WEBVTT - FROM THE VAULT: Oreos: Everything You Didn't Know

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<v Speaker 1>Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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<v Speaker 2>that brings you the secret histories and little known fascinating

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<v Speaker 2>facts about your favorite movies, TV shows, music and more.

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<v Speaker 2>We are your two doyens of drivel. I'm Alex Heigel and.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Jordan Runtag.

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<v Speaker 2>And today, Jordan, we are venturing into a bold new

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<v Speaker 2>direction for TMI foodstuffs, specifically Oreos, which are celebrating their

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and tenth anniversary this year. I have personally

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<v Speaker 2>always thought of Oreos as the season NBA metaphor, the

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<v Speaker 2>sixth man of the cookie world, the anchor. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>They're not chalky and disgusting like a Chips de Hoy.

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<v Speaker 2>They're wantonly sexual like a Nutter butter or snooty like

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<v Speaker 2>those high falutin Pepperidge Farm folks. They're the John Stockton

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<v Speaker 2>Utah jazz reference of the cookie aisle, all time assist leader,

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<v Speaker 2>just happy to be out there with the rest of

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<v Speaker 2>the guys, having a good time, playing their best and

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<v Speaker 2>helping the team. But Jordan, you you hit me with

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<v Speaker 2>a scorching hot take right before we started recording. Would

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<v Speaker 2>you like to repeat that for the fine folks out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, I'm not a huge Areos fan, and

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<v Speaker 1>I do have strong thoughts on sweets. I don't really drink,

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<v Speaker 1>and you tend to find that people who don't drink

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<v Speaker 1>have an especially intense sweet tooth. So I can pratle

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<v Speaker 1>on about cookies like some people do about brandy or wine,

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<v Speaker 1>and I have to say, I don't know if it's

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<v Speaker 1>a case of familiarity breeds contempt, but I'm just not

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<v Speaker 1>a huge Oreos fan, and the flavors okay, but just

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<v Speaker 1>the experience of eating them to me is garbage. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>let's pay say, the cookie itself or the wafer, if

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<v Speaker 1>you're being professional, is trash. It's stale, it's crummy, it's

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<v Speaker 1>bitter tasting, terrible mouthfeel, if we're getting really professional here.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not a dipper, so maybe that's part of the problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe if I dipped, it would be less like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>eating gravel. Feel like, no one actually likes the cookie

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<v Speaker 1>portion of Oreo. It's all about the cream feeling. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's the cream, and the cream is fine.

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<v Speaker 1>It's sweet, it's vaguely cream tasting, it's sugary, it's sweet.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. It's fine for me. Oreo is great

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<v Speaker 1>as a flavor of ice cream or milkshakes or the

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<v Speaker 1>cookies and cream candy bar. That's where the flavor profile

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<v Speaker 1>of oreo is great. But the actual experience of eating them, eh,

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<v Speaker 1>not for me. I could take them or leave them.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll take malamars or their fancy cousin pin wheels any day.

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<v Speaker 1>But how about you.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, as someone who used to smoke a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of weed, I've had a lot of experience with oreos,

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<v Speaker 2>all kinds of oreos, the peanut butter. Also, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>as longtime listeners of the show will know, I grew

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<v Speaker 2>up in central Pennsylvania, so I have eaten my fair

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<v Speaker 2>share of chocolate covered and or deep fried oreos at

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<v Speaker 2>the state fairs.

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<v Speaker 1>That I've never had. I've never actually had that, despite.

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<v Speaker 2>My disgusting Just why it's awful? Just put yourself into

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<v Speaker 2>like a painful state of food coma and or diabetic shock. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they're bad. I don't know why people do that to themselves. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>folks from the Vicious family feud at the heart of

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<v Speaker 2>the cookies invention to the insane process of making that

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<v Speaker 2>famous filling kosher certified in the late nineties to the

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<v Speaker 2>definitive scientific proof regarding the distribution of said filling to

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<v Speaker 2>the high school seniors who got in trouble for shoving

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<v Speaker 2>oreos up there. But that was Jordan's edition. Here's everything

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<v Speaker 2>you didn't know about oreos. The tangled web of oreos

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<v Speaker 2>actually begins in a bit of family slash corporate battles.

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<v Speaker 2>I did not know this. Around the turn of the

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<v Speaker 2>nineteenth century, biscuits were big business in America. Did you

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<v Speaker 2>know this?

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<v Speaker 1>I did not know this.

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<v Speaker 2>No.

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<v Speaker 1>I know that they were basically trying to make biscuits

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<v Speaker 1>a thing over here in the way that they were

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<v Speaker 1>in the UK for tea time. Yes, I think that

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<v Speaker 1>was kind of the whole idea, was that they were

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<v Speaker 1>trying to create a market need where there was not

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<v Speaker 1>over here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. And so in the late nineteenth century, two brothers,

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<v Speaker 2>Jacob and Joseph Leos, bought a controlling interest in the

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<v Speaker 2>Coral Cracker and Confectionery Company in Kansas City, Missouri. So

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<v Speaker 2>I can't believe you read that tech neither can I.

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<v Speaker 2>Particulars of this are not interesting. The point is that

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<v Speaker 2>Jacob decides that a bunch of Midwest bakeries can form

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<v Speaker 2>together and become a regional powerhouse to compete with those

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<v Speaker 2>snooty coastal elites Big Biscuit in New York. And So

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<v Speaker 2>in eighteen ninety he hires a lawyer named Adolphus Green

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<v Speaker 2>to oversee a merger that creates the American Biscuit and

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<v Speaker 2>Manufacturing Company, which becomes the second largest corporate bakery in America.

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<v Speaker 2>Jacob names himself president, appoints his brother Joseph to the

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<v Speaker 2>board of directors, and Adolphus to general counsel. Meanwhile, in

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen eighty nine, a guy named William H. Moore combines

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<v Speaker 2>a number of other bakeries to start the New York

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<v Speaker 2>Biscuit Company. More is more lest the archetype for what

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<v Speaker 2>would become the kind of nineteen eighties. Patrick Bateman, corporate

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<v Speaker 2>writer ac mergers and acquisition guys. His whole thing was

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<v Speaker 2>buying and consolidating companies. He lost one point one million

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<v Speaker 2>at one point in an attempt to buy the Carnegie

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<v Speaker 2>Steel Company, but subsequently tried again with the assistants of

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<v Speaker 2>JP Morgan and John D. Rockefeller and succeeded creating US Steel,

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<v Speaker 2>which is one of the archetypal industrial mega corporations of

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<v Speaker 2>the twentieth century. So this is the guy who's behind

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<v Speaker 2>New York Biscuit.

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<v Speaker 1>So moral the stories, you don't want to mess with

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<v Speaker 1>New York Biscuit.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds like no, no, no no. So American Biscuit,

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<v Speaker 2>New York Biscuit, and a third company called the United

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<v Speaker 2>States Bacon Company. These guys didn't have just terrible names,

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<v Speaker 2>battled each other for years in what broadsheet journalists actually

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<v Speaker 2>dubbed the Biscuit Wars at the time, and it got

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<v Speaker 2>so bad that Jacob had to take a step back

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<v Speaker 2>from American Biscuit for health reasons, and Joseph, now in control,

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<v Speaker 2>decides to make peace and merge with the other two

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<v Speaker 2>companies in eighteen ninety eight, a move Jacob vehemently protested

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<v Speaker 2>against from his sick bed.

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't this like the plot of The Godfather very much?

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<v Speaker 2>So?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, Sonny trying to make peace with the other families.

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<v Speaker 2>While how they massacred my boy. Yeah uh, he said

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<v Speaker 2>that about Chipshy later. So the merger nevertheless goes through

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<v Speaker 2>and the three companies become the National Biscuit Company. Nah bisco,

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<v Speaker 2>I get it. There's no way to say that that

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't sound like a cult indoctrination. Forever forever, bah ram

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<v Speaker 2>you nah Bisco. Anyway, Joseph installs himself uh lawyer Adolphus

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<v Speaker 2>dream of.

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<v Speaker 3>Us nah Bisco and some other ex buddies of Jacob's,

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<v Speaker 3>and the company builds an enormous factory in what is

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<v Speaker 3>now the Chelsea Market and is well on its way

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<v Speaker 3>to national dominance.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this building in Manhattan is absolutely massive. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>full city block, and that stretch of Ninth Avenue is

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<v Speaker 1>named Orio Way in its honor. And interesting point of fact,

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<v Speaker 1>the birthplace of the Oreo is now owned by Google.

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<v Speaker 1>They were just the building in twenty eighteen for two

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<v Speaker 1>point four billion.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what That's a spicy cookie.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a little block of meatpacking district Manhattan costs, I suppose.

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<v Speaker 3>Boy.

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<v Speaker 2>So, Nabisco launches the wildly popular Barnums animal crackers in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen three, although that is like most things this company does,

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<v Speaker 2>a ripoff of an existing British cookie. Fig Newton's also

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<v Speaker 2>come up around this time, and then in nineteen twelve

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<v Speaker 2>both Laura Dunes and Oreos so quite a batting average

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<v Speaker 2>out of the gate.

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<v Speaker 1>But all those cookies are trash. I mean, especially Fignutons

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<v Speaker 1>are popular to eat at the beach because it already

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<v Speaker 1>tastes like you're eating sand, So now I can tell

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<v Speaker 1>when there's already sand in it. Yeah, I mean, Laura Dunes,

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<v Speaker 1>I can't believe those are still being made. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think there's anybody under the age of seventy

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<v Speaker 1>who eats those. I hate all these cookies. Oreos gets

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<v Speaker 1>a pass just out of nostalgia alone. But yeah, interesting

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<v Speaker 1>fact about the sort of democratic way that the BISCO

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<v Speaker 1>goes about developing products. There was an article that appeared

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<v Speaker 1>in a nineteen thirty one issue of The New Yorker

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<v Speaker 1>written by E. B. White, the man who wrote Charlotte's Web,

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<v Speaker 1>and he describes his visit to the BISCO headquarters in

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<v Speaker 1>New York and the very kind of casual way that

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<v Speaker 1>employees could suggest new cookie ideas. Presumably there was like

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<v Speaker 1>a suggestion box, and then the bakers would make them

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<v Speaker 1>and then test these products out by basically just leaving

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<v Speaker 1>them out in the breakroom and watching to see how

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<v Speaker 1>many were eaten. And EB White writes in this piece,

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<v Speaker 1>a baker makes up a trial batch off the new

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<v Speaker 1>model and sends them upstairs, where they're placed in an

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<v Speaker 1>open rack by the water cooler. Employees may help themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>Everything is informal. There are no charts or tables. After

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<v Speaker 1>a few days of elapse, the heads of the department

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<v Speaker 1>simply meet and talk the thing over. As soon as

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<v Speaker 1>the cookie has passed its test, it gets a name.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll talk more about the Orio name later. That's how

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<v Speaker 1>Pablo Escobar ran his business too.

