Speaker 1: Do you always have a budget or do so some
Speaker 1: people not even care about budget. Well, everyone cares about
Speaker 1: a budget. If you know people, If anyone's listening and
Speaker 1: they don't care about a budget, you could call me immediately, immediately.
Speaker 1: Michael Smith is one of the most respected interior designers
Speaker 1: of our time. He has been named to Architectural Digests
Speaker 1: a D one hundred seven times. He has been called
Speaker 1: Designer of the Year by l Decor, and he was
Speaker 1: appointed to the Committee for the Preservation of the White
Speaker 1: House In two thousand and ten. When Barack and Michelle
Speaker 1: Obama moved into the White House, they chose Michael Smith
Speaker 1: to decorate their residential quarters. Some of Michael's other clients
Speaker 1: include Steven Spielberg, Elaine Wynn, Shonda Rhimes, Harrison Ford, and
Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch, to name just a few. And today Michael
Speaker 1: is taking time from his very busy day to catch
Speaker 1: up with me on my podcast, Welcome to My Farm,
Speaker 1: My thank you. I mean, I'd always take time. We'll
Speaker 1: talk to you anyway. Well, thank you for coming all
Speaker 1: the way to Bedford and uh we are very excited
Speaker 1: to talk to you. Before we sat down to do
Speaker 1: the podcast, Michael and I were ranting, as is our habit,
Speaker 1: ranting about politics, or ranting about the upcoming mid terms,
Speaker 1: ranting about a lot of other things that are going on.
Speaker 1: So now it's really a pleasure to sit down and
Speaker 1: talk to you about your real business. Thank you, fantastic business,
Speaker 1: which is interior design and decoration. Thank you. I am um,
Speaker 1: I have to say after you. We're very kind about
Speaker 1: the I've actually they retired me and I'm in a
Speaker 1: pasture called the Hall of Fame, so I don't don't
Speaker 1: have to run the race anymore. Good hall of fame
Speaker 1: is probably better. But you're young. You're young to be
Speaker 1: in a hall of fame. You know what I used
Speaker 1: to be young. It's not yeah, it's over, it's on that.
Speaker 1: I'm on the I'm on the slide. When I first
Speaker 1: met you, you were much younger, twenty years younger. You
Speaker 1: were not even fifty years old, correct, And you were
Speaker 1: on the top of the decorating heap. And you are
Speaker 1: continuing to be on the top of that fantastic group
Speaker 1: of really talented people who know how to make people's homes,
Speaker 1: make people's houses their homes. Thank you. Now, that's wonderful. No,
Speaker 1: when I met you, I wear shorts. I didn't even
Speaker 1: wear long pants really, so you are among the most respective,
Speaker 1: exclusive and most sought after original designers. When did you
Speaker 1: start this design business? You know what's so funny because
Speaker 1: I started, Uh you're talking about I mean, look, it's
Speaker 1: a long time ago. I was twenty three. Um. One
Speaker 1: of my first clients. Look at I was so lucky.
Speaker 1: One of my first clients was Bruce Springsteen. I mean
Speaker 1: I had did you do his farm? I did not
Speaker 1: do his farm. That was another life, a different incarnation
Speaker 1: of his life. But you know, I did a house
Speaker 1: in l A. It was twenty three. It was sort
Speaker 1: of crazy. So I came out of the shoot sort
Speaker 1: of speedy. Uh. And I was incredibly lucky. And people
Speaker 1: have been, thank god fortunately very kind to me and
Speaker 1: very supportive of me for a long time. I you know,
Speaker 1: I at the top of the heap. Is it's not
Speaker 1: so attractive, but I guess I'm happy to be at
Speaker 1: the top of anything at this point, so it's good
Speaker 1: to for me. Is very flattering. Good Like a heap
Speaker 1: can be a heap of diamonds. It can be like
Speaker 1: I was thinking, comy, no heap of diamonds. You are
Speaker 1: ready brand is on leaves and compost and apples. I
Speaker 1: don't see anyway you are on furniture and decoration and
Speaker 1: paintings and arch and everything else. But but how do
Speaker 1: you describe the decorating style that has evolved as the
Speaker 1: Michael Smith style of decorating? Oh God, I mean you
Speaker 1: would probably be better at answering that than me. Um.
Speaker 1: I think, Look, I think what's interesting is I mean,
Speaker 1: I think you you. I think kind of everyone we
Speaker 1: know whose taste we love, I think I would include
Speaker 1: you absolutely in that group. Is really about we're all
Speaker 1: kind of classicists. I mean, I think classicism is not
Speaker 1: just traditionalism. I think it's about wanting a kind of
Speaker 1: pure take on something. You know, if you're looking at
Speaker 1: Italian fifties or uh misce Vandero or contemporary architecture, I
Speaker 1: think you wanted to be kind of pure. You know that.
Speaker 1: That's what I think my sort of taste is. If
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do something, I'm really going to be interested
Speaker 1: in a intellectual idea behind it. I'm gonna want to
Speaker 1: know sort of what was the what's the strongest version
Speaker 1: of it? And then if I want to sort of
Speaker 1: alter it or hybrid it was something else. I think
Speaker 1: at least I know the rules. It's like in anything, right,
Speaker 1: it's in food, it's in anything. I think you want
Speaker 1: to you want to know the original intent and then
Speaker 1: you can kind of make it into whatever is personal
Speaker 1: or appropriate for what you're doing going forward. Well, having
Speaker 1: met many of the what we call the top designers
Speaker 1: top decorators around here in the world, um, Um, I
Speaker 1: sort of know the answer to this question about about
Speaker 1: what what you really do. But your job is really
Speaker 1: a big job because you're given a project. You're giving
Speaker 1: you're given a house or an apartment or a mansion
Speaker 1: or a building, and you are asked to make it
Speaker 1: a living space. So, um, what does it take? What
Speaker 1: skills does it take to become Besides being a very
Speaker 1: friendly kind of person, most decorators are very friendly by
Speaker 1: the way listeners because um, and they hob nob with
Speaker 1: their clients, They entertain with their clients, they travel with
Speaker 1: their clients, They become best friends with their clients, and
Speaker 1: I think that that's very essential if you're really building
Speaker 1: a relationship with a client. To to do that well, No,
Speaker 1: I think, Look, I think it's very you have to
Speaker 1: fall in love with your work. To do this kind
Speaker 1: of work, I think post COVID it's really hard. I
Speaker 1: just was super honored. I just received I think last weekend,
Speaker 1: an award in the San Francisco Antique Show. And I
Speaker 1: was introduced by a peer who I really respect, Suzanne Tucker,
Speaker 1: who said, you know you're a no. I don't need
Speaker 1: any an introduction. I'm a legend. I'm whatever years old.
Speaker 1: How can you be a legend, You're not not my words,
Speaker 1: but legends are people who have retired or died soon.
Speaker 1: I both. But I was introduced with this sort of thing,
Speaker 1: and I got up in front of all these people
Speaker 1: and said, look, listen, I'm so honored, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I just had a fight with my upholster. I mean
Speaker 1: that's you know, it's interesting. It's like, you know, we
Speaker 1: I may be on top of a heat, but I'm
Speaker 1: also on top of a big pyramid of a lot
Speaker 1: of things that can go wrong. And post COVID, before
Speaker 1: COVID always difficult, but what about during during COVID whole
Speaker 1: other movie? Now, you know, I spend most of my
Speaker 1: time trying to things don't arrive. They arrived broken, were charged,
Speaker 1: to repair them. I become much more um the creative,
Speaker 1: which I love and listen, it's the sustenance. I couldn't
Speaker 1: do it if I didn't love the people or the job.
Speaker 1: But the getting things done is becoming so horrible, and
Speaker 1: there's a kind of it just needs to go back
Speaker 1: a little bit to what it was where people really
Speaker 1: do try to deliver with some you know, it's like
Speaker 1: everyone took their belt off and it's just relaxed in
Speaker 1: a certain way. But it's very hard in what I
Speaker 1: do because so many people have to really give their
Speaker 1: best and be you know, sort of house proud and
Speaker 1: proud of their work and all at the same time.
