Speaker 1: What's the point of a golf course at that level?
Speaker 1: It's a bull's going three hundred and seventy five yards.
Speaker 1: There is there is no point to it. There's no
Speaker 1: point to golf if every every powfowards are driving a
Speaker 1: wage and you can't keep extending tease. You can't. So
Speaker 1: you know this is a this is the right decision.
Speaker 2: I got daouncing my head can't get him and not
Speaker 2: the thing what I'm thinking about, not counting bouncing my head.
Speaker 3: Can't get him out, not the thing what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 4: Hello, this is Alan Schipnook back for another Fire Drill podcast.
Speaker 4: We started talking roll back, Matt Janella, Michael Bamberger and myself.
Speaker 4: We ended that because Michael Clayton called in from Melbourne.
Speaker 4: You know Michael Clayton as the core architect of barn
Speaker 4: Google Dunes and Neo Classic down in Tasmania, long time
Speaker 4: tour player in Australia and in Europe, a great thinker
Speaker 4: about the game. And without further ado, let's go to cleats.
Speaker 4: Who's coming in hot.
Speaker 1: Well, I've been on about it for twenty years, which
Speaker 1: is about as long as everyone else has since the
Speaker 1: pro v when it there's a whole bunch of issues
Speaker 1: it for the best players. It fundamentally changed the way
Speaker 1: golf courses play because the ball goes so far. So
Speaker 1: if you'd said that to Alison McKenzie one hundred years
Speaker 1: ago that in one hundred years time, the vast majority
Speaker 1: of power fours were going to be only driving eight
Speaker 1: irons and the other six holes were six h seven,
Speaker 1: I had two five irons. Now, if you'd said to
Speaker 1: the great minds of golf of one hundred years ago
Speaker 1: that this is what the game is going to toscend into,
Speaker 1: is a succession of massive drives and short irons, that
Speaker 1: it would be horrified at that because that wasn't the
Speaker 1: way they thought the test of golf. That wasn't what
Speaker 1: they saw the questions of golf course asking that they
Speaker 1: all assumed and thought. The golf course would ask occasionally
Speaker 1: that the part four was a test of a driving
Speaker 1: a wood, lots of long lines, chilling has to win foot,
Speaker 1: you know, it was about drives and long lines, and
Speaker 1: that has largely completely gone from the professional game. Mike
Speaker 1: One asked Rory three the Scottish Open, when was the
Speaker 1: last time you hit more than a six hundred a
Speaker 1: part four I don't remember. You know, it's clearly a
Speaker 1: ludicrous situation when when a golf course Arctic and a
Speaker 1: golf course can't ask the best players in the world
Speaker 1: is at more than a six hunder or part forever
Speaker 1: and it really happens.
Speaker 5: So the question now is.
Speaker 4: The USG and the RNA have decided to take a stand.
Speaker 5: But did they go far enough?
Speaker 4: I mean, is is this rollback and have a material
Speaker 4: difference on how the game is played?
Speaker 5: Or is it more symbolic than anything else?
Speaker 1: If they went back to the distance Jack and Greg
Speaker 1: hit the ball in the mid eighties, not Jack and
Speaker 1: Jack in the seventies, Greg Norman when Norman was a
Speaker 1: massive hit eighty but he probably wasn't at top of
Speaker 1: the driving distance on the PGA two is probably was,
Speaker 1: but he was in the top three. He was driving
Speaker 1: it somewhere around the mid two seven to eighty. Say
Speaker 1: that would be that would for me would be a
Speaker 1: reasonable You know, was anyone saying golf was broken in
Speaker 1: the eighties when when the ball was going as far
Speaker 1: as it was and short courses of length and since then?
Speaker 1: But you know, in twenty twenty eight, when they're rolling
Speaker 1: the ball back and the balls and it's going to
Speaker 1: be going further in twenty twenty eight than it is
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three because there are just more young
Speaker 1: kids coming out with the ball further. So if what
Speaker 1: are they rolling it back, you know, ten percent? Five percent?
Speaker 1: Maybe they were saying, yeah, so not going to make
Speaker 1: that much difference. I don't think, you know, it's what's
Speaker 1: five percent, So it's fifteen or twenty yards, it'll help
Speaker 1: and it'll help with you know, all this last week
Speaker 1: is routine eight iron. We had we become a bit
Speaker 1: of a joke by the end of the week because
Speaker 1: we had we had the exact one sixty meet number
Speaker 1: five times during the week exactly on one one hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy five yards. That's an eight iron.
Speaker 4: The rollback has not gone far enough. So one thing
Speaker 4: that Matt and Mike Lane were kicking around was why
Speaker 4: not a tournament ball just for the major championships to
Speaker 4: protect these old golf courses. Would you would you support that?
Speaker 1: No? Because what about Australia? Does anyone care about Royal Melbourne?
Speaker 1: I mean, the problem with this debate is it's entirely
Speaker 1: American centric. Now that affects America. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: there are two points. We went through a roll back,
Speaker 1: an effective roll back. The opening of nineteen seventy four
Speaker 1: went to the big ball, then the tour in Australia.
Speaker 1: I think in nine seventy eight, I think the seventy
Speaker 1: seven Open was a small ball tim and seventy eight
Speaker 1: was a big ball to him. It was the first
Speaker 1: one I played in Europe about the same time, so
Speaker 1: you know, and no one in America cared that we
Speaker 1: all lost twenty five guards and it was a much
Speaker 1: bigger change. The size of the ball changed, every shot change,
Speaker 1: chips changed, bunker shot change, putch changed, It was way
Speaker 1: more difficult to play in the wind, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: everything changed for us, and no one in America gave
Speaker 1: a damn that we all had to change. And of
Speaker 1: course the unintended consequence of that was the great generation
Speaker 1: of foreign players that you know, I argue with that
Speaker 1: never would have happened. Ballisteros, Norman, Price, Langer fell, all
Speaker 1: those guys lyle if they'd been switching, which was happening
Speaker 1: in Australia, you know, David Graham would come back and
Speaker 1: he'd want to play the big ball because he was
Speaker 1: playing in America he hated switching balls, and everyone hated
Speaker 1: switching balls back and forward. So it was a great
Speaker 1: thing that had happened. And the unintended consequence was that
Speaker 1: generation of players all of a sudden didn't have to
Speaker 1: change balls and you had to hit the ball better
Speaker 1: because it was more difficult used to be called. So
Speaker 1: now that's what I was saying, that it was off
Speaker 1: the point. So no, I wouldn't just in doorse of
Speaker 1: the major championships because what about courses in Britain and
Speaker 1: Australia for tournaments here, So I.
Speaker 4: Guess it'd be more like a tournament, a tournament ball
Speaker 4: that any tournament could invoke that rule.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, so of course the Australian would adopt it,
Speaker 1: and probably the Japanese Open. But then you've got this
Speaker 1: mess of players switching balls again, which is which is
Speaker 1: what we're is where we were aut last time, and
Speaker 1: players hate switching balls. Are you either change or you don't.
