Speaker 1: Sorry, did we do that.
Speaker 2: Scrubbing in with Becca Tilly and Tanya rap An iHeartRadio Podcast.
Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, we are scrubbing it.
Speaker 2: Scrub a dub dub.
Speaker 3: We have royalty in the o R, so we're just gonna.
Speaker 1: Get right to it.
Speaker 4: Seven year anniversary, Like one of the chances we're doing
Speaker 4: today are.
Speaker 3: Actual seven years scrubbing in anniversary.
Speaker 2: That's crazy.
Speaker 5: It is kismet and it actually like makes me emotional
Speaker 5: that we have the two of you because obviously we've
Speaker 5: had Camilla. We love you like you are fan favorite,
Speaker 5: but we've been like feral over getting you Jessica Capshaw.
Speaker 3: So this is like really just seven am be careful
Speaker 3: what you wish for.
Speaker 5: This is like a seven year anniversary gift gift gift gifts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no seriously.
Speaker 2: Well that makes me so happy. That makes me so happy,
Speaker 2: That makes my like my heart warm.
Speaker 3: So we left off.
Speaker 1: Teeser.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yes, the teaser on If you haven't listened,
Speaker 4: go listen to part on this episode.
Speaker 1: Don't call it what it is?
Speaker 3: Yes, And.
Speaker 4: The question I ended that part one with was have
Speaker 4: you kissed a woman since your Gray's Anatomy? Since as
Speaker 4: Arizona Robbins.
Speaker 2: I love that that was a teaser question, and when
Speaker 2: you asked it, you looked straight into my soul.
Speaker 6: So much.
Speaker 1: I was like.
Speaker 2: Me, think about its obvious. No, I have not, but
Speaker 2: I really had to think about it. The way she
Speaker 2: was looking at me, I know, I was like, does
Speaker 2: she know something I don't know? She does know, so
Speaker 2: so the answer is no, you little tease doing the teasers.
Speaker 2: I was. I love so much what you what you
Speaker 2: both just said. I feel so I feel like it's
Speaker 2: a gift to be in the space because seven years ago,
Speaker 2: certainly I didn't even know. I don't even know that
Speaker 2: I knew what a podcast was seven years ago.
Speaker 5: I really really makes me feel better because we've been
Speaker 5: trying to get you for a minute.
Speaker 2: I never I never knew people have been keeping us apart.
Speaker 5: I know I did like to tread the line of
Speaker 5: like bandgirl, but we try to keep it professional.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's like professional do.
Speaker 2: A great the point, but I really did not know.
Speaker 2: But what I do know is that my first experience
Speaker 2: of you two was also doing something that I had
Speaker 2: not really done, which was doing a live event with
Speaker 2: the Grays cast in Los Angeles, and I found the
Speaker 2: event a little bit overwhelming because it was sort of
Speaker 2: in my mind, it was the tipping point of when
Speaker 2: Grays started getting watched in the rewatch world.
Speaker 7: People were streaming, yeah, the streaming world, and so it
Speaker 7: it enumerated the exposure of the show and just how
Speaker 7: many were watching it and therefore walking around the world
Speaker 7: knowing who was in it, and it was live, and
Speaker 7: I had never witnessed in person the passion that people
Speaker 7: felt for the show.
Speaker 2: So I'd had the like, oh, I likes Anatomy, or
Speaker 2: known that it did well, or like seen things on
Speaker 2: message boards or whatever it was, but I had never
Speaker 2: seen in person how the show made people feel. And
Speaker 2: so it was it was an insane event. But getting
Speaker 2: to the point, which was that we had the Q
Speaker 2: and A and we saw the people and the people
Speaker 2: were coming on the stage and everything else. But there
Speaker 2: was this moment where there were escalators. I remember there
Speaker 2: being near an escalator, this.
Speaker 3: Carpet was that where it was.
Speaker 2: I remember we were there with the whole cast, But
Speaker 2: I remember being closest to Jesse Williams at the time,
Speaker 2: and I remember just being like, like just I truly
Speaker 2: stayed very close to him because I was so intimidated
Speaker 2: by the whole experience because it was just so vibrant
Speaker 2: and like right there and such heightened emotions. And I
Speaker 2: remember seeing you too, with your bright and shiny faces
Speaker 2: and your enthusiasm, and you're just like and you were
Speaker 2: dressed in scrubs. Yeah, and you guys were so excited,
Speaker 2: and I remember thinking, hold on in my brain, like, Jessica,
Speaker 2: hold on to that, like, hold on to that bright,
Speaker 2: shiny excitement. That's what this is. It's not intimidating, it's
Speaker 2: not that. It's just this is joyous, like be here
Speaker 2: for the joy. So you guys, you all brought the
Speaker 2: joy to that that time, and I felt like that
Speaker 2: was a gift to me because it actually, I was
Speaker 2: unclear at that moment. I sort of felt again intimidated.
Speaker 2: It with a lot of people, a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: and you all, seeing you all sort of like snapped
Speaker 2: the picture into focus for me and helped me understand
Speaker 2: why we were there and what we were doing.
Speaker 3: Wow, that is that is nice.
Speaker 4: We showed up in scrubs and everyone had their microphones and.
Speaker 5: Their their lights, like their mic flags, like everybody we
Speaker 5: were with, like all the press, like cameras and stuff
Speaker 5: when we have our iPhones.
Speaker 4: Mismatched blue scrubs were like, they're probably who are these girls,
Speaker 4: But y'all were so one, so kind to us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt like we were like I remember what
Speaker 2: I was wearing.
Speaker 4: I remember your outfit, my favorite outfit of the day.
Speaker 1: I remember that.
Speaker 5: I'm actually really sad because remember Kevin McKidd was there,
Speaker 5: and we hated him at the time, like we don't
Speaker 5: want to talk to his character. Yeah, we didn't like
Speaker 5: his characters. We were like, we don't want to talk
Speaker 5: to Owen Hunt. But I'm sad because I feel like
Speaker 5: a misopportunity because you like.
Speaker 4: You've got him on the show to I told him,
Speaker 4: told him, and I told him.