Speaker 1: So it's a really it's become very very challenging. Always tough,
Speaker 1: always challenging, but now I think it's become something unbelievably difficult.
Speaker 1: Well for you, let's take you just you finished just
Speaker 1: I think right pre COVID. You finished an amazing home
Speaker 1: on Park Avenue and one of the very see if
Speaker 1: schmancy is buildings in New York City, a building an
Speaker 1: apartment that other people looked at, many people looked at
Speaker 1: and couldn't figure out how to combine this. These two apartments.
Speaker 1: Is it's a duplexes, it's two duplex, two duplexes put together.
Speaker 1: And so go through that, just go through step by
Speaker 1: step what it took to put those things together. Oh god,
Speaker 1: how many square feet did a tramp to be? Well?
Speaker 1: We don't have to mention names, no mention no, of
Speaker 1: course not um it uh. I think it's you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's ten thousand square feet, twelve thousand feet.
Speaker 1: It's a very big apartment, very famously two apartments with
Speaker 1: two little doors, one on the upstairs, one on the downstairs.
Speaker 1: And I think with Oscar Shamami and who I've worked
Speaker 1: for a long time, who's a fantastic architect. We I
Speaker 1: think many many people had tried to buy it and
Speaker 1: looked at it, and everyone thought you couldn't connect it.
Speaker 1: We had this idea of like taking out a stairway
Speaker 1: and changing where the stair was. Now it's a Candela building,
Speaker 1: who people, if they don't know, Candella is the most
Speaker 1: sort of lionized New York apartment architect of the early
Speaker 1: something crazy and um so the idea of this, this
Speaker 1: reverence of his plans, which are great. By moving a staircase,
Speaker 1: it all kind of clicked into place and became one apartment,
Speaker 1: and that was a huge thing. Even people were super
Speaker 1: name brand people were sending notes to the owners saying congratulations.
Speaker 1: Too bad you can't connect them. So it's a huge victory. Lapp.
Speaker 1: Then it took three years, even during COVID, to to
Speaker 1: really remodel it. And that was, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: before before all this stuff happened and sort of changed
Speaker 1: the world. And that was before distribution and supply chains word.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's a it's a hard it's building
Speaker 1: a ship in a bottle. I mean it's really hard.
Speaker 1: Apartments are very hard, just to get furniture up to
Speaker 1: those upper floors in New York buildings. I bought an
Speaker 1: apartment once. My daughter said when when Richard Meyer built
Speaker 1: those three towers down on the Hudson River, she called
Speaker 1: me even said, Mom, the first Brisher Meyer towers up,
Speaker 1: you have to buy an apartment in it. So I
Speaker 1: looked at it. I bought the penthouse, which was two floors.
Speaker 1: It's a tiny building, and I never focused on the
Speaker 1: fact that it had only one elevator, and these were
Speaker 1: the top floors, fourteen and fifteen. One little elevator so
Speaker 1: to get anything to that apartment was meant a crane,
Speaker 1: meant closing off New York streets, meant lifting everything by
Speaker 1: crane up and put it, taking things down. It was insane,
Speaker 1: and you could only work a certain number of hours
Speaker 1: a day because because there was only one elevator and
Speaker 1: it was for everybody. So so that was such a mistake.
Speaker 1: And then the windows started to crack before I even
Speaker 1: finished my job, so I sold it because who wants
Speaker 1: cracking windows in a in a brand new building? So
Speaker 1: but I I was a mess. And I can imagine
Speaker 1: in a fancy residential building on Park Avenue, how much,
Speaker 1: how much really diplomacy you had to Oh my god, no, no, no, please,
Speaker 1: I'm on first name, first names with every elevator operator
Speaker 1: and every backup house doorman staff and how many cups
Speaker 1: of coffee did you bring to all these people? And
Speaker 1: a file? But I want to tell you that, no,
Speaker 1: it's so funny. So yesterday I'm moving people into an
Speaker 1: apartment on Fifth Avenue. I had to sit in a
Speaker 1: sofa before I got craned up. I posted on Instagram
Speaker 1: and it was it made you, made you actually love
Speaker 1: New York. I'm sitting on the sofa checking it out,
Speaker 1: and four people walk by. Of course everyone stops to
Speaker 1: talk to me. It's a leather sofa with sort of
Speaker 1: a fabric in set. You know, the cushions are fabric.
Speaker 1: And this woman said to me, you know, my husband
Speaker 1: pointing to him behind there on their walk saying down
Speaker 1: Fifth Avenue, says, you know my husband slips on the leather.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's a good idea to change out
Speaker 1: the cushions to fabric. I'm like, yes, corduroy like my suit,
Speaker 1: same color as the leather. Everyone by free advice on
Speaker 1: Fifth Avenue. It's might I think I might want to
Speaker 1: do like a little pop up on Fifth Avenue. You
Speaker 1: could do it with me, would be great. And uh
Speaker 1: but what was wonderful? Without exception, everyone stopped to say,
Speaker 1: I love the color. I mean it was it's what
Speaker 1: you love about New York, which is the engagement which
Speaker 1: we're also thirsty for, you know, kind of engagement like
Speaker 1: that after after kind of being locked up for a
Speaker 1: long time. So say you are presented with a simple
Speaker 1: house built in say the fifties, a good a good architect.
Speaker 1: What's the first thing that you look at? Let's tell us,
Speaker 1: tell us your process. Actually, let's make it a designer
Speaker 1: house from the fifties. Okay, I mean the first thing
Speaker 1: I would look at look that that. I mean, I
Speaker 1: start really grow, right. So the first thing is always
Speaker 1: I kind of in my head make a list of
Speaker 1: two things. One is sort of implied, which is the
Speaker 1: house and the characteristics of it. Does have four bedrooms?
Speaker 1: Does it have two bathrooms for the primary bedroom? Does
Speaker 1: it have a kitchen that's big enough to have eat
Speaker 1: and you know all the stuff that's sort of boring,
Speaker 1: but it's like functional, right, It's I would have said
Speaker 1: to you if you talk to me about the apartment
Speaker 1: doesn't have a service elevator. By the way, cranes have
Speaker 1: doubled since the day per crane, since you did that
Speaker 1: in that and that time, they've doubled and probably the
Speaker 1: last two years. So a crane is a serious financial commitment. Um.
Speaker 1: But the first thing I would do is do that,
Speaker 1: and then I look at the second half of the list,
Speaker 1: is really what you want when you're buying this house?
Speaker 1: Do you do you need two bathrooms? Do you have
Speaker 1: enough closet space? How many children do you have? Do
Speaker 1: you you know, do you have a separate kitchen from
Speaker 1: a dining um. Really, it's it's the logistical stuff that
Speaker 1: I think you start with and you learn. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know this beds and anyone. You've done so many
Speaker 1: houses for yourself, and I know so many lived in them.
Speaker 1: So wonderfully, I think that the people sort of go
Speaker 1: to the decorating. Should it be blue, should it be green? Well?
Speaker 1: Does it work for you? Do you have enough space
Speaker 1: for your shoes? I mean, it's not glamorous, but it
Speaker 1: is the foundation of everything, which is how does it function?
Speaker 1: And I think it's all of this is so expensive
Speaker 1: and so time consuming, the mistakes are sort of intolerable.
Speaker 1: So I think that I try to really figure out
Speaker 1: how people live in a space. So if if it's
Speaker 1: the fifties designer house, the first thing I'll do is,
Speaker 1: you know, figure that out and in the fewest amount
Speaker 1: of cuts, how can you modify it to work for
Speaker 1: the people who are going to live there. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's logistics are the the end. But the beginning,
Speaker 1: I think is planning in preparation, and really does it
Speaker 1: is that have you done your homework in advance? So
Speaker 1: once you get the architecture, the structure figured out, and
Speaker 1: the number of bathrooms figured out, and the style of
Speaker 1: the kitchen. Um. When you take out, say an empty
Speaker 1: living room, what's the first thing you think about? Is
Speaker 1: it a rug? Is it a color? Is it I mean,
Speaker 1: it could be eating. It's such an interesting thing. It
Speaker 1: can be all of those things. I think. Listen, rugs
Speaker 1: are always super important to me because I think, again
Speaker 1: it depends. I remember you took me to a rug
Speaker 1: factory in Spain, to one of the Royal tapestry workshop.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, was that fascinating. We had Martha was really wonderful.