Speaker 1: But I think it's going to be a worldwide thing,
Speaker 1: you know, I always you know, I always thought bicycle
Speaker 1: in the game was better because we had a bifircated
Speaker 1: game and it was just fine, right, you know, of
Speaker 1: course this is a compromise, and a compromise, no one's
Speaker 1: ever happy as a pissed off because they're losing distance,
Speaker 1: even though you know, again it's an American center of debate.
Speaker 1: The evidence of our rollback, which was smaller a big ball,
Speaker 1: was that no one cared when they said that's a
Speaker 1: good idea, and they changed and everyone changed, and you know,
Speaker 1: Peter Thompson objected because his view was, why are we
Speaker 1: blindly following America, which was you know, not long after
Speaker 1: the Vietnam War, which where we blindly followed America into
Speaker 1: the Vietnam Wars. That wasn't a very good idea either,
Speaker 1: but you know, that was a reasonable point of view.
Speaker 1: Why are we just blindly following America? Because because you know,
Speaker 1: there was there were two reasons for the well, the
Speaker 1: small ball was better in the wind, and it was
Speaker 1: the easier to use in the wind. And there's a
Speaker 1: much more wind in Australia and Britain there is in America.
Speaker 1: But my understanding is the Americans began to use the
Speaker 1: big ball because it sat up better on the lush
Speaker 1: off their ways, you know, way back when they changed
Speaker 1: when they made the ball bigger. I don't know when
Speaker 1: they did it, the twenties or thirties. Whenever they did
Speaker 1: it was because the small balls sat down, and you
Speaker 1: know the weather lash of Fellers in America, the small
Speaker 1: ball sat down more so they just made the big
Speaker 1: the ball bigger than make it easy to hit. I
Speaker 1: think that's what happened. Amazing.
Speaker 4: It is a funny, funny chapter that modern golf fans
Speaker 4: have forgot about completely, that we've already gone through this
Speaker 4: and as a sport.
Speaker 1: But well, well that's kind of my big beefy is
Speaker 1: that you know, you get on Twitter and Americans are
Speaker 1: going nut's about this. Well, we all went through this.
Speaker 1: This wasn't that big a deal. But it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's maybe a bad analogy, but when we had a
Speaker 1: gun massacre in nineteen ninety six and thirty five people
Speaker 1: were killed in Port Arthur, the prime minister, the conservative
Speaker 1: prime minister, said that's bad. We're going to buy back
Speaker 1: guns and we're going to restrict people's ability to use
Speaker 1: and buy guns. They won said that's a good idea.
Speaker 1: You and Sandy Hook and if that didn't stop, you know,
Speaker 1: so Americans react much differently in Australian than probably Europeans.
Speaker 5: And geopolitics has entered the chat.
Speaker 6: But hold on, let me, let me, let me just
Speaker 6: jump in here for a second, because, first of all,
Speaker 6: Jim Jeffries and his just having you talk about the
Speaker 6: guns and stuff that.
Speaker 1: Jim Jeffries comedic, brilliant.
Speaker 6: Yeah, is one of the things that I actually watch
Speaker 6: to give myself like therapy over what's happening with guns
Speaker 6: in America. It's like, I just listen to that and
Speaker 6: it gives me at least a little I'm able to
Speaker 6: laugh about a really sad and horrific situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an amendment.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I can't even you can't even do
Speaker 6: him justice. Watch Jim Jeffries on guns. If you haven't
Speaker 6: seen it, I've watched it forty four hundred and seventy
Speaker 6: two times. It's brilliant. The Michael I'm listening, I have
Speaker 6: nothing but respect and admiration for you, your place in
Speaker 6: the game architecture, your opinions. So I've been listening, and
Speaker 6: I and I and I read what you what you write,
Speaker 6: and I and I and I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 6: You're caddying for these young players. But you know, for
Speaker 6: me and and you, we said, yes, I'm American centric
Speaker 6: because I'm in America, and I've been a part of
Speaker 6: the game since, you know, covering the game since y
Speaker 6: five and and have watched the game struggle, ebb and flow, shrink, grow,
Speaker 6: shrink again. Here we are at this height of this
Speaker 6: boom in America with golf. Everybody's coming to the game,
Speaker 6: and we're coming at the game. The game has evolved, right.
Speaker 6: We're just on the phone and did a podcast on
Speaker 6: Jay Blasi redoing a part three course at Golden Gate Park.
Speaker 6: We know gold Hill Park, and Jeff comes and plays
Speaker 6: Per Simmons at a forty five hundred yard par sixty five.
Speaker 6: And that place is booming and it's great and people
Speaker 6: can roll back there or not roll back. And we
Speaker 6: have this, you know, all those oh the game initiatives
Speaker 6: and all those youth initiatives, and all this momentum and
Speaker 6: growth for the amateurs, for the people who pay to
Speaker 6: play is in a really nice, beautiful, healthy place. Now
Speaker 6: some would argue we have too many people out there.
Speaker 6: They're the etiquette is bad, and I feel like over
Speaker 6: time we train them up, we get more people playing
Speaker 6: the game and more people playing the game means more
Speaker 6: good people because the game fosters good people. Right, We
Speaker 6: learn community, camaraderie. We travel to play the game. By traveling,
Speaker 6: you experience different cultures. Different cultures means you get more information.
Speaker 6: More information means less racism, less bullshitty. That relates to
Speaker 6: the other sort of components of general life and the
Speaker 6: way we consume the world around us. Right, all those
Speaker 6: things are why we I think we can all agree
Speaker 6: the common bond here is that we love the game.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 6: You love the game. I love the game. We come
Speaker 6: at it from different perspectives. You're really in the ropes
Speaker 6: of the professional game and seeing these guys go driver
Speaker 6: eight iron from one hundred and seventy and that hurts you, right,
Speaker 6: that hurts you. What what hurts me is the governing
Speaker 6: bodies contradictions of like grow the game, grow the game,
Speaker 6: grow the app hold on, we grew too much, or
Speaker 6: the ball's going too far, and now we're going to
Speaker 6: put a full stop on the people who pay to play. Right,
Speaker 6: people rocking up, and the general perception being that whether
Speaker 6: it's five yards or fifteen yards or zero yards, whatever
Speaker 6: it is, it's just this pr nightmare that they've unleashed
Speaker 6: right now today on the masses, and the game being
Speaker 6: dragged professionally through this horrific situation from a professional standpoint,
Speaker 6: and then throwing the ams into a similar pr nightmare.
Speaker 6: Just feels like it doesn't make sense. Why just the ball?
