WEBVTT - Fire Drill 097: The Great Rollback Debate - PART 2 (w/ Mike Clayton) 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.640 What's the point of a golf course at that level? 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:09.120 It's a bull's going three hundred and seventy five yards. 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:11.160 There is there is no point to it. There's no 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.960 point to golf if every every powfowards are driving a 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.119 wage and you can't keep extending tease. You can't. So 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.320 you know this is a this is the right decision. 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:28.400 I got daouncing my head can't get him and not 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:33.120 the thing what I'm thinking about, not counting bouncing my head. 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:38.320 Can't get him out, not the thing what I'm thinking about. 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.560 Hello, this is Alan Schipnook back for another Fire Drill podcast. 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:55.280 We started talking roll back, Matt Janella, Michael Bamberger and myself. 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.320 We ended that because Michael Clayton called in from Melbourne. 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.480 You know Michael Clayton as the core architect of barn 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.559 Google Dunes and Neo Classic down in Tasmania, long time 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:12.600 tour player in Australia and in Europe, a great thinker 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.680 about the game. And without further ado, let's go to cleats. 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:18.280 Who's coming in hot. 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:20.800 Well, I've been on about it for twenty years, which 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:22.800 is about as long as everyone else has since the 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.240 pro v when it there's a whole bunch of issues 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:31.520 it for the best players. It fundamentally changed the way 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.240 golf courses play because the ball goes so far. So 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.880 if you'd said that to Alison McKenzie one hundred years 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:42.480 ago that in one hundred years time, the vast majority 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:44.840 of power fours were going to be only driving eight 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.199 irons and the other six holes were six h seven, 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.000 I had two five irons. Now, if you'd said to 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:52.200 the great minds of golf of one hundred years ago 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:54.480 that this is what the game is going to toscend into, 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:59.520 is a succession of massive drives and short irons, that 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:01.880 it would be horrified at that because that wasn't the 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:04.800 way they thought the test of golf. That wasn't what 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:09.400 they saw the questions of golf course asking that they 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:15.600 all assumed and thought. The golf course would ask occasionally 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.120 that the part four was a test of a driving 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.280 a wood, lots of long lines, chilling has to win foot, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:27.400 you know, it was about drives and long lines, and 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:31.440 that has largely completely gone from the professional game. Mike 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:35.720 One asked Rory three the Scottish Open, when was the 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.480 last time you hit more than a six hundred a 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.840 part four I don't remember. You know, it's clearly a 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.720 ludicrous situation when when a golf course Arctic and a 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:47.480 golf course can't ask the best players in the world 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:49.240 is at more than a six hunder or part forever 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:51.240 and it really happens. 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:53.639 So the question now is. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.400 The USG and the RNA have decided to take a stand. 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.360 But did they go far enough? 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.399 I mean, is is this rollback and have a material 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.480 difference on how the game is played? 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.480 Or is it more symbolic than anything else? 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.320 If they went back to the distance Jack and Greg 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:15.480 hit the ball in the mid eighties, not Jack and 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.160 Jack in the seventies, Greg Norman when Norman was a 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:20.120 massive hit eighty but he probably wasn't at top of 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.440 the driving distance on the PGA two is probably was, 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.200 but he was in the top three. He was driving 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.399 it somewhere around the mid two seven to eighty. Say 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.080 that would be that would for me would be a 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:35.040 reasonable You know, was anyone saying golf was broken in 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:36.840 the eighties when when the ball was going as far 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.520 as it was and short courses of length and since then? 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.920 But you know, in twenty twenty eight, when they're rolling 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.360 the ball back and the balls and it's going to 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.200 be going further in twenty twenty eight than it is 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.120 in twenty twenty three because there are just more young 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.920 kids coming out with the ball further. So if what 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:57.440 are they rolling it back, you know, ten percent? Five percent? 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:03.000 Maybe they were saying, yeah, so not going to make 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.440 that much difference. I don't think, you know, it's what's 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.240 five percent, So it's fifteen or twenty yards, it'll help 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.840 and it'll help with you know, all this last week 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.520 is routine eight iron. We had we become a bit 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:18.040 of a joke by the end of the week because 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.720 we had we had the exact one sixty meet number 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.800 five times during the week exactly on one one hundred 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.520 and seventy five yards. That's an eight iron. 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.720 The rollback has not gone far enough. So one thing 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.480 that Matt and Mike Lane were kicking around was why 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.040 not a tournament ball just for the major championships to 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.680 protect these old golf courses. Would you would you support that? 