Speaker 5: I was like, I have hated you for I don't
Speaker 5: remember how many years since he came.
Speaker 1: On sind On Christina.
Speaker 5: Since he cheated and when Teddy cheated on him, I
Speaker 5: was like, good for her, you deserve it. And then
Speaker 5: we had him on the podcast and he was so
Speaker 5: lovely and so nice that I was like, I love
Speaker 5: Owen Hunt now and he turned me into a lover
Speaker 5: and it felt weird, but I shift.
Speaker 1: The shift character for like hearing like we hate you,
Speaker 1: and he's like, it's cool, I'm on the pot.
Speaker 5: Like I love it was so game, he like did
Speaker 5: not he didn't take it personal at all.
Speaker 2: I remember early Owen Hunt was also just always so intense. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and still it's like that.
Speaker 1: I think Owen's just intense. He's more intense you in
Speaker 1: the musical episode.
Speaker 2: How intense he was.
Speaker 6: Going to be?
Speaker 2: My can we know? As your question was, did But
Speaker 2: his part of it was like, you know, it was
Speaker 2: the one where he was like him and Kyler and
Speaker 2: they were operating.
Speaker 4: It was like, oh, dont breathe, just breathe just actually
Speaker 4: look look.
Speaker 1: What did he send the kids?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I love it, Kevin.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was a lot. It was just like
Speaker 2: very It was like, yeah, he was like the Jets
Speaker 2: of the Sharks.
Speaker 4: It was like, I just need to know what y'all
Speaker 4: did when you got the news that you were doing
Speaker 4: a musical episode.
Speaker 1: I want to know this too.
Speaker 4: I would never about three people who were thriving excited
Speaker 4: about it.
Speaker 1: You were one of them.
Speaker 2: No, No, there's so many things I can say.
Speaker 8: Well, I have a little bit of a puppy dog
Speaker 8: energy in the sense that when someone like gets excited
Speaker 8: about something, I'm like, yeah, would we do you would
Speaker 8: do that?
Speaker 2: Okay, that's okay. That's so I was a little puppy
Speaker 2: dog and I was like, were you in a musical episode?
Speaker 2: Of course we're doing a musical episode. That makes perfect sense,
Speaker 2: does it? I don't know, but yeah, for sure, we're
Speaker 2: going to do that. And so I was a little
Speaker 2: bit that energy. I just had a baby, so I
Speaker 2: was a little bit also hormonal, tired and hormonal energy.
Speaker 2: And then once I went to the coaching session where
Speaker 2: we were to be assessed to figure out who was
Speaker 2: going to say which song, I think I had higher
Speaker 2: expectations for how many songs I was going to get
Speaker 2: than I was actually given. And so it was maybe
Speaker 2: a little disappointing when we found out that I, you know,
Speaker 2: saying one line.
Speaker 3: It was impactful though, let me tell you it was impactful.
Speaker 2: Thank you. And then I was like the chorus for
Speaker 2: how to Save Life? So you know, I mean I was.
Speaker 1: Out.
Speaker 3: I don't think you realized.
Speaker 5: So Becka has been watching Grey's Anatomy since she was
Speaker 5: like in high school, like she's been she's been watching.
Speaker 3: Like Live like to Grays.
Speaker 5: I started watching when I was I don't know how,
Speaker 5: maybe ten years ago, and I binge like the first
Speaker 5: nine or ten seasons in like a matter of months.
Speaker 3: And so I got to the musical episode and she
Speaker 3: was like.
Speaker 1: Get ready, ready, ready for watch it.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I love this episode.
Speaker 4: I want to take an edible and watch I want
Speaker 4: to watch it with a like taking with the.
Speaker 2: Higher consciousness.
Speaker 4: Rand experiencing that because it felt like a fever dream,
Speaker 4: totally sober.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm gonna say something I've I've never
Speaker 2: said before. Do you remember Seene where CALLI and are
Speaker 2: driving and I.
Speaker 3: Like falls on the orby the finger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the finger wiggle. We had a choreographer for that.
Speaker 9: With the finger for the fingers, they didn't all literally
Speaker 9: had a choreographer on set to help me time out
Speaker 9: my finger going back and forth.
Speaker 2: And I was so afraid of perform by the way,
Speaker 2: I was just lip syncing, but I I was I
Speaker 2: even singing or was it actually I don't even.
Speaker 3: Singing.
Speaker 1: I definitely think it was a lipsing situation.
Speaker 2: My no joke choreographer for that finger.
Speaker 3: Well, I loved it. I think the episode deserved more
Speaker 3: to be honest, more respect.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, someone sitting to a small minority.
Speaker 3: I'm in the minority with this.
Speaker 5: But I feel like I really loved Arizona Robbins, Like
Speaker 5: to me, she was she was me like I was,
Speaker 5: like if I were.
Speaker 1: In a the lesbian thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, my lesbian thing, but I would be like skating
Speaker 5: around like that would like I loved your character like
Speaker 5: I loved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still here. But you know it's so crazy
Speaker 2: and super nerdy?
Speaker 9: Is that? So?
Speaker 2: Did I? And I love that because that means I've
Speaker 2: done my job. Well, I am, but I'm really not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you guys are so actually real.
Speaker 4: I always thought you were, but I'm realizing that you're sure.
Speaker 3: You give me beca energy which is not Arizona.
Speaker 1: Mine is the queer bar.
Speaker 3: Yeah, interesting enough.
Speaker 2: But you know, I I think that as the character
Speaker 2: came together, there were so many things that I mean,
Speaker 2: there's so many things that I do that I that
Speaker 2: that she does and behaviors that are are similar to me.
Speaker 2: But but no, we're very different.
Speaker 1: Positivity is the same. You're extremely positive.
Speaker 2: I am. I am. I really tried it. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: that it is. It's actually I don't. It's actually not effort.
