1
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:14,720
Speaker 1: Y'all. Laura Engle and I we recorded last week and

2
00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,079
Speaker 1: now we've got breaking news, so we had to come

3
00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,480
Speaker 1: back together to breathe y'all on what has happened out

4
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:26,759
Speaker 1: of Oklahoma. Arrest have been made of four people, and

5
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,960
Speaker 1: Laura Ingle's going to be here live again to break

6
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,080
Speaker 1: this all down, So y'all just hang on. Part two

7
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,160
Speaker 1: starts right now. So Laura, you have laid it out

8
00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,400
Speaker 1: for us because again you have been there in person,

9
00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,559
Speaker 1: boots on the ground. But now we have got breaking

10
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:51,280
Speaker 1: news that they have arrested four people. Tell us who

11
00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:52,320
Speaker 1: has been arrested.

12
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,120
Speaker 2: Well, we have got a stunning turn of events. We

13
00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 2: you know, we've long been talking about the idea that

14
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,400
Speaker 2: a member could have been involved in the disappearance of

15
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,840
Speaker 2: these two women because of the bitter custody battle, and

16
00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,679
Speaker 2: in fact, Grandma, the woman that we had been talking

17
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,480
Speaker 2: about all along, is in fact one of the four

18
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:19,679
Speaker 2: that was arrested. Tiffany Adams and her boyfriend Tad and

19
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,760
Speaker 2: their friends Cole and Cora Twombly, who live in the

20
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:30,839
Speaker 2: general area of where Tiffany Adams lived. And we did

21
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,040
Speaker 2: hear that remain bodies have been found, but we are

22
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,200
Speaker 2: being kept. You know, there's not a lot of details

23
00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:45,280
Speaker 2: yet in terms of exactly what happened, but now the

24
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,520
Speaker 2: devastating probable cause. Affidavid lays out some items that were

25
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 2: found near the car of where Veronica Butler, Veronica Butler's

26
00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,600
Speaker 2: SUV that she was driving in with Gillian Kelly. There

27
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,320
Speaker 2: are devastating items that we did not know about, and

28
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,880
Speaker 2: you know, the OSBI has been keeping us in the dark,

29
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 2: obviously for good reason. But we're hearing about stun guns,

30
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,679
Speaker 2: we're hearing about her that Veronica Butler's glasses were found

31
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 2: on the side of the road, pools of blood. So

32
00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,480
Speaker 2: you know that there were burner phones that were purchased.

33
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,760
Speaker 2: There's a lot going on here that really paint a

34
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:23,800
Speaker 2: different picture and.

35
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,280
Speaker 1: Absolutely paints the picture of a conspiracy. There's no doubt

36
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,200
Speaker 1: about it. And you and I talked not just why

37
00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,560
Speaker 1: you were live from Oklahoma, but we also had a

38
00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,560
Speaker 1: chance to be together in New York at the Hamptons

39
00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,080
Speaker 1: who done it over the weekend, and it was so

40
00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,400
Speaker 1: unbelievable to me. You and I were in a session

41
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,600
Speaker 1: where Joe Scott Morgan was speaking, and he was speaking

42
00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:53,720
Speaker 1: about a case where the grandmother was the mastermind of

43
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 1: killing other family members, and the motive was the children.

44
00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,560
Speaker 1: And you and I just looked at each other because

45
00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 1: we're like, that's what we've been saying. When you're looking

46
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,480
Speaker 1: at means motive and opportunity. The biggest motive here are

47
00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:14,519
Speaker 1: those children. You don't fight with anybody for nine years

48
00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,480
Speaker 1: unless it's something you're willing to. I mean, go to

49
00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,080
Speaker 1: the wall and through the fire.

50
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,760
Speaker 2: For we have been well, you know, longer than I

51
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,520
Speaker 2: have being an investigator. Just the stories that we hear

52
00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,959
Speaker 2: over and over again about you know, I was talking

53
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,720
Speaker 2: to a private investigator in Oklahoma and she was telling

54
00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 2: me about the long list of things that she deals with,

55
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,720
Speaker 2: which has many and she said, the single most violent

56
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 2: thing that we handle in our office with our investigators

57
00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 2: as child custody, it's over my dead body, you will

58
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,440
Speaker 2: not get this child. And it sounds like that's the

59
00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,680
Speaker 2: mentality laid out There's I mean, there's a lot of

