1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to Bloomberg 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio. 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 2: One of our guests, the Dean Dean Mao, came in 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: here and asked how long we'd been co hosting together. 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 3: This is a sad story, and it's fun. 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: You laugh because it's always good to laugh. 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, otherwise you cry. 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: And the reason you're laughing is because we have a 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: long history of doing other show. You're filling in for 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 2: Carol now, but we have a history of doing other shows, 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 2: other shows that have been canceled. 12 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 3: We used to have a daily streaming show, Quick Take 13 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 3: Stock Rest in Peace. Then we had a crypto show 14 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 3: to We had a crypto show, a weekly crypto show. 15 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 3: What a blaze of glory? 16 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: Uh Crypto I RL. 17 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 4: Yeah. 18 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a great show. 19 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 3: It was a great show. What a weird time though, 20 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 3: to have a crypto show. We had it. Of course, 21 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 3: one of the events that happened was FTS collapsed, so 22 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 3: that was interesting to cover in real time. 23 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: It was the crypto winter. 24 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, well it was the start of it, the start 25 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 3: of it. Yeah, for a while it was the crypto summer, 26 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 3: it was like Crypto on the Sun. 27 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: Well, that's kind of a perfect segue to get to 28 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 2: our next guest. Adam Sullivan is the CEO of Core Scientific. 29 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: The ticker is CORZ. And the reason why I say 30 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 2: that's the perfect segue is because this is a company 31 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: that's intimately familiar with the ups and downs of the 32 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 2: industry at once. For once, it was the at one 33 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: point it was the largest public bitcoin mining company by 34 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: computing power, but it went bankrupt back in December of 35 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. It's now emerged from bankruptcy. It's back 36 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 2: listed publicly again, but the company's going for something a 37 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: little different right now. Adam, welcome to Bloomberg Business Week. 38 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: How are you very well? 39 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 5: Thank you for having me on. 40 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: You still are doing bitcoin mining, but you're looking more 41 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: at the computing power to do other stuff right now. 42 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 5: You're absolutely right. So we're a digital infrastructure company at heart. 43 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 5: We've developed eight hundred megawats of infrastructure that allowed us 44 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 5: to be the largest bitcoin mining company for the past 45 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 5: three years, and now we're utilizing that infrastructure to be 46 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 5: one of the largest data center companies in North America. 47 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 2: Talk to us about the bankruptcy process and sort of 48 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 2: what you were able to do with the fresh start. 49 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 5: It was a pretty tumultuous process, right, you know. I 50 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 5: came into the company about four months into the bankruptcy process, 51 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 5: and there was a big fight over the valuation of 52 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 5: the company because bitcoin is volatile. Bitcoin mining reterms of volatile. 53 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 5: So the valuation of the company that you have to 54 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 5: set four months before you come out of the bankruptcy 55 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,519 Speaker 5: process is challenging. And so we came out with a 56 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 5: very unique capital structure that we've now solved for We 57 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 5: saw for it last August or this previous month, and 58 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 5: we've been able to clean up all of the litigation, 59 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 5: all of our balance sheet, and put ourselves in a 60 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 5: really strong position to execute on the h or the 61 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 5: high performance computing play that we have in front of us. 62 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 3: Now, can we talk a little bit more about bitcoin 63 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 3: mining and data centers because not to quote Harry Styles again, 64 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 3: but it is a real sign of the times here, 65 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: and it's interesting. It sort of feels like how Facebook 66 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 3: became Meta, but now they're really in an AI company 67 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 3: and Meta is sort of an afterthought. I mean, how 68 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 3: do you identify as a business? Are you a bitcoin minor. 69 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 3: Is that how you introduce yourself or do you introduce 70 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 3: yourself first? With the data centers. 71 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 5: We're a digital infrastructure company, and so what we develop 72 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 5: is very application specific data centers. We've been developing them 73 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 5: for bitcoin mining facilities for the past seven years, and 74 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 5: now we're developing them now for specifically for high performance computing, 75 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 5: for artificial intelligence. 76 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: Why make that change. 77 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 5: Well, artificial intelligence and high performance computing provides us with long, 78 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 5: steady contracts with large counterparties. So we just signed twelve 79 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 5: year contracts that total more than six point seven billion 80 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 5: dollars in revenue over the next twelve years. So it 81 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 5: really takes away the volatility and provides us the opportunity 82 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 5: to make countercyclical investments into bitcoin mining. 83 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: How much of your revenue now comes from bitcoin mining? 84 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 5: Nearly all of it does today, And so. 85 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: Even though you signed these contracts, this contract. 86 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 5: These contracts are for delivering twenty twenty five and twenty 87 00:03:59,160 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 5: twenty six. 88 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: So what's the ultimate goal in terms of portion of 89 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: revenue from bitcoin mining versus high performance computing. Yeah, so 90 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: if you can have that distinction. 