1 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: What's the point of a golf course at that level? 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 1: It's a bull's going three hundred and seventy five yards. 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: There is there is no point to it. There's no 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: point to golf if every every powfowards are driving a 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: wage and you can't keep extending tease. You can't. So 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: you know this is a this is the right decision. 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: I got daouncing my head can't get him and not 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: the thing what I'm thinking about, not counting bouncing my head. 9 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 3: Can't get him out, not the thing what I'm thinking about. 10 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 4: Hello, this is Alan Schipnook back for another Fire Drill podcast. 11 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 4: We started talking roll back, Matt Janella, Michael Bamberger and myself. 12 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 4: We ended that because Michael Clayton called in from Melbourne. 13 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 4: You know Michael Clayton as the core architect of barn 14 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 4: Google Dunes and Neo Classic down in Tasmania, long time 15 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 4: tour player in Australia and in Europe, a great thinker 16 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 4: about the game. And without further ado, let's go to cleats. 17 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 4: Who's coming in hot. 18 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: Well, I've been on about it for twenty years, which 19 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: is about as long as everyone else has since the 20 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: pro v when it there's a whole bunch of issues 21 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: it for the best players. It fundamentally changed the way 22 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: golf courses play because the ball goes so far. So 23 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: if you'd said that to Alison McKenzie one hundred years 24 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: ago that in one hundred years time, the vast majority 25 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: of power fours were going to be only driving eight 26 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,199 Speaker 1: irons and the other six holes were six h seven, 27 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: I had two five irons. Now, if you'd said to 28 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: the great minds of golf of one hundred years ago 29 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: that this is what the game is going to toscend into, 30 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: is a succession of massive drives and short irons, that 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: it would be horrified at that because that wasn't the 32 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: way they thought the test of golf. That wasn't what 33 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: they saw the questions of golf course asking that they 34 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: all assumed and thought. The golf course would ask occasionally 35 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: that the part four was a test of a driving 36 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: a wood, lots of long lines, chilling has to win foot, 37 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: you know, it was about drives and long lines, and 38 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: that has largely completely gone from the professional game. Mike 39 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: One asked Rory three the Scottish Open, when was the 40 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: last time you hit more than a six hundred a 41 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: part four I don't remember. You know, it's clearly a 42 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: ludicrous situation when when a golf course Arctic and a 43 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: golf course can't ask the best players in the world 44 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: is at more than a six hunder or part forever 45 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: and it really happens. 46 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 5: So the question now is. 47 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 4: The USG and the RNA have decided to take a stand. 48 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 5: But did they go far enough? 49 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 4: I mean, is is this rollback and have a material 50 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 4: difference on how the game is played? 51 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 5: Or is it more symbolic than anything else? 52 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: If they went back to the distance Jack and Greg 53 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: hit the ball in the mid eighties, not Jack and 54 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: Jack in the seventies, Greg Norman when Norman was a 55 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: massive hit eighty but he probably wasn't at top of 56 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: the driving distance on the PGA two is probably was, 57 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: but he was in the top three. He was driving 58 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,399 Speaker 1: it somewhere around the mid two seven to eighty. Say 59 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: that would be that would for me would be a 60 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: reasonable You know, was anyone saying golf was broken in 61 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: the eighties when when the ball was going as far 62 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: as it was and short courses of length and since then? 63 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: But you know, in twenty twenty eight, when they're rolling 64 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: the ball back and the balls and it's going to 65 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: be going further in twenty twenty eight than it is 66 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three because there are just more young 67 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: kids coming out with the ball further. So if what 68 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: are they rolling it back, you know, ten percent? Five percent? 69 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: Maybe they were saying, yeah, so not going to make 70 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: that much difference. I don't think, you know, it's what's 71 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: five percent, So it's fifteen or twenty yards, it'll help 72 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: and it'll help with you know, all this last week 73 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: is routine eight iron. We had we become a bit 74 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: of a joke by the end of the week because 75 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: we had we had the exact one sixty meet number 76 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: five times during the week exactly on one one hundred 77 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: and seventy five yards. That's an eight iron. 78 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 4: The rollback has not gone far enough. So one thing 79 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 4: that Matt and Mike Lane were kicking around was why 80 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 4: not a tournament ball just for the major championships to 81 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 4: protect these old golf courses. Would you would you support that? 82 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: No? Because what about Australia? Does anyone care about Royal Melbourne? 83 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: I mean, the problem with this debate is it's entirely 84 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: American centric. Now that affects America. I mean, you know, 85 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: there are two points. We went through a roll back, 86 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: an effective roll back. The opening of nineteen seventy four 87 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: went to the big ball, then the tour in Australia. 88 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: I think in nine seventy eight, I think the seventy 89 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: seven Open was a small ball tim and seventy eight 90 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: was a big ball to him. It was the first 91 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: one I played in Europe about the same time, so 92 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: you know, and no one in America cared that we 93 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: all lost twenty five guards and it was a much 94 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: bigger change. The size of the ball changed, every shot change, 95 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: chips changed, bunker shot change, putch changed, It was way 96 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: more difficult to play in the wind, you know, I mean, 97 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: everything changed for us, and no one in America gave 98 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: a damn that we all had to change. And of 99 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: course the unintended consequence of that was the great generation 100 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: of foreign players that you know, I argue with that 101 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: never would have happened. Ballisteros, Norman, Price, Langer fell, all 102 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 1: those guys lyle if they'd been switching, which was happening 103 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: in Australia, you know, David Graham would come back and 104 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: he'd want to play the big ball because he was 105 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: playing in America he hated switching balls, and everyone hated 106 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: switching balls back and forward. So it was a great 107 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: thing that had happened. And the unintended consequence was that 108 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: generation of players all of a sudden didn't have to 109 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: change balls and you had to hit the ball better 110 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: because it was more difficult used to be called. So 111 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: now that's what I was saying, that it was off 112 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: the point. So no, I wouldn't just in doorse of 113 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: the major championships because what about courses in Britain and 114 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: Australia for tournaments here, So I. 115 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 4: Guess it'd be more like a tournament, a tournament ball 116 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 4: that any tournament could invoke that rule. 117 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, so of course the Australian would adopt it, 118 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: and probably the Japanese Open. But then you've got this 119 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: mess of players switching balls again, which is which is 120 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: what we're is where we were aut last time, and 121 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: players hate switching balls. Are you either change or you don't. 122 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: But I think it's going to be a worldwide thing, 123 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: you know, I always you know, I always thought bicycle 124 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: in the game was better because we had a bifircated 125 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: game and it was just fine, right, you know, of 126 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: course this is a compromise, and a compromise, no one's 127 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: ever happy as a pissed off because they're losing distance, 128 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: even though you know, again it's an American center of debate. 