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Speaker 1: Welcome to Hod of Money. I'm Joel I Matt and

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Speaker 1: today we're talking about why financial pessimism will eat you alive.

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Speaker 2: So we've talked about fear factor in some of those

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Speaker 2: different shows here on the podcast before. Joel, have you

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Speaker 2: ever eaten anything alive? I guess like the quintessential example

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking of is like swallowing a goldfish at some

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Speaker 2: trashy bar that's never did it that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Or maybe I'm thinking of like the worm in the

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Speaker 2: bottom of a like tequila shot or something like that.

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Speaker 1: No, never done any of that stuff. Can't say that

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Speaker 1: I have. Maybe I haven't lived in adventurous life. Maybe

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Speaker 1: that's what that I think that there's a lot more

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Speaker 1: to an adventurous life than eating things or swallowing things

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Speaker 1: that are still alive. But we are going to talk

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Speaker 1: about financial pessimism. Why we think that more folks need

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Speaker 1: a little injection of financial optimism sort of like a

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Speaker 1: like a quarter zone shot to get you through the game.

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Speaker 1: And it really does, like its shockingly makes a massive difference.

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Speaker 1: And I think you know, what we want to talk

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Speaker 1: about is an overwhelming tide of pessimism that it feels

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Speaker 1: like our country has experienced is continuing to experience and

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Speaker 1: kind of push back on that because it's going to

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Speaker 1: make a difference not just to like in how you

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Speaker 1: feel and how you move through life, but it's gonna

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Speaker 1: make a difference when it comes to your money too.

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Speaker 2: It's going to impact your wallet as well. Yeah, real quick,

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Speaker 2: before we move on to the show, before we get

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Speaker 2: to the beer that we're gonna enjoy. During this episode,

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Speaker 2: we were just talking and I don't know how we

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Speaker 2: stumbled upon this, but this is the kind of thing

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Speaker 2: we do. We're talking about different financial products and whatnot,

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Speaker 2: but we got to thinking about Venmo cash app, the

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Speaker 2: different financial apps on your phone, and we're like, wait

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Speaker 2: a minute, are those apps FDIC ensured Because more and

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Speaker 2: more folks they're using those accounts as if they were

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Speaker 2: checking accounts. And we quickly looked it up and guess

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Speaker 2: what they are not FDIC and sure, so just a

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Speaker 2: quick tip, do not store excess money within those apps.

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Speaker 2: Preferably immediately deposit that money into your account, work with

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Speaker 2: withdrawal it initiate that withdrawal from the account. That way,

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Speaker 2: you don't have that money just sitting there.

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Speaker 1: I don't think Venmo has the ability lets you have

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Speaker 1: the ability to move funds right when you get them

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Speaker 1: without manually doing it. Whereas cash app, I have like

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Speaker 1: a little toggle in the back really and I can

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Speaker 1: literally is there an automatic sweep there's an automatic sweep shop.

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Speaker 2: I know that.

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Speaker 1: So I have used that just to prevent any money

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Speaker 1: from sitting there in the cash.

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Speaker 2: Well, you want to get that money out. You want

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Speaker 2: to get that money into your highield savings accountry. You're

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Speaker 2: earning that real interest that's right, which we can say

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Speaker 2: these days because than are paying a real interest interest rate.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's why your money is protected too, because

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Speaker 1: it's just not protected in these accounts. One from scammers.

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Speaker 1: There's I get all sorts of random requests, like once

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Speaker 1: a month, it seems like somebody's straightened.

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Speaker 2: Out the grocery store. Send one hundred bucks.

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Speaker 1: Jimmy two shoes. This request in like five hundred dollars.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what is who is this person? And that

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff happens all the time.

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Speaker 2: You don't want to just out of the goodness of

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Speaker 2: your heart donate to I think about it some on

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Speaker 2: Jimmy two shoes, and I think I like to give

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Speaker 2: in different ways. But and maybe Jimmy two shoes needs

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Speaker 2: another pair. I don't know, but like, this is the

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Speaker 2: kind of thing tomorrow he'll be Jimmy three shoes. This

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Speaker 2: is the kind of thing most people don't think about, though,

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Speaker 2: is like is my money in these apps safe?

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Speaker 1: And the truth is that, yeah, we've never talked about

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Speaker 1: that on the show before then, and cash app have

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Speaker 1: not been great when somebody does get scammed about helping

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Speaker 1: them get their money back. And at the same time,

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Speaker 1: since the money is an FDIC insured and it's not

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Speaker 1: earning anything, if.

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Speaker 2: They were to go under, yeah, you out that money.

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Speaker 1: Use those apps to facilitate transactions, to facilitate paying a

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Speaker 1: friend or family member for something, but don't use it

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Speaker 1: as a place to store money. Make sure you're moving

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Speaker 1: the money out in that you're not keeping a balance basically.

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Speaker 2: I will say though that if there are any if

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Speaker 2: you have a check card, basically if you have an

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Speaker 2: account that's associated with either Venmo or cash Up, so

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Speaker 2: like cash Up, they have like the cash card and

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Speaker 2: that is an FDIC insured bank has partnered with cash App,

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Speaker 2: And so you might be thinking, oh no, no, no, I

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Speaker 2: definitely have seen FDIC insured before well, that's money that

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Speaker 2: is specifically insured via that bank. But for I think

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Speaker 2: the vast majority of folks out there who are just

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Speaker 2: using the app, they haven't gone down the rabbit trail

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Speaker 2: of expanding the cash app offerings or the venmo offerings,

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Speaker 2: then your money is not FDIC insured. Yeah, yeah, just

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Speaker 2: keep keep that in mind. Word of the wise, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: for sure.

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Speaker 1: All right, Let's let's mention the beer we're having on

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Speaker 1: this episode. This is called Stress Dissolver. Let's hope it

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Speaker 1: works its magic by Common Space Brewing. I feel better already, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: feel so relaxed. And this friend of the show five

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Speaker 1: am Joel. He donated these beers. This is a Californian

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Speaker 1: brewery to us, so big thanks to our buddy kind.

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Speaker 2: Of Hawthorne, California.

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Speaker 1: So BlackBerry sour beer. So I think he picked up

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Speaker 1: a Trader Joe's out there.

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Speaker 2: What may go good beer Joe's forget that? Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: remember buying Scotch at a Trader Joe's when Kate and

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Speaker 2: I last time her and I went out to Yosemite.

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Speaker 2: We landed. I forget exactly what city we were in,

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Speaker 2: but walked in there I saw some off label Scotch,

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Speaker 2: and I thought to myself, that's something I want to

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Speaker 2: enjoy at the end of a long day hiking. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but uh yeah, very cool. Thank you Joel for donating

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Speaker 2: this one to the show.

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Speaker 1: And we can't get liquor in grocery stores here in Georgia,

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Speaker 1: but they do it in California. It's legal there. So

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Speaker 1: but Matt, let's get onto the subject of let's talk

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Speaker 1: about financial pessimism and how can mess people up. And

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Speaker 1: for some reason this topic made me think of ice baths.

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Speaker 1: They're so hot right now. Oh yeah, not really hot,

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Speaker 1: but they're you know, people like them.

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Speaker 2: Dad humor.

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Speaker 1: But I've never done one. Idiots speaking of like things

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Speaker 1: we haven't done. Haven't eaten the live animal, and I

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Speaker 1: haven't taken done one of these ice baths.

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of scared.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there are lots of folks purposely jumping

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Speaker 1: in freezing pools of water every day. There's some guy

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Speaker 1: or Jim, didn't you say he's spending twenty dollars, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he played on.

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Speaker 2: Ice twenty dollars. He does well, he does two ice

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Speaker 2: baths every day, evidently, so and you know there's supposed

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Speaker 2: to be beneficial reasons to doing it, Like it's supposed

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Speaker 2: to help with inflammation, with muscle recovery. Sure, if you're

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Speaker 2: really a fitness fanatic, if you want to really get

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Speaker 2: nerdy about it, it activates brown fats. I've learned this

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Speaker 2: listening to I don't even know what that is Huberman Lab.