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:42.279 No? Because what about Australia? Does anyone care about Royal Melbourne? 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.719 I mean, the problem with this debate is it's entirely 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:49.520 American centric. Now that affects America. I mean, you know, 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.080 there are two points. We went through a roll back, 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.279 an effective roll back. The opening of nineteen seventy four 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:59.600 went to the big ball, then the tour in Australia. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:02.520 I think in nine seventy eight, I think the seventy 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:04.240 seven Open was a small ball tim and seventy eight 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:05.600 was a big ball to him. It was the first 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:10.120 one I played in Europe about the same time, so 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.360 you know, and no one in America cared that we 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.360 all lost twenty five guards and it was a much 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:20.240 bigger change. The size of the ball changed, every shot change, 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:23.680 chips changed, bunker shot change, putch changed, It was way 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.120 more difficult to play in the wind, you know, I mean, 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.680 everything changed for us, and no one in America gave 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.919 a damn that we all had to change. And of 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:35.160 course the unintended consequence of that was the great generation 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.040 of foreign players that you know, I argue with that 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:41.640 never would have happened. Ballisteros, Norman, Price, Langer fell, all 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:46.359 those guys lyle if they'd been switching, which was happening 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.520 in Australia, you know, David Graham would come back and 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:51.240 he'd want to play the big ball because he was 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.480 playing in America he hated switching balls, and everyone hated 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:58.000 switching balls back and forward. So it was a great 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:02.320 thing that had happened. And the unintended consequence was that 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:04.360 generation of players all of a sudden didn't have to 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:06.880 change balls and you had to hit the ball better 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:08.919 because it was more difficult used to be called. So 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:11.200 now that's what I was saying, that it was off 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.640 the point. So no, I wouldn't just in doorse of 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.919 the major championships because what about courses in Britain and 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.520 Australia for tournaments here, So I. 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.960 Guess it'd be more like a tournament, a tournament ball 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.400 that any tournament could invoke that rule. 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.760 Yeah, well, so of course the Australian would adopt it, 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.280 and probably the Japanese Open. But then you've got this 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.039 mess of players switching balls again, which is which is 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.159 what we're is where we were aut last time, and 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.919 players hate switching balls. Are you either change or you don't. 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.680 But I think it's going to be a worldwide thing, 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:51.120 you know, I always you know, I always thought bicycle 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.120 in the game was better because we had a bifircated 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.039 game and it was just fine, right, you know, of 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.000 course this is a compromise, and a compromise, no one's 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.160 ever happy as a pissed off because they're losing distance, 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:06.640 even though you know, again it's an American center of debate. 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.960 The evidence of our rollback, which was smaller a big ball, 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:14.000 was that no one cared when they said that's a 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.080 good idea, and they changed and everyone changed, and you know, 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.280 Peter Thompson objected because his view was, why are we 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.360 blindly following America, which was you know, not long after 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:28.800 the Vietnam War, which where we blindly followed America into 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:30.800 the Vietnam Wars. That wasn't a very good idea either, 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:36.160 but you know, that was a reasonable point of view. 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.840 Why are we just blindly following America? Because because you know, 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:44.320 there was there were two reasons for the well, the 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.680 small ball was better in the wind, and it was 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:48.040 the easier to use in the wind. And there's a 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.160 much more wind in Australia and Britain there is in America. 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:56.960 But my understanding is the Americans began to use the 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.760 big ball because it sat up better on the lush 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.360 off their ways, you know, way back when they changed 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.160 when they made the ball bigger. I don't know when 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.560 they did it, the twenties or thirties. Whenever they did 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:09.720 it was because the small balls sat down, and you 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.040 know the weather lash of Fellers in America, the small 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.560 ball sat down more so they just made the big 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.680 the ball bigger than make it easy to hit. I 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.040 think that's what happened. Amazing. 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.000 It is a funny, funny chapter that modern golf fans 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.160 have forgot about completely, that we've already gone through this 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.440 and as a sport. 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:31.680 But well, well that's kind of my big beefy is 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.560 that you know, you get on Twitter and Americans are 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:36.520 going nut's about this. Well, we all went through this. