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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 2: that brings you the secret histories and little known fascinating

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Speaker 2: facts about your favorite movies, TV shows, music and more.

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Speaker 2: We are your two doyens of drivel. I'm Alex Heigel and.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan Runtag.

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Speaker 2: And today, Jordan, we are venturing into a bold new

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Speaker 2: direction for TMI foodstuffs, specifically Oreos, which are celebrating their

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Speaker 2: one hundred and tenth anniversary this year. I have personally

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Speaker 2: always thought of Oreos as the season NBA metaphor, the

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Speaker 2: sixth man of the cookie world, the anchor. You know.

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Speaker 2: They're not chalky and disgusting like a Chips de Hoy.

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Speaker 2: They're wantonly sexual like a Nutter butter or snooty like

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Speaker 2: those high falutin Pepperidge Farm folks. They're the John Stockton

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Speaker 2: Utah jazz reference of the cookie aisle, all time assist leader,

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Speaker 2: just happy to be out there with the rest of

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Speaker 2: the guys, having a good time, playing their best and

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Speaker 2: helping the team. But Jordan, you you hit me with

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Speaker 2: a scorching hot take right before we started recording. Would

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Speaker 2: you like to repeat that for the fine folks out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm not a huge Areos fan, and

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Speaker 1: I do have strong thoughts on sweets. I don't really drink,

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Speaker 1: and you tend to find that people who don't drink

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Speaker 1: have an especially intense sweet tooth. So I can pratle

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Speaker 1: on about cookies like some people do about brandy or wine,

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Speaker 1: and I have to say, I don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: a case of familiarity breeds contempt, but I'm just not

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Speaker 1: a huge Oreos fan, and the flavors okay, but just

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Speaker 1: the experience of eating them to me is garbage. I mean,

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Speaker 1: let's pay say, the cookie itself or the wafer, if

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Speaker 1: you're being professional, is trash. It's stale, it's crummy, it's

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Speaker 1: bitter tasting, terrible mouthfeel, if we're getting really professional here.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a dipper, so maybe that's part of the problem.

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Speaker 1: Maybe if I dipped, it would be less like you know,

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Speaker 1: eating gravel. Feel like, no one actually likes the cookie

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Speaker 1: portion of Oreo. It's all about the cream feeling. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's the cream, and the cream is fine.

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Speaker 1: It's sweet, it's vaguely cream tasting, it's sugary, it's sweet.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's fine for me. Oreo is great

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Speaker 1: as a flavor of ice cream or milkshakes or the

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Speaker 1: cookies and cream candy bar. That's where the flavor profile

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Speaker 1: of oreo is great. But the actual experience of eating them, eh,

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Speaker 1: not for me. I could take them or leave them.

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Speaker 1: I'll take malamars or their fancy cousin pin wheels any day.

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Speaker 1: But how about you.

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Speaker 2: You know, as someone who used to smoke a lot

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Speaker 2: of weed, I've had a lot of experience with oreos,

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Speaker 2: all kinds of oreos, the peanut butter. Also, you know,

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Speaker 2: as longtime listeners of the show will know, I grew

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Speaker 2: up in central Pennsylvania, so I have eaten my fair

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Speaker 2: share of chocolate covered and or deep fried oreos at

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Speaker 2: the state fairs.

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Speaker 1: That I've never had. I've never actually had that, despite.

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Speaker 2: My disgusting Just why it's awful? Just put yourself into

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Speaker 2: like a painful state of food coma and or diabetic shock. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're bad. I don't know why people do that to themselves. Well,

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Speaker 2: folks from the Vicious family feud at the heart of

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Speaker 2: the cookies invention to the insane process of making that

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Speaker 2: famous filling kosher certified in the late nineties to the

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Speaker 2: definitive scientific proof regarding the distribution of said filling to

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Speaker 2: the high school seniors who got in trouble for shoving

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Speaker 2: oreos up there. But that was Jordan's edition. Here's everything

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Speaker 2: you didn't know about oreos. The tangled web of oreos

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Speaker 2: actually begins in a bit of family slash corporate battles.

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Speaker 2: I did not know this. Around the turn of the

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Speaker 2: nineteenth century, biscuits were big business in America. Did you

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Speaker 2: know this?

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Speaker 1: I did not know this.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: I know that they were basically trying to make biscuits

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Speaker 1: a thing over here in the way that they were

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Speaker 1: in the UK for tea time. Yes, I think that

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Speaker 1: was kind of the whole idea, was that they were

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Speaker 1: trying to create a market need where there was not

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Speaker 1: over here.

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Speaker 2: Yes. And so in the late nineteenth century, two brothers,

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Speaker 2: Jacob and Joseph Leos, bought a controlling interest in the

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Speaker 2: Coral Cracker and Confectionery Company in Kansas City, Missouri. So

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Speaker 2: I can't believe you read that tech neither can I.

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Speaker 2: Particulars of this are not interesting. The point is that

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Speaker 2: Jacob decides that a bunch of Midwest bakeries can form

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Speaker 2: together and become a regional powerhouse to compete with those

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Speaker 2: snooty coastal elites Big Biscuit in New York. And So

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Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety he hires a lawyer named Adolphus Green

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Speaker 2: to oversee a merger that creates the American Biscuit and

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Speaker 2: Manufacturing Company, which becomes the second largest corporate bakery in America.

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Speaker 2: Jacob names himself president, appoints his brother Joseph to the

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Speaker 2: board of directors, and Adolphus to general counsel. Meanwhile, in

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Speaker 2: eighteen eighty nine, a guy named William H. Moore combines

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Speaker 2: a number of other bakeries to start the New York

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Speaker 2: Biscuit Company. More is more lest the archetype for what

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Speaker 2: would become the kind of nineteen eighties. Patrick Bateman, corporate

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Speaker 2: writer ac mergers and acquisition guys. His whole thing was

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Speaker 2: buying and consolidating companies. He lost one point one million

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Speaker 2: at one point in an attempt to buy the Carnegie

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Speaker 2: Steel Company, but subsequently tried again with the assistants of

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Speaker 2: JP Morgan and John D. Rockefeller and succeeded creating US Steel,

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Speaker 2: which is one of the archetypal industrial mega corporations of

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Speaker 2: the twentieth century. So this is the guy who's behind

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Speaker 2: New York Biscuit.

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Speaker 1: So moral the stories, you don't want to mess with

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Speaker 1: New York Biscuit.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like no, no, no no. So American Biscuit,

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Speaker 2: New York Biscuit, and a third company called the United

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Speaker 2: States Bacon Company. These guys didn't have just terrible names,

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Speaker 2: battled each other for years in what broadsheet journalists actually

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Speaker 2: dubbed the Biscuit Wars at the time, and it got

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Speaker 2: so bad that Jacob had to take a step back

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Speaker 2: from American Biscuit for health reasons, and Joseph, now in control,

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Speaker 2: decides to make peace and merge with the other two

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Speaker 2: companies in eighteen ninety eight, a move Jacob vehemently protested

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Speaker 2: against from his sick bed.

