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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarckley and Android

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Live from the White House.

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Speaker 3: The President there sitting next to his Secretary of Saint

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Speaker 3: Marco Rubio, across the table from the Prime Minister of Norway,

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Speaker 3: who is in town for meetings today. They're going to

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Speaker 3: have a bilateral in the Oval Office, probably about an

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Speaker 3: hour from now. We'll walk into the Oval together and

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Speaker 3: bring you into that conversation. Jonas Steira at the White

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Speaker 3: House alongside Jaen Stoltenberg, his Trump whisperer, sitting in on

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Speaker 3: the meetings today. Donald Trump had very nice things to

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Speaker 3: say about Stoltenberg from the years he was running NATO

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Speaker 3: as Secretary General. They're going to get behind closed doors

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Speaker 3: now and again following lunch there will be a bilateral

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Speaker 3: news conference that takes place, not so much a news conference,

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Speaker 3: but a little conversation, if you will, around the fireplace

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Speaker 3: in the Oval Office. Some interesting headlines crossing there, everyone's

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Speaker 3: talking about Ukraine, at least for the most part. That

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Speaker 3: is really driving the agenda in this meeting today, thinking

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Speaker 3: very strongly, Ukraine Russia want peace. The headline from Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump Ukraine Russia need to get to the table. Think

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Speaker 3: we will get peace, saying he has his own deadline

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Speaker 3: on Ukraine. When asked about that, there was a reporter

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Speaker 3: who asked him as well about potentially winning the Nobel

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Speaker 3: Peace Prize, which he seemed to enjoy. Now, all of

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Speaker 3: this comes after a massive missile and drone attack by

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Speaker 3: Russia against Kiev last night, at least nine dead, more

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Speaker 3: than sixty wounded. As we talk about conditions here for peace,

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg is making news. We've talked a lot about conditions

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Speaker 3: for Ukraine. Right, you lose crimea freeze the lines in place,

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Speaker 3: you never get to join NATO, maybe peacekeepers from Europe,

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Speaker 3: but not Americans. Conditions for Russia are suddenly emerging. According

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Speaker 3: to Bloomberg person's familiar, the US will demand Russia accept

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Speaker 3: Ukraine's right to have its own army and defense industry.

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Speaker 3: This may be a non starter from Moscow, as Vladimir

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Speaker 3: Putin has made it clear. Remember before the invasion even happened.

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Speaker 3: It was about the demilitarization of Ukraine. So where are

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Speaker 3: we as Steve Whitkoff prepares to pack his bags from Moscow?

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Speaker 3: Were joined by Ben Jensen, a new voice on the

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Speaker 3: program and looking forward to the conversation with Ben, director

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Speaker 3: of the Future's Lab and senior fellow with the Defense

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Speaker 3: and Security Department at CSIS, the Center for Strategic and

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Speaker 3: International Studies.

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Speaker 2: Ben, it's great to have you.

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Speaker 3: I'm fascinated by this new wrinkle here because this has

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Speaker 3: really seemed like a negotiation that favored Russia until now.

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Speaker 3: Does this move the needle? And will this meeting with

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Speaker 3: Norway help us get any closer to peace?

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Speaker 4: So great question, Thank you for having me. I would say,

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Speaker 4: we don't know what we'll move the needle yet, because

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Speaker 4: we're in the middle of a complex negotiation process that

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Speaker 4: doesn't lend itself necessarily to social media hot takes, whether

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Speaker 4: it's by our own political leaders or quick comments and

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Speaker 4: nightly addresses by Ukraine. Historically, negotiations take time and they

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Speaker 4: take discretion, and so you're seeing a real tension play

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Speaker 4: out in each side is using a mix of private communication,

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Speaker 4: direct private messages through intermediaries and also directly as well

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Speaker 4: as these public claims to try to gain a position

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Speaker 4: of leverage. And so I think we're starting to see

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Speaker 4: now that actually, behind the scenes, Trump's team has been

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Speaker 4: putting pressure on Moscow. I know sometimes from the outside

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Speaker 4: it doesn't look like that, but this is the first

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Speaker 4: sign that there has been pressure put on Moscow to

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Speaker 4: accept some type of concession. So it's the mix of

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Speaker 4: carrots and sticks that are really going to matter. And

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Speaker 4: you can't have all the carrots and sticks publicly revealed

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Speaker 4: where people start to maneuver around them. So does it

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Speaker 4: move the needle maybe, But I think more importantly what

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Speaker 4: it reminds us of is that not everything is as

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Speaker 4: it appears from the outside.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't that always the case? Vladimir Putin certainly isn't

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Speaker 3: waiting around. As you heard me mention, the attacks on Kiev.

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Speaker 3: Missiles and drones were horrifying. The images are horrifying, and

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Speaker 3: I'm guessing that President Trump saw them.

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Speaker 2: In his daily briefing today, he.

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Speaker 3: Took to truth social pretty quick post, at least for

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump, and says, I am not happy with the

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Speaker 3: Russian strikes on Kiev. If you're with us on YouTube

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Speaker 3: you see the post. Not necessary and very bad timing,

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Speaker 3: he writes, Vladimir stop, exclamation point. Five thousand soldiers a

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Speaker 3: week are dying. Let's get the peace deal done. Exclamation

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Speaker 3: point pretty interesting, Vladimir stop.

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Speaker 2: Ben will he.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 4: In fact, I would direct you and your view and

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Speaker 4: listeners to check out our firepower strike tracker at CSIS.

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Speaker 4: So for over a year now, we've actually been scraping

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Speaker 4: statistics to analyze how Russia uses a mix of long

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Speaker 4: range drones the Shaheed, as well as ballistic missiles and

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Speaker 4: cruise missiles to effectively negotiate by fire, to use a

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Speaker 4: punishment strategy as a way of gaining strategic leverage over

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Speaker 4: President Zelensky through trying to kill as many Ukrainian civilians

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Speaker 4: as possible. This is completely counterintuitive to most of the

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Speaker 4: ways we've talked about war in the twenty first century,

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Speaker 4: but it shows us that war remains not only a

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Speaker 4: continuation of politics, but ultimately tragic and brutal. And so

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Speaker 4: what Putin did was is not necessarily any different than

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Speaker 4: what he's done. What you're seeing is that Ukraine is

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Speaker 4: at a critical point because Russia is actually getting more

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Speaker 4: sophisticated in its targeting, better able to integrate satellite intelligence,

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Speaker 4: better to integrate cyber intelligence, and now increasingly being able