91 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, we'll be developing these sites over the course 92 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 5: of twenty twenty five, in twenty twenty six, So as 93 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 5: we look forward to twenty twenty five, it's going to 94 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 5: be you know, a lot of high performance computing revenue, 95 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 5: but as we look at twenty twenty six twenty twenty seven, 96 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 5: it's going to be much more heavily weighted towards the 97 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 5: traditional data center revenue. 98 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 3: I want to talk a little bit more about the 99 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 3: mining piece in particular. Remind me when of the last 100 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 3: having was. 101 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 5: It was in April this year. 102 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 3: It was an April of this year. That feels like 103 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 3: a year ago, so it was an April on this year. 104 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 3: I mean, how do you handle the having as a miner? 105 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 3: Of course, for those listening who aren't super acquainted with 106 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 3: the language, of course, the having is basically when you 107 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 3: have to solve a lot of you know, puzzles and 108 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 3: computer problems, and then you get bitcoin as a reward 109 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 3: as a minor, and then that reward is cut in 110 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 3: half every four years. So I mean, how does that 111 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 3: actually impact your business? We talk about it all the 112 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 3: times in terms of the price impact, but from a 113 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 3: revenue standpoint, how do you handle that? 114 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, So the expectation is that when blockerard gets cut 115 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 5: in half difficulty drops or how hard it is to 116 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 5: find a block in this previous having difficulty did not 117 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 5: really fall off, and so mining revenue did get cut 118 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 5: almost nearly in half in April in a single day. 119 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 5: And so what we saw over Q two was much 120 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 5: more challenged mining economics, and we handle it a little 121 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 5: bit differently than other companies. Because we developed our own 122 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 5: software stack, we're able to have much more flexible energy 123 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 5: contracts with our end providers, and so that provide us 124 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 5: an opportunity to actually have our costs only increase sixty 125 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 5: percent post having, whereas what you saw in the broader 126 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,119 Speaker 5: market generally speaking about one hundred percent increase in cost 127 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:46,239 Speaker 5: of mind, that's. 128 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 3: Really interesting, and I mean bitcoin, it's the actual price 129 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 3: itself has been interesting, and that it's been really boring. 130 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 3: I feel like we've been hovering around sixty thousand dollars 131 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 3: since basically the end of February's the. 132 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: Current the ETA after the ETA. 133 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, we got the ETFs and then we go up, 134 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 3: we go down, but really we're in the neighborhood of 135 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: sixty thousand dollars. What is the current break even level 136 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 3: when it comes to bitcoin price? 137 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, so for us we announced in Q two our 138 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 5: break even bitcoin price was about twenty nine thousand dollars. 139 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 3: So you're having a great time. 140 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we're still as long as the price is 141 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: above twenty nine thousand, right. 142 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 5: Well, the expectation is if bitcoin price fell, you'd see 143 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 5: difficulty come off the network or network hash rate drop, 144 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 5: and so you expect the break even price to then 145 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 5: drop in tandem with that. 146 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: I'm wondering about the infrastructure that you own and how 147 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: easy it is to switch that from bitcoin mining to 148 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 2: high performance computing. Is it impossible? 149 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 5: No, but it's not easy. It takes a very talented team. 150 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 5: So much of our team comes from the traditional data 151 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 5: center industry, and so the way our facilities were originally 152 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 5: constructed was with the idea in mind that we're going 153 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 5: to be a we're going to be able to some 154 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 5: of these facilities to traditional data centers in the future. 155 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 5: So our facilities look much more like powered shells with 156 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 5: the opportunity to convert it based on the end specifications 157 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 5: of the user. 158 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 2: You mentioned flexibility when it comes to power costs. This 159 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: is a huge determinant and how profitable a bitcoin minor 160 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: is because it is the main determinant. Yep, what do 161 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: you do for power? 162 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 5: We're entirely on grid, but we participate in multiple different 163 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 5: load programs that provide you know that it gives us 164 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 5: downtime of about one two three percent depending on the 165 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 5: depending on the time of year, but it's a significant 166 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 5: reduction in power costs. 167 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 4: What are the. 168 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 3: Politics there, Because I remember with a lot of the 169 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 3: bitcoin miners, something that we explored in cryptoiurl Rest and 170 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 3: Peace was of course that the miners came under a 171 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 3: lot of fire for the electricity usage. It feels like 172 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 3: data centers haven't quite experienced that same criticism, probably because 173 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 3: I feel like as a society we're all interested and 174 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 3: excited about the possibilities of AI. What are your thoughts there, Yeah, I. 175 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 5: Think both data centers and bitcoin miners have been underfire. 176 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 5: Data centers were under fire prior to the bitcoin miners 177 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 5: being an underfire, but I think where we sit today 178 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 5: is a lot more states and a lot more regulatory 179 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 5: bodies that are starting to understand the benefits of bitcoin mining, 180 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 5: and so it's actually provided a big opening for utilities 181 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 5: because utilities have to count data center demand against peak demand, 182 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 5: but bitcoin miners do not kind of against that peak demand. 