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.080 This wasn't that big a deal. But it's you know, 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:44.200 it's maybe a bad analogy, but when we had a 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.760 gun massacre in nineteen ninety six and thirty five people 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.760 were killed in Port Arthur, the prime minister, the conservative 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.120 prime minister, said that's bad. We're going to buy back 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.040 guns and we're going to restrict people's ability to use 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.000 and buy guns. They won said that's a good idea. 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.840 You and Sandy Hook and if that didn't stop, you know, 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:08.199 so Americans react much differently in Australian than probably Europeans. 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.199 And geopolitics has entered the chat. 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.599 But hold on, let me, let me, let me just 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.720 jump in here for a second, because, first of all, 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:20.640 Jim Jeffries and his just having you talk about the 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:21.600 guns and stuff that. 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:23.600 Jim Jeffries comedic, brilliant. 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.160 Yeah, is one of the things that I actually watch 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.720 to give myself like therapy over what's happening with guns 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:32.839 in America. It's like, I just listen to that and 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:35.959 it gives me at least a little I'm able to 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.079 laugh about a really sad and horrific situation. 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:40.760 Yeah, that's an amendment. 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.000 Yeah, I mean, I can't even you can't even do 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.760 him justice. Watch Jim Jeffries on guns. If you haven't 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:48.720 seen it, I've watched it forty four hundred and seventy 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:53.800 two times. It's brilliant. The Michael I'm listening, I have 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:58.120 nothing but respect and admiration for you, your place in 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:02.760 the game architecture, your opinions. So I've been listening, and 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.160 I and I and I read what you what you write, 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.840 and I and I and I hear what you're saying. 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:11.600 You're caddying for these young players. But you know, for 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:16.320 me and and you, we said, yes, I'm American centric 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.040 because I'm in America, and I've been a part of 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.599 the game since, you know, covering the game since y 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:28.960 five and and have watched the game struggle, ebb and flow, shrink, grow, 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.240 shrink again. Here we are at this height of this 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:38.520 boom in America with golf. Everybody's coming to the game, 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.280 and we're coming at the game. The game has evolved, right. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.440 We're just on the phone and did a podcast on 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.280 Jay Blasi redoing a part three course at Golden Gate Park. 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.120 We know gold Hill Park, and Jeff comes and plays 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.560 Per Simmons at a forty five hundred yard par sixty five. 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.160 And that place is booming and it's great and people 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:57.840 can roll back there or not roll back. And we 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.240 have this, you know, all those oh the game initiatives 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.640 and all those youth initiatives, and all this momentum and 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.800 growth for the amateurs, for the people who pay to 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:14.000 play is in a really nice, beautiful, healthy place. Now 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.200 some would argue we have too many people out there. 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.760 They're the etiquette is bad, and I feel like over 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.240 time we train them up, we get more people playing 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.200 the game and more people playing the game means more 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:29.559 good people because the game fosters good people. Right, We 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:34.719 learn community, camaraderie. We travel to play the game. By traveling, 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.360 you experience different cultures. Different cultures means you get more information. 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.640 More information means less racism, less bullshitty. That relates to 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:47.320 the other sort of components of general life and the 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.720 way we consume the world around us. Right, all those 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.679 things are why we I think we can all agree 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.920 the common bond here is that we love the game. 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:56.120 Right. 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.360 You love the game. I love the game. We come 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:02.880 at it from different perspectives. You're really in the ropes 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.880 of the professional game and seeing these guys go driver 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.439 eight iron from one hundred and seventy and that hurts you, right, 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:13.560 that hurts you. What what hurts me is the governing 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.319 bodies contradictions of like grow the game, grow the game, 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.200 grow the app hold on, we grew too much, or 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:22.079 the ball's going too far, and now we're going to 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.280 put a full stop on the people who pay to play. Right, 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.319 people rocking up, and the general perception being that whether 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.959 it's five yards or fifteen yards or zero yards, whatever 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:37.760 it is, it's just this pr nightmare that they've unleashed 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:42.360 right now today on the masses, and the game being 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:46.880 dragged professionally through this horrific situation from a professional standpoint, 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.400 and then throwing the ams into a similar pr nightmare. 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:55.240 Just feels like it doesn't make sense. Why just the ball? 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.240 Why not shrink the club beds, Why not grow the 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.480 fairway length? You know hard? In fact, the fair ways 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.480 at the old course were running faster than the green. Like, 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.880 there's so many other factors to me to pinpoint the 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:11.600 ball to say that this is the issue, and this 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.000 is what we're rolling back, and this is how far 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.160 we're rolling back, and we're doing in twenty eight Like 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.600 to me, it's like it's so unnecessary, and that's what 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:20.280 hurts me. 