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Speaker 2: It's like the good, good kind of fat.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it activates it at least a better higher metabolic health. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've heard it elevates your mood stuff like that, which

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Speaker 1: which is cool. Twenty bucks a day on ice sounds extreme.

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Speaker 1: That's insane, and I think a lot interestingly enough, I

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Speaker 1: don't know about our listeners, but if someone threw me

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Speaker 1: in a freezing cold pool of water, I'd be pissed, Like,

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Speaker 1: I would not be happy.

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Speaker 2: I'd be like, what do you do? Like?

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Speaker 1: But some people choose to do this very thing on purpose,

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Speaker 1: and I think so much of why has to do

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Speaker 1: with the person's outlook, right, Because like you said, the

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Speaker 1: ice bath is really is largely done for health benefits.

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Speaker 1: And but most of us, including myself, prefer warm showers

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Speaker 1: hot showers, sir, because we're not necessarily thinking about the

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Speaker 1: health benefits. We're thinking about how we can be most comfortable,

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Speaker 1: and so I think a simple shift of perspective can

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Speaker 1: drastically change how it is that we view an activity

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Speaker 1: and whether or not we want to participate or not.

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Speaker 1: And similarly, when you approach the world from a pessimistic

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Speaker 1: point of view, it has a negative impact on how

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Speaker 1: we do so many things, including how we.

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Speaker 2: Handle our money. That's true. Yeah, So actually just last night, dude,

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Speaker 2: I hopped in the shower, and I assumed that one

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Speaker 2: of my girls was getting out of her shower at

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Speaker 2: right about the same time. But no, she kept that

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Speaker 2: hot water running the entire time. She took like a

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five minute shower. Meaning they're not even teenagers yet,

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Speaker 2: but oh my gosh, they're already there. Might have to

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Speaker 2: install a second water here a lot of time. I've

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Speaker 2: got four teenagers all showering. But what this means, though,

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Speaker 2: is I got to rinse off in some frigid water. Understandably,

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Speaker 2: I was annoyed, but if I had had a different perspective,

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Speaker 2: I could have even embraced the cold. It would have

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Speaker 2: been something I was looking forward to. It's like, I'm

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Speaker 2: not even paying twenty dollars in it would have to take

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Speaker 2: this cold shower, right. I simply needed a different point

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Speaker 2: of view, and instead of looking at history and taking

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Speaker 2: an encouraging note of optimism from our past, it seems

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Speaker 2: that a like a malaise of pessimism is just keeping

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Speaker 2: folks from taking the most basic money moves that could

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Speaker 2: benefit their future. And you know, it's not that they

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Speaker 2: don't know what it is that they should be doing

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Speaker 2: right like, it is not necessarily a math problem. Instead,

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Speaker 2: it's an outlook problem. Too much pessimism is going to

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Speaker 2: throw sand into the gears. It's going to inhibit your

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Speaker 2: financial progress. And so if you feel like defeat is eminent,

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Speaker 2: if you don't believe that you can make progress, well

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Speaker 2: you're gonna be bound to lose. And hopefully this episode

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Speaker 2: can change your perspective. Yeah, it's you gotta have that

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Speaker 2: kind of small but mighty perspective. And it's just so

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Speaker 2: easy to get lost in a cycle of pessimism. I think,

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Speaker 2: especially today and as a nation, like you said, we're

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Speaker 2: in this malaise of pessimism. I like the way you

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Speaker 2: put it. It seems like we're more pessimistic now than

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Speaker 2: ever before. And I think stats actually bear that out.

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Speaker 2: New statistics revealed that a record sixty nine percent of

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Speaker 2: Americans hold negative views about the current and future state

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Speaker 2: of the economy. So they say, hey, you know what,

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Speaker 2: it sucks now, it's gonna suck for forever. Like that

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Speaker 2: is basically what people are saying. And that's seven out

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Speaker 2: of ten people who basically have that take. And let's

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Speaker 2: be honest, I mean, bad stuff happens with astonishing regularity.

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Speaker 2: So we're not here to be ahead in the sand

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Speaker 2: sort of believe everything's going to be great. The truth is,

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Speaker 2: if you want to bathe in the sadness, it's never

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Speaker 2: been easier because the twenty four seven news cycle just

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Speaker 2: gives us something to be upset about no matter what.

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Speaker 2: And it makes me think of the recent Wall Street

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Speaker 2: Journal pole matt which found that only twenty one percent

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Speaker 2: of Americans think that their kids are going to be

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Speaker 2: better off than they are. And again, that's more pessimism.

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Speaker 2: That's eight out of ten people saying, my kids don't

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Speaker 2: have a shot at a better life.

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Speaker 1: Than I've got. Yet, we're living in the greatest age

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Speaker 1: of abundance the world has ever known. The progress we've

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Speaker 1: made in the past two hundred years and twenty years

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Speaker 1: specifically is astounding. Yet we managed to tell ourselves this story,

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Speaker 1: this doom and gloom sort of despair story, with those

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Speaker 1: clear signs of progress all around us. It makes me think,

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Speaker 1: and I know I probably shouldn't reference him because he

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Speaker 1: kind of got canceled or whatever, but Louis c K.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember his airplane bit. I think he told

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Speaker 1: it on like a late night show or something, and

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Speaker 1: it was just the best thing ever where.

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Speaker 2: Because we're complaining about Wi Fi, why find out working?

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Speaker 1: And this is like ten years ago, when that was

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Speaker 1: still like a novel concept that you have that you

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Speaker 1: could actually get Internet on an airplane, And he's like,

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Speaker 1: we're in a metal tube hurtling through the sky, like

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Speaker 1: it's kind of incredible. And so it's amazing. You can

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Speaker 1: either be the person on the airplane being like, what

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Speaker 1: isn't the WiFi work? This sucks? Or you can be like,

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Speaker 1: I'm in a modern marbl It's amazing how safe airplanes are,

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Speaker 1: how they fly me at five hundred hurtled me through

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Speaker 1: the air at five hundred miles an hour to my destination,

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Speaker 1: and I can go places I never could have gone

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Speaker 1: before for cheaper than ever before. So much of how

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Speaker 1: you view that that trip, that experience depends on your outlook.

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Speaker 2: Is that how fast airplanes go? By the way five unders?

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Speaker 2: I think they're like four to fifty And so as

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Speaker 2: you said that, I was like, I have no idea

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Speaker 2: how fast airplanes got. It's like four hundred and five

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Speaker 2: hundred miles an hour? What's mock like? Mock one? What

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Speaker 2: is is that a thousand? I don't know. For two thousands,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure. Okay, but okay, so you mentioned that,

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Speaker 2: say a thousand, You're right, I think it's a thousand. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I said two thousand because I'm thinking of two thousand

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Speaker 2: pounds within a ton.

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Speaker 1: Well, what did you reach in the latest topic on

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Speaker 1: nine or something? Then he passes out. Yeah, I don't know, but.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to mention you brought up that Wall Street

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Speaker 2: Journal poll, But there are some other elements in that

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Speaker 2: poll that reveal that basically that we value money more

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Speaker 2: highly than other values that were more traditionally held in

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Speaker 2: high esteem, talking about values like our country, our family, community, children,

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Speaker 2: or religion as well. But not only are our priorities

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Speaker 2: out of whack, but honestly, we think that pessimism it's

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Speaker 2: it's partly driving it, but it's also being exacerbated by

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Speaker 2: that same set of beliefs. It's almost as if our

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Speaker 2: society wide pessimism is swirling out of control and then

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Speaker 2: it's creating more of the same. It's it's a doom,

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Speaker 2: it's reinforcing itself. It's like a turbo chargedness of pessimism.