Speaker 6: Why not shrink the club beds, Why not grow the
Speaker 6: fairway length? You know hard? In fact, the fair ways
Speaker 6: at the old course were running faster than the green. Like,
Speaker 6: there's so many other factors to me to pinpoint the
Speaker 6: ball to say that this is the issue, and this
Speaker 6: is what we're rolling back, and this is how far
Speaker 6: we're rolling back, and we're doing in twenty eight Like
Speaker 6: to me, it's like it's so unnecessary, and that's what
Speaker 6: hurts me.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think the ball is clearly not the issue.
Speaker 1: The balls the solution. The issue is, you know, the
Speaker 1: complete failure of the USCA and the RNA to administer
Speaker 1: someone that controlled the size of the driverhead. When the
Speaker 1: great Big Bertha came out, they should have said that's it,
Speaker 1: you know. So what I think came with the oversized
Speaker 1: driver ahead was long as shafts, because if you put
Speaker 1: a forty three and a half inch shaft in a
Speaker 1: one of the modern drivers that looks completely out of scale,
Speaker 1: looks ridiculous. And if you put a one or today's
Speaker 1: shafts in an oppersimit head, it also looks ridiculous. So
Speaker 1: the scale of the the length of the club, which
Speaker 1: is all contributed to the ball going further, and if
Speaker 1: also the ball runs for there was no run last
Speaker 1: week at this ran open. The ball was not moving
Speaker 1: on the fairway more than five yards, so short, and
Speaker 1: it's always run for Everetts and Andrews, you know, and
Speaker 1: my Canadate one. It's been a lot of it's been
Speaker 1: a COVID injuice boom and two that go. But we
Speaker 1: went through this before and nothing, no one can play,
Speaker 1: nothing happened. The game still the game, you know. I
Speaker 1: arguably the game grew in the in the in the
Speaker 1: eighties when everyone lost twenty five yards and went and
Speaker 1: went to play with the big ball, which was a
Speaker 1: bigger change than this to the average player, was a
Speaker 1: much bigger change to change the size of the ball,
Speaker 1: and the game did just fine. So I don't see
Speaker 1: that the game is predicated around how far the ball goes.
Speaker 1: The other point I would make is that to agree
Speaker 1: with you. The best the best thing the administration could
Speaker 1: do was take away all the restrictions and make a
Speaker 1: ball that went fifty yards further for women and old
Speaker 1: guys and probably half the people who play golf. So
Speaker 1: why why is my wife's mother playing golf with the
Speaker 1: sign boll Roy McElroy. It's ridiculous. Michael Buller goes further
Speaker 1: if you can, well, you know, wouldn't that grow the
Speaker 1: game more than I think what was if you you know,
Speaker 1: for the you know, for the majority of amateurs who
Speaker 1: played the game, if the bull went further, wouldn't the
Speaker 1: game be more fun?
Speaker 6: Yeah? And the other thing is, I think we all
Speaker 6: agreed that bifurcating is the answer. And unfortunately, you know
Speaker 6: that got had declined or denied at the elite level,
Speaker 6: and so therefore here we are. You know, I look
Speaker 6: at pickleball is one of the fastest growing sports in
Speaker 6: the US because it's a mini mini version of tennis.
Speaker 6: We see short course, top golf, part three courses, you know,
Speaker 6: as I pointed out, look at Bandon Dune's the last
Speaker 6: four editions short course, putting course, short and fun course
Speaker 6: in the Sheep Ranch and another short course. Because Kaiser's
Speaker 6: hyper focused on the retail golfer and making sure people
Speaker 6: want to keep coming back. He's creating more short cradle
Speaker 6: at Pinehurst and the short course at Whistling Straits and
Speaker 6: Forest Dunes and over and over and over again. Short
Speaker 6: is happening. The game is evolving. We are making adjustments
Speaker 6: because of time, playability, affordability, accessibility, all those things. It
Speaker 6: feels like they say, oh, not doing anything, wasn't It
Speaker 6: wasn't an option. In fact, as it relates to the
Speaker 6: people who pay to play, I think it was an option.
Speaker 6: And I was saying earlier when we were talking with Bamberger.
Speaker 6: If the USJA is sitting on a polo cash and
Speaker 6: the RNA is sitting on a polo cash, why don't
Speaker 6: they cut out the middleman, not deal with the manufacturers,
Speaker 6: make their own tournament ball, set up a twenty million
Speaker 6: dollar perse that's called the US Open, which is a
Speaker 6: major championship. Say you got to play with this ball
Speaker 6: that we made, and let everything else fall into place.
Speaker 6: People who are going to want to play for that
Speaker 6: kind of money are going to start playing with that
Speaker 6: ball and practicing with it and using it when they
Speaker 6: need to, when designated events. Say we're going to the
Speaker 6: tournament ball. It feels like then you're addressing the rollback
Speaker 6: that needs to happen at the venues that need it
Speaker 6: to happen at, with the players who need it to
Speaker 6: be that need to be impacted, and you're leaving everybody
Speaker 6: else alone.
Speaker 5: I mean that was That's what's crazy.
Speaker 4: That was part of that was the original phrasing of
Speaker 4: this rollback was the local model rule. Like they could
Speaker 4: have this already, would have been done and dusted, it
Speaker 4: would have been announced today, but the tours killed it,
Speaker 4: like yes.
Speaker 1: So so it's it's a case of be careful what
Speaker 1: you wish for. You know, it's the manufacturer's fault. If
Speaker 1: Wally Ulon whoever the bust of Toddles is right now
Speaker 1: it said, this is a good idea. We're very happy
Speaker 1: to make a ball for the top level of the game.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't want to bother it, cut it,
Speaker 1: so so we'll support this. Instead they kick and screaming,
Speaker 1: go nuts about it, like like every every like every
Speaker 1: lobby group, like the cigarette companies are, the alcohol companies are,
Speaker 1: the gambling companies. Certainly in Australia, I argue against everything
Speaker 1: that I think is going to affect their bottom line.
Speaker 1: So the us and I said, okay, we'll do it
Speaker 1: for everyone.
Speaker 6: Well they are they in fairness to them, in fairness
Speaker 6: to them, and I'm not paid by any equipment company, right,
Speaker 6: we have no ties to any equipment company. But in
Speaker 6: fairness to let's say titleist. If some restaurant is making
Speaker 6: really good chicken and they've worked hard at their recipe
Speaker 6: and they're making the best chicken in town, and someone
Speaker 6: rocks up and says, sorry, no more selling that type
Speaker 6: of chicken. You're going to have to use this type
Speaker 6: of chicken. And they go, well, wait a minute. We've
Speaker 6: spent years and we've got this chef that specifically makes
Speaker 6: this famous recipe, and you're going to take I mean,
Speaker 6: they are trying to make a living. And that's why
Speaker 6: I'm saying to the USGA and the RNA, then get
Speaker 6: in the ball business and make your own ball. Don't
Speaker 6: be beholden to the manufacturers. If you really want to
Speaker 6: govern the game. You kind of missed the boat you lost.
