WEBVTT - Leveraging Inclusion Beyond DEI 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:08.480 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to Bloomberg 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.920 Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.560 One of our guests, the Dean Dean Mao, came in 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:19.520 here and asked how long we'd been co hosting together. 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.720 This is a sad story, and it's fun. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:24.800 You laugh because it's always good to laugh. 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:26.160 Yeah, otherwise you cry. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.960 And the reason you're laughing is because we have a 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.360 long history of doing other show. You're filling in for 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:33.160 Carol now, but we have a history of doing other shows, 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:34.320 other shows that have been canceled. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.960 We used to have a daily streaming show, Quick Take 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.760 Stock Rest in Peace. Then we had a crypto show 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.640 to We had a crypto show, a weekly crypto show. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.400 What a blaze of glory? 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:47.960 Uh Crypto I RL. 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:48.520 Yeah. 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:50.280 Yeah, it was a great show. 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:53.320 It was a great show. What a weird time though, 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:55.640 to have a crypto show. We had it. Of course, 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.840 one of the events that happened was FTS collapsed, so 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:01.440 that was interesting to cover in real time. 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:02.520 It was the crypto winter. 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:04.680 Yeah, well it was the start of it, the start 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:06.959 of it. Yeah, for a while it was the crypto summer, 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:08.600 it was like Crypto on the Sun. 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:10.840 Well, that's kind of a perfect segue to get to 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:14.120 our next guest. Adam Sullivan is the CEO of Core Scientific. 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:17.160 The ticker is CORZ. And the reason why I say 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.720 that's the perfect segue is because this is a company 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.399 that's intimately familiar with the ups and downs of the 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.280 industry at once. For once, it was the at one 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:28.920 point it was the largest public bitcoin mining company by 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.800 computing power, but it went bankrupt back in December of 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.160 twenty twenty two. It's now emerged from bankruptcy. It's back 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:41.039 listed publicly again, but the company's going for something a 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:44.560 little different right now. Adam, welcome to Bloomberg Business Week. 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:46.080 How are you very well? 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:46.720 Thank you for having me on. 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.800 You still are doing bitcoin mining, but you're looking more 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.080 at the computing power to do other stuff right now. 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.960 You're absolutely right. So we're a digital infrastructure company at heart. 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.000 We've developed eight hundred megawats of infrastructure that allowed us 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.000 to be the largest bitcoin mining company for the past 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.600 three years, and now we're utilizing that infrastructure to be 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:04.640 one of the largest data center companies in North America. 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:07.760 Talk to us about the bankruptcy process and sort of 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:12.120 what you were able to do with the fresh start. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.040 It was a pretty tumultuous process, right, you know. I 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.880 came into the company about four months into the bankruptcy process, 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:21.639 and there was a big fight over the valuation of 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:25.320 the company because bitcoin is volatile. Bitcoin mining reterms of volatile. 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:27.120 So the valuation of the company that you have to 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.440 set four months before you come out of the bankruptcy 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.519 process is challenging. And so we came out with a 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.880 very unique capital structure that we've now solved for We 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.240 saw for it last August or this previous month, and 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:41.519 we've been able to clean up all of the litigation, 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:43.239 all of our balance sheet, and put ourselves in a 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.239 really strong position to execute on the h or the 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.080 high performance computing play that we have in front of us. 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.800 Now, can we talk a little bit more about bitcoin 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.079 mining and data centers because not to quote Harry Styles again, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:55.720 but it is a real sign of the times here, 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:00.000 and it's interesting. It sort of feels like how Facebook 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.040 became Meta, but now they're really in an AI company 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.359 and Meta is sort of an afterthought. I mean, how 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:09.400 do you identify as a business? Are you a bitcoin minor. 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:11.960 Is that how you introduce yourself or do you introduce 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:13.480 yourself first? With the data centers. 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.360 We're a digital infrastructure company, and so what we develop 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.640 is very application specific data centers. We've been developing them 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.800 for bitcoin mining facilities for the past seven years, and 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.960 now we're developing them now for specifically for high performance computing, 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:28.240 for artificial intelligence. 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.280 Why make that change. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:34.720 Well, artificial intelligence and high performance computing provides us with long, 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.800 steady contracts with large counterparties. So we just signed twelve 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:41.120 year contracts that total more than six point seven billion 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.400 dollars in revenue over the next twelve years. So it 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.160 really takes away the volatility and provides us the opportunity 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.960 to make countercyclical investments into bitcoin mining. 