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Speaker 2: So it kind of makes me think, like what came first,

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Speaker 2: the chicken or the egg, right, because you could make

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Speaker 2: a pretty good argument that even the deprioritization of values

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Speaker 2: like your family or community and religion, that these are

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Speaker 2: actually the sources perhaps of the heightened levels of pessimism

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Speaker 2: that we've seen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes me think of our recent conversation with

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Speaker 1: Seamost doles Off and how he talked about that's why

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Speaker 1: we put so much value in our careers. Now we've

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Speaker 1: lost basically a sense of value and meaning in some

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Speaker 1: of these other places where we traditionally derive them. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: So the career is the end all, be all, and

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Speaker 1: so not only is it bringing home the bacon, but

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Speaker 1: it also informs our self worth, and that is not

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Speaker 1: a healthy place to be in when most of your

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Speaker 1: feelings of self worth come from your job, and then

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Speaker 1: when you skip out on community and family, it's no

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Speaker 1: surprise that you end up with higher levels of loneliness too,

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Speaker 1: because back in twenty eighteen, twenty two percent of all

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Speaker 1: adults said that they always or often feel lonely or isolated.

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Speaker 1: That was before COVID, that was in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: Crazy.

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Speaker 1: So my guess is those numbers have gotten worse, maybe doubled.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: This is just a guess, but a lack of social

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Speaker 1: cohesion is directly responsible for some of the downer vibes

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Speaker 1: that we might be feeling. And funnily enough, new stats

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Speaker 1: have just come out about the Americans who consider themselves

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Speaker 1: among the happiest. They literally, in response to survey, not

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Speaker 1: only do they check the happy checkbox, they say no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I am very happy. And it turns out to this

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Speaker 1: it has dropped, but there still is a certain there's

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Speaker 1: this contingent of folks, and there have been articles written

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Speaker 1: about like what can we learn from these people who

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Speaker 1: are very happy?

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Speaker 2: Well, a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of them say that a strong marriage, being religious, a

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Speaker 1: solid fitness regimen are the main reasons why. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of these folks were actually older adults interestingly enough,

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Speaker 1: But that was just kind of fascinating to me, like

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Speaker 1: that these things that were getting away from as a

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Speaker 1: culture that have traditionally brought happiness and have made us

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Speaker 1: look on the bright side, I think a little more

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Speaker 1: frequently the happiest people still retain belief and attachment to

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Speaker 1: those things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So I think those are a number of

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Speaker 2: the factors that have led to this overall pessimism, and

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Speaker 2: I think media and honestly technology are partly to blame

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Speaker 2: as well. And unfortunately news outlets, they've been incentivized to

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Speaker 2: cover the stories that guess what, it's the stories that

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Speaker 2: get us fired up, that make us mad. Well, that's

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Speaker 2: what social media amplifies too. Yeah, yeah, to write the

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Speaker 2: headlines that are going to generate the most clicks. There's

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Speaker 2: a reason you never see the headline like local family

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Speaker 2: enjoys a nice dinner together an outdoor play session afterwards,

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Speaker 2: Like that is not No one cares about that wompomp

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Speaker 2: zero clicks. That is not going to go viral, and

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Speaker 2: instead it's the polarizing tweets when it comes to traditional media.

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Speaker 2: But like you said, social media as well, right, and honestly,

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Speaker 2: aside from the most divisive content that we can find

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Speaker 2: on social media. It's I think the slow drip that

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Speaker 2: we are exposing ourselves to of just like the images

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Speaker 2: the video that is undoubtedly leading to dissatisfaction in our

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Speaker 2: own lives. Data from the CDC, they show that the

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Speaker 2: number of teenagers over the last decade with clinical levels

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Speaker 2: of depression has doubled. And there's research from doctor Jane

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Speaker 2: I think it's Twinkie. We actually mentioned one of her

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Speaker 2: articles a few weeks ago on a Friday flight. She

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Speaker 2: was she dug into the data on millennials and how

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Speaker 2: well they're actually doing compared to just the stereotype of

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Speaker 2: what millennials are often.

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Speaker 1: A pessimistic stereotype, the like that they when the data

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Speaker 1: shows more optimistic like results in reality. Yeah yeah, but

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Speaker 1: she's done a lot of research on different generations, but

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Speaker 1: she highlights that one of the ways that this depression

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Speaker 1: has manifested itself is the pessimism, and this is especially

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Speaker 1: evident among gen z. She noted that that's one of

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Speaker 1: the it's one of the biggest shifts. It's one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest differences that she found when she dug through

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Speaker 1: lots and lots of research between millennials and gen z

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Speaker 1: is the outlook on life, and the reality is that

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Speaker 1: everything that we're experiencing, the more pessimism that we're feeling,

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Speaker 1: it infiltrates every area of our lives and it really

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Speaker 1: does impact our finances. And so that's what we really

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Speaker 1: want to get into. That's the heart of the show

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Speaker 1: for today. I think we just really wanted to set

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Speaker 1: it up really well because there is It's not that

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Speaker 1: we're not finding some straw man a pessimism range supreme

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Speaker 1: in our culture.

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Speaker 2: It truly is a real problem. But we're also not

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Speaker 2: going to leave you in the lurch. Right. I feel

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Speaker 2: like we've taken people on this journey and we're like

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Speaker 2: at the bottom of the right, and we're not going

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Speaker 2: to like open the door and kick you out and

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Speaker 2: make you walk to the top. Right, We're gonna help

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Speaker 2: you to get to the top.

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Speaker 1: But it really is gonna is gonna mess with your

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Speaker 1: money if you retain too much pessimism. How it does

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Speaker 1: ruin or how it can lead to ruin for your finances.

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Speaker 1: We'll discuss more on that right after this.

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Speaker 2: All right, we are back. We're talking about how financial

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Speaker 2: pessimism will wreck you. And all that being said, we

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Speaker 2: just kind of talked through all the different ways that

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Speaker 2: we are not fans of pessimism.

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Speaker 1: Check your pessimist itself before you wreck your pessimistic self.

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Speaker 1: But that being said, some pessimism is actually necessary. So

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Speaker 1: we're gonna make a case for moderate doses of pessimism.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to overdo it because it can lead

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Speaker 1: to lots of down slides like we just talked about.

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Speaker 1: But one of my favorite money quotes comes from friend

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Speaker 1: of the show, Morgan Housel, and he says, to save

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Speaker 1: like a pessimist, but invest like an optimist. And the

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Speaker 1: reality is that we save money because bad things they

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Speaker 1: can and they do happen in life. This is the

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Speaker 1: reason that living paycheck to paycheck is such a precarious.

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Speaker 2: Position to find yourself in, right, Like, basically you've got

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Speaker 2: zero financial margin. Our emergency funds are necessary because they

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Speaker 2: act essentially as like these financial shock absorbers, right Like

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Speaker 2: they cushion and they smooth out the ride as we

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Speaker 2: are pursuing our financial goals. And ultimately, that small injection

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Speaker 2: of pessimism is actually going to allow us to be

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Speaker 2: optimistic over the long run because those savings are going

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Speaker 2: to ensure that we don't completely derail ourselves, that we

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Speaker 2: don't completely wreck ourselves goal ignoring reality where we to

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Speaker 2: wear rose color glasses that could lead to financial ruin,

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Speaker 2: and that's what we're trying to avoid here today. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I love that balance, right, because I think optimism is

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Speaker 1: the greater need, especially considering kind of what we're dealing

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Speaker 1: with as a culture and as Americans with just too

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Speaker 1: much pessimism. Just we're inundated with it. It's true, but

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Speaker 1: it's also important to mention that like no pessimism and

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Speaker 1: being optimistic at every turn and potentially not being realistic

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Speaker 1: in terms of potential downsize, potential emergencies that could befall you,

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Speaker 1: that would just be unwise, that would be not not

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Speaker 1: prudent when it comes to your finances. So, and theoretically,

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Speaker 1: I think you might assume that pessimists would have lots

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Speaker 1: of money sitting in cash in a savings account that

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Speaker 1: they would say, Man, I'm nervous to invest, but at

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Speaker 1: least what I'm gonna do because a rainy day thing

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Speaker 1: could happen and it could mess me up, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: make sure I have more cash in my reserves that

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Speaker 1: is what you would assume a pessimist would do, But

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Speaker 1: the reality doesn't play out this way either. Data shows

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Speaker 1: that while nearly two thirds of optimists have started an

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Speaker 1: emergency fund, less than half of pessimists have one.

