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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get

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Speaker 1: to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today,

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Speaker 1: we've got former federal prosecutor and Marie veteran Joe Terrab,

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Speaker 1: who investigated the Feeding our Future, this Minnesota fraud scandal

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Speaker 1: that everyone's been talking about it. So he's just going

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Speaker 1: to share his unique frontline insight and to how it

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Speaker 1: exploded under Governor Tim Walls of Minnesota. And he said,

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Speaker 1: this this is how we put it. He said, the

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Speaker 1: big thing that jumped out to him was how easy

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Speaker 1: this fraud was to do. I could do that in

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Speaker 1: five minutes on a computer if I had absolutely no conscience.

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Speaker 1: So how was it allowed to go on for so long?

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Speaker 1: Why did politicians allow for it to go on for

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Speaker 1: so long? Well, they potentially get swept up in this investigation.

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Speaker 2: So we're going to dig in.

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Speaker 1: With someone who has seen this case up close, who investigated,

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Speaker 1: who prosecuted, who worked on this case. So stay tuned

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Speaker 1: for more on the Minnesota scandal. Joe, it's great to

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Speaker 1: have you on the show. This Minnesota fraud scandal has

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Speaker 1: been blowing up in the media and you had a

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Speaker 1: front row seat to it.

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Speaker 3: So appreciate you making the time.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate you having me on. Thanks a lot, Lisa.

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Speaker 1: So you said of this scandal that you were surprised

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Speaker 1: at how easy this fraud was to do. You know,

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Speaker 1: you could do that in five minutes on a computer

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Speaker 1: if you had absolutely no conscience.

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Speaker 3: Walk us through why was it so easy?

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Speaker 4: Well, there's a couple layers to that, I mean, stepping

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Speaker 4: back thirty thousand foot level. You had these massive government

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Speaker 4: programs in Minnesota here with the Federal Child Nutrition Program,

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Speaker 4: So money that was meant to go to feeding on

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Speaker 4: hungry kids, either in after school programs or summer school programs,

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Speaker 4: but you had a really stupid regulation, regulatory program to

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Speaker 4: disperse it. You had this purported watchdog organization called Feeding

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Speaker 4: Our Future, and they were purportedly the organization that was

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Speaker 4: supposed to be helping to feed a hungry kids. Well,

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Speaker 4: no one was watching this watchdog and so basically they

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Speaker 4: were getting kickbacks from different restaurants or other nonprofits to

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Speaker 4: say that, oh, you're feeding all these kids, when in actuality,

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Speaker 4: these kids were just made up. There were phantoms, they

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Speaker 4: were generating lists on kids that they were saying that

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Speaker 4: they're feeding. That just didn't even exist. They were generating

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Speaker 4: these fake and false, you know, backs up PDFs to

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Speaker 4: say that, oh yeah, we're buying all this food.

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Speaker 2: For these kids, and it was just totally made up.

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Speaker 4: And so in the same way that I can go

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Speaker 4: on my computer make up a PDF and saying that,

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Speaker 4: you know, I bought a thousand pounds of chicken or

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Speaker 4: one hundred gallons of milk to feed kids that I'm

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Speaker 4: not feeding.

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Speaker 2: It was all a lie. It was super super easy.

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Speaker 4: And so if you just had a government that cared

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Speaker 4: about where our money's going, that wouldn't have happened and

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Speaker 4: we wouldn't be out literally billions of dollars. And that's

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Speaker 4: the number that the former acting was attorney here in Minnesota,

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Speaker 4: Joe Thompson said that the numbers on the magnitude of

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Speaker 4: over nine billion billion with a bee. It's absolutely crazy.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've seen you know, the conviction of feeding

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Speaker 1: our future leader Amy Bach and more than fifty guilty police.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think it was allowed to go undetected

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Speaker 1: for so many years? Or how do you think one

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Speaker 1: undetected undetected for so long?

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Speaker 2: So part of.