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.520 Well, I don't think the ball is clearly not the issue. 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.600 The balls the solution. The issue is, you know, the 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.040 complete failure of the USCA and the RNA to administer 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.800 someone that controlled the size of the driverhead. When the 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.080 great Big Bertha came out, they should have said that's it, 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.920 you know. So what I think came with the oversized 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:44.959 driver ahead was long as shafts, because if you put 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:46.560 a forty three and a half inch shaft in a 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.120 one of the modern drivers that looks completely out of scale, 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.440 looks ridiculous. And if you put a one or today's 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:54.800 shafts in an oppersimit head, it also looks ridiculous. So 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:56.960 the scale of the the length of the club, which 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:58.920 is all contributed to the ball going further, and if 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.160 also the ball runs for there was no run last 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.160 week at this ran open. The ball was not moving 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.800 on the fairway more than five yards, so short, and 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:12.400 it's always run for Everetts and Andrews, you know, and 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.480 my Canadate one. It's been a lot of it's been 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:21.800 a COVID injuice boom and two that go. But we 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:23.840 went through this before and nothing, no one can play, 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.200 nothing happened. The game still the game, you know. I 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.160 arguably the game grew in the in the in the 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.520 eighties when everyone lost twenty five yards and went and 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:34.400 went to play with the big ball, which was a 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.440 bigger change than this to the average player, was a 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:38.600 much bigger change to change the size of the ball, 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.840 and the game did just fine. So I don't see 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.040 that the game is predicated around how far the ball goes. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.800 The other point I would make is that to agree 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.800 with you. The best the best thing the administration could 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.760 do was take away all the restrictions and make a 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.480 ball that went fifty yards further for women and old 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.640 guys and probably half the people who play golf. So 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:05.680 why why is my wife's mother playing golf with the 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.960 sign boll Roy McElroy. It's ridiculous. Michael Buller goes further 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:13.440 if you can, well, you know, wouldn't that grow the 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.840 game more than I think what was if you you know, 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.480 for the you know, for the majority of amateurs who 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:20.520 played the game, if the bull went further, wouldn't the 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:21.280 game be more fun? 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:23.200 Yeah? And the other thing is, I think we all 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:29.000 agreed that bifurcating is the answer. And unfortunately, you know 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.800 that got had declined or denied at the elite level, 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.200 and so therefore here we are. You know, I look 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.720 at pickleball is one of the fastest growing sports in 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.280 the US because it's a mini mini version of tennis. 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.000 We see short course, top golf, part three courses, you know, 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.280 as I pointed out, look at Bandon Dune's the last 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:52.040 four editions short course, putting course, short and fun course 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.640 in the Sheep Ranch and another short course. Because Kaiser's 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.240 hyper focused on the retail golfer and making sure people 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.400 want to keep coming back. He's creating more short cradle 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.920 at Pinehurst and the short course at Whistling Straits and 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.040 Forest Dunes and over and over and over again. Short 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:12.120 is happening. The game is evolving. We are making adjustments 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:17.920 because of time, playability, affordability, accessibility, all those things. It 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.520 feels like they say, oh, not doing anything, wasn't It 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.360 wasn't an option. In fact, as it relates to the 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:26.360 people who pay to play, I think it was an option. 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.080 And I was saying earlier when we were talking with Bamberger. 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.200 If the USJA is sitting on a polo cash and 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.120 the RNA is sitting on a polo cash, why don't 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.760 they cut out the middleman, not deal with the manufacturers, 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.880 make their own tournament ball, set up a twenty million 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:41.960 dollar perse that's called the US Open, which is a 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.120 major championship. Say you got to play with this ball 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.720 that we made, and let everything else fall into place. 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:50.360 People who are going to want to play for that 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.400 kind of money are going to start playing with that 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.880 ball and practicing with it and using it when they 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.240 need to, when designated events. Say we're going to the 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.800 tournament ball. It feels like then you're addressing the rollback 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.399 that needs to happen at the venues that need it 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:08.879 to happen at, with the players who need it to 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.280 be that need to be impacted, and you're leaving everybody 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:12.919 else alone. 