Speaker 6: The ship has sailed, and you know twenty years ago
Speaker 6: you kind of missed. Now you can take matters in
Speaker 6: your own hands because you've made a bunch of money
Speaker 6: off of all those guys hitting at that far, this long,
Speaker 6: this many times. You've made the money on on on
Speaker 6: the tournaments that you hold. Put it into your own
Speaker 6: ball and take control of your own situation and pay
Speaker 6: for the price. Pay the price that you missed twenty
Speaker 6: years ago by not doing what you should have been
Speaker 6: done back then.
Speaker 1: So who's going to use that ball? The European too,
Speaker 1: the Japanese too, this is African too, these trying to it. Well,
Speaker 1: then it's just a complete miss because you know the
Speaker 1: players are going to go to they're going to play
Speaker 1: the West Test, the Classical or whatever. Though, and then
Speaker 1: the week after they got to the USR and they
Speaker 1: got to change bulls when they go they're going to
Speaker 1: hide doing that.
Speaker 6: In baseball, Michael, one week you play at Finway. In
Speaker 6: the next next week you play at Kamiski, or the
Speaker 6: next week you go to Petco and you got to
Speaker 6: play different length of of of you know, little different
Speaker 6: lighting situations, you know, different court. Every golf course creates
Speaker 6: their own set of different you know, it's a venue.
Speaker 6: It changes all the time.
Speaker 1: Like my mind would be the histor the evidence of
Speaker 1: when the game last had that situation when players would
Speaker 1: come to Australia go to Britain to live for the
Speaker 1: open and switch balls. They hated it. In fact, Jack
Speaker 1: was the one I think he said to the RNA
Speaker 1: in ninth you know in the early seventies, we need
Speaker 1: to go and we all need to be start playing
Speaker 1: the same ball. So in seventy four they switched to
Speaker 1: the big ball. So you know, players players switching back
Speaker 1: and forward is going to be a nightmare, I think.
Speaker 6: But you're still dealing with the small subset who get
Speaker 6: paid to play, and not affecting the people who pay
Speaker 6: to play, which is really at the base of all
Speaker 6: of this. This is a business. This is a game
Speaker 6: people choose to participate in in their off time after
Speaker 6: they're after they're done with work.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's true, but it goes back to my original point.
Speaker 1: When they rolled the ball back in Australia and Britain,
Speaker 1: no one gave up becaus the ball went shorter. No,
Speaker 1: golves are much better game than you know. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to play if my ball goes shorter. I mean,
Speaker 1: either move up a tea or you know whatever. But
Speaker 1: you know, golf is not about how fare your driver go.
Speaker 1: I don't think if the only reason you're playing golf
Speaker 1: is because your ball goes, and what's the what's the
Speaker 1: average gamer on its five yards ten yards, He's not
Speaker 1: even going to notice it really move up a tea
Speaker 1: or whatever. But the game, the evidence of the last
Speaker 1: time this happened was well, the evidence was the game
Speaker 1: was just fine. Well why you do it? Because one,
Speaker 1: because the ball goes way too far, not for just
Speaker 1: the players on the PJ Tour or the European Tour,
Speaker 1: but for the average am. I mean Lucas Michelle who
Speaker 1: works for me one of the US metameter a few
Speaker 1: years ago. Every hole of Metro is pretty much a
Speaker 1: driver and a wedge for him. And it's a long
Speaker 1: golf course. The ball goes and there are two other
Speaker 1: things that no one ever talks about. Well, some talk
Speaker 1: about the problem with the ball has never been hit
Speaker 1: further off line. It goes miles sideways. Now with for
Speaker 1: good for strong young men who not on the PJ Tour,
Speaker 1: but it can s win the club at a decent speed.
Speaker 1: But when the club gets inside and the faces open,
Speaker 1: there are boundary problems that we as architects are completely unsolvable.
Speaker 1: Now the ball goes way further offline than it ever did,
Speaker 1: so that's a problem. And the other thing I think
Speaker 1: that having catered at the European Tour school and watch
Speaker 1: the Australian Tour and watch others struggle to get on
Speaker 1: a tour outside of Australia despite being probably the best
Speaker 1: young player down here, is you look around the professional
Speaker 1: game and there are way too many young kids trying
Speaker 1: to make a living when there are way too few jobs.
Speaker 1: And the more difficult the game was to play, you
Speaker 1: would weed the kids out h aren't good enough before
Speaker 1: they get two players pros. There are way too many
Speaker 1: kids from make a living out of this game. And
Speaker 1: when you know, I keep saying when I played, you know,
Speaker 1: back and back in the day. I don't want to
Speaker 1: sound like an old grump who just wants to go
Speaker 1: back to the way it was. But the great thing
Speaker 1: about if the Simmon driver and a blader ball was
Speaker 1: it always found the best player in the world of
Speaker 1: at the Open Championship. Because if you couldn't hit a
Speaker 1: persimmon driver and a blader ball through the wind, you
Speaker 1: didn't have a hope in the Open. So you look
Speaker 1: at the guys who won that tournament. Once the Americans
Speaker 1: started playing, were the guys who won that tournament always
Speaker 1: the best, the guy who was playing the best or
Speaker 1: the best part in the world. And seventy three was
Speaker 1: why scoff in seventy six it was miller Jack was
Speaker 1: always there at Trevino seven at the end of the seventies,
Speaker 1: you know, so you know, you really had to hit
Speaker 1: that ball properly. And since then we've seen the game
Speaker 1: get way more fun and way better for the people.
Speaker 1: You care about that and the people I care about.
Speaker 1: We all care about the average player. The driver's easier
Speaker 1: to hit, the hybrid's better, revelation, laft wedges have been
Speaker 1: a revelation, the fact that we got away from Ballada
Speaker 1: so you could buy an affordable ball that wouldn't cut
Speaker 1: and it would spin, but it flew better through the wind.
Speaker 1: I mean, so many things that have happened in the
Speaker 1: last forty years because of technology that made the game
Speaker 1: easier to play. And that's a great that's been a
Speaker 1: eight thing for golf and the growth of the game.
Speaker 1: But the unintended consequences. There are thousands of young kids
Speaker 1: who all think they're good enough to be pros. Now
Speaker 1: they're all out there and there aren't enough jobs for them,
Speaker 1: and it's a it's not a tragedy like Guards as
Speaker 1: a tragedy or is, you know, but it's a tragedy
Speaker 1: in a game, and that these kids they're never going
Speaker 1: to make a living out and the quicker. You can
Speaker 1: weed those kids out of the top level because they're
Speaker 1: not good enough to play, but the equipment has given
Speaker 1: a sense that they're good enough because the ball goes
Speaker 1: a long way, they shoot load scores. If they can't
Speaker 1: at a one on like Jack and gregor at the
Speaker 1: one on, they can need a hybrid club. There are
Speaker 1: thousands of them out there, and if you made the
Speaker 1: game marginally more difficult to play for them, it would
Speaker 1: stop this chantage of thousands of kids out there trying
Speaker 1: to play.
