my day, Yo, kids ain't an

308
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 6: never mountain there. But then we're the kids that's been successful.

309
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 6: And now she's trying to come back around.

310
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's not like warm feelings.

311
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

312
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: So far, most of the people I've contacted about Violet

313
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: Ellison had good reason to say negative things about her.

314
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 1: Those were people who she testified against. But this feels different.

315
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: We're hearing from a blood relative, a person connected to

316
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison through family. Tyist tells us she's retired from

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00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: the Air Force. She moved to Georgia with her mom,

318
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 1: Anita Davis, and her two brothers when they were kids.

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00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 1: Tyis says it was to get away from the chaos

320
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 1: surrounding her father's side of the family. We asked her

321
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: about Red, what's the deal with Red? Her son?

322
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 6: Uh So that's my dad. Okay, I really know how

323
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 6: to do him because he's been on drugs since I

324
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 6: was nine eight or nine, Okay, he stayed with her,

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Speaker 6: So you know you had a parents where you know,

326
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 6: you know your child doing stuff, but you uphold it first.

327
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 6: Is letting them know you wrong. Yeah, she upholds everything

328
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 6: you did.

329
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: That's exactly. Tys corroborates the picture already painted by George

330
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 1: Holloway and a neighbor of Violet Ellison, telling us that

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00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: she readily involves herself and other people's criminal issues, but

332
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: does whatever she can to protect her sl read when

333
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: he gets into trouble.

334
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 6: You don't need neighborhood to watch with her. But she

335
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 6: only if she only noticed what she wanted notice, Because

336
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 6: if her son was breaking into somebody house but steriously,

337
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 6: she didn't see that, but anything else she would see.

338
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 6: So yeah, that type of stuff.

339
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: We explained why we're interested in Violet Ellison and her son,

340
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: and Tys tells us she had recently heard about her

341
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: grandmother's involvement into Forrest Johnson's case.

342
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 6: So I wasn't surprised when I heard it because if

343
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 6: it involved money, I wouldn't be surprised.

344
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: Well, and it did. I mean she was paid five

345
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: thousand dollars.

346
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I wouldn't be surprised. Like when I heard

347
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 6: the story, I was like, Yeah, I'm not surprised at all.

348
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 6: She's money homer. So that's the issue that would, like

349
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 6: I said, will say anything to get money.

350
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: Why is she like that any idea?

351
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 6: No, even like I said, growing up, I had nothing

352
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 6: to do with them. For instance, I'm gonna give you

353
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 6: an example.

354
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: Ty East tells us that Violet Ellison was distant when

355
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: she was a child, but then right after Tyst joined

356
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: the Air Force, she got a call from her grandmother.

357
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 6: Haven't done nothing for me, her gray child, haven't done

358
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 6: nothing for me. When I joined the military, she said, hey,

359
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 6: I need your Social Security number so I can get insurance.

360
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 6: Po this on you just in case you know, something

361
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 6: happened to.

362
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 5: You and we can bury you.

363
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 6: I'm fine with the military got me covered and that

364
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 6: stuff and go to my mom. So why you need

365
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 6: my social But you ain't never decide to do that before.

366
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Speaker 7: So stuff like that.

367
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 6: But I'm not surprised with the money thing. And I

368
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 6: hate that this man could be innocent and for five

369
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 6: thousand dollars he's on did he for five thousand dollars?

370
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: But she testified under oath that she did not know

371
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: about the reward. She didn't know that any money was involved.

372
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 6: So exactly, my brother said, she ain't testified against nentheless

373
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 6: is money involved.

374
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, we realize that Tyss has earbuds

375
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: in because she's on the phone with someone. It's her brother, Tony.

376
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: Oh okay, is he here?

377
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 5: Yeah?

378
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: Do you think he would talk to us? Would it

379
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 1: be possible for us to come see him too?

380
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 5: You're fine with that, Tony, Okay, he would just have

381
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:32,239
Speaker 5: to Ki.