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<v Speaker 2>But Jacob in the meantime heals up and from his deathbed,

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<v Speaker 2>rises with a vengeance and launches another new biscuit company

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<v Speaker 2>with another guy and calls it the Loose Wiles Biscuit Company.

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<v Speaker 2>They really got to work on these names. But with

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<v Speaker 2>the burning hatred and drive born of this Cane and

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<v Speaker 2>Able esque story, he brings the Loose Wiles Biscuit Company

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<v Speaker 2>up into the number two biscuit slot in the country

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<v Speaker 2>behind Nobisco, largely on the strength of one cookie, a

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<v Speaker 2>shortbread and cream sandwich with an ornate stamp design called Hydrus.

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<v Speaker 2>So we have to backtrack here because the quiet part

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<v Speaker 2>loud about Oreos is that they are a total ripoff

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<v Speaker 2>of Hydrugs. They came out in nineteen oh eight. NBISCO

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<v Speaker 2>files a trademark on Oreo in nineteen twelve, and it

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<v Speaker 2>is granted in nineteen thirteen. The first Oreo was sold

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<v Speaker 2>on March sixth, nineteen twelve, to a grosser in Hoboken,

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<v Speaker 2>New Jersey.

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<v Speaker 1>They were sold by weight, originally at a cost of

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<v Speaker 1>two dollars and thirty five cents for nine and a

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<v Speaker 1>quarter pounds. The oreos cost a dollar eady five and

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<v Speaker 1>the tin they came in costs another fifty cents. The

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<v Speaker 1>original oreos were ever so slightly larger than the ones

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<v Speaker 1>we enjoyed today, and most importantly to me, they went

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<v Speaker 1>on sale just a month before the Titanic set sale

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<v Speaker 1>on her maiden voyage meeting. There's quite possibly remains of

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<v Speaker 1>early Oreo packaging on the ocean floor, although it departed

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<v Speaker 1>from the UK, so it doubtful got over there, but

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<v Speaker 1>people on board the Titanic may have been aware of oreos,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's good enough for me.

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<v Speaker 2>They were eating hydrugs. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to recap for a second, just because

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<v Speaker 1>this story, mostly due to the really terrible corporate names,

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<v Speaker 1>can be a little hard to follow, but it's amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>So two brothers start a cookie company, a cookie conglomerate.

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<v Speaker 1>The older brother works so hard that he then has

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<v Speaker 1>to take a step back. He's he's worked himself to

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<v Speaker 1>the bone. His younger brother makes peace with all the

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<v Speaker 1>competing other cookie companies and they merge against the older

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<v Speaker 1>brother's wishes. The older brother gets well, and he's so

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<v Speaker 1>angry that his younger brother has sold his own company

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<v Speaker 1>out from underneath him that he makes a competing company

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<v Speaker 1>to take them on. And this competing company has made

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<v Speaker 1>basically what's the prototype of Oreo, known as hydrox. I

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<v Speaker 1>just think that's amazing. Canaan Abele doesn't even begin to

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<v Speaker 1>cover it.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's what's funny about this. Hydrugs were far more successful

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<v Speaker 2>than oreos at the time. The real power behind the

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<v Speaker 2>throne at this point is the Jewish community. In nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four, Loose Wiles, the company behind hydrox, partnered with

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<v Speaker 2>the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America to create

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<v Speaker 2>the country's first kosher certification program, which, because hydroxes don't

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<v Speaker 2>use lard in their cream whereas oreos did, made hydroxes

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<v Speaker 2>enormously popular among the Jewish community, and this contributed to

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<v Speaker 2>their early market dominance. Nibisco attempted to hitch the Oreo

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<v Speaker 2>name to a bunch of their other more successful products

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<v Speaker 2>in displays and advertisements. There's a wonderful anecdote of this

0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:18.120
<v Speaker 2>copy from Serious Eats. One in nineteen fourteen, one stores

0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.480
<v Speaker 2>found itself with a surfeit of Oreos to the tune

0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.040
<v Speaker 2>of seven hundred tins, so they slashed the price and

0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:29.880
<v Speaker 2>literally berated their customers into trying to buy them. Yesterday,

0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.760
<v Speaker 2>we advertised those splendid oreos and they were a great bargain.

0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.480
<v Speaker 2>While we sold a few, they didn't move anything like

0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.760
<v Speaker 2>we expected. It's simply a case of you not knowing

0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:44.080
<v Speaker 2>what a fine biscuit delicacy they are. The customer, they're

0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:47.880
<v Speaker 2>literally the principal skinner meme. Is this cookie bad? No,

0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:53.480
<v Speaker 2>it's the customer who is wrong. I love that, But

0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.880
<v Speaker 2>you know they hydrouck Span. These guys, they bungled an

0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.920
<v Speaker 2>early lead man. It's rough, yeah, I mean for starters.

0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:07.640
<v Speaker 2>There's that truly horrendous name, Hydrox. It sounds terrible on

0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.880
<v Speaker 2>the page, It looks terrible. It looks like a Greek

0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:13.880
<v Speaker 2>monster with like six heads.

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.559
<v Speaker 1>It's awful. They were looking for a product name that

0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:22.520
<v Speaker 1>would evoke purity and goodness and good lord. They failed,

0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:23.800
<v Speaker 1>but they.

0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Maybe they succeeded too much and just evoked antiseptic sterility.

0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Right because I guess the name hydros came from the

0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.600
<v Speaker 1>atomic elements of water, hydrogen and oxygen high DROs. And

0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:40.360
<v Speaker 1>this was surprisingly given how ugly it sounds and how

0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.720
<v Speaker 1>it does not roll off the tongue in any way,

0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:44.720
<v Speaker 1>it was actually a really common name at the time.

0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:49.199
<v Speaker 1>There was the hydrox arated table water. There was hydrox

0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:54.360
<v Speaker 1>ice cream, Oh God, and hydrox ginger ale, and as

0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned, has a very antiseptic medical connotation and not

0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.320
<v Speaker 1>something that you want connected with confections. So perhaps because

0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.840
<v Speaker 1>of the whole Warring Brothers thing for fifty years, loose

0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.959
<v Speaker 1>Wiles really leaned on the whole copycat aspect of oreos.

0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 1>They were really promoting hydrogs as the original beware of imitators.

0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.440
<v Speaker 1>There was one ad that featured a bear cub literally

0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:21.800
<v Speaker 1>crying over stolen crease, and their ad copy use words

0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.640
<v Speaker 1>like first and the finest, and the original and the

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.840
<v Speaker 1>only and the classic and Warren consumers don't be fooled

0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.480
<v Speaker 1>by lookalikes.

0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 2>So much finger wagging, I love it or did, however,

0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:39.600
<v Speaker 2>I throat cookie World. Yeah, exactly, Jacob. The same year

0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.680
<v Speaker 2>Jacob dies, the older brother who quit his body not

0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.960
<v Speaker 2>even cold in the grave, Oreo sends out a series

0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.520
<v Speaker 2>of ads that would change the world. With no exaggeration.

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:55.400
<v Speaker 2>I say this. They promote the classic Oreo twist method

0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:57.600
<v Speaker 2>of eating. It's on street cars. I believe it is

0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.240
<v Speaker 2>the big one saying everybody's doing the Oreo twist. Maybe

0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.480
<v Speaker 2>they didn't say that. I don't know, but that's where

0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.920
<v Speaker 2>the twist dates back to his nineteen twenty three coincidentally,

0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.960
<v Speaker 2>the same year the brother dies. I just this whole

0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.280
<v Speaker 2>thing is so Shakespearean.

0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:13.400
<v Speaker 1>They did the Oreo twist on his grave.

0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:19.200
<v Speaker 2>Hey. By twenty fourteen, the Hydros name had fallen so

0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:24.080
<v Speaker 2>far that Keebler Kellogg's let the trademark lapse and it

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.840
<v Speaker 2>was snapped up by Leaf Brands, who four years later

0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:32.160
<v Speaker 2>filed a complaint with the FTC against Oreos, alleging that

0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 2>they hid Hydrox companies from customers on store shelves.

0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh, they hid Hydrox cookies from customers.

0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:39.360
<v Speaker 2>That was the basis of the suit. I don't know

0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.000
<v Speaker 2>if it was actually settled, but man talk about with

0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.960
<v Speaker 2>my last breath. I stab at THEE from Hell's Dark Heart,

0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 2>I stab at thee. They went. They just Hydrox versus Oreo.

0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Few to the century.

0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 1>Wow, Yeah, I mean this was the Coke Pepsi of

0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:57.800
<v Speaker 1>the early twentieth century. We're going to take a quick break,

0:15:57.960 --> 0:15:59.880
<v Speaker 1>but we'll be right back with more, too much of

0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:01.280
<v Speaker 1>in just a moment.

0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Wow. With hydrux dead and buried, Oreos were free to blossom.

0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:17.800
<v Speaker 2>So shortan tell us about that.

