1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:24,636 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, they're not lost, listeners. It's Acelin Green, host 2 00:00:24,716 --> 00:00:28,476 Speaker 1: of the acclaimed weekly podcast series Unpacked by AFAR, the 3 00:00:28,556 --> 00:00:31,196 Speaker 1: podcast that helps you navigate the travel world, whether you 4 00:00:31,236 --> 00:00:34,116 Speaker 1: want advice on an ethical dilemma or just to figure 5 00:00:34,156 --> 00:00:38,396 Speaker 1: out where to travel next. This season Unpacked, I'm speaking 6 00:00:38,436 --> 00:00:41,756 Speaker 1: with seasoned travelers and industry professionals to unpack the most 7 00:00:41,836 --> 00:00:46,076 Speaker 1: captivating and challenging topics in the travel industry, one conversation 8 00:00:46,276 --> 00:00:49,516 Speaker 1: at a time. Today, I am thrilled to share a 9 00:00:49,596 --> 00:00:53,436 Speaker 1: special episode of Unpacked with you. It's a roundtable discussion 10 00:00:53,516 --> 00:00:56,796 Speaker 1: examining the twenty five most exciting places around the world 11 00:00:56,796 --> 00:01:00,276 Speaker 1: to visit in twenty twenty four. Featuring myself and AFAR 12 00:01:00,436 --> 00:01:04,396 Speaker 1: editors Saraka Bunsel, Tim Chester and Billy Cohen. We chat 13 00:01:04,436 --> 00:01:06,796 Speaker 1: about everything from the sites to see in Rome that 14 00:01:06,836 --> 00:01:10,916 Speaker 1: are beyond your normal tourist activities, reasons why travelers visiting 15 00:01:10,996 --> 00:01:13,716 Speaker 1: Africa for the first time should go to Lamu Kenya, 16 00:01:13,796 --> 00:01:17,276 Speaker 1: and the best destinations to view twenty twenty four solar eclipse. 17 00:01:18,276 --> 00:01:21,556 Speaker 1: Needless to say, Unpacked is the perfect companion podcast and 18 00:01:21,636 --> 00:01:24,556 Speaker 1: not lost, especially if you're looking for another podcast that 19 00:01:24,676 --> 00:01:27,316 Speaker 1: dives into the heart of travel, so make sure to 20 00:01:27,356 --> 00:01:30,556 Speaker 1: follow Unpacked on your favorite podcast app. With that said, 21 00:01:30,676 --> 00:01:37,116 Speaker 1: here's the show. Hi everyone, Welcome to Unpacked. Welcome back 22 00:01:37,156 --> 00:01:37,836 Speaker 1: to Unpacked. 23 00:01:38,276 --> 00:01:40,556 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for tulling us. We're just so excited 24 00:01:40,556 --> 00:01:41,916 Speaker 2: to be here to talk about where to go. 25 00:01:42,916 --> 00:01:46,076 Speaker 1: I know and you are fresh off making this list happen. 26 00:01:46,476 --> 00:01:48,876 Speaker 3: It's burned into our brains. We're all very excited for 27 00:01:48,916 --> 00:01:50,956 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four to happen so we can start taking 28 00:01:50,996 --> 00:01:53,436 Speaker 3: these trips we've been writing and editing about for months. 29 00:01:53,796 --> 00:01:56,036 Speaker 1: Before we start talking about the list, I'd love to 30 00:01:56,116 --> 00:01:59,276 Speaker 1: just start with having everyone introduce themselves and say where 31 00:01:59,316 --> 00:02:02,036 Speaker 1: they are in the world. Sarka, do you want to start? 32 00:02:02,436 --> 00:02:05,916 Speaker 2: Hi? I'm Saraka bunsel I am the editorial director. I'm 33 00:02:05,956 --> 00:02:09,516 Speaker 2: based in Nairobi, Kenya. There's been a country wide power 34 00:02:09,556 --> 00:02:13,276 Speaker 2: outage of the last twenty four plus hours now, so 35 00:02:13,516 --> 00:02:16,316 Speaker 2: I have a bit of a cobbled setup right now. 36 00:02:17,916 --> 00:02:20,636 Speaker 2: Luckily we do have like a good solar power backup 37 00:02:20,676 --> 00:02:23,836 Speaker 2: and everything, but but I feel very like I'm glad 38 00:02:23,836 --> 00:02:25,716 Speaker 2: I'm here by the string of my teeth. 39 00:02:26,156 --> 00:02:29,036 Speaker 1: It is very impressive that you're here given all of that. 40 00:02:29,636 --> 00:02:33,276 Speaker 1: Thank you. And Billy hop at you. 41 00:02:33,716 --> 00:02:33,876 Speaker 2: Hi. 42 00:02:33,956 --> 00:02:36,676 Speaker 3: I'm Billy Cohen, executive editor, and I'm based in New 43 00:02:36,756 --> 00:02:39,396 Speaker 3: York and you have power and we have power. 44 00:02:40,036 --> 00:02:41,516 Speaker 1: Yeah it's not too. 45 00:02:41,436 --> 00:02:46,636 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, if it is not summer right where everything? 46 00:02:46,676 --> 00:02:48,556 Speaker 3: There are a ton of brownets in the city. But yeah, 47 00:02:48,676 --> 00:02:50,716 Speaker 3: seems to be doing okay. We have construction though, So 48 00:02:50,756 --> 00:02:52,716 Speaker 3: if you hear any of that out out of my 49 00:02:52,796 --> 00:02:54,396 Speaker 3: back window, that's what that will be. 50 00:02:54,876 --> 00:02:56,036 Speaker 1: And Tim, that leaves you. 51 00:02:56,556 --> 00:02:59,636 Speaker 4: Hi, I'm Tim Chester, I'm deputy editor. I'm in a 52 00:02:59,756 --> 00:03:03,956 Speaker 4: very sunny power field southern California, thousand Oaks near LA 53 00:03:03,996 --> 00:03:05,716 Speaker 4: where I always am when we do these. I thought 54 00:03:05,756 --> 00:03:07,396 Speaker 4: I was a traveler, but I always seem to be 55 00:03:07,436 --> 00:03:08,956 Speaker 4: as podcast time. 56 00:03:09,196 --> 00:03:12,716 Speaker 1: So yeah, we need to plan the next recording for 57 00:03:12,756 --> 00:03:16,316 Speaker 1: when you are somewhere really fascinating. Yeah, maybe someplace on 58 00:03:16,356 --> 00:03:21,116 Speaker 1: the list. Yeah all right, Well, let's dig into this 59 00:03:21,236 --> 00:03:23,676 Speaker 1: wonderfulness that you've put together. I mean it's a big one. 60 00:03:23,956 --> 00:03:26,876 Speaker 1: How did you approach this this year? What was your 61 00:03:26,916 --> 00:03:28,196 Speaker 1: mindset going into it? 62 00:03:28,556 --> 00:03:31,276 Speaker 2: I think a couple of things that we tend to 63 00:03:31,316 --> 00:03:34,796 Speaker 2: look for when we start getting pitches in are Of course, 64 00:03:34,836 --> 00:03:38,636 Speaker 2: there's just no shortage of great places to go. Ever, 65 00:03:39,196 --> 00:03:41,476 Speaker 2: and I know that these lists can sometimes feel a 66 00:03:41,516 --> 00:03:43,796 Speaker 2: little bit random. One of the things that we really 67 00:03:43,796 --> 00:03:46,076 Speaker 2: try to filter for is like what's new in a 68 00:03:46,116 --> 00:03:48,916 Speaker 2: place or what places are really having a moment, and 69 00:03:48,956 --> 00:03:50,756 Speaker 2: that can be you know, one of many things. If 70 00:03:50,756 --> 00:03:54,476 Speaker 2: there's a cultural opening, or if there's something exciting happening 71 00:03:54,516 --> 00:03:57,756 Speaker 2: regarding conservation, or if there's just some big event happening 72 00:03:57,796 --> 00:04:01,556 Speaker 2: that is a reason to go specifically next year. That's 73 00:04:01,716 --> 00:04:04,316 Speaker 2: one thing that we really typically try to look for. 74 00:04:04,756 --> 00:04:07,476 Speaker 2: And then we also really you know, are looking to 75 00:04:07,556 --> 00:04:10,556 Speaker 2: get a good geographical mix, so you know, we don't 76 00:04:10,596 --> 00:04:12,636 Speaker 2: want to just focus a bunch of places in Europe, 77 00:04:12,676 --> 00:04:14,436 Speaker 2: but really want to try to get around the globe 78 00:04:14,756 --> 00:04:18,196 Speaker 2: and give people reasons to go, maybe back to places 79 00:04:18,236 --> 00:04:21,276 Speaker 2: that they've already been, and also consider some places in 80 00:04:21,316 --> 00:04:23,076 Speaker 2: the world that they may not have ever heard of. 81 00:04:23,116 --> 00:04:24,916 Speaker 2: And I think our list has a nice mix of 82 00:04:24,996 --> 00:04:25,556 Speaker 2: both of those. 83 00:04:25,916 --> 00:04:28,596 Speaker 4: One hundred percent. My favorite part of making the list 84 00:04:28,636 --> 00:04:30,756 Speaker 4: and working on this, apart from when the issues just 85 00:04:30,876 --> 00:04:32,956 Speaker 4: left the building, is right at the beginning, when we 86 00:04:33,036 --> 00:04:36,996 Speaker 4: solicit pitches and we have writers and contributors all around 87 00:04:37,036 --> 00:04:39,756 Speaker 4: the world and all sorts of places and getting back 88 00:04:39,756 --> 00:04:41,796 Speaker 4: in touch with them, finding out where they are, where 89 00:04:41,796 --> 00:04:44,836 Speaker 4: they're recommending, what they're excited about. We kind of get 90 00:04:44,876 --> 00:04:47,356 Speaker 4: all these ideas in like well over one hundred, couple 91 00:04:47,396 --> 00:04:50,196 Speaker 4: of hundred ideas and divide them up by continent and 92 00:04:50,276 --> 00:04:52,236 Speaker 4: then have a look at them together. And it's just 93 00:04:52,236 --> 00:04:54,196 Speaker 4: really interesting to sort of take the post the travel 94 00:04:54,196 --> 00:04:57,676 Speaker 4: writer community and see what's exciting everyone, and then the 95 00:04:57,716 --> 00:04:59,836 Speaker 4: hard work of kind of narrowing it down, you know, 96 00:04:59,996 --> 00:05:01,236 Speaker 4: all a list comes in. 97 00:05:01,996 --> 00:05:06,076 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I love that we're working with writers and 98 00:05:06,076 --> 00:05:08,796 Speaker 3: our staff who've actually been in these places with their 99 00:05:08,796 --> 00:05:09,516 Speaker 3: feet on the ground. 100 00:05:09,556 --> 00:05:11,156 Speaker 5: Some of them are live in these places. 101 00:05:11,556 --> 00:05:13,756 Speaker 3: So we get all these pitches and we get all 102 00:05:13,796 --> 00:05:18,076 Speaker 3: these ideas, and sometimes they are locations that surprise us 103 00:05:18,276 --> 00:05:20,476 Speaker 3: because maybe we wouldn't have thought of that, but because 104 00:05:20,516 --> 00:05:24,116 Speaker 3: that person is very familiar with that location, they're able 105 00:05:24,196 --> 00:05:26,676 Speaker 3: to give a new spin on it that we think 106 00:05:26,756 --> 00:05:29,836 Speaker 3: is really interesting and will be really interesting to travelers 107 00:05:29,876 --> 00:05:30,236 Speaker 3: as well. 108 00:05:30,636 --> 00:05:32,836 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that there's so much knowledge 109 00:05:32,876 --> 00:05:35,676 Speaker 1: and kind of intimate experience with these places going into 110 00:05:35,716 --> 00:05:38,636 Speaker 1: the list. Tim, you mentioned it started as a pretty 111 00:05:38,996 --> 00:05:42,356 Speaker 1: big list, and this year we have twenty five destinations 112 00:05:42,396 --> 00:05:44,556 Speaker 1: on the list, which still feels like sometimes more, how 113 00:05:44,596 --> 00:05:46,116 Speaker 1: did you wind up with twenty five? 114 00:05:46,276 --> 00:05:48,396 Speaker 4: Well, it couldn't be twenty four twenty four. 115 00:05:48,276 --> 00:05:53,756 Speaker 6: That, No, we don't go in for that kind of 116 00:05:53,996 --> 00:05:59,036 Speaker 6: numerical puntery. Other funds are five but not rest totally. 