382
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison's grandson, Tony lives about ten minutes away from

383
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: his sister Tye. We get to his house and the

384
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: front yard is filled with cars in various states of repair.

385
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: He's waiting for us on the porch.

386
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 8: Hello, Hi, how are you are you?

387
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 11: Tony?

388
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: After he finishes extracting an old bird's nest from the rafters,

389
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: Tony talks to us us for forty minutes.

390
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 11: I can tell you one thing about my grandma. She

391
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 11: is a that's a true scam artist.

392
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 5: That's the truth.

393
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 4: I hate to see it.

394
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 11: I know that's my grandmother, but that's a true scam

395
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 11: audi deal any way she can get a dollar telling

396
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 11: you she ain't that type that's just gonna help him out,

397
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 11: just to help them.

398
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 4: It gotta have money, it got it.

399
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 11: Gotta have money involved. Wow, it just had it. It

400
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 11: gotta have You ain't got money involved.

401
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: Tony says his grandmother tried to scam him out of

402
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars by claiming that he owed her for

403
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: a loan. Mara tells Tony about how the state presented

404
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison to forrest Johnson's trial, and that she says

405
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: she didn't know about the reward when she testified. He

406
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: doesn't believe that getting you.

407
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 11: Being like she's concerned about stuff, but really she ain't

408
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 11: concern She's just trying to get your business, trying to

409
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 11: see a way she can get some money. Oh reward

410
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 11: for this I'll find, hopefully, but I'll she lied too

411
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 11: much like my dad lied too much like she She

412
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 11: alive by anything to get away with anything.

413
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: So he goes on to describe the relationship Violet Ellison

414
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: has with her son, Read who is also Tony's father.

415
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 11: They like Bonnie and Clyde, I should arrive on him

416
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 11: the whole time. She could see with her own eyes

417
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 11: with this man, indeed, and she and she'd be like no,

418
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 11: ain't see, ain't see ye.

419
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 4: She always doing like this.

420
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 11: She'd be like this and it was new like.

421
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: Tony then tells us the story about the assault and

422
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: battery case that led us here, filling in details that

423
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: are missing from the court files. He says, when he

424
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: was little, Red was on drugs and would hit Tony's mom.

425
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: One night, Tony, wanting to protect her, stabbed Redka.

426
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 11: That was when I was young, a child. I stabbed him. Wow,

427
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 11: I really did I stab him. I stabed him in

428
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 11: his cab. Most of them stuff, ohala, and you know

429
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 11: who the first person that pulled up Vie.

430
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 8: She the third first pull it up, and he didn't.

431
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 3: They didn't.

432
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 4: They told the police a lie.

433
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 11: They tried to put it like somebody he got in

434
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 11: a fight with somebody and all his stuff for they wait.

435
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: So Violet lied to the police.

436
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 11: She always lied for the police to try to give

437
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 11: him out of trouble. But she tried to put it

438
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 11: like I was gonna get in trouble to stab him.

439
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 5: I didn't care.

440
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 3: I was little.

441
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 11: I didn't care what y'all would do to a child.

442
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 11: I'm just proteking my mama, yeh.

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00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: According to Tony, even when he was little, he saw

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00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison lie to police to protect her son, Red,

445
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: but Red was arrested for this incident and sentenced to

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00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: sixty days probation. And it was after this Tyis and

447
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: Tony's mother, Anita, decided to move the family to Georgia.

448
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: Like his sister Tays, Tony was also troubled to recently

449
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,479
Speaker 1: hear about his grandmother's involvement into Forrest Johnson's conviction and

450
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: death sence.

451
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 5: I go through that.

452
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 11: I really hate that being and ice to the point

453
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 11: it's a chance he can lose his life or fire outluncable.

454
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm not typically comfortable reporting negative opinions about a private citizen,

455
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: but Violet Ellison's word is the case against to Forrest Johnson.