Speaker 1: When my partner, James Gossas was ambassador to Spain, Martha
Speaker 1: came on a representational trip and we had a completely
Speaker 1: wonderful time. And anything that I bought that I loved,
Speaker 1: Martha asked for it, and I gave a turn and
Speaker 1: she took home everything. But we have I mean, you've
Speaker 1: ever had so much cheese in such a short period
Speaker 1: of time in your life. And then we went to
Speaker 1: the Mayor's head thing and the thing I mean, we
Speaker 1: had like an extraordinary trip. I mean, that was a
Speaker 1: that was a really fun, wonderful time. But rugs are
Speaker 1: big and I think that wall finishes or I mean
Speaker 1: it's very hard. I think that decorating now at this
Speaker 1: level um requires a combination. It's three dimensional chest it's
Speaker 1: you know, the wall finishes with the rug, with how
Speaker 1: the furniture plan is laid out. Do you want to
Speaker 1: watch TV in there? Do you where do you put
Speaker 1: your Christmas tree? Do you you know, collect books or
Speaker 1: their bookcases? I think it's it's very macro. And then
Speaker 1: you go to things like the rugs, and and also
Speaker 1: where do people want to put their money? I mean,
Speaker 1: do you want to do on a beautiful antique carpet
Speaker 1: in that fifties house? Or do you want a wonderful
Speaker 1: thing from you know CB two or West Elm It's wonderful,
Speaker 1: that's simple, or you know a restoration woven seisle carpet.
Speaker 1: And then you really want to put the energy into
Speaker 1: upholstery or art or bookshelves or you know, how do
Speaker 1: you want to balance what you have? And I think
Speaker 1: those are at the highest level. I think people don't
Speaker 1: quite realize all of those things, the the sort of
Speaker 1: you know, importance with air quotes of the house, where
Speaker 1: the budget or all those things. It doesn't really change
Speaker 1: those basic fundamentals that you know, no one's gonna say
Speaker 1: do everything at full tilt everyone. Do you always have
Speaker 1: a budget or just so's some people not even care
Speaker 1: about budget. Well, everyone cares about a budget on their
Speaker 1: varying degrees, and they're varying focuses. But I think everyone
Speaker 1: cares about a budget. If you know, people, if anyone's
Speaker 1: listening and they don't care about a budget, you could
Speaker 1: call me. I'm happy to get immediately, please send me. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean everyone does. I think it's listened. One of
Speaker 1: the reasons look at the great success I have over
Speaker 1: time is having done twenty fift ten houses for people.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that you know, that's the loyalty
Speaker 1: the I remember meeting one of your clients and he
Speaker 1: told me that you had done that, that you were
Speaker 1: on your twenty one house, probably twenty three by now,
Speaker 1: I think. And to work for the children of my
Speaker 1: clients so I met when they were five, and to
Speaker 1: do their houses now and to do you know, I'm
Speaker 1: leaving you and going to a house that that it
Speaker 1: belongs to someone I've known since he was five years old,
Speaker 1: and you know now they had a certain standard of living. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and are they going to expect the same standard or
Speaker 1: can they afford the same thing that my parents afford. No,
Speaker 1: but I don't think that's I think look at I
Speaker 1: think you grow into everything and we think that would
Speaker 1: be inappropriate. And I don't think it's their interests, But
Speaker 1: I think that Look, I think that that idea of
Speaker 1: to your point about you started off discussing becoming friends
Speaker 1: or being invested, I mean the idea of seeing, you know,
Speaker 1: someone at five who I married with a rabbi when
Speaker 1: they got married and now has children of their own.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's an incredible gift to have that kind
Speaker 1: of knowledge of knowledge about their taste, but confidence, and
Speaker 1: also to see it evolve and see pieces that were
Speaker 1: from their parents be reused in their houses. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a really interesting um. It's been. It's been an
Speaker 1: extraordinarily generous group of people who I've worked for. But listen,
Speaker 1: I take that. I take it very seriously, take the
Speaker 1: responsibility seriously, and I take it. You know, it's it's
Speaker 1: joyful to be able to contain to work on for
Speaker 1: the same people and the trust you develop with stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, Shawnda rhymes and I had a conversation the
Speaker 1: other day where she said, look, I used to really
Speaker 1: ask you all these questions, and now I just know
Speaker 1: you know my taste and I just trust you to
Speaker 1: do it. That's a huge leap of fat. Well, we
Speaker 1: just saw an architectural, digestive, beautiful story, a cover story
Speaker 1: on Shonda rhymes new New York apartment which is very
Speaker 1: very beautiful and very expensive and kind of very fancy,
Speaker 1: well very bridgertain like to stick to brand. We're on
Speaker 1: Bridgertain brand, uh for with good reason. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I think that you know, it's it's a small apartment,
Speaker 1: it's a it's not always where she is and uh
Speaker 1: to too, but it was a dream. It was a
Speaker 1: dream look for her, right, it was a dream look
Speaker 1: for her. And I think, listen, I think my clients,
Speaker 1: you know, and my friends are you know, they're brave.
Speaker 1: I think they want to they want to be in
Speaker 1: a different aesthetic. They want to kind of be immersed
Speaker 1: in New York when they're in New York. They want to,
Speaker 1: you know, they want to kind of feel where they are.
Speaker 1: They want a sense of place. And I think that
Speaker 1: you know, she had this vision of a movie version,
Speaker 1: as we all do. With the New York apartment because
Speaker 1: all of us grew up somewhere else for the most part.
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, she she we did
Speaker 1: that and it was fun and it was great, and
Speaker 1: it's not a huge apartment, and I think that it's
Speaker 1: cozy when she's in New York and um, but she's
Speaker 1: very eclectic. So she's gonna she's gonna move on from
Speaker 1: that apartment to a country house on the water, to
Speaker 1: a farm someplace some sometimes. And I that I like
Speaker 1: about people. I like people who live in different styles
Speaker 1: well exactly. You know. What's so interesting is that someone
Speaker 1: said to me the other day, well, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: in my seventies or something and I'm getting so old.
Speaker 1: Maybe this will be my last house. And I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, people, I hope that people are brave enough
Speaker 1: to do houses into their hundreds, because look at you
Speaker 1: love doing houses and love projects. If if a project
Speaker 1: is fun, there's nothing better. I mean, you're building something,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean you always say not just for you, No,
Speaker 1: it's not just for you. And also you can't live
Speaker 1: in a painting you know, I mean to to that
Speaker 1: if you have for me, I listen. I love art.
Speaker 1: I have so many art collectors as clients I buy
Speaker 1: or I wouldn't, you know, just describe myself as a
Speaker 1: insanely serious collector. But you know, houses are wonderful. I
Speaker 1: mean they're immersive there there, you know, to to be
Speaker 1: put into an experience to look out the window that
Speaker 1: you want are looking out to see these beautiful trees
Speaker 1: with just the touch of yellow of fall coming. That's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And I think that if you love houses, and but
Speaker 1: if you listen, I think all people have the same issue. Right,
Speaker 1: If you love houses, you probably love food, You probably
Speaker 1: love other people, You probably love books. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a kind of desire to be part of the the
Speaker 1: sort of flow of energy, and you're basically cure us, right,
Speaker 1: curious people love houses? How could you not? So I
Speaker 1: think that I'm always enthusiastic about well, in the post
Speaker 1: pandemic time that we're living in now, homes, well, homes
Speaker 1: during the pandemic were became everything to us. They became
Speaker 1: our living space or working space, our nursery space, uh
Speaker 1: are our meeting place everything. And now in the post pandemic,
Speaker 1: what do you see changing? And is it changing rapidly?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, um, is it changing rapidly. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I think people, you know, I was getting a lot
Speaker 1: of calls. I've looked at my bed for six weeks
Speaker 1: and one of us has to go, right, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It was sort of that kind of situation,
Speaker 1: people calling me all the time. Um. But I think now,
Speaker 1: I think it's changing. I think I think people are
Speaker 1: kind of Look, I think that everyone thought they were
Speaker 1: going to live in the country. I think people thought
Speaker 1: they were going to leave New York. They were going
Speaker 1: to live in Some of my employees moved and hour
Speaker 1: and a half to three hours away. They found property
Speaker 1: and they thought, well, I can live here and I
Speaker 1: can work remotely. Well they can't. I think that tide
Speaker 1: is going back. I think people are going back to
Speaker 1: you know. But but I think there's still there's a hybrid. Now,
Speaker 1: I think there is. We're not going to lose that
Speaker 1: appreciation of I hope, certain quality of life issues, right.