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Speaker 2: That's crazy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, even though we should be saving like pessimists

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Speaker 1: because unforeseen expenses always crop up, optimistic people actually end

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Speaker 1: up saving money at a higher clip. And practically speaking, Matt,

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Speaker 1: this is why money yere Number one is to set

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Speaker 1: enough money aside for a basic emergency fund, which we

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Speaker 1: have named as just it's hard to come up with

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Speaker 1: a one size fits all figure, but we have said

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Speaker 1: twenty four hundred and sixty seven dollars is a great

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Speaker 1: initial amount for people to strive to have in that

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Speaker 1: emergency fund before they move on to any other money gear.

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Speaker 1: And then we want you to put that money aside

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Speaker 1: and don't touch it for anything other than a true emergency,

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Speaker 1: which is like an unplanned doctor's visit that's necessary. If

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Speaker 1: your AC stops working, you got to replace the compressor,

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Speaker 1: an insurance deductible that I am dealing with right now.

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Speaker 1: So these are the kind of things that that emergency

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Speaker 1: savings is really meant for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, you've had a first hand account of the need.

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Speaker 1: To use your emergencies in recently, and you know, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: and a pessimist would say, gosh, it like that, that

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Speaker 1: sucks that. I'm the optimist would say, that's what the

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Speaker 1: emergency funds are for.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad I have it. Absolutely. So that's the impact

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Speaker 2: of being optimistic that it can have on your savings.

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Speaker 2: But then that second part of Morganhusel's advice is invest

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Speaker 2: like an optimist, because let's just be honest. If it

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Speaker 2: seems like it's going to be all doom and gloom, right,

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Speaker 2: if the future does not look bright, why would you

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Speaker 2: actually invest your money?

434
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,360
Speaker 1: If AI is going to to run everything and we're

435
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 1: actually gonna like I don't know, I saw if sky.

436
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 2: Net's about to take over. Yeah, if it's going to

437
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,239
Speaker 2: the point, what was that Joaquin Phoenix movie? Was it

438
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,919
Speaker 2: her or she? Something like that? Oh, he never watched it?

439
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,479
Speaker 1: The AI Basicallyson's voice, Yes is the age. I mean,

440
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,199
Speaker 1: if that's our collective future, then we should all just

441
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: stop investing now and unplug from the matrix.

442
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,440
Speaker 2: No, it's true, like, if you truly believe that things

443
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 2: are going to be worse in the future, then you

444
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 2: really should just take your cash and don't even stick

445
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 2: it in the bank because of course those could fail

446
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 2: as well, and we actually have seen a couple of

447
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,440
Speaker 2: those fail recently. But don't put it stick your money

448
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 2: with a bank, stick it under your mattress, right like

449
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 2: barry in your backyard. Actually, money are like cash. It

450
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 2: could art it if it could degrade, and so make

451
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 2: sure go ahead and make it gold while you're at it, right,

452
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,959
Speaker 2: Because if you're too pessimistic, like you, definitely wouldn't consider

453
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 2: investing in companies who are going to take your money.

454
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,879
Speaker 2: They're going to use it to innovate. They would develop

455
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 2: new products and services, make the world a better place. No, no, no,

456
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 2: that's not going to happen. If you're taking the pessimistic

457
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 2: point of view.

458
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: We might not even be around to see it because

459
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: World War three might be around the corner. So it

460
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 1: just doesn't it doesn't make sense.

461
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,239
Speaker 2: It makes me realize just how skilled we've become at

462
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,199
Speaker 2: hedonic adaptation and the age we live in, and just

463
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 2: the technological advances that we expose ourselves to. Like literally,

464
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 2: I feel like it's on a daily basis that there's

465
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,439
Speaker 2: something in the news where sus like, oh, this was

466
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 2: able to be achieved. Yeah, oh, and we're not impressed

467
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 2: by it anymore, Like we are constantly just like okay,

468
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 2: it's just the new normal, even though it's like James

469
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 2: Webb telescope pictures. It's cool for a day or two,

470
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 2: I know, but then we quickly move on and that's

471
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,679
Speaker 2: just yesterday's news. And there's something about just the speed

472
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 2: at which technology advances today that I think has caused

473
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 2: us to be able to move on so quickly. We're

474
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 2: just no longer excited by anything that we come across.

475
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 2: Jonathan heightt he's a researcher, social researcher, social scientist, And

476
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 2: you brought something up to me, like you mentioned how

477
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 2: he was talking about how like we lack awe yes

478
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 2: in our world today, right, and he says something like

479
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 2: awe is like a reset button habit. It pulls us

480
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 2: out of ourselves. And in a way, it's almost as

481
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 2: if there's nothing that awes us anymore, Like nothing is impressive.

482
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 2: And when you're not excited, when you're not impressed by anything,

483
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 2: well why would you invest for the future Because it's

484
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 2: all just ho hum and there's nothing that is worth

485
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: kind of getting all that.

486
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: It's illustrated by the fact that we use awesome to

487
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 1: define everything, and it's like, because we don't really find

488
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 1: anything to be truly awesome anymore, and so it's awesome, dude.

489
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,160
Speaker 1: And because of that, I think that language it means

490
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: something and it shows that we've kind of lost our

491
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:27,880
Speaker 1: capacity to feel that awe.

492
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 2: And I do think this, I think that is truly

493
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 2: awe inspiring.

494
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. But when

495
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 1: you think about it logically, mad I joked about World

496
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: War three, but it's it's actually it's kind of hard

497
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: to imagine worse scenarios than what we've already lived through

498
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 1: in the world over the decades, in the centuries, Like

499
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: think back to Genghis Khan, right, Like that was a

500
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: crazy time in human history when you compare what was

501
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 1: happening then. And I'm not like some history buff that

502
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 1: knows all about it, but like it seems like it's

503
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: tumultuous time for a lot of people on the Asian continent,

504
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: and like we've had wars, pandemics, world wars, right depressions,

505
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 1: yet human progress has been unrelenting.

506
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: And when we're talking about around in metal tube. Yes,

507
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: what four hundred and fifty miles per hour.

508
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: I know you have, like the world, all the information

509
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 1: in the history of the world, almost in the palm

510
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: of your hand, in your pocket. There's just so much

511
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: that's happened, really in the past couple decades that has

512
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: changed our lives for the better, as long as we

513
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 1: can siphon off our attention long enough to not get

514
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 1: drawn into far right. And when we're talking about optimism

515
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 1: in investing, we're not talking about being naive, right investing

516
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: in the latest random crypto coin because you're hoping it's

517
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 1: going to go to the moon. That is an entirely

518
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: different thing. You, of course, want to thoroughly consider the

519
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: pros the cons of any potential investment you might make.

520
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: You need to understand that you're risking the loss of

521
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: capital when you invest money in the stock market or

522
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: in any potential investment in real estate, right, Like, there's

523
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: no guarantee that real estate markets go up, continue to

524
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: go up the same way they have been. But yeah,

525
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: you want to have optimism though that the US and

526
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: world economies are going to continue to create and solve

527
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: problems generating wealth for those companies and for the folks

528
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: like you and I who invest in them.

529
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think we need to be focusing on

530
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 2: the upside potential that is unleashed or that's unlocked by

531
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 2: our ability to invest for the future. I want to

532
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 2: share an interesting quote from chess Grand Champion Magnus Carlson.

533
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 2: This is kind of a long one, so I'll emphasize

534
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: the parts that are important, I think, but he said

535
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 2: that it's always better to be overly confident than pessimistic.