456
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: In order to figure out how an innocent person ended

457
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: up on death row, there was no way around investigating

458
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: the star witness and whether or not she's credible. I

459
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: had that conversation with Violet Ellison on her front porch

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00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: a year before I talked with Tys and Tony, But

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00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: after hearing from her grandchildren, I went back and knocked

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00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: on Violet Ellison's door again multiple times. HI, we're looking

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00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: for miss Violet Ellison. I wanted to learn more about

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00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: her relationship with her son Read and her involvement in

465
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: other cases. Each time I knocked, the woman inside claimed

466
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison wasn't at home. I even left a note

467
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: in her mailbox along with my business card, but Violet

468
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: Ellison never responded.

469
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 5: Miss Ellison, is that you.

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00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: I wasn't able to find documented proof of all of

471
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: the allegations that sources made against Violet Ellison. For example,

472
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: there's no paper trail that shows she lied to protect

473
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: her son Read. But there's also no ironclad proof that

474
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison heard to Forrest Johnson talk about killing Deputy

475
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: Hardy in nineteen ninety five. The state presented her testimony

476
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: with no verification of what she claimed, no recording of

477
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: the calls she evesdropped on, nothing outside her word and

478
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: the notes she turned over to police that connected to

479
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: Forrest Johnson to a murder. He maintains to this day

480
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: that he did not commit. Prosecutors presented Violet Ellison as

481
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: a concerned mother troubled by her conscience, and she was

482
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: adamant that she didn't know about the reward when she testified.

483
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: But through my reporting consistent negative descriptions kept coming up

484
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: about her, even from her own grandchildren. One former co

485
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: worker called her sneaky. A relative referred to her as

486
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: a peace breaker. Almost every person we talked to said

487
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison should not be trusted. We spoke to over

488
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: a dozen different people about Violet Ellison. The consistent portrait

489
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: that emerged from these conversations is diametrically opposed to the

490
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: characterization presented by prosecutors at trial and what judges still

491
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 1: believe as to Forrest tries to undo his conviction. I

492
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: also learned that Violet Ellison was in a precarious financial position,

493
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: burdened by medical debt. She lives in a community plagued

494
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 1: by violence and poverty. Her son suffers from addiction. She's

495
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: estranged from some of her immediate family. She seems to

496
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: seize a p opportunities where she can. One of those

497
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: was created by the state when they offered money for

498
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: information about a police officer's murder. Fifteen years before I

499
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: began looking into Violet Ellison, there was someone else who

500
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: had questions about her credibility. Jeff Wallace, the prosecutor who

501
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: stood in front of a jury and threw Deputy Hardy's

502
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: hat onto the courtroom floor.

503
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 2: Jeff Waugh spent four years of his life prosecuting this case,

504
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: trying to put Rodregis Ford into Forest Johnson on death row.

505
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 2: He successfully put to force Johnson on death row. I

506
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: mean four years of his professional life he devoted to this.

507
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace reached out to Ty Alper and the rest

508
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: of the Forest's legal team to share what was on

509
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: his mind, and today he says that to Forrest Johnson

510
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: deserves a new trial.

511
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 2: Twenty years later, he's saying, I think it should be undone.

512
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 2: I mean that to me takes courage that most lawyers

513
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 2: don't have.

514
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: That's next time. Ear Witness is a production of Lava

515
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One.

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00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and

517
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: me Beth Shelburn. The investigative reporting for this series was

518
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: done by Me and MARAA McNamara. Producers are MARAA McNamara,

519
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: Hannah Bial and Jackie Polly. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer.

520
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 1: Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from

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00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: Marie Sutton, fact check help from Catherine Newhan, and special

522
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,879
Speaker 1: thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can

523
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter at

524
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: Lava for Good. To see behind the scenes content from

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00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: our investigation, visit lava for goood dot com slash ear

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00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: Witness