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.520 How much of your revenue now comes from bitcoin mining? 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:54.760 Nearly all of it does today, And so. 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:56.840 Even though you signed these contracts, this contract. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.120 These contracts are for delivering twenty twenty five and twenty 0:03:59.160 --> 0:03:59.640 twenty six. 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.280 So what's the ultimate goal in terms of portion of 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.080 revenue from bitcoin mining versus high performance computing. Yeah, so 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.240 if you can have that distinction. 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.160 Yeah, Well, we'll be developing these sites over the course 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.040 of twenty twenty five, in twenty twenty six, So as 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.000 we look forward to twenty twenty five, it's going to 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:22.040 be you know, a lot of high performance computing revenue, 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.280 but as we look at twenty twenty six twenty twenty seven, 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:26.920 it's going to be much more heavily weighted towards the 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:28.640 traditional data center revenue. 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:30.560 I want to talk a little bit more about the 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.440 mining piece in particular. Remind me when of the last 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:34.040 having was. 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:35.240 It was in April this year. 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:36.800 It was an April of this year. That feels like 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.000 a year ago, so it was an April on this year. 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.960 I mean, how do you handle the having as a miner? 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.120 Of course, for those listening who aren't super acquainted with 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.880 the language, of course, the having is basically when you 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.320 have to solve a lot of you know, puzzles and 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.120 computer problems, and then you get bitcoin as a reward 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.240 as a minor, and then that reward is cut in 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:00.719 half every four years. So I mean, how does that 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.200 actually impact your business? We talk about it all the 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.640 times in terms of the price impact, but from a 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:07.400 revenue standpoint, how do you handle that? 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.600 Yeah, So the expectation is that when blockerard gets cut 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.039 in half difficulty drops or how hard it is to 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.480 find a block in this previous having difficulty did not 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.160 really fall off, and so mining revenue did get cut 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.880 almost nearly in half in April in a single day. 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.960 And so what we saw over Q two was much 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.719 more challenged mining economics, and we handle it a little 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:30.680 bit differently than other companies. Because we developed our own 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.520 software stack, we're able to have much more flexible energy 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.279 contracts with our end providers, and so that provide us 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.680 an opportunity to actually have our costs only increase sixty 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.040 percent post having, whereas what you saw in the broader 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.119 market generally speaking about one hundred percent increase in cost 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:46.239 of mind, that's. 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.240 Really interesting, and I mean bitcoin, it's the actual price 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.400 itself has been interesting, and that it's been really boring. 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:54.760 I feel like we've been hovering around sixty thousand dollars 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.600 since basically the end of February's the. 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:00.000 Current the ETA after the ETA. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.080 Yeah, we got the ETFs and then we go up, 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.599 we go down, but really we're in the neighborhood of 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.400 sixty thousand dollars. What is the current break even level 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:09.960 when it comes to bitcoin price? 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.200 Yeah, so for us we announced in Q two our 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.360 break even bitcoin price was about twenty nine thousand dollars. 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:18.719 So you're having a great time. 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:20.600 Yeah, So we're still as long as the price is 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:22.120 above twenty nine thousand, right. 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.880 Well, the expectation is if bitcoin price fell, you'd see 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.880 difficulty come off the network or network hash rate drop, 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.960 and so you expect the break even price to then 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:33.599 drop in tandem with that. 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:39.320 I'm wondering about the infrastructure that you own and how 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:43.640 easy it is to switch that from bitcoin mining to 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.240 high performance computing. Is it impossible? 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.680 No, but it's not easy. It takes a very talented team. 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:51.839 So much of our team comes from the traditional data 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.120 center industry, and so the way our facilities were originally 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:58.120 constructed was with the idea in mind that we're going 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.320 to be a we're going to be able to some 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.960 of these facilities to traditional data centers in the future. 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.440 So our facilities look much more like powered shells with 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.040 the opportunity to convert it based on the end specifications 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:09.560 of the user. 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:13.320 You mentioned flexibility when it comes to power costs. This 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:18.320 is a huge determinant and how profitable a bitcoin minor 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.400 is because it is the main determinant. Yep, what do 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:23.040 you do for power? 