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Speaker 4: It was, you know, during COVID, they just kind of

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Speaker 4: removed a lot of the auditing and any kind of

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Speaker 4: you know, checks and balances on it. So, you know, inditionally,

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Speaker 4: at least before COVID, there was supposed to be some

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Speaker 4: you know, site visits, actual physical visits. Well it kind

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Speaker 4: of went out the window over COVID. So just kind

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Speaker 4: of another reason how you know, waiting which COVID didn't

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Speaker 4: help things at all, or COVID lockdowns, i should say.

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Speaker 4: But then you had this really perverse incentive structure for

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Speaker 4: regulators or bureaucrats in Minnesota. So the agency in Minnesota,

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Speaker 4: the Minnesota Department of Education, was supposed to be kind

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Speaker 4: of overseeing the feeding our future organization that itself was

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Speaker 4: supposed to be overseeing other sites, and so you could

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Speaker 4: see where things could get lost in translation. But these

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Speaker 4: bureaucrats at the Minnesota Department of Education were incentivized to

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Speaker 4: just look the other way because when they did actually

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Speaker 4: end up putting up the smoke signal saying, hey, there's

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Speaker 4: some weird funny business here, like we're seeing exponential growth

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Speaker 4: in these federal child nutrition program funds being used when

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Speaker 4: like there's not a massive growth of kids or massive

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Speaker 4: growth and the needs for this when they put up

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Speaker 4: that smoke signal. What did feeding our Future do? Led

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Speaker 4: by Amy Bach, they alleged racism. They said to the court,

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Speaker 4: they said, you guys are being racists for shutting off

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Speaker 4: this money because we're feeding all these kids who are

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Speaker 4: Somali or Somali descent.

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Speaker 2: And that actually won the day for a while.

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Speaker 4: And so literally like a you know, crying wolf and

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Speaker 4: saying that that just not having money, a bunch of money,

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Speaker 4: you know, being being misspent and stolen, and somehow racism

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Speaker 4: actually led to this not being uncovered for for quite

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Speaker 4: a while.

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Speaker 1: But what does it say about the law that just

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Speaker 1: the simple charge of oh, you're being racist then prevented

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Speaker 1: further investigation or you know charges at the time.

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Speaker 4: You know, I don't know exactly what it says about

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Speaker 4: the law. I mean it definitely says something really terrible

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Speaker 4: about our politics. I mean, thankfully we've just seen kind

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Speaker 4: of depending on swing against wocism running up. But what

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Speaker 4: you had here in Minnesota, especially under Governor Tim Walls

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Speaker 4: and Attorney General Keith Ellison, I mean, if you have

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Speaker 4: the leaders at the top who are just talking about

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Speaker 4: everything in terms of the lens of oppressor and oppressed,

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Speaker 4: you're you're you're hearing things of that nature. It's it's

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Speaker 4: definitely going to set up the sentence structure for people

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Speaker 4: to feel a little bit more nervous about having lots

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Speaker 4: of audits and background on organizations that might be spending

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Speaker 4: money on people of Somali descent, for example. And so

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Speaker 4: that's just a dangerous situation and it didn't work out

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Speaker 4: well for the Minnesota taxpayer.

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Speaker 1: So what extent were Democrat politicians involved with some of

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Speaker 1: these people?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: Were they getting kickbacks, were they getting donations? Did some

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Speaker 1: of that potentially prevent further investigation?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you had this meeting. I think it was December of.

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Speaker 4: Twenty twenty one, it might be often the year, but

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Speaker 4: a few of these individuals met up with these fraudsters,

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Speaker 4: these co conspirators with each other, met up with Keith Ellison,

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Speaker 4: Attorney General, the person who's supposed to be upholding the

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Speaker 4: law in Minnesota. And I think Keith Ellison, you know,

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Speaker 4: he used to represent Minneapolis United States Congress, the same

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Speaker 4: district that now Ilanowa represents. Keith Ellison was I think

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Speaker 4: the deputy chair of the DMC. They these fraudsters set

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Speaker 4: up a meeting with Keith Allison, and this meeting was

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Speaker 4: recorded and we actually have the recording, and they were

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Speaker 4: trying to curry favor with Keith Elston.