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Speaker 1: Isn't this like the plot of The Godfather very much?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, Sonny trying to make peace with the other families.

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Speaker 2: While how they massacred my boy. Yeah uh, he said

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Speaker 2: that about Chipshy later. So the merger nevertheless goes through

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Speaker 2: and the three companies become the National Biscuit Company. Nah bisco,

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Speaker 2: I get it. There's no way to say that that

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Speaker 2: doesn't sound like a cult indoctrination. Forever forever, bah ram

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Speaker 2: you nah Bisco. Anyway, Joseph installs himself uh lawyer Adolphus

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Speaker 2: dream of.

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Speaker 3: Us nah Bisco and some other ex buddies of Jacob's,

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Speaker 3: and the company builds an enormous factory in what is

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Speaker 3: now the Chelsea Market and is well on its way

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Speaker 3: to national dominance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this building in Manhattan is absolutely massive. It's a

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Speaker 1: full city block, and that stretch of Ninth Avenue is

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Speaker 1: named Orio Way in its honor. And interesting point of fact,

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Speaker 1: the birthplace of the Oreo is now owned by Google.

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Speaker 1: They were just the building in twenty eighteen for two

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Speaker 1: point four billion.

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Speaker 2: That's what That's a spicy cookie.

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Speaker 1: That's a little block of meatpacking district Manhattan costs, I suppose.

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Speaker 3: Boy.

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Speaker 2: So, Nabisco launches the wildly popular Barnums animal crackers in

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Speaker 2: nineteen three, although that is like most things this company does,

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Speaker 2: a ripoff of an existing British cookie. Fig Newton's also

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Speaker 2: come up around this time, and then in nineteen twelve

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Speaker 2: both Laura Dunes and Oreos so quite a batting average

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Speaker 2: out of the gate.

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Speaker 1: But all those cookies are trash. I mean, especially Fignutons

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Speaker 1: are popular to eat at the beach because it already

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Speaker 1: tastes like you're eating sand, So now I can tell

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Speaker 1: when there's already sand in it. Yeah, I mean, Laura Dunes,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe those are still being made. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's anybody under the age of seventy

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Speaker 1: who eats those. I hate all these cookies. Oreos gets

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Speaker 1: a pass just out of nostalgia alone. But yeah, interesting

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Speaker 1: fact about the sort of democratic way that the BISCO

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Speaker 1: goes about developing products. There was an article that appeared

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Speaker 1: in a nineteen thirty one issue of The New Yorker

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Speaker 1: written by E. B. White, the man who wrote Charlotte's Web,

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Speaker 1: and he describes his visit to the BISCO headquarters in

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Speaker 1: New York and the very kind of casual way that

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Speaker 1: employees could suggest new cookie ideas. Presumably there was like

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Speaker 1: a suggestion box, and then the bakers would make them

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Speaker 1: and then test these products out by basically just leaving

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Speaker 1: them out in the breakroom and watching to see how

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Speaker 1: many were eaten. And EB White writes in this piece,

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Speaker 1: a baker makes up a trial batch off the new

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Speaker 1: model and sends them upstairs, where they're placed in an

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Speaker 1: open rack by the water cooler. Employees may help themselves.

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Speaker 1: Everything is informal. There are no charts or tables. After

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Speaker 1: a few days of elapse, the heads of the department

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Speaker 1: simply meet and talk the thing over. As soon as

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Speaker 1: the cookie has passed its test, it gets a name.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk more about the Orio name later. That's how

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Speaker 1: Pablo Escobar ran his business too.

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Speaker 2: But Jacob in the meantime heals up and from his deathbed,

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Speaker 2: rises with a vengeance and launches another new biscuit company

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Speaker 2: with another guy and calls it the Loose Wiles Biscuit Company.

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Speaker 2: They really got to work on these names. But with

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Speaker 2: the burning hatred and drive born of this Cane and

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Speaker 2: Able esque story, he brings the Loose Wiles Biscuit Company

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Speaker 2: up into the number two biscuit slot in the country

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Speaker 2: behind Nobisco, largely on the strength of one cookie, a

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Speaker 2: shortbread and cream sandwich with an ornate stamp design called Hydrus.

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Speaker 2: So we have to backtrack here because the quiet part

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Speaker 2: loud about Oreos is that they are a total ripoff

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Speaker 2: of Hydrugs. They came out in nineteen oh eight. NBISCO

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Speaker 2: files a trademark on Oreo in nineteen twelve, and it

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Speaker 2: is granted in nineteen thirteen. The first Oreo was sold

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Speaker 2: on March sixth, nineteen twelve, to a grosser in Hoboken,

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Speaker 2: New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: They were sold by weight, originally at a cost of

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Speaker 1: two dollars and thirty five cents for nine and a

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Speaker 1: quarter pounds. The oreos cost a dollar eady five and

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Speaker 1: the tin they came in costs another fifty cents. The

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Speaker 1: original oreos were ever so slightly larger than the ones

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Speaker 1: we enjoyed today, and most importantly to me, they went

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Speaker 1: on sale just a month before the Titanic set sale

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Speaker 1: on her maiden voyage meeting. There's quite possibly remains of

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Speaker 1: early Oreo packaging on the ocean floor, although it departed

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Speaker 1: from the UK, so it doubtful got over there, but

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Speaker 1: people on board the Titanic may have been aware of oreos,

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Speaker 1: and that's good enough for me.

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Speaker 2: They were eating hydrugs. You know.

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Speaker 1: I just want to recap for a second, just because

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Speaker 1: this story, mostly due to the really terrible corporate names,

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Speaker 1: can be a little hard to follow, but it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: So two brothers start a cookie company, a cookie conglomerate.

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Speaker 1: The older brother works so hard that he then has

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Speaker 1: to take a step back. He's he's worked himself to

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Speaker 1: the bone. His younger brother makes peace with all the

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Speaker 1: competing other cookie companies and they merge against the older

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Speaker 1: brother's wishes. The older brother gets well, and he's so

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Speaker 1: angry that his younger brother has sold his own company

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Speaker 1: out from underneath him that he makes a competing company

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Speaker 1: to take them on. And this competing company has made

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Speaker 1: basically what's the prototype of Oreo, known as hydrox. I

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Speaker 1: just think that's amazing. Canaan Abele doesn't even begin to

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Speaker 1: cover it.

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Speaker 2: Here's what's funny about this. Hydrugs were far more successful

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Speaker 2: than oreos at the time. The real power behind the

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Speaker 2: throne at this point is the Jewish community. In nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenty four, Loose Wiles, the company behind hydrox, partnered with

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Speaker 2: the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America to create

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Speaker 2: the country's first kosher certification program, which, because hydroxes don't

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Speaker 2: use lard in their cream whereas oreos did, made hydroxes

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Speaker 2: enormously popular among the Jewish community, and this contributed to

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Speaker 2: their early market dominance. Nibisco attempted to hitch the Oreo

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Speaker 2: name to a bunch of their other more successful products

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Speaker 2: in displays and advertisements. There's a wonderful anecdote of this

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Speaker 2: copy from Serious Eats. One in nineteen fourteen, one stores

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Speaker 2: found itself with a surfeit of Oreos to the tune

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Speaker 2: of seven hundred tins, so they slashed the price and

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Speaker 2: literally berated their customers into trying to buy them. Yesterday,

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Speaker 2: we advertised those splendid oreos and they were a great bargain.