129 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: The evidence of our rollback, which was smaller a big ball, 130 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: was that no one cared when they said that's a 131 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: good idea, and they changed and everyone changed, and you know, 132 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: Peter Thompson objected because his view was, why are we 133 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: blindly following America, which was you know, not long after 134 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: the Vietnam War, which where we blindly followed America into 135 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: the Vietnam Wars. That wasn't a very good idea either, 136 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: but you know, that was a reasonable point of view. 137 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: Why are we just blindly following America? Because because you know, 138 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: there was there were two reasons for the well, the 139 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: small ball was better in the wind, and it was 140 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: the easier to use in the wind. And there's a 141 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: much more wind in Australia and Britain there is in America. 142 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: But my understanding is the Americans began to use the 143 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: big ball because it sat up better on the lush 144 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: off their ways, you know, way back when they changed 145 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: when they made the ball bigger. I don't know when 146 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: they did it, the twenties or thirties. Whenever they did 147 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: it was because the small balls sat down, and you 148 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: know the weather lash of Fellers in America, the small 149 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: ball sat down more so they just made the big 150 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: the ball bigger than make it easy to hit. I 151 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: think that's what happened. Amazing. 152 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 4: It is a funny, funny chapter that modern golf fans 153 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 4: have forgot about completely, that we've already gone through this 154 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 4: and as a sport. 155 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: But well, well that's kind of my big beefy is 156 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: that you know, you get on Twitter and Americans are 157 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: going nut's about this. Well, we all went through this. 158 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: This wasn't that big a deal. But it's you know, 159 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: it's maybe a bad analogy, but when we had a 160 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: gun massacre in nineteen ninety six and thirty five people 161 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: were killed in Port Arthur, the prime minister, the conservative 162 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: prime minister, said that's bad. We're going to buy back 163 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: guns and we're going to restrict people's ability to use 164 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: and buy guns. They won said that's a good idea. 165 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: You and Sandy Hook and if that didn't stop, you know, 166 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: so Americans react much differently in Australian than probably Europeans. 167 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 5: And geopolitics has entered the chat. 168 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,599 Speaker 6: But hold on, let me, let me, let me just 169 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 6: jump in here for a second, because, first of all, 170 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 6: Jim Jeffries and his just having you talk about the 171 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 6: guns and stuff that. 172 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: Jim Jeffries comedic, brilliant. 173 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, is one of the things that I actually watch 174 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 6: to give myself like therapy over what's happening with guns 175 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 6: in America. It's like, I just listen to that and 176 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 6: it gives me at least a little I'm able to 177 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 6: laugh about a really sad and horrific situation. 178 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an amendment. 179 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I can't even you can't even do 180 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 6: him justice. Watch Jim Jeffries on guns. If you haven't 181 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 6: seen it, I've watched it forty four hundred and seventy 182 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 6: two times. It's brilliant. The Michael I'm listening, I have 183 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 6: nothing but respect and admiration for you, your place in 184 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 6: the game architecture, your opinions. So I've been listening, and 185 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 6: I and I and I read what you what you write, 186 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 6: and I and I and I hear what you're saying. 187 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 6: You're caddying for these young players. But you know, for 188 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 6: me and and you, we said, yes, I'm American centric 189 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 6: because I'm in America, and I've been a part of 190 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,599 Speaker 6: the game since, you know, covering the game since y 191 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 6: five and and have watched the game struggle, ebb and flow, shrink, grow, 192 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 6: shrink again. Here we are at this height of this 193 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 6: boom in America with golf. Everybody's coming to the game, 194 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 6: and we're coming at the game. The game has evolved, right. 195 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 6: We're just on the phone and did a podcast on 196 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 6: Jay Blasi redoing a part three course at Golden Gate Park. 197 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 6: We know gold Hill Park, and Jeff comes and plays 198 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 6: Per Simmons at a forty five hundred yard par sixty five. 199 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 6: And that place is booming and it's great and people 200 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 6: can roll back there or not roll back. And we 201 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 6: have this, you know, all those oh the game initiatives 202 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 6: and all those youth initiatives, and all this momentum and 203 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 6: growth for the amateurs, for the people who pay to 204 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 6: play is in a really nice, beautiful, healthy place. Now 205 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 6: some would argue we have too many people out there. 206 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 6: They're the etiquette is bad, and I feel like over 207 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 6: time we train them up, we get more people playing 208 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 6: the game and more people playing the game means more 209 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 6: good people because the game fosters good people. Right, We 210 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:34,719 Speaker 6: learn community, camaraderie. We travel to play the game. By traveling, 211 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 6: you experience different cultures. Different cultures means you get more information. 212 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 6: More information means less racism, less bullshitty. That relates to 213 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 6: the other sort of components of general life and the 214 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 6: way we consume the world around us. Right, all those 215 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 6: things are why we I think we can all agree 216 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 6: the common bond here is that we love the game. 217 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: Right. 218 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 6: You love the game. I love the game. We come 219 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 6: at it from different perspectives. You're really in the ropes 220 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 6: of the professional game and seeing these guys go driver 221 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 6: eight iron from one hundred and seventy and that hurts you, right, 222 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 6: that hurts you. What what hurts me is the governing 223 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 6: bodies contradictions of like grow the game, grow the game, 224 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 6: grow the app hold on, we grew too much, or 225 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 6: the ball's going too far, and now we're going to 226 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 6: put a full stop on the people who pay to play. Right, 227 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 6: people rocking up, and the general perception being that whether 228 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 6: it's five yards or fifteen yards or zero yards, whatever 229 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 6: it is, it's just this pr nightmare that they've unleashed 230 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 6: right now today on the masses, and the game being 231 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 6: dragged professionally through this horrific situation from a professional standpoint, 232 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 6: and then throwing the ams into a similar pr nightmare. 233 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 6: Just feels like it doesn't make sense. Why just the ball? 234 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 6: Why not shrink the club beds, Why not grow the 235 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 6: fairway length? You know hard? In fact, the fair ways 236 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 6: at the old course were running faster than the green. Like, 237 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 6: there's so many other factors to me to pinpoint the 238 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 6: ball to say that this is the issue, and this 239 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 6: is what we're rolling back, and this is how far 240 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 6: we're rolling back, and we're doing in twenty eight Like 241 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 6: to me, it's like it's so unnecessary, and that's what 242 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 6: hurts me. 243 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: Well, I don't think the ball is clearly not the issue. 