60
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,720
Speaker 2: information in this probable cause Affidavid for the arrest warrants,

61
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,080
Speaker 2: and you know, we've got to do it to a

62
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,160
Speaker 2: hat tip, and I'm sure that you'll get there as

63
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,920
Speaker 2: we read through this that it was a family member

64
00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,040
Speaker 2: the daughter of Cora Twombly. The friends. So there's like

65
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,960
Speaker 2: there's Tiffany Adams and her boyfriend Tad, and then there's

66
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,480
Speaker 2: this couple that they're friends with, and it was the

67
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,920
Speaker 2: daughter cw Is, the daughter of Cora Twombly and Kobe White.

68
00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,400
Speaker 2: It sounds like was a key player in giving investigators

69
00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,800
Speaker 2: information about this case and laws.

70
00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,440
Speaker 1: She's sixteen years old.

71
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,039
Speaker 2: It's unbelievable.

72
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 1: You've got these four people that came together and conspired

73
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:39,480
Speaker 1: to kill somebody in order to get that person's children.

74
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,240
Speaker 1: And the sad part is now those children have none

75
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,400
Speaker 1: of these people. And when you have a mob mentality

76
00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:51,040
Speaker 1: and you say things like tasers and burger phones and

77
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,760
Speaker 1: blood evidence, that would suggest to me that what happened

78
00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,680
Speaker 1: there was chaotic and violent, and that's why people couldn't

79
00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:03,800
Speaker 1: keep up with all the things that they brought with

80
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,719
Speaker 1: them and things were left behind, not on purpose, but

81
00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,400
Speaker 1: because it was just chaos. You probably had, you know,

82
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,560
Speaker 1: two of the people screaming at the victims, and the

83
00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,039
Speaker 1: victims are screaming and they're tussling and things are happening.

84
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,320
Speaker 1: So it's no shock to me. The glasses were off,

85
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 1: I think and tell me what you think from reading

86
00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 1: the affidavit as well. But I think they might have

87
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:33,360
Speaker 1: possibly bum rushed them a little bit, and whenever things

88
00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,840
Speaker 1: went down, somebody was tased, somebody might have been punched

89
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,360
Speaker 1: and hit, so there was blood evidence. But I think

90
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,000
Speaker 1: they were actually murdered at another place, a separate location.

91
00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,800
Speaker 2: You know, we originally thought that something happened there on

92
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 2: that side of the road, and I was telling you

93
00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,159
Speaker 2: about it, and I've been reporting on it that Rode

94
00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,600
Speaker 2: l And Highway ninety five. When we heard that the

95
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,240
Speaker 2: vehicle was found there, you know, we thought it was

96
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 2: right there at the intersection, just kind of off the

97
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 2: main highway. But Rode ol it was one thousand feet

98
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,839
Speaker 2: in so that that's where the vehicle was found. But

99
00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,359
Speaker 2: I just want to read just one part of this.

100
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,520
Speaker 2: On April first, this is the probable cause affidavit that

101
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,560
Speaker 2: OSBI agents obtained a search warrant for Adam's cellular phone

102
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,240
Speaker 2: and OSBI agents performed an extraction on the device. Information

103
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,680
Speaker 2: gained from the device included web searches for taser pain level,

104
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 2: gun shops, prepaid cellular phones, and how to get someone

105
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,640
Speaker 2: out of their house. But the taser pain level somebody

106
00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,200
Speaker 2: wanted to know. She wanted to know. According to investigators,

107
00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,560
Speaker 2: this is what is in black and white in front

108
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:49,440
Speaker 2: of us in this multi page Affidavid that she searched

109
00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:51,760
Speaker 2: taser pain level.

110
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:57,880
Speaker 1: Why torture? In my opinion, Laura, if you've got four

111
00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:03,320
Speaker 1: people that are armed with a firearm or two, and

112
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,719
Speaker 1: you've got two women with no weapons, that's easy to

113
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,680
Speaker 1: take control of those folks. All you got to do

114
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 1: is stick the gun in their face. They're gonna do

115
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 1: whatever you say to do. If you tell them we've

116
00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,160
Speaker 1: got your children at another location. If you don't get

117
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,480
Speaker 1: in this car, whoever's with your children are going to

118
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,280
Speaker 1: kill them. They would have got in the car easy.