0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.600
<v Speaker 1>Yes, the Oreo went my many variations of their famous

0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:23.840
<v Speaker 1>name over the years. When they were first introduced in

0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.680
<v Speaker 1>nineteen twelve, they were simply known as the Oreo biscuit,

0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.840
<v Speaker 1>and then by nineteen twenty one the cookie embraced its

0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.120
<v Speaker 1>shape and it was renamed the Oreo Sandwich, and in

0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirty seven the name was changed again to the

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:40.920
<v Speaker 1>distinctively high brow Oreo cream Sandwich. And I was saying

0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:42.360
<v Speaker 1>earlier at the top of the episode this was a

0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.920
<v Speaker 1>way to play off the British biscuits that were served

0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.960
<v Speaker 1>at tea time, and upon their initial launch, Oreos were

0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.280
<v Speaker 1>marketed as fairly high end. There's this amazing bit of

0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.000
<v Speaker 1>ad copy from I think around nineteen twelve, when they

0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.880
<v Speaker 1>were first unveiled and it describes the Oreo as quote

0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:02.760
<v Speaker 1>two beautifully embossed chalk flavored wafers with a rich cream filling,

0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.560
<v Speaker 1>which is over selling Oreos slightly. And the final official

0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.680
<v Speaker 1>name changed to Oreos came in nineteen seventy four when

0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.639
<v Speaker 1>the cookie became known as the Oreo Chocolate Sandwich Cookie,

0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.399
<v Speaker 1>or Oreo for short, and that's its official name to

0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:20.679
<v Speaker 1>this very day. Anyway, while we're on the topic of names,

0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.240
<v Speaker 1>it's still anybody's guess where the term Oreo came from,

0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 1>but there are many theories. It could be derived from

0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:29.880
<v Speaker 1>the French word for gold, which was an early decorative

0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.440
<v Speaker 1>element for the Oreo packaging. But here's a grab bag

0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.359
<v Speaker 1>of other explanations that are out there. There's one theory

0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.480
<v Speaker 1>that says that the name stemmed from the hill shaped

0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.320
<v Speaker 1>test version that never made it to store shelves. I

0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.200
<v Speaker 1>guess the cream was piled up like a little mountain

0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.800
<v Speaker 1>and that inspired this cookie prototype to be named Oreo,

0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.480
<v Speaker 1>which is the Greek word from mountain. So that's one theory.

0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.119
<v Speaker 1>There's another theory that says that the word Oreo is

0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:58.840
<v Speaker 1>a combination of the ra from cream and sandwiching. It

0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.000
<v Speaker 1>just like the cookie between the two o's in chocolate.

0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh from chocolate, ree from cream, oh from chocolate. It's

0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:12.480
<v Speaker 1>a verbal visual pun. It's not I I you don't know,

0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:12.800
<v Speaker 1>I might.

0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:13.960
<v Speaker 2>I just want to say I want you to do

0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:19.280
<v Speaker 2>you're doing like the drunk don draper like hand gesturing is.

0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.160
<v Speaker 2>It's just like the two o's and chocolate. It makes

0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:28.960
<v Speaker 2>makes story. Roger Sterling throws up in the lobby.

0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:31.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean that's probably how this was name.

0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.199
<v Speaker 2>Right, They're all on cocaine. Just zut it up, like,

0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:37.959
<v Speaker 2>what should we call it?

0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Areo h very number three? It stands for a rexigenic,

0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.840
<v Speaker 1>which is a medical term for substances that stimulate the appetite.

0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.440
<v Speaker 1>I would tend to want to dismiss this out of hand,

0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:55.680
<v Speaker 1>but considering hydrox.

0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:59.159
<v Speaker 3>Was his competitive name, uh maybe, Well, way do you

0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.000
<v Speaker 3>get to the plant conspiracy theory, which is the next one?

0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, this is a really good one. This is

0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.399
<v Speaker 1>your personal favorite and probably mine too. The decorations on

0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.040
<v Speaker 1>the top of hydrox the hydrox cookie at that point

0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.679
<v Speaker 1>included a mountain laurel. And guess what genus of plant

0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:21.120
<v Speaker 1>they belonged to? The mountain laurel. That's right, Oreo, Daphni, Oreo,

0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.439
<v Speaker 1>daphne uh. And this was bolstered by the fact that

0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.520
<v Speaker 1>someone in Nibisco clearly had a thing for plants. Of

0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.320
<v Speaker 1>the cookies that Nibisco offered in nineteen thirteen, there's the Avena,

0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:38.280
<v Speaker 1>the lotus, the helicon, the zephyrett, the zatona, the aola,

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:42.000
<v Speaker 1>the ramona, and Oreo, and those are all Latin or

0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.159
<v Speaker 1>Botany names for different kinds of plants.

0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:46.960
<v Speaker 2>I just love the idea that there's like one drunk

0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.960
<v Speaker 2>guy in the Nobisco copywriting thing. He's like, I'm gonna

0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:54.600
<v Speaker 2>name for plants no one will know. While we're on

0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.240
<v Speaker 2>the topic of that embossing that beautiful lorel wreath, it

0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of looks like a manhole cover at this point.

0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.560
<v Speaker 2>When they launched, Oreos used a much more organic plant

0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.119
<v Speaker 2>derived wreath for the emboss adding two pairs of turtle

0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:11.040
<v Speaker 2>doves in a nineteen twenty four redesign. The contemporary Oreo

0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.080
<v Speaker 2>stamp was introduced in nineteen fifty two and it has

0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.159
<v Speaker 2>remained unchanged ever since.

0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Every Oriole cookie contains ninety ridges, twelve flowers, twelve dashes,

0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:24.760
<v Speaker 1>and twelve dots. I feel like that's going to be

0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.240
<v Speaker 1>a great trivia question at some bar trivia somewhere.

0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.920
<v Speaker 2>So remember that it's probably some kind of satanic numbering thing.

0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:32.679
<v Speaker 1>We'll get to that.

0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Many people on the internet credit a man named William

0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.399
<v Speaker 2>Turnier who started as a mailboy at Nabisco with the

0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.720
<v Speaker 2>four leaf clover and serrated edge design. But Nabisco is

0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 2>cagy about it. They will only confirm that a man

0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.880
<v Speaker 2>by that name worked for the company during that time

0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.480
<v Speaker 2>as a design engineer. In a very granular bit of

0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:55.640
<v Speaker 2>Internet dorkery, in the comments section of a twenty eleven

0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.439
<v Speaker 2>New York Times magazine article about the Oreo embossing, a

0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:03.679
<v Speaker 2>guy aiming to be William Turnier's son, Bill said that

0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.000
<v Speaker 2>the original blueprints for the cookie are in his possession

0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:08.119
<v Speaker 2>in North Carolina.

0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Did you go into the comment section of this twenty

0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.800
<v Speaker 1>eleven New York Times magazine article about the oreo and bossing,

0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:16.920
<v Speaker 1>I just protu scanning all the comment good.

0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Magician never reveals his secrets, Okay.

0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.400
<v Speaker 1>But William Turnier's son, the aforementioned Bill, was interviewed by

0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.080
<v Speaker 1>Mental Floss, and he said that the design on oreos

0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:31.439
<v Speaker 1>quote goes back to monks who used it on the

0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.720
<v Speaker 1>bottom of manuscripts they copied in medieval times. It was

0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.000
<v Speaker 1>a sign of craft saying they did the best they could.

0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:41.520
<v Speaker 1>And there are some out there Internet sleuths, most likely

0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.480
<v Speaker 1>who have noted the similarities between the Oreo design and

0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.920
<v Speaker 1>the graphics used by the Freemasons and the Knights Templar,

0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:54.040
<v Speaker 1>thus linking the beloved cookie with the Crusades, which I

0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.320
<v Speaker 1>did not expect when we started this episode.

0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Bill also claimed that his dad modified the animal Cracker's box.

0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.080
<v Speaker 2>His contribution to that was adding the grass along the bottom,

0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.359
<v Speaker 2>designed the logo for Nutter Butters and Milk Bones, and

0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.240
<v Speaker 2>may have contributed to the design for the Rich Cracker.

0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:14.880
<v Speaker 2>William Senior left the East Coast and settled in Salt

0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Lake City, where his grave marker features an Oreo. Bizarrely enough,

0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:24.919
<v Speaker 2>given their seeming silence on crediting him, Bill claims that

0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:29.240
<v Speaker 2>Nabisco contacted his dad at one point to help confirm

0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.439
<v Speaker 2>aspects of the Oreo's design in order to build a

0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:36.960
<v Speaker 2>lawsuit against a company making a copycat cookie in Trinidad

0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:41.560
<v Speaker 2>and Tobago. Turn about his fair play Nabisco, But the

0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:45.639
<v Speaker 2>only thing in the official Craft Archives four turnire is

0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:49.919
<v Speaker 2>the receipt of a Suggestion Award in nineteen seventy two

0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:53.280
<v Speaker 2>for an idea that increased the production of nilla wafers

0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:59.320
<v Speaker 2>on company machinery by thirteen percent. So the company reaches

0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:00.960
<v Speaker 2>out to him. They're like, hey, do you have the

0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:03.600
<v Speaker 2>original blueprint for Oreos someone is trying to copy as

0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:05.680
<v Speaker 2>a Trinidad and Tobaggo. He's like, sure, I'll help you up,

0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:09.440
<v Speaker 2>and they still like disavow his credit for that. But yeah,

0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:13.200
<v Speaker 2>So between Oreos, milk bones, nut butters, animal crackers, ritz crackers,

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:18.199
<v Speaker 2>and increasing the productivity of nilla wafers in nineteen seventy

0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:22.840
<v Speaker 2>two by whopping thirteen percent, William Turnier maybe the secret

0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:26.119
<v Speaker 2>MVP of the Oreos story. I just wanted to do.

0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:29.520
<v Speaker 2>I want to do my transition. Here is ding doom

0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:33.159
<v Speaker 2>ding ding ding ding dom ding ding all right on

0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:38.160
<v Speaker 2>my way? Dum. I would say that was terrible cut

0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:40.480
<v Speaker 2>that that might went over much better in my head.

0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:43.320
<v Speaker 2>The name of the heading is Ori on my Way,

0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:47.720
<v Speaker 2>like the song that's I'm rust send me on my Way.

0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:51.360
<v Speaker 2>That's that's not Rusted Root, is it? Yeah?

0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:54.640
<v Speaker 1>I saw Rusted Root as a kid. No way, Yeah,

0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:57.600
<v Speaker 1>how'd that go for you's I'm sitting here talking to you.

0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:07.080
<v Speaker 2>Great, all right, that digression well and truly dead. Now

0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:08.560
<v Speaker 2>we arrive at the real heart of the matter.

0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes, the Oreo filling really the only good part of Oreos,

0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:15.160
<v Speaker 1>if we're all being honest with ourselves.

0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:17.840
<v Speaker 2>This is the most heated you have been about anything

0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:20.600
<v Speaker 2>in the months we've been doing this podcast.

0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:23.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think there's there's no reason why Oreos

0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:25.080
<v Speaker 1>should be as big as they are. There's there's some

0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:29.119
<v Speaker 1>part in effectively every way, just get on with it.