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:15.480 I mean that was That's what's crazy. 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.119 That was part of that was the original phrasing of 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.840 this rollback was the local model rule. Like they could 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.600 have this already, would have been done and dusted, it 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.640 would have been announced today, but the tours killed it, 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:29.120 like yes. 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.359 So so it's it's a case of be careful what 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.320 you wish for. You know, it's the manufacturer's fault. If 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.639 Wally Ulon whoever the bust of Toddles is right now 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:38.880 it said, this is a good idea. We're very happy 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:40.720 to make a ball for the top level of the game. 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:42.800 You know, we don't want to bother it, cut it, 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.840 so so we'll support this. Instead they kick and screaming, 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.000 go nuts about it, like like every every like every 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.840 lobby group, like the cigarette companies are, the alcohol companies are, 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.080 the gambling companies. Certainly in Australia, I argue against everything 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.160 that I think is going to affect their bottom line. 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.480 So the us and I said, okay, we'll do it 0:17:59.480 --> 0:17:59.879 for everyone. 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.119 Well they are they in fairness to them, in fairness 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:07.040 to them, and I'm not paid by any equipment company, right, 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.040 we have no ties to any equipment company. But in 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:16.439 fairness to let's say titleist. If some restaurant is making 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.600 really good chicken and they've worked hard at their recipe 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:21.680 and they're making the best chicken in town, and someone 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.120 rocks up and says, sorry, no more selling that type 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:26.640 of chicken. You're going to have to use this type 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:28.760 of chicken. And they go, well, wait a minute. We've 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.720 spent years and we've got this chef that specifically makes 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.159 this famous recipe, and you're going to take I mean, 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.200 they are trying to make a living. And that's why 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.160 I'm saying to the USGA and the RNA, then get 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.960 in the ball business and make your own ball. Don't 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:46.800 be beholden to the manufacturers. If you really want to 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.439 govern the game. You kind of missed the boat you lost. 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.359 The ship has sailed, and you know twenty years ago 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.560 you kind of missed. Now you can take matters in 0:18:57.560 --> 0:18:59.480 your own hands because you've made a bunch of money 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.880 off of all those guys hitting at that far, this long, 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.760 this many times. You've made the money on on on 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.160 the tournaments that you hold. Put it into your own 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.840 ball and take control of your own situation and pay 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.119 for the price. Pay the price that you missed twenty 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.040 years ago by not doing what you should have been 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:18.640 done back then. 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.880 So who's going to use that ball? The European too, 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:26.480 the Japanese too, this is African too, these trying to it. Well, 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.320 then it's just a complete miss because you know the 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.360 players are going to go to they're going to play 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.080 the West Test, the Classical or whatever. Though, and then 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:35.719 the week after they got to the USR and they 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.359 got to change bulls when they go they're going to 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:38.960 hide doing that. 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:41.359 In baseball, Michael, one week you play at Finway. In 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.760 the next next week you play at Kamiski, or the 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:45.639 next week you go to Petco and you got to 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:49.240 play different length of of of you know, little different 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.760 lighting situations, you know, different court. Every golf course creates 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.000 their own set of different you know, it's a venue. 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:56.320 It changes all the time. 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.840 Like my mind would be the histor the evidence of 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.480 when the game last had that situation when players would 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.439 come to Australia go to Britain to live for the 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:10.440 open and switch balls. They hated it. In fact, Jack 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:12.320 was the one I think he said to the RNA 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.160 in ninth you know in the early seventies, we need 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:16.920 to go and we all need to be start playing 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:18.720 the same ball. So in seventy four they switched to 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:23.000 the big ball. So you know, players players switching back 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.000 and forward is going to be a nightmare, I think. 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.520 But you're still dealing with the small subset who get 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.520 paid to play, and not affecting the people who pay 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.880 to play, which is really at the base of all 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.919 of this. This is a business. This is a game 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:41.840 people choose to participate in in their off time after 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:43.520 they're after they're done with work. 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.080 Yeah that's true, but it goes back to my original point. 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.399 When they rolled the ball back in Australia and Britain, 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.400 no one gave up becaus the ball went shorter. No, 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.320 golves are much better game than you know. I'm not 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:57.439 going to play if my ball goes shorter. I mean, 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.679 either move up a tea or you know whatever. But 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:02.919