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Speaker 2: While we sold a few, they didn't move anything like

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Speaker 2: we expected. It's simply a case of you not knowing

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Speaker 2: what a fine biscuit delicacy they are. The customer, they're

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Speaker 2: literally the principal skinner meme. Is this cookie bad? No,

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Speaker 2: it's the customer who is wrong. I love that, But

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Speaker 2: you know they hydrouck Span. These guys, they bungled an

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Speaker 2: early lead man. It's rough, yeah, I mean for starters.

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Speaker 2: There's that truly horrendous name, Hydrox. It sounds terrible on

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Speaker 2: the page, It looks terrible. It looks like a Greek

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Speaker 2: monster with like six heads.

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Speaker 1: It's awful. They were looking for a product name that

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Speaker 1: would evoke purity and goodness and good lord. They failed,

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Speaker 1: but they.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they succeeded too much and just evoked antiseptic sterility.

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Speaker 1: Right because I guess the name hydros came from the

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Speaker 1: atomic elements of water, hydrogen and oxygen high DROs. And

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Speaker 1: this was surprisingly given how ugly it sounds and how

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Speaker 1: it does not roll off the tongue in any way,

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Speaker 1: it was actually a really common name at the time.

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Speaker 1: There was the hydrox arated table water. There was hydrox

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Speaker 1: ice cream, Oh God, and hydrox ginger ale, and as

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, has a very antiseptic medical connotation and not

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Speaker 1: something that you want connected with confections. So perhaps because

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Speaker 1: of the whole Warring Brothers thing for fifty years, loose

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Speaker 1: Wiles really leaned on the whole copycat aspect of oreos.

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Speaker 1: They were really promoting hydrogs as the original beware of imitators.

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Speaker 1: There was one ad that featured a bear cub literally

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Speaker 1: crying over stolen crease, and their ad copy use words

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Speaker 1: like first and the finest, and the original and the

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Speaker 1: only and the classic and Warren consumers don't be fooled

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Speaker 1: by lookalikes.

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Speaker 2: So much finger wagging, I love it or did, however,

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Speaker 2: I throat cookie World. Yeah, exactly, Jacob. The same year

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Speaker 2: Jacob dies, the older brother who quit his body not

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Speaker 2: even cold in the grave, Oreo sends out a series

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Speaker 2: of ads that would change the world. With no exaggeration.

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Speaker 2: I say this. They promote the classic Oreo twist method

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Speaker 2: of eating. It's on street cars. I believe it is

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Speaker 2: the big one saying everybody's doing the Oreo twist. Maybe

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Speaker 2: they didn't say that. I don't know, but that's where

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Speaker 2: the twist dates back to his nineteen twenty three coincidentally,

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Speaker 2: the same year the brother dies. I just this whole

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Speaker 2: thing is so Shakespearean.

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Speaker 1: They did the Oreo twist on his grave.

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Speaker 2: Hey. By twenty fourteen, the Hydros name had fallen so

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Speaker 2: far that Keebler Kellogg's let the trademark lapse and it

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Speaker 2: was snapped up by Leaf Brands, who four years later

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Speaker 2: filed a complaint with the FTC against Oreos, alleging that

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Speaker 2: they hid Hydrox companies from customers on store shelves.

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Speaker 1: Oh, they hid Hydrox cookies from customers.

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Speaker 2: That was the basis of the suit. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if it was actually settled, but man talk about with

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Speaker 2: my last breath. I stab at THEE from Hell's Dark Heart,

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Speaker 2: I stab at thee. They went. They just Hydrox versus Oreo.

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Speaker 2: Few to the century.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, I mean this was the Coke Pepsi of

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Speaker 1: the early twentieth century. We're going to take a quick break,

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Speaker 1: but we'll be right back with more, too much of

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Speaker 1: in just a moment.

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Speaker 2: Wow. With hydrux dead and buried, Oreos were free to blossom.

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Speaker 2: So shortan tell us about that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the Oreo went my many variations of their famous

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Speaker 1: name over the years. When they were first introduced in

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Speaker 1: nineteen twelve, they were simply known as the Oreo biscuit,

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Speaker 1: and then by nineteen twenty one the cookie embraced its

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Speaker 1: shape and it was renamed the Oreo Sandwich, and in

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty seven the name was changed again to the

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Speaker 1: distinctively high brow Oreo cream Sandwich. And I was saying

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Speaker 1: earlier at the top of the episode this was a

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Speaker 1: way to play off the British biscuits that were served

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Speaker 1: at tea time, and upon their initial launch, Oreos were

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Speaker 1: marketed as fairly high end. There's this amazing bit of

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Speaker 1: ad copy from I think around nineteen twelve, when they

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Speaker 1: were first unveiled and it describes the Oreo as quote

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Speaker 1: two beautifully embossed chalk flavored wafers with a rich cream filling,

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Speaker 1: which is over selling Oreos slightly. And the final official

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Speaker 1: name changed to Oreos came in nineteen seventy four when

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Speaker 1: the cookie became known as the Oreo Chocolate Sandwich Cookie,

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Speaker 1: or Oreo for short, and that's its official name to

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Speaker 1: this very day. Anyway, while we're on the topic of names,

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Speaker 1: it's still anybody's guess where the term Oreo came from,

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Speaker 1: but there are many theories. It could be derived from

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Speaker 1: the French word for gold, which was an early decorative

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Speaker 1: element for the Oreo packaging. But here's a grab bag

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Speaker 1: of other explanations that are out there. There's one theory

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Speaker 1: that says that the name stemmed from the hill shaped

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Speaker 1: test version that never made it to store shelves. I

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Speaker 1: guess the cream was piled up like a little mountain

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Speaker 1: and that inspired this cookie prototype to be named Oreo,

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Speaker 1: which is the Greek word from mountain. So that's one theory.

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Speaker 1: There's another theory that says that the word Oreo is

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Speaker 1: a combination of the ra from cream and sandwiching. It

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Speaker 1: just like the cookie between the two o's in chocolate.

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Speaker 1: Oh from chocolate, ree from cream, oh from chocolate. It's

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Speaker 1: a verbal visual pun. It's not I I you don't know,

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Speaker 1: I might.

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Speaker 2: I just want to say I want you to do

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Speaker 2: you're doing like the drunk don draper like hand gesturing is.

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Speaker 2: It's just like the two o's and chocolate. It makes

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Speaker 2: makes story. Roger Sterling throws up in the lobby.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's probably how this was name.

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Speaker 2: Right, They're all on cocaine. Just zut it up, like,

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Speaker 2: what should we call it?

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Speaker 1: Areo h very number three? It stands for a rexigenic,

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Speaker 1: which is a medical term for substances that stimulate the appetite.