Speaker 4: But even even as it relates to the guys on tour,
Speaker 4: it would be a more interesting game where the driver
Speaker 4: edge to me is a problem as just a consumer,
Speaker 4: it just gets boring well.
Speaker 1: Well, and people are turning off the page. I can't
Speaker 1: tell them. It feels that I don't watch anyone. What's boring?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it really, But again, Michael, there the PGA Tour
Speaker 6: is in control of their product. This is a product,
Speaker 6: you know, the governing bodies just because they're going to
Speaker 6: say whatever they're saying, the PGA Tour is still going
Speaker 6: to do what it does. The PGA of America is
Speaker 6: going to do what it does. Like I still don't
Speaker 6: see how or what like there is. You know, the
Speaker 6: governing body of the NFL is the NFL. The governing
Speaker 6: body of Major League Baseball is Major League Baseball. The
Speaker 6: governing body of the PGA Tour is the PGA Tour.
Speaker 6: They they're trying to sell tickets, and if they have
Speaker 6: identified a problem with what their product is, they need
Speaker 6: to make changes based on you know, the the the eyeballs,
Speaker 6: how they broadcast the tournament, like the PJ Tour is
Speaker 6: a lot of issues. But like hitting the ball to
Speaker 6: or or you know, having people rock up and see
Speaker 6: someone hit a two hundred and eighty five yard drive
Speaker 6: versus a three hundred and fifteen yard drive, I don't
Speaker 6: know if that's going to solve their problem.
Speaker 1: They got real rules, but the different Yeah, but the
Speaker 1: difference between baseball and football and those other sports is
Speaker 1: none of those players are paid as endorses for the
Speaker 1: Baseball are using or the football are using. Every golfer
Speaker 1: is a paid endorser of an equipment company. The players
Speaker 1: have a huge voice on the PJ Tour. The equipment
Speaker 1: companies don't want the ball roll back, and the players
Speaker 1: are just spooking their message, that's all they're doing. And
Speaker 1: players who I know Ogilvy was without throwing him in
Speaker 1: the mess, was that, Jeff, we're not paying it to
Speaker 1: talk about the ball. Stop talking about the ball. And
Speaker 1: he stopped talking about the ball. So the players, their
Speaker 1: opinions are owned and bought by the manufacturers. And Rory
Speaker 1: and Tiger are the only two guys who are big
Speaker 1: enough to come out and say what they what they
Speaker 1: want to say, because what's the Bridge not going to
Speaker 1: sign a Tiger?
Speaker 6: Well yeah, well because they've gotten rich nothing, but they've
Speaker 6: gotten rich enough to be able to have that independence,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But well, the players have it, and and you know,
Speaker 1: going back to the chicken analogy, titlists have always made
Speaker 1: the best ball, and and they've all and they've developed
Speaker 1: the naming golf that they're not going to sell one
Speaker 1: less golf ball if the ball goes shorter because one
Speaker 1: they've always made their best ball and in the last
Speaker 1: seventy years that they've created an amazing brand. So people
Speaker 1: aren't going to stop buying titless balls because the titlest
Speaker 1: ball goes shorter. But I make a difference step bottom line.
Speaker 6: Well, if it's illegal. If it's illegal, they'll stop buying it.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, in theory, I mean, I could
Speaker 6: see their point. They've if you go to the ball
Speaker 6: factory and you see what they do and put into
Speaker 6: the R and D and how many decades of money
Speaker 6: they've spent to b number one, in which you know
Speaker 6: they've earned it quite frankly, I mean, and then you know,
Speaker 6: and then you blur that, you blur the marketplace, you
Speaker 6: and you bring everybody back to a starting point in
Speaker 6: which you're you know, yeah, you're going to have a lawsuit.
Speaker 6: And again why you know, of course I.
Speaker 4: Would see I would I would argue that that just
Speaker 4: this is Tylis to be the most popular maker of
Speaker 4: the new ball if people trust them and they've got
Speaker 4: the R and D, we'll see.
Speaker 6: But you can see where you can see their argument
Speaker 6: saying you know, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: So so here's a question, Matt. You know, we agree
Speaker 1: that this is a compromise, bifurcation would have been better.
Speaker 1: So in golf, since Ted Ray was a boy, Sam
Speaker 1: sne Jack Nicholas, who was next? I was loved, probably Greg,
Speaker 1: John Day, you know Tiger Rory. Now it's Gordon Sergeant
Speaker 1: So who flies at what three seventy five? Whatever his
Speaker 1: ball spit is? So you know the history of that,
Speaker 1: The history tells us the freaking one generation has always
Speaker 1: been the Norman the next. So what so is it
Speaker 1: okay in twenty years when everyone's in its three hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy five yards? I mean, what happens to the game.
Speaker 1: What's the point of a golf course at that level?
Speaker 1: If the ball's going three outre and seventy five yards,
Speaker 1: there is there is no point to it. There is
Speaker 1: no point to golf if every every part forwards are
Speaker 1: driving a wedge and you can't keep extending teas you can't.
Speaker 1: So you know, I think this is a this is
Speaker 1: the right decision because the freak always becomes the normal.
Speaker 1: And you know people are going to say, well, that's
Speaker 1: not going to happen now, Well, no one thought that
Speaker 1: people were going to hit the falls filed John Daily
Speaker 1: when he came out at Crooked Stick. No one could
Speaker 1: believe how far he hit the ball. Ship there are
Speaker 1: women who with the ball further than that now, yeah,
Speaker 1: there are five women on the LPJ tour. I think
Speaker 1: it was statistically longer than Greg Norman. Was it nine
Speaker 1: eighty five? You know it was there a problem with
Speaker 1: the game, and now father Ball went in nine eighty five.
Speaker 1: No one thought it was a problem. You know, there
Speaker 1: was a fair It was a fair fight between the
Speaker 1: golf course and the playout. It's now a completely unfair
Speaker 1: fight because the golf courses, you know, it's early in Australia,
Speaker 1: they're completely defenseless, you know. And the worst thing about
Speaker 1: playing the old course now is that because I catered
Speaker 1: at Royal Stinkport's and the unqualify there. The worst thing
Speaker 1: about playing those golf courses you walk back eighty yards
Speaker 1: through every team, not every team, but most of them,
Speaker 1: because that's the way they've resolved the issue of the
Speaker 1: ball going so far.
Speaker 6: I think you need you caddy for too many good players.
Speaker 6: I think that you'd walk off on the third hole
Speaker 6: if you caddied for me anyway. But I think you
Speaker 6: need to caddy for more people like me who really
Speaker 6: suck at the game, Matt.
Speaker 1: Every Saturday I play with three guys who are really
Speaker 1: bad at golf. So I know, you know, I know
Speaker 1: how I watch people play all the time. I mean,
Speaker 1: I you know, we walk around golf courses. The funniest thing.
Speaker 1: We're walking around a golf course the other day and
Speaker 1: there were two women playing. You guys walk ahead. They
Speaker 1: just hate you watching him play golf. Parish to what
Speaker 1: you know, I see lots of bad players, don't you know.