183 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 2: We only have thirty seconds left. But make the case 184 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: for the benefits. People might be listening say, wait a second, 185 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: that benefits of bitcoin mining, like, I don't care about 186 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: an I don't see any benefits. What are the benefits. 187 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 5: The benefits allow new generation to come online even if 188 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 5: it's not economic to run one hundred percent of the time. 189 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 5: Bitcoin miners can take that base load, so that in 190 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 5: the five to ten percent or twenty percent of when 191 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 5: that power is actually needed, that can be supplied back 192 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 5: to the grid. Well, the bitcoin miners are paying for 193 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 5: the power the rest of the time. 194 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 2: Adam, good to see you. Good to see you, Thanks 195 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: for joining us on Bloomberg Business Week. Adam Sullivan is 196 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 2: CEO of Core Scientific cor Z is the ticker. He's 197 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. Well, our next 198 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 2: guest spent more than thirty years at AT and T. 199 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 2: She ultimately rose to become the CEO of AT and 200 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: T Business. She was the first woman and first woman 201 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: of color CEO in the company's history. Now she's on 202 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: the boards of three m CSX and Franklin Covey. She's 203 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: a senior Fellow and abject professor at Northwestern's Kellogg School 204 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 2: of Management. Oh, and she's got a brand new book out. 205 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: It's called Lead Bigger, The Transformative Power of Inclusion. Please 206 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 2: to have with us An Chow here in our Bloomberg 207 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 2: Interactive Brokers studio and how are you welcome? 208 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Tim, it's great to be here 209 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 4: with you. 210 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 2: Hey, we got a great big chunk of time, so 211 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 2: we're going to get to the book in a few minutes. 212 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 2: But we'd be remiss, after more than thirty years in 213 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: the telecom business if we didn't talk a little bit 214 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: about what's going on out there, because it's kind of 215 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 2: wild with the news that you have. Verizon last week 216 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 2: announcing a deal for Frontier sort of getting more into 217 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 2: the broadband space. This deal was a little prizing to 218 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: me because I thought wireless was really the future that 219 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: these companies are going for. Fiber is so expensive to install, 220 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 2: to maintain, to get a tech out there to help 221 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: you hook it up to your home. What's going on 222 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 2: out there? 223 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 4: Yeah? 224 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 6: So, Tim, as you know, I've been out of the 225 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 6: industry for a couple of years, a. 226 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: Couple of years, but I'm sure you still follow it 227 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: a little bit right. 228 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 6: A little bit, a little bit, But what I would 229 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 6: say is that, you know, convergence is really where it's at. 230 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 6: You know, as you think about the wireless network and 231 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 6: wireless capabilities. 232 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 4: Yes, I mean. 233 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 6: That's that's that's critical to the functioning of society, But 234 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,719 Speaker 6: ultimately it all comes down to a fiber network, comes 235 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 6: down to a wired network as part. 236 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 4: Of that infrastructure. 237 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 6: So that's uh, you know, that's what I think. You 238 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 6: know we're seeing out there is that coming together and 239 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 6: you know, I'd love an opportunity to talk about this 240 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 6: leadership in general and you know, inclusion. 241 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, well well we're gonna we got a 242 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 2: lot of time, we're gonna we're gonna get to that. 243 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: But but but I just thought I thought that with 244 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 2: with how expensive fiber is and with the advanced that 245 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 2: we've made in wireless, moving forward, we'd see more wireless 246 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: nodes than you know, people digging fiber. Are you saying 247 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 2: that we're still going to be having fiber coming into 248 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 2: homes and businesses and not going to be going wireless? 249 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 4: Now what I'm saying. 250 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 6: What I'm saying is that the way that networks will 251 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 6: continue to evolve as they always have will be based 252 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 6: on the latest technologies, right, and the demands of the marketplace. Right. 253 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 4: Certainly, with the needs for. 254 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 6: Storage and the high capacity computing and the emergence of AI, 255 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 6: there will always be a need for networks and a 256 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 6: high capacity, high powered, you know, fast networks. 257 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 4: And so all I'm saying is that as the technology. 258 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 6: Evolves, that's where it will be, right And ultimately, if 259 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 6: you look at any network, right, a mobile network, it 260 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 6: includes stuff in the ground, it includes wired capabilities. That's 261 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 6: all I'm saying. And I'm sure you could have plenty 262 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 6: of other experts who could talk about costs in a 263 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 6: much more specific way than I could. 264 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 3: Well, I am curious to talk a little bit more 265 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 3: about AI. AI is in every conversation. We talk about 266 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 3: it all the time, How it relates to different industries. 267 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 3: Of course, mostly you know, we talk about it in 268 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 3: terms of the chip makers and sort of the picks 269 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 3: and shovels right now, maybe a little bit with the 270 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 3: iPhone given what we heard yesterday, how do you think 271 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 3: it'll affect AT and T in the industry of course 272 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 3: that they sit in. 273 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, so, Katie, I wouldn't say that I'm the expert. 