536
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 2: I realized sometimes after games that I was actually way

537
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: too confident. I was way too optimistic. But if you're

538
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 2: not optimistic, if you're not looking for your chances, well

539
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 2: you're going to miss opportunities. And you know, I think

540
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,959
Speaker 2: there are plenty of players in history who have been

541
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 2: immensely talented, but they're just too pessimistic. They see This

542
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: is the part that stood out to me. They see

543
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: too many dangers that are not there, and so they

544
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: cannot perform at a very high level. Wow, dude, this

545
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 2: is such a great quote. I think for someone specifically

546
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 2: out there who's listening and maybe they're afraid, or maybe

547
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: they're hesitant to actually invest their money and perhaps they're

548
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: just sitting on a large amount of cash. We're not

549
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: saying that bad things don't happen, because they do. But

550
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 2: if you are so preoccupied with prepping for every single

551
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: potential negative outcome where you're going to miss your chance

552
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: to seriously grow your net worth by investing your money,

553
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: makes me think. We've had questions to the show before

554
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: about folks asking about some very niche insurance products and

555
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 2: like cancer insurance is what you want, or like pet insurance.

556
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 2: And it's not that we think that you shouldn't love

557
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 2: your dog or that you shouldn't spend money on your

558
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 2: cat or something like that, but you can't ensure definitely

559
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 2: not in your journal though, or you shouldn't ensure. I

560
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: guess you can, like cause there are crazy insurance products

561
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: out there, but to a certain extent, you have to

562
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: assume some of those risks there. Truly isn't a way

563
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 2: to eliminate all risk from your life. It's just it's

564
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 2: a part of living life.

565
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so we have to be wise about which

566
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: ones we take on ourselves and which ones we do ensure.

567
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: Like my home glad I had insurance on that right

568
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: because that is one of those things where I couldn't

569
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: replace it on my own. A laptop that's a different story,

570
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: a gerbil that's a different story. And even pet insurance

571
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: like running the numbers, figuring that out is important. But

572
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: for a lot of people you can go bankrupt insuring yourself.

573
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: I think right like, there are so many insurance products

574
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: out there for every potential niche situation. You could insure

575
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: yourself to the hilt, and that would be I think

576
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: almost like the pessimistic way of going about things. The

577
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: realistic with a bent towards optimism, thing to do would

578
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: be to ensure the things that you need insured and

579
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: then self ensure the rest of the way, having that

580
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: money in the bank. But I think that's a good point.

581
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: And in addition to twenty nineteen study, Matt found that

582
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: optimists are more likely to make financial progress because they

583
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: can more easily see the upside of taking action. And

584
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: that's one of the downsides of being overly pessimistic, because

585
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: even though you might have the right information, you fail

586
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: to take action because you doubt that it's going to

587
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: make much of a difference. You understand maybe the power

588
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: of compounding, but when you're too pessimistic, you envision a

589
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: world where the most expected outcome of growth and progress

590
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 1: don't actually materialize and so you end up missing out.

591
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I almost think that in this case, this

592
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: is an instance where a lack of imagination, a lack

593
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 2: of understanding what the potentials might be down the road,

594
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 2: is going to come back to bite you in them. Yeah.

595
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: I think we need to be able to just think

596
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: more creatively and not be locked into sort of like

597
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: a scarcity mindset where it's just like whatever it is

598
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 2: that you see right now in the present time, that

599
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily mean that like that is where things end.

600
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: Like things are going to continue to expand, and there

601
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: are going to be innovations and new products and the

602
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 2: new ways of solving problems exactly like you were just underestimating,

603
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 2: like the ability of human like humanity to creatively solve

604
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 2: problems something.

605
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: I don't like global warming. There there are don't they have,

606
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: like sea slugs in certain parts of the ocean who

607
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: are sure creating some sort of oil that might potentially

608
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: replace fossil fuels at some point. I mean, it's it's

609
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: like these are the kind of things that some entrepreneurs

610
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: and brainiacts out there are testing. I don't know whether

611
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: it's going to succeed, but like there are, there's always

612
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: someone looking to make progress. And human ingenuity it doesn't

613
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: stop even in the face of tumultuous circumstances. So I

614
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: think that if you're not investing betting on human ingenuity

615
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: to just kind of like cease, I mean, you're really

616
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: doubting human history and all the progress that we've currently made.

617
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: You're saying, oh, it's probably gonna stop now just when

618
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: it's getting good, right, just when it's getting interesting, And

619
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: I doubt that's gonna be the case. So simply simply put,

620
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: this means continuing to invest no matter what the markets

621
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: are doing and no matter what the news outlets are reporting.

622
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: But again, we're not talking about unbridled, ridiculous, obscene optimism

623
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: that has no bearing in reality, right because I guess

624
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: putting all going all in on a single stock because

625
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: you're hoping that one that that one's going to take off,

626
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: that would be gambling. That'd be like risk taking to

627
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 1: the extreme. Or there's this apartment complex, Matt the owners

628
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: of it foreclosed on a thirty two hundred unit apartment

629
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: complex in Houston largely because they were not just optimistic.

630
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: They were reckless. Right, They took out a debt that

631
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: was did not have almost any locked in interest rate,

632
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: and as interest rates went up, they felt the crunch,

633
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: cash crunch. They assumed that rents would continue to go

634
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: up the way they had been going up during COVID,

635
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: which was extreme. Those have leveled out, they have moderated,

636
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: if not started to decline. And so it's not wrong

637
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: to buy real estate and plan for potential scenarios that

638
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: aren't best case. You should you should have a plan

639
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: in place, a backup plan, and that I feel like

640
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: that is a perfect example of investing in a way

641
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: that assumes everything is going to continue to go gangbusters,

642
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: and if you have a over the long term things

643
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: will we believe in the market, right, if people continue,

644
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: if HTM listeners continue to invest for the next fifteen

645
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: to twenty thirty years in the markets, you will build wealth.

646
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: But if you recklessly invest and you're not paying attention

647
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: to the terms, and you're not paying attention to kind

648
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: of the the trends and what could potentially happen even

649
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: on the scene, then you're not striking that balanced combo.

650
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: That kind of Morgan Household was preaching I think in

651
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: that quote.

652
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I mean, like earlier, not so

653
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: long ago, you mentioned just how what's needed most is

654
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: more optimism, Right, that's what you see, Like that's when

655
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 2: that's what's in the headlines is the collapse of FTX. Yeah,

656
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: this bank folds because of pyramid scheme whatever. What you

657
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: don't hear are stories about the millions of Americans who

658
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: are becoming millionaires because they're slowly investing within their four

659
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 2: to one k's day in and day out. We try

660
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: to highlight those two and had report those numbers. We

661
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 2: love that good news. Yeah, exactly, And.

662
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: There are millions of people out there who have become

663
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: millionaires the slow, boring, methodical life.

664
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. And so we want folks to be optimistic

665
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 2: in that measured just plugging away at it kind of

666
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: like that's the approach we want folks to take. And optimists, well,

667
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: they also tend to do better in their careers and

668
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: they make more money. Stats show that sales folks who

669
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: consider themselves to be optimistic they outsell their pessimistic counterparts

670
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 2: by fifth six percent. That's a pretty giant gap. Optimists

671
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 2: they also tend to make more and they get promoted

672
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: more easily. It's almost as if as if the optimism

673
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: is adding like some helpful fuel to the fire on

674
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: the workfront, because honestly, like, if you don't think that

675
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 2: your boss is going to give you a raise, and

676
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: so because of that, because you don't think it's gonna happen,

677
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 2: then you opt not to ask. Well, you're definitely not

678
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: gonna get the raise, right, Like you're just shooting herself

679
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 2: on the foot. If you don't make the sales call

680
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: because you think that the chances are kind of small

681
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: that you're gonna make the sale that they'll actually be receptive,

682
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 2: well you've sealed your fate without even giving it a go.

683
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: And so it kind of it makes sense that optimism

684
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: fuels your career. It fuels your earning potential, and we

685
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: certainly want folks to take the more optimistic path when

686
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: it comes to their work and their career.