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Speaker 1: I would tend to want to dismiss this out of hand,

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Speaker 1: but considering hydrox.

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Speaker 3: Was his competitive name, uh maybe, Well, way do you

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Speaker 3: get to the plant conspiracy theory, which is the next one?

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, this is a really good one. This is

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Speaker 1: your personal favorite and probably mine too. The decorations on

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Speaker 1: the top of hydrox the hydrox cookie at that point

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Speaker 1: included a mountain laurel. And guess what genus of plant

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Speaker 1: they belonged to? The mountain laurel. That's right, Oreo, Daphni, Oreo,

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Speaker 1: daphne uh. And this was bolstered by the fact that

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Speaker 1: someone in Nibisco clearly had a thing for plants. Of

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Speaker 1: the cookies that Nibisco offered in nineteen thirteen, there's the Avena,

347
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 1: the lotus, the helicon, the zephyrett, the zatona, the aola,

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Speaker 1: the ramona, and Oreo, and those are all Latin or

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Speaker 1: Botany names for different kinds of plants.

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Speaker 2: I just love the idea that there's like one drunk

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Speaker 2: guy in the Nobisco copywriting thing. He's like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: name for plants no one will know. While we're on

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Speaker 2: the topic of that embossing that beautiful lorel wreath, it

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Speaker 2: kind of looks like a manhole cover at this point.

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Speaker 2: When they launched, Oreos used a much more organic plant

356
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 2: derived wreath for the emboss adding two pairs of turtle

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00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 2: doves in a nineteen twenty four redesign. The contemporary Oreo

358
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 2: stamp was introduced in nineteen fifty two and it has

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Speaker 2: remained unchanged ever since.

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Speaker 1: Every Oriole cookie contains ninety ridges, twelve flowers, twelve dashes,

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Speaker 1: and twelve dots. I feel like that's going to be

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Speaker 1: a great trivia question at some bar trivia somewhere.

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Speaker 2: So remember that it's probably some kind of satanic numbering thing.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to that.

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Speaker 2: Many people on the internet credit a man named William

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00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,399
Speaker 2: Turnier who started as a mailboy at Nabisco with the

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Speaker 2: four leaf clover and serrated edge design. But Nabisco is

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00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 2: cagy about it. They will only confirm that a man

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00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,880
Speaker 2: by that name worked for the company during that time

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Speaker 2: as a design engineer. In a very granular bit of

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Speaker 2: Internet dorkery, in the comments section of a twenty eleven

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Speaker 2: New York Times magazine article about the Oreo embossing, a

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Speaker 2: guy aiming to be William Turnier's son, Bill said that

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Speaker 2: the original blueprints for the cookie are in his possession

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Speaker 2: in North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Did you go into the comment section of this twenty

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00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: eleven New York Times magazine article about the oreo and bossing,

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00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,920
Speaker 1: I just protu scanning all the comment good.

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Speaker 2: Magician never reveals his secrets, Okay.

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00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 1: But William Turnier's son, the aforementioned Bill, was interviewed by

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00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: Mental Floss, and he said that the design on oreos

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00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,439
Speaker 1: quote goes back to monks who used it on the

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00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 1: bottom of manuscripts they copied in medieval times. It was

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Speaker 1: a sign of craft saying they did the best they could.

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00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: And there are some out there Internet sleuths, most likely

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00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 1: who have noted the similarities between the Oreo design and

387
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 1: the graphics used by the Freemasons and the Knights Templar,

388
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 1: thus linking the beloved cookie with the Crusades, which I

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Speaker 1: did not expect when we started this episode.

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Speaker 2: Bill also claimed that his dad modified the animal Cracker's box.

391
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 2: His contribution to that was adding the grass along the bottom,

392
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 2: designed the logo for Nutter Butters and Milk Bones, and

393
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 2: may have contributed to the design for the Rich Cracker.

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00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 2: William Senior left the East Coast and settled in Salt

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Speaker 2: Lake City, where his grave marker features an Oreo. Bizarrely enough,

396
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 2: given their seeming silence on crediting him, Bill claims that

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Speaker 2: Nabisco contacted his dad at one point to help confirm

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00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 2: aspects of the Oreo's design in order to build a

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00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 2: lawsuit against a company making a copycat cookie in Trinidad

400
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 2: and Tobago. Turn about his fair play Nabisco, But the

401
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: only thing in the official Craft Archives four turnire is

402
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 2: the receipt of a Suggestion Award in nineteen seventy two

403
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 2: for an idea that increased the production of nilla wafers

404
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 2: on company machinery by thirteen percent. So the company reaches

405
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 2: out to him. They're like, hey, do you have the

406
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: original blueprint for Oreos someone is trying to copy as

407
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 2: a Trinidad and Tobaggo. He's like, sure, I'll help you up,

408
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 2: and they still like disavow his credit for that. But yeah,

409
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 2: So between Oreos, milk bones, nut butters, animal crackers, ritz crackers,

410
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 2: and increasing the productivity of nilla wafers in nineteen seventy

411
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 2: two by whopping thirteen percent, William Turnier maybe the secret

412
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 2: MVP of the Oreos story. I just wanted to do.

413
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: I want to do my transition. Here is ding doom

414
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 2: ding ding ding ding dom ding ding all right on

415
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 2: my way? Dum. I would say that was terrible cut

416
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 2: that that might went over much better in my head.

417
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: The name of the heading is Ori on my Way,

418
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 2: like the song that's I'm rust send me on my Way.

419
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 2: That's that's not Rusted Root, is it? Yeah?

420
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 1: I saw Rusted Root as a kid. No way, Yeah,

421
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: how'd that go for you's I'm sitting here talking to you.

422
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 2: Great, all right, that digression well and truly dead. Now

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00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 2: we arrive at the real heart of the matter.

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00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 1: Yes, the Oreo filling really the only good part of Oreos,

425
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: if we're all being honest with ourselves.

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Speaker 2: This is the most heated you have been about anything

427
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 2: in the months we've been doing this podcast.

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00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's there's no reason why Oreos

429
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: should be as big as they are. There's there's some

430
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: part in effectively every way, just get on with it.

431
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 1: But yes, the Oreo filling. The man credited with its

432
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: modern incarnation is named mister Sam Porcello. First of all,

433
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 1: did you know that there's a reason why cream in

434
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: Oreo is spelled cr e e because it contains no

435
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: dairy and therefore cannot be marketed using the spelling of cream,

436
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 1: which implies that cash is everywhere around me. Also, while

437
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: we're on the topic of cream, each original Oreo cookie

438
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: is twenty nine percent cream and seventy one percent cookie.

439
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: That is the official ratio, and Oreo bakeries make more

440
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: than one hundred and twenty three thousand tons of cream

441
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 1: to fill their cookies each year. That's incredible.

442
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: I want you to Viking funeral me into the Oreo cream.

443
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 2: Event it just put me on a pire and sent

444
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 2: me on fire in the middle of one of those.