117 00:05:59,956 --> 00:06:01,516 Speaker 6: Wait till we start talking about Bruno. 118 00:06:03,956 --> 00:06:07,116 Speaker 5: First, obviously obviously. 119 00:06:08,916 --> 00:06:13,596 Speaker 4: This second question you beat me too. What we're talking about? 120 00:06:14,676 --> 00:06:16,596 Speaker 4: Should we just talk about that joke? Now there's one 121 00:06:16,596 --> 00:06:22,276 Speaker 4: of the places, Yeah, go for it, and it's felt Brno, 122 00:06:22,396 --> 00:06:25,196 Speaker 4: which is obviously Bruno without the you and believe you 123 00:06:25,196 --> 00:06:26,036 Speaker 4: want to explain. 124 00:06:25,756 --> 00:06:26,236 Speaker 2: Why that. 125 00:06:28,196 --> 00:06:31,476 Speaker 3: Because of Encanto And so the minute it got pitched, 126 00:06:31,876 --> 00:06:34,836 Speaker 3: I just started making that terrible pun every time it 127 00:06:34,876 --> 00:06:37,236 Speaker 3: came up. I was like, let's talk about Bruno. Let's 128 00:06:37,236 --> 00:06:40,076 Speaker 3: talk about Bruno. And then I enlisted him to ask 129 00:06:40,196 --> 00:06:43,076 Speaker 3: him to repeat the joke every time he was talking 130 00:06:43,076 --> 00:06:46,236 Speaker 3: about it too, and he very gamely agreed. So here 131 00:06:46,276 --> 00:06:49,156 Speaker 3: we are, and here all the listeners get to get 132 00:06:49,196 --> 00:06:52,116 Speaker 3: to know the high jinks behind the scenes and my 133 00:06:52,836 --> 00:06:53,716 Speaker 3: love of puns. 134 00:06:54,196 --> 00:06:55,876 Speaker 4: I think with the list, we did get it down 135 00:06:55,916 --> 00:06:57,756 Speaker 4: to sort of a dozen, and then and then we 136 00:06:57,836 --> 00:07:00,236 Speaker 4: kept having places that we really wanted to have in 137 00:07:00,276 --> 00:07:02,596 Speaker 4: and so it went up. Oh yeah, sort of doubled 138 00:07:02,596 --> 00:07:04,436 Speaker 4: in size, isn't it. And obviously some of them are 139 00:07:04,516 --> 00:07:06,996 Speaker 4: rounded up in thematic pieces. 140 00:07:07,396 --> 00:07:10,756 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we started seeing some places like, for example, 141 00:07:10,796 --> 00:07:13,956 Speaker 2: Paris has the Summer Olympics going on, so it felt 142 00:07:13,996 --> 00:07:16,516 Speaker 2: like an obvious inclusion, but we also didn't want to 143 00:07:16,956 --> 00:07:20,396 Speaker 2: give it so much space in the magazine because the 144 00:07:20,436 --> 00:07:22,916 Speaker 2: Summer Olympics could be for a lot of people a 145 00:07:22,956 --> 00:07:24,996 Speaker 2: reason not to go to Paris next year, but we 146 00:07:25,116 --> 00:07:27,676 Speaker 2: didn't want to not mention it. So it became like 147 00:07:27,876 --> 00:07:31,596 Speaker 2: we had a few places like Bruno, che Chechia and 148 00:07:31,716 --> 00:07:34,356 Speaker 2: a bunch of others that we were really excited to feature, 149 00:07:34,596 --> 00:07:36,516 Speaker 2: but then there were some others that also just felt 150 00:07:36,516 --> 00:07:39,956 Speaker 2: like there were important enough things happening there, or they 151 00:07:39,956 --> 00:07:44,116 Speaker 2: were capitals of something like the European Capital of Culture 152 00:07:44,596 --> 00:07:48,116 Speaker 2: and whatnot that felt, you know, really interesting and important 153 00:07:48,116 --> 00:07:50,836 Speaker 2: to mention, but then we didn't want to give it 154 00:07:50,876 --> 00:07:53,076 Speaker 2: as much space in the print magazine. 155 00:07:53,276 --> 00:07:57,476 Speaker 1: Yeah that makes sense. Well, you mentioned events, and that 156 00:07:57,556 --> 00:07:59,676 Speaker 1: does seem to be a bit of a theme throughout 157 00:07:59,716 --> 00:08:02,276 Speaker 1: the list. We'll talk about some in particular a little 158 00:08:02,316 --> 00:08:04,396 Speaker 1: later on. But why was that a focus and what 159 00:08:04,476 --> 00:08:05,956 Speaker 1: are you most excited about. 160 00:08:06,236 --> 00:08:06,836 Speaker 5: I'll jump in. 161 00:08:07,036 --> 00:08:09,076 Speaker 3: One of the big events for twenty twenty four is 162 00:08:09,276 --> 00:08:12,236 Speaker 3: the solar clips that's happening on April A. Across the 163 00:08:12,276 --> 00:08:14,476 Speaker 3: staff at AFAR, we're all seemed to be obsessed with 164 00:08:14,516 --> 00:08:15,156 Speaker 3: these eclipses. 165 00:08:15,196 --> 00:08:17,356 Speaker 5: So that was in Texas. 166 00:08:17,556 --> 00:08:20,756 Speaker 3: So the idea was raised by one of our colleagues, 167 00:08:20,796 --> 00:08:23,596 Speaker 3: Mah Hamilton, that Texas and the hill country in Texas 168 00:08:23,676 --> 00:08:28,076 Speaker 3: would be an ideal place to experience the eclipse coming aprillly, 169 00:08:28,196 --> 00:08:29,796 Speaker 3: so we knew we wanted to do something on that, 170 00:08:30,396 --> 00:08:32,796 Speaker 3: and then using that as an opportunity to talk about 171 00:08:32,836 --> 00:08:34,756 Speaker 3: that area of the country where there's also a lot 172 00:08:34,796 --> 00:08:37,516 Speaker 3: going on. There's a lot in the wine scene, there's 173 00:08:37,836 --> 00:08:40,236 Speaker 3: a lot of small towns with a lot of culture 174 00:08:40,276 --> 00:08:42,676 Speaker 3: to visit. It seemed like a great way to talk 175 00:08:42,676 --> 00:08:45,556 Speaker 3: about an event but also make it more about a 176 00:08:45,556 --> 00:08:49,356 Speaker 3: place that people could experience beyond that one day. Another 177 00:08:49,356 --> 00:08:51,676 Speaker 3: way that we were thinking about events not just go 178 00:08:51,756 --> 00:08:54,436 Speaker 3: and have the event and experience the event, but what 179 00:08:54,556 --> 00:08:56,916 Speaker 3: can we share with people about the location that that 180 00:08:56,956 --> 00:08:57,996 Speaker 3: event has taking place in. 181 00:08:58,316 --> 00:09:00,836 Speaker 4: I think that really comes out nicely in Texas. On 182 00:09:00,916 --> 00:09:03,796 Speaker 4: the choice of photography, when I thought of that piece, 183 00:09:03,996 --> 00:09:06,956 Speaker 4: I imagine just big, wide open text and plane at night 184 00:09:06,996 --> 00:09:10,116 Speaker 4: with some stars or something obvious about the eclipse. But 185 00:09:10,196 --> 00:09:12,476 Speaker 4: actually what we've got is this lovely shot of two 186 00:09:12,516 --> 00:09:15,036 Speaker 4: girls swimming underwater at one of the swimming holes and 187 00:09:15,076 --> 00:09:18,116 Speaker 4: a truck driving through the kind of wildflower meadows. And 188 00:09:18,156 --> 00:09:21,716 Speaker 4: that's one of my favorite things about writing for a magazine, especially, 189 00:09:21,836 --> 00:09:23,556 Speaker 4: is when the art team bring it to life and 190 00:09:23,596 --> 00:09:25,356 Speaker 4: it just it's just amazing. I love it. 191 00:09:25,596 --> 00:09:29,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, an unexpected look at the place. Why do you 192 00:09:29,876 --> 00:09:33,276 Speaker 1: think so many people are drawn to traveling for solar eclipses? 193 00:09:33,556 --> 00:09:36,516 Speaker 2: It feels like a nerdy phenomenon that's still cool and 194 00:09:36,556 --> 00:09:40,556 Speaker 2: you can everyone can still appreciate the enormous power of it. 195 00:09:40,676 --> 00:09:43,276 Speaker 2: I think it's also a moment to just feel connected 196 00:09:43,276 --> 00:09:47,356 Speaker 2: with this much broader galaxy that we live in, and 197 00:09:47,476 --> 00:09:50,436 Speaker 2: to just realize that we are quite quite small. I 198 00:09:50,516 --> 00:09:53,236 Speaker 2: felt that for sure. I got to see some really 199 00:09:53,316 --> 00:09:56,876 Speaker 2: far away galaxies in a telescope, you know, very powerful telescope, 200 00:09:57,236 --> 00:10:00,396 Speaker 2: and just that feeling of being really small and reminded of, 201 00:10:00,476 --> 00:10:02,956 Speaker 2: you know, that we are just little dots. Kind of 202 00:10:02,956 --> 00:10:05,316 Speaker 2: an amazing feeling. I think it just brings people together. 203 00:10:05,796 --> 00:10:07,596 Speaker 3: Yeah, and the fact that we all get to witness 204 00:10:07,636 --> 00:10:10,796 Speaker 3: it together. I think there are some really special about that. 205 00:10:11,356 --> 00:10:14,196 Speaker 4: Astric tourism seems to be a big thing at hotels 206 00:10:14,276 --> 00:10:17,996 Speaker 4: everywhere nowadays. I mean a number of places. Someone at 207 00:10:17,996 --> 00:10:20,316 Speaker 4: a hotel, someone's rolled out a telescope and has been 208 00:10:20,316 --> 00:10:24,876 Speaker 4: an impromptu stargazing type experience. I think people are just 209 00:10:24,916 --> 00:10:26,916 Speaker 4: traveling for that all the time. So obviously the eclipse 210 00:10:26,996 --> 00:10:29,556 Speaker 4: is like the big festival, you know, dramatic version of that. 211 00:10:29,836 --> 00:10:34,876 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Well, what else surprised you on this year's list. 212 00:10:35,076 --> 00:10:37,036 Speaker 4: I don't want to give, but I know too much 213 00:10:37,036 --> 00:10:39,516 Speaker 4: of the limelight, And obviously Prague is the more well 214 00:10:39,556 --> 00:10:44,316 Speaker 4: known city, and great story from Emma John about just 215 00:10:44,356 --> 00:10:47,196 Speaker 4: the arts and culture and the vibe of that city 216 00:10:47,236 --> 00:10:49,916 Speaker 4: and some of the really interesting things going on there 217 00:10:49,956 --> 00:10:53,956 Speaker 4: like cabinet moots, this vegan cafe by day and banned 218 00:10:54,116 --> 00:10:58,196 Speaker 4: venue at night, Museum of Fine Arts with floating chairs 219 00:10:58,316 --> 00:11:01,036 Speaker 4: and as part of the exhibits, cocktail bar where you 220 00:11:01,156 --> 00:11:03,876 Speaker 4: take part in the story, and a hotel that's only 221 00:11:03,876 --> 00:11:06,036 Speaker 4: twenty six feet wide. I think in that piece she 222 00:11:06,076 --> 00:11:08,636 Speaker 4: really brought out all the sort of interesting curiosities of 223 00:11:08,676 --> 00:11:11,316 Speaker 4: that place and definitely made me want to visit, which 224 00:11:11,316 --> 00:11:13,316 Speaker 4: is obviously the point of these pieces. 