244 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: The balls the solution. The issue is, you know, the 245 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: complete failure of the USCA and the RNA to administer 246 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: someone that controlled the size of the driverhead. When the 247 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: great Big Bertha came out, they should have said that's it, 248 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: you know. So what I think came with the oversized 249 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: driver ahead was long as shafts, because if you put 250 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: a forty three and a half inch shaft in a 251 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: one of the modern drivers that looks completely out of scale, 252 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: looks ridiculous. And if you put a one or today's 253 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: shafts in an oppersimit head, it also looks ridiculous. So 254 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: the scale of the the length of the club, which 255 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: is all contributed to the ball going further, and if 256 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: also the ball runs for there was no run last 257 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: week at this ran open. The ball was not moving 258 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: on the fairway more than five yards, so short, and 259 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: it's always run for Everetts and Andrews, you know, and 260 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: my Canadate one. It's been a lot of it's been 261 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: a COVID injuice boom and two that go. But we 262 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: went through this before and nothing, no one can play, 263 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: nothing happened. The game still the game, you know. I 264 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: arguably the game grew in the in the in the 265 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: eighties when everyone lost twenty five yards and went and 266 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: went to play with the big ball, which was a 267 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: bigger change than this to the average player, was a 268 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: much bigger change to change the size of the ball, 269 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: and the game did just fine. So I don't see 270 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: that the game is predicated around how far the ball goes. 271 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: The other point I would make is that to agree 272 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: with you. The best the best thing the administration could 273 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: do was take away all the restrictions and make a 274 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: ball that went fifty yards further for women and old 275 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: guys and probably half the people who play golf. So 276 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: why why is my wife's mother playing golf with the 277 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: sign boll Roy McElroy. It's ridiculous. Michael Buller goes further 278 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: if you can, well, you know, wouldn't that grow the 279 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: game more than I think what was if you you know, 280 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: for the you know, for the majority of amateurs who 281 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: played the game, if the bull went further, wouldn't the 282 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: game be more fun? 283 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 6: Yeah? And the other thing is, I think we all 284 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 6: agreed that bifurcating is the answer. And unfortunately, you know 285 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 6: that got had declined or denied at the elite level, 286 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 6: and so therefore here we are. You know, I look 287 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 6: at pickleball is one of the fastest growing sports in 288 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 6: the US because it's a mini mini version of tennis. 289 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 6: We see short course, top golf, part three courses, you know, 290 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 6: as I pointed out, look at Bandon Dune's the last 291 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 6: four editions short course, putting course, short and fun course 292 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 6: in the Sheep Ranch and another short course. Because Kaiser's 293 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 6: hyper focused on the retail golfer and making sure people 294 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 6: want to keep coming back. He's creating more short cradle 295 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 6: at Pinehurst and the short course at Whistling Straits and 296 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 6: Forest Dunes and over and over and over again. Short 297 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 6: is happening. The game is evolving. We are making adjustments 298 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 6: because of time, playability, affordability, accessibility, all those things. It 299 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 6: feels like they say, oh, not doing anything, wasn't It 300 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 6: wasn't an option. In fact, as it relates to the 301 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 6: people who pay to play, I think it was an option. 302 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 6: And I was saying earlier when we were talking with Bamberger. 303 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 6: If the USJA is sitting on a polo cash and 304 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 6: the RNA is sitting on a polo cash, why don't 305 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 6: they cut out the middleman, not deal with the manufacturers, 306 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 6: make their own tournament ball, set up a twenty million 307 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 6: dollar perse that's called the US Open, which is a 308 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 6: major championship. Say you got to play with this ball 309 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 6: that we made, and let everything else fall into place. 310 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 6: People who are going to want to play for that 311 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 6: kind of money are going to start playing with that 312 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 6: ball and practicing with it and using it when they 313 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 6: need to, when designated events. Say we're going to the 314 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 6: tournament ball. It feels like then you're addressing the rollback 315 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 6: that needs to happen at the venues that need it 316 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 6: to happen at, with the players who need it to 317 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 6: be that need to be impacted, and you're leaving everybody 318 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 6: else alone. 319 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 5: I mean that was That's what's crazy. 320 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 4: That was part of that was the original phrasing of 321 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 4: this rollback was the local model rule. Like they could 322 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 4: have this already, would have been done and dusted, it 323 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 4: would have been announced today, but the tours killed it, 324 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 4: like yes. 325 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: So so it's it's a case of be careful what 326 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: you wish for. You know, it's the manufacturer's fault. If 327 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: Wally Ulon whoever the bust of Toddles is right now 328 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: it said, this is a good idea. We're very happy 329 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: to make a ball for the top level of the game. 330 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: You know, we don't want to bother it, cut it, 331 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: so so we'll support this. Instead they kick and screaming, 332 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: go nuts about it, like like every every like every 333 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: lobby group, like the cigarette companies are, the alcohol companies are, 334 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: the gambling companies. Certainly in Australia, I argue against everything 335 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: that I think is going to affect their bottom line. 336 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: So the us and I said, okay, we'll do it 337 00:17:59,480 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: for everyone. 338 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 6: Well they are they in fairness to them, in fairness 339 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 6: to them, and I'm not paid by any equipment company, right, 340 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 6: we have no ties to any equipment company. But in 341 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 6: fairness to let's say titleist. If some restaurant is making 342 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 6: really good chicken and they've worked hard at their recipe 343 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 6: and they're making the best chicken in town, and someone 344 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 6: rocks up and says, sorry, no more selling that type 345 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 6: of chicken. You're going to have to use this type 346 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 6: of chicken. And they go, well, wait a minute. We've 347 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 6: spent years and we've got this chef that specifically makes 348 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 6: this famous recipe, and you're going to take I mean, 349 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 6: they are trying to make a living. And that's why 350 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 6: I'm saying to the USGA and the RNA, then get 351 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 6: in the ball business and make your own ball. Don't 352 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 6: be beholden to the manufacturers. If you really want to 353 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 6: govern the game. You kind of missed the boat you lost. 354 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 6: The ship has sailed, and you know twenty years ago 355 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 6: you kind of missed. Now you can take matters in 356 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 6: your own hands because you've made a bunch of money 357 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 6: off of all those guys hitting at that far, this long, 358 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 6: this many times. You've made the money on on on 359 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 6: the tournaments that you hold. Put it into your own 360 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 6: ball and take control of your own situation and pay 361 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 6: for the price. Pay the price that you missed twenty 362 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 6: years ago by not doing what you should have been 363 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 6: done back then. 364 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 1: So who's going to use that ball? The European too, 365 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: the Japanese too, this is African too, these trying to it. Well, 366 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: then it's just a complete miss because you know the 367 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: players are going to go to they're going to play 368 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: the West Test, the Classical or whatever. Though, and then 369 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 1: the week after they got to the USR and they 370 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: got to change bulls when they go they're going to 371 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: hide doing that. 372 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 6: In baseball, Michael, one week you play at Finway. In 373 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 6: the next next week you play at Kamiski, or the 374 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 6: next week you go to Petco and you got to 375 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 6: play different length of of of you know, little different 376 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 6: lighting situations, you know, different court. Every golf course creates 377 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 6: their own set of different you know, it's a venue. 