Speaker 1: I think people started to cook together, people started to
Speaker 1: have you know, kind of their pods in a way.
Speaker 1: I think people started to kind of appreciate things in
Speaker 1: a way. And I hope we don't lose that. But
Speaker 1: you know, the very thing that's making me fight with
Speaker 1: my upholster probably is a kind of lack of of
Speaker 1: of you know, get it done at all costs, or
Speaker 1: maybe putting work before the balance of your life. And
Speaker 1: maybe that's you know, I hope that people don't lose that.
Speaker 1: And I think that there is something to be said
Speaker 1: about building that house an hour a way, but maybe
Speaker 1: use that on weekends, or maybe use it three days
Speaker 1: a week, or you know, I just I think that
Speaker 1: something has to go back. I think there was this
Speaker 1: fantasy that life was going to sort of disconnect um
Speaker 1: and I don't think that. I think that's changing. I
Speaker 1: think people are going back to loving having people over
Speaker 1: and loving traveling. I mean, I'm traveling, you're you and
Speaker 1: I are both going to India in December. Different trips,
Speaker 1: but you know, we all want to see other stuff
Speaker 1: and do other things that maybe we didn't do for
Speaker 1: a long time. So it's a happy balance, and I
Speaker 1: think that people are trying to find it, and I
Speaker 1: certainly am trying to be mindful of it as well. Well.
Speaker 1: Boundaries in the home have become kind of have changed
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. Bedrooms to become offices, um,
Speaker 1: dining rooms to become schools. Um Now that has to
Speaker 1: be sort of put back, or our dining room is
Speaker 1: important any longer. Well, I hope dining rooms are important
Speaker 1: because I think again, so what overrides the multi use
Speaker 1: aspect of rooms like a dining room is do I
Speaker 1: want to add people over all the time? You know,
Speaker 1: I have people over four nights a week. I've gone
Speaker 1: back to that and I missed it. And I love
Speaker 1: that connection, you know. I love that I spend you know,
Speaker 1: all day on things which are you know, production and
Speaker 1: completion and process, and I get to go home and
Speaker 1: talk about stuff that's interesting that you know, I can't.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about issues of the day or politics
Speaker 1: or you know, books I read during the day. So
Speaker 1: it gives me this sort of other balance to my
Speaker 1: life and so that I in my dying room. Um.
Speaker 1: But some people manage to do both, and maybe it's
Speaker 1: always awareless. And I've been promoting the idea. You know,
Speaker 1: we're sitting at a table with chairs, the dining table chairs,
Speaker 1: surrounded by your incredible cookbook collection. That's never going to change.
Speaker 1: I think library dining rooms are smart now as they
Speaker 1: were before. And if you have a wonderful chest. You
Speaker 1: can push that laptop into it when you have people over,
Speaker 1: so you know. I hope also that some of the
Speaker 1: fears that we before COVID people were so terrified of
Speaker 1: what is entertaining and how they looked and how their
Speaker 1: house was, and you know, terrified of getting to go
Speaker 1: and putting it on nice plates and all that. I
Speaker 1: hope that's gone a little bit and maybe people are
Speaker 1: a little more loose and they can get your Marley
Speaker 1: spoon and get him serve it to people. Washington with
Speaker 1: some of that award winning shard nave Yours now technology
Speaker 1: to the the the intrusion of technology into all our homes.
Speaker 1: That's the ring light for the zoom calls, the table
Speaker 1: for the computer at the right light, the right daylight
Speaker 1: coming in. I struggled with that for a while, because
Speaker 1: you want to look nice on the zoom calls. Calls
Speaker 1: I think are here to stay. Unfortunately, yeah, not not
Speaker 1: in my business, but in other people's businesses. Yes, it
Speaker 1: doesn't work in mine. No, No, you can't. You can't
Speaker 1: show fabrics because they can't show you can't talk to him.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, the biggest I mean, look at technology
Speaker 1: is here to stay. I think the problems that we
Speaker 1: you know, I think I think the problem with it
Speaker 1: is I mean, and I say technology, I don't mean
Speaker 1: that that you have you have to use it. We
Speaker 1: have to have a computer someplace. We have to have
Speaker 1: the TV with all the stream streaming stations on it.
Speaker 1: We have to have the boxes, we have to have
Speaker 1: whatever Apple smart TVs or one thing. But then there's
Speaker 1: all these other things that we want to have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and TVs have become so large. Do we have
Speaker 1: to have a room just for the television. It's probably
Speaker 1: a good idea good question. Listen, I've lost that battle
Speaker 1: long ago. I mean I think, Look, I used to
Speaker 1: be so dogmatic about this, right, I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's everything everything I can be can be.
Speaker 1: Sort of goes to this very famous Duchess of Windsor
Speaker 1: sort of quote, which is that, uh, you know, a
Speaker 1: woman said to her, I think diamonds are vulgar, and
Speaker 1: the Duchess Windsor said, I used to think so till
Speaker 1: till I had them, And so I think, listen, I
Speaker 1: hated Jacuzzi. Guess what, Now I have them. I like them.
Speaker 1: It didn't feel so old and my bones weren't as
Speaker 1: susceptible to the charm of warm water before. So I think,
Speaker 1: you know, look, I think it's here to stay in
Speaker 1: every bathtub. I don't know about every bath in my bath,
Speaker 1: of course, but I I think that the I think
Speaker 1: these things are here to stay. I think human comforts
Speaker 1: are always going to override everything else. And I think
Speaker 1: that you just have to do a great job of it, right. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, what's funny is when all of us were young,
Speaker 1: a TV was a twenty two inch television. Now it's
Speaker 1: a hundred, a hundred and twenty. It is getting bigger
Speaker 1: and bigger and bigger. I think you just have to
Speaker 1: do the best job. It's great if you have the
Speaker 1: space to have a designated room for it. Not everybody does,
Speaker 1: and it's so it can be. But they're getting thinner
Speaker 1: and thinner, you can. I really do think I've come
Speaker 1: to an epiphany where I'm not as interested in hiding
Speaker 1: them so much anymore. I think they're a part of life.
Speaker 1: I don't like hidden tell them. I think it's just
Speaker 1: so I don't even I don't even care about having
Speaker 1: a tile anymore because I used my iPad for everything,
Speaker 1: which is also stupid for your eyes, terrible, terrible for
Speaker 1: your eyes. But but I think seeing a TV, ouh,
Speaker 1: it's it's a wave of life. It's a wave life.
Speaker 1: And they're not so terrible. Listen when they were thirty
Speaker 1: two inches deep and they were crazy and they had
Speaker 1: rabbit ears or something, it's a different story. Now they're
Speaker 1: quite elegant. There was a television that was just developed
Speaker 1: and we're so excited to kind of rolled out of
Speaker 1: a box. Or don't you like that? Yes, they've stopped.
Speaker 1: They're not going to produce it. There make it. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe there's production issues, but we will get
Speaker 1: to a point. My daughter has one of those. It
Speaker 1: comes up out of a big box. But does it?
Speaker 1: Does it? Does it? But it comes up vertically like
Speaker 1: a like a pop up. No, no, there was a
Speaker 1: TV that sort of rolled up like it was like
Speaker 1: almost like a fluid piece that came up. That'll come back.
Speaker 1: You know what we are this the technology of that
Speaker 1: is not my concern. My dream is the wall, the
Speaker 1: wall that just is a TV? Well that and it
Speaker 1: will two seconds away? Oh yeah, I mean does exist
Speaker 1: those huge screen sometimes square? It exists. So when I
Speaker 1: when I finally build my final house, which I probably
Speaker 1: never will do. I just designed. I have to tell
Speaker 1: you this. I just designed, with an architect and renowned architect,
Speaker 1: a pool house or a new pool in Maine. And
Speaker 1: I showed the plans to my daughter, who's going to,
Speaker 1: of course inherit the house. And she said, mother, this
Speaker 1: is a mausoleum. Don't you dare build it? This is
Speaker 1: your mausm videam. And I felt, oh my gosh, that
Speaker 1: is a terrible, terrible thing to say, and I canceled.