0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:34.360
<v Speaker 1>But yes, the Oreo filling. The man credited with its

0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:39.800
<v Speaker 1>modern incarnation is named mister Sam Porcello. First of all,

0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:42.199
<v Speaker 1>did you know that there's a reason why cream in

0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:46.600
<v Speaker 1>Oreo is spelled cr e e because it contains no

0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:51.199
<v Speaker 1>dairy and therefore cannot be marketed using the spelling of cream,

0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:57.400
<v Speaker 1>which implies that cash is everywhere around me. Also, while

0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:00.880
<v Speaker 1>we're on the topic of cream, each original Oreo cookie

0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:05.040
<v Speaker 1>is twenty nine percent cream and seventy one percent cookie.

0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:08.680
<v Speaker 1>That is the official ratio, and Oreo bakeries make more

0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:12.119
<v Speaker 1>than one hundred and twenty three thousand tons of cream

0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:15.199
<v Speaker 1>to fill their cookies each year. That's incredible.

0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:18.840
<v Speaker 2>I want you to Viking funeral me into the Oreo cream.

0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Event it just put me on a pire and sent

0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:23.760
<v Speaker 2>me on fire in the middle of one of those.

0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:28.920
<v Speaker 1>The gentleman who's credited with creating the modern incarnation of

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:32.840
<v Speaker 1>the Oreo cream mister Sam Porcello. He arrived at Nabisco

0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:36.159
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen fifty nine and worked there for thirty four years,

0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:41.679
<v Speaker 1>retiring in nineteen ninety three. Porcello's actual title was Principal Scientist,

0:25:42.240 --> 0:25:45.200
<v Speaker 1>but his son described him as one of the world's

0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:49.400
<v Speaker 1>foremost experts on coco, which eventually earned him the nickname

0:25:49.600 --> 0:25:53.720
<v Speaker 1>the autorific. Really, mister Oreos.

0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:55.280
<v Speaker 2>This is where it gets really wild. Sarah Joyner is

0:25:55.359 --> 0:25:58.800
<v Speaker 2>this woman who uncovered this. It basically makes journalists look bad?

0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:03.440
<v Speaker 2>Is this whole story? So, but go ahead continue. I

0:26:03.520 --> 0:26:05.000
<v Speaker 2>just want to credit her because she really did the

0:26:05.160 --> 0:26:05.760
<v Speaker 2>leg work here.

0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:09.520
<v Speaker 1>Yes, ground zero for this whole theory that Porcello is

0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:13.320
<v Speaker 1>the guy who created the modern Oreo filling appears in

0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:17.280
<v Speaker 1>his twenty twelve obituary in the New York Daily News,

0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:20.480
<v Speaker 1>which was then picked up by the blogging community around

0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:24.720
<v Speaker 1>the world. Yes, this woman Sarah Joyner researching Pacello in

0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:28.800
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty, reached out to Mondelez, which is the parent

0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:31.680
<v Speaker 1>company of Oreo, and they told her it would be

0:26:31.800 --> 0:26:35.720
<v Speaker 1>inaccurate to say that Sam Porcello invented the modern Oreo cream,

0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:39.560
<v Speaker 1>and a former Oreo rep she was exchanging emails with

0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:44.480
<v Speaker 1>said that she hadn't even heard of Porcello. So there's

0:26:44.520 --> 0:26:46.640
<v Speaker 1>some kind of erasure going on here at this time.

0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:49.600
<v Speaker 1>Orio really isn't like crediting the people who are behind.

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:51.680
<v Speaker 1>You got the guy who invented the embossing, you get

0:26:51.680 --> 0:26:54.520
<v Speaker 1>the guy who invented the modern cream. Something's going on here,

0:26:54.800 --> 0:26:57.720
<v Speaker 1>But it turns out that the real story is, as ever,

0:26:57.960 --> 0:27:01.280
<v Speaker 1>very technical and boring. Porcello what's largest contribution to the

0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:04.320
<v Speaker 1>Orio cookie was in modifying the chemical composition of the

0:27:04.440 --> 0:27:07.600
<v Speaker 1>filling so that it was solid at room temperature but

0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:11.600
<v Speaker 1>melts ninety eight degrees as in when it hits your mouth.

0:27:12.720 --> 0:27:16.040
<v Speaker 1>But he shared those developments with three other food scientists,

0:27:16.280 --> 0:27:19.040
<v Speaker 1>and basically the credit he gets for being mister Oreo

0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:21.320
<v Speaker 1>pretty much comes down to the work of his own

0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:23.520
<v Speaker 1>family's hagiography since his death.

0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:25.959
<v Speaker 2>This whole thing is so fascinating to me because if

0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:28.960
<v Speaker 2>you look up Oreo and you look up oreo filling.

0:27:29.200 --> 0:27:32.600
<v Speaker 2>It's like lodged in seo. But the original New York

0:27:32.720 --> 0:27:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Daily News link is dead and you can only find

0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:37.440
<v Speaker 2>it through the Internet news archives. So the only link

0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:41.080
<v Speaker 2>to this story is now in like it's like playing telephone.

0:27:41.200 --> 0:27:44.440
<v Speaker 2>It's only in blogs aggregating that story. So one is

0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:50.000
<v Speaker 2>on Time, the Time magazine website. And so this woman,

0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Sarah Joyner is researching this and it basically I think

0:27:53.600 --> 0:27:56.720
<v Speaker 2>what happened was this New York Daily News guy knew

0:27:57.080 --> 0:27:59.880
<v Speaker 2>or heard or got a tip about this guy dying

0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:03.040
<v Speaker 2>and just interviewed his family, and his family was like,

0:28:03.119 --> 0:28:05.440
<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, Dad was like, mister Orio, he invented the

0:28:05.520 --> 0:28:08.760
<v Speaker 2>oreo filling. But the more you dig into it, the

0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:11.760
<v Speaker 2>more it turns out that, like he just refined the

0:28:11.840 --> 0:28:15.840
<v Speaker 2>formula with a bunch of really boring food chemistry things

0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:22.280
<v Speaker 2>related to filling solubility, and he retired nineteen ninety three, which,

0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:25.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, we get into this next thing. They take

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:27.720
<v Speaker 2>out lard in nineteen eighty four, and they take out

0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:30.520
<v Speaker 2>the vegetable oils they replaced the lard with in two

0:28:30.520 --> 0:28:34.800
<v Speaker 2>thousand and six, So by twenty twenty, his formula was

0:28:34.880 --> 0:28:39.240
<v Speaker 2>already two recipes out of date. And this woman, this

0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Sarah Joyner, is it's very sweet because she's like talking

0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:45.000
<v Speaker 2>to his son and she's like, oh yeah, like they

0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:47.960
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't have kept up with the formula changes. Like to them,

0:28:48.640 --> 0:28:51.600
<v Speaker 2>their dad is still the guy who invented the Oreo filling.

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Like their dad is still mister Oreo. They didn't mean

0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:58.880
<v Speaker 2>to mislead anyone. It was just like lazy journalism. Nobody

0:28:58.960 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 2>bothered to fact check that. And it's just I don't know,

0:29:01.480 --> 0:29:03.840
<v Speaker 2>I find it very sweet in like this American life

0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:06.640
<v Speaker 2>sort of way. Like this family from Jersey is just

0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:08.800
<v Speaker 2>like their dad is mister Oreo to them, and they

0:29:08.880 --> 0:29:10.720
<v Speaker 2>told he always will be and he always will be.

0:29:10.840 --> 0:29:13.000
<v Speaker 2>And they told a single paper and the paper didn't

0:29:13.000 --> 0:29:16.200
<v Speaker 2>bother to fact check it, and it's become fact anyway.

0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:18.000
<v Speaker 2>I just want to tell everyone that I titled this

0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:20.320
<v Speaker 2>next section a Rabbi and a blowtorch walk into a

0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:23.920
<v Speaker 2>cookie factory. Remember how I said when hydrugs were hugely

0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:27.160
<v Speaker 2>popular with the Jewish community because they were kosher, so Oreo,

0:29:27.400 --> 0:29:31.080
<v Speaker 2>in their apparently never ending quest to bury all memory

0:29:31.120 --> 0:29:34.160
<v Speaker 2>of their predecessor and salt the Earth, decided to alter

0:29:34.320 --> 0:29:38.160
<v Speaker 2>their recipe and go kosher in nineteen ninety four, years

0:29:38.200 --> 0:29:41.240
<v Speaker 2>after Burchello retired, or the year after Brichella retired.

0:29:41.160 --> 0:29:44.479
<v Speaker 1>Also nineteen eighty four, at a time when hydrocks barely exist.

0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, they're like someone was just it's like a

0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Monty Burns, Like one of the last surviving executives is

0:29:50.400 --> 0:29:54.240
<v Speaker 2>like crush jocks. This is so fascinating to me. This guy,

0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Joe Regenstein, professor of food science at Cornell and director

0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:01.840
<v Speaker 2>of the Cornell Kosher and Lull Food Initiative, called this

0:30:02.000 --> 0:30:06.640
<v Speaker 2>process probably the most expensive conversion of a company from

0:30:06.760 --> 0:30:09.480
<v Speaker 2>non kosher to kosher in in two thousand and eight interview.

0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:12.640
<v Speaker 2>And this apparently started when a number of ice cream

0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:16.000
<v Speaker 2>companies wanted to start using oreos in their products which

0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:19.880
<v Speaker 2>were kosher and couldn't because of the lar so. Nibisco

0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:23.600
<v Speaker 2>owned approximately one hundred baking ovens, each about three hundred

0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:25.600
<v Speaker 2>feet in length, and they all had to be converted

0:30:25.640 --> 0:30:28.680
<v Speaker 2>to kosher, the process that literally involved a rabbi crawling

0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:31.040
<v Speaker 2>through them with a blow torch. Because the ovens were

0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:33.680
<v Speaker 2>not kosher and baking is a dry, high heat process,

0:30:34.160 --> 0:30:35.960
<v Speaker 2>each one of these units had to be heated to

0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:39.560
<v Speaker 2>red hot temperatures. Regenstein said, you need to use a

0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:43.080
<v Speaker 2>blow torch to clean away the forbidden materials, so I

0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:49.080
<v Speaker 2>tell my therapist. Additionally, each oven contained a soft plastic

0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:52.440
<v Speaker 2>belt that cost upwards of one hundred and fifty thousand

0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:54.560
<v Speaker 2>dollars at a time, and each of these needed to

0:30:54.600 --> 0:30:57.920
<v Speaker 2>be replaced. This process took three and a half years,

0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:02.080
<v Speaker 2>wound up in nineteen ninety seven, after which I guess

0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:04.560
<v Speaker 2>they got Zelda Reubinstein from the Poltergeist movie to come

0:31:04.600 --> 0:31:07.000
<v Speaker 2>in and be like, this house is clean.