Speaker 1: We deal with them all the time. I know I do.
Speaker 1: I have difficult the game is but yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: we're talking about two you know, we're talking about two
Speaker 1: entirely different games. You know that, you know, which is
Speaker 1: why you need two sets. I think you need two
Speaker 1: sets of rules. Yeah, but you know, this is the man.
Speaker 1: This is on the manufacturers and the PJA too, because
Speaker 1: they said we're not going to you know, the game
Speaker 1: shouldn't be bifecated. So you said, okay, it's going to
Speaker 1: be done for everybody. So you know, but because because
Speaker 1: because doing nothing is not an option, and historically Gordon Sergeant,
Speaker 1: he's going to be the norm, because that's what's always happened.
Speaker 1: And why is it going to be any different now?
Speaker 1: You know, there are a bunch of fourteen and fifteen
Speaker 1: year old kids in there who are being told if
Speaker 1: you want to compete as a player on the PGA too,
Speaker 1: you have to win the club at one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty miles an hour. Your balls bed's got to be
Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety miles an hour. So what's going
Speaker 1: to happen? That's what they're going to do, because that's
Speaker 1: what humans do.
Speaker 6: You know what's going to happen. They're all going to
Speaker 6: try to swing for one hundred and thirty miles an hour,
Speaker 6: and they're going to hurt their backs, and you know,
Speaker 6: the will Zala Tauruses of the world, the rollback happens
Speaker 6: naturally and organically because no one like can sustain that
Speaker 6: type of physical activity at anything beyond your mid to
Speaker 6: late twenties. You know, it's going to happen naturally. You're
Speaker 6: going to have a younger group of people who come up.
Speaker 6: If the game allows for these people to your back
Speaker 6: to your other point of so many people trying to
Speaker 6: get in and get it, get a piece of the
Speaker 6: cash that's floating around in the professional game, because that's
Speaker 6: the big carrot. And why all those thousands of people
Speaker 6: are trying to achieve that elite level is because there's
Speaker 6: money to be made and only and more to your point,
Speaker 6: there's only small chunk of people who are actually getting
Speaker 6: access to that money. So that's again part of the
Speaker 6: professional you know, dilemma. But not many Gordon sergeants are
Speaker 6: going to be able to swing one hundred and thirty
Speaker 6: mile hour swing speeds or drive at three hundred and
Speaker 6: seventy yards for more than like one two, three, four five.
Speaker 6: How long is he going to be able to do it?
Speaker 6: And the other thing is is that those people that
Speaker 6: are swinging that lard are not just going out and
Speaker 6: walking away and winning by ten shots.
Speaker 1: Which is the next issue, which this is not about scoring.
Speaker 1: This is not about scoring. You can distort the dimensions
Speaker 1: of it of any golf course in the world to
Speaker 1: make even part win a tournament. Just do it. Seven
Speaker 1: didn't say you just have those fairways, I'll win every week.
Speaker 1: So but sure some of them get it, but not
Speaker 1: all of them will get injured. You know, there's bound
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five mother Wake. And you know,
Speaker 1: the other point about this is do we want to
Speaker 1: drive and what we have one? You know, do you
Speaker 1: want to drive a Sam Snead out of the game,
Speaker 1: who was for three consecutive he is in his sixties
Speaker 1: finish in the top five in the PG Championship. Do
Speaker 1: we never want to see that ever again? Or Jack
Speaker 1: Nichols winning the masses at forty six, or do you
Speaker 1: want to I don't think.
Speaker 6: That's actually a great look for professional golf to be
Speaker 6: total Well.
Speaker 1: No, I think it's amazing that.
Speaker 6: I think a big, old chubby guy walking off off
Speaker 6: the couch and going and winning a major championship.
Speaker 1: Well, yea, but Sam Steve was arguably the greatest athter
Speaker 1: who ever played the game. The guy was a great
Speaker 1: enough player, and his sixties definished the top five in
Speaker 1: a major championship three years in a row. Well, I
Speaker 1: think it was ninth one year, and then third and
Speaker 1: fifth and whatever he was. It was a fricking amazing achievement.
Speaker 1: You know, do we want to kill that? But you
Speaker 1: know we've killed the Corey Paven and Calvin Pete out
Speaker 1: of the game. Those you know. You know, if someone
Speaker 1: counted the ball at crazy distance, well I consider a
Speaker 1: crazy distance. They can't play anymore. I mean, why do
Speaker 1: you want to drive those players out of the game.
Speaker 1: How much better was the game for the variety it had.
Speaker 1: Now it's just all about it. You know, if you
Speaker 1: can't hit fair enough, you can't play. Corey Pavin couldn't
Speaker 1: itIt far enough, but he could play because you know,
Speaker 1: last I looked, there were thirteen other clubs in the
Speaker 1: bag and he was really good with him. If you
Speaker 1: can't drive the ball X distance, you can't compete. It's
Speaker 1: a horrendous look for the game.
Speaker 6: In a way, we're kind of agreeing, you know, we
Speaker 6: keep landing on an agreement that you know, a bifurcation
Speaker 6: would have been the best scenario. Manufacturers, I see their point.
Speaker 6: It's a business they're making money.
Speaker 1: Way with then I just don't see that point because
Speaker 1: because I actually don't see that point, because because if
Speaker 1: some rocket science technolo I just can't went to the
Speaker 1: boss of titles tomorrow and said I've figured out how
Speaker 1: to make a ball that goes four hundred yards it's legal,
Speaker 1: they would switch their machines tomorrow to make that ball.
Speaker 1: I don't give a damn about the consequences on golf courses,
Speaker 1: on the speed of play, on the boundary problems who
Speaker 1: would affect They couldn't care less, and it's not their
Speaker 1: job to care care it's not their job to care.
Speaker 1: But it's the administrator's job to care about how golf
Speaker 1: courses play, how the ball goes offline, you know the
Speaker 1: consequences of the distance. It's it's their job to care.
Speaker 1: And you know, they've decided that four hundred yards is
Speaker 1: not the line on the standards three hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: or three hundred and forty, So so what point is
Speaker 1: it too far?
Speaker 6: But again, let's go back to that point about how
Speaker 6: in other sports people don't get bit paid to play
Speaker 6: that specific bat or play that specific ball, because essentially
Speaker 6: Major League Baseball has a ball that everybody plays and
Speaker 6: a bat and that has to conform. There's you know,
Speaker 6: I think there are different versions of a wooden bat
Speaker 6: or companies that make wooden bats that players can choose from,
Speaker 6: So why not Why don't then the governing bodies would
Speaker 6: you be a fan of if today's announcement was the
Speaker 6: USG and the RNA we're going to go into development
Speaker 6: with in in their own ball and maybe even like
Speaker 6: it could even expand beyond that, essentially to say this
Speaker 6: is these are our rules and regulations to play in
Speaker 6: our tournament. We're putting up twenty million, and let the
Speaker 6: chips Forllward. They may.