Speaker 2: It's it's really mindset I had. I was telling people
Speaker 2: I have this. I had this wild epiphany there to
Speaker 2: day where I realize and it's where we really learn
Speaker 2: a lot from each other, I find because she represents
Speaker 2: a different perspective and I not only want it, I
Speaker 2: actually genuinely need it in my life. But I found,
Speaker 2: or I realize that very often when people are hurtful,
Speaker 2: or when someone hurts my feelings, or when I see
Speaker 2: other people hurt other people's feelings that I love and
Speaker 2: I have some investment in it, I almost instantly go
Speaker 2: to throwing love at that person and feeling sort of
Speaker 2: bad for them. Like when people hurt people, I'm like, oh, man,
Speaker 2: like what must you be feeling like that? You need
Speaker 2: to do that.
Speaker 4: I do not, but because most people just take it
Speaker 4: and they're like, I'm hurt, they don't. They don't even
Speaker 4: have the awareness to go, oh, they're hurting, so let
Speaker 4: me show them love.
Speaker 1: That's a practice, It's it's just.
Speaker 2: An automatic for me. It just happens, and I'm I
Speaker 2: do love that about me, and sometimes it's not right,
Speaker 2: you wish and I'm like, they're also any.
Speaker 3: Are you a Scorpio? Oh no, you're a sagittarius.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, well I have a little scorpio, but I
Speaker 1: was raised.
Speaker 5: By Okay, yeah, yeah, that's interesting. It's a similar dynamic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna ask because we talked about this on.
Speaker 3: Scorpio.
Speaker 1: You're a scorpio and what are you cancer? Okay? What's
Speaker 1: your rising though? Is that the one you're perceived as.
Speaker 1: I'm a libra.
Speaker 3: I'm a Leo.
Speaker 1: So that's why I'll get along because she's a leo.
Speaker 3: She's a leo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, I'm leo.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Before we went on part one of this, go listen
Speaker 4: and call it what it is, we y'all asked how
Speaker 4: we met and then I said she wasn't super warm,
Speaker 4: and then you had a huge reaction.
Speaker 1: To that I did, and we didn't get to hear
Speaker 1: the story about it. So I want to hear now
Speaker 1: and you can take your sides and let us know you.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm going to be with.
Speaker 1: Interesting. Here's what happened, and then Jessica can tell her
Speaker 1: lies after. Okay. In I was my first year on
Speaker 1: the show. I was not even a series regular. I
Speaker 1: was recurring, and I didn't know that like food trucks,
Speaker 1: you know once in a while came on to set
Speaker 1: and were a gift from somebody, right, Like they were
Speaker 1: treating everybody.
Speaker 2: To like a food truck. Right.
Speaker 1: So this food truck was on set, came in and
Speaker 1: it was a Burger truck and on the little signage
Speaker 1: on it said like, thank you cast and crew from
Speaker 1: Shonda Rhymes. And I was like, oh my god, that's
Speaker 1: very cool and sweet and it's Shonda. Well, I need
Speaker 1: to like I'm appreciative, Like I'm gonna take a picture
Speaker 1: of this and I'm gonna tweet it out and be like,
Speaker 1: this is so awesome that Shanda did this, like thank you,
Speaker 1: And that's what I did. And then I went and
Speaker 1: I sat down in my little cast chair, and why
Speaker 1: don't you explain what happened?
Speaker 3: Hey, what's wrong with that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? What is wrong with that?
Speaker 2: Well? In the picture that she hook, there might have
Speaker 2: been a Jessica cap shot on her on her on
Speaker 2: her lunch break food break. Yeah, yea with a.
Speaker 1: Heartily dressed burger. She was motivating a burger in the picture.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, but she had like she was
Speaker 1: like shoving it down. She was deep throating a burger
Speaker 1: and I was not aware, and.
Speaker 2: You know, you might have been eaten in one bite perhaps,
Speaker 2: And Jessica Stormed became the dragon that I am, and
Speaker 2: she was like inside dragon to me, and I was like,
Speaker 2: she's inflated. Honestly, every time she tells the story.
Speaker 3: Story save for.
Speaker 2: The screws.
Speaker 1: Pointed and she literally roared like you have to ask permission?
Speaker 1: Are you host a picture? Don't you? What are you
Speaker 1: new here? Yeah? And from then on it was icy.
Speaker 1: I thought she was strategic a sabotage. Yeah, she thought
Speaker 1: it was sabotage. You guys, we call her burger Gate.
Speaker 2: Burger sabotage Hersha and nannies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw that.
Speaker 3: Mom here.
Speaker 2: You know, well, you don't really have to be aside
Speaker 2: because look how it ended up. I think that there's
Speaker 2: a lot of reasons why. But it's actually for me
Speaker 2: because it makes me think of something I haven't thought
Speaker 2: of before. And you you touched on it in the
Speaker 2: other podcast, the one that's on our.
Speaker 1: I don't call it what it is, which is you
Speaker 1: were wrong.
Speaker 2: No, that's what I was gonna say. What I was
Speaker 2: gonna say is this, I think that I was very
Speaker 2: much living in you know whatever that was, which was
Speaker 2: probably ten years ago, fifteen years ago, was I was
Speaker 2: still learneder the impression that you had to be perfect
Speaker 2: right right, that anything that was out there of you
Speaker 2: needed to be perfect, perfect, or at least needed to
Speaker 2: be what you wanted to be like it had to
Speaker 2: be polished. Yeah, but I mean or if your if
Speaker 2: your image was not polished, then not polished. But it
Speaker 2: had to be consistent with whatever it was that you
Speaker 2: were right with the fan saw, Yeah, and I think
Speaker 2: that there was a there was a little bit more.
Speaker 2: It was I was a little slower to understanding that
Speaker 2: the belonging and the connection piece hinges on being able
Speaker 2: to be real. And sometimes you have just gone back
Speaker 2: from having a baby and you're on set with your
Speaker 2: gorgeous new costar who you don't know very well, and
Speaker 2: a Burger truck comes and you put a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff on that double double cheeseburger.
Speaker 1: Then you eat and someone takes a picture of it.
Speaker 2: Well, by the way, no one could find the picture.
Speaker 2: It's probably never existed, or it got existed, and then
Speaker 2: it did.
Speaker 1: It definitely existed after you yelled, she probably deleted it
Speaker 1: right away.