119
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:30,320
Speaker 1: That taser, in my opinion, was to torture, was to

120
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,679
Speaker 1: control them early, make them do what they were told

121
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,080
Speaker 1: and get in the truck. But again, that wasn't necessary.

122
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:44,000
Speaker 1: You didn't have to have it. When you hear law

123
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:49,680
Speaker 1: enforcement during the press conference, he used the word brutal.

124
00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 1: It was a brutal, sing well, that ain't a single

125
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 1: gunshot to the chest. Brutal to me signifies multiple injury.

126
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,840
Speaker 2: There are indications here in this Affidavid as well, that

127
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 2: you know the father wrangler Rickman, who was in the

128
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,840
Speaker 2: court appointed drug rehab at the time of this apparent ambush,

129
00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 2: he had told his grandmother, Debbie Knox Davis, named in

130
00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:22,440
Speaker 2: the Affidavid, that in mid to late February, Rickman told

131
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,160
Speaker 2: her they weren't going to have to worry about the

132
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,600
Speaker 2: custody battle much longer because quote, Adams had it under control,

133
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,680
Speaker 2: and that Adams knew the path. The judge walked to

134
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,760
Speaker 2: work and quote, we will take out Veronica at drop off.

135
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,800
Speaker 2: He was, you know. It states that he was in

136
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,600
Speaker 2: the rehabilitation facility in Oklahoma City at the time of

137
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,640
Speaker 2: the disappearance. The children had remained in the custody of Adams,

138
00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,160
Speaker 2: and then Rickman denied having that conversation with NOx. So

139
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,560
Speaker 2: it sounds like Debbie Knox talked, Debbi Knox Davis talked,

140
00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,600
Speaker 2: and then they went back to Rickman and he said,

141
00:08:57,679 --> 00:08:59,920
Speaker 2: I didn't have that conversation. But that's what the other

142
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,839
Speaker 2: grandma had to say, was that Adams had said, We're

143
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,880
Speaker 2: going to take Veronica at drop off, take her out,

144
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:09,400
Speaker 2: and that was in February.

145
00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,959
Speaker 1: There's no way I'm ever gonna believe that people were

146
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,040
Speaker 1: fighting over children for nine years and there ain't threats

147
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,160
Speaker 1: all over creation. When you and I were in New York,

148
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,760
Speaker 1: we did a short video that you put out where

149
00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,520
Speaker 1: we talked about the electronic devices are going to be

150
00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,680
Speaker 1: a money tree. They bought things, they talked about buying things.

151
00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,640
Speaker 1: They talked about how they were going to get together.

152
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 1: They talked about burner phones. They looked up burner phones.

153
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,680
Speaker 1: But this was not the first plan that they put

154
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,439
Speaker 1: together to kill this victim. Back in February, they had

155
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,320
Speaker 1: a plan to kill her. Tell everybody what that was about.

156
00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,200
Speaker 2: I mean, according to this Alfhidavid, CW, the daughter of

157
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,960
Speaker 2: Cora Twombly, remember sixteen years old, has apparently told investigators,

158
00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 2: because it's right here in the Affidavid, that she talked

159
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,439
Speaker 2: to her mom about what happened and she said it

160
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,120
Speaker 2: says c W asked Cora what happened and was told

161
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 2: things did not go as planned, but they would not

162
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,160
Speaker 2: have to worry about her.

163
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:11,720
Speaker 1: Butler.

164
00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:16,560
Speaker 2: Again, CW was told that Cora and Cole blocked the

165
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,120
Speaker 2: road to stop Butler and Kelly and divert them to

166
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,400
Speaker 2: where Adam's, Cullum and Grys were. So there's some other

167
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 2: names here, But to your point about another plan. C

168
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,720
Speaker 2: W also disclosed that other attempts to kill Butler occurred

169
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,400
Speaker 2: during February of twenty twenty four near Hewitton, Kansas, in

170
00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,439
Speaker 2: which Adam's Cullum, Cole, Cora, and Gryce as a big

171
00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,160
Speaker 2: group here went to Butler's home. So, this group of

172
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:48,160
Speaker 2: adults went to the home of Veronica Butler and they

173
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:49,880
Speaker 2: were trying to figure out how to get her out

174
00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,720
Speaker 2: of their house. Because according to Cora, the plan was

175
00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:57,680
Speaker 2: to throw an Anneville through Butler's windshield while she was

176
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,800
Speaker 2: driving to make it look like an act accident because

177
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,520
Speaker 2: anvil's regularly fall off of work vehicles.