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Speaker 2: They were saying, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, our money is very important and we can kind

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Speaker 4: of choose who we donate to, but we need to

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Speaker 4: make sure we have our attorney general who's fighting for us.

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Speaker 4: And really, just I mean, you don't even have to

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Speaker 4: look between the lines to see what they were trying

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Speaker 4: to do. They were trying to get Keith Ellison to

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Speaker 4: the extent that he was doing anything, which he really

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Speaker 4: wasn't like not put the spotlight on what's going on

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Speaker 4: with this these federal child musician funds and all this

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Speaker 4: fraud that's happening in Minnesota. And so they donate a

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Speaker 4: bunch of money to him. Now he'll say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 4: well I gave it all back. Okay, fine, okay, you

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Speaker 4: gave a bunch of it back. Well why why were

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Speaker 4: they the people doing that they could donate money to

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Speaker 4: you and curry favor to you. And so that's very

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Speaker 4: concerning and I would hope and wish that more people

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Speaker 4: knew about that.

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Speaker 3: You know, at what point do you think you know?

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Speaker 1: Because there were, you know, whistle blowers and auditors of

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Speaker 1: raised concerns, you know, raised concerns years before arrests were made.

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Speaker 1: You know what point did state officials have enough information

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Speaker 1: to stop this fraud?

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Speaker 2: Well, they definitely had it early enough.

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Speaker 4: I remember there were points at which it was clear

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Speaker 4: that the state had this information. Keith Ellison, I remember,

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Speaker 4: even in the heat of I think it was a

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty two attorney general race against a guy who

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Speaker 4: I happened to be a good friend of mine, Jim Schultz,

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Speaker 4: bringing from attorney general in Minnesota, Keith Ellison was making

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Speaker 4: statements during debates that were absolutely false, saying, oh, well,

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Speaker 4: we were working hand in hand with the you know,

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Speaker 4: the federal regulators and prosecutors like myself and federal investigators.

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Speaker 4: We were working hand in hand with them from the

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Speaker 4: get go. You know, No, they weren't. They just weren't.

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Speaker 4: And this has kind of been an open secret unfortunately

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Speaker 4: in Minnesota that a lot of this fraud has been happening.

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Speaker 2: For many, many years.

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Speaker 4: I mean, people have been calling this out since I

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Speaker 4: think at least the year at twenty fourteen. There's a

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Speaker 4: lot of childcare fraud amongst folks mostly of Somali descent

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Speaker 4: here in Minnesota running these childcare organizations that we're either

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Speaker 4: massively over billing or just totally making up numbers saying yeah,

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Speaker 4: we're actually you know, we're providing childcare for all these kids,

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Speaker 4: but it really wasn't happening. Well, a lot of this

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Speaker 4: fraud is just kind of transformed over over time childcare,

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Speaker 4: but then it was feeding you know, federal childeutician program funds,

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Speaker 4: and then it was housing stabilization funds. You know, I've

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Speaker 4: heard of an interpretation interpret fraud autism fraud saying oh,

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Speaker 4: we're running these autism clinics and helping kids.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, you're actually not.

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Speaker 4: There's providing kickbacks of families to say that their kids

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Speaker 4: had autism when they actually didn't. I mean, just so

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Speaker 4: when you have all these government programs that are supposed

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Speaker 4: to be helping people, but you set it up where

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Speaker 4: it's just so easy to steal and so easy to falsify,

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Speaker 4: and unfortunately you can't do the honor system with folks

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Speaker 4: who aren't honorable.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think Minnesota is more susceptible to fraud?

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Speaker 4: That is well, is this going to say the million

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Speaker 4: dollar question? But maybe actually the billion dollar question of

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Speaker 4: the billions dollar question, Gosh, I wish I knew, because

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Speaker 4: it's really shameful. I mean, I'm proud of being in Minnesota,

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Speaker 4: and I was born racer in Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: I think we have.