Speaker 2: I didn't pointed yell.
Speaker 1: It was maybe minutes I walked from the picture and
Speaker 1: within like ten minutes it was like it was like
Speaker 1: a tornado.
Speaker 2: But here's how I'm telling you, what did I like?
Speaker 1: What did you feel? Because your news still wanted to
Speaker 1: I remember turning to my interns, and you know what's
Speaker 1: really funny, this is kind of the dynamic on the show, right,
Speaker 1: being like, oh my god, she's so mad, I don't
Speaker 1: know what to do. I don't know what to say.
Speaker 1: And it was like very much like intern attending like
Speaker 1: you screwed, you know.
Speaker 2: But that's probably a really good example of what I'm
Speaker 2: a call back to what something I just admitted that
Speaker 2: I do, which is like I was likely hurt.
Speaker 3: Ye, then I had something to do and I.
Speaker 1: Gave it to show because it was equal.
Speaker 2: Rights for all, and so I think that I I
Speaker 2: definitely definitely think that that's what was happening.
Speaker 1: And it was tough though, because we we it was.
Speaker 1: I knew that she thought that I was like not
Speaker 1: just like a typical like actress of like ha haha,
Speaker 1: I'm coming in and yeah.
Speaker 2: Can down the house, you know. And in fairness, I
Speaker 2: had worked with a lot of people who were like, yeah,
Speaker 2: so I had like lived experience, right, it was a
Speaker 2: fair potential assessment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's a different.
Speaker 5: It was like such a different because I feel like
Speaker 5: twelve years ago when I started on the morning show
Speaker 5: and like the dynamic there was like not what it
Speaker 5: is now. It's it was not women helping women. It
Speaker 5: was the opposite. Yeah, women on for themselves.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: So it's like I get where your headspace was because
Speaker 5: it just wasn't like it is now. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I very much had experiences when it worked
Speaker 2: that were truly like sitting in the makeup chair having
Speaker 2: you know, your post lunch touch up and as you know,
Speaker 2: someone who'd been there for longer than you or higher
Speaker 2: up on the call sheet coming over and being like,
Speaker 2: yeah can you pause? You need to stand up and
Speaker 2: walk out. And because it's my turn, like I've.
Speaker 1: Been, I mean, and I think that.
Speaker 2: I try very hard to. I'm proud of myself for this.
Speaker 2: I adapt. Yeah, you know, I just I figured out
Speaker 2: I don't have a huge ego, so I don't have
Speaker 2: like I don't go there. I sort of go to
Speaker 2: what makes everybody? What what makes what's the price a piece?
Speaker 3: Here?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 1: Talking about herself as a recovering people pleaser. Yes, me too.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you guys are so bad. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: so hard to bring.
Speaker 4: Do you feel like you're done with that? But I
Speaker 4: do feel like I'm much better. Like I think I
Speaker 4: have a lot more of Like I think of myself
Speaker 4: ten years ago and I think of how different that
Speaker 4: mentality was versus now when I think about things that
Speaker 4: I would like people please so much on. But it's
Speaker 4: pretty ingrained. Yeah, it's ingrained to me. Yeah, it takes
Speaker 4: effort to like not people please for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well, I think there's also two aspects that
Speaker 2: I've heard you say that might contribute that I share
Speaker 2: as well. Mine's more Midwestern, but being from the Midwest
Speaker 2: and being a woman. Yeah, I mean, we talked about
Speaker 2: this with Julian Huff. It's there's a sort of collective
Speaker 2: there's a collective belief that girls are meant to be
Speaker 2: kind and be accommodating and make things okay. If, by
Speaker 2: the way, that actually is in your talent set right,
Speaker 2: because there's some people who actually can't. It's actually it
Speaker 2: actually has a talent to be able to make everybody happy.
Speaker 2: It's not one that everybody can do right, and those
Speaker 2: people just sort of get to like sidestep the responsibility.
Speaker 2: But if you can do that, and I mean, I
Speaker 2: grew up as a child of divorce. I grew up
Speaker 2: in you know, going back and forth between two families.
Speaker 2: I grew up going to thirteen different schools before I
Speaker 2: was thirteen. Like if I didn't figure out how to
Speaker 2: make new situations, okay friends, and I didn't for a while,
Speaker 2: and that was not fun. So when I finally got
Speaker 2: into and I remember saying to my mom because my
Speaker 2: mom wasn't an actress, well, no, she was an actress.
Speaker 2: My mom was an actress. I would go wherever she
Speaker 2: went to make a movie. And I remember being like twelve,
Speaker 2: going into like seventh grade, and I still can't believe
Speaker 2: that I would have the strength to do this, because
Speaker 2: I did understand that we went places, because that's how
Speaker 2: she made a living. But I said, I'm done. I'm like,
Speaker 2: no more. I can't, I can't do it again. I
Speaker 2: cannot move one more time. I cannot be the new girl.
Speaker 2: I cannot have no friends. I cannot, I cannot, I cannot.
Speaker 2: And that's when she had to adjust her life to
Speaker 2: create the life in Los Angeles and then go off
Speaker 2: and do jobs. And seventh and eighth grade was really
Speaker 2: hard for me because I didn't have any friends. And
Speaker 2: it wasn't until ninth grade that I actually I found
Speaker 2: my people and I understood how the greatest talk about gift,
Speaker 2: I mean, the greatest gift in the world is connection
Speaker 2: and feeling like you have a team, feeling like you
Speaker 2: have somebody who's gonna notice if you're sick that day. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I only I honestly think it only takes one
Speaker 2: if you have more grade. But truly, I've always been
Speaker 2: sort of like that's always been my mindset too. I've
Speaker 2: never belonged to like one big group of girlfriends. I've
Speaker 2: always had, you know, really deep and meaningful relationship with
Speaker 2: a bunch of different people. And I'm a little bit
Speaker 2: of a floater. But those times where you can, you know,
Speaker 2: make friends, that made the difference, and that really was
Speaker 2: the difference between sadness and happiness for me in middle
Speaker 2: school going into high school.