687
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: Makes me think of how my kids ask for things

688
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: and they are unafraid to ask for basically anything. Like

689
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: my daughter, she's nine, and she's like, I want a

690
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: laptop for my birthday and I'm kind of thinking, yeah, right,

691
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: like not gonna happen. But she is, without fail continually

692
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: asking for this sink, continually plugging away for it. She's

693
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: got that joal optimism my history. She does so. Sadly

694
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: this has gotten passed down from just genes, right, she's

695
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: got it built into her genetics. But it's one of

696
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: those things where those kids they believe anything as possible,

697
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: and we need a little more of that, that playful spirit,

698
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: that optimistic belief that they haven't.

699
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: Been beaten down by this cold, hard work.

700
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: It's true, Like that's part and why I think we

701
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: get there as we have been told no, we have

702
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: been rejected, and we start to learn, we start to

703
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: think that the best course of action is to not

704
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: even believe or to not even attempt, right, And so

705
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: we're basically saying, even though you might have had those experiences,

706
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: there's room, there's reason for optimism. And it makes me

707
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: think of a phrase that we've all heard, Matt in

708
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: this economy, and it's kind of an excuse, right, because

709
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: who could make inroads in their career, their savings or

710
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: investments with this economy, In this economy when everything around

711
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: us is tumultuous, right, too much pessimism will ultimately cause

712
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: you to want to save and invest less like why

713
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: do more work for the future when you don't necessarily

714
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: believe that you can build a better one or that

715
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: your kids can have better future, and it becomes a

716
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy. You either won't reach those lofty financial

717
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: goals or it's going to take a lot longer to

718
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: get there. And so be careful if you lean too

719
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: hard in that direction, because it's going to impact your savings,

720
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: is going to impact whether or not you invest, or

721
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: how much you invest, or how you invest. It's also

722
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: going to impact your career, the chances you're willing to

723
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: take and how hard you're willing to go to achieve

724
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: something that you're really passionate about. I think if we

725
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: are too beaten down Matt byer priory experiences and the

726
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: ways which we have been let down in the past,

727
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: we are liable to lean into that pessimism really hard.

728
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: And everything around us is kind of pushing us in

729
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: that direction too. But we have to swim across the

730
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: current on this.

731
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, So we've talked through some of the

732
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 2: impacts that being optimistic and what the kind of impact

733
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: that can have on your money, on your finances, but

734
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: we're going to specifically get to some tips that we

735
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: think are going to help you to become more optimistic,

736
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: and yeah, that's going to impact not only your money,

737
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: but it's going to impact your life in a very

738
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: real way. Get to all of that right after this.

739
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: All right, man, let's keep going. We're talking about financial optimism.

740
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 2: This is just one of my favorite subjects because yes,

741
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 2: I am naturally optimistic. I was actually talking with a

742
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: friend last night and he was like, why do you

743
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: like such depressing music? And I was like, why do

744
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 2: you listen to the tunes that are just like so

745
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: freaking sad and down? And I was like, I think

746
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: it's just because I'm such a naturally optimistic you needed

747
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 2: to balance balance you at me. Is that why we're friends?

748
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: Because he needs you need a wet blanket right every

749
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: now and again. Yeah, I mean I feel like it

750
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 2: helps put me in touch. It's good to know yourself.

751
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, with something that I have a hard time getting

752
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: in touch with normally. But I do think there's a

753
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: difference between being optimistic and not being realistic. And I

754
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: think too, it's important to realize that we all were

755
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: all born with certain dispositions and you can't just flip

756
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: a switch. And yes, maybe I came out of the

757
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: womb more naturally sunny by nature. I don't know that,

758
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: or who knows nature verse nurture. Like, that's a deep

759
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: question that we can't really get into on this podcast,

760
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: and we would know how to, but that it doesn't

761
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: mean that we have no impact on our day to

762
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 1: day viewpoints or that we have no ability to change,

763
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,439
Speaker 1: even if we kind of have a natural predilection towards

764
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: certain ways of being or thinking. And research finds that

765
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: mindset is only about twenty five percent hereditary, which shows

766
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: that we all have a reasonable level of control over

767
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: our thought life. So, Matt, let's talk about how to

768
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: increase our optimism. I think that's really important because we've

769
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: seen how it can negatively impact our finances. So how

770
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: do we then infuse more optimism into our lives, enabling

771
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: it to hopefully help us make more progress in the

772
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: realm of money, but in other areas too.

773
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: It's right, Well, the first thing everyone needs to do

774
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: is take an ice bath, because that's an activate your

775
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: brown no I mean all joking aside exercise and tending

776
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: to your physical health, it has profound implications for your

777
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 2: mood for your body, and studies show that folks to

778
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 2: participate in vigorous exercise they tend to be significantly more

779
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: optimistic than folks who had lower rates of activity. So,

780
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 2: simply put, what this means is get out there and

781
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 2: lift some weights, maybe get on a rowing machine like Joel.

782
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: Simply just go for a hike with a friend and

783
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: make those things regular occurrences in your life. Find ways

784
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: to just incorporate these into the natural rhythm as opposed

785
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 2: to it being something that you're going to do. You know,

786
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 2: for three weeks at the beginning of the year, and

787
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 2: no surprise that folks who are exercising more not only

788
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: are they more optimistic, but these optimists live between eleven

789
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,240
Speaker 2: and fifteen percent longer on average. You literally live longer

790
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 2: when you are exercising more when you are more optimistic.

791
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 2: And these folks also show that they stressed about their

792
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: finances for one hundred and forty five fewer days compared

793
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 2: to their more pessimistic.

794
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: Counterparts, almost half a year. Could you imagine I stressed

795
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: about money half as much?

796
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: Imagine not thinking about money, which for a lot of

797
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,919
Speaker 2: folks is something that just really it's on their mind.

798
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: A lot. It stresses them out.

799
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: And I talked about the constant like IQ drain essentially

800
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,479
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, like twelve IQ points. So people lose

801
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: by being constantly stressed about money. And a part of

802
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: that is just a pessimist event that's taken over. Part

803
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: of it is a big literally a lack of savings.

804
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: But part of it then is the mental belief for

805
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: the mental connection they have to them money as well.

806
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, going back to the most very happy

807
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: people from the latest Wall Street Journal study that they

808
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: did in conjunction with the University of Chicago, it's folks

809
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: who are active and so get out there, stay fit.

810
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 1: Makes me think though a pessimist might say, oh, you're

811
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: going to live eleven fifteen, eleven to fifteen percent longer.

812
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: That means there's more money you got to save for retirement,

813
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: so might as the bud right now right or yeah,

814
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: but that's where pessimism can take you. And Matt, you

815
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 1: just you kind of hinted at social connections. That's another

816
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: thing you can do to increase your your optimism levels.

817
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: You said, go on a hike with a friend, And

818
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: I do think hanging out more with family, friends and

819
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: Neighbors is a pretty darn good piece of advice that

820
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: is really going to kind of us in that direction.

821
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: There's a new book called Hanging Out, and the author

822
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: makes the case for the importance of casual hangs like

823
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: I could have anecdotally written. I feel like that's a

824
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: book that I could have written right exactly exactly.

825
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, isn't it ridiculous that, Like, on one hand,

826
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: I hate that book because it seems kind of intuitive.

827
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, I need to hang

828
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 2: out with Do we need a book to do this? Yeah?

829
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 2: But that being said that it says a lot about

830
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 2: our society that we need a book like this because

831
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: we have so focused on one particular sector of our

832
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 2: lives that we need it spelled out in order to realize,

833
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 2: in order for us to lift our nose from the grindstone.

834
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 2: Like we talked about you already mentioned Simone, we talked

835
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 2: with him on Monday's episode about just creating a more

836
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 2: diversified identity and having friends. Again, seems silly that we

837
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: need to that we're saying this out loud, but that's

838
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: such an important part of living a joyful and fulfilled life.