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.600 We're entirely on grid, but we participate in multiple different 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.400 load programs that provide you know that it gives us 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.240 downtime of about one two three percent depending on the 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.000 depending on the time of year, but it's a significant 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:37.120 reduction in power costs. 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:38.280 What are the. 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.080 Politics there, Because I remember with a lot of the 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.960 bitcoin miners, something that we explored in cryptoiurl Rest and 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.560 Peace was of course that the miners came under a 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.960 lot of fire for the electricity usage. It feels like 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:55.480 data centers haven't quite experienced that same criticism, probably because 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.800 I feel like as a society we're all interested and 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:03.000 excited about the possibilities of AI. What are your thoughts there, Yeah, I. 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.480 Think both data centers and bitcoin miners have been underfire. 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.280 Data centers were under fire prior to the bitcoin miners 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.080 being an underfire, but I think where we sit today 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.800 is a lot more states and a lot more regulatory 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.040 bodies that are starting to understand the benefits of bitcoin mining, 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.200 and so it's actually provided a big opening for utilities 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.960 because utilities have to count data center demand against peak demand, 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.640 but bitcoin miners do not kind of against that peak demand. 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.560 We only have thirty seconds left. But make the case 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.760 for the benefits. People might be listening say, wait a second, 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.360 that benefits of bitcoin mining, like, I don't care about 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:35.000 an I don't see any benefits. What are the benefits. 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:38.280 The benefits allow new generation to come online even if 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.720 it's not economic to run one hundred percent of the time. 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.559 Bitcoin miners can take that base load, so that in 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.720 the five to ten percent or twenty percent of when 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:47.839 that power is actually needed, that can be supplied back 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.080 to the grid. Well, the bitcoin miners are paying for 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:51.480 the power the rest of the time. 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:54.480 Adam, good to see you. Good to see you, Thanks 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.880 for joining us on Bloomberg Business Week. Adam Sullivan is 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:01.360 CEO of Core Scientific cor Z is the ticker. He's 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:05.200 here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. Well, our next 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.840 guest spent more than thirty years at AT and T. 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.720 She ultimately rose to become the CEO of AT and 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:13.320 T Business. She was the first woman and first woman 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.720 of color CEO in the company's history. Now she's on 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:20.520 the boards of three m CSX and Franklin Covey. She's 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.640 a senior Fellow and abject professor at Northwestern's Kellogg School 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.200 of Management. Oh, and she's got a brand new book out. 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:31.240 It's called Lead Bigger, The Transformative Power of Inclusion. Please 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.079 to have with us An Chow here in our Bloomberg 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.000 Interactive Brokers studio and how are you welcome? 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:38.719 Thank you so much, Tim, it's great to be here 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:38.960 with you. 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.640 Hey, we got a great big chunk of time, so 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:43.160 we're going to get to the book in a few minutes. 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.840 But we'd be remiss, after more than thirty years in 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:47.880 the telecom business if we didn't talk a little bit 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.720 about what's going on out there, because it's kind of 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.200 wild with the news that you have. Verizon last week 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.559 announcing a deal for Frontier sort of getting more into 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.560 the broadband space. This deal was a little prizing to 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.640 me because I thought wireless was really the future that 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.640 these companies are going for. Fiber is so expensive to install, 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.200 to maintain, to get a tech out there to help 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.680 you hook it up to your home. What's going on 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:15.160 out there? 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:15.959 Yeah? 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.000 So, Tim, as you know, I've been out of the 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.000 industry for a couple of years, a. 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.400 Couple of years, but I'm sure you still follow it 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:23.040 a little bit right. 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:24.959 A little bit, a little bit, But what I would 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.760 say is that, you know, convergence is really where it's at. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.679 You know, as you think about the wireless network and 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:31.640 wireless capabilities. 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:32.440 Yes, I mean. 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.520 That's that's that's critical to the functioning of society, But 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:37.719 ultimately it all comes down to a fiber network, comes 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:39.400 down to a wired network as part. 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:40.120 Of that infrastructure. 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.200 So that's uh, you know, that's what I think. You 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.280 know we're seeing out there is that coming together and 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.199 you know, I'd love an opportunity to talk about this 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:50.040 leadership in general and you know, inclusion. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:51.959 Oh yeah, well, well well we're gonna we got a 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:53.360 lot of time, we're gonna we're gonna get to that. 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:57.760 But but but I just thought I thought that with 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.200 with how expensive fiber is and with the advanced that 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:05.080 we've made in wireless, moving forward, we'd see more wireless 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.240 nodes than you know, people digging fiber. Are you saying 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.199 that we're still going to be having fiber coming into 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.480 homes and businesses and not going to be going wireless? 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:13.120 Now what I'm saying. 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.320 What I'm saying is that the way that networks will 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:17.880 continue to evolve as they always have will be based 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.200 on the latest technologies, right, and the demands of the marketplace. Right. 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.400 Certainly, with the needs for. 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.440 Storage and the high capacity computing and the emergence of AI, 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.000 there will always be a need for networks and a 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.840 high capacity, high powered, you know, fast networks. 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.960 And so all I'm saying is that as the technology. 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.200 Evolves, that's where it will be, right And ultimately, if 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.760 you look at any network, right, a mobile network, it 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.839 includes stuff in the ground, it includes wired capabilities. That's 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:45.640 all I'm saying. And I'm sure you could have plenty 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:47.720 of other experts who could talk about costs in a 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:49.480 much more specific way than I could. 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.280 Well, I am curious to talk a little bit more 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.720 about AI. AI is in every conversation. We talk about 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.160 it all the time, How it relates to different industries. 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.360 Of course, mostly you know, we talk about it in 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.960 terms of the chip makers and sort of the picks 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.400 and shovels right now, maybe a little bit with the 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.000 iPhone given what we heard yesterday, how do you think 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.880 it'll affect AT and T in the industry of course 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:12.600 that they sit in. 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.320 Yeah, so, Katie, I wouldn't say that I'm the expert. 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.080 Right, right, just broadus strokes. 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:18.880 Yeah, so I mean I can talk about what I 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.400 think ABOUTI and how it will impact. 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.360 The need to be even more inclusive if you will, right. 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.800 And so what AI does, It helps us and gives 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.600 us as you know, as humans, as leaders, the opportunity 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:34.080 to actually advance our human skills, right, which means that 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:37.360 because AI will help us with more basic computing tasks, 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:41.520 help elevate our intelligence, no pun intended, pun intended, we 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.600 as leaders have now got to figure out what are 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:45.719 the kinds of skill sets we need to develop in 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.320 our people, what kind of talent we need to complement 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.080 and utilize those tools that are now just simply emerging 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.439 across every industry and every business In a way, so 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.679 the actual calling for bigger leadership is more important now 0:12:58.679 --> 0:12:59.800 today than it has ever been. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:00.439 Mm hmm. 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.079 Do you think about I'm just thinking about, like how 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.720 many things around our home we plug in and charge 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:14.800 and are connected to the network. Is is that do 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.040 we see you talk about convergence? Do we see more 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.840 and more individual items connected to the network? The Apple Watch? 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.800 For example, you're in a garment, but I'm pointing because 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:26.960 you do have a somewhat of a smart Watch. But 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:28.720 that's not that's not connected to the network, that's like 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:30.959 connected to your phone, right, Yeah, yeah, you can get 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:32.800 the Apple Watch connected to the network. You're you know, 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.960 you're paying more for for each each additional advice device 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:37.559 that you add on. Or are we going to see 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.520 a convergence within within hardware and we're going to see 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:42.400 fewer devices but doing more. 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:42.880 Yeah. 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:44.720 Again I'm not a hardware expert, but what I do 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.760 believe will happen is right, there is more And this 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.320 is really what AI and computing is all about. 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.320 It's about the data. It's about the intelligence. Right. 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:55.080 So, as we see a more need for data, whether 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.120 that's in how healthcare evolves, right, so the watch, fitness 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.520 and health, health monitoring, or in other aspects of you know, 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:06.280 monitoring your water levels or your utilities. These are all 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.280 things where if more data is more helpful to us 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.440 as a society, that innovation will occur. Right. There will 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.960 be more connected things and that will help generate you know, 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.120 more need for data, more need for computing, and more 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:19.440 need for connectivity. 