Speaker 1: Wow, that impacts you. It's such an age where you're
Speaker 1: like so imparted to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Where was the shift after Burger Gate where y'all said
Speaker 1: I love you?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I want to be your best friend and do a podcast.
Speaker 1: We were we were slowly warming up a little bit
Speaker 1: towards the end of the season. I remember the episode
Speaker 1: where there's the storm and the lights go out and
Speaker 1: the tree comes in and Alex and Joe have like
Speaker 1: their first kiss and Arizona and Cali.
Speaker 2: Wait, what when Arizona chief that cheeze?
Speaker 1: Yes, that episode we had to work together. We were
Speaker 1: doing this with the baby, and I remember feeling like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's getting a little warmer. I was getting warmer vibes.
Speaker 1: And then it was the end of the season and
Speaker 1: there was a rat party and we had we were
Speaker 1: friends with so many people that we were friends with
Speaker 1: so many of the same people, and we invited everyone
Speaker 1: to a dinner before the rat party, and nobody showed
Speaker 1: up but us.
Speaker 2: That's so sad that I think that the key part
Speaker 2: of that, as you were talking that were like, no,
Speaker 2: it was substantial.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like we were being left.
Speaker 2: It was actually it was actually genuinely because they will.
Speaker 2: But as you were telling that story, I just flashed
Speaker 2: on the fact that because we didn't spend a ton
Speaker 2: of time together, and probably because you were new and
Speaker 2: I was an I don't know is that when we
Speaker 2: finally had time to be together. I mean the gold,
Speaker 2: the magic, like the thing that you have like no
Speaker 2: other is how funny you are.
Speaker 1: Well, we laugh and you guys do too. We laughed
Speaker 1: so much. You're so funny though, Like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if people realize how funny. They can't.
Speaker 2: They don't.
Speaker 1: They can't they well because.
Speaker 2: They wouldn't know it from Joe Wilson. And I mean, like,
Speaker 2: you're not funny, but like you're funny and you're going
Speaker 2: one You're not serious, she's not funny, but Camilla is
Speaker 2: very funny.
Speaker 3: Fun to her finding fun to her.
Speaker 1: No, I mean they've they've written in more comedy over
Speaker 1: the years, but but no, that was like the actually,
Speaker 1: you know what the coolest thing about that dinner was
Speaker 1: because there was a part of me that was like, well,
Speaker 1: grew you for being like a little bit mean. But
Speaker 1: she at that dinner, she said, hey, I'm so sorry
Speaker 1: about that incident. I was feeling just really insecure at
Speaker 1: the time and I was having I just had the baby,
Speaker 1: and I was and I thought that was so fucking cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that because it's hard to do and to not just
Speaker 1: say I'm sorry about that moment. That was like not
Speaker 1: I was not feeling it or myself or whatever. And
Speaker 1: then to also like be vulnerable and tell me that
Speaker 1: all her feelings and I was like, I love her.
Speaker 1: I was like, if she wants me best friends, I'm
Speaker 1: in Like, I just love that vulnerable.
Speaker 2: That's tough.
Speaker 1: It's really hard.
Speaker 4: And to say I was feeling insecure and like admit
Speaker 4: where you yeah, we're in the wrong, is like that
Speaker 4: not I would say, majority of people don't have the
Speaker 4: emotional best or maturity to do that.
Speaker 3: No, they don't.
Speaker 1: No. And then I love just and then it was
Speaker 1: just love it.
Speaker 2: And then it was just like it was like.
Speaker 1: Seasons after the season nine, this is twenty twelve.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but then how was it for you? When Arizona
Speaker 3: Robbins left the cell?
Speaker 2: That was just.
Speaker 4: The meanest thing they've ever done. Honestly, it was happening nowhere.
Speaker 1: It felt so like abrupt and I was like, what happened?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what happened? So many things? So many things?
Speaker 1: I did you know it was coming?
Speaker 9: You know what.
Speaker 2: We talk about this a lot because this is a
Speaker 2: story that has a day some day to be told.
Speaker 2: It's not today.
Speaker 10: Champagne, bottom of Champagne.
Speaker 1: It was a multi layered situation. Have you ever been
Speaker 1: asked that before? I think this might be the first
Speaker 1: time you've been asked that.
Speaker 2: I've been asked that before, and I've never said what
Speaker 2: I feel, which is that there is a story and
Speaker 2: that I'm just not ready to talk about it.
Speaker 9: Then.
Speaker 2: And I will, but I'm just not there yet. So
Speaker 2: when other people have asked me before, I think I've
Speaker 2: just sort of bed and switched. And in the spirit
Speaker 2: of the things that we've been talking about, I think
Speaker 2: can take over and you can just sort of figure
Speaker 2: out how to say, you know, I mean, you can
Speaker 2: say you can pivot, pivot, yeah, and you and and
Speaker 2: and that and and and I stand by that that's
Speaker 2: that that was appropriate and and and so yeah, there's
Speaker 2: a time and a place, and there's probably on a podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think, as with all stories, you know, and
Speaker 2: all experiences, the the one that I would relay is mine. Right,
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of different things that were going on.
Speaker 2: I think that you know, there were It's funny because
Speaker 2: there was so much speculation and people were so upset.
Speaker 3: I was devastated, devastating devastated.
Speaker 2: I will speak to that which is that was that
Speaker 2: was very very hard for me to be dealing with
Speaker 2: my own processing and the fans that there was a
Speaker 2: collective sadness or a feeling for those people that did that,
Speaker 2: that that that character was important.
Speaker 3: You just wink at us twice and we can start some.
Speaker 5: Somebody can start some petitions like you just give us
Speaker 5: the nod and we have a force behind us.
Speaker 3: Let me tell you.
Speaker 1: The scrubbers they are. They're ready to go.
Speaker 3: They want us to People's Choice Awards, so they can
Speaker 3: do anything.
Speaker 1: They can do anything.