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Speaker 4: to direct a complex mix of ballistic cruise missiles and

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Speaker 4: then more sophisticated shaheeds that resist Ukrainian electronic warfare. And

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Speaker 4: if you check out that firepower strike tracker we detail

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Speaker 4: with all the statistics, we actually break down and do

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Speaker 4: the analysis to show that when you mix the different

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Speaker 4: types of attacks and you concentrate them in a geographic space,

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Speaker 4: so I mix ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and drones just

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Speaker 4: on the Capitol, it's going to lower the probability that

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Speaker 4: Ukraine can intercept them, and it's going to actually begin

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Speaker 4: to really wage this punishment strategy into a brutal war

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Speaker 4: of attrition, which we've already seen. So it might have

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Speaker 4: seemed like it was audacious, it was bad timing, but

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Speaker 4: this is central to Russia's strategy. They can't win on

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Speaker 4: the battlefield. They're throwing their own young men literally what

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Speaker 4: the Ukrainians call them is meat assaults at front lines

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Speaker 4: where they're killed by drones. And so their bid for

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Speaker 4: success when they can't win with this twenty first century

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Speaker 4: version of trench warfare is to try to bomb the

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Speaker 4: Ukrainians into submission. It's utterly brutal, and our president is

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Speaker 4: right to take the stance he did.

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Speaker 3: This is incredible, Ben, terrifying as you describe this. I'm

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Speaker 3: looking right now. You've got to check this out, guys,

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Speaker 3: go google it. As Ben mentioned here, Russian firepower Strike

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Speaker 3: Tracker analyzing missile attacks in Ukraine. This is great work

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Speaker 3: from the Future's Lab at csis Ben that would suggest

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Speaker 3: that the closer we get to peace, the more violent

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Speaker 3: this conflict will be.

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Speaker 4: I think you're absolutely right, and in fact, that's something

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Speaker 4: for your viewers and listeners to really take into consideration.

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Speaker 4: There is a tendency now moving from the political and

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Speaker 4: strategic level down to the operational for each side to

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Speaker 4: take more risk and gambles to seek territorial concessions or

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Speaker 4: some kind of additional Basically, everyone's competing to get new

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Speaker 4: chips before they head to the poker table. Call these negotiations. So,

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Speaker 4: I think you're not just going to see Russia increase

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Speaker 4: these kind of highly concentrated firepower strikes. You're going to

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Speaker 4: see them continue to sacrifice the lives of future Russian generations.

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Speaker 4: You are also going to see them beg, borrow and

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Speaker 4: steal from North Korea, China and Iran to build up

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Speaker 4: their arsenal authoritarianism. But at the same time, on the

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Speaker 4: other side, you're also probably going to see the Ukrainians

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Speaker 4: pull off some pretty daring raids and long range strikes.

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Speaker 4: And the Ukrainians have been utterly ingenious throughout this war.

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Speaker 4: Remember this is a country that entered the conflict with

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Speaker 4: five drone companies and now has over five hundred, and

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Speaker 4: they produce thousands of FPVS first person view drones all

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Speaker 4: the way up to long range, low cost cruise missiles daily.

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Speaker 4: So you're I think going to see not just Russia

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Speaker 4: increasingly try to punish the Ukrainian people, I would expect

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Speaker 4: to see more long range Ukrainian raids. So in the

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Speaker 4: last week alone, you've had a Ukrainian strike on Russian

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Speaker 4: strategic bomber bases and also a Ukrainian long range strike

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Speaker 4: on a major ammunition depot, So I think we're going

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Speaker 4: to also see the Ukrainians trying to get those poker

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Speaker 4: chips for the negotiation table as well.

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Speaker 3: Wow, all right, Ben, I want to ask you about

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Speaker 3: CRIMEA specifically, and I want to bring you back to

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Speaker 3: this post that Donald.

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Speaker 2: Trump made yesterday on Tree with social umtry you saw it.

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Speaker 3: Ukrainian President Zelenski, he writes, is boasting on the front

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Speaker 3: page of the Wall Street Journal that Ukraine will not

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Speaker 3: legally recognize the occupation of Crimea. Donald Trump goes on

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Speaker 3: to write, this statement is very harmful to the peace

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Speaker 3: negotiations with Russia in that Crimea was lost years ago

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Speaker 3: under the auspices of President Barack Hussein Obama and is

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Speaker 3: not even a point of discussion. He goes on to

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Speaker 3: say that if he wants Crimea, why didn't they fight

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Speaker 3: for it eleven years ago when it was handed over

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Speaker 3: to Russia without a shot being fired. That's a bit

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Speaker 3: of revisionist history. If you were paying attention to things.

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Speaker 3: Then the Press secretary at the White House, Caroline Leviott,

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Speaker 3: picked it up from there in the White House driveway yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Ben here's what she said.

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Speaker 6: Well, as President Trump, Wrightfrey pointed out in that statement,

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Speaker 6: it was President Obama who gave up Crimea, who allowed

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Speaker 6: Russia to take it over in twenty fourteen, and so

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Speaker 6: the President is not asking Ukraine to recognize Crimea. Nobody

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Speaker 6: has asked them to do that.

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Speaker 7: What he is asking is for people to come to

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Speaker 7: the negotiating table recognize saying that this has been a

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Speaker 7: brutal war for far too long, and in order to

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Speaker 7: make a good deal, both sides have to walk away

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Speaker 7: a little bit unhappy.

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Speaker 3: Ben, you don't have to wait into the Obama stuff.

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Speaker 3: But aren't we asking Ukraine to acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory?

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Speaker 3: And what would happen to those Russian sub bases if

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Speaker 3: in fact Crimea went back to Kiev.

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Speaker 4: So I think what you're seeing in all of this

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Speaker 4: if rhetoric and reality have not aligned for some time

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Speaker 4: in American politics. So I think the President's trying to

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Speaker 4: make the point that he wants them to negotiate the challenge.

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Speaker 4: And this is where the details matter. Is if you

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Speaker 4: look at Article two of the Ukrainian Constitution. And we're Americans,

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Speaker 4: so constitutions matter to us. Our own constitution matters, and

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Speaker 4: we know that other countries also guarantee rights to their

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Speaker 4: citizen natural rights through structures like constitutions. Article two of

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Speaker 4: the Ukrainian Constitution makes it impossible for President Zelensky to

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Speaker 4: recognize Crimea as part of Russia and the Ukrainians frankly

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Speaker 4: did fight for it. They fought for a long time.