378 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 6: It changes all the time. 379 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: Like my mind would be the histor the evidence of 380 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: when the game last had that situation when players would 381 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 1: come to Australia go to Britain to live for the 382 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: open and switch balls. They hated it. In fact, Jack 383 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: was the one I think he said to the RNA 384 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: in ninth you know in the early seventies, we need 385 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: to go and we all need to be start playing 386 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: the same ball. So in seventy four they switched to 387 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: the big ball. So you know, players players switching back 388 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: and forward is going to be a nightmare, I think. 389 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 6: But you're still dealing with the small subset who get 390 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 6: paid to play, and not affecting the people who pay 391 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 6: to play, which is really at the base of all 392 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 6: of this. This is a business. This is a game 393 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 6: people choose to participate in in their off time after 394 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 6: they're after they're done with work. 395 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: Yeah that's true, but it goes back to my original point. 396 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: When they rolled the ball back in Australia and Britain, 397 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: no one gave up becaus the ball went shorter. No, 398 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: golves are much better game than you know. I'm not 399 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: going to play if my ball goes shorter. I mean, 400 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 1: either move up a tea or you know whatever. But 401 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: you know, golf is not about how fare your driver go. 402 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: I don't think if the only reason you're playing golf 403 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: is because your ball goes, and what's the what's the 404 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: average gamer on its five yards ten yards, He's not 405 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: even going to notice it really move up a tea 406 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: or whatever. But the game, the evidence of the last 407 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: time this happened was well, the evidence was the game 408 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: was just fine. Well why you do it? Because one, 409 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: because the ball goes way too far, not for just 410 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 1: the players on the PJ Tour or the European Tour, 411 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: but for the average am. I mean Lucas Michelle who 412 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: works for me one of the US metameter a few 413 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 1: years ago. Every hole of Metro is pretty much a 414 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: driver and a wedge for him. And it's a long 415 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: golf course. The ball goes and there are two other 416 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: things that no one ever talks about. Well, some talk 417 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: about the problem with the ball has never been hit 418 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: further off line. It goes miles sideways. Now with for 419 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: good for strong young men who not on the PJ Tour, 420 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 1: but it can s win the club at a decent speed. 421 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: But when the club gets inside and the faces open, 422 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: there are boundary problems that we as architects are completely unsolvable. 423 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: Now the ball goes way further offline than it ever did, 424 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: so that's a problem. And the other thing I think 425 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: that having catered at the European Tour school and watch 426 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: the Australian Tour and watch others struggle to get on 427 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: a tour outside of Australia despite being probably the best 428 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: young player down here, is you look around the professional 429 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: game and there are way too many young kids trying 430 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: to make a living when there are way too few jobs. 431 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: And the more difficult the game was to play, you 432 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: would weed the kids out h aren't good enough before 433 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: they get two players pros. There are way too many 434 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: kids from make a living out of this game. And 435 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: when you know, I keep saying when I played, you know, 436 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: back and back in the day. I don't want to 437 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: sound like an old grump who just wants to go 438 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: back to the way it was. But the great thing 439 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: about if the Simmon driver and a blader ball was 440 00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: it always found the best player in the world of 441 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: at the Open Championship. Because if you couldn't hit a 442 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: persimmon driver and a blader ball through the wind, you 443 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: didn't have a hope in the Open. So you look 444 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: at the guys who won that tournament. Once the Americans 445 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: started playing, were the guys who won that tournament always 446 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: the best, the guy who was playing the best or 447 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: the best part in the world. And seventy three was 448 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: why scoff in seventy six it was miller Jack was 449 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: always there at Trevino seven at the end of the seventies, 450 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, so you know, you really had to hit 451 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: that ball properly. And since then we've seen the game 452 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: get way more fun and way better for the people. 453 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: You care about that and the people I care about. 454 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: We all care about the average player. The driver's easier 455 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: to hit, the hybrid's better, revelation, laft wedges have been 456 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: a revelation, the fact that we got away from Ballada 457 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: so you could buy an affordable ball that wouldn't cut 458 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: and it would spin, but it flew better through the wind. 459 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: I mean, so many things that have happened in the 460 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: last forty years because of technology that made the game 461 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: easier to play. And that's a great that's been a 462 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: eight thing for golf and the growth of the game. 463 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: But the unintended consequences. There are thousands of young kids 464 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: who all think they're good enough to be pros. Now 465 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: they're all out there and there aren't enough jobs for them, 466 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: and it's a it's not a tragedy like Guards as 467 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: a tragedy or is, you know, but it's a tragedy 468 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: in a game, and that these kids they're never going 469 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: to make a living out and the quicker. You can 470 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: weed those kids out of the top level because they're 471 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: not good enough to play, but the equipment has given 472 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: a sense that they're good enough because the ball goes 473 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: a long way, they shoot load scores. If they can't 474 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: at a one on like Jack and gregor at the 475 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: one on, they can need a hybrid club. There are 476 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: thousands of them out there, and if you made the 477 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: game marginally more difficult to play for them, it would 478 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: stop this chantage of thousands of kids out there trying 479 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: to play. 480 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 4: But even even as it relates to the guys on tour, 481 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 4: it would be a more interesting game where the driver 482 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 4: edge to me is a problem as just a consumer, 483 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 4: it just gets boring well. 484 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: Well, and people are turning off the page. I can't 485 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: tell them. It feels that I don't watch anyone. What's boring? 