445
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: The gentleman who's credited with creating the modern incarnation of

446
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: the Oreo cream mister Sam Porcello. He arrived at Nabisco

447
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty nine and worked there for thirty four years,

448
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: retiring in nineteen ninety three. Porcello's actual title was Principal Scientist,

449
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: but his son described him as one of the world's

450
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: foremost experts on coco, which eventually earned him the nickname

451
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: the autorific. Really, mister Oreos.

452
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: This is where it gets really wild. Sarah Joyner is

453
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: this woman who uncovered this. It basically makes journalists look bad?

454
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: Is this whole story? So, but go ahead continue. I

455
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: just want to credit her because she really did the

456
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 2: leg work here.

457
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: Yes, ground zero for this whole theory that Porcello is

458
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: the guy who created the modern Oreo filling appears in

459
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: his twenty twelve obituary in the New York Daily News,

460
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: which was then picked up by the blogging community around

461
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: the world. Yes, this woman Sarah Joyner researching Pacello in

462
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, reached out to Mondelez, which is the parent

463
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: company of Oreo, and they told her it would be

464
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: inaccurate to say that Sam Porcello invented the modern Oreo cream,

465
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: and a former Oreo rep she was exchanging emails with

466
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: said that she hadn't even heard of Porcello. So there's

467
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 1: some kind of erasure going on here at this time.

468
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: Orio really isn't like crediting the people who are behind.

469
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: You got the guy who invented the embossing, you get

470
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: the guy who invented the modern cream. Something's going on here,

471
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: But it turns out that the real story is, as ever,

472
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: very technical and boring. Porcello what's largest contribution to the

473
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: Orio cookie was in modifying the chemical composition of the

474
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: filling so that it was solid at room temperature but

475
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: melts ninety eight degrees as in when it hits your mouth.

476
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: But he shared those developments with three other food scientists,

477
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: and basically the credit he gets for being mister Oreo

478
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: pretty much comes down to the work of his own

479
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: family's hagiography since his death.

480
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,959
Speaker 2: This whole thing is so fascinating to me because if

481
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 2: you look up Oreo and you look up oreo filling.

482
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: It's like lodged in seo. But the original New York

483
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 2: Daily News link is dead and you can only find

484
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 2: it through the Internet news archives. So the only link

485
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: to this story is now in like it's like playing telephone.

486
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 2: It's only in blogs aggregating that story. So one is

487
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: on Time, the Time magazine website. And so this woman,

488
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: Sarah Joyner is researching this and it basically I think

489
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: what happened was this New York Daily News guy knew

490
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 2: or heard or got a tip about this guy dying

491
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: and just interviewed his family, and his family was like,

492
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: oh yeah, Dad was like, mister Orio, he invented the

493
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: oreo filling. But the more you dig into it, the

494
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 2: more it turns out that, like he just refined the

495
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: formula with a bunch of really boring food chemistry things

496
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: related to filling solubility, and he retired nineteen ninety three, which,

497
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 2: you know, we get into this next thing. They take

498
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: out lard in nineteen eighty four, and they take out

499
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: the vegetable oils they replaced the lard with in two

500
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: thousand and six, So by twenty twenty, his formula was

501
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: already two recipes out of date. And this woman, this

502
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: Sarah Joyner, is it's very sweet because she's like talking

503
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: to his son and she's like, oh yeah, like they

504
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: wouldn't have kept up with the formula changes. Like to them,

505
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: their dad is still the guy who invented the Oreo filling.

506
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: Like their dad is still mister Oreo. They didn't mean

507
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 2: to mislead anyone. It was just like lazy journalism. Nobody

508
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 2: bothered to fact check that. And it's just I don't know,

509
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: I find it very sweet in like this American life

510
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: sort of way. Like this family from Jersey is just

511
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 2: like their dad is mister Oreo to them, and they

512
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 2: told he always will be and he always will be.

513
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 2: And they told a single paper and the paper didn't

514
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 2: bother to fact check it, and it's become fact anyway.

515
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: I just want to tell everyone that I titled this

516
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: next section a Rabbi and a blowtorch walk into a

517
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 2: cookie factory. Remember how I said when hydrugs were hugely

518
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: popular with the Jewish community because they were kosher, so Oreo,

519
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 2: in their apparently never ending quest to bury all memory

520
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: of their predecessor and salt the Earth, decided to alter

521
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: their recipe and go kosher in nineteen ninety four, years

522
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: after Burchello retired, or the year after Brichella retired.

523
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,479
Speaker 1: Also nineteen eighty four, at a time when hydrocks barely exist.

524
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 2: Yeah right, they're like someone was just it's like a

525
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: Monty Burns, Like one of the last surviving executives is

526
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: like crush jocks. This is so fascinating to me. This guy,

527
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 2: Joe Regenstein, professor of food science at Cornell and director

528
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: of the Cornell Kosher and Lull Food Initiative, called this

529
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: process probably the most expensive conversion of a company from

530
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 2: non kosher to kosher in in two thousand and eight interview.

531
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: And this apparently started when a number of ice cream

532
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: companies wanted to start using oreos in their products which

533
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 2: were kosher and couldn't because of the lar so. Nibisco

534
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: owned approximately one hundred baking ovens, each about three hundred

535
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: feet in length, and they all had to be converted

536
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: to kosher, the process that literally involved a rabbi crawling

537
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: through them with a blow torch. Because the ovens were

538
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: not kosher and baking is a dry, high heat process,

539
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: each one of these units had to be heated to

540
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: red hot temperatures. Regenstein said, you need to use a

541
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: blow torch to clean away the forbidden materials, so I

542
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: tell my therapist. Additionally, each oven contained a soft plastic

543
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: belt that cost upwards of one hundred and fifty thousand

544
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: dollars at a time, and each of these needed to

545
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: be replaced. This process took three and a half years,

546
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: wound up in nineteen ninety seven, after which I guess

547
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: they got Zelda Reubinstein from the Poltergeist movie to come

548
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: in and be like, this house is clean.

549
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: This all brings us to a larger question, how do

550
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: you make an oreo? Well, obviously, the official ingredient list

551
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: is a closely guarded secret, and if we told you,

552
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: we'd have to kill you. But there are eleven major ingredients.

553
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: The hours follows sugar, unbleached flour, canola oil, high fructose

554
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: corn syrup, baking soda, corn start, soile, liketin, vanillin, and chocolate.

555
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: And in an article celebrating the seventy fifth birthday of

556
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: oreos from back in nineteen eighty six, this piece describes

557
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: five hundred degree gas ovens as long as football fields,

558
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: capable of cranking out two thousand cookies a minute, and

559
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: to quote the piece an oreo takes less than an

560
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,479
Speaker 1: hour to make a half hour of mixing in bins

561
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: the size of Volkswagen beetles, and another twenty minutes on

562
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: the conveyor belts being pressed into shape and then bobbing

563
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: along from the third floor to the first, through ovens

564
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: and cooling tunnels, under the icing drum, and into machines

565
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: that stack and deal oreos like cards into cellophane packages.