274 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 3: Right, right, just broadus strokes. 275 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 6: Yeah, so I mean I can talk about what I 276 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 6: think ABOUTI and how it will impact. 277 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 4: The need to be even more inclusive if you will, right. 278 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 6: And so what AI does, It helps us and gives 279 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 6: us as you know, as humans, as leaders, the opportunity 280 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 6: to actually advance our human skills, right, which means that 281 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 6: because AI will help us with more basic computing tasks, 282 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 6: help elevate our intelligence, no pun intended, pun intended, we 283 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 6: as leaders have now got to figure out what are 284 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,719 Speaker 6: the kinds of skill sets we need to develop in 285 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 6: our people, what kind of talent we need to complement 286 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 6: and utilize those tools that are now just simply emerging 287 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 6: across every industry and every business In a way, so 288 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 6: the actual calling for bigger leadership is more important now 289 00:12:58,679 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 6: today than it has ever been. 290 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 291 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 2: Do you think about I'm just thinking about, like how 292 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 2: many things around our home we plug in and charge 293 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: and are connected to the network. Is is that do 294 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: we see you talk about convergence? Do we see more 295 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 2: and more individual items connected to the network? The Apple Watch? 296 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: For example, you're in a garment, but I'm pointing because 297 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 2: you do have a somewhat of a smart Watch. But 298 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 2: that's not that's not connected to the network, that's like 299 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 2: connected to your phone, right, Yeah, yeah, you can get 300 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: the Apple Watch connected to the network. You're you know, 301 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 2: you're paying more for for each each additional advice device 302 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 2: that you add on. Or are we going to see 303 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: a convergence within within hardware and we're going to see 304 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: fewer devices but doing more. 305 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 306 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 6: Again I'm not a hardware expert, but what I do 307 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 6: believe will happen is right, there is more And this 308 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 6: is really what AI and computing is all about. 309 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 4: It's about the data. It's about the intelligence. Right. 310 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 6: So, as we see a more need for data, whether 311 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 6: that's in how healthcare evolves, right, so the watch, fitness 312 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 6: and health, health monitoring, or in other aspects of you know, 313 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 6: monitoring your water levels or your utilities. These are all 314 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 6: things where if more data is more helpful to us 315 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 6: as a society, that innovation will occur. Right. There will 316 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 6: be more connected things and that will help generate you know, 317 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 6: more need for data, more need for computing, and more 318 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 6: need for connectivity. 319 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 2: Okay, so how how do you make sense of all 320 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 2: this data that is out there? 321 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 4: It makes sense? 322 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean how does a company make sense of 323 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: all this data? How does a leader make sense of 324 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 2: all this data? Because if you think about everything that's 325 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 2: monitored today, you have so many inputs. I mean, you 326 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 2: could probably as the CEO of a company, have an 327 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 2: understanding of when people are badging in, when people are 328 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 2: badging out, when they're more engaged, when they're not engaged. 329 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 2: A lot of this has to do with how you 330 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 2: create a workforce that is aligned with what you want 331 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: to accomplish. 332 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, right, right, And so the first the first 333 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 6: part of biger leadership of inclusive leadership. And let me 334 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 6: first say what if what is inclusive leadership? It is 335 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 6: simply and leading bigger is simply about widening your person 336 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 6: to have greater performance and impact. That's all that is, right. 337 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 6: But the part of that widening of your perspective is 338 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 6: being able to handle and process even yourself as a human, 339 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 6: more data sources, right, surround yourself with more different people, 340 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 6: surround yourself with more different data sources, different different media 341 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 6: and otherwise, and that will be absolutely key as relates 342 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 6: to how to lead forward and you know, get ahead 343 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 6: of you know where you need to go. 344 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: Speaking of getting where you need to go, I'm always 345 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 2: so interested in people who spend almost their entire careers 346 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 2: at a single company, especially. I brought this up yesterday, 347 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: we did. 348 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, we were speaking, of course, the former CEO of Dow. 349 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he spent more. He spent thirty two years, 350 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: just like you did at DOO. But it's so hard 351 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 2: to find somebody early on in their career, except for Katie, 352 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 2: who spent their entire career at a single company. 353 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 3: Is that right, Bloomberg? 354 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Katie was born here. 355 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 3: Born in this building. I don't actually leave. Okay, okay, 356 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 3: I live here. 357 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 4: But you had a long way to go before thirty 358 00:15:58,120 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 4: two years. 359 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, got eight in the bath. I'm on my way. 360 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 2: But do you think that? And you teach school, You 361 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: teach business school students. So do you see that still 362 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: as a typical career path for somebody or do you 363 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 2: see them jumping around more? Yeah? 364 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 6: So, I do actually get this question quite frequently. Or 365 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 6: do we see the younger workforce, the emerging force, having 366 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 6: this idea that they're going to be in a place 367 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 6: for thirty plus years? Right? 