486 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, it really, But again, Michael, there the PGA Tour 487 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 6: is in control of their product. This is a product, 488 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 6: you know, the governing bodies just because they're going to 489 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 6: say whatever they're saying, the PGA Tour is still going 490 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 6: to do what it does. The PGA of America is 491 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 6: going to do what it does. Like I still don't 492 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 6: see how or what like there is. You know, the 493 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 6: governing body of the NFL is the NFL. The governing 494 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 6: body of Major League Baseball is Major League Baseball. The 495 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 6: governing body of the PGA Tour is the PGA Tour. 496 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 6: They they're trying to sell tickets, and if they have 497 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 6: identified a problem with what their product is, they need 498 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 6: to make changes based on you know, the the the eyeballs, 499 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 6: how they broadcast the tournament, like the PJ Tour is 500 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 6: a lot of issues. But like hitting the ball to 501 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 6: or or you know, having people rock up and see 502 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 6: someone hit a two hundred and eighty five yard drive 503 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 6: versus a three hundred and fifteen yard drive, I don't 504 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 6: know if that's going to solve their problem. 505 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: They got real rules, but the different Yeah, but the 506 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: difference between baseball and football and those other sports is 507 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: none of those players are paid as endorses for the 508 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: Baseball are using or the football are using. Every golfer 509 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: is a paid endorser of an equipment company. The players 510 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: have a huge voice on the PJ Tour. The equipment 511 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: companies don't want the ball roll back, and the players 512 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: are just spooking their message, that's all they're doing. And 513 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: players who I know Ogilvy was without throwing him in 514 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: the mess, was that, Jeff, we're not paying it to 515 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: talk about the ball. Stop talking about the ball. And 516 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: he stopped talking about the ball. So the players, their 517 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: opinions are owned and bought by the manufacturers. And Rory 518 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 1: and Tiger are the only two guys who are big 519 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: enough to come out and say what they what they 520 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: want to say, because what's the Bridge not going to 521 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: sign a Tiger? 522 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 6: Well yeah, well because they've gotten rich nothing, but they've 523 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 6: gotten rich enough to be able to have that independence, 524 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 6: you know what I mean. 525 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: But well, the players have it, and and you know, 526 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: going back to the chicken analogy, titlists have always made 527 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: the best ball, and and they've all and they've developed 528 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: the naming golf that they're not going to sell one 529 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,479 Speaker 1: less golf ball if the ball goes shorter because one 530 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: they've always made their best ball and in the last 531 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: seventy years that they've created an amazing brand. So people 532 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: aren't going to stop buying titless balls because the titlest 533 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 1: ball goes shorter. But I make a difference step bottom line. 534 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 6: Well, if it's illegal. If it's illegal, they'll stop buying it. 535 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 6: I mean, you know, in theory, I mean, I could 536 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 6: see their point. They've if you go to the ball 537 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 6: factory and you see what they do and put into 538 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 6: the R and D and how many decades of money 539 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 6: they've spent to b number one, in which you know 540 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 6: they've earned it quite frankly, I mean, and then you know, 541 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,479 Speaker 6: and then you blur that, you blur the marketplace, you 542 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 6: and you bring everybody back to a starting point in 543 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 6: which you're you know, yeah, you're going to have a lawsuit. 544 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 6: And again why you know, of course I. 545 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 4: Would see I would I would argue that that just 546 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 4: this is Tylis to be the most popular maker of 547 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 4: the new ball if people trust them and they've got 548 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 4: the R and D, we'll see. 549 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 6: But you can see where you can see their argument 550 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 6: saying you know, yeah, you know. 551 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: So so here's a question, Matt. You know, we agree 552 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: that this is a compromise, bifurcation would have been better. 553 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: So in golf, since Ted Ray was a boy, Sam 554 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: sne Jack Nicholas, who was next? I was loved, probably Greg, 555 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: John Day, you know Tiger Rory. Now it's Gordon Sergeant 556 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: So who flies at what three seventy five? Whatever his 557 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: ball spit is? So you know the history of that, 558 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: The history tells us the freaking one generation has always 559 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: been the Norman the next. So what so is it 560 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: okay in twenty years when everyone's in its three hundred 561 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: and seventy five yards? I mean, what happens to the game. 562 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: What's the point of a golf course at that level? 563 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: If the ball's going three outre and seventy five yards, 564 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: there is there is no point to it. There is 565 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: no point to golf if every every part forwards are 566 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: driving a wedge and you can't keep extending teas you can't. 567 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: So you know, I think this is a this is 568 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: the right decision because the freak always becomes the normal. 569 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: And you know people are going to say, well, that's 570 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,959 Speaker 1: not going to happen now, Well, no one thought that 571 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: people were going to hit the falls filed John Daily 572 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: when he came out at Crooked Stick. No one could 573 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: believe how far he hit the ball. Ship there are 574 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: women who with the ball further than that now, yeah, 575 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: there are five women on the LPJ tour. I think 576 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: it was statistically longer than Greg Norman. Was it nine 577 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: eighty five? You know it was there a problem with 578 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: the game, and now father Ball went in nine eighty five. 579 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: No one thought it was a problem. You know, there 580 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: was a fair It was a fair fight between the 581 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: golf course and the playout. It's now a completely unfair 582 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: fight because the golf courses, you know, it's early in Australia, 583 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: they're completely defenseless, you know. And the worst thing about 584 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: playing the old course now is that because I catered 585 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: at Royal Stinkport's and the unqualify there. The worst thing 586 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: about playing those golf courses you walk back eighty yards 587 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: through every team, not every team, but most of them, 588 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: because that's the way they've resolved the issue of the 589 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: ball going so far. 590 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 6: I think you need you caddy for too many good players. 591 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 6: I think that you'd walk off on the third hole 592 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 6: if you caddied for me anyway. But I think you 593 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 6: need to caddy for more people like me who really 594 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 6: suck at the game, Matt. 595 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: Every Saturday I play with three guys who are really 596 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: bad at golf. So I know, you know, I know 597 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: how I watch people play all the time. I mean, 598 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: I you know, we walk around golf courses. The funniest thing. 