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Speaker 4: Statistically like the highest levels of like education, and we're

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Speaker 4: healthy and we read and we're like we're just you know,

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Speaker 4: we're pretty like connected state. You know, very proud about

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Speaker 4: being in Minnesota. But I think when you kind of

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Speaker 4: have these big government set up aid programs in Minnesota

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Speaker 4: which very much kind of are based off the honor

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Speaker 4: system in many ways, and really they shouldn't be. I mean,

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Speaker 4: things of the honor system are meant for a society

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Speaker 4: where there's a lot of trusts and you're not going

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Speaker 4: to have an infusion of people that might take advantage

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Speaker 4: of it, unfortunately, and that's just kind of what we had.

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Speaker 4: We had a bunch of people who were just willing

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Speaker 4: to cheat the system now where there's no virtue. You

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Speaker 4: need virtue in a democracy, and unfortunately we just had

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Speaker 4: a lot of folks who didn't have any virtue here.

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Speaker 4: And you had Amy Bach running the whole thing. She's

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Speaker 4: not of Somali descent, herself. But you had a lot

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Speaker 4: of folks in this tight knit community and people of

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Speaker 4: Somali descent who are just willing to take advantage of

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Speaker 4: the system. And it's not, you know, only people of

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Speaker 4: Somality descent who are communitists this kind of fraud. But

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Speaker 4: here in Minnesota, you just had that and it's just

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Speaker 4: really really hard to explain.

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Speaker 1: You got to take a quick commercial break more on

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Speaker 1: this Minnesota fraud scandal. We're talking some of this money

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Speaker 1: was spent on luxury homes, overseas travel, there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of foreign transfer of money overseas as well. Kind

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Speaker 1: of walk us through some of the more egregious examples

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Speaker 1: that you saw in the way that this money was

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Speaker 1: spent and the things it was spent on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, when I was on the case and for some

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Speaker 4: amount of time, my focus in the team was to

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Speaker 4: focus on this cluster called the Jigjiga cluster, and that

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Speaker 4: cluster surrounded three individuals. But one of one of the individuals,

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Speaker 4: his name is leban Ala Schier.

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Speaker 2: He stole a bunch of money over a million dollars,

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Speaker 2: can't remember.

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Speaker 4: The exact amount, but he sent a bunch of the

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Speaker 4: money and spent it on you know, a building complex

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Speaker 4: in Kenya.

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Speaker 2: He bought a resort in Kenya.

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Speaker 4: He bought you know, fancy car and a new fancy house,

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Speaker 4: all these things, you know, But people throughout this fraud

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Speaker 4: scandal bought tons of fancy cars and things. And it's

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Speaker 4: not as if we should be a society where you

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Speaker 4: punishing people for doing well and buying things that you

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Speaker 4: can afford. But when you're stealing government money and then

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Speaker 4: buying fancy cars and fancy resorts, that's it's not acceptable

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Speaker 4: and people should be appalled by it.

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Speaker 3: I mean it should be. You know, it's not that

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Speaker 3: it came to this.

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Speaker 1: You know, how well taxpayer is be able to recover

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Speaker 1: the money at all, or how much can be recovered

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Speaker 1: At this point.

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Speaker 4: You know, a good chunk of the money has been

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Speaker 4: I guess clawed back if you will. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 4: know in the Feeding our Future fraud investigation and prosecution

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Speaker 4: that number that Feeding our Future was responsible was about

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Speaker 4: two hundred and fifty million dollars at least in fraud,

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Speaker 4: and I think we hadn't clawed back or gotten back.

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Speaker 2: I think over seventy billion of it.

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Speaker 4: So you're never going to get back that much money,

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Speaker 4: because a lot of money just went out the door.