368 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 4: The answer is absolutely not right. 369 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 6: I mean, I think that the pace of change today 370 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 6: is nothing like we've ever seen it. I think that 371 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 6: there is a desire and a transparency for what opportunity 372 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 6: is out there in today's workforce. I happen to have 373 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 6: two gen Z daughters, so I spent yeah, yeah, I do. 374 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 6: I do and spend plenty of time with gen zers. 375 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 7: Right. 376 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 6: And what I'm so excited about, so hopeful about, is 377 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 6: the fact that they are even more courageous and bold 378 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 6: about what they want and what they don't want. 379 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: Right. 380 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 6: I know plenty of gen Zers who will only work 381 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 6: in a work environment that's hybrid as an example, right, 382 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 6: And that is a requirement. Do you rather not have 383 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 6: a job than hybrid? 384 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: Right? 385 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 6: And so that is something that as a old gen 386 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 6: x er I would have never I would have never 387 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 6: embraced right. I would have said, Hey, my job is 388 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 6: like my foremost thing. My job is necessary to have 389 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 6: the life I want to live, as opposed to knowing 390 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 6: what I wanted in my life and then having my 391 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 6: job fit that. So I don't think it's a paradigm, 392 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 6: Tim or Katie that long term loyalty. But what I 393 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 6: think that puts the pressure that puts on bigger leaders 394 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 6: is we have to we have to lead differently. 395 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 4: We have to evolve with the times, right, you. 396 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 6: Can't count on institutional knowledge that is indigenous over the decades. 397 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 6: And in fact, when you think about long term planning 398 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 6: from a strategic standpoint, you know, can we really predict 399 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 6: what's going to happen in five years? Yeah, let alone 400 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 6: five Right, So fundamentally the pace of everything has accelerated. 401 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 3: I'm so glad you brought up the hybrid point because 402 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 3: I do think that. I mean, you think about the 403 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 3: effects of the pandemic, maybe some of the lasting changes 404 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 3: is that hybrid structure. I mean, in my own life, 405 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 3: I think about the time. I still spend a lot 406 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 3: of time at the office, But I used to be here, 407 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 3: you know, eight to six pm every single day, and 408 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 3: I don't do that anymore. 409 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:08,719 Speaker 2: But you're still getting those hours out. 410 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 3: Oh yeah no, But I go home and I work. 411 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 3: I have to be here every day because you know, 412 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 3: I'm on air. But and then a lot in my 413 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 3: personal life, my friends, I have a lot of friends 414 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 3: who move jobs for that hybrid flexibility. They're all millennials. 415 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 3: But I when you think about leaders today, I always 416 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 3: wonder is it sustainable? I mean, do you think that 417 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 3: those gen zers will fall in line? Or do you 418 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 3: think that, you know, leadership at big companies today will 419 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 3: have the desire to be flexible and meet them where 420 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 3: they are. 421 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 6: Yeah, well, you know, the very last chapter of my 422 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 6: book is actually called flexibility. 423 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 3: Right there you go. 424 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 6: I fundamentally believe that flexibility is here to stay, right, 425 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 6: I personally cannot stand the moniker of return to the 426 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 6: office or back to the office. Has anybody have actually 427 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 6: found a way to go back to the past. 428 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 2: No, I dock in back to the future. 429 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 4: That's right. I actually with the DeLorean and a right, 430 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 4: you can do it. 431 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 2: That's capacity. 432 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 6: Lost capacity can do anything. Jigga wats however possibly have? 433 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 6: So But on that note, right, what leaders have to 434 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 6: do now? And nobody has been taught this right, how 435 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 6: to lead in this way. Nobody's been taught how to 436 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 6: deal with a workforce that is geographically disperse, you know, 437 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 6: a combination of different modalities which could change every single 438 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 6: day who is in a work site versus. 439 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 4: Who is not. So, in my view, flexibilities here to stay. 440 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 6: It's here to stay because we want as leaders access 441 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 6: to the best talent possible. We want access to as 442 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 6: diverse a customer base as possible. 443 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 4: We want access to. 444 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 6: The most diverse, compelling investor base right. And as you know, 445 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 6: as every generation emerges, every generation. 446 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 4: Becomes more and more diverse in terms of what. 447 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 6: Their needs are, you know, the clarity of their of 448 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 6: their purpose. And it's incumbent upon us as leaders to 449 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 6: figure out how to operate this way. But what I 450 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 6: will say is that you have to now treat the 451 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 6: office or presence with great intention. You cannot just assume 452 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 6: that because people are present physically in the office, that 453 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 6: they're more productive, that they're happier, that they're more engaged. 