599 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: We're walking around a golf course the other day and 600 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: there were two women playing. You guys walk ahead. They 601 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: just hate you watching him play golf. Parish to what 602 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: you know, I see lots of bad players, don't you know. 603 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: We deal with them all the time. I know I do. 604 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: I have difficult the game is but yeah, you know, 605 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about two you know, we're talking about two 606 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: entirely different games. You know that, you know, which is 607 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: why you need two sets. I think you need two 608 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: sets of rules. Yeah, but you know, this is the man. 609 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: This is on the manufacturers and the PJA too, because 610 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: they said we're not going to you know, the game 611 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: shouldn't be bifecated. So you said, okay, it's going to 612 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: be done for everybody. So you know, but because because 613 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: because doing nothing is not an option, and historically Gordon Sergeant, 614 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: he's going to be the norm, because that's what's always happened. 615 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: And why is it going to be any different now? 616 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: You know, there are a bunch of fourteen and fifteen 617 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: year old kids in there who are being told if 618 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: you want to compete as a player on the PGA too, 619 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: you have to win the club at one hundred and 620 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: thirty miles an hour. Your balls bed's got to be 621 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety miles an hour. So what's going 622 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: to happen? That's what they're going to do, because that's 623 00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: what humans do. 624 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 6: You know what's going to happen. They're all going to 625 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 6: try to swing for one hundred and thirty miles an hour, 626 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 6: and they're going to hurt their backs, and you know, 627 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 6: the will Zala Tauruses of the world, the rollback happens 628 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 6: naturally and organically because no one like can sustain that 629 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 6: type of physical activity at anything beyond your mid to 630 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 6: late twenties. You know, it's going to happen naturally. You're 631 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 6: going to have a younger group of people who come up. 632 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 6: If the game allows for these people to your back 633 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 6: to your other point of so many people trying to 634 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 6: get in and get it, get a piece of the 635 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 6: cash that's floating around in the professional game, because that's 636 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 6: the big carrot. And why all those thousands of people 637 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 6: are trying to achieve that elite level is because there's 638 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 6: money to be made and only and more to your point, 639 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 6: there's only small chunk of people who are actually getting 640 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 6: access to that money. So that's again part of the 641 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 6: professional you know, dilemma. But not many Gordon sergeants are 642 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 6: going to be able to swing one hundred and thirty 643 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 6: mile hour swing speeds or drive at three hundred and 644 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 6: seventy yards for more than like one two, three, four five. 645 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 6: How long is he going to be able to do it? 646 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 6: And the other thing is is that those people that 647 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 6: are swinging that lard are not just going out and 648 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 6: walking away and winning by ten shots. 649 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: Which is the next issue, which this is not about scoring. 650 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: This is not about scoring. You can distort the dimensions 651 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: of it of any golf course in the world to 652 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: make even part win a tournament. Just do it. Seven 653 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: didn't say you just have those fairways, I'll win every week. 654 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: So but sure some of them get it, but not 655 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: all of them will get injured. You know, there's bound 656 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five mother Wake. And you know, 657 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: the other point about this is do we want to 658 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: drive and what we have one? You know, do you 659 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: want to drive a Sam Snead out of the game, 660 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: who was for three consecutive he is in his sixties 661 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: finish in the top five in the PG Championship. Do 662 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: we never want to see that ever again? Or Jack 663 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: Nichols winning the masses at forty six, or do you 664 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: want to I don't think. 665 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 6: That's actually a great look for professional golf to be 666 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 6: total Well. 667 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: No, I think it's amazing that. 668 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 6: I think a big, old chubby guy walking off off 669 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 6: the couch and going and winning a major championship. 670 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,439 Speaker 1: Well, yea, but Sam Steve was arguably the greatest athter 671 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: who ever played the game. The guy was a great 672 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: enough player, and his sixties definished the top five in 673 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: a major championship three years in a row. Well, I 674 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: think it was ninth one year, and then third and 675 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: fifth and whatever he was. It was a fricking amazing achievement. 676 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: You know, do we want to kill that? But you 677 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: know we've killed the Corey Paven and Calvin Pete out 678 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 1: of the game. Those you know. You know, if someone 679 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: counted the ball at crazy distance, well I consider a 680 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 1: crazy distance. They can't play anymore. I mean, why do 681 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: you want to drive those players out of the game. 682 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: How much better was the game for the variety it had. 683 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: Now it's just all about it. You know, if you 684 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: can't hit fair enough, you can't play. Corey Pavin couldn't 685 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: itIt far enough, but he could play because you know, 686 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: last I looked, there were thirteen other clubs in the 687 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: bag and he was really good with him. If you 688 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 1: can't drive the ball X distance, you can't compete. It's 689 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: a horrendous look for the game. 690 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 6: In a way, we're kind of agreeing, you know, we 691 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 6: keep landing on an agreement that you know, a bifurcation 692 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 6: would have been the best scenario. Manufacturers, I see their point. 693 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 6: It's a business they're making money. 694 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: Way with then I just don't see that point because 695 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: because I actually don't see that point, because because if 696 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 1: some rocket science technolo I just can't went to the 697 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: boss of titles tomorrow and said I've figured out how 698 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: to make a ball that goes four hundred yards it's legal, 699 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: they would switch their machines tomorrow to make that ball. 700 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: I don't give a damn about the consequences on golf courses, 701 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: on the speed of play, on the boundary problems who 702 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: would affect They couldn't care less, and it's not their 703 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: job to care care it's not their job to care. 704 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: But it's the administrator's job to care about how golf 705 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: courses play, how the ball goes offline, you know the 706 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,959 Speaker 1: consequences of the distance. It's it's their job to care. 707 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: And you know, they've decided that four hundred yards is 708 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,919 Speaker 1: not the line on the standards three hundred and thirty 709 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: or three hundred and forty, So so what point is 710 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 1: it too far? 711 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,399 Speaker 6: But again, let's go back to that point about how 712 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 6: in other sports people don't get bit paid to play 713 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 6: that specific bat or play that specific ball, because essentially 714 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 6: Major League Baseball has a ball that everybody plays and 715 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 6: a bat and that has to conform. There's you know, 716 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,919 Speaker 6: I think there are different versions of a wooden bat 717 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,760 Speaker 6: or companies that make wooden bats that players can choose from, 718 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,919 Speaker 6: So why not Why don't then the governing bodies would 719 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 6: you be a fan of if today's announcement was the 720 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 6: USG and the RNA we're going to go into development 721 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 6: with in in their own ball and maybe even like 722 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,479 Speaker 6: it could even expand beyond that, essentially to say this 723 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 6: is these are our rules and regulations to play in 724 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 6: our tournament. We're putting up twenty million, and let the 725 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 6: chips Forllward. They may. 726 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: Aunt Tata. That's kind of say get out of that business. 