0:31:07.800 --> 0:31:10.760
<v Speaker 1>This all brings us to a larger question, how do

0:31:10.800 --> 0:31:14.160
<v Speaker 1>you make an oreo? Well, obviously, the official ingredient list

0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:16.360
<v Speaker 1>is a closely guarded secret, and if we told you,

0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:20.080
<v Speaker 1>we'd have to kill you. But there are eleven major ingredients.

0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:25.680
<v Speaker 1>The hours follows sugar, unbleached flour, canola oil, high fructose

0:31:25.720 --> 0:31:31.240
<v Speaker 1>corn syrup, baking soda, corn start, soile, liketin, vanillin, and chocolate.

0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:34.840
<v Speaker 1>And in an article celebrating the seventy fifth birthday of

0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:38.280
<v Speaker 1>oreos from back in nineteen eighty six, this piece describes

0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:42.400
<v Speaker 1>five hundred degree gas ovens as long as football fields,

0:31:42.840 --> 0:31:46.680
<v Speaker 1>capable of cranking out two thousand cookies a minute, and

0:31:46.920 --> 0:31:49.560
<v Speaker 1>to quote the piece an oreo takes less than an

0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:52.479
<v Speaker 1>hour to make a half hour of mixing in bins

0:31:52.560 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 1>the size of Volkswagen beetles, and another twenty minutes on

0:31:55.960 --> 0:31:59.000
<v Speaker 1>the conveyor belts being pressed into shape and then bobbing

0:31:59.080 --> 0:32:01.720
<v Speaker 1>along from the third floor to the first, through ovens

0:32:01.760 --> 0:32:05.160
<v Speaker 1>and cooling tunnels, under the icing drum, and into machines

0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:09.040
<v Speaker 1>that stack and deal oreos like cards into cellophane packages.

0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:12.040
<v Speaker 1>But the five folks at Nabisco have a rigid approach

0:32:12.120 --> 0:32:16.000
<v Speaker 1>to quality control, and there are quote bins the size

0:32:16.040 --> 0:32:19.800
<v Speaker 1>of hot tubs filled with broken oreo wafers, and some

0:32:19.920 --> 0:32:21.840
<v Speaker 1>of these are ground up and reused in the batter,

0:32:22.200 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 1>while others are sold to ice cream companies to be

0:32:24.760 --> 0:32:28.240
<v Speaker 1>crumbled and mixed into their ice cream. But about five

0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:31.160
<v Speaker 1>percent of the cookies wind up b and R or

0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:36.560
<v Speaker 1>broken and rejected and thrown away, And says haven't we

0:32:36.600 --> 0:32:38.440
<v Speaker 1>all been b and R at one time or another?

0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:43.680
<v Speaker 4>As you meditate on that, we'll be right back with

0:32:43.800 --> 0:32:56.440
<v Speaker 4>more too much information after these messages. Next step we

0:32:56.600 --> 0:32:59.320
<v Speaker 4>have a little section called Karma commer Comma, Karma, karma

0:32:59.400 --> 0:33:00.760
<v Speaker 4>cavig Nope.

0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:02.840
<v Speaker 2>That was terrible. Don't I swear to God if you

0:33:02.880 --> 0:33:06.040
<v Speaker 2>don't cut that. They replaced the lard with partially hydrogenated

0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:09.920
<v Speaker 2>vegetable oil, and then they subsequently replace that in two

0:33:09.920 --> 0:33:13.760
<v Speaker 2>thousand and six with healthier and more expensive non hydrogenated

0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:16.160
<v Speaker 2>vegetable oil. Folks, if you're waiting for an explanation for

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:18.320
<v Speaker 2>what those terms are, wait longer, because I don't have it.

0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:23.480
<v Speaker 2>This came after the FDA in two thousand and three

0:33:23.600 --> 0:33:27.400
<v Speaker 2>had announced new labeling requirements that required manufacturers to list

0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:29.600
<v Speaker 2>transfats on their packaging.

0:33:29.440 --> 0:33:32.000
<v Speaker 1>Which are closely linked to heart disease. Especially They're fine

0:33:32.040 --> 0:33:34.560
<v Speaker 1>with doing it until they're being ordered to actually, well.

0:33:34.520 --> 0:33:37.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're doing it, yeah, every single company in the world.

0:33:37.600 --> 0:33:41.000
<v Speaker 2>So at some point this change in formula gave rise

0:33:41.040 --> 0:33:43.320
<v Speaker 2>to the claim that Oreos are vegan, which is like

0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:45.960
<v Speaker 2>one of the most commonly recited talking points about them.

0:33:46.120 --> 0:33:49.920
<v Speaker 2>But according to at least one check of their UK website,

0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:53.200
<v Speaker 2>there's just the possibility of cross contaminations with dairy products

0:33:53.280 --> 0:33:57.200
<v Speaker 2>at their facilities, and one extremely hard line vegan blog

0:33:57.280 --> 0:34:02.160
<v Speaker 2>that I found they contacted the OREO directly in twenty

0:34:02.240 --> 0:34:06.600
<v Speaker 2>ten and got the answer that, unfortunately for the militant

0:34:06.640 --> 0:34:10.760
<v Speaker 2>vegans among us. Some of the enzymes used to condition

0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:15.920
<v Speaker 2>dough in processed goods are animal derived, so you've got

0:34:16.320 --> 0:34:19.279
<v Speaker 2>the blood of microscopic organisms on your hands. And some

0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:24.279
<v Speaker 2>sugar suppliers use the animal derived natural charcoal bone jar

0:34:24.800 --> 0:34:29.279
<v Speaker 2>in their sugar cane refining process. So depending on your

0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:32.040
<v Speaker 2>tolerance for animal products, and we are literally talking parts

0:34:32.080 --> 0:34:34.640
<v Speaker 2>per million. But if you're nothing, no shame. If you're

0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:36.560
<v Speaker 2>one of those people who's like, I want everything, I

0:34:36.600 --> 0:34:38.560
<v Speaker 2>need to be completely free of the blood of animals,

0:34:39.200 --> 0:34:43.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't think Oreos your ticket there. Speaking of enormous

0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:47.480
<v Speaker 2>multinational corporations, there is an entertaining story of some corporate

0:34:47.560 --> 0:34:52.920
<v Speaker 2>subterfuge that entangled Oreo recently. Recently ish in twenty fourteen,

0:34:53.320 --> 0:34:56.440
<v Speaker 2>two California men were sentenced to prison time after stealing

0:34:56.520 --> 0:35:00.520
<v Speaker 2>the formula for a chemical whitening agent called typ titanium

0:35:00.680 --> 0:35:05.120
<v Speaker 2>dioxide from American chemical company du Pont. So this titanium

0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:09.000
<v Speaker 2>oxide dioxide from DuPont specifically is like the purest, like

0:35:09.120 --> 0:35:12.480
<v Speaker 2>most sought after white pigment in the world, and it's

0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:15.600
<v Speaker 2>jealously guarded, and so these guys broke in there and

0:35:15.719 --> 0:35:19.160
<v Speaker 2>sold the formula to Pengang Group, a Chinese company that

0:35:19.280 --> 0:35:23.000
<v Speaker 2>had been unsuccessfully trying to buy this formula for over

0:35:23.120 --> 0:35:26.480
<v Speaker 2>twenty million dollars. The conviction of these men in the

0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:30.120
<v Speaker 2>court documents subsequently leaked to the fact that Oreo used

0:35:30.160 --> 0:35:33.440
<v Speaker 2>this chemical to whiten their filling and had hit it

0:35:33.640 --> 0:35:38.480
<v Speaker 2>from the ingredients list, which caused some concern because recent

0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:44.040
<v Speaker 2>studies have flagged it as a carcinogen. So all is

0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:47.320
<v Speaker 2>not as pure white as the driven filling.

0:35:50.120 --> 0:35:53.840
<v Speaker 1>And speaking of oreos and countries with communist ties with

0:35:53.960 --> 0:35:57.279
<v Speaker 1>whom we have a troubled relationship, did you know that

0:35:57.520 --> 0:36:02.560
<v Speaker 1>oreos apparently weren't officially available in Russia until twenty fifteen?

0:36:03.680 --> 0:36:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Did you?

0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:04.719
<v Speaker 2>Did you?

0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:05.080
<v Speaker 1>Did you.

0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Look at me when I'm talking to you?

0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:13.839
<v Speaker 1>China got them a little earlier in nineteen ninety six,

0:36:14.080 --> 0:36:16.920
<v Speaker 1>but they tanked when they were first released, to the

0:36:17.000 --> 0:36:20.360
<v Speaker 1>point that they actually considered withdrawing Oreos from Chinese stores

0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:24.120
<v Speaker 1>all together, but instead in the Bisco parent company at

0:36:24.120 --> 0:36:28.600
<v Speaker 1>the time, Kraft decided to take a very ironically democratic

0:36:28.640 --> 0:36:33.360
<v Speaker 1>approach and ask the Chinese consumers what they didn't like

0:36:33.440 --> 0:36:36.200
<v Speaker 1>about Oreos so they could adapt them for that market,

0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:39.960
<v Speaker 1>And after receiving feedback, they invented a new kind of

0:36:40.040 --> 0:36:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Oreo to appeal to China, and it's more like a wafer.

0:36:43.960 --> 0:36:47.400
<v Speaker 1>It's four layers of a crispy cookie with a vanilla

0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:50.680
<v Speaker 1>or chocolate cream center in the middle, not unlike a pirouette.