454 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 6: And I think that's one of the fundamental differences because 455 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 6: Katie one, who was eight to six, we were right 456 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 6: when we were when it. 457 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 4: Was pre COVID, we were all in the office. Engagement 458 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 4: was a fact because that's the only way we knew 459 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 4: how to work. 460 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 2: Sit tight, because we're gonna do some news and then 461 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 2: we're gonna come back more with Ann Chow. She's the 462 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 2: author of the new book The Lead Bigger, The Transformative 463 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: Power of Inclusion. She spent more than thirty years at 464 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 2: AT and T. She's on three boards of publicly traded companies. 465 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 2: That's next on Bloomberg BusinessWeek. I want to get right 466 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: back to an Chow. She's former CEO at AT and 467 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: T Business. She spent more than thirty years at the company. 468 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: She ultimately rose to become the CEO. She was the 469 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 2: first woman and first woman of color CEO in the 470 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 2: company's history. She's on three boards of She's on boards 471 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 2: of three publicly traded companies, and she's a senior fellow 472 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 2: and adjunct professor at Northwestern's Calo School of Management. She's 473 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,719 Speaker 2: got a brand new book out. It's called Lead Bigger, 474 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 2: The Transformative Power of Inclusion. So let's talk a little 475 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 2: bit about that, because four years ago we'd be sitting 476 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 2: here having a completely different conversation about inclusion, DEI, the 477 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 2: way people identify themselves, the way people bring themselves to work. 478 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 2: But just in the last few months, we've seen this 479 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: huge shift. We got Ford coming out recently and saying, 480 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 2: along with other companies including Harley Davidson, Lowe's Tractor Supply, 481 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 2: Deer Brown Foreman, essentially pulling back from pledges to commit 482 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 2: to diversity, equity and inclusion. Many of them were made 483 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 2: in the wake of the George Floyd murder, and many 484 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 2: of these companies have been targeted online to sort of 485 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 2: roll back these DEI initiatives, How do you view that 486 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 2: as a leader? 487 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 6: So as a leader, you know, I will tell you 488 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 6: tim that and I appreciate the question that I think 489 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 6: DEI has largely been misunderstood. 490 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 4: I personally don't like the acronym because it, you. 491 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 6: Know, in some circles it means one thing, when it's 492 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 6: actually three different things with it's diversity, equity, and inclusion. 493 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 4: You know. 494 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 6: My view of that is that diversity is just simply 495 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,959 Speaker 6: a reality of the modern world. Right, every generation that 496 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 6: comes forward becomes more and more diverse. There are many 497 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 6: different dimensions to diversity, you know. Equity is just about fairness, 498 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 6: and inclusion is the topic. As to what I wrote 499 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 6: a book, right, inclusion means wide being your perspective by 500 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 6: including everyone that you know that is in your ecosystem, 501 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 6: everyone to have better performance and better impact. So where 502 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:44,239 Speaker 6: I think DEI is misunderstood is that it has in 503 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 6: some circles been now interpreted as issues of representation based 504 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 6: on gender and race alone at the cost of everything else, 505 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 6: which is not at all what each of those words is, 506 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 6: nor what inclusive leadership is about, you know, and I'm 507 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 6: sure sure that those companies you know had reasons for 508 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 6: making the decisions they did. I'm often asked advice on 509 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 6: this topic from leaders across different businesses, and this is 510 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 6: the advice that I give them, which is, you have 511 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 6: to start with understanding what the purpose of your business 512 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 6: is as well as what your value system is. You 513 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 6: also have to be very very clear about how performance 514 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 6: is measured. And your stakeholders are not all stakeholders at 515 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 6: any time are you know, are created equal And one 516 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 6: of your jobs as a leader is to mitigate and 517 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 6: manage risk, and so no doubt there are reasons. 518 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 4: For why those companies made those decisions. And I think 519 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 4: that each of us as leaders has just got to 520 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 4: be prepared for us. We serve a set of stakeholders. 521 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 6: That we intentionally make sure that we message and care 522 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 6: for the other stakeholders who may be impacted in those decisions. 523 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 2: And it's a pretty nuanced and pretty nuanced communications coming 524 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 2: from different companies. So I want to clarify what Ford did. Recently, 525 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 2: Jim Farley wrote in a note to employees that the 526 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: external and legal environment related to political and social issues 527 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 2: cantinues to evolve and the company no longer will speak 528 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 2: publicly on polarizing issuesbout the day. 529 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 3: Well to that point, I mean, this conversation that we're 530 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 3: currently having in society around DEI and this pullback that 531 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 3: we're seeing from certain companies, it kind of reminds me 532 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 3: about ESG, for example. I mean, there was a whole 533 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 3: kerfuffle over ESG a couple of years ago. And you 534 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 3: think about these three letter acronyms. You could look at 535 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 3: these different conversations and say, it's inevitable that these sort 536 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 3: of conversations become politicized, and it's hard for the c 537 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 3: suite to navigate around that. Do you think it's inevitable 538 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 3: this politicization? 539 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 4: Don't? I don't necessarily? Right? 