225 00:11:14,556 --> 00:11:17,516 Speaker 2: I'll say two things generally that surprised me about the list. 226 00:11:17,716 --> 00:11:21,396 Speaker 2: One is a lot of places that we chose are 227 00:11:22,076 --> 00:11:24,236 Speaker 2: places that you had I mean, of course, we do 228 00:11:24,356 --> 00:11:26,916 Speaker 2: have the Burgnos and a few others that I think 229 00:11:27,156 --> 00:11:28,876 Speaker 2: will be quite new for a lot of readers, but 230 00:11:28,916 --> 00:11:31,756 Speaker 2: we do have quite a few places that I think 231 00:11:31,796 --> 00:11:33,956 Speaker 2: people have heard of and may have traveled to before, 232 00:11:34,396 --> 00:11:38,196 Speaker 2: but we have sort of fresh reasons to visit. Two 233 00:11:38,236 --> 00:11:42,796 Speaker 2: examples that come to mind there are Rome, Italy and 234 00:11:43,116 --> 00:11:47,156 Speaker 2: Los Angeles, California, and both of them are pretty well 235 00:11:47,196 --> 00:11:51,076 Speaker 2: known destinations. In the case of Rome, there are a 236 00:11:51,116 --> 00:11:54,796 Speaker 2: lot of new, beautiful looking hotels that I think will 237 00:11:54,836 --> 00:11:56,956 Speaker 2: be a draw for people to come and not just 238 00:11:57,196 --> 00:11:59,556 Speaker 2: come in and try to see the coliseum and try 239 00:11:59,596 --> 00:12:02,076 Speaker 2: to do all of the bucket list type of things 240 00:12:02,516 --> 00:12:05,276 Speaker 2: Rome is famous for, but also just try to stay 241 00:12:05,276 --> 00:12:08,076 Speaker 2: and enjoy the city and experience a lot of the 242 00:12:08,596 --> 00:12:11,556 Speaker 2: other piece of the city that may be overlooked. There 243 00:12:11,596 --> 00:12:15,636 Speaker 2: are also a lot of archaeological sites that are being 244 00:12:15,676 --> 00:12:18,436 Speaker 2: breathed new life into and I think that that just 245 00:12:18,636 --> 00:12:20,836 Speaker 2: gives a lot of people who maybe have been to 246 00:12:20,956 --> 00:12:23,516 Speaker 2: Rome once before on a europe trip at some point 247 00:12:23,756 --> 00:12:26,476 Speaker 2: a reason to go back and really try to explore 248 00:12:26,476 --> 00:12:30,796 Speaker 2: the city afresh. In Los Angeles, there's a really large 249 00:12:30,796 --> 00:12:33,636 Speaker 2: black art movement that's going on there, a really large 250 00:12:33,636 --> 00:12:35,636 Speaker 2: space that's opening up, and also a ton of new 251 00:12:35,676 --> 00:12:38,076 Speaker 2: restaurants that I think a lot of our readers would 252 00:12:38,076 --> 00:12:40,396 Speaker 2: be excited to check out. And the second thing that 253 00:12:40,436 --> 00:12:42,556 Speaker 2: surprised me about our list is that a lot of 254 00:12:42,596 --> 00:12:48,236 Speaker 2: destinations we chose because of their sustainability and conservation commitment. 255 00:12:48,676 --> 00:12:51,836 Speaker 2: This is true for places like Fiji where a lot 256 00:12:51,916 --> 00:12:56,676 Speaker 2: of hotels have strong commitments to help preserve ocean life, 257 00:12:56,996 --> 00:13:00,676 Speaker 2: places like Norway where there's just so much green transport 258 00:13:00,996 --> 00:13:04,036 Speaker 2: and ways to get around the country, and many others 259 00:13:04,076 --> 00:13:06,796 Speaker 2: too that I think that really have done quite a 260 00:13:06,796 --> 00:13:09,236 Speaker 2: lot on the environment, which was one of our factors 261 00:13:09,236 --> 00:13:09,836 Speaker 2: and choosing it. 262 00:13:10,396 --> 00:13:12,636 Speaker 3: Yeah, some of the places that we chose had a 263 00:13:12,636 --> 00:13:16,276 Speaker 3: cultural sustainability and a cultural aspect that was coming up 264 00:13:16,596 --> 00:13:19,836 Speaker 3: obviously events and festivals. But one of the places that 265 00:13:20,196 --> 00:13:22,756 Speaker 3: surprised me or that I learned something about was Saint Kitts. 266 00:13:23,196 --> 00:13:25,236 Speaker 3: The pitch came in from a writer we've worked with 267 00:13:25,316 --> 00:13:29,636 Speaker 3: Rosalinda Cummings Eats, and she had been there and met 268 00:13:29,796 --> 00:13:34,036 Speaker 3: two people who were sort of bringing back the legacy 269 00:13:34,116 --> 00:13:36,796 Speaker 3: of rom in Saint Kitts. Now it's in the Caribbean, 270 00:13:36,996 --> 00:13:39,556 Speaker 3: and I think people sort of widely know that there 271 00:13:39,596 --> 00:13:42,676 Speaker 3: was sugar plantations there during the various colonial eras of 272 00:13:42,716 --> 00:13:44,996 Speaker 3: those islands, and Saint Kitts had been a British colony 273 00:13:45,036 --> 00:13:46,916 Speaker 3: for a very long time where there were a lot 274 00:13:46,956 --> 00:13:50,796 Speaker 3: of plantations that were farmed by enslaved African peoples. And 275 00:13:51,636 --> 00:13:57,876 Speaker 3: recently there's this movement to reclaim that really painful and 276 00:13:57,956 --> 00:14:03,556 Speaker 3: complicated past, but through local residents, local coetitions they call themselves. 277 00:14:03,636 --> 00:14:06,156 Speaker 3: So there's two companies that are doing that to sort 278 00:14:06,156 --> 00:14:09,556 Speaker 3: of bring back that history and talk about it in 279 00:14:09,596 --> 00:14:12,756 Speaker 3: a new light, really re evaluating that history and sharing 280 00:14:12,756 --> 00:14:14,996 Speaker 3: what it meant to the local people who were living 281 00:14:15,036 --> 00:14:17,156 Speaker 3: there and their descendants now and I think especially in 282 00:14:17,156 --> 00:14:19,996 Speaker 3: the Caribbean where maybe people are just thinking about it 283 00:14:20,036 --> 00:14:23,796 Speaker 3: as a sun and beach destination, to learn that there 284 00:14:23,836 --> 00:14:29,116 Speaker 3: are points of cultural connection that are available, that was 285 00:14:29,516 --> 00:14:31,236 Speaker 3: surprising and exciting to me. 286 00:14:31,436 --> 00:14:34,196 Speaker 1: That's so cool. And you can taste the rum, yes, 287 00:14:34,316 --> 00:14:34,836 Speaker 1: you can. 288 00:14:35,356 --> 00:14:37,156 Speaker 3: You can go to these places. The two companies. One 289 00:14:37,716 --> 00:14:39,676 Speaker 3: is run by this guy, Jack Whittison. It's called Old 290 00:14:39,756 --> 00:14:42,316 Speaker 3: Road Rum Company. And he grew up on in a 291 00:14:42,396 --> 00:14:45,836 Speaker 3: state that was a sugar plantation and when he was 292 00:14:45,876 --> 00:14:49,236 Speaker 3: like a teenager, they are archaeologists who found the ruins 293 00:14:49,276 --> 00:14:52,596 Speaker 3: of an old distillery on it. They dated it back 294 00:14:52,596 --> 00:14:54,756 Speaker 3: to the sixteen hundreds and they think it's the oldest 295 00:14:54,876 --> 00:14:58,036 Speaker 3: rum distillery in the Caribbean. And he was like fourteen 296 00:14:58,196 --> 00:15:00,836 Speaker 3: when they found this, and so then he grows up 297 00:15:00,996 --> 00:15:02,356 Speaker 3: and he's like, you know what I'm going to do. 298 00:15:03,316 --> 00:15:05,836 Speaker 3: I'm going to start our own company. He's trying to 299 00:15:05,876 --> 00:15:08,556 Speaker 3: rebuild that distillery actually so that they can for the 300 00:15:08,596 --> 00:15:11,956 Speaker 3: first time long time, you know, make rum actually on 301 00:15:11,996 --> 00:15:14,276 Speaker 3: the island. But in the meantime he's blending RUMs from 302 00:15:14,356 --> 00:15:17,516 Speaker 3: the region and inviting people to the property where he 303 00:15:17,556 --> 00:15:20,076 Speaker 3: does tours and lets the taste and talks about this history. 304 00:15:20,476 --> 00:15:22,196 Speaker 3: So yeah, you can go, and there's a tour you 305 00:15:22,196 --> 00:15:24,636 Speaker 3: can take called the Sant Kids rum Master's Tour, so 306 00:15:24,716 --> 00:15:27,596 Speaker 3: you can go and visit the Old World Rum. And 307 00:15:27,836 --> 00:15:31,676 Speaker 3: another company called Hibiscus Spirits and Taste and learn how 308 00:15:31,676 --> 00:15:36,316 Speaker 3: to make Saint Kits Cetician cocktails and Caribbean influenced cocktails 309 00:15:36,356 --> 00:15:39,916 Speaker 3: and really hear the story and learn about the history 310 00:15:39,916 --> 00:15:40,916 Speaker 3: and a new perspective. 311 00:15:41,996 --> 00:15:44,156 Speaker 1: Well, one of the other things that I'm hearing you say, 312 00:15:44,356 --> 00:15:46,396 Speaker 1: I think all three of you, is that you learned 313 00:15:46,516 --> 00:15:50,116 Speaker 1: so much through making this list. Is there anything in 314 00:15:50,196 --> 00:15:51,916 Speaker 1: kind of a broader sense that you feel like you 315 00:15:52,036 --> 00:15:54,076 Speaker 1: learned kind of putting this list together? 316 00:15:54,396 --> 00:15:56,356 Speaker 3: How many places there are in the world that I 317 00:15:56,516 --> 00:16:00,316 Speaker 3: cannot wait to visit? You know, it's never ending, which 318 00:16:00,356 --> 00:16:01,236 Speaker 3: I mean, thank goodness. 319 00:16:01,316 --> 00:16:03,236 Speaker 2: I think also we have a lot of focus on 320 00:16:03,356 --> 00:16:05,636 Speaker 2: arts and culture this year, and a lot of our 321 00:16:05,796 --> 00:16:09,396 Speaker 2: stories like Los Angeles that I had mentioned before, Saint Kits, 322 00:16:09,636 --> 00:16:13,396 Speaker 2: There's many others to Manchester, England, which Billy wrote, and 323 00:16:13,436 --> 00:16:16,396 Speaker 2: they all seem so specific their art scenes. You can 324 00:16:16,476 --> 00:16:18,396 Speaker 2: get to some things that feel like, you know, you 325 00:16:18,436 --> 00:16:20,916 Speaker 2: could be anywhere, but all of the ones that we highlight, 326 00:16:20,956 --> 00:16:23,916 Speaker 2: I feel like they seem very specific to the place, 327 00:16:24,716 --> 00:16:25,756 Speaker 2: which I just I love. 328 00:16:25,676 --> 00:16:28,716 Speaker 1: That some of that really seems to come because many 329 00:16:28,756 --> 00:16:33,276 Speaker 1: of the writers who wrote pieces this year actually live 330 00:16:33,316 --> 00:16:35,796 Speaker 1: in these places or know them really well. You mentioned 331 00:16:35,876 --> 00:16:38,276 Speaker 1: Rome earlier, Sarka, and that was written by someone who 332 00:16:38,316 --> 00:16:40,356 Speaker 1: lives there and has that kind of insider knowledge. 