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:21.480 Okay, so how how do you make sense of all 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:23.280 this data that is out there? 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:24.600 It makes sense? 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:26.320 Yeah, I mean how does a company make sense of 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:28.160 all this data? How does a leader make sense of 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.800 all this data? Because if you think about everything that's 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.360 monitored today, you have so many inputs. I mean, you 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.320 could probably as the CEO of a company, have an 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.400 understanding of when people are badging in, when people are 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.360 badging out, when they're more engaged, when they're not engaged. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.400 A lot of this has to do with how you 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.920 create a workforce that is aligned with what you want 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:48.640 to accomplish. 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.240 Yeah, absolutely, right, right, And so the first the first 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.520 part of biger leadership of inclusive leadership. And let me 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.520 first say what if what is inclusive leadership? It is 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.880 simply and leading bigger is simply about widening your person 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.880 to have greater performance and impact. That's all that is, right. 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.800 But the part of that widening of your perspective is 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:10.600 being able to handle and process even yourself as a human, 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.200 more data sources, right, surround yourself with more different people, 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.520 surround yourself with more different data sources, different different media 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.920 and otherwise, and that will be absolutely key as relates 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.840 to how to lead forward and you know, get ahead 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:25.080 of you know where you need to go. 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.000 Speaking of getting where you need to go, I'm always 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.560 so interested in people who spend almost their entire careers 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.560 at a single company, especially. I brought this up yesterday, 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:35.000 we did. 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.840 Yeah, we were speaking, of course, the former CEO of Dow. 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.040 Yeah, and he spent more. He spent thirty two years, 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.880 just like you did at DOO. But it's so hard 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.960 to find somebody early on in their career, except for Katie, 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:49.960 who spent their entire career at a single company. 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:51.040 Is that right, Bloomberg? 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.000 Yeah, yeah, Katie was born here. 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.800 Born in this building. I don't actually leave. Okay, okay, 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:56.400 I live here. 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:58.080 But you had a long way to go before thirty 0:15:58.120 --> 0:15:58.560 two years. 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.920 Yeah, got eight in the bath. I'm on my way. 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.760 But do you think that? And you teach school, You 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.000 teach business school students. So do you see that still 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:14.160 as a typical career path for somebody or do you 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.120 see them jumping around more? Yeah? 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.440 So, I do actually get this question quite frequently. Or 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.920 do we see the younger workforce, the emerging force, having 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:23.480 this idea that they're going to be in a place 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:24.720 for thirty plus years? Right? 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:26.160 The answer is absolutely not right. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.880 I mean, I think that the pace of change today 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.320 is nothing like we've ever seen it. I think that 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:35.200 there is a desire and a transparency for what opportunity 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.040 is out there in today's workforce. I happen to have 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.640 two gen Z daughters, so I spent yeah, yeah, I do. 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.440 I do and spend plenty of time with gen zers. 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:42.640 Right. 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.720 And what I'm so excited about, so hopeful about, is 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.960 the fact that they are even more courageous and bold 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:51.320 about what they want and what they don't want. 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:51.560 Right. 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.680 I know plenty of gen Zers who will only work 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.560 in a work environment that's hybrid as an example, right, 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:58.440 And that is a requirement. Do you rather not have 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.000 a job than hybrid? 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:01.400 Right? 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.160 And so that is something that as a old gen 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.920 x er I would have never I would have never 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.720 embraced right. I would have said, Hey, my job is 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.080 like my foremost thing. My job is necessary to have 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.200 the life I want to live, as opposed to knowing 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.760 what I wanted in my life and then having my 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.320 job fit that. So I don't think it's a paradigm, 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.600 Tim or Katie that long term loyalty. But what I 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:25.919 think that puts the pressure that puts on bigger leaders 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:28.960 is we have to we have to lead differently. 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:30.640 We have to evolve with the times, right, you. 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:34.520 Can't count on institutional knowledge that is indigenous over the decades. 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.280 And in fact, when you think about long term planning 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.320 from a strategic standpoint, you know, can we really predict 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.560 what's going to happen in five years? Yeah, let alone 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.280 five Right, So fundamentally the pace of everything has accelerated. 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.040