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Speaker 4: It's just that Russia, through a manipulation of the law

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Speaker 4: of armed conflict, used the Little Green Men to seize it.

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Speaker 4: And frankly, there were a lot of Russian pensioners in

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Speaker 4: Crimea and large Russian naval bases making it easier. So

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Speaker 4: what you have right now is a very interesting situation

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Speaker 4: where the president is just doing what he does. He

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Speaker 4: really likes to turn up the rhetoric. He likes to

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Speaker 4: say things that grab our attention, and he's frankly successful

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Speaker 4: at it and pull us in in a way that

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Speaker 4: he can try to pressure both Ukraine and Russia to

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Speaker 4: try to negotiate to achieve the subjective, which in a

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Speaker 4: larger strategic sense means that the United States can focus

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Speaker 4: on the ongoing Iran negotiations and also focus more on China.

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Speaker 4: But in the meantime, what's happening is it's unsettling some

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Speaker 4: of the larger complexities of any piece deal. So Crimea

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Speaker 4: is going to be hard for the Ukrainians to win

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Speaker 4: back militarily, and it's definitely going to be something that

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Speaker 4: Russians will resist giving. At the negotiation table. Owing exactly

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Speaker 4: to what you put out, Crimea is key maritime terrain,

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Speaker 4: and not only is it key maritime terrain, Russia actually

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Speaker 4: still maintains large space infrastructure there for communicating with its

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Speaker 4: satellite constellation. So Crimea is important both from a maritime

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Speaker 4: and a space standpoint, but also increasingly a symbolic standpoint.

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Speaker 4: So it's hard to see that Russia's really going to

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Speaker 4: be willing to negotiate with it. And it's hard to imagine,

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Speaker 4: short of a catastrophic collapse of the Russian military along

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Speaker 4: the front line, that Ukraine can take it by military force,

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Speaker 4: which means we're left with a very difficult reality. Ukraine

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Speaker 4: cannot seed Crimea until it adjusts its own constitution. It

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Speaker 4: can't do constitutional referendums under martial law in the middle

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Speaker 4: of the war. So there's really a coordination challenge involved

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Speaker 4: with these negotiations about what has to move first. Can

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Speaker 4: you have elections in Ukraine? Can you put those things up?

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Speaker 4: And it also is a reminder to us that no

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Speaker 4: matter what we hear on truth, social or what Zelensky

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Speaker 4: says in a nightly address, this process is going to

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Speaker 4: take months, if not years to play out and that

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Speaker 4: detail are what will matter. The technical details are what

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Speaker 4: drives negotiations.

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Speaker 2: In the end. Really fascinating.

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Speaker 3: You know what I love, Ben is someone who knows

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Speaker 3: what they're talking about. I'm really glad that you could

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Speaker 3: come to share your expertise with us, and I hope

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Speaker 3: you'll stay close because this is a story developing before

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Speaker 3: our eyes. Benjamin Jensen, Director of the Future's Lab, Senior

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Speaker 3: Fellow Defense Security Department at CSIS, Let me know when

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Speaker 3: you're ready to host the show that was fascinating a

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Speaker 3: clinic with Ben Jensen. These are the kind of conversations

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Speaker 3: we try to bring you every day here on the

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Speaker 3: fastest show in politics.

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Speaker 2: Only on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcast. Catch

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Speaker 3: Channel one twenty one and on YouTube with our on

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Speaker 3: the White House, We're going to go back there shortly

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Speaker 3: for a bilateral meeting with President Trump and the Prime

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Speaker 3: Minister of Norway. You might think you just saw that

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Speaker 3: that was actually the beginning of their luncheon. Prime minister

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Speaker 3: arrived a short time ago. They're going to break bread

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Speaker 3: and then they'll be in the Oval Office with reporters

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Speaker 3: a bit later. On Ukraine is a major story that

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Speaker 3: we're following here today as it is the top agenda

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Speaker 3: item in this conversation. Jaen Stoltenberg is also in the room,

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Speaker 3: the former NATO Secretary General. As we consider the polls

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Speaker 3: this morning that are making the rounds, you might have

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Speaker 3: heard about some of these yesterday. Reuter zipsos thirty seven

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Speaker 3: percent of Americans approve of Donald Trump's handling of the economy.

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Speaker 3: Pure research, donald Trump's overall approval rating falling to forty

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Speaker 3: percent in the first hundred days, confidence in his economic

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Speaker 3: leadership dropping to forty five percent. Gallup's got ugly numbers.

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Speaker 3: And you know who else does Fox News? Fox News

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Speaker 3: poll first hundred days of President Trump's second term, and

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Speaker 3: it doesn't look great. He receives the best marks on

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Speaker 3: border security, the only issue where his ratings are in

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Speaker 3: positive territory. His worst are on inflation. Only thirty three

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Speaker 3: percent approve, fifty nine percent disapprove. Tariffs pretty similar, thirty

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Speaker 3: three percent disapprove foreign policy, forty percent taxes and guns.

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Speaker 3: None of these are looking good, and so maybe we

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Speaker 3: shouldn't have been surprised this morning on truth social well,

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump started writing this is only two hours ago.

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Speaker 3: Rupert Murdoch, he says, has told me for years he's

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Speaker 3: going to get rid of his Fox News Trump hating

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Speaker 3: fake polster, but he has never done so. This polster,

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Speaker 3: in quotes, has gotten me in Maga wrong for years,

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Speaker 3: he says, while he's ataged to start making changes at

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Speaker 3: the China loving Wall Street Journal. Not a fan of

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Speaker 3: the paper either. This is where we start with our panel,

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Speaker 3: both experts on polling. Rick Davis is with me here

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Speaker 3: at the table in Washington, our Republican strategist, partner at

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Speaker 3: Stone Court Capital, Genie Shanzano in New York, political science

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Speaker 3: professor at Iona University, or democratic analyst.

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Speaker 2: What do you think, Rick, is.

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Speaker 3: Fox about to get a new polster and what does

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Speaker 3: this tell us about the first hundred days of this president.

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Speaker 8: Well, if he doesn't like the Fox poulster, he doesn't

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Speaker 8: like any polsters, because as you pointed out, they're all

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Speaker 8: basically saying the same thing, which is saved for border security,

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Speaker 8: which is basically incursions of all but dried up under

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Speaker 8: the Trump administration. Nobody's coming across the border illegally. Everything

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Speaker 8: else is a dismal failure. I mean, you know, negative

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Speaker 8: twenty six percent on inflation, this is what he campaigned on.

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Speaker 9: I'm going to bring those costs down. I mean economy.