839
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: Well, and hanging out with people is such a radical

840
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 1: proposition these days that she got interviewed on Ezra Klein

841
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: Show like it's it's that apparently insane of an idea

842
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: to think that maybe this is going to make us

843
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: feel better crazy, And I think it will, right, And

844
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: so yeah, I feel like even introverts they need human connection.

845
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: And the pandemic just did a number on all of us,

846
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: and so figuring out how to rekindle those friendships is

847
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: crucial to our future optimism because we're beings meant to

848
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: live in community with one another, and meaningful relationships can

849
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: turn that roun.

850
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 2: Upside down well, and not only I think hanging out

851
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: with friends, but also family. So kind of going back

852
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 2: to some of the studies that we presented at the

853
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 2: beginning of the episode, it's folks who are valuing family,

854
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: and I think often what that can also mean is

855
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: reaching out to your parents. You're out living on your own,

856
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: maybe for the first time, or maybe you're in your thirties,

857
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: you've got a kid, and you're basically completely slammed. You're

858
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 2: in that stage of life where you have no margin

859
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: when it comes to your schedule at all. It feels

860
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 2: like every second, every minute is being scheduled. But what

861
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 2: that means is prioritizing those relationships, prioritizing family. And I

862
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 2: think that kind of like dovetails with the social connection

863
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: that we get from hanging out with friends as well.

864
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: So our friend who donated this beer to the show

865
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 1: five Am, Joel, he has like a recurring happy hour

866
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: that he does with people on his street and everybody

867
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 1: knows Friday's before it's hang out in Joel's front yard

868
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: nice byob So it's not like he has got to

869
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: get like his place cleaned up or anything like that.

870
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: Like it's super chill.

871
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: And I think that's a really good, like maybe potential

872
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: thing to implement that doesn't put a big burden on

873
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: you to create some sort of hangout space. It's literally

874
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: just like green light four o'clock, let's go, let's hang,

875
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 1: let's talk, and kids will run around do crazy stuff

876
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: to each other. Yeah, it's that's like a good way

877
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: to go about it.

878
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: It helps too when you live in la and the

879
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: weather's always nice, that's true, you hang out outside in

880
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: the front yard. Yeah, but maybe maybe that's an argument

881
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: for moving down to the sun belt, like so many

882
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 2: folks are doing these days. But another bit of advice

883
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 2: that we think is going to lead you to becoming

884
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 2: more optimistic is to consume less media, both mainstream and

885
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: social media, because I mean, you probably don't want to

886
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 2: be completely ignorant of what's going on out there in

887
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 2: the world, right But the twenty four to seven news cycle,

888
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 2: it hasn't been a good thing for us as a country,

889
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: and tuning into it with regularity isn't doing great things

890
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 2: for your outlook on life. In all likelihood, thinking about

891
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 2: politics less that would likely help a great deal a

892
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 2: great number of folks as well. And let's be honest,

893
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: it's not like we have the ability to change much

894
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 2: of that anyway. And so that's kind of like the

895
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 2: mainstream national media. But when it comes to social media,

896
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 2: man like delete apps from your phone if you find

897
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: yourself doom scrolling late at night and it's a keeping

898
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 2: you from going to sleep on time because you just

899
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 2: keep scrolling and you keep scrolling. But and then on

900
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: top of that, you're getting you're blasting yourself not only

901
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: with potentially unhealthy content, that's comparing yourself to other people

902
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: and the lives of folks who where you're like, oh,

903
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,479
Speaker 2: I kind of wish I was abroad or I wish

904
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 2: I was doing what is it like slow travel where

905
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 2: you're living in a country for months at a time.

906
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 2: It's that unhealthy blue light stuff too, right, Yeah, exact,

907
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: That's what I was gonna say. Just blasting your brain

908
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: like that blue light. It's telling your brain that it's

909
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 2: not time to go to sleep. It's like you do,

910
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 2: put your phone.

911
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: Down, it's party time, and it's going to take you

912
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: an extra hour of turning and.

913
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: Wrestling and it's crappy sleep. And so I mean, I

914
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: think it can It sounds silly, but even just charging

915
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 2: your phone in a different room, I think that can

916
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: go a long ways. And it's it's something that sounds

917
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: like old, like fuddy duddy advice, but I've like, literally,

918
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 2: I think this is something I'm going to start implementing

919
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 2: in my own life because I find myself I'm like, okay,

920
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 2: I'm a scroll for a little bit longer, and before

921
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: I know it, like fifteen minutes as a lapse, and

922
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 2: I'm like, dang it, I should already be asleep by now. Yeah. No,

923
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: I think that's good. That's good advice.

924
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: And I think so something else this one's gonna sound

925
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: a bit woo woo, Matt, which is not normally my vibe.

926
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: But imagining good things for your future, I think I

927
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: can also help when it comes to becoming more optimistic.

928
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: And what I mean is like thinking about what it's

929
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: going to be like to achieve your goals. It can

930
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: give you the visualization to keep going down the path

931
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: of reaching them in here and now and so I

932
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: don't know, imagine future you with no credit card debt

933
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: and meaningful savings on hand, and how that would significantly

934
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: change your life. And it's it's not some sort of

935
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: dream it and achieve it thing. I hate stuff like that.

936
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: But the way we talk to ourselves matters. It's crazy

937
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: important manifested Joel, not that like it's and I don't

938
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: know how to say it without like I kind of

939
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: tone in this line, right, But so many studies have

940
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: found this, like how we talk to ourselves and how

941
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: we're able to conceive of our own futures. If we

942
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: can think good things about those things, then it's going

943
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: to actually help put us on the path in the

944
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: right direction. When we can visualize it, it makes us

945
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: more motivated than to do the things here and now

946
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: that are going to help us actually get there, And

947
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: if we keep doubting our ability to make progress, it's

948
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: going to directly impact the action actions that we take

949
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: or opt not to take.

950
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, But simultaneously, like there's a there's a balance, this

951
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: stright between looking ahead to the future and being thankful

952
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: for the things that you already have, like the ability

953
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 2: to kind of look back on like your history and

954
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 2: to be thankful for those things. And so that's actually

955
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 2: I think another thing that helps us read more optimism

956
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: is to document the good things that we have right now.

957
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 2: This is a practice that we actually we do at

958
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: the dinner table every night with our kids, and we

959
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: call it like a rose abud in a thorn, And

960
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 2: so what was your rose of the day? What was

961
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: the best thing that happened today? What's the bud? What's

962
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 2: the thing you're looking forward to in the future? Is

963
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 2: it camp this summer? Is it a field trip? Like?

964
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 2: Is it the end of school? Is it? Like?

965
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: What is it that you're excited about? And then the thorn, like,

966
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 1: let's talk about the bad things too. Sometimes bad things happen,

967
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: and then how can we discuss that in a way

968
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: that maybe makes us feel better and kind of turns

969
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 1: that negative, the negative thing that might have happened that day,

970
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: into a healing conversation. So I don't know, think that

971
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 1: that's kind of how we practice it. And again maybe

972
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: that sounds a lot weird, but I think I think

973
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: it's good documenting those good things, like we're we're so

974
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: quick to discount those good things or not even like

975
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: when someone does something amazing for it's just it's not

976
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: just saying thank you that someone made you dinner. I mean,

977
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: what does it do for them when you say that,

978
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: when you use those words, and then what does it

979
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: do for you when you actually acknowledge it?

980
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: M yeah, yeah, And in my mind is it's less

981
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: about It's not that we're actively trying to discount things.

982
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: It's just that we're just looking ahead. Right. There's a

983
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 2: fine balance between setting goals for yourself and working towards

984
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: those things versus constantly only looking for and looking ahead,

985
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 2: which is why I think, like you said, like pausing

986
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 2: for a moment and talking about your day, like looking

987
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 2: to the past, how that can be helpful. A conversation

988
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 2: Kate and I've had recently is like we've noticed that

989
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 2: we don't have many photos like hung up in our house,

990
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: and I think one of the things that we're gonna

991
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 2: do is literally print out pictures from our past to

992
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: help us to be thankful for where we are now.