727 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: Why are you in that business? 728 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 6: They can't say that anyway. They're saying that anyway. 729 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: No, well, I think the manufacturers, like the ball I 730 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: don't see what the wash of the and I in 731 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: the USA and in the business of bull Man. If 732 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: they're in the business of running torments, they're not in 733 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: the business of manufacturing golf polls. 734 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 6: But you eliminate that whole other thing that we're talking about, 735 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 6: which is the dilemma, which is the manufacturers are paying 736 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 6: players to play, and therefore the players are going to 737 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,479 Speaker 6: reject the bifurcation. So in order let's again stay let's 738 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 6: I feel like we should stay focused on the subset 739 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 6: of the game that it truly impacts, which is such 740 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,839 Speaker 6: a small percentage, and let's stay hyper focused on that 741 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 6: and continue to make adjustments that impact that group. But 742 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 6: be the minute you start making adjustments that impact the 743 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 6: people who pay to play, in which the game is 744 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,399 Speaker 6: already hard, it's for them. No matter what we do. 745 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 6: It makes no sense in the minute it goes to 746 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 6: the masses, it makes no sense to me. 747 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: Well, two points, that would be the gun. One of 748 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: the game's never been easier. 749 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 6: To play, but it's still hard. 750 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: It's still hard, and it's hard because it's hard because 751 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: it's a game of it's hard because it's a game 752 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: of technique, and it's hard to master the technique. And 753 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: the average player, the average player plays at a level 754 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: they play because of their technique. You know, if you're 755 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: a twenty handicap player, it's because you've got a twenty 756 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 1: handicap swing playing and a twenty handicap grip and a 757 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 1: twenty handicap swing twenty seven fifteen for whatever level it is, 758 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: you play at that level because it's a game of technique. 759 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 1: So it's you know, so I've forgot that, I've lost 760 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: my point. 761 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:42,879 Speaker 5: Yeah. 762 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: My other point would be people make the analogy of 763 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,720 Speaker 1: you know, running tracks and baseball tracks and cricket fields. 764 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: They're not pieces of architecture. Golf course is unique. A 765 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: golf course is unique in sports is it's a piece 766 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: of architecture designed and intended to test a wide variety 767 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: of skills and to make holes that ask different questions. 768 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: And until this generation, if you built, if an architect 769 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: built a hole that was a four hundred and seventy 770 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: yards Part four, he could reasonably expect a hole to 771 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: test driving a long line or driving a mid iron, 772 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: and he built the green that was appropriate for the 773 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,240 Speaker 1: shot that was being played to it. Not always, but generally, 774 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 1: you know, there were great holes with greens that are 775 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: wildly the road hole Andrews is not is not an 776 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 1: appropriate green for a long line approach. It's the best 777 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: hole in the world, and it's an exception that proves 778 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:41,280 Speaker 1: the rule. But you know, golf courses asked those questions. 779 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,879 Speaker 1: They don't at the top level, they don't ask those 780 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: questions anymore. In fact, there are a whole bunch of 781 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: holes that were designed with greens that were built to 782 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: receive mid the long line so now now played with wedges. 783 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 6: So there they weren't designed to roll at eleven on 784 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 6: the stemp or twelve on the stemp either. They weren't. 785 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 6: There's that, like, you know, there's a lot of other you. 786 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 1: Know, well, well that's that's awesome, but that's also true, 787 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: and that comes back. But you know, fundamentally, there are 788 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of greens who were built for long 789 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: lines that are now players in short lines too. So 790 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,919 Speaker 1: the game's out of scale. It's and we're talking about 791 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: at the top level. It's not just PJ Tour plays. 792 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,760 Speaker 1: It's there's a whole you know, there's there are thousands 793 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: of people, thousands of great amateurs who they all hit 794 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: the ball forever, and golf courses don't play the way 795 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:29,800 Speaker 1: they used to play, the way that they were intended 796 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: to play, the way the great minds of you know, 797 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: Bobby Jones, and again you know he's going back to 798 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 1: the past, the way Jones and mackenzie and the great 799 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,399 Speaker 1: minds thought, you know, George Thomas and all the great 800 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: architects that the tests they were making, the way the 801 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 1: game they should the way they saw the game playing, 802 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,879 Speaker 1: and the way it should be played. You know, that's 803 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: completely gone and lost. And you know, is Wally youle 804 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: On a better mind than Alistair McKenzie or Bobby Jones, 805 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: well or whoever's the boss that time. All they care 806 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 1: about is their bottom line and that perception of how 807 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: this will hurt their business. Now, I didn't think of 808 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: them like a damn but a difference said business, because 809 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: they've always made the best golf ball, and they've developed 810 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 1: an amazing brand payple of a great loyalty to it. 811 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: They're always gonna buy Tatness bul whether it goes two 812 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,919 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty turing eighty three hundred and thirty yards, 813 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: They're still gonna buy their golf ball. 814 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 4: I gotta jump in here. I need to catch a plane. 815 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 4: I'm coming to see you, Michael. We've been podcasting for 816 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 4: over three hours straight here. 817 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: Uh, they'll fed up with that. 818 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 4: I'm not fed up. I'm just I'm just out of time. 819 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,319 Speaker 4: I got to start getting to the airport, but but 820 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 4: very quickly. Let's just tee it up. So Michael, I 821 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,760 Speaker 4: am coming your way. I'm heading to San Francsco Airport 822 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 4: here to fly to Melbourne to the sand Bell Invitational. 823 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 4: I can't wait. I've been covering the tournament the last 824 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 4: two years from afar. Now I'll be in the dirt, 825 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 4: at least in the sand. Tell the listeners why this 826 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 4: tournament is special and what it means to you personally. 827 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: Well, we started off in Covid. Quickly the kids said 828 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:05,720 Speaker 1: no where to play, and Jeff Ogley and I started 829 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: to think all the game, which was it was an 830 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: eighteen and thirty six old just chance to play, and 831 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: they started playing competitive golf and it was fantastic and 832 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: you know they embraced it. Now you know they play 833 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 1: most Mondays and sam Belt Tormentsort evolved out of that 834 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: where we went to originally kens and Heath Peninsula, kingswood 835 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: yar in Ryal, Melbourne. So can we have a day 836 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 1: at each of your courses to run a four round tournament. 837 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: We want about thirty five or thirty six pros and 838 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: the same number of kids, so men and women, boys 839 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 1: and girls. We've got an eleven year old playing this year, 840 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,760 Speaker 1: a twelve year old, a bunch of teenagers like thirteen fourty. 