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Speaker 8: He won on the economy, and now negative sixteen percent

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Speaker 8: on that rating. I mean, it's really really bad news.

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Speaker 8: And you can only make the assumption that you know

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Speaker 8: this first one hundred days, unless there's a significant change

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Speaker 8: in what's happening, it could portend really poorly for these

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Speaker 8: men term elections.

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Speaker 9: I mean, we're a long way away.

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Speaker 8: Nobody's voting today, but if you're, you know, after the

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Speaker 8: first hundred days, these are numbers are all worse than

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Speaker 8: his first hundred days in twenty seventeen. So you know,

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Speaker 8: look what happened in the midterms in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 9: We have a model to work for.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Democrats are loving this genie.

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Speaker 3: I don't know your thoughts on these numbers because Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump said yesterday in the Oval Office he had a

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Speaker 3: ninety two percent approval rating.

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Speaker 2: I believe is that is that not true?

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Speaker 10: I'm not sure where the ninety two percent is coming from.

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Speaker 10: To Rick's point, this is pretty consistent across most pollsters.

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Speaker 10: And you look at the Real Clear Politics average, which

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Speaker 10: I always like to look at averages, and he is underwater.

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Speaker 10: And it's stunning that he is performing worse than he

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Speaker 10: was in his first term at this point. And the

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Speaker 10: you know, problem for Donald Trump is the first hundred

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Speaker 10: days or as good as it's going to get for

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Speaker 10: the modern president. And so it's not going to up here,

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Speaker 10: I'm sorry to tell him. And you know the reality

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Speaker 10: of all of this is this is all of his

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Speaker 10: own making. He hasn't had a crisis that has you know,

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Speaker 10: a natural disaster or something. These are things that he

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Speaker 10: has done to himself. Shot himself in the foot, if

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Speaker 10: you will. I mean, just imagine if he had come

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Speaker 10: in he had not gone with his idea of tariffs.

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Speaker 10: He had instead worked with Congress to pass the Reconciliation bill.

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Speaker 10: He had work to secure the border, but he had

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Speaker 10: done so knowing that he has to follow the court

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Speaker 10: orders and due process, and when he makes a mistakes,

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Speaker 10: send Abrego Garcia back. His numbers might be up where

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Speaker 10: they were when he came in, But all of this

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Speaker 10: is of his own doing. It's as if he can't

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Speaker 10: hault himself or stop himself from his worst instincts. And

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Speaker 10: I think number one that's going to go down in

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Speaker 10: the record books is his adherence to an discredited economic

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Speaker 10: policy that even a sixth grader could have told you

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Speaker 10: since the Great Depression, was not a good idea, and

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Speaker 10: he has followed it right down the path, and this

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Speaker 10: is where he ends up. I quite frankly think the numbers,

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Speaker 10: he should be pretty happy. They're better than they probably

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Speaker 10: should be given how quickly he has dismantled the economy.

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Speaker 3: Jeez, I don't think anyone's there to tell him that.

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Speaker 3: Genie CC's, by the way, keeping honest here that ninety

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Speaker 3: two percent approval rating was on veterans' services and it

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Speaker 3: was still not correct. So Rick, I guess the question

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Speaker 3: is here, is it the cadence or is it in.

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Speaker 2: Fact the issues that he's tackled.

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Speaker 3: If Donald Trump was in there sign of eos every day,

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Speaker 3: keeping the media running, but it was actually about lowering

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Speaker 3: prices would be having a different conversation.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 8: Look, I mean I think that part of it is

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Speaker 8: the rhetoric and part of it is.

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Speaker 9: The impact, right.

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Speaker 8: I mean, we know that there hasn't been substantial increases

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Speaker 8: in inflation, as these numbers might actually indicate, but there

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Speaker 8: also has not been substantial decreases. And even though Donald

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Speaker 8: Trump likes to talk about the price of gas coming down, eggs,

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Speaker 8: eggs and eggs and eggs, he's just not making that case.

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Speaker 9: And by the way, he's drowning out all.

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Speaker 8: That noise, all that message, with the noise around tariffs,

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Speaker 8: the noise around attacks of people, you know, the negotiations

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Speaker 8: on Ukraine. I mean, like we've talked about this a

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Speaker 8: lot during the campaign season. He's not getting any points

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Speaker 8: for trying to solve the Ukraine Russian war, right, the

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Speaker 8: right thing to do. Voters aren't going to give him

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Speaker 8: credit for it. And I think the one thing that

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Speaker 8: that Fox poll really indicated was that people have a very.

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Speaker 9: Dim view of the future.

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Speaker 8: It's not just where they are today, but overwhelmingly the

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Speaker 8: economy is getting worth fifty five percent. You know, Trump

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Speaker 8: policies are in the long run, are going to be

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Speaker 8: bad negative eleven percent. I mean like it's a dismal

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Speaker 8: future to most of these voters. And you see that

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Speaker 8: in the consumer data Michigan Consumer Sentiment Best Poll in America,

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Speaker 8: same thing. People don't see this getting better.

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Speaker 3: And Genie, that's not just Democrats in this case. And

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Speaker 3: of course we're hearing on the daily basis from pretty

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Speaker 3: smart economists at major firms who we hear from on

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Speaker 3: the regular here on networks like Bloomberg, and they're increasing

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Speaker 3: their odds for a recession. If we find ourselves in

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Speaker 3: one and say the second half of the year, maybe

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Speaker 3: by the end of the second quarter, what happens to

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Speaker 3: these numbers, they're.

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Speaker 10: Going to continue to get worse, because what we've seen

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Speaker 10: so far is almost at every step experts in particular fields,

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Speaker 10: whether it's economists on the economy, whether it's legal experts

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Speaker 10: on what he's doing with the courts or an education,

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Speaker 10: the experts in those areas are telling him to stop.

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Speaker 10: They are saying he's moving in the wrong direction. And

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Speaker 10: the public is always going to be a little slower.