333 00:16:40,436 --> 00:16:44,116 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Laura, it's Goitz. She first moved to Rome 334 00:16:44,236 --> 00:16:45,836 Speaker 2: for a couple of years in two thousand and nine, 335 00:16:45,876 --> 00:16:49,476 Speaker 2: and now she's lived there permanently since twenty nineteen or so. 336 00:16:49,676 --> 00:16:52,396 Speaker 2: It was so clear working with her just how knowledgeable 337 00:16:52,436 --> 00:16:54,956 Speaker 2: she was. One thing I really enjoyed while working on 338 00:16:54,996 --> 00:16:57,716 Speaker 2: that story in particular, was she talks about some of 339 00:16:57,716 --> 00:17:02,196 Speaker 2: the archaeological digs and these different sites that were uncovered 340 00:17:02,236 --> 00:17:04,796 Speaker 2: first by Mussolini and then fell a little bit more 341 00:17:04,796 --> 00:17:07,876 Speaker 2: into disrepair and then are now being brought back. And 342 00:17:08,276 --> 00:17:11,356 Speaker 2: I almost felt like as I was reading the story, 343 00:17:11,436 --> 00:17:13,996 Speaker 2: I was getting the type of tour that she was 344 00:17:14,036 --> 00:17:16,836 Speaker 2: talking about in Rome that so many tourists don't do 345 00:17:16,956 --> 00:17:20,116 Speaker 2: because they're just focused on hitting up the coliseum, going 346 00:17:20,156 --> 00:17:21,996 Speaker 2: to the forum, then you know, booking it to the 347 00:17:21,996 --> 00:17:24,356 Speaker 2: Amalfi coast so they can take all their Instagram photos. 348 00:17:24,396 --> 00:17:27,276 Speaker 2: And this was just such a just even the process 349 00:17:27,316 --> 00:17:29,876 Speaker 2: of reading the story, I felt like, oh, I get 350 00:17:29,916 --> 00:17:32,956 Speaker 2: what she's talking about, and every question that I had 351 00:17:32,956 --> 00:17:35,996 Speaker 2: for her, she would just write these long paragraphs and 352 00:17:35,996 --> 00:17:37,836 Speaker 2: then say, well, if this doesn't work, then we can 353 00:17:37,876 --> 00:17:40,036 Speaker 2: try this site and she would just tell me all 354 00:17:40,076 --> 00:17:42,196 Speaker 2: about the history of that site, going back to like 355 00:17:42,276 --> 00:17:45,356 Speaker 2: Julius Caesar, and it was a little bit of a 356 00:17:46,036 --> 00:17:48,116 Speaker 2: European history primer that I was getting. 357 00:17:48,436 --> 00:17:50,396 Speaker 1: You need to put that out there somewhere for listeners 358 00:17:50,396 --> 00:17:53,756 Speaker 1: to read. I also wanted to talk about sustainability. You 359 00:17:53,796 --> 00:17:56,796 Speaker 1: mentioned it earlier. Is there anything else that you want 360 00:17:56,876 --> 00:17:59,316 Speaker 1: to add about how this list was framed for a 361 00:17:59,316 --> 00:18:00,596 Speaker 1: climate conscious traveler. 362 00:18:00,916 --> 00:18:02,716 Speaker 2: Yeah, So a couple of things that come to mind 363 00:18:02,756 --> 00:18:05,516 Speaker 2: for me and Billy and Tim please add. One is 364 00:18:05,516 --> 00:18:09,076 Speaker 2: that we do have a decent number of domestic destinations 365 00:18:09,236 --> 00:18:12,476 Speaker 2: and the list as well, so people don't have to 366 00:18:12,516 --> 00:18:15,916 Speaker 2: travel halfway around the world in order to get to 367 00:18:15,996 --> 00:18:19,756 Speaker 2: experience something magical, like we do highlight a few great 368 00:18:19,796 --> 00:18:25,276 Speaker 2: American cities, including places like Philadelphia and Seattle and Charleston 369 00:18:25,876 --> 00:18:29,396 Speaker 2: that are having moments right now, and other North American 370 00:18:29,436 --> 00:18:33,116 Speaker 2: cities too, like Toronto and Los Angeles. So all of 371 00:18:33,116 --> 00:18:36,076 Speaker 2: these places I think are much closer for a lot 372 00:18:36,076 --> 00:18:38,996 Speaker 2: of our readers to actually get to. So that's something 373 00:18:39,076 --> 00:18:41,276 Speaker 2: that of course, like you know, the actual act of 374 00:18:41,276 --> 00:18:44,236 Speaker 2: traveling somewhere uses a lot of the carbon and then 375 00:18:44,436 --> 00:18:47,156 Speaker 2: a lot of the hotels that we mention throughout the piece. 376 00:18:47,236 --> 00:18:50,756 Speaker 2: They also have really strong climate initiatives. For example, for 377 00:18:51,196 --> 00:18:53,396 Speaker 2: getting back to Rome again the sixth Senses that we 378 00:18:53,556 --> 00:18:56,636 Speaker 2: mention as one of the hotels there that's recently opened, 379 00:18:56,996 --> 00:19:00,356 Speaker 2: they actually are on one hundred percent green power. So 380 00:19:00,436 --> 00:19:02,236 Speaker 2: you know, guests can feel a little bit better about 381 00:19:02,236 --> 00:19:05,836 Speaker 2: staying at places that have such strong climate commitments, and 382 00:19:05,876 --> 00:19:08,316 Speaker 2: so you can make your trip greener growth than how 383 00:19:08,316 --> 00:19:10,516 Speaker 2: you get there, and then once you get there, where 384 00:19:10,516 --> 00:19:12,396 Speaker 2: you stay. Like, all of these things sort of add 385 00:19:12,476 --> 00:19:14,876 Speaker 2: up and you can have a much lighter footprint than 386 00:19:15,676 --> 00:19:17,556 Speaker 2: maybe a more traditional traveler wide. 387 00:19:17,876 --> 00:19:19,716 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you covered it. I mean, obviously we're 388 00:19:19,716 --> 00:19:23,876 Speaker 4: always trying to help people find lesser known, lesser touristed places, 389 00:19:23,996 --> 00:19:26,276 Speaker 4: or if they're going somewhere like Rome, to stay longer, 390 00:19:26,396 --> 00:19:28,476 Speaker 4: and I think there's plenty of ideas in their own 391 00:19:28,476 --> 00:19:32,516 Speaker 4: piece for making a longer trip supporting local businesses. I 392 00:19:32,516 --> 00:19:34,796 Speaker 4: will say, I talk about what we learned making the list. 393 00:19:34,796 --> 00:19:36,516 Speaker 4: I realized I need to see a lot more of 394 00:19:36,676 --> 00:19:39,596 Speaker 4: La which is just down the road. Obviously, Destination Crench 395 00:19:39,756 --> 00:19:42,516 Speaker 4: or the Black Art Project is finally opening next year, 396 00:19:42,756 --> 00:19:45,116 Speaker 4: but there's loads of small businesses in that piece I 397 00:19:45,156 --> 00:19:48,076 Speaker 4: could go and support and check out some great food options. 398 00:19:48,516 --> 00:19:50,796 Speaker 4: It's also just while we're on LA the one hundredth 399 00:19:50,836 --> 00:19:53,236 Speaker 4: anniversary of the Hollywood Sign as well, so as well 400 00:19:53,276 --> 00:19:56,876 Speaker 4: as everything new there, there's a lot of heritage obviously 401 00:19:56,916 --> 00:20:00,156 Speaker 4: to enjoy. And I went for a walk up to 402 00:20:00,196 --> 00:20:03,836 Speaker 4: the letters with the Hollywood Sign Trust chairman. It's very 403 00:20:04,796 --> 00:20:09,276 Speaker 4: it's very vitigenous. Hi, I'm not one for heights. He 404 00:20:09,356 --> 00:20:10,956 Speaker 4: was giving me a long story of the history of 405 00:20:10,956 --> 00:20:12,636 Speaker 4: the sign while I was kind of like holding onto 406 00:20:12,676 --> 00:20:15,476 Speaker 4: the piece of wood that used to hold up the 407 00:20:15,676 --> 00:20:18,756 Speaker 4: l for the land when it was Hollywood Land. And yeah, 408 00:20:18,796 --> 00:20:20,476 Speaker 4: some great history there. And you can walk all the 409 00:20:20,476 --> 00:20:22,076 Speaker 4: way out behind it and see the sign and the 410 00:20:22,116 --> 00:20:25,516 Speaker 4: city behind it. So sustainability wise, what do we miss? 411 00:20:25,716 --> 00:20:28,476 Speaker 3: There are three locations in particular on the list that 412 00:20:28,556 --> 00:20:31,916 Speaker 3: are notable for their sustainability efforts, and those Refiji, which 413 00:20:31,956 --> 00:20:35,276 Speaker 3: Tim wrote about, and he could talk about Norway and Bhutan. 414 00:20:35,956 --> 00:20:40,156 Speaker 3: Norway it's almost, I won't say behind the scenes, but 415 00:20:40,876 --> 00:20:44,436 Speaker 3: there's a sort of a countrywide effort to honor the 416 00:20:44,436 --> 00:20:47,196 Speaker 3: beautiful nature that's there. Right obviously they have fjords and 417 00:20:47,436 --> 00:20:51,476 Speaker 3: beautiful water and mountains, and they know it right, but 418 00:20:51,556 --> 00:20:52,756 Speaker 3: they also know, hey. 419 00:20:52,556 --> 00:20:53,476 Speaker 1: We have to protect this. 420 00:20:53,636 --> 00:20:58,476 Speaker 3: So the public transportation options, they're working on hybrid electric 421 00:20:58,596 --> 00:21:02,116 Speaker 3: trains and fully electric trains. The country is phasing out 422 00:21:02,156 --> 00:21:04,556 Speaker 3: internal combustion cars, so like I think one in every 423 00:21:04,596 --> 00:21:08,316 Speaker 3: five cars is an electric vehicle. Very easy to rent that, 424 00:21:08,876 --> 00:21:11,716 Speaker 3: So the sort of day to day of your trip, 425 00:21:11,756 --> 00:21:16,596 Speaker 3: if you were traveling there could be respectful of the 426 00:21:16,716 --> 00:21:21,636 Speaker 3: nature that you were seeing, and we wanted to recognize that. Tim, 427 00:21:21,716 --> 00:21:23,516 Speaker 3: you want to talk about Fiji, there's a similar kind 428 00:21:23,556 --> 00:21:24,396 Speaker 3: of thing going on there. 429 00:21:24,596 --> 00:21:24,836 Speaker 2: Yeah. 430 00:21:24,916 --> 00:21:28,276 Speaker 4: What stopped me about fijis there's obviously lots of high 431 00:21:28,396 --> 00:21:30,556 Speaker 4: end resorts there, but a lot of them are taking 432 00:21:30,596 --> 00:21:33,876 Speaker 4: ocean conservation really seriously and letting guests help with that. 433 00:21:34,836 --> 00:21:39,876 Speaker 4: So you can help plant coral, you can plant mangrove saplings, 434 00:21:39,916 --> 00:21:43,516 Speaker 4: So mangroves is obviously the kind of plant superheroes when 435 00:21:43,516 --> 00:21:47,796 Speaker 4: it comes to carbon sequestrian sequestration. How what is the 436 00:21:47,836 --> 00:21:52,116 Speaker 4: word then, putting going down carbon and also acting as 437 00:21:52,116 --> 00:21:54,796 Speaker 4: flood barriers and habitat. So yeah, I went there a 438 00:21:54,876 --> 00:21:57,476 Speaker 4: year ago to stay at Nanuku Resort on the south 439 00:21:57,556 --> 00:22:01,196 Speaker 4: coast of the main island Viti. Levu. Yeah, it just 440 00:22:01,236 --> 00:22:04,396 Speaker 4: met some really passionate people there who just doing lots 441 00:22:04,436 --> 00:22:06,436 Speaker 4: of great things in the ocean and on the land. 442 00:22:06,836 --> 00:22:08,716 Speaker 3: I thought that was so cool that their resorts have 443 00:22:08,796 --> 00:22:14,316 Speaker 3: marine biologists on staff. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing, right, not 444 00:22:14,356 --> 00:22:16,836 Speaker 3: just for sustainability but for nerdiness, Like now I want 445 00:22:16,876 --> 00:22:18,236 Speaker 3: to go to Fiji and just hang out with the 446 00:22:18,276 --> 00:22:19,756 Speaker 3: marine biologists. 