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Speaker 4: It was just stolen. It was bought with all these

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Speaker 4: things that you're not going to get back. But the

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Speaker 4: government can seize back boats, houses, cars to extent that

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Speaker 4: we can grab it, and even some things like in

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Speaker 4: foreign countries if someone's willing to play guilty and give

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Speaker 4: that up.

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Speaker 2: So it's definitely not enough.

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Speaker 4: I mean a lot of money is just never going

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Speaker 4: to get back, and especially with this number that assistant

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Speaker 4: he was, attorney Joe Thompson mentioned recently last week in

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Speaker 4: a press conference. You know, nine billion dollars of this

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Speaker 4: of this money is just out the door. You know,

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Speaker 4: we're not going to get you know, probably two percent

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Speaker 4: of that back. I mean, we're not going to get

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Speaker 4: hardly any of it. Just all wasted, all wasted.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: There is a report in the City Journal last month

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Speaker 1: claiming that some of the money indirectly benefited out Shabab.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen any evidence of that or how do

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Speaker 1: you what do you make of that and that allegation.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think the evidence that the Tiny Journal

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Speaker 4: had talked about was, I mean, not to use a

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Speaker 4: pun here as self evident. I mean, the money did

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Speaker 4: go to some of those organizations. Now, whether or not

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Speaker 4: people here in Minnesota took the money from the government

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Speaker 4: with the intent to give it to El Shabab, It's

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Speaker 4: it's hard to prove intent like that, I mean, but

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Speaker 4: a lot of the money was stolen, was illicitly gotten,

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Speaker 4: and it did go to El Shabob, and that's just

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Speaker 4: like a really sad thing as well. But Wow, we're

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Speaker 4: having all this money that was meant to go to

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Speaker 4: Minnesotan's in Minnesota and then it goes to a terrorist organization.

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Speaker 4: It very much reminds me of I was in the

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Speaker 4: Marine Corps for five years on active duty as a

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Speaker 4: JAG officer, and I deployed once to Iraq to help

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Speaker 4: our effort President Trump's effort to defeat and destroy ISIS,

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Speaker 4: And my job was as an operational law attorney, was

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Speaker 4: to just give advice on our strikes against ISIS, And

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Speaker 4: I remember seeing reports in that timeframe.

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Speaker 2: This is like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 4: It's about how the one state that sent the most

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Speaker 4: fighters foreign fighters to fight for ISIS out of any

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Speaker 4: state in our Union, was Minnesota. So this is wild

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Speaker 4: to me that Minnesota is sending all this money or sorry.

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Speaker 4: At that time, all people to fight for ISIS And

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Speaker 4: now we're seeing all this money getting sent from what state?

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Speaker 2: Minnesota?

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Speaker 4: And unfortunately it's just because we have a lot of

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Speaker 4: folks here who happen to be of Somali descent who

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Speaker 4: are sending this money over and it's really really our stomach.

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Speaker 1: Do you think this is happening in other states and

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Speaker 1: it's just you know, yet to be discovered or you know,

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Speaker 1: what is your good tell you?

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Speaker 2: I think it is happening in other states.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think when you have one party rule

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Speaker 4: or you have a state, unfortunately here in Minnesota where

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Speaker 4: you've had Democrat control for a while, maybe people feel

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Speaker 4: over confident and it feel like they're just gonna be

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Speaker 4: you can get to get away with it. So maybe

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Speaker 4: to accept that other states, you know, i've had you know,

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Speaker 4: more bite partnership, I guess we'll say, like maybe it's

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Speaker 4: just a little bit harder to do. But I'm sure

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Speaker 4: it's happening in other states, and I'm seeing more reports

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Speaker 4: of that now. But somehow Minnesota was was the worst

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Speaker 4: of it, and I think, yeah, so it definitely is

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Speaker 4: happening in other states.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting too, What did you make of sort of

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Speaker 1: like the initial I mean, obviously people you know, have

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Speaker 1: known about this for a while, but you know, we

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Speaker 1: saw like Tim Walls and Keith Ellison get pressed a

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Speaker 1: little bit more from the media. You know, sort of

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Speaker 1: what do you make of their handling of this and

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Speaker 1: sort of the excuses and really sort of like the

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Speaker 1: lack of accountability anyone's taking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's a big thing that Walls likes

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Speaker 2: to do.