Speaker 1: I canceled everything but the pool. Well, you should be braver.
Speaker 1: I think you should build things and not be listen.
Speaker 1: She gets to listen, she gets to build her own
Speaker 1: male when she comes to let her, I'm going to
Speaker 1: let her build the mausoleum. But I got scared. I
Speaker 1: got scared when she said that. No, I understand that. Listen.
Speaker 1: I think look, I think things need to be thoughtful,
Speaker 1: they thought of. But I think you should be brave.
Speaker 1: I think you know, listen, you're not listen. I've hiked
Speaker 1: with you. You're in great shape. I I you're not
Speaker 1: going anywhere. No, no, no, I don't think that. I
Speaker 1: don't think that. I just think that sometimes you sort of, uh,
Speaker 1: you have to sort of consider what do you really want?
Speaker 1: That's the hardest thing, true, but considering what you really want?
Speaker 1: Do you really want a large house on the beach
Speaker 1: or it is a little shack good enough? I think
Speaker 1: people often do that. I think I think that's a
Speaker 1: big thing. I think that people often don't think of
Speaker 1: that ramifications of things like space and but I do think. Look, technology, computers,
Speaker 1: all these things are becoming more and more, um easy
Speaker 1: to live with. They're becoming more and more what we expect.
Speaker 1: And to your point, your wall is two seconds away
Speaker 1: and it'll be fine. I mean, I designed a table
Speaker 1: I remember in nineteen I can't remember eighty or something
Speaker 1: for the New York Times, or maybe it's up sometimes
Speaker 1: during the eighties, a table that just floated on air
Speaker 1: current so you could raise it up or down if
Speaker 1: you wanted a table, a Japanese table to sit a
Speaker 1: Tommy style, or you could raise it up and chop
Speaker 1: on it. I mean, wouldn't that be a great Just
Speaker 1: make sure everyone wears underwear under their clothes. You have
Speaker 1: a Marilyn Monroe like event. Um, So what are some
Speaker 1: of the most um, I just want to get back
Speaker 1: to you. You have an amazing roster of clients. What
Speaker 1: are some of the most unique design requests that you've receive?
Speaker 1: Unique design request? I mean, look, everyone has their their
Speaker 1: sort of cork or their thing. I mean, nothing terribly exciting.
Speaker 1: You know, I've never done any dungeons or anything. Sadly,
Speaker 1: maybe those people with unlimited budgets can call me about that,
Speaker 1: but I you know, I mean I've had people who
Speaker 1: have asked me to have hospital beds for their six
Speaker 1: year old kids, and you know that are automatic and
Speaker 1: things like that. I mean things I thought were kind
Speaker 1: of insane a long time, but things like that that
Speaker 1: are crazy. I think it's more about um, things that
Speaker 1: are fitted, do you know, I mean things that are UM.
Speaker 1: I have a client now who has like one of
Speaker 1: the world's largest collection of Star Wars figurines. Um. Now,
Speaker 1: I think that's great, right, what a great thing to collect.
Speaker 1: And I think so that how did you display? Well,
Speaker 1: we're working on it right now, so we'll do a
Speaker 1: very good job of it. Was like a museum. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like their own museum to their collection, which is great.
Speaker 1: So I'm always enthusists and listen anything anything that's not
Speaker 1: boring is interesting. I mean again, it's the same thing,
Speaker 1: the curiosity, the very fact that if you're curious enough
Speaker 1: to sort of you know, look at their life and
Speaker 1: try to help them put that into into spaces essentially
Speaker 1: put you know, their their macro kind of life, intellectual life.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you give obi Wan canobia spot obi
Speaker 1: Wan will be primarily displayed. But I think that the
Speaker 1: point is, I think that what about lego freaks. Do
Speaker 1: you have a lego free don't have any lego freaks.
Speaker 1: I was a lego freak, so I completely I don't
Speaker 1: keep what you made. I never kept what I made.
Speaker 1: I never kept what I made. But I think that
Speaker 1: all of these things, I mean, look, anyone with any
Speaker 1: interest that's intriguing is great. It's really about how you
Speaker 1: organize it, right, I mean the cornerstone of all this
Speaker 1: and you this is what you do too fundamentally, people,
Speaker 1: I think we all share this thing, which is people
Speaker 1: knock things down, blocks, legos, whatever, and we put them
Speaker 1: back together. And then they knocked them down and we
Speaker 1: put them back together. And our lives are a series
Speaker 1: of that sort of you know, amplified into the world. Right.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, you know, listen, I learned so
Speaker 1: much from you. I told you we talked about this
Speaker 1: the other day. To have your book on how to
Speaker 1: Maintain a House. I've pore over it. I learned you
Speaker 1: know that these aspects which I think anything that helps
Speaker 1: people with the big issue of how you pick up
Speaker 1: your blocks met you know, sort of figuratively or literally
Speaker 1: and put them in order, relieves people's things, idea and
Speaker 1: stress about their life. And I think that's that's the
Speaker 1: greatest thing, sort of That's the thing that's fascinating is
Speaker 1: the more diversity within that process, the more interesting it
Speaker 1: is to do it over and over again. Once you
Speaker 1: create one of your fantastic homes, do your clients really
Speaker 1: live in those houses? I make sure they do. Um,
Speaker 1: there are exceptions, there are people who get away from
Speaker 1: from that. I think what happens is, I think, look,
Speaker 1: some people want to build a set for living. That's
Speaker 1: a legitimate reason. You know, it's not I think we
Speaker 1: all have right. I mean, it starts with the parlor
Speaker 1: versus the family room, the rooms you let people in.
Speaker 1: You know, there's already how doses have a sort of
Speaker 1: hierarchy and a kind of kabuki about them already what
Speaker 1: you show and what you don't show. And I think that, um,
Speaker 1: some houses, because of scale and you know kind of volume,
Speaker 1: become harder to live in. You're only so big and
Speaker 1: we're gonna take so much space. And so I think
Speaker 1: grooms don't get lived in to the to the degree
Speaker 1: that I want them to be. But I think that's
Speaker 1: a legitimate reason. People get to feel better because they have,
Speaker 1: you know, a living room and makes them feel taller,
Speaker 1: you know they do. It's like it's a legitimate human condition.
Speaker 1: So I don't hold that against people. But I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't love to do stuff that people don't get
Speaker 1: to use or it's not somehow fitted to them. Right.
Speaker 1: It's like having a rack of clothes you never wear.
Speaker 1: It's really not the idea that's fun for me. One
Speaker 1: of your most famous projects was resigning the living quarters
Speaker 1: in the White House for the Obama A small test,
Speaker 1: A small test. How long did that test actually take?
Speaker 1: You had to do it fast because they were going
Speaker 1: to move in. We had to do it fast. But
Speaker 1: start fanning before they won the election. No, I started
Speaker 1: planning after they won the election. Uh, you know, you
Speaker 1: were going to be the desire of choice. I was
Speaker 1: quite I was selected late for most people not complaining.
Speaker 1: I got called on Thanksgiving week, so it was you know, relative,
Speaker 1: you know, relatively quickly right after election day. Yeah, pretty
Speaker 1: clow up two weeks maybe, um, and then you know,
Speaker 1: it was it was sort of a relay race. So
Speaker 1: I got to finish. So I did the first part,
Speaker 1: which was the most important that we're the most important
Speaker 1: part where the children's rooms. I wrote a wonderful book
Speaker 1: which is sitting here called Designing History, which you have
Speaker 1: one of the few special edition covers with the fabric
Speaker 1: case the President Obama's curtain fabric for the Oval Office
Speaker 1: on the cover. Um. But I you know, I worked
Speaker 1: on it for a year, so it's an eight year project.