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Speaker 10: We're a little slower to catch up with that, and

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Speaker 10: it's a little slower to be reflected in the public

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Speaker 10: opinion polls. But that is what's going to happen eventually

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Speaker 10: if he doesn't stop. And you know, I think we've

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Speaker 10: seen this week Susie Wiles and others trying to tamp

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Speaker 10: down a little bit. You notice they have sort of

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Speaker 10: tried to get him not to talk until the markets

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Speaker 10: are closed, when he sort of goes rambling. You know,

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Speaker 10: they're trying to contain it. But if he keeps barreling

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Speaker 10: down these paths, the numbers in these polls and consumer

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Speaker 10: sentiment and everything else are just going to continue to

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Speaker 10: get worse. And so you know, the big question is

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Speaker 10: who's there in the White House to stop him. Doesn't

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Speaker 10: seem like a lot of people. Besnt seems to have

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Speaker 10: stepped up the you know, the CEOs have come in,

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Speaker 10: But he feels unshackled in his second term, and he

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Speaker 10: is committed to these ideas, and he is moving down

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Speaker 10: a path with no thought of the impact either on

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Speaker 10: himself politically as a self interested person, or the American

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Speaker 10: public or the world economy.

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Speaker 2: Quite frankly, Rick, you mentioned Ukraine. Is there any recourse?

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Speaker 3: We're going to be talking a lot more about the

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Speaker 3: prospect for peace in our next hour as the President

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Speaker 3: meets with the Prime Minister of Norway. Is there any

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Speaker 3: recourse to promising over and over to be able to

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Speaker 3: solve this on day one and reach one hundred days

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Speaker 3: with no real plan sit or did no one actually

436
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 3: believe that to begin with?

437
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 9: No, I think that it. First of all, everyone sort

438
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 9: of takes that kind of thing with a grainness.

439
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 2: They do know it's.

440
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 8: Hyperbole for him, right, and he even claims it's hyperbole,

441
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 8: and so you can't really tell the difference between what he's.

442
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 9: You know, sort of preaching about and what he actually believes.

443
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 9: But it does have an impact.

444
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 8: In this Fox poll, they asked about do you think

445
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 8: that the administration is competent?

446
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 9: And fifty two percent says they're not.

447
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 8: Well, you don't want the majority of America thinking, forget

448
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 8: if you're even trying to do the right thing, you're

449
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 8: not competent enough to implement it. And so that is

450
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 8: a very, very troubling number because we all remember when

451
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 8: Joe Biden at this stage of his presidency, all of

452
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 8: his numbers were significantly better than these, But he tried

453
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 8: to withdraw from Afghanistan on the short run, and it

454
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 8: was a disaster and people made a decision that he

455
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 8: was running an incompetent government, and everything since then in

456
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 8: his administration was bad and he couldn't dig out of

457
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 8: it because you couldn't convince people that you were competent.

458
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 8: If that happens to Donald Trump, no matter what he does,

459
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 8: it's going to be seen as incompetent through that lens.

460
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 2: Are you surprised that Pete Heegsath still has a job

461
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 2: With that said.

462
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 8: You know, look, I mean Donald Trump is known for

463
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 8: his quick trigger finger in firing people. He made a

464
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,719
Speaker 8: whole living out of a show where he did it.

465
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 8: And so yeah, I think people think.

466
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 9: There's no upside.

467
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 8: I mean, it's not like he's got such stellar credentials

468
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,239
Speaker 8: that he brings confidence to the world community on the

469
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 8: security business. And so what's the point of this? It

470
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 8: was an experiment. It failed.

471
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 2: Okay, move on standing by his man. From everything we

472
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 2: can tell, but we also aren't done with the week.

473
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 3: Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano.

474
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

475
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple,

476
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: Cockley and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen

477
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch us

478
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: live on YouTube.

479
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 11: This comes Joe as we've gotten some fresh polling data

480
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 11: out of all places Fox News on how Americans are

481
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 11: feeling about the President's handling of tariffs and the economy overall,

482
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 11: and on both metrics, he is underwater by a pretty

483
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 11: wide margin. Tariff approval disapproval fifty eight percent disapprove of

484
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 11: tarif's only thirty three percent approval.

485
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 3: We're looking at, broadly the lowest approval ratings for a

486
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 3: president in the first one hundred days in modern history,

487
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 3: which has prompted Donald Trump to get to truth social

488
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 3: and call on Rupert Murdoch to fire the polster at

489
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 3: Fox News. I'm not sure that's going to happen. He's

490
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 3: asking for the same at the Wall Street Journal. But

491
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 3: of course it brings us to the issue of tariff's

492
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 3: the corrosive effect that it's had on psychology in the markets.

493
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 3: Although we are feeling a little better about things today,

494
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 3: and the corrosive impact has had in the psyche of

495
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 3: many consumers who are concerned about rising prices and where

496
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 3: we're going to be in the second half of the year. Kayley,

497
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 3: every day we talk about economists raising odds for a

498
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 3: recession in the second half.

499
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 11: Yeah, and it seems that those concerns are reflected when

500
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 11: you're looking at more marginalized communities in terms of their

501
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 11: financial health. According to a new survey from Hope Insider

502
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 11: survey from the Operation Hope Project, three or four participants

503
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 11: in the survey so they are not confident that the

504
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 11: economy will remain stable. Fifty three percent believe the change

505
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 11: in administration will not increase job growth in their communities.

506
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 2: Sensing a bit of a theme here.

507
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 3: With that in mind, we're excited to introduce John Hopebrian

508
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 3: bring back to Bloomberg, the Chairman's CEO, founder of Operation

509
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 3: Hopes with us live from our bureau in Atlanta. John,

510
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: it's great to have you with us here on Bloomberg,

511
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 3: and I appreciate your coming to talk to us. You

512
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 3: actually were in the Treasury Department recently to talk about

513
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 3: financial literacy, which I know is a matter of great

514
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: import to you. You spent some time with Scott Bessen,

515
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 3: who tweeted a photo of you together and wrote, financial

516
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: literacy is a necessity, not a luxury.

517
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: Is the word tariff in.

518
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 3: The Financial Receive notebooks that you're bringing forth.

519
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 5: Well, I believe that, first of all, honored to be

520
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 5: with you, thanks for having me. I believe that financial

521
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 5: literacy is the civil rights issue of this generation. And

522
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 5: the color's not black or white, or red or blue,

523
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 5: it's green. It affects uh all of us, and I

524
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 5: e based on you're reporting, you just had even more

525
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 5: so now because the economy is basically driven the biggest

526
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 5: economy in the world, driven by consumer spending over seventy percent,

527
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 5: and everybody's starting to feel the pinch now. No tariffs

528
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 5: is not typically part of the financial literacy lexicon. I

529
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 5: do understand that, uh, the a president might wanna use

530
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 5: it as a negotiating tool in the short term to

531
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 5: to try to get someone to level a playing field,

532
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 5: uh with a guard to trade uh uh very uh

533
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 5: trade and balances, et cetera. As a long term tool,

534
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 5: I think for a country that is that runs on sentiment,

535
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 5: It runs on how do I feel about things? And again,

536
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 5: the economy is mostly consumer spending. As a long term instrument,

537
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 5: I don't think it's product. I actually think it's it's

538
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 5: potentially harmful. I'm hopeful that this is not a long

539
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 5: term strategy. The ninety day pause was a nice thing

540
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 5: to see. I think the saw the markets respond to that.