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Speaker 4: Is he likes to say that, oh yeah, kind of

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Speaker 4: the buck stops with me and I'm the one, you know, responsible,

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Speaker 4: but he'll just like kind of conveniently not actually take responsibility.

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Speaker 2: And that's exactly what he's done here.

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Speaker 4: Even he had a kind of a clap back, I

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Speaker 4: guess you could say, to what assist US attorney Joe

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Speaker 4: Tad And when Joe Thompson mentioned last week that he

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Speaker 4: believed the fraud could you know, be over nine billion dollars,

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Speaker 4: I think Tim Walls said, well, you know, they can

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Speaker 4: throw at numbers, but and then refer to him taking responsibility, Well, no,

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Speaker 4: he hasn't at all, and maybe he should have been

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Speaker 4: doing more early on, once it seemed clear that this

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Speaker 4: kind of fraud was happening. I guess I mentioned it earlier,

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Speaker 4: but I didn't even finish the point of saying that.

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Speaker 4: Like it's been an open secret in Minnesota. This kind

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Speaker 4: of fraud has been happening going back to many, many years,

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Speaker 4: and so these folks knew about it, like Keith Ellison

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Speaker 4: knew about it. Walls knew about it, but they just

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Speaker 4: didn't care to do much about it. Maybe because you know,

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Speaker 4: that's a pretty important voting block for Democrats in Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: You know, Ihan Omar isn't.

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Speaker 4: The congresswoman from the fifth district representing Downtow Minneapolis for

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Speaker 4: no reason.

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Speaker 2: She's there.

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Speaker 4: There's a very large semi population. So maybe Keith Ellison

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Speaker 4: and Tim Walls didn't want to be seen as being

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Speaker 4: too anti Somali for whatever reason. I mean, even my

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Speaker 4: former boss, former US Attorney Andy Luger, took a lot

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Speaker 4: of hits, I think, even from Ilhan Omar regarding his

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Speaker 4: handling of prosecuting foreign fighters who are coming from Minnesota

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Speaker 4: going to the Middle East that fights for ISIS, and

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Speaker 4: he was labeled as anti you know, anti Somali, which

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Speaker 4: is just a bunch of malarkey, and so definitely they've

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Speaker 4: been not actually taking responsibility and they should have been

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Speaker 4: from the get go.

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Speaker 1: Do you think, I mean, in terms of where we

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Speaker 1: are now with this story, like we're not done yet,

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Speaker 1: right Like do you think things will continue to break

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Speaker 1: or sort of wors your perspective on where this story

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Speaker 1: is heading?

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Speaker 4: Mean, look, if you if assistant Answertory Joe Thompson is

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Speaker 4: saying that the fraud is going over nine billion pyers

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Speaker 4: and right now, I think just the am charged. I

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Speaker 4: don't have the exact number, but it's nothing close to that.

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Speaker 4: It might be, you know, around it's definitely above two

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Speaker 4: hundred and fifty million, but is below one billion, so

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Speaker 4: somewhere in that range.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot more fraud yet to be charged.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's just kind of what nine billion is

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Speaker 4: like the understanding of how much money was stolen, But

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Speaker 4: that's not how much money has been charged right now.

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Speaker 4: So there's a lot more to happen, a lot more

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Speaker 4: shoes to drop. I think the questions that need to

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Speaker 4: be answered is more specifically like what does you know

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Speaker 4: and when does you know it? I'm part of Tim

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Speaker 4: Walls and Keith Ellison and other leaders.

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Speaker 2: What does you know? And when did you know it?

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Speaker 2: And we're going to see a lot more.