566
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: But the five folks at Nabisco have a rigid approach

567
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: to quality control, and there are quote bins the size

568
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: of hot tubs filled with broken oreo wafers, and some

569
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: of these are ground up and reused in the batter,

570
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: while others are sold to ice cream companies to be

571
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: crumbled and mixed into their ice cream. But about five

572
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: percent of the cookies wind up b and R or

573
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: broken and rejected and thrown away, And says haven't we

574
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: all been b and R at one time or another?

575
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 4: As you meditate on that, we'll be right back with

576
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 4: more too much information after these messages. Next step we

577
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 4: have a little section called Karma commer Comma, Karma, karma

578
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 4: cavig Nope.

579
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 2: That was terrible. Don't I swear to God if you

580
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 2: don't cut that. They replaced the lard with partially hydrogenated

581
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: vegetable oil, and then they subsequently replace that in two

582
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 2: thousand and six with healthier and more expensive non hydrogenated

583
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: vegetable oil. Folks, if you're waiting for an explanation for

584
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: what those terms are, wait longer, because I don't have it.

585
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: This came after the FDA in two thousand and three

586
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: had announced new labeling requirements that required manufacturers to list

587
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: transfats on their packaging.

588
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: Which are closely linked to heart disease. Especially They're fine

589
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: with doing it until they're being ordered to actually, well.

590
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're doing it, yeah, every single company in the world.

591
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: So at some point this change in formula gave rise

592
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 2: to the claim that Oreos are vegan, which is like

593
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 2: one of the most commonly recited talking points about them.

594
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: But according to at least one check of their UK website,

595
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 2: there's just the possibility of cross contaminations with dairy products

596
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: at their facilities, and one extremely hard line vegan blog

597
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: that I found they contacted the OREO directly in twenty

598
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: ten and got the answer that, unfortunately for the militant

599
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 2: vegans among us. Some of the enzymes used to condition

600
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: dough in processed goods are animal derived, so you've got

601
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 2: the blood of microscopic organisms on your hands. And some

602
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 2: sugar suppliers use the animal derived natural charcoal bone jar

603
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 2: in their sugar cane refining process. So depending on your

604
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: tolerance for animal products, and we are literally talking parts

605
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: per million. But if you're nothing, no shame. If you're

606
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: one of those people who's like, I want everything, I

607
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: need to be completely free of the blood of animals,

608
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: I don't think Oreos your ticket there. Speaking of enormous

609
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: multinational corporations, there is an entertaining story of some corporate

610
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 2: subterfuge that entangled Oreo recently. Recently ish in twenty fourteen,

611
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: two California men were sentenced to prison time after stealing

612
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: the formula for a chemical whitening agent called typ titanium

613
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: dioxide from American chemical company du Pont. So this titanium

614
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: oxide dioxide from DuPont specifically is like the purest, like

615
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: most sought after white pigment in the world, and it's

616
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: jealously guarded, and so these guys broke in there and

617
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: sold the formula to Pengang Group, a Chinese company that

618
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: had been unsuccessfully trying to buy this formula for over

619
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 2: twenty million dollars. The conviction of these men in the

620
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: court documents subsequently leaked to the fact that Oreo used

621
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: this chemical to whiten their filling and had hit it

622
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: from the ingredients list, which caused some concern because recent

623
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: studies have flagged it as a carcinogen. So all is

624
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 2: not as pure white as the driven filling.

625
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 1: And speaking of oreos and countries with communist ties with

626
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: whom we have a troubled relationship, did you know that

627
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: oreos apparently weren't officially available in Russia until twenty fifteen?

628
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: Did you?

629
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: Did you?

630
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: Did you.

631
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 2: Look at me when I'm talking to you?

632
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 1: China got them a little earlier in nineteen ninety six,

633
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: but they tanked when they were first released, to the

634
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: point that they actually considered withdrawing Oreos from Chinese stores

635
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: all together, but instead in the Bisco parent company at

636
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: the time, Kraft decided to take a very ironically democratic

637
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: approach and ask the Chinese consumers what they didn't like

638
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: about Oreos so they could adapt them for that market,

639
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: And after receiving feedback, they invented a new kind of

640
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 1: Oreo to appeal to China, and it's more like a wafer.

641
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: It's four layers of a crispy cookie with a vanilla

642
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: or chocolate cream center in the middle, not unlike a pirouette.

643
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: You know, those kind of long cigar shaped things. Yeah,

644
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: it's like that. It's very, very, very different from the

645
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: Oreo we know in love. By two thousand and six,

646
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 1: this Oreo wafer had become the best selling biscuit in China,

647
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: just after a decade after they were considering withdrawing from

648
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,720
Speaker 1: the market altogether. They were now number one and Kraft

649
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: expanded the production of this adapted cookie into other parts

650
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: of Asia, Australia and even Canada. And they were all

651
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: sorts of interesting international flavors of oreos. There is blueberry

652
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: ice cream and coconut delight in Indonesia, Argentina has a

653
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: duo flavor Dulce de leche and banana, and China has

654
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: green tea flavored and mango. And in August of twenty eighteen,

655
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,919
Speaker 1: they released two savory flavored Oreo fillings, hot chicken wing

656
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: and wasabi, which Jesus Christ. This leads us to our

657
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 1: patented section on gross Oreo flavors.

658
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: All right, so the original failure was a lemon I

659
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: think they made lemon moringe. They call it lemon morine

660
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: Oreo in nineteen twenties, which discontinued.

661
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 1: I think that was released alongside like the chocolate Oreo

662
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: when they first dropped in nineteen twelve.

663
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: Satists Golden Oreos are vanilla cookies with the same vanilla

664
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 2: cream as the original Oreos. Golden chocolate cream oreos, known

665
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 2: as the quote uh oh Oreo until two thousand and seven,

666
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: are the reverse of the original cookie vanilla cookies chocolate

667
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 2: cream frosting. But here's what you folks have been waiting for.

668
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 2: A semi complete list of other Oreo flavors, running the

669
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 2: gamut from mildly offbeat to fully disgusting. There's the famous

670
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: birthday cake oreos good, Swedish fish, bad cream, sickle, banana

671
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: split cream, really bad, Neapolitan.

672
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: Sure.

673
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: I don't even know what triple double means. I guess

674
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 2: that's triple stuff.

675
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good, good best so far. Candy corn No,

676
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: I don't like candy corn as a standalone thing. Oreo

677
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: as a subpar cookie coconut fudge. Sure, aren't those just

678
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: hop lungs or dosy does or whatever from the growth

679
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 1: cut cookies? Oh no, those are samoas and those are

680
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,439
Speaker 1: way better. But that's fine.

681
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: Gingerbread, sure, candy cane, white fudge covered Okay, yeah, I

682
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: don't even know how you do this. Cookies and cream oreos.

683
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: I don't either, because that's cookies and cream is Oreo flavored,

684
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: so it's an Oreo flavored oreo.

685
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 2: I know a cursive oreo. No, I've gone across side

686
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: root for your float. No watermelon, terrible, marshmallow crisp.

687
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: I don't understand that.

688
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 2: No caramel, apple, no lime aide. God, there's definitely Yeah,

689
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: I mean pumpkin spice. You have to That was good?