541
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,959
Speaker 5: You know, when when you say tariffs to my population,

542
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 5: they're thinking about bread prices, egg prices, k kitchen top economics,

543
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 5: gas prices. You know, how it's gonna affect the restaurant,

544
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 5: how it's gonna affect the part, you know, the the

545
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 5: car they're buying, or the TV that they're buying, because

546
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 5: a lot of this stuff has parts from all around

547
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 5: the world, and they're smart enough at least to understand

548
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 5: that if if there's a tax on that, which is

549
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 5: what a tariff is, that the importer is going to

550
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 5: have to potentially raise those prices if it lasts for

551
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 5: a period of time. I do have confidence in sec

552
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 5: Secretary Scott Bessett, though, I do have enormous confidence in him,

553
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 5: and I think that he will find a way with

554
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 5: the administration to maneuver us forward.

555
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 11: So if you think the Treasury Secretary is the adult

556
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 11: in the room, and there's been much reporting about his

557
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 11: role in implementing or having the President implement that ninety

558
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 11: day pause, perhaps pulling him back from the ledge on

559
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 11: firing the chair of the Federal Reserve, what has he

560
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 11: shared with you. Has he given you any insight into

561
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 11: the administrations thinking what he's receiving back when he brings

562
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 11: forward those messages.

563
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 5: Yea. I spent over an hour with the Secretary, and

564
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 5: it was a very serious meeting, and he took the

565
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 5: issue very seriously rightly. So, I've known twelve Secretaries of

566
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 5: the Treasury, non US presidents. We've been recognized by five.

567
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 5: I've served three from both parties. This is the most

568
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 5: serious conversation that I can recall ever having with the

569
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 5: Secretary of the Treasury on this issue of financial literacy.

570
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 5: We covered a lot of ground. I'm going to answer

571
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 5: your question directly, but I intentionally did not cover tariffs

572
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,959
Speaker 5: with it because I knew that the President has had

573
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 5: this on his mind since nineteen eighty. He's been talking

574
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 5: about this as nineteen eighty. He's gonna do it one

575
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 5: way or another. Why put the secretary in a position

576
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 5: where he can't answer a question or is a question

577
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 5: that can't be answered? So let's you know it is

578
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 5: what it is. Let that go forward. There are a

579
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 5: lot of other things that can that we have more

580
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 5: control over, and that's gonna again play itself out the

581
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 5: way it plays itself out. The things that I did

582
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 5: engage him on he was completely transparent about. He wanted

583
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 5: to have constructive criticism, a critique. He wanted to know

584
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 5: how policies were affecting the average citizen. He wanted to

585
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 5: feedback on that on a regular basis. He understood that

586
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 5: this is a non partisan issue that you need. This

587
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 5: can't be something that gets put into some partisan discussion

588
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 5: where only one group supports it, that it will fail

589
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 5: that way. You need Republicans, the Democrats, blacks and whites,

590
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 5: rich and poor, urban and rural. You need my population

591
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 5: that I represent with the largest in the country to

592
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 5: embrace uh something it makes sense from the administration. So

593
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 5: he's very smart, I think to ask a group that

594
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 5: has fifteen hundred offices in the country and a polse

595
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 5: on what's going on for not only just help with

596
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 5: the program side and maybe we give him some policy

597
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 5: recommendations he might like he's invited those, but also to

598
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 5: help at the right time to to get this This

599
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 5: could be a This really could be a unifying issue

600
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 5: for the country and at a time where everybody argues

601
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 5: over is a is a dark outside? Is it light out?

602
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 5: Is that really light no, No, it's not light. Somebody's

603
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 5: lying to me, right, you know. I mean, you can't

604
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 5: get Somebody says something's up, somebody says no, that's down right.

605
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 5: Everybody's like in the are in the business of arguing,

606
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 5: and I think people are exhausted by it. By the way,

607
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 5: isn't it nice that there's a topic that actually most

608
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 5: people agree on? And I think and I think he

609
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 5: thinks financial literacy could be that issue that is a unifier. Uh. Now,

610
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 5: we we gotta get all the noise out the way,

611
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 5: the political noise and the partisanship out the way I have.

612
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 5: I I mean, people saw me meeting for the the

613
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 5: administration from what you call it my community, and folks

614
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 5: start coming at me with that, and I said, look,

615
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 5: trust me, sit down for a minute. I I tr

616
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 5: I've known this guy for a decade. He's a good man,

617
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 5: and just trust me. I think there's something we can

618
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 5: do here that's good for everybody. And they said, great,

619
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 5: well that has to happen. Everybody has to say this

620
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 5: is a radical movement of common sense. Uh, this is

621
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 5: something we can agree on, this is something we can

622
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 5: get done, and let's work on it. And that's his view,

623
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 5: and I was it was very refreshing. Actually, I didn't

624
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,479
Speaker 5: feel uncomfortable in any part of the meeting. M He

625
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 5: was himself, which is direct and transparent, and he was

626
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 5: squarely focused on this issue. But he also understood that

627
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 5: financial literacy ripples out into the broader economy. In other words,

628
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 5: he wasn't treating it as like a some trinket issue

629
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 5: or some some m marginal issue. Yeah.

630
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 3: Well, he referred to you as a longtime friend in

631
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 3: his posts supporting this idea on Financial Literacy Month, and

632
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 3: we appreciate your bringing us inside that conversation, John, because

633
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 3: you know, the presidents surrounded by a lot of different

634
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 3: people who have a lot of different ideas about all

635
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 3: of these things. And there were some pretty ugly tweets

636
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 3: that we saw posts on X from the likes of

637
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 3: Laura Lumer referred to you as a pro impeachment Trump hater.

638
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: Even Elon Musk retweeted that, calling it troubling.

639
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 3: And I'm wondering if you have any reaction to what

640
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 3: you heard there or if that might impact your relationship

641
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 3: with this administration.