841 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 1: Emilia Harris who won last year as fifteen. She's like 842 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 1: a veteran. I'm just looking at I'm just looking at 843 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:03,839 Speaker 1: the PGA Tour score. Robin Troy is now leading at 844 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:08,479 Speaker 1: twenty seven hunder par. She's leaving the LPGA Tour school 845 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,320 Speaker 1: that she looks like she's going to win through fifteen 846 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: holes to come and play. Nicholas Colsart is playing Cam Davis, 847 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,799 Speaker 1: who is amazing, is a defending champion. Jeff og he's 848 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: obviously playing. Elvis is playing sother a bunch of great 849 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 1: young and old pros, young amateurs. It's free to get in. 850 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,880 Speaker 1: We play a different course every day. Can't tell you 851 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,760 Speaker 1: how many really good young Australian plays send me emails 852 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: pleading to play, and I'm sorry, guys, we've only got 853 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: thirty six bots and I wish I could fit you 854 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: in and send me an email earlier and yeah. So 855 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 1: it's a really cool tournament. It's free to get in. 856 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 1: And you can see Cameron Davis playing with a thirteen 857 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: year old girl. I mean last year he played the 858 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:55,840 Speaker 1: last two rounds with Mamachah Kabori, who's Kazuma Kabori's brother sister. 859 00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,760 Speaker 1: He had a driver on the seventeenth hole, a peninsula 860 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: king do. I fought and hold it and beat her 861 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,919 Speaker 1: by one shot, so she's a driver off the deck. 862 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: It was amazing shots. So the women play off different 863 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: teas and they play a different par so the men play. 864 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 1: So we cut the men's part down at seventy on 865 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:22,360 Speaker 1: not exactly but essentially seventy on Royal Melbourne and the area. 866 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: Finchill out the women's past seventy two and the winning 867 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 1: score is relative to power if that makes sense, does it? 868 00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,719 Speaker 1: So it's a really cool event and this is the 869 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,439 Speaker 1: third year and it's gonna be great fun to watch 870 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: out evolves. 871 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 6: It's really really quick. Hugh Foley, our friend from Ireland, 872 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 6: a dear friend, is playing, which is amazing and has 873 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 6: quite the resume. Second in the US Midam two years 874 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 6: ago and on the north and South of Ireland. Not 875 00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,879 Speaker 6: done since. I think Darren Clerk did it way back when. 876 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 6: So you got Hugh Foley. But Jeff flew out from 877 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 6: Melbourne to play in the Wishbone Brawl and on the 878 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 6: driving range again not to not to talk for Jeff, 879 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,080 Speaker 6: and we're going to run a clip of his about 880 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 6: the sand belt. But I love the idea that part 881 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 6: of the reason, and I'm sure you can, you can, 882 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 6: you know, emphasize this. But what Jeff loves about this 883 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 6: is that as a kid he would have loved an 884 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 6: opportunity to play with the pros, to pick their brains, 885 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 6: to see them, you know, shoulder to shoulder, and watch 886 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,400 Speaker 6: how they carry themselves, how they practice, how they get ready, 887 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 6: how how they perform under pressure, And that to me 888 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,760 Speaker 6: is also a really cool subset of this is that 889 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 6: that's what you guys are providing, is this sort of 890 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,760 Speaker 6: this opportunity to sort of compete together. 891 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well well that's not so much the subset, 892 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: and it's the whole point of it. You know, it's 893 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 1: the mentoring thing. It's like, you know, the sounds for 894 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,200 Speaker 1: you Amelia Harris when she was thirtained, so sit down 895 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: with Petafala who was sixty years old, talk about, you know, 896 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,279 Speaker 1: how did you play that shot? How do I prepare it? 897 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: Because Chok is the most rabid preparer for pro golf 898 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,800 Speaker 1: ever and Sevy one said, the only man with a 899 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: better shortcame on the European than me is Peter Fowler, 900 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 1: so you know, and you know she was with him 901 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:17,520 Speaker 1: for an hour and a half and he took it 902 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:18,960 Speaker 1: down the chipping grind and he showed her how to 903 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,320 Speaker 1: play different shots and so that's the whole point of 904 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,080 Speaker 1: the whole thing. And you know, it was the mentoring thing, 905 00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 1: and it's a really cool to The clubs are great 906 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,840 Speaker 1: because it's not too much of an inconvenience for the 907 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,640 Speaker 1: members because we only spend one day at them. There 908 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:34,239 Speaker 1: are no grandstands, TV towers that you know, we don't 909 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,239 Speaker 1: have to pay them any money for the course. Yeah, 910 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: it's me. It's an amazing thing. And Lloyd Cole's in 911 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,839 Speaker 1: Melbourne on Wednesday night, so Alan, you're coming to see 912 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: Lloyd Cole on Wednesday night. 913 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 5: I think I look forward to it, So. 914 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: That'll be fun. So Lloyd's of course a complete golf 915 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: nutt and Australians love Lloyd Cole. So he's playing in 916 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 1: town on Wednesday night. So we'll see how many of 917 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 1: the players want to come. Most of them have probably 918 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: never heard of Lloyd Cole. But anyway, now and all 919 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:01,319 Speaker 1: I have. 920 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 6: Michael, thank you for your time and and thank you 921 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,960 Speaker 6: for your perspective and all that you do for the game. 922 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,920 Speaker 6: And obviously a big like I said, big fan of 923 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,359 Speaker 6: your your opinion and your architecture. And I've been doing 924 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 6: some things on what you guys have been doing. And 925 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,239 Speaker 6: you've got a great team and uh, and so keep 926 00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 6: up all the great work. And I'm I'm uh. You 927 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,680 Speaker 6: know at some point you know that at the core 928 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 6: of all this is is we love the game. And 929 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,240 Speaker 6: I hope someday to come down to the Sand Belt 930 00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:32,880 Speaker 6: and uh and to walk some fairways. 931 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, to come and play it and say it and 932 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:36,359 Speaker 1: look forward to see you Alan. 933 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 5: All right, thank you, Michael, Thank you, Michael. 934 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,800 Speaker 4: Okay, well, Michael Clayton and I will continue this conversation 935 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 4: in person in Melbourne while I'm covering the sand Belt Invitational. 936 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 4: You can follow all that on Firepit Collective dot com. 937 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,440 Speaker 4: There'll be daily stories, probably some more podcasts. We'll be 938 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:56,319 Speaker 4: doing some fun stuff on social along the way, on 939 00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 4: my handles and of course on the Firepit handles. 940 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,840 Speaker 5: So thanks to listening. 941 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 4: For those of you who went from Bamberger to Clayton, 942 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,120 Speaker 4: you're the lunatic fringe of golf fans and we love 943 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,960 Speaker 4: you and we thank you for your support. Matt, always 944 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 4: a pleasure. I wish I had as much passion for 945 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 4: anything in my life as you do for the anti 946 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 4: rollback arguments. It's impressive. 947 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: Uh and uh. 948 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,239 Speaker 4: But anyway, good stuff. Thanks for having us safe. Yeah, 949 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 4: thank you, thank you, and that's the end of this podcast. Goodbye. 950 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,759 Speaker 3: I'll bet big and I played the wind made a 951 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 3: fortune when my ship game and I ran the table 952 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,279 Speaker 3: and never thought I could fall down. 953 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:45,719 Speaker 2: The win hit me lack of canon the ball and 954 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,960 Speaker 2: now I can't shake this losing stream. Every road I 955 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 2: take is a dead end street. 956 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 6: I got dat in my head. 957 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:02,880 Speaker 2: Can you jo not to think what I'm thinking about now? 958 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:04,680 Speaker 2: Kind of thoughts in my head. 959 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,879 Speaker 3: I can't get them out. Trying not to think what 960 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:10,200 Speaker 3: I'm thinking about