447 00:22:19,956 --> 00:22:22,476 Speaker 4: Yeah. And they're doing great work with local communities as well, 448 00:22:22,516 --> 00:22:24,716 Speaker 4: helping them come and see the project, get involved, and 449 00:22:24,756 --> 00:22:28,116 Speaker 4: they're planting these mangroves near the villages to help sort 450 00:22:28,116 --> 00:22:30,756 Speaker 4: of flood protection there rather than you know, building big 451 00:22:30,796 --> 00:22:33,436 Speaker 4: concrete walls and putting bricks down. The other thing that 452 00:22:33,476 --> 00:22:35,836 Speaker 4: struck me about Fiji is very few people go there 453 00:22:35,876 --> 00:22:38,516 Speaker 4: from the States. When I went from LA it's a 454 00:22:38,596 --> 00:22:41,596 Speaker 4: direct flight. You have to take an overnight flight both ways, 455 00:22:41,676 --> 00:22:44,596 Speaker 4: which is the downside. But the plus side is in 456 00:22:44,636 --> 00:22:47,356 Speaker 4: twenty twenty two, seventy thousand people went from the US 457 00:22:47,676 --> 00:22:50,876 Speaker 4: and seven point seven million went to Hawaii. So if 458 00:22:50,916 --> 00:22:53,036 Speaker 4: you're looking for somewhere with a lot of tourists and 459 00:22:53,036 --> 00:22:55,796 Speaker 4: a lot more space to enjoy all this natural beauty, 460 00:22:55,836 --> 00:22:59,436 Speaker 4: then I recommend it. I love I loved it. 461 00:23:06,276 --> 00:23:09,476 Speaker 1: Well. We talked a little bit about events earlier. One 462 00:23:09,516 --> 00:23:12,076 Speaker 1: that really cut my eye was I think the whimsy 463 00:23:12,116 --> 00:23:14,756 Speaker 1: of it was the Kite Festival. Can you tell us 464 00:23:14,796 --> 00:23:17,556 Speaker 1: a little bit more about the Chinese city that hosts. 465 00:23:17,276 --> 00:23:20,236 Speaker 4: It, Yeah, I Fang. I've never been there myself. I've 466 00:23:20,236 --> 00:23:23,356 Speaker 4: only been to Beijing, but it's about halfway between Beijing 467 00:23:23,396 --> 00:23:25,916 Speaker 4: and Shanghai, about four or five hours drive from each 468 00:23:26,436 --> 00:23:28,996 Speaker 4: and next year is the culture city of East Asia. 469 00:23:29,396 --> 00:23:31,196 Speaker 4: It's sort of one of the places that has a 470 00:23:31,276 --> 00:23:33,196 Speaker 4: claim to be in the birthplace of kites, but it's 471 00:23:33,196 --> 00:23:36,436 Speaker 4: definitely known as a kite capital of the world. And 472 00:23:36,436 --> 00:23:40,476 Speaker 4: they have this festival every April International Kite Festival. It 473 00:23:40,596 --> 00:23:42,796 Speaker 4: draws in tens of thousands of people and as you 474 00:23:42,796 --> 00:23:45,516 Speaker 4: can imagine, all the kind of colorful kites, and they 475 00:23:45,556 --> 00:23:48,036 Speaker 4: have a World Kite Museum. I don't know if you 476 00:23:48,116 --> 00:23:50,276 Speaker 4: guys flown kites. For me, it's like half an hour 477 00:23:50,276 --> 00:23:54,556 Speaker 4: of untangling and for three minutes of fun. So I 478 00:23:54,556 --> 00:23:57,356 Speaker 4: imagine it's amazing to see experts beautifully made, you know, 479 00:23:57,436 --> 00:23:59,836 Speaker 4: handbag kites. The sky is full of them. 480 00:23:59,956 --> 00:24:01,076 Speaker 5: It does sound so cool. 481 00:24:01,476 --> 00:24:05,156 Speaker 4: Yeah, White Fang's also Unesco creative city of craft and 482 00:24:05,196 --> 00:24:07,756 Speaker 4: folk arts, so it's not just kites. The visitors there 483 00:24:07,756 --> 00:24:10,956 Speaker 4: can earn about clay modeling for cutting, wood, block printing. 484 00:24:11,676 --> 00:24:13,836 Speaker 4: It just sounds like a very interesting creative city and 485 00:24:13,916 --> 00:24:16,516 Speaker 4: apparently has a great night food market scene as well. 486 00:24:17,556 --> 00:24:20,036 Speaker 1: Well. I think it kind of came up naturally earlier. 487 00:24:20,076 --> 00:24:22,156 Speaker 1: But you know, because Tim, you've been to Fiji, But 488 00:24:22,236 --> 00:24:25,076 Speaker 1: have you been to any of these places recently? I mean, Billy, 489 00:24:25,156 --> 00:24:27,396 Speaker 1: I know you were just in Estonia and loved it. 490 00:24:28,316 --> 00:24:31,236 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna say I won't bore you all with it, 491 00:24:31,276 --> 00:24:32,676 Speaker 3: but I will bore you all with it. 492 00:24:32,796 --> 00:24:33,356 Speaker 5: I loved it. 493 00:24:34,156 --> 00:24:37,036 Speaker 3: I loved it Estonia. I didn't know much about it. 494 00:24:37,396 --> 00:24:40,436 Speaker 3: I think most US travelers familiarity with it is Talent 495 00:24:40,476 --> 00:24:43,596 Speaker 3: in the capitol, which is a stop on Baltic cruises. 496 00:24:43,716 --> 00:24:47,756 Speaker 3: So that's the port that people go to, and they 497 00:24:47,796 --> 00:24:51,556 Speaker 3: don't really get out of that city, and that is 498 00:24:52,116 --> 00:24:56,836 Speaker 3: just a missed opportunity. The country's small, it's phenomenal, it's gorgeous. 499 00:24:56,836 --> 00:25:00,836 Speaker 3: You've got this beautiful UNESCO World Heritage old town in Talent, 500 00:25:00,876 --> 00:25:04,796 Speaker 3: which is gorgeous. It's like fourteenth century castles and walls 501 00:25:04,836 --> 00:25:08,676 Speaker 3: and things and then you can go two hours outside 502 00:25:08,796 --> 00:25:12,236 Speaker 3: and in a couple of national parks. I went hiking 503 00:25:12,316 --> 00:25:15,316 Speaker 3: in a bog which was like walking on snowshoes on 504 00:25:15,476 --> 00:25:19,876 Speaker 3: Imagine a carpet of peat moss, like a foot thick, 505 00:25:20,356 --> 00:25:23,076 Speaker 3: and it just kind of sinks slightly and you're on 506 00:25:23,636 --> 00:25:27,156 Speaker 3: converted snowshoes, so you're sort of walking on water and 507 00:25:27,196 --> 00:25:29,636 Speaker 3: it's just gorgeous. So I got to do that and 508 00:25:29,716 --> 00:25:31,516 Speaker 3: hike through a forest and you can pick your own 509 00:25:31,556 --> 00:25:34,396 Speaker 3: mushrooms because everything is like fresh and natural and all 510 00:25:34,396 --> 00:25:38,116 Speaker 3: of it. Everything's like two hours apart, and it's super modernized, 511 00:25:38,156 --> 00:25:41,636 Speaker 3: like the roads in the highways, everybody speaks English. There's 512 00:25:41,716 --> 00:25:44,836 Speaker 3: Wi Fi everywhere, like the country is really committed to 513 00:25:45,476 --> 00:25:49,116 Speaker 3: internet access and digital education and stuff, so it's very 514 00:25:49,196 --> 00:25:53,716 Speaker 3: easy for travelers to experience. And then in Tartu, which 515 00:25:53,756 --> 00:25:56,236 Speaker 3: is the second largest city, it's only about. 516 00:25:55,996 --> 00:25:58,716 Speaker 5: One hundred thousand people, so it's still pretty small. 517 00:25:58,876 --> 00:26:02,316 Speaker 3: They are one of Europe's cultural capitals for twenty twenty four, 518 00:26:02,876 --> 00:26:06,076 Speaker 3: So there we talked about events, but all year long 519 00:26:06,116 --> 00:26:08,756 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four, they're going to be various things 520 00:26:08,756 --> 00:26:11,356 Speaker 3: that people can go and experience and get to know 521 00:26:11,876 --> 00:26:15,116 Speaker 3: that city. Which is also surprised me because you get 522 00:26:15,156 --> 00:26:17,636 Speaker 3: to the main town square and it looks like something 523 00:26:17,716 --> 00:26:21,316 Speaker 3: out of like Nice, like it looked like southern Europe. 524 00:26:21,436 --> 00:26:24,836 Speaker 3: It's like a cobblestone town square with a statue in 525 00:26:24,876 --> 00:26:29,276 Speaker 3: the middle and these beautiful, colorful, stately buildings around and 526 00:26:29,836 --> 00:26:33,436 Speaker 3: open air cafes everywhere and a river running through it. 527 00:26:33,516 --> 00:26:36,836 Speaker 3: So it has this very European feel that my guess 528 00:26:36,916 --> 00:26:40,276 Speaker 3: is people don't associate with that far north in Europe. 529 00:26:40,516 --> 00:26:41,276 Speaker 5: And it was just cool. 530 00:26:41,276 --> 00:26:43,796 Speaker 3: And so there's all this like very sort of classical 531 00:26:44,196 --> 00:26:48,236 Speaker 3: europe feeling stuff, but there's also leftover Soviet era relics 532 00:26:48,396 --> 00:26:51,716 Speaker 3: and that was really interesting to see. I had a blast. 533 00:26:52,156 --> 00:26:55,116 Speaker 3: I've met so many cool people and I can't recommend 534 00:26:55,156 --> 00:26:55,516 Speaker 3: it enough. 535 00:26:55,716 --> 00:26:57,916 Speaker 4: Go to Estonia, Billy, What makes you want to go 536 00:26:57,956 --> 00:26:58,836 Speaker 4: there in the first place. 537 00:26:59,316 --> 00:27:03,716 Speaker 3: I'd read an article in BBC Travel where a writer 538 00:27:03,876 --> 00:27:07,796 Speaker 3: had interviewed this man who lives in the area where 539 00:27:07,796 --> 00:27:09,916 Speaker 3: they do the bog hiking, and I think the writer 540 00:27:10,756 --> 00:27:12,476 Speaker 3: hadn't even gone because it during the pandemic. 541 00:27:12,516 --> 00:27:15,156 Speaker 5: But you can cut all this out Acelin, but. 542 00:27:15,116 --> 00:27:20,436 Speaker 3: There is in this region of Estonia where it's all bogs, 543 00:27:20,516 --> 00:27:23,916 Speaker 3: like it's all marshes and stuff. They have what they 544 00:27:23,916 --> 00:27:26,396 Speaker 3: call a fifth season that happens in March when all 545 00:27:26,436 --> 00:27:29,396 Speaker 3: the snow melt from the surrounding areas. There's no real 546 00:27:29,436 --> 00:27:31,796 Speaker 3: mountains in Estonia, but there's a lot of rivers, so 547 00:27:32,276 --> 00:27:36,396 Speaker 3: from the surrounding areas floods these rivers, and every couple 548 00:27:36,356 --> 00:27:40,836 Speaker 3: of years like cars sink, you know, like the water 549 00:27:40,956 --> 00:27:43,636 Speaker 3: rays is really high, and everybody has to get around 550 00:27:43,676 --> 00:27:48,876 Speaker 3: on canoes. And I just thought that sounded so interesting, 551 00:27:49,036 --> 00:27:51,796 Speaker 3: and it was such an interesting climate story. It was 552 00:27:51,836 --> 00:27:56,156 Speaker 3: such an interesting cultural adaptation story, and I just thought 553 00:27:56,156 --> 00:27:58,156 Speaker 3: it was fascinating. So I was like, well, I want 554 00:27:58,156 --> 00:28:00,956 Speaker 3: to go there. And then the rest of the trip happened, 555 00:28:00,996 --> 00:28:02,996 Speaker 3: and then I got to meet that man who does 556 00:28:02,996 --> 00:28:04,116 Speaker 3: the canoeing in the box. 557 00:28:04,156 --> 00:28:05,196 Speaker 5: He's the one who took me hiking. 558 00:28:05,716 --> 00:28:08,236 Speaker 3: So you never know, people read our stories and then 559 00:28:08,356 --> 00:28:11,396 Speaker 3: years later they go to these places. And then it 560 00:28:11,396 --> 00:28:13,316 Speaker 3: turned out because Tartu was going to be the one 561 00:28:13,316 --> 00:28:16,236 Speaker 3: of the twenty twenty four European Capitals of Culture, it 562 00:28:16,276 --> 00:28:18,596 Speaker 3: was like, okay, well now it's there's a moment happening. 