642
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 5: I mean, what I believe is that the election's over

643
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 5: and he's a president of the United States. And as

644
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 5: I've said on multiple TV interviews and urban Black urban

645
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 5: radio interviews, if the president succeeds, we succeed. If the

646
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 5: president fails, we fail. What's complicated about this. Nobody should

647
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 5: be rooting for his failure. We should be trying to

648
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 5: help him succeed. That which is exactly why I r

649
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 5: I risked, you know, pushback from m a traditional my

650
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 5: traditional community to go and have this meeting, which I

651
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 5: thought was important on the first day of Financial Literacy Month.

652
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 5: And luckily, I mean, I'm getting very proud of the

653
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 5: black and brown community are very mature about it. They

654
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 5: were like, yeah, there's le It's not a black black

655
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 5: of brown John, as you said, it's about the green right,

656
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 5: It's not, you know, so go get us some green

657
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 5: Let's let's see what we get. And I and they

658
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 5: were and you know, doctor King's died, uh was assassinated

659
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 5: fifty seven years ago this month. And we were in

660
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 5: Memphis for that with Republicans by the way, and Democrats

661
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 5: and members of the Trump administration with us, and for

662
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 5: three hours, nobody said anything negative about anybody. I I

663
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 5: banned it. No no hating, no arguing, no nothing. And

664
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,439
Speaker 5: we were. It was about solutions in the business plan

665
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 5: for America. And of course doctor King died trying to

666
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 5: help poor whites, which is the largest population of poverty

667
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 5: in this country then and today. And we have a

668
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 5: business plan week CRED for rural America where a lot

669
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 5: of poor whites live. We have a business plan for

670
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 5: Black Americans and for women, and for Latinos, and for

671
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 5: Asians and for Native American Indians. And it's all published,

672
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 5: it's all transparent. You can download it, and a most

673
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 5: people are ready to go, wow, actually makes some sense.

674
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 5: I like this. It's something from me here. We've got

675
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 5: to get back to that conversation because the Bible says

676
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 5: a house divided cannot stand. We keep on with this ridiculousness,

677
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 5: ladies and gentlemen, and we want to worry about whether

678
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 5: we're hitting on each other. Cause everybody wants to be an American,

679
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 5: but Americans, well, we speak in Mandarin in twenty years,

680
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 5: because there are other countries that want to be US. China, Russia, Iran,

681
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 5: North Korea want our way of life and what we have.

682
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 5: They can only it can't get into fair fight. They

683
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 5: can only get it if we mess it up. And

684
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 5: we gotta figure out whether we're better together. That's what

685
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 5: doctor King believed. That's what I believe. So I you know,

686
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 5: what does life have to do with it? I mean,

687
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 5: this has to do with with are do we do

688
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 5: I really respect me? And learn to like me? That

689
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 5: like me? Never respect me? Right? And do we respect

690
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 5: each other? Because by the way, we need different views.

691
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 5: This country is made up this. I just were on

692
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 5: the way in here. I heard from my people that California,

693
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 5: which went from the fifth largest economy in the world

694
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 5: to the fourth largest economy ahead of Japan. Right, well, California,

695
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 5: I believe is the most diverse place in the United

696
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 5: States of America. And New York I believe you guys

697
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 5: are in New York is the second most biggest economy

698
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 5: right in the US, and it also is one of

699
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 5: the most diverse places. So I'm not I mean, diversity wins.

700
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 5: Diversity wins. And most, by the way, most people are immigrants,

701
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 5: including my European friends, and of course black peoples got

702
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 5: on the wrong boat. That's another conversation. I look, we

703
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 5: got we got to lighten the temperature. Light in the temperature,

704
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 5: and and and laser and laser and the focus on

705
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 5: what we are really about, what's the business plan for

706
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 5: this country and and how can we again, this is

707
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 5: the biggest economy in the world, and it's seventy percent

708
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 5: consumers spending. That's all of us doing better.

709
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 7: Well.

710
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 11: To return to the point you were just making on

711
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 11: everybody wants to be the United States of America. I

712
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 11: wonder what you make of the narrative that has been

713
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 11: working its way through financial market participants in the last

714
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 11: month or two about the end of US exceptionalism. Is

715
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 11: that the way you see it is that what these

716
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 11: policies could bring about.

717
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 5: I think every fifty to seventy maybe certainly one hundred years,

718
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 5: this country has an identity crisis. We had it with

719
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 5: the First Reconstruction, which was well, of course, we had

720
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 5: it with the War for our independence. But then you

721
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 5: had the first Reconstruction, which was slavery, right, that was

722
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 5: the decision, by the way, the Republican Party, people don't

723
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 5: know was built. It was birth on freedom and anti

724
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 5: slavery agenda. I don't know if we go know that that

725
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 5: was while Lincoln got so much heck, but that was

726
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 5: the first reconstruction. And then you had Frederick Douglas, a

727
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 5: black man working with Abraham Lincoln, a white man who

728
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 5: and Frederick douglasized Abraham Lincoln. But Lincoln was smart enough

729
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 5: to recognize with stuff he didn't know as smart as

730
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 5: he was, and he brought Frederick Douglas into the conversation.

731
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 5: At the end of the day, Fredid Dodullas made him

732
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 5: a better president. His council made him a better president.

733
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 5: That constructive friction, Lincoln realized was a good thing, not

734
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 5: just negative friction, constructive friction. Then we had the Second Reconstruction,

735
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 5: the Civil rights movement and Johnson President Johnson, who happened

736
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 5: even a Democrat did not like or did not get

737
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 5: along with, Doctor King. Doctor King got along with pretty

738
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 5: much everybody, but they but they figure out they were

739
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 5: better together that they ended up with four civil rights

740
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 5: bills by a guy who called people really interesting names.

741
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 5: I'm talking about Johnson. And then you had the third reconstruction,

742
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 5: which is what I think we're in today, twenty twenty

743
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 5: to twenty thirty. And so I'm not surprised that there's

744
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 5: all the country's basically going through a colonic I mean,

745
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 5: this is one, you know, one huge digestive exercise where

746
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 5: we gotta flush a lot of things through our system,

747
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 5: and we got to figure out, right, can you survive

748
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 5: hard right? And that's it? Can you survive hard left?

749
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 5: And that's it? I don't think so. I think most

750
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 5: people are actually massively in the middle. It's a radical

751
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 5: movement of common sense. They wanna pay their mortgage. They

752
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 5: wanna send their kid to college, right. They wanna start

753
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 5: a business or are uh, or go work for one.

754
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 5: They wanna go to the park with their kids. They

755
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 5: wanna enjoy their neighbors. They wanna they w I the

756
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 5: diversity actually is part of our magic sauce. It's just

757
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 5: that the diversity is a little darker these days, it's

758
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 5: a little bit more tan. But the diversity is all.