Speaker 1: But it went from doing making sure that you know
Speaker 1: this and Mrs Obama's. Um. First thing was that the
Speaker 1: girls be comfortable. I mean, they're moving from a very sweet,
Speaker 1: simple house in Chicago that was to this, you know,
Speaker 1: the center of the center of America. And they were
Speaker 1: tiny children, tiny little girls, and I think this was
Speaker 1: the number one objective, is to make them com from
Speaker 1: and then from that everything kind of emanated. And then
Speaker 1: later you know, we were doing by tradition, all the
Speaker 1: public rooms come up for sort of renovation every seven
Speaker 1: to ten years. And so I did the State Dining Room,
Speaker 1: and I did um what was called the Old Family
Speaker 1: Dining Room, and I did sort of the public rooms
Speaker 1: with a great group that Mrs Kennedy put together called
Speaker 1: the Committee for the Preservation of the White House. Is
Speaker 1: sort of a as a resource and as a partner
Speaker 1: on those. And then I got to design the dishes
Speaker 1: for the White House, the Obama dishes, and then I
Speaker 1: got to work. And they are made by picard Um
Speaker 1: in the state of Illinois, and you know, a company
Speaker 1: that's in a lot of wonderful stuff for the State
Speaker 1: Department everything they're They're a wonderful company worth supporting. How
Speaker 1: nice the quarters looked so comfortable and and yet and
Speaker 1: elegant and workable and uh and fitting the White House.
Speaker 1: It was really they weren't fancy, but they were. They
Speaker 1: were still traditional but still young. Well, you know what
Speaker 1: it took. I took a lot of thoughts, as I
Speaker 1: would for any project. Clearly this was maybe more heavy
Speaker 1: and dramatic. Everything I did, I knew was sort of history.
Speaker 1: If you move a table. It's history. You know, there's
Speaker 1: new nod acquisition. So anything that's been in the White
Speaker 1: House stays in a warehouse in Maryland somewhere, you know.
Speaker 1: It was, it was. I had a certain amount of
Speaker 1: way to it. So I sat down and thought about
Speaker 1: very seriously. I got, for example, the girls rooms. It
Speaker 1: was so important to me that they'd be comfortable. But
Speaker 1: they're very I think when people don't know about the
Speaker 1: upstairs the White House is the rooms are really tall.
Speaker 1: And I didn't even know that because I, you know,
Speaker 1: by tradition, I didn't go in until inauguration. How high
Speaker 1: are this seventeen? They're very tall, but for a little
Speaker 1: girl's room, it's a little daunte, right. So we were
Speaker 1: very careful to try to combine um elements that were
Speaker 1: sort of white housey. You know. I took Baker historic
Speaker 1: Charleston furniture and painted bright colors. I mean it would
Speaker 1: have been weird to do, you know, things that had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the White House, but these were
Speaker 1: little kids who wanted bright colors. So it was a
Speaker 1: great And they had partners of people who helped me
Speaker 1: make things like anthropology and people who made things which
Speaker 1: were affordable and kid appropriate, and you know it was.
Speaker 1: It was terrific. It was a really wonderful experience and
Speaker 1: I'm really happy. And I've been back once, um in
Speaker 1: six years, and I went, but we just recently went
Speaker 1: back because one of my last projects, which I was
Speaker 1: sort of helped them a Golden who's an amazing uh
Speaker 1: person in the arts who's the head of the Studio
Speaker 1: Museum of parliam It was her project, with a little
Speaker 1: tiny bit of help for me to organize the artists
Speaker 1: for the official portraits for both the National Park or
Speaker 1: Gallery and the White House. So there are two sets
Speaker 1: of portraits, UM. And so we went back to see
Speaker 1: those portraits unveiled, uh upstairs. I did not go upstairs.
Speaker 1: I was very happy that my dining room was intact.
Speaker 1: It was great. I mean, there were chairs that I
Speaker 1: made for the State Dining m They're old chairs that
Speaker 1: were made for Theodore Roosevelt's dining room that Mrs Kennedy
Speaker 1: had painted and gilded and made work in the short
Speaker 1: period of time. They were there were very heavy, so
Speaker 1: I made it set of chairs with help from Bill Allman,
Speaker 1: who was the curator then of duncan Fife inspired chairs
Speaker 1: that were functional that you could use around the dining
Speaker 1: table instead of these really big heavy chairs. And listen,
Speaker 1: President Trump used them for every of you know kind
Speaker 1: of interview. And that you see them being used now,
Speaker 1: I mean that you're part of that. You know, to
Speaker 1: be part of the fabric of that building is incredible.
Speaker 1: And so I was very happy that my rooms were there.
Speaker 1: I did not go upstairs. It was not asked. So
Speaker 1: after you've done all these projects for so many other people, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you and James have collected about I guess four residences
Speaker 1: of your own. Four residents. Yes, I'm trying to five.
Speaker 1: It could be five, four or five depending on the day. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: And so where are that you? I know you have
Speaker 1: a New York apartment a penthouse that is extraordinary. Thank you.
Speaker 1: And are you nor my neighbor is right still Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have street parties. Um. So yes, New York. Um,
Speaker 1: you know Los Angeles. We have a house which we
Speaker 1: love in Palm Springs, Madrid and ma YORKA. So Palm
Speaker 1: Springs is rancho a utiful place. I I love Palm
Speaker 1: Springs and we've asked you have an open invitation. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I'll call you. We have green torn green corn to
Speaker 1: Molly's in the freezer whenever you come. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just incredible. Which is your favorite house by the way
Speaker 1: of your own? Um that it's a card question. I
Speaker 1: look clearly. Palm Springs Rancho Rah is the It's the
Speaker 1: place I sleep the best. Um is that an historic
Speaker 1: house and we spilt it's kind of a historic house.
Speaker 1: It was built by a sort of famous mid century
Speaker 1: architect in ninety one, and people it's sort of has
Speaker 1: a lot of aspects of it that people kind of
Speaker 1: historically think is really interesting. Is a sort of period
Speaker 1: of kind of contemporary architecture in the desert. So it's great. Um,
Speaker 1: it just is something I think it's just sort of
Speaker 1: so magical because it's such a it's in such a
Speaker 1: quick amount of time to get there. It's so different
Speaker 1: than anything else. And so I feel really it's it's
Speaker 1: a place where I get to actually relax, which I
Speaker 1: don't get to do. And we still have a home
Speaker 1: in Spain. We do, we have a we have a
Speaker 1: we live in apartment now and we're renovating an apartment
Speaker 1: that is um kind of ridiculously large but for for
Speaker 1: our needs. But we we sort of found something we
Speaker 1: thought was wonderful. And you know, listen, I love Madrid.
Speaker 1: It was one of the great um it's one of
Speaker 1: the great loves of my life is when my partner
Speaker 1: was ambassador. I we fell in love with the country
Speaker 1: and the people and so it's it's something hopefully we'll
Speaker 1: have time at some point in our lives to use
Speaker 1: it more. But it was just you know, and that's
Speaker 1: been a really fun experience to build, because to build
Speaker 1: with all these European crafts people has been really fun.
Speaker 1: That's my real love of these houses, to do them.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not that's it's sort of relaxing, right
Speaker 1: Like it's sort of like I'm the cobbler who makes
Speaker 1: shoes as a hobby, right right. I When people ask
Speaker 1: me where do I spend most of my time, it's
Speaker 1: in my car r exactly, you know, And that's that's
Speaker 1: a terrible answer, but it's a kind of a true answer.
Speaker 1: Usb on airplanes all the time, anterplanes all the time.
Speaker 1: It's blown up since COVID it was, it was not
Speaker 1: as much. But because as we said, I can't really
Speaker 1: I can't zoom it in. Literally it doesn't work to
Speaker 1: be as hands on and as specific and as to
Speaker 1: care as much. It's hard to do remotely. Um, and
Speaker 1: I think that. Um yeah, so I mean listen, I
Speaker 1: like being on planes. I like that. I'm sure you
Speaker 1: feel the same way. You do some of your best
Speaker 1: thinking on a in a car or a plane, because
Speaker 1: you have a breath, you have and you can get
Speaker 1: to talk to people without interruption exactly, sort of solitude
Speaker 1: of that is kind of wonderful. So you've recently visited
Speaker 1: I didn't know this, but the Palace of their thought?