178
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,679
Speaker 1: Now I want y'all to understand what is happening. We

179
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:15,800
Speaker 1: have confirmation through this paperwork that in February they were

180
00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,200
Speaker 1: plotting and planning a murder to make it look like

181
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,400
Speaker 1: she's just driving down the road and something fell off

182
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,640
Speaker 1: a work truck went through her windshield and killed her.

183
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,880
Speaker 1: What we have here is, oh, they might have been

184
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 1: having car trouble, pulled off the side of the road.

185
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,880
Speaker 1: Who in the world would have got them? That's what

186
00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,199
Speaker 1: it almost looks like their plans obviously, I mean, I

187
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,440
Speaker 1: think it's an understatement. When she says, well, it didn't

188
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,120
Speaker 1: go as planned, no kidding. But my concern here is

189
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,600
Speaker 1: you've listed names of people that have not been arrested yet.

190
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,960
Speaker 1: We don't know how why this is going. We don't

191
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,959
Speaker 1: know how many people have information of other murder plots

192
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,560
Speaker 1: that maybe they just for whatever reason couldn't do those either.

193
00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:00,079
Speaker 1: Because in nine years they're just now going to kill.

194
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 1: That tells me that they believed they were going to

195
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,320
Speaker 1: lose custody back to her at the court date that

196
00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:08,520
Speaker 1: was coming up this week.

197
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 2: And let me ask you this, Cheryl, I want to

198
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 2: ask you a question I am looking at I'm surprised

199
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,560
Speaker 2: that this alfidevit has so many names in it that's

200
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,079
Speaker 2: not redacted. I mean, these people's names are out there.

201
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,960
Speaker 2: They live in that town. We've been talking about what

202
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,560
Speaker 2: it's like out there. I mean, is this unusual to

203
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,360
Speaker 2: have all these names listed.

204
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,559
Speaker 1: Listen, you're talking about a town or two hundred and

205
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,320
Speaker 1: eighty one people they already know, they already know. There

206
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,280
Speaker 1: were people in the town that knew when you were there,

207
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,319
Speaker 1: you knew it. There were people that probably didn't want

208
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,960
Speaker 1: to talk because they knew these folks to be violent.

209
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,199
Speaker 1: They knew maybe there was going to be some retribution

210
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,280
Speaker 1: if they came forward. That's why I'm stunned about the

211
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,040
Speaker 1: sixteen year old. What a hero in this whole thing. Absolutely,

212
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,920
Speaker 1: and I hope they're telling her that every minute. I

213
00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:00,320
Speaker 1: hope her biological father and his family are supporting her

214
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,800
Speaker 1: and bragging on her because she did something. There's a

215
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,880
Speaker 1: whole lot of grown people in that town that hadn't

216
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 1: done And I'm going to tell you everybody that was

217
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:14,160
Speaker 1: involved in this conspiracy all of February, all of March,

218
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,400
Speaker 1: we're now into April fifteenth, and not one of them

219
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 1: stopped it. Not one of them said, y'all, we're out

220
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,679
Speaker 1: of bounds here. You know, it was fine last night.

221
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,800
Speaker 1: We were all drinking and mad, and yes, we want

222
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,240
Speaker 1: you to have the children, but we can't kill that woman.

223
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,160
Speaker 1: And we certainly can't kill a second one that had

224
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,680
Speaker 1: nothing to do with any of the fights that the

225
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 1: family's been having. She's not even a family member, she

226
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:42,160
Speaker 1: don't even live in Oklahoma. But not one of those

227
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,640
Speaker 1: people stopped it. In my opinion, Now, if you're going

228
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,600
Speaker 1: to have the death penalty, this is the kind of

229
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:50,720
Speaker 1: case you use it for.

230
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,880
Speaker 2: And to take another level, se double. I mean, my

231
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,600
Speaker 2: heart is racing fast just thinking about being in her shoes.

232
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 2: And c W asked about Kelly. Jillian. Kelly, the pastor's wife,

233
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,080
Speaker 2: asked her mom, it sounds like and asked why she

234
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,600
Speaker 2: had to die, and she was told by Cora that

235
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,079
Speaker 2: she wasn't innocent either, and she had supported Butler. C

236
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,000
Speaker 2: W asked Cora if their bodies were put in a well,

237
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,400
Speaker 2: and Cora replied something like that, you're sixteen. What were

238
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,840
Speaker 2: you doing at sixteen? I know I wasn't having these

239
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:27,880
Speaker 2: kinds of conversations.