759
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 5: Do you know that women? You know, in nineteen seventy two,

760
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 5: a women did not have a bank could not get

761
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 5: a bank account nineteen sev not eighteen seventy two. After

762
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 5: in the Second Reconstruction, the furnive Action, which was created

763
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 5: for blacks, actually went to benefit white women. And I

764
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 5: say bravo. By the way, today women and w and

765
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 5: women couldn't get a a loan unless her husband guaranteed

766
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 5: it in nineteen seventy two. Today women are a third

767
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 5: of the US economy. If we hadn't done that, if

768
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 5: we hadn't had that debate and want it with common sense,

769
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 5: where would we be today? A third of all women

770
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 5: not grow is I think it's like seven trillion dollars

771
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 5: is the women's contribution to GDP. We'd be an also

772
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 5: ran country. We'd be a third run, a third world country.

773
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 5: As economically, here we go again. Half of this country,

774
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 5: forty percent of country is black and brown. I love Mathews,

775
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 5: doesn't have an opinion. Within ten years of your majority

776
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 5: of minorities, the largest group of baby boomers in the

777
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 5: history are beginning to retire. As you know, there's gonna

778
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 5: be one hundred trillion dollars wealth transfer the next ten

779
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 5: or twenty years. That's basically white wealthy people trying to

780
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 5: go play golf. At the same time, you know, the businesses,

781
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 5: who's gonna buy him the t the GDP, who's gonna

782
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 5: replace them? My rich friends need my poor friends do better,

783
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 5: if only to stay rich. And so this is what

784
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 5: I told the secretary. As you can't well, I'm sorry

785
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 5: I didn't tell secretary this part. I told TV this part.

786
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 5: You can't cut yourself alone out of this crisis. Yes,

787
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 5: there is waste, there is bloating. Let's get to that

788
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 5: in an intelligent way, not in a U, not in

789
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 5: a A. The hou is in as important as the

790
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 5: what we can be gracious about this. We can understand them.

791
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,919
Speaker 5: It's not the employee's fault. If they're working at a

792
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 5: agency that may not be efficient. Let's deal with that

793
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 5: in an intelligent way. Get that out of the way.

794
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 5: Now that's at the bottom third of the economy, and

795
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 5: make them capitalists and let them r just repair the

796
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 5: ladder and let them become a homeowner's forty four percent

797
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 5: of Black people own a home compared to seventy five

798
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 5: percent of their white counterparts. That's good for banks, for

799
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 5: them to become get financially illiterate. Right, then get the

800
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 5: credit score up. By the way, credit score increases of

801
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 5: a hundred points in Black America, loan it's worth a

802
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 5: h It's worth sep. Seven hundred and fifty billion dollars

803
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,439
Speaker 5: by twenty fifty three. Then you go buy homes. Forty

804
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 5: four percent to sixty percent home ownership for Black o

805
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 5: eric a loan that's good for eight hundred billion dollars.

806
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 5: That's one point five trillion dollars of wealth creation and

807
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 5: two to three percent of GDP increases every year. And

808
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 5: then you have business gr business acquisition. Baby boomers don't

809
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 5: want the businesses, well, sorry, the baby boomers are retire

810
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 5: that they want to give away the stocks, bonds of cash,

811
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 5: all that stuff in the homes. The family wants that.

812
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 5: The family don't want the businesses, well, let somebody buy

813
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 5: that business. That's a trillion dollars of wealth creation. And

814
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 5: AI artificial intelligence. I'm co chair with Sam Altman on

815
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 5: the AI Ethics Council, and i am co chair with

816
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 5: Douglan Billan of walmart on financial literacy for all this

817
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 5: is the civil rights and civil rights, these two things.

818
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 5: That's a trillion dollars. So that's three and a half

819
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 5: trillion dollars of new wealth creation by twenty fifty three,

820
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 5: twenty years or so, and two to three percent of

821
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 5: additional GDP. Who doesn't want that? I mean who when

822
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 5: the black person succeeds in this example, or the poor

823
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 5: rural white, or the woman, or the Latino or the

824
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 5: Asian yes here legally, when they succeed, all boats rise.

825
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: Who?

826
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 5: I mean, this is a radical movement of common sense.

827
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 5: I just think that no one's really having this conversation.

828
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 5: But this is the conversation, and that's why we wanted

829
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 5: you to be here.

830
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 2: John.

831
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 3: If we just let you keep talking, I feel like

832
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 3: you're gonna solve this for us right now, in this hour.

833
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 3: You know, there are very few people who come on

834
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 3: Bloomberg and we clear the decks for like this. At

835
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 3: some point we are gonna check the markets. But while

836
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 3: you're still with us live from Atlanta here. You know,

837
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 3: there's the old saying, if you're getting it on both sides,

838
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 3: you're doing something right. And I suspect that you feel

839
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 3: like that right now.

840
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: Would you go back to the secretary again, have your advice?

841
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 5: Mean, I'll come back, sure. I mean I was there

842
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 5: meeting with other folks a couple of weeks last week. Actually,

843
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 5: I mean, look, I'm gonna give him. I'm gonna give

844
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 5: him some some room and let him do his job.

845
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 5: He's helping to run the world economy. He knows my

846
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 5: number if if if he wants to call me, I'll answer.

847
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 5: But you know, let him have the room, let him

848
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 5: talk to some other people, let him. You know, we

849
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 5: have the largest infrastructure for financial literacy coaching in America.

850
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 5: We're not going anywhere, and we're the best in class,

851
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 5: and we're in urban community. Percent of our offices are

852
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 5: in white, poor rural communities, by the way, and they

853
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 5: don't care what color are. They just care why they're

854
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 5: getting their earning up, task credit, their credit score up,

855
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 5: the debt down. They're saving us up and the bank

856
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 5: says yes to an approval and the You know, so,

857
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 5: we have this infrastructure that's growing fifteen hundred offices total,

858
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 5: millions of clients, and we're here when the Secretary of

859
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 5: the Treasury and by extension, the administration has some make

860
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 5: sense things they like to do that we can be

861
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 5: helpful for it. If they don't need us, we'll go

862
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 5: on about our business.

863
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 6: All right.

864
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 11: We'll leave it on that note. John, Thank you so

865
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 11: much for being so generous with your time today. John

866
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Speaker 11: Hope Bryant Operation Hope, Inc. Chair, CEO and founder here

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Speaker 11: with us on Bloomberg TV and Radio.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.

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Speaker 3: at Bloomberg dot com.