993
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 2: It because I think I Kate and I are both

994
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 2: very visual, and I think we need some visual cues

995
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 2: to help us to remember what has happened in the past,

996
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 2: you know, like we need those things to help us

997
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 2: to see that like, oh man, like look, how look

998
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 2: at that tiny apartment that we used to live in.

999
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: Can you believe, though, how far we've come? Like yeah,

1000
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: or look how small the kids were, or like, oh man,

1001
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 2: look how unhealthy I was back then, Like I'm in

1002
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 2: much better health now. But the ability to reflect upon

1003
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: those things can make us grateful for the things that

1004
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 2: we've achieved in the past. And not only can it

1005
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 2: be I think it can also make us a little

1006
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: more content, perhaps with the life that we're living now.

1007
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 2: Like like I almost think by thinking about things that

1008
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 2: have happened in the past and by being gracious for

1009
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 2: the things that I'm able to live more presently within

1010
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: the here and now right And so it's not like

1011
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 2: you're just completely living in the past, where you're just like, oh, yeah,

1012
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: the good old days, like where you're hanging out with

1013
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 2: a bunch of the high schooluddies or something like. We're

1014
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 2: experiencing a lot of the nostalgic craze because we miss

1015
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 2: the days of your right. That's why the Super Mario

1016
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: Brothers movie, even though apparently it wasn't good, like, made

1017
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 2: eight hundred million. Oh did it really?

1018
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: Because I think we're longing for nostalgic events because we

1019
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 1: think that things are better in the nineties.

1020
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 2: And like, when you think.

1021
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: About it, if you could be if someone said I've

1022
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: got a time machine, where should I transport you back to?

1023
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: Most of us probably wouldn't choose to go back to

1024
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: anywhere in the past. I mean, unless like something terrible

1025
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 1: has happened in your life. But think about just what.

1026
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 2: We just have such positive emotions about things in the past.

1027
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong

1028
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: with having this. Like I'd like to listen to Third

1029
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 1: Eye Blind and be like, oh, the nineties were great,

1030
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that I want to like live

1031
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: in that either.

1032
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I totally agree, And I think it's important

1033
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 2: to point out here that being an optimist This does

1034
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: not mean ignoring bad things completely, right, Like, I think

1035
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 2: we've all met folks out there who will tell you that, like, hey,

1036
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 2: it'll be all right, Like don't worry about it at

1037
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 2: all the moment after something really bad has happened. Like,

1038
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 2: in my mind, that's not necessarily optimism. It's almost avoidance,

1039
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,439
Speaker 2: where you're just squashing any feelings that you might have.

1040
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 2: Optimism isn't about tamping down how it is that you

1041
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 2: feel about something. It's really all about putting difficulties that

1042
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 2: you encounter in a new light. It's sort of saying

1043
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 2: to yourself, Hey, this is an obstacle, this is a hurdle.

1044
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 2: It's going to take some extra effort on my part,

1045
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 2: but I'm still going to get to where I want

1046
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 2: to be. I think it's okay to feel the sheer weight,

1047
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: the sheer crappiness of a situation. We just don't want

1048
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: you to sit in that funk for too long. Yeah,

1049
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 2: it's okay to recognize those feelings, but then pretty shortly

1050
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 2: after that to be like, okay, but again, this is

1051
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 2: what I'm working towards, and I need to make sure

1052
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 2: that we're taking the steps to get there.

1053
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and right, now collectively as a society, we're stewing

1054
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: in our own pessimism and it is radically unhealthy. And

1055
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: so optimism, we would say, is a sort of crazy

1056
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 1: when you think about it. It has all these incredible benefits.

1057
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: And the thing is, the more progress you make, the

1058
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: more optimistic you start to become. It's the opposite Matt

1059
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: of what you were talking about earlier, like the terrible

1060
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: vicious cycle, and it becomes we're now taking those continued

1061
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: steps in the right direction, breeds even more progress. It's

1062
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: a it's a virtuous cycle of sorts. Right now, you

1063
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 1: know what can be done, and so you keep doing it,

1064
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 1: and you start to make progress, and you get energized

1065
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: by the progress and you keep marching in the right direction.

1066
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: And I don't think either of us is saying that

1067
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: optimism is a cure all for poverty or for not

1068
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: having enough money or for having like no income. Hey

1069
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: just be happier, right, yeah, Just turn that front upside down,

1070
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: have a better outlook on life, slap yourself on the button,

1071
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: keep going. I mean, that's that's not what we're saying here.

1072
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: But like especially I think in today's day and age,

1073
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: with what's going.

1074
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 2: On in our culture as a whole.

1075
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: We need a message that optimism is warranted and that

1076
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 1: it makes a difference.

1077
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 2: Share this episode of with three Friends and we will

1078
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 2: upload a video of Joel slapping himself on the butt.

1079
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 2: All right, man, let's get to the beer that you

1080
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 2: and I enjoy during this episode. It's gonna look a

1081
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 2: real weird like you smack somebody else on the butt,

1082
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,919
Speaker 2: like all right, go get them, or like you pat

1083
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 2: yourself on the back. But you said pat yourself on

1084
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: the butt, which in my mind was a very funny picture.

1085
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: Our beer we enjoyed a stress Dissolver. This was a

1086
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: BlackBerry sour beer by Common Space. A big things to

1087
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 2: our friend Joel out in California for donating this one

1088
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 2: to the show.

1089
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts on this one, buddy? So this

1090
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 1: was lightly sour. BlackBerry is not usually a berry found

1091
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: in beers. I feel like it's often raspberries or strawberries

1092
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 1: or cherries, but this was blueberry or blueberry, so this

1093
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: was interesting.

1094
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 2: And yeah, BlackBerry is like lower on the hierarchy of

1095
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 2: the different berries that get used in the brewing process.

1096
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: They're usually kind of second fiddle right to all the

1097
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: other beer fitth fiddle. They all shine today though in

1098
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: this one, and so yeah, no, I liked it was

1099
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: it was really light for yeah, so it wasn't terribly

1100
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: terribly tart.

1101
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:53,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't super sourd like it's a sour beer,

1102
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 2: but it didn't have like, it wasn't overly acidic.

1103
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: It didn't have like that mouth puckering sourness to it

1104
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,439
Speaker 1: could really still be kind of like a long more beer,

1105
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: right if you oh yeah, yeah, you know, just kind of.

1106
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: I know, beer doesn't actually quench your thirst, but it

1107
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: kind of feels thirst qunching like it.

1108
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 2: And it was effervescent and so it kind of made

1109
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 2: it almost made me think of like a BlackBerry soda

1110
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,879
Speaker 2: all right, Like it was just real clean. It didn't

1111
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 2: have any funk, almost like a berlinervice, but without that

1112
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,399
Speaker 2: weedy chewiness. Yeah that oftentimes finishes out a Berlin advice,

1113
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 2: you know, you know, yeah, okay, yeah nice. Yeah, Well

1114
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 2: either way, I'm glad, you know, I got to enjoy

1115
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 2: this one. It's a very delicious beer to have on

1116
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 2: some of these warmer days that we've been experiencing. So

1117
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 2: maybe I'll crack one of these and get to cut

1118
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 2: my grass right after this episode.

1119
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: There you go, all right, sounds nice. Well, thanks everybody

1120
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: for listening. We always appreciate it. If you want links

1121
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: to some of the stuff we mentioned, you can find

1122
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: those up on the show notes at how to money

1123
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: dot com. And if you want more optimistic money advice,

1124
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: you can always find that in r how to Money Newsletter,

1125
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: which comes out every Tuesday morning. You can sign up

1126
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: for that at how to money dot com slash newsletter.

1127
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: It's free, by the way, so it's.

1128
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 2: Right check it out. But that's gonna be it for

1129
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 2: this one, buddy. Until next time, Best friends out, best

1130
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 2: Friends Out.

1131
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: The