240
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,240
Speaker 1: I was trying to find Walt McCollum wherever he was.

241
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,680
Speaker 1: Are you kidding? I mean, I mean I had nothing

242
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,400
Speaker 1: like this to deal with. Are you joking? It was

243
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,240
Speaker 1: when is Walt going to show up in his cutlass?

244
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,800
Speaker 1: And what times a football game? And what's everybody wearing?

245
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,640
Speaker 1: That was it? This sixteen year old has more than

246
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 1: likely been exposed to a whole lot, heard a whole lot.

247
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how they got to her, if she

248
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 1: told her dad and her dad called the police, or

249
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,080
Speaker 1: if she called law enforcement. I don't no, But again,

250
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,320
Speaker 1: she's the hero in this thing to.

251
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:09,560
Speaker 2: Me, and further to the devious potential that is in

252
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,440
Speaker 2: the SAFFA, David, when you and I were talking, the

253
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:17,800
Speaker 2: court had approved four people to be supervisors of these

254
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,840
Speaker 2: child custody visitations, and Jill and Kelly's on the list.

255
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,760
Speaker 2: She was the last person on the list, and there

256
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 2: was another person that was the favorite, Cheryl Brune. And

257
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,440
Speaker 2: we want to hear from her at some point and

258
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,440
Speaker 2: see what she has to say. But this court document

259
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,160
Speaker 2: says that Tiffany Adams had told her to take a

260
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,640
Speaker 2: few weeks off. Wow, go ahead and take a few

261
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,560
Speaker 2: weeks off. You're not needed. And Cheryl Brune has since

262
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:48,000
Speaker 2: been interviewed apparently and has said that she was available.

263
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,200
Speaker 2: So if your name is on that list, if you're

264
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 2: Cheryl Brune or the other two women of the four

265
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,880
Speaker 2: could have been, you could have been you do we know?

266
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,720
Speaker 2: So who had the children during the actual murders. It

267
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,840
Speaker 2: says here that on so this happened, the incident happens

268
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 2: on Saturday. Adams told the OSBI that on Friday night,

269
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 2: March twenty ninth, twenty twenty four, Rickman and Butler's children

270
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 2: stayed the night with Barrett and Lacey Cook. Adam said

271
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,480
Speaker 2: she planned to pick them up that morning before visitation.

272
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,680
Speaker 2: Adam said she called Butler at nine hundred hours to

273
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 2: confirm the meeting, and Butler told Adams something came up

274
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,520
Speaker 2: and she was not going to make it. That's Adam's

275
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,600
Speaker 2: talking to the police. So Butler's phone records confirmed the

276
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,880
Speaker 2: call occurred. However, the time of the call. At the

277
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,840
Speaker 2: time of the call, Butler was in Hugoton, Kansas, in

278
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,160
Speaker 2: the process of picking Kelly up to go meet Adams.

279
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 2: So it sounds and it says Adams picked the children

280
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 2: up before twelve o'clock from the Cook's residence, so whatever

281
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 2: the time. However, the time shakes out. They were at

282
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 2: a couple's house named Barrett and Lacey Cook.

283
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,160
Speaker 1: Okay, so they had the children placed, they had their

284
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 1: favorite go between out of the way. She had the

285
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 1: alibi for her son because he was in rehab. So

286
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 1: they thought they had planned this whole thing out so beautifully,

287
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,960
Speaker 1: and they didn't think the babysitter was going to talk

288
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,119
Speaker 1: to the other folks, much less the other people on

289
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,640
Speaker 1: the list that you know, could do the exchange. They

290
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,439
Speaker 1: thought they did this really well. The problem is the

291
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,080
Speaker 1: very first time you and I talked off the record,

292
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,479
Speaker 1: it was just you and I on the phone. It

293
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,960
Speaker 1: was a short walk to look at Grandma. In my opinion,

294
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,720
Speaker 1: even as soon as I heard it, and you and

295
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,359
Speaker 1: I were saying, look, you go from a town of

296
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred people to a town of two hundred and

297
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,159
Speaker 1: sixty eight people, Your suspect poll is going to be tiny.