0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:53.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, those kind of long cigar shaped things. Yeah,

0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:55.800
<v Speaker 1>it's like that. It's very, very, very different from the

0:36:55.840 --> 0:36:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Oreo we know in love. By two thousand and six,

0:36:58.920 --> 0:37:02.760
<v Speaker 1>this Oreo wafer had become the best selling biscuit in China,

0:37:03.480 --> 0:37:06.640
<v Speaker 1>just after a decade after they were considering withdrawing from

0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:09.720
<v Speaker 1>the market altogether. They were now number one and Kraft

0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:12.759
<v Speaker 1>expanded the production of this adapted cookie into other parts

0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:16.520
<v Speaker 1>of Asia, Australia and even Canada. And they were all

0:37:16.560 --> 0:37:19.880
<v Speaker 1>sorts of interesting international flavors of oreos. There is blueberry

0:37:19.960 --> 0:37:24.200
<v Speaker 1>ice cream and coconut delight in Indonesia, Argentina has a

0:37:24.560 --> 0:37:28.759
<v Speaker 1>duo flavor Dulce de leche and banana, and China has

0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:32.880
<v Speaker 1>green tea flavored and mango. And in August of twenty eighteen,

0:37:32.960 --> 0:37:37.919
<v Speaker 1>they released two savory flavored Oreo fillings, hot chicken wing

0:37:38.719 --> 0:37:43.600
<v Speaker 1>and wasabi, which Jesus Christ. This leads us to our

0:37:43.760 --> 0:37:47.240
<v Speaker 1>patented section on gross Oreo flavors.

0:37:47.280 --> 0:37:51.080
<v Speaker 2>All right, so the original failure was a lemon I

0:37:51.120 --> 0:37:53.400
<v Speaker 2>think they made lemon moringe. They call it lemon morine

0:37:53.600 --> 0:37:55.759
<v Speaker 2>Oreo in nineteen twenties, which discontinued.

0:37:55.920 --> 0:37:58.439
<v Speaker 1>I think that was released alongside like the chocolate Oreo

0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:00.560
<v Speaker 1>when they first dropped in nineteen twelve.

0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Satists Golden Oreos are vanilla cookies with the same vanilla

0:38:06.480 --> 0:38:09.839
<v Speaker 2>cream as the original Oreos. Golden chocolate cream oreos, known

0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:12.919
<v Speaker 2>as the quote uh oh Oreo until two thousand and seven,

0:38:13.280 --> 0:38:15.920
<v Speaker 2>are the reverse of the original cookie vanilla cookies chocolate

0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:18.880
<v Speaker 2>cream frosting. But here's what you folks have been waiting for.

0:38:19.120 --> 0:38:22.400
<v Speaker 2>A semi complete list of other Oreo flavors, running the

0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:26.040
<v Speaker 2>gamut from mildly offbeat to fully disgusting. There's the famous

0:38:26.080 --> 0:38:31.400
<v Speaker 2>birthday cake oreos good, Swedish fish, bad cream, sickle, banana

0:38:31.440 --> 0:38:33.600
<v Speaker 2>split cream, really bad, Neapolitan.

0:38:33.960 --> 0:38:34.200
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:36.759
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know what triple double means. I guess

0:38:36.760 --> 0:38:37.800
<v Speaker 2>that's triple stuff.

0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:42.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, good, good best so far. Candy corn No,

0:38:42.640 --> 0:38:45.839
<v Speaker 1>I don't like candy corn as a standalone thing. Oreo

0:38:45.920 --> 0:38:49.440
<v Speaker 1>as a subpar cookie coconut fudge. Sure, aren't those just

0:38:50.440 --> 0:38:53.160
<v Speaker 1>hop lungs or dosy does or whatever from the growth

0:38:53.200 --> 0:38:55.839
<v Speaker 1>cut cookies? Oh no, those are samoas and those are

0:38:55.880 --> 0:38:57.439
<v Speaker 1>way better. But that's fine.

0:38:57.760 --> 0:39:04.279
<v Speaker 2>Gingerbread, sure, candy cane, white fudge covered Okay, yeah, I

0:39:04.280 --> 0:39:06.759
<v Speaker 2>don't even know how you do this. Cookies and cream oreos.

0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:09.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't either, because that's cookies and cream is Oreo flavored,

0:39:10.000 --> 0:39:11.360
<v Speaker 1>so it's an Oreo flavored oreo.

0:39:11.480 --> 0:39:15.359
<v Speaker 2>I know a cursive oreo. No, I've gone across side

0:39:15.560 --> 0:39:20.600
<v Speaker 2>root for your float. No watermelon, terrible, marshmallow crisp.

0:39:21.960 --> 0:39:22.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't understand that.

0:39:23.120 --> 0:39:28.399
<v Speaker 2>No caramel, apple, no lime aide. God, there's definitely Yeah,

0:39:28.400 --> 0:39:30.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean pumpkin spice. You have to That was good?

0:39:30.320 --> 0:39:32.440
<v Speaker 1>That was good? Yeah, okay, it goes very good.

0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:38.080
<v Speaker 2>Cookie dough, Yeah, it's fine. Red velvet cotton candy.

0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Sure, s'mores cinnamon bone, which is not on here was

0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:43.200
<v Speaker 1>the best.

0:39:43.400 --> 0:39:48.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh have you had the churro shaped oreos? No, I

0:39:48.640 --> 0:39:50.480
<v Speaker 2>think they're just those. The flavors are the same, they're

0:39:50.520 --> 0:39:51.680
<v Speaker 2>just shaped like churros.

0:39:52.160 --> 0:39:54.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh I have seen those? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, No, I

0:39:54.280 --> 0:39:56.120
<v Speaker 1>haven't had those yet. Actually, I haven't had most of these.

0:39:56.160 --> 0:40:02.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm just judging from the name. If you missed out

0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:06.800
<v Speaker 1>on the chance to see these these limited edition Oreo

0:40:06.920 --> 0:40:09.960
<v Speaker 1>flavors on store shelves, you're in luck. There was an

0:40:10.040 --> 0:40:13.919
<v Speaker 1>exhibit at the Museum of Failure in Los Angeles which

0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:17.239
<v Speaker 1>has most of these flavors, although the exhibit might have

0:40:17.280 --> 0:40:20.160
<v Speaker 1>closed by now. It's also Coca Cola flavored Oreo, which

0:40:20.280 --> 0:40:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't remember seeing that a synergy thing. Yeah, somebody

0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:25.320
<v Speaker 1>got paid.

0:40:26.360 --> 0:40:27.919
<v Speaker 2>Drunk John Draper right.

0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:35.800
<v Speaker 1>And hit the table. And you know, I've often wondered

0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:38.719
<v Speaker 1>in those twilight hours when I can't sleep and I'm

0:40:38.960 --> 0:40:41.080
<v Speaker 1>pondering all the things that are going wrong in my life,

0:40:41.920 --> 0:40:43.359
<v Speaker 1>and to try to make it so that I can't

0:40:43.360 --> 0:40:45.840
<v Speaker 1>actually have a few moments of blissful slumber before I

0:40:45.880 --> 0:40:48.759
<v Speaker 1>have to wake up and face another day of compiling

0:40:48.840 --> 0:40:54.239
<v Speaker 1>these insanely researched episodes. I think about, why, why with

0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:56.759
<v Speaker 1>the good folks at Nibisco flood the market with these

0:40:57.560 --> 0:41:02.239
<v Speaker 1>truly grotesque flavors Oreos more than fifty at this point,

0:41:02.719 --> 0:41:06.000
<v Speaker 1>more often than not disgusting. Well, apparently there's a method

0:41:06.040 --> 0:41:11.120
<v Speaker 1>to their madness. GQ interviewed a Coronell University behavioral economist

0:41:11.440 --> 0:41:15.840
<v Speaker 1>named David just to explain this phenomenon. The key is

0:41:15.920 --> 0:41:19.080
<v Speaker 1>that Nabisco's not trying to introduce the flavors for long

0:41:19.200 --> 0:41:22.560
<v Speaker 1>term consumption. He says, you build in this idea of

0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:26.200
<v Speaker 1>really tacky flavors, and that sort of builds this relationship

0:41:26.280 --> 0:41:28.839
<v Speaker 1>to the consumer who likes to sort of check out

0:41:28.920 --> 0:41:32.840
<v Speaker 1>these kitchy Oreos, he explained, and as an added bonus,

0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:36.359
<v Speaker 1>many younger consumers basically give the company free pr by

0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:40.040
<v Speaker 1>posting these new flavor reviews on social media. So David

0:41:40.239 --> 0:41:43.680
<v Speaker 1>just describes this approach by Oreos as quote, building a

0:41:43.800 --> 0:41:45.640
<v Speaker 1>personality behind its brand.

0:41:46.040 --> 0:41:48.480
<v Speaker 2>I love them. Do you buy that? Sounds like corporate

0:41:48.560 --> 0:41:49.200
<v Speaker 2>portions to me?

0:41:49.640 --> 0:41:51.319
<v Speaker 1>I mean I buy it. I think it's a cheap

0:41:51.360 --> 0:41:54.080
<v Speaker 1>and easy ole, relatively cheap and easy way of market

0:41:54.120 --> 0:41:58.160
<v Speaker 1>testing new flavors that they can maybe enter into the mainstream.

0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:02.680
<v Speaker 1>And also, yeah, that's actually I thought I hell of

0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:05.280
<v Speaker 1>a lot more about Oreos when they introduced some bizarre

0:42:05.360 --> 0:42:07.960
<v Speaker 1>new flavor that more often than not I was curious

0:42:07.960 --> 0:42:09.520
<v Speaker 1>about trying than I would have It was just the

0:42:09.600 --> 0:42:11.279
<v Speaker 1>same old thing that had been around for one hundred

0:42:11.280 --> 0:42:11.880
<v Speaker 1>and ten years.