Speaker 2: I do actually that and I will say that you
Speaker 2: know what what I what I mean by how how
Speaker 2: I was affected by people's feelings is a true, true
Speaker 2: compliment to the way in which our fans express their
Speaker 2: excitement and their gratitude and their their connection and the
Speaker 2: and just how much it means to them. Because you know, listen,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you know, if we
Speaker 2: screamed it, and if we screamed it into a vacuum,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't matter, right, if it all happen like in
Speaker 2: the middle of the woods where everyone's watching, right, it
Speaker 2: would not be satisfying. It would not be what it is,
Speaker 2: and it is truly because when people say this, and
Speaker 2: you right, but I think they say it because they
Speaker 2: mean it. We're literally nothing without the people who watch
Speaker 2: the show. And so the fact that we have people
Speaker 2: who watch the show with their whole hearts and believe
Speaker 2: and in things and trust in things and and and
Speaker 2: give us as performers on the show their time, it's
Speaker 2: everything I mean. And also it just doesn't happen all
Speaker 2: that often, you know, I mean, not at this level.
Speaker 2: And so when you watch, you know, I'm I love
Speaker 2: being an audience member and I love watching things, and
Speaker 2: I have that feeling when I'm super immersed and I
Speaker 2: completely I'm just double downed on watching something. It's it's
Speaker 2: one of the greatest feelings ever. So the fact that
Speaker 2: I get to be on the other side of that
Speaker 2: sometimes is She's super lucky.
Speaker 1: It's true, though you change. I mean, I literally this
Speaker 1: is like a.
Speaker 4: I've talked about this, like when before I was with
Speaker 4: my girlfriend, before I even had thoughts because I was
Speaker 4: so like Christian that I never even thought of a woman.
Speaker 4: But I was obsessed with Callian Arizona. I would read
Speaker 4: fan fiction of Meredith and Derek and Callian Arizona, which
Speaker 4: it's not for someone who's just fully straight, is not
Speaker 4: for if you're reading cal Zona fan fiction Reassessed for
Speaker 4: listeners out there, there's a surprise.
Speaker 1: Coming for you, coming, She's coming, But you did you change?
Speaker 1: Like that relationship game?
Speaker 4: I mean it was like one of the first relationships
Speaker 4: that a lot of queer people saw that they were like.
Speaker 2: We talked about that in life.
Speaker 4: You know, I see I see myself and someone on
Speaker 4: on my TV on a network television show, which was
Speaker 4: so important.
Speaker 2: And that I did not see coming from the beginning,
Speaker 2: And when it was revealed that Arizona was gay and
Speaker 2: like absolutely, unapologetically, steadfastly with full permanent and strength of
Speaker 2: heart and conviction and total like when we were talking
Speaker 2: about like which parts of her are me and which
Speaker 2: parts are not? I've never been as confident as Arizona
Speaker 2: is ever. And in the play there were oftentimes where
Speaker 2: I would say to the writers like is there like
Speaker 2: is there any should she play this? Like a little
Speaker 2: unsure of what of what she's thinking, saying, feeling the past.
Speaker 2: And it was always and this is because sometimes you
Speaker 2: just got to trust the system. Ye Shanda and the
Speaker 2: powers that be that were writing those words and creating
Speaker 2: those characters. It was always, always, always Arizona is resolutely,
Speaker 2: always has been, always will be a strong, proud gay woman.
Speaker 2: And that hadn't been happening on television.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, no, And she was she was a feminine
Speaker 1: and Barbie, Yeah, she's like Barbie, Barbie, literally.
Speaker 2: Do we have that?
Speaker 1: We do? They should be in the.
Speaker 2: Mark it out?
Speaker 3: Mark it out?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But I mean I think that that was that was
Speaker 2: a sort of incredible thing that happened, and that was
Speaker 2: that was magic, like that was bigger than all of
Speaker 2: us and m hm. And I do think that it
Speaker 2: was very purposeful sort of having her come in the
Speaker 2: way that she did.
Speaker 1: Camilla.
Speaker 4: First of all, do you like you on link together
Speaker 4: on the show?
Speaker 1: Camilla?
Speaker 4: Joe?
Speaker 1: God? This again you guys, I know you hate them together? Skylar? Yeah,
Speaker 1: isn't he here? Yeah, we're talking tomorrow.
Speaker 4: But we heard you talk about how like you thought
Speaker 4: that was gonna be Joe's person, And I.
Speaker 1: Was like, yes, well here's what happened. I knew that
Speaker 1: they were going to bring someone in for Joe and
Speaker 1: you know, recur, and I thought like, any we know this,
Speaker 1: any recurring on the show can stand the test of
Speaker 1: time and end up a permanent because you were both
Speaker 1: case and case in point case and point. So they're
Speaker 1: bringing a guy on, and I said, if you bring
Speaker 1: a guy on and he's anything like Alex corrupt, it's
Speaker 1: not gonna work. Right, Like, my pitch for you guys
Speaker 1: is that you bring on someone that's like cute, nerdy, funny,
Speaker 1: like brings out a different side of her. And that's
Speaker 1: kind of where they were going with it. Anyway, they
Speaker 1: were of the same mind, right, And then Christa Vernoff,
Speaker 1: our showrunner, text me and said it's gonna be Skylar Aston,
Speaker 1: who already was like, oh my god, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be amazing because hello, he's fantastic and everything he's in
Speaker 1: and he encompasses all of those things. But you never
Speaker 1: know what chemistry is gonna be like with someone. And
Speaker 1: when he got to set, we met before he even
Speaker 1: started filming. He'd come in for something I forget, maybe
Speaker 1: a costume fitting, and I ran into him. Then we
Speaker 1: walked back to base camp and I was like, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like your new girlfriend for a little bit,
Speaker 1: and and we just had really natural chemistry, like it
Speaker 1: just worked. And he made me laugh so much. He's
Speaker 1: so charming and and and it was just really easy.
Speaker 1: And I thought this is going to be it. This
Speaker 1: could be it for her because it brought out a
Speaker 1: new side. It was so different, it was lighter, like
Speaker 1: I just thought it could go somewhere. Skyler brooked a show.
Speaker 1: He was not a series regular on our show, and
Speaker 1: he booked and that was it. And but they were
Speaker 1: already teasing, like the Link thing. How do you wait?