Speaker 1: I did. Now, what were you doing there? Measure measure? Yes,
Speaker 1: I've been there a number of times. Um, there's a
Speaker 1: new hotel that just opened on the grounds of Versailles
Speaker 1: and uh with an Alan ducast restaurant, which is great,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to stay there. Was like I had
Speaker 1: one day. You know, I always say people people always
Speaker 1: say to me, you get to go the most beautiful places,
Speaker 1: and I guess, for you know, eleven hours and I'm
Speaker 1: generally hanging a curtain or making a bed. But yes,
Speaker 1: so I got we went to I had for one
Speaker 1: night and we went James and I went and we
Speaker 1: the thing, that wonderful thing about this is you get
Speaker 1: this sort of private tour of Versailles at sunset. It
Speaker 1: so to be in the Hall of Mirrors with that
Speaker 1: beautiful light and in the you know, in the in
Speaker 1: the rooms and see it empty was kind of amazing.
Speaker 1: And then a great Atlanticast dinner after which is not
Speaker 1: never terrible. And the gardens gardens were beautiful. And the town.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever spent any time there,
Speaker 1: but the town of Versailles a beautiful town, charming town.
Speaker 1: So that was that was really wonderful, and it was
Speaker 1: sort of you know, you see all the marble work,
Speaker 1: and you know that I'm not probably going to do
Speaker 1: that for anybody, and soon I don't think to recreate
Speaker 1: for size in my future. But but it's but it's
Speaker 1: impressive to see the most propagandistic, extreme detail and kind
Speaker 1: of look at it. It was beautiful and don't you
Speaker 1: sometimes scratch your head and wonder how did they do it?
Speaker 1: It's yes, I do. I do wonder how I don't
Speaker 1: want to do it? That would be the thing. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to do it. I wouldn't want to, you know,
Speaker 1: put thirty two different marbles and hope they fit with
Speaker 1: you know, rudimentary tools and no machines, no machines, and
Speaker 1: I'm done my hands as we know machines. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's an extraordinary but it's still so beautiful. It's so
Speaker 1: great that you know everyone. I mean, the first time
Speaker 1: I went to Versailla, I was probably a teenager. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just made this huge impact on me. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's great now that it's become listen the intent of
Speaker 1: what it's used for and how it is the accessibility
Speaker 1: of it, and contemporary artist going in and doing you
Speaker 1: know pieces um within that. You know, a variety of
Speaker 1: artists have been sort of doing installations. If it's great
Speaker 1: that has a life beyond what its intent was. Do
Speaker 1: you have favorite client, favorite client? Or is that? Is
Speaker 1: that politically incorrect? No, I don't think it's politically correct.
Speaker 1: I don't actually have I really don't have a favorite client.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kind of it sounds I don't I want
Speaker 1: to say. I'm gonna sound very sort of um overly
Speaker 1: simple in a way, I guess, But I really do
Speaker 1: love all my clients. I mean, you have to love
Speaker 1: your client. You have to sort of love you know,
Speaker 1: as they say in the life to love your case,
Speaker 1: and you have to kind of love them and love
Speaker 1: their quirks. And there are two detwols and their children's
Speaker 1: toys and their dog that choose the furniture and all
Speaker 1: of that because it's sort of part of why their
Speaker 1: project is interesting and distinctive and not boring. Right, But
Speaker 1: we've been talking to one of the really amazing great
Speaker 1: decorators interior decisions. What do you'd like to be called
Speaker 1: decorator interior designs? You know what, it's as long as
Speaker 1: sack is made out to know, I know what I
Speaker 1: would say. I think that I love you know, old
Speaker 1: time sort of beginning of decorating sixties and seventies, people
Speaker 1: were called decorators. I love that because I think that
Speaker 1: it's it used to be sort of uncool, and so
Speaker 1: I always I'm always going to go for the uncool
Speaker 1: in that situation. But you know, I'll answer to anything
Speaker 1: at this point. So I'm gonna ask you just a
Speaker 1: few quick questions, quick short answers. How should one start
Speaker 1: tackling a design project? Well, I think I would make
Speaker 1: a list of all the things you want the outcome
Speaker 1: to have, right, like a list. I think I think
Speaker 1: you should. You know, it's as simple as paint. You know,
Speaker 1: a variety of samples of a color you want to
Speaker 1: use in a room and live with it. I think,
Speaker 1: don't rush, don't do it to your poolhouse idea, don't
Speaker 1: build it and then regret it. Don't um jump into
Speaker 1: something without really thinking of the ramifications, and really be
Speaker 1: true to yourself. I think, listen, I think we've come
Speaker 1: through a period of Look at when all the style
Speaker 1: books came out, you know, in the sort of you know,
Speaker 1: Santa Fe style and started with American Country. Do you
Speaker 1: know that that is the first one? Right after my
Speaker 1: book Entertaining came out. Yes, Mary Emerly wrote a book
Speaker 1: American Country that was one of the very first one.
Speaker 1: And listen, Nancy nover God was the editor, and she
Speaker 1: was a dear friend of mine. Still and listen, all
Speaker 1: those things that I made think made people terrified, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think they made you terrify that you
Speaker 1: had to conform to a specific stylistic idea. And I
Speaker 1: think I think we're hopefully beyond that. But be personal,
Speaker 1: you know, try to think what works for you and
Speaker 1: it is and is appropriate for you. I So I
Speaker 1: think that's the first list, right, you know, try to
Speaker 1: be as true about what you need and what you want.
Speaker 1: And listen, if you love you know, if there are
Speaker 1: couples who you know, husbands who love a feminine bedroom,
Speaker 1: who find it kind of soothing, and I mean, just
Speaker 1: sort of lay out your plan, make a plan, and
Speaker 1: then I think, really try to apply, you know, go
Speaker 1: for the best quality that you can because it's gonna last,
Speaker 1: things like upholstery and things like that. And you know,
Speaker 1: but look, there's so much good stuff at the low
Speaker 1: you know, kind of an approachable end even and look
Speaker 1: at you've done so much wonderful stuff Martha that people
Speaker 1: can buy that's not terribly expensive. It is beautiful design.
Speaker 1: I love going into houses and seeing something that of
Speaker 1: my burnt hard furniture, which was so beautiful. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: no it was. You know, listen, you don't want to
Speaker 1: start me on on the metal bed. And I mean
Speaker 1: I still think about all the time. But even I
Speaker 1: saw you just did some outdoor furniture that looks wonderful. Um,
Speaker 1: I still have you know, I just see your I'm
Speaker 1: testing I'm testing our outdoor furniture. It's made out of
Speaker 1: recycled plastic exactly. I would never think that I would
Speaker 1: use plastic furniture outdoors, but I'm I'm testing it over
Speaker 1: the winter. It looks amazing. A couple of little details
Speaker 1: pictures that looks great. So there's so we live in
Speaker 1: an air where there's more accessibility, right, and I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, I think so so the overall writing thing,
Speaker 1: because that's maybe too too much to absorb. But I think,
Speaker 1: look at how you want rooms to function. Again, A library,
Speaker 1: dining room is great, you know, you know, or put it,
Speaker 1: put a table around, table that can expand or not
Speaker 1: in the corner of your living if you want your
Speaker 1: dying of to be something else. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: houses now are about being personal, and I think we
Speaker 1: all love going to somebody's house where it really is
Speaker 1: a portrait of the person who lives there. That's the
Speaker 1: most important thing. And then the other stuff just go slowly. Again,
Speaker 1: if you don't have somebody terrific that you trust to
Speaker 1: help you paint samples on the wall, do one piece
Speaker 1: of furniture, right and try and go to go to
Speaker 1: a local upholster refine furniture that you know we're all
Speaker 1: buying sort of used upholstery and recovering because we can't
Speaker 1: get stuff. I mean we're using you know, we're all
Speaker 1: using local upholsters to do that and slipcover stuff. Um.
Speaker 1: And again, you know, if you're in doubt, get something
Speaker 1: simple and plain, a nice plain carpet. Again, with people
Speaker 1: like Lulu and Georgia and CB two and all these
Speaker 1: companies that you that we have access to that are online,
Speaker 1: you can get really wonderful stuff um that you know,
Speaker 1: we'll hold you over until you find that perfect rug.