563 00:28:19,836 --> 00:28:22,276 Speaker 3: How is this country going to embrace that and show 564 00:28:22,316 --> 00:28:24,636 Speaker 3: off you know, their arts and culture. 565 00:28:24,316 --> 00:28:27,396 Speaker 5: Scenes for the rest of the world. Was that true? 566 00:28:27,396 --> 00:28:29,756 Speaker 2: Man? That is one thing I just love about our 567 00:28:29,756 --> 00:28:33,036 Speaker 2: list in general is just hopefully, even if people aren't 568 00:28:33,076 --> 00:28:35,996 Speaker 2: able to go this year, it just plants a seed 569 00:28:36,156 --> 00:28:39,196 Speaker 2: somewhere that hey, this is the place that I never 570 00:28:39,316 --> 00:28:42,876 Speaker 2: really thought of before, and hopefully one day when I'm 571 00:28:42,916 --> 00:28:45,476 Speaker 2: able to go somewhere that this may be someone on 572 00:28:45,516 --> 00:28:46,916 Speaker 2: my list. Yeah. 573 00:28:46,956 --> 00:28:49,796 Speaker 1: Absolutely, It's something that you kind of save, right like 574 00:28:49,876 --> 00:28:53,156 Speaker 1: you saved this version of the magazine or bookmark the 575 00:28:53,436 --> 00:28:56,436 Speaker 1: article online and hopefully use it as inspiration for years 576 00:28:56,436 --> 00:28:56,756 Speaker 1: to come. 577 00:28:56,956 --> 00:28:59,316 Speaker 2: I was just thinking the destinations I wrote about, which 578 00:28:59,356 --> 00:29:01,916 Speaker 2: is La mu Kenya, I think is hopefully going to 579 00:29:01,916 --> 00:29:03,916 Speaker 2: be that for a lot of people, because I think 580 00:29:03,956 --> 00:29:07,476 Speaker 2: many people who come to Africa for the first time 581 00:29:07,556 --> 00:29:10,556 Speaker 2: the continent of Africa, which contains fifty four countries that 582 00:29:10,596 --> 00:29:15,116 Speaker 2: they do typically go on safari to experience Africa's wild places, 583 00:29:15,636 --> 00:29:19,916 Speaker 2: which are incredible, and I totally understand that. At the 584 00:29:19,916 --> 00:29:22,636 Speaker 2: same time, there is so much more to the continent 585 00:29:22,836 --> 00:29:27,156 Speaker 2: than animals and wild places. There's also just incredible cities, 586 00:29:27,316 --> 00:29:29,676 Speaker 2: and in this case, the one that I've wrote about, 587 00:29:29,956 --> 00:29:33,716 Speaker 2: this island with a really very unique and well preserved 588 00:29:33,796 --> 00:29:38,796 Speaker 2: Swahili culture, which is this blend of Bantu like East 589 00:29:38,796 --> 00:29:43,636 Speaker 2: African culture combined with Arabic and Persian and some European 590 00:29:43,756 --> 00:29:46,876 Speaker 2: and Indian and Chinese cultures that have sort of made 591 00:29:46,916 --> 00:29:49,916 Speaker 2: this melting pot. And it's very you know, you wouldn't 592 00:29:49,916 --> 00:29:53,156 Speaker 2: be able to find this architecture in many other places 593 00:29:53,316 --> 00:29:56,156 Speaker 2: or a lot of other cultural facets that are very 594 00:29:56,156 --> 00:29:58,876 Speaker 2: well preserved. Again, Lamu Town, which is the main town 595 00:29:58,916 --> 00:30:02,236 Speaker 2: on the island, is also a UNESCO World Heritage Site 596 00:30:02,236 --> 00:30:06,516 Speaker 2: for that reason, and I think anyone who is planning 597 00:30:06,556 --> 00:30:09,476 Speaker 2: a trip to the continent, I feel like it's it's 598 00:30:09,596 --> 00:30:11,796 Speaker 2: also really worth going to places like this. 599 00:30:12,396 --> 00:30:14,076 Speaker 1: How far is it from you where you live. 600 00:30:14,236 --> 00:30:17,116 Speaker 2: It's about an hour flight flying is the best way 601 00:30:17,156 --> 00:30:20,076 Speaker 2: to get there, and that's from Nairobi, and there's direct flights, 602 00:30:20,236 --> 00:30:25,676 Speaker 2: and there's gorgeous hotels and guesthouses to stay at. Like truly, 603 00:30:25,756 --> 00:30:27,836 Speaker 2: you just feel like you're in a photo shoot all day. 604 00:30:28,116 --> 00:30:30,356 Speaker 2: Then the really anique thing about the island is that 605 00:30:30,396 --> 00:30:33,796 Speaker 2: there's no cars, so and there's not really like any 606 00:30:33,836 --> 00:30:36,076 Speaker 2: like street signs or anything, so you just kind of 607 00:30:36,076 --> 00:30:40,316 Speaker 2: walk around and there's there's this they're like meandering alleys 608 00:30:40,396 --> 00:30:42,556 Speaker 2: and you kind of find your way, you know. That's 609 00:30:42,596 --> 00:30:44,556 Speaker 2: the thing, Like you will get lost at some point, 610 00:30:44,636 --> 00:30:46,676 Speaker 2: but then you'll be like, oh, yeah, I recognize that, 611 00:30:47,156 --> 00:30:49,676 Speaker 2: I recognize that tree, or I recognize that donkey. There's 612 00:30:49,676 --> 00:30:52,036 Speaker 2: a lot of donkeys there, and you sort of sort 613 00:30:52,036 --> 00:30:53,796 Speaker 2: of just like find your way again. 614 00:30:54,396 --> 00:30:56,956 Speaker 1: I mean, there's so few opportunities to get lost anymore. 615 00:30:56,996 --> 00:30:57,436 Speaker 1: I love that. 616 00:30:57,636 --> 00:30:59,436 Speaker 2: But still feel safe, you know, it's like you're you 617 00:30:59,876 --> 00:31:02,476 Speaker 2: feel like you're still contained with this a small place, 618 00:31:02,516 --> 00:31:05,036 Speaker 2: like you really can't go very far. The donkey will 619 00:31:05,036 --> 00:31:11,476 Speaker 2: take you, donkey will feel yeah, in distinct There actually 620 00:31:11,516 --> 00:31:14,916 Speaker 2: is like a donkey rehabilitation site on the island as well. 621 00:31:15,316 --> 00:31:17,756 Speaker 2: Go and visit and see just you know, three like 622 00:31:17,796 --> 00:31:20,396 Speaker 2: a donkeys that are being rehabilitated and all sorts of 623 00:31:20,436 --> 00:31:24,356 Speaker 2: other things. It's pretty cool. So another African destination that 624 00:31:24,396 --> 00:31:27,636 Speaker 2: we've mentioned in our list is another city on the 625 00:31:27,676 --> 00:31:30,756 Speaker 2: other side of Africa, Tan Tier, Morocco, which is in 626 00:31:30,796 --> 00:31:34,836 Speaker 2: the very very far north of Morocco. I ended up 627 00:31:34,876 --> 00:31:37,396 Speaker 2: learning a lot about the colonial history of the city 628 00:31:37,476 --> 00:31:40,196 Speaker 2: and it used to be considered part of an international 629 00:31:40,316 --> 00:31:44,356 Speaker 2: zone and it was managed by consortium of other countries, 630 00:31:44,356 --> 00:31:47,636 Speaker 2: including like Italy and Spain, so it wasn't really considered 631 00:31:47,676 --> 00:31:50,316 Speaker 2: part of Morocco for a long time, and it has 632 00:31:50,636 --> 00:31:53,956 Speaker 2: a bit of an international edge to it. Now the 633 00:31:54,236 --> 00:31:57,436 Speaker 2: city is becoming a lot more connected to its Moroccan identity. 634 00:31:57,876 --> 00:32:00,476 Speaker 2: There's a lot of really creative Moroccans who are doing 635 00:32:00,596 --> 00:32:05,516 Speaker 2: amazing things, like they're running restaurants and cultural programs and 636 00:32:05,636 --> 00:32:08,516 Speaker 2: shops that are selling different types of home goods and 637 00:32:09,156 --> 00:32:12,956 Speaker 2: beauty products that are all Moroccan led companies, and a 638 00:32:12,996 --> 00:32:15,396 Speaker 2: lot of them are also run by young women. So 639 00:32:15,476 --> 00:32:17,876 Speaker 2: I think it's a really cool way to experience a 640 00:32:17,956 --> 00:32:21,716 Speaker 2: city that has historically had this international, very also very 641 00:32:21,836 --> 00:32:25,036 Speaker 2: artsy edge to it, but now that artsyness is being 642 00:32:25,116 --> 00:32:28,236 Speaker 2: led by a lot of creative young Moroccans. So it 643 00:32:28,276 --> 00:32:31,036 Speaker 2: seems like a place that I would be really excited 644 00:32:31,076 --> 00:32:33,636 Speaker 2: to go and kind of see both all Tangier and 645 00:32:33,716 --> 00:32:35,036 Speaker 2: the New Tangier combined. 646 00:32:35,476 --> 00:32:37,796 Speaker 1: Yeah, there are so many great cities on this list 647 00:32:38,036 --> 00:32:40,316 Speaker 1: this year. Are there any that you feel like we 648 00:32:40,356 --> 00:32:41,956 Speaker 1: didn't talk about that we should. 649 00:32:42,276 --> 00:32:45,076 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll give a pitch for San Diego. It's in 650 00:32:45,116 --> 00:32:48,516 Speaker 4: our list along with Tijuana. The two cities on both 651 00:32:48,556 --> 00:32:51,476 Speaker 4: sides of the border are the World Design Capital twenty 652 00:32:51,476 --> 00:32:54,916 Speaker 4: twenty four cities lots of design focused events and lots 653 00:32:54,916 --> 00:32:57,156 Speaker 4: of great architecture to see there, which is you know, 654 00:32:57,196 --> 00:32:59,596 Speaker 4: people think of San Diego and just beaches and tacos, 655 00:32:59,636 --> 00:33:02,276 Speaker 4: and obviously there's a huge city and there's lots to 656 00:33:02,316 --> 00:33:04,516 Speaker 4: sea in that regard, and I was there i think 657 00:33:04,556 --> 00:33:07,956 Speaker 4: earlier this year, driving an EV around for an EV 658 00:33:08,116 --> 00:33:11,916 Speaker 4: road trip for digital article, and so it's very easy 659 00:33:11,956 --> 00:33:13,916 Speaker 4: to fly in and rent an eving and not have 660 00:33:13,996 --> 00:33:17,196 Speaker 4: to have a gas power car. And some of the 661 00:33:17,276 --> 00:33:19,236 Speaker 4: design things are happening up in La Joya, which is 662 00:33:19,276 --> 00:33:23,316 Speaker 4: this lovely neighborhood north of the city on the cliffs. 663 00:33:23,676 --> 00:33:26,596 Speaker 4: You can go see kayaking in the caves. There's leopard 664 00:33:26,596 --> 00:33:30,156 Speaker 4: sharks in the waters and bright orange caralbody fish and 665 00:33:30,316 --> 00:33:34,396 Speaker 4: snorkeling and it's just beautiful, beautiful place. So it's hard 666 00:33:34,436 --> 00:33:35,596 Speaker 4: to recommend. 667 00:33:35,116 --> 00:33:37,476 Speaker 3: That I give a shout out to Philadelphia. 668 00:33:38,036 --> 00:33:40,996 Speaker 5: We put that in. We're all pretty excited. 