0:42:11.960 --> 0:42:18.520
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, maybe, yeah, true all right, KGI good for them. Uh. Then,

0:42:18.600 --> 0:42:23.439
<v Speaker 2>of course Oreos oreo O's cereal launched in teen ninety seven,

0:42:23.600 --> 0:42:26.680
<v Speaker 2>discontinued in two thousand and seven everywhere other than South Korea,

0:42:27.320 --> 0:42:31.320
<v Speaker 2>and relaunched ten years later. And speaking of twenty seventeen,

0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Virginia based the Veil Brewing Company released a version of

0:42:35.400 --> 0:42:38.880
<v Speaker 2>their chocolate milk stout called a horn Swoggler that was

0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:43.879
<v Speaker 2>infused with actual Oreo cookies. I haven't tried it, don't

0:42:43.920 --> 0:42:47.000
<v Speaker 2>know how I feel about it, don't care. Uh, I'm

0:42:47.040 --> 0:42:49.520
<v Speaker 2>not going to Virginia for chocolate stuff, even if it

0:42:49.560 --> 0:42:53.359
<v Speaker 2>does have I can't believe it's taken us as long

0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:57.040
<v Speaker 2>to get to double stuff. Yeah, but like many things

0:42:57.080 --> 0:43:02.600
<v Speaker 2>at the heart of America, it is a lot featuring

0:43:02.719 --> 0:43:06.080
<v Speaker 2>not actually double but closer to one point eight six

0:43:06.360 --> 0:43:11.480
<v Speaker 2>times as much stuff. Those date back to nineteen seventy five.

0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Apparently it was like a high school class that actually

0:43:14.520 --> 0:43:17.000
<v Speaker 1>crunched the numbers on that and figured out that it

0:43:17.080 --> 0:43:19.560
<v Speaker 1>wasn't actually double stuffed. It was like a big story.

0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:21.920
<v Speaker 2>A couple of years ago we mentioned the triple stuff,

0:43:22.400 --> 0:43:24.560
<v Speaker 2>but that was not the biggest Oreo nineteen eighty four

0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:29.239
<v Speaker 2>Oreo introduced the Big Stuff varietal, which is about ten

0:43:29.360 --> 0:43:33.319
<v Speaker 2>times the size of regular Oreo Wow. Sold individually. Each

0:43:33.400 --> 0:43:36.680
<v Speaker 2>Big Stuff contained two hundred and fifty calories, which that's

0:43:36.680 --> 0:43:40.880
<v Speaker 2>actually which I thought thirteen grams of fat had tracks.

0:43:41.200 --> 0:43:44.560
<v Speaker 2>I saw an anecdote earlier that it took someone like

0:43:44.680 --> 0:43:47.520
<v Speaker 2>twenty minutes to eat one at a sustainable pace.

0:43:47.960 --> 0:43:50.279
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, because it's like it's probably like saltines your

0:43:50.360 --> 0:43:52.800
<v Speaker 1>mouth from a cookie, it's gets so dry. It's probably

0:43:52.800 --> 0:43:53.080
<v Speaker 1>hard to.

0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:55.759
<v Speaker 2>Eat three inches in diameter. That can possibly be right?

0:43:56.520 --> 0:43:57.200
<v Speaker 1>How thick is it?

0:43:58.280 --> 0:43:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Yeah, I guess that's true.

0:43:59.800 --> 0:44:02.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So let's say six on top, six on the bottom,

0:44:02.640 --> 0:44:04.920
<v Speaker 1>or five on top. Okay, I can see that how

0:44:04.960 --> 0:44:08.800
<v Speaker 1>that would work. The ad for the Big Stuff is

0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:12.520
<v Speaker 1>on YouTube and it's pretty great, and naturally the jingle

0:44:12.680 --> 0:44:15.440
<v Speaker 1>is a riff on Gen Nights Mister Big Stuff, because

0:44:15.840 --> 0:44:17.920
<v Speaker 1>of course, and hell Oreo could afford it.

0:44:19.640 --> 0:44:19.839
<v Speaker 2>Well.

0:44:20.239 --> 0:44:22.320
<v Speaker 1>We mentioned earlier at the top of the episode that

0:44:22.600 --> 0:44:26.080
<v Speaker 1>the classic Oreo twist behavior has been part of the

0:44:26.120 --> 0:44:29.040
<v Speaker 1>brand's identity from very early on, back in the twenties.

0:44:29.600 --> 0:44:33.080
<v Speaker 1>But what does your preference for Oreo consumption patterns say

0:44:33.280 --> 0:44:37.840
<v Speaker 1>about you? Well, according to one widely disseminated study, and

0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:41.239
<v Speaker 1>we use that term loosely done by craft. In two

0:44:41.280 --> 0:44:44.880
<v Speaker 1>thousand and four, they studied the habits of two thousand

0:44:45.000 --> 0:44:50.120
<v Speaker 1>oreo eaters. Dunkers are supposed to be quote energetic, adventurous,

0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:56.840
<v Speaker 1>and social, while twisters are quote sensitive, emotional, artistic, and trendy.

0:44:58.480 --> 0:45:03.680
<v Speaker 1>And finally, biers are quote easygoing, self confident and optimistic.

0:45:04.960 --> 0:45:11.040
<v Speaker 1>That this is probably a bad time to ask which

0:45:11.040 --> 0:45:11.400
<v Speaker 1>one are you?

0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:12.440
<v Speaker 4>Uh?

0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:16.839
<v Speaker 2>Is there a pithy phrase for when you just reach

0:45:16.920 --> 0:45:19.800
<v Speaker 2>your hand into a bag of loose, crumbled ones and

0:45:19.920 --> 0:45:21.719
<v Speaker 2>just kind of shove a fist full in your mouth.

0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Your bag is balanced on your stomach and you're watching

0:45:26.800 --> 0:45:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Northern Exposure on a laptop instead of going on to

0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:35.040
<v Speaker 2>work because you can't raise your head that day? Is

0:45:35.040 --> 0:45:35.640
<v Speaker 2>there a word for that?

0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:39.880
<v Speaker 1>That's the depression technique of eating oreos. I mean, I

0:45:39.920 --> 0:45:43.800
<v Speaker 1>don't understand the when you twist it apart. Are you

0:45:43.880 --> 0:45:46.840
<v Speaker 1>supposed to lick the center because you can't lick the

0:45:46.920 --> 0:45:48.160
<v Speaker 1>cream because it's solid?

0:45:49.320 --> 0:45:51.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, we have mister sam Porcello to think

0:45:51.800 --> 0:45:56.399
<v Speaker 2>for that, right, But if you hold your tongue, yeah,

0:45:56.440 --> 0:45:59.080
<v Speaker 2>like an art show exactly, you just hold it up

0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:02.960
<v Speaker 2>to your tongue until the body temperature heats it up

0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:05.120
<v Speaker 2>in a slide it off that I have no idea

0:46:05.160 --> 0:46:07.960
<v Speaker 2>what I'm talking about. I think honestly, like in all

0:46:08.000 --> 0:46:10.719
<v Speaker 2>of my lockdown Bodega snack runs, I think they got

0:46:11.080 --> 0:46:14.160
<v Speaker 2>nutter butters like everything. I'm not at like a do

0:46:14.320 --> 0:46:17.560
<v Speaker 2>both of us not like cornes? Weird thing to come

0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:20.520
<v Speaker 2>up an hour eight into this podcast.

0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:23.080
<v Speaker 1>They're fine.

0:46:23.520 --> 0:46:23.560
<v Speaker 2>No.

0:46:24.280 --> 0:46:27.239
<v Speaker 1>To me, it's like the sprite of cookies. It's like

0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:29.399
<v Speaker 1>that's what you have at the party when there's nothing

0:46:29.440 --> 0:46:30.680
<v Speaker 1>else there, and.

0:46:30.760 --> 0:46:34.800
<v Speaker 2>You'll have it, but like, just feel something anything.

0:46:35.040 --> 0:46:37.840
<v Speaker 1>Perhaps unsurprisingly, given the love that people have for oreos,

0:46:38.040 --> 0:46:41.480
<v Speaker 1>science has gotten involved more than once. In the late nineties,

0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:46.160
<v Speaker 1>Len Fisher, physics professor at the University of Bristol, claimed

0:46:46.320 --> 0:46:50.440
<v Speaker 1>decades old mathematical formula describing capillary action, which is the

0:46:50.440 --> 0:46:54.120
<v Speaker 1>phenomenon that describes how liquids cling to dry surfaces, could

0:46:54.200 --> 0:46:57.520
<v Speaker 1>predict the perfect dunk time for a cookie, and using

0:46:57.560 --> 0:47:01.080
<v Speaker 1>a formula from American scientist E. W. You wash burn

0:47:01.400 --> 0:47:04.960
<v Speaker 1>and testing with ink blots first, he described the perfect

0:47:04.960 --> 0:47:09.200
<v Speaker 1>amount of time for dipping quote regular British biscuits at

0:47:09.360 --> 0:47:13.040
<v Speaker 1>three and a half to five seconds. Crucially, though, he

0:47:13.160 --> 0:47:17.920
<v Speaker 1>did not test oreos, and so in twenty sixteen, members

0:47:17.960 --> 0:47:21.160
<v Speaker 1>of the Utah State University's Splash Lab stepped up to

0:47:21.200 --> 0:47:24.719
<v Speaker 1>the plate and corrected this grievous error in a test

0:47:24.800 --> 0:47:28.880
<v Speaker 1>of Oreos chips, ahoy nut or butters, and gram crackers.

0:47:28.960 --> 0:47:32.360
<v Speaker 1>They dipped the cookies halfway in two percent milk for

0:47:32.560 --> 0:47:35.880
<v Speaker 1>half a second to seven seconds, and after dunking, the

0:47:35.960 --> 0:47:38.960
<v Speaker 1>team weighed the treats and measured how much milk had

0:47:39.000 --> 0:47:41.880
<v Speaker 1>been absorbed. The results, I know you're dying to know.

0:47:42.520 --> 0:47:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Oreos absorbed fifty percent of their potential liquid weight in

0:47:46.040 --> 0:47:50.000
<v Speaker 1>just one second. After two seconds they absorbed eighty percent,

0:47:50.760 --> 0:47:53.600
<v Speaker 1>and the number flat line briefly for a second, and

0:47:53.719 --> 0:47:56.880
<v Speaker 1>after the fourth second the cookie maxed out. It absorbed

0:47:57.040 --> 0:47:59.919
<v Speaker 1>all its possible milk. So if you were a dunk

0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:03.440
<v Speaker 1>your oreos for more than four seconds, you're wasting your

0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:07.440
<v Speaker 1>precious time on this planet. So do with that what

0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:10.960
<v Speaker 1>you will. But for those taking their dipping seriously, which

0:48:11.120 --> 0:48:13.440
<v Speaker 1>if you listen this far you probably do, there is

0:48:13.480 --> 0:48:18.320
<v Speaker 1>a tool for dipping called the dipper DPR, which began

0:48:18.440 --> 0:48:20.800
<v Speaker 1>with the kickstarter in twenty eleven, and it's been hailed

0:48:20.800 --> 0:48:24.200
<v Speaker 1>as the latest and greatest in cookie spoons. It exists

0:48:24.280 --> 0:48:26.760
<v Speaker 1>that your oreo will be dipped evenly and you won't

0:48:26.880 --> 0:48:29.960
<v Speaker 1>accidentally drop it in your milk, because, again, as you

0:48:30.080 --> 0:48:32.839
<v Speaker 1>just said earlier, if your oreo is suspended in milk

0:48:32.880 --> 0:48:37.400
<v Speaker 1>for more than five seconds, it's worthless. Carry on.