690
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: That was good? Yeah, okay, it goes very good.

691
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: Cookie dough, Yeah, it's fine. Red velvet cotton candy.

692
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: Sure, s'mores cinnamon bone, which is not on here was

693
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: the best.

694
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: Oh have you had the churro shaped oreos? No, I

695
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: think they're just those. The flavors are the same, they're

696
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: just shaped like churros.

697
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: Oh I have seen those? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, No, I

698
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: haven't had those yet. Actually, I haven't had most of these.

699
00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: I'm just judging from the name. If you missed out

700
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: on the chance to see these these limited edition Oreo

701
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: flavors on store shelves, you're in luck. There was an

702
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,919
Speaker 1: exhibit at the Museum of Failure in Los Angeles which

703
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: has most of these flavors, although the exhibit might have

704
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: closed by now. It's also Coca Cola flavored Oreo, which

705
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: I don't remember seeing that a synergy thing. Yeah, somebody

706
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 1: got paid.

707
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,919
Speaker 2: Drunk John Draper right.

708
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: And hit the table. And you know, I've often wondered

709
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: in those twilight hours when I can't sleep and I'm

710
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: pondering all the things that are going wrong in my life,

711
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 1: and to try to make it so that I can't

712
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: actually have a few moments of blissful slumber before I

713
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: have to wake up and face another day of compiling

714
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: these insanely researched episodes. I think about, why, why with

715
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: the good folks at Nibisco flood the market with these

716
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: truly grotesque flavors Oreos more than fifty at this point,

717
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: more often than not disgusting. Well, apparently there's a method

718
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: to their madness. GQ interviewed a Coronell University behavioral economist

719
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: named David just to explain this phenomenon. The key is

720
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: that Nabisco's not trying to introduce the flavors for long

721
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: term consumption. He says, you build in this idea of

722
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: really tacky flavors, and that sort of builds this relationship

723
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: to the consumer who likes to sort of check out

724
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 1: these kitchy Oreos, he explained, and as an added bonus,

725
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 1: many younger consumers basically give the company free pr by

726
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: posting these new flavor reviews on social media. So David

727
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: just describes this approach by Oreos as quote, building a

728
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: personality behind its brand.

729
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 2: I love them. Do you buy that? Sounds like corporate

730
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: portions to me?

731
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: I mean I buy it. I think it's a cheap

732
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: and easy ole, relatively cheap and easy way of market

733
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: testing new flavors that they can maybe enter into the mainstream.

734
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: And also, yeah, that's actually I thought I hell of

735
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,280
Speaker 1: a lot more about Oreos when they introduced some bizarre

736
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: new flavor that more often than not I was curious

737
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: about trying than I would have It was just the

738
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: same old thing that had been around for one hundred

739
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: and ten years.

740
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 2: So yeah, maybe, yeah, true all right, KGI good for them. Uh. Then,

741
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 2: of course Oreos oreo O's cereal launched in teen ninety seven,

742
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: discontinued in two thousand and seven everywhere other than South Korea,

743
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 2: and relaunched ten years later. And speaking of twenty seventeen,

744
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 2: Virginia based the Veil Brewing Company released a version of

745
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 2: their chocolate milk stout called a horn Swoggler that was

746
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 2: infused with actual Oreo cookies. I haven't tried it, don't

747
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 2: know how I feel about it, don't care. Uh, I'm

748
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 2: not going to Virginia for chocolate stuff, even if it

749
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 2: does have I can't believe it's taken us as long

750
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 2: to get to double stuff. Yeah, but like many things

751
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: at the heart of America, it is a lot featuring

752
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: not actually double but closer to one point eight six

753
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: times as much stuff. Those date back to nineteen seventy five.

754
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: Apparently it was like a high school class that actually

755
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: crunched the numbers on that and figured out that it

756
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: wasn't actually double stuffed. It was like a big story.

757
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 2: A couple of years ago we mentioned the triple stuff,

758
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 2: but that was not the biggest Oreo nineteen eighty four

759
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: Oreo introduced the Big Stuff varietal, which is about ten

760
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: times the size of regular Oreo Wow. Sold individually. Each

761
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 2: Big Stuff contained two hundred and fifty calories, which that's

762
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 2: actually which I thought thirteen grams of fat had tracks.

763
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: I saw an anecdote earlier that it took someone like

764
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 2: twenty minutes to eat one at a sustainable pace.

765
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because it's like it's probably like saltines your

766
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 1: mouth from a cookie, it's gets so dry. It's probably

767
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: hard to.

768
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 2: Eat three inches in diameter. That can possibly be right?

769
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: How thick is it?

770
00:43:58,280 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I guess that's true.

771
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's say six on top, six on the bottom,

772
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: or five on top. Okay, I can see that how

773
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: that would work. The ad for the Big Stuff is

774
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: on YouTube and it's pretty great, and naturally the jingle

775
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: is a riff on Gen Nights Mister Big Stuff, because

776
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: of course, and hell Oreo could afford it.

777
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 2: Well.

778
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: We mentioned earlier at the top of the episode that

779
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: the classic Oreo twist behavior has been part of the

780
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: brand's identity from very early on, back in the twenties.

781
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: But what does your preference for Oreo consumption patterns say

782
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 1: about you? Well, according to one widely disseminated study, and

783
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: we use that term loosely done by craft. In two

784
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: thousand and four, they studied the habits of two thousand

785
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: oreo eaters. Dunkers are supposed to be quote energetic, adventurous,

786
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: and social, while twisters are quote sensitive, emotional, artistic, and trendy.

787
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: And finally, biers are quote easygoing, self confident and optimistic.

788
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: That this is probably a bad time to ask which

789
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: one are you?

790
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 4: Uh?

791
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 2: Is there a pithy phrase for when you just reach

792
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 2: your hand into a bag of loose, crumbled ones and

793
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 2: just kind of shove a fist full in your mouth.

794
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 2: Your bag is balanced on your stomach and you're watching

795
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 2: Northern Exposure on a laptop instead of going on to

796
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 2: work because you can't raise your head that day? Is

797
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 2: there a word for that?

798
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: That's the depression technique of eating oreos. I mean, I

799
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 1: don't understand the when you twist it apart. Are you

800
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: supposed to lick the center because you can't lick the

801
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: cream because it's solid?

802
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we have mister sam Porcello to think

803
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 2: for that, right, But if you hold your tongue, yeah,

804
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: like an art show exactly, you just hold it up

805
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 2: to your tongue until the body temperature heats it up

806
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 2: in a slide it off that I have no idea

807
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. I think honestly, like in all

808
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 2: of my lockdown Bodega snack runs, I think they got

809
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: nutter butters like everything. I'm not at like a do

810
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 2: both of us not like cornes? Weird thing to come

811
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: up an hour eight into this podcast.

812
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: They're fine.

813
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: No.

814
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: To me, it's like the sprite of cookies. It's like

815
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 1: that's what you have at the party when there's nothing

816
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: else there, and.

817
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 2: You'll have it, but like, just feel something anything.