669 00:33:40,676 --> 00:33:45,076 Speaker 3: About Philadelphia this year. People know Philadelphia. Obviously it's a 670 00:33:45,116 --> 00:33:49,036 Speaker 3: place for American history. Castitution was written there, but the 671 00:33:49,116 --> 00:33:53,596 Speaker 3: food scene is just on fire. It won more James 672 00:33:53,596 --> 00:33:56,556 Speaker 3: Beard Awards in twenty twenty three than any other city 673 00:33:56,556 --> 00:34:00,476 Speaker 3: for the chefs and restaurants, and they're diverse and just 674 00:34:00,596 --> 00:34:04,276 Speaker 3: so so interesting and varied, and it's a great reason 675 00:34:04,596 --> 00:34:07,796 Speaker 3: to rethink and revisit that city this year. Plus, the 676 00:34:07,836 --> 00:34:10,836 Speaker 3: arts scene has always been great, and there's amazing institutions 677 00:34:10,836 --> 00:34:12,796 Speaker 3: of art like the Philadelphia Museum of Art and the 678 00:34:12,836 --> 00:34:17,156 Speaker 3: Barnes Foundation. But also the gallery scene has long been 679 00:34:17,396 --> 00:34:18,036 Speaker 3: thriving and. 680 00:34:17,996 --> 00:34:18,596 Speaker 5: It still is. 681 00:34:18,636 --> 00:34:21,156 Speaker 3: They still do a First Friday every month where the 682 00:34:21,156 --> 00:34:24,716 Speaker 3: galleryes stay open that's actually expanded. It's near New York, 683 00:34:24,716 --> 00:34:26,476 Speaker 3: so I've been there a lot, so I'm very excited. 684 00:34:26,636 --> 00:34:28,476 Speaker 4: You know, when you said it has more James Beard 685 00:34:28,476 --> 00:34:31,236 Speaker 4: Award winners, I was reaching for the handclapping emoji to 686 00:34:31,476 --> 00:34:33,356 Speaker 4: pop up on the I think I've spent too much 687 00:34:33,436 --> 00:34:34,556 Speaker 4: time on Microsoft teams. 688 00:34:36,676 --> 00:34:41,076 Speaker 2: I'll also give a shout to Toronto, which is I 689 00:34:41,236 --> 00:34:43,716 Speaker 2: did not know this that it is by many measures 690 00:34:43,756 --> 00:34:46,196 Speaker 2: the most diverse city in the world, even more so 691 00:34:46,316 --> 00:34:49,156 Speaker 2: than New York City and London. There are upwards of 692 00:34:49,196 --> 00:34:52,596 Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty languages spoken there and just this year. 693 00:34:52,956 --> 00:34:55,356 Speaker 2: One of the reasons why it became included on our 694 00:34:55,436 --> 00:34:58,596 Speaker 2: list this year is because they elected their first mayor 695 00:34:58,596 --> 00:35:01,996 Speaker 2: who's a woman of color, Olivia Chow, who has talked 696 00:35:01,996 --> 00:35:05,316 Speaker 2: a lot about diversity. And the piece takes you through 697 00:35:05,316 --> 00:35:08,516 Speaker 2: several of the neighborhoods where you can go to a 698 00:35:08,556 --> 00:35:11,236 Speaker 2: little to and have momos. You can go to Koreatown 699 00:35:11,636 --> 00:35:14,876 Speaker 2: and go, you know, seeing karaoke there. You can go 700 00:35:15,076 --> 00:35:17,676 Speaker 2: to a neighborhood where there's a lot of Somali people 701 00:35:18,116 --> 00:35:21,476 Speaker 2: and there's also similar to Philadelphia, there are also some 702 00:35:21,716 --> 00:35:25,636 Speaker 2: more high end gastronomical experiences to have, and also just 703 00:35:25,676 --> 00:35:28,316 Speaker 2: a lot of cultural events happening throughout the year. The 704 00:35:28,356 --> 00:35:31,796 Speaker 2: Caribbean Festival in August draws us I think a million people, 705 00:35:32,276 --> 00:35:35,116 Speaker 2: and then there's a Contemporary Arts night in October that's 706 00:35:35,116 --> 00:35:37,996 Speaker 2: an all night affair and just brings in Torontonians from 707 00:35:37,996 --> 00:35:38,636 Speaker 2: all stripes. 708 00:35:38,916 --> 00:35:41,876 Speaker 1: Amazing, and we're going as a company in March. I'm 709 00:35:41,876 --> 00:35:42,516 Speaker 1: so excited. 710 00:35:42,716 --> 00:35:45,036 Speaker 2: I know, I've actually, like, you know, I feel like 711 00:35:45,076 --> 00:35:47,916 Speaker 2: the entire essay for that is basically just like my 712 00:35:48,036 --> 00:35:50,556 Speaker 2: to do list of all the different restaurants, neighborhoods, taking 713 00:35:50,556 --> 00:35:51,516 Speaker 2: it to check off. 714 00:35:52,796 --> 00:35:54,716 Speaker 3: It is we have much more to eat than we 715 00:35:54,756 --> 00:35:55,316 Speaker 3: have time for. 716 00:35:56,556 --> 00:35:59,116 Speaker 1: Unless we can extend or come early now. 717 00:35:59,116 --> 00:36:02,396 Speaker 5: Thus do all our things at the rest of lash first. 718 00:36:02,156 --> 00:36:03,356 Speaker 2: Dinner or second dinner. 719 00:36:03,556 --> 00:36:08,596 Speaker 4: Yeah, we had a great run of digital stories on 720 00:36:08,636 --> 00:36:12,596 Speaker 4: Toronto earlier this year as well. So you look at 721 00:36:12,636 --> 00:36:15,036 Speaker 4: the Toronto Guide on the website. We do this thing 722 00:36:15,116 --> 00:36:17,516 Speaker 4: with My Perfect Day and it's a local runs us 723 00:36:17,516 --> 00:36:19,476 Speaker 4: through how they'd spend a perfect day and won by 724 00:36:19,916 --> 00:36:24,156 Speaker 4: Tiffany Ramsubic, who runs Owed, which is Towanso's only black 725 00:36:24,156 --> 00:36:26,516 Speaker 4: owned boutique hotel. We've got a lot to do. We're 726 00:36:26,516 --> 00:36:28,156 Speaker 4: going to need some extra time because we don't want 727 00:36:28,196 --> 00:36:29,116 Speaker 4: to just be in meetings. 728 00:36:30,116 --> 00:36:35,236 Speaker 1: No, the meetings should be in the restaurants. I think, well, 729 00:36:35,236 --> 00:36:38,156 Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about these urban destinations, arts and culture. 730 00:36:38,196 --> 00:36:40,996 Speaker 1: What about people who like to travel for nature or 731 00:36:41,036 --> 00:36:41,756 Speaker 1: to be outside. 732 00:36:41,916 --> 00:36:45,356 Speaker 2: Billy had briefly mentioned Bhutan. I think that Bhutan is 733 00:36:45,356 --> 00:36:49,196 Speaker 2: an amazing country. I have not been myself, but Kathleen 734 00:36:49,236 --> 00:36:51,716 Speaker 2: Rellahan she went last year and was one of the 735 00:36:51,716 --> 00:36:55,636 Speaker 2: first people to hike the newly restored trans Bhutan trail 736 00:36:56,036 --> 00:36:59,036 Speaker 2: that fell into disrepair in the sixties and just reopened 737 00:36:59,076 --> 00:37:02,716 Speaker 2: last year and now just this year Bhutan is lowered. 738 00:37:02,836 --> 00:37:07,356 Speaker 2: It's always had a tourist tax, so that covers, you know, 739 00:37:07,436 --> 00:37:10,436 Speaker 2: various things like lodging and a guy and whatnot. It's 740 00:37:10,516 --> 00:37:13,756 Speaker 2: recently lowered the tourist text to now one hundred dollars 741 00:37:13,836 --> 00:37:16,956 Speaker 2: a day in order to spur more tourism. And there's 742 00:37:16,996 --> 00:37:19,436 Speaker 2: also a lot of new hotels that have opened, as 743 00:37:19,476 --> 00:37:22,556 Speaker 2: well as the Transbutant Trail. So the Transbutan Trail goes 744 00:37:22,596 --> 00:37:25,196 Speaker 2: through the Boutanese countryside and you get to pass both 745 00:37:25,236 --> 00:37:28,876 Speaker 2: the stupas and temples and all types of small towns 746 00:37:28,876 --> 00:37:31,996 Speaker 2: and villages that were previously pretty much off limits entirely 747 00:37:32,076 --> 00:37:36,116 Speaker 2: to foreigners. So lots of really cool reasons to visit Bhutan. 748 00:37:36,356 --> 00:37:40,236 Speaker 2: It's also hugely conservation minded, so sixty percent of the 749 00:37:40,276 --> 00:37:44,116 Speaker 2: country must be under forest cover, and it's the first 750 00:37:44,196 --> 00:37:48,076 Speaker 2: carbon negative country in the world, so that's another cool 751 00:37:48,116 --> 00:37:50,036 Speaker 2: reason to visit. See how they did it. 752 00:37:50,396 --> 00:37:55,156 Speaker 6: Absolutely, yes, yes, we were all ready regular the clapping 753 00:37:55,196 --> 00:37:57,156 Speaker 6: hands of thank you. 754 00:38:00,756 --> 00:38:03,596 Speaker 2: One of our roundups that we have in the book 755 00:38:03,916 --> 00:38:08,116 Speaker 2: is classic spots that are potentially worth a revisit. One 756 00:38:08,116 --> 00:38:12,796 Speaker 2: of them is Machu Picchu, which is Peru's most popular 757 00:38:12,876 --> 00:38:16,036 Speaker 2: destination with good reason. I mean, Machu Picchu is a 758 00:38:16,236 --> 00:38:20,396 Speaker 2: brilliant feat of Incan engineering. The Sacred Valley, though more generally, 759 00:38:20,636 --> 00:38:23,996 Speaker 2: is just it's one of the prettiest places in the 760 00:38:24,036 --> 00:38:28,436 Speaker 2: world in my opinion, and Intrepid Tours has recently opened 761 00:38:28,476 --> 00:38:31,556 Speaker 2: up a new hike that takes people to be able 762 00:38:31,596 --> 00:38:35,116 Speaker 2: to see Machu Picchu but also see lesser visited sides 763 00:38:35,196 --> 00:38:38,316 Speaker 2: of the Sacred Valley. So it's called the Quarry Trail, 764 00:38:38,556 --> 00:38:43,036 Speaker 2: and they're able to visit older Incan towns and also 765 00:38:43,156 --> 00:38:46,076 Speaker 2: just see some waterfalls and some other sites that were 766 00:38:46,076 --> 00:38:49,476 Speaker 2: previously a bit more off limits. So definitely, I love 767 00:38:49,516 --> 00:38:53,276 Speaker 2: the idea of revisiting a classic destination, but with a 768 00:38:53,316 --> 00:38:54,236 Speaker 2: bit of a twist on it. 769 00:38:54,796 --> 00:38:56,676 Speaker 4: I would say, if you like your outdoors with a 770 00:38:56,716 --> 00:38:59,596 Speaker 4: glass of wine, then head to Uruguay. This year we 771 00:38:59,636 --> 00:39:02,436 Speaker 4: had a lovely piece from Julia Buckley who wrote about 772 00:39:02,436 --> 00:39:06,556 Speaker 4: this region called Maldonado. It's a coastal region. I think 773 00:39:06,596 --> 00:39:09,956 Speaker 4: it's the next one along from montevide and kind of 774 00:39:09,996 --> 00:39:12,156 Speaker 4: notice but anyway, it's very much the up and coming 775 00:39:12,196 --> 00:39:15,516 Speaker 4: wine region of the country. And there's a Somelia there 776 00:39:15,516 --> 00:39:18,196 Speaker 4: who's worked on a Mappa Delvino, which is a map 777 00:39:18,236 --> 00:39:20,356 Speaker 4: of all of the boutique vineyards in Uruguay, so you 778 00:39:20,396 --> 00:39:23,676 Speaker 4: can follow that trail and it just looks beautiful land 779 00:39:23,676 --> 00:39:27,996 Speaker 4: of al fresco food tastings and great red red wines. 780 00:39:28,036 --> 00:39:30,676 Speaker 4: And yeah, definitely added that to my list after working 781 00:39:30,676 --> 00:39:31,236 Speaker 4: on that piece. 