Speaker 1: I have to ask you guys, how do you feel
Speaker 1: about Link right now?
Speaker 4: Saying, first of all, I love him. He was on
Speaker 4: our podcast and we love him as a Yeah, this
Speaker 4: on his.
Speaker 1: Actual Yeah, it's not quite.
Speaker 3: It's not it's not quite.
Speaker 1: About Link and Joe together.
Speaker 3: It's just it's just's it.
Speaker 1: It's not you feel like there's chemistry or no, I
Speaker 1: feel like you have chemistry. But it feels very friendly.
Speaker 1: It feels friend chemistry.
Speaker 2: Frank Cam, you have.
Speaker 3: Friend Yeah, not bed Cam, but y'all have.
Speaker 1: Alex, I have Beg camon Allan are you wait hold on,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry because I'm not up to speed.
Speaker 2: How deep are we in with Link? Are you married?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: Well, well she's at the end of the season last
Speaker 1: year with his baby. Okay, she hasn't told me. People
Speaker 1: pregnant all the time. It doesn't matter on the show.
Speaker 1: They're pretty they're pretty deep.
Speaker 3: They're pretty deep. It's not for me.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like they're in game?
Speaker 3: It's not for me. You're not asking me.
Speaker 1: No, no, this is not a spoiler. Last time I
Speaker 1: went in, they gave me a laundry list of reasons
Speaker 1: why it was not going to work. There was something
Speaker 1: he'd done early on our set, and you're like, you're
Speaker 1: they're real pregnant. I I think, yeah, I think yes.
Speaker 1: But what's hard for me too, is you have to
Speaker 1: remember that, like I work with Chris Karmic, I love
Speaker 1: Chris Carmack, is also that element of like when you
Speaker 1: adore the actor you're working with you yeah, yes.
Speaker 2: But also, isn't it funny how sometimes you hear all
Speaker 2: these stories about how when when the actors get along
Speaker 2: really well, it's actually not as much chemistry as when
Speaker 2: the characters and then I don't get along.
Speaker 4: That's like Rachel McAdams and Ryan and the Notebook, that's
Speaker 4: a hard one together and they ended.
Speaker 3: Up dating, but they didn't like each other.
Speaker 1: Each other, but they almost had to recast. It was
Speaker 1: so bad. Yes, they did not. I will never forget
Speaker 1: seeing that movie.
Speaker 2: I made my girls watch Jerry Maguire in The Notebook
Speaker 2: to learn what romance.
Speaker 1: Which one they like better.
Speaker 2: They were so hard I rolling when we were watching Notebook.
Speaker 2: I might have gotten them on the tag on the
Speaker 2: attack watch that.
Speaker 5: You gotta watch Love Island with them.
Speaker 2: Like I need the romans.
Speaker 3: I gotta send up for the kids here I gotta be.
Speaker 2: But by the way I speak, you know, I actually
Speaker 2: did laugh really hard because my girls are now fine.
Speaker 2: They didn't really care about Graysnonomy at all, but then
Speaker 2: all their friends did, and so now they're watching, and
Speaker 2: now they're really into it, and so uh they're both
Speaker 2: at different parts, and uh, I think they just crossed
Speaker 2: over to when I arrived. Arrived, and I keep reading
Speaker 2: like I can't wait to see how this all goes,
Speaker 2: because they know they were there.
Speaker 1: Do you like worry about like your nude stuff?
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is my point. So Poppy says to me,
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I got the episode. Blah blah blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. But then all of a sudden, the door
Speaker 2: opened and you're in the shower with CALLI and I
Speaker 2: look away. Yes, of course it's gonna be weird. But
Speaker 2: when when I was doing when, I mean they were
Speaker 2: all tiny, Yeah, you were basically I don't think that
Speaker 2: on some levels, like I thought I would die there, right.
Speaker 5: But again it's also like your it's not I mean,
Speaker 5: it's you, but it's not you, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Obviously we talked about that a lot. But but again,
Speaker 2: I'm the daughter of an actress and I remember my
Speaker 2: mom did a show one time and I think she like.
Speaker 10: Showed her butt and I was like, oh god, yeah,
Speaker 10: that could be the day that my kids find out
Speaker 10: about Californication is going to be a situation.
Speaker 3: Hold are your kids now, I.
Speaker 1: Mean they're watching that. Anytime there's a problem in my household. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's going to be a I mean, like, you know,
Speaker 1: another ten years, like that's that's tough, that's I know.
Speaker 1: I mean, ill at school is going to be like
Speaker 1: I saw your mom's for.
Speaker 2: Sure, But that was a while ago. I last year
Speaker 2: was I was going to do something that let's just
Speaker 2: put it this way. We had to. So when you're
Speaker 2: when there's a possibility of you doing nudity. You have
Speaker 2: to like clause it out with your lawyers, like you
Speaker 2: got to have real explicit Have you guys.
Speaker 1: Ever had anyone talk about this with you guys? I
Speaker 1: don't know there was a nudity clause. Tell we gotta
Speaker 1: tell you guys a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, leave you with this when you are when something
Speaker 2: is written, well, actually I don't even know how to
Speaker 2: describe it. So let's do it together.
Speaker 8: Okay.
Speaker 2: You'll read a script and and either the nudity or
Speaker 2: the sex scenes are either explicit or they're just sort
Speaker 2: of like general, like it's not it's not explicit what
Speaker 2: they're going to do. It might just be like and
Speaker 2: they fall into bed and then whatever. But it's not explicit, right,
Speaker 2: It's not like and then her hand goes to and
Speaker 2: then his tongue, his tongue, his whatever, whatever whatever combination.
Speaker 2: And if it's explicit, then you know what you're signing
Speaker 2: up for. But if it's just a love scene, then
Speaker 2: you make it need to figure out what as an
Speaker 2: actor you're comfortable doing. And so that's when the lawyers
Speaker 2: come in and it becomes very explicit. Like I remember
Speaker 2: having one where it was like and she will.
Speaker 10: Show up to the first three quarters of her back
Speaker 10: but not below the Yeah.