Speaker 1: Aunt Tata. That's kind of say get out of that business.
Speaker 1: Why are you in that business?
Speaker 6: They can't say that anyway. They're saying that anyway.
Speaker 1: No, well, I think the manufacturers, like the ball I
Speaker 1: don't see what the wash of the and I in
Speaker 1: the USA and in the business of bull Man. If
Speaker 1: they're in the business of running torments, they're not in
Speaker 1: the business of manufacturing golf polls.
Speaker 6: But you eliminate that whole other thing that we're talking about,
Speaker 6: which is the dilemma, which is the manufacturers are paying
Speaker 6: players to play, and therefore the players are going to
Speaker 6: reject the bifurcation. So in order let's again stay let's
Speaker 6: I feel like we should stay focused on the subset
Speaker 6: of the game that it truly impacts, which is such
Speaker 6: a small percentage, and let's stay hyper focused on that
Speaker 6: and continue to make adjustments that impact that group. But
Speaker 6: be the minute you start making adjustments that impact the
Speaker 6: people who pay to play, in which the game is
Speaker 6: already hard, it's for them. No matter what we do.
Speaker 6: It makes no sense in the minute it goes to
Speaker 6: the masses, it makes no sense to me.
Speaker 1: Well, two points, that would be the gun. One of
Speaker 1: the game's never been easier.
Speaker 6: To play, but it's still hard.
Speaker 1: It's still hard, and it's hard because it's hard because
Speaker 1: it's a game of it's hard because it's a game
Speaker 1: of technique, and it's hard to master the technique. And
Speaker 1: the average player, the average player plays at a level
Speaker 1: they play because of their technique. You know, if you're
Speaker 1: a twenty handicap player, it's because you've got a twenty
Speaker 1: handicap swing playing and a twenty handicap grip and a
Speaker 1: twenty handicap swing twenty seven fifteen for whatever level it is,
Speaker 1: you play at that level because it's a game of technique.
Speaker 1: So it's you know, so I've forgot that, I've lost
Speaker 1: my point.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: My other point would be people make the analogy of
Speaker 1: you know, running tracks and baseball tracks and cricket fields.
Speaker 1: They're not pieces of architecture. Golf course is unique. A
Speaker 1: golf course is unique in sports is it's a piece
Speaker 1: of architecture designed and intended to test a wide variety
Speaker 1: of skills and to make holes that ask different questions.
Speaker 1: And until this generation, if you built, if an architect
Speaker 1: built a hole that was a four hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: yards Part four, he could reasonably expect a hole to
Speaker 1: test driving a long line or driving a mid iron,
Speaker 1: and he built the green that was appropriate for the
Speaker 1: shot that was being played to it. Not always, but generally,
Speaker 1: you know, there were great holes with greens that are
Speaker 1: wildly the road hole Andrews is not is not an
Speaker 1: appropriate green for a long line approach. It's the best
Speaker 1: hole in the world, and it's an exception that proves
Speaker 1: the rule. But you know, golf courses asked those questions.
Speaker 1: They don't at the top level, they don't ask those
Speaker 1: questions anymore. In fact, there are a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: holes that were designed with greens that were built to
Speaker 1: receive mid the long line so now now played with wedges.
Speaker 6: So there they weren't designed to roll at eleven on
Speaker 6: the stemp or twelve on the stemp either. They weren't.
Speaker 6: There's that, like, you know, there's a lot of other you.
Speaker 1: Know, well, well that's that's awesome, but that's also true,
Speaker 1: and that comes back. But you know, fundamentally, there are
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of greens who were built for long
Speaker 1: lines that are now players in short lines too. So
Speaker 1: the game's out of scale. It's and we're talking about
Speaker 1: at the top level. It's not just PJ Tour plays.
Speaker 1: It's there's a whole you know, there's there are thousands
Speaker 1: of people, thousands of great amateurs who they all hit
Speaker 1: the ball forever, and golf courses don't play the way
Speaker 1: they used to play, the way that they were intended
Speaker 1: to play, the way the great minds of you know,
Speaker 1: Bobby Jones, and again you know he's going back to
Speaker 1: the past, the way Jones and mackenzie and the great
Speaker 1: minds thought, you know, George Thomas and all the great
Speaker 1: architects that the tests they were making, the way the
Speaker 1: game they should the way they saw the game playing,
Speaker 1: and the way it should be played. You know, that's
Speaker 1: completely gone and lost. And you know, is Wally youle
Speaker 1: On a better mind than Alistair McKenzie or Bobby Jones,
Speaker 1: well or whoever's the boss that time. All they care
Speaker 1: about is their bottom line and that perception of how
Speaker 1: this will hurt their business. Now, I didn't think of
Speaker 1: them like a damn but a difference said business, because
Speaker 1: they've always made the best golf ball, and they've developed
Speaker 1: an amazing brand payple of a great loyalty to it.
Speaker 1: They're always gonna buy Tatness bul whether it goes two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty turing eighty three hundred and thirty yards,
Speaker 1: They're still gonna buy their golf ball.
Speaker 4: I gotta jump in here. I need to catch a plane.
Speaker 4: I'm coming to see you, Michael. We've been podcasting for
Speaker 4: over three hours straight here.
Speaker 1: Uh, they'll fed up with that.
Speaker 4: I'm not fed up. I'm just I'm just out of time.
Speaker 4: I got to start getting to the airport, but but
Speaker 4: very quickly. Let's just tee it up. So Michael, I
Speaker 4: am coming your way. I'm heading to San Francsco Airport
Speaker 4: here to fly to Melbourne to the sand Bell Invitational.
Speaker 4: I can't wait. I've been covering the tournament the last
Speaker 4: two years from afar. Now I'll be in the dirt,
Speaker 4: at least in the sand. Tell the listeners why this
Speaker 4: tournament is special and what it means to you personally.
Speaker 1: Well, we started off in Covid. Quickly the kids said
Speaker 1: no where to play, and Jeff Ogley and I started
Speaker 1: to think all the game, which was it was an
Speaker 1: eighteen and thirty six old just chance to play, and
Speaker 1: they started playing competitive golf and it was fantastic and
Speaker 1: you know they embraced it. Now you know they play
Speaker 1: most Mondays and sam Belt Tormentsort evolved out of that
Speaker 1: where we went to originally kens and Heath Peninsula, kingswood
Speaker 1: yar in Ryal, Melbourne. So can we have a day
Speaker 1: at each of your courses to run a four round tournament.
Speaker 1: We want about thirty five or thirty six pros and
Speaker 1: the same number of kids, so men and women, boys
Speaker 1: and girls. We've got an eleven year old playing this year,
Speaker 1: a twelve year old, a bunch of teenagers like thirteen fourty.