782 00:39:32,156 --> 00:39:34,076 Speaker 1: Well, I'd love to just pivot a little bit more 783 00:39:34,076 --> 00:39:36,916 Speaker 1: broadly to kind of where we're traveling next year, how 784 00:39:36,916 --> 00:39:39,556 Speaker 1: we're traveling. You know, twenty twenty three, with such a 785 00:39:39,596 --> 00:39:43,436 Speaker 1: busy travel year, do you have any predictions for twenty 786 00:39:43,476 --> 00:39:44,036 Speaker 1: twenty four. 787 00:39:44,476 --> 00:39:47,436 Speaker 5: It's still going to be busy. That's not going away 788 00:39:47,436 --> 00:39:50,036 Speaker 5: anytime soon. But don't let that stop you. 789 00:39:50,676 --> 00:39:52,796 Speaker 3: I think that's one of the messages of our list 790 00:39:52,836 --> 00:39:56,796 Speaker 3: to you know, look to places off the mainstream path 791 00:39:57,316 --> 00:40:01,636 Speaker 3: for example, you know in Europe, Estonia and Bruno. In Africa, 792 00:40:01,876 --> 00:40:06,556 Speaker 3: Lamu and Tangier, and then also rethink places that may 793 00:40:06,596 --> 00:40:08,956 Speaker 3: be familiar to you, like a World or Toronto. There's 794 00:40:08,956 --> 00:40:11,636 Speaker 3: a actually there's another layer that we're trying to bring 795 00:40:11,676 --> 00:40:15,276 Speaker 3: to the surface. So maybe that will that will help 796 00:40:15,316 --> 00:40:19,836 Speaker 3: people avoid the goat track of the main masses of tourism. 797 00:40:19,996 --> 00:40:22,636 Speaker 4: Yeah, the busy places are just going to get busy 798 00:40:22,716 --> 00:40:27,316 Speaker 4: and climate will obviously play part, so be prepared for that. 799 00:40:27,356 --> 00:40:30,956 Speaker 4: In certain places, try and go shoulder season where you can. 800 00:40:31,396 --> 00:40:33,436 Speaker 4: You know, the pandemic was a big reminder that you 801 00:40:33,516 --> 00:40:35,316 Speaker 4: never know what's around the corner, so travel where you 802 00:40:35,396 --> 00:40:37,676 Speaker 4: can make the most of it, and that kitchen extension 803 00:40:37,716 --> 00:40:40,196 Speaker 4: on Newcock can wait and you get out there to 804 00:40:40,196 --> 00:40:41,076 Speaker 4: see the world. 805 00:40:41,636 --> 00:40:44,636 Speaker 1: Book your travel insurance. We'll link to our episode about 806 00:40:44,676 --> 00:40:48,556 Speaker 1: that well. I'd love to end this conversation with where 807 00:40:48,636 --> 00:40:50,676 Speaker 1: you are planning to go this year? Where you want 808 00:40:50,716 --> 00:40:52,036 Speaker 1: to go. It could be places on the list, it 809 00:40:52,076 --> 00:40:54,836 Speaker 1: could be other trips that you have planned. Where are 810 00:40:54,836 --> 00:40:55,756 Speaker 1: you editors going? 811 00:40:56,316 --> 00:40:59,196 Speaker 2: In part inspired by not our list, but a future 812 00:40:59,236 --> 00:41:03,836 Speaker 2: story in our previous issue, our Epic Trips issue Over 813 00:41:03,876 --> 00:41:07,356 Speaker 2: the Holidays, I'm going with my family to Oman, which 814 00:41:07,556 --> 00:41:09,956 Speaker 2: I'm really excited about. I'd know a bit about it, 815 00:41:09,996 --> 00:41:13,036 Speaker 2: but didn't really know just how diverse it was in 816 00:41:13,156 --> 00:41:15,796 Speaker 2: terms of the types of things that you can do there, 817 00:41:15,836 --> 00:41:20,836 Speaker 2: from snorkeling or scuba diving, to mountain climbing to visiting 818 00:41:21,316 --> 00:41:23,756 Speaker 2: the desert to of course like spending time in cities 819 00:41:23,796 --> 00:41:26,996 Speaker 2: and eating lots of delicious Middle Eastern food. So I'm 820 00:41:27,036 --> 00:41:28,876 Speaker 2: really excited to be able to do all of that, 821 00:41:28,916 --> 00:41:33,116 Speaker 2: and definitely was also additionally inspired by our future story, 822 00:41:33,116 --> 00:41:37,116 Speaker 2: which is absolutely gorgeous. The photographs as well, are just 823 00:41:38,276 --> 00:41:41,756 Speaker 2: breath taking. Some of these waddies, which are these big gorges, 824 00:41:42,116 --> 00:41:45,436 Speaker 2: very sand colored and then they have bright turquoise blue 825 00:41:45,476 --> 00:41:48,836 Speaker 2: water running through them. They just look like they're, i 826 00:41:48,836 --> 00:41:50,716 Speaker 2: don't know, out of a movie set or something like that. 827 00:41:50,716 --> 00:41:52,996 Speaker 2: They don't even look real well. 828 00:41:52,996 --> 00:41:55,356 Speaker 1: Link to that story as well, because it's such a 829 00:41:55,356 --> 00:41:55,836 Speaker 1: good one. 830 00:41:56,236 --> 00:41:57,236 Speaker 5: It is one of my favorite. 831 00:41:57,316 --> 00:42:00,276 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I should say the writing is amazing and 832 00:42:00,396 --> 00:42:02,996 Speaker 2: the photographs are just kind of add to it even 833 00:42:03,036 --> 00:42:04,836 Speaker 2: more so it's just like on both sides of it, 834 00:42:04,916 --> 00:42:07,556 Speaker 2: you're just like, Wow, this place is just other worlds. 835 00:42:07,596 --> 00:42:11,556 Speaker 1: Got to go Philly. How about you? What's your list 836 00:42:11,596 --> 00:42:12,356 Speaker 1: look like this year? 837 00:42:12,556 --> 00:42:17,556 Speaker 3: I'm heading to Kenya in February, so yeah, visits Tarca 838 00:42:18,036 --> 00:42:20,716 Speaker 3: and then see if I can also get to allow 839 00:42:20,756 --> 00:42:24,436 Speaker 3: move from our list. And I often will travel for 840 00:42:24,596 --> 00:42:27,836 Speaker 3: music or a like one random event, so Burno's on 841 00:42:27,836 --> 00:42:30,396 Speaker 3: my list. They have that free music festival in August 842 00:42:30,516 --> 00:42:33,796 Speaker 3: and cool and Manchester has a bunch of stuff going 843 00:42:33,836 --> 00:42:36,436 Speaker 3: on because they have also we were talking about arts 844 00:42:36,476 --> 00:42:41,836 Speaker 3: and culture, have opened several venues, including the UK's largest 845 00:42:41,956 --> 00:42:45,396 Speaker 3: entertainment basically concert venue is purpose built for music, and 846 00:42:45,396 --> 00:42:48,556 Speaker 3: so there's concerts there I want to see and I've 847 00:42:48,596 --> 00:42:51,916 Speaker 3: already got a couple on my list, including the citywide 848 00:42:52,036 --> 00:42:55,156 Speaker 3: what's it called. It's called the City of Floating Sounds 849 00:42:55,596 --> 00:42:59,716 Speaker 3: and it's an interactive symphony project where there's music throughout 850 00:42:59,756 --> 00:43:02,156 Speaker 3: the city of Manchester and then it'll guide you through 851 00:43:02,196 --> 00:43:05,756 Speaker 3: it and then back to this new theater space called 852 00:43:05,796 --> 00:43:08,636 Speaker 3: the Viva Studios at Factory International, which just opened this year, 853 00:43:08,636 --> 00:43:11,596 Speaker 3: and the reasons that the city's on our list and 854 00:43:11,636 --> 00:43:14,196 Speaker 3: then it'll end up there. So that's in June and 855 00:43:14,276 --> 00:43:15,476 Speaker 3: I want to go back for that. 856 00:43:15,516 --> 00:43:18,116 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Yeah that sounds I want to go to. 857 00:43:19,516 --> 00:43:21,876 Speaker 3: Come on second Company meeting. 858 00:43:21,996 --> 00:43:24,796 Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish. 859 00:43:24,516 --> 00:43:27,676 Speaker 4: I love your Manchester Peace, Billy how Obviously the city's 860 00:43:27,676 --> 00:43:30,196 Speaker 4: so well known for its music scene, but there's so 861 00:43:30,276 --> 00:43:32,996 Speaker 4: much more happening nowadays that people maybe not be aware of. 862 00:43:33,596 --> 00:43:35,756 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that was one of the reasons I 863 00:43:35,756 --> 00:43:37,516 Speaker 3: went because it had that music history, but I was 864 00:43:37,556 --> 00:43:41,436 Speaker 3: just floored by how much more there is, including amazing libraries, 865 00:43:41,636 --> 00:43:43,316 Speaker 3: but that's another episode. 866 00:43:44,116 --> 00:43:47,196 Speaker 1: Tim, Where will you be podcasting from the next. 867 00:43:47,076 --> 00:43:49,396 Speaker 4: Time, I'll be back in my office at home. My 868 00:43:49,516 --> 00:43:52,596 Speaker 4: travel calendar is looking quite light, considering I've been working 869 00:43:52,596 --> 00:43:55,756 Speaker 4: on this feature. I'm going to Palm Springs in January 870 00:43:55,836 --> 00:43:58,036 Speaker 4: and we have the trip to Toronto. But other than that, 871 00:43:58,076 --> 00:44:00,036 Speaker 4: I'm looking at a blank slate that's filling up with 872 00:44:00,076 --> 00:44:02,756 Speaker 4: other things, so I need to get the travels slotted in. 873 00:44:02,836 --> 00:44:04,356 Speaker 4: I'd love to go to Peru. I think there's a 874 00:44:04,396 --> 00:44:07,276 Speaker 4: direct flight from la and the idea of doing a 875 00:44:07,316 --> 00:44:09,036 Speaker 4: trail like the Quarry Trail really. 876 00:44:09,756 --> 00:44:13,036 Speaker 1: So yeah, we shall see. Would you take your kids? 877 00:44:13,036 --> 00:44:14,556 Speaker 1: Do you think? Are they still too young? 878 00:44:17,836 --> 00:44:18,396 Speaker 5: Very quick? 879 00:44:20,116 --> 00:44:22,076 Speaker 1: No, not even a moment of hiking. 880 00:44:23,796 --> 00:44:24,476 Speaker 4: And four year olds. 881 00:44:25,636 --> 00:44:26,796 Speaker 1: It doesn't sound fun to you. 882 00:44:27,676 --> 00:44:29,076 Speaker 4: We were going to We'll go back to England in 883 00:44:29,076 --> 00:44:30,796 Speaker 4: the summer, but we just bounced it back to the 884 00:44:30,836 --> 00:44:32,516 Speaker 4: next Christmas now and then. 885 00:44:33,396 --> 00:44:39,796 Speaker 1: Wow, I'm not looking for I look forward to seeing 886 00:44:39,796 --> 00:44:42,916 Speaker 1: how your slate fills up. Well, thank you so much. 887 00:44:42,916 --> 00:44:44,556 Speaker 1: I mean, the list is phenomenal. The work that you 888 00:44:44,596 --> 00:44:47,236 Speaker 1: did is really incredible, So thank you and thanks. I 889 00:44:47,236 --> 00:44:49,636 Speaker 1: feel very inspired to go to all twenty five and 890 00:44:49,756 --> 00:44:51,196 Speaker 1: twenty four. I think that's doable. 891 00:44:51,276 --> 00:44:54,556 Speaker 3: Right, where do you want to golett, I know what's 892 00:44:54,636 --> 00:44:55,156 Speaker 3: on your list? 893 00:44:55,276 --> 00:44:58,316 Speaker 1: Well, all of them. I mean Manchester the music aspect 894 00:44:58,396 --> 00:45:01,036 Speaker 1: sounds wonderful, Toronto is obvious, we're going to do that 895 00:45:01,276 --> 00:45:03,716 Speaker 1: as a company, and then I don't know. I feel 896 00:45:03,716 --> 00:45:07,756 Speaker 1: like Kenya would probably be the first one that I 897 00:45:07,796 --> 00:45:10,476 Speaker 1: would pick if I were just to go anywhere tomorrow. 898 00:45:11,236 --> 00:45:12,356 Speaker 2: That means welcome to Kenya. 899 00:45:12,476 --> 00:45:18,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Yes for this power when you come. No, 900 00:45:19,036 --> 00:45:26,556 Speaker 1: that's okay, I appreciate that. I'll just bring my solar charger. Hey, 901 00:45:26,676 --> 00:45:29,316 Speaker 1: it's Acelin again. If you enjoyed the episode and want 902 00:45:29,316 --> 00:45:32,156 Speaker 1: to hear more stories like this, follow Unpacked by Afar 903 00:45:32,276 --> 00:45:35,796 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite listening app.