298
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,639
Speaker 1: And then you start thinking how many people would know

299
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,159
Speaker 1: about the exchange? Well, Grandma would know, the mama would know,

300
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,680
Speaker 1: the court appointed person would know, and then maybe a

301
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,639
Speaker 1: by logical dad, maybe you know the boyfriend. I mean,

302
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,240
Speaker 1: you're talking about less than six people that would have

303
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 1: known this. And then when you told me where the

304
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,439
Speaker 1: car was and you described it so beautifully, I'm like,

305
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,200
Speaker 1: that's more than one person. That's more than one person

306
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,640
Speaker 1: that pulled that off. There's no way if these folks

307
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,800
Speaker 1: are at the gas station or your bum rushing two people,

308
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,400
Speaker 1: you're not going to drive that car somewhere different. You're

309
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:27,119
Speaker 1: not going to do it.

310
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,000
Speaker 2: And what do you think, Cheryl, in all of your

311
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 2: years of expertise of doing this, like, so they do it.

312
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,560
Speaker 2: They and then we'll get to where, you know, we

313
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,520
Speaker 2: don't have the exact location of where these women are believed.

314
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,439
Speaker 2: You know, it hasn't been confirmed, and it might be

315
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 2: confirmed here any second, but they carry on with their lives.

316
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,120
Speaker 2: Did they go, you know, did Tiffany go and get

317
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,880
Speaker 2: the children? I want to read you from Cole Twombly's

318
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,399
Speaker 2: Facebook page three days ago, a big thank you for

319
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 2: all the one full birthday wishes. Got to dance in

320
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 2: the front yard with a lovely and gracious Core Twombly,

321
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 2: have cake and share the evening with our new daughter

322
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 2: in love.

323
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:14,879
Speaker 1: Okay, here's my opinion. The mother of your grandchildren is missing.

324
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 1: The best thing that's going to come from it is

325
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:23,359
Speaker 1: she's run off with somebody, which means she has abandoned

326
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,359
Speaker 1: her own children. And you're worried about your birthday dancing

327
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,679
Speaker 1: with anybody. The worst thing that's going to happen is

328
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: somebody kidnapped her, and we know the ending if it

329
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 1: had turned out to be a truck or a transient person. Right,

330
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,919
Speaker 1: they're not going to keep her not alive. So to me,

331
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 1: his birthday even crossing his mind is suspect.

332
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:49,479
Speaker 2: Well or is it an alibi?

333
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 1: You know?

334
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 2: Just to everything's fine. I was I was having a

335
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 2: birthday and I wasn't involved.

336
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, that's what he's trying to portray. But I'm

337
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 1: saying the reality. I just met your precious puppy, Bailey.

338
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 1: If something Bailey ran off, y'all couldn't find Bailey. Are

339
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 1: you gonna post about your birthday? So I'm just telling you,

340
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 1: people give themselves away. Just like when Grandma as mad

341
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 1: as she has been for nine years about this girl.

342
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,680
Speaker 1: She's no good. She's no good for my son, she's

343
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,680
Speaker 1: no good for the grandchildren. I am better for those

344
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 1: grandchildren than their own mama. You know, she says things

345
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 1: like just imagine. You know, she don't keep house, she

346
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 1: don't cook for them, she don't take them to school

347
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,159
Speaker 1: long time. You know, she's critical, right, So within five

348
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 1: minutes of her not meeting her to pick those children up,

349
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: she should have been on the phone with the court

350
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 1: losing her mind. I told y'all she wasn't no good,

351
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,120
Speaker 1: she's sorry, she's trash. She didn't even come get these

352
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 1: children on this baby's birthday. Remember it was one of

353
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 1: the children's birthday. So when she didn't call complaining, and

354
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,919
Speaker 1: she didn't text everybody, especially the victim, and she didn't

355
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: call the go between, y'all are both sorry y'all are

356
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: both good for nothing. This baby's sitting here crying, not

357
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 1: celebrating her birthday. That didn't happen, Laura, she gave herself away.

358
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 1: Let's talk about law enforcement for a minute. OSBI, the FBI,

359
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 1: the Oklahoma State Patrol, multiple sheriffs departments, the KBI as well.