Speaker 1: Emilia Harris who won last year as fifteen. She's like
Speaker 1: a veteran. I'm just looking at I'm just looking at
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour score. Robin Troy is now leading at
Speaker 1: twenty seven hunder par. She's leaving the LPGA Tour school
Speaker 1: that she looks like she's going to win through fifteen
Speaker 1: holes to come and play. Nicholas Colsart is playing Cam Davis,
Speaker 1: who is amazing, is a defending champion. Jeff og he's
Speaker 1: obviously playing. Elvis is playing sother a bunch of great
Speaker 1: young and old pros, young amateurs. It's free to get in.
Speaker 1: We play a different course every day. Can't tell you
Speaker 1: how many really good young Australian plays send me emails
Speaker 1: pleading to play, and I'm sorry, guys, we've only got
Speaker 1: thirty six bots and I wish I could fit you
Speaker 1: in and send me an email earlier and yeah. So
Speaker 1: it's a really cool tournament. It's free to get in.
Speaker 1: And you can see Cameron Davis playing with a thirteen
Speaker 1: year old girl. I mean last year he played the
Speaker 1: last two rounds with Mamachah Kabori, who's Kazuma Kabori's brother sister.
Speaker 1: He had a driver on the seventeenth hole, a peninsula
Speaker 1: king do. I fought and hold it and beat her
Speaker 1: by one shot, so she's a driver off the deck.
Speaker 1: It was amazing shots. So the women play off different
Speaker 1: teas and they play a different par so the men play.
Speaker 1: So we cut the men's part down at seventy on
Speaker 1: not exactly but essentially seventy on Royal Melbourne and the area.
Speaker 1: Finchill out the women's past seventy two and the winning
Speaker 1: score is relative to power if that makes sense, does it?
Speaker 1: So it's a really cool event and this is the
Speaker 1: third year and it's gonna be great fun to watch
Speaker 1: out evolves.
Speaker 6: It's really really quick. Hugh Foley, our friend from Ireland,
Speaker 6: a dear friend, is playing, which is amazing and has
Speaker 6: quite the resume. Second in the US Midam two years
Speaker 6: ago and on the north and South of Ireland. Not
Speaker 6: done since. I think Darren Clerk did it way back when.
Speaker 6: So you got Hugh Foley. But Jeff flew out from
Speaker 6: Melbourne to play in the Wishbone Brawl and on the
Speaker 6: driving range again not to not to talk for Jeff,
Speaker 6: and we're going to run a clip of his about
Speaker 6: the sand belt. But I love the idea that part
Speaker 6: of the reason, and I'm sure you can, you can,
Speaker 6: you know, emphasize this. But what Jeff loves about this
Speaker 6: is that as a kid he would have loved an
Speaker 6: opportunity to play with the pros, to pick their brains,
Speaker 6: to see them, you know, shoulder to shoulder, and watch
Speaker 6: how they carry themselves, how they practice, how they get ready,
Speaker 6: how how they perform under pressure, And that to me
Speaker 6: is also a really cool subset of this is that
Speaker 6: that's what you guys are providing, is this sort of
Speaker 6: this opportunity to sort of compete together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well well that's not so much the subset,
Speaker 1: and it's the whole point of it. You know, it's
Speaker 1: the mentoring thing. It's like, you know, the sounds for
Speaker 1: you Amelia Harris when she was thirtained, so sit down
Speaker 1: with Petafala who was sixty years old, talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: how did you play that shot? How do I prepare it?
Speaker 1: Because Chok is the most rabid preparer for pro golf
Speaker 1: ever and Sevy one said, the only man with a
Speaker 1: better shortcame on the European than me is Peter Fowler,
Speaker 1: so you know, and you know she was with him
Speaker 1: for an hour and a half and he took it
Speaker 1: down the chipping grind and he showed her how to
Speaker 1: play different shots and so that's the whole point of
Speaker 1: the whole thing. And you know, it was the mentoring thing,
Speaker 1: and it's a really cool to The clubs are great
Speaker 1: because it's not too much of an inconvenience for the
Speaker 1: members because we only spend one day at them. There
Speaker 1: are no grandstands, TV towers that you know, we don't
Speaker 1: have to pay them any money for the course. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's me. It's an amazing thing. And Lloyd Cole's in
Speaker 1: Melbourne on Wednesday night, so Alan, you're coming to see
Speaker 1: Lloyd Cole on Wednesday night.
Speaker 5: I think I look forward to it, So.
Speaker 1: That'll be fun. So Lloyd's of course a complete golf
Speaker 1: nutt and Australians love Lloyd Cole. So he's playing in
Speaker 1: town on Wednesday night. So we'll see how many of
Speaker 1: the players want to come. Most of them have probably
Speaker 1: never heard of Lloyd Cole. But anyway, now and all
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 6: Michael, thank you for your time and and thank you
Speaker 6: for your perspective and all that you do for the game.
Speaker 6: And obviously a big like I said, big fan of
Speaker 6: your your opinion and your architecture. And I've been doing
Speaker 6: some things on what you guys have been doing. And
Speaker 6: you've got a great team and uh, and so keep
Speaker 6: up all the great work. And I'm I'm uh. You
Speaker 6: know at some point you know that at the core
Speaker 6: of all this is is we love the game. And
Speaker 6: I hope someday to come down to the Sand Belt
Speaker 6: and uh and to walk some fairways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to come and play it and say it and
Speaker 1: look forward to see you Alan.
Speaker 5: All right, thank you, Michael, Thank you, Michael.
Speaker 4: Okay, well, Michael Clayton and I will continue this conversation
Speaker 4: in person in Melbourne while I'm covering the sand Belt Invitational.
Speaker 4: You can follow all that on Firepit Collective dot com.
Speaker 4: There'll be daily stories, probably some more podcasts. We'll be
Speaker 4: doing some fun stuff on social along the way, on
Speaker 4: my handles and of course on the Firepit handles.
Speaker 5: So thanks to listening.
Speaker 4: For those of you who went from Bamberger to Clayton,
Speaker 4: you're the lunatic fringe of golf fans and we love
Speaker 4: you and we thank you for your support. Matt, always
Speaker 4: a pleasure. I wish I had as much passion for
Speaker 4: anything in my life as you do for the anti
Speaker 4: rollback arguments. It's impressive.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh.
Speaker 4: But anyway, good stuff. Thanks for having us safe. Yeah,
Speaker 4: thank you, thank you, and that's the end of this podcast. Goodbye.
Speaker 3: I'll bet big and I played the wind made a
Speaker 3: fortune when my ship game and I ran the table
Speaker 3: and never thought I could fall down.
Speaker 2: The win hit me lack of canon the ball and
Speaker 2: now I can't shake this losing stream. Every road I
Speaker 2: take is a dead end street.
Speaker 6: I got dat in my head.
Speaker 2: Can you jo not to think what I'm thinking about now?
Speaker 2: Kind of thoughts in my head.
Speaker 3: I can't get them out. Trying not to think what
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about