0:48:37.800 --> 0:48:40.080
<v Speaker 5>I'm just gonna rend battled that all of these institutions

0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:42.120
<v Speaker 5>are higher learning have put so much money and time

0:48:42.200 --> 0:48:49.280
<v Speaker 5>towards oreos. Instead of a desalemization or cancer cloud bursting

0:48:49.600 --> 0:48:51.600
<v Speaker 5>any of these things, you could actually save the world.

0:48:52.480 --> 0:48:56.200
<v Speaker 1>While we're on the extremely academic studies of oreos, there

0:48:56.280 --> 0:48:58.920
<v Speaker 1>was a study published by researchers at Connecticut College in

0:48:59.000 --> 0:49:03.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty thirteen which states that oreos activate the same pleasure

0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:06.759
<v Speaker 1>center in the brains of lab rats that was activated

0:49:06.840 --> 0:49:10.600
<v Speaker 1>by cocaine and morphine. The high fat and high sugar

0:49:10.719 --> 0:49:14.320
<v Speaker 1>triggers the addiction hotspot in the brain, and one student

0:49:14.480 --> 0:49:17.960
<v Speaker 1>also observed that the rats would quote break the oreos

0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:21.319
<v Speaker 1>open and eat the middle first, one of the many

0:49:21.400 --> 0:49:26.560
<v Speaker 1>ways that I am like a rat. In a less

0:49:26.760 --> 0:49:29.879
<v Speaker 1>behavioral study that has to do with oreos, I would

0:49:29.960 --> 0:49:32.319
<v Speaker 1>like to discuss a little thing called the Oreo Run,

0:49:33.160 --> 0:49:36.960
<v Speaker 1>which we've been teasing this the whole episode. This was

0:49:37.000 --> 0:49:39.480
<v Speaker 1>a hazing ritual that took place at an Illinois high

0:49:39.480 --> 0:49:43.360
<v Speaker 1>school that made national headlines in October twenty eighteen, and,

0:49:43.680 --> 0:49:47.360
<v Speaker 1>according to a piece in the registrar Star, ten football

0:49:47.400 --> 0:49:50.000
<v Speaker 1>players were suspended for taking part in this event, the

0:49:50.120 --> 0:49:54.200
<v Speaker 1>Oreo Run, which entailed running across the school's football field

0:49:54.400 --> 0:50:01.319
<v Speaker 1>naked with an oreo wedged an oreo, shall we say,

0:50:01.600 --> 0:50:04.919
<v Speaker 1>up there there were cram and oreos up there, left

0:50:04.960 --> 0:50:08.840
<v Speaker 1>and right, left, right, and center, mostly center. The offending

0:50:08.920 --> 0:50:13.040
<v Speaker 1>parties were required to quote sit out three football games,

0:50:13.760 --> 0:50:17.680
<v Speaker 1>although given the crime, I'm guessing that they probably stood. No,

0:50:18.000 --> 0:50:18.800
<v Speaker 1>not even a titter.

0:50:18.960 --> 0:50:21.680
<v Speaker 2>No. I just I don't know, man, Just this stuff

0:50:21.760 --> 0:50:26.759
<v Speaker 2>is soon really high school team. So I just that's

0:50:26.840 --> 0:50:29.400
<v Speaker 2>behaving at all, man, Like, Oh yeah, I mean I

0:50:29.480 --> 0:50:31.239
<v Speaker 2>used to put cigarette buds out of my arms for

0:50:31.360 --> 0:50:33.279
<v Speaker 2>like a party trick. But I didn't put stuff up

0:50:33.320 --> 0:50:35.759
<v Speaker 2>my ass, especially not food stuffs. You know, I was

0:50:35.800 --> 0:50:37.920
<v Speaker 2>told they were starving children across the world. Yeah, your

0:50:37.960 --> 0:50:41.000
<v Speaker 2>food is for your mouth. Your family sweated for that food.

0:50:41.080 --> 0:50:42.120
<v Speaker 2>You don't put it in your ass.

0:50:47.560 --> 0:50:52.200
<v Speaker 1>It's a PSA, there's no trace of humor your voice

0:50:52.280 --> 0:50:59.000
<v Speaker 1>whatsoever right now? Genuine offense. I mean, I mean, God

0:50:59.080 --> 0:51:02.280
<v Speaker 1>bless you, all power to you. I'm yes, I agree

0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:04.120
<v Speaker 1>with you. I agree with everything he was saying. I

0:51:06.960 --> 0:51:08.960
<v Speaker 1>this is the hill that we're gonna tie on.

0:51:12.640 --> 0:51:15.399
<v Speaker 2>Just bumps me out. I don't know. Weird. Find find

0:51:15.440 --> 0:51:18.520
<v Speaker 2>better to do with your life, people, Getness. Book of

0:51:18.520 --> 0:51:22.960
<v Speaker 2>World Records unsurprisingly has a lot of entries related to oreos.

0:51:23.320 --> 0:51:27.040
<v Speaker 2>On January thirtieth, twenty twenty, it closest the Western world

0:51:27.120 --> 0:51:31.399
<v Speaker 2>ever got to true happiness. Mondolaz employees from fifty five

0:51:31.480 --> 0:51:34.840
<v Speaker 2>locations representing thirty two countries around the globe tuned in

0:51:35.120 --> 0:51:41.920
<v Speaker 2>and set a new record for most dunked cookies simultaneously,

0:51:42.480 --> 0:51:46.560
<v Speaker 2>five sixty six employees dunking at the same time, nearly

0:51:46.600 --> 0:51:49.680
<v Speaker 2>two years earlier, in April twenty eighteen. In April twenty eighteen,

0:51:49.920 --> 0:51:53.279
<v Speaker 2>Mandolaz celebrated the opening of a plant in Bahrain with

0:51:53.440 --> 0:51:57.000
<v Speaker 2>the largest oreo ever. It was nearly one hundred and

0:51:57.080 --> 0:52:01.600
<v Speaker 2>sixty two pounds, and it was subsequently distributed among frant

0:52:01.680 --> 0:52:05.640
<v Speaker 2>employees and the local village. Wow, so sorry, we don't

0:52:06.000 --> 0:52:08.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know I'm about to make it. I don't

0:52:08.040 --> 0:52:10.239
<v Speaker 2>know if they how well they paid them, they get

0:52:10.280 --> 0:52:11.240
<v Speaker 2>some Oreos.

0:52:11.000 --> 0:52:15.960
<v Speaker 1>And lastly, per Guinness, oreos are officially the world's favorite cookie,

0:52:16.400 --> 0:52:19.040
<v Speaker 1>available in more than one hundred countries around the globe.

0:52:19.280 --> 0:52:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Approximately thirty four billion Oreo cookies are sold each year.

0:52:23.719 --> 0:52:28.080
<v Speaker 1>That's ninety two million cookies per day, with ten billion

0:52:28.160 --> 0:52:31.520
<v Speaker 1>of those cookies sold in the US annually, and an

0:52:31.719 --> 0:52:37.080
<v Speaker 1>estimated five hundred billion Oreo cookies have been sold since

0:52:37.120 --> 0:52:41.000
<v Speaker 1>they debuted in nineteen twelve. That is enough to wrap

0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:44.719
<v Speaker 1>around the Earth three hundred and eighty one times, or

0:52:44.800 --> 0:52:48.120
<v Speaker 1>reach the moon and back five times.

0:52:49.120 --> 0:52:52.680
<v Speaker 2>Wow, this is where you're like, Yeah, send them to

0:52:52.760 --> 0:52:56.839
<v Speaker 2>the moon, but not backs join run up.

0:52:57.560 --> 0:53:00.439
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say, do something useful, use the ladder

0:53:00.440 --> 0:53:01.799
<v Speaker 1>of the moon if I doesn't need them.

0:53:03.320 --> 0:53:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, folks, I did not foresee being driven to the

0:53:05.960 --> 0:53:09.759
<v Speaker 2>brink of madness and back by what you've convinced me

0:53:09.920 --> 0:53:14.719
<v Speaker 2>is a garbage cookie for idiots who knew it was

0:53:14.760 --> 0:53:18.520
<v Speaker 2>oreos that broke both of us. But looking back, the

0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:22.960
<v Speaker 2>scribes will write of this evening, women will sing songs

0:53:22.960 --> 0:53:28.080
<v Speaker 2>and lament, and our sons will mash their teeth and

0:53:28.239 --> 0:53:30.719
<v Speaker 2>look skyward at all the oreos and circle in the

0:53:30.760 --> 0:53:36.600
<v Speaker 2>globe and say, there's Papa. Thanks for listening. I'm Alex

0:53:36.680 --> 0:53:37.799
<v Speaker 2>Cycle and.

0:53:37.840 --> 0:53:40.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm Jordan Runtag. And that's the way the cookie crumbled

0:53:40.680 --> 0:53:52.399
<v Speaker 1>us both. Oh too much information was the production of iHeartRadio.

0:53:52.680 --> 0:53:55.880
<v Speaker 1>The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtogg.

0:53:56.040 --> 0:53:57.960
<v Speaker 1>The supervising producer is Mike Johns.

0:53:58.160 --> 0:54:01.240
<v Speaker 2>The show was researched and written and by Jordan Rundgg

0:54:01.320 --> 0:54:02.400
<v Speaker 2>and Alex Heigel.

0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:05.520
<v Speaker 1>With original music by Seth Applebomb and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

0:54:06.040 --> 0:54:08.080
<v Speaker 1>If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

0:54:08.120 --> 0:54:11.080
<v Speaker 1>us a review. For more podcasts and iHeartRadio, visit the

0:54:11.120 --> 0:54:14.400
<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

0:54:14.440 --> 0:54:15.120
<v Speaker 1>favorite shows.