540 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 6: In my view, leadership is a choice that we all make. 541 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 6: Leadership has no gender, it has no age, it has 542 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 6: no color, it has no politics, that has no religion, right, 543 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 6: And leadership is all about rallying and aligning up a 544 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 6: group of people to go get something done, to do work. 545 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 6: That's what it has always been. You know, I've never 546 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 6: been a you know, sort of political kind of person. 547 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 6: I do think that acronyms are problematic, right, I mean, 548 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 6: certainly I come from an industry where acronyms are all 549 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 6: over the place, and well, you know, I think we 550 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 6: as humans also have this need to simplify oversimplify things, right, 551 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 6: And so you know, inclusion is so much more than 552 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 6: just representation. It's about an environment that you create to 553 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 6: wind your perspective, to look at new data sources, to 554 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 6: you know, surround yourself with different people, to advance your business, 555 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 6: to innovate, to grow right, to build a contemporary workforce 556 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 6: that will compete not. 557 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 4: Just today but tomorrow. 558 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 6: It's all of those things that make really just good 559 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 6: business sense, right. And are gender and race included in 560 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 6: that scope, Yes, but it's not just that. 561 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 2: Do you think companies should speak out on issues that 562 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 2: are not related to their businesses? 563 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 4: I do not. I do not. 564 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 6: I feel very strongly that companies and leaders need to 565 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 6: stay focused on their purpose, on their values, and on 566 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 6: their stakeholders right and how performance is being measured. And 567 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 6: you know that doesn't mean that there are issues. If 568 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 6: there are issues out there that are that are causing you, 569 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 6: or they that they directly go against your purpose and 570 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 6: your values, then you are in fact compelled to right 571 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 6: because you're staying focused on that business purpose. I don't 572 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 6: necessarily feel that leaders should feel compelled to wade into 573 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 6: every water, you know, every step of waters. It's a 574 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 6: very it's a very personal decision I think to do. So, 575 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 6: you know, each one of us are faced with that. 576 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 6: Even though on social media profiles it's always views on 577 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 6: my own, when you're a leader of an organization, a team, 578 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 6: a big company, your views. 579 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 4: Are not just your own. 580 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: So how do you balance that with some of the 581 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 2: contingents issues that are important to voters? For example, like 582 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: I don't know different regulations around a woman's right to 583 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 2: choose in different states, Like how do you how do 584 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 2: you figure that out in a presidential election? 585 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 4: Yeah? 586 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, So what what I know I will be listening 587 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 6: for tonight, you know, is I will be listening for 588 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 6: bigger leadership. I will be listening for leadership that you know, 589 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 6: focuses on individual rights but also focuses on what is 590 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 6: right for our country as relates to policies and programs. 591 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 6: And like I said, leadership has no politics, all right, 592 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 6: leadership just is. I will also say that leadership is 593 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 6: about leading all the people, not just the people who 594 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 6: may agree with you. And I think that's what inclusive 595 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 6: leadership is all about. So that's what I'm going to 596 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 6: be listening for tonight. 597 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 2: And chall former CEO of AT and T Business. She's 598 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 2: also the author of the new book Lead Bigger, The 599 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 2: Transformative Power of Inclusion. She joins us here in the 600 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. 601 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim 602 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio and television. 603 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 2: It is Bloomberg Business Week. That is Katie Grafeld in 604 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 2: for Carol Masser. I'm Tim STANEVIEK Katie, what are you 605 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 2: doing tonight at eight o'clock? 606 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 3: I told you already. I'm taking magnesium. I'm taking my miltonin. 607 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 3: I will watch a little bit of our coverage. Of course, 608 00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 3: the debate doesn't start until nine pm, but we're going 609 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 3: to have some great coverage on Bloomberg TV and Radio. 610 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 3: Klee Lines, Joe Matthew, David Gura. What an all star lineup? 611 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 2: That was perfect? 612 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 3: Thanks. 613 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 2: It was very enthusiastic promo. 614 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was the best part was that I'm 615 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 3: being sincere. 616 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 4: I am excited. 617 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 2: I'm going to be watching it on the Bloomberg Business 618 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,479 Speaker 2: as you should. Hey. Speaking of politics, Kamala Harris proposing 619 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 2: a tenfold increase in the small business tax deduction for 620 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,719 Speaker 2: startup costs. It's a new weapon in her arsenal as 621 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: she vised with Donald Trump to show voters who can 622 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 2: best assuage their anxieties about the economy. Trump, for his part, 623 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 2: has touted lowering the corporate tax rate to fifteen percent. 624 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: But what is a small business owner to do? What 625 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: are they thinking? To get an understanding of how they're 626 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 2: thinking about the election, we bring in Elizabeth Gore. She's 627 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: president and CEO of the fintech platform Hello Alice. It's 628 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 2: a fintech platform for small business owners. Elizabeth joins us 629 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: from San Francisco. Elizabeth, help us understand the visibility that 630 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: you have at Hello Alice into how small business owners 631 00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: are thinking about politics. 