818
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: Perhaps unsurprisingly, given the love that people have for oreos,

819
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: science has gotten involved more than once. In the late nineties,

820
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: Len Fisher, physics professor at the University of Bristol, claimed

821
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: decades old mathematical formula describing capillary action, which is the

822
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: phenomenon that describes how liquids cling to dry surfaces, could

823
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: predict the perfect dunk time for a cookie, and using

824
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: a formula from American scientist E. W. You wash burn

825
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 1: and testing with ink blots first, he described the perfect

826
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: amount of time for dipping quote regular British biscuits at

827
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: three and a half to five seconds. Crucially, though, he

828
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: did not test oreos, and so in twenty sixteen, members

829
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: of the Utah State University's Splash Lab stepped up to

830
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: the plate and corrected this grievous error in a test

831
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: of Oreos chips, ahoy nut or butters, and gram crackers.

832
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: They dipped the cookies halfway in two percent milk for

833
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: half a second to seven seconds, and after dunking, the

834
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: team weighed the treats and measured how much milk had

835
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: been absorbed. The results, I know you're dying to know.

836
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: Oreos absorbed fifty percent of their potential liquid weight in

837
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: just one second. After two seconds they absorbed eighty percent,

838
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: and the number flat line briefly for a second, and

839
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: after the fourth second the cookie maxed out. It absorbed

840
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 1: all its possible milk. So if you were a dunk

841
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 1: your oreos for more than four seconds, you're wasting your

842
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: precious time on this planet. So do with that what

843
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: you will. But for those taking their dipping seriously, which

844
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: if you listen this far you probably do, there is

845
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 1: a tool for dipping called the dipper DPR, which began

846
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 1: with the kickstarter in twenty eleven, and it's been hailed

847
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: as the latest and greatest in cookie spoons. It exists

848
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,760
Speaker 1: that your oreo will be dipped evenly and you won't

849
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: accidentally drop it in your milk, because, again, as you

850
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: just said earlier, if your oreo is suspended in milk

851
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: for more than five seconds, it's worthless. Carry on.

852
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 5: I'm just gonna rend battled that all of these institutions

853
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 5: are higher learning have put so much money and time

854
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:49,280
Speaker 5: towards oreos. Instead of a desalemization or cancer cloud bursting

855
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 5: any of these things, you could actually save the world.

856
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: While we're on the extremely academic studies of oreos, there

857
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: was a study published by researchers at Connecticut College in

858
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen which states that oreos activate the same pleasure

859
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: center in the brains of lab rats that was activated

860
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: by cocaine and morphine. The high fat and high sugar

861
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 1: triggers the addiction hotspot in the brain, and one student

862
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: also observed that the rats would quote break the oreos

863
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: open and eat the middle first, one of the many

864
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: ways that I am like a rat. In a less

865
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,879
Speaker 1: behavioral study that has to do with oreos, I would

866
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 1: like to discuss a little thing called the Oreo Run,

867
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: which we've been teasing this the whole episode. This was

868
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: a hazing ritual that took place at an Illinois high

869
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 1: school that made national headlines in October twenty eighteen, and,

870
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: according to a piece in the registrar Star, ten football

871
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: players were suspended for taking part in this event, the

872
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: Oreo Run, which entailed running across the school's football field

873
00:49:54,400 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: naked with an oreo wedged an oreo, shall we say,

874
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 1: up there there were cram and oreos up there, left

875
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: and right, left, right, and center, mostly center. The offending

876
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: parties were required to quote sit out three football games,

877
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: although given the crime, I'm guessing that they probably stood. No,

878
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 1: not even a titter.

879
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 2: No. I just I don't know, man, Just this stuff

880
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 2: is soon really high school team. So I just that's

881
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 2: behaving at all, man, Like, Oh yeah, I mean I

882
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 2: used to put cigarette buds out of my arms for

883
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 2: like a party trick. But I didn't put stuff up

884
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 2: my ass, especially not food stuffs. You know, I was

885
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 2: told they were starving children across the world. Yeah, your

886
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 2: food is for your mouth. Your family sweated for that food.

887
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 2: You don't put it in your ass.

888
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: It's a PSA, there's no trace of humor your voice

889
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: whatsoever right now? Genuine offense. I mean, I mean, God

890
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 1: bless you, all power to you. I'm yes, I agree

891
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: with you. I agree with everything he was saying. I

892
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: this is the hill that we're gonna tie on.

893
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,399
Speaker 2: Just bumps me out. I don't know. Weird. Find find

894
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 2: better to do with your life, people, Getness. Book of

895
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 2: World Records unsurprisingly has a lot of entries related to oreos.

896
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 2: On January thirtieth, twenty twenty, it closest the Western world

897
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 2: ever got to true happiness. Mondolaz employees from fifty five

898
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 2: locations representing thirty two countries around the globe tuned in

899
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 2: and set a new record for most dunked cookies simultaneously,

900
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 2: five sixty six employees dunking at the same time, nearly

901
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: two years earlier, in April twenty eighteen. In April twenty eighteen,

902
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 2: Mandolaz celebrated the opening of a plant in Bahrain with

903
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 2: the largest oreo ever. It was nearly one hundred and

904
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 2: sixty two pounds, and it was subsequently distributed among frant

905
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 2: employees and the local village. Wow, so sorry, we don't

906
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 2: I don't know I'm about to make it. I don't

907
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 2: know if they how well they paid them, they get

908
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 2: some Oreos.

909
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: And lastly, per Guinness, oreos are officially the world's favorite cookie,

910
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: available in more than one hundred countries around the globe.

911
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: Approximately thirty four billion Oreo cookies are sold each year.

912
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: That's ninety two million cookies per day, with ten billion

913
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: of those cookies sold in the US annually, and an

914
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: estimated five hundred billion Oreo cookies have been sold since

915
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: they debuted in nineteen twelve. That is enough to wrap

916
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: around the Earth three hundred and eighty one times, or

917
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: reach the moon and back five times.

918
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 2: Wow, this is where you're like, Yeah, send them to

919
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 2: the moon, but not backs join run up.

920
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,439
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, do something useful, use the ladder

921
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 1: of the moon if I doesn't need them.

922
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 2: Well, folks, I did not foresee being driven to the

923
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 2: brink of madness and back by what you've convinced me

924
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 2: is a garbage cookie for idiots who knew it was

925
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 2: oreos that broke both of us. But looking back, the

926
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 2: scribes will write of this evening, women will sing songs

927
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 2: and lament, and our sons will mash their teeth and

928
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 2: look skyward at all the oreos and circle in the

929
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 2: globe and say, there's Papa. Thanks for listening. I'm Alex

930
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 2: Cycle and.

931
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: I'm Jordan Runtag. And that's the way the cookie crumbled

932
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 1: us both. Oh too much information was the production of iHeartRadio.

933
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtogg.

934
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Mike Johns.

935
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,240
Speaker 2: The show was researched and written and by Jordan Rundgg

936
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 2: and Alex Heigel.

937
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: With original music by Seth Applebomb and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

938
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

939
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcasts and iHeartRadio, visit the

940
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

941
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: favorite shows.