360
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 1: Oh yes, they were involved as well. Thank you. They

361
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: did a magnificent job because when you and I were

362
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: at the Hamptons, you showed me the video of the

363
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:51,199
Speaker 1: tanks and everybody rolling toward Grandma's house. They knew that

364
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: could have been a potential hostage situation that could have

365
00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 1: ended really badly for everybody, could have been a devastating event.

366
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: The fact that they would follow these things privately, nobody

367
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 1: knew what happened, nobody knew anything was going down until

368
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 1: it was in action. I think they saved a bunch

369
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: of lives by doing it that way.

370
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 2: I agree. I think that you know, for all the

371
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 2: frustrating days and hours of us, the members of the

372
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 2: media calling and saying, do you have any updates? Can

373
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 2: you tell us anything, can you tell us what you're searching,

374
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 2: And the answer was always, we're investigating. We will let

375
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 2: you know when we have something over and over and

376
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: over again, and then you know the anchors that were,

377
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 2: you know, every news anchor and reporters, you know, asking

378
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 2: why don't we hear more, and the people in the

379
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 2: town just say, we just want something, tell us what's

380
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: going on. They can't, and time and time again it's

381
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 2: proven why and our team And a huge hat tip

382
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: I want to give to my colleagues Nancy lou and

383
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: Dana Levitt who were on the ground along with their

384
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 2: photographer Nate, who were getting ready to do a live

385
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 2: shot and saw the zoom zoom zoom, you know, going

386
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: down the street and all those cars and they got

387
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 2: in and they they followed them and they got really

388
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 2: close and we have the video of it. So now

389
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 2: the world has seen how this all played out. And

390
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 2: they had there were law enforcement officers on the road

391
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: that had guns drawn and said, you guys need to

392
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 2: get back now, and they did, of course, but that's

393
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 2: how close we they came. Because it was all unfolding.

394
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 2: There was no there's no press release saying we're about

395
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 2: to do a raid. You know, stand on the side

396
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: of the street so you can watch it. It was

397
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: just it was luck that day for them, and they

398
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 2: did a fantastic job of staying safe bringing the story

399
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 2: and I just can't say enough about them.

400
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 1: Now that video. I was, of course just knocked out

401
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: by it because I thought, Okay, it's happening, and it

402
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 1: is a grandma and it looks like if she has

403
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 1: the children, they are taking every single in the world.

404
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 1: So this thing does not turn into a hostage situation

405
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,959
Speaker 1: where somebody's gonna take everybody out. So again, nobody's going

406
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: to have them if I can't have them kind of thing.

407
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: But I want everybody to know, go follow Lara Ingle.

408
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: She's at Laura Ingle on x and she's Laura Ingle

409
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 1: TV on Instagram. All the videos are there, and she

410
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: has been boots on the ground and she has the

411
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 1: videos from her colleagues and it's I mean, I think

412
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: it's the best reporting on this thing I've seen. I'm

413
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: just telling you, and you have been so fantastic keeping

414
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: us up to date of you know, what all is

415
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: transpired since they were reported missing, and with this new development,

416
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: I just I'm going to give you the final word

417
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: because again I think you said something so incredible when

418
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: we were in the Hamptons that I just want you

419
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: to repeat it for everybody to hear.

420
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: The most heartbreaking thing of all of this, of course,

421
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 2: are the children that are left without their mothers. And

422
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 2: while this has been going on for the last several weeks,

423
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: you know, you wonder how much did they know. Two

424
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 2: of them were really young, the other ones were older.

425
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: And you know, for Jillian's family, they were getting ready

426
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 2: to move and start a new life, and the pastor

427
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: had just got a new job and they were packing up,

428
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 2: and locals told me that they were halfway already moved

429
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 2: out of the state. So I don't know how you

430
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 2: know what the final move date was going to be

431
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: for the Kellys, but you just, you know, you just

432
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 2: keep thinking about both women. But just that happenstance that

433
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: Gillian took the ride that day. But on this day,

434
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 2: there are six children without their mothers who are living

435
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: on the planet. And now with the long list of

436
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 2: people not only arrested but also implication in this warrant,

437
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: we know that there are more children, especially the hero

438
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: of the story, c W who has told law enforcement

439
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 2: what she overheard a bunch of adults talk about and

440
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 2: what she witnessed. And she has a brother, so you

441
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: know now we're up to eight and probably more, but

442
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 2: it's the children who ended up suffering and we'll suffer now.

443
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is Zone seven