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Speaker 4: I hope that the fraud isn't going to get too

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Speaker 4: much bigger than what we've seen, because I just as

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Speaker 4: a person who pays taxes, I want to know that

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Speaker 4: my money is not being absolutely wasted. I know it's

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Speaker 4: like in many large way wasted, but I hope there's

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Speaker 4: a little there's a cap on that.

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Speaker 3: So do you think any politicians could be swept up

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Speaker 3: in this?

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned want sort of you know, Tim Walls

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Speaker 1: and Keith Ellison to be sort of further questioned and

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Speaker 1: a little bit more investigative work in that regard, do

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Speaker 1: you think politicians could get swept up in this?

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Speaker 2: I mean they could for sure get swept up into

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Speaker 2: this in terms.

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Speaker 4: Of you know, what did they do when when they

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Speaker 4: learned various pieces of information? I mean neilan Omar as

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Speaker 4: well what she knows and so yeah, I mean, as

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Speaker 4: I know Chairman Comber, I think of the huss Oversight

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Speaker 4: Committee is conducting an investigation right now. I know that

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Speaker 4: more questions are going to be asked. People are stondent

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Speaker 4: going to have to be put under oath and are

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Speaker 4: going to have to be telling the truth about what

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Speaker 4: about what happened even this meeting with Keith Ellison a

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Speaker 4: couple of years ago where various frosters were attempting to

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Speaker 4: curry favor with Keith Elison, Like what happened there? Like

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Speaker 4: did they try to give him any money, you know,

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Speaker 4: to carer any favor?

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Speaker 2: Like what else happened? What other promises were made?

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Speaker 4: We need to know the answers to these questions because

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Speaker 4: these are people who are currently in charge and are

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Speaker 4: currently supposed to be handling our money well and clearly

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Speaker 4: they're not.

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Speaker 1: No, And that's what it really infuriates a lot of Americans.

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Speaker 1: You know, before we go, are there guardrails we can

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Speaker 1: put in place to protect tax for money in these instances?

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Speaker 1: Like sort of what sort of reforms do you think

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Speaker 1: we could do? And having sort of seen this up close, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 4: Mean this needs to be more checks and balances. We

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Speaker 4: can't expect like I mentioned some of these programs. We

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Speaker 4: even have a new one coming up in Minnesota, this

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Speaker 4: Paige Family Medical Leave.

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Speaker 2: But this is going to be so easy to the fraud.

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Speaker 2: There's got to be more checks and balances. There has

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Speaker 2: to be more oversight and auditing.

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Speaker 4: Honestly, you just like, we're not saying that the government

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Speaker 4: spending should go down to zero, but if there is

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Speaker 4: any government spending or government programs that are helping folks

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Speaker 4: who are in need, you need to make sure that

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Speaker 4: there's some teeth in auditing and teeth in the in

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Speaker 4: the way that you make sure that the money is

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Speaker 4: going to the right places. You can't have situations where,

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Speaker 4: for example, of a person is saying that they're feeding

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00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 4: two thousand kids in a certain town when there's actually

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00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 4: the town that has a popular should have one thousand people,

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00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 4: which is not the exact numbers, but that's kind of

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Speaker 4: what that's actually what happened in Minnesota, where things were

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Speaker 4: totally off kilter and didn't make any sense.

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Speaker 2: And then you have to have the ability to.

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Speaker 4: Have bureaucrats who do have some honor, who do raise

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Speaker 4: a flag and say something's going on here.

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Speaker 2: You have to give them the ability to actually shut

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Speaker 2: off the money.

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Speaker 4: And you have to make it so that you know,

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Speaker 4: fake claims of racism aren't going to stop that from happening.

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Speaker 1: So appreciate your time and appreciate your service both as

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Speaker 1: a federal prosecutor and also as a marine.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Thank you so much, Lisa, Thanks.

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Speaker 3: Jo, thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 1: That was Joe, Tara appreciate him for making the time.

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Speaker 1: AP pursiate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday

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Speaker 1: and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. I

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Speaker 1: also want to thank our producer John Cassio for putting

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Speaker 1: the show together.

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Speaker 3: Until next time.