Speaker 1: I remember in my Californication when it was like literally
Speaker 1: my lawyer called me. He was like, okay, so because
Speaker 1: I was topless, I shot my butt. But they wanted
Speaker 1: to know how far down by the vagina they could shoot.
Speaker 1: So he had to like go through like how like
Speaker 1: how many inches of pubic hair down? And it was
Speaker 1: like that detailed because you had to protect yourself. You
Speaker 1: had to be really specific because they.
Speaker 3: Go down to your butt.
Speaker 1: It could be the butt hole, the butle. I feel
Speaker 1: like I actually clause to the clause.
Speaker 2: Always so we didn't know. We didn't have used to.
Speaker 2: I mean when I was there, we didn't have intimacy coordinators,
Speaker 2: which that I would have been very grateful for.
Speaker 1: We did not, not till last night. But it very
Speaker 1: it's very recent.
Speaker 2: It's very recent.
Speaker 4: But the whole industry you just the director telling you
Speaker 4: how to move and what yes.
Speaker 2: And I think that that's always a very sort of
Speaker 2: very talking about vulnerable, a very vulnerable thing because very hard.
Speaker 2: It's also like okay, what's like where is the action happening?
Speaker 2: And is it happening? Like is it between action and
Speaker 2: cut and then are you like, obviously it is, but
Speaker 2: but there's it's just a very nuanced.
Speaker 3: And how many times are you doing that?
Speaker 2: And how many times are you doing it? And also
Speaker 2: where are like where is your hand going? And where
Speaker 2: is your So I was the first time I was
Speaker 2: lesbian on television. I was on The L Word and
Speaker 2: I was myself and Jennifer Peels and I'm supposed to
Speaker 2: be like the naughty, like hot for teacher girl and
Speaker 2: and she had been on it was probably like their
Speaker 2: fourth season, so she was she had so much experience
Speaker 2: with all the love scenes. She's like the most. She's
Speaker 2: an incredible actress. She's been working for so long. And again,
Speaker 2: so many love scenes me like zero love scenes. And
Speaker 2: I was terrified. And it wasn't that I was that
Speaker 2: I wasn't wanting to show up and do everything that
Speaker 2: I was meant to be doing and bringing I was
Speaker 2: so insecure. I was like, worried, I put my hand
Speaker 2: where she put her hand, How is this going to
Speaker 2: look like?
Speaker 1: All that?
Speaker 2: And she was such a pro and she was so
Speaker 2: kind and we really genuinely talked about choreographing. We choreographed
Speaker 2: the scene. It was in a car, and it was
Speaker 2: like it was I just kept thinking of my head.
Speaker 2: I'm she felt goes and buckled, hand goes to boob
Speaker 2: and goes to the left, just.
Speaker 9: Nipple.
Speaker 3: I could never be an.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It was it was a real I mean so, I
Speaker 2: you know, we again, we choreographed it on our own.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I think I imagine it might be
Speaker 2: really really great for actors that find that more challenging
Speaker 2: to have someone just really like saying like, here's here's
Speaker 2: what we're doing, and everybody knows what we're doing, so
Speaker 2: no one's surprised by hand going someplace like there's rules,
Speaker 2: there's it's not boundaryless. It's because guys, what we're at work,
Speaker 2: it's not it's not. No one's in a volunteer position.
Speaker 2: And no one's doing this because they want to make
Speaker 2: out someone else. They're doing it because it's a story.
Speaker 3: They're so crazy, it's crazy. It's crazy.
Speaker 5: I put myself in that position, Like I think about
Speaker 5: myself doing that.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you can't, no, I can't imagine that.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, nothing would be harder.
Speaker 1: Do you watch Sex and the City, Oh gosh, I
Speaker 1: mean not that have not called sexy and just.
Speaker 4: I have not.
Speaker 2: I haven't watched one frame of it.
Speaker 3: Callie. Callie is yes, there are.
Speaker 2: And there Chay.
Speaker 4: We were having this conversation earlier on the podcast about
Speaker 4: how people fall in love with you when they first
Speaker 4: see you, right from what they first saw you in
Speaker 4: so then it's like they evolve with you, because what
Speaker 4: a true fan will do. They evolve with you, but
Speaker 4: they'll always remember what they.
Speaker 3: Always remember your first time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, and I know what it's like. I mean,
Speaker 2: there are some characters that will live in my mind
Speaker 2: forever that started out as really evil, dark, awful characters
Speaker 2: and I'm like, never again, Like I will never watch this.
Speaker 2: I cannot see that person.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah of course, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: You never forget your first time.
Speaker 1: You never You'll never forget.
Speaker 5: Never forget that, We'll never forget our first time with you.
Speaker 5: We also wanted to pass along our message from our
Speaker 5: good friend Kate Walsh.
Speaker 1: She says high, she says, sigh.
Speaker 2: I love her. I love Kate Walsh. You know what,
Speaker 2: she 's an incredible role model because she she My
Speaker 2: experience of her is that she is resolutely, confidently and
Speaker 2: supremely herself. I never saw I mean, given that I
Speaker 2: sort of wish that there was not so much people
Speaker 2: pleasing on my end of things. She is like a badass.
Speaker 2: She comes in, she's like, that's what that is. That's
Speaker 2: what that is.
Speaker 5: We met her today at the panel and then we
Speaker 5: told her that we were and she was like, oh,
Speaker 5: tell them.
Speaker 2: I said hi, and I was like, oh, I was
Speaker 2: texting with her as we wrap this up, scrubbing in,
Speaker 2: call it what it is?
Speaker 1: Can we promise that we do this again?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And there's nothing better to me than having any sort
Speaker 5: of podcast with wine.
Speaker 3: Every podcast we have with Wine is like, this.
Speaker 1: Is our first, by the way, you popped our cherry,
Speaker 1: this is our first alcohol pop goes here we go,
Speaker 1: our first alcohol podcast.
Speaker 3: These are my favorite. I love them.
Speaker 2: I love it you.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you for the podcast.
Speaker 2: Cheers call it bought it and we call it scrub
Speaker 2: as we do. Oh yeah, let's call it scrubbing in.
Speaker 6: Mm hmmm.