632 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 7: Well, how do y'all? I'll probably take a millotone in two, 633 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 7: so I'm with you. I get it look ed, Hello Elise. 634 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 7: We serve one point five million small business owners with 635 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 7: credit loans and different access to capital, and we talk 636 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 7: to them all the time about what they're thinking, what 637 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 7: they're worried about. And look, seventy percent of them have 638 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 7: not decided who they're voting for, and it's based off 639 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 7: what they're going to hear about policies around taxes, inflation, immigration. However, 640 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 7: ninety five percent of them have said they are going 641 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 7: to vote, and that is indicative of previous elections. Small 642 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 7: business owners have a high propensity of voting. So this 643 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 7: is a population that both candidates need to pay attention to. 644 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 3: And it's interesting. I mean that you know, a significant 645 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 3: portion have not yet decided who they're going to vote for, 646 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 3: but they're definitely going to vote. I mean, that's sort 647 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 3: of rais'es mistakes on tonight's debate. What will small business 648 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 3: owners be looking for in terms of topics that they 649 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 3: want to hear about from Kamala Harrison Donald Trump. 650 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 7: Look, there are thirty three million small businesses in this country. 651 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 7: We have five times not opening than the history of 652 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 7: our countries. Is a really critical population. Never one thing 653 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 7: they want to know is taxes, taxes, taxes, taxes, and 654 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 7: remember we're not just federal we're looking at state elections, 655 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 7: local elections as well. The next is inflation. Cost of 656 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 7: goods matters to these companies. Finally, we think about immigration 657 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 7: in other terms, but hiring is a massive still ordeal 658 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 7: post COVID to small business owners. So how they feel 659 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 7: immigration impacts that is going to be critical. 660 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 2: Interesting do you have have you done any research on 661 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 2: how the small business owners feel after a change at 662 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 2: the top of the ticket. 663 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 7: You know, it's interesting the undecided was much higher and 664 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 7: now it's gone lower. So you know, we don't know 665 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 7: which way that that is pushing, but it definitely was 666 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 7: a change. 667 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 2: So okay, so before Biden dropped out, undecided were about 668 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 2: twenty five percent, right, And yeah, what are undecided now? 669 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,479 Speaker 7: So we're at thirty percent? 670 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 3: Interesting, so things have changed. 671 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 7: And look, here's what's really important about that is they 672 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 7: are really listening tonight of what are those policies And 673 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 7: you said corporate earlier. There is a big delineation between 674 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 7: corporate and small business, So that's what they're really listening to. 675 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 7: Those key words. The vast majority of jobs in this 676 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 7: country are coming from businesses with less than thirty employees. 677 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 7: So that's what I'm paying attention to and what our 678 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 7: customers are paying attention to. 679 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really nice reminder that, I mean, small 680 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 3: businesses are the lifeblood of this economy. And I want 681 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 3: to go back to the point you made about immigration. 682 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 3: Of course that a lot of small business owners will 683 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 3: be focused on immigration, and of course we are fresh 684 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 3: off the last month's jobs report, the August jobs report, 685 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 3: There's been a lot of questions about the labor market. 686 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 3: What view do you have into how small business owners 687 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 3: are feeling about labor availability right now? 688 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 7: Yeah, well, on one one hand, it's exciting because over 689 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 7: seventy percent of them are hiring right now, so you know, 690 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 7: that gets me excited that there is growth in the market. 691 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 7: On the flip side, they are not finding the labor 692 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 7: they need. We're still in these quote hiring wars in 693 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 7: their own neighborhoods. And I'm talking about the folks that 694 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 7: serve y'all every day, your coffee shops, your dry cleaners, 695 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 7: your auto mechanics. They've got to have labor in order 696 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 7: to do their jobs for you. So this is a 697 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 7: major topic. 698 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 2: You are president and CEO of a business. Have you 699 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 2: have you decided who you're going to vote for? 700 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 7: I have, I have, But I am always listening and 701 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 7: pushing till the day of to make sure that both 702 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 7: campaigns are going to understand the policies that they need 703 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 7: to step forward. 704 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: Do you feel like they're understanding the policies that effects 705 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 2: I think they're owners. 706 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 7: There's a difference between understanding and listening. Right There's been 707 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 7: massive shifts at the SBA. There's been lawsuits and litigation 708 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 7: around Squire, diversity and supply chain, and so we have 709 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 7: a lot to do. Capital is very expensive right now 710 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 7: for small business owners. It is not accessible to everyone 711 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 7: who needs it. I'm a big fan of US veterans 712 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 7: and they're having a really hard time getting credit and 713 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 7: loans right now. So there is a lot to talk 714 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 7: about and a lot to do. 715 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 2: Elizabeth, really appreciate you taking the time and joining us 716 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 2: on Bloomberg BusinessWeek. Elizabeth Gore is president and CEO of 717 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: the Fintech platform for Small business Owners. Hello Alex, Hello Alice. 718 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 2: Excuse me. She joins us from San Francisco.