Speaker 1: Just the most common decorating mistake. Most common decorating mistake
Speaker 1: I think, Um, I think not um designing rooms for
Speaker 1: the funk when they're going to have right. I think
Speaker 1: I think having you know, kind of after the fact,
Speaker 1: discovering that you know what you really need to play
Speaker 1: more than a dining room. You need to you know,
Speaker 1: it's sort of like it just doesn't your house is
Speaker 1: out of sync with who you are. And I think
Speaker 1: also I also think young people feel the young people
Speaker 1: young people now have this idea that everything's forever. There's
Speaker 1: a kind of all my clients who are young or
Speaker 1: like it's our forever house. It's like it's not, it's not,
Speaker 1: it's not there's nothings forever. And I think that, But
Speaker 1: I think that what people do is I think that
Speaker 1: they designed for the way they think they're going to live,
Speaker 1: and they don't do the time or have somebody helped
Speaker 1: them to break down really how they live and get
Speaker 1: the best version of it. Right, how many elegant you know,
Speaker 1: kind of rooms that multiple function have you been in
Speaker 1: that are terrific? Right, it's the best? So not long ago,
Speaker 1: because I live alone now, I'm a divorcee. I live
Speaker 1: alone a long time ago, but not long ago. While
Speaker 1: shooting a gardening show for Roke, I told my production
Speaker 1: for that anybody purchasing a new home should plant trees first,
Speaker 1: love for you by any furniture that And I did
Speaker 1: that when I bought my house at East Hampton many
Speaker 1: years ago. And and I remember having my first party
Speaker 1: in an empty house, empty and we said tables up outdoors.
Speaker 1: It was a summertime party, so it was okay. But
Speaker 1: people would come through. I remember Princess Radzwell coming through,
Speaker 1: Lee Radswell coming for Martha. Where's the furniture? And uh,
Speaker 1: and I just laughed it off because nobody in the
Speaker 1: Hamptons would ever have a party with an unfinished house.
Speaker 1: But I that's the way I decorate. I think my
Speaker 1: time and tried it. But figure it out important. But
Speaker 1: do you think that's a bad idea for you young people? No,
Speaker 1: I just think that it's not everyone's first things trees.
Speaker 1: But in the case, but I still regret it. I
Speaker 1: regret on this farm. I'll take you around after Michael
Speaker 1: has never been to my farms. I mean take around.
Speaker 1: But the first thing, but those trees that I planted first,
Speaker 1: I just wish I had planted a hundred times more
Speaker 1: because in it's such a short time, they take over
Speaker 1: and make a place. No, listen, that's a big thing.
Speaker 1: Everyone has their first thing, as I told you, Like
Speaker 1: when we started with the White House, Mrs Obama's first
Speaker 1: note was I want my children's rooms to be friendly.
Speaker 1: It was literally the first. She wasn't thinking about herself, no,
Speaker 1: it was it was it was I want my children's
Speaker 1: terms to be friendly with pops of color. That was
Speaker 1: the first note I ever got from her. So those
Speaker 1: crazy in the White House, right, Yeah, but those were
Speaker 1: her trees. That's what she cared about. So fine for
Speaker 1: the president who was working so hard, wouldn't she say
Speaker 1: about him. Well, he could communicate independence. We talked about
Speaker 1: he could commune. He wanted a comfortable place to you know,
Speaker 1: to work and good reading light and a place to
Speaker 1: watch basketball games on the fourteen minutes. You know, probably
Speaker 1: you could ever do. Yeah. Now, as a designer, when
Speaker 1: when somebody buys a house, they've already in used in
Speaker 1: the house, it's empty, they've hired you. What, what's the
Speaker 1: first thing you have to do? Well, I mean you
Speaker 1: have to mess the first furniture, the first piece of furniture.
Speaker 1: A bed is good, A bed is good. I also
Speaker 1: have a weird listen, this is a whole other podcast
Speaker 1: about my sense of ceremonial, like my shamanism about certain
Speaker 1: piece of verture, right, like, I don't think you should ever.
Speaker 1: The first thing I want to change in the White
Speaker 1: House was the bed because I think that no, no, no,
Speaker 1: Lincoln bed. It was there, but to change and we
Speaker 1: actually put his I've never I slept in the Queen's bedroom.
Speaker 1: Not that I slept on the whitest ones, but in
Speaker 1: the Queen's bedroom. I thought I was a little scared
Speaker 1: to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom. I thought it was
Speaker 1: sort of like, you know, there's other stuff. Other people
Speaker 1: died in that bed, you know stuff. But I but
Speaker 1: my thing is, I think beds are very ceremonial. I
Speaker 1: think people don't give themselves. I think they put they
Speaker 1: put energy and effort into other things. But I think
Speaker 1: if you sleep, even a beautiful bed, I think it's
Speaker 1: just it has a sort of symbolism but also a
Speaker 1: real reality. I think you sort of feel right, there's
Speaker 1: a kind of You've noticed that old that royalty, it
Speaker 1: was always about the state bed. I think there's something
Speaker 1: to be said about your bed being important to you.
Speaker 1: And how Wilkie, it's the third of your life is there?
Speaker 1: Do you sleep in a double a king queen? I
Speaker 1: sleep in a king and a king size bed. I'm
Speaker 1: very happy about it. I now when we go to bed,
Speaker 1: it's it's like a science project. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like I drow. I mean it's the end is
Speaker 1: near right, eye drops and blackout, mass and knees a while.
Speaker 1: It's you don't even want to know. It's horrific. It's
Speaker 1: a horrific situation. But it's important. It's all important. And
Speaker 1: I think, look, I think you spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time in bed, and I think beds. Listen, you did
Speaker 1: more to promote beautiful beds and beautiful linens and beautiful
Speaker 1: towels and all that. I think, listen, that is super important.
Speaker 1: You've had a career that's spent only three decades, but
Speaker 1: that in that three in that thirty years, trends come
Speaker 1: and go. Which trend are you so happy that is gone? Well?
Speaker 1: I think I've talked about it before, this sort of
Speaker 1: dogmatic thematic house. Right, So it's like I must have
Speaker 1: mid century house, and I must have all mid century furniture,
Speaker 1: and I must have mid century you know, uh dishes,
Speaker 1: and I must have you know whatever, bakelite whatever. The
Speaker 1: purity of design that was sort of restrictive, and you
Speaker 1: know that that you know, if if I don't hear
Speaker 1: something I used to hear all the time, it doesn't
Speaker 1: go right, which is like that used to make my
Speaker 1: head explode. But I think that I think people are
Speaker 1: more flexible about design. That's that's blended, that's personal, that's
Speaker 1: a mixture. I think also, you know, I think that
Speaker 1: that was a very terrifying period. And I think that
Speaker 1: we go through these periods. I think they come and go,
Speaker 1: and I think that period of sort of dismissive. I mean,
Speaker 1: you see it one of the few barriers. You still
Speaker 1: see it as people who are dismissive of other people's
Speaker 1: art taste, right, as if contemporary is the only true art,
Speaker 1: or modern architecture is the only true architecture. And I
Speaker 1: think it's really limiting, it's boring, and I think that
Speaker 1: those kinds of trends, I am happy not to see
Speaker 1: a Santa Fe so much interior. I have to say,
Speaker 1: I don't need to see a blue dog or you know,
Speaker 1: tazuki basket for a while. When you look at designing history,
Speaker 1: the extraordinary art and style of the Obama White House,
Speaker 1: or another one of Michael's books called Michael Smith's The
Speaker 1: um Curated House, you will see that he is not
Speaker 1: um talking about the mid century modern interior. He is
Speaker 1: talking about tradition with so many beautiful elements. Thank you, beautiful,
Speaker 1: beautiful rooms, thoughtful rooms that are for today's living. Thank
Speaker 1: you very much, Michael Smith. Michael Smith's can be found
Speaker 1: at Michael Smith Inc. Dot com, and you can also
Speaker 1: be found on Instagram at Michael Smith Inc. Yes my
Speaker 1: own crazy answer, I n C not I n K.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much Michael, it's always a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I love talking on